Westminster Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome everyone to the City of Westminster Historic District Commission. Tonight is Wednesday, April 4th at 6:00 PMish. a bit late waiting for a forum, but we're all here and we're all ready to begin with tonight's meeting. Um, as advertised, we're going to start with a quick roll call so you know who's here. Abby Batty, Christine McMasters, chair, Evan Wiseman, and our staff, Joe, Melissa Thorne.

Thank you very much. We're going to call ourselves to order with our statement of authority. The Westminster Historic District Commission derives this authority from chapter 164 article 9A of the city code which is authorized by the Maryland code editating land use article division 1 single jurisdiction planning and zoning title 8 historic preservation. The qualifications of the Westminster Historic District Commission are on file at the city administration building at 45 West Main Street and the file is open to the public. Thank you very much. Okay. Um, have you all had a chance to take a look at the minutes? Why don't we skip the minutes so we don't keep these folks waiting any longer and we can do that?

Okay. We can move on then to new business and I'm going to at least make them sit through this part because we have a new plaque coming up in town and it's going to be the Patriots plaque at the Westminster Cemetery. That commemorative marking is on Sunday, April 19th at 2:00. Um, this plaque came from the William G. Pomeroy Foundation and the Sons of the American Revolution of Westminster. So, um, everybody's invited. It's a free event. We will unveil this plaque. It honors three patriots, William Winchester, Henry N, and Caleb Stanbury. And, um, it should be fun to just kind of acknowledge that for our 250th. So, um, that's going to be April 19th at 2:00. All right. Next, we're going to go on to the facade improvement grants for 2026. We have six listed. We have folks here to talk about these applications, and I'm going to ask staff if they'd like to talk a little bit about the background of this grant and where we are today. I'm trying to transfer it to Joe and like, "Oh, are you sure?" Happy to talk. Um, the city applied for a grant um from the Department of Housing Community Development and we've been very blessed, I'll say, to have been able to receive um 140,000 this year and we're still finishing up um 150,000 um from last year. So, um, the city has funding to help with facade improvements, exterior public facing improvements for the city, and it's really fun to be able to give out money, especially in our department where we're often, you know, trying to dot the eyes and cross the tees. So, um, can't thank you enough for actually applying to the program, um, investing in downtown Westminster in the historic district. Um, so really we're here, um,

staff is here leazisoning. It's this board who ultimately decides with the state of Maryland what projects are eligible and and which um ones kind of rank um to have the most community impact. So that's what we're here to do tonight and um I think that about covers it. Yeah. Okay. So where we stand tonight is that we've taken a sneak peek at these applications. These six have made it. I don't I don't know what the total pool of requests were.

Yeah. So, you know, you're in the top 50%. And um it with our sneak peek, we did have a few concerns or suggestions. And um I trust that staff got back to all the applicants to revise those requests just to make sure it's as sharp and as acceptable as possible. Um the next step is it goes on to the state. It's not just our decision. Hopefully, they won't revisit all 11 applications. They'll just look at these six and they'll agree with us. And I'd like to say most of the time the state does that. Most of the time the state does that.

So, Madam Chair, uh just a little background, we did send them down to MHT. They have reviewed them. Um and the six that we are talking about, they're okay with. Um I'm trying to think of the last one. um for the roof replacement about the architectural sink shingles, but I can get back to you on that one. Um I think the best way to improve or to move through this is move through these one by one. Um I can give a free background on what's going on with the property. You can ask the property owner, I emailed them all the concerns that you all had, so they should have those answers ready for you. And I think for sake of efficiency, I hate to say we probably should make a motion for each one. Um because some of the projects um the funding the amount requested was a little um there there was a range. We didn't know which um bid they were going with. So I think it'd be better to move through each one individually and make a motion. Right.

So, just to give you a little behind the curtain thing, when we talk about the state, we're talking about the Maryland Historic Trust under their um housing and development department. It's a mouthful. Department of Housing and Community Development. Yeah.

HCDs in in Annapolis. So, it's funds that are committed to us. There's no ifands or buts. We won. Not all funds are like that. This one we want. So, we know we have it. And um I'm going to take Joe's advice and work through these one by one. So, let's And these are ranked in numerical order. They're not ranked in the highest score. It's just the the way that the applications were submitted. Good. You don't have to be sweating who's finished. That's right. Well, let's talk about 59 West Main Street Painting and Gutters. Who's got that one? Stand or sit?

Oh, sit. Okay. I just want to I just just stay there. And I mean, back in the council, they be the stand. Yeah. Anyway, let that be his name. Thank you for Oh, I was going to say Joe's going to do your overview and then you're here to answer any questions.

Yep. So, this is um 59 West Main Street. Um it's the property right down from our municipal annex building. Uh they're requesting painting and gutter work. Um they did talk about a phase two, but that would be for a later time. And the phase two that they were talking about at that time was the uh addition to the front. So we did submit this to MHD. Uh they didn't have any issues with this whatsoever. So tonight we have Mr. Yes. Who are you? I am Mark Snder. I'm with Mr. Property Man. I'm representing the travel can't be here. Okay.

The owner is Miss Sarah Nakis. Um, you know, local family that's been around forever. If you ever hot dog, um, notwithstanding that, um, the request is predicated upon a first step. Um, when the owner acquired the building, they hired me uh to because it is a mixeduse building. There's two business spaces below which have not been utilized and haven't been utilized for some time. has that absolutely atrocious looking front to the building. I mean, it's horrible. Uh, acknowledged, no problem. And then it has four residential units. So, the first motion and the first move of the owner was to stabilize the building by populating renovating and populating those units to create the income flow as opposed to carrying the elephant. Um, and that's what they did. We did what was necessary and required to have that fur. But again, the painting is like the first step. Um, it's like itching towards the the finish line. The objective of the owner is to do a complete renovation to bring it back in proximity to what it appeared like. Um, probably the best part of a 100 years ago, which is really interesting. I don't know if you have that picture, the old ancient picture of it. I don't have it ready here.

But what's really crazy is if you looked at a a turn of the century picture, when I say turn of the century, I don't mean 1990, okay? But you look at the turn of the century picture, there's actually three steps where you actually stepped up into the building.

So apparently the street has risen over the years, but the intent is to completely redesign the front of the building, bring it back to what more of its original glory. And there's one of the original hotels that was in Westminster. We would know it as back in my day it was Betty's Kitchen. It was the Montour House. It was Fans restaurant where cats stayed away. Uh and then it was an insurance office for some time. But the intent is not to renovate the the intent is the next step is not to renovate the commercial space to have that prepared but to do that in conjunction only with the complete facade. So that's very wise to break things into chunks because sometimes as you get into things you realize uh oh this is a higher priority than I thought or this is more than I thought and so breaking it into chunks is a great idea.

All right. Do any of our commissioners have any questions about the Montour House application? Um I just in listening to him speak I noticed that the property owner's name is not listed on this. It's got the the business and the applicant's name. The property owner's name is different from a that way. It's Kim Sarah the owner. I guess technically the owner of the building is not the individual but the LCO or some the applicant's not the owner and probably the own for moving ahead. Y that's something that can be adjusted.

And the other thing I noticed is that there's just a typo and it lists it as 58 West Main Street. And I was a little confused when I got 258 West Main Street. So now pictures are like Madison, so we just fixed that typo on the application. Yeah. All right. I was a little confused about how you got to the $20,000 project budget. Sure. I no problem sharing that. We got We actually got three bids. The third bid never found itself on paper. So we did not include that bid. We had one large bid, one bid that was way out of line, $4ome,000.

Yeah. to paint which when I pick myself back up the floor off the floor. Uh then we have a bid for 165 and that's from Protek Al Talson a very competent and capable painting company and we I've gone a job with them where they bring the cranes in and so forth and so on. The additional cost are associated with managing the roof water. And what happens if you were to go on the alley side, let's say, of that building, you'll see a really long PVC pipe that comes down the side of that building that's it's there, but it's not functional.

And it's basically breaking out the mortar and everything within the building itself because that lot actually, ironically, as it may seem, tilts back. So you can't just dump the water at the back of the building and have it flow out through the storm drain system. You literally have to replace that. And if that's not part of the deal, basically you want to paint the building within three years the paint bear off. So that's the very bad for the brick and the mortar as well. As a matter of fact, I used to be part of a group that would recommend that those downspouts be moved every once in a while because they create a stress point, but usually those stress points are so ugly, nobody wants to move them, so they just leave them at that stress point and they just get worse.

So, there's no winning with the house. There's no winning. No. So, that's how we got to the we there was an estimate of $3,500 to manage the and and install a management system that would take the water away and not compromise the the new paint. And did you submit that bid as well? Uh that was I submitted to the owner and the owner just included that in the local question. Well, we should actually see that bit should be included.

It should be included if I can. I know they say it was nice very on but it's about three in my I I will sounds good right make that additional sounds good okay well I'm good all right anything else on this Okay. So, um with a down spout, you'll be replacing it with

we'll replace it with a probably a PVC or white product. That's why it really holds up first. It's a little bit dense. Yeah. And then we painted the same color as the building. That's why it needs to be installed before we paint the building. So, it all blends in. So the kind of black will just meld into the It won't be any white, you know, zebra stripe coming down the side or racing stripe. And it's currently PVC. It's currently PVC. Sounds good. Wait,

how is that okay with PBC? It's not galvanized. We I think we want to be original that puppy would be giz before us about how an albino s we would say no when we what we usually say right now is replacing kindest to what you see today. what say is not what was true.

I'm just saying if you both want to pass it fine with me then but I think we have to be realistic to our but I could be wrong. Yeah, I think I think we usually recommend replacing the same material and kind in general. And although this does seem a little odd PVC for PVC, I think that's consistent.

It would never have been PBC. It would have always been ground like PBC 100 years later. If if we went to the original on that because of the way the topography has changed with the building the water wouldn't drain t as I said earlier you know ironically I said how the street has risen the lot actually lays back and so originally those those um gutters if they were actually even on the original building frankly u would have been galvanized but they would have come down straight down and it would have drained out to the street. But unfortunately, topography doesn't allow that. Um, now that doesn't say that galvanized can't be run the entire length of the building. I would just share that from a construction side, the durability of the product is more problematic. Taking galvanized such a long distance, you'd be taking galvanized best part of 100 ft. We'll see. Just as a matter of interest, the Abian, if you look at historic photos, it's lost a half a story because of the street change in that part of the towns. I think something really drastic happened with the railroads. I'm not sure what, but the street topography is entirely different even though the buildings have moved.

Well, in many cases, the sidewalks were raised to eliminate stoops coming in. I know that that happened like at the Shelman house that originally was two steps in there, but the sidewalk was raised to eliminate that. So, I think that's part of what you're seeing on some of the buildings that look like they got shortened that the sidewalks have been raised for accessibility reasons. All right. Well, let's take this under advisement. We'll talk about our approach and we'll do that after the meeting. I mean, uh later on as a later point in the meeting. That sounds good. We're gonna talk about the gutter systems. Yeah. Do you want to

I think you'd like to resolve it before we move on to the next one. How do you feel about it? I would prefer galvanized, but since PVC is there, I'm okay with placing PVC for PVC. If the galvanized were there and they were saying we want to take galvanized off and put PVC in, I'd have a problem since PVC is there. It wouldn't be my preference, but I think there's a problem doing Yeah, I think that's consistent with what we usually tell people is replace and kind. And so I personally don't find that PVC so offensive, especially if it's painted and camouflaged below.

It will be over the alley side of the building. Do we need to take some kind of vote on this? Um yeah, we need a vote after each one. And uh the applicant is still requesting 10,000 uh for a $20,000 total project. That's that is correct. The request is for the $20,000 as amended. will submit the $3,500 bid for the for the PBC as I did to the office to send a copy. Send a copy to them. Great. So, did you want to give us the motion you want to hear from your minutes? Joe on this one.

Y these formalities. I I would recom uh the motion would be approval of FI260259 West Main Street for the facade improvement grant for $10,000 for painting and PVC cutters. There a motion to that effect also move. Is there a second? Second. I can second. I guess I will. All in favor? I opposed. tiebreaker. It passes. Okay. Um 58 West Main Street.

Yes, ma'am. This is 58 West Main Street. Um the total project cost is 14,500. The request of course is for it should be 7,27,750. Sorry about the typing on that. And this is basically for masonary repairs on the front of the building, including the steps. And the applicant wants to place a sealer, I believe, on the bottom portion of the building. Is there anyone here from the house? Good evening.

So, my name is Ben Yingling. I am representing uh my dad actually owns the building. So, to your point, if I need to correct the application, u I'm happy to do that. So, uh, look, the hair house was built in 1883. Uh, so you're talking what's that 142 years old. Uh, dad has done a really impressive job in my opinion of like keeping that maintained very well. It's beautiful building. Uh, and the the where the sidewalk meets the brick is severely deteriorated. Uh, we don't know the extent of the deterioration. So I know there were two questions that you had about this uh proposal. One was about I think it was the the type of uh material to be used for the grouting like the line material

the mortar. Yeah the mortar uh and certainly I can get some sort of documentation that and and ensure that that would be uh be used uh on as a condition of this moving forward. Uh and then the other part I know you had mentioned about the differences in bids. Oh yeah, got two bids, two reputable firms. Um I the difference in bids, and look, I'm not a contractor. I don't claim to be one, unlike a lot of people in this room. Uh but you know, I'm in a business where quality matters. And if you have a 142-y old building uh that has brick, you know, I don't want somebody to come in there and try to put like a discolored brick or, you know, do it halfhazard because then I'm just going to be coming back here and asking you for money to repair it in another two years. So, uh if you notice the actual bids itself, uh one is I think like a threeline bid, you know, three three or four bulletproof bid. Uh and the other one is much more robust in what is actually going to be taking place. So that's why I selected the higher bid. Uh also I would say I mean not knowing the extent of the damage uh could impact you know how much it would cost. So I do believe that the bid selected might be taking that in consideration. So I don't know what the process is where like if we only need to spend x amount of money uh you know how that's reimbured but

I can explain to you a little bit if you hit the max um and you're intent on getting the rest of your costs credited towards this tax credit. You have to stop and ask us if that change in expansion of scope or funds is okay. it stop and now what if it's low comes in lower like like then you only get the low the low that's fine. Okay. So I I do believe like I'm not exactly sure. I mean construction could be a little uh but there's a lot of unknowns. So I would say that would be my explanation for Can I interrupt? I'm so sorry. You're actually referring to our tax credit program. Oh yeah.

This is totally different. What number you leave today is the max. And if your project ended up coming in less, you'd only get 50% of that. Yeah, understandable. That's fine. Understood. So, um, but what if they go over? There's nothing because Yeah, that's on the for that one. Sure. Absolutely. Right. posting. Yeah, I mean it would make sense for me to take, you know, a higher bid that, you know, because we have a little more uncertainty in what we're getting into than to take the lower bid that one isn't as clear on what they're actually going to be doing and then, you know, me hold the bag. So, that that was I hope that addresses both questions.

Yeah, there's no requirement for a little bit. Sure. Yeah. Uh, go ahead. So, I know you have it in the packet. Who are the two best? Uh, AJ Duga Contracting and then Bruce Mer. And you chose Bruce. No, I actually chose AJ Duga Contracting. Okay, thank you. I think you got any questions?

Uh, no, that was my question. I mean to be honest um I have worked with mower they're an excellent contractor so I wouldn't be concerned about that but it is your right to choose the contract that you want. Sure. And you make sure that I I know that Muller can manage the line more. Oh that's good to know that I'll certainly go back to the other contractor and and and just explore that more as we revise. Yeah, the the mortar mix is um there's a commercially available double O standard mix you can purchase.

So it's not like something that has to be done by a chemist and it's uncertain as to how long it'll stand up. The hard part is matching the color. Thing is you don't want mortar that's different. And one thing I have in my own house is when you get mortar repaired, there's going to be good five years that it's going to always look off, right? Until the acid f gets to it and then it looks like everything else. But there's at least 5 years it's going to look ucky. And you just have to live with it because if you match it to exactly what you have today, in five years,

it's going to look awful. It's going to look actually, you know, darker or so. Um, it's very similar to trying to touch up paint that's been on there for 10 years. It's never gonna match perfectly. It's never gonna match. Yeah. Again, I mean, I know Muller has done work for us as well on this building. Uh, I just in terms of scope and the time I spent uh, you know, I would rather give some flexibility. Uh, you know, so that that's kind of why I chose it. Certainly, if that's a deal breaker. being off and doesn't work out. I'll come back in two years and ask for more money.

Hopefully, we haven't. No, it's it's it's your choice. You start with the choice, you know. That's fine. Once once we walk away. Understand. So, do we have a motion, Joe, that we'd like to hear? Yes. SP would be making a motion for approval of FI 2603 58 West Main Street. The total cost of the projects 14,500. the applicants requesting 7,250 and I believe the condition that you want to place on that is that you use appropriate order to double up if I'm not mistaken. Sure. But I put that in writing however do we have that motion? I'll make a motion with acceptance.

And Kevin, did I catch you off for discussion because this is a good time before we vote. No further discussion with a friend. Zipp right by you, Kevin. And that's fine. Um, all right. So, all in favor? Post. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Nobody's stuck here. If you want to leave, you can leave. Move right up. My lovely wife. I will tell her I handed out these things. We'll definitely do that. Give you a note as to why you're late. Communicating with her. So, she has to

she can text me. We know. All right. Let's move on then to 143 West Main Street. Yes, ma'am. This is and 143 West Main Street, which is package 07. And tonight, who do we have? David Johansson, Senior. Um, Davidson. All right, we're gonna ask Joe to um fill us in. What do we got here, Joe?

Yes, ma'am. Uh it's 143 West Main Spa Main. Um the total cost for the project is 62,500. The request is for 31,250. Got my math right on it. Um and they want to replace their roof and they want to replace it with architectural shingles. We did get comments back from the Maryland Historical Trust and they did not raise a concern over the architectural uh shaping. With that, I'll turn it over to you for Great. Yeah, that was one of the things I was most concerned about. May I ask you a question? It says right here it says as far as they said they didn't like the architectural uh

simulated slate. Yeah, just we want the simulated slate because that's the only thing that's going to look right on that building. And you were out there with us off the Yeah. And that's why we didn't bring any pictures because you're guy you're not your female in charge rather. Uh but we can't get you pictures for your your follow. I went and did a preview and I didn't find any problem with them at all and I'm just glad that the trust didn't pick up of us. Right. Okay, great. Yeah. And and to clarify, we actually received an email back just today that gave it the thumbs up. Okay. There was no um how do they word it adverse?

Yeah. Nothing would be adverse about this to a historic building. So yeah, it's it's an actual can I take point of privilege? Calling something adverse means it damages the historic district. Okay. And so what would be adverse? Let's say somebody downtown decided to have a Spanish mission with red bright tiles in a Mediterranean paint situation and and ability inside. I mean, it looked like it was straight from the Mediterranean. That wouldn't be it would not look like Westminster's historic district. It would be adverse. And even if you tried to make it look old, fake, you know, add like shadows and make it look historic, it doesn't help the historic district. It's not Westminster.

Okay. So that's considered adverse. Um I'm not sure if you said it or we received something about doing a historic thing here in Westminster or some kind of tour or some something. Uh that's one of the few houses that was called a carnival house. I mean a parade house. Parade house. Because everybody went on that roof. That's why the door there and watch the paradise. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. You know, I think it's pretty, you know, I will agree with you that slept in in that house. Yeah. So, we're going to watch somebody's house.

Yes. Where I watch the parade. All right. Pulling us back to the table since I derailed us entirely. Let me see. Do we have um any questions, Kathy? Um, no. I guess Kevin, are we ready for a motion from Joe? I do this partly because they take the minutes and I don't want the lawyer to say I didn't put the motions in the right way with the right aonsus. You know, it's got to be the right emphasis on the city. So,

and I am not a lawyer. Um, so with that, the motion should be approval of FI2607143 West Main. The request from the applicant is for $31,250 to replace the roof with simil EPDM slate shingles. Thank you. Do we have a motion? Somebody willing to move motion. What does that second? Yeah. Okay, I'll second. All in favor? Any opposed? All right. So, that uses

Thank you very much and we'll see you the next time for the other. You know, sometimes I show up on these job sites. We all live within a half mile of each other. You don't know who's going to show up and say, she'll be drawing a letter. Yeah. I've been told by city staff I've got permute permission to look on projects and I've been told by city staff you can get to that and it's like you're right I can't thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Bye. All right, we're moving on. We're moving on to 83 West Main Street.

Yes. This is 83 West Main that Esquire and Lady. Um this is actually a project uh that comes in at 5200. The applicants requested 2600. This is to uh prevent future water damage and repair existing water damage. The building is having an issue with water coming in and they believe it's coming in because the uh the porch roof is not flashed to the building. And then once when you get inside, uh, the pictures are right there. They show a little bit of damage of the water inside. I'm making a face. Can you tell? Yeah. I have a comment.

Like, sorry, girl. Yeah. So, anyway, getting back to the thing. Anyway, they they're repairing the roof uh repairing the bricks to reduce water infiltration into the building. I would just like to add that I think the quote should change. Was it an 8,000 quote? Yeah. Okay. Do you have information on that now with you? I have been an email, not Okay. And it should be in the packet as well if you have the name of the contractor.

Yes. Uh so I have two. One was Sheldon Sun. was 4,000 something. But of course, both of them it to find the you the water damage to try to alleviate that. Um the one contractor which I I know I've been referred he's been referred to me um uh his his is a little over 8,000 but he he thought about you know the po the roof and I've been there 36 years. So that roof is has been there since I've been there. So I don't know how long it's been there. The little portrait so it has to be flashed um and um maybe I guess you know do the cocking all the to try to seal around that area.

Are you the owner? I am the owner. Yes. But only for six years now. So I' I've started working there when I got out of high school. And for the name is Mine's Tina and Earl Brewer had it originally in 1990. Yeah. So yeah. So you've only been out of high school six years. So can we I have it 8,000 but you cent higher. What is the price been now?

Okay. The mine has always been. So the Alfred um is 8,862. That's with the porch repair, the flashing uh around the w the the top of the the windows at the top of the uh the little porch there. We actually had a hole in the brick there and I was getting the water in in the interior wall. There was a hole in the brick. So I kind of tried to plug it up but now I have water on the inside. So it it's it's around the window

the roof area. Um so he suggested roofite fixing or you know replacing and sealing all that around that area to help eliminate the uh the water going from the inside. Just a hint. Look at the sills. Sometimes over time they shift. So they're literally draining water in. Okay. And they're supposed to be tilted outward. So the water gets shoved off. Take a good look at those silts because sometimes, you know, they get rotted and Yeah. And with the weight of the window, they get tilted in. So take a good look and see if it shouldn't be retilted out. Okay. Check it out, too.

Okay. Um, and from what I see, it's just bad. Water is so damaging. It's just a little bit. You really can't have water and coming in the building and invest in anything else. Got you just roof proof. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm guessing for the 8,000. So, the request is,862. The request for the grant would be 4,431. And just as information, this was the highest rated grant application. I can see why. Yeah, I know. It would have been my number one too. In fact,

she's roof roof roof. You know, that's just the problem that water you can you can dress up all kinds of things. I know the building. Well, when I moved here 42 years ago, I worked at the bar Angelos for a while and got my Mus money for engagement.

So I saw the pictures. I said, "Oh, well that has to my number one. You did the good job on that." My closet still has the uh stairs that would have that did go into that building. Yeah. So, Kevin, do you have any questions at this? How about you, Miss Kathy? Um, I have one question about why they're repairing the brick with caul rather than water.

Uh, I can I can ask. I'm not I'm not sure. It's painted. So, I I don't I don't know. I I I just go by them. I don't I don't know. Yeah. I would I would want to hear that, too, to be honest. Usually mortar fixes are better long term. Okay. Cop at a limited time. Plus, it looks funny. Yeah. I I don't know if he meant maybe around the the porch area or I'm not sure. I say point up masonry holes with caul. Oh, okay. And that's what I if a contractor's not used to dealing with the store structures. Okay.

That's what they'll do. Okay. Um so you might suggest that and it should be a significant cost different. Okay. It's just a scale difference. I mean, pour it in a little cup is one thing. Fixing mortar is a little harder. Okay. Takes a little more skill. Yeah. I tried it once in my house.

I can still see the spots I tried to fix. And that was 20 years ago. All righty. Do we have any other questions? Are we ready to go to Joe? And at the words of it, the perfect motion.

So, uh, approval would be for FI26083 West Main. Uh, the request is for 4,431, which is half of the cost of the project. Um the only condition would be the uh the using masonry instead of caulking for the uh small mortar repairs. Do I have a lead on this motion? Somebody like to move this second. All right. We've been moved and seconded to for approval with this technical change. And do we have any other comments? Hearing none. All in favor? I.

No oppos. Thank you very much. Thank you. So, move on to the state. All righty. I love fixing water damage. Okay. We're moving on to 61 East Main Street. They have awning replacement. Is there anyone here from 61 East Maine? I don't believe so. Okay. Well, then I'm not going to say we have just Joe, but we're going to start with Joe. What do you got for us? Joe, do you want to go to the next one? Yeah. Do you think they're coming? I don't know.

All right, we can move on to two bond street painting shades of gray. All right, Joe, will you give us the overview? I know these folks. Great job on the sidewalk. Just just I will visit any place anywhere in the historic district. As a matter of fact, if you give me half an invitation, I'll show up for for

So, this is for two Bond Street. Uh the total cost of the project is 25,000. The applicants requesting half, which would be 12,05. Um, and basically the applicant wants to paint the entire building, paint the wood trim and doors and um, it's a large building and it's sits right on the corner. Uh, it was reviewed by the trust and the trust had no problems with them.

This is true. the spinal dramatic ones did a nose must look too good. I'm like, let me go on Google images and back this to you. This is so terrible. But when I was getting out of the car, I said to myself, there's really nothing they can do that would be fast. Has it already been dried on Exactly. She was like, "Well, I'm like, no, says you guys win in that game." How is that know what that building was? I

think I read about it, but tell me again, was it a hotel? No. A Okay, great. All right. Is um Do you have any questions, Miss Kathy? Um, I mine was not cuz I didn't have the complete application in mind. So, I don't know if that's just my set that didn't have it or all I got was the one page with the project description. That's

everybody's or I got I got the coffee. Okay. So, they did complete the full application. Yes, they did. Okay. That was kind of my question. Um I'm curious. I mean, I assume from your comments that the signage is going to disappear. All those really interesting signs all over the building.

That's why I was like, nobody's going to even recognize it as much from your reaction. So, that's good to know. You want me TO BRING IT BACK? I fine. That's okay. You actually have to go there and stand there in person to see how bad it really is. It's worth it. Grab a coffee. Stand outside real loud. Shades of gray genie birds and just look at it's easy for us for me as a historical person to like avert my eyes, you know, car accident. We don't want to see it. And that's that that's you know when I really focus it's like oh yes. All right Kevin do you have any questions?

No. Are we ready for a toast magic motion? Yeah. So I would recommend approval of FI 2610 to Bond Street. Uh the applicant is requesting half of the total project which is 12,500 and this is to paint the entire building in wood trim and doors. Do I have a someone to make that motion? Do I have a second? All right. No more conversation. We won't keep insulting these boards. You sound like it. It doesn't sound like we're at all grateful.

It shouldn't. We were supposed to be the nice person. Somehow we broke fair tonight. So all with a rousing eye. There you go. Yes. We really want this done. It didn't sound like it. Please, please tell other business owners who are not horrible. We're not telling you what color to do stuff. We're not we're not cracking down on every edge and corner. But would you tell it was rag dust? Going to be a little more quick, you know. my frame. Yeah. All right. So, we have nothing left but

Yeah. Well, so for uh 2609, Melissa and I were talking, we recommend that you would continue that project so that the uh propagator Okay. All right. All right. You can we can hold that off till next month. Yes. All righty. We will do that. So, we had five out of six approved tonight. Yes, ma'am. And um we want to thank you all for being here. You can stay here. We don't have much left to go. Um actually kind of a couple interesting topics yet on the agenda. And if you want to say we welcome we we see so few public people. We're like we're not meeting or anything. Yes.

All righty. So our next item is the historic district commission implementation plan. And Melissa and I will tag team on this. Um, have to say we are now just getting into the data collection. The contractor wanted to get out there and just for some of you who maybe haven't heard about this, um, we're starting to relook at our historic documentation for TA. Our national registered district is almost 50 years old and that means the documentation is that old. So some of the buildings are literally gone from that project. that project was kicked off by the bicesentennial home and so sort of as an homage to the 250th we're redoing that documentation and um I have to say it's been a lot of fun thinking about the history of downtown Westminster and getting these contractors who are from um all over Maryland. their specialist in looking at this kind of national register documentation and um pointing out to them some of the cool things we've learned about this for a district in the 50 years. Um one thing you may not have known was very famous architect um did some of the exterior and interior work of the United um the Westminster United Methodist Church. And if you've ever said to yourself, why does that church look a little funny on the outside? Well, it looks a little funny inside because this was a two cup and knees very famous modern sculpture who did this work. And so in some ways you say, that feels a little funny, but in other ways it's among his signature work, George Nakashima. Oh yeah, he's his workshops on the national landmarks. He's a really famous guy. So the church had that done. Now there was a lot of controversy

afterwards. Didn't really fit, but we figured out, you know, why that building looks so strange. And there's a way to celebrate that. Frankly, master quick sculpture work inside and outside. I know architectural historian who is not a fan of the renovation.

I know them, too. But um I actually got some want me to make arrangements for them to have a a door. So, it's something to say. Um, we're looking at some other things that we didn't really think about first time around. I wasn't here first time around. It was highly architectural. This is going to concentrate much more on the context of the community. So, we're going to include what we know about Great Tim. We're going to include what we know about other ethnicities like Irish Town. and we're going to include um information that might be fun for each homeowner um if they'd like to interpret it for their site. One of the biggest things right now is that there is existing documentation on most of the historic district, but it's hard to get at. We want this touch touch easy through the city. So all you have to do is put your address in and the history should pop right up so you can see and share the stories of your um property. For example, Mr. Yingling's property was the hair carriage company and some pretty famous carriages were designed. Wasn't that the one for the rural um delivery system? The free world delivery system.

Uh they made a designed by driver but I think it was actually built at that location. that woke us up. So anyway, he that story wouldn't be able to be told with the documentation collected. We're looking at much more maps and we're actually sent a letter out last week letting people know this is what we're doing, taking fresh pictures of every property before the leaves come in and we will be looking for people to share their stories about their historic structures. So it should be fun. Now, Melissa, what do you you want to talk about the public meeting?

Yeah, not too much to add, just that there is a public meeting. Um, it's Thursday, April 23rd, um, from 6:00 to 7:30. We're going to be closing out exploration comments that evening. Um, and really, we'll we'll just have it'll the mayor will be there. Um, we'll be there and it'll just be an opportunity for the consultant to kind of go through initial findings, too, from what they've already done. So, and we're hoping to collect some stories from the public. Um, what was this building used for? You know, a little more history to add to like like Chris chair just said. So, yeah, I know what you look the old guy said that you good. Take care.

So, that's we are planning and improving our public service of history, handing history back to the people who actually own it. Yeah. All right. So, let's move on to the nation's 250th anniversary. And the city has been quietly behind the scenes doing a lot of new stuff. And um I guess one thing we might want to talk about is the entry sign. Um we have how many do we plan? Six. We did. So, um the the slide up here I have is is referring to the street signs. Um but the entry sides I was actually going to propose we wait till next year to do

because um we're at like $25,000 budget right now like for everything we have proposed and that doesn't even include those signs. Not to mention so phase two we have just installed um East Main Street pretty far up at South Colonial Street um is where the entrance is um coming in from the east and then west is at Unionville Road. Um really nice signs. Uh we would like to add a reflective material probably to the next rendering, but north and south um Liberty Street and Railroad Avenue. So that partially stateowned, so it might take a little extra hoops to jump through. Um so it's it's kind of in my opinion, it should be like our next year project. Um however, it is it is important and we do have a plan for it. So I'm going to say that

before you go on. So, this is to answer when people say, "I didn't even know I had a house in the historic district." We're putting it on the major thorough affairs to have your entry. You're entering the historic district. So, people know, and frankly, when they buy a house, they know they've stepped into something a little different. Yes. So, there's no no magic that you need to know. You'll know by the signs. So, that's that's the main entryways. six main entryways to town. We've got two of them already. So, if you're on East Main Street and you're thinking about how much is gas at that gas station, is the light going to be green? Oh, look at that cool entrance sign in this drug district.

Okay,

it is exciting. Um, yep. So, as part of the sign project too, we're looking at um the the top two signs, if you can see on the screen, are existing signs. Um, and uh they they are originally state signs. Now, the city has actually taken over all of those signs. Um, we're going to avoid Route 27. Um, however, um, like Center Street, Washington Road, we're going to just update them, have a black, uh, excuse me, a brown background, white markings, so that it'll it'll become more of a visual thing when you're when you're downtown. That's also a phased project. So, that our our historic district's huge. Um, so it's it's it's quite an expense. So, just kind of working on those slowly. And then, um, the bottom two are actually Tony Town. um photos and the these types of signs are used in a lot of other American cities. So, we like the uh this look with the pineapple on the top and the the swirls on the bottom. So, this is what we are we're still um like we have identified and we have gone back and forth with the contractor on exactly what we're looking for. So, the scope's been narrowed down to this. Um so, we're excited. The goal is to purchase those this month. Um and

any any kind of motion today? Um, I don't think so. I don't think so. You selected those, right? You did. Yeah. So, this is really just a project update. And so, what's exciting is again, these are going only in the historic district. Historic district is very linear. It's mile long, but it's chopped up by a million cross streets and it's only like one, two streets. Green Street's definitely in Main Street and a little bit of Winter's A. So, it does require a lot of signage and it's going to help the public know when we're in or out of the historic district.

Okay. So, we'll move on to uh the downtown preparations. Um this one is a really neat um I'm gonna pick on you, Kathy, and you know exactly the date of that photo. Is it the 18? No, that one was actually called homecoming week in Westminster and I think it was in connection with Memorial Day. They were inviting people to come back to their hometown and I think there's one that's 1910 and one that's 1912. So it's it's early 20th century image. Um and there are a couple of others that that's in the collection of the historical society. And there are a couple of others where they've really they've even got pull downs that say welcome. Oh,

okay. Yes. So, we have um this desire to see at least something patriotic uh explode here in the historic district. So, um we have we're going to be opening our two contests. We talked at this level about a residential contest. So, we're adding as a part of this the business contest. So, the plan um we've discussed you guys already um going out on flag day or thereabouts because scheduling, you know, um to have that. So plan is to open this up next week with um final registration by June 10th, giving people up to the last minute to decide they want to be in the contest. Um there is a prize of $250 plus a beautiful gift basket filled with goodies because we want to be small town, you know. Um and then second prize is $150. So so something something to say thank you and great job. And essentially it's really just the best overall patriotic display first and second. So category for residential and a category for business. Now opportunity to change any of the details um tonight if you're if you're like want to anything but other than that try to keep it simple.

Yeah. Oh it sounds great. And I will say a big part of this on flag day kind of celebrating 250th so that it's already up and ready to go for the 4th of July. Nobody wants to be putting stuff up on the morning of the 4th of July then you know that's going to be computer paper. You know whatever goes up on flag day is going to be cloth that's going to be sort of maybe stick through the summer. Yeah.

Okay. Um, we also have um we have great renderings we kind of put together. I didn't include any of these. Um, but we're also like the city we're purchasing bunting and banners so that we're decorating our own buildings. Um, the image that you see is actually um Carol County is giving each municipality one of the banners. It's like a 3x6 foot um and they're asking us to put it on our municipal building. So, we're all the same in that respect. We're very excited um to be decorating the armory, Carol Arts Center, our city administration building, city hall, and we will have a long banner on both police and streets department buildings. So that um again, it's it's just all the little details I'm kind of stuck in right now, making sure that we're just not arbitrarily spending and it's actually has a plan to it and then we're getting the appropriate costs um that. So,

yay. Anything being done to decorate the courthouse? I know that's not a city building, but can we coordinate with them? Um, we'll have to talk to the county on that one because it's theirs. Yes. Um, can't see why not. Ask them to help them. They The only thing that I'm aware of the county is doing is they also have So, they're going to be putting one of those banners on their main city, I'm sorry, county building. Yes. And also in the parking lot, they have a plan for similarly branded. I don't think it has the all of that in the background. celebrate with us on their land posts. Yeah. Do you want to talk about this? Yes.

Okay. So, um Kathy provided us a list of buildings and I will say that they're not 100% Revolutionary War only. I consider the Revolutionary War to go through the War of 1812 because the British were still coming after us. So we kind of finished it in the early 1800s and we got what 30ome buildings. Well, I actually So the latest rendition that I have is only 12. So if we could do some homework and double check that listing. I'll double check. Yeah. Yeah. Go back because the one I I went ahead and did find the property owners contact information. Good.

Um one of them is East Coast by the way. Look alive. I know.

So, we'll talk about this, but essentially the plan is uh we've got a letter drafted and if we happen to have a contact number or email, like we'll reach out to you personally it um and this could even change from tonight to when we send the letter out. um because a a few of the so the idea is that we're offering this program um giving the opportunity for these homeowners, resident owners um I'm sorry, property owners if they'd be interested in um being a part of our program and putting this on their on their building. Now, I did speak with the streets department and they're not interested in installing understandably. Um, even with the waiver, they're like, "No, it's best to just let the homeowner, if they're interested, putting that on themselves." Um, there were five properties that were not located within the historic district. So, if that's the case, this plaque doesn't apply at all. So, I'd love us to to double check this one.

All right. Let's and make sure we're on the same page. Yeah. Yeah. Because thing is that um you know William Winchester's house was not in the city and yet we felt like we wanted to include it and Brooks Mill I think was another one we looked at and the Durban house.

Yeah. So, we wanted to include it because they are important colonial structures. I mean, of all things, but they're not actually in the district. But we thought like, well, we could kind of make waver to give away, you know, there's just so few buildings that are going to get this sign and it'll be nice bronze permanent, you know, recognition that like, hey, you know, something was here during, you know, the early days, right? So, if I could request u maybe a a Zoom call next week. Yes. Okay. Like a workshop? Yes. Okay. All right. Great. Anything else? Melissa, get a zip. Um also requesting.

Thanks for having us.

You too. Also requesting assistance with our May's preservation month to really make that exciting this year and actually involve the public through our two social media channels. Um, so having coming up with three posts per week and a few stories, I would love to do a takeover. So it's all about history for the month of May. To be honest, we just have Downtown Westminster Facebook, Westminster Mland page, and then our Instagram page with um downtown and um I believe this is the last no almost. Um a plaque for our Liberty Tree. Yes, we need to get on that because I hate to say this, other liberty trees are getting parties. And I don't want us to be the 15th Liberty Tree in the area that nobody cares about because the parties have already happened. So, we've had our Let's Let's just be honest. We've had our Liberty Tree for a while, but we were afraid it would die over the winter. So, we weren't going to tell anybody. He pulled through, though. Make sure it lived.

It's funny. It's it's funny. All right. So, yep. Um, Union Mills has one. They haven't been mentioned and everything and neither have we, but sometimes it's it's okay. So, right now the current the current buzz for Liberty Trees has actually draw people to Annapolis. That's how excited people are to go to Annapolis and see a Liberty Tree. And I know there's another one that's party that's being planned down this southern part of Carol County. Yeah. So, it's time for us to plan ours. What day do we want to do this? You guys pick and let us know. We'll coordinate with the electeds. What's it What's it gonna take to get that plaque? August. Definitely August.

I was thinking August. And we'll just be really regimented about watering the tree. You know, the droughts that happen because now if Yeah, ideally we'll have our plaque there. So, I think August is the soonest that that's a possibility. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do August then. Great. And since such a vacation, I think I would be flexible enough in August to ask the mayor how her schedule is. And um you know, she's going to have to like uh do a a tree recognition.

Do we have in our calendar to ask the council for a proclamation for the month of May? Yes. And that's it's on there. Oh, good. Okay. Oh, I'm trying to I'm trying to think of everything. I've already reached out to our city clerk. Haven't heard a date yet. It's usually end of April or the beginning of March. I mean, sorry, May. Yeah. Yeah. Well, May is preservation month, so you want to get that in the I mean, what good is the month if you do it halfway through? Yeah. So, ideally, I I would like to see in the first of May meeting. Yes. Um if there's a preference on your calendars for um attending. Yes. First of May. Okay.

Yeah. um or even the end of April, I'm available. I'm coming back in country the 19th for the plaque unveiling. Oh, sorry. Okay. Then the last I'm sorry. Yep. The last thing just to share a few other things. We purchased pens with the logo. Um Carol County Downtown is the group we share with our economic development folks. Um we're getting some mini stick flags. Would love to order American ones too if they have the budget for it. Just think it would look nice um with the Carol US 250 logo. Um, are you still interested in hosting a table at Flower and Jazz? I was gonna ask, wow, are we on board for that? Yes. Yes. Okay, great. It's one of the favorite things we do. Yeah.

So, we sit right next to the city and everybody comes right up to us because they want their flowers. Yeah. They ask me all kinds of questions like, "Is this the only color?" And I'm like, "I don't know. I'm good at certain."

Yeah. So, um, and then we're doing a monthly post in our residential newsletter. It's the water newsletter, uh, really geared toward this national register update. Um, but tying into history, which is 250. And then, um, it's called story map. It's a it's a, um, GIS map. Um, we have supplied 10 Westminster historic sites. That'll be live in May. Something that people can do like the scan the QR code and then go through. Um we picked um sites all the way from the Mary Shelman house up to Terrace Hill um at McDaniel. So it's really getting folks to walk down the street

past come down. And then um the last thing the very very last thing we'd love to get pictures of our decorated um municipal buildings and then get those cats meows made which were hot collector items back in the day and um they make little ones. So, it's the little things. This is why we love you, Melissa, because Does anybody have them? I wish I It's something that would sit on like a door frame. Oh, yeah.

You only have to make in my dining room. Love that. They really are um a collector. Okay. Well, I always like jerks. It's true. Met her at a conference and she's still alive and well and making these things and she has so you may have gy look, but people love them. at History Fest where we had a million kids coming, they snapped up all of our Sway for the 250th like I've never seen him snap up stuff before. Oh, wow. Good. Yeah.

Anything else? No, that's it. Lots of work, so we appreciate it very much. Yes, I see a question. Question. Um I I'm in the process of purchasing a building. Uh it's actually 35 West Main right beside the city. Is are you am I able to possibly get still get on the list for the second wave of applications? Are you talking about facade? Facade. Yes. Okay. Do you want to update on that, Joe? Yeah. Um so the first round just concluded um and we're going to be announcing it probably be late summer when it's going to come in.

Okay. Um but yes, we will put it back out to the public. uh the five that needed some work on their applications were already in process and considered but yes okay I said on uh April 17th we're we're doing some work right now just owners are allowing us to back to hold off this one issue with it is typically it's for commercial use is that considered a commercial use it's we talked about this it's going to house probably be a recovery home. So that will probably be on a commercial. Okay. Yeah, the definition

we'll just double check our is different for tax credits versus this stuff. And so I'm going to be silent because I Melissa would have to figure out for you whether it's truly commercial or not. Yeah, believe we can do that. I believe on um I don't know estat it says mixed use residential/commercial. Okay. Okay, I can and that qualifies. That would be good. Yeah. Where did you say again? 35 West

right right beside the city. Um Chick Lowry at Auction Company. All righty. Well, let's get back to our agenda. Usually, I ask at this point for historic district commission comments. Do you have anything? No, I don't have anything. Haven't? No. So, I had the house and garden tour. Just think about getting tickets right now while you have a chance online. We have to do the minutes. Oh, minutes. That's right. We don't want to forget.

Thanks. Did you guys have a chance to read them? Yes. But I wasn't at the meeting. Oh, and actually Kevin was like me. So we're have to pass those. We'll have to pass those to Oh, they don't have enough people that were there. Yeah. Okay. I'm the only one. Yeah, that's fine. All right. So, commission comments. Um, just please come to the plaque unveiling. I can't wait for that on April 19th. And that's um all I have. Does Steph have anything they'd like to add to comments from this month? Now's a good time for public questions. Do we have any?

And now you can ask about anything. Doesn't have to be your project. It could be anything with historic district commission work. You want me to public? What are the next steps to market steps moving forward phase meeting?

Yeah. Um so I will share that um one of the applicants out of the 11 submitted a tax credit application and it's something that we often bring twice uh or or bring with facade because it is handinand it's um so I just wanted to remind everyone who's still here um there's an opportunity for that that does mean you're coming back to another meeting here

I know however the facade which you just got approve for tonight oddly doesn't require coming back here. So, all we really need is you to go, we'll write a letter notice to proceed, but you can consider this your notice, too, which is okay official. Um, just keep track of the invoice, paid receipt, uh, cancel check if you wrote the check. Otherwise, give that give that to us via email and then, um, we have to send it then to the state and then they send us the money and then we write you a check. Um, if we don't have a W9 from you yet, we're going to request one just so we can formally our finance department needs that. Other than that, that should be it.

So, tonight's approval was final approval. We don't have to go into the state. We already got comments from the state. Okay. Yeah. Um, sometimes we we do it afterwards. We went ahead since we had enough time um in between the two months and went ahead and sent that. Yeah. Great. So, we can start next week. You could. Yes. Yeah, that's wonderful cuz the contract the paying contractors have an opening schedule. So, I'd rather get it done as soon as possible to make it look better. Yes. And then you reimburse East Coast or whatever Anthony that whoever's the property owner is gonna who would we'd like to write a check to.

That's perfect. Congratulations on that building, too. Oh, thank you. So, one last thing I'll just throw in as a little extra info for the back of your hat. When I talk about tax credits, when you hear about these facade credits, when I talk about historic district credits from the state and from the feds for commercial, we all use the same guidelines of replacing in kind. We all use the same understandings of what's acceptable between the state and the feds, the city and the facade improvements. So there's not like four different sets of rules like you can use this here and you can use that there. It's all the same replacement in kind. Okay?

And so there should be no daylight. And when I have a question, is this going to fly? I just take it to the trust right away rather than trusting myself. I go to the Maryland Historic Trust, which are the folks who are the gatekeepers to the feds. The National Register District is really a Fed thing, but all the info is right through the Maryland Historic Trust. And so, we try to keep all our little rules together. Even it's though it's different programs, different funding bases, it's only fair to the public to use one set of rules. And when somebody points out to me there's daylight between this set and that set, I try my best to like admit it together so that you're not left having to interpret.

And the forms for the tax, if we were to try to apply for the tax credit, where do we obtain that? So the city has them right on their line. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. And if you want them for a state, they have them online and the state is the keeper of the federal applications. So they sort of use the same thing. It's really you just fill out the state and then do another click and say I want this also on the federal side. Incredible. So yeah, if you go on the website um historic district commission and then there's the sun and then the tax credits are here. All three of them. Okay.

The city is the easiest. Okay. Just think it's harder. Yeah. And then the feather is harder too. Normal. But realize that basically if you follow simple guidelines for us paves the way to what they want, but they probably want more in that we do. Well, that's wonderful though. Appreciate it.

The only good thing about working with the state and federal levels is on the state level there are experts who will make sure your federal application is in good shape and they're paid to. We're just volunteers. We're willing I'm willing to meet with y'all anytime you want to see me out on your job site. I'm right there, you know. But I am a volunteer and I do make mistakes. It's wonderful. We can use some extra help. No, he's fine. ones at work nowadays. That's incredible. That's I appreciate it. We're here to be a resource, not not, you know, just red tape. We're here to help. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Okay. Well, there being nothing else, I think I'll call us to adjourn. Agree. I'll be talking about us uh the meeting or we'll go offline. Okay. Agree. out.