Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Angelina, would you uh roll call for us, please? Dundes, present. Stevie Miner here. Paul right here. De Matino here. It's not yet here, but he will be joining us soon. Yes. Um, we have our meeting minutes November 17th. So, if we could ask someone 19th or 19th, I'm sorry, 19. Okay. I've reviewed the minutes of November 19th. I find them to be correct and would move that they be approved and accepted. I second that. Need a vote on it.

Roll call vote. Uh, I vote to approve. Approve. Approve.

Approve. [clears throat] Okay, the first item on our agenda tonight is PLZBA 2025 0058. It was 60 113 Street. That's going to be tabled for tonight uh as they have to go to planning first. So, we just wanted to make that for the record. So with that said, we'll skip that down to PLZBA 2025 00547 421425 River Street. Is there someone here would like to uh approach the mic on that? [clears throat and cough] Hello, I'm Jeffrey Goldstone. I'm the architect for the project. Um, I'm Garrett Brown, the owner.

Are you asking for us to present? Yes. Yes, please. We're requesting variances for two things that we proposed on the project. One is the size of a single sign that faces uh west on fourth floor of to I always have to check my addresses of uh 417 which is uh a sign that's not visible from the street but is visible from the bridge. And we're requesting we're requesting that the sign be approved at 60 square feet, which I believe is a 12 foot increase over the 48 square feet that is allowed by the ordinance. Do you have any pictures or anything?

I'm sorry. I I didn't come prepared with photos. I I have the documents that were sent to you and I believe you have copies of and if you want to refer to those documents, you can see on sheet P3 of those documents. We're not in possession of that. We have no documents. I see. Well, I'm more than happy to share the one small copy I have with me. And there's another copy here. K's got some. Looks like I know we brought down five sets on Friday. Excuse me. Yeah, I'll take a look. [clears throat]

This sign, it's at the top of the building. That's that's a photograph actually of what it looks like currently. And that's the sign we're proposing after we put an awning in, new doors, a fourth floor. So, the the original is painted on the the brick. Is this painted on or is this an actual sign? Okay. This one is considerably larger than this one in terms of square footage above the awning as opposed to it's much less deep than the one that's there. And we're seeing this from the river, correct? You're seeing that floating over the river. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not lighted. We do propose that it be lighted. What kind of lights we talking about?

Uh we haven't made a final determination. We would like to light them from behind the letters, but we could we could certainly light them with some sort of uh actually I'm sorry I don't we have rules about lights? We did not. I take that back. That was an original option and we chose to light them from the top of the parapit or or apply light at top of the wall. Although letters are not lighted, not from like goose.

So lights hanging from the actual building. We are open to either that or to lighting from this parabid wall uh here which is a high parapid wall right just from here but you need your case the source of light see the source of light okay so this okay so this is where it's going right here I see all right it's been pulled up on the screen so you guys Oh thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks This is not the one you're looking at signs up here and I think you go. Yeah. Go to the right or the left and

yeah. So this is the existing building with the sign the new sign would be above that and this is what So you're going to add on how how high how how much height is that Brown's Brewing Company? The new one you have the exact dimensions of the sign I don't have with me. I don't believe it's noted here, but the overall square footage is very close to 60 ft. The rectang

and that's replacing the one that's painted. Yes, because we're we're I know. I get it. The doors would be right through right where the browns are. Right. Exactly. So, where the sign is painted on the building are going to be doors and windows and the sign is going to be on letters along the rooftop. Well, at the top at the top of this wall. At the top of the wall, but not on top of the roof. No, no, it would be against the wall. Got it. Okay. And the light the letters are not lit. No, they're not. We'll verify that. The letters aren't lit, but they're going to be lit. There's going to be exterior some type of exterior

be light on that wall across. Okay.

I like that. That's perfect. Ask if there are any questions. Any questions from [clears throat] anybody out in the audience or um or online? Anybody online? No. No.

We have a secret. Yes. And it's not just the sign. It's the All right. That's a sec. That's a second. Well, there's a couple of different ones, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think this one should be considered separately, I would say. So, there's an unlisted seeker with that, right? Um, yeah, there is seeker. It's unlisted the size. Um, yeah, it's it's So, will the will the lighting be like all hours or certain hours that the sign will be lit? Gary, I would like to do it. Everything we eat light now is in the evening hours.

Oh, not during the day or not. But all night long. No, during hours of operation. So this time of year from 4:30 to midnight. Yes. Oh, [clears throat] that's how we handle our current time. I think that's reasonable. Mhm.

So you will have to do a seeker. We don't uh you do you do but you can you know make your own declar you don't have to you do not have to declare yourselves lead agency. It's an unlisted action. But would it be one uh motion for both variance requests? No no we'll do it separately. Take them separate. So each one Oh, all right. We'll do separate. What is he doing? Yes.

Oh, you're waiting for me on Oh, okay. All right. I didn't know we were going to do that. [laughter] All right. Um, Mr. Chairperson, uh, in regards to PLZBA 20 25-0057, uh, with regards to the, um, sign and lighting, uh, uh, variance request. Um and as supported by the uh staff reports, I asked uh the board that this proposal uh to be uh an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration.

Second that motion. All in favor? All those in favor? Hi. Hi. Hi.

Yeah, we can. Um All right. So, the building frontage uh variance. Do we need to have So, so why don't you vote on this variance first? Oh, okay. Uh I vote to approve. No, someone has to someone has to make a motion. Oh, motion that we vote on this um sign only right now. Well, someone's got to bring the motion, correct? Yeah. Well, so everyone's looking at you.

Oh. Oh, okay. Um All right. So, uh, I move, uh, that the board approve the variance, uh, the area variance, um, based on, uh, the variance will not create an unreasonable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a detriment to nearby properties if it is granted. Um, it's still on the same wall, uh, and, um, uh, lighting. It will be, uh, the similar, uh, timing. Um the benefits sought by the applicant may not be achieved by some feasible method other than the proposed variance again because it's on the same wall. Um three the uh

you don't need them all. All right. Well, if that's sufficient, I'll second that motion. [snorts]

I vote to approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. So that's for item one. Item one.

Item two is slightly different. Perhaps you could look the same elevation of the building. Lower [clears throat] part. Those of you who are familiar with the building know that there is a steel and concrete deck across this part of the building. We are going to be replacing that with a new slightly larger deck that will extend not just from this corner but they include this slightly slightly higher portion here. [snorts] Both of them uh extend into the uh right away and right away in in that right away you need to have 16 foot clearance by 16 ft here underneath the deck uh by the ordinance. We propose to have not quite that height. Neither case this deck is going to replace the existing deck will be at the same height as the existing deck which is at first floor elevation so that it's accessible to the people who are who are eating at the first floor or coming from from the first floor come out to the deck. This deck is higher so that we can use the doors below that deck existing doors below that deck as a delivery um place for deliveries. So the delivery truck move into that space and we can look at a plant this at a moment. So a truck can pull underneath this talking about a panel truck can pull or small pure can go under to deliver food to to the restaurant food etc. Um so it's both of these are below the 16 ft. We have an 11 foot 10 clearance on this one, a 7 foot7 appearance on the existing one or the one that's replacing the existing one. So, we're looking for relief of 5 foot one here and 8 foot [snorts] five here.

So, to be clear, the the the 8 foot five clearance one, the one on the right is actually the size already exists. Is that correct? I will say that it exists within a few inches of that. Okay. The structure may be two inches deeper or shallower just based upon our structural engineers analysis of efficient deck structure. But yes, it's the the finished deck, the floor of the deck would be at the same elevation. Give give or take. It's the same. Okay. And the higher stair that goes up. Now, in your application form, I didn't see it referred to, but in your short uh environmental assessment form, you referred to an elevator.

There's there is a lot of work that's being done that is not there's no variance. We're not requesting variance for in the future. There will be an elevator in the building in the there's this four phases of construction as we see it now. The first phase being decks and the decks variance on this piece of structure here will be the new entrance which will allow uh going off [clears throat] the deck into the restaurant access all the elevations. Behind that is a new elevator proposed. So that's down the road and not part of the variance request now. Never require varants. Oh, okay. Because it was referred to again in the in an attached form. So, I thought it might be

right. Of course, a lot of these forms are written for the planning board. Oh, okay. They they reviewed all of the phases of this. They reviewed all of this. The planning board. The only requesting are for the height of deck and of course the signal. Thank you for the clarification. Is it just those two? Is there one more? That's the Is it just those two? The two decks. No, those are the two. There's just the two variances, right? Yeah. The This is for the 421 to 425. Okay. All right. Do we do a secret for that?

Chair, I have a couple of questions. If you don't, May I ask? Okay. Um so my understanding is that one of the reasons for the uh 16 foot uh requirement is to allow access to utility lines in the event uh public utilities needs to uh gain access to a public line. Do you have a utility map of the area underneath the u proposed

the engineer has come out and surveyed all the utility lines below there is no public line running below that deck there's one that is about the corner of that deck and goes diag

is that a water or a sewer line do you know sewer line. It's a sewer line and that does not run under underneath any portion of the deck. It does not run under any portion and again some of the documents you see may address this and some may not. We have also moved the two columns that were closest to it back about 5T so that there's about 10 feet or 9t between the closest column and utility line just in case it's off.

Okay. [snorts] So, I know that behind some of the buildings on River Street, maybe not this far north, uh there's a 20-inch water man. Uh do you have any indication? I don't know where that is. It's on River Street at that point. Okay. It could well be it get it gets down to Front Street as you go farther south. Okay. All our water incoming water comes from River Street. Okay. Um,

that may be a different survey. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you want to see exactly where that is, I would take that right over here. Absolutely. And you don't have that.

So, planning doesn't have this. No, it it's our planning does happen I believe but only in the last few days. Um so if you look again this is the orientation river is here and the deck uh closed deck is we're not showing proposed deck but this is the docu this is the sewer line and I think if you look at our site plan the sewer line is this was just outside and this was done before this so it is actually a little further out than that that is shown here and that column has been f but it is not under the [clears throat] okay provide you with documentation that was more coordinated than I expect

DPW or DPU

Okay. All right then. I have I have no more questions. Any questions from anyone out in the audience? Oh, I wait I do have one more. I'm sorry. I apologize. U my understanding is you have an easement from the city with respect to um the uh the decks going into the rightway. Yes. Or something like that. Have you provided that to the to staff? Yes, did. Okay. All right. Okay. When did you do that? Just uh It's probably been a month or so now.

Okay. And it's not just a survey with a a reference. It's the actual ement itself. Okay. I just haven't had a chance to review it. Okay. All right. Is there anybody online tonight? Um shall I proceed with uh a seeker? Uh all right for an unlisted.

Uh Mr. chairperson uh in regard to PLZBA 2025- Z0057 specifically with regards to the second variation uh variance request uh involving the building frontage uh encroment encroachment request. Um uh as supported by the staff reports uh I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I would second that motion. Um I vote to approve. Approve. Approve.

Approve. Okay. So it's a Nate Nate. You approved a Nate deck, right? Yes. [laughter] Yes. Neg deck on the deck. Neg deck. Negative declaration.

All right. And I'll make a motion to approve PLZBA 20250057 in regards to 421425 River Street decks that are to be constructed that don't meet the height requirement that we approve this variance. Um, I believe it will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or the building or the properties nearby. And I believe the variance at least on one side is not substantial because it already exists as such and um I don't think it will have an adverse effect or impact on the environmental conditions of the neighborhood. I would second that.

I vote to approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you very much. Okay. Have a good night. And I keep that. You can.

So this this was [laughter] okay. which means it's a lot of [clears throat] it. Okay. All right. Okay. [clears throat] Okay. Next on this next on the docket is PLZBA 20250059 5860 second street. Is there someone here?

Nobody here speak. Is there anybody here that would like to speak for them or No. or against. They're not here. Anybody online? No. I think you should go to the next item. Do we disable it? Should we disable it, direct someone who's come before us before? I don't know. Strange. So, this is a I think the homeowner would be here or Neil would. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Neil's come before us before. I would just table it. Table it for now. And uh if they show up, maybe we could just Okay. Reinstate it.

Yeah. They don't show up, we no actions. Okay. All right. Next um is PLZBA 2025006 30004 6th Avenue. Oh, Neil. There's Neil. Who's this walking in? No. Is this Neil? Yes, this is Neil. Oh, we just tabled that. Well, we didn't unless he's all right. So, in the middle of the agenda, you have to sit down and we'll call your case again. Okay.

Because he's in it. He's in it. All right. So, 0060 00. Should we do that? 30046th Avenue. Yes. 3046th Avenue. Come up to the podium, please. Okay. Okay.

State your name and all that. Name and address. And addresses. Yes. Joyce Daniels. is can you speak into the microphone? Joyce Daniels 30006th Avenue. I'm right next to 304 Stephanie Floyd 30006th Avenue Troy

senior years in 3300 6th Avenue. I was a former head of the neighborhood association. Um, I'm here because I'm here because I can't figure out how the city is going to let this man take a three family house and make eight apartments out of it. No, they're they're opposition to the Is the applicant here? No, he's not. and they're working in it every day.

Okay, continue. They're working in this house every day and they're trying to put it's been dug out. It's been cleaned out and everything and they're putting eight apartments in that three family house and the tree in the backyard is the main thing that needs to be cut down because it's all falling over in my yard now. So, you're saying that you are opposed to this? I'm opposed to it. Yes. Okay. Say why? Ask her. Joyce, why are you why are you opposed to it? What is your opposition? Opposition. It's a three family house. How are you going to make eight apartments in that one building?

And then and there's no parking facility there. And when I met with the guy um when he first got the house and you know he said he was going to keep you know say do a three family house and all of a sudden now it's going to be a seven unit or eight unit and we're trying to figure out where all these people are coming from. Who are these people you going to put in this building? Um there's no parking space and that's our concern because we've been on that block 40 over 40 something years there 44 years.

We have somebody coming from downstate buying up all this property and turning around who's going to be our neighbors. We've lived here and so long that we've seen our fair share of stuff on Sixth Avenue. So our concern is parking. What type of neighbors is he gonna have there? The garbage. Um [clears throat] because we've been here so long and we've never had this problem. You know, this house has been on fire like three times. I've lived there 44 years and that house has been on fire three times. Wow.

And now we got somebody coming, you know, want to put eight apartments or seven apartments. like how you gonna take a three family house and make it in these apartments. How small are these apartments going to be? And who our neighbors going to be? That's our concern. Who are our neighbors going to be? And the parking that's going on, you know, and like I said, these people don't live here. They're coming here buying up property and you know, is there going to be a maintenance person? I said to him, we our house is here. There's the gang way. His house is here. Can we have the code to the combination for the lock if we need to get in between the gang way? If our maintenance guy needs to come or if we were getting new windows on the first floor, we can't even get we don't even have access to go in the gang way. We don't use the gang way, but if we needed to go in the gang way, we don't even have access. And that's our concern about parking [clears throat] the neighbors, you know, different things. Yes, sir.

I have a question. Yes. your concern of gang way access or the repair of your sidewall or windows or something to that extent. That's one of the concern. Yes. Yeah. No, one at a time. Yes. What was his response to that? Well, when I asked him for either the combination or a key for the gang way, I said, "We will not be using this gang way unless we had to for our maintenance." He said, "Okay, I'll give you the code." Never gave me the code. I still have that text message from him where he never gave me the code. How long ago did that take place?

It's been going on with him for now about a year. Well, with that code, I think it was like during the summertime when I got it. I have it on my phone when I asked him for a code. Maybe June, sometime June or July. Yes. And he said he would provide you with a code but has not. He's never provided and I've seen him a couple of times and I've never asked him for it again because I figured he didn't want us to have the code, you know.

Well, that may or may not be a correction. and he's had all these people come, these foreign people come and when you ask try to ask them a question about what's going on, the first thing comes out of their mouth is I don't speak no English. Me don't speak English. Me don't speak English. So where do you go from there? And then we our our other concern is the tree in the backyard. If there's a rainstorm, wind storm, and that tree falls, we're going to get hit. And that's one of our concerns too about this tree that really needs to be cut down. He's not cutting the tree down. He's only worried about the inside. The inside.

Have you filed a complaint or a notice with the city of Troy regarding I've called the city I've talked to um the mayor about all of this stuff. I've talked to her about this stuff and right now I'm faired up with it. Please understand this is all new to me. So I'm trying to take this piece by piece. The person who initiated a request for a variance according to our report is it Mr. Waldo. Yeah, we know who he is. Abora. Iora. Is Mr. Iora here tonight?

No. He's Mr. Aora online tonight? No. Was Mr. Oora notified that his variance was coming up tonight? Yes. Did he explain why he would not be here? No, we didn't. He didn't get back to us. We sent him our last communication with him. They didn't I'm sorry. I cannot He didn't reply to our last communication with him. So, no, he didn't give a reason for no comment. No. So, he was notified. Yeah, he knew he he he was on the agenda. So, yeah, we don't know why he's not here. So, I have a lot of questions regarding this property

and I don't know who to address the questions to because with all due respect, I don't think you have the answers. So typically typically if the applicant doesn't show, we usually defer action at least for a reasonable time and table the table the motion. At one time we had um we had I had code come in because squatterers was living in the building. [clears throat]

How long ago were squatters residing in this building? back last last year, 2024. And what did code do when they code came and they they put a padlock on the house and somebody broke in it again? Did code come back a second time? They've been there. They even had the cops there and everything. They had um Department of Utility was there, too. [clears throat] This been going on. Now, this house February would be three years that we've been going through this with this house.

I want to back the bus up for a minute just to make sure that I really truly understand the sequence of what's taken place. This building had a fire as I understand it approximately three years ago. This coming February will be three years.

Okay. So February of 2023 there was a fire. From that point on, the building has not been occupied for residential purposes. Correct. It's been through two other hands before this gentleman bought it. Bear with me, ma'am. We're going to get there. Sorry. How many times has this building turned over in terms of legal ownership since the time of the fire? February of 23.

I'm quite sure it's three. The owner she told somebody they flipped it. I'm thinking either two or three times. So at least twice, maybe three. Maybe three. Yes. And during this period from the fire forward, there's been no attempt to rehabilitate or remediate the fire damaged building and make it habitable.

Well, what happened was when he initially bought the building, he came, he had a dumpster, they cleaned out part of it and then for like months, nobody did nothing with the house. They cleaned out some of the stuff and then no show. No show. No show. And then all of a sudden now he's back and he's, you know, cleaning it out and doing what he needs to do. Now when you say he, are you talking about Mr. Ivora? Yes. The owner. Yes.

And then you had the issue of squatters. There were squatters there in the interim. Yes. and code was notified of that issue and they were back a second time with the police. I talked with Jim Lance. He took care of that. Who did? Jim, I think it's last name. Jim Lance. Oh, Jim Lance and Co. Okay.

I hear your concerns loud and clear. Thank you. And and I would I would add that if this gets tabled, which I think it will be, I would encourage you to come to the next meeting. I have a a question with regards to that uh the code for the gang way. Um did you have access before he put in whatever uh lock code lock, did you have access to that gang way with prior owners for all 40 years? If we needed to go um the gang way, right?

All we did was go to the neighbor's house and say, "Hey, we need to go to the gang way." Because they had a door and they would have a lock on it. Can you open up the door? You know, 91 was coming to read our no problem. But that that was like almost 40 years or 40 plus years that you had that [clears throat] uh understanding or access for that purpose. For a while there was not even a door there, right? Then the people that after that put the door there cuz a lot of times I would have trouble with my cable or something and all I had to do is go over and ask could I you know

thank you. Does anybody on the board have any other questions or do you ladies have anything else that you feel would you please take the microphone? Um, I was uh the former head of the neighborhood association for North Central. Your name? Did you Pardon me? I already did, but it's Tina and 3300 6th Avenue.

Um, I headed up the neighborhood association probably for 20 25 years before we combined with all of Lancingberg and now it's at the Boy Club with Kim McFersonson. But we had a lot of problems with the houses being bought by absentee landlords mainly in New York and we had a lot of complaints and under the uh Tutungjan administration Tim Mati would come to our meetings and they had decided that that time they told us and I think it's part of the ordinances now that they wouldn't allow the breaking down of these houses anymore to three four six eight apartments or whatever and um Harry Tatunen said to us and furthermore or if it passes over into someone else's hands, we're going to require them to bring it back to what the house was originally to densify the area. That was what they wanted to do, densify it because you'd have one or two people living in each apartment and our streets being set up in the horse and buggy days. There's two spots out in front because the buildings are all right next to each other without lawns in between or whatever. And it was turning into a social nightmare of who parked who, who parked where, especially in the winter when there was snow and the plowing and people would pile up the snow piles. It it was it was a nightmare and it was a complaint at every single one of our our meetings. So, they decided they weren't going to allow it anymore. And that would help deensify the area and and um kind of soothe over the social nightmares. Plus, garbage cans. You got to have one for each apartment, you know, and if there was no gang ways in between, they'd all go out in front. And prior to the city providing the garbage cans, God knows, it was usually plastic bags thrown out in front well before garbage day. The dogs would get to them, the cats would get to them, the pigeons would get to them. It was a disgusting mess. So, they changed that for us. So, when Joyce and Stephanie called me and told me about this, I said, "Well, that's not supposed

to happen anymore." So that's why I came down with them to advocate for them. Um, if there's going to be eight apartments in there, and they told me that he's digging out the basement, it's already been dug out. All right. [clears throat] I don't know if that's going to destabilize the building from being dug down so much to put two more apartments in there. If you only get one person in each one, that's eight people. If you get a guy and a girl living together, well, it's more. Where are we putting all these cars? All right. for her it's going to bring down the property values which is what was happening all through North Central and Lancingberg. Um we really need somebody to act on this and to uphold what went on through the daten administration to help this.

So it it could really be a social nightmare especially with all those people in there. Who's going to fight with who? Who comes in too late? Who blasts their music? Who gets the backyard? miss the parking spots out in front. I can see a lot of police action up there is what we had before. Suffice it to say, one of one of your concerns is you have a three-unit building that they're proposing seven units in,

possibly eight according to what the new owner told them or these these people from Mexico that were doing all the work. I think there are an awful lot of questions and if I could direct this to the corpor corporation council I think this should be tabled to our next meeting and I've got a lot of questions that I would like to ask Mr. Ivora and I've heard your concerns. So that's where I'm at at this moment in time. That is the prerogative of the board, especially since the applicant is not here. Um, so

I have a I have a question too. What if he doesn't show up the next time? Then you can dismiss the application. We can dismiss him. All right. Will he be allowed to do any further work in between now and the next meeting? This this board doesn't deal with his permits. Okay. He's he's applied for a variance so that he can put more units in this in this building [clears throat] less than 700 square feet. That's all. So you can talk to building permits or code about that question. Do has that already been approved or did he just apply and go ahead with it? Like I said, we're just dealing with the variance question here. Okay. We're not dealing with the building permit question. Okay. Okay.

All right. Do we have to table or could we vote? Do you have any other concerns you want to bring up while we're here? Definitely. Any other concerns? Yep. I'm going to make the motion that the board table this until our next meeting in January. I second the motion. Uh approve the motion to table this. I'm gonna abstain from voting because I wasn't here for the whole conversation. approved to table and I would encourage you to come back for round two. Yes. Okay. And they'll get notice. I approve and ditto what he just said. Okay. I approve. And you can bring more. Okay.

Will I get a notice when the next meeting? She didn't get her notice until just a couple days before. It's the first It's the first Wednesday night in January at 5:30. Okay. Do we have the date? If you wait a second, we'll get Could I ask one more question? Yeah. What's the policy now of something like that that's going to go on in our neighborhoods when they apply for it? I've lived in the city my whole life. We always got notice on The next meeting is January 7th. January 7th. The next meeting. January 7th. Okay. Um, do they don't [clears throat] send out notices anymore to let the neighbors in the immediate area to know that something like this is being applied for? We send out notices. They should.

She didn't get any. I just got this Friday. What is that? Did you get by mail? Yeah. For this meeting, but not originally. That is the This is the first time he applied. What is the date on the letter? What does the letter say? It says Board of Appeals notice of special meeting. There is no date on the date on here. Can you bring it? Can you bring it forward? What about the envelope? No, I don't think that's See if there's a post on the envelope. [clears throat]

Here today, but I thought it meant that you know when was this letter dated? The postmark. The postmark is November 21st. So the postmark it was mailed November 21st to notify you of a date of December 3rd. That would be the meeting. So the So we know that the next meeting is the 7th. January 7th. January 5:30. Be here. Tell your neighbors. Okay. Yeah. Bring anybody. I would encourage you to call a couple days before the meeting, ask for zoning,

okay? And verify that it will be on the agenda, okay? And it's a public forum, so feel free to do what you got to do. Bring a friend. Okay. You also can check the Troy website. Okay. We're done. We're good. Yes. Good. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for the attention. Thank you. Appreciate it.

You want to go back? Go back. Let's go back. Should we go back for Neil? It's [snorts] up your choice. Hang on. Let's accommodate him. So 059. Do you want to do another [clears throat] make can you make a note that Zach came? Yeah. Go next on the 059. Tam, you got to go. Okay.

PLZBA 20250059 5860 Second Street. Please approach the podium. There's nobody on that. No.

Hi, my name is Neil Plone. I'm working with the owners of 62nd Street. Uh, I would like to use the building as a single family residence, which [clears throat] is not allowed in the zone that they're in. Are Are they two buildings?

Uh, the property line has been dissolved. Okay, so this is where it gets a little weird. It was supposedly this this building was built as a pair by some business person for their nieces to live in. The there's a fire somebody else added across the top. And there's holes in between interconnecting the buildings. Usually you have a brick masonry party wall between your row houses. Right. But there w but there was a property line until your client purchased the pair of properties, right? There was. Yes. So the there was two lots

and they were treated as two buildings historically. It depends how far back you go. They're they're built together within the within the the memory of man runth not to the contrary. [laughter]

Look, look, from from the exterior, they look like two separate buildings, but they're built the top, the attic is connected. The party wall is not constructed how you would normally expect, and there there were holes in between connecting the buildings. Usually what we see is a h a rowhouse, masonry rowhouse. We are not asking to take two rowouses that were not connected and punch through a masonry wall. There's holes in that wall. That wall is built out of wood which is sagging, collapsing which is how this all got started. So the owners were were hoping to just be in 60. They found out the structural problems. The neighbor didn't want to invest. They sold the property to my clients. My clients dissolved the property line. And when we went to go for a permit to fix the failing party wall, they sent us here because a single family house is not a permitted use.

Just curiously, is there one section block of lot now or is there still two? I have two. The the tax number I I suppose that might be above my pay grade, but they're [laughter] they're combined is my understanding. Like it's so they probably I think what he's saying is they've been merged. They Yeah. is okay. At at the owner at the current owner's request. Yes. Yes. [clears throat]

Make it real simple for me. You have two buildings that are really one because there's no solid firewall that separates the two buildings. That is the pitch that I'm making. [laughter] That's what I'm hearing.

So, for example, let's say we for whatever reason we are required to separate these two buildings properly. We've got to do major we're doing major structural. Anyway, the the the the owners want this to be their forever home. They don't want to chop it up into eight units. They want their extended family. They want to move uh [snorts] the previous generation in with them. Possibly do a residential elevator. And these buildings were constructed as single family residences regardless of the zoning. Right? So that's that's our pitch. It's not it's not like they if if we did nothing, we've got a big problem. They're not two buildings. So we want to use what looks like two buildings already connected. two separate numbers. 58.

They had two separate addresses. They and they had two separate. There was a property line, a shared party wall with passageways through it. Is it on one deed? I probably not don't know. They had to buy it from somebody else. They had to buy 58, the one to the north from somebody. So they Now it's one. So it it's one tax map parcel. Whether it's one deed or not depends upon what the owners Yeah, Steve. It's one tax map parcel depending upon whether it's on one deed or not depends upon what the owners did when they purchased the second property.

Who is the owner? So Michael and Vicky Gardner. All right. Do Michael and Vicky Gardner own both buildings or both structures? Yes. And what they want to do is simply to create it as a residence. Yes. And they have no intention of subdividing it or creating other units within it. Correct. That would be permitted. I'm on your side. I think this is so they they want to make an issue.

Essentially what the what your argument is, if I get it correctly, is that they want to make a what you view as a two family structure into a one family into a one family. You're saying it's one structure. Well, I'm saying that that's part of the pitch. It is it is it is set up as a Right. So, so it you know it function it looks it's was designed to look like two different has two has two entrances two stairs. Do do the floors match? Yes. There there's some additions on the back that were done at later dates that don't match

to go from one to the other. If you're inside, do you go through a doorway or an open arch or what? Yeah, there's doorways here that are that were plugged up because they were not there were two different families, right? Like there was a single family living in the north, single family living in the south. Different owners property line went right through. It looks like there should be a masonry wall that goes through to separate these things. Not only that, it's it's made out of wood and they filled it with brick and it's sinking. Got it. Okay. So, Here you go to the building department. So, well, we started with the building department and they actually let us do some of because engineers threw them out

because I mean it's not it's not going to collapse, but don't be in here. They want the variance before the exp. Thank you. I'm good. I'm good. Is Is there any any more questions from the board? Nope. How about from the audience? Any questions out there or anybody online? No. You like me to make a motion? Oh, we're do your ready. Y. Well, I want Richard to be he's involved. Oh, yeah. Okay.

They have to do they have to go through each criteria if it's a news. Yeah. Not for an area. So, Are we looking for use? It's a use variance because it's a it's a guess it's a multif family zone. Yeah, it's a high density zone. So things like colleges are permitted. We're not going to generate a performer to run at a college. Like the list is is it's kind of crazy to ask us to do every single one. Do you want do you want to go through the factors and say why the board should grant a use variance in this case? Here's factors. Here you go. Do you want them? You got them?

Yeah, I've got it. No, you can read and then he will say why. Okay, I can you want me I can read them? Yeah. Don't you got He's still He's still pitching. Are we still pitching? He's still pitching. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I making him pitch. If If you guys are good, I'm good. I'm good. Um, we did include Okay, I think we should do I make a motion that we do the Rick is asking him to go through. I asked him to go through the I mean, you should I'm not the board. I'm sorry. I don't have to do that. Okay. I'm suggesting that the applicant justify to the board why a use variant should be granted. There are five factors. Go for it.

We'll go for all the facts first and then we'll do the motions after. All right. You like me to talk or do you go for it? Okay.

All right. So, demonstrate to the board of zoning appeals that for every use permitted by the zoning code under the regulations for the Okay. What we provided was an example of what we would expect a normal like one of our other clients who is a developer to purchase these properties to chop it up into units, right? So, the math that we used were the purchase prices, the the estimates, the real We have a contract with Duncan Kale uh for the structural repairs an a reasonable estimate for a per unit fit up or for eight units the fire rating separations that would need to be created since this is an open it's a sing it's like you guys know it's wide open uh the sprinklers we're probably going to have to do some sprinklers under the residential code anyway but this is like a commercial offset and also there's asbestous in the ba basement. So what this was adding up to is millions of dollars that divided over the per unit and per square foot cost that we use for other projects to do to to do this kind of thing. It was coming up to to to being about 30% or more before we even got specific per unit to build. Meaning this is a bad project for a developer. So if if you were to hypothetically say this zone really wants these buildings chopped up and jammed full of units, you'd have my developer client in here asking to do 16 units because of this math.

It basically you're it cannot provide a reasonable return for what make it into multi-units which is why you want to make it into a single unit, right? It's almost backwards from what you usually hear. And again, because my clients are adamant, they want to they want a beautiful Troy house and they want to All right, let's go to the next one. Read it. The hardship relating to this property is you're going to qualify this is unique when compared to similar properties and does not apply to to a substantial portion of the neighborhood. So that's that was part of my technical pitch. The building's already connected. So that's that's why I was hammering that earlier. Okay.

To to answer that question is the Yep. No, we get it. So if granted, it will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood. [clears throat] Is that self-explanatory? Yes. Yes. [laughter] And um the alleged hardship is not self-created. So that one I guess it could be a little trickier, but they bought the property before any knowing any of the structural work had to be done. And I I could hypothesize just knowing them if the [clears throat] if 58 was not for sale and there were no structural problems, they would be living as a single family residence in just 60. Y,

which is a not compliant use, right? So they bought they they bought the building from a single family to be used as a single family. But as soon as you apply for a permit to do anything, we're going to end up here. They did not know the financial extent. That is correct. Got it. One more. No, that's it. There's only four. That's all. Four for use. Only four for use. I'm sorry. I'd like to move forward if [clears throat]

I'm I'm ready if you're ready for seeker. Okay. Um Mr. Chairperson, in regard to uh PL ZBA uh 2025- Z0059 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I'll second. Uh approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Right. Wait, we got one more.

And then I'd like to make the motion that um that the board approve the variance PLBA 20250059 to merge 58 and 62nd Street into a single family home. Um, listening to Neil, the uh the owners are unable to provide a reasonable return unless this variance is approved. The hardship relating to this property is unique when compared to similar properties. The [clears throat] requested variance, if granted, will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood, and I believe that it was not self-created. I would second that motion.

I vote to approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you everyone and thank you for your uh leniency with the with the time. My staff had it right. It's on the your agenda correct. I have a good night. Presentation. [laughter] Have a good night.

Adam. Adam is gonna be the next PLZBA 2025 0061 1467 Fifth Avenue.

Hi, I'm Adam and I live at 1508 Sauce Avenue. You live where? 1508 Sauce Avenue. Sauy Souse. [clears throat] Um, we just want to paint the name of our business and a little bit more on the outside of our building. Um, I don't know if you have the photos we submitted. We submitted We submitted a mockup.

Yeah, there it is. So, it's a little bit bigger than I don't know if you have the front face of the building over the front door. Okay, I didn't see that. Yeah. So, that's the name of our business. We want to The name of the business is is Yes. Folk, ye fo. Yeah. And um yeah, we're not going to build a physical sign that protrudes from the building. We're just going to paint right on the uh white cinder block. So, it's pretty unobtrusive and simple.

And that's what we're asking to do. So, wait a minute. I see I see the how the Howdy. Where's the other one? There's two, right? So, Howdy's like on the side above the free food fridge that we have there. Right here. Yep. Uh to the right there. Yeah. Howdy. But then you've got the other uh so then that's the name of the business that goes above the front door. So there should be another page with the front of the building mockup. There it is. Sorry.

And uh then I don't know if you see. Yeah. So that's that's the one that you're passing around right now. That's the front of the building. But the rules around signage seem to be more um tailored to like a physical sign that protrudes from the building. So the rules around square footage and whatnot were pretty limited because you obviously don't want a billboard sticking out of the side of a building. We're not building anything. We're just going to paint right on it is what we're proposing. Can I just ask you a question? Yeah. What kind of business is it? We're a kombucha brewery. We make kombucha. Okay. Yeah. What is kombucha?

Kombucha is a fermented tea that's probiotic. It's like a think of it like a a healthy soda and we have a tasting room. We're open to the public on the weekend. Um we actually the mayor came and presented us with the Little Italy's um best rehab award uh last year.

So there's no alcohol licensing, no state liquor authority. Um we we are also approved with the city of Troy and with the TTB, the federal um licensing arm to start a cidery which we're also working on. We're just the last step is the state liquor authority which they're just they're backlogged like 18 months or something. Does a cery equate to a public bar where alcohol is served with what we would think of as a commercial bar? Yeah.

Yes. And no. It's we're going to have a tasting room, but it's a farm cery license is the type of cery license that we're going for. So, but you're not talking about vodka, gin, bourbon, r? No, we're just making we would be making hard cider using all New York State apples. Um, yeah, that's what [clears throat] we So, the two signs, one would be over the front door and the other would be on the parking lot side. Yeah. Above the free food fridge that we put there. And then we were just going to paint twice. It went down twice. Yeah. And then we were just going to paint like our little sort of face

logo on the side. Drawings has a person's face or a silhouette on the left. Yeah, it's just it's like kind of one of our logos. It's just a face, but that's not a sign.

Um I guess it's open to interpretation. Yeah, we asked if we were more under like is this more of a mural or is it more of a sign? Uh, I was told that if any component of anything that we were planning on doing had the name of the business that it was considered a sign. I first reached out to the building department. Um, they said, "This isn't really our problem unless you're building a sign." And so then they said, "You should just talk to zoning." Who the first response from zoning was you should talk to building. And then in the end it was determined that we should do this. Um, so that's why I'm here.

Any reason why you're not using what I'd call traditional block letters as opposed to the way you've got it artistically illustrated? My wife's an artist and everything about our space is artistically done. I mean, the colors inside and um, and the free food fridge, the color of the door, all of that. We try to make things pretty. I don't really know of any business that only does like block like Times New Roman as their sign. Do you own the building, lease it, or rent it? Own it? How long ago did you buy it?

We bought it in 2021. It ended up being in much worse shape than we had anticipated. So, it took a couple years. Finelli, the Finelli uh brothers, Finelli Construction, did the work for us, which was cool because they actually used to get steel fabricated by Sam Bizaro, who built that building originally. Um, so there's a lot of history in the building. Quite a few of the contractors that worked on it had been there when it was a steel fabrication business. Um, I'm on great terms with Sam Bizaro's son, Pete, who also loves that we like brought the building back and revitalized it.

We just didn't have the band. It ended up being such a big project that we didn't have the bandwidth in the midst of it all to worry about signs. We were worried about the floor and the the heating system. I looked in the windows. It looks nice. Yeah, we did our best. You've done a decent job bringing that building back. It's really the contractors that we worked with. It needs to be brought in. Yeah, it's really the the the crafts people. I mean, kudos to you guys. Thank you. I could wax poetic about

Chuck our Mason who did the the steel the the glass block windows and the re rehabbing the front. You can't even tell that the amount of rehab that needed to be done to the block. Um he did a really really nice job. All the artisans, the you know the tradesmen that worked on the building did a really good job. So, we just finally are like, people keep saying, "Hey, I didn't even realize you guys were here." It's like, "Well, it's cuz we don't have a sign, so we should probably take care of that." Do you own the former scrapard? Scrapyard? You mean the lot? Oh, yeah. The yard is is part of the property. Yep.

So, we've got We just took all the tables and chairs in actually recently. And um yeah, we've got a Do you use that more for parking or for outdoor table chairs? In the winter, we use it for parking. Um we're only open on the weekend. I mean, we use it for ourselves for parking all the time. Well, sure.

Um in the summer, you I have a 5-year-old son. We've got a lot of people in the community and in the neighborhood with kids. We like to keep the gate closed and let kids run around and have their scooters and stuff and have it be a safe place for them. So, we encourage people to not park in there during that time of the year, but during the winter, we I mean, I was out there till late last night clearing the snow and making sure that it's safe and so that way people have a place to park. That's Now, did you say you were only open on weekends?

Yes, we're open on Saturday and Sunday. We're there during the week doing production, so could be kind of noisy when we're brewing and whatnot, canning. So, we're open on the weekends. Yeah. You ready to move forward? I don't have any more questions. I know there a seeker that Evie. All right. Yes. Ready? Yeah.

Uh Mr. Chairperson, in regard to PLZBA 2025-000061, as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to go unlisted [clears throat] seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I'll second. Uh I I approve. Approve. Approve. Approve.

Approve. I I move forward that the board approve the variance for PL PL ZBA 20250061. Uh the variance will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a deterrent for to nearby properties if this is granted. Fits in with the neighborhood. It's re rehabbing all a building that in an area that needs to be have that rehab. Um, the benefit sought by the application may not be achieved by some feasible method other than the proposed variance. If you were to put a sign, that would be a whole another process for you. I think that we only needed one. Yes.

Yeah. I'll second that motion. I vote to approve. Approve. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to letters, but I'll approve. [laughter] I got Steve approved. I approve and I congratulate you for doing good things to the community. Thank you. Yes. Good luck to you. All right. I'm going to leave. Are we done? One more. Unity house. Right. So, it's um [snorts] the never ending story. PL ZBA. Have a good time at your party. Have fun. Thanks for Thanks for hanging in there. Yeah. Good night, Tammy.

Good night. PLZBA 20250062 is Unity House. Good evening. Uh my name is Cargo Conor with Architecture Plus on behalf of Unity House. Um I happy to share my screen if it's easier the documents or if you want to pull up. Oh yeah, I can if you have the same. Yeah. Could you speak into the mic please? Yes. Thank you. [clears throat] Guess if you went to the uh elevation that might be the easiest to explain the project.

Thank you. One in the bottom left. So, we're seeking a variance for the from the um 50% uh transparency requirement um for non-residential uses. This this project's a teaching kitchen. Um this originally was approved through planning. Um when we got into demolition, we found that the existing building was beyond salvage. structural engineer came and uh basically evaluated and we decided to proceed with knocking it down and going back to [clears throat] planning for the new building. So we are looking for variance for the ground floor street level um 50% transparency requirement. We don't feel it um negatively affects the um the neighborhood. I mean we are proposing roughly a 21% transparency with the two windows and the door in low of the 50%. Share my screen lost the think I might just need to one second. I I think somebody's telling me my meeting may have been muted. So I want to make sure who is correct that from

that's me. Yeah. Oh. Oh okay.

Yeah. He said this is not muted. No, but Eric is telling me the meeting is muted. That's what I'm saying. This This is unmuted. Is this muted? This is not how it

So why is it? Yeah. So why is it showing He's looking up here.

Hey Greg, I just have a question for you. Sure. Okay. The issue is the 20% ground floor transparency. Is that because it's just going to be window? Just because it's it the 50% creates a condition where it's structurally difficult to brace the building. Okay. This small part here across that elevation is only 18 ft. And so we try to make those windows as big as possible. They're roughly 3 and 1 half by 6'8 on the first floor and then the door is 8 foot to just increase a little more glass on it. Just curious. That's essentially it though. Happy to

answer any questions. I don't have any questions. council has any questions or [laughter] [laughter] what was I I guess what was the design reason for having two windows sort of offset to the right as opposed to putting in three windows on the ground floor.

So go to the site plan. We were trying to make a little recessed area here to have a wheelchair turning radius. We pushed that back. Um so it it was just symmetry within that section of the building and structural reasons. Um the ground floor is also a lot closer to the street in this redesign. So having windows directly against um street was kind of undesirable. Any other questions for the board? I don't have any questions. Not uh for the applicant. Um question for uh Angelina. Yes.

Um the uh agenda lists this as a type two seeker matter but the staff report is it lists it as unlisted seeker. It's unlisted. It's unlisted. It's unlisted. No, this is for this is what I was confirming. This is for less than 4,000 square feet. No, this is actually a type two action. I know what's going on. It's type two. So, yeah.

So, it is an unlisted. Okay. Cuz it it had both in the the Okay. Okay. It's Yeah, it's type two because it's under 4,000 because it's less than 4,000. [snorts] Yes. It's on It's unlisted. It's type two because it's under 4,000 square feet. Okay. Thank you. So, no seeker is required. You can just say well like type two. Yeah. Yeah. You can if you're ready. Okay.

Thank you for the clarification. Okay. Mr. Chairperson, uh, in regard to PLZBA 2025- Z0062, as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a seeker type two action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. I second. Uh, approve. Approve.

I would approve. Approved. I move that the board approve the variance. Um the variance if granted will not have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or the district. [clears throat] Um and the alleged difficulty is not self-created because of the wheelchair access and that you don't want the windows at street level. I would second that motion. I vote to approve. Approve. Approve. approved. Thank you. Have a good night. Have a good night. Have a good evening.

If there's nothing else to brought up before the board this evening, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. I would second that motion. And I vote to approve that [clears throat] motion. I also approve the motion. Approve. Approve. Hour and a half. Happy holiday. I think we did well tonight. Merry Christmas. very one thing you forgot to do was ask