Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Make sure Mr. Congratulations. continue to I don't

want Exactly. So maybe they just I'm talking

English. Christmas. Sorry. It's 7 o'clock. I'd like to call the planning commission for the city of Martinsville, Tuesday, October the 28th, 2025 to order.

First up on the agenda is roll call. Richard Baston here. Steve Bod here. Jim Burkhart here. Joe Disney present. Richard D present. For Rick Peacock here. Ann Miller. Jason Scott here. Troy Swan and myself, Marilyn Cider.

Okay, we have a quorum. Presentation of minutes. Does everybody have an opportunity to look at the minutes over? Yes.

Mr. Chairman, on page two under old business, um number two, docket number 255024, the motion says that Steve Bodie made a motion to table the request um of PC25024 until further information is obtained. The motion was seconded by Ann Miller and passed with nine votes in favor, one opposed. Um I believe that motion was actually to approve as submitted. Um, I made the second and it did pass 9 to1. Yes. And if I remember right, Steve, you made some verbiage in there on that. Do you remember what it was?

I do not. So, did you get that, Marilyn? Well, I don't know what what's missing. What was missing? So, on number two, Yeah. docket 2524. Yeah, the motion Steve Bod made a motion to accept Oh, and he put some language in that as to the specifics of what they could and could not do. And then it was for the payment. Yes, it was for the front facade of the building.

And uh and Steve, you make the motion on that. and Rick seconded the motion. [snorts] I got that right. Miller, it's Rick Dol. Oh, second. Thank you, Rick. Sorry. You got that?

Yep. Okay. Is there anything else in the minutes? If not, I'd like to entertain a motion to accept the minutes. I'll make a motion that we accept the minutes dated September 23rd, 2025, uh, with the noted change. Miller is here. Okay.

I'll second. Who is that? All right. Thank you.

Okay. Up under old business, docket number PC25017. Final PUD final detail plans address artisian Avenue 10.512 acres. Owner is Habitat for Humanity of Morgan County. I see we got Brian back here. Mr. Chairman, um I'd like to recuse myself from any discussion of voting on this petition because I was active working with Habitat at the beginning of this. Okay. Did you get that? Yes, I did.

Thank you, Steve. [clears throat]

Just thank you. Uh, for the record, my name is Brian D with TNH Investments. Um, what I passed out was really just a a copy of what was submitted just so everybody could have it. Um, so when I was here last in September, we had, you know, gone into a more detailed review of the project. Um, and it was it was tabled for pending, you know, a more extensive review by the commission. Um and then there were also a few items that uh have been brought to brought up at that meeting um that we have I think since addressed in the plans that were submitted earlier this month. Um so I'll go through those now. Um the first item that had been discussed um was fencing on the site. Um really pertaining to three separate areas. Um the first was uh fencing around um the playground. So we did add that in. Um

what we had proposed and the the sort of standard detail for it is is included in the packet was um doing a a 4 foot um aluminum picket style fence uh around the playground. Um, and that would be a we we probably do a black fence. That would be the the preferred choice there. Um, the second area that we had discussed uh well, we discussed it for a number of reasons, but was the drainage pond and as was pointed out and and I confirmed afterwards is that these are wet ponds. Um, and as such, you know, I think there's a desire by everybody to have them fenced. So, we we added fencing around both the drainage ponds. Um, that would be a 4 foot uh tall um chain link fence. Again, it would be a a powder coated black color. Um, and that details attached as well. Um, and then the last area that had been discussed a little bit and and really was just I think a point of clarification is that there is intended to be a fenced in area. um just outside of the daycare. Uh but it had not been called out on the plans. So we did call that out on on the plans. Um that was the fencing. The second the second item that was discussed was snow plowing of the uh the the public drive. Um which is the section of the road running from Artisian A to the to the really to the property line for for what will be the 34 town homes. Um we had discussed at the last meeting the idea of of uh the property owner taking taking responsibility for the plowing. Um that's something I discussed internally

with with people in my office and we feel comfortable doing that. Um in terms of um what I included in the packet, the last item in the packet is uh I'll say a draft commitment letter, but a commitment letter from us um saying that we we would take care of of the snow plowing for that stretch of road. um you know and I propose to what I believe are the the city standards of of you know any snowfall greater than 2 in. The reality of of it is that we will likely do it pretty much to an ending snowfalls at least uh at least you know salting that kind of thing just just because the the reality of running you know being a manager of of an apartment community requires a a higher level of due diligence um just from a liability perspective. Um so that that is included in the packet. Uh and then the last item um there had been a lot of discussion about the staging for the property. Um and one thing you know I don't think there was any conclusions at the last meeting but I did propose in my in my submission the idea of of um setting the staging up. So after we were done our major site work which is things like you know all utilities are in the roadways are in to at least a finer of course that kind um you know things are stabilized um curbs and curbs and things things like that are in the idea that at that point the site would be ready for Habitat to to come and start construction on on their houses. Um, and that would be, I guess, my request if if there is any any um any any language in in the approval

about staging is that we would we would have the ability for habitat to start after the after the site work is complete. Um, so those were those were the things that I I believe I addressed in in the submission and obviously I think questions or comments that the commission may have. How many total acres is this again that this is going to be on? It's approximately 10 acres. 10 acres.

It's actually I'm sorry. I believe it is it's the the whole property including the un the um undeveloped uh site is 10 acres. So the undeveloped site is about two acres. That description here, Brian, says 10.512 acres. Correct. And that's the whole parcel including the the undeveloped piece.

And in conjunction to Hannah Farms, this will be to what? The north north of it. No. Uh, it is I believe it is to the west. To the west. Okay. Okay.

So, Brian, I have a question for you. Um, on the I think that Mr. Burkart was alluding to this last month. um who would be owning the town homes and you were replied was T&H Investments. Correct. So a a single purpose entity controlled by TH Investments. Okay. Okay. In the original, this is going back to February. In the original proposal that we was handed, it stated in here at least a purchase program. And I never heard that brought up again. Yes. So um so is this a a workforce development?

It is it is is this section 8?

No, it is purely rental housing. Um, however, there is the ability for, and it's it doesn't happen much, but there would be the ability for potentially after 15 years for a tenant that was that was um had resided in there the whole time to to purchase their their particular apartment. It it has been a very strict set of requirements for that to happen. What we also got in February talked um and there was some figures in here uh income restriction income limits 30 to 80% of AMI 80% AMI for a family of four. So is these market rate or is these rates that we was given in February still good? No, it this is all will all still be income restricted to the a maximum of 80% of AMI.

So that moves along with the workforce development. Correct. Okay. So, have you ever had anybody purchase from any of your other properties?

No. I mean, I'll be honest with you. The the I think [clears throat] the unfortunate reality of it is that the success rate of this is this is one of the options that numerous states put out there. The success rate of that of that is pretty low because of the fact that you have to have has to be somebody who originally occupied the unit and it lived there for for [clears throat] at least 15 years and then they have to obviously um have the, you know, the means and the ability to to purchase it.

Who did Habitat for Humanity buy this um property from? I do not know the answer to that. Yes, we bought it from Hannah Farms. Uh Jud said they bought it from Hannah Farms. So also another question I have in our February packet it shows sources and uses. Yep.

Sources permanent loan development loan ready habitat seller note syndication pro proceeds owner contribution total sources. Now my question is this ready grant that is a city provided the city applied for the ready grant. That's correct. Okay. [clears throat] Have you checked with the city to see that with what you pulled back on this that the ready grant is still available?

The last I checked, yes, it was still available. Okay. And that was 850,000. Correct. That's why I'm showing here. 850,000.

What kind of timeline is there for that grant to be put in place and and by the time that you you know if you started building that you receive the monies to continue to get everything built? Do you know what the timeline is on that grant.

Uh I don't specifically know. We would expect to so we we close all our financing together. So we would expect to you know close the loan documents and stuff for the grant. Um, at that point when we actually draw down the funds would be a discussion with uh, you know, the the the city and and and making sure it aligns with with with whatever their expectations are from when they would get it from the state. Does anybody from the city know by chance? I have a Gary. Gary can't talk. You can't talk.

You have a conflict here. You can sit and listen. Thank you. Mayor, Mr. Mayor,

chairman, I've been in conversation with the uh ready participants. There's some concern of way things have been changed from their February and the application we made to the grant on this project and their fun if if they agree to go ahead and do this with the changes that have been made their funding will not be available till maybe sometime next year at this time next year. So $850,000 isn't something that we have control over. It's it's federal money going to the ready program. So therefore, uh we were told at the last SR meeting would not be available till fall of next year.

But that that seems pretty typical from what I've seen with other projects.

And so that won't have any effect on your project? No. So we we ultimately we get there's two primary sources of funding during construction. So some of it is the tax credit equity we get that comes in in chunks. Um and the main the main source of it is a construction loan that we have a commitment for and we take into account that that type of information into the size of the construction loan to make sure that there's sufficient funding. Okay. on your website um there's a section about TIFF bonding. Is that anything that's happening with this project?

No. Okay. Do we have any more questions for B? I just have one for Mr. Mills if he's available to talk.

Yes. Hi, Mr. Happy birthday, by the way. Well, thank you. Yeah. Um, how did you come to to find out about this acreage, this this Hannah Farm? Did they approach you or what? How did you

Uh, we had someone that uh went to church with uh the uh owner and u connected us. And do you see this um how do you see this benefiting our community? Well, u as we've talked many times, um for all of the housing needs that there are in this county and specifically Martinsville, the greatest deficit that we have is uh housing that's affordable to a workforce that um quite frankly don't make uh livable wages in many of the jobs. Uh they are residents of our community. They are vital to our community and at this point in time they're being crushed by market rate housing uh as uh because they just can't afford it and uh I could go into story after story after story of what happens in that situation. But uh uh it's a deficit and right now this is a project that addresses that deficit. And you say addresses it because it's going to be the the rental rate will be lower than the normal rental rate in town. Correct.

That's correct. That's correct. And it's scaled according to if you'll notice that there are uh three tiers in that uh in that set of of apartment units at 30, 50, and 80% of the area median income. that lets us address a broad population uh that's uh that's in need of affordable housing. And I know we've talked about this before, but um how many habitat houses do we have in this city right now? I think 30. We're building the 39th. I believe we have 39.

We 38 now. We're building the 39th. Okay. Okay. The other municipalities in the county have how many? They have the rest. We we've built 59. We're building our 60th habitat home. Now, you built 59. So, that means 20 is elsewhere. Elsewhere. I might add that at this point in time, we hold just 19 mortgages. The rest of those homes have been paid off of the 39. Of the 60.

Yeah. Oh, the 59. Okay.

Any other questions? No. Thank you, Mr. Mills. So, we'd like to have a conversation here before I call for a mo motion, feelings. Is there anybody here in the audience that would like to speak for or against this project?

Okay, [clears throat] Joel, the only thing I'm I'm going to go back and and I mean you I'll give you you've jumped through every hoop we've asked you jump through and I appreciate that's what we do and I appreciate that. Um, you know, back when this was was we were approached and and and I go back I had the same thing you did. Yes, sir.

And and that, you know, we we in this city, we need affordable housing. I'll go along with that. And but we need people to own the homes. And and so that was one of the good things I saw that you you brought to the table was that this was going to be, you know, there was a lease to purchase plan. And I I think that was kind of we didn't really get the full scope of what that entailed. And and so I I'm kind of disappointed in that.

Yeah, I I mean I agree. I think I think as a just as an industry as a whole it's a it's a difficult thing to do and yeah it was structure structure creating a better structure around it would be something that you know I think there would be a lot of support for because it's I go a lot of places and I understand the importance of home ownership so that was that's my

and going along with that when Miss Andrew presented this to us in February. You know, we had all partials being used. Now we're losing one partial. Daycare housing 50 kids. Now we're down to 24 to 28. That's been taken off. Just things to consider. I I'd like to first of all I want to say that the concept of this whole program is absolutely great. I I really do believe that that is what we do need is affordable housing within within our within our town. But along with Jim is that I think you need to have people with ownership of it to take pride in what they have because not all the time renters do and that's just an unfortunate sad fact. So, when this first came to us, this was probably one of the best presentations I've seen come in front of us in order to help people have affordable housing, get them into ownership. you know, we have those there was a lot of great things as far as a daycare

available that would house probably enough for what was going to move in. Um, but unfortunately, like I said, I I think it's a great concept. I don't like this concept of what and I appreciate everything that you brought to the table. I don't like this concept of us just taking a project and just let's see how little we can make it and shove it in and make it work. So, um I make a motion that we deny the plan um for sorry docket um PC2507 um as it as it um to uh I make a motion that we deny based on it's just too condensed and too much change of what the great blame was

and I will second that um just because I I just feel that this is not what the city needs in this particular area at this time. So, we have a motion from Rich Baston to deny and Miller has seconded. What was your reasoning again? Ann, I didn't get it. It's not what's needed in this area. Okay. Um, with that, Marilyn, I would like to call for a roll call vote on this.

Sure. So, as she calls, a yes is that you're wanting to deny and a no is that you don't agree with the denial. Ready? Ready. Okay. Richard Baston. Yes. Steve Brock. Oh, wait. You were accused, right? Uh Jim Burkhard, no. Joe Disney, yes.

Rick Dal, no.

Rick Peacock, no. Ann Miller, yes. Jason Scott. No. [clears throat] Steve Bod abstain. Yeah, I got that. Wait. Yeah. Myself is um Yes.

Okay. So, what we have is a four to four tie. Uh normally this would go back on the agenda for the next month's meeting. However, we have local rules that state that action has to be taken on an item by the plan commission within 90 days of the date that it first came before the commission. This first came before the commission for this particular request in June. It got tabled a couple of times. So, we're out of our 90-day time frame. So, at this point, it will not be put back on the agenda. It will die for lack of a affirmative vote.

Okay. Can they bring it back another time? No. No. So, docket number PC25017 has died and timed out. So, it cannot be brought back before the planning commission. Can it be brought back if it's modified?

You can bring it back if it's modified. You'll have to do a new application. You have to wait 30 days, but you could bring back a modification of it. Yes. [snorts] Is there Can I ask the question? Is there specific modifications that some of the You're not going to be able to ask a question of the commission tonight. Now that

you're not going to be able to ask ask the commission for any opinions tonight now. Okay. All right. I'm sorry. Next up on old under business, docket number PC 255026, an amended application to reszone from B2 to R2 to R3. address 1209 South Main Street, 1269 South Main Street, 1190 South Maryland Street. Owner is Swab Family Associates, Swab Food Liner Incorporate, and William and Helen Swab Foundation.

Mr. Chairman, yes, I want to recuse myself. this island.

Mr. Chairman, may I have a moment just to to um say what I think our job is and I the reason I'd like to say that is because I believe there are people in the audience who are here who are interested in in this um docket number in this petition. Um, I just wanted to emphasize that our job as a planning commission is um, land use. That's what our role [clears throat] is. We're to recommend to the city council whether they should reszone this lot or not. We recommend to the city council. The city council ultimately then decides um, we do land use decisions. Um, we're supposed to do that in a consistent manner. and not randomly, [clears throat] not based on who we know or our friends, but consistent, not random, and in compliance with our comprehensive plan. That's a big statement. It's a a guiding principle that we as a plan commission are supposed to be aware of and apply to requests like the one that's in front of us today. Um, how do we decide? Um, we're supposed to look at adjacent properties to determine if [clears throat] it's compatible. Does it fit in? How would it impact the neighborhood? Um, would it affect the value of neighbors land? Would it hinder the ability to use the existing properties near it in the way that they are right now? Um, additionally, we're supposed to pick the highest and best use for this property, the property in question. Um, we're supposed to review what the comprehensive plan says about that area, um, and the desire for how we grow as a community.

We're supposed to look at the current conditions, what's now happening, what is there now, including the neighborhood and and the properties near it. Um, we're supposed to conserve property values and we're responsible for the development and growth um as long as the the U plan commission allows for the change of of views. So, I just wanted to share that that is what we are supposed to be doing up here. So, I'll give it back to the chairman. Thank you, Mr. Bodie. Would you please uh state your name? Yes, sir. Mike Gossip with Rooted Oaks Construction. I'm sorry I didn't get it. Mike Mike Gossip.

Did you spell that last name? Goss T.

Okay. Thank you. So last month um when I was here and we had to put it off to this month um there were some uh the zoning codes that we used in the public notice was incorrect. We corre made the corrections the week following last month's meeting. Um sent the notice back out with the correct um zoning codes in there. So everyone is currently um was provided the information with the correct zoning that we made the mistake on initially. So

do we need to confirm that Mr. Chairman Mr. Attorney got everything. So, what you're looking at is one, two, three, four, five, six lots that you're wanting to reszone. It's actually five lot, sir.

Oh, I stand correct. Yes. Five lots that you're wanting to change from B2 retail to R3 high density residential. Three of them are from B2 to R3 and two of them are from R2 to R3. Okay. Do we have any questions for this gentleman?

Mr. Chairman, if I might, uh, just for the board's information, I met with Mr. Gasser along with Mr. Strader. I wanted to uh make sure in my mind I understood the overall concept of what the request was going to be. So um tonight he's asking for a recommendation to the city council to reszone these five parcels to R3. Um and then once that is acted upon assuming that the council does agree to reszone, he will have to come back before this board because he's going to ask to vacate and replplat these lots. Okay. So, some of the um documentation that you received both last meeting and also in your packet this evening kind of shows some rendering of some of these finished apartments. That's only after that vacate and replplat would happen. Okay? Because he's going to be having to build over property lines that he can't do right now the way it's configured without a replant. All right? So, this is a process that he is going through. Uh but the first step is to seek the resoning. So, just a little bit of edification for you folks as to where they're at with their project. So on clarification, Dave, you're saying that there's like three lots here and you're making up one lot. So that that'll be the o overall when they're finished. Yes.

Exactly. Okay.

Yes.

And again, that's on down the road. Tonight is just the request for consideration on whether to recommend reszoning to the city council. And this isn't nothing new. We've done this before. We did it with Culver. Yeah. And it makes it makes difference what they're planning on doing at this point.

Right. Right. All we're doing, like Dale said, is we're just looking at sending a favorable or nonfavorable recommendation to city council. And even if we do an unfavorable, they can still take it to city council. So, all we're doing tonight is just favorable or unfavorable recommendation for city council to change the zoning to our property.

And he's got he's got a lot of steps to go through. I've got a question that might be a little more procedural, but say we make a recommendation, this goes to council, and they approve the reszone. Um, right now there's obviously a commercial structure on the property. I I don't think it's desirable to end up with a vacant commercial structure, but it be zoned R3.

Do we have any No, you don't because you're just making a recommendation on the real estate itself, the land itself. Now, obviously, if it gets reszoned, that commercial structure would only be able to be used as R3. So, I mean, I understand the the concern, but there's really nothing that you can do about that. So, if somebody come in, if this deal fell through and somebody come in to buy that building as a commercial building, they would they could not they would they couldn't come back. They would have to get it reszoned again or they'd have to go to the BCA for variance. Okay. They could only use it for our three purposes.

So, as Rick said, this is just a procedural comment, but it's nice to clarify that when we have you don't see this every day. Thank you, Rick. Mr. Chairman, are we at the point we could ask for um the people the remmonstrators didn't get to speak last meeting? Is it I I I think if we didn't have That's where I was going. If we didn't have any more questions for this gentleman, then uh

Well, I do have one question. Mr. asked and lasted the last time you were here that have you ever done a project like this before? And what you answered was you've been in business 38 years, but you never did answer if you had done a project exactly like this. I've never built a town home community like this with 23 units by demoing out an infill section inside of a existing city. No sir. Okay. But I've been in construction for 38 years and done a lot of projects. [snorts]

Any other questions? Now, when we just make sure I'm clear, when if we change the business zone, which would be the existing old and the parking lot back to it. We're only changing those two lots. We're not We're not changing any effect on two rentals, are we? Yes. Yeah, you would be. Would be. Yeah. So, it all be one one day. Okay.

Yeah. So, there's five lots uh each of those lots. So, under your ordinance, in order to receive B, I'm sorry, R3 zoning, each parcel has to be at least 10,000 square feet as far as size goes. Each of these five parcels are at least 10,000 square feet. All right? So, you have the he has the ability to come before you asking to each individual parcel be reszoned to R3. And that's what he's asking. [snorts] And that's some of the stuff that you and Mr. Strader had a meeting with him to make sure that that's correct. All the boxes was checked. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. I think that's all the questions we have for you.

One more question. I'm sorry. And I'm sorry, I just dot my eyes and cross my tees, but your address is listed as 69 South Kfax. Is that correct? That's correct. Actually, it's north. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And for clarification for everybody, make sure I'm I understand the the two single family homes that are in question. They are currently zoned R2, which is um medium density residential. That's not single family home, is it?

No, it's medium density. Yes. It's duplexes basically. So those two parcels in question, excuse me, please, those two parcels are currently zoned R2 medium density residential. Correct. Okay. And that's something that the swaps family has probably done somewhere along the line. And and traditionally here that would mean that those could be duplexes. Correct. Okay. In other words, there could be two families living. Yeah. Not saying that they are, but they could be. Thank you.

And I'm sure that that's something that Mr. Schwab vision down the road whenever he acquired the properties because I believe he has several properties in that neighborhood. Okay. Thank you. So now I'm going to ask anybody would like to speak for or against this project. And remember, as we've handled all of our conversation, it's all about zoning. That's all we're concerned about tonight. Understand? And your name is Stacy Allen. And I have signed in. Stacy Allen. Yes. Casey. Stacy. Stacy.

S Y. Uh, I want to first get over Mr.

And you do have two minutes. Okay. Then I have two other people who have seated their time to me. Um seeing as we have an arbitrary determination of two minutes without discussion or motions. Um so I have six minutes. Thank you. Um so the idea Mr. Bod said best and highest for this. We all understand that eventually this property is going to have to change. Our neighborhood understands that this is not the right project to get this property changed for. And here's a few things why. First of all, the idea that this is a dilapidated property. He love Mr. Gossi used that six different times last month. Dilapidated, dilapidated. It's not. It's empty. Uh a seasonal business was in there this past summer. Last weekend, there was a indoor community yard sale in that building. There's no meth addicts crashing in there. This isn't a drug den. It's not falling down. It's empty. We wish it weren't. We wish there was a grocery store there, but there's not. And we know it's going to have to change. Um something else. And and the gentleman here started in on about their their experience. They have three decades of building experience, but this is the first time they've built something for themselves. So they have no experience as property managers. This will be the first time they'll be managing property and they're doing a big property for that. Three stories town houses 23 of originally it was 30. Now it's 23. That's you know and they're two and three bedrooms. That's not singles. That's couples and families. Now I want to come back to that. I want you to think about that property just for a second. We all smart, we know this property. You've driven past it

dozens of times. Think about it just for a second. People turn left or right on South Street to go to the Walmart Plaza. They'll go straight going south to go to Kroger or 869. Go north to hit downtown. Think about this. Remember Poston Road is to the south. Post Road Elementary and about the same distance is John R. Wooden Middle School to the north. That is a very busy road. Sometimes it's hard for us to get out of our driveways. It's hard to get out of our driveways. Now with 23 townous just with couples, that's 43 people. Now, how many people do you know, couples and families only have one car? It's just me and my wife. We have two. So that's at least 23 cars, probably at least 40. Add 40 new cars to that intersection trying to That is a zoning issue. 40 new cars trying to get in and out on that intersection. And remember, there's also that little side road that goes into the old plaza. Where was it? The Kroger used to be the Marshall. I take that twice a day going to and from work. people that people go down it all the time. All those buses and now you're adding all those cars. Here's the one that gets me. Now I've adjusted it to take the new 23. They all couples. That's 43. We add the amount of kids. You're looking up to 75 people going to be crammed in to that property at that intersection. That's a zoning issue and I'm asking on behalf of our neighborhood,

think of, you know, you talk about wanting it to fit in and and be what what goes with our neighborhood. Last business, the last meeting, old business, you talked with a gentleman, business owner downtown who wanted to paint his building. And you had the discussion, was it brick, was it stone, was it plaster, was it masonry of some sort? And you had a long discussion of whether he should be able to paint it because you wanted it to fit with what the downtown was. And to to make sure that it was commensurate with everything that was down there. And the downtown is very beautiful. And when that courthouse gets done, our downtown is going to be gorgeous. And that was good. I am all for that thing. What I'm asking, what our neighborhood is asking is that you give our neighborhood where we live that same consideration in this zoning request. There's not a threetory building in our area and you're going to put up 23 town houses that are three stories on a corner. It's one of the busiest in our area with the buses going twice a day. actually three times a day because of the schedule where they go back out to the high school with the downtown traffic and people going to Walmart to Kroger. Please spend at least that much consideration. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. You got a minute left.

I'm sorry. You up next? Uh, I live at 1190 South End Street. And your name is Bradley Anderson. Bradley Anderson.

I've lived at that residence with my wife 40 years. And I see people like he said, building these buildings is going to make blind corner. There's at least 25 people a day that stop sign airway. See it all the time. Students, stuff like that. [clears throat] The IG building. They're running like, you know, he called a yard sale. I called a secondhand shop anymore. But the other business that was in there, that gentleman had a long-term lease. He was paying $1,500 a month for the last three years and had a long-term lease on a gentleman's agreement. $1,500 a month for the whole year, not just for the two months that he was in there. So, he I had talked to him personally. He basically was asked to drop his lease so that they could sell his property. I don't know what the reason is why they had to do it, but that's their business, not mine. But where I live at in my house, these apartments, they're going to build threetory town homes here. I believe in home ownership. Like you guys said while ago, I think people should own if you're going to have something in town. I think they should own it. It shouldn't be a rental for a couple guys and no offense for some people to come in, grab some land that they don't have and make a fortune off of people forever. We got a lot of that going on and it ends up being rents are too high. People don't can't stay in the rent, can't stay there. So when they can't keep them full, we start lowering rent or we start sectioning. We had the same problem going on here a couple years ago. Council what the guy that owns the March building brought the same thing up

was going to do the same thing. These gentlemen have not told us anything about how much that rents are going to be to live there with all them children. They've got areas marked out for the dog parks for the dogs to go poop in the yard. Your time's up. Put the yards in. Yeah, I I want to do it next.

I'm not comfortable public speaking and you probably can hear me, but I'll speak. You're fine. Did you sign in? I did not. Okay. If you because I did not plan to speak. Okay. Well, you sign in. Okay. We'll make it as easy as we can for you. What is your name? I am Mary Reiner. R Y N A R D RER. R Y N A R D N A R D. And Mary, you're a neighbor. I did not receive a notice, which pisses me off, but I am at 11:59 and you're talking about 1190.

Okay. It's a

what I want to say is that all the homes in the neighborhood were built the same year roughly I was which is 1950. These are single family onetory small residences and I do not believe again with the traffic that this is the place to reszone anything more than what we have which is doubles. And that's what I have to say. I've been there 37 years, half my life, and I'm the newcomer on the street. So, I'm against and do what you will. But in 10 or 15 years, we're going to all be dead and gone and then you can tear down the neighborhood and put up whatever. Thank you.

Next. Did you already sign in? Yeah. And your name is Michelle Davis. Michelle Davis. Yeah, I'm connected to their area. I'm at 1180 South Maryland Street. Okay.

So, I'm next door to 1190. So, the way it's scheduled to look, it'll be pointed right into my backyard. So, that and right beside my house. So, I do have concerns about the value that it's going to do to my home and for my family having I don't know all these homes peering into my grandkids and my kids, you know, when they're playing in the backyard. Yeah. And then I have is this what's best for this area? Threestory building is huge whenever it comes to just having one-story houses all in that area. We already know, at least I know the bad dealings this company, this person has already had in the past with other businesses. unfinished projects, uh, court suing, being sued by the state, you know, like we do we want that someone to be responsible for that big of an area being over all these people that are going to be renting off of them, you know, like uh let's see um will the work be done in an adequate time? Is this the best use of the space? uh already having issues with business plan and paperwork and everything else. Is are they going to be able to get the spacing and everything under control? Um it's the plumbing the plumbing's always been an issue over there. The the city has to come out every year and and uh flush that system because it gets all backed up into all of our homes on that whole road. So, how are you going to put all these people on that road? It just doesn't make sense. It's so many more people flushing and waste coming out of

there. Um, let's see. Uh, that's pretty much all I have except for, you know, this business that he has now isn't the business that was he was sued for, but this could have a big effect on our in our city if you guys improve something so huge in such a small area and then he gets to build on it and then doesn't finish this project and and is in control of all these people's futures, you know, like who was just not going to answer the phone whenever they call with an issue, you know, like we just don't know. But it's proven. All you have to do is look it up that this is something that he's known. [clears throat] Thank you.

Anybody else that would like to speak? Yes, sir. St. Right. So, did [clears throat] you already sign in? I have. My name is My name is David Eastwood and I live at 1260 South Maine. Okay. Which is directly across from the old city lot. Okay.

Um so they have touched on the issues that I was this area is so congested right now. right there at South Street and Main Street. It's the biggest intersection. School buses are running out to the high school. School buses are running to Poston Road Elementary. And school buses are running to um John Arwood Middle School. And so I I sit right there where I can see that stop sign. And [clears throat] that's not exaggerating how many people run that stop sign every single day. Every single day I sit right there. My I have a screen in porch. So my wife and I plan on retiring and and being able to look out there. Yeah, I do look at save a lot but I knew that when I went into it. So I mean this is so congested right there. and he had touched on the parking, but according to this plan right here, there's 60 parking spaces and that's there's 60 cars that's going to be pulling in and out of there. I don't know how many people per unit that that you know all these units, but that's a lot of people. Like she touched on, it's like my house was built in 1940. I've not had sewage back up into my house, but if it was to ever back up, it's going into my basement. So, you know, with that much flushing toilets, doing laundry, stuff like that, if it gets built, what what kind of recourse do I have if the sewer backs up

and now I have sewage that just filled my basement? And I'm just concerned about this high density. Um it's the saber lot right now is 13 foot8 tall. The proposed is what Mr. um Gossip had said was a 30 foot tall building. So I I brought a couple pictures. I don't know if anybody even cares to look at it, but 13'8 compared to 30 foot, that's over twice as high. So, my house is not going to get any sunshine. I'll never see another sunrise like I have on these pictures. And I mean, it it's just, you know, where's the snow going to go if the sunlight doesn't get onto that road there up Main Street? It stays froze. There's no thawing of any snow or ice. Right now, um the city pushes they push the snow, of course, there's nowhere else to put it. So, they push the snow down Main Street and it goes into my yard in my sidewalk. So, these units, if they push the snow out, where are they going to push it to? Out there on the road. and then make the city push it back into my yard and my sidewalk. And I cleared this I cleared the sidewalk off every winter because there are people that have wheelchairs down through that area and there's a lot of school kids walk down that sidewalk every winter. I go out there and I clear that sidewalk off.

Well, your time's up. I appreciate you coming in. Thank you, sir. Next. A couple things I wanted to Did you sign here? My name is Nicholas Davis. I live at 1180. Nicholas Davis.

Yes, sir. Uh, my wife touched on a one big thing for me. We had had plumbing issues um back last spring. I had to rent an augur from in a pinch and I ran 85 foot of line through my my clean out and never hit a tree route or anything and I didn't know what to do. I called a plumbing friend of mine. He said, "Well, if if your problem's not your cleanout, then it's got to be the city sewer." So, I I took it upon myself to go to the manhole cover and lifted it up. And sure enough, the sewer was about 8 in from from flowing out of the manhole cover. And I just had a couple uh concerns the last meeting we had. What are 30 more units on that corner there going to do to the infrastructure of the neighborhood? Um I'm not opposed to to ridding the neighborhood of blight or upgrading the neighborhood in any any way or shape, but uh I find it a little absurd to say you're going to build threetory structures in a residential neighborhood. And u my my main concern is my privacy. Uh somebody here alluded to um the fact that we were going to have um threetory buildings right up to my property line. Well, that is a severe invasion of my privacy and I'm just wondering where, you know, where my privacy rights begin. That's that's really all I had to say. Every everything else has been touched upon. Appreciate

Well, thank you. Thank you. Anybody else that would like to speak for or against? Dale, I would like to have your input on the what could be put in to the B2 retail business. So, so that the planning commission knows the the businesses that could go into that existing building that's there now. Not just the building, the lots that that that it is on.

Correct.

Including across South Street. So in B2, local business representative uses would be retail business establishments such as appliance stores, auto accessory stores, bakeries, small grocery store, convenience market, booker stationary store, cafe or restaurant, camera or photographic supply, laundromats, laundry, ice cream or candy store, delicatessa, Offices, drugstore, fabric shop, floor covering store, floor shop, gift shop, habedasher or women's ready toear shop, hardware or paint store, hobby shop, jewelry store, meat market, shoe store, variety store, branch bank, funeral home, barber shop, beauty shop, church, and schools. So that building could be sectioned out and there could be a lot of traffic in and out of there like when there was swabs IG.

That's correct. Dale, couldn't it also be an automatic car wash, a vape shop? Uh probably that was just the representative uses. We do have a table in our ordinance as well uh which is table one primary authorized uses. So, that's going to get you some more examples of what could be put into B2. Um, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Is it possible that you could put inside storage inside that building?

Uh, storage is a different category I think under ordinance self storage um is a different category than B2. Okay.

So, what I wanted the commission members to know there is that most of us have lived here for a long time and we've seen obviously the save a lot. I know when Swabs was there, it was a main hub. That's been 30 plus years. think and South Street's not was not traveled as much as it is now. So, uh again, what we're doing tonight is reszoning asking for a favorable or nonfavorable to send to city council on this property. Gary here.

So on behalf of the city, so is anybody you've got any other questions? I'd like to entertain a motion. I don't have any questions, Joe. But if we look at our comprehensive plan, it says the residential. You look at that. It says the district's I don't know if anybody looked at that besides you looked at this, right? Yes.

Yes. It says the district's primary tend for single family residential housing where traditional subdivisions of low to medium tendencies are allowed. Developments must be connected to the water and sew utilities on a case-bycase basis. The city should also consider increased density in that district. This could be in the form of two family homes, triplexes, quadlexes or similar structures. And here's the my wording or that the wording of this that fit in the neighborhood context. So I I think you know I mean I think we really have to look at what the comprehensive plan says. Look, I'll comment on this as well. Uh, Mr. Chairman, um, I think I've I've tried to be very consistent in my stance. I think that there is a need for dedicated, purpose-built rental housing in our community. Um, our non-owner occupancy rate is higher than the state average and it may be outside of our purview here. But if the city can do something to promote owner occupancy single family residences, I'm for that. We have, and that's what I mean. We have a lot of single family homes that are non-owner occupied. Those are rentals,

correct? And I'm not trying there is a correlation. You can drive down the street and I I I I don't like making blanket statements, but you would have pretty good odds of choosing what is a rental and what is owner occupied. There's pride of ownership. That's why my stance has been I would I would rather see dedicated apartment rentals so that those single family residents can residences can be purchased and owner occupied. I don't I don't have a great grasp on what our role in that is, but that's why I've tried to be consistent on the the need for apartments. Um, that being said, I'm very uh sympathetic to the com the public comments tonight. I have multiple um four family uh four family quadlexes. I'll say um in an R2 neighborhood. Only one of those four is currently zoned R3 the proper way, but I've got three within a baseball throw of me that are zoned improperly. Um, and I I share some of the same headshaking moments as the public does with with some of this. Um, so I'm I don't I guess I I this this one is

I want to be consistent in my stance. I think my I'm hesitant to I guess my biggest drawback on this is that there is currently a commercial building there. In a perfect world, it'd be a vacant lot. And if it's a vacant lot, it fits it fits the comprehensive plan to change it from business to residential. And I don't think there's any question about that. Um, it worries me that there's a building there and and we reszone it and it could end up being some sort of apartment complex in and of itself.

Any other comments, Steve?

Mr. Chairman, I also am very sympathetic to all the people who are here speaking tonight. um not easy to do to stand up publicly and and share your feelings and your emotions about this um important issue to where you live in your home. I live in town. I I appreciate that. Um looking at the comprehensive plan, it does encourage mixed land uses. It encourages us to consider compact design versus taking farmland and and growing in that direction. Um it talks the comprehensive plan talks about creating a range of housing types and opportunities, walkable neighborhoods. Um certainly is this compatible is is the potential to have an apartment community compatible with your neighborhood? Maybe not with single family homes, but Main Street, um as it was pointed out, there are a couple of schools within a stones throw of you. There is a large shopping center that hopefully will get rehabbed at some point. Um, there's a cemetery down the street. So, it's not it's not a suburban development. Um, it is in town and it's on Main Street. Arguably, it's an eyesore. You you may disagree with that, but it's certainly underutilized as it sits. So, those are all issues that come from the comprehensive plan that ask us to to evaluate those when we think about changing the zoning. Thank you. And my take on it is that the Swab family is obviously selling lots of properties after Mr. Swab has passed away. So

whether this is reszoned or somebody else comes before us and buys this, Swabs is going to sell this one way or another. Rick, you had a very good point there. Thank you, Steve. Thank you for your input. So, do we have a I entertain a motion?

I entertain a motion to deny docket number 255026 based on the situation with the drainage in the area. I I have noticed before too that after a heavy rain that area is there's a lot of standing water and so if this gentleman has a problem with his you know has had a problem with drainage in his house I think obviously you know the proposed apartments um would just exacerbate the situation. So I to entertain a motion to deny.

And Miller made a motion to deny.

Is there a second recommendation? Yeah, it's that would be a nonfavorable. It would be a nonfavorable reon favorable. Sorry, non favorable recommendation. Joe, if I could say something before we we vote on this. We have a motion, but no second. So, you can't talk on anything. Okay.

So, do we have a second? I'll second so that we can have a continued discussion and then we'll get to a vote. Steve Bodie. Okay. So, Steve Bodie seconds the motion to deny the request. Mr. Chairman, maybe we ask the city to share whatever thoughts they have about the issue in front of us. Mr. Shrader, do you have anything?

Not at this time. I I've worked with this group. They've uh Mr. [snorts] Coffee was a part of that. We've sat down and went through the process. So the the planning here is put together and this is just a resoning. So things like sewage and water runoff and all that stuff will be addressed at [clears throat] a later date. I I think I would like to clarify and Anna I'd like to make a statement on you were talking about water and so forth. I believe that these people are talking about sewage. Okay.

Okay. Is that clarifying? She's not as

we can't have no more discussion. No. I think we all I don't know but I I want to keep this property I would like to see this property residential. Okay. I mean you drive through there. Yes. I totally agree that there's there's one twotory house. There's one one story and a half house in that whole neighborhood and I want to keep it residential. We've got a motion on the floor. Well, I thought we were discussing the motion though. Not. Yeah. You got a second. So now you can have discussion. Okay. Yeah, Mr. Chairman, will may we ask uh Gary Oaks to share

uh Mr. Bro, I I don't think that's a good idea given some certain potential conflicts. So, no, I would say no. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Yeah, I I I think we wanted to keep it residential. The question becomes does it we try to do it to R3, you know, and that's what's before us. So, uh, you know, later on we can maybe we can control as a the commission the different things that go the height 09 yards at that a [clears throat] later date. If we don't change it to residential, then at any time and right now you can put a liquor store in there or a car wash and without coming before this commission. So, you know, it's it's a balancing act for us folks. You know, I I we hear what you're saying, but do you want one or the other? I don't know. And like Joe said, you know, I think they're liquidating their stuff and so they could sell to the highest bidder. So I'd like to see it go residential. So is that a guarantee that it would be a townhouse? If if we if we change what the what the residential where the the business to a residential,

is that guaranteed? It would be a townhouse. Well, what would be guaranteed is anything under R3 would then be able to be built on each individual parcel. So, uh, under your ordinance with R3, it states, "This district designates the most densely developed multifamily residential units. It includes [clears throat] multif family uses consisting of three or more units with minimum lot size based on the number of dwelling units in a building. The requirements as to minimum size of lots in ground floor area buildings are less than those specified for other residential uses. And then we have various tables in the ordinance that talks about you know the the amount of square footage per lot. You got setback requirements that have to be met. You've got all you got height requirements on what can be built within the R3 zoning.

So that would come back in a different they would have to comply with all that. Yes. Okay. Traditionally an apartment community.

And like I said, I don't disagree [clears throat] with the swap building in the parking lot. Don't disagree with that at all since I said that from the beginning. It's just like everybody has said, does this really fit in? Now, am I against them putting houses there or apartments there or whatever? No, not at all. but not in the the capacity that it looks as of now. That would be my only

And that's stuff that would come back before us. That's right. After they all the steps. So that's not anything that we're right concerned with tonight. You're correct. I was just saying that for our contract order, please. Could you verify If you go to R3, you can't sir. It's not public hearing is over. This is now discussion. You're talking about sir. This is discussion with the uh commission members only at this time of meeting. Don't care about that. Okay. Question. No. No sir.

So we've got a mo motion on the floor. We've got a second. Marilyn, would you? And this is to send a unfavorable recommendation to city council. Can you remind us of voting yes, what that means, and voting no what it means? Yes would be that you agree with the unfavorable recommendation. recommendation and no would be that you don't agree with the unfavorable.

I'll call Marilyn off guard.

Richard Baston. Yes. Steve Bod. No Jim Burkhart. No Joe Disney. No Rick Dural. No. And Miller. Yes. Yes. Jason Scott. No. myself. No. So that's

motion that motion six no. So that motion failed. Six to two was the vote on the und [clears throat] recommended. So then it goes to council then you can you can ask if anybody has a different motion like anybody have [clears throat] a different motion. I do chairman I would move that we recommend for approval docka PC number 255017 to change the zoning to R3. Isn't it 26 though not 27? Oh I'm sorry. 26. 2526.

And you said what now Steve? I'm sorry. That we um make a motion to recommend to city council that the properties in question be reszoned to R3.

Do a roll call. We need a second. Oh, I'm sorry. Who Who second it? Did somebody second that? I'll second. Jim Bart second. Okay. Okay. So, second vote. Rick Baston. No. No. Steve Bod, yes. Jim Burkhart, yes. Joe Disney, yes. Rick Dal, yes. Ann Miller, no.

Jason Scott, yes. And myself, yes. Get confused. So that vote is six to two with Mr. Heat abstaining. 6 to 2.

So the motion carries docket number PC25026, the reszoning of B2 and R2 to R3. We will send to city council for a favorable recommendation on reszoning. You stand on the other two, didn't you? No. stand on the other. [snorts]

Okay. So, new business. Rick Bernal wants to discuss procedural. Okay. Um I don't I don't like doing this because I don't Kevin knows I um I make plenty of mistakes in my job. uh try just try to limit them. Um I part of my preparation for this role has been to um view other plan commission meetings as well as attend some in person. So um I think last month highlighted an issue that we could just avoid going forward. Um I think it's kind of obvious. We we need to know at the start of a meeting if public notice requirements have been met or not. Uh the the situation last month was avoidable in the context that if the mailings did not meet the requirements that could have been announced right at the onset of the meeting and an announcement made that anybody here to to to participate in that docket number we won't be we would not be hearing that at this meeting. Please look for further um further notice. So, I I just think it it's important to state that here. Um I don't know whose responsibility that ultimately falls on. Um I do know that, you know, we're a smaller municipality, so I'm not we don't necessarily have the budget or the staff as a larger plan commission might. Um,

but I think moving forward it would be nice to know at the beginning that each docket number has met their requirements to actually be on the docket at that meeting. So, just wanted to kind of clear the air on that. Um the second thing is uh without going into detail um our downtown commercial historic district petitions um how I put this I think the expectation should be that every petition comes in with the same information to us um if they're going to new changes to the facade, we probably or or a new construction, we probably need to see renderings of what we're, you know, across the board. Doesn't matter who the petitioner is, just it needs to be consistent. Um, I just think that's should go without saying, but it needs to be said. So, I think that's all I really had.

Are you saying Rick that that the that it should show on the renderings this is going to be continue to be blocked. This will continue this is going to be wood to be wood or whatever. I think there's a disparity in some of the renderings that we've seen recently. Um, we've seen some very good ones and then we've seen some handwritten floor plans. This also would apply to things like signage in the downtown district. True. where we've sometimes had, you know, a mockup of a sign that we can see and other times it's been described to us. Yeah. I just I I I don't want to see us get ourselves into any type of trick bag. I mean, right now, let's face it, it's not a government is not only a not always a great term right now and public trust is important. I mean, I I talk with the public every day of my job, and I don't want to break that trust. And I think any third person, any third party person should look at our decisions and even if they don't agree with our decision, they understand where we're coming from and why we make the decisions. I mean, Mr. Bod, you kind of alluded to that

earlier. Um, there should be some transparency and and I just when we have I think the downtown commercial historic district petitions probably show the largest disparity in what information were provided. Some of them, I mean, the signs, that's all we're concerned about are the signs. We don't really need to see the interior. That's not I mean, as I understand, all of the upper floors are zoned residential to begin with, so I don't need to see what they're doing inside. It is nice to see it, but we need to see what the exterior of the building looks like because if if our if our charge as plan commissioners for that district is to make sure that that build new construction and remodels are uh congruent with the neighboring properties, we probably ought to see those on a consistent basis. So,

well, I think a lot of times the petitioner is bringing us interior plans of what they're doing or we don't need to see that because that's what we have Mr. Strader for. Yeah. He sees those and he works with them. Am I not correct in that? That's correct.

And and Rick, how how do we accomplish this or all of us? I mean, how do we accomplish this? We we have to it's it's too late when they won't come to that podium next month with a petition and no rendering. I mean, we need Bob and his department to be able to share some consistent message on what is needed, right? I think so. I mean, if if we're not none of us like to be given information up here for the first time. For the first time.

Yes. Um, we know I mean at the same time I think we're all we we try to be sympathetic. I mean if it's something that I can process quickly, I don't like sitting up here feeling like a gatekeeper and and and delaying something that ultimately I'm going to agree with. But we need a consistent message passed on to the petitioners that this is the information we need. We need it in a timely manner so that we can make informed decisions. suggestion I might make and maybe something that you guys don't want to hear with additional possible workload on you, but I think in regards to the downtown district and and wanting to have a consistency in what you want to see if someone comes, whether it be a sign or whether it be the front of their facade for the building, it would probably behoove to get an application together. And that application would outline everything that is going to be expected of that applicant. And if they don't have everything on that application, then the office downstairs will tell them, "You're not going on the agenda because you don't have everything." So really, that's probably where it lies for this particular issue is to have that application process in place. And that really I think would then put before you at least for this particular request something that you guys can guarantee all right each month we know if we've got something on the agenda that's downtown related they've had to fill out that application someone has looked and seen what it is they have submitted. So with that said, can I ask for a subcommittee to get together just like we did with the sign workers, but we won't involve any city council members. Um

like to ask anybody I mean this is this will be a little bit different than what you guys did with the signed ordinance because what you're what you're going to be basing it on is you're going to you already have a a ordinance in place. You know what the ordinance says. Okay. So you're basically just looking at what the law is and you're saying all right on this application here's what I want to see but you know I want to see renderings and these renderings need to be and you can specify what do you want to see you want to see 3D pictures of it you I mean how what is it how detailed do you want it because that's something that you're allowed to do under the ordinance itself. Okay.

So you're not asking for the council to change the ordinance or anything. You're just basically developing a application that complies with the ordinance. So, in a subcommittee, u [snorts] I think I'd like to see an odd number of people. Uh if you'd like to volunteer for that, I'll uh take that subcommittee would meet here in chambers. Well, the other thing I'd like to see is Rick's points perfect deal is too, but when that comes in front of us, that signage that they want to put on there, it needs to be it needs to fit the signage recommendations before they ever don't even bring it to us because I don't I don't want to do it again. So if it's not fit, if if wh whomever looks at this and goes, "Nope, it's not in ordinance, then they need to start over."

Classic example is the community foundation. They came in with a sign that was too big. Yeah. So if uh so if we're looking at it and goes we already know that if this fits we're good on that part. So we'd be looking at making an a form an application to give to the building department of expectations that we want to see. Am I saying that right Mr. J? Yeah. And this would be for the downtown area. Yes. Yeah.

I Joe, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be opposed to being part of that. But the problem is this Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I'm pretty busy. So I can't, you know what I'm saying? And so you know, we don't have to do it in the month of October. We can do it in the month of se November. We don't have a meeting in December. Okay. Am I correct in that, Mr.? Um, I believe you are, but I would defer to Miss Witch. She might have a better idea. [snorts] Um, but anyway, I I So, Mr. Burkhart would be on that subcommittee.

I possibly could could could would help also. Um, if Rick Dell will twist my arm, I'll I'm not doing anything else. So, so we got Rick. Rick's the most. Well, and you know, Rick is the one that brought it up. [laughter] So, Rick should be the one that chairs the subcommittee, although you can defer that to Steve Bowen if you'd like. I can be part of who else do you have on there now? So, we got Jim Bartard. Well, you if if Jason wants to take my place, that's fine. He said he'd be part of it. So, I'm I'm good with that. [laughter] Okay. So, we're changing things up. Yeah. Like Jason Scott.

Okay. Subcommittee with Steve Bod. Okay. And Rick Nol. Okay. Three. and you three work it out when you can get together and then whenever you get something ready then you can bring it back to us so we can look at it and work real quick Mr. coffee. Um that the subcommittee um rules that we need to apply to that. Do we have do we meet in public? Uh no, you would not need to be in public because you're going to report back to the full commission. Okay.

And the full commission then at a public meeting would vote on what you're what you're proposing. Okay. Y [snorts] Thank you. Anything else in comprehension? Mr. Chairman, I believe it's my turn to speak now. Then

okay, it's my job as planning director for the city of Maninapolis, contrary to my legal esteemed colleagues shutting me down. I think there were points that needed to be made that we didn't recognize. Uh for instance, on this most recent project, uh I would have told you that it's an abandoned building and has been abandoned for over six years now. Something needs to be known. I would tell you the majority of the homes in that neighborhood, the immediate neighborhood are rentals. The Swap family owns the six on Maryland Street that are behind the project. Those are all rentals. across the street on uh the west side of Main Street. Four of the two of those are three of those are B3 B2 businesses already and uh four down through there are rentals at the end of the stain street main street of the two doubles there actually four doubles that are twotory units with a hip roof on them making those within 4 foot of the height of what was proposed. Those are the kind of things I'm supposed to look at before they come to you. Uh we talk about traffic studies. I looked at the traffic involved in this. The traffic would be involved with 30 homeowners is less than you have with a commercial property in an outdoor property commercial all day long. So that's there's difference there. Uh later on uh the issues of sewers. times. Don't know why Dale didn't cut that off, but anyway, that's not part of the zoning consideration that we're even discussing at that point. So, we have a number of those things that we need to do. I think we could handle that. Workforce development housing needed to be explained. Workforce development housing is generally defined as teachers, firemen, that kind of an income level. That didn't be a start for them because that's our problem in the

city. It's a problem nationwide of all. You have a conflict of interest in these. My job is planning director. I understand. But you have a conflict of interest. You cannot give your input to this commission when you have a conflict of interest. Every job that I bring forward I love your work, Gary. I love your work. But when you have a conflict of interest, you put the city of Martinsville at risk, sir. I have the city of Martinsville. And I love your work. There's a reason that we asked you to stand down. Tell me what that is. What is the conflict,

Gary? We're not going to get into that right now. Do we have anything else? Okay. I ask for a motion to adjourn. I make a motion we adjourn. Make a second. Jason Scott made a second.

We are journ. Thank you. Shut up. I stopped by the day. Toes, you were three