Town Council - Regular Meeting

Let's pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I ask Ms. Worley to lead us in invocation.

Heavenly Father, thank you for the opportunity to be here this evening to do the business for the town. We just ask you to be with everyone involved to make the right decisions for the citizens. And we just lift Mayor Bird up to you this evening, Lord. We ask for your healing of her mind, body, and spirit. Just keep the family close. And we just ask you to be with all of them during this time. In your name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.

All right. Mayor Byrd is not available tonight. Like Leanna said, let's keep her in our prayers. So I'll go to, oh, excuse me. Let's do the approval of the agenda. Do I have a motion?

So moved. Second.

We have a motion by Councilman McGowan, seconded by Councilman Tim Brown. All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Consent agenda items?

I'll make a motion that the consent agenda items be approved. I second.

I have a motion to approve the consent agenda items by Councilwoman Dobbins, seconded by Councilwoman Riley. All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? I open the first open forum at 6.32. Anyone we can listen to speak, please come to the podium. Give us your address. Limiting comments to three minutes. I close the first open forum at 6.33 p.m. Next regular business will be with the town manager.

The first item on your agenda is an ordinance change of speed limit on various streets within all subdivisions in the town of Wilson's meals. And this is following concerns from citizens at the last meeting in 2 subdivisions. Regarding traffic speeds and safety. I did review the speed limits on the various town streets with Patrick, our public works supervisor, and discussed it with the chief. And it's our recommendation that council just pass an ordinance that reduces the speed limit on the streets and all of the subdivisions within town to 15 miles per hour. some of them are at 15 already, some are at 20, some at 25, some do not have speed limit signs posted, and we feel like if we pass this ordinance to reduce the speed limit in all of those subdivisions, that hopefully it would help with the speed and traffic problems in those subdivisions. We've also had a couple of requests for either reducing the speed limit or speed bumps, having speed bumps installed. Those are very costly to install and maintain. So if we could try this first and see if that helps in some of the areas, that would be better.

Ms. Worling, since you mentioned cost, I'll bring it up now. What is the cost involved with changing all these signs? And who pays for it?

So the speed limit signs are covered by the PAL bill funds. It does not cover street name signs, but it does cover safety signs and speed limit signs are in that as well. And we're hoping that the ones that we've put up in the past few years, that there's not really a lot wrong with them. We could keep some of those. We might declare some of the other surplus, offer them to another town at a reduced price.

That was going to be my question also. The other thing that I would like to say about that is I'm totally opposed to those speed bumps. I'm totally opposed to that. I would never, never vote to have those speed bumps anywhere. I think they're very... I don't know what the exact word I'm going to use, but I'm just totally against them. I think they're useless.

Well, they're dangerous for the fire department and police department, too.

I don't know how anybody else feels, but that's how I feel about them.

So the subdivisions that already have speed bumps, what are you going to, are they going to take them?

No, we only, we only have one subdivision that has speed bumps in the block wood. So they'll stay there and we'll continue to maintain them. But what we have to do in that subdivision has made us realize that that's not anything we want to continue to do in all of the subdivisions. It's just, it's costly, it's time-consuming, the paint on them doesn't last long, and then if they have to be repaired, it's a lot more complicated than just repairing or patching a pothole or anything like that.

Do I have a motion by anybody?

I make a motion to approve the proposed ordinance to change the speed limit on various streets within all subdivisions of the town of Wilson's Mills to 15 miles per hour.

Second. Second.

I have a motion by Councilman McGowan to change the speed limit in various streets within all subdivisions in the town of Wilson Mills. I have a second by Councilwoman Dobbins. Any more discussion? All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed?

The second item is a discussion about the endowment termination. You all discussed at one of your work sessions about the James George endowment funds that we have and asked me to look into the possibility of dissolving that, terminating the contract that we have. And I'm going to turn it over to Attorney Deuce Blond. He's done some research on that.

There was an email from myself to Leanna in the packet where I gave her my opinion about the path forward with this, and I'll just kind of go over that real quick. There's sort of two ways we can approach it. The endowment agreement does not have any language about termination. It also doesn't specify a term. Under ordinary principles, contract principles, specifically what's referred to as the UCC, we could, upon reasonable notice, terminate the agreement. That's one way of pursuing it, but it does leave unanswered some of the other issues surrounding the endowment, such as the return of the principal or where does the principal go. My suggestion was, and I know that Leanna said that, it was difficult getting in contact with the family, especially Mr. George had passed away last year. But if his family or his estate would be willing to do an amendment, that would be the best way to handle the dissolution of the endowment. Um, basically it would be something along the lines of an endowment dissolution agreement, which was set forth the parties understanding an agreement to terminate the endowment. It would, it would contain provisions indicating where the principal would go, which would be negotiated. Um, I believe it's my understanding that kind of level, um, did get the agreement, uh, for Mr. George. that the $25,000 principal be transferred to a fund, a beautification fund for the town's use. I don't know if that's still an option given that Mr. George has passed away, but it's certainly something that could be taken up with the family. And obviously that would probably be the preferred approach. So you have a little bit of money that you can put into your beautification fund. if we were just to try to terminate the agreement, the most likely result is that I would recommend that the funds be returned to the family because otherwise there's nothing that would otherwise entitle a town to those funds. I didn't mention in my email, there is a statute in North Carolina that talks about, generally speaking, institutional funds, which an endowment is considered. It talks about certain provisions that have to be in those, but it doesn't talk about dissolution of endowments, especially where there's no language in the agreement. It does talk about there's an option to remove restrictions on the use of funds. And I had the outside thought that it may be that if we follow that process, that we could construe the limitation, the prohibition against accessing the principle. And if you know the terms of the endowment are, you can only spend the interest on it. You can't touch the principle. And it's possible that we could construe that limitation, that as a limitation, and that The statute does allow under certain conditions, for example, if the fund is less than $100,000, which this is, it's older than 10 years, which this is, and use of funds consistent with the purpose of the endowment, which put it into like a beautification fund, I would say it probably is, that you could potentially seek to release the restriction. It requires you give 60 days notice to North Carolina Attorney General. Okay. That might be an option, although it's, again, it's not crystal clear that that's what this statute is intended to allow. So the preferred alternative is you get an agreement with the family where they say, here, we'll return the principal to you, we'll dissolve the agreement. And everybody signs on the dotted line. There's no arguing about it.

Has this been, this has been in existence for a while now, a number of years, correct? I think it was 2014. Yeah, that's significant. Has this been of any significant benefit to the town of Wilson's Mills, to the people or anybody else?

I don't know that personally, but my understanding is that given how small the interest is, the cost of administering the fund has sort of exceeded the value of it.

I think for a finance lady, it's more of a headache than it is an asset to the town. My personal opinion is if you can somehow reach out to the family with your attorney skills, that might proceed a lot quicker. And just ask if we can do the modification.

Mm-hmm.

And yes, even though the endowment, we still can't use the $25,000, if I understand it correctly, but we can use the small amount of interest on two trees rather than half a tree, something like that. That would be my preference.

I like simplicity for simplicity's sake, and that is rather than having our attorney go out and try and get different interpretations of different statutes, and I hope this would work, and maybe this one will, or we could stretch it to mean this, just terminate it and walk away. I said, thank you very much, and whatever they want to do with the funds, if they want to give them to Pine Level, go right ahead, but

Well, and I agree with that, Dave. I was just saying as far as him not using the statute, but the first option in the email was to contact the family to see if they would release that restriction that it had to go for this. But if not, then I totally agree. Let's say appreciate it. Our finance lady has other things she needs to do other than worry about a couple thousand dollars.

Excuse me one second. They're very difficult to reach, very difficult to contact. If we can contact them the first time, I suggest that we lay it on the table right then in a nice sort of way and use that contact to say we intend to terminate this and just go from there.

If they're not willing to do that, that's what I'll do.

As best you can. Yeah, so I'm clear. I think the direction is certainly that the town would like to terminate the endowment, and it's just a matter of how you go about it. If they're not willing to release the funds to the town, that's fine. I think you still, the option of them signing an endowment dissolution agreement is still the better approach. If they say, no, we want the money returned to us, but we're willing to sign an agreement that we're agreeing to terminate the endowment, I still think that's the preferred approach. Absolutely.

Well, I agree wholeheartedly that we need to do that. And however they say to do how they want to do it, I think unless it's something beyond what we can do, I'm for doing the same thing.

How much interest was it? You did tell us the last meeting. How much was that?

I think it's even maybe $3,000.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. It won't be much over $2,000.

It's not. If you'll come to the microphone, Conor.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Are we talking that whatever she determines the interest is, is that on an annual basis or is that since we've had it in 2014? Really? Not worth that kind of money.

Yeah, so there's, and again, this is one of those accounts that I'm having to dig back from the beginning to make sure things were posted correctly, but as it stands, there's approximately 37,000, and that's over the course of the endowment. 37,000? Excuse me, 3,700.

Oh, okay, all right.

7,000, we keep it, right?

Yeah, that's a different story then.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Well, I make a motion that we table this decision for the James George Endowment.

I'll second that. That gives the attorney time to...

I have a motion that we table this and let the attorney see if they can do something with the family. And it was, motion was made by Councilwoman Riley, seconded by Councilman McGowan. Any more discussions?

How long do you think it'll take? Can we resolve this by the next meeting, do you think?

It's possible. I don't have any contact information for the family, so I'll just do it the best I can. But if anybody on council does or anybody in the community does.

It's not that there's any big rush. I mean, it's not like the money's going to pile up and we've got to do something with it. It just depends entirely on how receptive they are. I would just suggest you just give it your best effort when you get time to do it.

All right, with no more discussion, all in favor?

Aye. Aye.

All opposed? Motion is carried.

The next item is a resolution requesting additional traffic studies and safety improvements. And this is for the intersection of Wilson's Mills Road and Fire Department Road. If you remember in the last conversations with the North Carolina DOT, their suggestion of the next step for trying to get something done at this intersection was to pass a resolution requesting these additional studies. And to send it in to and then I think at your last meeting, when we discussed it, you also asked once this was passed and we sent it to to also send it to our representatives.

Do we have paperwork on this? I don't see it in here. The next 1 I saw was the plotter.

It would have been, um, I think it was. Attached in the top part of your agenda.

Oh, okay.

Separate. It was an add on that was the amended agenda.

I make a motion that we approve the resolution requesting additional traffic studies and identification of safety improvements at the intersection of Fire Department Road and Wilson's Mills Road.

Second. I have a motion that we approve the resolution requesting additional traffic studies and safety improvements by Councilman Brown, seconded by Councilman McGowan. Any more discussion?

Yeah, I just want to, before we vote on it, do we need to, Leanna, read this resolution? Does it need to be read?

It doesn't have to be. I mean, I can, or we can for public safety. If you like, um, it's pretty general just saying that that's, I mean, that's up to you, but it's available at town hall or online or whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And this is it on the, on the screen as well, because I just want to make sure that people know that we're trying to do something.

Um, uh, my question. Of course, I've seen all this other stuff about all these studies that's been going on. My concern is in August when Wilson Mills High School opens, how much I would wish that this study be made after the opening of wilson mills high school so that we can get some kind of a feel because they'll hear at that stop at that stop sunday when you've got of course i know they don't let out at the same time but still when the elementary school and the high school and of course now the high school is going to be a lot different this year because it's not going to be a whole lot of it's not going to there'll be no juniors and seniors there'll be very few sophomores probably So the traffic is going to be much worse, in my opinion, from what I've seen and from what I know about schools and stuff. But two years from now, when you're putting... all four school grades in there, you're looking at, in my opinion, a very, very major situation where the traffic is going to be unreal in that afternoon and the morning times when Wilson Mills High School when the morning comes and when the afternoon is and they're leaving, I think it's going to be just atrocious, my honest opinion, because I've seen it happen at Corinth. I've seen it happen in Clayton as they grow. I mean, it's just... And they had it. Well, Collin didn't have it much better, but I think the study needs to be done after the school starts because they need to see what that school traffic is going to do to this intersection because I think it's going to be, in my honest opinion, I think it's going to be terrible.

It most likely will be. And just so you know, Wendy has coordinated two meetings now with... all the interested parties about the traffic at the high school, Johnston County Public Schools, the town, including the police department and fire and DOT was invited to both of those. They didn't come to the first one and they were the people who should have been here at the second one were unable to come on that date. So our next meeting for that group is going to be in September, which will be after school has started and they've had a few weeks to figure out what the traffic flow is going to be because they're taking all of that in consideration when they. when they worked up the bus routes and the car routes for students coming and going from the high school. So once we know kind of what the traffic flow is going to be and DOT is involved in that meeting as well, that we do know that it's going to affect it somehow because some of the buses and certainly some of the students are going to come down Main Street and then turn left on Fire Department and come up to us.

I think it's going to be up to Wendy to make sure.

Do you think we'll have to have an officer down there at where Wilson Mills and Wilson Mills or Wilson Mills and Fire Department Road Because there's going to be unreal traffic and obviously we need to get the buses done through there as quick as we can.

It was brought up at the last meeting about having someone direct traffic at Fire Department Road in Main Street. But not at Wilson Mills Road. Not at Wilson's Mills Road.

I'm not sure that would be safe for an officer to stand out there in the middle of that. People running back and forth, these big trucks and all. But yeah, I'm going to echo that timeline. Let's make sure we do it during school session and make sure we do it at the appropriate times. Don't just have a calendar out there from lunchtime to about 1.30 p.m. We need counters out there like a 24-hour thing because people are going to do it.

That's what we requested the last time that they put the counters out. So we will request it again, but we aren't in charge of the counters. But now they did say the last email that we discussed at the last meeting, the emails that I forwarded to everybody from the DOT representatives, they did make note that those last counts were not done during school hours. during school time. So they know that that needs to be done. Although, you know, the one engineer said that although it wasn't done during school time, the counts were still high. But it's not about the amount of traffic and the congestion of traffic. It's not about that. With DOT, it is about the crash history, the fatality. That's how they...

Or if somebody's got public funds that they can fund him.

They always seem to function. dot on on present stats and and past stats they are they don't look yeah they're not very proactive and that's why i'm asking you know wendy and you to when you have these meetings you just be really assertive that they think in the future but they don't think in the future i.e the fatalities do we have to wait for one in the future before we get a light or something i'm just saying they got to look at it and go that high school and middle school are going to be massive just like jd says or jc says and And we need to have something done anticipating the future problem.

And one thing when y'all meet is we're talking about a T intersection, but we're also talking about what feeds those intersections. We're talking about Powhatan Road and people are going to start coming by the police station just like I do when it's backed up. I'm going to go down to Gravel Drive because I don't care if we get dirty or not. And I'm going to come over and I'm going to come down by the old push balls right up here. And I'm going to go out on Wilson's Mills Road there. Because it's the feeding, what's feeding into that intersection. It's just not the intersection alone per se. It's what feeds into those.

Absolutely.

We have had

All of these we have brought up all of these. I will tell you that the increased traffic from the high school is not a very solid argument with dot because I'll tell you, like I told you the last time and dot would tell you our representatives would say the same thing that they were standing right here when they were approached from Johnson County schools. about the location of this high school, their recommendation was to not put it where it is. And so because they knew that it was going to be an issue. And that wasn't taken into consideration. And not that we're very glad that we're getting high school. Wilson's Meals is glad that we're getting high school. But the recommendation from DOT was because of traffic to not put it in this location.

So we have to pay for it.

Well, they realize that it's a problem. And they realize that they are also a reactive agency. And they are frustrated about that as well. That's the way the state works.

Right, I understand. They have to be reactive because they don't have the funding that they probably need. They're restricted on funds, probably more so than any of us really know with all the building that's taken place in this state.

They're restricted on common sense, though?

Well, may, but I know funding, if they had deep pockets, I think with what they've met with, they would see the real life safety hazard, and they would do something immediate. But they just can't pull funds out, and so they're having to juggle that with Wake and Mecklenburg County, too.

They are, and just to put it into perspective, and I'm... here for what the town needs, I'm not defending DOT. But if you really step back and look at all of the intersections that have issues and could potentially be fatal, dangerous, they're congested, that is Johnston County in 2026. And they can't fund every single one. And this is coming from their explanation, which makes sense if you think about it. That's why they have to be reactive because if they don't have the data to back up what is most important, they don't know where to put their money. I mean, I'm not saying they don't know where to put their money, but they have to put their money in the places that have already shown them that it's a problem. And again, not defending them. I'm just telling you, these are the conversations that we've had with them. Everybody's frustrated about the fact that they're not proactive or that they can't be because of their funding, but I hate the saying it is what it is, but this is how they work.

Let's think outside the box for a minute here. And we're going head to head all the time with DOT. Let's take DOT out of the picture for a moment and let's turn over and look at our own facilities right here, our own capabilities. And I want to look over to this end of the table. What would prevent us from forming not an auxiliary police force, but a traffic safety division of volunteers? And you're only talking having to use these people at events like park things where the officers are busy inside, where somebody can be out there just trained to just direct traffic and has communication with the officers. But I could see it every school day out here. We could put one on Powhatan Road. on uh we could put one on main street and fire department one down here on wilson's mills and fire department another one up by the the general stuff like that we could use these people and i'm sure there we can find some volunteers somewhere that would put on a shirt and a vest and be happy to go out and and help out well i'll bet we could find them they don't have to be able to do a thousand push-ups either just direct traffic why can't we do that think outside the box The only cost that I can see right now, of course, is outfitting them with some sort of a uniform and training. Take DOT out of the picture. Let's do something ourselves.

I don't think we can do that.

Why do you think we can't do it?

Yeah.

I'm not sure where the liability for that would be.

Well, let's look at it. Let's not throw it out the window.

I'm not saying we don't look at it, but I'm saying, in my opinion, the DOT is not going to be for that.

Where does DOT have to come into it?

Because it's on their road.

No, it doesn't matter. It's our police officers out on their road, just like they always do, JC. They can do it anytime they want. Sergeant Pedencoe out there right now in direct traffic, he doesn't have to call DOT. If we have somebody who's functioning under the direction of or is responsible to the police... They should be able to stand out there if they're trained and they're uniformed and willing to do it. There is liability, I agree. But let's think outside the box here. Let's remove DOT from this whole thing and try something on our own.

I think there may be other options. Honestly, I hadn't really thought outside the box other than DOT and knowing what's the wrecks that are going to happen. I think that's something maybe we can discuss next month and just brainstorm amongst us and think about what else we may be able to do. Of course, it's going to have to be budget-driven. Because, I mean, you're going to have to spend a little or do part-time officers to do that, whatever. But I like the idea of let's think outside about it, see what we can do.

Can we ask Sergeant Peden between now and then to just let's not reinvent the wheel? If you know of other departments that do it, just call them and find out how they do it and maybe get a copy of their policy directive, and then we can talk about it. Would you do that for us?

Yeah, I'd look into it.

Thank you. Is that okay with everybody? Leanna? It works for you, not me.

It doesn't hurt to check into it and see if it works.

Yeah, it's not doing a lot of research. It's just calling around, and if somebody says, no, we don't have it, say, do you know of anybody that does? And just go from there like a good investigation. Find out what's happening.

Leanna, what is the timeframe on the middle school being built?

I've not heard anything about that lately. Have you, Wendy?

The last I heard, the year after the juniors and seniors start, they're going to start building the middle school.

Well, I know they delayed it because the money that they're spending at Clayton High School forced them to delay it. starting Wilson Mills Middle School because they're putting so much money into the new Clayton High School. So they postponed the start of Wilson Mills, but that's going to be even a bigger mess when that school, let's say three years down the road, because I know Clayton's not scheduled to be through until the middle of next year. Not the beginning of next year, but because I talked with some people that was dealing with McLean High School, that their school is not, the new part of it is not going to be ready to the minimum of the middle of the next school year. It will not be ready for the beginning of 2027 and 2028. It won't be all ready until the beginning. the year 2028. But when that new middle school's in there, that's going to even make it so much more.

JC, let me ask you, or anybody else that has an answer to it, with two schools there, is there any sort of a timed release that they have?

Oh yeah, the middle school.

one time?

No, the middle school, the high school takes in at 7.15. That's the start. That's when they start classes. Most of the schools are out at 2 o'clock. The middle schools don't start until around 8, 8.15, and they don't get out until around 3 or 3, somewhere in that range. So there is a time difference there.

Okay.

it's still going to be a mess because then you're looking at two full hours in the morning and two full hours in the afternoon rather than an hour. So you're looking at it. I mean, I understand what you're saying. I'm not against what you're trying to say if we can do it. But I just think, and I understand the OT's point on it, in terms of where the high school is and the roads that go to them, I mean, there's really only one way. Yeah. I mean, and they've decided they're not going to make it wider and they're not going to do any work on it. I mean, it was amazing to me that that was the situation.

Yeah.

so uh we we never voted on i don't think he didn't there's a motion in a second so it wasn't because you'd read the motion again please it was sure i'll read it again let me get to it i thought we've already voted no i made a motion to approve um the resolution requesting additional traffic studies and identification of safety improvements at the intersection of fire department and wilson's mills roads second

I have a motion to approve the resolution from Councilman Brown, seconded by Councilwoman Riley. Any other discussions before? If no more discussions, all in favor? Aye. All opposed? Okay. Okay.

Just a couple of updates. I wanted to let you know that we did get We are in contact with the company who's working on the design for the town hall sign out front. They're working with the plans that we have from DOT where the right of way is. And before I bring you some design examples at your work session, one of the things that you'll need to start thinking about is whether you want to use the town seal or the logo. which are two different things. And just, you know, for the public's information too, if you all don't already know, the seal is the official emblem of the town. It was given when your charter was created and it will never change. That's the town seal. It's used for, you know, official documents. The logo is what was just approved a couple of years ago, which was the first logo that we've had. Right. And it can be changed.

Will this be up on with the sign, whatever it says, as part of the sign or?

I think one or the other should be, yes. Okay.

Logo.

We had just town hall in the building and we're accused of being a generic town hall, but. Yeah, so I would think one or the other.

We have one of the best logos in Johnston County, so I say throw it out there.

We do, but also keep in mind it would be very expensive if three, five years down the road you change your logo. So that's the only thing, and so that's what you just need to think about. And whenever we meet at the work session next week, we should have some example drawings from the contractor, and we'll have one of each so that you can – Look at it and see what you like better.

Will it be lighted?

Yes. Yes, it will be lighted. And just a reminder that I think you've all gotten an email from Sharnell about Founders Day on August 22nd. This will be our 30th anniversary. So we're gearing up for a good crowd on that. And the town... Booth would have representatives just like we did at Touch Truck. So if you haven't already responded to her about what time you'd like to be there, please do so.

Can we go over that again?

Say again?

Can we go over the setup? Is this not the place to do it?

The setup?

If we have that, again, if we have that table set up with the entire town there, You know, all the directors and employees and everybody sitting at the one table because it's in the shade. Not that I don't like to see them, but I look at everything as a citizen walking by going, I don't know who to talk to. I don't know anything about it. And I'm just going to go over here and get me some popcorn and I'll talk about it later. But if you got just two people there, a council member, And the admin person, like I volunteered to sit with Jen, two people, it's open. People look at that and go, I can go up and talk to them. I don't feel like I'm being, you know, I forget what the word would be, but it's more welcoming just for two instead of, you know, all the town council or not council, but all the employees sitting behind the table. I wouldn't go up to that table. I know everybody. I wouldn't do it. If it was just two people sitting there and it said a council member, that's all. And it said director of HR. I go, Ooh, I got an HR question. I'll go talk to her. I like that much better than everybody sitting behind one table in the shade.

Also, if you don't have your name tag and you haven't gotten it from Emily, make sure you see Emily and wear that on that day. Right.

I just hope we look at that seriously because I look at it as a citizen. It's not welcoming for, 12 people behind a big table. I mean, I love them all, but still.

What'd you say?

I wouldn't know where to go. I mean, everybody go grab a chair and go somewhere, sit somewhere else under the building.

So that people can make sure that they know who they're coming to talk to. All right. That's all I have. Thank you. Uh,

Ms. Holden, point into Parliament.

You have in your packet, the first thing on the agenda for me is requesting approval of the plotter. You did approve this with the budget this year, but due to the amount when I went back in to order it, it is over the threshold that we can approve. Okay. So we just need a general approval.

What did we approve? How much?

The original amount was $76.54. It should be on the second page to that part. Some of the prices had gone up, so I deleted one package of the replacement cartridges and one pack of the larger paper for now.

Are we going to need that paper?

I was going to ask. We may later. Those two items. Some of these smaller items can just come out of departmental supplies. I mean, we'll move on. This is basically about making sure that you approve it because it's over the $5,000 threshold.

Yeah, but I don't know that we're to the point where we remove paper.

Well, something else that as department heads, we're also trying to learn to look at now is the fact of just because it's July 1st and we have a new budget year doesn't mean all of our money's there on July 1. So we're also learning how to spread out the things that we need throughout the year as the money comes in with the tax rolls.

My question, it says 771388. And then it says 765412. Why are we asking for less than what we need there?

Okay, no. On the request for council action, on the top sheet, it has the current prices of everything. 768.

No, the 8018. Oh, there.

So the second page was previously. Yes, the second page was previously.

So now the correct amount you're asking for is $8,849.

As long as the prices haven't increased again since we ran this, yes.

Well, honestly, I think we just need to say whatever the cost when you order it. That way we don't have to come back and re-approve something.

Yes, you can absolutely do that. I'm making a motion that we approve the purchase of the above items, which is the printer, plotter, scanner, the warranty replacement ink cartridges, paper, format paper, all that. that we approve that for the planning department to be approved, allowing for some price fluctuation to be approved by our town manager.

Second.

Do I have a second?

Yes, I second.

Okay, I have a motion that we approve the total Subject to change, small changes as they get the thing because prices do increase every day. The motion was made by Councilman Brown, seconded by Councilwoman Dobbins. Any more discussion? If not, all in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Ayes have it. Thank you.

Thank you. The second item is I'm requesting a hearing, requesting for you to call a public hearing on proposed food truck ordinance changes. Planning board has looked at these. We've gone back and forth over them. We've had more food trucks trying to come in, and we just want to make sure we do what's going to be best for the town. So attached is what has been recommended by the planning board, along with a copy of the property owner consent form that they felt like we needed to have to make sure we didn't have places that were left unclean. And if you could please call that hearing for your August 17th meeting.

Wendy, is this a good time to ask a question about it or not?

Sure.

Under number five, property must be kept clean and left clean upon departure, where the following fines will apply. Who's going to be the judge of that?

That would be Cleber.

And he'll decide if it's clean or not clean?

Mm-hmm.

If they're leaving trash behind, that's the plan of Mordskansar.

If they're leaving trash behind or letting the place plates and napkins be all over everywhere, we'd... You know, I might suggest, and I know we have to talk about it later, but I might suggest first offense is a warning, a written warning. I don't, I just don't see food trucks are, are, are actually vitally important anymore. Um, and I just don't see slapping somebody in a food truck, $500 for something that may be debatable, but give them a warning. I don't know how the council feels about it. Leanna.

Honestly, I would think that, uh, the first time it happened, you would kind of give them a warning. And then you wouldn't call that a first offense. I mean, you don't have to say you're going to give them a warning. Just say, you know, you're going to go up there and you're going to say, hey. Y'all are not leaving this place the way it should be kept. And if it continues, then the first offense will be a $500 fine. I would hope we would do it that way. I don't think we want to sit up there and go, the very first time I see a little bit of trash, we're going to fine you $500.

I'd like to see it in writing, though. Give it to them in writing and say, there it is, because maybe they've got to give it to the boss.

Yeah, keep it coming.

That is something we can discuss if that's what you choose to change next time. We are making them sign part of their zoning permit, their temporary use permit. The additional standards would be included with that. So whatever you put in place is what we would put together.

Sign a popular warning also. Perfect.

We can add that in there if that's what you so choose.

I like that. I don't know about anybody. I guess JC does.

I would definitely like where it would at least be a warning before we give a first offense. I mean, that way, that's my opinion.

If they keep it trashy, that's a first offense. Then your first offense would be a warning. You can't say something and then say, next one's going to be your first offense. No, that's your first offense. I agree. Counselor, how collectible are these fines? They just look good on paper.

Yeah, I mean, that would probably be a bit of a challenge. But hopefully the fine would be enough of a deterrent. You probably have to collect it in the nature of a civil action, so small claims.

About like somebody with a bunch of junk at their house. What we've been dealing with for years.

What do we charge for those fines, Wendy? Trash at your house that you don't clean up.

If we have to clean it up, then they have to reimburse the town back, plus the $200 administration fee.

So $200, here we are charging them $500 for leaving a little trash. My feeling is $500 is a little bit steep. I'd like to see all of that scaled back a little bit. $500 is... Go ahead.

Think about what you would like to see and we can definitely make those changes as it's adopted next.

I'd like to see something like, well, of course you got your warning. And then the second offense, I would look at, I would look at 250 or 200. Yeah. And then I'd look at 500 and then a thousand. I just like to keep it sensible and real. And I, you know, these guys, these folks talk amongst themselves and they might just say, stay away from Wilson's Mills. And that's not going to help us when we have Founders Day and everything else. Let's be a little bit lenient.

Okay. Just to be clear, this doesn't come into play for any town event.

Okay. That's fine. That's fine. All right. I was using that as an example. But still, if they set up here like next to the barbershop, that's certainly not a town event. They're just there. But if we hit that person and we're going to turn around and we're going to ask them to come out to Founders Day at the park, they may just not go. Nope. But if we're a little bit kinder to them.

I'll rework that.

If they get fined three times, I wouldn't think we'd want them back.

Well, that's true, too.

But I'm looking at the first time, and I'm thinking... With these fines, we might want them to keep coming back.

If we keep these fines in place, we could afford our own food truck.

I'd like to make a motion, Mayor Protean. I make a motion that we call for a public hearing for the UDO Article 10.1.10 food trucks. On what day is that?

August 17th. I got a motion that we...

Schedule a public hearing for proposed food truck ordinance. That motion was made by Councilman Brown, seconded by Councilwoman Dobbins. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Now, you are going to look at maybe when this public hearing occurs that the numbers could be changed.

The suggestions you just made should be in your packet for that night.

Thank you.

The last thing I have is we have an annexation request for Wilson's Mills Fire Department Station 3 along Gordon Road. In your packet, you have the resolution directing the clerk to investigate a petition. You also have a certificate of sufficiency, and you have the resolution calling for a hearing.

I make a motion we call public hearing for August 17, 2026 at 6.30 p.m. at Wilson's Mills Town Hall, Council Chambers at 40838 Wilson's Mills Road, Wilson's Mills, North Carolina.

Need to do the resolution directing the court to investigate. I'm sorry, say that again. Need to do the resolution directing the court to investigate petition first. It's agenda item C3. Agenda item C3.

While he's... Go ahead. I can make it now real quick. I make a motion. We approve a resolution directing the town clerk to investigate petition of annexation Wilson's Mills Fire Department Station 3 parcel ID 05105022A as an alpha. I second.

We have a motion by Councilman McGowan, seconded by Councilwoman Riley. Any more discussion? All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed?

Now do I make it for the hearing? Correct? All right, I make a motion. We call a public hearing for August 17, 2026 at 6.30 p.m. at Wilson's Mills Town Hall Chamber, Council Chamber at 4083A, Wilson's Mills Road, Wilson's Mills, North Carolina.

I would note for the record that the certificate was sufficient. That's in your packet as well, but just for public sake.

We have a motion that we call a public hearing for August the 12th, 17th at 630 at Wilson Mill Town Hall Chamber at Wilson Mills Road, Wilson Mills, North Carolina. And it was sufficient. Is that what the term you wanted to use? That was made by Councilman McGowan, seconded by Councilwoman Dobbins. Anybody got any more discussion? If there is no more discussion, all in favor?

Aye. All right.

All opposed. Okay. All right. Police Department.

You have the papers in front of you. The first would be to approve or deny moving forward with the Axon body camera contract.

I have a question for you, Sarge. Under the ship two, bill two, et cetera, et cetera, who lives at 10100 Buffalo Road, Clayton?

That should have been changed. It used to get delivered to Lieutenant Hilliard's house because they have problems finding the address, but he was supposed to change that on this contract.

Okay, so Bill 2 and Ship 2 are the same address now? Railroad Street?

No, they're 4083 Wilson's Mills Road now.

Oh, okay, so that's changed too. It says here, bill to Wilsonville's police at 100 Railroad Street.

Yes.

I'm looking at page one.

No, mine says differently.

Okay, that's okay. All the paperwork's going to show where it gets delivered and who pays for it, right?

Yes.

Okay. Okay.

I just got one question. Yeah, go ahead with yours, Ole. Was this in the budget?

It was. It's another one of the items that's above my threshold, so it needs to come to you. This is also a contract, so you have to approve the actual contract.

How much above what we approved?

My threshold is $5,000. This is what was in the budget.

So we're not spending any more money?

No, this was in the budget. All right, that's a lot of money. Yes.

Sorry, what's the, just curious here, I'm looking at the pricing page, and I know we're going to prove this whole thing, but still, what constitutes a license, pro license bundle versus a basic license bundle? I see quantity of four on the basic and one on the pro. So what makes a pro so much more expensive? Yeah.

The pro license bundle is that gives you certain permissions to do certain things with the body cams, such as assigning them to people and everything.

Okay. So it's sort of the umbrella.

Basically to be the administrator.

Okay. That's what I needed.

One administration license and then the rest are user license.

Okay. Are we using Axon right now?

We are not.

We are not. Who are we using?

We use Wolfcom.

Okay, so that's why there's got to be all kinds of cords and docking kits and everything. Okay, that's fine. That's all I have.

So moving forward, I don't know, how long have y'all been using whatever you're using now?

We've gone for about three years.

Okay, so in three years, Axum's been around a long time. They've been around, they might have been one of the first ones in body cans. So in three years, we're not going to have to readdress going with another company.

No, with this, with this five-year contract on the third year, they provide all new equipment. Okay. And you can just keep the contract going as long as.

So they'll provide new equipment and at no cost to the town.

Every three years. Yep.

Okay. All right. But, but, and also after that five years, Axum has been around long enough that, that,

we don't have to worry about switching to another body cam company correct yeah all right do we have a motion go back to the beginning here make a motion we approve uh moving forward with the axon contract as presented

We have a motion to move forward with the axon contract made by Councilman McGowan, seconded by Councilman Brown. Any more discussion? All in favor? Aye. All opposed?

Aye. The second would be approve or deny moving forward with the vehicle purchase of the 2026 Chevrolet Tahoe.

Again, this was already included in the budget.

Leanne, a quick question. I thought we, why am I thinking we didn't require one this year?

Just one. I think there were two originally on there, but there is one.

Okay, and there's only one in the budget?

Okay. Okay.

Do I have a motion?

Are we going to have to come out of the general fund on this? Or what are we doing with that? No, this was part of the budget. Oh, part of the budget. Okay.

We already approved this one vehicle. Okay. But he had ordered two. Right. But we only approved one, if I remember correctly. So the other one we won't get. But we've already approved this. Got it. All right. Thanks.

I make a motion that we approve Moving forward with the vehicle purchase for the police department. Second.

Okay, I have a motion that we continue moving forward with the vehicle purchase made by Councilwoman Riley, seconded by Councilwoman Dobbins. All in favor? Aye.

I will ask you, is this going to replace something or are we going to?

I think it's adding to the fleet.

Yeah. All right.

Last would be to approve or deny moving forward with red speed. tell me a little more about about red speed and um this is a uh a company that in was october 1st 2025 the general assembly approved to uh put speed cameras in school zones so they will put at no cost to us they will put speed cameras in the speed zones i mean in the school zones and um If you're caught speeding during school hours in the school zone, they will get a $250 fine, basically. And it's not criminal. It's a civil fine. Yeah.

So what do they use to detect?

It's a camera that detects speed.

Is it radar or LIDAR?

uh it's radar okay and and and is the so who who provides the equipment for this red speed so they come out and calibrate that that radar yeah how often um it's calibrated it calibrates itself every so often and

I'm not sure exactly how often they come out and calibrate it.

Yeah, because, I mean, you know, I can see my son speeding through there, and I get a $250 bill. And the first thing I'm going to ask is when's the last time that thing was calibrated? Oh, two years ago? I'll see you in court. I'm going to be honest with the counsel. I'm not for it. I don't like them. To me, it's just like law enforcement sitting on a bridge with a radar calling somebody else that says that I'm speeding. That's hearsay to me. I don't like that. It's the same thing as sitting behind the bush waiting for me to speed by. I just don't like them. Plus, I thought it was criminal. I thought speeding... Is speeding not a criminal if you stop...

It's a criminal offense if we stop... Well, if it's over a certain speed, then it's... If it's over 15 miles per hour... then it's a criminal offense. But with this, they're only doing civil penalties. They're not doing criminal. The way the General Assembly approved it.

Right, the last part. The way the General Assembly approved it is that since it's relied on a camera system, not an officer there personally observing it, that it's not intended to be a criminal penalty with points on your license, that sort of thing.

Okay, because I was wondering about that. Because if you stop me, I go to criminal court. But if that thing was to issue me a ticket, it would be civil. Yeah, it's just not civil.

Yeah.

That's just my opinion.

I spent, I literally, do you have a question? I was just going to say, I literally spent maybe an hour or two hours. Whoa. That's okay. It's not you. I literally spent a couple of hours looking at this thing and I have so many notes on here that I can't, I can't summarize them all at once. So let me, let me do the best that I can. And let's, let's start back at the beginning. And I, geez, that thing does go up and down, doesn't it, Emily? Yeah. Paragraph two of the proposal right there says free program. I would dispute that. I would dispute nothing is for free. There's going to be money exchanged. We're going to have to. I can foresee us having to come out of pocket on a couple of things, but I'll get to that in a minute. Let's look at the beginning of this whole thing. And the state has authorized this sort of thing. And of course, the State Board of Education has gone along with it. The citizens of North Carolina have just been slammed with these speed cameras that Councilman Brown is talking about all over the state, everywhere in the state. A lot of folks don't like that. But then again, as we have discussed, that anywhere you go these days, you're going to be on camera. So that's fine. And in my opinion, if it stops one abduction of a child, then it's probably worth it down the line. So I'm not opposed to it, maybe just how it's enforced sometimes. But the information gathered is very important to me. So you have something like that. Then here in Wilson's Mills specifically, we have put cameras paid for by the subdivisions. We have put cameras on the entrance and exits of three subdivisions that I'm aware of right now in Wilson's Mills. A lot of folks didn't like that, according to what I read in Facebook, and I understand that. Now we're going to go ahead and put cameras... on in front of the schools. And I fully understand that too. So here's my question. They're going to come out. They're going to install it. They're going to maintain it. They're going to look after it. They're going to do all kinds of stuff for a fee. Now, They're not doing it for free, Sergeant. They're going to get paid through the monies that are garnered from this in the form of fines.

60% of it goes to Red Speed. 40% of it goes to the school board.

Actually, I think it's a 70-30 split according to this. I was reading a 70-30 split. 70 goes to the school board. 30% goes to... Them or us, and we get, we, we take care of red speed or red light, whoever they are through that. And we get some funds, but what we're going to have to do the bottom line is that thing, the Leanna and the chief will probably have to go out and you'll go out and figure out where we're going to put this poll in the ground. with radar, with cameras, with lights and everything else. We're going to have to figure out where to put these two caution 1000 feet. You're going to be in a speed zone. Those two signs. I got a funny feeling that after school hours and sometime in the summer, somebody is going to have a nice speed camera sitting on their mantle at home. Why? Because nobody's paying any attention to that down there and they're going to sit there. I don't like having something like that that's being paid for sitting out on a dark street down in front of the high school all that time. But anyway, what happens after they come out, they take care of it, they calibrate it and everything else? What happens liability-wise when somebody comes out and they smash into that pole? and they get injured because of that pole or the the the lights and everything else falling down. What I'm getting at is who's going to pay for that? Well, probably Red Speed or whoever it is, is going to take care of all of that. But there's going to be a lawsuit involved And Wilson's Mills, if it comes to that, is probably going to get nailed. I don't see anything in here that says red light or whoever they are is going to take care of it. I can see a lawsuit that's going to require a lot of counselors' time. It's going to require Leanna's time and the police department. They're going to smack everybody. And since we're approving it, they're going to probably throw all of us into the hopper, too, just because they can. I see a lot of different things happening to it. I see a lot of effort on the part of Leanna having to oversee this. I see a lot of effort on the part of the police department having to designate an officer or several officers to be the monitoring officer and the one who has to look at it, figure out if it's legit or not, sign it and putting it in a certified mail and mailing that thing off.

We don't have to do any of the mailing.

Okay, they do it.

They set everything up. They send us a package at the end of the month to review and approve. And supposedly, I haven't seen it, but supposedly it doesn't take a very long amount of time.

That's fine. But there's going to have to be an officer or several officers that are going to do this. My question is, are they going to do it on town time? Are they going to do it on overtime? No.

It would probably be me and it would probably be done on town time.

On town time. I think you have better things to do than sit there and look at pictures and send out fines. The other thing is... We don't send out the fines, Red Speed does. Well, okay, Red Speed. But I think you have better things to do as a police sergeant than sitting there looking at these cameras. The other thing is, I just forgot what it was, but Leanna is going to have to appoint a hearing officer. That's what it says in there. Read it, Sergeant. It'll say the town administrator or the town appoints a hearing officer. So if Wendy gets that ticket and she wants to appeal it, she's got to come in and make an appointment. She's got to have there has to be a hearing officer who is going to be the one that's going to decide whether or not she has a case. She's going to have to come in with a statement and an affidavit. If she's got an affidavit, she's got to sign it. She's got to get it notarized. There's a lot of work going into this thing, all to try and stop somebody speeding on a road that's going to be two lanes wide at the maximum. It's one step above a dirt track, and it's going to be loaded with school buses. And I just don't see the benefit here. I really don't. And I don't see any more. I don't want any more cameras. I'm tired of cameras. So anyway, I've got a lot of notes and I'm probably missing half of it, but you don't want to hear it. I just see a lot more. I see Connie having to work harder too. Connie is going to have to do stuff with the money and she's going to have accounting problems she's got to figure out. And there's going to be transfer of funds. And the school board is going to wind up with 70%. And whatever we do with our 30, that's written in here. But it just says the school board is going to get 70% of all of this stuff. OK, I don't trust the school board getting 70 percent of this thing and they don't have to do anything. On top of that, the school board funds and their money is run by the Johnson County Board of Commissioners. I don't trust them either. Okay, so there's where the money's going. 70% is going to go, and the Board of Commissioners is going to have a say-so of what happens to that, and so is the school board. We just hope they apply it properly, but I don't trust those folks with 70% of that money.

I would just add...

I think I'm done.

I would just add that... And I made the assumption that it was the high school since we've been talking about high school.

Say elementary school.

And that's what I was going to ask, especially when we got a school resource officer in the parking lot somewhere, and we got one of our other officers tied up on blue light duty.

We wouldn't have to have that officer tied up on blue light duty if we had that red speed camera.

How many times have they stopped a speeding car since they've been sitting out there? How many tickets have been written by that officer sitting there on blue light duty?

I don't know how many tickets, but I know they have written tickets. Okay.

One of my concerns as I was reading this is the public records, .24. Once there's something issued, it's now a public record. If you read through that, people get hacked all the time. I'm not sure, and counselor might be able to answer this, but it's not going to change my mind on it, so you don't have to, counselor. Are we liable if Red Speed gets hacked and somebody's personal information because we got a camera that we've agreed to go into contract with? That's another reason I'm a no. But I'm just one.

Yeah, basically it's somebody in Red Speed that's going to have the opportunity to go in and look at people's records.

If you would want to put this to a later date, I could have somebody from Red Speed come and talk to y'all if y'all would like.

I don't think it's going to change my mind.

Yes, I'll say that too.

I can contact them and have them come to... the August meeting and have them present?

Personally, I just don't see the benefit outweighing the cost, and the cost isn't always monetary.

I'm sure they can answer your question.

Well, I don't think they can on that. I just see a lot of effort administratively from the police department and also from Leanna's office and Connie to outweigh the cost of something like this.

But we already have police officers at our schools. I mean, and they're out, they're already out there. So we're, I mean, we can discuss it further. But we already have police officers that are assigned to these schools. And most schools, they're out in the middle of the road.

They're not protecting speed, though.

No, but when most of these... Use the mic so I can hear you, Harold. I can't hear you. Use the mic when you talk to them.

I said most of the time the SROs are in the road directing traffic. Ours at Wilson's Mills, I've never seen. We got somebody that has to do blue light duty. So we have two officers tied up at the Wilson's Mills Elementary School. If you go to any other school, go by Triple S, go by the News Charter, their car's sitting out in the road. that's going to be a deterrent for speeders if they see the car sitting out in the road. Now, if the police officer is busy and whoever it is there on blue light duty is there, then maybe. But my point is we have a school resource officer assigned to Wilson's Middle School. If we're concerned about the speed and getting that car out there with them blue lights on in the road like other schools have, Because I feel like this one up here at the high school is going to be out. He's going to have to be directing traffic out there.

Yeah, but maybe Red Speed has more information than...

Explain it a little bit further.

Yeah, they would have more. Because you don't know of any other schools that has this, right?

I know Smithfield's in talks with them right now for all their schools. Really? Okay.

Are they bringing Red Speed in to talk?

I have no idea if they brought Red Speed in to talk, but I know they're in talks with them right now. I don't know if they've approved it yet or anything.

Leanna, what is your opinion on this?

I have not had time to research it. It was given to me right before the agenda went out, so I've not even had a chance to read it. It looks to me like it is a lot of administrative duties, but again, I haven't had a chance to talk to Chief about it. and go over what they have gone over things about all of this with him. So I don't even know enough to talk about it. I would prefer to have time to look over it before I even made a recommendation.

Rather than just voting a simple no now, I would go along with Carolyn's idea and Doris's to have them come in. I'll hold off.

Yeah. I haven't said much about it, but... The section two that I'm reading right now, I didn't have time to read all of it, but I have problems with that section two where it says within seven business days, we have to govern and body shop provide with the name and contact information. I think you talked about that. The thing that bothers me down here is that we have to come up with a process for

That's the hearing officer they talk about.

We're having to come up with a lot of different people, and that doesn't say anything on here about these people. If you're going to have a hearing, you don't want to have a hearing when these people are working.

Well, let me add to that, if you don't mind, JC. If they go through the hearing process with a hearing officer, et cetera, and they don't get what they want, and they're still liable for it, they have the option to take it to civil court and have a magistrate rule on it, correct? Now you're really talking having to have evidence, and they'll probably come in with a lawyer, and then we've got to come in with our lawyer. For me, there's a lot of questions about...

We've got to provide them with somebody to review and approve citations. If somebody appeals, then we've got to provide a body to listen to it. But it doesn't say anything about when those bodies are going to be. And obviously, somebody that we appoint, they might not want to be on that. They don't want to do it while they're doing their work. So... Are we going to have to pay them? There's a lot of questions. There's a lot of questions here that I don't see us approving, and I see us getting some answers from these people. I mean, I'm with Councilwoman Riley and with Councilwoman Dobbins, and I think we need a lot more than just reading this.

Yes, we do.

To make a decision. You know, I'm not against making people not speed through a school zone, but I'm not for... Well, the way it reads here, I'm going to have to hear more before I would ever vote yes. And right now, my vote would be no. How about we do this?

I'll make a motion. We table the moving forward with Red Speed until we have a Red Speed representative for us. Fair enough?

Do I have a second? Second. I got a question. Counsel, are you familiar with all this?

No. I've not seen this before, but I did read through all the materials that were in the packet.

All right. So in your opinion, not knowing any more about it would mean, you know, how collectible are these civil fines?

So they did have an enforcement mechanism where if they're unpaid, then the town can provide notice to DMV and the DMV will refuse to register the vehicle. So I think that does create a pretty high incentive for them to get paid.

One thing, they can wait up, I mean, their ticket can arrive in the mail up to 60 days after the violation. I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, let alone where I was 60 days ago, picture or no picture. Okay.

I just think this is opening the Pandora's box. Yeah.

We have a motion to table it until the next... Town Council meeting with the understanding that we would need to have what's the name of that company? Red Speed have a representative here to answer our questions. We have the motion. All in favor of that motion?

Aye.

All opposed? Aye. We will have We will table it until the next.

Or maybe I should have said name.

I mean, it was two to one. We'll table it to the next meeting. And I'd like to ask for our town manager to contact them and see if we can get some kind of representative to come and answer our questions.

I don't know about the town manager. I mean, how about the police chief? And he gets with the town manager. I mean, if she hadn't had time to look through it, that would be my, it doesn't matter.

Okay.

Ready for the vote?

We have a vote.

I was on A.

That was a name. You're right.

I'm sorry. Council member comments, please.

You sure you want this?

Sure.

Okay. Let me throw out the first one. Leanna, one thing that the Johnson County Board of Commissioners does that I do like is they publish their agenda. We may have a better chance at getting more attendance here by the citizens of Wilson's Mills if we can put out on Facebook and the email program we've got, etc., etc., what our agenda is going to be, what we're going to talk about. I mean, I try to do that for the development that I live in, and I just say it's going to be an important meeting because we're going to talk about whatever. But that's not enough. If we could put it out and just say, here's the agenda, and that people go, oh, I want to talk about that. Can we do that?

Yes. And we normally do. I think that's fallen through the cracks since the transition. Oh, okay. With the communication with, excuse me, Peter. So we'll get back on making sure that gets put on there.

Quick question for the police department. Wilson's Mills officers, when they retire, are they entitled to health care? Police, healthcare, retired police, any healthcare programs?

By the state?

By anybody. If you retired tomorrow as a Wilson's Mill sergeant, what are you doing for healthcare?

I have to buy my own insurance.

Okay, because I think that's coming out in the state somewhere. They're talking about some things, and I just want to see if we have anything for our officers.

We don't have anything specifically for officers, but we do have a policy for anyone who has 20 consecutive years with the town and retires after 20 consecutive years.

Is there a possibility we could look at something? You know, that's also if other departments don't have that, and I take it the smaller ones like us don't. That's certainly an employment opportunity here.

Are you talking about once they retire?

Yeah, when they retire.

Oh.

Depending upon how many years they put in with us.

Our policy would apply to police officers as well. It applies to all employees. Oh, it does? To be here consistently for 20 years or more and then retire.

Okay. They're entitled. What if an officer comes in and he spends his last 10 years here? He comes in from Pine Level or something. I mean, is there a possibility we could do something? It doesn't have to be the full boat, but depending upon the number of years they spent here.

We could put that on the list for next budget year.

Yeah, just look at it, see if it's going to be cost prohibitive. Okay, let's let that go. DOT, Leanna, DOT, I read, has approved five miles of Wilson's Mills Road for resurfacing. Where and when? What part of Wilson's Mills Road and do you have any idea as to when?

I've not heard anything about that.

I read it in the paper.

Okay. Sorry, I don't read it.

That's the only place I can see these things. WRAL.

At our next meeting, but as of now.

Maybe DOT, maybe it was on the JOCO report. I don't know, but it was approving five miles for Wilson's Mills Road. The last thing here is, you know how I am about towns that are having problems and making the news all the time. The town of Cary is the latest one. And the only thing I'm going to say about it is I read that the North Carolina Office of the State Auditor has a 2600 page report referencing the town of Cary's financial controls documentation that describes a culture of weak oversight by town elected leaders. And my question is, can we get a copy of this report or something that's going to show us the highlights of it? Because Cary messed up big time. And it's a lack of oversight. And I just want to make sure that we're covered for that. I don't want to be another Cary this time.

You're asking for a copy.

Yeah, there's a 2600 page report. I don't want I don't want to sit here and read 2600 pages, but perhaps someone has gone through it and has published the highlights of it as to what carries problems. So if it's public like it is, we're not doing anything sneaky, but I don't want to be another carry.

Well, I think you bring up a good point. And maybe it's something that finance could then help us to understand as well since she's been going back looking through stuff. Or Leanne, I'm sure she shares it with you or whatever. But I can, and I've said it before, but I'll say it again. come budget time, us sitting behind this desk, it's imperative that we look at it and we study it. We know what we're talking about because their town manager, and I'm not defending anybody, their town manager had a million dollar spending limit. And when he goes and he spends less than a million and then they have a problem with it because it was exposed to the public, I've got a problem with them.

Yeah, I do too.

So even though it reads that, We, as a council, just like they should have been as a council in other towns, we have got to know, if we don't know what's in a line item budget, we don't know what it means, the wordage, we got to ask. We got to know exactly what we're talking about in the budget station instead of just nodding heads. According to what I... Leanna is good in our finance, and everybody's good about letting us know. But it is our responsibility, just like it was Kerry and other towns' responsibility It falls back on us.

If we put the proper safeguards in place, if we haven't already, but if we need to add some additional safeguards, that's going to work for the council 20 years from now. That's what we want. We're not protecting ourselves right now all the time. I want to look all the way down the line to whoever comes and sits in this seat. So that 2,600-page report, I'm sure, is going to have a synopsis to it. And if we can go through there and then present that to... our directors and our town manager and say, are we covered with this? Are we covered with that? And how? Their town council is fully aware of some of these things. $121,600 for a video that the town people did for the councils on our retreat. $121,600 they spent on a dancing video to ABBA.

We'll see if we can get you a summary.

Kerry, you screwed up. I'm not real sure you're going to see a good comparison for us with Kerry. You made some of the smaller towns because their oversight is going to be different than our oversight compared to smaller towns. But with that said, we may very well go into that.

We may find something. So anyway, if we could do that, I would be very appreciative. Thank you. And that is all I have, sir.

I have 1 question I thought about the other day going down fire department road.

Maybe next year.

I know we didn't talk about it this year, but maybe next year. I know you don't have anything to do on Fridays, but if you look at these signs, like on Firepoint Road, that is awesome. We had talked about putting them in other locations two or three years ago when we got that one. Maybe looking at doing one here this year, maybe 10 years from now doing another. I don't know. They're really nice coming into town. I get to see it every now and then, but We got a lot of traffic, you know, on this end as well. I know they're expensive.

They are. And they were much more than we thought they were going to be when we planned on doing all five.

Well, and, and, you know, counselor might be able to work his magic on that endowment. We don't know. That might be a reason for it.

Any more comments? At this time, at 8.02, I will open the second form. If you have something to say, please come to the microphone, state your name and address, and keep your remarks to three minutes or less. With no one wishing to speak, I will close the forum at 8.03 p.m.

at this time mayor pro tem i make a motion that we go into closed session um one four three dash three one eight dot one one a adam parenthesis four parenthesis four uh economic development and we include wendy in that meeting um if need be and also uh closed session for one four three dash three one eight dot one one a parenthesis six uh personnel

We have a motion to include a general number six, the personnel. No. Okay. We have a motion for the record.

We're going to do the personnel portion first with the attorney, and then we'll invite Wendy into the second portion. Okay.

All right. So I've got that motion, the motion to go into closed session, uh, made by councilman Brown, seconded by councilwoman Dobbins, uh, All in favor? Aye. Aye. At this time, we'll go into closed session.

Warn me when you're going to smack that thing. If you could look into that.

yeah yeah i've i know from experience they have

I get it. I get it. But, you know, who knows? We might surprise yourself if we put it out there.