Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the July meeting of the Troy City Planning Board. If you could all stand for the pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one nation, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. First thing we're going to have to do is we're going to have to nominate a temporary chair for tonight's meeting as Peter's absent tonight. So, uh, we do that business.

I make a motion to nominate Jim Scully as, uh, acting chairman tonight. I second that. Motion carries. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Um should technically call should call approve vote. Okay. Uh so we do have a quorum. Right.

There's three for a quorum. Uh two absent. I think anybody who is uh here tonight could choose to uh move to when we have five or you have to live with whatever we come up with. if we our vote is binding. Um so that's what we're going to have to deal with. Um so we're going to take a roll call right now. Yes. Jim Shouvelt present. Jeff York present. Jim Scully present. So we have three for a quorum. Um all votes have

because the requirement is that um a majority of the membership of the board has to approve any action. Any approval tonight will have to be unanimous. Right? So that that is the for the public that's the risk. If it's not unanimous it's binding and you would have to start all over again. Um, so that's where we're at. Um, first thing we have, uh, some administrative items is to approve the minutes from the prior meeting. We need a motion to do that. I make I make a motion to approve minutes from uh, June's uh, planning board meeting.

I second. So motion's adopted. So you want to say all in favor? All in favor say I. I. I. I. Um, all right. Then our first item on the agenda uh Pete. Oh, so uh last last uh the minutes from last month. Yes, we already did that. I just did that. We do that. Yeah. All right. So, the first thing on the agenda is PLPC 20240059 84 Street. Jim, do you want to clarify the two items that have been removed since the draft agenda was posted, just in case anyone Sure.

was attending for that? So, we do have two items that are not have been pulled from the agenda. Uh, PLPC 2025002 and PLP 20250038 are not on tonight's agenda. Okay. Hello everyone. Good to see you again.

My name is Kyle Instrom with Emmy Studio Architects and um here regarding 84th Street. It's a currently it's a mixeduse building with uh one commercial space on the ground floor and uh existing three apartments. We are seeking approval to essentially convert to 12 units overall including the rear structure where the current carriage house is. Uh we'll keep the the commercial space on the ground floor and um it's it's a fairly you know largecale project. We in the last meeting there was some conversation regarding the area variance for the the square footage the average square footage for the rear structure independent structure. Um we have since been to the zoning board of appeals and they have granted us an area variance for that for that structure. And so I think we're here today sort of taking another look at it and uh hoping that we've sort of crossed our tees and dotted our eyes here.

So uh status of your meetings with the HRC. We also returned to the HRC to clarify any anything regarding that in particular that carriage house. Um showed them the extent of the demolition proposed and um they they were okay with it. We um the last order of business we had with them was just getting the sconces approved. Uh we've sent uh a proposed sconce over to Angie. I think that's the that's the last thing to um outstanding item with historic

um so the encroachment permit on William Street is there a status there? Yes sir. So, we have um submitted the application for the encroachment permit I believe today. I just received it. We sent that out and um again that we've reviewed that previously with the uh with the fire chief and um barring any setback um with the with the engineer, I think we should be okay there. Any other questions?

There was uh staff recommendation for DPW to sign off on flow calculations. Yes. So I I'd have to get an updated um an update on that. I know that uh the owner was working with J&J Plumbing to get that done. And to my knowledge, you know, he's they they they're wrapping up with that and and we're awaiting a a final sign off by DPU.

Yeah, we've received the information. We have it under review. That's uh good enough for application completeness. We can work out any final permitting if there is any comments on the review at that stage. And the last thing was the update county 911 911 with new address locations on site.

That's correct. I I have that as a note. I wanted to sort of determine where all this squares away and and in fact that the carriage house will hold four units and before I proceed with that, but that's that's next on my list. Okay. So the only other thing is on that just received it. Yes.

Thank you, Kyle. Thank you. So you want to classify the action. Yeah. So we have to declare this is unlisted. So we need a motion for that.

Motion to declare the seeker on this. Toby to first off would be to classify the action. I think staff believes it should be an unlisted action. Sorry that um so the first step would be to uh for the board to resolve to classify the action. Uh staff has recommended that it be classified as an unlisted action. uh and then to move to uh determine its environmental significance which would be either a negative or a positive declaration. Right. So is there is there a motion?

I make a motion to declare to seek your uh unlisted action. I second it. A vote. All in favor? All in favor? I I three. In favor? Right. So this unlisted action. So now you want to determine its environmental significance. Um can make a motion for either make a motion for um to determine a positive or negative declaration for seeker.

I make a motion to uh declare this a negative I second that. Commentation discussion. All in favor? I three for the neg deck. All right. And then uh do we feel that the application is complete? Good. I make a motion to declare the application complete. Second. Uh second that. Uh discussion. Any discussion? No. How about you?

All in favor? All in favor? I I I Okay. And then the last thing, uh motion to schedule a hearing. I make a motion to schedule a hearing for August. For August. I second that. Any discussion? No. All in favor? I I have it. Three to nothing. All right. Okay. Good.

Great. Thank you everyone. See you next time. All right. Next on the agenda is PL PB 20250018 249 River Street.

Hello. Hello. Uh my name is Allison Phillips. I'm an attorney with the law firm Young Summer uh local council to National Grid. Uh we're here tonight on our proposed project we're calling the Troy uh UTN site, the um underground thermal energy uh network project um to be located at 249 River Street. Um the project includes the construction of a new 1400 square foot building which will serve as the energy center building um for um the thermal energy network that will be um developed by national grid. Um the property is owned by the city of Troy and will be leased to the Troy Local Development Corporation and then subleasased back to National Grid. Um since first appearing before the planning board in April at the sketch plan conference, um the project's undergone review. Um uh we've taken into account the comments we received early on from the planning board and have incorporated a lot of that into revisions to the project design which have been uh provided to you in a complete uh civil plan set. We've also gone before the historic review commission um uh developed um revised architectural uh plans in response to comments received during that review process and also obtained a variance from the zoning board um from the provisions of uh chapter 285 which would have required a 30-foot uh separation distance between the buildings to provide that unobstructed view down to the water. So, we're back here to the planning board to request site plan review uh approval for the project. Um there's also a question as to whether or not we need a waiver um for to site uh you know public utility infrastructure in the um resilient water resilient waterfront and flood risk overlay zone. Um the parcel itself, there is a portion of the parcel that appears to be located in that overlay zone when looking at the map. Um, but as we can get into more

detail, if the board has any questions, that portion of the parcel that we're actually proposing to to construct on is actually at a higher elevation, which we submit takes it out of the overlay. Um, but to the extent the board believes that a waiver is needed, um, it has the authority to grant that waiver under the zoning law. So, we would request that by motion. Uh we have tonight here our team including um CHA who has worked on developing the civil plans, our architectural consultant and also some representatives from National Grid. Um in in the event the board has any questions for us.

I have one question. There's a there's some discussion as to what a banded window is. Maybe you could clarify what a banded window is. Sure. Um, and if I may, I'll I'll get the back of up our technical consultant here who could speak to it better than us and has actually brought some of our uh renderings here just to kind of illustrate what we're talking about.

So, this is the revised elev. Now, I'm not sure what you guys have uh what was submitted to you guys, but this is the revised elevation that was submitted to you guys with comment from HR. We originally presented the building. This was all storefront. The glass went down to the ground. HRC requested that we relieve the glass from hitting the ground. So, there's solid wall that's underneath it. And it follows your uh zoning uh codes. That's J. They're all storefront openings windows not store but we did respond to that comment.

Thank you. So, so my understanding is we need a waiver for placing u a utility structure in that district utility infrastructure within the uh flood overlay zone. Right. So that's a something we the planning board has is the only board that has the authority to grant that waiver to give them this waiver. So in order for it to go Yeah. if you believe it's appropriate and just you you can do so by motion and vote.

Right. Um Okay. C can we explain uh the waiver? I'm I'm trying to understand. Um you mentioned part of the building was in a flood or I guess part of the building is in that zone where this waiver is needed. So it it might be more accurate to say I mean the the part of the lot is definitely within the flood overlay zone. The maps themselves conflict. Uh there's more than one map that shows the flood overlay zone. On one of the maps, I think the line seems to go may go be going behind this structure they're proposed to build. Uh on another map, it seems to encompass more of the lot. So out of an abundance of caution, I think uh a waiver is uh should be sought and the board should consider whether or not to grant it. Uh this is utility infrastructure which means that you know it will be um providing essential uh services to to down to the downtown area essential utility services. So question about existing utilities on that site. How are you interacting with that? Is this slab on grade basically?

Yeah, it is. So we're not going down below.

My name is Nick Schwarz, principal landscape architect with CHA. Uh so with regards to the utilities, there are some major utilities that are running underneath the building. We are rrooting all of the utilities outside of the building footprints and around the proposed building. We've been working with uh the city's department of public works to make that happen and have gone through a rigorous process with them to make sure that everybody was on board with both uh water, sewer, storm water, and gas as well as electric. So everything is going to be clearly rooted out and around that parcel.

Thank you. Around the whole parcel or around the building around the building and mostly outside of the leased parcel line. So with the objective that the city has access to service any of these? Absolutely. Yep. they will have clear and unfettered access to all of the city-owned utilities that are currently running that will be relocated. So, another question um the where the building sits uh there was a staircase behind yes

there how far back does this building go in comparison to that staircase? Is that staircase? I know it's not functional now. Um, but in consideration of the future, what about the back of the property, the building that you're you're proposing to do? The back of the building still allows uh enough access behind the building for free and clear access uh for any future uh stairway that would want to go down there. It also respects the current ADA access down from Front Street into the adjacent building.

Now, my understanding also is that this is going to be like a pumping station basically. So yes, it's it's basically going to be a building that houses pumps uh and other equipment uh that will uh provide a conduit to recirculate the um you know liquid that heats and cools the system. So the wells themselves are going to be in the park. Is that correct?

Yes. So the the water the warm water coming out of the ground I alleged warm water coming out of the ground is then going to go back you know behind us into the pumping station or below grade or how's that going to work with that I'm going to turn it over to uh Brendan Hall. Brendan Hall is from CHA. Wow. And uh can maybe explain the the process a little bit better. That's fantastic.

Yeah. Brendan Hall was with CHA consulting. We're the engineer director project. Um the question was the route the water is going to go to the so the all of our geothermal infrastructure which will be owned by the Troy LDC sit down on river the front street grade in riverfront park that will route through uh front street and go route under below grade up into our site that's going to sit up on

all right that kind of answers the question. Yeah, thank you. Um, one thing I was looking up that on that plot the 100redyear flood plane in that area is 26 feet and so our uh our grade level at that 31 noted. Um, anything else? What's the noise? The noise from these pumps is it uh

I can address that. So the building itself where there will be equipment located provides a noise attenuation you know just from being enclosed. There will be some equipment on the roof but that will also be enclosed by a parapit structure that will also provides a provide a mitigating effect to attenuate noise and the application documents reflect that we will be compliant with all you know applicable noise limits at the property line.

Very good. Thank you. and uh exterior lighting. Um you know, is there any plans to to kind of light the site? That's a dark area right now. Um and you know, keeping up with, you know, what we've done in downtown, you know, there's a lot of people on the street now to make this building look like, you know, it belongs. Um uh is there any thought about exterior lighting? It's a nice looking building. Let's let's show it off, you know, even though it's a pump house. Sure.

Yeah. So, you know, we'll be happy to look at some security level lighting that would fit within the current downtown guidelines. You know, we don't want to light the parcel up too much, but I can understand the security concern. Well, I think it's more decorative than security. And you know the some of the is dependent on those street lights which are you know not functioning right now but yeah you know if your building is lit it just helps and it would look it would the building would look better too. Yeah we can certainly look at the uh on the south side to to provide some level of exterior decorative decorative lighting that meets with code. Thank you. Sure. Okay.

So we need a motion to Um that completion for utility structure. Exactly. I make a motion to grant uh a waiver for utility structure to reside in the RWS. I second that. Any discussion? No. Uh all in favor say I. I.

I. Three to zero. Passes. Next thing would be uh do we feel that the application is complete? I make a motion to declare the application complete. I second that motion. Any comment? All in favor say I. I. I. Three to zero. Motion passes. All right. Then uh do we need to uh provide a waiver for the utility service structure on

You just did. We just did. Okay. So that the other motion did that for us. Um next thing would be to schedule a hearing. Do we have a motion? Make a motion to schedule a hearing for uh the next meeting in August. Right. I second that motion. All in favor? I say I I three to nothing. See you in August. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for your time. Now I think the front of the building is what I was thinking about.

Right. So I was thinking so in the future, right? things are that way, right? Okay. Um, next on the agenda, uh, is PLPC 20250041819 fifth. Evening, Lindsay Hooper of Pison, Samson, Ginsburg, and Griffin. Can you speak into the microphone there? Hello. Can you hear me? Is that better? Barely. I'm old and I can't hear very well. Lindseay Hooper on behalf of Patterson Samson Ginsburg and Griffin the attorneys for the applicant 18/19 Fifth Avenue Associates LLC.

Thank you.

So we are seeking to subdivide a lot that currently has two existing structures. One is being used uh it's a carriage house for residential purposes. The other is a commercial office space. So we are seeking to subdivide that lot. So the residential and the commercial buildings are on individual lots. Okay, I'm just pulling it up here to take a look. Okay, there are some questions about uh we need an an easement. Is that right? We need a permanent easement or

so I think they have provided an easement but I haven't had an opportunity to review it. So I would request that anything you do be subject to review of the easement by corporation council. I'm pretty sure that'd be okay with the applicant. Yes, absolutely. It's not a hearing tonight. So, I think just having it in the No, we're just putting on the record right now.

So, um so basically this there are no other changes to the property. We're just looking at a a division uh to separate the properties for the purposes of Yes, they are both essentially being used for different purposes. One's a residential renovated carriage house that's turned into apartments and the other building is being used exclusively as an office space at this time. So, the intention is just to split those up. Um there's no, you know, other plans other than that at this time just so that the you know, one is corporateowned basically and one is owned as a residence. Correct. Okay, I understand. It's a beautiful property, by the way. It is.

Um, okay. So, you had questions about the staircase. Yeah. and the back of so a little bit confusing on the the actual uh drawings where you know and I think I I think I know I'm a little bit familiar with the property but um the staircase that goes to the third story rooftop deck that's an exterior staircase right that is an interior staircase that's an interior staircase yes so but the subdivision line cuts that plus. So, correct, it would only allow access to that third floor rooftop

under this. So, yeah, I I guess what I'm I'm misunderstanding um because it looks like the drawing to me that looks like an exterior set of stairs outside the subdivision line prop the proposed division line and then the stairs are outside of that. I mean, I I don't know if I'm confused about the drawing or or I don't see how that could be an interior staircase in the back. Oh, in the back. I thought you were Yeah, by the staircase to the third story rooftop deck for the residence, right? Okay. That we we were trying to figure that out and uh

you know, my understanding is that that starts on the second floor of the carriage house, correct? and comes off the balcony of the carriage house. So there is it's sort of like a landing, right? Um if you It is interior. So there is a a door between You mean it's covered? Yes. Okay. So it's not interior. It's not interior to the commercial space. I believe it is interior to the commercial space. There is a door that would be if it hasn't been already. My understanding is it will be completely sealed off. Is there a Is there a firewall between the

I do not know the answer to that, but I could certainly find out if one needed to be installed. I I don't anticipate that being a problem. I would think they would have to be there'd have to be a fire rated division partition of some sort. Yeah. Well, this between the two properties completely, but this is the subdivision right here. So, this is interior interior to the carriage house. So, I I think the stairs, they must be interior to the carriage house, correct?

Right. Okay. Okay. That was our, you know, we're trying to figure that out. As far as means of egress from the commercial property that Yep. that's going to come out onto the residential subdivision. Correct. So there's front and uh you can go through the front of the building and then if there's a second means of egress is that going to go onto the residential parcel? Yes. And that is what that easement would account for. Emergency and maintenance egress out of that side door through the covered porch onto the driveway. Great. Thank you.

There'll be no connection between the commercial between lot two and the stairs that lead to the deck on lot one. That is my understanding. Yes, it would be completely I think there is right now access but I believe that the understanding is to seal that off and not utilize that. And you don't know if the partition is fire rated? I do not at this time.

Um okay. So I I guess what we uh we should be engaged to do here is uh determine seeker if you have enough information to do that. Do do you feel we have enough information to make a secret determination?

Basically this is subdivision. staff recommends that it be deemed an unlisted action. Right. So, do we need a motion to uh we need a motion to declare that action? Um I'll present a motion to declare this as an unlisted action. Under secret. Under secret. Second. I second. Any discussion? All in favor? I I

officially three to three to nothing. No. Tony are we are we see So you should let your minutes reflect that, right? We now have a fourth board member in attendance. Um do we have to do a new roll call or

No. Okay. So we have uh we have uh Tony Dickinson here now and uh so it makes a fourth board member for tonight. Um and uh so the next uh part of business here is to determine whether we have a complete application. You can determine environmental environmental significance. Oh under secret, right?

Neg. Um, so is do we have a a positive declaration or negative declaration? Our seeker here to make that a motion. Go ahead. No, I haven't been I haven't Can you make a motion for I'll make a motion that we ex um negative negative declaration for seeker. Any discussion? Second. Go ahead. I second. Uh discussion. All right. All in favor say I. I. I.

I. Passes. Four to nothing. By the way, I was an I as well. Um. All right. And then the next thing is to, you know, is there anything else we need to see on this? Can we declare this application complete?

Go ahead. I don't have it in front of me, so I don't

I make a motion to declare the application complete. I second that motion. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. I. I. Four to nothing. Passes. All right. And then to schedule a hearing in August. Do we have a motion? I'll make a motion that we plan a hearing for our next August meeting. I second that. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. I ask the support of nothing. See you next month.

Thank you very much. If I could just chime in real quick, Lindsay, if you could help us get some uh clarification on that inner corridor area of the site. Um absolutely. That'd be awesome. Yeah, I'll provide um pictures or floor plans and things of that nature meeting. Thank you. And the and the easement, correct? I think they've already provided the instrument, but the the fire rating for the right the stairs for the division wall. Yes, absolutely. I will because I I think if they're going to be separate parcels, they the wall has to be Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you.

All right. Next on the agenda is 161 River Street, PLPB 20250039.

Good evening.

I'm Lee Bay, architect, um, Redbane Design. I'm here representing uh Patrice Mingham and Michael Wisto who are the owners uh and operators of uh the Candy Factory at 161 River Street. And we're here tonight to introduce the project and also to uh get any uh input you guys may have uh for moving forward with uh getting approval at 661 River Street. and we're proposing to put up a 1,620 square foot elevated deck at the rear of the building. Um, and we basically want to introduce the project and get your input. I believe you guys have the drawings, right? Concept drawings. I'm trying to Okay, there it is. Okay, so it's this is a if we're on Front Street, this is a second floor.

Yes, it would be the second floor. And there are stair stairs coming off the property behind the building. There is a small existing wood stair at the at the rear of the property um which gives access to the basement area almost at grade. So, um, so that how far is that coming out off the property? If I can the the the the proposed deck is going to, uh, protrude from the face of the property approximately 30 feet. 30 feet from the building out

from the face rear face of the building out toward the river. 30. Yeah. Okay. The So, the property underneath the deck is Go ahead. What's the deal with the property underneath the deck? I mean, who owns the property?

Um, the entire property is owned by uh Miss uh Patrice McMahan and Mike Wor. Um, so the the basement area now is being currently used as a residential space um rental space. The second floor of the unit, which actually is being served from River Street, is the only commercial portion of the building. The rest is all residential apartments. So, you're putting a 1600 square foot deck over the first floor apartments. Uh, if I may, there is actually no first floor apartment. Sir, you got to speak on the microphone.

Okay. Actually, there we have a we have a dog. We keep the dog on the first floor. We my wife is uh involved in animal fostering. So we've created just an area for the dog. Prior to this meeting, we had gotten an approval from the H the HCR historic people uh to put a fence there. So our plan is to grade that out with grass and and and and and shrubbery uh and to keep our dog there. But there is no uh first floor apartment. That's just uh somewhere which would be access for the dog to come in and out.

So the whole first floor of your building is just that. Oh well the actually the whole first from the back that is the first floor or that's there's the basement and then there's the first floor then there's really the true first floor. It's actually a subbase, a basement, and then the first floor. So, the first floor would be street level on the first floor, street level, and that is where we're proposing to bring the deck from the first floor. We use that as an event space, the rear of the building, the first floor, the front of the building.

So, this is actually technically in the back. It's actually the third floor of the de where the deck is. And there's a set of stairs there that have were there when we purchased the building. Um, and we just use them for access in and out for the dog. And the dog goes wherever it goes throughout the building. The stairs will remain.

The stairs will remain. Yes, we are going to when we do the fence, we are going to repair the stairs. We were just discussing um coming out 30 feet from the building like the the picture the image we have here. There's there's cars parked there. Um is there potentially uh some old railroad tracks or something out underneath that? They have been abandoned. Okay. So they're they're they look like they're there, but they don't continue the whole way. Um they actually end right by the staircase. Uh matter of fact, they were there and um they've been torn up. So they they end right in the middle of the staircase.

Begs a question that what kind of utilities are under that? Uh there's some kind of water pipe that we have dealt with the water department and have gotten permission to come over top of the deck. That's the reason that the deck when you come out from the building, we need to step up the deck because at that point we need to have a clearance according to the water department in case there's some ever any kind of problem or anything like that. They needed 18 feet in order to get their equipment under there. And that's why there's a step up. I believe there's three steps up from the actual first floor elevation.

To answer your question, there's a 20 direct, right? So, we had to So, the city has an easement under this deck. So, is there any kind of clearance that you need coming out 30 ft and then are you going to have parking beyond that right behind Front Street?

Currently, there's there's there's parking there, but it's not official parking like we did the environmental assessment. Um, all of that was based upon space park. So, satisfied. Um there is some parking there but mainly it's for deliveries things of that nature for the venue space above. So it's not actually sorry could you could I just make sure

I'm sorry I'm sorry. Yeah the parking requirement has been satisfied prior when we did the event years ago. So, when you say venue space, what do you plan on hosting there? We mostly do weddings, bridal showers, things like that. Really only uh we're not open full-time, although we could be. We are not. Um we're we're for example, Friday we have a wedding, Sunday we have a bridal, a bridal shower, next week we have a wedding and um a baby shower. So those are the kind of things we do. It's an existing business. Okay. So how many square feet do you have in that first floor

on the for the for the venue space? It's been so long since I did that. I want to say uh what um the total square footage I'm not sure about 9,000 about 9,000. Yeah. Say 9,000 10,000 square feet. And we actually never have, not because we are not permitted, but most of our events are on the weekends. So most of our parking is taken by the the the State Street parking garage where it's free nights and weekends. Uh there's never been a parking issue with us ever. We've never had a problem parking. So that's just right down the street.

Correct. It's at the end of the block on the same block. Yeah. So, do you have a current survey with the easements drawn? I do. I might have one right here. I submitted it. You guys should have a copy of it. Also,

the concern that we received was that um there was no um search done for any uh encroachment because it prior to that I think it was called Dock Street and DOT had owned uh a portion of that area back there and there was some concern as to whether or not uh we were encroaching upon that. But we uh we were not encroaching upon it. the surveyor um the reason why he placed a note on there the concern was that he said that he did not do a search and in actuality he did and found that there was no no reason for concern so we just didn't list on

I want to specify you guys are using languages uh stating encroachment and uh easements because on this survey that was submitted to staff the first note says no search of the public record was made by the survey by the survey office for easements or agreements that may affect the surveyed parcel.

Yeah, that's that's what I'm referencing and but he did do it. He did do the search. Um but he because there was nothing, you know, that any any incumbrances, encroachments, anything like that, he just didn't add it to it. So, I'm familiar with a deed from one of the neighboring properties and that deed chain has in it a restriction from the city of Troy with respect to and I think you may have referenced something yourself with respect to access to that 20-inch water mane which runs in dock street. Yes.

And which you know obviously can't be tampered with in any way or permanently covered up. Um and one of the concerns in the in the neighboring properties deed chain, there's a restriction written right into it that says that you can't if you build any structure on the face of the building facing uh River Street, there has to be enough clearance for our backos and equipment to get in there. Do you have such a restriction in your day D chain? We do. We actually bought the property prior to the next door neighbor. We bought we purchased a property from the city. Okay. Okay.

Um and that we've we've dealt with the building department and the water department. They are actually the ones that came up with the 18 ft clearance that we were going to need for the back hole. We would have never wanted to build it. We would have come down instead of going up. We would have built a deck 14. Sure. Has this have these communications been done in writing? Because uh uh some of them some have some have. Um we spoke directly with Carlo. Carlo was uh from the building department. Carlos from the building department, right? But DP DPU would be someone like Andrew maybe or Yeah. Right. Exactly. We spoke to them directly about it and they just gave it to us and said this this is what it needs to be. This is where I'm sorry I

Oh, I'm sorry. They they spoke we spoke with them and they just gave verbally and saying that uh that it needed the minimum clearance needed to be 18 feet above that so that they can get access in case of a water man. Um there was no there was no written communication right that there is something in writing in the deed itself correct and I think that might have been what they where they got the uh requirement from um is from that from that information that you're referencing but was never communicated to us in a written form. Can you provide the board with a copy of the deed which contains the restrictive language in it?

Okay. And um I guess I guess the board the board the board could inquire of DPU exactly in have them specify in writing what it is they require. I mean I'm not disbelieving you in any respect but I think it would do well for the board to document its file. I agree. I think we need that documentation, but also you I'm looking at the survey and you know, do you you don't have any easements in front of you from this project at all? Like to look at the easements as well. No, I don't have any easements and there may it may just be in the deed itself

and it might be in the form of a restricted use uh because it was acquired from the city and you would you would need to see that. I would need to see that. Right. That's why I've asked for that. And uh um and what is the distance between ground level and the bottom of this deck? 18 feet. It is 18 ft. Okay. But it's coming out a full 30 ft.

Full 30. One of the reason one of the reasons that it needs to come out so far is after talking to Carlos and the water people, they were concerned if there was ever a blowout in the in the pipe that the water would disturb the foundation and the footing. So we came up with the foundation for the pier had to be a minimum of five feet away from the edge of the deck. So from the edge of the water pipe. So instead of building a deck 20 ft, okay, we needed that additional space to go where we could put our peers. So since we were going to go 22, 24 ft, we figured we might as well go the whole 30 ft because we figured out that would fit our um dining tables for our weddings better at a 30 foot than a 22 foot.

But you're not putting anything on the ground itself. You're putting everything up. Nothing going to be on the ground except the fence that we already have a permit. Do you have is the water pipe uh located? It's a 20-in man. Yes, it is located. Yes. Same date came out. I'm sorry. Say sir, safe date came out and did the locating of the actual pipe. All right. But it's not shown on the survey itself. Um the water department when we spoke to them, they were able to to give us a general location. Um we never verified that the location that they gave us and with uh safe dig actually located the pipe at was you know that they job with one another but yeah we do know approximately where it's at. It's marked. It's currently marked right now.

Actually if I can correct him not to really. So we called a safe dig. They came out and they came for the electric the cable and everything else. And then they said the city of Troy does the water line. City of Troy came out and marked the water line. Wasn't quite correct. Then there was a leak and they came and they dug and so now we have the actual 100% physical location of where the water line is. So is that laid out on the ground or on a map? It's laid out on the ground. We can transfer this. We I've spoken to the surveyor. The survey will come out and survey that and locate it on the new survey. I think you want that, right?

Yeah, we definitely want that. you know, we're going to need the easements and all that kind of stuff. Mainly, there's going to be now that we're building a deck over the top, you know, is there some agreement that needs to happen between them and the water department or the city? Well, that I think there there may have to be I think the water we the board would want the water department to to at least uh offer its permission to construct that over the over that area because I don't know, you know, 18 feet sounds like enough. It's but it's a pretty big It's 30 feet by what? It'll be 30 feet by 25 feet or

30 feet by 50 feet. So, it's a big structure really. It's a big roof over that area. And uh I mean our concern as a city was if there ever is a blowout or something like that, we have to be able to get in there fast and perform whatever maintenance is required. And you could, you know, that we can't be interfered with by the structure

and and we understand that and that's why when we designed it, we didn't design any interior peers. Although it would have been more economical for us to design interior peers. We could have used smaller beams and things like that. But instead, we came out with no interior peers, no interior footings or anything like that. So there would be actually three ways to get in from right hand side of the deck, left hand side of the deck or from the river side of the deck. So they could bring in any kind of equipment that they need. Our peers are 10 ft apart. Any piece of equipment that the city has is less than 10. Is it a steel structure then? It is a steel structure. Yes. Okay.

All right. So I I I think you know the board will will need that deed with the restrictive language for sure. any other communications that you've had with the water department and the updated uh survey showing the exact location of the water line because you say now it's it's definitely located. Right. Correct. Now, how many feet down is it? Do you know? I I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure we could find out from the people that were there. It's pretty far down. It's probably It's at least five feet, I think. Yeah.

I remember seeing it from the water department. So, on your to-do list, there's one. Um, I think that, you know, you know, the survey, you know, doesn't reference any of the easements. Obviously, I think, you know, we'd probably ask you for a survey with the deck overlay and the exact locations of these easements.

We have already spoken um to to Mr. Mezer, I believe Dale Mezer is our surveyor. uh he's already agreed to come out and do that. He was actually going to set up try to set up a meeting um with with Eric. Uh so and we were going to go over what all of the things that you need, but we don't have any problem providing that survey with the easements and the water lines and things like that. That's that's not an issue. How many people do you expect to have on the deck at one time? Uh pro probably less than 80.

Less than 80. This is really not like a deck to have a music party or things like that out there. And it's generally going to only be used during the spring and summer and early fall for us to Everybody wants to go out on a deck when they get married. They either want to go out on a deck or they want to stand by a pond. Well, we don't have a pond. Okay. But we do have the river. We do have the river. So that's why we want to put the deck, you know, so that they can stand out there and take the picture with the river behind them.

The um the deck itself is, you know, it's peers uh the the steel and then concrete reinforced concrete deck basically. But it's steel and then it it's going to get a decking. It gets a corrugated decking and then it'll have lightweight concrete uh sprayed onto it and then finished. So, 1600 square ft. What are you going to do with all the water that's on the deck? It's got to drain somewhere.

We're going to have a drain and and we'll drain it just down into the park into our into our parking lot. Just like the water comes down now, it just goes into the parking lot. And there's a swale actually there and it runs right into the swale. That was an issue that we had when we were trying to figure out what we were going to do with our grass area inside of our fence and we came up with we're going to put a gravel a 2-in gravel in there so that the water will come and it will all slope towards the to the gravel and then it'll run to the swale and that that's how it's it's done now. There won't be any additional runoff.

So, it's all permeable underneath. No, it is not at all permeable because it's got all Belgium blocks. So that's why it has to go into the swale runs directly down toward the end. Excuse me. The swell runs down toward the uh what would be the south end and there's a large um uh yeah large catch basin at the end and with sewer Storm water. Storm water. Right. Exactly.

What's the city engineers thought on that on the structure or on on the storm water? Sounds like there's a game plan to address all these. I think there have been good questions and good responses. the when Mezer does your survey, you might want to have him just kind of identify. I I am. Oh, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Um, no problem. When Mezer does his survey, updated survey, uh, he might want to identify that particular drain. Okay.

So, just to put on the record, and we could do the calcs if we need to as well, but the the the amount of runoff um, you know, coming up that area is probably not going to be a lot. All right. So you guys have a a little bit of a checklist to go over, right? Yeah. Let's just clarify now the results of the meeting, there'll be minutes, which will, you know, spell everything out for us. Okay, that's Well, you can have access to the recording. Some of the the details of the conversation, the minutes won't really be extensive. Okay. Motions are, you know, typically always provided on the minutes. So, do we So, we we got a whole list of of concerns. Do are any of these valid concerns? I mean, I'm sure they are.

This is regarding the application. Our application like we're talking about green space. Are those things we we we can we can address now or not? I mean, I see what are we going to do about green space? I don't know that we need green space for yet.

Uh, no. No. But, um, what we're looking for essentially is a site plan. A site a site plan that's overlaid to this uh survey that's two scale. And in that you want to document any kind of additional green space or per uh pvious surfaces that can only go in your favor. So if you're planning on grading underneath the staircase within that fenced in area, put that on your site plan. Show that. That's that's that's positive. You know what I mean? Um but you know that there's there's just some details that we want to see. you know, while I'm at it, just to be sure, um, you want to make sure that you hit HRC for all of this.

Okay. So, I I do need to bring this up because that seems to be an issue. We have gotten approval from them at the February 13, 2024 meeting for the deck. Yes. contingent upon details of our exterior door, a lighting plan, what else? And the guardrail and and they wanted to know what kind of fencing we were going to have. Now, that was also a trend. All right. Um, that sounds great. I'll have to do a dive into the files because all I saw was like a HRC visit for the the fence that you have on the

right. This was this was prior to this. This was in February 2024. And unfortunately, they don't send out a letter. They send out an email and they sent it out to Mr. Day and his computer crashed. I do have all of the records between uh corresponding about the accepting of the application, the meeting. I actually don't have the final

determination from them. But so now my question is since I'm here is we have now expanded the deck. Okay. Although it's still the same deck, it's just a bigger square footage. Do we still need to go back there and start with them or will our existing approval if we make the change the request that they wanted suffice?

Yeah. I I mean um what I'll do is I'll I'll double check the files when we when we go back to work tomorrow. Um, assuming that what you say is correct, if you're not changing any materials, uh, essentially you're just making an expansion of length, then you would, if that is true, you know, that would that would, uh, that would not require you to to get another another, um, review of that. And the approximate date of that letter, if there the communication should be July 13th in and around that area of 2024. 2024. Okay. Um, we're working, sorry, I'm sorry. February 13, 2020. February. Okay.

The meeting was February 13th, 2024 was actually the meeting when we when we went. Sure. We'll we'll have staff create um some degree of minutes for you guys so that you can review that. So, yeah, we're working on creating more formal documents to um a certificate of um appropriateness. Appropriateness. Are there any other concerns from seen in there that we can address that are need to be addressed? Well, I think your your big thing is to survey the existing easements. You know, we got to go through that when we overlay

and you know, give us, you know, a good view of what happens with the water. Um, obviously you have an engineer doing the deck, so you know, this is going to be public. Safety is a concern there. Whatever you can help us with on that, that would be great, too. Okay. biggest things for us I think right now is like you know the easement access to this water thing you know it's a big deal and uh so that that's the biggest thing I think as a board we have to determine uh position on seeker on this right it's unlisted do we have to declare yeah you would have to so we're going to need a motion on that declare unlisted anything else for these people

no any other questions I have one more that I want to ask Um, so I I I'm envisioning this without having seen a rendering. Okay. But you've got peers 10 ft apart going around the perimeter of the deck, I guess. Right. We actually have a picture if you would like to see it drawings. I didn't bring any fullsize drawings. I will send over some uh renderings over to I so so my question actually was uh are you designing this in a way that you don't need braces running between the peers clear spent

clear spent okay all right because obviously obviously braces would inhibit access put the braces there nobody could ever get in right so do you already have a structural engineer on for on this? We do. And you'll have stamp plans for that? Oh, yeah. Do you know what the approach for soils is going to be yet? I'm just saying you're supporting this thing in like four piers, but you know, I don't know if Well, we're going to we're planning on having big um fat footings. We're not looking at like, you know, little 6 in to hold this stuff.

Well, the soil conditions back there, you know, I did that a long time ago. Basically, you got Sandy Loom back in that area. Um, and yes, it's more than adequate to support the the weight of the uh, and we can get an engineering report. Yes, please. Would you like to see a soils report included with it? If you have a soils report, yeah, that'd be great. And and the once again, the peers will not go over go direct. They'll be five feet away from the minimum five feet minimum 5t away from the water line. They're going to be more than 10. Are there any setback issues we have to deal with from those peers to their property line? No. No. No.

Okay. Okay. So, um so I think we're good. Uh, we need to get those documents, the overlays, uh, the easement, new survey, overlays, um, what we're doing with the water and so you can show us. And, um, as a board, we have to determine the status of seeker here. Um, so we have to make a motion about it being unlisted. Pick two. Is it? It's unlisted. So I need a motion. I'll make a motion that we declare this seeker unlisted. Any second?

I second that. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. I. I. Four to zero. Um. Yeah. All right. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Um uh why don't you give me a call tomorrow? I'm over here. Okay. Why don't you give me a call tomorrow? Um, we'll go over the stuff that, you know, the site plan should should cover. Um, you we didn't discuss any kind of lighting elements here tonight. So, we we'll all want an understanding of what that looks like when they come. What I'll do for the board when we return, I'll have full 3D renderings and things that nature and I'll be a little bit more because right now it's just a concept. Sure. You know, it's just an idea. So, you know, we'll develop it a little bit more. Sounds great.

Time to return. Do you want these back or can I No, you can keep Eric. Um, so on the second page of the staff notes or review, they're going to have all their questions answered on the Yeah, I'll work with the applicants since they have a list of streets and they have this list in their possession. So, I'm sure that they'll be doing some editing and revisions and such. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Next on the agenda, PLPB 20250041310 Spring Aford.

Hi. Hello. Hi. Hi. I'm Nicole. I'm with TSL Adventures. You can you can you don't have to stand on your tippy toes. There you go. You can probably just tilt that down. Take it off. I can take it off. Yeah, there you go. Just pull. It made me feel uncomfortable that I'm short. Um I'm here today. Uh we are currently at Sacred Heart uh at 310 Spring AB. Um we do currently have a school age uh childcare license. Um we are trans uh transitioning it over to a daycare center. We are not doing any changes. Everything is staying the same. We are just switching over to a daycare license.

Do you know what the state will be requiring of you? Yes, we uh already just passed our uh fire inspection. Are you talking about OCFs? Yes. Uh we just recently had our fire inspector come out. We passed blind colors no uh issues on their end. Uh we have our next uh OCFS visit on July 27th or 29th, whatever that Tuesday is. Um I will be conducting that with OCFs and that's just their final walk through to uh get us license, but on their end we are good to go. So you're doing nothing to the exterior of the building, correct? Nothing to sidewalks, no nothing like that. Nothing to the interior of the building.

Nope. So what we're doing is we're really changing older kids for younger kids. Um pretty much yeah the school uh Sacred Heart school had closed. Um so we are taking over their classrooms. That is all we're doing on our end. We are not adding any addition into it or any sort. Now the trips are going to be less or more now. It's saying you drop your kids off at daycare, pick them up later in the day where it used to be buses or what happened?

Uh, no. Sacred Heart was there was no buses unless they were coming from Troy City School District. Uh, or if out of uh but it was a private school, right? So, we had no affiliation with that. Um, we do still have Troy City School District still bringing older kids because our daycare license will be able to hold up to 12 years old. Um we are uh in contract with uh Troy City School District for universal prek. Why we need the daycare center license. So the impact in the community isn't going to really change that much from what it was when it was actually operating at Sacred Heart School. No. If anything, the impact is less or more? Probably less because there won't be any

because the kids are smaller. Yeah. Um, no. We will have uh we'll still have the school age buses coming to drop off at the top of uh calling, but other than that, parents will be dropping off in the morning and then picking up in the afternoon. Gotcha. Is this part of TSO? Yes. I I know the owners. Yes. They couldn't be here today. They sent me Thomas, Shemica, and Lynette. Right. Correct. Correct. All right. Um, any other questions? Yeah. Why is it before us that they're not changing anything? Because change of use requires.

Yeah. Anytime it's a school or church, I believe. Thank you. All right. So, uh, I guess the in order for us to go forward, we have to determine seeker. Um, I believe this is a type two. Uh, is that correct? That's correct. So, we need a motion to determine that this is a type two seeker application. I make a motion that we do it as a type two application for seeker. I second. I second that motion. Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. I.

I. Motion passes four to zero. So, no further environmental review is required, right? You're good there. Um, it is there anything anybody else needs for this application? I don't think so. I mean, they're keeping nothing's changed. Yeah, we're kind of surprised. Yeah, nothing's changing. So, if there's a motion to declare the application complete, I make a motion to declare the application complete. I'll second it. Second. Second. All in favor say I. I. I.

I. Passes four to zero. Um and then uh do we need to schedule a hearing next meeting in August which is going to be buried? Um, so we need a motion for that. I'll make a motion that we have a public hearing in our August meeting. What is it? The 18th or whatever. The 19th. 19th. August 19th. A public hearing. I second. Any discussion? Uh, all in favor say I. I. I. I. Passes four to zero. You're good to go. Yay. See you next see you in August.

Okay, looks like the close of our agenda here.

I just need a motion just to close the hearing. To adjourn to adjourn the hearing. I'm sorry. See, I make a motion to adjurnn. Any second? I'll second. All in favor say I. I. I. This is sporty.