Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Campus. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Morning everybody. Welcome to uh the Florida County Board of Commissioners regularly uh scheduled meeting here on Tuesday, August 15th, 2025. We'll start with the consent agenda.

Approval of payroll July 18th and August 1st, 2025. Approval of claims June 26, July 17th, July 24th, and July 31st, 2025. Approval of minutes, July 15th, 2025. Weights and measures annual report July 16th, 2024 through June 15, 2025. Chair motion to approve. Second.

We have a motion to approve as well as a second. All those in favor say I. Those opposed, same sign. Those approved. We have one announcement accepting applications for the West Porter Fire District to complete the term of Guy Kazmatki uh which will end December uh 31st, 2025. No political affiliation is required. Must be a Porter County resident of the West Porter Fire District. however, also must have experience in fire protection. Applications must be in by Thursday, August 21st, 4:30 p.m. Uh, we're going to jump off here for a quick second. Um, we're going to take

Yes. We have a request uh to use the southeast and southwest corners of the courthouse grounds on Sunday, August 17th from 4:45 p.m. until 7:15 p.m. hold a 450 uh 501 rally. Uh they will have handheld signs and one table. That's correct. Okay.

What do you have to talk to me about? Uh I received as well as the other two commissioners u a snapshot a photograph of some graffiti that was written on um the sidewalk during the last um okay demonstration. We do have people writing on chalk. What was the graffiti? Um well I'm not going to I can show you it. Okay. It was uh not something I would say in a public meeting. So, I'm guessing this isn't one of the ones the little kids made.

Well, I hope a little kid you spelling that word out. Oh, I didn't see this one. Okay. Well, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to I've already talked to the county attorney about it. Okay. We're not going to allow that. Okay. You have families walking down there doing business in downtown and we're we're not going to allow that. I'm going I'm going to ask if that this has happened again and the sheriff's department is is there that somebody is held accountable for it. Okay. We're not we're not going to we're not you know it just seems like every time we have one of these death it the it gets ramped up. You know it's more megapones.

I think the country is not ramping up. I don't think it's just south. I think it's Chesterton. I think it's Michigan City. I think it's Lake County. We've been fortunate here. We haven't had any violence. They've had violence. Well, I I don't, you know, you all have the right to be upset over whatever it is you're upset about. That is not my, you know, I'm not making any comment toward that at all. I agree. But that is that is hollow ground out there as far as this commissioner is concerned. You start defacing that out there, somebody's going to go to jail. I would not have written that. Um, it would not be something I put on a sign or the sidewalk. Well, Deb,

and I'm sorry that someone did. If I had seen it, I would have crossed it out. Jim, I I I appreciate that, but it's your name going on these permits. It absolutely is. So, I don't know if you you have to hire security to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen. I think I can just tell them not to do this cuz we've never had that happen before. Um, we and we've had people chop the walk before and never had that. And I will talk to I will make an announcement both in the on the Well, I I don't even understand why they're chalking the the walk to begin with. I think whatever they're putting on another Yeah. tool. Yeah. It's another

that's there all week long until somebody washes it off, which is not anybody in your group probably. Look, the the people who come downtown for whatever reason it is, what is is to visit somebody, to visit a business, to purchase a meal someplace. Mhm. Or just or just to walk around beautiful downtown B. They shouldn't have to see that. No, I agree with you. They shouldn't have to see that. Um and and I don't know. And had I seen it, I would have I would have got I would have chopped it off. um water on it

or dumped water on it cuz we always had water for our our uh protesters, but I would never have allowed that one. I'm sorry it was there. Um I tend to be walking around during the whole thing and I don't look down a whole lot. I'm usually scanning the crowd and I will make sure that that never happens again. I mean, nobody going downtown deserves to read that kind of stuff. Absolutely not. And we have little kids that are rallies. I don't want them. Courthouse property knows. I understand. I understand. Well, this is your this is the only warning you're going to get. Okay. Okay. All right. I get it. Now, I we have been very accommodating to you. I think you would agree. Mhm.

And we haven't asked a whole lot from you. No, you have not. We we understand that you have a right to be out there. What you don't have a right to do is to face property. And I would agree that that is absolutely defacing property. And we will I will make sure, you know, I usually walk around afterwards to make sure there's no garbage left, no water bottles, no anything. And I don't know how I missed it, and I'm sorry that I missed it. Now, how can I help you today? Well, I don't know. You seem kind of cranky at me. I don't know if I'm going to ask for a favor. I wasn't cranky before I started this. Wait, the board started my part or and I apologize if I'm coming across that. That is just that just

I agree. I think that kind of stuff very personal and I understand I and I think our residents us my name is under the permit. I don't want that under my name either. That's that was wrong. All right. How can I help you? I will not be here for the next county meeting and we are planning a rally for September 1st. Can we slide that in today or do you just want it? What do you How do you want it? Do you want me to send on December 1st? No, wait. Did I say this? No, you probably said something. My hearing is not what it used to be.

My speaking is not having uh not having our audio today not helping. So, um, I won't be I I'm gonna leave it up to the board. What whatever either we can approve it today or we can request that you come before us in our next meeting. When is our next meeting? The 26th and I won't be. Don't you have a Does she have a Well, Lisa can come, but I decided to today it would be It's up to the other two commissioners. What would you what would what's your pleasure to come to the next meeting? Okay. I'm not here. So, Mr. Rick,

um, but you can you can come to her place. I don't understand. I could I could the permits are usually in her name, which is the only as long as we don't have a problem with it her being her surrogate to come get her name. You know how to sign your name, right? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. That's fine. We'll just We'll see you there. Okay. Okay. All right. Anything else? That's it. All right. Thank you. And I am sorry about that. I know you are. Um it was hadn't seen it, I would have you request.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have to do it through the the request that was on there. Yeah. request. Okay. We we have a request to use the south souththeast and southwest corners of the courthouse grounds on Sunday, August 17th from 4:45 p.m. until 7:15 p.m. uh to hold a 501 rally. They will have handheld signs in one table. We have a motion Sunday evening. Um, yes. Yeah. Goes into Sunday evening 7:15. Are you dinner time?

I move that we approve the appreciative request as stated. Second. We have a motion and a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I. Those post sign. Motion approve. All right. Moving on. Commissioner uh receive open bid for exterior and sealant replacement for the sheriff's office and jail. So before before

those are so before we uh open the bids, we did have this advertised. The bids were due by 9:00 a.m. in this building. We did have one uh bid dropped off uh after the cut off date. We will not be um opening that or taking that into under consideration today. Um we are that particular bid came from Western Specialty Contractors. Joe, you have any statement? Uh, no. Um, the attorney did, uh, mention the fact that these were, uh, due in the office at 9:00 a.m. That is correct. According to the notice of that was published.

So, who advertised? Um, the county did.

We sent the publication over to the newspaper. Okay. But we like office by the future. Okay. Very first one is Burgland Construction. Base bid of $164,000. Base bid of $164,000 from Berlin Construction. The next food is area of construction. G area of construction 242,242,000 G area of construction. The next bid is Carella. $298,934. $298,934. The last good accepted is restore works.

base bid of $186,875. Base bid of $186,875. The store works. According to the paperwork we have in front of us, Western uh specialty contractors submitted as well, but they submitted late. Correct. Okay. Uh Joe, you want to take these and look at them? Yeah, we'll take these over with the architect on the engine. Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. Uh, great news life. Uh, a 202526 upgrade upgraded original partner profile partnership in the amount of $20,350. This is a continuation of the contract that we've had for a couple of years um, which is taking the place of Kurt Ellis who was our media specialist. They are functioning in that role as our media specialist. We have a motion. Motion to approve. Second.

Have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Approved. Uh GIS High Street employee benefits renewal. Uh we have third party administrative services agreement, stop loss plus captive uh reinsurance and consulting agreement, and APA help. Hi,

good morning, Commissioner. Uh so several vendors as you said supporting the county's uh employee benefits program are up for renewal. Uh at the June meeting the commissioner did vote and approve already one component which was the pharmacy benefit manager. So happy to report that that implementation is in process for October 1st uh with the move from optimum to prime. The decisions still needed are on the third party administrator, the stopwalk carrier, uh the captive reinsurance protection as well as the afteraalth uh agreement. So GIS, now known as High Street, we did complete a full market review of these services and all the programs within the employee benefits package, if you will. So here today to present those findings, answer questions, and get direction on next steps. What is the due dates on each one of these contracts that they have to be renewed?

So, our contract ends at the end of September. The reason that we're coming before you today is to get a decision to prepare for open enrollment. So, when we go out to market for stopwatch offers, they look at our claims data. And so, the offers from stopwatch that we have today, um, they were good for 15 days, so they expire on August 12th. Okay. And that's for the third party administrator. That is for stop-loss. Stop loss. How about the third party administrator services agreement?

The third party administrator services agreement. Um again the current contract is good through the end of September. Uh they are seeking a decision uh 60 days ahead of renewal. So that would be by the 1st of September or excuse me first. And then we have the consultant agreement. Correct. There is no change to the consulting agreement. There is no signature required. It was a simple line item to say that no changes are needed. When is when is that current contract play out? The current contract plays out at the end of the year and then there's a clause in there that just says it continues as is unless a change in writing from either party. APA Health, what is that?

Uh we are in the second year of a three-year contract with APA Health. That is our care coordination component and again we're entering the third year of that agreement. So the renewal is more of a formality. But here's a quandry we have. We have uh we met last week on a zoom call with u an insurance provider. Um, and that has promised us that we could save up to $3 million a year on our claims. Now, you know, some of us up here kind of look looking at that with one eye close and others up here are like, okay. Um, but either way, we, you know, we're, and you're fully aware of this, you know, we struggle, uh, our council does to come up with the funds needed to properly fund our insurance program. So, we can't we cannot just ignore an offer like that to us. Um, now that it may come out not to be accurate. I don't know. Nobody up here knows that. But we we're going to sign an NDA that's going to allow them to look into our program and to see if there is that those types of uh monies that could be saved. Um now I know we need to we need to have a third party insurer. Now my recommendation is that we go ahead and and uh approve that today. Um, but the rest of this we should I think we should hold off until we know more about what we're likely to do by the end of the year. Okay. So, my understanding of the alternative offer is that it is a

reference-based pricing solution. I had come before the commissioners in the spring outlining the strategic plan that the employee benefits committee was tasked with adhering to this year. In that meeting, the commissioners voted against exploring reference based pricing as a solution due to the impact that it would have on the members and their families, the employees of the county. So that's why High Street as a consultant to the county did not explore reference based pricing options. Um, and that's why we don't have a applesto apples offer to present before you today. Well, I I think it's a little more complicated than just simply, you know, reference based pricing is my understanding. And it's not to say even if we were told that yes, by looking at your claims, we can save this money. You know, it's not it is not going to be my recommendation that the plan is handed over to them. we'll open it back up and let you and everybody else, you know, submit, you know, proposal once you understand what we're looking at. Um, but at the same time, you know, there's it's going to take them uh, you know, some time as you, as you are probably aware to to look at the data that they need to look at to determine what they can, you know, save us. So, we're going to, you know, we're not going to be able to, we're going to have to keep moving here. So,

um, but I, you know, as far as a consulting agreement, um, Scott, I, you know, I'm not intimately familiar with th with those agreements or contracts. Is there is there out there for us? Yeah, at the end of the year, there's a possibility. Okay. Yeah. Um,

well, my concern is if we're we're trying to do this when we have uh we have our stop loss insurance running out at the end of September. We have our third party administrative services agreement running out at the end of September. And by the way, in that meeting in March, we did vote because I had sent that information from that company to Candace in January. I had forwarded it.

Yeah. We did some formal vetting and Rhonda was called up before. So, the county has been on a reference based pricing plan before and it was not the greatest experience um either financially nor from a member impact perspective. To be very clear, I'm limited in what I can say before a public meeting because of privacy purposes, but we have some very sick people. People on very complex healthc care journeys that we're caring for. And to disrupt that care could be detrimental, particularly without the time and ability to adjust their providers, their treatment plan, and so on.

Yeah, I'm fully aware of that. we've been given insurance that it wouldn't. Yeah. Speaking of the time frame, as you stated, there are certain things that can and cannot say. Um, when employees do not get a denial until 2 weeks after they've started treatment, it doesn't seem like a way to handle situations, right? And and part of High Street's role is to hold our vendors,

but I mean, it was after contacted them the second week of treatment. So, they were denied. There was an instance that was brought to my attention last week on Wednesday that we are working with the teams on. So ATA ultimately doesn't decide. What decides is the summary plan description. It's the legal governing document of the health plan. But the employee is already going through this difficult time trying to find the correct treatment and then to get a denial letter does not put them in a good position. No, I completely understand and you know healthcare as a whole is not perfect. I think many would agree that there are parts to the system. That's an understatement.

Broken. Exactly. So, I'm not here as an advocate for health insurance companies. I'm here as a consultant to the county to help the leadership team make informed choices in the best interest of both the budget and the membership.

Well, if we can just go back um historically for everybody's um reference in January, I had received the same information that the two of you received. I forwarded it to Candace in our February meeting that we had. Um, we looked at that and Scott suggested that you come to our next commissioner's meeting which was in March and do a strategic plan and that we would take a look at the different models of insurance. And at that time the commissioners voted to hold off on that until second quarter of 2026 looking re relooking at that. And so based on the decision of the commissioners in March, you have since followed along the path of what we had agreed to in that meeting. That's correct. And to be clear, I don't advocate for any particular insurance company, any particular funding mechanism, any particular network. Again, my role is to keep everyone aware of what's happening in the market, what the different options are, what the pros and cons of each are, and then again ultimately so we can go to market, procure the quotes that the commissioners have expressed an interest in so that we can look at those leading up to renewal and make informed choices on the future of the best.

And I have no problem investigating in this company. I I really don't. I just think that the time frame that we have with our insurance running out and our contracts running out at the end of September, I just don't think that we can have something in place in time.

We're not Yeah, we're not we're not going to let anything run out. Um that's why I asked that, you know, if if these contracts are written in such a way that we can opt out uh pretty much anytime we want with a notice. Well, just just their consulting agreement, not all the underlying contracts. Their consulting agreement has an out at the end of the year. AFTA has the rest of this year and next year. Stop loss, the uh stop-loss and captive is every year. And then the third party, both of those run out in September. Correct.

Right. And the reason that it expires at the end of September and has an October renewal date is because a couple of years ago we said we need to move this from January 1 because we need the numbers in before budgetary season so that again leadership can make informed choices. Now the employees plan their deductibles run on a calendar year. So, the employees won't go through open enrollment until November and their deductibles will reset in January. But again, our contracts were backed up to allow us to have the numbers we need to set the budget ahead of time. So, we said a lot of not good news. I didn't come with only bad news. So, I guess just to to pivot for a moment. So nationally, self-funded insurance plans are trending at a 12 to 15% increase and that's due to partially um you know claims but a lot of the things that we see in the news every day. So you know tariffs, advances in medicine, increase in pharmaceutical costs, increases in prevalence of cancer cases, things of that nature. The renewals that we received are well below the national average of 12 to 15%. So I am excited to report that news. So I know that any increase is a challenge to bear but again we are trending well below national average. So even with our loss ratio at 80% uh we were able to obtain five competitive stop loss offers. We were able to leverage those offers to negotiate a favorable renewal with Berkeley Accident and Health. So if we were to renew UMR, Berkeley stoploss,

Berkeley captive reinsurance as well as APA, uh the overall increase is 9.3% to the total program expected cost for medical and pharmacy. We did look at alternate specific deductible options as well and found that an increase of $25,000 to our specific deductible from $175 to $200,000 uh further reduces our expected program cost to only a 7 12% increase. So we're doing a lot of the things the right way. Um and again after help we're in the middle of a three-year agreement. So that renewal is largely largely procedural.

So Scott, your what is your recommendation that that that the commissioners must approve today? The UMR third party and the stop loss cuz we run out on both of those which is the part of the health insurance program. So I did provide September. Is that correct? Correct. And the stop loss contracted or excuse me the captive re because those go together. Yes.

Our third party which is your for everyone else out there that's your anthems yours those names. Okay. Maybe not exactly those names but third parties for those. Then going to then along with our stop loss which is our uh reinsurance which is those two things go together and those two are expiring in September. Right. As well as the captive reinsurance layer. So we have two reinsurance layers. One is the fat block policy, one is the captive.

Well, my recommendation is that we we we have no choice. We have to renew those or they're going to run out. Um but the rest of this we hold off on. You know, I I understand you when you come and tell us that, you know, it's only it's only going up 7% or 8%. Which is below industry standards, that doesn't help us. We, you know, we are on a trajectory with the cost of this insurance program. It's not sustainable. It's just not not with the current, not with our current current uh you know, resources available to county government. So we we owe it to everybody that we roll up our sleeves and get creative here. Even if it means that somebody gets, you know, inconvenienced o, you know, over it. And my recommendation to you is if you you want to be part of that, they get creative. But we've had the same pro the same uh uh company that's been managing this for us for what eight years.

Uh no, so we made a move from reference based pricing. Uh we made a move uh to UMR and to Berkeley uh because of the savings because of the increased access to data and transparency. I'm talking about GIS. Oh, for GIS um roughly 5 six years. I'd have to go back. No, you've been you've been here longer than that. Okay. You've been here longer than that, but ne neither, you know, five or six years where the state years. Yeah.

And rest assured, Commissioner Vicks, like I'm a Porter County resident. I pay taxes here. My children go to school here. I have a vested interest in making sure that this is a great place for people to live, work, and play. That's why we have a three-year strategic plan aimed at optimizing the employee benefits program. And anytime the commissioners receive an email about a crosscontainment strategy or a new thing in the market, we encourage you to send that to us. We we're not hiding anything. We want to evaluate everything. We want our program to be bulletproof. And where it's found to not be bulletproof, we want to make changes. And a great example of that is our analysis of the pharmacy benefit manager that we did. We are in essence firing Optimx in favor of Prime Therapeutics because of the analysis that my team ran and we found that move yielding $747,000 in savings to the county. We also had American Fidelity come in to do the dependent verification audit where we found some people who were uh dependents who were ineligible to any longer be on the county health plan and we assisted in removing those individuals in favor of their own employer coverage or whatever the the result was which yielded about another $160,000 in savings. So I mean we have found about a million in savings. Um, and any self-funded plan, the bulk of the spend is claims driven. So, the expected increase is just that, it's expected. But if these strategies perform as anticipated and as expected, then we could actually see less of an increase. But we need to give you guys a number to go off of budget-wise and that's where the actuaries at the staff plus firm come in to give us that example. Yeah, I understand and I appreciate the work that you guys have done, but it to me the chair, you know, from my chair, it

looks like we take take one step forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back and so on. And it just we are really in a position now where we have to really think out of the box here to see if there is a smarter, more efficient way of doing this. And um that does that does GIS can be part of that. very well. Maybe I I don't know. But I But if I've got a company coming to us and saying, "We can save you $3 million." It would be irresponsible of us to say, "No, we're not interested."

I completely agree. And that's why when Barb brought it to me in the spring, I said, "Hey, is this a path you guys want to explore? Here's the pros, savings, here's the cons, right?" And we talked through some of those. And again, Rhonda came up to explain what her experience had been. So, I'm an insurance nerd. I love, you know, finding these things and optimizing programs and I just encourage anytime there's an idea or an email like certainly you're welcome to bring it to us. Also understand if you need to engage other parties to make sure you're doing your due diligence.

Well, we we'll do our due diligence for sure. Uh so what's the board's pleasure here? Well, I move that we approve the third party administrator services agreement as well as as the stop loss plus cap captive reinsurance agreement. I'll second that. We have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Okay. Thank you. Memorial opera house area. Final pay in the amount of $54,1635. Morning. Good morning. How are you guys?

And what is that for? This is their final pay there. This is closing it out. Is that the last? Should be the last one. Last of all of them. There's one more for retainage. Final for the MO. Okay. And we're budgeted to cover all this still. Entertain a motion. Motion to approve. Second. Have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. Those both say sign. Motion approved. Jail.

Uh Jail item number one is an escro agreement between First Merchant Bank and Porter County Board of Commissioners um for Gary Construction. This is the same thing we did on the highway. basically holding the retainer at the bank. Um they get to make a little interest on it. Just something a lot of contractors do. A motion. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed same sign. Approve. Scott, can we do two through seven together? Yes. What? Okay. You want to go ahead and read those?

Yeah. Uh, Gary Construction payoff number three in the amount of $137,218. Plechner Interiors pay up number two in the amount of $3,21955. Uh, Stafford Smith payoff number two in the amount of $78,39851. Effie Moran payoff number three in the amount of $78153460. Quality Control Systems payout number two in the amount of 400 $493,72624. H&T Electrical Services payout number three in the amount of $26,3152.

Motion to approve. Second. Uh we have a motion as well as a second for approval of items 2 through 7. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Don't buy a jail. They're expensive. Highway department. Highway department. Um, this first line item, the area of construction payoff number eight, it should be in the amount of $34,546.18. 41 is Oh, okay. Sorry. I had $34,556 18. Correct. 304546.8. Okay, go ahead and read all of those.

Yep. Uh, Golf Incorporated, pay off number five in the amount of $30,210. Uh, EC Pavilla payoff number one in the amount of $96,44067. Kleener Interior payoff number six in the amount of $69,300.17. Built Fire Protection Protection payoff number four in the amount of $60,147.83. Bloomfield Mechanical payoff number six in the amount of $45,9147. Circle R mechanical payoff number 11 in the amount of $85,74510. Circle R electric payoff number seven in the amount of $29,22082. Motion to approve.

Second. We have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Are we still we still on our we're still on our target date of completion on that? Yeah, we Barb and I just walked back there. We will looked over the milestone. So, we're hoping here in the second week of September to roughly turn over the administration building to um to the highway department and in September. Yeah. Okay. When are you going to start uh demolition of the As soon as we get them moved, everything's dialed in, their data is up and running, we'll start demolition of the taking form. I drove by Friday, I think. What's that?

I drove by the site Friday. It was really taking form. So, you'll see uh the masonry on the front of the administration center will be done here probably in a week. So, that'll move out. Site utilities are going in. Nipkco's been out there. Water's going to get turned out here. So, I think we've got a hot tap scheduled this week. So things are taking place. Good. Good. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Porter County Museum, Kevin Paser. There he is. I didn't even see him said there. Hi, Kevin. Good morning, commissioners.

You're requesting permission to act as co-chair for the official city of Alfareo semiquintentennial. And uh so America 250 is probably the easiest thing to say. uh you know I uh was asking for this permission but I thought also knowing we're coming up on the 190th anniversary of our own county if there was somebody sort of coordinating that effort and given my role with the museum and as county historian I'd be willing to offer my services to do that as well. Well we we spoke on the phone.

Yes. And uh you know I had spoke on a couple of different occasions with uh our facilities director Joe Rosati. You with us Joe? Uhhuh. All right. And uh I think it's a wonderful idea that you're involved uh knowing your organizational skills. I just ask you to work with Joe. Sure. uh you know when it comes to doing anything to our buildings or to our properties here in downtown and uh you know tying it into whatever Valpo is doing as long as it's not going to cost us. Sure. So but uh wonderful. Absolutely. And thank you for offering. My pleasure. We did not have anybody internally that was going to take that off.

I wondered I thought there might be a line and I would at least get into the back of the line with the hopes I could do it. Now I I have prepared a 75 minute video slideshow but I see that the TV wait until the next I don't know I don't know if I let you plug plug I thought it might be intentional that they were on but thank you so much Kevin for reaching out and offering I really appreciate it I think it's going to be extraordinary having you leading that charge my my pleasure to do so 250 years is such a deal. Yes, it is. A pretty big deal, too. So, well, thank you. I don't think we need a motion for that. Okay.

Unless you guys want to make it one motion to approve. Second. We have a motion as well as uh an approval uh an approval uh to make uh Kevin Pazar uh as acting uh co-chair of the official city of Alarezo Sim. Okay. Semiquen Samuel. Yeah. American 250 and America's 250 festival. So, okay. Thank you.

Motion approved. Thank you. Health department carry. We have an ordinance establishing non-reing fund number 8942 for Geminis Corporation grant for autism elopment kits and three safe centered classes fund first reading. Do you want to very quickly tell us what that is? Sure. So, we are seeking some local funds um for some of the programming that we had begun offering with um some of our Health First Indiana funding. So, this is that it's funding from Geminis and it will go to um help to offset um the cost for the states that are classes for those who are not able to afford it. Uh and then also to fund our autism or kit for um those who are referred to us and qualify for those as well.

Okay.

All right. In order for us to do that, uh, I must, uh, close the commissioner's meeting and open the public meeting, which I have just done. And I will ask, uh, does anybody, uh, oppose creating this ordinance, please step forward. Anybody opposed to the board of commissioners approving this ordinance, please step forward. Third and final request, anybody opposing the commissioners to consider creating this ordinance, please step forward. Seeing none, does anybody like to come forward and speak in favor of this ordinance? Second call, does anybody like to come forward to speak in favor of this ordinance? Third and final call was does anybody care to come forward to speak in favor of this ordinance? Seeing none, I'll close the public meeting. Open back up to the commissioner's meeting. What's your pleasure?

Commissioner motion to approve. Second. I have a motion as well as an approval uh as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos say sign. Motion. All right. We have a new friendly face here. Who is this?

Uh this is Matt Paul. uh our new Porter County Health Administrator uh that was selected after 18 applicants, 10 interview 10 interviews and two final interviews. Um he brings uh decades of management experience, food services experience, uh vast knowledge of public health and hopefully the same enthusiasm and charisma as Carrie to uh fill in those shoes. But um currently he's working with Carrie uh to as she mentors him in the role and um introduces him to all all the departments we work with. So

welcome. Without further ado, nice to meet you again. Very excited. I appreciate it. All right. We have an ordinance establishing non-reverting fund 89 number 89. Oh, wait. did that. I'm sorry. Some reason I thought there was two last facilities department one and just go down the list. Please don't take your time.

No. Um Scott, can we do like one through four and six through seven together? No. Okay. Go ahead. So, we have the additional electrical and ceiling work for victim's assistance at the courthouse with K2 construction in the amount of 31 $3,14716 to be paid from facilities budget.

Just curious, why did this come about? Um the prosecutor's office wanted additional outlets in the front area and they wanted the ceiling grid changed out. We kind of agreed with them that that needed to get done because it was um wet. It was what? It was wet. The ceiling grid. Yeah. There was some condensation that was dripping on the ceiling grid. So, we had the ceiling grid and some of the ceiling tile removed and replaced out.

And did you remedy the problem that's causing that so we don't have it again? Um, yes. Um, but there's still going to be condensate because we have a vent pipe that goes up through the the ceiling there. So, we're going to have to do some configuration and put some masonry work in there to get that fixed. Um, but that might be a little bit more expensive. That's on our radar, though.

Well, don't you think we should fix that first before we replace those ceiling valves? Yeah, the most it happens mostly in the winter. So, that's on our radar to fix here in the fall. Um, and it's when the the heat and the cold kind of mix in that area, but it's it's been a longstanding problem there. So, we will we are going to get that addressed as far as some masonry repair that we're going to be doing there this fall. Well, I could go with the additional electrical, but I would like to hold up on the ceiling until we have that problem remedied. I just don't want to have to keep replacing those feelings. No, I would agree with that. Motion. Motion to approve.

Second. Uh, hold on. You're going to have to You're going to have to um describe specifically what you Okay. I move that we approve the additional e electrical work for the victim's assistant suite at the courthouse. Is it K2 construction? Yes. With K2 construction. And that amount would be what do you know? Oh, it would be the the whole amount. The majority of the work was basically for the electrical work. Okay. Is that your motion? Yes. We have a second. Second. We have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I.

Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Item two. So, we have annual agreement for the alarm system for the inspections for the uh county sheriff's jail um with Ryan Fire Protection in the amount of 15,423. Motion to approve. Second. I have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Item three, the proposal for uh building and roof wash with for the Chesterton Ambulance garage with no scrub pressure washing in the amount of $1,550. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I.

Those oppos. Motion approved. Item four. So, we have an installation of a gutter and downspout at the sheriff's garage uh with Southshore Framing Company. I I'll see in the amount of $3,000 to be paid from facilities. Motion to approve. Second. Have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. Those opposed same sign. Motion approved. So we have uh Spalding uh tree service to remove trees at the juvenile detention center and the Chesterton Ambulance garage in the amount of 12,500. This will be paid from the facilities budget and the 2024 bond fund for the JBC. Motion to approve. Second.

We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. If those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Six. Next item is a crown er. This is for the quarterly uh generator inspections for the following facilities. Uh total amount $8,274 for the year. Can I just ask what the difference is between this and the next one that you have? Sure. So these are for the quarterly inspections which are the inspections that are required. They do a load testing and all of that as as a process out of that. They're not doing maintenance. The next part of that is the maintenance portion. Okay. Motion to approve. Second.

We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. This is for the bannual generator uh service inspection or service maintenance uh for the generators um at the following facilities. 19,000 um 100 I'm sorry 400 $42.72. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed same sign. Motion approved.

Admin building. So the next item is we had uh two quotes for the hydraulic oil replacement for uh both elevators here at the admin building. Um the total amount uh submitted by urban elevator was $8,598 service and repair service and repairs $18,375. Our recommendation is for urban elevator services and they're both going to do the exact same thing and the quarters are different. Yep. Um it's not surprising. We had a replacement part at 157, you may remember, not too long ago. Um, and it was significantly different cost for the same thing.

I move that we approve uh the request to have urban elevator service uh provide the hydraulic oil replacement in both elevators at the admin building. Second at the cost of $8,5980. Um, all those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved.

So, we received um three of the um quotes for um joint sealant replacement here at the Edmond building um recommending that we go with the lowest one, which is restore works masonry for 148,000. Motion to approve the restore works masonry restoration at 148,000. Second. We have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved.

Collections department. The next two items are for the additional appropriations for fund 1120 for the insurance restoration building account uh 3620. Um this is for 385,000 in appropriations. Um this is for insurance funds. These aren't additional tax dollars, but these are to appropriate those funds so that way we balance out at the end of the year. Motion to approve. Second. Motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved.

Next item is for the 1.5 million for the same thing, but this is for the um property management or excuse me personal property, business property. Let we we have a request here for an additional appropriation to fund 1120 insurance restore buildings account 4550 personal property restore in the amount of 1,500,000. This is an insurance refund from Travelers Insurance for water damage at 157 Franklin Street. Entertain a motion. Motion approved. Second. We have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I.

Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. The next item is for the fire alarm system for the Porter County Election Department with Ryan Fire Protection um in the amount of $23,961 to be paid from the insurance fund. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. Item four. Next item is for request for additional work for replacing the wall due to water damage at the election department with softshore framing in the amount of $2,000 to be paid from the insurance fund. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I.

Those opposed same sign. Motion to approve. 157 Franklin. So, uh, Western Waterproofing, this is for a contract for the repairs to the basement 157 Franklin, the amount of 70,546. contract was not uh ready for approval at your previous meeting, but we did agree to select them as the the contractor for this. Motion to approve Western Waterproofing in the amount of $70,546. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I.

I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved. So the next item is for a proposal for Cobra Services to install two air conditioner units in the basement at 157 Franklin in the amount of $7,47310 cents to be paid in 2024 bond. This is for the um there is currently no air conditioning or humidity control in the basement. This resolves that whole problem down there and it's really important that we have that because we're going to have election equipment back down there. Right. I make a motion propose Cobra Services LLC to sell two air conditioner units in a basement of 157 Franklin in the amount of $7,47310. Second.

Have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed same. Motion approved. Ite. The next item is for the additional work for the basement flooring at by Jojo Epoxy and floor in the amount of $4,000 to be paid for the insurance. And do you want to explain why this is important that we're doing the epoxy down there?

Yeah. So, what this does is basically encapsulates your concrete floor of the basement. Um, so that way you're not getting moisture wicking up from the bottom. Um, but it also provides a a much cleaner and neater surface uh for the basement for anything to be um stored down there. I'll make a motion for the additional work to basement flooring. the Jojo epoxy floor carry the amount of 4,000 we paid out of 2020 for fun. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved.

The next item is a request for the purchase for the uh Bon 7.5 ton rooftop unit air conditioner heater uh for the um 157 Franklin. Um, this is for uh Roger Supply in the amount of $10,2682. We paid from the bottom. And we just did some air conditioners up there.

We did uh last year we replace one rooftop unit. This is the other rooftop unit, which is not failed, but it is failing. So, we already knew that was part of the bond process. We were going to get it replaced. We're just kind of moving that kind of up the scale since that's kind of tore up right now. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed say sign. Motion approved.

So you have for you today two or the phase 2 window rental maintenance at 157 Franklin. Um this will be paid from the bond fund. Um our recommendation is restore works for 148,000. Did they do phase one? Yeah, that was done out of the AR fund, right? But they were the contractors that did phase restore work was the one that did phase one. Okay. And have we seen a noticeable difference since uh we did page one?

They're not leaking. It is noticeable and those windows. So I very eager to get the rest of those done cuz some of those still are leaking. Well, I move that we approve uh the restore works commission restoration quote for 148,000 for page two window and maintenance at 157 frame. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed sign motion approved. JDC. So proposal for a new vanity and counter for the JDC restroom and magistrate's office of Greystone. the amount of $1,52321. Motion to approve. Second.

There's a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos say sign. Motion approved. So next item is for proposal for additional work for the erosion control mitigation for the JDC with Horus's landscape in the amount of 445250. As you may know, Hor's landscape's already begun um the project over there. This is additional work that we we scoped out after we got through portion of it, but we do have we're still well under what we kind of budgeted for that project. Motion to approve. Second. A motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposite three.

So the next item is for the fire alarm inspection for the JDC with Ryan Fire Protection in the amount of $2,949. Motion to approve.

Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed say sign. Motion approved. So we solicited for three quotes for the phase three uh carpet at the juvenile detention center. Um this would be paid from the 2024 bond. Our recommendation however is to go with value flooring even though they are $1,6341 higher because they've already done phase one and phase two. So we're trying to keep things consistent with the work that's already been done there. um knowing that some of the tile that's going to be removed is actually embedded in mortar. Um and that's going to require possibly additional work. Um so we would anticipate any change orders from anyone else on this. Questions? Motion. No questions. Motion to approve.

Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. the 911. So, next item is for um replacement of batteries for the 911 UPS system. Um this is to be paid from the 2024 bond. We do have free quotes. Those were provided to you. Um our recommendation is to go with Crown Er. Um they were the lowest uh person to quote this project for 21,49356. And what is the life expectancy on these batteries, Joe? Uh 5 years is typical. And these need to be on a a cycle to be replaced. So you're going to get that into the working UPS systems.

And we actually have now have a part- timerr um from the university that's going to be putting our together RPM schedules. So motion motion to approve. Second. I have a motion as well as a second to select Crown Bam $21,49356 uh. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed same sign. Motion approve. So, the final item on here is for the proposal from Crown Ram for maintenance and cleaning um and testing for the 911 UPS system. Um this is for $6,73.32. Motion to approve. Second.

We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion to approve. Thank you. That's all. Thank you. Development storm water management. Mr. table. Start with item one. Since we don't have my PowerPoint, I will hand out my slideshow, please.

Do you have a fair one for Thank you. That's for later. Okay, we'll go as quickly as possible for you. First on the agenda is an ordinance for an amendment to the unified development ordinance establishing the minimum requirements for the development, construction, maintenance, and decommissioning of personal solar energy systems and unincorporated quarter county. second reading. Uh we presented to you or the planning commission with a a favorable recommendation. You heard it at a public hearing at your last meeting. This is to uh to uh iterate this is only for personal consumption. It could be residents. It could be businesses or school complexes etc. They're not allowed to sell it on the open market or any kind of commercial use. So it's your pleasure what you would like to do with it today.

Question motion question. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I.

Those opposed saying sign. Motion. It is now awarded and we have six applications in the queue ready to be approved today. Second is an ordinance for amendment to the unified development ordinance revising chapter 5 which is deals with the exceptions for barn height specifically section 5.20 first reading where we're having um not issues but we need consistency. There is a provision in there for exceptions if you can prove an agricultural use and agriculture use can be wide variety of things. We've been very generous with that. But there's some cases where they're coming in, they say they're planting a 20 tree orchard or they're planting a bigger garden than a typical garden or things like that and they're coming in and asking for barn heights that can go as much as 50 ft. Now in the agricultural areas that's not so much of a problem. They got you generally generally speaking they have lots of room and lots of space to do that and they can absorb that height. But when you start getting into the residential classifications of property or adjacencies to these residentials, then it becomes these things become larger than life right next to houses that are much smaller. So what we're recommending, and I have to bring it up, is that the exception before in the UDO applied to all zoning districts, whether they're residential, agricultural, commercial, industrial, etc. And what this amendment does is say that they are allowed only in the A1 and A2 automatically if they can prove such. If someone wants to do it on another property, we can deal with them on a case-byase basis in front of the board of zoning appeals. So the right hasn't been extinguished. It's just that we

want to make sure that we got a consistent way of dealing with these things and if they don't meet the UDO, they still have that avenue they go to ECA and make their case. That in a nutshell is what we're trying to accomplish here. Okay. Any questions by the board? We'll close the commissioners meeting, open up to a public meeting. Does anyone like to come forward to speak against this ordinance? Second call. Is anybody like to come forward to speak against this ordinance? Third and final call. Would anyone like to come forward to speak against this ordinance? Would anyone like to come forward to speak in favor of this ordinance? Second call. Would anyone like to come before the board of commissioners and to speak to us in favor of this ordinance? Third and final call. Would anyone like to come before us and speak in favor of this ordinance? Seeing none, I'll close the public meeting, open back up to commissioners meeting, and entertain a motion. Motion to approve.

Second. We have a motion as well as a second for approval in the first reading. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos same sign. Motion approved.

Thank you. The next one probably going to take a little time. That's what the handout was. I handed all you. I apologize to everybody in the audience when we did it. The plan commission. I had a nice slide presentation to kind of illustrate what we're talking about. And the subject is uh item three, an ordinance for an amendment to the unified development ordinance revising chapters 2, 5, and 12 to include barn dominions on the first reading. The office as of late has got a lot of inquiries on building what's called the barn dominion. If you look at your handout that I gave you on page one, if you go on the web and you type the word barnuminium, this is typically what you see. A lot of them are very attractive looking structures. A lot of them made them from metal. But I wanted to point out just because it's metal doesn't make it a barn dominion. It could be stone, it could be wood, it could be a combination of different materials. If you progress in the slideshow, you go to the second one. Now you're seeing the barn dominion that's also made of metal. But you also see that the appendage, which we call the storage area or the garage com or combined, is much larger. You go to the next slide. Slide three. This is actually was in the unified development ordinance of one of the case studies we looked at in Indiana. I think this was in Newcastle. It looks by all purposes it looks to be like a barn, almost like a dairy barn you'd find in Wisconsin. Quite large and uh multi-story. Starting on page four, I start breaking them down. not only what they look like on the outside from an architectural perspective, but also what they look like from a floor plan. Again, this is stuff that's readily available on the web anywhere where we did the research. As you can see there, it's a fairly attractive building. It's got quite a large spread out from side to side and it's got a storage/g area as you can see in the bottom

leftand corner of that floor plan. So, it's kind of typical of a typical house with a typical garage. Garages used to be one car, twocar garages were common. Then they became three cars. Now we're starting to see fourc car garages in residential neighborhoods. It's very common. On slide five, you're starting to see another uh variation of that. Aesthetically, I wouldn't find it very pleasing, but nonetheless, it does have a fourc car garage. Typically, you'll find in most houses, as I said before. On slide six, now you're starting to see size changes. In slide six, you're seeing that the living space and the storage space are roughly equal in dimensions as far as footprint to the ground. And it's important to note that as we talk about this through the presentation, I'm not so interested. They can be two, three stories. What I'm talking about is the footprint. That's the key distinguishing factor that we'll talk about here in a second. On slide seven, you're seeing now a house. It's a two-story house. It's got some trim to it, but you see start seeing the garage. The garage obviously is greater than 50%. As a matter of fact, I think in this case it's like 65 70% 65% of the footprint space around. Slide eight. This is a presentation that was submitted to this office. As you can see, the area in green represents the storage garage space. The blue represents the first floor. It was roughly 8020 in proportions. The storage space was 80%, the living space was 20% in footprint. And if you look at the picture and we'll see some elevational views, you can see the thing is really quite tall. The thing to remember in our UDO primary structures in residential areas, the maximum height is 35 ft. Accessory structures, we limit them to 20 ft. And there's good reason

for that. When you're dealing with this type of hybrid structure, then they take on the entire height, which is the maximum is 35 ft. If they were in agriculture, they could go 40 ft. Okay? Just by right of being A1 or A2 is 40T tall. So, you can see they'd be quite large. And if you flip to page nine, now you can see some of the pro uh elevational views. The one in the upper left, that's the front. The one to the upper right is the back. The one to the left would be the left side. Front is facing left. And the one to the bottom right facing right. In this particular case, this individual wanted to put the bottom right would be 30 ft off the property line right adjacent to an R1 zoning subdivision. And that height of this barn in this particular instance, I believe, was 33 ft tall. So in response to all that we did a lot of research on the web. We tried to make this as simple as possible. The first thing is to define the barn dominium. Now I don't want people to get caught up with barn dominium. What you see on the web. We're coming up with our own definition that triggers certain things. A barnaminium is a structure that is a home built to resemble a barn or is converted from a barn often with steel metal frame or more conventional facade materials and characterized by an open floor plan, high ceilings with large non-residential utility space that may be used for shop or storage area inclusive of garage. The attached non-resident space of the structure that is greater than 50% of the total structure footprint is a barn. What we're saying here is if you're building something that looks like a barn, it's aesthetically pleasing, as long as the storage garage space does not exceed 50%, they're just going to be

treated just like any other regular residential home. If it does exceed the 50%, then we define it then as a barn dominion. If it is then defined as a barnominium according to our definition, then what we're suggesting is is that it only be applied as a special use exception, meaning it's got to go to the board of zoning appeals and they have to check off boxes based on the criteria we got in the UDO now to say that it qualifies to go. And some of those requirements are that they would by special use exception they' be allowed in the two agricultural A1 and A2 and rural residential uh zoning districts. R1 can be outside what we commonly think of a residential subdivision, but a residential subdivision could be an R1, R2, RL, all those other ones. So we decided rural residential tend to be a lot more open spaces very close to the agriculture. The key is is these things can get really tall. So the more separation as we'll discuss kind of makes kind of baits that tallness when you're next to another use. The other criteria is uh we already talked about the zoning setbacks. A lot of the research we've done, not only did they say even in the cities and towns, they wanted them on the perimeter of the towns adjacent to more agricultural land uses. And we found one county that kind of hinted the same thing that they were generally on agricultural or their lowest density residential, which in our case is our RR, but we're proposing that the front setback be 100 ft, the sideyard setbacks be 100 ft, and the rear yard be a setback of 100 ft. And then at the plan commission meeting, it may not be in the version that's in your packet, plan

commission meeting last week, we clarified to say if one of those setbacks, usually the side or the rear set bar is adjacent to an R1 or higher zoning district, but the setback goes from 100 ft to 200 ft to give that greater separation because usually you're talking about developments that are very densely developed. minimum lot size. It's what applies for agricultural districts. We have a minimum of 10 acres for most agricultural district districts. And then the zoning RR zoning districts, they got to have at least 5 acres. Minimum lot width would be 250 ft cuz if you take the 100t and 100 foot, they leave you 50 foot in the middle to play with as far as the size of your building. The structure height would be as applied to any residential structure for that particular zoning district. As I said before, if they were in a residential RR, it'd be 35 ft. If there are agriculture, it could be as high as 40 ft. And the distribution that the nonresidential utility space portion of the structure cannot exceed 70% of the total footprint area.

Say that again. the total area of the storage/ garage area cannot exceed 70% of the total footprint area. So in other words, and the reason for that is otherwise you'd be building a 800 square ft house garage instead of a house.

You'd be building a barn or garage instead of a house. So we thought that was a nice cut off meeting. Um, again, if anybody else wants to come in, they can always go to the board of zoning appeals. If they got a large R1 piece of property, there are our one pieces of property that could be 20 acres in size. They still have the option they can appear before the board of zoning appeals and have approval of that and make their case. So that in a nutshell is a summary of what we're proposing and what the plan commission voted unanimously to forward with a favorable recommendation. Have you in your department have you mapped any of the other farm dominium farm dominiums that we already have in Porter County against this to see would they work? Would they have been approved or not approved?

The answer to that is by and large yes. There have not been that many of them. Um I know the paper reported in plan commission both my caller and I said six or seven been approved but when we I I didn't get a chance to address that but we did look at those and some of them did even make the 50% rule and some of them did have in excess of 100 seat with the exception of one they all had a minimum setback of at least 100 ft. So I would say of the six or seven, the vast majority of them probably wouldn't be defined as far simply because their garage storage area did not exceed 50%. And what would they have been classified? Just regular residential.

All right, I'm going to close the commissioner's meeting and open up public meeting. We are hearing hearing a first reading of of uh an ordinance for the amendment of the unified development ordinance revising chapter 2 5 and 12 to include barnaminiums. This is the first reading. Anyone like to speak in favor of this ordinance, please come forward. Second call. Anybody would like to speak in favor of this ordinance, please come forward. Third and final call. Anybody like to speak in favor of this ordinance, please come forward. Anyone like to speak against this ordinance, please come forward. Second call. Anybody like to speak? You don't have to go second call. You already got some. I guess I don't understand all the details on this, but it sounds to me like I have a 5 acre lot and it's only 165 ft wide. I couldn't build this on my lot because of setback requirements. Is that true?

That is correct. So I I don't understand what the county is thinking they're doing. You know, if I have a a a 5 acre lot that's aund 115,500 ft deep and 165 ft wide, I'm in a very non residential area. It's it's open property. I should be able to build whatever I want in the middle of my property. And it sounds to me like based on setbacks, this would stop me from doing. Is that why you're here? Yes or no? What do you mean yes and no? That's answer.

Yes and no is like you let me ride the fence here. No,

it's 100. You said a 100 foot setback on the sides. I can meet the the requirement front and I can meet the requirement from the back, but I can't meet a 100T setback on the sides of my lot. And if I want to build a nice big barn, I don't care if it has any residential in it or not. If I want to build a big ass barn, I should be able to build it right there on my lot. Let's Let me Let's clarify. Don't Please don't do that. Let's clarify. If you're putting a house in it and it's a barn is all we're talking about. If you want to build a barn, I don't care what the structure is. If I want to have partial house, partial barn and I'm build it right in the middle of my favorite 5 acre lot, I should be able to do that. I am in a very non subdivision type area. Okay. Not subdivision. So you to me I can understand what you're saying. If somebody wants to bring in and build that kind of structure in a in a in a you know 1 acre lot subdivision area they can never meet any kind of setback requirements but you know it's not it's my lot's big

and you have the opportunity through the board of zoning appeals to still get that. I don't care. I I think that's ridiculous that the county's trying to restrict people that own decent sized pieces of land to what they can build on their property based on some crazy assessment of of what you're setting up there. Well, you know, it's not so crazy because the case I'm and hear me out case I'm talking about this person's got 20 acres and what they want to do put it within 30 ft of other residential property. Is it a square 20 acres or is a big long rectangular 20 acres? I mean I you know I don't I don't understand. Sure. So what they've got 20 acres of land

and they could put it anywhere they wanted.

There's decent way to set foot setback requirements that are okay. But, you know, 100 ft, I couldn't make 100 ft for my size. But, you know, that's ridiculous that I couldn't build a decent size barn on my property and put a little residential area in there for, you know, I don't know, maybe my for my son to live in someday or any family member to come and stay with me and put a little residential area in there. Now you're saying that it's restricted based on setbacks and all this other stuff which I think applies more to a subdivision atmosphere and not for somebody that owns 5 acres like I do. Okay.

So I mean that's I object big time to this. I think this is crazy. Uh for the record your name.

My name is Joe Sparks. I live at 432 West 100 North in Valkarezo and I, you know, I bought property because I wanted to be able to build what I want to build. You know, years ago, I built a barn on my property. I came to the county for a permit. I asked them what my setback was for the side and they told me like 3 or 5 ft. So, I built the barn. So now he's telling me basically that if I had that barn and I wanted to build it today, I couldn't do it based on this requirement. So I don't know what are the setbacks for a barn currently. Not a barn to

I don't think they're 3 or 5 ft except in the RL zoning district. I have the sheet that's back in my desk, but think R1 is anywhere from Hang on, let me finish. 15 to 20 ft for accessory structure seems pretty common to me up to 30 in some other places for an accessory structure. And we're not talking an accessory structure here. They're free to put accessory structures on the property list according to whatever we currently have. I understand what he's saying, but you know, hey, you know, to me, if I wanted to build a barn slash, you know, apartment area and on the size lot that I have and I want to put it right in the middle of my lot, I should be able to do it. And he's telling me I could based on a setback requirement that the countyy's saying, "Oh god, you got to be 100 ft from the size of your property." I'm next to the arburetum. You know what's arburedum going to say? Nothing. They've got all kinds of structures all over their place. So, I'm right next to the stupid arboritum over there. I mean, hm. What's is there a difference in where my sides are? You know, does it open up to an arboritum? Now, it's, you know, now it's a whole different thing cuz the back of my lot and the side of my lot opens up to the arboritum. I mean, It's I just think for you guys to vote on something like this in this short of a little shedding I find to be ridiculous

and I think it would affect me down the road if I ever wanted to do something. Not saying that I do, but there's I mean, how many people in here really realize that this is being presented? How many people in the county realize that something like this is being presented? people that own property in the county. I guarantee none. That's why we live stream our meetings. What's that? That's why we live stream our meetings commission

and and and it's brought up in front of the plan commission and this we didn't even have the the the show presentation to I I had trouble really understanding. I had to really listen closely to what he was saying. And you know that would that would screw me on my life. I know that for a fact. If I want to build a barn dominium, I mean, I understand where you're going. You don't want that stuff in residential residential subdivision areas. I don't care if they have 2 acres of a lot. You don't want to have them build something like that in the middle of a 2acre lot in a residential subdivision. Different story. I think the whole issue could be addressed by what what what you own property-wise and where is it. And that's why

not not not you know that we're not in a big wide open residential area and I and I Joe I think Mr. Jel was trying to explain that that's why well I think but based on his requirements that he's proposing to you but that doesn't mean you can't get a variance. I I shouldn't have to apply for a variance. Well, according to you, you you stated and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the mean right now, I wouldn't have to apply for a variance, but if he puts that in if you guys enact that, then I'd have to come to you and beg for a variance and then I'm at somebody else's discretion. I think that's ridiculous when I own as much property as I Well, you say that you you should be able to build whatever you feel like building.

No, I I should be able to build a nice big barn. Yeah. right in the middle of my lot, you know, give me a setback, put it 25 ft. I mean, if I I'm in a big open residential area and if I'm 25 ft off my side property, go I should be able to build a nice big barn, you know. Now, I mean, you can have height requirements tell me I can't build more than 35 ft. That's fine. You know, I I agree with some of what he's saying, but you know, just because it classifies as a barn dominion, you know, I have a little residential area built into a barn. All of a sudden, as a property owner, I'm I'm screwed. I can't build it because of the setback requirements that somebody's setting.

No, I don't think that's what he's saying. I think that's exactly what he's No, I think he laid out a protocol that has to be followed in order for you to get a variance to do that. You know, all all all all all all these lots are different. They all they all have their own individual characteristics. But if you got a house on one side of you and you're saying, I look, I should be able to build this however I want to build a house. Is that what you're saying? As a I'd be wanting to build my big barn right up next to somebody's house. I don't I don't know. You may not want to, Joe. I don't know either.

But you can turn around and sell your property tomorrow and the guy that buys it from you wants to. I think that's what Mr. J was saying. There's certain, you know, there's certain pro protocols we must go through to protect everybody.

I think you need to take a look at some of the property that's in the county. There's a lot of big 5 acre lots that are long and skinny and uh and you know, hey, all of a sudden now you sucking 100 foot setback requirements on the sides of the lot to be able to build a barn a barn doinium. That person is messed over. They can't they can't build it because you got to or without having to come in and ask for a variance and and go with that. That's that's all I'm saying. It's I mean to me that that setback requirement is ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. But uh yeah, enough. I've said enough. I I don't like the issue. I think uh what's being proposed here I I understand what he's saying. You know, if I want to build a a threestory barnaminium and I only own 2 or 3 acres and I'm in a subdivision, yeah, I shouldn't be able to build that at all. I mean that should be for residential house and there's already requirements for what a residential house is, you know. So, um, barnuminium shouldn't be allowed in residential subdivisions. Maybe that's a better thing to say, but any property or property owners, I I think that might be something that needs to be reconsidered overall. So, thank you very much.

Thank you, Joe. Uh, I forgot where it went. Is it the second request? I release the second request of those not in favor of the sorted please step forward. You would like to speak.

Hi, my name is Mary. Oh ho ho ho ho. Please come forward so we can we can't hear you. Please give us your name and your address.

My name is Mary Willis. I live in sub northwest. If house for 20 years a subdivision that backs up to land. We always tell the buyers, we don't know what's going to go in there. This is at your risk. This should not be you shouldn't be punishing the people that own the acreage behind the subdivision. And that's what I think the setback is. It's just too extreme. A 20 foot step back would be funny on time especially because there are like he said these long parcels in the border county and I think that's just it's

after the meeting I know I couldn't do the slideshow come see me after the meeting I'll show you an example what you would

matter if as what you're asking them to do because people who live in the subdivision may have sub restrictions don't have to worry about You don't have to worry about the people that own land or have family land that's been divided by the family. You are you are an island care that you're going to they can come ask for special permission. You're still hindering them to do what they want to do with their land. And then you say 30 ft. Well, is that two? Is it a walk out basement? Would that be considered part of a 30 ft or is it 30 ft above grade? You're you're just not I I feel this is very

after the meeting I'll show you the slideshow. No really doesn't matter. What you're asking is you know what you're asking us is wrong to do. Look we will talk long and hard on this. This took us six hearing. This took us 6 months to investigate. Can all you look at our zoning map? If you look at our zoning map, then look at study it very carefully and you'll find R1 next to RR next to egg. It's all over the place.

To a real real estate agent, I just want to be clear on if you want to speak, you speak after her. You come up here and give us your name. Okay. I I know it's not backyard. Didn't they do it with one? I don't remember why, but I thought they did. So, if you did have residential, you do have rural residential. We have five res six residential classifications. R1. Well, they said changed what they're doing. So, that's what the county does, but um it's still you know who's living. You sell a home that has land behind it. You don't know what's going on. You guys wanted to build a data center behind some houses and that was no problem. Didn't care how many.

It still didn't matter to those people that you were going they were going have no company. Well, first of all, set record straight. We haven't approved anything on a data center. We gave no indication.

I just feel it. you are you are hurting people the land owners and I don't think that they're here to do that you're trying to come way too too far I will make something clear that a lot of this has come a lot of this has come up because of complaints from residents having this sort of thing built next to them that's part of it okay part of it was when we had our public hearing listening to one at the BCA we did because they work so close, so tall next to these other places. And what I was trying to say about the p the quilt work pattern we've got in our zoning districts all over the county, you can't find one sizefits-all for every case. Now, every piece of property you cannot go build cuz like the gentleman said, he's got a skinny lot that's very deep. We got a lot of those, too. And see, some people forget barnaminiums. They're coming in, they're monitoring these big scrolling things, but they can't do it because it's just so deep because you also got your width depth ratio to deal with too according to our code. So, we're trying to find we're not trying to prohibit anybody to do it. We're just trying to be selective to make sure it fits in the fabric of the adjacencies. There's one thing our code says. Not only does it say it spells out this is how you develop this is the criteria for this zoning district and how you develop setbacks heights all that but it also says in chapter one which is often goes on red that we have to make sure that we're uh making compatible land uses and structure uses and adjacent properties. on the case of the gentleman coming up. He doesn't have anybody living next to him. He's RR. I realize it's a skinny lot. I can't We

can't design something that fits all cases. The Board of Zoning Appeals is there and he can from what he told me today if I was a BCA member, I would feel very uh positive about what his condition would be. Now, people saying, "Well, no, I got to go do this and I'm not going to get it." Well, we it's so wide and varied. We we we really did we worked 6 months putting this together and we did a lot of research online. We've got a lot of inquiries. We looked at some of the structures and as I told you before, a lot of them wouldn't even qualify in the definition of barn dominion. You're talking about that exceptional group where the barn is monster size big with a house component. That's all we're addressing here. Everything else is still open. according to our current.

Okay. Third and final call. Anybody like to speak against this ordinance, please come forward. Seeing none, I close the uh public meeting. Open back up to the commissioner's meeting. Entertain a motion for the first reading. Motion to approve.

I second. And I'm going to second it because I understand Mr. Jabbo's position that this is a very small subsection of the request for buildings in our county and because we do have the ability to go to the BZA for an exception and I'm hoping Mr. Sparks that when you do that doesn't satisfy me at all. That doesn't I I can't believe you folks and I know that some of you own property. So I can't believe you're you're you're even considered. So do whatever you want.

Well, please be aware of a first meeting. We are approving the first reading. The sec is Well, Joe, I I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you, partner. The second reading is when the ordinance is either voted down or approved. We're ju we're just he's come before us asking us to receive this business. That's what this board is doing with now. I know you don't like it and you're entitled to that. Okay. But we have we have a process here that we we have to follow. So yes, ma'am. Can you ask them to modify it? I can't even I can't hear you. Can you ask them to modify it?

We may do that in the second reading. Absolutely. I don't know. We we could we could vote it down for all I know.

Well, I've been up here plenty of times where it was the second reading was voted down. Plenty of times. But we'll he'll have the opportunity to talk to us after this meeting or or the next three weeks. Uh explain, you know, better explaining to what, you know, their purpose is here, what the purpose is here. uh if if if he's not able to do that or won't do that kind of I kind of think this is DOA. Okay. But if he explains it I I will I will tell you upfront I I clearly understand why he's doing it and and if there are special exceptions to everything. This is not to say you can't build on it. You if you make your case that there's an and and the board that you're appearing in front of, you know, that they they they agree with you, then you get the special exception. But if we do nothing, we're we're just every it's we have a problem here and it's growing by the year. So anyway, uh I'll entertain a motion.

You have did motion in a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposing signs motion approve. Item number four.

All right. Middle rings mineral range road over the east arm of the little Calat River which is bridge 150. It's up in the town quarter. Request approval for letting bridge replacement project. Let it out for bids to be received on September 16th, 2025. Title sheets over there for your signature if you approved after the meeting. This is the project in Porter where the bridge was shut down because it was unsafe. originally going to do federal funds. We switched. We're going to do local funds to get expedite the project, get it done, cleaning up, getting last bits of right away and easements, but we should be ready to bid. Unfortunately, this project will continue to be closed, work done hopefully yet this year, maybe demolition. Got to watch for the salmonoid screen.

Okay. But probably next year before it's done. I'll motion to approve. Second. We have a motion as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion to approve. Item number six. Number five. Five on six. County Road 150 South over Cob Creek small structure PR 002. Request advertise for early procurement material. Board motion to approve. Second.

Have a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos same. Motion approved. Item six, request approval of change order one bridge replacement county road 600 north over Salt Creek bridge number 98 $14,000 $120 14,24 increase for dynamic full pile load testing which was which an inter originally was not in the contract that we need recommend approval motion to approve second a motion for approval as well as a second all those in favor say I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion approved.

Item seven, request approval. No, change order number two, bridge replacement on Lindberg Road or Salt Creek, which is bridge one 009, $10,86864 increase for protection of bats, roosting, and structure. That's so we can expedite our work because of the bat season. Recommend approval. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposing sign push approved. By the way, can I just ask a question? When you're saying INDOT will pay 80% of the cost, it's an 8020. What is the amount that you're giving us the 20? No, it's the 100% that pay 80% of that cost. I'm sorry. I should clarify.

Item number eight, request for change order number two. I'm sorry. Change order number three, Marquette Greenway Trail, otherwise known as the Calat Trail, phases five and six, $2,47 $7.7 increase for additional rift revenue for upstream Culver crossing in A7. Motion to approve. Second.

We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposing sign. Motion approved. Last item number nine, request approval change order number four for again the Marquette Greenway Trails/Calat Trail phases five and six $16,852.50 increase for additional mileards at the roadway crossings. That's so cars can't drive up the trail from the roadway. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed same sign. Thank you.

Thanks Mike. Valparezo Events. Katie Pendle, is Katie, you here? There she is. We have a request uh for the gate uh that's located uh on the east side of the county courthouse. Um the lot to be left open on Friday, September 5th. Again, the EMS set up for Popcorn Fest. We'll take this one first. Board, what's your pleasure? Motion to approve. Second.

We have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposing signs. Motion approved. We have a request. This is item number two. A request for the use of parking lot behind the 157 Franklin Street building for handicap parking. The sheriff's department will be monitoring lot access through the day and will work with the 911 dispatch to set aside spaces and ensure key they have parking. Uh also request access to the building roof room to place an antenna for the 2-way radio used on the festival day. The antenna will be placed during the week leading up to the festival. Did you do this last year? I did. Motion to approve. Second.

I have a motion for approval as well as a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, same sign. Motion to approve. A request to place a sign on the courthouse lawn on Labor Day weekend to advertise the festival and schedule of events. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion. Yes, sir. How long does the sign need to be? How long does the sign need to be up? Um, it will be up through festival day and then taken down on probably the Sunday after. So, that's a motion as well as a second for approval. All those in favor say I. I.

Those opposed, same sign. Motion approves. And then the last thing is the Porter County parking garage to determine the fee for the day so we can $20. Thank you very much. Thank you. Take care. Any other matter which may be properly come before the board of commissioners?

My name is Kathy West. I'm from Valzo, Indiana. Yesterday, I contacted Commissioner Jim Bixs to express concern over his public reaction to a social media post mocking mental illness and political differences. He responded not with reflection or leadership, but with this, I am fully aware of your political leanings, and I have no intention of giving you the fight you are looking for. Let me be clear. This was never about picking a fight. I had no intention of being here today. This was about calling out a public official for endorsing a post that mocked people seeking mental health care and for holding political differences. His response unfortunately says a lot about how he sees his role not as a representative of all constituents, but as someone who disregards those who challenge him. Dismissing a genuine concern as political noise is a way to avoid accountability. When a constituent contacts an elected official with a respectful and principled concern, the appropriate response is not personal insult, vague insinuations, or defensive posturing. Dismissing someone as someone like you and claiming to know what I am about without substance reflects far more on his own character than mine. I don't need to justify myself, Mr. Briggs. What matters is that you are a public servant who is accountable to all of your constituents, whether they voted for you or not, and

whether they share your views or challenge them. Mr. Big, you may not want to hear about integrity or accountability from me, but judging by your responses, perhaps you need to. Mental health isn't partisan. Respect isn't partisan. Leadership means being willing to listen even when it's uncomfortable for you.

Well, let me respond to that. Uh, first of all, you have no you have no idea why I like that that post. Number one. Number two, I find it a little odd that you're you're stalking any anything that I app that I approve. Number two is don't do that. Don't Don't do that cuz you won't be here very long. Number two is you you had your time to speak.

No, I'm I'm here to listen to good. Number two is you are not a member of the nasty women's organization. And have you not been in front of this board and and lied to this board about an accusation you made against Commissioner Riggnets about her her receiving donations from a board member and then when I called and then when it was called you were called out on it you looked at me and winked and smiled. I don't have a whole lot of respect for you Cath Kath. I I don't it's not that you know it's it's not that I don't believe you have the right to say what you want to say. you do, but you're you're not going to pull me in to the games that you play. I'll like whatever I feel like liking on on on my uh personal Facebook page. There is nothing I have ever posted on on Facebook that can be considered remotely controversial. Now, if I happen to like something that somebody else posts, so be it. You have no idea why I'm liking it. None. It could be simply I'm just acknowledging that it was sent to me and and and you're you're not going to spin this because my record shows anything uh you know to the shows everything to the contrary of my my you know how I take mental illness in this county as as a public official. So, I know exactly what you're trying to do and I'm not going to I'm not as I said sent you that email. I'm not going to parlay with you with it. I know why you're up here. I know exactly why you're up here to for me. It's not going to care cuz I got to be honest with you. I don't give two hoots what you think. You've already proved to me you can't be trusted.