Public Safety Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay, I notice that the clock on the wall turned to 5.30. I call to the Monday, July 13th meeting of the Public Safety Committee to order. First thing on the agenda is roll call. All members are present. Next on the agenda is public comment. Is there anybody from the public here that wishes to comment on anything before us tonight? It's not listed, yes. I mean, everything except for basically the two items, the dog situation and the, I think, travel. Public input call one, anybody? I'm calling for a second time. There's nobody on the internet. Third and final time, anybody for public input? Not hearing anything, I'll call public input closed. We've got a consent agenda. I will accept a motion to either pull something that's on the consent agenda or approve it as is. Motion and a second to accept as is. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. It's unanimous. Discussion and action items. The first one on the agenda is item 26-0631, prohibited dangerous animal objection by Adam Brunel for Teddy. The attorney says I should read this, so I will do so. The public hearing will proceed as follows. We will swear in all witnesses that will be presenting evidence. The city will first make a presentation of evidence. I will then ask board members whether they have questions for the city and its witnesses, if any, and the city will respond. I will then allow the contesting party to ask questions of the city and its witnesses, if any, and the city will respond. We will then allow the contesting party to make a presentation of evidence. I will then ask the board members whether they have questions for the contesting party and its witnesses, if any, and the contesting party will respond. I will then allow the city to ask questions of the contesting party and its witnesses, if any, and the contesting party will respond. Each party shall then have a brief time to summarize their positions, similar to a closing in a judicial trial. But I will immediately end your submission if you stray from the facts of the matter and engage in irrelevant discussion. The board will then discuss whether it agrees with the chief of police's determination and vote to uphold the determination or reverse the determination. If the determination is upheld, the board will determine the facts and law of the matter and close the hearing. With that said, the first party up is, there's two views on swearing in the witnesses. So if you're here representing the city in any way, shape, or form, or going to be a witness for the city, would you please stand and raise your right hand? Also, if you're in the contesting party, would you also stand, raise your right hand, or if you have witnesses to support, we're gonna swear everybody in all at once. So raise your right hand, and do you affirm that the testimony you give today will be honest and complete? And do you understand that you are making this affirmation under oath, subject to the penalties of perjury? Super, you may sit down. Well, according to the attorney's list, the city's gonna present their case, I guess.

yeah thank you commissioner am i on can you hear me yeah okay um commissioners have you had a chance to review the report uh the in the photographs we're associating granicus okay uh with me today i have witnesses uh denise sheehan uh cindy hogan and officer bryson mcveigh

So I'm going to give you an initial overview of what happened that day. Obviously was not there.

Could we start this out? Mr. Ratzke, could you play a... Let me go to this first, then we'll play it. Okay. Okay. On May 23, 2026, officers responded to 512 Reed Avenue for the report of a dog bite. Upon arrival, officers spoke with the victim, Vicki Kaufman. Vicki explained that she was taking her dog, Marshall, for a walk when she observed a pit bull, later identified as Teddy, off its leash. The pit bull saw Marshall and attacked him, biting his ear, neck, and leg. Vicki grabbed Teddy's mouth and attempted to pry it open. In the process, the dog bit both of her hands, causing a puncture on her right hand. Vicky began screaming for help. The caller, Cynthia Hogan, and a neighbor, Denise Sheehan, went outside to help Vicky. Denise brought a large stick and began hitting Teddy with it. After they managed to get Teddy to release Vicky and Marshall, Vicky held him down until the owners arrived. Vicky, Cynthia, and Denise all repeatedly explained that they believe the dog is vicious and that I should take the dog into custody or that the police department should. So we're gonna start it off. Ms. Naratsky, could you play, we have a YouTube, I'm not a YouTube, ring doorbell clip from Ms. Sheehan's residence of her exiting her residence with the stick-like object that she had because of the commotion. So if you could play that.

That's Gus.

As you can hear, the golden retriever Marshall yelping. You could obviously also hear what appeared to be Denise striking the pit bull with whatever object she left the residence with. The first witness that I'm gonna call is Cindy Hogan.

Cindy, if you could step up here. I'm gonna ask you a quick question first, okay?

Cindy, thanks for coming. Were you involved with the incidents on 5-23-2026 that I just described? Yes. Could you explain to me from the beginning your involvement in this attack?

Okay. It was around 7 p.m.

Yeah.

It was around 7 p.m., and I was out front in my front yard. There was no one else around in the whole neighborhood. It was a Memorial Day weekend. There was no cars, no people. It was all real quiet. 7 p.m., I thought, well, it's still daylight. I'll pick some weeds, pull long grass. So I was in my front yard. I live right on the stop sign between North 16th and Reed. And my back was to the street, and then I heard this snarling and barking, and I right away turned to see what it was and here was Vicky with her golden retriever that had just cleared the visual of Matt and Renee's ranch house walking up 16th on the leash walking like a normal person walking a dog and then there was this pit bull already trying to get at the golden and Denise Vicky was right at first going like this, trying to separate them, trying to keep the pit bull away from her golden. The pit bull went whang onto her, knocked her down. At first she was on the sidewalk. The pit bull then dragged the golden and Vicky out into the cement street by Matt and Renee's stop sign. So they were then now in the gutter in the street. And I am already running over there and saying, you need help. And then she said, get the leash. Get him off of me. Get it off of me. And the pile, the pit bull was on top of Vicky, who was on top of the Golden. And already, the biting was happening. The pit bull was latched onto the Golden's ear. Vicky was in between, sandwiched, getting bit. And I couldn't get the Golden's leash because it was underneath the pile. of the three of them. And I wasn't going to get on my hands and knees down there within the pit bull's face because then I knew when it was going to reattach, it was going to reattach on my face. So I crouched down to try to tug the leash out from underneath the pile, and I couldn't because it was too heavy. There was two, the pit, Vicki, the golden. I couldn't get the end of the leash, and I said, I can't get it. I can't get it. In the meantime, there was all the whimpering and the biting and the snarling and Vicki yelling, help, help, and I was trying, and then the pit bull kept reattaching. It loosened up and then reattached in a different spot, so it was on the ear, It bit the neck. It ended up biting the leg. When the golden tried to scramble, I kept trying to get the end of the leash. It scrambled enough where then it worked itself, reattach and reattack, reattach and reattack, five times, four or five times from one stop sign kitty corner across way to the other stop sign where Lynn lives. Kitty corner across this wide expanse of 16th to the other side. And so by that time, for one time, the golden was able to escape. It scrambled up. It wanted to escape. But I couldn't get the end of the leash. It tried to run. And I've never seen such a laser-focused... attack machine it was the most perfect specimen of a killing machine i've never seen anything like it that was what reminded me of like wild kingdom where you see like a lion taking down something the muscle the strength of that pit bull latching on again to the goal and taking it down again in the meantime backtrack We're over here by the gutter yet. During all the screams for help, during all the whimpering and snarling and yelping and me still trying to tug the leash, Denise heard the yelling for help through her RingCam audio. She comes out with the pipe. And she comes out in pajamas because she's the only other human around besides me. Me, Vicki, and Denise were the only three humans in the whole neighborhood besides the bleeding dog and the killing machine. And so then she starts wanging, wanging, trying to get the pit bull off the golden. You got to separate them. And then she tried, but it didn't. It just bounced right off. Nothing stopped the laser beam focus of that attack. And there was already blood from Vicky. There was blood from the dog. I mean, I then went afterward the next day thinking, where are all the blood stains? Well, the street machine cleaner had come by. So I was going to take pictures of all the blood. So the pipe didn't really help because that dog was so intent on... It would have killed Vicki to get to the golden. It would have done anything to get through Vicki to kill that golden. I know it. I just know it. And it was the most long duration of a reattach reattach biting areas reattacking all the way across that intersection it's like it never stopped it was most ongoing vicious attack I've ever seen and there was no one around and then finally Vicki and and Vicky and Denise held, because the pit bull had a collar, held that down with the pipe down on the cement and said, now, get the golden. Take the dog into your house, Cindy. Take your dog into the house because it's going to keep reattacking. And go around the back of your house because it's wanting to track. It's trying to track it. So I had to quick take it around the back of my house to get it out of the visual of the pit bull while they're holding. And they said, hurry up, Cindy. Hurry, hurry. We can't hold it forever. And they were holding it down while it was trying to get loose while I was getting the golden around the side of my house to my one unlocked door, because I always lock myself in except the one door that I'm, because I'm, you know, I like to lock myself in. So I had to go around to my sidewood porch, put the bleeding golden, bleeding golden, into my house who was limping already. There was blood all over its fur. I had no idea the injuries, but I thought, I got to call 911. I got the dog safe in the house, grabbed my little track phone that I only use for 911, and my two daughters are the only other two that know my track phone number besides scammers. So I quick grabbed my track phone, went back out, left the bleeding dog inside my house by itself, and then i was called dispatch and then dispatch right away wanted to know my address my name does she need an ambulance and i said she needs something i said this is awful and i explained a dispatch how awful this attack has been happening and how long duration it was and then in the meantime vicky's sitting there on the curb where they're both holding down the pit bull yet And then she, does she need an ambulance? And I said, Vicki, do you need an ambulance? And she goes, I need the police. I need the police and I need my husband. She was so full of blood and her hands didn't work because it was all bit up. She was all chewed up. Her hands didn't work and she couldn't dial. I don't know if she must've had her smartphone or was, I don't know whose smartphone it was, but she couldn't get, her husband, I don't know how she got ahold of her husband. In the meantime, I was still listening to dispatch saying, does she want an ambulance? And I go, she wasn't sure. But all she knew was that she needed the police right now and she needed her husband. She finally got her husband to come. I gave him the address. So the husband came. And then pretty soon the teenage son came. And then Officer McVeigh was there taking statements from everybody, trying to figure out what in heck has been going on. The bleeding dog was in my house. Vicki was sitting there all bleeding, yet sitting on the curb on the other side of 16th and Reed. Then she still had said no about the ambulance, but by the time everybody... Oh, then... You and your wife... walking down the sidewalk on my side of the street. And Denise says, well, but I was distracted talking to dispatch. Denise can be a better witness about saying, was this your dog? And, oh, I don't know. I don't think that's our dog. I don't think so. And then Denise said, hey, the police are on their way. We know it's your dog. You're staying right here until the police get here. Then they admitted that it was their dog. But Denise will explain all the details about that. McVeigh then took the statements from the Pitbull owners. Well, I was just more concerned about getting Vicki in my house to do wound care. She was just bleeding. I've had medical, I work with dementia patients. I know how to do wound care and all the emergency wound care and stuff. So I thought, I'll get Vicki in my house. The bleeding dog's already in my house. The husband's already in my house. The teenage son is already in my house. I just want to take care of the bleeding thing. And then McVeigh came in later and said, you all have to do written statements. And it's like a one-page piece of paper. How can you... describe on a one sheet, a little piece of paper, all this that happened, and it took a long time. It was the longest duration attack that I've ever seen. And so then the EMTs, then McVeigh came into my house and said, do you want an ambulance? And then Vic said, yeah, maybe I should. And yeah, because... The puncture wounds were bad on her. We're not even talking about the puncture wounds on the dog that never did stop bleeding. The husband was down on the floor trying to, he was saying, should I do a tourniquet? And I said, no, no, you don't want to do a tourniquet because that stops the blood flow completely and then the leg will go numb and that's just bad. Do compression. And I said, I got rags. We went through paper towels. He tried to do compression. He tried to get all the blood off the dog's fur. There was so much blood on the dog's fur because the ear, the neck never stopped bleeding. The neck never stopped bleeding. The leg never stopped bleeding. And they ended up, I think they took him to Grafton emergency for the vet. But in the meantime, Vicky's on my couch. all bleeding. And I said, OK, we got to get you cleaned up. So first it was soap and water on my kitchen sink. And I thought, OK, now we're going to do peroxide. And then I got her down with paper towels just to sop up all the blood. to then do the peroxide cleanse. We went through a lot of cotton balls and peroxide. And she says how much it hurt because the punctures were deep. And I said, just be glad I didn't use alcohol. But peroxide, I said, the white sizzle sizzle. I said, we're going to keep doing this until it stops sizzling because it's deep. And we got all the sizzle. And then I did antibiotic ointment topical after I patted it dry. Then we did the bandaging. And then, but before I did the bandaging, she was already getting all puffed up, swollen. And she goes, why do my hands, why are they all so swollen up? Look at this. Oh, she's going to go septic. Those punctures are so deep. She needs a deep wound cleanse. And the walk-in clinics are closed. It's Memorial Day weekend. She needs an ER deep wound cleanse. She needs a dog bite cleanse going way down in to get that whatever debris was in that pit bull's mouth out of there. And she needs oral antibiotic from the inside out, not just topical antibiotic from the outside in. But we bandaged her all up. I gave her a gift pack with a pain reliever, Advil, Tylenol. I gave her some more cotton balls. I gave her my bottle of... the sizzle stuff, the peroxide. And then I even gave her my spray, my pepper spray. That wouldn't have stopped it. A metal pipe didn't stop that attack. Pepper spray would not have stopped that attack. Nothing would have. Nothing. Screaming no, no, no at that dog didn't stop it. It was laser-beam focus. on herding her, getting through her, whatever it took to get to that golden. That's my opinion, and I stick to it, and I put a million bucks on that. If there wasn't, it was just me, and then Denise coming out in her pajamas, if it wasn't for the two of us, and Vicky laying in a fetal position, covered already with bleeding, blood from her, blood from the dog, yelling for help, laying in the street, being dragged by that pit bull, She had scuff marks on her knees. I had to peroxide her legs too because of being yanked and pulled by the pit bull. She wouldn't have made it. She wouldn't have made it. That pit bull would have reattached on her neck and her face. She was right down there. She was laying in a fetal position right there with her dog. And all the yells for help only brought me, who was outside already, and Denise because she heard it through the audio of her ring cam. No one else came, there were no cars. It was like a dead zone. And so then McVeigh, we had to do our written statements and then I put my written statement to the supervisor the next morning, Sunday morning early. And then I can't remember, I don't know what else details I could have missed. It was just, it was so awful. It was the, oh, this was after my grandkids, it was a late Mother's Day party that Saturday. My grandkids had just left at like 4 p.m. This happened at seven. My grandkids were playing on the sidewalk like they do on their little, I have little bikes in the garage. And I have two bikes, but I have three grandkids. So one kind of runs alongside, and they share who gets to ride the two bikes because there's three of them. So I say, you always go down to the fire hydrant and then come back on my side of the street. I didn't know the vicious grizzly bear pit bull lives down there by the fire hydrant. I had no clue. I have never seen that dog before in my life. I've never seen... you walk that dog ever in my life. I had no clue that the pit bull lived by the fire hydrant where I told my grandkids, you can go down there on your bikes. And my daughters say, oh, okay, they are never going out on that front sidewalk again, down in that direction. We're gonna go Ken Seal's way instead, even though he's got 10,000 cameras and he's a, but we gotta go Ken's direction now because it's safer. And then I'm taking care of my daughter's dog because they're on a vacation out west. And she said, you're not taking Wren out on the front sidewalk because that pit bull's going to get a visual of Wren, who's an older dog. little black hound, it would take one or two clampy bites and little Ren would be dead while Jamie's off in Utah. And she said, you're staying in the backyard only. You're taking Ren out to go poop potty, come back in. You're not going out front because that pit bull, who knows if that pit bull's still down there? I didn't know. I didn't know the update. Is it still down there? Every time I go out there now to weed my lawn, I'm thinking, if I'm on my hands and knees pulling long grass, it's going to attack me from behind. I have this fear now. It's not a safe neighborhood anymore. It isn't. It's not. I was going to request the police to put up a sign saying, dangerous. potential again for a second time, loose pit bull with no leash will attack, has already had priors of a human and dog bite, may happen again, you never know.

Excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt, but you're here to present evidence and factual information. I probably let you go a little astray on your fright and some of the other things. I can understand, but you're really here to just present the facts, the facts of the evidence that what you actually saw

Yep, I was right there. Not what you felt. Inches from it.

Or not that you're worried moving forward, but what happened in this incidence only. And like I said, I probably let you go a little further than I should have.

I saw the entire thing from the beginning to the end.

Yeah.

I was inches away from the bloody attack that lasted forever. The reattaching of the bites, the puncture wounds, the reattaching, the reattaching. I saw all the blood. Yep. I heard all the screams. I rescued the bloody dog. I took care of the wound care of the victim human that was punctured by the pit bull. And that is... That was all evidential.

Just what you said there is factual and... provides a picture and a knowledge for us, but to expand upon that.

What's factual also is that my daughters are now saying that I can no longer do anything with my grandkids out on that front sidewalk down near that area, nor taking my daughter's dog out on the front sidewalk because it'll get a visual of that pit bull. That's also factual.

Cindy, Commissioner, could I ask one follow-up question for her? Could I ask a follow-up question for her? Sure. Okay. Vicki, last question for you. Cindy. I'm sorry, Cindy. My apologies. Cindy, did you know Vicki prior to this incident? No. Okay. I've never seen her before. That's all I have. Thank you. Do you have another witness? Yeah, I do have one more. Have you ever talked to you before? That should be a thank you. You can go have a seat. I'll call Denise. Thank you. Thank you. Next witness would be Denise Sheehan. Denise, if you could come up here.

Thank you.

Denise, were you involved with the incident on May 23rd, 2026 in regards to the animal attack that we have been discussing? Yes, I was. Okay. Could you walk me through how you got involved with this incident and what you witnessed?

Sure. I was just sitting down to watch, start watching a movie and I heard some kind of commotion outside. And I got up to look and when I looked out my window in the middle of the street was a woman, a golden and a dog on top of them. And I reacted without really like what's happening? I knew something was wrong because there was a woman on the street. So I ran out and I've got one of those security bars by the door that you put under the handle and then you put it on the rug and it keeps the door from opening from the outside. So I had to move that bar. to get through the door to open it up. And I thought to myself, I better hang on to this. And it's a good thing I did because otherwise it would have just been two women with nothing and the woman being attacked by the pit bull. So I had a steel, a galvanized steel pipe, which was the security bar. And when I ran out, Vicki, the owner, was yelling, get the dog off of me, get the dog off of me. And it was just a snarling thing going on there. It was like such a rumble. So I started hitting the dog on its back with that pipe, and I hit it as hard as I could. And that pipe was just bouncing off of the dog. That thing was a tank. And so I was starting to hit it like this. I mean, I was putting my whole weight into it. And finally, it would start to open its jaw a little bit with the shock of being hit from behind. And every time it would open his jaw, Vicki would get Marshall the golden's head or neck out of the pit bull's mouth. And then the first time this happened, Marshall took off running and the pit bull turned on Vicki. And I didn't know Vicki either. I'd never seen her before either. but the pit bull turned on Vicky and I don't know if it got her in the arm or what, or on her jacket or something, or her sweats or something, but it kind of spun her around in the street and it was really interested in her. So I started whacking the pit bull again to get it off of her. And then it kind of changed from the whacking or something to the attention of Marshall again and it pursued Marshall and it caught Marshall again and it started attacking Marshall again. So then Vicki got off the street and Vicki and I, I was in socks, ran like, It was going from corner to corner to house. It was like we were chasing it in this area. So we ran after them, and it had already caught Marshall. So I started, Vicki grabbed the dog's jaws and was trying to get Marshall out of it, and I was behind them hitting the dog on the back as hard as I could to try to get it to, like, release its jaw at all. And that's what seemed to work because it would release again, and Vicki would be able to pull that dog. And she had her hands in that dog's mouth. I mean, she was fierce. She wanted to save her dog. And the dog would escape, and he'd try to get away, and the people would catch it again. And then Vicki and I would do the same thing again, where we'd both catch up to them. Vicki would go for the dog's mouth, and I would be banging it on the back with everything I had. And at one point, right before the end of this whole thing, and Cindy was right. This went on and on and on and on. It was just amazing. The thing was a tank and it had one idea and it was in attack mode. At first it was the dog, then it was Vicki, then it was the dog primarily after that. And we were able to grab the dog. Thank God the pit bull had a collar on because if it hadn't had a collar, I don't know what we would have done. But we were able to grab, Vicki and I both grabbed that pit bull's collar. So it was four hands on the collar and We got the marshal out just enough, it opened his jaw just enough where she could get the dog's head out and she screamed to Cindy to take the dog and get it in her house. So Cindy did, and like she said, she really did a good job with that. She went behind her house to keep it out of the pit bull's line of vision. And then Vicki and I were just holding that dog with all of our might to not let it go again. And at one point, and Vicki was so tired from the whole fight, and she was bleeding, and the dog was bleeding. When I got home, I had blood on me, but none of it was mine. It was their blood. And we held on to it, and she said, don't let go. And I said, I won't let go. Don't you let go. So we held that dog until... I don't remember if it's until the police officer came or when the owner walked down the street because she came down and Vicki screamed at her, is this your dog? And she goes, I don't know. I don't have my glasses on. She was about three houses away. So then she came down and then her husband came down and she walked back to the house to get a harness for the dog because it had just had a collar on and they put a harness on it so they could handle it better. and by then the dog was pretty subdued because I put everything I had into beating that dog to get him off of that poor golden, and Vicki, who was really a small woman in stature, not in attitude or bravery, she was really something, but she was exhausted, and so we hung on to it, and then the police officer came, and everything Cindy said, you know, how she got him in their house and took care of their wounds and everything, and then After everything was, I stood there until by the dog and this gentleman with my galvanized pipe waiting for the police officer to come because I thought if this dog gets away again, I'm going after it again because I didn't know what it was capable of at that point. And it never got away again. They had control of it at that point. And when I got home, I was just in shock and I woke up the next morning and I couldn't even move It's like when you have a car accident and you pull every muscle in your body. And I was so upset that I had hit that dog over and over and over because I never imagined I would be in a situation like that. Especially like in my pajamas at night, you know, you just don't expect something so... horrific to happen. You know, you heard the screaming and stuff. And I said to my husband the next morning, I said, I can't believe that I hit a dog like that over and over because I was just, I felt terrible. And my husband looked at me and he goes, that wasn't a dog. And I thought that was pretty profound. At that time, it wasn't a dog. I mean, they can say it's a family pet and it's a great dog and I'm sure in the right situation it is, but Cindy was right when that dog he was just laser visioned on that on Cindy and and her dog and he just would not give up he wouldn't give up and we we fought to the extremes to save the dog and Cindy I mean and Vicki and I think that's everything

Thank you, Denise. Just one last question for you, just to confirm. I know you mentioned it earlier. Did you know Vicki prior to this incident?

Never saw her before.

Okay, so I just want, for the record, both witnesses are independent witnesses.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Do you have any other witnesses, Chief?

That should be it.

Any other thing that you would like to see at this time?

Not at this time.

Okay. Next on the agenda is the board. Does the board have any questions of the chief or the city's representation and or their witnesses? If you have any questions, now would be the time to ask of them. I see a lot of people shaking their heads no. Next would be then for the contesting party. Do you have any questions of the city and or their witnesses that you would like to ask at this time?

Of the comments that were made, is there any option for me to clarify any of the statements, meaning the street sweeping comment or Officer McVeigh requesting the ambulance?

I view this more as a...

So just roll it into my comments? Is that better, easier?

You can ask questions based on their testimony. I have no questions for their testimony, no. But not a debate and or a but, you know what I mean? That's fair. Okay, very good. So you have no questions at this time? I do not. Thank you. Now we're up to the contesting party to make a presentation. Sir, would you like to make a presentation and or call witnesses?

I don't have a presentation. I don't have any witnesses.

unless is there the option to submit pictures of my dog with small children, family members, other dogs?

That, to me, would be considered part of a presentation. So, yes, if that's what you would like to do. Okay.

Okay. How would I submit those as part of the presentation? You don't have hard copy here, I take it? I do not have hard copies here, no. I apologize.

Do you have them like what, as a PDF file?

They would be as JPEGs.

You can't put any electronic devices into it?

Yeah, for example, pull it up on your phone or something and then come up here and you can go down the line here and we'll be happy to look at them. I know if you wanna get something to the city, the only way they will accept it is via email and attachments, and that way their IS department can look at the attachments, make sure everything's kosher before they actually get it on our system, so. So if you have some pictures you would like to, and feel free to walk up here and go up and down the line here. Sure. Is it tight?

This is Teddy with my sister who's in the audience today. This is Teddy next to the dogs that he socializes with. Those would be the only items. Thank you, guys. Appreciate your time. To further discuss the incident, as noted before, I arrived a little late to the incident. I hadn't noticed that Teddy had slipped out the door until after the events, at which time my wife did go down. She was asked, is this your dog? because she was three houses down did say i don't know once she confirmed it was our dog she had yelled for me i ran down we did keep teddy on the side of the road waited for officer mcveigh to arrive the incident did happen on a saturday our street sweeping day is tuesday not sunday um and to back up a little bit and give some facts about Teddy. We got him when he was three years old, five years ago. So at this point he is eight years old and he's been in the neighborhood for five years without any incident of any kind. So just for context. His groomer that he has been seeing for almost two years now has always spoken very highly of him and said he's very easy to work with. She also did say that she was very sad that he wouldn't be able to make any of the appointments, including the one last week that he was supposed to go to. His previous groomers also spoke highly of him, but they were very far away in Green Bay, which is why we made the switch. He has been boarded numerous times very successfully for up to a week at a time at local boarding houses. And as you saw, he is consistently around people of varying ages, including my two-year-old niece, all the way up to, well, I think myself being the oldest person in our households. Oh, I apologize, my brother being the oldest person in the household. And he also consistently socializes with the two German shepherds in the neighborhood, one of which you saw, the other one just lives with that German shepherd as well. So... When I decided to appeal this decision, I did so because while I was completing the veterinary appointments to clear Teddy of rabies, as is standard operating procedure, his primary veterinarian, who also has two pit bulls herself, did not show any concern for the situation, which I thought was unusual, so I asked her This doesn't seem like an unusual situation. And she confirmed it is something that does happen and is somewhat common. In fact, because of the protocol, he did see two other veterinarians just due to the tight scheduling that we had to fit him within. And both of those also confirmed for me that this isn't an unusual scenario when two dogs meet. And then after receiving the order to remove him from the city within 48 hours, I had to call around to a lot of humane societies to rehome him to comply with the order, being as though it's a tight deadline and it was approaching the end of the week. So when I called the humane societies to surrender him, I told them that this was his first incident of any kind, and all of them were also very surprised that the order was to rehome him or get him out of the city. Lastly, in my conversation with Police Chief John Musial, he said on the phone that there were a lot of people upset by the incident, which I don't doubt. I can only imagine how upsetting it would be. But when I asked him if that was part of the decision-making process, he didn't want to elaborate, and he told me that we'll just go with the appeals process. And so I hope that the deeper context of... While I can understand the perspective from other people, Teddy is not in fact a killing machine. Teddy is a meatball, as we call him. But Teddy also loves the two-year-old that he interacts with on a regular basis. And I hope that deeper context will help you to reverse this order.

Is that your presentation? That is it. Members of the board, do you have any questions of the gentleman that just presented his side of the case? No. Seeing none, does the city have any questions of the gentleman? I do not. Okey-doke. And last but not least then is each party is given a brief time to summarize their positions. Would the city like to go first?

Sure.

You've heard both witnesses today. Obviously, the criteria for prohibited dangerous animal means any of the following, which is going to be 14-020-2C-1 and 2. The first one is going to be any animal that, while off the owner's or caretaker's property, has inflicted serious injury or killed a domesticated animal without provocation. So we have that one. The second one would be any animal that inflicts bodily harm to a person on public or private property. We also clearly have that one. In summary, the victim, Vicky Kaufman, was walking her dog, Marshall, in a public area when Mr. Burnell's dog, Teddy, became loose from his residence. Teddy ran toward Marshall and, without provocation, launched a vicious attack, causing Marshall to suffer serious injuries during the incident. Ms. Kaufman also sustained bodily injuries while attempting to protect her dog. After reviewing the photographs documenting the injuries to Marshall and Ms. Kaufman, the ring doorbell video footage and witness statements I've concluded this incident clearly meets the definition of a prohibited dangerous animal. As chief of police, I recognize the responsibilities that accompany these decisions in this nature, and I understand that some may advocate for providing an animal with a second chance. However, based off the severity of this unprovoked attack, I do not believe the city of Manitowoc can reasonably accept the risk of a similar incident occurring to another person or another animal. Thank you.

Sir?

I think given the circumstances, while I do agree that yes, all of the city ordinance is very clear, I don't think that being the first incident, it warrants that Teddy be ordered out of the city. and I would consider it inconsistent with any other breed of animal. I believe that because Teddy is a pit bull that it is something that is being considered and what I would consider unfairly. I don't think that if this were a German Shepherd or if this were any other breed that he would be asked to be rehomed.

That's it. Thank you. Any questions? We've come to the conclusion here.

I just got one question that I didn't ask before. So then the dog that was attacked at the end, I'm just curious, did it make a recovery?

I don't have an answer on that.

OK. And then the extent of injuries from the people involved, full recovery as well?

We have our victim here, but she did not get sworn in or did not want to testify.

Would you like her sworn in quick? I can do that now that I've fallen into actual verbiage.

She currently has an attorney. He advised they do not want to testify today.

Okay, that's fine. I was just kind of curious for the full picture at the end.

Can I ask a question of the police chief? In the situation where a second incident might occur from the same animal, are there any more specific consequences for a second bite?

Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, there would be. Statutorily, I don't know it off the top of my head, but the dog would be ordered to be euthanized. Thank you.

Any other questions? If there is none, we've kind of come to the conclusion here and have to make a decision as a group. Under the findings of fact, it lists inflicted serious injury to or killed a domesticated animal without provocation while off the owner's or caretaker's property. One of the other items is inflicted bodily harm to a person on public or private property. And I think that in the city's presentation between the conversation and the witnesses provided, those are two items that were relayed to us for making a decision. There are three other items that the statute calls for, but those do not look like they're applicable in this case. I would accept a motion either to uphold the police chief's determination and go through with the removal of the animal, or I would accept a motion to reverse the police chief's decision and do otherwise. It's up to us to decide which way we wanna go.

I'll make the motion to uphold the police chief's recommendation.

I got a motion and a second to uphold the police chief's recommendation. Any questions or comments? Yes, sir.

Yep. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll just make a comment on the reason why I made the motion. First of all, you know, I grew up on a farm. I had plenty of animals, plenty of dogs my entire life. I have an affinity for animals. My family does. My kids do. I own them. In the same regard, I've also been on this committee for many years. I think this is probably my fourth year out of the five years I've been city council person on this committee. I've seen many different breeds of animals come through with the same process. But in the same respect, the incident did happen. I understand Teddy is probably a wonderful dog to your family, a wonderful dog all around. But in the same aspect, this incident did happen, which is obviously not refutable on that part. It did cause real trauma to the people involved, watching just during the testimony of it. I mean, you can definitely see it. It changed, I think, for example, the perceived safety of the neighborhood based off of that incident. Now, if this were a person, regardless of any prior crime, that person would, similar incident, unprovoked, probably be going to jail, plain and simple. Yes, there'd be a test, there'd be a trial, similar to this, and then you'd go from there, right on that aspect. I know this isn't a person, so this is what we have, but in that same light, Um, you know, it does meet the criteria of the statute verbatim, you know, cause injury to an animal unprovoked and a person unprovoked. Um, and, and I don't see any way where we can go against what this, what the, the Manitowoc municipal code says and that of the recommendation of the police chief. But that's the reason why I made the motion on that. I do feel for all parties involved, I'll be honest with you. I feel for not only the victims of the attack and what happened, because it's clearly a traumatizing moment, but I also feel for you guys as well, right? Because animals can be a family member or are a family member and have real emotional attachment. So there is no real winner in this whole thing It's just there is no guarantee that this wouldn't happen again Right if we let's say go against the police chiefs recommendation and it happens again And then let's say unfortunately somebody does die or it's significantly injured That's on us right like we can only do what's within our mechanisms right now based off of what happened and the facts And that's why the recommendation was made. Like I said, I feel for everybody involved. I don't feel good either way, regardless of what I would have did for the motion. But given the facts, it's, I think, the best recommendation or motion that I can make at this time. So I yield the floor.

Any other discussion or comment on the motion to approve the police chief's recommendation? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, nay. Unanimous to uphold the police chief's recommendation. There's some paperwork here, gentlemen, to sign that he's sending down. Next item on the agenda is 26-0632, has to do with out-of-state travel training requests for Chief John Musial, the second to the FBI National Academy graduation, Quantico, Virginia. You just want to get out of the hot weather? I didn't. Think it's I think it's actually hotter down there Yeah, but I can give you more details if anyone wants to know about it more than what was provided in the packet I

We've been here. I'll take the details. Sure. So Captain Cooper Schmidt was selected to attend the FBI National Academy. It's in Quantico, Virginia. It's a very prestigious command school for law enforcement, extremely hard to get into. I think the last officer that we sent was probably 15 years ago, at least, just because it's so hard to get accepted. I would like to go out there for his graduation. I think it's extremely important to support our people. So I'm going out there for three nights. Initially, I bought my airfare on my own. I'm going to pay for my meals on my own. That's no problem. I was just asking for hotel accommodation and a rental car, just to help me out with it.

Well, thank you for providing those details. Obviously, tell that officer congratulations. I've obviously been part of the law enforcement community for a while in my past. I understand that that is an extremely, it's honorable, obviously, you know, with the whole thing. And it's honorable that you want to be out there and support them. So I'll make the recommendation to fully support that request. Second. Wholeheartedly.

Thank you. Yeah, the FBI National Academy is grant-funded, so the FBI initially pays for it for him. Obviously, he has expenses outside of that, but, yeah, he's out there until late September. Today was his first day, actually, so he's going to be out there for quite a while. So I just want to be there to support him, and he'll appreciate that.

Yeah.

Thank you for doing that. Thanks.

Motion to second, all those in favor, is that aye, right? I got to say aye yet.

Aye. Unanimous.

Thank you.

Thank you.

260633, last item looks like on the agenda, which is the weather siren schedule and criteria change. Now to the other side of the chief. You got it.

Good evening and thank you for your time. So I'm assuming you read the attachment that was on there. Basically, kind of why I was looking at this is with some of our recent weather activity, a lot of questions have been raised and then I had a meeting over with the emergency management at the county and which dispatch or dispatch center is part of that. And there seems to be a lot of confusion around for the city, when to sound the sirens and when not to. And obviously as part of our emergency management team, that's always a little worrisome to me when it comes to a severe weather event like this. So I started asking some questions, things like that. And, Essentially what it comes down to is that the city of Manitowoc out of the whole county is the only one that sounds the sirens differently. So the criteria for the county is when a tornado warning has been issued by the National Weather Service, they push a button and sound the siren for the county. For the city, it's different. We also follow that criteria, but there's also a provision in there that we can sounded for severe thunderstorm warnings if the fire department feels necessary. I feel as a chief officer of the fire department and not the National Weather Service, I think that's a tough call to put on our people, especially when they're in the fire station. That's who dispatch is going to call and does call and ask questions instead of pushing the button. Um, sometimes we're out on calls doing other things in the community when those questions happen, you know, when weather can arise. So dispatch doesn't have the answer they're looking for and kind of hung, you know, they're in limbo. So my recommendation, um, is that we follow. what the county does so that when you hear that siren, you know what it means. That's what I want as a risk manager, as emergency management, is that when that sounds, you know exactly what it means. You're not confused by... Well, is it sounding for three minutes continuous, or is it a minute on, minute off, minute on, minute off? What does that mean? I don't think most residents pick up on that. They just hear the siren, and if you know exactly what it means, I feel that can create a better outcome when emergency weather happens. So that's my recommendation there. And then also coupled with that is I would like to align with the county's testing procedure Right now, again, the city is different. We test them every Saturday at noon. So that's at least four times a month. The county currently does it, I believe it is the first Wednesday of every month. Again, I think it would be important to stay consistent across the county. Right now, testing that often, we have an aging system. puts undue I guess you'd call it times I mean if we could do it once a month instead of three that's less time we're running the siren things like that to prolong its life as well as again it keeps it consistent and my fear with how much we do sound that siren is it kind of becomes white noise and that I don't want to happen either that when the siren goes off we know what it is so that's why That's my recommendation or what I would like to do. I went back with the clerk and we have found no, did some research. There's no ordinances or anything pertaining to how we want to sound that siren. So I feel it is my prerogative as the fire chief looking out for the best interest of the community that we fall in line with this criteria and I would like to make that change. And I was looking at maybe an August 1st hard date that way we can get the change out there. Part of this component of this change would be education. Prior to this meeting and writing this letter to the committee, I did talk with county emergency management on how we could educate everything from, you know, I'm on open mic to going to the senior center, different things like that, getting it out on our websites and trying to educate the public on this change. Other than that, that's really what it comes down to. So I guess, does anybody on public safety have any questions for me?

Any questions?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have any questions per se, but I do fully support the change. I do fully believe that less is more. With that, I mean, you know, like, if you have, like, too many, let's say, false notifications on anything, then eventually people are like, oh, it's just going off again, right? And you don't take it for the seriousness. Like, tornado warning is clearly something somebody should be taking immediate action for right away, every time. So you hear those sirens like, yeah, that's action. But like I said, like we had it, I was coming home from a baseball game, I don't know, probably our last severe thunderstorm, and it went off and my kids were freaking out and we ended up really getting nothing, right? And they were like, oh, why'd they go off, right? So like too many years of conditioning like that could mean like, well, I don't really care about sirens anymore. So and then the second thing I live really close to the siren so to do it once a month or maybe once a year like that would be great. Not having to go like this for every Saturday if I'm home right like once a Saturday I can do that maybe I can schedule going out to eat or something that day.

Sure and well and that's the thing is we just fall in line with the county's testing so again. For dispatch, for the people that actually have their finger on the button, it's all across the board for the entire county. It makes it simple for them We know another little benefit is since we test them Saturdays at noon, throughout the summer, which is the storm season, there are a lot of events on Saturdays. And numerous times, be it for county fair or like Metro Jam, we'll have to actually turn the siren off while these events are going on. go turn them back on, which I don't necessarily like that either. Right. So that's also a side benefit of doing it that first Wednesday of the month is it's kind of a, generally speaking, a little better time of day to do that. Yep. So, okay.

Yeah, I fully agree. And then I didn't know about that where you actually turned them off. So, I mean, that'll even save man hours and be a cost benefit as well. Correct. Like if you look at it that way. So, yeah.

So full support from me.

Thank you.

Anyone else? Yes, sir. I just wanted to add a comment that I really enjoy hearing the sirens at noon on Saturday. It's one of my favorite parts of the weekend. But that probably emphasizes one of your points. Exactly. And I also don't live next to them either. So I understand the recommendations and am supportive of that.

Hearing none, I'm going to add my two cents since I came all the way in for this meeting. And it's my first meeting in a while because of an unfortunate surgery. I'm glad that this came up. I was going to just talk to you about it, but like you may know, I had to be getting operated on here and there and this and that. That last one where everybody was complaining that we didn't hear the sirens, except for if you were in the county, they go, aren't they the same? I thought they were until I saw this. And now that the way you put it together, I mean, that's, people feel better. And if the committee has no problem, I plan on putting this on the non-consent agenda so that it gets a little more attention at the city council. And if you would be available in case somebody has questions or you could do your little sort of educational piece right then and there.

Yeah, absolutely.

That would be great. Absolutely. So if nobody has a complaint, it'll go on the non-consent agenda.

I fully support that as well. I think that'd be great for that education piece like Chief was talking about. Sure.

Now I got to remember, do we take a vote on this? No, okay.

No, I was just looking for support, trying to be transparent and all those types of things. So I'll take it. We have our support. Thank you, sir.

Motion and a second to accept the presentation and the request. The motions are made.

Second.

Questions, none. All those in favor, aye.

Aye.

Anonymous, super. Done. Thank you, gentlemen. Motion to adjourn. There is a motion to adjourn.

Second.

And a second. All those in favor? Aye. Unanimous. We are adjourned. Thank you very much, everyone.

We are adjourned.

Chief. You got a minute?

Actually, both chiefs might be interested in this one.