City Council - Regular Meeting

I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All righty. Thank you. Uh, city recorder, please call roll. Mayor Jakola, present. Council President Steinhel, here. Councelor Ki. Councelor Salvage, here. Councelor Mlan and Councelor Workman

here. Okay. Move on to the consent calendar. Follow follow following items. I have to get my mouth going here. Okay. Um are considered routine and will be enacted by one motion. There will not be separate discussions on these items unless so requested. In this case, the items will be removed from the consent calendar and considered separately. Agenda. City uh Lebanon City Council agenda January 28th, 2026. easement, private access easement to Third Street. Um, those are the items. Is there a motion to approve or deny? Move to approve. Second. Motion's been made to approve. It's been second. All in favor? I.

All opposed. Motion passes. Okay. There's no presentations tonight. I don't have any cards. I don't think there's any public comment. So, we'll just move on. Um, regular session. We're going to be first uh item is interviews and appointments of city council position ward one. Um at this at this time we'll proceed with the interviews to fill the ward one city council vacancy. I would like to thank the candidates for submitting applications and your willingness to serve our community. We appreciate your interest in public service and your commitment to potentially serving Ward One and the and the city and for the remainder of this council's term uh which expires December 31st, 2026. The council will take turns on asking questions of each candidate. Following the interview, the council will discuss the candidates and consider a motion to appoint the candidate who best meets the needs of the position. Um way we'll way we'll do it council is we got six questions. There's one one additional question. I'll ask the first question and then if we just start on Michelle with you and just

bounce around. Yeah. All righty. Okay. I'd like to now invite William Marcelus Angel Ford. That correct? Okay. Please come forward. Make sure the mic's on. if it should be on. If it's green, I think it's red. So, just hit the button. All righty. All right. Are you ready? Yes, sir. Okay. Let me uh I'll ask the first question. Do you understand the responsibilities of city council position? And are you able to attend the regular city council council meeting schedule, which includes meetings on the second Wednesday of each month at 6:00 p.m. And if needed, the additional meetings like today um on the fourth Wednesday at noon.

Yes, sir. Michelle, if you would kick it off with the first question. Okay. Or I guess it'd be the second question, but are are you first one on your list? Okay. Now that we understand who's doing what here, welcome. Thank you for being here today. What do you perceive to be the three most important concerns facing Lebanon?

Uh number one, I would say is uh preparing for future growth. Uh Lebanon's growing quite a bit. um not just Lebanon but also uh the surrounding communities and and the state in general is at least here in the Lama Valley is is also growing. Um I would say maintaining excellence in essential functions uh city functions like the police, fire, schools, utilities and infrastructure, roads, etc. That would be my number two. Um and uh that ties in with homelessness, crime, public safety. uh it's kind of all wrapped up in a big whole package there. Um and then number three, I would uh consider financial stewardship uh of the city's resources uh keeping taxes and fees low and getting the best value from them. So

okay, thank you. Thanks for being here, Marcelus. Um, what areas do what areas of Lebanon do you think present an opportunity for redevelopment and revitalization? What do you think would be an appropriate approach for the city?

So, um, there's a lot of, uh, v vacant properties um, around town and um, uh, and also dilapidated properties and what have you. I I think they could be put to better use. Um, it's a very complex issue. you got uh property owners um and their needs and agendas and things involved as well. Um but that's that's something that I I think needs to be addressed. Uh if if we could and we have to be careful as as a city about um how we go about that. We don't want to trample on people um uh tell people what to do with their property, but uh trying to make sure that uh um we're we're promoting excellence in our in our city. Um the uh little strip mall there um uh they got the uh reptile room and what have you that was not looking so good here uh previously uh when that secondhand shop was there. it it's been cleaned up some. I I I think that area could improve more. I think there's other areas like that. Um it also gets into a debate about, you know, if things get to improve, then, you know, the tenants renting those spaces have to potentially pay more in rent. And so, we don't want to drive people out through the gentrification. But overall, in general, um you know, um I live here in Lebanon. I like to take pride in our our city and I think other residents would too and just trying to u take care of of what we've got here is important. Um uh one one option that was discussed in a planning commission um meeting here that I was a part of uh a while ago was um uh allowing greater flexibility for

uh commercial properties to also have uh uh maybe some residential dwelling units added to them. I I I think um uh taking our city uh rules and uh uh development codes and things and and trying to see if we can uh expand them or make them more flexible so that uh it it works for people. So, if you've got a tiny lot that's really not being well utilized, but maybe if you want to put a coffee cart on it or something, I if if we can be creative about using the things that we've got, I think we've got a lot of things in our town that are underutilized that that could be put to a better use, made uh to look more attractive, etc. Um I and and so yeah, I also like the idea of promoting infill of of smaller smaller lots, smaller properties, unused properties currently. Um I'd also like to explore what tools can um be offered to property owners for improvements. um here years ago. Um I was uh at a city council meeting where a lady came in and she had just bought a new home here in Lebanon with her family and the sidewalk was uh all messed up and and as new home buyers, they didn't realize that they were responsible for the sidewalk maintenance was on a busy street here in Lebanon. Um they they were calling around different concrete uh concrete uh contractors. They weren't willing to bid the work because it was on this busy street really to do it properly that it'd have to be shut down so they could get their cement equipment. And so anyway, um it it was a mess. The city stepped in, helped this lady out. Um the city public works ended up replacing the sidewalk and then um

the the way it ended up working out was the city essentially kind of gave her a loan for for the work that was done and um uh it it it was um uh ended up being a lean on the property for for later on. uh uh she she had a period of time to pay it off, but uh if if she needed to sell um prior to that, then it would just be a lean on the on the sale of the property. I thought that was a creative way that the city council and the public works department got together to resolve a situation where the property owner was was really uh stuck. And and I I I think if we could look at um doing similar types of things maybe for not just homeowners but business owners and and other properties around um and and seeing what we can do to be creative about helping people out uh thinking outside the box. I I think that'd be a good approach. Um maybe the city could uh consider um offering uh tax incentives or or uh loan programs or or whatever for specific property improvements, properties that are specifically identified as needing some revitalization or something like that. Um anyway, those are those are some thoughts that I have. Um in that vein, I really like what uh uh Lebanon Calvary Chapel has been doing. they when they purchased the Alex building and then they um took over the old dry cleaner building, fixed that up. It's a great coffee shop now. Uh they also bought out uh Doy's Grill House that was a eyesore and a mess for years and and now it's a place where children can go and hang out in the evenings and it's a safe place. Um that that's a big deal. Um, and I I think as a city we need to get behind

organizations that are doing that, whether they're religious or or or secular or whatever. I mean, we got the uh Boys and Girls Club here that that's a really important thing for our city. Um, and uh we we we just need to uh recognize those things happening and uh support them uh as best we can. Great. Thank you. As a city council, you sometimes have to make unpopular decisions. Shocking, I know. How will you handle those who criticize you or a decision you have to make for a decision you have to make?

So, uh, a little bit about me, uh, professionally, I've been a weld inspector, been involved in quality control for the majority of my career, and, uh, I've ticked off a lot of burly welders before. So, um, I I feel like I can handle conflict very well. uh remain even keeled and uh uh talk people through their problems. So I'm not concerned about that at all. Thank you, Michelle.

Thank you. What do you see as key elements in a productive relationship between the mayor, city manager, and other counselors? Um I think most important is uh honesty and respect and having the willingness, the courage to remain engaged and uh continue communication. Uh if there's uh a heated issue or whatever, um it it's okay for people to not agree. it is important that they at least listen and and consider the other person's side and point of view. And um um I I I I think that uh uh our our current city government is uh very good at reaching out to other people and maintaining that level of decorum and putting um personal things aside and and working together for the betterment of the city of as a whole. And so, um, yeah, I would just want to, uh, see that continue.

Number five,

Marcelus, if selected, what would your top three priorities be as a city councelor? Well, I think it's a little bit bold to come in with an agenda, start telling everybody what uh what you want them to do. But, um uh that said, um some some things around town that that I think are important. One of the main things is um they're on Stoultz Hill um from the new traffic light uh on airport going out to Walker Road. We really need a sidewalk there. Um, I was driving home uh here few weeks ago. Um, it had just gotten dark. It was like 5:00, 5:30 and uh there's there's hardly any shoulder there and there's there's people there and um it it was dangerous. I was very uncomfortable driving by um at night like that. And if it if it were my kids or or my family members walking in that area, I I would not be okay with that. Um I don't know whether that's county jurisdiction or or city jurisdiction, but that that's an important thing. Um I've got some other similar um ideas along with that. Um not a big fan of the intersection of Denny School Road with Highway 34. I think we really need to take a look at that. I I know that's kind of beyond the city. Uh definitely got to get the county involved with that. Um, also the intersection of Oak Street with uh Denny School Road, um, that that little section of Denny U School Road needs straightened out and there there's an awful lot of traffic there. People kind of uh crowd the the center of the the road and uh I'm surprised there haven't been more uh traffic incidents there. Um,

another another thing that's important to me is uh attracting business and and jobs to Lebanon. Uh, we we need to keep our economy uh as strong as we can. I I I know that um uh the city can't just magically poof uh add jobs, but uh as much as we can uh facilitate that, I think that's important. Um and uh just encourage partnerships with schools, churches, community groups again to um uh get get behind the things that make sense, you know, like uh this uh deal with London Calvary Chapel uh creating a uh safe space for for kids to hang out in the evenings um here in town. I I I think that's really important and uh the more we can work together for those kinds of things. Um uh also, you know, kids are important, but you know, address homelessness and and provide resources where that makes sense. I know that's a very complicated and fraught thing, but um we we we need to be willing to do the hard work of of of of working through that.

I have a followup on that. Um, you you mentioned attracting jobs to Lebanon. What what ideas or suggestions do you have that would that would help that?

Um, I I think we could take a look at uh uh uh some of our zoning options for for different properties. Um look at um we want to be very careful about tax incentives. uh we we don't want to um uh cut ourselves short and and defund ourselves as a city, but uh you know, if if if we can uh partner with a business that's looking at at coming in and uh uh trying to find ways to make things easier for them as far as the permitting and what have you. I I think that would go a long ways. I I I I think our city for the most part is um uh pretty reasonable um and and and willing to listen and work with with people. Um but but as much as we can uh maintain a partnership with businesses and and um uh potential employers coming into town. Another thing is is uh just the existing small businesses, you know, uh if if we can work with local shops and stuff. Um and if if if they've got a um a non-compliance thing as far as code or whatever, trying to work with them constructively rather than just going out there and dropping the hammer and finding the heck out of them or whatever. Um address the concerns. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying if they're if they've got a issue with with with leaking oil from vehicles or something that that we just turn a blind eye, but you know, try and find a a reasonable path forward where we're uh considering their interests as well.

Thank you. Thank you. Do you have any additional comments or questions for council? Uh

I don't think so. Oh. Um, so I I I I I guess I do. Um, so, uh, child is behind me here. She's my neighbor. She's an excellent person. She's terrific. And, um, uh, part of why I'm here is uh, a friend of mine let me know about this opening. I I didn't know who I would be uh, uh, up against or whatever, but I just want to let you know I I was uh, working with Shiloh Sum on the planning commission. I I absolutely support her and uh would would not uh consider it a loss if you chose her over me. She's an excellent person. Thank you.

All righty. Thank you so much. I know it takes time to to we we sent out these questions. It takes time. You sit there. Trust me, we've all done it. Sit there and you try to come up with with logical answers that fit your principles and and it takes time out of your day. So, we do appreciate you preparing and and coming in and and doing the interview. Thank you for the opportunity. All righty. Thank you.

The next interview, Shila Mallaloy. Come on down. The next contestant. Yeah. Hello. Let me let me do this here. Uh, do you understand the responsibility of your city council position? Are you able to attend regular city council meeting schedule which includes meetings on the second Wednesday of each month at 6 p.m. and if needed additional meetings on the fourth Wednesday at noon? Yes. Okay. Um, we can we can start over here. You can do the first. Yeah, let's change it up. Go first.

I don't know. I haven't practiced this question. What do you perceive to be the three most important concerns facing Lebanon? Thank you, Dave. Um, I made notes, so I just want you to know I typed these out ahead of time, so I'm not copying myself, but I too listed um the houseless community, the long-term financial stability of the city, and ensuring that our infrastructure keeps up with the pace of our growth.

Okay, thank you. follow up on that, Shila. Uh you you mentioned the the homeless community. Do you have um any suggestions for making that situation better?

I think that there is a lot of information that maybe you guys have access to that I don't just being on the street and seeing um seeing the issues at hand. I love the sleep trailer personally. Um it was located at the river center and I have uh personally heard uh stories um through their organization about how they've actually helped people get into permanent housing through their program. Um I would like to explore a little bit more about what that looks like from a city council perspective. Um, it breaks my heart to see families living in their cars and things and I want to be a part of the solution. I don't want to be one of the people who are just sitting on Facebook commenting on on, you know, what we're seeing, but not actually doing anything to solve the problem. So, I would look forward to collaborating with the council um learning what is already in place, what has already been tried um and how um maybe some of my input or some of my ideas might help make a difference.

All right. What areas of Lebanon do you think present an opportunity for redevelopment and revitalization? What do you think would be an appropriate approach for the city? So again, uh we have several um commercial buildings that have been vacant for long periods of time. Um and they could be repurposed for small businesses, local services, or mixeduse spaces instead of sitting empty. I also see the downtown as a real strength for Lebanon, but as we're growing and changing, I see that parking can be challenging um at times and that we might need to give some attention to that as Lebanon grows. And I'm also aware that there are some businesses, some small businesses that have been struggling. Um, some smaller restaurants and things have gone out of business. Um, and you know, that's concerning to me. We're already a small town and I would like to see them uh, you know, gain strength and grow. Um, and I believe that the city can help by working with um, partners to support business and encourage affordable housing, um, attract good jobs while preserving Lebman's character. I also think that I'm the executive director of a nonprofit by day and one of the largest obstacles that is faced by the community that I serve is access to resources. Um it's it's an obstacle to get there uh getting to Albany from um Lebanon sometimes can be a challenge. Uh getting to Eugene or Salem if the resources aren't in Albany. So, I'd like to see some of those spaces also utilized to bring resources to our community to help overcome some of those uh barriers uh that they're facing.

Thanks. You got number you got number three. I'm on number three. Yes. I was thinking you were asking him too. Sorry.

Um welcome. Thank you for being here. So, as a city councelor, you sometimes have to make unpopular decisions. How will you handle those who criticize you or a decision you have made? I have to confess this question gave me the most pause. Um, I I care a lot about people and their perspectives and I also see that as a strength. Um, I will listen to understand uh their concerns, the community's concerns. I'll communicate uh openly with them and I'll explain my reasoning clearly. Um even when my decisions might be difficult, I would want the people to know that they were heard or even feel heard. Um and that I acted thoughtfully and within my role as a counselor. Um I'm not always even as an executive director with my own staff, I don't always have the most popular opinion. Um, but I find that when people feel that they were heard and and that what they had to say was taken into consideration that oftentimes um that will set the path for uh better conversation and better understanding.

Okay. What do you see as key elements in a productive relationship between the mayor, city manager, and us, the council? Um, open and honest communication I think is one of the most important. Having a mutual respect for one another. Um, understanding that we have clear roles. Um, using active listening and extending grace um, when there are differences of opinion. Extending what? I didn't hit that. Extending grace.

Grace. Thank you. All right. If selected, what would your top three priorities be as a Lebanon city counselor? Well, you're going to learn real fast. I'm all about relationships. So again, this answer is about listening to the community to understand their needs, educating myself on the key issues so that I can help make informed decisions, and working hard to support the policies that strengthen um Lebanon and Lebanon's future. Those are my top three goals.

Okay, so that was that was listening and and sorry, I missed the second. I want to I want to listen to the community to understand listen to understand their needs as well as you guys you know listen to understand um I want to educate myself on the key issues um so that I can make informed decisions I think I know but you need to inform yourself there's probably more information and then working hard to support the policies that strengthen Lebanon's future followup on that follow-ups he has lots of followup I didn't know those were allowed. I'm just trying to stay stay on script here. Oh, they're encouraged. I didn't even get this list when I interviewed for this. Somebody shorted me. Me,

too. Why are you looking at me? Look at look at these people. So, you you kind of those are I mean those are kind of vague answers. Um do you have any do you have any things that stand out as priorities you you would like to tackle like you know that are on your list? you look around at the community and these are priorities for you as a person.

Yeah. And I think that my answer to number one um is fits with this too. I think our houseless community, we need to address our address our houseless community um and the long-term financial stability of um Lebanon. Um I think that those things are um extremely important. Do you you want more? Well, I mean, those those are good. Those are good.

Yeah. I that's just what I'm seeing every day, but um in a perfect world, um resources, I I really think we need more resources available to families in our community. And I think we have a lot of organizations that can help make that happen and are we utilizing them? And are we all working together um to find solutions um for our most common issues, you know, such as the houseless community um and things like that. So, thank you.

Whenever you're ready, Michelle. Yeah, we'll just wait for you. We're good. Do you have any additional question? No, I just want to thank you all for the opportunity. Um, I appreciate all the hard work that you've done and and if selected, I look forward to learning from all of you and and contributing what I have to offer. Thanks for your interest, Charlotte. Thank you so much. Alrighty. Well, we can have a discussion now as council. Does anybody have a point of discussion they'd like to bring up?

I think uh both of these candidates would be wonderful to have. I um this is clearly going to be a difficult decision for me because I think either one would be great in this role. I I appreciate you both um coming out and I've I went through this exact thing. This is how I was on the city council. There was a vacant spot and I had to interview with six or seven other people and it was nerve-wracking. And then to hear the council discuss you and your answers, it's well it's nerve-wracking for us too. You know, it's it's not easy. But I appreciate you both coming in. I think you would both be great fits for city council. Um I think I'm going to need a little more discussion amongst the group to to

sway my vote here because I'm I'm pretty even on this. I'm looking to Michelle, Dave. Yeah. Ditto. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we can lose here. I do. I I was going to say I wish we had two more counselors here because it'd be a little a little more input, but I guess us three get to make the decision. Us four.

Us four do get to make that decision today. But I'd remind everybody that there is an election coming up in in what? November. But May, I think it's May or June or Jul it's I should look at Julie. I'm looking at Ron. May is the primaries. Yes. But I think the application for this would open in June or July. um which is just what five six short months from now. Um we have a filing period from July 6th to July 31st.

Excellent. So while we're not going I don't feel like we're going to make a wrong decision and whoever isn't picked could also then run in November. Um, I think both, uh, this is hard because I think the last couple times I've done this, one or two times were on Zoom and then the other times were at the travel station where people walked outside and they probably could hear us through the walls, but like I realize now that I'm having this conversation with the two people sitting in front of us and it's it's a little nerve-wracking for me. Um, I think again there's not a bad decision to be made. Um, I do share a lot of Shiloh's concerns about um coming to some sort of I don't even know what this what what what I'm trying to something with the house the houseless community is growing. We do have like every other municipality in Oregon. Um uh some growth that we could we can do there. Um what that looks like for council I'm not sure. Um, but I do share that. Um, and I appreciate it that she brought that up.

I with with that and gosh, I say some dumb things all the time. The houseless concern is a concern for everybody. It's a a concern for everybody in United States, but it's too big of an animal for us to figure out how to eat. Yes, we need to we need to we need to take advantage of services better, but and I'm I'm it is awkward when somebody's right in front of you. I know. I told there I'm glad that you that's not one of my that's not my preferred priority. Okay. So, sure. Turn away.

Yeah, I know. Can you just just don't look at us while we're having this conversation? Um I I one of one thing that was brought up was also fire in schools and just a reminder that we have no um real I mean in some ways we we're competing for the same for diff the same pot of tax dollars that they are. So um that I did make sure to make note of that in here that those were mentioned and we're only talking about city services um as a city counselor. So,

I did appreciate both the the research and like I said, I didn't get a cheat sheet when I interviewed this. I was terrible at it. I had no idea what you're very good in in research from what you both did. Marcelus, I especially appreciate the in-depth you went into and the the ideas you had and the things you gave us. I appreciate it. I will I will say this that that uh it seemed like well both both uh interviews they they were humble which is good. Uh they they talked a lot about similar similar things. I think the biggest difference between the two candidates were were uh um uh some uh one talked more about safety concerns with traffic interchanges. um both talked about infrastructure and property development, that type stuff. Uh houseless community was was more on on Shila's uh you know remarks. Um I will say this that this this process is is easier than the process when I got elected that uh when you when you go through a campaign it's pretty you think this is nerve-wracking. I completely agree.

That one's uh you you figure out question uh let's see here question three really quickly on how to respond to people. So uh I think I think of course they're both quality candidates. You know they both love their community. They want to see good things happen. They want they they both understand growth is going to happen in Lebanon, which is a big a big thing. It's uh I have a lot of people in the community that they want to stay, you know, a city of 9,000. That's just that's really not the reality of of Lebanon. Lebanon is going to grow and it's how we manage that growth as a as a council and city and staff. So, um I'm not the one making the motion. Um however, I think it was I will echo what was said earlier. I I think all three of you you said it. We're not going to lose on whoever we choose. Um I think it comes down to those those couple little things. Um uh the uh you know, how to improve property um you know, how do how do we manage property development with with land owners and property owners? And the other one was, you know, the the main issue I heard was the houseless community. So, it really it comes down to that in my opinion on who you choose or who you want to make a motion to choose. A lot of the other stuff was pretty pretty similar across the board. But, and I like it, like I said just a second ago, I'll say it again, they're both quality people. So, whatever whoever's chosen and gets voted in, I think we're going to be as a city, we'll be getting value and uh as a council and uh be able to move forward quite easily. So,

I think some of that too is is that both of these two have served on the planning commission and I know many other counselors have also kind of had that similar route and interviewed for these same positions. Um, so again, as Ken said, we're getting um an excellent fellow counselor uh for the remainder of this this term, no matter who is chosen. Um, I am ready to put forth a motion and see what happens. if unless we're going to continue having more conversation.

I I quickly did a tally because I I was trying to figure out a way for me to break the tie in my mind and I I went through their questions and I I I was as you guys were discussing I I scored and

um I liked u Marc on to answer question one the three most important concerns. I really liked Marcelus's answer. He I think his um concerns directly align with my personal concerns. We're prepar preparing for future growth. Uh maintaining the core city functions. He mentioned public safety which is very high on not only my list. I think our city council we all feel pretty highly about public safety. And he also mentioned financial stewardship which I think uh Shiloh mentioned that one as well. Um, and that's that's one of the biggest parts of what we do is is is th those three things. Um, so I gave him a point on question one. Question two, I also gave him Marcelus um on opportunity for redevelopment. Thought he was a little more specific and he had some um interesting ideas that that actually would be could be brought up in further discussion. Question three I gave to Shila. Uh I think her answer as far as how you deal with people uh who are unhappy with your ideas or you made unpopular decisions. I think she had a pretty valid um response to that and it actually is works in the real world what she was discussing. I also gave question four to Shila. Uh what do you see as key elements of a pro productive relationship between the mayor, city manager and council? Those questions um or the answers are pretty close. I think she expounded on a little bit better. And then question five, I gave to Marcelus. Uh, if selected, what would be your top three priorities? Once again, I think his priorities align more with my personal priorities. Um, Shila does care a lot about the the homeless situation, which is it is a situation. I'm not going to discount that. But, uh, is question six isn't really a question. I have Marcelus three to Shila 2. And in my mind, that's the only way I can break the tie. Um, and that's

before you make a motion, I want to say so. Yep. And so that's where I'm at. I happen I I did the same thing. I put pluses and minuses. And although they're not the same, it's a three to two for Marcelis for me. Okay. As we were talking and we went through, I actually went and I have four to one with Shila and one being William or is it Marcelis or is it William? I'm sorry. My legal first name is William. I go by Marcel. Okay. Thank you. Uh let's Julie, will you just before a motion's made just kind of talk of what the future holds for whoever gets selected and what they when they would be sworn in and all that kind of stuff if you would please.

So um they would be sworn in at the next council meeting which it' be the first meeting in February and they would um serve the remainder of the term which would end at the end of December. And then whoever's chosen would come to you and go through the process of any paperwork or anything like that. Correct. Okay. Y we would hope that that person the person who isn't chosen would be running the next time they wanted to be. I mean you're still elated. Well, yeah. Yeah. I would highly encourage that.

Whoever is chosen would have to run again in November um to remain in that position. Well, understanding where my point spread is and others are, I will not make the motion. Then is there is there a motion for either candidate? I move to appoint William Marcellis Paul, excuse me, William Marcellis Paul Engleford to be sworn in on February 11th, 2026 to fill the remaining term of council man, which expires on December 31st, 2026. I will second that.

Motion's been made to appoint Marcellus Angel Ford to the council vacant council position. It's been second. All in favor? I I. All opposed. Congratulations. Congratulations. And thank you so much. Congratulations. Thank you. And don't don't take it as a bad thing. You did really well and we thank you for coming in. We really did. I interviewed and I was terrible at it and then I had to get elected. So, come back and try to get elected. But I but but I will say this, I have a feeling you'll have a a person running against you in November. Are you anyhow

I want to say thank you for for going through this and uh I honestly I would love to work with you on city council uh as I would am going to with Marcelus. So, I don't want this to feel like your dreams are dashed or this dampers your spirit for getting continuing to remain involved because I honestly would love to work with either one of you up here. I'm I'm on the planning commission. I I'm doing my second term there. I'm content. So, I'm I'm still serving my community. So, that's I'm good. Thank you so much though for all of your time. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you. Well, as as someone who was on the planning commission for many years, um, and now on the city council, uh, I do recommend the city council position just because it's it's more dynamic. As you know, the planning commission is very black and white and, uh, I I do appreciate your um, just your commitment to involvement in your community. There's not many people in Lebanon that are willing to do what what you two did today, and I I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you. The toughest meetings I think right there.

We'll move on to the next item on our uh regular session agenda is direction to proceed with municipal jail and local option levy process. City manager.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the city council. So, we've put together a PowerPoint uh to kind of go through the process of what it would look like to uh get to a levy. Um, with that given a little more background, a lot of this you've probably heard already, but I think it's important that we continue to uh kind of give the reasons why what the uh what some of the major aspects of the jail would include. So, uh, with that, we're going to start through it. Um, there's going to be myself, Sean, Frank, Brandon, and Julie will all um, jump into the PowerPoint at various places. The hope is to have more of a discussion instead of a read to you PowerPoint uh and give you the facts and and give you some hopefully at the end of this we can get some direction on where we want to go. So with that um Frank I think you're you're starting it out. I'm kicking this party.

You're starting the party.

All right. There we go. So, uh, you know, just a real brief history for you guys, and I'm sure you you guys are all wellversed on kind of I've been we've been all talking about this for some time now, but we opened the jail uh back in 2009, and the goal behind that was to hold local offenders accountable uh for misdemeanor level crimes that were committed within the city of Lebanon and obviously to provide for a safer community. Uh since the opening um we have yet to staff the jail properly um with correctional uh correction officers and the primary um this always fell upon patrol officers which limited you know the resources uh out on patrol and increased their workload and also overall increased liability. Um we closed in uh 2023. We all remember uh that uh that was a difficult decision to make but a decision that was needed nonetheless. And since that time um patrol and when we are running into individuals who have committed crimes within Lebanon, they get a a citation to appear in court. Uh so there's really no uh accountability piece. There's no teeth to the to the bite at this particular point in time. So that's kind of the brief history. Uh you guys have any questions on that? Frank, what's the I know and this might be premature question. It's going to cost us X to run the jail to have the jail open. Does it minimize any of the street officers we'd need? Is there any impact to that at all? Like if we had a jail that was operational and and could house people, would we be able to have one less officer or

just just mathematically? No, I mean we'd keep the same amount. The the I think kind of where you're going to is we would have focused individuals inside the facility to take care of the individuals who are being um housed there at the jail. So it wouldn't be the responsibility of patrol anymore. So no, I get that. I'm just saying that how would it save time on the the officers on the street that have to keep going after that same guy like the guy who put the stuff in my tree. Absolutely. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry for not understanding but yeah absolutely. So you know instead of dealing with the same individual time and time and time again it would be going out getting and housing.

Yeah. That's what I'm getting at just to see what the what the math kind of looked on that. Thank Yeah, I I I don't think it would reduce our police force in any way, shape, or form. Um I think if they're not out doing that, then they're doing a proactive police. No, maybe I used the wrong I'm not talking about a body or Okay. I'm talking about how effective the police could be if they didn't have to deal with it would create more efficiency clearly with uh you know with having the jail open and Yeah, thanks. That's the word I was searching. Was that I didn't hear I didn't hear what you said there. and more deterrent. Yes. Yes. You don't have much deterrent, right? Yes. That's a big one for me. So, thanks, Frank. You're welcome.

Uh, obviously the key liabilities you guys have heard me talk about. Um, many times over. In order for us to operate the jail, we have to be in compliance with Oregon law and the mandates that they placed upon us. and and that requires um all the things that are listed within the RS's that are listed and it requires funding and it requires personnel to legally um get to the point where we're we're uh complying with that and one of the main reasons in 2023 why we closed we were not complying.

Gotcha. Were we sorry were we not comp which ones were we not compliant in I mean I don't need like an exact breakdown but like all staffing training um medical mental health care um religious accommodations I mean we had that in place but not to the standards that were uh what it needs to be.

Okay. Just was curious. Thank you. So, if this council decides to move forward with a local option levy, uh, one of the one of the main things that needs to be, I guess, understood is that this is a councilled charge. That that means that as staff, uh, we can put out facts, but we can't champion the levy, right? So, uh, under Oregon law, uh, communications regarding ballot measures, um, from staff must remain strictly factual. So, that means we can't be really involved in in say the council wanted to hold town hall meetings or things of that nature. You're going to be uh, having to do that yourself. That's not to say that we can't be there, set things up and and and whatnot, but we have to be very cautious about how we do that and how we move forward on that. Uh so council is going to be the lead advocacy for this and that you could have a pack a pack could be formed um to do that. Um so it's just knowing that going in. Um now from a staff perspective we if we do move forward we're going to go all in and we're going to move this thing at 100%. Right. And same thing that expectation would be from our council as well. uh that council has that same if if it's voted on to move forward that that same uh inspiration is there uh because we don't want to do this half-heartedly. Uh there's political ramifications to this and and you want to make sure that we're uh using that political will uh responsibly and that we are moving it forward in that way. Um, so with that, uh, I just want to make sure that that's

really clear before we go any further, uh, with that. Is there any questions about what that looks like? Operationally speaking, because I'm on the same term as our new counselor, if say I don't win my election in November, what happens to my involvement? I want I made no secret that I want to lead this if I can. I want to do anything I can to make this happen. It's something I I'm passionate about, if if anything. But what happens if I don't win in November? Can I still be involved in this? I I guess it depends on when you Sure. As a private citizen, absolutely. You could be on a pack. You could I mean, nobody's going to not vote for me, right? Understood. Understood. But yeah, I mean, anything's possible. Just have to get rid of the city councilor after your name on anything.

Exactly. Exactly.

I was just curious. the the Ron and I have talked about this multiple times and I have two concerns. Okay. Uh the one concern I brought up at at work session where where I talked about, you know, the how how this might affect other strategic moves that we're thinking about doing in the future. Okay, that's one. So, we need to be be very clear-minded on on how this affects other times where we might be seeking funding. Okay. Um, first, let me let me step back for a second. I'm all for opening a jail. I am. I think it's an important part of our community. Um, in the there's two two component two components to law enforcement. There's the enforcement part and then the accountability part. And right now, we're only kind of doing one side of that. Okay. So, I'm all for it. However, that's very important for me to think, okay, where's this put us in 5 10 years down the road on some of this these other priorities that city is, you know, needing. So, that's that's the one concern I have. The other concern I I or I don't know if it's a concern more, but I I'll just say it. If this moves forward, the council and maybe that's why this is the this slide is here. the council needs to take the lead on it. And I'm glad that Dave, you said that you would you would uh do that. Um because one thing we can't do on something like this is go, "Hey, we're going to do this." And then everybody steps back and and look at staff to go, "Oh, well, why isn't it happening?" No, that's not the case in this this needs to be councilled. It needs to be uh championed by council. I think there's probably two or three maybe the whole council that would champion this. Um, and it's a very important part of getting this through. And if we're not willing to do that, we

should not put any motion forward saying, "Oh, yeah, let's let's do this."

That that that was my two concerns with this whole discussion. So, um, if if if everybody has thought through those two things and they're willing to make that commitment, um, you know, and and you know, to voice your or to answer your concern, uh, if you didn't win, it's it's, you know, you still got it through. Okay. So, um, if it passed, okay, this would be in November. I I think you're probably going to go through a timeline, aren't you? Okay. Okay. But, uh, those are my two concerns. Just make, you know, I would I would hope that you would take those into account in your thought process and really think those things through um before making a motion. So,

I also want to kind of drive this slide home too um partially because yes, it does need to be councilled and someone touched on the political piece of it and the political risk. Um, our positions are inherently political. Um, I mean, the voters cast a vote for us to sit here and make these decisions and they don't do that for people like our police chief and for our city manager and so or our finance director. Um, so it's really just important for us to again have that lead and because we want to make sure that people like the chief or the city manager or the financer or whoever that I mean they're there and they're doing great work and and we want them to be able to continue to do that work without the political piece. That's what we do here.

I get that. I'm I'm going to tread lightly on this. We pointed out to the because we do have future we have future concerns. There's a water there's all kinds of things to worry about. One of the things we pointed out to our candidates is that the schools and the fire isn't I don't think we as a council and I know there's there's crossover and we can't we can't worry about the school bonds or the fire bonds. This is a city issue. Does that make sense? Am I I agree. I I agree 100%. I just know that's a thing to consider there. There's money that's going to have to be spent and this is a city issue.

Make that clear. My um question on this and I also am full support of opening the jail. What what uh other than council support which I will openly support opening the jail, what is a councilled charge look like? Like what are we talking about? Well, you so as we get further down the slides and Sean, you can step into this too, but but as as we get further down in the slides, you're going to see where we're going to recommend that you use a consultant to do a lot of the messaging and that type of stuff. So, it's going to include actual messaging. Yes, absolutely.

And it's going to include polling. It's going to include uh do you want to do um town halls, you know, um and and those types of things. And that's where you've got to figure out ways that you want to get your message out. Again, we can we can set that be here to set the town hall up, but when you guys are speaking and it gets there's a fine line there and Julie, you'll have to to help me with that, but we can't use any city resources for your messaging, right? we can use a consultant to help get the factual messages out and to pull this thing. But past that, am I what what I'm sorry

what I've seen in the past and you tell me tell me if this is out of bounds is that usually staff walks through like what we just had happen, right? Um this is when the the history when this is when the jail opened, this is when it was closed. It's all the facts and then somebody else, the mayor, uh, councelor Workman, somebody else comes with the the levy information and takes that portion away, takes the presentation from there on and does the answering of the questions that are, you know, about the levy quite honestly. Yeah. in your mic. Turn your mic on. Trey, the city and the uh and staff can provide basically neutral non-advocating uh uh independent information as they would on any

similar to what we're doing right now, right?

And you know, it's no different than a campaign for one of you if you were running for city council. I mean, you can't, you know, city count city uh uh the city can't take a position on any of your elections. uh but they'll provide you or provide the the community information that's f of a factual and non-biased nature that doesn't try to sway a vote in in any way other than you have to be able to justify and back up the numbers the facts and all that kind of stuff. Um, so basically you should look at it as ba as running a campaign. You know, instead of a instead of uh John Doe getting up and running for election, you now have, you know, uh, uh, measure X and you set up a you set up a committee. You set up, you know, uh, you get a you get a finance committee, you get, uh, you know, hey, who's in charge of the signs and you do, you know, you run the whole campaign and the only difference is you're you're running a campaign for a measure as opposed to an individual.

All right. All right, we'll have quite a few more questions, but I think I'll let you get through the slides because they might they might answer them. Okay, we're riding we're we're overriding the slide here. That's all right, Brandon. Uh if you want to take the uh financial piece. Sure do.

So, what we have what staff has determined is in order to operate this in a manner that meets RS uh meets the requirements of our insurance provider uh over a 5year life of a potential levy. At the end of that five years, we would need $1.7 million. Um, and you can see on the screen there the the necessary components of that, right? It's a 247 operation. We would need six corrections officers and a supervisor. You are required to have a medical staff. Uh, the the liability insurance. All of that is listed there with the dollar amounts. Um, what that amounts to is about a dollar per thousand for a potential lab fee amount. um that generates you that $1.7 million at the end of that five years. Um things to consider with that is there will be some level of compression. Uh and for those who don't under who don't know what that is, uh measures five and 50 in the state of Oregon limit property taxes to a specific amount based on your classification, general government or education. We're under the general government limit, which means that overall across all taxing districts, there can only be $10 per thousand in taxes assessed on a real market value of a property. And then there's a whole calculation that goes into, you know, how they calculate whether you are at or above that limit. Anything above that limit is then considered compressed. And so levies, these kind of special election items, uh, are compressed first and then if you have to, you get down to the bottom line and you still need more, then the the permanent taxing rates, right? Our our general tax that we that we apply every year would then further be compressed. Um, so with that said, currently the county has one local option levy out there right now for general government entities. Uh, this would this would create a second for this area. um and potentially increase

what you see in compression, which is why you need a dollar per thousand. The average cost for a homeowner based on a $385,000 home uh is about $385 a year. Um currently, we do have a general obligation bond on the books. Uh that bond, the last payment is scheduled for fiscal year 2027. Uh so taxpayers will see that applied to their tax bill November 2026. Uh and then it will cease after that. Um so um that amount uh you would see a savings of about $102 a year. Um if this were to potentially replace that general obligation bond. So, you're saying that that general obligation bond now for the average home is costing about $489 a year?

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Don't mind me. I'm just rushing to pull my tax statements. Super simplistic question, but how much we're still paying for the jail. How much how much do we still owe on the jail building that's sitting there? And I know that's probably not how to ask that question, but uh the remaining amounts for this year and next year is I have it right here in front of me. Three basically $3.5 million and that was for the library and the justice center. Okay. Um so only a portion of that obviously is is for the justice center and the the square footage of the jail. Um but we have two payments left. One fiscal one this fiscal year, one next fiscal year and then we're done. Okay. Thank you.

Which if you can believe means that we've had these buildings for long time about 20 years.

Um initially the the levy amount uh we would not need the full dollar. Um so what we did is scaled this so that we could potentially set a levy at an amount that we would need within that five years and then you can under levy right based on what the actual expenditures are in the the beginning years. Um, so we would have to kind of tool that to to set up what you're looking for in that 5year span. Make sure that it would accommodate all of the expenditures within that 5-year period. Um, because what we don't want to do necessarily is set a levy amount that prices us out after the first year or two because once it's set, it is set for that five years and you cannot change it. Um, so we don't the dollar means that you have some flexibility in where you start to where you end. Gotcha.

What other bond measures? My my property tax statement is full of bond measures. What other bonds are expiring in the next one to three four years? Uh that is a question I don't have a full answer to. I can tell you that um like the school district has has an existing bond uh general obligation bond three that expires in 2030. 2030. Okay.

Um the LBCC has an existing bond measure. I don't know what the the termination is on that. Um the fire district has the uh the new station 31 31. Um that one's going to go for a while, right? uh that one just started and it was a 30-year I believe. Um so you are probably looking at well into the late 2040s early 2050s before that expires. Um so those that's at least the existing bond measures that are out there that I know of. I know the school is a big one. Um but I kind of predict that they'll also be trying to reup something similar but it's possible.

Just wondering like what the you know change in property taxes will be in the next five years. Yeah. I think that's helpful that our ours is expiring 2027 and it actually you can sell people on that your taxes will actually go down $100 a year if even if

um the other thing to note, you know, certainly is that the county just went out for their bond, their renewal of their local option levy this last um November cycle. They did ask for an increase uh from the $2.98 that they had previously to $38 per thousand and they did get that. Um so that plays a role into how much our rate would have to be set at. Um what we have seen in other cities is when the city and the the corresponding county kind of start fighting for similar funding right to within that $10 per thousand measure five limit. You start to get this kind of battle back and forth where you know okay well my compression took a hit because of this new levy. So now I need to ask for a little bit more and then their a little bit more means that we see a a the city sees a drop in what they get. So, you kind of have to consider the the implications of of other option levies out there and make sure that yours is set in a manner that you get the funding you need and take into consideration, you know, what the housing market is doing, right? So, if real market value does start to decline, um that will increase the amount that our levy would potentially be compressed and therefore we would see less money coming in as a result. So, it's a it's a pretty fine line and you have to be very careful about where you set yours to not do, you know, either too much damage one way or have a bunch of funding on the other side.

But the dollar is pretty conservative in viewing. The dollar per thousand gets us where I think we need to be. We've run the um we got property tax information from the county for all taxable entities within the state in the city. um ran out, you know, five years, what that looks like, where where we think real market value will go. Um we used relatively conservative estimates on that in that regard. Um and made sure that that there was enough there to finish what we needed. It's a it would be a five-year levy, right? Right. Correct. Did you mention what the city bond per cost per thousand is currently? It's about a$130 per thousand. Okay.

Um is what we collect right now. We collect about $2 million a year um to make the the geo bond payments. Okay.

Excuse me. Julie, you want to take the next one?

Yep. So, I have um a timeline that would um be for either the November 3rd, 2026 election or the May 18th, 2027. Um, and I'm just going to hit three key dates for both of those elections. Um, to have the ballot title to um, my office for either election, the deadlines would be August 14th for the November or February for the May, which would mean we would have to have that ballot title approved by council by the July meeting. Um, so coming up quickly in July, uh, versus or or the January 13th meeting of 2027, um, the last day to have those to the county would be September 3rd for the November election or March 18th for the May election. And then uh, ballots would be mailed out midocctober for the 2026 or um, midappril for the 2027. I'm sorry, Julie. Could you give me the first date you gave for each of those?

So, for the November election, it would need to be at the city council for approval by July 8th to the city office by August 14th, and then to the county office by September 3rd. For the May 18th election, you would be looking at a January 13th council meeting, a February uh 26 deadline for the city, and then a March 18th deadline for the county. Um I did want to add that uh there is an OS that for any election outside of an even election year. So for the May 2027, the cost of the election will be borne by the city. I did reach out to the county to see um what that might look like. Um and unfortunately the county told me there's just too many variables that they're not even going to try to give me an estimate. So, um, those include, uh, the number of voters, the amount of, um, uh, ballots that they send out, postage, staff, those kind of things. Um, so I did reach out to some other cities and I did hear back from McMinnville. Um, they have a population of 34,000, so it's it's higher than ours. Um, but the bill they got from Yamhill County for a special elections was 125,000. Yeah.

Um they were able to split that with AMD because AMD also had something on the ballot. So their cost was uh just under 62,000. So if the council did choose to move forward and had um wanted to do the May election, I estimate that it could be anywhere from 50 to just over a h 100,000 in election cost.

Gotcha. I would I don't know how many feels. I I think that this needs to be on on the November ballot if we can do it. Maybe timing wise that doesn't make sense. I think that gets it in front of more people and I wouldn't I wouldn't push for it to be a special election because really I I know everybody knows my personal feelings about this, but we are trying to do what the city wants. We will I we will have town halls. We will we will sell it to the best of our ability, but if Lebanon doesn't think it's important, and I get it, I'm not right about everything. So, I feel like a November election is a better place to have it than a special election. Not just because of the cost, just because more people are likely to give their opinion. And that that might not benefit my side of the ledger there, but that's how I feel.

Julie, is there still a turnout requirement for a special election? At one point, you had to have 50% turnout in order for it to count. I think there is. I don't have that number, but I'll I'll see if I can find it because I think if that if that's still the case, then that'd be another strike against going out in May. And obviously, um it being a midterm 2026, you are going to get more people involved and actually filling out their ballots. Yeah. So, I I would push for November if it's a possibility.

I just want to be the one cautionary person in this. I do agree it has to be November now after hearing the cost for May. But like as a reminder, there are three council there will be three counselors and a and the mayor up on that same election ballot. And the final the last day for us to make this decision to put it on the ballot is July 8th. Um which is during the time that people can file for those positions. And while I very much I really truly do welcome all of that, I don't want to I I would really hate for this to be a flash point for people like to run like that was there like to run against the jail. That would just really be unfortunate. So that's just in the back of my mind thinking about timing. I I don't love that, but I also don't want to spend the amount of money on a on a May election. That's bananas. So

if that's a flash point for people, we're looking for flash points. Like I said, we're trying to serve the people. If the people don't want this and we're just the ones who do, I get it. But sure, but some of that will also I assume at some point we're going to talk about polling. And I mean, if the polls come back that like it did for other entities that only 38% would vote for something, then are we still going to carry it forward and spend money? But I assume at some point we're going to talk about polling and consultants and etc. in one of these slides. So we are. Okay. And as long as as long as it's less than the May putting it on the May thing, we're good. Yeah. And the cost of whatever that is too is also important to me. So, as I'm sure it is for others. Absolutely.

Is there any other questions on that that slide? The time frame. Okay. Uh we can move on to the next one. Sean's going to start in on this and I'll weigh in where we're where I think I need to. Hey, look. It's the next slide. Tada.

Yeah. So, um, let's talk a little bit about the campaign and the role of a consultant in the campaign. If if, um, you're going to do an effort like this, it really should be done with the utmost professionalism using the best resources available, i.e. a campaign consultant, which is different than what I do as a lobbyist. One of us works on the policy side and one of them works on the political side, right? And that's what a campaign consultant does is they help people win elections, right? Um you can kind of take the process and break it down into into two chunks instead of the three that are up there. But the the first one that's the most important is the viability and readiness assessment. And this is where your initial polling comes in. Right? So, let's say we've hired our consultant. Their first order of business is to is to sit down with us and write questions to help determine what the community thinks of the idea that we have. Okay? And that'll go out as a poll. Really well thoughtout questions help determine whether somebody likes it or under what circumstances somebody might like something or under what circumstances somebody might not like something. So you have an opportunity in polling to answer to ask the questions that help you advance the answers to which help you advance your cause. You may to counselor Steinne's point get some results back from the polling that suggests that it's not the most popular thing in the world. Right? And that is an inflection point. That is the go or nogo discussion that you have to have. Couple of things to think about. Advertising, as much as I love it, does not make a good or bad product good. And in this case, you can't market your way out of

something necessarily that the community doesn't want, right? That's what the consultant's job is, is to help you figure out what people want and then forge the path. If there's an available path to get there, that should start ASAP. You need to know the answers to those questions. Get to your go or no go point. Make your decision. Then the campaign starts to form based on the information that you get from your grassroots efforts, your grasstops efforts, your polling. That's when your consultant comes, excuse me, comes in and does what the consultant does, which is if if we're here and people think this and we want to get to here, how do we do all that? Further to your question about what does it look like if if council you know council's involvement in this is much depends on the outcome of the polling and the suggestions that the consultant will make the town halls the phone town halls the this that and the other thing the mailers all all of those things hard question to answer but you would be involved in every one of those things as as council my role and I've discussed with Ron um would be to be the um the input point from the consultant to the city and to the council. So I'll work directly with the consultant to get certain things done whatever I am asked to do by that consultant as it as it works out. um and then give weekly updates and reports to um city manager and the mayor and council and let everybody know what's happening um operationally from the within the campaign.

Is it safe to say you have those resources? Safe to say.

I thought so. Pointed it on the record. I do think the one important piece to note with this consultant, right, is the city bringing on the consultant means they can do the polling and they can do kind of that factf finding for us. Anything beyond that is that neutral communication, right? So those town halls if or telephone town halls if the consultant is putting that together with city funds behind it, that is a very neutral thing that they are putting out there, right? um anything either yes or no and anybody pursuing one of those paths would have to come from something outside of the organization because our our mission has to be that very fine middle line.

So it's at least an option if we found an a pack and all that if we found funding outside of the city that would help us to do this that's okay right? If you as an individual and through a pack are putting together communications, then yes, you can do what you are looking to do. Okay. Well, that's so I just wasn't sure. Fresh territory for me. Did I leave anything out? No, I don't think so. I I think it's just it you can see where a consultant's going to have to come into this and help us. I mean, uh, to guide this and then like Sean said, he's going to he's going to kind of play middleman on this and and help us out, uh, help walk us through that. So, cost.

Yeah. Who? You're you're looking at about $50,000. That does that include the polling or not? Yes, that included the polling in the in the We're still waiting on one uh proposal. We've got two. So, 50,000 uh that covers the polling and the messaging and helping with the ballot title writing. Um, and then pass that. Um probably developing some town halls and and things of that nature. I think I I don't have that proposal in front of me. So like through through the through November. Yes. And no extension into May 27 if future council that would be a new negotiated

that would be a new negotiated contract. So this is whether you win in May or whether you win in November. It's it's for one election cycle that that would as if you chose to poll it would add that as well. What about the polling comes back and 19% support and we just like well we're we're not moving forward with this. We're going to try and come up with something else. Is it still 50,000? No, there's there's a jump off point in this in the way it's broken down and I think the polling itself was 75 was the estimate. Yeah, 7,500 I think.

7,500. And polling is based on a few different things, right? The number of questions you ask, right? Because somebody's got to draft the questions and do all that work. And the number of individuals that you do outreach to and the method that you use. If it's a phone poll, if it's a texting poll, if it's however it however it might work, there's different costs associated with that. But they figured for our population, an appropriate sample size and time would would equal about 7,500 bucks. And if we said yes today, when is that poll going out? Oh, as soon as it could. A week, two weeks. Are we It's probably a It's probably a month would be my guess before you could get it written and ready.

I think the first thing we'd want to do is bring the consultant in to talk to the council, right? Yes. And have have that consultant here to guide you through that a little bit more so than what we're doing right now. That's not our skill set. So, you we'd bring them in for you to ask questions for them to start that process. Um, but you can see I mean we have two council meetings a month and if we have to have we've got to have a no go or go no go or go I'm not sure how that works but somewhere on that one of those two things an up or a down uh once you've got your polling and and

then you will know. Yeah. But I think if you're pulling, like you said, if you're if you're down in there in the 30 plus% range, I mean, I can't imagine that any of us are going to say, "Yes, we should move forward." Those are very difficult numbers to flip. Yeah. I think just for calendar sake, right, if you assume that the consultant could come in at at your February meeting, have at least that initial conversation, what does this look like? How am I going to help?

Yeah. you know, bring back questions for maybe a February work session or something that that you can help craft with them. Um, complete said poll, then you're probably looking at results for that poll in either late March, early April or your April council meeting basically, right? Um, and then making a decision at that point as to, you know, what do the results look like? What does the council want to do? Um, and making kind of that final determination of whether or not we're we keep going. Mhm.

So, so it gives you very little time if you think about those time frames to have your your town halls and and and getting all this started. It's going to be fullcourt press to to move that forward. Well, I think not to use a compression because I don't really understand the compressed effort is probably better than a spread out one anyway because we're going to we're going to find out we're going to get a drop dead point said this makes sense. 60 people say yes, then we're going to know how to But if 20 say no, then 20 20% say yes, then we'll bail out. Yeah, we would need what? 56% to come back in our favor because it's plus five, right? I assume. I think it's plus five. Yeah.

So, anything under honest anything in the 40s, I wouldn't even go. It's tough. I mean, that's the the question for the consultant. Sure. Yeah. Right. and and they they they they will answer that by looking at the answers to the questions that we that we got.

You know, one of the great opportunities that you have as a council is do you like this idea? Right? One of the questions if you don't like this idea, under what circumstances might you like this idea, right? And there's a lot of really good information and questions like that about how to move a policy idea forward. But to councelor Steinhill's point, it's a tough flip when when you start talking about, you know, I've got to move 10% of the population in my favor towards this. That's a that's a difficult

well and they use like a like a Liyker scale basically, right? So some people will be no matter what, right? And so when you take out say another entity, 24% of uh the people already that you're polling say there's no way we would ever pass this. you're now working with a smaller percentage that you're trying to get to 56 with. So, I would be really interested in some of these numbers coming back before we put it any put anything on a ballot. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'd absolutely have to. I'm I'm I'm for I'm no surprise. I'm from moving forward just as fast as we can. Great. Okay. Thank you. Any questions for me? Thank you. I think so.

Well, good. Now to the last slide. The most important, I guess. Um some council direction. It sounds like sounds like you want to shoot for the November 20 26 meeting. Um election election.

Can I can I uh I'm I'm going to throw a wrench in this in the timeline slightly. Okay. Going back to the councilled slide, whoever's in charge of the slides. Um I really do think we don't have a full council. We're down three. We have half of the members that can actually typically vote unless there's a tie um here today. Um, I don't expect staff to do this presentation a second time. I do expect our new counselor and the two others that aren't here today um to be able to review this and come ready in February to make that vote. Um, I would like to table a vote. I am in favor of putting it on the ballot too in November. But I I think it's important to have a full council to make that that um that happen, especially understanding we need every single one of us to do the work to get this passed. So

to what end delaying the vote, it shows that all of council is on board as this is a councilled charge. I'm not trying I'm to delay the vote, table it basically till the February meeting. Doesn't that move back us bringing somebody in at the February meeting? It would move to the February noon session meeting. Could we

uh Yeah, we could we could bring a consultant in in at the uh and I think that's probably what we would have done. Likewise, I mean, there may have been an introduction at the uh February 11th. I think it's the 11th meeting. Yes. Uh but the the work session itself we want to try to do I I don't think we've got time to prepare for that one. We don't even have contract with anybody yet. So I'm I'm not We have a consultant already. Do we have three bids and everything? We're waiting on the third bid. So we actually don't have a consultant yet. We don't have So we could wait until the February meeting. I don't uh I get it, but I don't I'm not a mind readader, but I think the temperature of the council I think I know where they're going to land. I know that doesn't mean anything, but

I agree. But I also want everybody's skin in the game and a vote and their vote on record. That would be my suggestion. I was just gonna say you just said an important word on the record or important couple words. Um I think that's what what she's getting at is it would be on the record. I don't want to lose the momentum of it. I don't if it if that gives us three three less weeks or four less weeks to do what we need to do, then I don't I don't I I understand your concern, but if we don't even have a an actual consultant with a contract yet, I don't see the problem tableing it until February. Well, I mean, we can move forward with all that stuff without voting on anything today, right?

Yeah. And we we will we will have so we will have a recommendation for a consultant. What we will need from this body is basically in in the staff report um you know should council move forward are you do you are you willing to engage in a local consult or a consultant and are you ready to begin the option levy and obviously it sounds like we'd be November at least from the three of you that are here today. Um so yeah that's that we can move forward in getting that uh and the only thing we need to know from from you guys since this is will be out of our contingencies. I have the ability to sign that contract but we want to make sure that you understand that the the consultant costs will be coming out of the contingencies at least what's done through this fiscal year and we can budget whatever is remaining for the next fiscal year from July 1 to November. But yes, it is it is possible. Uh not I don't know that it changes our time frame too much since the February 11th is just right around the corner tomorrow weeks.

I don't I don't I don't think it changes. Yeah, I'm not comfort I'm not uncomfortable with the changing the vote against me. I'm not trying to push things too fast. I'm just trying to start what I feel like is an inevitable process. All we'd have to do is bring back this uh staff report and there's no work on our part if uh right up your alley. Yes, exactly. No work on our It actually wouldn't Would it hurt us to have a consultant at the February 11th meeting or is that even possible even if the other counselors haven't decided whether maybe don't have a consultant, do we? I think

I want I want a motion from y'all that this is 100% where we're going. We're going to spend $50,000 worth of contingency on a consultant. And before I drag some a consultant into this, I mean, we could bring him here and just say, "Hey, you know, we're waiting on uh let me think about that and see if that's worth it." But I don't know that we're going to get any value out of that meeting. I think it's going to be better served in a work session at the end of the month where we can really dive into, hey, what what do we want the polling questions to be? Um, and she can give you more of an indepth rather than try to do that in a fivem minute presentation at the council meeting on the 11th. Okay. That would be February 25th, noon or 2nd. Sorry.

What did I do? You did. You did nothing. I did. Okay. So So I I what what I'm hearing is the council does want to move forward, but we would like it on the record and all counselors present. Um was there any other questions or comments up to this point? Um

thank you for getting to this point. I do think for the other counselors and for myself, um, it obviously I think the all the counselors want the jail open. I don't speak for everyone, but I know the three of us definitely want the jail open. Then you put a number behind it that's $385 a year for the average home. So I'm looking as a taxpayer, I'm probably $400 to $500 a year. So I uh would be helpful for the chief next um meeting with the other counselors if you can come and sell me on that. I'm getting that value out as far as making the community more livable and public safety. I um I want to I want to be able to sell it to the community and I think

it's it's easy to sell if it's $60 a year, but now you're talking this is $500 a year for for me, I'm guessing. And uh it's got to stay factual though, I think. So that's the issue there. You statistics. Um to to sell me on the levy, can the chief I think the chief say this is what this is what we anticipate.

I think the biggest problem is these are recorded meetings, right? And so suddenly you start to get into then we are clearly having a discussion about whether we're moving a levy forward and that could be perceived as us trying to move the needle to yes. Well, I don't know what kind of data you have, Chief, but if there's a there's got to be logs. This is the how many hours we spend with this one person repeatedly or this group of 20 people repeatedly. There's got to be some math in there somewhere. I'm not asking for made up stuff. I'm just talking like what kind of numbers or support can we give that's factual that this is actually going to help this situation?

We we could go back to do statistics when the jail was open versus what it is now and do a percentage and we can give you those as factual information. And what we can't do is I mean we can try and sell this council on the jail. What we can't do since we're talking about a levy that that ship sailed. I mean we we can't sell that now. We've given you the option of how to get there

uh with the data that we're we've presented previously. Um but we can give you the statistics right? I mean you've got any other ideas there on that? No, I I mean I can certainly provide statistics. I think uh in the last presentation I did, I gave you some of those stat uh stat statistics. Um I think the you know, one of the most important things is go visit the courts too while you're at it and see what they're up against and what the judge is up against and what the city attorneys are up against. And then secondly, go out on a ride along

and go experience it firsthand. I'm more than happy to oblige. You know, anyone of you guys that wish to go out and see firsthand what it is that we're out there dealing with and the frustrations and things of that nature, you can see it firsthand and experience it that way. Um, I can give you all kinds of numbers and statistics, but until you see it and feel it and really experience it firsthand and and watch and see what it's like on a court day, um, then you under I think you have a lot better understanding of what it is that we're trying to accomplish here. Yeah, the court piece is a big piece of it. I

It's one of the hugest pieces right now, right? Is is you have individuals that are coming to court and what is the judge to do with them? And you know, you continue that cycle on what are you going to end up with? You're going to end up with individuals out there who already know I can pretty much do whatever I want to do when I want to do it, however I want to do it, and I'll get a piece of paper and a stern talking to. I mean, that's not justice.

No. and and and you know, the chief can can answer the question of, well, if if the uh if if the voters of Lebanon see fit to pass this levy and we're able to open the open the jail up, this is how it helps my officers. I mean, how many of you guys have seen, you know, Sheriff Duncan go out around the county talking about not necessarily trying to urge people to vote for it, but this is why it's so important, right? And so there's, you know, it's it's not like, you know, I mean, obviously anybody that's associated with with the court or the jail recognizes the importance of it towards, you know, uh making Lebanon safer. And we can make those comments. I mean, Frank's limited, I think, to um you know, this is why you should vote for it because we're going to make the community safer. No, but what he can say is it gives us more tools in our tool belt to be able to protect the citizens and do our job, you know. So, and yes, it can be a fine line at time and recognize as well that, you know, public employees, and again, I I know this is always a fine line, but they're not they can do whatever they want on their free time, and that includes salaried or or um you know, salaried employees or hourly employees, you know, and and now, if they're going to do that, I I'd like them to, you know, talk to me and we'll make sure that we we do it right, but you can't limit how how employees or salaried employees spend their free time. Um, so you know, you know, Ron, you know, Ron's, you know, he's even Ron could could do it. I'm not advocating that you do. You probably want to walk a finer line than that, but I'm saying technically under the line he could, right? Um, but there's a difference, too, as to what what they can do while they're actually on the job and in their public setting. And and it is factual for for Frank to say, "This is how I I believe it would give my officers a better the better ability to do their job." That's factual. Gotcha. And and just and by the way, I'm

not subject to the law, so I'm going to advocate the hell out of it.

Expansion on what on on what Trey was saying too, though, is, you know, there have been instances where the Secretary of State's office and the courts have defined that folks like Frank, I'm going to pick on Frank for a second, he is he is a face and somebody who has a 247 job realistically, right? He's not awake 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But if somebody decides to make that complaint or make that argument, that's something then that just the city has to fight potentially. So it's it's just a it is as Trey said, a very fine line. We just have to be cautious of that line. Uh because we certainly don't want to go through that and and have a a lawsuit on our hands.

That's why I said talk to me first. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we have any interest, any counselors here or not here of putting this staff in a uncomfortable place. This is on us. I mean, we'll take all the data and stats we can get to try to push it, but uh if we ask a question that we shouldn't, just tell us we shouldn't ask that. I'm pretty good at stepping back. Okay. I I would Thank you. I would just like to say this. If if uh there's no other questions or comments, if someone is going to make a motion to table, make sure that we give a time. So, we're you know, for instance, an example would be make a motion to table until February 11th regular council meeting, something like that.

Sure. Okay. Make sure that we have a timeline in there. Go ahead. So, so if you if you uh if someone if no one else has comments or or questions and it's ready time for a motion, please feel free. I would like to make a motion that we table this vote to put the jail levy on the ballot. Table it to the February 11th regular city council meeting. I second. Motion has been made to uh table this issue until the February 11th regular session. It's been second. All in favor? I. All opposed. Motion passes. It'll be moved to February 11th's agenda.

Can I ask one question? What what does this body want to see on the February 11th? I mean, you talked about statistics. I mean, are what what more do you want in terms of what we've provided in the work session and today? I guess I don't want anything else. I want every counselor. I want a roll call vote for every counselor. Honestly, correct. I there's two kind of two edges of that for me. First, we want anything you can give us consulting wise, we'll take that information. We're not going to vote on anything. We'll take any information we can listen to. But I think that

the second foot to having all the counselors is here is not only having them on that vote, but finding, hey, you got to be committed. You got to be here February 28th. Yes. Or 25th. and you got to be here regularly if you really are committed to this thing. So we we'll just bring back that the memo that's existing here and then you guys can have more discussion amongst yourself at that time uh with the with what we've talked about today. We'll make sure that the three that aren't here, Julie, if we could send them an email of the um YouTube link.

Thank you. That was a hard one for me to get out. Um, so yes, send them a YouTube link so that they can watch what transpired during the meeting uh and make sure that they're aware of what's going to happen. Actually, one more thing to councelor uh Workman's kind of point, like if we could just get like an uh you've put a lot of data already together for us. Can we just have that all in the packet in one spot? Like I guess the PowerPoint from today. I'm trying to think of some of the previous one any just anything and then it's all in one spot and we're not searching for previous report that the chief put together like yes that's a good one just in one spot in the packet and then it's easy to review. We could we could attach both PowerPoints that we that we did. You still got a copy of that PowerPoint, don't you

from first? Yeah, perfect. Yeah, yours had a lot of numbers in it I remember. So Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, definitely.

Okay, moving on. items from council. I'm I'm going to take this one first. Um because of because of the motion that we just had. Uh Ron and I were talking about this and Julie and I were talking about this. Um it would be helpful when councilors are going to be absent that they notify three people. The mayor, city manager, and the city recorder. Because right now we have a a system where they one person might call me but they don't call anybody else. Uh they might call Julie or they might call Ron. And we're trying to trying to deconlict all that and figure out if they're going to be here or not. So from now on I don't know if it needs to be put out in a memo or a policy. I I'm not sure.

Be good to be known because I've only tell you the truth. I've only told Julie when I knew it. I didn't push it any further. So So we'll put something out. But those are the three people we would like counselors to notify if you're going to be absent. Mayor, city recorder, and city manager. So, we're all on the same sheet of music singing the same song. So, is there anything else from items from council? Not for me. Okay. Uh, is there any press or public comments to be had? No. Okay. Okay, next scheduled council meeting will be