Town Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the August 11th, 2026 Portsmouth Town Council meeting.

In the event of an emergency, if you would please all exit orderly, either through the door you just came in, the door behind your left shoulder, or the door behind Mr. Reese, and we'll all head over to the school department building and wait for further instructions from our fine first responders here in Portsmouth. If you would now all please join me, if you're able, for a pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence for our men and women in harm's way.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States

Thank you, everyone. Prior to the meeting this evening, we had an update on some legal matters. There were no votes taken on any of the subjects. It was just updates as we go. There is no public comment this evening. Oh, roll call. Sorry. Roll call.

I think I was ready.

Jen usually yells at me earlier than that.

Mr. Gleason?

Here.

Ms. Blank? Here. Ms. McDowell? Here. Ms. Patton? Here. Mr. Payero?

Here.

Mr. Reese?

Here.

Mr. Hamilton?

I am here. Thank you, Mandy. There are no requests for public comment this evening, so we're going to move on to our consent agenda. Do I have a motion to approve as presented? So moved. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Next, we'll be sitting as a Board of Licensed Commissioners. We just have one license, Peddler's License for a Mobile Food Establishment. A new one for Rolitos Sandwiches, LLC. 118 Hybrid Drive, Apartment 13, Cranston. Motion to approve. Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. I need a motion to adjourn for the Board of License. So moved. Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. And we have our minutes. Any corrections or additions to the minutes of 7-27-26?

Motion to approve the 727, 26 minutes. Second. All those in favor?

Aye. Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Mr. Raynor, good evening, sir. Your town administrator's report. Tax vouchers? Tax vouchers. Geez. All right, I'm going home. Approval of tax vouchers, 2026-011-011. Motion to approve.

Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes seven to zero. All right, Mr. Rainer, now you're up.

All right. Good evening, Mr. President, town council, ladies and gentlemen. With regard to curbside and transfer station, as of this morning, there are 312 households on Prudence Island signed up for the Prudence Island transfer station. There are 1,894 households signed up for the Hedley Street transfer station, and there are 3,112 households signed up for the curbside program. The police department has partnered with the Portsmouth Prevention Coalition on what they're calling a dry bag initiative for recreational boaters this summer. They've been distributing waterproof bags that include boating safety information, social host law information applicable to underage drinking and illegal drug use, water, snacks, a floating key chain, safety whistle, and a sober skipper pledge bracelet. The goal is simply to promote safe and sober boating and to help keep our waterways safe this summer. The 12th Annual Police Department Awards and Promotion Ceremony will be held on Wednesday, September 23rd at 6 p.m. at the Glenn Manor House. That's Wednesday, September 23rd, 6 p.m. at the Glenn Manor House. This is the Police Department's annual event recognizing promotions and accomplishments of our officers over the last year. Council members will all be receiving e-vites with additional information in the coming weeks. Just a reminder that the fire department's annual promotion and swearing-in ceremony will be held tomorrow at 6 p.m. at the Green Valley Country Club. So hopefully you RSVP'd. In addition to the promotions and swearing-in, the department will be recognizing several members, both individually and as groups, for their professionalism during emergency responses over the past year. And then lastly, just another reminder that our America 250 community event at Glen Park is coming up on Saturday, August 22nd. That'll be in Glen Park from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. So that's Saturday, August 22nd, 11 to 5. The rec department has put together an afternoon of live music, children's entertainment, food trucks, family activities, which should be a good community event. We hope to see you there. That concludes my report, Mr. President.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Any questions for Mr. Mayor? Ms. McAuliffe?

Yeah, I just have a question regarding, is there any problem with the email, our town email? I keep getting kicked off, and then I have to go into Duo. Is it townwide?

If you've been off it for a length of time, then it will time out. Never there. We'll have somebody take a look at it.

Thanks.

It does it to me about every six to eight weeks.

Yeah, why?

Because it wants to verify that you're a real human being. It's dual verification, that's all.

Does it?

Yeah.

Because sometimes twice a week.

Don't get it that much. Odd.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Rainer. Appreciate that. Next up, we have resignations and appointments. We have a reappointment for Mr. Cox to the Design Review Board.

Motion to reappoint Mr. Philip Cox to the Design Review Board.

Second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Next up, Old Business. We're going to review Stage 2 that has been submitted to RIDE and has been approved for potential projects in the school system. I have three names. I'm going to go with Dr. Viveris first. Any technical questions will go to Mr. Phil.

Yep.

All right.

Both coming up with me anyway. So good evening members of the town council and Portsmouth community.

Liz, can you just pull that right over to you so everybody can hear you? Thank you.

Is that good? All right. So I'll start over. Good evening members of the town council and the Portsmouth community. Based on feedback from the last town council meeting, Mr. Raynor asked the district to provide additional details regarding the school department's right approved five-year capital plan, commonly referred to as our stage two approval. An approved Stage 2 application is critical because it unlocks state housing aid reimbursement of at least 35% for eligible capital projects. Our Stage 2 application was approved by the Council on Elementary and Secondary Education this past May following a comprehensive process with RIDE that took more than a year to complete. The approved plan addresses essential warm, safe, and dry facility needs, along with important improvements to support student learning. Tonight, our goal is to review each of the projects by school and the associated costs. These estimates were developed by professional cost estimators and reviewed through RIDE's school building authority process. In November, if voters approve the bond, the Town Council will retain authority over the timing and amount of borrowing, not to exceed $41 million. Our commitment is to complete these necessary projects in a fiscally responsible manner while being good stewards of taxpayer dollars and investing in our students in our schools. This commitment was proven during our last bond, which was completed on time and on budget. I'm joined this evening by Phil Conte, president of Studio Jade Architects and Engineers, who's going to present the approved scope of the work and the project details. Following Phil, District Finance Director Chris DiIorio will be reviewing the housing aid reimbursement process and next steps. Also with us this evening, we have Sam Bradner, managing partner from the Peregrine Group. With that, I'll turn it over to Phil.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone. If we could advance to the next slide. Great. This is the approved Ride Stage 1 with the MOA for the schools and the $1 amount that would be eligible for reimbursement. And I think one thing I want to say before I start is I had the privilege of working in Portsmouth starting back in 2010. And I have done a number of stage one and stage twos for you, as well as a number of projects. And in our 20 years in Rhode Island, I can tell you that Portsmouth is probably one of the tighter, most well-run communities regarding school projects. that we've come across. Over the 15 years, you have smartly advanced your stewardship of all your facilities incrementally over time. And it's something that I have firsthand knowledge of that you should be very proud of, because not every community can do this, and it should be done. That's why Ride has instituted these mandates to making sure you continually improve your buildings. That's why they passed that $500 billion bond, because schools were not doing it. But I can tell you, you have, and I expect you will continue to, And I'll start by commenting on why someone may say, oh, what are we doing at Hathaway and Melville? They were large components of your previous bond that were very successful that focused on HVAC improvements, which will absolutely impact teaching and learning within those schools. And I'll talk about the remaining projects left at Hathaway and Melville, but they are minor in this effort. The largest effort is the Portsmouth Middle School at over $29 million. Portsmouth Middle School is a large facility that has not received a significant amount of attention, certainly in the 15 years that I've been working with you. And if you walk through the building, it is due. It is time. Portsmouth High School has almost $9 million worth of work that focus on remaining projects that we'll talk about at the roof, at the site, and improving some of the CTE opportunities there. These amounts total about 40.4 million, which the superintendent said is eligible for reimbursement over the next five years. I'm happy to advance to the next slide, and then we can come back if there's any questions. Okay, next slide. So let's talk about the scopes of work. We'll talk about Hathaway and Melville first. Both of them are similar. It focuses on improving the HVAC system that we just put in, in terms of giving you greater control and operational efficiencies. So we think some dollars, approximately $200,000 for each school, should be spent on building control systems. will allow the district to operate it as efficiently as possible it does operate efficiently this would allow you to maximize that control and at both schools there's anywhere between six to nine hundred thousand in some site improvements that should be addressed whether it's legacy storm water management issues that could help improve if the site during winter conditions, whether it is degrading asphalt or paving. We want to create a site that is safe for vehicles and pedestrians. The middle school has three large scopes of work. The first is the eighth grade wing renovation and addition. at about 10 million. Site work to support that addition and improve vehicular and pedestrian traffic, about 2.6 million. And then the roof at approximately 10.6 million. Now, I'm only giving you the construction costs. Added to that are soft costs and any other costs that are totaled herein. But I want to talk about the eighth grade wing renovation and addition. The middle school is, as I said, a dated facility. it does not necessarily have the facilities to support 21st century teaching and learning. And we know that that is absolutely critical at the middle school level where students become disengaged. That is an opportunity to make sure you are preparing them for high school, as well as giving your staff the greatest facilities to challenge them and work with them. The Reason to focus on the eighth grade is to create a wing within the middle school. If you have been in there, you could imagine a five, six, seven, eight wing. Each one of those wings are similar. The eighth grade wing. in order to create an environment that you can continue to build upon this over the next decade or so, would require a minor four classroom addition onto that wing. We can improve that entire wing and that would become the model of the middle school. And then as time advances, you could continue that throughout the school as you need to. Site work is pretty self-explanatory to support that. And then there's the roof. So we did have catastrophic failures at the high school recently. Those were addressed. The middle school roof is in significant need of replacement. Now that could say, oh, that's a lot of money. Well, this is a big school that is one story. So you have a large surface area. There's a couple reasons why this roof assembly comes at a slight premium. It is closer to grade, so we want to make sure it's vandal resistant. It is close to waterways. We have dropping shells onto the roof. So having a 40-year roof on that middle school is absolutely appropriate. It's a building that you're going to retain for the next several decades. The high school has a series of smaller projects. The first one and the last one are restroom renovations. We have been systematically working on restrooms over the last several years. These are the remaining two restrooms, second floor area B and G, that are in need of replacement and renovation. Then we have some CTE program spaces that should be refreshed. There is a large push in the district for curriculum to advance in CTE pathways. It would be appropriate to address this one in particular, which is the early childhood development rooms that are within the high school. There is one remaining roof section of the high school that needs to be replaced that is coming due. Then we have site work and lighting, and you could say, oh, we just put in that road last year. Absolutely. That was great. But you have, again, a large site, a lot of paving at the high school. A lot of it is deteriorated and extending the lighting that we have along the Memorial Drive in front of the school as it leads to the field house. would be important from a site safety standpoint. Next is HVAC and controls. There is some legacy equipment that should be replaced. It has not failed yet, but within the next five to seven years, you may find yourself scrambling in an emergency to replace a unit that may serve the music rooms, for example. And lastly was the science lab renovations. If there is going to be this push in STEM and the sciences, your science labs are dated. They were constructed and designed for a time when science was taught differently. Now, the goal would be to make them much more flexible so that you could introduce STEAM so that you could start mixing in other areas of learning like bioscience and other educational pathways that need a more flexible room as opposed to the rigid science labs that you have in place. So all of that work with the hard cost and the soft cost total that $40.4 million, which again simply means these are projects that Ride has deemed eligible for reimbursement over the next five years at a 35% rate with an unwritten expectation that half of that work is done over five years. So I'm happy to answer any questions before I turn it over to Chris about the project scope.

Just specifically, that's a ride expectation that half get done.

Yes.

And the issue we got into with the high school roof was that we did not put this into the five-year capital, so we didn't get that entire reimbursement. So by putting these in here, we're eligible for them. It doesn't mean we're going to do them all. but we're at least eligible for that reimbursement if we decide that we have some extra money or somebody gives us a grant, who knows, that we can go out and do that and still get debt reimbursement. Correct.

Yeah, I did have a question. Are we increasing the capacity of the middle school by adding that new wing?

So during the RIDE Stage 2 process, we were working with RIDE to make sure that the reason for building this addition was warranted and it is because the middle school as designed has spaces that are not in a new middle school guideline and regulation what we want to make sure we have are right-sized classrooms for the enrollment that we remove the interior classrooms that Bride does not want students and teachers in and reprogram those spaces for support spaces, making sure that every classroom, that there's equity within the entire school. I do not. We also looked at the demographics. There is not a significant increase in demographics over the next five years in Portsmouth.

You don't see an extra capacity in there at all?

Capacity, yes, but is there enrollment increase? No, there's not.

Because that's been decreasing, right? Correct.

Correct.

And I did have one question on the roof replacement. I mean, it is like five to six times the cost. Are there other things that are being incorporated in the roof in addition to just the roofing material? I mean, it's not five or six times bigger, I wouldn't think, than the high school. I mean, are you putting in skylights or is there more insulation going in or is it a construction or something?

Yeah, there's absolutely more insulation that's going in. Right now, there's probably only two inches of insulation on there. When we are done, you'll have at a minimum six and some areas more because we're going to be meeting the current energy codes. This also addresses...

I was wondering because there's got to be some reason other than just the roofing material. So there is reconstruction as you go along?

Absolutely. As well as the perimeter soffit and metal material. All of that changes as we start building up the roof. So it's not simply just you taking off an old roof membrane and putting a new roof membrane on. This is a significant project that is intended to last well over 30 years.

And the school has that much life. Everybody agrees. The school has that much life left in it. Do you agree with that?

If you are strategic like you have been, I do not know the appetite for Portsmouth if we were to say we're going to build a new middle school at several hundred million dollars.

I was going to say, go million.

Yeah. And keeping in mind, you have a facility that is... includes certain spaces that you would never have if you were trying to build new, like the auditorium and the large gym, et cetera. So like I said, over 15 years, we've been in Portsmouth. Maybe 10 years ago, we replaced all the electrical panels in there. So you have strategically kept improving all your buildings, whether you know it or not, you have been investing and been good stewards. They're just larger projects that are coming before you now, and it is time to plan for them. And that's why we wanted to make sure they were included so they were eligible for reimbursement.

And will the renovations on 5, 6, and 7, are you making, are they being designed so they'll dovetail into what you're putting in now? I mean, do they all, will they all work? I mean, as far as...

Absolutely. That's a great point. Last year, we replaced the major central restrooms in the middle school at several million dollars. Those restrooms were strategically located to serve five, six, seven, and eight now and into the future. It's all about being smart when we are planning and being strategic. And again, I can't say this enough. I get to work in a lot of communities in Rhode Island, and not all of them are as diligent as you all are.

Thank you.

Phil, can you just, for the benefit of everybody here, explain as quickly as you can exactly what that eighth grade wing looks like, going from the learning centers to eight individual classrooms plus two science labs so that there'll be a teacher per classroom rather than four in one learning center. And when I have to go use the restrooms, I don't have to walk through Mr. Piero's learning classroom and interrupt him.

Oh, absolutely. And I apologize. I don't have a plan, but if you were walking in the middle school, you do have to go from one classroom to get to the next classroom, which is just terrible. So that will not be the case here, right? You will, it will be what you would expect a Corridor with nice new restrooms on this side and a series of classrooms over on this side that are appropriately sized that have small group meeting rooms for paras to pull students out for some extra support. There's a lot of eyes on the street so everybody sees what's happening in the corridor as necessary. Science labs that are grouped together, world language that are grouped together so that when Jay, the principal, is organizing his teams, It's it's correct. It's strategic. There is no, you know, trying to fit people in to spaces that they should not be teaching and learning in.

If the project gets approved, it would be. More than likely that you'll start with the roof project before you do the eighth grade wing, correct? And if I recall, Mr. Reese mentioned skylights. Wasn't there some skylights in that area? Sure, sure. Would those be taken care of in the initial roof?

They absolutely can be. And there is a level of design that we haven't even touched because these projects have not been designed. approved by the community in terms of a bond and then by the town council in terms of the bond funding. So there is many more, much more development that's going to happen so we can address these strategic questions. But like I said, we would be... We just do smartly. We need to be wise. If we're going to replace the roof project, then we will want to make sure that if this is going to advance, that we have strategically planned for where these skylights are. I don't want to dismiss these technicalities, but that's part of the design process that evolves over the next year.

I have another question. Yes, sir. At some point, to help the people that are going to be paying for this, do you anticipate having, I don't know, an artist's conception of what you're going to be in a design layout so people can actually see floor plans, things like that, so they can get a concept of what it was like? Because, Keith, you went to school there. You know what it's like to walk through the classrooms. I do. So people can see now that it's being changed and remedied. and what your long-term goal is. They think that would help people to understand this.

Absolutely. We have prepared them some already. So those are available, and we would just continually improve and enhance them. We want everyone to be excited about these projects. It's very impactful.

Would they be put on display like in the lobby here or something? Absolutely. I mean, you can do something like that so the average person can get in and see them. Yes. All right. Thanks.

So I am planning, hopefully after tonight's meeting, I'm planning to start sharing information with the community. I am going to have several opportunities for community members for the school to be open after hours for community members to visit. Because I think that, Mr. Reese, you had a good question about the capacity. And actually, Dr. Masterson, the principal of middle school, would like to also work on answering that. But I think that when you consider the addition, you have to consider the fact that each classroom right now, we're housing two classrooms. So those inner classrooms that have absolutely no natural sunlight in them. And then, like we had said, the classroom that does have sunlight doesn't actually have a door that exits into the hallway. They either have to go into the classroom on the side of them or the classroom in front of them. So we're increasing that.

Giving me claustrophobia. Just listen.

I think Mrs. McDowell actually went for a tour with me and she saw students in the classrooms and, you know, class in action. And it is certainly I'd welcome the opportunity to walk through it in session with any of the council members. I just ask that it be just one at a time. But. Certainly we'll have it open to the public as well. We'll have a few of those dates, but we're ready with some video footage. We have some infographs to share. I've got some presentations on the designs. We'll be sending out all that information, but I wanted to be respectful of being able to meet with the council today.

And just to add to what Dr. Viveros was speaking about, there is regulations required for all classrooms to have natural light for the reimbursement. We were actually challenged by Ride on this application to try and use existing square footage and actually increase the cost by 25%, close to $9 million. So Phil and I had built a separate plan that cost more money. So this is actually more affordable for us to be able to increase the classroom's capacity.

And Jay, just for the record, can you just say who you are so everybody at home knows who you are?

Jay Masterson, Principal, Portsmouth Middle School.

Proud to be here.

Thank you, sir.

Chris, you want to go through some of the numbers, sir?

Yes, I certainly do. Okay, so as far, if we can go to the next slide, please.

Thank you.

So from a housing aid perspective, very important, once a district completes the necessity of school construction process and receives Board of Education approval, all capital projects included in the Stage 2 application are now eligible for housing aid. Like state education aid, housing aid share ratios are determined by comparing the wealth per student by community to the wealth per student statewide. State law sets the minimum share ratio for housing aid at 35%, which is the percent that Portsmouth receives. In the past, there were temporary bonuses, which we took advantage of to boost our housing aid, related to the last bond from 35% to 45%. Those temporary bonuses have expired and are not available today. Upon approval of our Stage 2 application, the district entered into a memorandum of agreement with RIDE that provides for the 35% reimbursement on the $40,407,043 of total eligible project costs. once individual projects are completed they become eligible for housing aid reimbursement in the subsequent year projects financed with capital reserve funds which we've done in the past are reimbursed over one to three years depending on the size of the project projects financed with bonds are reimbursed over the term of the bond and it's very important to note that only bonds issued through ryback are eligible to receive reimbursement for interest payments in addition to principal payments. Lastly, I wanted to mention that housing aid PAYGO reimbursements, which we've received in the past and allowed for immediate reimbursement of certain costs, are no longer available. Next slide, please. So next steps should the bond vote be successful. The town council would then have legal authority to issue school bonds up to $41 million but is not required to issue any bonds. The town council would retain complete discretion over whether to actually issue the debt, how much of it to issue, and when to issue. I think it's safe to say that our first priority, as mentioned earlier, would definitely be the middle school roof replacement project due to its very poor condition. We have a very ambitious goal to replace that starting next year. To do that, we would have to have funding available by late winter, early spring, while also completing all architectural and engineering work, obtaining three different ride review approvals, and successfully bidding the project. As I said, it's very ambitious. Finally, as Phil said, there is an expectation. Thank you. from RIDE that at least 50% of the approved projects will be done within the five-year period, which for us ends on June 30th, 2031. Thank you.

And that 50%, Chris, doesn't have to be a bonding process. If there is extra cash available or capital money that has been returned due to other projects that you have, you could utilize that and still get that 35%. Correct. Thank you, sir.

I just have a quick question. When will we get the financials for the $41 million bond?

We're not having a $41 million bond. It's just a request to bond up to.

Well, what are we asking the citizens on the ballot?

To approve not spending up to more than $41 million.

Well, then that's what our liability would be, wouldn't it?

No. Only if we take out bonds to do projects.

Okay. All right. Well, in that case, we still need the financials on what we think we're going to need, because we have to see how this will fit into the budget.

I can tell you, $41 million would not fit into the budget.

No, it's not going to fit into the budget.

I can tell you that right now.

You talk about being over the cap. We're going to have to go and...

I can tell you that. And I know Chris. And I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that to the taxpayers.

Yeah. But we'll need the financials on that when you can. Okay.

Ms. McDowell.

Yep.

Thank you.

I'll wrap it up and then we'll answer questions. Next slide, please. Excellent. So thank you, Phil and Chris, for laying out those details. So members of the Town Council, while neighboring communities like Middletown, Newport, Bristol-Warren, along with academically comparable communities like East Greenwich and Barrington, are all building brand new buildings. We understand that that isn't the right solution for Portsmouth. Instead, our approach is to prioritize the most impactful projects and to be fiscally responsible. taking excellent care of the facilities that we have, enhancing and adding high-impact learning spaces, protecting taxpayer dollars, and doing that in a smart, necessary way to ensure that we're meeting the standards that we hold for our students. Our goal is to sustain the academic excellence that Portsmouth is proud of, and it starts by ensuring that our students and our staff have the facilities to meet today's educational needs. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Dr. Morris. Ms. McDowell.

Sure. Thank you for the presentation. And I just want to say that I've been involved in schools and Portsmouth, I feel Portsmouth school system does a great job at being great stewards of our money and our students. So I thank you for that. I put part A on this agenda earlier Only because I believe there was some confusion and misunderstanding about the process of the school bond journey. I am in no way opposed to a school bond project. I was just certainly under the impression that the council in collaboration with the school would be determining which proposed projects would be going forward in the school bond referendum. Would it be all of them? Would it be one? Would it be three? Et cetera. That's the impression I was under and I'm told that other people were under that impression as well. And I think you referred to the tour that I went with you on with the middle school. And I think if you can recall, I said definitely I could support this after going through it. It was certainly it will certainly improve the learning environment, the new project. On April 13th, we were asked a memorialization of the project, which I had never heard before, but was brought before the council for a vote. The council was told by Mr. Raynor and President Hamilton that this was to keep the project moving, not committing to a bond sum or any particular project presented. in fact i think mr raynor said um not i think he said in the presentation on the 13th you will ultimately speaking to us approve the amount that goes before the voters Mr. Hamilton also said that this only lays the cards on the table as what we might potentially do, and then we can peel it back from there, or the school department could pare it down if they need to, and then any potential projects would go forward to the voters in September for a vote. And then a citizen got up and asked the question, what point will be... will be committing to this bond. And Mr. Hamilton said at the end of June, early July, either the last meeting in June or the first meeting in July or second meeting in July. We have to have it to the canvassing in the state by August 1st. So these things, I mean, this is what we were under the impression of, but I don't think that was a case. In fact, I've learned that House Bill 8488, which I believe was the bond, was introduced on April 29th, just 16 days after these exchanges, where it was promised that it would come back to us before going to the state. you know, we weren't given the opportunity to pare down or work with the school to talk about. I mean, I definitely knew I was in favor of the middle school and quite possibly the other projects, but I thought there was going to be another conversation regarding that, given the information that we received. So, given the opportunity, we weren't given the last bite, I guess, of the apple. And unbeknownst to this Council unbeknownst to the citizens, maybe even unbeknownst to the canvassing authority, because it was mentioned at the July 14 canvassing meeting that our Senator was working on the bond question at the state level, so I just I just think it's important that we all understand. which I didn't, and I think other people not only here but in the community didn't understand that that was going to go forward without us having another discussion, talk, going back and forth about that. So I just wanted to bring that to the forefront.

So I'll speak for myself. So my thought process was that we would be having this meeting sometime in June or July to explain what the projects are. Again, there is still no bonded amount. The language that was sent and voted on in the resolution that this council passed. stated that we would go out to bonds not to exceed $41 million. The pairing down happens after, if the voters approve that measure, we then would start pairing it down, bringing back projects, as Chris mentioned, potentially just the roof for next year. Maybe we just do the roof now, and in three or four years, we come out with another project. That's when it comes back to the council, and this council does have that final authority. no matter how we want to parse the words that I may have spoken or Mr. Rainer may have spoken or anybody else spoke, the bond question before the voters is allowing the town council to not exceed $41 million in borrowing to do any one of these 20 projects, give or take. In reality, we could do the $10.9 million for the roof and wait for three years to do the rest of the projects or the eighth grade project. So in reality, we might only do $20 million worth of bonds. But until the voters say yay or nay on any type of borrowing, we don't know how much would be spent. So I apologize for any confusion that was out there. I was hoping that we would have this meeting. Building committee meetings have been canceled because of Well, it's summertime. So we're having it now. So you have an idea of what's out there?

We were ready and prepared to present. We were just waiting for the council to ask us to come to the meeting. So we apologize for that confusion. Thanks.

You don't have a link up on the website yet that shows any of the projects?

We can have it as soon as first thing tomorrow morning. Again, I'm prepared to start. sharing this information with the community, but I wanted to be respectful of the council and this meeting.

Yeah, I mean, some of it's not sexy. It's new wires, it's lighting, but when people see- And we have renderings as well. Right, but when people see the difference of the current eighth grade wing to what it can be in the future, and then hopefully in another 10 or 15 years, we do the seventh grade, and then we work to the sixth grade, and then we work to the fifth grade. rather than all at once spending $180 to $200 million on a new middle school.

Right.

Ms. Blank.

Can you speak to just the community meeting at the middle school where you gathered input from parents?

Sure. So mid-year last year, I believe we met in January. We had We had shared it with the entire community. We had community members, parents, and we had actually a very engaging, interactive conversation about the needs of our district. And top priority across the entire community was our middle school.

So I just want to reiterate, they absolutely got input from community members of like, what are your concerns, not just leadership's concerns. So I feel like you did a very great job with that.

Any other questions from the council? Mr. Fitzmaurice, you have a question? Don't go too far, Liz.

Thank you, Mr. President. Larry Fitzmaurice, 50 Christian Court. I would like to speak to April 13th as well. During the discussion, it was clear that we were moving forward on the bond on April 13th, which is to be expected. I was pretty clear when I asked the council and I asked Mr. Hamilton to reiterate that we were going to have an opportunity as citizens and the council to review and decide the scope of this bond system, bond project. and i thought that was abundantly clear at the time mr hamilton mr rainer spoke to those issues and assured us all that that would be the case what we are here now in large part is discussing whether or not we like the project as it is there doesn't appear to be a lot of engineering room if you will design room and cost room in this thing so i want to i want to make it clear that i asked mr hamilton directly whether or not we were going to get another shot at this apple there's a very practical reason for that and that is we don't want to have a numerous follow-on conversations about this stuff we'd like to get it all done at once And we were concerned that we were not going to get an opportunity to speak. That turned out to be the case because now we're faced with a certain number and a certain plan. That's not to mean that the PCC doesn't support parts of this thing because we do. We support the renovation of the chemistry lab because that's a strong point in our school system. It draws students from outside and we lead in our hard science scores in the state. So we need to maintain that. And we're fully prepared to support that. The other one is the roof. When the roof leaks, you got to fix it. But we do see a very, very expensive roof here. We've had some explanations tonight from Jade. We'd like to hear a more detailed discussion before the council in the future about the technology. Certainly, Mr. Reese has gone into this in some detail, so I won't go into it again. But I'd like to have the opportunity to hear the cost structure because we repaired a roof on the high school when it needed it. at a much smaller amount of money on a much larger roof than we are going to spend on this one. And those are things that we will support, but we want to hear, and obviously we're going to get more insulation, and that's a good thing, but we want to hear what we're going to get for a whole lot more money on a somewhat smaller roof. So those are issues that we want to speak to as well when we get an opportunity. But right now, we have a fixed project. And I'd like to speak a little bit about the idea that when the voters vote on something, then the council comes back in and can make changes to it. I don't see these bond projects as operating that way. I'm convinced absolutely that once the voters vote on something, that's it. The council should not be changing the decision of the voters in the voting box. And it is up to the council to make sure that a good, clear understanding of this project and all of its details is available. And I don't mean just some kind of summary that we sent out telling everybody it's a grand idea. So that doesn't sit well with me. And I don't believe under any circumstances that the president of the council and the town administrator and our delegation to the state assembly have any authority to approve what goes on the ballot. That's a decision by this council. And this council still has not made that decision. And I think it is yet should be voting on it. at some point in sending the decision up to the Secretary of State. Now, I recognize that the time limit has passed. But that's not my fault, and it's not the Council's fault, as far as I can see. They were waiting for this to come up, and suddenly it wasn't there. And somebody asked, it was Mary that asked, you know, what happened? And so we are here tonight as a result. But we also need to point out that This bond is going to have a very substantial impact on our budget. If it's $41 million, it gets expended. And that's the authorization that was requested. And it is the assembly that has the authority to approve how much money we spend on debt service. And that's what they have approved. So that's the limit. The court's going to let you spend that amount at the minimum. So... 41 million, our guesstimate is that it's going to cost about $1.8 million on the budget new funding in the first year of this bond when we're starting to pay for it. Because the first three years of this bond are not going to get paid for by the support coming from RIDE, not RIDE, but from the state on debt service. Now, even at $35 million, it's still $1.5 million, and that's a heck of a lot of money to spend in our budget. And I recognize that other communities around the state have spent vastly larger amounts of money on their bonds, on their school bonds, but God help them. when the first day shows up when they have to pay the whole hog on theirs, because it's going to be a large amount of money. And I don't think that they're going to do well under those circumstances. So again, I appreciate the superintendent's approach. We have not used that approach here in our school system, where we just go for a broke and $200 million and the devil take the hindmost. that's not wise i think we all know that certainly she does and i appreciate that um that's about it thank you thank you mr mr fitzmorris mr miss morris sorry mr fitzmorris i'm really losing it tonight i just want to for the record

read part of the resolution that this council passed in order to enact the legislation that then went to canvassing to put together a bond question. Resolution memorializing the General Assembly to enact legislation authorizing the town of Portsmouth with the approval of the qualified electors to issue not to exceed $41 million general obligation bonds, notes or other evidences and indebtedness to finance the construction, additions, renovation, improvement, alteration, repair, furnishing, equipping of schools and school facilities throughout the town. Whereas the town council, the town of Portsmouth endorses and supports construction additions for renovation, improvement, alterations, repair, furnishing, equipment, schools, school facilities throughout the town and costs thereto. Whereas in order to undertake and complete the project, there would be a need to issue and or notes, bonds and or notes in the amount not to exceed $41 million. That is what this council passed. That is what was voted on by the General Assembly. And that is what is going forward to the voters. What has not been settled yet is what projects we're going to do and what the bond amounts are going to be. I can't explain that any more plainly. If the citizens of Portsmouth come around and say, we don't want you spending any more money, then we're not doing any projects. We will have to figure out a way to do a middle school roof without a bond and finance it in-house somehow. And as far as the size of the roof, I'm going to ask, I'll give you a second, Senator, but I'm going to ask Phil, what was the square footage we did at the high school and what is the square footage of the middle school roof? Roughly, what is the square? The middle school roof is a lot bigger than what we did at the high school.

Yes, much.

much and we only did a portion of the d-wing to d-wing and above the auditorium yeah and there's one section still remaining right the square footage at the middle school is i'm gonna guess i don't believe it's five or six times the size but i'm gonna at least three to four times the size of the high school roof that we did last time yes okay yeah thank you senator ujavuza

Thank you, Mr. President. I just wanted to explain that the process that you went through is not that complicated. You passed a resolution. You gave it to me. I introduced it and the state assembly passed it. And to say that somehow you were misled, I'm not exactly sure what you mean about having another bite at the apple because you passed a resolution, you gave it to me, and I got it passed for you, and it's on the ballot. And we are only in session, as you know, from January to June. And if it wasn't passed, when it passed, it would not be on our ballot, and we would most likely lose... the amount of reimbursement that Mr. DeLauro outlined, up to 35%, I believe. And if you wanted to continue to take so-called bites of the apple, without this getting on the ballot the way it was written well you had your chance to do that prior to sending me a resolution and asking me for a bill uh which passed but secondly you had to do it if you wanted it to be on the ballot to get your reimbursement so the 35 percent mr dolores said so i'm not exactly sure what it is you're you're saying needed to be done differently

I'm bringing up the process that we talked about here in this chamber was it was going to come back and more discussion was going to happen. Mr. Hamilton talked about it coming back in June before the deadline. That's all.

I understand that you have questions about the process and you certainly are welcome to have those questions. However, I just feel that I don't want the public to be misled, that there was any kind of, I don't know, misleading done about what the process was. It's very straightforward. Yeah, voted on a resolution. It came to me and it passed. Bites of apple in some kind of other process. I'm not sure what you're saying should have happened. That's all.

There are still a number of bites at the apple. Yes, but not prior to the bill passing. There is a difference between it was explained. Understood. Thank you. Take my words differently. I apologize. Sometimes misspeak. I apologize. I'm human. Sorry.

No, I don't believe that you did.

I was hoping that that meeting, that this meeting that is happening now to explain what the projects are, were going to happen in June, July. I understand, but I just- No stretch of the imagination was I thinking that that resolution that we passed, that everybody should have read and understood that's what the resolution was going to be, meant we were going to go $41 million. Yes. I said specifically we're going to be able to pare it down at some point as a council.

Understood. I'm just saying that the process was fairly straightforward.

It was different than the last one. The last process was different because, A, we were rushed because of COVID. B, we had specific projects. And C, since we didn't do... not to exceed $30 million. We didn't get the reimbursement for the roof because it was taken out of that project.

Understood. I'm just saying that the process of you guys presenting me a resolution that you all voted for is that I submit it as a bill.

So the only difference here, and the last one, is that we did a project-specific, and this one has a bunch of projects that we are going to pick and choose from, and that we may pay for cash for some, we may pay a bond for others, We're not taking out a $41 million bond.

Understood. Thank you.

Ms. Schultz, welcome back.

Welcome. Jacqueline Schultz, Registrar of Voters. I just want to make it clear that the canvassing office was perfectly aware of every process and when it needed to be done. and how it needed to be worded. Once the resolution was passed and it was made into legislation, we followed both the House bill and the Senate bill, and anyone can sign up on the Rhode Island legislature. You follow the bill, you find out when it passes, when it becomes law. The wording of the bond issue comes directly from the past legislation. It gives you paragraph 14. I have given it to our council because we are required by law to... to have all of the elements in it to explain it to the voters by a specific date. And as of September 4th, there will be explanations for all of the questions that need to appear on the November ballot that is being worked on right now. But we are very clear, the only thing I was waiting for was the official approval so that I could present it to my Board of Canvassers to submit to the Secretary of State for the ballot.

Yeah, I will tell you that I got a little confused when I went to the canvassing and then did this research here because at the canvass, you know that I've been watching the different things for nonpartisan making sure and when I went to the 14th meeting in July, it was mentioned that the senator had it and it was being worked on at the state. But when I did my research at that time, it had already been passed.

But it hadn't been published. I had to give them the exact local amendment or local law as a number and not as a bill. I did not have the local number yet, but I got it from the Senator. But everything, all of the processes are spelled out. They're spelled out in Title 17. They're spelled out in the legislation. Once it's passed, that's what goes. So I'm confused by the confusion, actually.

Thank you, Jackie. Ben, I'm going to ask you to hold on one quick second. Kathy, I don't know who this is because it's just a phone number, but if we can bring up, there's a hand up. And if you can unmute yourself and then state your name for the record, please, sir or ma'am.

Good afternoon, President Hamilton and members of the Portland Town Council. This is Chuck Levesque. I live at 542 Park Avenue in Portsmouth. I had intended on speaking on something later, but I just want to briefly say that I've been involved in these things for almost 40 years. The process is always the same, and this is not meant to criticize. It's a little bit, I hope, of edification. The council votes a resolution to a certain amount of money. Really, it's wishlist. They send it to the legislature. The legislators will put it in, but we will not be able to get it passed without that council resolution. The legislature will take no action unless we have a council resolution backing the request. And then the document actually goes to bond council to make sure it's all up to Hoyle. And then it goes back to the canvases to be placed on the ballot. And Mr. Hamilton, you are certainly right. Not only do you have, you have a practical apple orchard of additional bites on this thing. because every single project will have to be proved by this council before you actually borrow the money. You have just now gotten authorization to borrow. And again, things don't always happen as quickly as we might hope, but I think this has gone as far as I can see from here in a reasonably well, You know, process. So, but no commitment has been made to spend a dime yet.

Thank you, Mr. Levesque. We appreciate that. And just for the record, not every project has to come back before the council. If the school department has cash to do one of the smaller projects, they can do that on their own because we're not bonding money.

I believe if they're taking the bond money, I think they have to ask us. You may well be right.

If they're using cash, they don't have to come back. So the smaller projects at Hathaway or Belleville, they could potentially use cash and not have to come to the council.

And I'm going to apologize for this because I planned on getting off here, but I will tell you, I was a senior in high school when the middle school opened. Now, I don't know how much work they've done on it in the interims, But that's like 50 years ago, so I'm sure it needs some work, okay? And it's a great facility. Anyway, thank you very much, members of the council, Mr. President, and I apologize for taking your time.

No apologies needed. Thank you, Mr. Levesque.

All right.

Do I need to push anything? No, you're on. I just got to bring it up to your...

Okay. Ben Farrell, 23, Gideon Lawton Lane, Portsmouth, Rhode Island. Mr. President, council members, I'd like to refute the idea that there has been misinformation or that this has not been presented in a clear and transparent way. I haven't been following this very closely, but it seems apparent to me the $41 million bond represents an envelope or a not-to-exceed amount relative to bonds. I don't want to talk about bites of the apple because I think everyone has a different interpretation of what that is. But individual projects that require bond funds, I expect those are going to be discussed at the town council and they're going to be made public as we go through them. So... There's been nothing undercovers here. I think people are either misinterpreting or choosing to misinterpret the meaning of the $41 million bond words, but it does not represent a financial liability to either the taxpayer or the town at this point.

Not until, I mean, unless the citizens of Portsmouth vote for it. Absolutely. And then any project that would come forward that would need bond funding would have full financials to say, we're going to borrow $15.2 million over the next 20 years, 30 years, whatever it is. Here's the cost. Here's the reimbursement expected. Absolutely. Does this council agree with that? Yeah, it seems pretty clear. That is the process that will go forward. So thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Farrell. Any further questions for Liz, Phil, or Chris, the dynamic trio? Chris already ducked away. There he is. Mr. Kesson, you have a question on the process?

Paul Kesson, 3241 East Main Road. Worst case, what is the impact of $41 million? Is it 7%? of our budget no the second thing is melville we were going to do a bond on melville a few years ago we were told there was no reimbursement on that because we didn't own the property if in fact we didn't keep using the building they would not do a reimbursement that's only a million dollars i think is what i saw in the in the flyer uh well

Melville projects were reimbursed. I don't know where. I thought they told us we weren't going to get, Ride told us we weren't going to get reimbursed at one point. We were reimbursed for the roughly $5 million. Well, it actually was about $6 million for... Melville, over seven. Melville projects were, yeah, the roof. I forgot about the roof. Roof, two bathrooms.

When we cease to use it, it does go back to the government. I thought Ride told us no, so I don't mind being wrong on that.

I don't think we'll ever cease to use it, and I don't think that's true. The only thing that reverts back to the in terms of Melville is just the ponds if we stop using it.

But I'll check on that. Mr. President, correct me if I'm wrong. I think that you may be referencing the initial project we had back pre-COVID where we were going to... 20-some million or something. Yeah, the original idea was we were going to have a Chevron loop for busing that would require us to be able to purchase the old... Captain's house. The captain's house. And Rye told us at that time that the purchase of property did not qualify for reimbursement.

Okay. Then I got that wrong. Thank you very much for the clarification.

But you're in the right ballpark though.

Right. So there's just one more question I'm going to ask. We're going to spend $12 million on a roof for the middle school and it needs it, right?

We're going to spend, well, the current estimate is 10.9, I think.

And 2 million in soft cost is what I thought I saw. So if we're going to spend $12 million to do the roof at the middle school, when we decide to

shine sunlight into the seventh grade sixth grade and fifth grade is there 12 million dollars going to be saved so i believe phil you want to come up and hit these skylights i believe part of the roof replacement is to install the skylights in the hallways to shine sunlight in the hallways but not it's only it's only skylights that skylights it's not a classroom that has outside windows on the i haven't seen the concept in the eighth grade wing proposal yes To redo the eighth grade wing, all classrooms will have light coming in from the outside world.

And I would think when we upgraded seven, six, and five, we would do the same kind of- In the future.

Right. So the eighth grade is a reconstruction of the current learning centers into individualized classrooms.

They get rid of the internal classrooms. Correct.

And then in addition, so if you are at the eighth grade wing, it goes to the right of, if you're looking at the backside of the eighth grade wing, to the right where the old Sewing shop and wood shop were.

Okay.

So that is actual additions. So there would be a total of 10 classrooms, right? For regular and two science?

Yes. So the addition is 10 classrooms?

No, the addition is... Four classrooms. Four classrooms.

So there'd be possibly be four for the seventh, sixth and.

Not unless this project goes forward and everybody's happy with it. And we say in 10 years, let's do the seventh grade.

The school needs to be upgraded. Yes. Would we use the same concept?

Yes. The goal is that this is the incubator project to say, let's see how this works out in the eighth grade and then move to seventh. Six and five in the future, hopefully.

Correct. And as we work through what I what I want to make sure is I don't want anybody to think that we're adding a four classroom addition every time we touch another grade level. At one point in time during these renovations of the four grade levels, you will need a four classroom addition. we want to do that now and then within the building they'll be sufficient space to remove those interior classrooms for five six and seven without adding any other additions referencing your comment about the roof we know where the corridors are in the middle school. So we could approach the roof project smartly in making sure that we are strategically locating any skylights now or in the future within the corridors.

Okay. It was just setting an expectation and not seeing concept drawings. and I don't have any expectation because I don't have any concept drawings. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

Thank you, Mr. Kasson. Mr. Grebe, question?

Tom Grebe, 110 Theta Drive. Anybody that's going to make a decision on the ballot question really needs to know what it's going to cost, what the debt service is going to be, and that needs to be presented sometime in the near future. I thought we'd get it tonight. I'm surprised we didn't.

I will be prepared by bond council a worst case scenario if we go to $41 million, what it would cost us over the 40 years.

You might have three or four of them, you know, 40, 35, 30, and so forth. But so people, we're not asking the people, the people don't get a chance to say, we think $20 million of this is a good deal and $20 million of it isn't. That's I think some of the angst you're seeing tonight because the voters are being asked to vote for all of it. $41 million, authorizing $41 million. And I think the voters, speaking for myself especially, would like to have seen and had a debate about the projects so that we could feel that, yes, this was a good idea, or no, it wasn't, and know the costs of it. We do not know the costs. And we learned tonight that we're not even going to get the pay go that we got in the last one, which is going to increase the cost fairly significantly as well. So I would say we need another session where Mr. DeIro or bond counsel or whomever comes in and shows – PFM, they did it last time – and shows what this is going to cost and how much the taxpayer is going to have to pay. Okay.

but it will not be reflective of the actual projects that will happen and be bonded for. It is just a not to exceed number. I can't tell you.

You're absolutely correct, but that's what we're giving you permission for. We need to know how much that is.

Okay. We will get a number for next meeting. It won't be accurate, but we'll give you a number for next week. Because we're not going to bond to $41 million. Correct.

And just to follow up on a few of those things, we certainly can come back to the town council if that's what you would like. But in the next few weeks and months, we have three months now to be out there, to have some community forums. I welcome all of you to attend those community forums where we can have conversations only about the town, like the school bond project. So I just welcome everyone to do that. Again, I will have information on our website as soon as probably by noon tomorrow. We're ready to share all of this information. I believe that the document, the Stage 2 document that we can share is over 1,000 pages. We will have it up there. feel free to review it all. Any questions you may have, we're here to answer them. I'm not sure that this is the appropriate forum to do that, but again, we will come back to the council whenever you would like. So thank you.

Appreciate it, Dr. Perez. Any other questions? Thank you all for coming in tonight and explaining the process. We're going to move on to new business number one, which is request... Council empowers staff to review and make recommendations to our short-term rental ordinance with the focus on updating current trends in STR, short-term rental, best practices from neighboring communities, and keeping the character of our town and protecting year-round residents. Mr. Piero will put this on. Ms. McDowell also requested in the last meeting, and I appreciate you for allowing us to bump into this meeting when Mr. Piero was here. So I'm going to let Ms. Piero start, and Ms. McDowell, you can go on afterwards.

Thank you, Mr. President, and thank you, Mary, for the bump to this meeting. I wasn't able to attend last meeting because of work travel. I think the president laid it out correctly on what we have heard from residents in our office hours. is that there are certain issues with our short-term rentals, but then in discussions with the town administrator and the planning office, I also think that it is just due time for us to be able to review what is happening. And my hope is that tonight that the council will vote in order to empower the current building staff in order to be able to bring to the council updates based on trends. We've had other municipalities around us and around the state update their ordinances. So bring best practices from those communities in an update and at the same time allow for the character to maintain the character that we have in town. And most importantly, create an ordinance that actually works for the office so that they can go ahead and whether it be enforcement, or being able to regulate coming and presenting to us something that actually works for them. I am not, and just to kind of go to section A, I'm not in opposition of creating an ad hoc committee, but I think that a committee is necessary to be able to work with a document. And I think having something that's presented by the staff first, and then having a committee established in order to review, to bring different voices and stakeholders is just a better use of time. So I'm not opposed to creating a committee. I just think that it's probably putting the cart before the horse. So that's all, Mr. President. Thank you. Okay.

Ms. McDowell. Ms. McDowell will go first, and then you can come up, Mr. Fitzmaurice. Okay?

No, I agree that that makes sense to do it that way. I just think that it is going to be important to have citizen input in this. A couple of citizens have already come forth saying that they would welcome the opportunity to sit down and be part of a committee looking at this. So I would just ask that we take that into consideration once planning has done what they need to do. Thanks.

And by referencing empowering staff, I'm assuming planning, building, legal, obviously to look at the ordinance as well. And then when we think about an ad hoc committee, we need to have...

There's already been an initial discussion of a matrix of types of individuals we would want to...

Both residents who own short-term rentals and don't own short-term rentals. Yes, exactly. Everyone should be able to... Mr. Fitzmaurice.

Thank you, Mr. President, Larry Fitzmaurice, 50, Kristen Court. I think Mr. Piero's idea is a good one. And we have some people way back when we first put together this ordinance. It was a PCC initiative. And we have some people still were involved in that. And they're probably very much interested in joining the group. Thank you.

Thank you. And I'm just going to ask Ms. Hitchen. You can come up and just give us a rough timeframe because I know you've already been working on it somewhat, but when can we think of something back to us working with legal that we could present and then potentially set up that ad hoc committee to review?

So that is true. The planning staff has taken a high-level review of what Middletown and Newport have done so far, and we could potentially have something to present to the council in three weeks or so.

Okay, so if we put you on the agenda for the second meeting in September, would it be safe?

That would be September 28th.

Yes, I think, 21st. September 21st, I think it is. 28th? Beautiful, even better.

is everybody comfortable with that i do just want to state that we tried modifying the short-term rental ordinance a couple years ago and um we had to move the the meeting to the the high school because just as many people that were for short-term rentals there were as many people against short-term rentals so i would expect a lot of people a separate individual meeting but that'll come after the ad hoc committee choose through it and comes back with all the recommendations based on your input legal input and that ad hoc committee which i'm going to look at two counselors who put this on and say they're going to be part of that i did reach out to um the solicitor in newport um asking for legal cases regarding short-term rentals and um one of their matters is actually going to the supreme court this fall so it's not um not dead yet not done yet that's okay

We have to do something. We can't just sit here and do nothing for the saneness of our residents, both for and against.

Understood.

Thank you, Ms. Hitchin. I appreciate it. Dr. Ryan, any questions or comments?

We did, the town council did try to address this question a couple of years ago. I'm sure you remember, Mr. Hamilton, President Hamilton, because you were here. I think if we're going to consider this a question again, what really needs to be done is we need to understand very clearly what the law allows the municipality to do. Because when this issue was brought up, a small group of people who are not residents of the town came to our meeting accompanied by their lawyer and we were told in no uncertain terms that if we tried in any way to restrict their ability to buy and expand short-term rentals in this town that they would sue us and we would lose so i think we really need to be very careful going through with this ordinance and i think it's important to get the citizens input to this but before we do anything else we need to know what the law allows us to do and we need to be very clear on that

Agreed. Thank you, Dr. Ryan. And I think it's imperative that anybody who's having issues with current STRs in their neighborhoods or neighbors, that you really need to contact the police and get that on record. Because if it's on record, then things can be done to that individual homeowner or STR holder. So we need to really make sure that those steps are taken. So we will, I don't think we need any action on this. We are going to have A presentation on the 28th of September, and then we'll set up an ad hoc committee from there. Mr. Kesson on STRs?

STRs. Paul Kesson, 3241 East Main Road. I have a safety question on STRs. If, in fact, we issue the ability for someone to have a rental... And as some friends of mine down the Cape who spent some time in New York, where the rest of my family is, they went to New York, couldn't get out of the house, house burnt to the ground. Seven people went, three people got home. Is the town liable? Because we issue a safety permit for the house that it's compliant enough to be a rental.

I'm not going to say yes or no, but I'm going to say that because towns have deep pockets, they're going to sue the town no matter what.

They are, but we should probably have the fire chief and our lawyer look and see what those consequences are, because I have a friend of mine that's missing four of his family members. That's disappointing to hear. I'm sorry about that.

It's a quite changing event. I do know that our fire department does inspect every SCR. No, we don't anymore. We used to. Was that the Rhode Island law that passed? Yeah.

Good evening. If you remember a couple of years ago when this was a hot topic, we were going down the road of possibly requiring sprinklers and so forth. There was no breakout in the fire code, the Rhode Island fire code, specifying what a short-term rental is. It was all in flux. The state has made a decision. They have carved out a section in the fire code for it. And as far as the fire department is concerned, local jurisdiction, we inspect for COs and smoke detectors upon time of transfer or sale. That's all the fire department has.

So we need to write that into our ordinance that there's going to be a fire inspection of... Can we write that into our ordinance?

No, absolutely not. I was told personally from the state fire marshal that if I were to go and inspect the short-term rental or delegate someone to do that, I would do it at my own peril. I would be not under my licensed authority that comes from him and open to sue. Because Rhode Island fire code takes the national fire code, and in the section that covers one and two families, there is a Rhode Island amendment that basically says none of the code applies in the state of Rhode Island. You will only inspect for smoke alarms and cell detectors upon time of transfer. So we can't go and inspect them at any other time for any other reason. No matter the square footage. not if it's a one or two family, which are actually the only ones that are allowed to have short-term rental, have to originate as a one or two family, and we have basically zero jurisdiction.

Okay.

Appreciate the update. I know they were trying to figure out whether that they were under the hotels or...

Correct. And they put them under a different category, but again, a subset of it, and we've got nothing.

Okay.

Appreciate the update. Thank you, Chief.

Again, Paul Kesson, 3241 East Main Road. I have a 112-year-old home that if I decided to turn into a rental, I have 28-inch hallways, stairwells, and doors. And having some of my friends die in the state of New York in a home that's very similar to mine, It just doesn't seem like the building meets, even if I had smoke alarms.

I'm just saying. I appreciate that. Again, I feel sorry for your loss and your friends. So we'll overuse phrase, but we'll have another bite at this apple on the 28th of September. Next up, new business number two, ratification of appointment for the finance director, Mr. Raynor.

Again, good evening, Mr. President, Town Council. As we all know, Kayla Marsden is going to depart as our finance director, and tonight is her last night. So again, thank you for everything you've done for the town. It's been a pleasure working with you. Tonight, I'm recommending Elizabeth Draper for appointment as our next finance director. You have my written recommendation and Liz's resume in your packet, and I would just like to give you a little context regarding how I arrived at this recommendation. Liz is not new to us. We did consider her during our previous finance director recruitment, which ultimately resulted in Kayla's appointment. Liz was a strong candidate then, but she withdrew because the timing wasn't right for her. When Kayla announced that she was leaving, the HR director, Lisa Pooley, and I immediately thought of Liz and contacted her to see whether the timing might be different now. It was, and she agreed to interview. We also advertised the position the same day Kayla notified us of her resignation. We received 29 applicants. We identified three total candidates for further consideration, and Liz was ultimately the candidate who proceeded to interview. Since we first considered her, Liz has gained additional years of experience as the finance director in Hopkinton. She currently oversees finance, tax assessment, tax collection, and is responsible for budgeting, treasury and debt management, payroll, accounts payable and receivable, financial reporting, and the annual audit. Before becoming finance director, she served as both deputy finance director and tax assessor. SO THIS IS SOMEBODY WITH SUBSTANTIAL HANDS ON MUNICIPAL FINANCE EXPERIENCE WHO UNDERSTANDS NOT ONLY THE ACCOUNTING SIDE OF THE JOB, BUT ALSO THE BROADER RESPONSIBILITIES OF MANAGING A MUNICIPAL FINANCE OPERATION. I ALSO THINK THE TIMING IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT TO PORTSMOUTH. OUR FISCAL YEAR 26 AUDIT IS ALREADY UNDERWAY. BRINGING IN SOMEBODY WITH LIZ'S MUNICIPAL EXPERIENCE GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A SMOOTH TRANSITION AND CONTINUITY WITHIN THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AT A PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT TIME. I've considered her qualifications carefully. I've interviewed her, and I've done the due diligence I believe is appropriate for a position of this importance. I am confident Liz has the experience, technical ability, judgment, and management skills necessary to be successful here, and I respectfully ask the counselor to confirm her appointment as Portsmouth's next finance director. Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you, Mr. Rainer. Any questions? Ms. McHale? Yep.

So at the last meeting, I informed the council that I would be bringing forth a resolution to request two members of the council to work in an advisory capacity in the interviewing and selection of a new finance director. That was on July 27th. On August 4th, I was informed that Mr. Rainer had offered the finance director position to a person who had applied three years prior. The posting for the finance director position had also just been posted on July 27th. I am disheartened by Mr. Rainer's actions. These actions circumvented a process that is both healthy and necessary in vetting candidates for a position as important as a financial director for a municipality. Ms. Marsden went through a vetting process in Somerset that consisted of three candidates being interviewed for a pool of 16 with an interview committee consisting of at least six people, various representatives from the school department and other areas. She was called back for a second interview before the job was offered to her. I commend Somerset for doing their due diligence in vetting candidates for that position and I commend them for their choice. Process is important, and that is why at this time I make a motion to defer the ratification of the appointment of Elizabeth Draper for the Portsmouth Finance Director until September 28th.

Mr. President, if I may.

I don't think that's an appropriate motion at this time. There is a process that was followed. There was an advertisement for the position. There were 29 applicants. Three were considered. One was hired. Our charter, as we discussed last time, clearly states non-interference from the council in the hiring process. I'm paraphrasing, but that's what it says. At this point in time, and delaying it to the 28th of September further complicates finance department and a delay at this point in time would be irresponsible on a council's part mr raynor you have a problem it's mr president first uh

I'm sorry that you didn't see the advertisement for that until the date that you specified. That was perhaps the day that it was posted on the website, but the advertisement was posted on the web literally the morning that Kayla Marsden informed us. I also reported to the council in my town administrator's report before there was any discussion at all at the last meeting. I INFORMED YOU OF KAYLA MARSTON'S RESIGNATION AND I ALSO INFORMED THE COUNCIL THAT THE PROCESS WAS ALREADY UNDERWAY. SO I'D JUST LIKE TO SPEAK. THE ISSUE HERE IS NOT WHETHER THE TOWN COUNCIL HAS AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE APPOINTMENT OF THE FINANCE DIRECTOR. THE CHARTER EXPRESSLY GIVES THE COUNCIL AUTHORITY TO APPROVE OR REJECT THE TOWN ADMINISTRATOR'S APPOINTMENT. THE ISSUE IS WHETHER THE COUNCIL MAY PARTICIPATE DIRECTLY IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS TO PROCEED THE APPOINTMENT, INCLUDING INTERVIEWING CANDIDATES, RECOMMENDING CANDIDATES TO THE TOWN ADMINISTRATOR AND RECOMMENDING INDIVIDUALS FOR CONSIDERATION OR INTERVIEW. THE PROPOSED RESOLUTION DESCRIBES THIS PARTICIPATION AS ADVISORY AND STATES THAT THE TOWN ADMINISTRATOR WOULD RETAIN FINAL SELECTION AUTHORITY. NEVERTHELESS, IT WOULD FORMALLY PLACE COUNCIL MEMBERS INSIDE THE RECRUITMENT, INTERVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION PROCESS. Section 303 of the charter establishes the town administrator as the head of the administrator branch and makes the administrator responsible to the council for proper administration of town affairs not assigned to an elected official or board. Section 304 Charlie of the same charter provides that the town administrator has the power and responsibility, quote, to appoint all department heads and other officers and employees provided for in this charter. Department head appointments are subject to approval by the town council. The charter therefore assigns distinct responsibilities. The town administrator appoints the department head and the town council approves or rejects the appointment. Section 305 provides, quote, the council or any of its members shall not direct or request the appointment of any person to or removal from office by the town administrator. It further states that except for purposes of inquiry, the council and its members must deal with the administrative service solely through the town administrator. Section 606 of the council specifically states that the finance director is appointed by the town administrator with the approval of the town council. Read together, sections 303, 304, Charlie, 305, and 606 establish an administrative appointment process followed by independent council approval. The resolution that's been discussed would establish a two-member council advisory committee whose members would participate in interviews, provide recommendations to the town administrator regarding interviewed candidates, and recommend candidates for possible interviews. The resolution states that the town administrator would retain sole authority to select and recommend the final nominee, and that the council's formal role would remain approval of the appointment. The central charter question is therefore not whether the committee's recommendations will be binding. They would not. The question is whether direct council participation in interviews and recommendations is consistent with provisions that one, assign appointment authority to the town administrator, two, reserve approval authority to the council, and three, prohibit council members from directing or requesting the appointment of any person. Calling the committee advisory does not eliminate that question. Advice concerning which applicants should be interviewed or appointed is still intended to influence the appointment process. The history, OF OUR CHARTER INCLUDES THE AMENDMENT PROCESS. THE CHARTER WAS AMENDED IN 2012. AND THE HISTORY OF THAT 2012 IS DIRECTLY RELEVANT. THE PUBLIC EXPLANATION OF QUESTION 16 ON THE BALLOT OF THAT YEAR STATED THAT QUOTE IF THIS QUESTION IS APPROVED, HIRING AND PROMOTION OF TOWN EMPLOYEES WOULD BE DONE BY THE TOWN ADMINISTRATOR. THE COUNCIL WOULD CONTINUE TO SET PERSONNEL RULES AND POLICIES. The explanation further stated that the amendment clarified and ensured conformity with section 305, non-interference by the council. The more detailed explanation repeated that hiring and promotion would be performed by the town administrator and identified the proposed amendment to 304 Charlie as clarifying the administrator's hiring authority. Question 16 was approved by 73% of the voters. The contemporaneous public explanation is significant because it shows what Portsmouth voters were told the amendment would accomplish. The voters were not told merely that the administrator would make the final recommendation. They were told that hiring and promotion would be done by the town administrator while the council would continue to establish personnel rules and policies. It's been suggested publicly the opposition to council participation in a hiring process reflects a lack of trust in the voters who elected the council. I don't believe that conclusion follows. The electorate has expressed its will in two distinct ways. One, by electing council members who exercise the authority assigned to them by charter, and two, by adopting a home rule charter that defines the limits and authority of every town office, including mine. Council members have democratic legitimacy because they are elected. The Charter has democratic legitimacy because it was adopted and amended by the voters. Respect for the electorate requires fidelity to both. My adherence to the Charter does not repudiate the voters. It honors the governmental structure the voters adopted. Appointment and approval are two separate governmental functions. The town administrator by our charter is accountable for administering the recruitment process, evaluating applicants, conducting interviews, assessing qualifications and organizational fit, selecting the candidate, making the appointment, and defending that recommendation to the council. The council is accountable for independently determining whether to approve the appointment. The council's confirmation authority is substantial. It provides a direct check on the administrator's judgment. The council may question the administrator, evaluate the nominee's qualifications, and approve or reject the recommendation. The council does not need to participate in creating the recommendation in order to exercise meaningful oversight of it. Council participation may create an actual or perceived opportunity for political considerations to enter what is intended to be a professional merit-based recruitment process. The concern is not that any current council member necessarily intends to act politically. That's not what I'm saying. Governance provisions are designed to protect against both present and future risks, regardless of the individuals holding office. Applicants for senior municipal positions may be employed elsewhere and may expect confidentiality during the preliminary stages of the recruitment. The involvement of multiple elected officials could discourage qualified candidates from applying or continuing through the process. If the town administrator alone conducts the selection process as intended by the charter, responsibility for the recommendation is clear. If council members participate in interviews and submit recommendations, responsibility becomes less clear. A candidate recommended by participating council members may be perceived as a joint selection, even though the resolution formally assigns the final decision to the administrator. Council members who participate in interviewing and recommending candidates may later be asked to approve the appointment. Their prior participation could affect or appear to affect the independence of the confirmation decision. A two-member committee would give council members direct access to candidates in the selection process that other council members would not have. The full council would later be asked to act on a process in which only two members have participated. The immediate resolution concerns one finance director appointment. the precedent could be broader. If council participation can be created by resolution for this department head search, future councils could seek similar participation in hiring the police chief, the fire chief, public works director, town clerk, tax assessor, or any other administrative employee. The institutional question must therefore be considered independently of the individuals presently serving on the council or in this chair. The charter provides a formal process for considering changes to Portsmouth's government structure. Section 103 requires the periodic appointment of a charter review committee composed of qualified electors who are neither elected officials nor town employees. That committee presents recommendations to the council for review and approval. Article 11 provides for charter amendments in the manner established by the Constitution. It also requires the ballot language substantially describe the proposal, that the full amendment be available before the election, and that a public hearing be held before a vote. That process is not merely procedural. It's an important public safeguard. It ensures that fundamental changes to the allocation of governmental authority occur through public review, after deliberate consideration, with advanced disclosure of the proposed language, following a public hearing, and with the approval of the electorate. A council resolution may express policy or govern matters within the council's existing authority. I don't believe it should be used to accomplish indirectly what would require a charter amendment if done directly. If Portsmouth wishes to change the allocation of authority between the council and the town administrator, so be it. The more appropriate course is to present that question through charter review and the amendment process. So to wrap it up, this issue is not about personalities, motives, or the qualifications in my eye of any current officeholder. It concerns the allocation of authority established by our charter. The charter assigns appointment authority to the town administrator, approval authority to the town council, and expressly prohibits council members from directing or requesting appointments. The 2012 ballot explanation told voters that hiring and promotion would be performed by the town administrator and that the amendment was intended to ensure conformity with the council non-adference provision. The voters approved that proposal by a margin of three to one. The charter amendment process provides the public with an essential safeguard against fundamental changes in our structure from being made through ordinary resolutions or changing political preferences. If the community wishes to alter the allocation of authority between the town council and the administrator, that question should be considered openly through the charter review and amendment process and ultimately decided by the voters. Until then, it's my responsibility to faithfully perform the role assigned to me by charter. And that's what I believe I've done, Mr. President.

Thank you, Mr. Rainer. Any questions or comments, other comments from the council? At this point in time, we have a line out the door, so to speak, and one online.

So I do have a motion, and apparently there's no second, correct?

Correct. Okay. We will start online. I'm assuming that's Mr. Levesque again. You just got to unmute yourself, Jeff. Hand went down. Okay. Now it's back on. Chuck, you just need to unmute yourself. Thank you. There you are.

I am here. Thank you, Mr. President and member of the council. I really can't add anything to the very thorough explanation that the administrator just gave. But I think you and I, Mr. Hamilton, perhaps more than any other person on the council, remember what a horror show it was when we had council participation. And it wasn't just, and I really do mean to say that it wasn't necessarily that anybody did anything wrong, but the fact was that people within the community automatically thought that the council was influencing it when it came to the administrator recommending somebody to us and us taking a vote. And I see, and it's always a bad idea kind of suggest a question when you don't know what the answer, but I seen Mr. Larissa there. And I will tell you this, that as a litigator, I will tell you that if I go into court with an administrator who made the decision, an administrator who has all the background as our administrator and all of the file indicating all of the steps they took in that process, he will have a presumption of regularity and a court would recommend that. But if the applicant, any applicant's attorney said, and did the counsel talk to you about this? If he answered yes, that would mean that the presumption of regularity goes out the window. It is almost automatically assumed then that there had been some influence that had nothing to do with the proper administration. And so again, and having been on a council back in way before you, Mr. Hamilton, I mean, I had people yelling at me that, you know, that I didn't hire their son or daughter or niece or whatever, when they weren't even, you know, in the top 10. So don't get the council back involved. It really, I think, solace the whole thing and make it a much more debatable proposition. And that's all. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Levesque. Mr. McDade. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. President. John McDade, 65 Gormley Avenue. I've served on two of this town's charter review committees, and I want to speak to what the charter says here. It's going to be duplicative of some of what Mr. Rainer said. The charter gives the council a real and important power. Under Section 606, the finance director is appointed by the town administrator with your approval. That approval is yours. If any member has a genuine concern about the candidate's qualifications, the charter gives you the tool to withhold your vote. Nobody's asking you to be a rubber stamp, but the charter draws a line and it draws it on purpose. Selection is the administrator's job. Approval is yours. Section 305 says the council shall not direct or request the appointment of any person. And that except for inquiry, you deal with the administrative service solely through the town administrator. That structure isn't an accident. It's how the town keeps hiring about competence instead of politics, as Chuck just said. The resolution in front of you tonight would erase that line. A council subcommittee that interviews candidates then recommends to the administrator whom to hire is not approving a choice, it's making one. And recommend an appointment to the administrator is the exact thing Section 305 forbids in those words. Here's what's at stake. Qualified people have options. When they see a town where the council can reach its political influence into hiring, they are going to take the other offer. We have seen what happens when political influence distorts qualifications for leadership positions in an administration. I don't have to be more specific, I don't think. Let's not repeat that mistake. You don't protect the town's finances by taking over who runs them. You protect them by letting the person you hired to run them run this town. the way the charter gives them the authority to do. Approve or reject the administrator's recommendation tonight, that's your role. But decline this subcommittee, keep the line that the charter and the citizens reports withdrew. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McDade.

Mr. Ferrell. Are we doing?

Apparently we've combined these. Apparently we've just combined them, yes.

That's what I'm trying to do. But are we going to separate them to vote on them?

Yes.

Okay.

Ben Farrell, 23 Gideon Lawton Lane, Portsmouth, Rhode Island. I have comments to both of these items. Fire away.

We can multitask up there.

Perfect. Perfect. I urge the town council to approve Mr. Rayner's choice for the position of finance director. There's every reason to believe that Ms. Draper, having been twice vetted, is more than qualified for this job. There's no reason not to appoint her based on her qualifications, on her background, and on the resume that's been published. The town is well served by having qualified staff. And conversely, delaying approval of key staff is detrimental to town operations and will ultimately hurt the residents of Portsmouth. The town charter is very clear, as multiple people have pointed out, in giving the council the approval authority of the town administrator's selection. I believe if... when you vote on that approval, if you vote in the negative, that the people of Portsmouth have, it's right for us to know why you're voting against them. I'd like to understand that it's not political, that it's not the person that you wanted because of some non-functional or some non-professional reason. And I also want to point out, as Mr. Rayner pointed out, we're in the yearly financial audit period. One of the key things that the town does and depriving us, depriving the residents of a qualified financial director is going to hurt that process. And again, ultimately hurt the residents of Portsmouth by having us, by increasing the potential of us having a not as good financial audit as we could otherwise have. So let me close this part of this by just reiterating, please, I urge you to approve Mr. Raynor's selection. Ms. Draper is well qualified for this job and that should go forward. With switching gears to this motion, The town charter is clear in prohibiting the town council from directing or requesting a particular person's appointment. The motion, as I read it, had two objectionable pieces. One was that the two-member council subcommittee be created to participate in interviews. Now, something has been said about the town council being those two members, but the motion doesn't restrict this to being town council members. The president can nominate or select anyone to now be embedded into Mr. Rayner's interview process with no accountability to voters. And yet, you know, Mr. Rayner is still stuck with that job of making the selection. The second part that I found objectionable in the motion is the idea that this two-person subcommittee is going to be able to nominate candidates for interviews. the implication being that these two people are going to go off and conduct some sort of a shadow interview. They're going to try to pick people, you know, Oh, Oh, I know somebody and, and, you know, let's talk about it and then get them in front of Mr. Rainer. This, this, this won't be a good process because Most people, I think, view the relationship between Mr. Raynor and the town council as Mr. Raynor works for the town council. And if your boss tells you, this is my recommendation, that's influence. You're influencing the decision from a position of power. And the town charter specifically prohibits that. So if there is an interest in changing that, then let's change it through the charter. review process, the charter amendment process, and not kind of try to run around this and say that approval is not putting your fingers on the scale. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Farrell.

Can we separate? These are two separate items on the agenda. I think they should be taken as that because this is getting combined.

There is no motion, there is no vote as of yet. Right, but we're on new business number two. Okay. If you want to up and down vote on new business number two, we can do that.

I'm just saying, I think we're combining two different agenda items into one, and that's not how they're listed on here, and I think that we should take them separately. Okay. If that's what everybody agrees upon, I mean...

i think because of the wording of maybe if we can get our legal advice or on these because of the wording on the agenda it's kind of they're they are muddied together anyways we can discuss we can discuss the ratification and we can go out on that right now if you would like is there a motion to ratify liz draper as the next finance director of the town of ford some of the enforcement second discussion

I have a question. Yes. I... You know, we had Mr. Levesque as a... He kind of weighed in legally. Could I hear from our town solicitor on what you've heard tonight and what the... Again, so you're going to... I'm going to the one we started with. That's what I'm going to. The other got muddied because it was allowed to get muddy. I'm going with the...

I would suggest in light of what happened, I agree with the president. The two are so interrelated. Show your microphone. Sorry. The two are so interrelated at this point that the vote in the first one may very well depend on what happens on the second one. And I'd be very happy to render my legal opinion on your resolution if that's the request of the council. In fact, I've been waiting to do so. On the request?

The resolution wasn't seconded. No.

Currently, right now, the only thing on the table, right?

Yes, it was. Currently on the table is a motion to ratify Ms. Draper. And that is new business number two. Okay. Now discussion. Now we can have discussion on it.

Okay.

Mr. Kitzmiller, we will get you in a moment, sir. Thank you. Be patient. Okay. Mr. Reese.

Okay. I read information is provided to back up the agenda item that was provided to us and online public documents from the town of Hopkinton website. And based on information from those sources, I cannot support selection of the applicant.

Okay. Would you like to Would you like to elaborate on that or just? No, I wouldn't. Okay.

So I also have concerns, you know, given the amount of applications that we received, I understand that, you know, Mr. Rayner did his due diligence on these applicants and there was one interview given. And I also did some research on Hopkinton's information, its public knowledge in the audit. And from what I saw, it concerned me. And I also... Can I just ask you a question?

If you have those concerns, would you like to try and have those answered? Or you want to just go by what you read?

Go by the audit. Okay. And what's in the audit.

But if our professional staff, HR, and Mr. Rayner, and our current finance director interviewed and asked those questions, would you like an answer as to whether or not those will satisfy you as to what you saw? Sure. If you would let me know what you saw, we could potentially get an answer for you.

If Mr. Rayner has information, that's fine.

Well, Ms. Marsden might have information. I don't know.

Sure. I mean, I didn't, I don't have the audit in front of me.

No, I don't expect you to, but if you have, if you, if there's a concern because there's a million dollars missing, I'm just making that up, but.

Let me look into the, I'll pull it up and get back.

Yeah, I can, um, um, bring out some things that in my research, um, And I have the audit here. And in the 2025 audit, they have not only material weaknesses, but significant deficiencies as well. And the thing that concerned me the most is the listing from the audit of certain conditions. And I'm just gonna read some of them because I do think that people should know why I am feeling the way I'm feeling. Prior year balances were not properly rolled forward in the general ledger to the next fiscal year, resulting in many funds being out of balance for all of fiscal year 2025. Also several prior year receivables and payables were not properly reversed in fiscal year 2025. Bank account reconciliations were not prepared in an accurate and timely manner during the 2025 fiscal year and several of the reconciliations contained errors and or did not reconcile to the general ledger throughout the fiscal year and at the year end. Property tax receivables reconciliations were not prepared throughout the fiscal year and were not completed until April, 2026. Journal entries were prepared at this time to record all the fiscal year 2025 property tax activity related to the property tax receivable and deferred inflow general ledger accounts and to allocate the property tax revenues to the proper general ledger accounts. Interfund reconciliations were not completed in fiscal year 2025. The interfund accounts were material out of balance as of June 30th, 2025. Audit adjustments were proposed to balance the interfund accounts. General ledger accounts were not properly reviewed and analyzed throughout the year and at year end to determine that the account balances and funds were materially accurate. I could go on. With this and in 2024, those are my concerns. I think they're legitimate concerns, and I worry a lot about this appointment. Also, I do feel that we as a community have had seven finance directors in 10 and a half years, and it does beg the question why. Anyone who studies I think organizations would most likely recommend an organizational analysis to determine the possible reason for such a turnover. Those are my concerns and that is why I cannot support right now at this time the appointment of this person.

Mr. Raynor, I'm going to ask you if you've read through the audits in the interview process, and if you'll ask questions specifically to those.

Specifically. And I even shared with you and the Vice President the questions that were specifically asked of her. Just let me be clear. I was aware of the Hopkinton audit findings before making this recommendation. Kayla and I specifically discussed these issues with Liz during the interview process. I did not ignore them, nor did I minimize them. There were legitimate internal control and financial closing issues in Hopkinton. The audit says so, but it also tells us why some of these problems existed. In particular, the auditor specifically identified limited financial department staffing as the cause of the segregation of duties weaknesses and recommended repeatedly the addition of full-time staffing or an independent review as part of the solution. The town did not help her. More importantly, After completing its audit, the independent auditor issued an unmodified opinion on Hopkinton's financial statements and reported no noncompliance material to these financial statements. So yes, there were material weaknesses, and I knew about them when we interviewed her. One concerned segregation of duties caused by limited staffing, another concerned financial reporting and closing procedures. I did not look at a single audit finding in isolation. I looked at the entire record, the circumstances in which she was working, her explanation, the corrective steps that she took, and how the experience translates to Portsmouth. That is what responsible hiring due diligence does. The question for me was not whether the finding existed. The findings clearly did. The question was whether I believe she understood the problems. She could explain how they developed. She had taken reasonable corrective action and could perform successfully in Portsmouth's financial control environment. I considered her explanations and the corrective action she took before making any recommendations. So, yes, there were recurring findings. That is exactly why we questioned her about them. I evaluated whether those findings resulted from lack of knowledge, lack of effort, structural staffing limitations, or a combination of those factors. Based on the interview of my review of the circumstances, I am satisfied that she understands the issues and she did take reasonable steps to address them. She had no deputy. She had no staff. The former town manager or the town manager was the former finance director who didn't let go of the ranks. He only meets with her once a month. Portsmouth has different staffing and controls. We have an adequately staff finance department and tax office and established internal controls to provide appropriate separation of duties. I think With regard to staffing, I have explained this to the president, vice president, they know exactly what happened over the last 12 years. The bottom line is municipal finance directors are among the most difficult senior positions to recruit and retain. The skill set is highly specialized and experienced municipal finance professionals are in strong demand. And successful directors often have opportunities to move to larger municipalities, state government, or better compensated private sector positions. They get recruited constantly. We can't compete. The only reason I get the department heads to stay here is because of the culture that we've developed. What I can control is whether we recruit qualified people, we maintain appropriate staffing and controls, and we provide continuity when transitions occur. And that's exactly what I'm trying to do with this appointment. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, sir.

Ms. Blank, question.

Mr. Rainer, is it fair to say that you also looked at the other two candidates that were interviewed of any shortcomings and asked similar questions of them and got the full scope on them as well?

We invited them to interview. One did not pass the initial vetting process, looked good on paper. The second looked good on paper, but ultimately declined to interview. the pay and benefits don't meet the expectation of the responsibilities in that department.

Understood. Thank you.

Any further questions, discussion?

Please. So part of the discussion that we had when we went through the agenda meeting is that this is a profession where people have the sky's the limit where they can go. And I wish Kayla success. She's making that big jump and people do it for mostly for monetary purposes or be closer to home, whatever it may be. The thing that keeps coming back to me is do we need a CPA? And we did talk about it briefly. Can we afford a CPA? But I didn't ask the question. Was there anybody that came through that with CPA qualifications? Yeah.

so we're still behind that eight ball i mean we we've had one maybe i don't know if dave foucher was a cpa maybe there's two of them but um and it's not listed as a mandatory requirement it's just oh it's it's not and really a cpa is is a different it's a different animal uh just run through the list jim lathrop who was here when i got here uh it was a cpa let it lapse not required Dave Fauci was not a CPA, had been a finance director for many years. We brought him back. He declined to stay. Lisa Mills was a CPA. She let it lapse. It's not required. Lisa Lasky was a CPA. She kept her qualification and, quite frankly, was looking for more monetary recoupment for the position. The reality is, yeah, CPA is a great qualification to have and it's a credential, but it's not the only credential. And we've had numbers of finance directors who have not maintained it because it's not required for what they're doing.

Sure. So I guess if you and both Kayla are saying unequivocally that this is a person that can come into Portsmouth, you know, put the boots to the ground, and she's going to meet our needs for however many years she decides to stay, even though she has more management experience and finance experience. Is that what I'm hearing from you folks?

She does have experience. good finance experience. I mean, she was a deputy finance director. She was the president of the assessors association. She is a qualified tax. She's a current tax collector. Uh, she's an assessor. Uh, she is a finance director. She was recruited by the town manager to come and be their finance director. Uh, so she has, uh, those credentials. Um, obviously the, the focus of the interviews was, uh, the audits. Uh, I read them from 2021 to 2025. Um, I think that all the issues were adequately addressed, and I can assure you I would never, ever make a recommendation to this council that I wouldn't feel confident in I wouldn't that I wouldn't feel confident proposing. Um, I have to work with this person and ultimately I'm the one that's responsible.

Right.

There's only a couple of positions that can go to jail on these jobs. Uh, mine is one of them. And so as finance director, we're not going to abandon that fiduciary responsibility to Portsmouth. I think we've demonstrated that in 12 years of stellar audits, uh, surpluses, uh, paying down, uh, debt and, uh, taking care of our pension liability and our OPEB liability, the budgets. Every year I post, whether anybody pays attention or not, I post what our tax burden is relative to the inflation rate. And it is remarkably stable for as far back as you want to go. And I think that takes a dedicated team that is taking their fiduciary responsibility and Portsmouth responsible. And I've never recruited anybody who had a different mindset.

Thank you, Mr. Williams.

Ms. McDowell.

Yep. So Mr. Rainer, in the 2024 audit for Hopkinton, when it talks about one of the material witnesses, it does say, and when you read this as someone doing their due diligence too, it gets pretty scary to me, okay? No matter what you've done, it still gets pretty scary. And I have a responsibility too, okay? So when it says the town has been behind in completing the monthly and year-end reconciliation and closing procedures since fiscal year 2020, 2022, resulting in the continuation of the delays of the reconciliations and closing procedures into the following two fiscal years. And then when you look back and see when the person was appointed as finance director, it was 2022. I mean, how do I ignore something like that? And this is very, very concerning to me. And I just don't know what else to say.

The short answer is you don't ignore it. The short answer is you don't ignore it. Absolutely not. And nor did we.

But when they say that, does that bother you?

That's why we asked about it. But the fact of the matter is, prior to that, there was a finance team, there was a finance director, there was a deputy finance director, there was a clerk. That's what we have. We also have an independent tax assessor's office and a tax collector's office with the full staff. When this person was brought back and asked to be the finance director, this person came back to be a one-armed paper hanger. They had no staff. So this was repeatedly brought up in the audits. This is why it fell behind. The auditor recognized this and it was disclosed. It's in the audit because it was disclosed by the finance director and by the town. The finance director has trained a clerk to try to take over some of the duties of a deputy and to instill the proper financial control so that the one person who is doing the reconciliations is also not the same person signing the checks that's been rectified this person has also on their own because they could not hire an fte a full-time employee has recruited an intern to help take care of the the load that's assigned to the finance department So over the course of three interviews, I feel that this has adequately been addressed. I'm comfortable with her explanation and for the situation that she was in. She won't face that situation here. She's also the tax assessor and tax collector and responsible for that. So these are situations that We have, over the course of many years, decades, insured can't happen in Portsmouth because we have better system of internal controls. There's better oversight of the budget and the finances by the council. And we have adequately staffed teams, both in finance and in tax assessor's office. So yes, I understand your concern. I'm not mitigating that. But I can assure the council that this was dealt with head on and I'm satisfied with what she's done to correct it, how she disclosed it, how she handled it into the interview process. And I'm confident that she would do very well here in Portsmouth.

And the factor that we're double the size and double the budget doesn't concern you at all compared to Hopkinton?

No, as a matter of fact, I think it was clear during the interview, her job would be essentially easier on what she's doing now because she's staffed. She doesn't have to worry about you know, the tax collector window. She doesn't have to worry about the reconciliation. We have a town accountant that does the reconciliation and the town finance director can oversee the operation. So yes, it is a bigger responsibility, but she also probably has about four times the staff that she has now, if she's appointed.

Mr. Reese, you had a question?

Mr. Yes, I did, Mr. Arena. Well, how can you justify not giving us this information that your backup was sketchy at best? We didn't really get any information, so we go out and we try to find information on our own. And obviously, you got a lot more information by speaking with her and knowing the whole situation. We go in, we've got a whole council of stuff to do. And there was like very little backup on it. None at all, really. I mean, you know, there was a, there was a, you know, marginal resume, which wasn't detailed out. So we, I went looking on my own. I think everybody else did too, find out where she worked and, you know, how things went there. And we found what we found. I mean, you know, It makes me uncomfortable to just hear this all now.

I'm sorry for your discomfort, Mr. Reese, but I think I've explained in excruciating detail what my responsibilities are and how I followed them.

We should be able to digest this before we get to talk.

This should be happening now. Both of you, stop. The process of the charter and of filling the position was followed by staff. Our professional HR department reached out, got 29 people to respond. 26 were deemed not good right off the bat. Two others were deemed marginally okay and failed. And they went through the process of asking these questions. So yes, I don't know how much more backup could have been done But our process is to go and say, our professional staff went forward, reviewed, interviewed, asked the hard questions that was found, and Mr. Rayner is here to explain it.

If this is the person he wanted, there should have been more information on this one person to introduce this person to us so we would know more about her, or him or her, whoever it would be. And there wasn't anything. So we go out, and anybody that didn't find this information out wasn't doing due diligence. Now, maybe we were mis... Maybe we didn't get it all right because we didn't have the whole picture.

Which is your right.

They know about staffing and everything else.

Which is your right to ask that question as to we looked at this, and the big thing that jumped out at me when I looked through their audits was specifically mentioned staffing issues. In both. Material weakness was their staffing issues. So the only way to correct that is to hire more people. But she's not the hiring person. The administrator is over there. We do have a motion and a second to ratify Liz Draper as our next finance director. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed?

No.

Motion passes 5-2. Thank you all. I'm going to ask for your patience a little bit more, Mr. Kitzbill, because I'll let you... Mr. President, you should mention the people that said nay to the clerk. Oh, sorry. 5-2 with Ms. McDowell and Ms. Patton in the negative. Sorry, thank you. Ms. McDowell, would you like to introduce New Business 3, since it is your agenda item?

What?

What? You can ask to table it or unless you want to, we could still speak about it if you would like to.

Sure, I'd love to hear the legal opinion on that resolution because we've heard so much other stuff that I just want to make sure that.

Okay, but I'm also going to give you that I can line up one, two, and we've already heard from one lawyer and their legal opinion as well. one who happened to be a magistrate for a while too.

Let's go for it, all of them.

Mr. Larissa, if you want to give your opinion, please do not mention the word wiggle room.

Or bite at the apple.

Or bite at the apple. This is the last bite at the apple of this resolution.

It's kind of mooted for now, but there's two things. One is policy and one is law. I've been in separation of powers since the beginning in this state and in municipalities with my role as a mayor of East Providence and chief legal counsel to Governor Allman. And one thing you don't want to do is confuse policy with law. It can go both ways on policy of whether two members of the council should sit in on interviews, not direct any appointment, not request any appointment, but participate. Nothing in the charter prohibiting participation, nothing whatsoever. As far as the administrative service goes, once somebody is appointed in the administrative services, as happened tonight, now the council's role is inquiry only through the manager. I rendered, I wrote this resolution at the request of the councilwoman. The charter does not prohibit it. Sometimes things get ingrained in a town or a state that seem to be, wow, that's the way it's always been, so that's the way it must be. Now, again, there's other legal opinions. Mr. Rainer read one. A lot of those are infused with policy concerns of why the council shouldn't do it, of why politics might get involved. But there's also contrary policy concerns like the council raised tonight. We didn't know any of this. If one or two of them were sitting there, they would have known all of this and maybe it would have been a unanimous vote. Policy concerns go either way on this. But the charter is, there is no wiggle room. It's clear that this resolution would have passed muster because it does not do anything. The charter says it can't. Now let me give you just a little history on how I can prove that the popular mythology is wrong. A few months ago, we heard the notion, and it's always been the case, and there's good policy reasons on either side, that the council cannot participate in the negotiation of contracts. Nope. We heard the waste management. That's the manager's role. Council out. You ratify, but you can't be in the room. That's wrong under the charter. Now, there may be great policy considerations for that, and some of them have been laid out. You don't want the council in there. It might confuse the vendor. It's not the whole council. It's just members of the council. But in other communities like East Providence, we did it differently. We sat in one or two council members, and it actually made the vendor feel more comfortable. because they knew at least some members of the council would be in favor of this ratification. The policy can go either way, but the charter is clear. And there was a shocker that night that nobody knew about in this town forever, apparently. that collective bargaining agreements, you would think police and fire, well, that clearly has to be the manager and the council approves. The Portsmouth Charter says the manager can have nothing to do with it. The council itself, by the direct language of the charter, can negotiate itself with police and fire and shut the manager out. That's very odd for almost every community. But that's what the charter says. So the notion that members of the council, one or two, cannot sit in, ask questions, not direct, not request, but simply advise and all these questions on the audit. would have come out and they would have sat there and they would have said, like several of them did today, okay, we wish we'd known this earlier. Not that they could have known this earlier, but the advice and consent role of a council, you watch the Senate, oh my gosh, when they're advising and consenting on an appointment, they grill them over anything. Unfortunately, and it is the way this can work under the charter, the manager, you have to trust him to review all those questions, make the determination, and then the council on advice and consent day has very little information. Not everything that they're concerned with. So it can go either way. That's the way the charter works, as the president will point out, and the manager, or it can be the council can get in on the process with one or two members earlier. It's a policy call. There's nothing in the charter that prevents a member or two members of the council from asking. Can't request, can't tell them who to pick, but they sure can ask questions and sit in on the process. So that was my legal opinion. Now, what does a solicitor's legal opinion mean under the charter? The solicitor under the charter is the chief legal officer. The solicitor's legal opinion controls. Private legal opinions, other legal opinions, council member legal opinions do not control. Now what does that mean? Can the solicitor's legal opinion be overruled? Absolutely. Council by majority vote can overrule the solicitor's legal opinion. But when the solicitor gives a legal opinion, which frankly I think should have been asked first, not last, but okay, it was asked. In this case, the legal opinion is moot. But if this issue comes up again, it's going to be my legal opinion, just like it was, that the counsel can participate in contract negotiations. can actually do collective bargaining agreements all by itself. And yes, with respect to appointments, you can sit in the room, you can ask questions, but the administrator's decision is final both in selecting who is interviewed and selecting who will go to the counsel. So the counsel can be in at the beginning and can be in at the end in advice and consent. And that's my legal opinion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Larissa. We're going to agree to disagree, and we're going to move on as quickly as possible on this, Mr. Perry, if you don't mind. Mr. Kitzmiller, you've been very patient. Thank you, sir.

Captain Jim Kitzmiller, 140 Adams Drive, Portsmouth. I will read for the record and for the broader audience the letter that I wrote addressed to the Portsmouth Town Council yesterday. on Resolution 2026. Members of the Portsmouth Town Council, I'm writing to formally protest Resolution 2026, specifically the establishment of a two-member Town Council Advisory Committee to assist with the Finance Director's search. I served as a volunteer member of the Portsmouth's 2019 Charter Review Committee. During that process, the committee reviewed the provisions cited in the resolution, including Article 6, Section 606, and Article 3, Sections 304 and 305. These provisions were retained to establish the respective roles and authorities of the town administrator and town council in the appointment of the department heads and employees. Under the town charter, the town administrator has the authority to appoint department heads and other officers and employees, including the finance director. Establishing a town council advisory committee to participate in that search appears to introduce town council involvement in the process for which the charter assigns responsibility to the town administrator. I also believe it is appropriate to ask why this issue has arisen now. If the Council believes that these charter provisions require reconsideration or that the current allocation of responsibilities is no longer appropriate, is there a broader plan to review these sections? Could these provisions not be addressed at the next scheduled charter review in 2027? I believe that process should be clearly identified and conducted through the appropriate charter review process rather than addressed through an individual resolution concerning a specific appointment. With respect to the current finance director search, I have reviewed Ms. Draper's qualifications and found them to be substantial. The town council determines that the town administrator's selection is not appropriate. The council has the authority to reject the appointment and allow the town administrator to continue the search. If the Council takes that action, however, Portsmouth residents are entitled to understand the basis for their decision and the specific qualifications or considerations that led the Council to conclude that the candidate was not suitable for the promotion. I request that the Town Council reconsider Resolution 2026 in light of the roles and authorities established by the Town Charter and clarify the broader purpose and rationale for the proposed Advisory Committee, respectfully.

Thank you, Mr. Kitzman. Mr. Katzman, a knight of K's. Why are you limping? Why are you limping?

Other than getting old. I'm getting old. Getting old. I'm fighting it, but I'm getting old. Len Katzman, 162 Spring Hill Road. Mr. President, honorable council members, the solicitor at the last meeting said that this resolution, which had not yet been drafted, was akin to having a council liaison sit on a committee. Now, volunteer Portsmouth residents, unpaid, sitting on a committee, want to do that job, but if you kick them off that committee, you're not threatening their livelihood. I'm not sure you quite appreciate the point that you are, as Mr. Farrell pointed out, you are the boss of the town administrator. The town council can technically fire the town administrator at any time. There may be financial costs due to contract considerations, but nonetheless, town council is the town administrator's boss. So imagine your boss is sitting next to you saying, I want you to look at this candidate and you'd be a good hire. Just, just, just, you know, advisory, just advisory. Are you really going to say no? Knowing that your boss could fire you if you don't do what he says. Now, Mr. Rainer would, because he is a person of unimpeachable integrity. That is a fact that I'm confident not all of you either appreciate or understand. You are compromising a system in our charter, regardless of what, and I will say it, wiggle room, the town's lawyers, because the town solicitor said it last time, regardless of what wiggle room you might find in between the words of the charter that some other thing that nobody understood to be the case before is somehow implied. This is a process. And the town solicitor last meeting said that there is information that the council can demand and how they get at that information is up to the council. His words, up to the council, up to this council, not up to a select two council members, up to the council. The council is the governing body, the policymaking body, not two individual council members. No matter what is done in Somerset or East Providence or other communities with different charters and different structures of government, it doesn't matter what they do. Our charter says what it says. And the common public understanding of our charter is that the council does not get involved in these hiring decisions. That understanding has been held by everyone. What's troubling most to me is how are we even here? We have a assistant solicitor, I believe is the title, yeah? Or I'm not sure, are you the town solicitor, assistant? Oh, solicitor, my apologies. Has drafted a resolution. and rendered a legal opinion, and yet this body never voted to direct a resolution be developed nor a legal opinion be developed. I don't know if there are going to be separate invoices for this work, but conceivably there could be. And one council member can now incur that cost because a solicitor did work at the request of one council member. That's not how this works. You all need to vote for these kind of things. No, ma'am. If the councilman, if the president wants me to stop, I will stop.

I will not take that as insinuating that I don't care about invoices or anything else. Anytime I talk to our solicitor, I ask him, is this on the retainer or not? So please do not imply that I could care less about that.

I never use those words, ma'am. I think I do, actually, because words mean things. Like our charter has words that mean things. I'll close with this. Like I said, whether there are invoices or not, the process isn't a person goes, could have been you, could have been you. Go to the town solicitor. Shouldn't you be going to the town administrator? That's what the charter says. And unfortunately, it turns out that in Portsmouth, Rhode Island, in the United States of America, citizens have as much rights to uphold the law as they can afford because we would have to go to court. We'd have to file a complaint in superior court if you violate the charter. So you're free to go violate the charter all you want. And what are we supposed to do? All we can really do is urge you not to do it. The very idea of this resolution is wrongheaded in the context of our charter. Other communities may do other things. That's fine. Let them govern how they like. In Portsmouth, everyone understands our charter to mean what it says. And I'll just close with noting, there was a time I served on the council And then someone came up to me and said, can you help me get my son a job? I was grateful to not only be able to say no, but be able to say I'm not allowed to. The charter prevents it. We all rely on the words of the charter, the public and the council alike. Please follow it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Castor. Mr. Ferber. Yes. 271 Sprague Street. I felt compelled to get up when Mr. Rainer referred to CPAs like I am as special kinds of animals. Thank you. That's OK. So you're certainly unique. Yes. And I'm also an executive recruiter. So I guess I'm addressing Dave Gleason particularly because he made remarks regarding how much it costs for a CPA. And so I told people. prior to the last election, I think it was, when they were seeking the previous finance director, that if you wanted a CPA, you were probably looking at paying $150,000 because they're scarce. You're not produced as a CPA. You have to pass an exam, but the The country changed the educational requirements to qualify to sit for the CPA exam. And a lot of students just don't want to do that because other things like computer science were paying more money and so forth. To Ms. McDowell, the comments that you made about the weaknesses in the Hopkinton audit, those are usually the result of... A management letter, an internal letter that's given to the council, to the town manager, city manager. And they're just indications here, these are weaknesses that need to be improved. So the next year you shouldn't see most of them, if not all of them. But in the meantime, if I heard correctly, Hopkinton had a clean opinion. on their audit. That's all that matters. The incidents that you cited need to be cleaned up for sure, but they didn't impact what the auditors finally decided. Plus most towns, most communities have a tough time with staffing their accounting departments. So they don't have the help. And evidently Hopkinton is one of them, but evidently Portsmouth does have pretty good staffing. So I just wanted to clarify those couple of things.

Thank you.

But I was particularly offended.

Rightfully so. It's almost like making a joke about a lawyer.

Oh, Senator Uchufusa. Hey, hey. I know. Thank you so much, Mr. President. I know it's getting late, so I'll keep it very short. I believe, I have to say that I was shocked to see this resolution, Councilperson McDowell, because I believe you've always said that it's important for the community to have a voice. And we had a charter review committee that had many, many people involved And somehow you are trying to circumvent that with this resolution. So I just wanted to point that out. It was shocking to me. The number two thing is even though a couple of our council people said that they had done their homework, to call our town administrator a decorated military service person sketchy is also quite offensive to me. He did his due diligence. The question to you folks would be that did you – Did you consider any of the other information that has been presented to you? And how could you not be able to identify specific things that made you vote the way you did? I found that quite disturbing. And finally, why should I let our town solicitor go? The resolution was... In fact, potentially misleading because you cited Article 305 without putting in the title, which in bold in our statute says non interference by the council. So I'm not exactly sure how. you were able to produce a resolution that left out the bolded title of Article 3, Section 305, which is non-interference by the council. So those are my three points. Thank you, Mr. President.

No, I'd like to address that, Mr. President. Please. We don't need to. No, I would very much like to, and I would request...

I would like to hear what he has to say.

Thank you. The titles, as you should know, have no bearing on the text of any statute or ordinance that's law. But I would suggest, in proof that there's no charter violation whatsoever here, that when the Charter Review Committee meets, instead of using the words, the counsel shall not direct or request... To make what you're saying true, you might want to add the words or participate in because that's all the council is doing here. And there is nothing in the charter that says the council may not participate in until it's amended with your charter review.

We're going to stop. We've, we've to use another old phrase, beaten this horse dead, but no, We're going to move on to...

I just want to make one last comment here. And we are talking about NB3, correct? Correct. All right. I served on the ad hoc committee for the recycling and transfer station, excuse me, transfer station curbside process. And I think that's where it belongs. I think an ad hoc committee is perfect for the short-term rentals. In this case, I don't believe it belongs for something affiliated with the charter. However, I think what's been pointed out, and if there's another bid process that goes on, there's nothing that would preclude a counselor from calling Mr. Raynor and saying, how are you doing with that bid process? What can you tell me about our candidates? Is that a safe assumption?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Hiring process, not bid process.

Right.

Hiring process. Correct. Sorry.

To your point, we didn't know any of this was even going on. You know, we got the letter when the agenda was put out. And then once I saw the letter, I did send an email over to Q to ask how many applications we got and so on. So it's hard when all the information is not shared with all council members.

At the last meeting. when Mr. Raynor announced Kayla's retirement. You're not retiring? No. Moving on to another position. Her departure, she wishes. Her departure, he did state that the process to replace her had been started and that the application, not the application, the advertisement had been posted.

But that was it. We didn't know how many applications were coming in. We didn't know who interviews. There was no information given. It's just the point that I was making.

Okay.

And I don't disagree with your point. It's just here's another way to get around that next time.

New business number four, Ms. McDowell.

This will be easy.

We can table it. We don't have to do anything.

I was just wondering. Okay.

If you would like to make a motion to table, we can. Motion to table and before all those in favor. Opposed sorry, I said, and before it's 3 and 3, sorry. Yes, correct. All those in favor of tabling and be 3. I opposed 9, I think. Motion passes 5 to 2. With miss blank and Mr. payroll and. Dissent. We're moving on to new business four, which is concerns that were brought up at our last meeting and also via an email from a constituent concerning swarms of mosquitoes in Island Park.

Yeah, I just wanted to know if there was an update at all, either from our staff or through DEM via our staff. That's an update.

And here he is. Mr. President, members of the council, DPW has placed more than 1500 lava side briquettes and catch basins throughout Portsmouth. Island Park and CFP have been completed. DEM lead scientist Janelle Carr was unavailable due to a prior commitment, but these are notes that she had from our conversation. DEM currently has mosquito traps deployed in Island Park. Over the past three weeks, the mosquito population has dropped significantly. The majority of mosquitoes identified have been saltwater black mosquitoes, which typically hatch in saltwater marshes and areas of natural vegetation. No mosquito-borne viruses have been detected in Portsmouth area. Based on current tests, DEM would only recommend mosquito spraying in areas where viruses have been detected in mosquitoes, not solely to address nuisance mosquito populations. Lab-side treatments are only effective in areas where water remains stagnant and does not drain or channel out. But future considerations tell me research salt marsh areas determine whether drainage channels can be improved. Any such work would need to be reviewed and permitted through DEM. DM also noticed several properties where excessive debris was present in residents' yards, including yard waste, old tires, and other materials, which can create areas for standing water and mosquito breeding. So the number in, so as of 7-27, there was 275 black salt marsh mosquitoes collected. A week later, 8-4, there was only 69 collected. So it is dropping and the larvae situation is working.

Thank you. Also, she had mentioned some abandoned boats on Peace, which is actually an extension of Highland. Thank you, Mr. Gleason. And Marine Avenue. Can we investigate that? Do we have a similar... abandoned boat, abandoned vehicle basically on land because if they're full of water, they're a breeding ground.

Yeah, the issue here is I talked to the zoning enforcement officer. This person has been cited. and if they don't respond, I forget how much longer he has to respond, they'll be summoned to municipal court.

Okay, perfect.

Thank you. We can't just go and take it because it's on private property.

I just want to make sure that the woman who sent us the email about the complaint about it understands that we are doing something about that. Mr. President, if I could ask a quick question. Sure.

Paul, since I have you here, and this is more of an education thing for me, obviously it's pretty fast affecting the treatment that you've provided. How long does that treatment last?

Until it rains and they all washed out of the water.

Unfortunately, we had six inches of rain in July, so all that lava side went straight out to the Sakonic River.

I was fortunate enough to catch that storm twice.

Yeah. Thank you, Paul. I appreciate that. I don't think we need any action on that. It was just an update, correct? All right. Next up. Yes, sir.

I'd like to comment on...

on Arthur Palmer. Mr. Palmer, can you just pick that up a little bit because you're a lot taller than Paul. Thank you, sir.

There's not very many lollipops left. I've been waiting a long time here. Arthur Palmer, AP Enterprise LLC, Zero Highlands, Zero Russell, Zero Walnut, and Zero Park. I am the owner of the landfill and I'm here to defend it. Deborah Farber-Cardoza continues to attack me for no reason whatsoever. I get compliments for cleaning up that dump because now the wind can blow across the top of it. Sorry about that. Wind can blow across the top and help reduce the amount of mosquitoes that are stagnant and hanging around. I have no standing water. I get bitten more from the horse flies from her horse than I do from the mosquitoes that I'm out there cutting the grass. So, you know, it's a very sad situation, but it's got to stop. I can't be getting picked on like I do. It's just not right. I mean, I'm here, you know, where's the thank you for saving the town $4 million for cleaning it up on their behalf? So I'm, uh, so, okay. So, um, but she's the one who, she's the one who made the complaint. So that's why I'm here. Appreciate your update.

And we do appreciate your closing the dump.

And you can contact me at any time.

I know nothing to hide. I'm going to try to get ahold of you, correct? I have nothing to hide. So thank you for listening. Thank you, Mr. Farmer. Now, new business number five, which is some good news this evening. We have a request of approval, a consent agreement with Rhode Island DEM for the purpose of resolving the wastewater pollution violations by DEM. Mr. Larissa and Mr. Drake.

We're tag teaming up, Mr. President, again. We went through some of the details in this in a closed session concerning this litigation. But the highlights are it's all good news. As you pointed out, we've been at this since September 15th, 2010. when dem alleged a violation and back then they were demanding that the town install sewers throughout the municipality which was of course a non-starter there was a lot of litigation a lot of legal fees and uh basically a battle in a standstill between uh ridem and the town and the first thing it did is it says in the consent degree which is on the docket Is it resulted in the closing of all the waters in the coven? So, kind of river to fishing as part of this agreement and the cleanup that's being accomplished by the town. We were able to insert a provision into this agreement with. that says the parties applaud the recent reopening of 426 acres of Portsmouth shellfishing beds to the west of the Mount Hope Bridge. Building upon that success, Rydam and the town acknowledge the joint goal of reopening shellfish beds to the east of the Mount Hope Bridge in compliance with relevant RIDEM rules and regulations. That's legal speak. What it really means is once the waters are determined clean as a result of the town's efforts, the shellfish beds that were closed in 2010 will be reopened. I have to say none of this would have been possible without the efforts of Todd Drake. He has been on this since Gio and I became solicitors and looked into this issue. The whole matter was at a standstill. DEM wanted to enforce. The town said we don't want to enter into a consent decree and we were threatening litigation and they were threatening another NOV. until Todd finally said, Joe, we're almost close to done. What are we really fighting over here? And since then, compared to now, we really weren't as close to done as we are now. And Todd's going to explain the efforts of our new prosecutor and municipal court judge in getting these systems cleaned up so that there's no more contamination. There's only a few left to be done. We have until 2030 as an outside date to finish the job. That's almost done. And even then we were able to insert in the agreement that if we request an extension for good cause, that won't be unreasonably withheld. So tonight we're asking the council to put an end to this long running saga and authorize the town administrator to sign this. Consent decree, but before we get there, I'd like Todd to explain where we were, where we're at, and what's left to be done.

And just for the record, please don't go out shellfishing in the area until it's legally opened by DEM.

Okay, so where did we start? In 2015, when the wastewater ordinance went into effect, we had 700 cesspools in town. Right now, we're down to 112. In Island Park and Portsmouth Park, this is DEM's area of concern, we now have 17. When I started in 2016, there were over 200 in those two neighborhoods. With regard to those 17, 15 of them currently have a valid DEM permit. And that's what this consent agreement requires. No longer does it require the town to ensure replacement, but it really just requires that we get people to the point where they have a DEM permit. And again, 15 of the 17 are already at that point.

So we... I think all mentioned this in the executive session. We'd like to thank you for getting this cart over the line. You did a fantastic job. You should be commended. And you have made all of our lives a lot easier. So we appreciate all you've done.

Thank you for that.

You want to see me cry, right? Is that what you're going to do?

So is there a motion to accept the consent agreement, not decree?

So moved.

Second. Any further questions, comments? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much for putting a 30-plus year headache behind us, hopefully. Appreciate it. Thank you. Todd, don't go anywhere.

No, I'm not going.

Because you're new business number six, too.

Stay right here.

So in order to help with these final systems, we need to extend a resolution to allow for the infrastructure bank to allow to lend more money.

That's correct. So we are just about out of our last round of funding. I spoke to Rhode Island Housing today. We've got seven applications still being processed. Once we get down to about two, we can apply for another round of funding. In order to do that, we need council approval of this resolution. And what that will then trigger is the finance director can then put an application into Rhode Island Infrastructure Bank for $3 million. Right. That will help over 100 people get their septic system cesspools replaced.

At a lower interest rate than going to the bank.

It's actually a finance charge that's not even an interest rate. Awesome.

Great. Mr. President, I'd like to make a motion to approve a resolution to continue the participation in the Rhode Island Infrastructure Bank Community Septic System Loan Program.

Second. Any further questions? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Again, Todd, thank you very much for all you've done.

Thank you all.

Now for the bad news. Police cars apparently cost $70,000 now. Chief. Well, that's two. Oh, yeah. Request to utilize funds for the emergency vehicle apparatus capital program in the amount of $169,501 to purchase two 2026 Ford Explorer vehicles. Chief Peters.

Tough intro, Chief. No pressure.

I think he said it all adequately, but police department's requesting those funds to purchase the two vehicles. We're looking at a timeframe which has moved up, which is great. It's probably between 10 and 16 weeks, and it'll be payable when they deliver it.

I just have a quick question. Sure. Are you retiring to or adding to an addition to?

No. So we'll be taking two of them out of service. So we have ones that we have one cruiser that's over two hundred and three thousand miles. And I know it's just been a lot of silent time.

Yeah.

Mr. President, motion to approve the request for the emergency vehicle apparatus cap from the emergency vehicle program.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes seven to zero. Thank you, Chief. On to Chief number two, who really wants to spend some money now. Discuss current pricing and options to replace the 2003 E1 tower ladder using public capital safety money. $1.7 million. $70,000 for a vehicle?

What's that?

I would think Peter's could pay for that on his own.

Good evening, Council President, members of the Council. As we've discussed in the past, we need a ladder truck. My goal when I first got here was to try to get it replaced by 23. Obviously, we haven't reached that. It is a 2003. It's beyond its life expectancy as a backup, and it's still frontline. I did come to you in February of 22, 2003, with a plan to go out and possibly look for a used apparatus. I talked to you about when you purchase a used apparatus, you have to be prepared to pull the trigger right away. It's not like ordering. It's on the lot one day or with the distributor one day, and we have to be ready. You did authorize me to go out and do that, and by the time we got out there, I personally went to Pennsylvania, reviewed a truck, The end of COVID had come about and the prices had started to skyrocket, as you know. So it wasn't feasible at the time what we were looking to spend. We need a new truck. We've gone out, done our duty with as far as creating specs, sitting with different manufacturers. And we have a couple of options. So the first option, and I put it in the packet to you, is we order the new truck. We pay it in full when the truck comes. It's a four-year build. And that option doesn't work right now, as you can see in the information I gave you. That very first year, we'd be severely in the hold financially. So we cannot, at this point in time, have that plan to pay it off. We could order new and in four years then do some sort of lease arrangement, spread the payments out over a couple of years. One of my big concerns with that is four more years with our 2003 truck. While we're waiting, we've committed to 1.7 plus million, and we have to make our truck last four more years. And that could be, we could have a catastrophic failure at any time. The next option, well, I actually put it before you, is to buy new and amortize it over the eight years. Our fund can handle that the way we're going right now. But again, that's the four-year thing that we have to wait. It's not a bad option. I'd love to buy new. The four years concerns me. And it's also a big chunk of money out of the fund. The other option would be to go out and start searching. I used a figure of a million dollars. I used that figure because in our recent searching, while we did see some 1.1, 1.4, I saw a very... Nice apparatus. It was $975,000. Built in 2018. I'm just giving you as an example because it could be gone at any time. But built in 2018, which is before we were impacted when the conglomerates got together and bought the manufacturers and things quality-wise went down. Only has 22,000 miles. It's a model that I am extremely familiar with and like. We could buy that truck tomorrow, have it in service in no time for $975,000. If you looked out at the spreadsheet I gave you, you can see the positive financial benefits on the fund over the next 15 plus years to do that. that in and of itself, we cannot afford at this point in time to drop all that cash on it. So I did put together with Kayla's help and information from the bank, an option of putting $200,000 down and then financing the 800 over four years. The fund can certainly handle it at that rate. I think it's a way to go. I like it. But I can't promise you I can find the truck tomorrow for $1 million. I can promise you that we'll do our due diligence, and I won't purchase something that I don't think is adequate for the town that we'll get another 20 years out of in that ballpark that will serve our community well. But I cannot give an exact price standing here at the podium, and that is one of the issues when you have to make these deals in an expeditious manner.

First and foremost, any concerns with buying something used and getting somebody else's headaches?

Sure. I would have that with any used vehicle I might purchase myself. I've been involved in several used purchases. I've been in fire apparatus. I've been involved in new. I would have it inspected by a reputable third-party inspection company. They go right through it, right down to having testing done on the transmission fluid, the oil they pull out of it. They do hundreds of checks. But you're right. You could be buying someone else's issues. We took delivery a year ago of a brand new truck, and it's been in the shop an awful lot of time. Quality control in the fire service manufacturing industry has gone way down. I get calls all the time from other chiefs. How are you making out with this? This is a nationwide trend. So I'm... Really not against getting a 2018, I'll call it pre-COVID truck. Anything else?

Well, the next question would be, we would have to give you a not to exceed number if you can't find a million. We'll call it 2 million. That's not. He's an optimist. I would make it more like 1.4.

I think something like that would be absolutely fine. I can't tell you just as another example of how pricing has changed dramatically. Chief Ty and I have been looking around. We found a truck brand new in Western Mass or right over the border in New York. Brand new. It doesn't fit in their garage, in their fire station. They paid 1.8 million. It's brand new, but it's available today. It's on sale for 2.4. They want 2.4 because they own it. It's right there. And somebody like us whose truck died is going to need that and pay the money.

Will it fit in our garage?

Yes, it will.

Oh. You're not getting 2.4.

I don't want that truck and I don't want to pay 2.4. I actually found another really nice one for 1.4 that has a salvage title because it hit a high tension line and fried the whole truck, but they fixed it.

I hope the firefighters were okay. All right. So just a quick question.

What would you do with the old truck?

Well, we always try to backtrack a little bit on that. I did come before the council. We tried when I was looking out, it used also to refurbish it along with one of the engines. And both of them went out to get quotes on them. And they were both sent back, said, don't waste your money on refurbishing these. We always try to sell what we have unless prudence really needs it. This wouldn't go over there. Looking around at trucks now, I don't think we could get more than $40,000, $50,000 for it, something like that. It's not worth much. Would we be better off just hanging on to it as a backup? Space becomes an issue. So, yes, that would be a great idea. The problem with that is I still have to maintain it to current standards, testing PMs every year.

So would 1.4 be a good number?

I think that would be an adequate number.

$200,000 out of the emergency infrastructure fund or apparatus fund, and then finance whatever the remainder is not to exceed $1.4 million. I think that would be a terrific point.

So moved.

Do you have an idea of the interest rate on the financing that you would be using?

The interest rate that I sent before you is... Was figured out at? Second. Am I answering? Yes. 4.32% was what was figured from the bank at those numbers I quoted.

Yeah.

And that would be all financed over time out of the apparatus fund? Correct. As everybody's aware. Okay. Any further questions? There's a motion and a second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Chief, thank you very much. Thank you. $1.7 million. All right. Correspondents, anything on there that anybody wants to pull off? If not, do we have a motion to receive and place on file? So moved. Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. seven to zero we have future meetings of august 24th september 14th and september 28th on the 24th we will be doing mr uh rayner's annual review i am going to hand you all um review packets if you could please fill them out bring them back to the clerk uh by next friday so that i can then consolidate them and do all the numbers and give averages and all that fun stuff. And then we'll have a discussion here in a week from this Friday. All right.

So a quick question on that is you said you'll review them, do all the numbers, and then do you send that back out to us? Yes. Thank you.

I'm going to pass three that way and three that way because I have the original. And then you also have the, in front of you, you were given a packet of town administrative reviews of our department heads. So you can see what he's thinking as he's doing his review. So we will do that in the executive session before the meeting. So plan on six o'clock for the 24th as well. And then we'll, Joe, how much time do you think you'll need for the 24th? 10 minutes?

No more than 15, 20, 15. That one item. I don't know what else will come up. Motion adjourned.

Second. All those in favor? Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes 7-0. Thank you all very much for coming out.