Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Should I make a motion to call the meeting to order? I'd like to make a motion to call the meeting to order. Second. I. Yes. Those in favor say I. Yeah. Those in favor say I. I. I. I. Okay. 5:30. It's ready to start the meeting. Uh, let's rise for the pledge of allegiance, please. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Angelina, would you please do a roll call for members present and absent? Present. Stephen Miner here. Paul Wright here. I'm already Matina's here. Okay. Motion for the adoption of the meeting minutes from March 4th. I make a motion to adopt last month's meetings. I'll second. All in favor? I I

We have four orders of business tonight. Um, our first is PLZBA 202600007 811 River Street. You please come up to the podium. State your um your name. You know the drill. She's back.

Nope. Oh, yeah. There it goes. Hi, uh, Lisa Rodriguez. Uh I am the architect for the project and uh our office is at 210 River Street. Um okay so um you've heard why we're here before but I'll um repeat. So the clients bought uh a house that turned out to be too dilapidated to renovate. So they have since torn it down. Uh it's an extra wide lot in the neighborhood. They're planning to replace it with a single family two-story frame residence and in the future build a garage. We're putting the foundation for the garage in now. Um event they live in New York City right now. Eventually they'll move up here to be closer to family and they'll finish building at that time. Uh we're here for a variance for distance to the property line. The ordinance is based on the module of properties that is common to the neighborhood which are a lot narrower than this property and require that the building be within 5 ft of the property I believe it is. And we're asking for a variance to have the rear of our building to be 25 ft uh I think it's 2 in from the property line. property line veers off. So, it's closer in the front than that to the uh adjacent property. I think that's it. It's a nice project. It's a big investment for the neighborhood to build a single family house there. They will not be able to sell it for the amount of money that they're paying to build it. There's a correction I think from the last time it was to be made out of plans, right?

We were adding a dimension. Yeah, it was the back dimension, right? Yeah. So, since the property line uh the property is a parallelogram and our buildings rectangular, uh we had shown the front property lines and one from the rear corner to the side, but we did not show the the northern northwest corner to the side lot line. And that indeed turned out to be the farthest distance to the property line. So uh we were asked to add that dimension so that you could give that specific variance.

I have no questions. I don't I got nothing. Do we have to do seeker on this? Secret. Yeah, it's type two. You have to see that type. Yes. No secret. No secret. No, it's it's type two. So I mean you can you can do a motion to declare classified. Yeah. I make a motion to declare this as a type two seeker. Second. All in favor say I. I. I. So now I don't have to read. No. We're not done with you. We just got to go through protocol here. Um I'll make Well, do we need have any is there any further discussion? Anybody out there?

Somebody did come to speak in favor of the project if you would like to hear her. I don't I don't think I I'm going to make a motion to approve this request. So, no. Yeah. Is there anybody out in the public that they do want to come forward? Oh, there we go. Hi, Suzanne.

Hi, I'm Suzanne Spellellin. I live next door at 817 River Street and my landlady is Deborah Jackson who is the sister of the people who are building the house. So, um we are very excited about uh having her move or finally get to build this house and we're very much in uh approval of it. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else out there? How about how about online? Anybody online has any comments? Anyone on? No. Okay. All right. I'd like to move uh to approve the variance PL/ZBA 20260000

seven. Yeah, I understand that. Um the side setback. Uh the applicant is proposing a side setback of 21 feet 2 in and 25 feet 2 in requiring relief of 16 ft 2 in and 20t 2 in respectively. I think this variance is not substantial and it will not have an adverse on the neighborhood. I second that motion roll call the motion that you ask. Yep. All in favor? I I Did you want him to say that? Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Am I overstepping?

No, you're good. All right. And then I move that we approve also the second area variance on PLCBA 20260007 which is regarding the minimum building frontage coverage required is 80%. The applicant is proposing a 33.6% 6% relief of the 46.4% requested. I also believe that this will not have any substantial adverse effect on the neighborhood and I don't think it's substantial. I second that motion. All those in favor? I I

There you go. Okay, you're all set. Thank you. Okay. The second on the agenda is PLZBA 2026 0001610 Spring Avenue. Please come to the podium. State your um your name and your affiliation with the project please.

Hello board. How are you? Hi. Good. My name is You get holded. Yeah, it's probably better.

Old school as you can see. Um, my name is Dan Morelli, Morelli Design and Construction, and I'm representing the applicant, Mike Melville, who proposes to construct a woodframe warehouse to the rear of the property with a singlestory office attached to the front requiring the following area variances, and there's three of them. uh a side setback of 23 feet is proposed on the east side of the property where a minimum of 10 feet is permitted resulting in a request for 13 ft of relief. We actually just changed that yesterday to a lesser relief. Um the reason being is the planning department would like to see the building shifted three feet to give us some green space on this side. Angela was made aware of this today. Angelina was made aware of this today. Uh we had a pedestrian walkway on this side which we're going to shift this side. So instead of 23 feet we're at 20 feet. So the request would for relief would only be 10 ft on that particular variance and that's the only change we made. The second variance is for a front yard setback of 56 ft and we're exceeding the maximum permitted of 10 ft. So we're looking for relief of 46 ft. The reason for that is to get green space and parking in the front of the building to enhance the vacant site and put the commercial structure behind it. And the third variance is a singlestory office and warehouse building is proposed where a minimum of two stories is required. And the reason for that is because there's a grade differential on the site of a minimum of four feet which would raise the rear building which is the warehouse portion of the building. And to put a second story in, it's two stories in height and not two stories in floor levels. And to um put a second story on would would would ruin the the warehouse effect and also make the height of the building too tall. And to

give it some architectural feature, we put the office space as a single story space in front with the warehouse building towards the rear just to give it some differential and some architectural feature. So those are the three variances we're seeking tonight. What type of business is it going to be? Uh so uh right now it's going to be two leasable warehouse spaces in the back

uh with two leasable office spaces in the front. The property owner actually owns a uh siding company, siding and roofing company. So he's going to probably take one of the warehouses, one of the offices, at least the other two out. Thank you. You're welcome. That was that was that was my only question. Mr. Morell, should I I don't your business relation. Are you a current client or a former? My question, Mr. Morelli,

was if I have to recuse myself from voting tonight. I had no idea that you were involved in this project. I've retired from the business. I've sold my practice. There's no client relationship, but I wanted to do close that. Was Mr. Carelli a client of yours or was Mr. Morelli? Melli was not the Was he a client of yours years ago? Years ago. Okay. All right. But you have no current business relationship. No current business relationship in any way, shape, or form. I think the disclosure is sufficient and that you do not have to recuse yourself.

Okay. I'm not opposed to Mr. Miner not recusing myself. Sorry, I didn't recognize you. My eyes are going. I got nothing else to see any comments out there. The seeker in the public comment. Yeah. All right. You want to seek first? Yeah. Yes. Mhm. In regard to PL ZBA 2026-000016 as supported by the staff report, I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. Second. Okay. All in favor? I I

Yes. Is there anybody in the public that would like to make a comment or anybody online? Angie? No. No. Okay.

All right. Uh let's see. This is This is an area variance rate. Okay. I would like to move that the board approve the variance for PLZBA 20260016 which will be broken down into three parts. The uh the applicant is asking for a 10 foot relief side setback and I don't believe that it will have any substantial negative effect on the neighborhood and I don't think it's self-created. I second. All in favor? I I I

I would like to move that we accept and approve the front setback um relief of 46 ft where 10 ft is permitted but 46 feet is requested. Seems like there's going to be green space which will actually add a desirable change to what he's doing and I don't believe that it will have an adverse effect on the neighborhood. I second. All those in favor? I I.

Lastly, I move that we approve the singlestory office building um which the applicant has shown is really uh two stories high but actually one story. So, uh, I think that the two-story requirement that he is not fulfilling is fine and that we should approve that and that again it will not have an adverse effect on the neighborhood. I second that. All those in favor? I I You're good. Good to go. Good to go. Thank you.

Okay. Good to see you. Years. Have a good night. No handshake for me. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Good luck. Okay. The next order of business is PLZBA 2026 two uh 0015 1800 Mount St. Mary's Avenue. Please come to the podium. State your name and your relationship to the project, please.

Good evening. Jim Countryman. the owner of the property. Um, so we're proposing to convert the single family home into a two family home. Uh, one thing I just wanted to look at here, the, um, I just stopped over to measure the inside dimensions of the house. Uh, they're 37 long by 20 wide, which puts us at 740 square ft. Um, you know, we had the when I when I put forward the proposed plans, uh, the architect added square footage of just living space. Apparently, he deleted stairway, foyer, storage space, things along those lines. So, that should eliminate that uh 20 square foot relief that we would have needed per unit.

20 foot right at the end here. Well, I don't have any documentations to that. So, we would need documents because to reflect that or more, you don't need a Okay. Right. And well, that's what I'm saying is um but you you need to show that to the planning department. Okay. Suitable documentation from your architect or Okay. So, we table this table. So, I think we table we table it. Okay. Um, do you have to make a motion today?

The the plans that I did submit um, if we looked at to scale would show that. I don't know if that matters or not. Um, you know, just looking at um, on the first it says right here it's 700 I need glasses on mine. Uh, I might need them. 727 square ft. second floor 640 ft uh for the third floor which would combine to one unit at 13 and some oddund square feet. So that wasn't the issue. It was the first floor plan. Uh

your plan says that the first floor was 670 670 right and he excluded the entryway from there. You need to the board can't consider it the way the plants exist. Okay. I mean, they're inconsistent at best. Okay. So, I really think you you need to correct your plans. Okay. Resubmit to the to to the staff. Okay. Then let them decide whether or not you still have to come here. Okay. Sounds good. Um question. The youth variance was I'm just asking you guys uh was to convert from a a single family to a two family. Was that the issue or was the square footage of the units the concern?

Both. both. Okay. So, so yeah, so the converting from one to two was the use variance and then the area variance it's uh the square. Okay. Total square. Understood. Okay. Yeah. Very good. Okay. So, so the use variance is still an issue. The use variance is the issue. Okay. And the area variance is corrected basically by the architect giving me the footprint layout variance could be both. Okay. depending upon what documents you submit. I just have one question. Was parking an issue or a question that had been raised? It was a public comment.

Yeah, there was a there was a a letter or comment this afternoon from someone. Yeah. Okay. About it being tight basically. Okay. for parking.

The um the area in back of the house is approximately 60 by 60 of flat area before the hill and back. Um there's approximately 40 ft to the left of the house before the the next property line. So that would give ample space um if allowed for parking in addition to there is an existing driveway in the front of the house. Um so in in addition to that there would be ample space for parking. Well, and and to that, may I just in it seems like a lot of times applicants not our issue. No, parking is not our issue. Okay. Um I I just want to make sure that you're aware of the what we use as our use variance guideline, which is four. Okay. So, you know those. No, I'm sorry.

Why? Why don't you take this with you because you because he's got to come back anyways, right? We're tableabling this. Yes. So, it has to satisfy all four of those. All four. All four. So this is what you are referring to. Yeah. But this is this is not this is like travel. In other words, as you look at the house from the front, there's a drive on the left. You could extend that and put parking behind the house, right? Yes. Right there. So yeah, that could extend out. So that dirt path is part of your property. Yes. Yeah. So that there's about

You can't see it from here, but Yeah. from the left side of the house over the fire hydrant is approximately where the property line is. So that gravel area was parking. Yeah, they were using it as a garage back there. And then to the right of the house, Angelina, go to the right. Is that truck also area right there? That is the driveway. Uh so that's the driveway that's existing. And then that gravel path back there was another driveway that we're using. Um this is all grown in right now. But uh yeah, there's a a lot of space right here and I would say a great area of parking would be right back. But that's fair game for parking. Yeah, absolutely. So my suggestion, you know, for you for the community.

Yep. Because that seems to be a continuing concern as things move forward in the city is parking. Okay. So that should be part of the plan when I come back. It wouldn't hurt to put it in. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt. Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Glancing at this form. I believe everything in my proposal that I sent to Angelina was covers those covers. Okay. Just want to make sure there proposal was very thorough. Okay. I appreciate that.

I did my Angelina. She pushed me on that. You know the first proposes to pave and put a driveway in. Will we have to put time into that? No. It's already like traveled already. We wouldn't recommend like paving, but I know you don't recommend it. Yeah. So, so in other words, the neighbors are recommending it. Leaving it a gravel driveway would be preferable. Unfortunately, Angelina, leaving it a gravel driveway would be preferable over paving. No, we we will discuss that. We look into that and see what the zoning code says. Okay. All right. So once we are coming back

can we vote on the one variance? No if what why can they vote on the uh use variance if he doesn't so that in case he doesn't because right now the application seeks both. Okay. So I'm not going to we're not going to divide it. Okay. Okay. So when I ask the architect to update these plans yeah then the area variance will essentially be no longer required. it'll go away and then I'll be back here to request the use something to review. Okay. Yeah. So, when he updates it, you have to send it to me to take a look at it and see if your still requires that. Okay. Sounds good.

I I make a motion to table to table this till next month. Yeah. All those in favor? I I All right. All right. See you. Thank you very much. You guys have a great night. Appreciate it. Okay. 15. Right.

The next is PLZBA 2026 0018547 River Street. Please state your name as you come to the podium and your affiliation with the project. I think you said 18, but it's5. What's that? I think you said 18, but it's 15, isn't it? No, it's 18. Is it 18? We just did 15. Oh, sorry. Good evening, guys and gals. How you doing?

Good. Thank you. So after uh last meeting with you guys, we went back to the drawing board, took a lot of the things that had you guys had some concerns with and kind of tried to adhere to your concerns to make it a little bit more appealing on the project. So basically what we did was we um removed the um action element. So the P part of the logo we removed from that. We also I'm sorry, you said you removed what? The P part. the action element, the action symbol part of the logo. Thank you.

You're welcome. And then what we also did was redesign the style of the sign. So we made the sign more of a halo lit sign so it's not admitting as much light as the original proposal did. We also decided to move it closer to the roadway of which we were seeking exposure for in the beginning to keep it a little bit further away from the neighborhood. And we also reduced the size of the sign to be a little bit under 64 square feet total. So this way we are no longer in any issues with size on the amount of signs. So you're not requesting a variance on the size of the sign. This would be a variance on the number of signs. I believe

you're the variance is for both. For both. I apologize. already the building as it exists now exceeds the square footage of what is what is allow yeah in terms of signage allowance. So yeah you are here for both not just for the the sign itself but for the size as well. So the flying fee is gone. Yes. Size of the letters have been reduced. Correct. We also um had a meeting with the uh New York State Historic Review and we have their blessing on the location of the sign and the sign itself. Do they know that it's a lighted sign? They do.

Did they have any comments that you want to share? I was not present at the meeting. I'm just aware of it.

We actually did our By the way, I'm Nate Betty. the um a member of the building owner entity. We had a um approval from Shipo when we did our initial part two documents for the building. We always had envisioned doing signage there for one of the tenants. So, we had that reserved with them as a potential assigned location in the project. Not really. No. Should they know that we have a board of four and not five? The four is fine.

It's when we're when we're down to when we're down to a quorum. I give it just a quum. I give you the option to resubmit. Okay.

So, I'm just going to express my opinion here. Um I don't like a lighted sign. Um, there's some other ones that have been popping up in Troy that I find offensive. And, um, I don't have a problem with a sign. I have a problem with a a lit sign. I think it ruins the vibe, the historical old building vibe of our city. Um, and you know, Steve, you and I look at a sign every time we come down the hill in Detroit that they've messed up our cityscape already. So, I personally don't want to see any more lit signs. I don't mind signs, just don't want lit signs. That's just my opinion. What about lighting the letters from an external instead of having the letters lit internally?

Yeah, there the the amount of light that they're going to exude is just a very small trim around the outside of the letters. You can still see it at one o'clock in the morning though when you're going to come down. It's on the night view. See, like if it was just that lit like Go back up. Go up for a minute. Right there. Like I have no problem with that gray sign. That's Yeah, it's not back lit anymore with the text

kind of glowing. It's just around the text. It's much more subtle than it was. So that's our point is we're not trying to make garish signs that I know you don't like. We took your feedback from the last meeting and we're trying to adapt it to what the wishes of the board are. And we agree with you. We want to have nice context to our signage in the city of Troy. We think this is a better way to deliver that. It's a better location on the building, too. I I feel like that that location in the building if you scroll down a little bit. Go down one. Angelina, can you go down one? Go down one. Go down one. To me, it feels like that part of the stairwell. Go down one. Go down. Like it makes sense to have a sign. To me, just that's my opinion, M.

Right. And again, I I don't have a problem with the sign. Here's the thing. It's a it's a bank. They're open 9 to5, right? I don't need to see it at one o'clock in the morning. It's it's an advertise. It becomes an advertisement after banker's hours. So that's why I don't have a problem with the sign. I have a problem with lighting. Respectfully, part of their brand presence is showing people that that's where they are. I I understand. And sometimes of the year it's going to be dark out when they have open hours and they want to show people this is their site and it's part of their marketing. But that goes against what he's saying. So, there's no compromise on cutting the hours of when the line uh light is on. I mean, I see I'm

I don't want to speak for my tenant, but I'll let him speak from Pioneer Bank.

Um Pioneer Bank, as you may know, we're founded in Troy. We've been here for 137 years. Um we consider ourselves a Troy success. Uh the signage is definitely an important aspect of this project to us. Um we we do want it lit and uh you know we want to make a compromise and we feel that halo effect which which is a a much more expensive option for the signage um is a good compromise. Uh again it is and we want to be part of this revitalization project. It's a big move for us a large investment. um you know a big change for our customers but we feel it's important based on our commitment to Troy. We've been committed to Troy for over a hundred years. We're sponsor of the turkey trot. We sponsor bid events. Um we feel like we're an important piece of Troy and we hope that the board will see that. Uh we feel the signage again is is a good compromise um to you know can we turn it on, can we turn it off? you know, we we want to be present when when people are driving through Troy, when they they we want to be known uh and we want to be their bank and and we feel our history with Troy, 137 years. I'm not sure any bank in the area could uh could say that. Um, you know, we feel this is a powerful statement that that we're still committed to Troy.

Sure. Of course. Um, is the image that we're looking at right now what it will look like during daylight hours? Correct. I have no problem with what it looks like in the daylight hours as I see it on that screen. My concern is the neon lighting effect at night. Is the image on the next slide? Is that is that perspective?

Yeah, that's probably not a perfect perspective because it is because of the halo. That's why we provided the image to show exactly what that halo effect will look like. Okay. I'm just I'm confused between what I'm looking at now and what I was looking at a minute ago. That is a lot more subtle. That's what it will look like. That's Is that what you're proposing? That's what we're proposing. Correct. You're not proposing the first one. It's not a a like lit plastic sign. It has the halo effect. So, you're not the the letters will be solid and then you'll just see the halo lighting around it. It's it's it's a soft lighting. It's a soft lighting. It's subtle.

Um you can still read it at night though, right? But it's not going to be like a bright Las Vegas neon sign. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is an expensive uh sign. It's not, you know, it's not inexpensive. Is it more expensive to do this? Oh, yes. Or to what you were proposing last time? That's much more expensive. Yeah, they were doing channels. And is it more expensive because it's more lights or just because it's more subtle? Okay. I don't know. So, because see what what I see is it sets a president. I don't think I don't think it does. I mean, lightly.

So, we we could you could put it in there that this is a unique case. We could put that it's I think it is. Let's talk about precedent. We're concerned about this corridor along Route 7. Is that is that an accurate assessment of your opinion on the signage? Yes. So, how many more buildings are along this corridor that would ask for signage like this? Not many. This is really the last one that has been gotten fixed up and renovated. That's true. It is the last Bright Lights big city to be to be.

But would you agree compared to some of the other ones that have been done across the overpass and on the other side along Huzzek, this is much more subtle than some of the brighter, more optically visible signage. I can agree. Yes. And actually was thinking about this coming down to this meeting uh this evening. I'm sure many of you are familiar with the LED billboard that is just up Route 7 from the spot find appalling.

I kind of do as well, although that's already grandfathered in and it's there and it does its thing. But thinking about the context of the environment, I notice that much more than I would notice something like this going by. I think just from the natural brightness of the two signs compared. So, is this request really that bad? I don't think so. I think this is a very subtly lit and tastefully designed display for their branding and it doesn't detract from the neighborhood's aesthetic like something that you would see further up street does. Well, I again we agree on that.

I also think this is a good thing for that area. I think there's no banks like I mean there's a bank up on street but that's not their clientele they're going. I'm not saying don't come. I'm just I I just think I think this is good for Troy personally saying like, "Hey, this bank is investing in is that considered North Central?" Yes. I'm asking. Yeah. They're coming to North Central, which is where we want. They're putting in that like It makes a lot of sense to me personally, Tamara. Just between you and I. That's that's that's fine. I I you know how I'm going to vote. I'm I'm not changing my mind, but that's okay. Yeah. And just to reiterate, you know, we're not a business who's going to be out of business in two years. We'll we'll be there for 15 years.

That's a problem. Like there's too many lights, but we've been in Troy for 137 years. So, I I mean, we have a huge we have two branches in the Troy area. I mean, we have a huge commitment to Troy. Um, and this is a big step for us to make this move and contribute to this area, but but we're committed to it and we think it's important. So, you know, while I understand you feel this is a concession, we're making a commitment and and a big investment and but we feel it's worth it and we feel this will uh help us in being successful in the area. You want me to do secret or I mean unless anybody else has any comments say

is there anybody in the public that would else would like to comment or online or in person? Angie online anybody? Nobody's uh anybody's gone home. All right. I'll to listen to lather on I I'll I'll you do seeker first. Right. Mr. Chairman, in regards to PLZBA 2026 00018, as supported by the staff report, I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. Second.

All those in favor? I I

I'm not making a motion. I I will if anybody if nobody else will I'll make the motion.

Hold on. 18. I guess the question the chair raised is uh as you can see we're after we're missing one member tonight. Uh a two two vote the motion fails. It's up to you if you want us go if you want the board to go ahead with a vote. I think the board would entertain a request to table if you wanted to do that and wait for the fifth number to be present.

Honestly, we're under certain time constraints for this project um due to existing leases that we have to give notification on. So th this is this kind of the end of the road on this project for us this meeting. Okay. Just Yeah. No, we appreciate that. Do you feel that lighting is absolutely essential? We do. We do. It's important to us. As I said, we're we're making a big investment in this project. Um, and this this really is an important aspect of it. I I can't say if if the lighting's not approved that we're going to be making a move to that location. I understand. Yeah. Thank you.

So, we have three variances, right? The number of signs, the maximum per what? Okay. Okay. And so it's the three first bullet points. All right. I guess I'm up. Yep.

Uh I move that the board approve the variance. The first variance for PL ZBA 20260018. Um for the zoning code permits a maximum of two signs per lot. The ZBA previously approved two additional signs. The applicant is now requesting the approval of one additional sign. So this is the first variance. Um, so the request variance is granted. It will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood because there are signs there and I think that kind of fits to where you're trying to get business in.

Is there a second? Can I second? I'll second. So you want to call roll? Yep. I have more questions. Oh, I'm sorry, Steve. I'm sorry. Another boardman have has more questions. I know I asked this before, but I'm going to ask it again. What I'm looking at is what it's going to look like in terms of lighting.

That is so you're conf This is an actual photograph of exactly what the lighting will look like. The rendering that you were looking at that's causing confusion was a daytime picture put into a computer program called Photoshop. darkened to make believe it was dark and she used white outline on the outside to just give a That was the other photograph. Exactly. So that is just a visual rendering to give a basic idea of what that sign and that's more for a client's view than it is for board thing. The picture in that thumbnail is what the sign is and that is an actual photograph of a real sign.

Do you do you know of um this question is for I forget your name. I think it's Paul this. You work for Saxon signs, right? Or Oh, do you know of a sign in the capital area that is halo lit like this that we would know maybe that you could reference for Steve? There's ton of Is that is common roots? What was common roots? Is that Halo 11? Okay. They already said they won't do that. Where is that? You don't you don't know of one or you off the top of my head. Okay. I just figured I'd ask. It might might have been helpful. Or it doesn't any sign that we might know. Just

Philip Walsh on the vice president of facilities for the bank. We have a similar sign in the town of Clifton Park on Route 146 and we we got approved for that sign basically for the same reason. They had the same concerns that they didn't want 146 to look like Las Vegas. Yes. And we went through the similar process and Saxton signed before his time that Saxton sign I believe. Um, we got that sign approved and it is up and it is still lit now and it's actually probably of similar size. How long ago was that sign? Um, that would be 2014.

Was that Route 146? Yep. Route 14. 843. Route 146. I I kind of know them all because I built them all. The other thing I'd like to add on the rendering, um, I maybe I couldn't hear it in the back, but the light of the city cannot really be shown and, you know, in a PDF like that. So, obviously, the city has a lot of light when you come down the hill from everything that is lit in the city. So that would also create more light on on and around the building which would make that halo effect dimmer.

Not to mention that electronic message up the hill.

Any other questions? Did you want to see a picture of that, Tamir? Yeah. You can't get there. There's no nighttime picture. No, there probably not a I don't know if there'd be a nighttime picture. Well, that's all I care about. See night time. I got a lot of daytime pictures. You mind if I real quick? Yeah, sure. Please. Hey, how's it going?

Good. We're good. So this will give you

no one ever shakes my hand. You're the only one. What am I looking at? You're just looking at that that style of signage. That style of signs are all pretty much going to give you that view.

That's what it would look like. Probably expand off of the actual lettering maybe two to three inches and onto the actual wall not casting outwards. Mhm. So, with the casting into the wall, how big are these letters? 45 in. So, like they're like this. Yeah. 4 foot, but they're way up there. They're way up in It's kind of like the side the lines in this road. They look really small when you're driving 70. Like I said, I don't sign. I just don't

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. Just an aspect of this project. We are looking at putting like a ITM which is like an interactive teller machine across the street on a vacant site that's part of the project. So it is important that we have good signage so people know that we're there at night too um because people may be looking for an ITM or you know it can be used as an ATM but an ITM also and it's it's open till 7 o'clock at night. So during the winter when when it's dark out at 4:00 um it will be important for people to know that we're in that location. What's an what's an ITM?

An I it's called an interactive teller machine. So what that does, it's kind of like a ATM, but it actually has also a screen where you can speak to an actual person at our headquarters and you can conduct more transactions. And we see that as a a big benefit because it extends banking hours in that area. So residents in that area now have access to banking up till 7 o'clock at night. They can talk to a real person. They and they can talk to a real person. It's not just getting cash. They can make deposits. They can ask questions. Stay in their car. They can Yep. They can cash a check. So Oh, it's I'm sorry. It's a drive-thru. It's a drive up. Yes. I did not know that. Yes.

We have one in our friends. any way those letters can be scaled down a little bit in size? I I honestly believe that the more we scale them down, it's almost going to look awkward on that space because it's such a big space. What do you think? The distance of the road that they're really trying to get make any smaller, it's going to be harder to reach. And then to be honest with you, if we go smaller, we're probably generally use a higher lumin light because it's so small on such a high surface. So it would be a little bit brighter of a sign if we had to go smaller or it would just be washed out.

Do you feel the light 24/7 is important? We do. I mean, we would like it lit. We want people to know we're there. This is an important aspect of the project. As I said, we're we're making a big investment, a big move for our customers. We want them to know we're there. What do you do with Second Street, if I can ask? Um, we would we would vacate that location, which brings another point. We we've been at that location for decades. So, this would this would help people realize that we are no longer on Second Street and that we have moved to North Central. Yeah, it's a it's a big move for us. No question. You won't or at least say uh we lease release.

But but we believe No, no, not this different different twitching over there. Rick, but that is is part of the importance to us. I have a question. Sure. Um the location of the sign and the the view that you're showing here is that from the bridge or from uh alternate from let me finish from alternate seven or from the bridge.

Okay. So that's all I really want. Just make sure that okay it's got to be up. Scroll down. It's actually down or Okay, that's from alternate route 7. So, it's not really quite the same visibility inside the city.

Well, we had a first and second, right? Yeah. So, well, do you want me to restate it because I know you were I Yeah, I was asking, but I knew the answer. Secret. The secret.

Yeah. Okay. No thanks. Um, I move that the board approve the variance uh for the first variance for PL ZBA 20260018 547 RI River Street uh where they previously approved the uh two additional signs and now they are asking to just approve one additional sign. Uh the variance, if granted, will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood because there are multiple businesses there with signs already. And this is a second sign. One for them to show people where to get in the door and the second showing that they are in this building in existence.

You seconded already. Yes, I did. Okay, I second. Okay. All in favor? Well, do you want to call any other questions? Any any other for the first part? Yeah, happy to answer any other questions. I have no other questions. Stephen, flying P is gone. The flying P is gone. Size of the letters are reduced. It is change in lighting to a more subtle lighting and and we relocated it. So, I do have a question. So, this variance is approving signage, but not necessarily a lit sign. Well, we're we're doing it. Well, it's it's Yeah,

we're doing it three parts. It's It's not really spelled out. So, I want to know what I'm approving or disapproving. Well, right now, we're just put doing this the second form that we're going to let them have an additional sign that we're gonna That's what this one is. That's that's all that it is. When I say when when I get to one of the other ones, I if you want me to clarify, if I'm the one to make the motion, I will clarify. There will be a lid sign. So, signify. So, so I only have two variances. You have three. I must I must I didn't print the last. Yeah. Okay. Well, you did. I printed I printed the last.

So, the first one is sign. Yep. And the second one and the second one is the maximum sign 48. This is more than 48. It's 65, right? That's the relief of 60 of 17. So that's that. Yeah. And then the last one is that the height exceeds what is permitted. The height is 46. Okay. You want me to do it again? I know which one I was. What's What is Okay, you can do roll call. I don't know if there's any more questions. No, I don't have any more.

Do you want me to say it again or No, no. I'm good with it two times. All right. Third time's a charm. All right. So, you want to call? Yep. Roll call. My vote is yes.

Yes. Yes. A vote yes for an additional sign. Okay. To clarify to clarify what I'm voting on.

For the next one, I move that the board approve the second part of the variance for PL ZBA 20260018 for the property act 547 River Street. um that the maximum prevented individual wall sign is allowed is 48 and you are asking for a relief of 17 ft for a total of 65 square ft. I request this variance to be granted because it does not alter the essential character of the neighborhood as there are other signs as you guys have already stated before. Do I have a second? Second. You're going to call roll.

Call yes. I vote yes. Yes. Yes. Well, it doesn't really matter what I vote. So So just abstain. No, I'm gonna vote no. Did you vote three to one? I voted no. Oh, three to one. One no. Three three one no. Okay. Now

I move that the board uh approve the var the last variance for PLZBA 20260018 at 5 47 River Street that the right now the wall signs are limited to a maximum height of 24 in. You're proposing a sign that is 46 in high which is a relief of 22 in. Second. I vote yes. Yes. Yes. No. Congratulations. Congratulations. You have your sign. Thank you guys. Have a good day. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'd love to come. Except me.

I should have put that I should have put that in the variance. We have to get invited to the ribbon cutting. So during our staff meeting, we had a we something came up on the temper sign that you guys have on the building. We done the banner. Yeah. Do you have plans to make it permanent or take because because a tempor is allowed I think for 30 days. So there were complaints that it's been more than Okay. Okay.

Yes. Okay. It wasn't so Okay. So, but it's horrible. Did I make that clear? Can I make a motion to adjourn this meeting? Oh, they're they're having a discussion. So, I was a deal break. They're just they're just chatting. I I second the motion to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor? Hi May.