City Council - Regular Meeting

be on that. You've already calm down. Welcome back to our meeting. We will pick up where we left off. This guy might be offended that we're all like not excited. Oh, 2.4 review and discuss the selection appointment process for a new.

So, I'm just going to hit the highlights here. What is being proposed is the selection of a planning commission alternate because of the vacancy from Tara and her change to the city council. What is required is that we must have seven planning commission regular members. Uh but the alternate members um are not required. It is it is an option. Um as you know the planning commission regular members serve for three years alternate serve for one year. Again what is optional is if you decide not to fill right now the alternate you could defer it but you know a regular member does require your attention. Um we do have an adopted policy. Um as a policy you you you can follow that. there's not any legal obligation that you adopt or follow the policy. Um what we're recommending is that as per the policy the mayor serves, a member of the city council serves and then the city manager or designate serves on a selection committee. So obviously one of the requests is who among the city council would like to serve on this committee. I have just by way of reference um you can see by this map we do not have anybody serving on the planning commission from district one. These are the council districts. Again it's not a requirement but in trying to find

you know a balance representation that's an opportunity for the council. Um also this is a table of our current um members and and their expiration date. You can see that that vacancy. Um so what is being requested is that you identify um you know member of the council. Um do you want to direct staff on do we want to like target looking for somebody in one particular district or do we just open it up? Um we could also potentially consider past applicants but it has been about four years since we have had a need to advertise for um planning commission applicants. Although I'm sure through the council's experience with the community, you may know of some individuals already who have either applied in the past or maybe has expressed interest to you in serving in some capacity like the planning commission. So just looking for your direction on what you would like us to do.

Thoughts from council. I don't think it's a bad idea to if if there are if there is you know our candidates from district one that will meet the criteria. I I I don't think we should say that it has to be, but I I think it should be a weighted consideration perhaps. I agree. I agree too. And I think even maybe more strongly like advertise there and ask for that for a period of time first and then if you don't get someone then open it up just because so much is going on in that area right now and it needs to be fairly represented. That would be my thought. I

agree. Any other? No, I think that I think having those Gant charts of like who's going and who's coming and who's been there for three years almost and what that turnover rate looks like. What is the Will you fill that up again? What is the percentage of them wanting to do it another three years? I haven't pulled the commission on that. I can certainly do that. As far as I know, there may be only one commissioner who has expressed that this would be their last term, but I don't know of anybody else who's indicated that they are not interested in serving again.

Yeah. And it was surprising if you go back one more slide, the the map, it's they're a lot of that city center, even that first Rose Crest element there. So, the two up in the cove and one way out west. Yeah. Okay. So, council designate who wants to So, I'm happy to do it, but if you're looking for someone in district one, do we want to offer it to Jared first or does that matter or Jared?

Jared on. Yeah. As far as being on the committee, I I don't think that it's necessary. So, if you'd like to do that, Tara, I think that'd be great. I will make a concerted effort to reach out to all the different groups I'm in contact with, especially with some of the issues that we've had recently, including a a sign you can see from space. Um, I think we might have a few volunteers. Yep. Okay. I think given your like your service on the planning commission, yours is, you know, questions that you guys have a really good handle on what would make a good candidate. Sounds good.

So, we'll obviously uh work with communications and getting the word out and setting some typical time period for a response. Um, so we'll we'll keep you updated on that. I would like to keep the the bench or the alternates full so when one rolls off. It has been great. I I'm honestly this has been the best planning commission experience I've had in my career. And the change was when we allowed our three alternates to fully participate in the discussion. What was happening before that is that an alternate would come and if they weren't needed, they might sit in the audience or they might even just leave.

Yeah. And it's just generated a lot more participation and comment and and feedback on everything we do. Well, you get that Yeah. years of of learning watching. Yeah. So, it's been it's been terrific. And then also just say I talked to some other cities that don't have alternates and then they sometimes have to cancel meetings. Yeah. And so to be able to get a quorum. So, it's a great thing to have a Yeah. That makes people upset when you got to cancel meetings.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Thank you, Michael. Okay. Um 2.5 discussion regarding proposed rental fee schedule for the athletic community. Wendy,

just Trevor and I will be taking this list. Anything with numbers is obviously related because I don't I just spend the money. That's that's what I'm good at. Um, and anything like program process-wise is more my why I'm here. Um, so we have some new parks, which is amazing. They'll be coming online for rentals, which is one of the things that kind of sparked this conversation. Um, we know we've needed to relook at this for a long time. It's not my favorite topic of discussion to have with council. Um, and I think I think you all can understand why that is. Um, but we'll we'll dive into it. We also have the community center room which is going to be available for rentals as well. So Trevor has a super fun spreadsheet. He can throw in numbers, change the model

if you want to see it. If you want to see it. And if is like bold. Okay, we'll start with the community center. Monty and Justin have been working on this project for the last

design. Yeah, year and a half. Um they're almost to the finish line with it. It looks fantastic. Um council member Anderson had some really good questions about the community center. The room is just over 4,000 square feet. And to give some idea of what that is, our room downstairs is 30 3100. So, it'll be bigger than our community room downstairs. Um, this project is a phased project. We are in phase three. We are in phase three. Um, and the reason why it's taking so long is because we're using um community development block grant money for this and we only get so much per year. So, it's really dragging out the process. Plus, in addition to that, the government shuts down, then opens back up, then shuts back down, then opens back up. and we're going back and forth with the county because they're the middleman between us and the federal go. It's a whole thing. So, um, we'd like to set rates for the community center. Trevor has put together the costs taking into consideration personnel, operations, utilities, all of those fun things. Um, and we propose the rental fees to be as you see here. These are similar. They're the same as they are downstairs, right, Trevor? in the community room.

They're similar in structure, but the rates are different. Okay. Have we factored into M cost into that? Yes. Yes, sir.

I do anticipate um we will be doing senior programming over there now um or once we get the facility open um and friends of Heramman will occupy some of the space in the evenings and on the weekends. So, there may not be a ton of rental time available. I'm not sure. Um, we'll just kind of see how it goes. Our hope was to free up our community room here more for meetings and those types of things. It is booked quite often. And, uh, this just gives us another place for community gatherings and events.

And from what I saw, these were like kind of to break even, right? This isn't being used as a money maker or anything, right? We can't make money. a little bit of a deficit deficit for residents. So,

I like it. I I like that. Um we'll have an extra space. I would love to see it open as much as we can have availability. Um because that's one concern we have like looking for any space to hold like an election party event or a wedding or anything besides going to a private event center which we are getting some now but prior to last year the year before there was no space for those type of events even you know the library and I I would I don't know I don't know what I don't know what that looks like is it any group any participants they can rent it if it's available right there's no restrictions on

just like downstairs here right similar policies yeah and we had we had a group approach mommy last week or the week before about doing an ongoing rental on Sundays which we declined just because we didn't want to occupy every Sunday forever with not forever but for a long period of time with one group um what Does parking look cuz we have a shared parking lot. So we have shared parking with the church. Sunday is harder. Sunday will be harder. That's a really good point. Um but otherwise it should function fine.

I think we take care of the city needs first senior plan planning programming that sort of thing. the intent for this a lot of this building and the money was used out of those programs and then have the open times for other city events friends of Herman nonprofit stuff and then on the third process public residents first and then non-residents but I don't know how an application comes in and so I think typically it's going to be first come first serve somebody will reserve it won't be able to say well we have to wait and see if the resident

No yeah I yeah not for I will say usually we book out the city books out all of our stuff for the year and then friends comes in and books out their stuff for the year. So we have all of that done. That's part of that process that we've had to stumble through for the last few years. Um and then it's open up to either other, you know, city meetings or programs or what kind of flooring did we put in that room? It's dark carpet. Okay. Tile still. It looks It looks really nice. Of course, I see you. I saw the big dumpster out there the other day. I was like, get more worked up.

Okay, so I think Councilman Henderson has anything to add. Sounds good.

Okay, now we're going to talk about the contract build rentals. Um, Herman historically has h has worked with quite a few volunteer organizations to provide leagues and tournaments for the city. Um, I have a list of those. We'll go into those. When I first got to the city in 2016, nobody was paying anything for anything. So, so it took us a year or two to get our feet under us and put some guard rails in line. We came to council several years ago. um and set the current rate, which they do get a contracted rate simply because they're providing all the work for the leagues and the tournaments. They're doing all the striping. Baseball does maintenance on the fields. We do some park maintenance on the fields as well, and Anthony can answer those questions. Um they schedule everything. They take care of the garbage. They do they do a lot of things that city staff don't have to do. And Nathan and I have both worked in cities where the city's running the leagues and it's a terrible thing to do. So overseeing youth soccer is not my idea of a good time. Mayor, I don't know how you feel about that. But

um that's why I ran for mayor. I wanted to get out. So we do depend on them for their volunteer hours, their service area hours, and then we don't have to do it. Salt Lake County also runs a lot of recreation league programs, soccer, basketball. I think they're doing a rugby program. I don't know if that's still going because the Warriors, but probably gone.

Anyway, um the county also does some, but most of our organizations out here are volunteer-led organizations, community based organizations. Um I have those lists right here. Um we did reach out to them to get their roster percentages. uh we heard back from the top four and that gives you an idea of how their percentage of Haramman resistance that they're serving. I will say Haramman baseball and Haramman lacrosse both cross over into Daybreak into South Jordan because those kids feed in the Haramman. So we do have a lot of South Jordan kids in those percentages. Ochre Mountain girls softball is more of a regionalbased softball program. Um they play in many cities. West Jordan, Riverton, Herman, I'm not sure about Bluffell. Um so they mix their rosters. So they bring in different girls, different teams. Um my guess is it's the same with Utah girls tackle football because that is such a unique program.

It's regionally. Yeah, it's a re more regional based program. So um we are missing Herman youth football. They practice in Riverton. Okay. Yeah, because they're split between all three cities. Yeah. Okay. So, they they practice in Herman last I heard or Riverton. Did I say? Yeah. The second time. Okay. Thank you, Trevor. So, that gives you an idea. Um, so far Copper Mountain Recreation Soccer would like more space. Um, as would Haramman Rugby would like to utilize space. Does Herman Rugby not have that new field? Which new field? In Olympia. dedicated to her rugby. Okay.

So, we need to have that conversation. Do you want to go through your analysis, Trevor? Yes. Um, we as a city subsidize the cost of these fields. I don't know if I can say that. We True. We do. Yep. Um to the extent that you see illustrated here, there's kind of a darker reddish orangish rusty looking salmon. Called it salmon. It's like the color of my shorts. That line there see that color.

All right. That line there uh labeled current level is indicative of our current level of subsidy which is the city covering 95% of the total annual cost for um our 20 baseball and multi-use fields. and 5% is covered or recovered through rental fees um from contract sports users as well as non-contract users. So one-off rentals uh throughout the city throughout the year. And so the tables that you see here are essentially telling the story of if you as a council want to move that subsidy level to another tier. Um what that would mean in terms of uh change in rates essentially to uh make that cost recovery to the level of your appetite. Do these programs pay hourly, daily, seasonally?

They pay a daily rate seasonally. And is this 95% similar to the subsidy provided for baseball? So this is an average of the subsidy to baseball and multiuse fields. I didn't look specifically at what the baseball's subsidy was versus the multi-use fields or other um partners or contract organizations. Are

those subsidies the different subsidies between organizations? Is that based on an increase costs that the city has to take care of something versus something else? Is that or is it just Does that So if I'm right Trevor is that the total cost is what we spend on all these fields combined. So we took all their costs that 849 right and right now we get 46595 that's how it came to the for and it's not broken out. So yeah, whenever you you have an operating field, we we maintain it. Frankly, we're maintaining whether anybody's using it or not, right?

Uh the more heavily used probably you start to increase your your level of maintenance you have to put on it. So that that's not always a it's like it's the same cost whether it's sitting or or being used. But I think this is just a real high level. Does this include any employment time? This is just the field maintenance repair water. It does include staff. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And do we know if this is similar to what other cities are doing with the level of subsidy? Um I can speak a little bit to it. I don't think any other cities doing this type of council, okay,

on this. Um to be completely honest, I don't think we've never done it until now. Um, they also negotiate their contract rates with their organizations. Otherwise, like South Jordan's is a day charge. It's $50 a day across the board for whatever for any park or any section. Um, but they don't disclose what their contract negotiations are either. So,

I'm sure and one thing like being a baseball um quit their league and so now South Jordan City's running all their baseball leagues. So, they've had to hire staff to do that. It's it's it's wonderful that we have such good organizations who are so good at doing it that we don't have to do that. So, I I just want to make sure I'm not discounting how much work they're doing as organizations. It's really helpful. Well, there's people playing on these fields other times, too. There's money being used that were not accounted for that.

So, this is an overall cost. So, we are subsidizing So, and I don't think the percent again I you know I love your not but I don't think it's a true I don't think we're subsidizing that if we were just take the amount of time they're using the fields but I think that percentage goes down right of how much we're subsidizing those hours because there's going to be a lot of open time. If I might I worked in four cities and looked at these there is there is no park that covers its cost 100%. You can set those. Sometimes sports parks, sports complex, you do do that. That'll be a different conversation because it it's programmed. You've you've got especially if you're using turf, you got to replace it. A regular

Butterfield Park, right? We have those big fields. We use it for things. I think we probably took out some of those hours, but there's 42,000 hours available in all our multi-use fields. That's a lot of fields. I I I think it would be one impossible but also not not great public policy to try and say we're going to get 100% cost recovery how we have it. It's not realistic. um that subsidy I I don't know if we have the total number of hours we've rented them versus but I this is probably you asked is it standard pro I would my guess is if people ran the numbers they're all going to be somewhere in this between 90 to 95% because it's just hard to they're open fields anybody can use them and we wouldn't go out there and catch a family and say oh by the way You got to write us. You got to write us a $20 check because you used it for an hour, right? Nobody's going to do that.

And so, um, and I think we talked about the role of government and I think park space is one of those roles. I just I do. It's you figure if they were making money, the private sector would be building them and making money off of them. We wouldn't we'd be out of the business. But it's an amenity. It makes it more livable as we've talked. You don't. So I I and I I'm not even sure subsidies the right amount. It's just sponsor. This is how much revenue it generates. This is what it costs. It's never you're never going to get those equal. Um but even if we were take all the organized sports away, would we take that park space away? No. No.

Right. So or if we brought them in house, would we make any more money than 5% at the end of the day? You start adding the time of all the volunteers that are out doing this right now. I mean, you're probably clearing a million in payroll for all the volunteers. What I what I would say is as you know, as things evolve with the sports complex and tournaments, like you know, hopefully we are going to need more field space for big tournaments than we would have at that complex. And then we're going to need to utilize some of these other spaces and, you know, be able to charge for it. As this says, this is this is does not include that. That that will be a separate conversation because again,

uh artificial turf, you get a lot more usable hours, but you have a time life. It's it's carpet. You got to replace it. Yeah. I just think this when we have that conversation, if we're going to utilize that complex to to its maximum and and get those big tournaments, we in the summertime when we do have availability for these the natural grass, you know, soccer fields that we're going to want to have the option of of including walking them out, blocking those out for for those types. And I think you'll see some of that. We're also anticipating that some of the bigger organized groups that use our fields would move to the to the a sports complex where it's better and this would open it up for residents or other smaller groups. So,

true. Uh it the reality is we don't have enough field space for the demand. That's why you saw the list of groups that want it. Uh which is why it's uh we do it kind of there's a process when we go through that. But is it symbiotic? is are they working together or everybody has their space, right? Has this rate been the same since you instituted a rate? Yes.

So maybe it should be adjusted might be one thing to consider. So I love going out and watching people on the fields on Saturday mornings. Like I think it's really neat. It's community building. It's exercise. It's people gathering. It's all those things. But also like I think you have to like consider and part of the conversation is like we say we can't build tennis courts and we can't build a sub a swimming pool because we can't subsidize it. And so like if your kid chooses to play soccer instead of play hockey like I mean I think you just have to think about it a little bit. um like the city is choosing to do this and it's great because there's multi-use fields and there should be access to any kind of exercise for lots of people and that's one thing I would like our city to be known for but I think you have to think about that too like we're making a choice on what we are favoring another part is like if it hasn't been adjusted for a few years like it probably should be adjusted and then I think maybe not this year I don't know how often you reevaluate fees, but maybe there is some like consideration over the next year about a 10-year plan to get to 80%. Or something like that where it's like um another 5% each year. And then just the last thing I'll say is um if if these teams don't know how much we're subsidizing it, then I think it should be in the contract and they should be aware that they're getting a deal and that they know like what and maybe we need to adjust the numbers a little bit to account for um free time on the field, but like they should know that they are not covering anywhere close to the true cost. Could we could we run those numbers of actual rented time to non-rened time?

It might not be worth. We're never going to get to No, no, no. But like say Haramman baseball or Haramman or Mount Ridge football, you know, they rented fields for these exit days and you know, you can quantify that and then quantify what that divide the 896 by 365 by whatever. You know, that's hard with staff time spread out, right? True. I'm You're not going to get an exact number, but you're good. Yeah. Just be a rough Yeah. I say like a disclosure, like a little asterk at the bottom. Yeah. Or something. It might stop those phone calls too of like

cuz there are still people who complain about the cost of like soccer programs and things. I mean, I know I've I've heard it, but like it's nothing compared to some other sports sports that we have chosen that would probably be far more expensive to subsidize like a hockey rink. But um but you know the the city is invested in this and this even if it's a talking point we want people to be out um on outside building community um exercising and we're putting our money where our mouth is. They also might take better care of it too hundreds of thousands of dollars. Well and they they also get a little bit more careful about their schedule preferences right

they make sure their scheduling is in line and not booing out the entire summer. Yeah. They want to practice all season long. Yeah. If there's if there's more demand than availability for the field, then you probably could raise it a little bit too. Yeah. So, but I don't want anyone to go to a surrounding city because our leagues are way more expensive than others. And so, or drive out of town to practice and feel. Yeah. But we got high schools driving to American Fork to do softball. like so there's there's opportunity there to keep people in town. So forformational purposes besides like the program volunteered sports programs how often are we getting tournaments to you know

we're just not getting anything right now. Okay. Is that just our field quality? No, it's just they run the tournaments. our organized groups. So, I'm not saying anything needs changed now unless like there's like really a lot of momentum for it, but I would like it to be something that's considered in the next year before we reevaluate.

Okay. We we recommend just keep we have two new parks coming online, Mountain Ridge and Monument Park in Olympia. Um, we would just recommend that we do the same consistent rate across the city on our multi-use field parks for both our contract rate folks and our resident and non-resident rate folks. We do have a very small we Trevor calls it a Pac-Man percentage of non-residents and residents that also rate the fields in addition to our contracted sports. Um, what was that percentage Trevor? Do you got the Pac-Man? Was like four. Yeah, it's really small. for non-residents

for both non res and resoffs. Yeah. That aren't affiliated with the league. Family softball game. Okay. You need to go to Jared. Jared, go ahead. Yeah, it was really good discussion. I apologize that I can't be there today. I had another procedure done this morning. I'm not supposed to sit for 24 hours. Oh jeez.

Luckily, the the anesthesia has worn off enough that I can think and and talk. Um, when it comes to this one, lots of good comments. Um, just a couple quick things. Tournaments. We're not going to get any tournaments from any organizations simply because we don't have the number of fields that it would take to to run a tournament. They're not going to run a tournament with fields being spread out all across the city and you got to drive 20 minutes between. But that obviously will change with the athletic complex for just our regular parks and organized groups. For me,

right, for for me, the difference with the organized groups versus the park space for the public is just that they're organized groups and they're taking over the park for that period of time where the public can't use it, right? So whether no matter what the organization is, none of them are ran by the city. They are their own organizations. They're they say they're from here and you saw the the graph with the number of participants here, but that's where their home fields are. The teams they play against, they travel outside the city to go play against them. And they have the same thing. Those those uh organizations have to find a field that they can use as their home field, schedule it out, etc. And when we when you schedule it out for a group, the public can't use it. So, just think of Butterfield Park during football season.

The regular public can't use it. I mean, week nights, Saturdays, you you name it, because it's they're it is packed full of of those organized sports people. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but they are taking the use away from the residents. And I don't feel that the resident should be subsidizing that. from from my perspective working for coaching, you know, competitive soccer. I'm I'm a licensed, you know, have my national coaching licenses. I get paid as a coach and we still have trouble with my younger, you know, nine-year-old teams finding places to to practice. So, we actually will go over to Draper and pay their $15, $20 an hour fee so that we know we have a place to practice. 15$20 an hour is more than reasonable um for for really any of these groups. So my take is that if if it's an organized group, I mean the people using it really should pay for it. They do put more wear and tear on it. I agree with Tara in that I think maybe we should look at a plan to phase this kind of charging for what we haven't charged before rather than just throw it all on them at once. Maybe this year in their contract yep it's going to go to the 8020 and the following year would move to 6040 etc. kind of a any change is difficult, but if we do it in a gradual manner, um it won't be as as big of a a deal for them. And second, it is pretty again, it's a pretty low cost compared to to what the alternatives are. And again, for me, the main point is they're public parks. We we have some pretty good parks, but quite honestly, we don't have as many as there is demand for. And if we're

letting organized groups use them, the then our public who's actually paying for them can't use it. So that's my take because I do think that we should charge something. I do think that we should phase it in over time. We're never going to make up all the costs or anything, but to they should at least kind of pay their fair share. Jared, do you have a feel how we compare when you're going to Draper to rent a field or as far as costs go? I mean, are we, as it stands now, are we in line with with neighboring communities? Yeah. $20 an hour is cheap. It's 100%. Yeah. What about quality of fields, access, amenities?

That varies tremendously from not just from city to city, but from field to field and from sport to sport, right? What I mean a a rugby rugby team probably wants to grass longer. A soccer team probably wants a grass shorter, right? Yeah. So, it it it just depends and there there's just not enough space that having the athletic complex hopefully will alleviate some of that pressure. There will be a place for a designated place for all those organized sports to go and free up our public space a little more. But

I think Tara does have a you know point with regards to the subsidies and you know we we don't want to pick winners and losers you know so to speak. Um you know but there has to be uh we can't just like throw something on on these types of organizations like it needs to be something planned out. It needs because they set their rates and fees. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, but my recommendation would be to leave it as it is for this year and starting it next year. Yes. Yep. Do you start signing contracts for this kind of thing? They're due February 15th. 15th. Oh, yeah. So, it's way too late.

We're already working on it. Um Lauren's done a really good job organizing all of the field rentals um and getting them getting all their contracts done and scheduled and and we do give priority placement to certain like if they've historically used that space for 20 years, you know, they automatically give that space for when they need it as long as they've paid their bill. Oh, that's good. Do you have anything about fee analysis in the strategic plan? Um, we I I think we do. It's probably not detailed as far as this goes. Yeah, it's probably not far. It's probably our subsidy.

Um, because right now we're at $10 an hour. Is that what we are? But that's that's for an individual, not a organized the organiz per hour. A non-resident's 20 20. Could we do could we look at just bumping our resident non-resident not our program sports to a higher rate? Most of that's sports. Well, I know that% Well, I know. But we could bump them to $20 an hour or right this year. Okay. Because it's not going to affect Well, and certainly for the new park space, right? It's new to the system. So,

is that coming online this year? The mountain ridge. Fountain Ridge and Monument. I get it, but let's just look at it. My opinion, let's look at it next year because we'd have to bring that back, wouldn't we? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it's not called out specifically in some level of the strategic plan, um I if someone else Well, back we have I I'd like it in there so we don't lose track of it and forget it. Yeah. And then if you're reviewing those monthly, then it will be a nice reminder to be able to consider some of those factors. We want to get to the goal of 100% paid for for I don't I don't think we'll ever get there. No, I think that But they're not using it 100% of the time. No. Yeah.

I was thinking 5% a year until you get to 80%. But I mean, you'll know more year by year when you're kind of testing it out and seeing if you feel push back. But to not have it um increase, so you think it's been in place for four years or five years or more? Probably 2017. Okay. So, It's due for an increase no matter what. But we do get push back from like baseball every year is asking for lower. Yeah. And that's the tough thing is like baseball. But if we go up, it's going to be Yeah. You'll have parents come. Well, that's why I think it should never be 100%. I think even 60% is like a pretty extreme, right? Because we don't want to drive people to surrounding cities or price anyone out.

And 60% you're talking $8 an hour off these numbers. These are rough, but because of respect, the contract the contract rate organizations are paying $10 a day. And the reason why is because you can't it's too hard if you've got Mountain Ridge football at Butterfield Park to try to split it up by hours. Virtually, it's just too hard. So, it's just easier to sell them a day. So, $10 a day and which is so cheap. That's why it's at that 111, right? Yeah. um because they have 10 10 hours to use that day roughly.

When you change a fee schedule, does that trigger a public hearing or is that just a council decision? Council decision. Yes, we we've historically been doing public hearings as more of a courtesy that is not required by state law. Okay. I would just say when you are meeting with these organizations with their contracts this year to let them know that. Of course. Yeah. And that's why we wanted to to bring it to you to see where you wanted to go. Um it's a hard it's always a hard conversation. Yeah. So because you're almost going to have to go up five times the fees just to get to 80%. That's a

well I don't think I don't think we need to be you know the you know 900 grand or the 850,000 agreed bucks is like that's you know for the whole year right that's that's not taking into account what the costs are while they're there using you know maybe that's something we need to maybe try to quantify a little bit yeah can we switch that from hourly I know you broke it down to hourly for this but for how many days those programs rent and what that daily cost is a daily cost rather than a hourly cost. I can tell you it's like a quarter of

of the 900 of the hours and so it would be a quarter of that annual cost as well. So and then those annual costs are going to go up every year. True. And so like we should at least keep pace with like you know so 225 it should be less every year. How how many days does her or does mountain ridge rugby or football take at Butterfield?

Mountain Ridge football. They've got Why are they practicing there instead of at the high school? No, this is all use. Yeah, they can't touch high school fields. No, that's another topic of discussion. Yeah, we're doing about 1500 hours. 1500 hours or 1500 days? 1500 hours. 15. Okay. So, do we keep track of it of hours and then so I don't know that we track the actual hours used. I think when they come in and strike the contract, they say this is how many hours we anticipate.

And then they divide it by days or how do they pay the We just do it by day. They can give us the hours to make their reservation. So, for example, they need it from 5 to 9:00 p.m. for practice. Okay. But that's a day. Nobody else is going to use it that day. Yeah. Right. So using the rough 25% of the number that's going to put us at roughly 30% of the total cost of fields for the year like just for super rough numbers if you're you know you're looking at what you say 225 I said 225 I did 900 made round numbers.

Okay. So yeah so it's roughly 30% of that. So if if we are currently if they're currently at you know at 5% and we might be might be looking to make it to 30% of that cost. Yeah. I just you're I mean I get it but you're going to have a riot. I tell you'll have a riot probably. You're going to have if you try to go up that much. Seen those council meetings where all the little children die. Yeah. But I'm saying I get it 100% get. I'm just saying if we try to get that much in a few years be

think about percentages. They're going to think in percentages. If you go 300% that's what it would have to be. But if we go just it's going to be it'll be chaos. Even at 100% from $10 to $20 a day. It's not. So I like the idea of having a 10-year plan that at minimum keeps up with inflation. Um, and but and I agree we need to do some cost. I just think getting to 80 is just I mean that's just me, but I think it's unrealistic because I think you'll have you'll push kids to other cities. We'll we'll price ourselves out of it and the whole again I think we are low in some areas and I'm fine looking at that.

But getting 80% in my opinion is going to be and do we do we charge baseball same $10 a day per field or 10 is it per field or is it per complex per complex if we if you like when mountain ridge football uses better fields the whole complex lower everything yeah you can't it's too hard to parse it out still if we're trying to get to 170 in fees rental fees like that's what I'm looking I'm not looking at percentage I'm saying if you're going to even try to get to 100 you're going to double their I mean you'll have we even went tried to go up a little bit a couple years I remember that it was one of my first meetings I attended and it It's hard. It's hard to say.

Some of it will be education, right?

Yeah. The main part about that, I agree with you, mayor, um is any change is difficult, right? Especially if they're used to not paying anything or or next to nothing to charge anything, they're going to say, "Wait, what? What? Why are you doing that to me now?" Right? We're not hurting anything. We bring all of this to the community. The simple fact is that our population has grown much faster than the ratio of facilities to the people that want to use them and and we don't really I I feel we don't really have a choice but to start charging them something but I think it definitely needs to be on the tiered approach. I don't know that we necessarily have to set a goal for a dollar amount, but maybe give staff direction to bring us back a couple of options as far as a phased approach over a period of time, what they would suggest. And then for each organization, just speaking from experience, when there's field fees, um when when when you've got I pick pick whichever one of those organizations you want and the number of of players that are there adding $5 to their registration fee each year. Yeah, it's not a huge burden. It's a change and nobody likes none of us like to pay anymore. But yeah, inflation happens to all of us. That's approach I'm going with. Yeah.

And then I would just add in all this, your staff are the experts with this and so um like we would want to make sure we hear about your experiences and what you're hearing and um what you're seeing around too. So So for this for now for this year we're just going status quo. We'll bring back a plan. Um, we'll see how rentals go this spring and then we can bring back that information to you. Maybe talk to them during their um, contract process and explain what we're considering going forward, get their feedback on that and bring that back maybe in this end of summer. I like that. Does that work?

Okay. Okay. for now. Are you okay with us setting the rate at Mountain Ridge and Monument the same as the rest of the multi-use fields across the city? Yeah, I am. But I thought you mentioned that maybe it should be more because they're newer. You can you could start them at the higher rate. Start them at a higher rate because we haven't nobody's used them yet. And they're premium. Nobody's got first dibs except the that one too. I mean, but we told rugby what it was going to be already. We give them a price. They're but they are contract support. They're different. Oh, we're not talking a contract. We're talking that Yeah. non-contract price. And And who is usually doing non-contract rentals? Like who does that?

A coach who needs a place for his kid to practice because they can't find anywhere else. Yeah. Okay. And off hours. Yeah. It's not really prime hours. Do you have any experience with different rates for different fields from your experience? N Yeah, I mean it depend if you have if you have newer fields or you have turf fields, right? They're you charge differently. Um again, we we have probably a waiting list for people who would like to use the field. So, so it

and some of our current contractor users want more, right? They have their spot that they've had forever at Copper Creek or Butterfield, but they would like more field space. So, they want to have access to Mountain Ridge or Monument. So, so I I' I'd be hesitant to I think we should think about that before we give them a contract, the same fee that they've been paying because then you're going to go through if you're going to let them have this premium space, maybe you do have to jack that up so that maybe you don't have to increase it when you're bringing the other fields up. Yeah. They're just use if they want that nicer field. What are your thoughts on that, Jared? I couldn't quite hear all of that.

We're talking about the the two new fields that are coming online and having a different having an increased price per hour or per day that we're going to charge for those new fields, newer fields given the supply and demand. I did hear that part. I didn't I couldn't quite hear Nathan's comments. It was a little garbled. I I apologize. I was saying I think if you're going to have a new field, I I would hesitate to give them the old rate and then try and raise it up next year. If you're going to if you're going to do a new field rate for those ones, I would just start them at that rate this year so that that group doesn't get sticker shock next year.

Yeah, I totally agree with just like I mentioned a few minutes ago, whenever you change something, no matter what the change is, right? that that always is a little bit painful. Um, but I think that I think I did hear the point made again that there's a waiting list for most if not all of these fields, which again speaks to the fact that our population and the need for it has outgrown um the our ability to provide it. and the groups that are using it currently are preventing not not just those other groups who want to pay for it and be competitive but our res our residents who are the ones paying for it don't get to use it. So, I think that that it all makes sense. And for the new fields, I totally agree with Nathan said it at at a higher rate to begin with. And I think as as we're signing these contracts for this year, we kind of have to let people know given the expectation that there will be some small increases coming, you know, each year as we as we try to wrestle with this issue. And then maybe the dynamic will change when the athletic complex is done and hopefully take some pressure off of these these other parks. But my my guess is that the big club sports who parents do pay a lot of money, they're the ones who will pay a lot of money to be at the athletic complex and some of the smaller ones, say Copper Mountain, that's on that list, um, etc. They'll they'll still want to be at those local parks where those rates will still apply. So

So probably an increased rate, but I don't know what the number is. Wow. And this is just for those are coming on this year, correct? Yeah. Just for the new parks, just for like people who are making one off reservations. Well, you're still going to have the contractual agreements to come in and negotiate.

So, and I guess that's where I'm confused. We could raise it for the residents, but that's not who's talking about using these new fields. These are the contracts. And that's why if you're giving it to them for $10 a day right now and you give them the new fields at that when you go next year they'll just I think if you're going to set those you say yeah if you want this extra space it's not $10 a day 25 or 50 whatever it's new space you decide if you want to pay that. You just got to go back to our conversation with Jeff then and I can't remember what we talked about. We said it was coming to council. It would have to come back to council decision

and that's something that's midFebruary as well. So it's like right now do you have a proposed rate? I I don't I don't know what others I mean we've got again you're talking about if you're talking about the contracts right now it's $10 a day. If you go 15, it's a 50% increase, but it's 15. It's $5 a day more. I think that a day or just No, it's a day. They pay a day. So that's why And if we're talking about raising the resident, that's kind of a one-off. That's not really going to do it because most of that money was not from the residents. It was the contracts. Okay?

And whatever you do, somebody's going to be mad at you. I'll just I want to be to be very clear. Now, I do think Monument's a little bit different story with Rugby because Ryan there was this big thing about them using that field, but that has that's not reflected in any agreements that But I don't think we ever said it was free. No, no, no, no. They're not expecting it free. No, no. But have they already told their players what the yearly program cost is? And they've already collected it. So if Yeah, I don't know. If like the prices increase, are are they going to be stuck? Do they rent space from us now? School district. So they don't they don't have our fee now.

So whatever we tell them, they're paying $20 a day right now. Tuesday, right? At the school district two. take your truck. And they're going to have they're probably 50% residents, too. This this is tough. It's like I you want to be sympathetic and Yeah.

to the to the children and to the sports and the the programs we grew up on. And then that cost is you have to be I mean our we sit here as fiduciaries of the city and try to help that out. And so we're the taxpayers are paying for it regardless one way or another.

Well, if I be that's the main point for me Teddy is that the taxpayers are paying for it and when the organiz organized groups come in and monopolize it the people who are paying for it don't get to use it. Yeah, the good news is 75% of the participants are residents, so that's a bonus, but still, what were you going to say, Lauren?

I mean, I guess I have a little PTSD on this, too, because the first year that when I was running that West Jordan Soccer League and the city ran these numbers, that's when they pulled that soccer field. They started looking at these numbers and the youth lost. They pulled that soccer field. That's why the that's why that complex is closing because they started looking at these numbers and it's it's it looks ridiculous. It looks awful. Like we subsidize a big part, but now there's a complex closing because they looked at the numbers and they weren't they were subsidizing a lot and now that field's gone. That complex is gone. Yeah. We It's tough, right? I'm just saying that's the B I watched the complex. We lost 16 fields in this county because

what are they doing with the space instead? has to it's going to dirt the contract also that contracts up. It has to go back to dirt. Was that the the airport one? Yeah, but they they didn't negotiate it. They didn't renegotiate it because they just it was a basically a reason for them to say it's too expensive. So, but the other thing that happened there is the airport by federal law has to get market rate and and they couldn't renew the contract at the fee that city was paying previous. So because I they having worked with airports, I I had a some conversations back and forth and that was the pressure from the federal government, the FAA. Any airport property has to be rented at market rate, right? So they had to look at what

the supposed market rate would be. And then I think that was one of the ones where you couldn't pay the field 10 bucks an hour and got to pay what FAA says that land is worth, right? Um, so there multiple factors, but once they start doing that analysis, it was done. As I said, you're never going to get to 100% on a field like this. And it and again, we can run some numbers. I don't When did we set the $10? Probably 2017.

So, it's probably gone up 30% since then, just inflation wise. And again, I'm not arguing against, let me be clear. I'm not arguing against an increase. I just don't know that it's this year without the applications are already coming in. Even the new fields to me, they're not a I mean, I'm not saying they're not a premium. They're new. They're new, but I wouldn't say they're But have we are are they out there for rental? Are people applying for them? So, we haven't we haven't put this out yet. We've talked to some of the leagues that have asked about them. Are they coming online this year? We said yes. I I just think you if you're going to do it new, but it's up to you. I'm just my professional opinion. If you're going to do it, do it. And I'm one voice and I'm sound like I'm a lone voice. So that's what I said. I'm

It's okay. That's just my two cents. It's the fight this year when it's brand new and they don't know any difference or next year when you increase it on them. Do it this year and say there will be an increase next year like we're doing with all the other ones. I don't know. It's up to you guys.

Timing. Let me think. Timing, too. We're not meeting again till after February. We're past the deadline. I mean, we may be if we have a public hearing on it. I'm starting to worry about the date with the dates we're going to start committing to people. I I would I would I would so for time and essence of this year's and registration and club fees and dues and all the XYZ's that go behind the scenes that we don't have to do and increasing the field rate by $10 for these premium ones or these newer ones and then next year increasing I think we give them a runway of a year. We just have a flyer that in every agreement or negotiation contract knowing that hey next year

our rate increase or a fee increase. I do wonder how much is out there already in fees because if I'm a league I already have my fees for next year I'll say. Yeah I know. So then they can't pass it on this year by this point. They'd have to eat it this year and then it'd be grudge them and then it would be it's eating their profit. These guys don't operate on big profits. They're slim or they're sponsoring kids and stuff. Yeah. key to this would be education and so it's not arbitrary. it it's like factors and I think that's like you said if we start meeting with the groups maybe it's just I mean I hesitate to put more staff time right but I think we do have to start educating them show them this and understand there's

there's a reason we're not just doing it because we want to make money we're just trying to cover our gap a little bit okay so for the new parks no I think I think I think I think you do it all at once for the contracts and then just keep the the same for res non-res but but I heard we need to tell them yes when we're doing this be aware you will have an increase next year next year yeah so plan accordingly we'll and we'll notice them like in public meetings and hearings that of the fee and we'll post it on so on our website and stuff like that so when they come to club sports again are you okay with that I'm trying to get to it

yeah yeah yeah I I'm okay I also think that it might be a a good idea to help us kind of uh understand the economics of it as the parent paying the fee. If we could have an idea of what the fee what the fee is, how many kids are in this organization, what the organization is. So we can look at it and be like, "All right, well, for you know, whatever this football association is in order to cover the increase costs that we may project out, it's going to cost each kid an extra five bucks a year or seven." Like to have an idea of that.

There's a there's a spectrum of teams though. So there's going to be a big variety between like the entry level stuff. But um yeah, for me the biggest reason is like they have already collected their fees probably for this year. Yeah. Jared, are you okay with that approach this year?

We beat this dead horse. Yeah. Okay. Good. It's a hard Oh, it's it's a hard decision. And again, I'm not I can't I think we have to go up by this year. We're saving money on fertilizer. Okay. 2.6 update on parks wreck department fertilization. Grab this clicker here.

I will be brief. It's way past my bedtime. We can move to the end. All right. So, he's pulling this up. Um,

just jump to the map real quick just so you guys um are aware of the area that we're discussing here. This is citywide. This is what we maintain. This is what we mow and fertilize. It's roughly 8 million just under 8 million square feet. Roughly 180 acres is what we're uh maintaining here with and fertilizing. Um so a little background um we we discussed this first last year this time last year uh talked about bringing our fertilization program inhouse just due to the inefficiencies that we were uh experiencing seeing with with the contractor that we were we were using um excuse me we we thought we could do a lot better job in house than what they were doing. So, we we brought it to council, uh discussed it, and got the go-ahhead to move forward uh this season, this past season, uh with our fertilization program in house. Uh we were budgeting roughly $144,000 uh for that contracted service. Um and ultimately, our goal, like I said, was to improve our um efficiency and our end product that we were getting with with this program. So, um, to me, uh, bringing this in-house this last year was the best thing we could have done. Um, I I have seen the results. I don't know if it's been noticeable to, uh, the public or any of you if you've been out there and seen it. But, as we've been keeping a close eye on things, uh, we've definitely seen our, uh, the overall health of our turf increase. It's just a uh, deeper green, uh, thicker thicker thatch. um everything about it has um had had improved. Um and I think I just speaks to um the fact that we just weren't getting what we were paying for with the with the contractor. Um our our high use areas were uh a lot more durable and bounced back uh a lot quicker than they had in the past. um the weeds that we were seeing, the dandelions and other weeds that uh are

in the grass were greatly uh reduced from what we had seen in the past as well. So um to me this was the best thing that we could have done and I I apologize. I wanted to put some you know satellite imagery up there that would demonstrate uh the difference uh you you can you could visually see the difference in the in the turf and its coloration and the quality but just the variation in the different satellite imagery. it just doesn't show up on the satellite images. So, I apologize. I wanted to uh be able to show that to you, but it just doesn't show it just didn't translate into satellite imagery. Um, so there was some great operational benefit. Um, excuse me. So, um, it it allowed us to just have uh direct control and and control over the quality of of the program. um the coordination that we were um with our watering schedules and Mother Nature's watering schedules, that was an added benefit where we're not having to communicate with a contractor and try and communicate our watering schedules with them and they're kind of on a on their own schedule because they have so many other parks and areas that they're maintaining. So, uh, for us to have complete control over when we're out there in the parks, when we're applying, um, and we can coordinate that with with the watering schedules, that was a, um, a win for us as well, which which allowed for a lot better nutrient uptake and a lot, uh, and we were able to reduce our, our waste quite a bit as, as well. Um, there were a lot lot of increased efficiencies with our our staffing as well. So, one of the selling points of bringing this in house, if you'll remember last year, was that um we would be able to hire a full-time employee to to come in and and manage his program. Half of his time uh would be spent uh managing the fertilization program and then the other half of the year we'd still have his um services to use elsewhere within within the

department. Um and that played out pretty much how we uh we anticipated it with with the budget. So, we projected, this was our 2025 projections. Uh, we projected roughly $143,000, which is right at, you know, what we had budgeted for. Um, with 88,000 of that being uh going towards payroll and 55,000 um of that being material. Uh, and then our actual numbers, as you can see over here on the right, were pretty close to that. uh we did we did see a little bit of a a savings there, but um of the payroll uh roughly half of it was uh attributed to uh the fertilization program and then we were able to use the remainder um for other services within the department. So um to me it makes sense to move forward again this season with uh with the in-house services. Um, and obviously there's some alternatives to consider if you'd like, but uh, if you have any questions, I'm happy to try and answer those now, but I would recommend that we move forward um, as we did this last year. I think it, uh, provided a great benefit to the city and our and our parks.

I'll just say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Because um, programs like this and changes like this work because you have great staff. And so I'm like I think it's awesome that you found a way to do something better that serves the city better with, you know, like similar resources, right? Yeah. So really appreciate that that initiative to look at that and see where a change could be made and make it happen.

And I just want to give a shout out to Kaden Webb. He is our parks employee who's kind of taken this and made it his own and he's he's fully invested in doing, you know, the best job that he can. So, um, he he does a great job and I think I think we'll even see some more some increased efficiency this year as he's kind of learned the program and and he's getting better at what he does and more efficient. I think we'll possibly see some more cost savings. Um, even this year. So, yeah, we're 40 grand. Also, awesome. Yep. Fantastic.

Yes, Shannon do a great job. That's what we should point out. As we add more grass, when we talk about savings, we may be spending more, but we think we'll save. I I look, every time you add grass, you're going to add more cost. So, trying to keep that down at the same time you're adding fields. Um, don't just judge it by how much the actual dollar is. It's really how many square foot we're doing. Remove grass, too, if you notice. It's like every mile of road the maintenance cost goes down by a half a cent. If you think there's other areas in which we might be able to do it better then Yeah. And that's forward thinking, right? Not just letting the company do whatever.

Yeah. Let's let's take a look at other things that could be out there. Yep. Good work. Okay. Love it. Thank you. Thank you for bringing around five hours. Sorry you had to sit through an hourong fee discussion. No worries. Yeah. Okay. Love it. Okay. 2.7 December 2025 status report turned. So last year council

um status is good. Did well last year. Uh this is a monthly one. Uh no huge changes. um got a good update on water hollows. I also included with this the annual uh kind of summary of 2025 went up about 2 and a half% on our population and sales tax dispersed was an increase from the calendar year 24 about 2.8% percent and yeah, things look good. Permit's up, CO's down, uh, in terms of percent growth. So, that's kind of interesting to me. The leading indicator ramping up means, you know, more cos to come. Uh, see how long the lag is. It's something it's a back burner on the back burner project for me. Yeah. Any questions? Any comments

on those permits issued? Are you That's total permits issued, not just new construction. Correct. It's all

I like the total housing units was that we were up quite a we were at total housing 640 or something 630 which is uh almost We were at like 440 something last year. So that's the CO's decreasing. We didn't have as many starts last year. We've had more this year. Um so I since everybody assumes we built housing, I guess we didn't build as many, but our number of permits are still there, right? We're we're open. I was sick for a month. I think

I've seen the picture of you with the hammer and the and out there doing it. It's out there. I don't know how to price a hammer. So, I just have a tiny request. The on the next one. Um, sorry, this is so small, but like a little more variation in the colors on the green. Yes. Or like people with old eyes. Well, I think the projector right. That's fair. I appreciate you. I think sometimes these the the defaults they give you, it's like who came up with these because they're so they're gradient. They're gradient. It's like I don't know why you did that. Why not? Aren't they bright? Well, they're pretty.

Thank you for paying attention enough to notice that you can't tell what's going on. I appreciate that. I'm going to ask a weird question too because the previous person that asked this question sat in this seat for me. At what like was called for second class city 65,000 I don't know there's much difference at what point does that transition happen you supposed to so I I so really the difference disappeared they took out a couple years ago Jared gave a presentation okay and he said really but it happens at 65,000 and that will be from the chem gardener okay

and the population data uh that will be as of we get that what about May? But it's for the June the July one previous. So our estimate that we show you is kind of a rolling a rolling estimate. Uh I don't think we're there yet. One of one of the things you're going to see uh some of those estimates are using they they've been using building starts. We use certificates of occupancy. Uh, I think they're going to try and shift to that because that's a better indicator. Like if you look, we we started those apartments down by Le two years ago or three years ago, right? They haven't finished.

They were in 2023 when we issued those permits. They're not done yet, right? As soon as they're done, RCOs will pick them up. They may already be counting. So, we'll just see what happens. We've been pretty close. Trevor's estimates are are tracking, you know, within a few hundred of what they come out with. And and when you're talking 65,000, that's a pretty that's pretty tight. That percent is pretty. I was just, like I said, just I didn't know what that meant. If there were, Mark, because I didn't know if there new codes, we had to follow new things. John, I think it was all they want to

they they first class cities in a first class county, if you have an airport, there's all sorts of things you have to do. Uh or a research university. What's the other one they use to zing um another city here in our valley? But uh I don't there's not much anymore. There used to be some more on the structure, but it's all now just I it is hard though to to be proud to say we're a secondass city. I think we're first class. I don't care about their ratings. It's just I'm just curious about that. Okay. Okay. I do love that we had 210 businesses. Vibes. I like your good vibes.

Vibes. That's all I want. You're that new code enforcement guy that just smiled. Smile. Jake. Jake. Smile. Jake. Okay. Thank you, Trevor. Okay. 2.8 legislative update. Um, so there's just a few bills that we wanted to put on your radar. Uh, of the 600 50 plus. Thank you.

Um, on the land use side, we have uh Ward's bill HB 184. This is the priority land use bill for starter homes that would totally preempt uh zoning regulations if they meet the definition of starter home and the essentially the the lot size of 50 5400 square feet and they can submit it either in a narrative or sketches and sketch isn't defined. Sketch is not defined. Narrative is not defined. Nor do we find out there is no age requirement on who draws a stitch. That was a question. Yeah, that was a funny question. Um,

do you really think it'll go anywhere? I don't know. Filmore uh is a co-sponsor on the Senate side. Um, he Ward ran a similar bill last year that

uh ultimately didn't go anywhere, but I he just keeps pushing it. Filmore is obviously a big supporter of that. Um, so we'll see. Uh Tusher is running uh HB239 a kind of a strange it creates a committee of mayors in Salt Lake County that uh if you're that they have to create annexation policy maps essentially for the whole community and a a municipality cannot annex area unless it complies with that committee's plan that they do. Um so essentially we give them some land use authority

in concept I think it it municipalities have weird boundaries and you know they can go over streets and you look at uh riverman this spot you know it doesn't or up north where south wraps around. Yes. So I get the understanding of it. I uh I think it it it's probably good planning principles, but giving land use authority to uh that committee I think is concerning. So I think you see a lot of fighting too between the city. Oh very well arm wrestling. Yeah. And and politicking behind the scenes.

Yep. And it's $300,000 for Salt Lake County to to stand up the commission. Um, so I don't think David knows the position 300,000 for the count the staff. Uh, do you want to talk about Wooie? Woodson wants to talk about Wood wants to.

So this is HB41. Um, and I wanted to bring this up because in the league yesterday, and Whittison happened to be here and we were talking about it, the league on Monday at LPC, um, Jared had said that they were going that they were proposing an appeal process for municipalities to appeal the state if if it was rated a five and above that the municipality could appeal to the state to make it a three or four if these parameters were in line. And when I brought it up to Whittison, he's like, "That's never going to that's not going to work." Well, I don't know. That's not going to work. But um Yeah. Are you talking about the WOOI zone, right?

Yeah. The WOOI zone piece. But I House Bill 41 is the construction and fire code update to the 2024 International WOOI Code. So, um, if that happens, then if that passes, then I guess you guys would have the choice.

Technically, there's nothing explicit in the bill that says you have to adopt this. Um but there is a little nuance there that if the state identifies that as their um their adopted code um according to House Bill 48 and our CD CWS agreement we have to have that same code or Haramman has to adopt that same code. Yeah. I did we adopt our didn't we just say we use the states codes of for uh building that is a good question whether it's just I'm trying to remember how we we adopted this back in like 16 or seven we we were one of the earlier 17

adopters but that was our map back uh we now need to adjust it and it does that code actually does define better how you would identify your WOOI zone and it's a little bit more data driven. Um it has to be documented findings of fact on how you identify that WOOI zone and where the code would apply. So that would take a little bit of work but we have the UWAP map that's is that five and above that's the general uh guidance from forestry fire state lands that if um

can you go back to the website John? When you when you look at that structure exposure exposure score in that map layer uh the risk layer of five or risk areas five and above would be considered uh in that wooi zone. Um that that can be it's kind of uh your decision on what that looks like but that's the guidance and it also can be ground truth. It needs to are you looking at so this this actually this is a very common thing that happens this actually what you're looking at is called the high-risk boundary map this has to do with house bill 48 is they're two different maps

so if you go to themes map themes go to themes up there on the top left corner down he's got he can't see his mouse to the right oh god that. Oh yeah. So that this probably be the default one. So un deselect that high-risisk boundary map. This this is the one that I talked about a couple weeks ago where this has to do with House Bill 48. It does affect some of the Herman residents. Go to smooth structure structure exposure score. Maybe not in a smooth one, just the structure exposure score. Yeah. And this would show you uh down in the references there. You could probably

throw in the municipal boundary as well. And then when you hover over this, I have the smooth one that you can see. I don't see that's all we've been able to see. Oh, really? Yeah. I have a different I have a different login. So that that one's fine. I got brag. It's called advanced. We can't handle advance. I'll see if I can get you access. I I applied this, but I still can't get it.

So anyway, when you hover over those different um colors there, it's going to show you at the bottom tabs where the structure exposure score is. And that guidance is five or above would be is basically the guidance for where your WOOI zone where the code would apply. Um this would actually meet that documented findings of fact if that's referenced in in the ordinance where We're using this map layer as a identifying the WOOI zone because this is science and datadriven information. Um, but it would probably impact a little bit larger area than what we have currently. Put that over in the cove area.

Yeah. Close. It's hard. It's hard to see, but most back towards you a little bit. Radiant colors right there. Can you have the municipal boundaries on there too, Jonathan? On the references on the lower left. There you go. Maybe that could help. Yep. And then you can change the transparency, too, so it doesn't bleed it out. He has advanced everyone. He's been on this side once or twice. Yeah. I don't have a reference point. Is the white hole in the middle Black Ridge? Yes, that's Black Ridge. So, I mean, yeah, almost the entire community. Oh my god.

So, give the radiance darker on the um count municipal boundaries. Yeah, that might help. See, there you go. It kind of blurs out though. Well, you can see it. High country is all red. Yeah. High country is 88. My gosh. and real high level like what does this mean for us? Yeah. Well, if if it does pass then um in effect we're going to have to adopt my house the 2024 WOI code. And that's like I said it doesn't explicit explicitly say that. Neither does House Bill 48. But what they what that does say is

if Herman wants to enter into an agreement with Forestry Fire State Lands, you have to adopt the code that they have. And we CWS agreement is you talk about that agreement that's been pending forever. Oh my goodness. The I'm I'm going to get it next week. Promise you. Really? No. You should say it'll come so next month and then there's never a

right. I I just barely got during this meeting. I got a theou which references the agreement which we don't have and is expired. So, I'm I'm hoping that that's coming at some point. But that CWS agreement is is very important for Haramman to have in place. And it sort of like an insurance policy where uh the participation commitment is the inkind work that we do and um your team gathers some data from residents on what they do to reduce risk and and my my division comes out and we have training and we do mitigation work to meet that in kind. And in return, the state will pay for any fires that we have, including the aircraft costs, which are very extraordinary and can be um very extraordinary. So that's that's sort of the give and take that that agreement. It's very important, I think.

And is part of this that feed to property owners who are in the range or is that something separate? So, a totally separate thing that has to do with House Bill 48. And that other kind of amoeba looking map is the residents will be affected by House Bill 48 and the fee structure that's applied to those areas. Okay. And they still don't have that fee structure. Correct.

So, the I don't know the dollar amounts, but this right now the fee structure is based on um taxable structures on the property um and is uh based off of square footage. And then in 2028 after the assessment period is done, they'll be put in three different classifications based on that square footage as well. So high, medium, and low of the high-risisk areas. And then the fee structure will be based off of those classifications

and adjustable due to mitigation efforts, right? and adjustable based on if they do those mitigation efforts and stuff, never really being able to fully remove themselves from that particular high-risk boundary. But and there's some insurance implications as well. Yeah. From from the building code, if we we probably need to amend it to say we're adopting the latest whatever the state has. um you would have to decide how do you apply it here because that can require the fire sprinkling of a house and doing some other things like that. There are some requirements.

One thing about House Bill 48 is though it it explicitly excludes the automatic fire sprinkler section section 602 from the from this what they're adopting. Yeah. And that's because it's already in the fire code. It's already referenced there and that eliminates any conflict between the two codes. So as a city say our city-owned areas are gullies vulture like gulches our interface hits the property of homeowners are we required to do anything to mitigate that or

so one of the things I think we need to start doing and this you're going to hear this as we bring as we're talking through the budget is we need to focus some of that emergency management an effort we're doing on vegetation uh fire mitigation work, right? Somebody doing that some take some money and and start dedicating every year to trying to address the the having funds to address high-risk areas. There's no perfect way to protect a community to have it always protected. But if you can if you've got high fuel loads in an area and you can go through with a bunch of goats and clean it out in the summer that'll help reduce doesn't mean you won't it won't go away but you can reduce the fire and the intensity of that fire. I think that's where as a city because we own so much of that hillside through our grazing contracts, we need to uh I would I think we need somebody who can focus on it more than what we've been able to do with we get to it when we when we can kind of thing. So

Wendy would be happy because she's been managing that contractor or Justin has and we just need somebody who can actually do it all the time. Can we use llamas instead of goats? Uh, goats are just super super effective because they eat everything. You had poison oak up there, they eat it, too. They don't care. Anything else on this one? Uh, not

we need to we need to update our map and we need to make sure we our code either we're if because I'm not seeing it in here that we do the I know we did. I may I just may be missing it trying to do this on the fly, but we just we need to look at our code. There's a couple things that are happening and I think with the with 48 that has already passed, we need to start looking at what that means for our residents. And I I don't know how often the state is going to relook at these boundaries. Like once you have developed and you've moved stuff, this is an ember load, but it seems like if there's, hey, this is all this fire could be coming through here, it would start pushing back.

Yeah, that's a great question. We've asked that. Um I think there this is this is an issue and changing pixels on the map has been something we've talked about a lot even with the mitigation e efforts whatever it is goats or cows or when we're coming in and doing mechanical fuel reduction that's not necessarily changing the pixels where it should and I think and they're fully aware of that. That's my hope is that as things develop this map moves along with all of that as well. I can't be for sure that that's going to happen, but this the map the WOOI zone map according to our that's referenced in your the code um should be a reeval reevaluated every three years.

Three years. Yeah. Okay. We have House Bill 381, which is the electric mobility device amendments. Troy or Cody, it's the ebikes. It's HB 381. I read through it preliminarily today and didn't get too deep down into it, but I think they're trying to control Yeah, feels like a lot more enforcement.

Yeah, the unlicensed driver. I was interested, Todd, and maybe you know more about this that it says we've been impounding them, but it says that an officer may hold a verb with parent or guardian to respond if the drivers under 16 are not class D license. So that might be something we want to talk about because that just puts it right back on the street. Was this supporting kind of the direction we've been going though? This bill kind of Yeah. I think it starts to focus down on what the issue is across the state, right?

We've experienced it here because people couldn't afford to buy $7,000 bikes for their kids where other places, you know, don't experience it as much. But we certainly have had that problem along with South Jordan uh and Riverton. The uh the other thing the current bill does gives municipalities explicit authority to not allow them on trails, not allow them sidewalks, not allow them in park. So it's long. So I haven't read through it in depth, but I won't be a

It does a lot of does a lot of really good things. There's an enforcement piece in there that we need to flush out um that essentially allows for the siron type vehicles to be operated on a highway as long as they have a motorcycle endorsement and the say the security certificate. But there's no way for us to enforce whether or not that's happening because we can't stop them for that as a primary violation. So there there's a couple of enforcement pieces, but it it does a lot of really good cleanup and definition stuff that we've frankly been asking for for a couple years. Um, is this the one with the 20 the question about a 20 because you have to be 21 to do something and Yeah. Well, and the Yeah,

that's the drink and drive yourself. You you can't 20-year-old who's Yeah, they could live on their own with that. There there are a couple of enforcements. It's just some it's it's I think it it's addressing they're recognizing the problem. There's just some work to be done. There was a helmet and I think there was a class two or three um they were trying to change something the class two or three definition. I don't remember exactly what

trying to clean up essentially to clearly delineate between electric bicycles versus electric assisted scooters versus the issue that we're seeing with electric motorcycles which is the primary problem that we're having. And it does address in there in depth about tampering with one. You can't rent, give, loan or any way otherwise have somebody get one that has been tampered with. And was there anything in there about multiple people on the same scooter? Scooter cuz I see that. Not that I remember seeing, but that's already prohibited.

Scooter endorsement and it's built for that. um 10 kids on the I don't know. Okay, that might be a good I thought on the scooter thing there was something about multiple going to stop it. Okay, just a few more and then we'll we'll be done. Um SB97 McKay's property tax rate amendments passed favorably out of Senate revenue and taxation today. That's the one that caps 5%. There's an amendment that was pushed through on a 322 vote that exempts school districts from that cap. That's hilarious. Which we thought that was the whole point is they were mad at the school districts and that was the amendment. That's what passed.

I I think the league got snookered a little bit on that cuz they thought it wasn't going anywhere so they didn't even go testify. So that's a that is become a really bad bill. That's not good. Yeah. That's because if read the thing they added exempt schools and then it says if you get you're supported by this state. So it's really it's just the school districts are maybe it's rural school district. I didn't dig that much but school districts are one of the groups that are exempt. So that would be one

considering that too they were mad at well they're probably mad at Salt Lake County. Uh the final one I have from today is House Bill 236, which is Peterson's truth and taxation bill that requires cities to show two different budgets if they're going to raise taxes and publicly announce a truth and taxation during May 1st through June 8th prior to. So your two different budgets would be a baseline without tax increase and an alternate showing exactly the new money spent. support from cities. I'm surprised LPC results all show that that's the one they want. It's the least hated. It's the least hated

of all the tax bills. That's the least. Uh three really quick. Uh two on immunity. There's Gwen's bill which would provide immunity to first responders. This is in response to a court case that came out um where it was an issue in that case. What's the bill on that? Um HB79. I feel like that's an operator. Yes. Uh yeah. Um the personal injury attorneys in the world would not would uh HB 355. This is Clansy's bill who has a a co-sponsor in the Senate. I can't remember who. Oh, Brammer. Yeah.

So, this is what it states. Um, a private individual may bring a civil action under this section against a governmental entity that either through the action or inaction permits a third party to create, contribute to, or maintain a public or private nuisance on property owned or controlled by the governmental entity. So, this gives a private right of action to sue a city for a nuisance. Um, and it and it's an exception to the governmental immunities act. So very bad bill. Um we it would be very difficult for us to maintain all the property that we are responsible for.

Is this in response to like an anecdote or something? Do you know the history? I think this is about homeless issues. But I mean, you could you could foresee an occupy wall street go back then or they were going in parks and just wouldn't leave exercising their first amendment rights and then you're like, okay, can I kick them out? Well, they're a nuisance to me. They're hurting my business. Yeah. That you're just we're just in a rock and a hard place. It's it's a bad bill.

Yeah. And it can be applied in so many different ways. I think people have an idea of what a nuisance could be and then use this to to try to do something about it. Last one is um Harper. This SB64 has a grammar bill out there. Um there are some concerning elements, but there's also some good things in there. Gives us a little bit more time to respond. Um, I went through it pretty extensively and sent some concerns that I've had over the years in grandma to uh to Jerini and he met with Harper. Harper was um inclined to include some of these issues like the governmental entities have discretion to wave fees for grammar requests. Um but then you can appeal it and appeal it and appeal it to the government records office to the district court even though we have that discretion and they can overturn it. Um so uh things like that. So it's a good I I think overall it's a it's a good bill. It does require like a one page summary of and training on on grammar but um overall I don't think it's uh um I think there's a lot more good in it than than bad. So

would our city personally be heard of with the provision about how like you could refuse to get a hearing or you could be refused a hearing for a similar that's some of the language we are cleaning up. Um that if the city has the same facts then it could be denied but it's hard to say that our facts are the exact same as facts. So yeah, um but that would apply to us like we would be affected by that potentially. Yeah. Okay. Um if we get the revisions that we asked for um it wouldn't I I think it would be a good thing because if we're dealing with the same issue from on the same set of facts then we want the same outcome. Okay.

Um we're Yeah. So we just don't want the same outcome as maybe Riverton that has slightly different facts. How about the language in there that talks about it's good that the that the person applying for the request has to provide some specificity. Yes. However, if they can't, we have to assist them in doing that. Like how how we feel like that's going to affect staff here.

Yeah, it's always great to have definitions. And that was one thing that I put in my comments uh when it first came out. Um but yeah, flagging it where the city recorder then has to help them or it's required of the city recorder to give them reason or to what to help them submit a request with reasonable specificity. Uh the language that we're proposing um in response is that uh the city recorders can give some guidance. So, it's not because one, there's a liability issue if we're giving advice and and that sort of thing, but it's another thing. We do this all the time. Um, even recently where

we need some more here and you know what, tell me exactly what you're looking for. Um, and that is very common, I think, with recorders and I think that's a good practice because we we don't want to waste our time on a quest that we don't really know what they want. So, or it's overly broad or that's uh I think the media will probably push back quite a bit. Um, so that's why I bring it up to it. And as you all know, there's ton more out there, but we keep filming every day.

The league really depends on Todd. Jared, I guess, depends on Jared calls me all the time. Like, yeah, he called me at 9:00 last night. Do you have a second? Sure. I don't think he wants to see. I'm putting my Yeah, I'm putting my daughter down to bed talking to him. Yeah, I'll finish this paragraph in this book after I'm done. I promise. Okay. Well, thank you everybody for the building. That brings us to the end of our general meeting. We still have to close. Yeah.

Okay. I'll look for a motion to Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cody can say got it right there. I'll make a motion to temporary recess city council work meeting to go into close meeting for the following purposes as provided in Utah State code and 52-4-205. A discussion of character, professional competence and physical mental health of an individual. C strategy session discuss pending and reasonable intermittent communication. Okay. Teddy. Second by Matt. Uh Teddy. Yes. Matt. Yep.

Yes. Jared. I guess she there. Somebody's sipping up. Yes. So, we're going to close. We'll stay here. We need We'll start with litigation. We can talk. Are you only have so many left? You're not making me regret my decision. Do you have any I'm trying to speed up your decision. Kyle. Uh, no. No, I think we're okay.

Thank you. Thanks. That's my favorite person. Said no one ever gave me a discount.