Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Well, Al is with us this evening, the owner of the property, as well as Lisa from TAP, who's the project architect. I can start by just doing a brief overview of the project just to bring the board up to speed. So Al was before the planning board in 2022. He received site plan approval in 2022 for essentially reopening the gas station and doing some improvements to it. And during the construction of the project, he made some site changes that has resulted in him needing to come back to the planning board. So we've brought the project back to the planning board to show the various improvements. that he's made that and basically from the time the project first started in 2022 we were under a different type of zoning code and here we are today under a newer zoning code which now has us having a number of variance requests this evening. So Just a little background here, the project's located at the corner of, generally the corner of 5th and 125th Street. Many of you know this up on the north end. It was previously a service station and gas station. What Al has completed and what we've actually been working on, based upon additional comments from staff and the engineering department is doing some additional improvements to the site. I'm gonna walk through those quickly and then we can jump right into the variances. But I wanna bring you up to speed to where we got, how we got here. So previously there was two curb cuts along 125th Street. If you go out there today, those curb cuts are still out there today. As part of this project, we're gonna end up closing off all those entrances onto 125th Street. This is a conversation that we had with planning, which there was a lot of concerns over the movements off of 125th, where it's tucked in between those two signals. So we've taken that off the plan. So access is going to be from, and there's a lot of different names for this road, but I'm going to say North Skadacoke Road or New Skadacoke Road, you know, page left here. We'll have an access point there, and then we're going to have another access point off of Northern Drive. You'll notice we have some green space and stuff highlighted up on this plan. It's important to note that. We work closely with the engineering department. We went out, we did some site visits to evaluate what's going on with some of the traffic and such. And we're doing an improvement to the Northern Drive access point here to create this nose. We worked out some of this geometry with Chris Marini really to kind of prevent this kind of like cut through situation that you have here across those intersections really kind of bring people to the road edge as well. And most importantly, we're creating road definition all behind the project. If you go out there today, it's basically a sea of asphalt from the building that's there now all the way to the alley. If I go back here, you can see. It's really just wide open. Cars are going all over the place. While we were on site that day, we witnessed some of it as well. And then lastly, and which is probably the first item, which is it relates to the use variance, centers around the pickup window. So he has a pickup window as part of the project where he has a Nashville chicken, which basically does sandwiches. And this pickup window is going to be located on the backs. I call it the backside of the building, but it's basically opposite 125th Street. Previously, it was located on the side of New Scatticoke Road. So he moved that over to here. PB John Gerstle, which then in turn changed how the the the the drive up to the window and stacking would be and under the previous zoning code. PB John Gerstle, There wasn't any provisions for that now there are, and so here, here we are this evening, but it's not your conventional drive through so normally if you look at a drive through. You go, you order at a window or at a window or some sort of message board. Place your order, they make your food, you pick it up at the window. That's not the way this one operates. This is strictly a pickup window. It's an app-based business that you can go in the building and order a sandwich as well, but you would receive a message through the app that your order is ready for pickup. So you don't go to the window until your order is ready for pickup. And so, and Al, I'll let you speak to it, but that's my general understanding. We did get some supporting information from Nashville Chicken as well as it relates to the percentages of their business and pickup. Yes, sir, Mr. Chair.

No, I'm just trying to keep up with your pace. Oh, I'm really sorry. Very hard time. Okay. I've got a couple of questions.

Yes, sir.

Let's go back. to the curb cuts that you referenced on 125th Street.

Correct.

Now, I did two drive-bys and a walk around. Did I hear you correctly when I thought I heard you say the curb cuts for entrance or exit on the 125th Street side will be closed off.

That is correct.

Got it. Now let's go to the old location versus the new location of the drive up window. You lost me.

Sure. The previous location of the drive up window. So if we look at the building. would be on North Skaticoke. I keep calling North Skaticoke, but it's New Skaticoke, sorry. Be located here on this side of the building. So that roadside.

Got it.

Okay. You're out there on the site. When you get to what I'm calling the back of the building, which is there's, you would have seen a window on the back of that building, just a single window. that's where the pickup window is. That is on this space.

So it would be directly behind the main entrance on the back side.

That is correct. So if you were at the front door, it's on the back.

Okay. So to that, so my order's ready. I'm coming from north, south, east, and west. There's four of me. How do I get to that window? Get me through every entrance to the window and out back into the street.

Sure. So the nice thing is, yeah, I'll do that with my fingers. But the nice thing is that drive up, the lane for it is just for the window. It doesn't interface with the other side of the site or any of the gas or the front of house operations from that perspective. So if you have a sandwich order to pick up, You don't necessarily have to come over here. You're really coming in off of here.

How do I get in off of there?

Absolutely. That's where we're going next. I just wanted to make sure we got clarification on that. So lots of different ways. If you're coming from the neighborhoods or the alley, for instance, you would simply come on to... New Scatticoke Road, make sure I said that correctly, heading towards the signal that is at New Turnpike and 125th Street, right? So that access point enters in off of New Scatticoke here. You would take a right turn into that.

And then exit, get me out of there.

Exit, then you would come out onto Northern Drive.

So taking a right onto Northern is going to be fine. Am I going to get jammed up? taking a left with, because that's a quirky area there. If I got to take a left.

This way.

Yeah.

Yep. So that's part of what some of the improvements that we were making as it relates to some of the traffic improvements. So I'll explain. So when you're out there today, were out there and you walk the site today that entrance at northern drive is essentially at northern drive it isn't it's it's just on the other side of the sidewalk so as part of our plan we redefined the nose working with engineering of how the roadway actually is. So we changed the road geometry there so that we're trying to take that angle, this cut-through angle that goes down Northern Drive, and we're making them curl and kind of get perpendicular to the road versus at that strange angle. We'd much rather have that scenario there. And then that moves the access off of that intersection a little bit, brings it out and over. So there is space to make the left when you would come out of there.

And is it, okay, so is the traffic flow coming from the north, coming south, Are they going to be veering off to the right? And I'm just I'm not for or against anything. Sure. I'm just thinking about left hand turns and traffic in Troy.

So, yes, of course. So if I was going to the drive through, once I understand how Nashville chicken and Al's business works, I if I'm coming down the hill from Gurley Avenue and I'm coming from that way and I'm coming down Northern Drive, I'm not going on to Northern Drive here. I'm sorry. I'm coming on to 125th Street. I'm taking a left at the signal in, and I'm coming into the drive up there.

Well, it's a turnpike.

coming off, coming off.

If I came out of there, it might even be, perhaps I'm just throwing this out there. It might be like, sometimes a car washes. It's like, you know, right hand, right hand turn only. And then you got to go back around the block. I'm just trying to create safety with, with lights because understood.

Yep. And that's, and that's a possibility too. You could most certainly take a right out of here.

Yeah. that's easy.

And then, and then come to the signal and, and make that movement as well.

I'm just concerned because I live in Troy. So, you know, obviously people are doing a lot of other things while they're driving besides driving.

Well, I can tell you if you're out there today, they're doing a lot of other things for sure.

Yeah.

Because when you're out there today, they're, they're cutting behind the building. I mean, they're, they're doing all sorts of stuff back there because there's no road definition. Right. Right. So one of the big things about the project with working with engineering here was to create that road definition because there isn't any. Yes, Mr.

Chair. There's one thing I'm not getting.

Yes, sir.

You told me a little while ago that the entrance and exit cuts coming out of the lot onto Northern Drive were going to be closed off.

No, 125th Street is closed. So the entrance points off of 125th. Oh, 125th. Yes, yes, yes. Got it. 125th is closed. There's two curb cuts, as we talked about. Those are both removed. If you were to go out onto Northern Drive today, I challenge you to tell me where the curb cut is because it's pavement from one end to the other. We're going to create those definitions and those entry points because there isn't any today. So you're welcome. Okay, so now I lost my train of thought.

You were going to say how it brings you to the first variance you're asking for.

Yes, so we have a number of variances. We have the use variance, which is what we're kind of talking a little bit about right now. And then we have a series of area variances that are associated with property, and there are some items as it relates to drive-through. Al, did I miss anything as it relates to the pickup window, the operation, or anything along those lines? And I'll give you the microphone, and be sure to speak loudly.

And your name.

And your name's . Hello, everyone.

Hello, everyone. My name's Al. First of all, I think Roger covered everything that we needed to cover. But the pickup window is something that was approved a few years ago. And it's just going to be a pickup window only for people that order online, pay on the app, and they just get a notification. Once their order is ready to pick up, then they will basically just pull up to the window and pick up their order. they're not going to be able to pay at the window. They're not going to be able to order at the window. So there shouldn't be... any vehicles jammed up or people waiting in line.

So when you use the term, pardon me, pickup window, I've got a McDonald's pickup window sitting in my head. That's not what you're referencing.

Absolutely not. So there's a lot of people. I mean, the reason why we decided to do the pickup window is mainly for one reason. We've noticed that there's a huge inconvenience for a lot of people that they don't like to get out of their cars, right? They might have their children in the vehicle and they don't want to get out the car. So instead of getting out of your car, basically you go on the app, you order what you want on the app, you pay on the app, and then you get a notification that your order is ready to be picked up. You just go, you pick up the order once it's ready to be picked up. So if you get there before the order is ready, you're not going to be able to just wait in line. So it's something that we did for people's convenience. We were approved, the window was going to be on Neos Catacoke. However, while we were working on the project, we noticed that it was going to be between a gas line and the electricity pole. So we knew it was going to be dangerous. So what we wanted to do is literally just improve the whole project. And that's why we got Roger, a very known person when it comes to sites improvements. And he's very known, and he's good at what he does. We were able to do all the improvements. We also worked with city engineering to which were very, very helpful on helping us decide what's going to be better, not just for our business, but for the whole intersection. Because as you might all know, this is near one of the most important gates into the city of Troy. There's a lot of traffic in there. You know, this was just a tire shop that was causing just it was just a tire shop like the many tire shops on Fifth Avenue. We wanted to do something different. As you've driven by, you've seen the building, what it looks like from the outside. We wanted to do something extraordinary, something different. And I hope that we were able to do so. And we were unfortunate that the zoning laws were changed. So we had to come in front of you to help us open up the business.

Do you have the ability to, Al, if the app is, if you're, you know, if it's overflowing, right? Yes. You got 100 orders. Everyone's checking that day. Can you have the ability to turn the app off to say we can't take orders right now? I mean, of course.

I mean, as a business owner, you always want to be as convenient as possible for your customers. Because the window is actually going to help us reduce the amount of vehicles and jam we're going to have. Because you don't want a lot of people waiting in the parking lot. You don't want people hunking at each other. Accidents happen on that road all the time. Customer's convenience, traffic flow is gonna make our business do better. So of course, as a business owner, if you realize that there is anything that's causing issues, you have to solve it immediately because it will cause a negative impact on your business. So yes.

Before we proceed, Mr. Morrissey, should we do a secret now or later?

Well, I have some environmental questions before we proceed with that. I have some environmental questions.

OK. No. Just curious.

We're not going to do that.

No, usually it's a secret. But still, are we done with the discussion here?

I think it's done.

Are we done with the discussion here?

No, we have more questions.

Yeah, so why secret?

Just a few. I generally am the board member who does the environmental motions, the secret motions, and I have some background in underground storage tanks, oil spills. I'd like to find out a little bit about what was done with the old tanks, the soil that was around the old tanks and what is going on with the new tanks and what your obligations are with regards to new tanks vis-a-vis DEC.

Of course. This is one of the things that caused this project to take so long to get done is because when we started working on this project, it was right after COVID, and there was a shortage in tanks. And one of the things that we wanted to make sure is to take the old tanks out, which were in there since maybe 1950, and they were metal tanks. So we had to wait. We overpaid for the tanks because there was a huge shortage across the U.S. when it came to gas tanks. So what we did, we went through DEC, we pulled out all the old tanks, we inspected the soil, we were approved by DEC, and we installed new fiberglass tanks, which are the best of the best. They're fiberglass dry tanks. So everything was 100% replaced and they should last for the next 30 years.

What about your obligations for some tanks require tightness testing, like regular?

We did all of that, and we were approved by DEC. We will consistently be inspected by them. That's one of the reasons why this project took so long, is that we didn't want to just keep the oil tanks and start the business. We wanted to actually pull the oil tanks out, inspect everything. put new lines, new pipelines, change the tanks, the soil, and do everything. We were planning to stay in there for a long time, so we didn't want to cause any problems. issues for ourselves in the long term, basically.

But long term, you will have obligations to continually check and have it inspected, correct?

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. This is something that DEC and the state, at a state level, at a federal level, we have to keep aware of and we have to always keep up with it. So it's not just up to us.

Is there a case or file number with regards to the DEC project or?

Yes, yes, there is. I'm not, I can provide all that to you, but yes, we did pull permits and we, you know, from the state, we were inspected by the state. Right. Yes. So yes, we passed the inspection and all that. Yes. We're actually ready to fuel vehicles at this point. We're just waiting for the approval, but yeah.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Anything else? Are your tanks filled? Not with gas, with water. So with water, yes, but not with gas.

Does DEC give the go-ahead when you will be filling it up with?

Yes, correct. Yes. This is something that's handled at a state level.

And as a request and for future reference, if you could provide the DEC file number. Oh, yeah.

We have a certificate number. So every location gets a certificate. So we're obligated to.

Just for our records.

Absolutely. No problem. You got it.

Thank you.

Thank you. Might even be available on the DEC website.

Yeah. Correct.

No, no. I'm not saying he shouldn't provide it. I'm just saying it might be available.

Oh, yeah. But sometimes their websites are not that user friendly. Yeah. Correct.

Do you want to open up public comment before you do that?

Do you have anything else to say?

I hopefully you guys read the letter that we wrote to your board. Again, it's very unfortunate. Not the other one. That's a that's a letter from the franchise to prove that the window should not be getting jammed up. It's not like a Chick-fil-A window or anything like that. It's just a convenience thing. I know it's something new. A lot of people are afraid of what is it going to cost, but it's nothing like a Chick-fil-A or anything like that. It's just something that I said. It's just for people's convenience. And our parking lot is small, so we didn't want people to just consistently stay in the parking lot and cause a lot of traffic. We were approved before we did any work on the building, but working on the site, because it was so complicated, we realized that there was a lot of things that should have not that it would be better for us to enhance. And that's why we worked with the best architects, the best engineers to enhance this project, because we wanted convenience for not only our customers, but for the traffic in this intersection.

I just have a follow up of that, of what you just said. Since it's kind of a new approach, how will you get around early confusion, potentially a learning curve?

Well, you get, yeah, I mean, most of the customers nowadays, they want convenience, right? Like look at Walmart, look at all these supermarkets. They have these designated parking lots where people just pull up to the parking lot and to that designated parking spot and get whatever they want and deliver it to their vehicle and drive off. So old school people, they will still be able to pull in, walk in, order, see what they want to order. But a lot of people, they're looking for convenience. They're looking to save time, don't want to get out of their car. They might be lazy. So they're going to find their way to use the app.

So it's an adaptation of something that's going on now, maybe tailored to your situation.

Correct. Correct. Yes.

I think it's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

I mean, we've been in Lansenburg for a long time, and we don't just build gas stations, right? We like to do things different. We want to be different than everyone else around us. We know Lansenburg. We know the area. We know what people want. You've got to provide them with something different. You don't want to just be another gas station that puts fuel in there and sells cigarettes, right? That's why we're not even selling alcohol, because we realize that Lansenburg is a little bit tough. We don't want people hanging outside. So we took our alcohol, not because of anything, but because we didn't want the wrong crowd in there, you know? So we understand the neighborhood. We understand the community. If this was, respectfully, if this was like another, some town in New York State, then people would grab their beer and go home and relax. But in Lansing, people would probably be hanging outside. So just to be transparent, that's why we decided to, yes, it's going to cause us to lose a lot of profits, but We're willing to do that just to have a nice customer, I would say, a convenient, smooth transaction.

So there's no eat-in-tables chair? No, no, no.

Just pick it up and go home and eat at your home.

Okay.

Before you go to the public. I know Roger wants to address the other the area variances that you're seeking.

So I didn't know how you wanted to handle that if you wanted to do the use variance piece first, or if you just and then because, or I can go through the area variances, a lot of them are very quick so I can do that but how do you want me to address, address the board.

PB John Gerstle, I think you should go through them but it's up to you really.

PB John Gerstle, i'm happy to do so, we can go either way, whether we do the use variance or we do the area variance but maybe I should just point out, you have a five Member board. PB John Gerstle, One Member has recused himself. PB John Gerstle, So that means there are four votes. and you need three of the four to get the variance granted, a 2-2 vote is not approved.

Understood.

No, I just want to make sure that we all understand that.

Understood. And, you know, given the chairman's circumstances, we completely understand why he would need to step aside. I'm happy to go through the rest of the variances. I think there's a number of these that are very quick, and we can address them.

And then we'll vote on each one individually.

And then you would address them. however you feel fit when you're going through the list. So Angie, I'm going to probably just follow your bullet list first, just because your little cheat sheet is probably better than my long one, if that's okay. So the very first one on Angie's list is relief requested to allow the front setback for parking zones to be 0.5 feet along 125th Street 1.5 feet along New Skadacoke Road where 25 feet is required. So this variance is pretty straightforward in that the property boundary around this location is unique. So if you're standing out there, we can't see property lines, but we see the curb lines and things like that, right? So the property lines here are the dark lines. that are running around the project site. So on 125th Street, we have three parking spaces that are parallel along this edge. What we've done, when we were going through the planning board process, they asked that we extend sidewalks along the road frontage, provide additional green space along the road frontage, and then we can do our parking. But because there's so little space after you do all those other improvements between the property line and the building, our parking lot, that parking space is six inches off the property line. Now mind you, the setback for this district would be 25 feet. So if we took a 25 foot setback on all those property lines, Well, we can park in the middle, guys. That would be the only spot where you could put a parking space. And if you remember the old use that was there, which was the garage, there were cars parked all over the place on that thing, all along the side of the road. And to Al's point, we made some improvements to the site plan because if you go out there today, you'll notice that there's some parking spaces. Oh, the aerial doesn't show it. There's some parking spaces over here. There's some parking spaces over there. We've taken those all out. so people aren't backing out into the road from that. So we brought them all inward. So once we start doing that, that's where those area, those setbacks are. So simply put at this stage would be, the reason for that variance is variance would require 25 feet. We really would not have any place to put any parking on the property at all if we did a 25 foot variance.

Can you just show me the parking places?

Sure. And you know what? And I'll bring it to you if that helps. Just so that you can see a little bit. 100%. When I pull in, where am I? So there's three spaces here. So if you go to some of the stewards, you'll see this happening much now. There's parallel spaces along the edge. And then you have head-in parking.

And is this the entrance here?

That's the main door right there. Correct.

So you have three along there.

And then you have five along this front and chair.

Five in the front. Correct.

And the gas pumps are right here when we tried to put some cars to illustrate that to kind of give you a sense.

Yes, ma'am. Correct.

Okay. So one thing that with putting in the sidewalk, that's going to be very helpful. This has a comment to the board is I've dropped my daughter off at school and there's a lot of people that walk their kids to school and they've needed a sidewalk. Therefore, I don't know. I don't know. I've been in Troy for 12 years. My daughter was in sixth grade. So for at least six years, they've needed a sidewalk, but I've known them. Yeah.

Okay, next variance request is very similar to the last one. Fuel pump island. Fuel pump island in the front of the building needs to be 25 feet from a property line. This was a gas station before. We're having a fueling station here again. Once again, if you put all those setbacks on there, the cars would be in the same spots as the canopy. So we're seeking relief from the code for having the gas canopy within that 25-foot setback is what we're looking for. Angie, I should... CoB, Jay Sugnetta- know that I have a dimensional error on that, so if you can put for the record that 10 foot needs to read 4.2 feet, I do so, I will, I noticed that that dimension was pulled to a. CoB, Jay Sugnetta- To the one of the curb lines over there, which was not the property line. However, we're still within the 25-foot setback primarily because of the fact that.

So the 10-foot from the row line is really 4.2?

4.2 because this side where Northern Drive is, if you notice how far this thing sets back in and I can bring it in, that right-of-way line kicks way to the right along that edge. And so you can see there's pavement and everything along that edge that kind of overlaps out there even today.

If you go back to the 125th Street side.

Yes.

You're not that six inches that you're requesting. You're not right on the road. Sure. No. It's based there.

100%. So that's six inches I'm requesting just for point of clarity. I'm sorry. I'm trying to balance this at the same time. So here's the road edge. And maybe I could do this a little bit better here, guys. Sorry. This is the road edge here, right? My parking spaces are here. That black line's the property line.

So my six-inch relief is because that back of pavement is right on the property line, essentially.

But I have another four feet of grass to the sidewalk. That was a thing through the zone. So that's a zoning code item that we originally thought we were going to need another variance for. We worked closely with Eric and staff to make sure that we could get that green space strip in there. So we had a different configuration for parking. We changed that to add that green space in. So, but that's where that's coming from. Thanks, Zach. Okay, moving on. I know we got a lot. I got to pick up the pace. Sorry. All right, so the next two I'll lump together because they're both as it relates to lighting. The lighting for the project. This is an item of importance. We have neighbors that are in this area. One of them is here this evening. We, so the two variance requests for the record, we're seeking relief because the canopy illumination is located within the direct line of sight of a track control device. And we're also seeking relief requested for the maximum foot candle brightness of, okay, so foot candle per code needs to be 0.3 at the property line. We need relief of 1.2 foot candles at 125th Street, 2.4 along Fifth Avenue, 5.7 along Northern Drive, where that maximum 0.3 is allowed. So I know there's a lot to digest, but I'm going to slow it down for everybody. Okay. Out there today, Al has lights installed. We've advised Al to change those lights out. So currently on the building right now, there's floodlights. So if you were out there and you looked at the building, you'll notice that the lights are angled up. We're having him remove those off of the building. We're going to use a down style light. So it's basically shining straight down. And the illumination on those lights is extremely less. I think the wattage on this one, I turned this upside down. So yeah, these are really low watts for those wall packs at 5.8 or 6.8 on that wattage. So we've knocked those all down. along those edges and along this property line. So that's New Scatticoke Road. I got our things out of that whack, but that's New Scatticoke Road. We meet the code along that side. So by knocking those lights all down, we don't need any relief there. Where we're seeking relief is on the other side of the building as it relates to the intersection. So we get back to the property line situation once again. So We have the canopy in the front. The illumination is bright underneath gas canopies. Those gas canopies were changing the lights he has in there out as well. You can be 20 to 30 foot candles underneath the gas canopy. We're knocking that down to the minimum requirements of 10 foot candles that's underneath there. And that's an average underneath. By doing that, We have knocked that lighting level way down from what would be there. And when you extend it out to the road edge in these areas, we're very close to that 0.3 requirement. But when your canopy is... within that 25 foot zone and you have a 16 foot high canopy, that light is going to spread out from the bottom of it. I'm not gonna be able to cut that off within that many feet of it. But what we did do is by changing that light, we reduced it out. So we're simply asking for that relief. We've made revisions to the lighting that's out there or well, he'll install new lights based upon the new plan here.

So to put it in layman's terms that I might understand, Floodlight, as I think of a floodlight, is gone.

That is correct.

And what you're talking about is an illumination that comes pretty much straight down.

That is correct.

If I'm sitting in my car on Fifth Avenue facing north and Northern Drive is here, I'm here. I'm not talking about the traffic light at 5th. And I'm sorry, 125th. I said Northern Drive. I misspoke.

You're okay.

The next light in just before New Scatico Turnpike. Am I going to have visibility to see that light clearly with your definition of illumination?

Yes, we're going to have, again, when that hits out towards the road edge, I'm going to have to take my, I got to throw out my cheaters on here. So we're only at about 0.4, 0.5 foot candles at that curb line.

Would you explain to me what that means?

It's a lighting level. So like for parking lots and things along those lines, you want to be around that. We have 0.3 at the property line, but you can be, we'd like to see 0.1, you know, in a lot of those areas so that you have an even higher in areas where we need more lighting for security purposes.

So it's the lighting more subdued. It's not like parking.

It is more suited. It's not when you're standing underneath the gas canopy.

No, I understand.

Because I can't do that under that. So that comes back to things that the state would weigh in on, you know, if they didn't have enough light underneath the canopies. But what he has out there is very bright, and it can be less. So we're changing the lights out so that they can be less. Still code compliant, but just less.

Can you put the original or put the picture up there that has the houses nearby?

Sure. Oh, yeah. Back here. Sure. So here's the houses.

Who is going to be affected by this illumination? The people on New Skattakope.

So where I'm asking for the variance, I'm asking for the variance along this edge.

On New Skattakope, you're fine.

I'm not asking for any variance.

You said you were fine there.

But as it stands today. I didn't go out there with a light meter, but as it stands today, when I put those lights in the model, they're too bright. So we're taking those lights out.

But those aren't the issue. No.

Well, they would be the issue to the neighbor currently today, right? The neighbor could take concerns over this today, but not today, but not as part of our variance request. That is correct, sir. I'm sorry. Yep.

Okay.

Okay. Moving along. um permit so this is about the blank exterior walls without windows and doors and i get to stop talking for a quick second which is lovely lisa is here tonight um is this plan okay to use to talk about the variance request for what we need here so i'm going to turn it over to you but basically what we need here is um and you might be able to lump a few of these things together as it talks about blank exterior walls and transparency.

Right.

So Lisa, I'll turn it to you.

Hello, Lisa Rodriguez from tap. I think the the root of most of the problems besides that the site is way too small for a modern gas station is that the he received approval many years ago, and the rules have changed since then. So the More progressive ordinance is asking for more transparency and less blank walls. But he already had his permits and approvals and started building. So that's why you see what you see. And the layout inside does not lend itself to adding more glazing because there are things in the way. So here we have lots of glazing here. Here, we've got a drink station. So you could get more glass there, but you'd be looking at the back of a console that serves drinks. And then here is the back of the cashier station here. So that's why there's a blank wall here. This is the kitchen cooking equipment. And the back, every building has to have a back. And this site has four sides. So it's hard to really say what's the back, but I'll say that this and this are the back and that these are the front. But that's what it comes down to is he had gotten his approvals before the new ordinance is a very progressive ordinance. And it just doesn't meet it. And the current layout doesn't lend itself to adding more glazing in there.

Yes. Got a question. You moved your fingers so fast. I couldn't follow what wall you were at. Okay. If I'm parked in my car on Fifth Avenue facing north, Northern Drive comes down in front of me, 125th Street cuts in front of me. I'm sort of at that intersection. I look to my left out the driver's side window. There are two glass windows on that side of the building as we sit here tonight, correct? Yes. Do they stay or do they go? Nope.

We're keeping those.

These two windows.

Yes.

I can't see that diagram from here. Okay. Those are the windows I'm talking about, but I could not tell from 30 feet what's on that.

Yes, they stay. So they stay. Yeah.

So you do have windows. some ground floor transparency.

Yes.

I thought you wanted to eliminate all of it.

No, no, no. Just we can't meet the percentage. Got it.

Can I just add something really quick, if you don't mind? The only two sides that we don't have any transparency or windows is this side, which there is all the cooking equipment. So we couldn't put a window in there. And then this other side where we have the gas meter, electric meter, and we have a walk-in cooler in here right behind it. So we couldn't put a window. But besides that, we have windows, like we changed the entrance. We broke all this down and we put huge windows. We put windows here, windows here, these two windows. So we put windows as much as possible in there. The only way, the only place that we didn't put windows is where the walk-in cooler is and where the deli equipment is. And we have to ask for a variance because... The zoning law changed.

So you have added actually windows. Oh, yeah.

I mean, there was no windows. It was a mechanic shop. It was literally two big doors.

A police car could look inside from outside. There's a window.

I mean, you looking from this side or the front, looking at the building from all three sides and the front, you could always see into the building. The only place that you cannot look into the building is from the back, two sides.

And where is which, where's the drive up window?

Drive up window is this one right here.

Okay. Are you going to have like security cameras there?

I mean, we already have, we already have like 12 cameras on site.

Just make sure no shenanigans are going on.

Oh yes. I mean, the project has gotten ventilized a couple of times, but.

Can we move it along?

Sure.

Yep. So the last item on my list is that the ordinance calls for rooftop equipment to be set back from the edge and screened from view. This building didn't have a parapet. Often the parapet screens the equipment.

Yep.

There are other ways to do it. There are sort of decorative fencing systems that can be mounted on top of the equipment so that you don't have to penetrate the roof. There are decorative fencing systems that can be installed in the field of the roof. The downside of those is that you're popping a hole in your roof every six feet to hold this thing up. So not really desirable to punch holes in your roof. And there's one section in particular where there's a piece of equipment that's just too close to the edge to even get screening through. This grill exhaust here is... I don't know if you know what coping is. At the edge of a roof, when it pops up a little bit above the roof surface, that's the coping. It's covered with coping. This is right next to that and flashed into that. So in this area, we couldn't even get one here without moving that exhaust.

You have to relocate the whole thing.

Exactly. So we definitely can't do it here. It's just... an older style building that doesn't have it's a flat roof.

So could you do anything cool like they do in the city where they have like rooftop gardens? Could you put something alive up there?

Like to do that type of thing, you would put a 50 year roof so that you don't have to repair it for 50 years because it's completely covered with vegetation. And if there were a leak, you have to like, you know, figure it out and take that away.

If I could just add something, I mean, how would people, I mean, it's a small site, there's no way for people to access the roof, you know, and what are you going to look at the vehicles 125th jammed up, it's, it's not a nice view. If we were by the water, we would have done that, you know, but unfortunately, we're not.

Yeah.

Any other comments that you guys have to make in your presentation? There's a couple more. All right.

Yep. But these are functions of the property line and the entrance distances. So essentially, the code requires 50 feet from an intersection for your entrance locations. So back to what we talked about. We're closing all the ones on 125th Street. So we've taken that. that conflict out, still need to get access to the front of the building. And so once you center that drive up, we're going to be within we're going to be within 50 feet of the intersection because that would push the entrance basically into the building and vice versa. Same type of situation here because the existing driveway that's out there today is essentially at the intersection. We've improved it by the nose I talked about earlier and brought that away. So once again, we're seeking relief there of around 25 feet and 24 feet. I don't even know if I need this one anymore, Chris and Angie. This is about requesting some information regarding peak traffic, some data as it relates to the drive up and how many transactions. So we were able, so there was a request as it relates to having a drive through in the new code. One of the supporting informations is like how many transactions, what type of traffic is the drive through gonna receive? Um, we were able to get Nashville chicken to provide us. They have, I forget how many locations they have, but they have locations that have this service all over. Um, and they were able to give us a percentage breakdown, the number of sandwiches or transactions that they give in a day and the percentage that happens at the pickup window. It's anywhere from 26 pickups to 48 pickups in a whole day. So we're not talking about high volume at all. And when you think about it with the pickup window operation, you're 30 seconds to a minute in a pickup window because your order is ready. It's already paid for. You basically pull up to the window and grab your sandwich. But we'll leave it on the list. But we did get that supporting information because at the time we didn't have it. So we put that on the list. And then. The last goes back to the waiting lanes. This is tied to the same thing as it relates to the drive-through. The code would indicate that we would need six vehicles for a drive-through with 20 feet for each vehicle. So we would need 120 feet of vehicle stacking in property. My property is not that wide. We provide around... 60 feet and change for car stacking. So we're seeking relief on that piece of it because we can't get that many vehicle stacking. However, once again, not conventional drive-through. This code is written around that with multiple pickup window, or not multiple, order window and pickup window. So our application and our use is a little different. we don't feel we need to have six car stacking for a pickup window based upon our use. And that is all I have for all the descriptions. Thank you for your time.

You're welcome. Before we move on, it's been one hour. Does anybody need a five minute break or do you wish to just go through?

I have one question if you don't mind.

No, go right ahead.

What do you expect? How will fuel tankers enter and exit the property?

Yeah, that's a good question. So we talked with Al a little bit about this because he's going to need to stagger his fuel times a little bit given how tight things are for parking and such. So we did a large striped area that's in front of the building that's on the plan today. You'll see that blue hatching that's in front. So that we can have that space so when the truck pulls in to fuel those tanks, he's going to be parked there. So that'll be an operational thing for Al to work through. And Al, I'll speak to you as it relates, or I'll let you speak if there's anything specific to how you're going to have your fuel delivered.

Yeah, I mean, in our other locations, what we usually do is get an overnight delivery. So we do not take deliveries during the day. It only comes after 1 a.m., between 1 a.m. until like 5 a.m. those are the only two times that we get a delivery. Plus, changing the tanks, as she asked earlier, we won't be getting a delivery maybe like once every two weeks because we put big tanks under the ground. So that saves us a lot of time and issues.

So the way you pointed it out, specifically, do you expect the trucks to enter on Northern Drive and exit on New Scalico?

I think it's going to... They're going to come in off of... I think they're going to use Scatticoke and then come across that way.

You think they're going to enter from new Scatticoke?

Yeah.

I mean, we close at 12 a.m. He's going to come after we close. He's going to have the whole parking spot for him. They're usually good at what they do. He's going to figure it out, but there shouldn't be any...

I get that, but the turning radius is more than 180.

Yeah, it's going to be tight without question, but... without vehicles parked there.

If he has a parking lot could be clear and the road could be clear. So you have enough? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, I believe we have enough here. Yes.

Any other comments, questions from the board? Any questions from the public, either online or live in the audience?

Come on up, sir.

Come up, sir.

Microphone is all yours. My name is Martin Opoka. I live directly behind the project, 874th Avenue. I've been participating in some of the planning board meetings, and this seems to be a project that is in flux constantly. First planning board meeting I went to, they said they weren't going to be cooking any food there, but they got a... ventilation system and air exchange on the roof to handle a good-sized restaurant. He's talking about chicken sandwiches now, and I'm sure that there's going to be a lot more than chicken sandwiches there. He owns Five Star. Does a great business. I eat there occasionally. Good food. But that I got ahead of myself. That property was not a tire changing place. Hank Jenner served the community for over 50 years. He replaced engines. He overhauled engines. Towards the end of his career, he started to cut back changing engines and transmissions, but he was a full service. Both garage doors, they were transparent. They had glass panels on them, had great big windows in the front. So to say that there's more visibility now than there was before, that's not true. And Hank opened up at like 7 in the morning and closed at 5.30 at night, which didn't impact noise and traffic at night. I'm going to try to address the bullet points as they were. And when I went online, there was like three or four different versions of what was going to go on tonight. So I'm going to address the one that has the most the most bullet points. The variance for the pickup window, I don't believe it was on the original plans at all. So to say that the code changed and that's why they have to do it. The community, everybody that lives there has a driveway, but when you have company, people tend to park on the streets. I mean, along the side where Sunset used to be, what they're calling Northern Drive Extension and New Scottico, which my address is 874th Avenue, but they call it New Turnpike too, some people do. People park there. I got pictures of it recently, you know? So when we have all this traffic and all this stuff that's going in, three cars plus whoever's at the window, that's going to back out onto that Scottico, New Scottico. I'm guaranteeing it's going to back out. No matter what he does, the people order stuff, they're going to show up. They're going to be parking around the neighborhood until they get their car or something like that. And plus, school buses go down through there. When traffic gets backed up there, that's not going to be good. There's all sorts of blind spots here.

You come up 125th Street, You can't even see any cars there.

And you're going to have people coming down here and going in here to come in there. So they're going to be stopping here at the light. They're going to backtrack the car away.

When they stop at this light to make a left-hand turn to come in here, it's going to be a nightmare.

I mean, there's just, and to say they're only going to serve 20 to 40 people, I don't know. I've watched, I've parked a couple of times down at Five Star. That was a great business. I imagine that his objective here is to make lots of money. I'm going to estimate there's probably going to be 200, 300 cars through that operation, whether it be gas, convenience store, or picking up food at the window. That's going to impact that area greatly. People going in and out. trying to get into the flow of traffic. I don't know how people can't see that. I'll move on to the next bullet point, which for me, it's a relief request for the setbacks. I have no problem with the setback on 125th Street, but I don't understand what the 1.5 setback on Scottie Cook Road, the diagram that I got for the plan is there gonna be a dumpster or something back there. It's not gonna be any parking back there if I'm interpreting that correctly. And the fuel pump, the fuel pumps being this close to people walking by, I don't see that being safe. And I guess I'm getting ahead of another point. But when people come down, And they shielded these lights on the canopy and everything. I think it's going to be distracting for people. It's a very complicated intersection to begin with.

I don't know if additional lights would help down here or something like that, but people don't obey the law, do they?

I mean, people go all the way which way they want. They go right through the stop signs near my house.

I'm thinking that people are going to abide by some sort of curbing or something that's going to direct them to They're gonna go whatever way they want.

When you increase that amount of people coming in and out of that location, that busy location, it's gonna have to be a nightmare. I already talked about the canopy. I actually had an engineer friend of mine saying that that would be, and he worked for the state, New York State. He said that people coming down and seeing that there, that should be a flag for our safety has. They have all that lights on the canopy and everything and that close proximity to a busy intersection. I don't have no problem with the expanse of blank windows. But you would think that the transparency probably would be an issue with the police if they had a call there that there was a problem, that they can see in and see what's going on a little bit or doing security checks at night. I don't know if anybody's contacted Detroit police to see if they thought that that was okay. The rooftop mechanical issue, first of all, the large exhaust vent, the round one, isn't even installed properly. The carbon that it hooks to, it's not centered, it's not flush to it. The fencing around it is not just for aesthetics. It's to be a little bit of a sound barrier. All the houses behind this operation, the four houses that sit directly behind it, to the side of it maybe, are all elevated. So all that sound that's going to be coming off them is going to be right at our level of our house. We're going to hear it. I've also brought up the fact that You know, I'm also going to have to smell food constantly. I won't be able to have my windows open. Some things that should have been thought about before, you know, the initial plan was put in place. I see that they allotted for some space for snow removal, but, you know, we can get some pretty heavy snow. I don't know where they're going to put the rest of that snow. It's nice that they allotted for some of it. And the drive-up window, the people that are going to pull out of this thing, they're going to go directly into the flow of traffic. And you might put this little bumper here to make people slow down off of Northern Drive, but I can still see people flying right down Northern Drive, 35, 40 miles an hour down there, and people are going to be trying to pull out of that window.

You'll also have, they're pulling out of that window, and they're He got the flow going to the pumps, the flow going to the few parking spots they have.

I don't think he's got like maybe 10 parking spots down at Five Star. Nine, 10? That was a great business. I don't know what his projections are for this location. Very little parking. People are going to be parking around the neighborhood. That's gonna affect the people that I live with. I'm 70 years old. This is my family's residence. My grandmother owned the property before I was born. This is the old Sunset, where the Sunset was. People, that might even be my pickup truck in there, but people that visit other people over here, they park here, they park along here.

That's all gonna be impact.

I don't know if that's a reason for change, but when Testos is jammed, they park up this road. If people have a party in the houses that live on 4th Ave, they park up here. They block my driveway sometimes. I don't think there's sufficient room for a driver. I think it's going to add to a problem already that the whole location. They say they're going to change the light and I thought they did once already. But a visual inspection that even that is not up to code because the fixtures are not flushed to the boxes. And the bit with the ventilation system being not to the actual curb of where it's mounted to, I actually got a code 506.3.2.3, if you want to look that up. And also, it seems that this congested thing here is going to be not really good if there's an emergency, a fire or a medical emergency or something like that. It's pretty tight. I don't know. I don't think a tractor-trailer semi could make a delivery there. I worked at gas stations before. You can have them delivered in a straight tanker. that would eliminate that. But even at night, I mean, I don't think a tanker can pull in there. If he is, he's going to be back and back out into whatever's going on the street at that time at night. And the sidewalk, I mean, it's nice that they're putting a sidewalk in, but this is a sidewalk to nowhere. If you're going to have, if people are going to walk on the sidewalk, if you're walking across a busy intersection that has no crosswalks, has no nothing, it's aesthetically an improvement, but I don't think it's a functional improvement. All right. I know there's been lots of visits to the site and watching traffic and stuff like that. Maybe they should sit with some of the neighborhood and get their input. And I stand up here and I talk in front of the planning board. They never have no questions for me or know what's going on. I mean, you go back and forth with the project ownership and the project engineer and stuff. Nobody asks us how it's going to affect the people that live in the neighborhood.

I have a question for you. So what's your biggest concern? Is it the safe? Is it potential for car accidents? Is it just the parking? Because it's a convenience store, if I drove by a Stewart's and there was not a place to park, guess what? I'm not stopping at Stewart's. I'm going to keep going. So I don't – it seems like this shop is – it's an in and out place. It's not like people are going to be parking all over the place. Like they might test those or something like that. It would be very, it's inconvenient to have to park down the road to go to a convenience store. Um, I understand the smell, the chicken smell, food smell. I should say, I understand the noise of the, uh,

condensers or whatever's on the roof but what's what's the primary concern is it this because i that was one of the first things i was talking about was pulling out were you worrying about car accidents oh there there's already accidents there i don't know when i when i seen the traffic flow uh requirement i thought it was going to be some kind of study about what was going up and down the roads and stuff not not just what was going through the pickup window Because the traffic flow in that area, it has its peaks and its lows. But when it's at its peaks, it backs up already. People cut in front. People don't use the lanes that they're supposed to use. And they're right that people do cut down and cut over here to go up through Turnpike. And that may eliminate some of the stuff that goes on at the lights. They still have to stop at a light. Yeah, my concern is that you're going to take a very, at times, congested area and throw another two, 300 cars in there. I don't know.

Al, do you have a projection of how many customers you're going to do in there? It's not going to be one of your four. That's the question.

That's a great business at Five Star. If he does what he's doing at Five Star, that's going to probably be 300 cars.

So at Five Star, people are in and out, though, right? Or not? You know, what's the turnover of your driveway at Five Star? People are going to surprise.

Correct. People are in and out. So obviously this location, Five Star took it 15 years to be where it is today. It's been the business for 15 years. When we first came to Five Star, this is where we believe that businesses do affect communities. And when we first moved to Lansenburg 15 years ago, Cumberland's left, all these big companies left. Every single place closes at 8 p.m. It was a high-risk area. I mean, you would call pizza shops to deliver to Landsenburg. They wouldn't deliver past 7 p.m. This is a fact. If you call a pizza shop back 10 years ago to deliver into Landsenburg, they would not even deliver a pizza because it was a high-risk location for their drivers. We took a risk. We moved in. We gave up a lot of things. We did so much to be where we are today. And same thing with this location. I don't understand. I respect what he's saying. But first of all, regarding the smell, this vandalization for the hood, it does not even, no smell comes out of it, nor noise. It's just heat. And you could ask anyone that knows about, you know, hood systems and stuff like that. So there's going to be no smell, nor noise. nor a noise or anything like that. That's number one. Number two, I mean, do you not want a business in Landsenburg? Because it seems like Price Shopper walked out, Ted's Fish Fry walked out, Burger King walked out, Well Now walked out, Dunkin' walked out of that area. You got all these businesses that walked out of that area. We came in, we spent $2.4 million. We were, as I said in the letter, advised by officials and community members to invest in that location, because it was an eyesore for the city of Troy. So we took that big risk. Our location has gotten vandalized multiple times, and we're still taking that risk. So your area will become safer. There's no going to be hanging around because we're not selling alcoholic beverages or anything like that we're selling upscale business upscale convenience snacks and food. So, in and out, we know the neighborhood, I live in Lanceburg I know Lanceburg so there's no way any of those concerns are going to be. I don't see them happening. I know the area very well. I know the business. I understand your concerns, but they're not going to happen. There's going to be no noise, no sound, no smell, none of that. And as you said, I agree with you. People, if the traffic flow is bad, no one is going to pull over. So it's going to be my loss. How long is it going to take us to get $2.4 million back? So that's it. Thank you.

I do have a question. I didn't catch your name. I'm sorry. Mark, you said? Mark. Martin, can you kind of show on the map about where your house is in general? Right over there. Okay.

Thank you. I didn't really get to answer your question. Yeah, go ahead. My concern is, yes, the fumes from the vents. I drive for a living. I'm a delivery driver. I drive all over the place. I go by restaurants. Got the same similar type stuff on the road. I smell their food. Makes me hungry while I'm driving. Don't always smell them. You know, sometimes it goes up just because of whatever's in the atmosphere, how it is. They go up and they go away. It's not always the case. Depends on how the wind's blowing and what the pressure is.

I have a couple of questions. You had a lot of points. I wish I had a list of them in front of me. I tried to track it up here. I think I only covered one. No, you covered quite a few, sir. But here's my first question. You said when this was initially planned or purchased prior to the zoning board change in the law in the 2023 year. that the drive-up window was never part of the original operational design. True or not true?

Incorrect. You guys could pull up the videos and the records. No, I'm just asking a question.

Prior to 2.0.

Yes, there was a pickup window, 100%. And it was in a bad location. Yes, yes, yes, 100%. Thank you.

The other issue was the vent on the roof. You said it's not either mounted properly or operating properly.

I couldn't tell you whether it operates properly because I don't know if it's ever been on yet.

You suggested it wasn't.

Well, I suggested that it was installed improperly. Did you go up the roof? It's not flush to the curb. And if you look from the road, you can see it.

What does code enforcement say regarding the mounting of that vent on the top of that roof where it is and where it was prior to the proposed operational plan? It's new.

It wasn't on the building before. I mean, this is something new.

I mean, we wouldn't get a CO if it was improperly. We would not get a CO by code enforcement if it was improbably installed. I mean, and you can't even look at it unless you go up the roof. Unless he went up the roof, he put a ladder and he went up the roof.

The inference was it was not operating or functioning properly.

He doesn't know. We've never turned it on. So I don't know that. I don't know how he knows that.

I didn't exactly say that. I said that you could see visually that it's not flush to the curb and

But that's impossible because you have to go up the roof for you to see that.

I could see it from the road. I went around the building with a friend of mine that was an engineer. Okay. Just like the light fixtures are not, they're supposed to cover the boxes that they're hooked to. You can see the boxes behind them. I mean, you know, it's the same type of thing with the vent. I don't, they haven't been operational yet. So I don't know what I'm going to smell. But I know when I drive around and I see this type of unit on a building and I'm going by a nice Italian restaurant or a burger. I understand what you're saying. I used to smell Burger King from down two and a half, three blocks away.

Those are old devices, but the new modern hood systems, you shouldn't be smelling. They have better filtration.

One of the points you made was a point that I brought up and they brought the design over to me was about transparency.

the windows in the front, I just did that variance. The only thing I said about that is maybe the Detroit police should, you know, that transparency is probably for the cops to pull up.

But you have that on the side of the building with those two plate glass windows, maybe not the maximum that they want, but they're there. and then you have glass on the front door. Minor issues. I was just trying to address the problem. No, you said transparency was a real safety issue. It was what I thought I heard.

I said that you might want to ask Detroit police if that's an issue with them for safety reasons. If they answer a call, they probably want to be able to see into the building. I agree with that. And I made reference to the fact that he said that there was no transparency when Jenrin was there and it was two great big garage doors that had nothing but glass and two great big plate glass windows in front. My little brother put his hand through one of the plastic glass windows and got 60 stitches and Hank tried to sue my father for the windows off. I know there was windows there.

I want to interrupt for just a minute. So in all of this planning, Chris, you might know, have the police and has the fire department all been consulted and

Yeah, they're in our planning review meetings. This is Chris Marini, city engineer. Yeah, police and fire were present. They continue throughout the building permit process. I know an officer at one meeting inquired about the cameras. He said he was going to get in contact with Al about it. It's usually a requirement they have. And yeah, fires.

Did they suggest any issues with safety of the building or getting in and getting out if somebody has a heart attack and getting an ambulance in there, something catches on fire? They would have brought that up. Am I correct?

I've attended those meetings. I don't recall that being brought up.

There's been no suggestion from the police or the fire representatives that the plan or the site plan is unsafe.

And typically, if they thought it would be, it would have been addressed.

If they saw a defect in the plan that would inhibit their operations, they are usually quite outspoken.

Okay. So I think that should make you feel good.

but they should, they might be looking at it when they, they still had the large entrances off 125th street.

Well, I mean, I think they're part of this, but I mean, to me, I think, you know, one of the things that there's some of these smaller things, but I mean, the traffic flow seems to be the thing that concerns you the most.

Well, yeah, I go to bed at eight o'clock at night. I get up at five o'clock to go to work. Um, I don't want all the traffic going through there at 11, 12 o'clock at night. That's a concern. Basically, the amount of traffic that's going to be there throughout the day is going to cause problems with the traffic. Even when the kids get out of school at that particular time, it causes problems.

Here's my thought about that. I want you to feel good about it. I live in Troy. I don't live in Lansingburg. I'm not driving to Lansingburg, no offense, to come to your place. So I think the traffic that is going to be, I think the traffic that's going to be using his establishment is already there. So I don't think it's going to be more traffic. I just think it's that traffic that's going to use his establishment.

Well, I don't think a lot of people that travel through there are just going through there to get to Waterford to go to work or go up. So they're not going to be stopping there for that reason. But I'm just saying, when you add to that, the people trying to get in and out of it, a restricted area now because you got less entrances, which may or may not be good. But can you just imagine somebody pulling away from that window and then they have to go out and you got all the flow coming down?

So that was my point. It was my very first point. Taking a left. I think the left-hand turn is a bad idea. So maybe that's something that you can address, Al.

People are frequently pointing to the main entrance on Northern Drive. And when they're coming out of the drive-through, that's another 15 feet or 20 feet to the south. Yes. So it's more in the middle of that block.

They're going to put some grass or some kind of sidewalk in here that's not there now. It's hard to visualize, but that may change some. But the windows right there in the corner, people are still going to pull right out into the floor. whatever's coming through here, whether they go left or right.

Hopefully they'll look first.

And if it's all directed right back down towards my house, it just increases the traffic in front of my house.

So as a parent that had a daughter that was at Turnpike, the school does encourage the parents to not go through this intersection? They encourage them to go around down second by the old price chopper and come up around to come that way.

That would make more sense.

So just as a parent, that is what I did. Now, there was times that I went this way. And there was times I did what they are complaining about now, cutting through that to cut the light many times. And that's officially on the record. So I can probably get a ticket for it now. All right. But the school, when new parents come and they say they're going to be drop off or pick up, they encourage the parents through a letter to come around second half, to come down. So then you're taking a right into the school, a turnpike. They try to alleviate people going through there to save this for buses too. So that's just... Just knowing this is very recent in my history.

That's great communication. And again, that's my biggest concern. Coming out of this gas station part, the convenience store part, who's taking a right, and somebody coming out of the drive-thru who's taking a left.

I was also the PTA president, so we did a lot of events.

This is a blind spot here. They've got bushes and a shell hill. You can't pull out here. The traffic coming up there. You know, you can't, you can't see. And I know if you wait for the light, that's one thing. Hopefully the people coming up 125th Street stop. But you're also, my issue is that if people have to come down here to turn to come in here, that's going to back that traffic right up. I mean, you know, and you know, people, you're one of the parents that actually go the other way. But that turnpike is still backed up for that period of time that the kids are let out of school or dropped off. It's not so bad dropping off the people, dropping them off at different times, but they all get out at the same time.

I'm begging to ask a question. The term five-star store or gas station has been used repeatedly. I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea where it is. I have no idea what it does, and I've never seen it. So could somebody please take 30 seconds and explain to me what everybody's talking about when they use The Five Star. Let him in. You don't own it. I know what it is, though.

You said somebody.

I'm somebody, aren't I, Steve?

The Five Star is a gas station convenience store on Fifth Avenue. Not anywhere close to this. What's the... 109th.

Thank you. I had no idea what it was.

They have a pickup window inside, not one you drive up to, but you can walk in, order food.

I got that.

You can call it in.

Is it just going to be chicken sandwiches, or are you going to have the full menu that Five Star has at this location?

It's a smaller menu. It's a different menu. Much, much smaller.

Just chicken?

Yes.

Just chicken? Yes. No rice dishes? No, no, no, none of that. What's the need for all the ventilation?

What was that?

What's the need for all the air exchange and hood ventilation?

That's something that the Department of Health requests. because there's friars. Yes, because we don't want to have any smoke inside the place.

Sir, I just want you to know, Marty, that you've been hurt. And

PB John Gerstle, Because in the planning board meeting I was I asked what was my if this gained approval, the way it sits now, and there is a problem with traffic and noise and all this other stuff that I have to go through code and.

engineering and it sounds like a process that's going to be never ending if it if it is and i think now is the time to address yeah we already have an intersection that is a problem and this is why i just want to add something to him to make him feel like that he's heard and this is why we're here today three years later it's because we realized that the previous plans were not the best so that's why three years later we're coming again we are where we are today to improve everything that was already approved. So most of your concerns, I promise you, you're not going to be worried about it. It will be OK. That's why we got the best site planner, best engineer, the best architect in the area. They're very known. Here we are.

I don't think it can control people's travel patterns. I don't think it can control people's bad habits and travel breaking the law, you know, traffic violations and such, you know, and you're People are going to be parking around there waiting for him to call and say, your order's ready.

I had one question. You mentioned a code reference that I think may not have been in the application materials. What was that number again?

I made reference to the possibility that the exhaust vents were installed improperly to the carbon.

I guess the engineering term would be.

What was the reference number?

506.3.2.3. 506.3.2.3. That sounds like a New York State building code. Well, that's very minor to my concerns. traffic and being that late at night. It's commercial residential, so I'm concentrating on the residential.

Is it at least something better than the eyesore that was there?

Oh, I'd like the garage that was there when it was operational, you know? An empty building. No, I mean, you know, George and Hank didn't paint the building anymore. This is, you know, I know the guy put a lot of money into that. And I appreciate, I thought it was utter business. I buy food there, but that's not in my backyard. Not, you know, it's not in my backyard. The traffic is going to be in front of my house when I'm trying to go to sleep and try, you know, And I want to open the window on a nice summer night and get some ventilation through my house. That's going to be an issue.

You know, Al, you could put that on your app. You know, please no parking in the neighborhood. I mean, I'm serious. Please no parking in the neighborhood while you're waiting for your order.

I mean, on the record, I promise him if there's people parking in front of his house, I'll have an employee just work in front of his house. Make sure that no one parks in front of his house. Put that on the record. I'm responsible for that. If he gets people parking in front of his house, I'll hire a full-time employee that just stands in front of his house, making sure that no one parks in front of his house. And that's on the record.

Okay. Well, I guess my comments about the traffic and the possible potential for problems on the record also.

Okay. I think we've heard a lot from everybody. Is anybody online? Yes. With comments? And if so, now is your turn. Introduce yourself and go ahead. Tracy?

Yes. Hi. Thank you. Yes, Tracy Lee, 886 4th Avenue. And I sent you a list of all my concerns, including some that Al certainly did address. Unfortunately, I wasn't at the previous appeals or the zoning meetings or anything. I wasn't aware that there was going to be a drive-thru. I just assumed it was going to be a gas station in a store. I was not aware that it was going to turn into a restaurant. with a drive-through. I'm directly across the street. I'm not sure how this is going to impact me. I have no, any kind of planning. I haven't seen anything in reference to this. And again, I've written all my concerns to you all and I presented it before the meeting. I'm not sure if you're going to go through it or if you're going to take it into consideration or do I have to read it?

No. We got the email, if that's the one you're referring to. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. So I do have a number of concerns, including a lot that was already mentioned. And I would also like access to these plans to see how it would affect my residential area. And I would like that same courtesy if he's going to hire someone to make sure no one's parking, because I already have people parking, my neighbors, parking on the side of the road there. And I The garbage, I can't imagine that it's going to be more. I imagine that it's going to be more garbage and things to take care of. So I'm very concerned.

I would like to ask a question about the garbage. Al, explain your plans for garbage, sanitation, pickups, waste removal. Mr. Sainz.

Yes, sir. Roger Keating from Lobel Associates. We have a dumpster garbage enclosure right here.

I can't see any of that.

I'm sorry. I'll explain it, ma'am. I'm getting tired and fatigued here. Sorry, guys. New Turnbike Road side of the project, we have the dumpster enclosure over there. Al will be getting his garbage collection three times a week. So it's not sitting there, you know, with like a once a week pickup.

Is the garbage collection private or is it city of Troy?

Private.

How many times a week?

Three times a week.

Thank you. And not at 3 a.m. in the morning. I would suggest don't make it 3 a.m. in the morning.

So those are planning concerns generally and can be, I mean, he does not have site plan approval yet. If anyone has an objection like that, they can raise it before the planning board at the public hearing. And the if the planning board looks favorably upon the objection, it could be a condition of site plan approval.

Okay, is that likewise with snow removal?

snow removal is also a planning consideration and not a zoning consideration.

Okay. And so I take that up with zoning.

So there will be a planning board meeting. I'm not sure when.

On June 17th at 6 o'clock p.m. Right here, you can also go to the city website, follow the link to join the meeting on Zoom and you can also provide your comments. Or you can come in person. Yeah, you can also come in person here.

Okay, and so the other points that I raised in my letter, my email to you all, were they addressed or are they the same, pretty much the same things that we already went over?

To the best of my knowledge, and I would say to the best of my knowledge, your email concerns were pretty much addressed or discussed tonight in the public access. I can't say emphatically yes, but I think most of them were covered. Okay.

And where can I find that?

Where can you find what?

Where can I find the concerns I addressed? You said it were covered where? I don't know where.

I think, Ms. Lee, the chairman is saying that you raised a number of concerns in your email, which I have not seen, I'm sorry to say, but that those concerns, to the best of his recollection at this time, were the subject of discussions that have already taken place or that took place this evening before the zoning board.

Okay, so like the value of the home, the degrees of the volumes of our home with this business, how is that? Is our home value going up?

Of course up.

Okay. Okay. And your green space is just that little strip? Is that what you referenced when you said improvements will be made to increase the green space? It's just that little strip of grass.

Right now there's no green space.

Zero green space there today. We revised the plan. So at one point in time, we did need a variance for green space. We've revised the plan as I described earlier to further increase the green space so that we did not need a variance. We meet the code requirement and we're doing additional green space improvements not only on our site, but off our property. So along the right-of-way, when we're creating that road definition, that's all asphalt there today. We can't take credit for that as part of a zoning piece because it's not on our property, but we're most certainly increasing green space out there compared to where it is today significantly.

OK, and in reference to the approval from 2022 with this window, is there any way that can I go back to the meetings and see when this window was included? Because I always was under the assumption that it was just going to be a gas station and maybe a little convenience store. So when did the window with the drive through and all that take place?

Al, did you say that the drive-through window was involved pre-zoning change in 2023?

I don't know about the exact code, but I know one thing. I know one thing, that everything has been approved, and it was actually approved as a drive-through window, not a pickup window. But we realized the complexity of the location of the site, so we decided to... make it only a pickup window. So we're not...

It's not a drive-through window in the sense that we would think of a drive-through window where you stop, get your order, move 30 feet, wait five minutes, pick up your package and pay for it.

Correct. But it was originally approved as a drive-through window and food and all of that.

Yeah.

Right now it's not. Again, we're improving things without being pushed to do so, we want a smooth business in the area.

I understand. And I do hope that you are successful. But in an event that things don't go as planned, what is the recourse? What happens next? Who's going to be responsible? Who's going to follow up?

I mean, we're responsible for the business. Obviously, we don't want a business that's going to cause people issues because that's going to affect us. I mean, who's going to pay the property tax? Who's going to pay the bills? We're invested $2.4 million in here.

Yes. So things are going away with the traffic or the foot traffic and the noise. You're going to be addressing these issues. You're going to be working with your neighbors.

Of course. Okay. Yes.

Okay. Yes. Thank you.

Any other public comments? So, Tracy, I think I made a mistake. The meeting for the planning board for June, it's June 16th. It's on Tuesday, not 17th. It's June 16th. Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. Marty, did you have something you wanted to add?

After something's already established, I mean, I don't want this guy to lose his investment. I don't want you not to give him some approval, but I want you to give consideration to the traffic flow and what's going on there and what's going to go on with the neighborhood. Now, just to kind of go over a past thing that has happened in the city, that apartment complex at the old Lion Factory is a nightmare, you know, and nobody can do nothing about it because it's too big and too much money that's invested into it. That shouldn't be an issue with this, you know? That's not an issue. That's not an issue? I see fire department, ambulance is there, somebody got killed there. I mean, you know, come on.

Can I talk? Not yet.

I'm just, you know, I'm just, in some ways, I like Al's other business. But, you know, it's going to, that's a bad intersection. And I live there. It's going to be noisy. That's my only concern. I don't have a problem with the operation there. I'd like it to maybe not be open until 11, 12 o'clock at night. And I'd like to be able to think about still being some parking spaces out there, not all the greenery.

So hours of operation is a planning board issue also as part of site plan review. So at the next planning board, you should maybe, I think you've already something, but I mean, if you want to make some definite proposal and ask them to condition any approval on certain hours, you can do that.

The lady that was online, somebody should just tell her she can go on to the website and get, I got some different plans and stuff from the website. That's right.

Yeah, I can send you some plans. Tracy, I have you.

Bill, I will send you the plans. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. All right.

Is there anything else? Yeah, people online. Okay, continue. Who's next?

Can I talk?

Yeah.

Hello, everyone. My name is Javier. I'm a master's degree graduate from urban and regional planning from SUNY Albany in 2018, class of 2018. I'm also a resident across the street from this business, potentially. I have seen this business, 892 Fifth Avenue. And I have seen this business been trying to be accomplished, I guess, for many, many years. And I'm not sure what's the issues and what's going on. But I have one consideration about the owner said he will install security cameras. Or a matter of fact, he has installed already security. security cameras. Now, is the police will have access to those cameras at any time?

Yes, 100% like we have with all the other businesses. They do have full access to cameras. Okay.

And do you have any date of accomplishing or opening such a business?

Yeah, I mean, that's why we're here in front of the board hoping that we get approved and open up as soon as possible.

and again as a resident there I appreciate what you invest in the city of Troy this is and it used to be an eyesore for us as a neighbor I got my Cadillac converter from my car stolen because of the darkness and the existed business in that area attracted the wrong crowd People who would do drugs would be around in the area. And because I guess of the project, the resident project there, there was some shootings and many times. So such a business, as far as I studied and know, is more businesses in any city will decrease the amount of crimes in any city, in any given city. And the increase of lights as well. So I encourage the board to look at the plans for the lighting, just to make sure we have enough lights in the business, just to be safe for the people, whether they drive or whether they walk, especially for the people who walk. Like I commute a lot of times and most of the time I would rather to walk than use my car. So I can't most of the time or certain hours due to the fact whether it's the sidewalks or not. fixed and I can't use my bike or I'm afraid to trip or the light I'm afraid of me getting jumped getting hurt by someone so again I just want to make sure I understand some of the neighbors have concerns about the lights that go into their houses or they cannot sleep but what about the people who are trying to walk or commute walk my dog i want to make sure i have enough light i mean this business have streets all around it and plus your house is still x amount of feet from that street and you got a window you got a curtain it's not going to be harmful to you as much to me if i'm walking my dog and getting jumped Those, again, I don't want to have less lights where it's dark and I can't see who's walking behind me. Another thing is this business, I don't know how long it's going to take to open, but we need more of varieties of food options or places to go to. I'm tired of me going all the way to Hoosick to eat, or I have to go to Albany or Latham, matter of fact, most of the time. I want something close to my house where I could just walk up to that place, order, get my food, leave, or order ahead and go pick it up and come back home. As a working class, I work from 8 to 5 to 6 sometimes. By the time I get home, it's like late, 7, 8. I don't want to go to Latham or stop in the way after taking a shower or after going to the gym. I feel lazy. I just want more options in my community. And that's pretty much what I have written. I may forget a couple of points, but

That's all for now. Thank you. Thank you.

Who's next? Anyone online who wants to talk? Last call.

Is there anyone else online who has something that they would like to?

Kira, do you want to talk?

Hi, yes. Kira, 886-4th Ave, directly behind So this establishment, I just want to say there should be no drive-through because of the increased traffic. And also people are now doing Uber Eats, so I'm not sure why you can't send somebody to bring the food to them. Is that a possibility, sir?

Because that's 30% increase on every single item. When you order an Uber, I mean, you're in Lansenburg. Do you want to pay something? If it costs you $10, do you want to pay $25, $30 for it? I mean, people want to pay it.

I have no problem getting the food that I need. So I feel like there shouldn't be a problem. I don't want to pay that much. Javier, can you mute yourself? Nobody interrupted you.

Sorry.

Okay, let's get some order here, please. If somebody chooses to use Uber, that's their option. Any other concerns for the use or zoning variances that have been proposed for tonight? Correct. If anybody has anything, please continue.

I do have a comment.

Excuse me.

Javier, you don't have the floor.

Again, the increased traffic. The gentleman on the panel had mentioned that the parents were instructed to go around. So there's already a traffic issue already. So there's going to be increased traffic, increased accidents. We're not going to be able to walk down the street freely because of the cars, because of the noise, the pollution. The parking and what used to be a quiet eyesore to you guys was a nice quiet residential area for us. It was quiet, so we don't want the noise. Again, the gentleman before said the smells. We don't want the parking, the traffic, the unsafety, all that garbage. that your consumers are gonna be throwing everywhere. The crowds, the hangout spots for 12 a.m.

Okay, anybody else please? So you have Sheldon or Eve.

Sheldon, did you want to talk?

Nope, that's it. We just don't need the drive-through.

What about E?

That's Eric. Oh, that's Eric. Eric, did you want to talk? No. He said he wanted to talk. Tony?

Anything else going once? Can I talk? I asked to talk.

Who are you?

I'm Javier, again. I just want to mention a comment on Tara. I'm a resident as well. So when you're saying you don't want... I think it's smart of the owner to put a window. That would decrease the time of people waiting in the parking lot. Just as I am, if I'm not walking to the place, I will just use my car. I don't want to wait for my order. I would have my order, you know, I have to put my order online or whatever, how they're using it, or through the app, as he mentioned, I guess, before. And I would just get my order and leave. And plus, I don't want to use Uber, as other residents said, and pay $10 or $15 for delivery fee, plus commission, plus tip, plus whatever, whatever.

Javier, using an Uber is entirely an option on your part. Absolutely, I understand. Is it correct?

Yeah, but some of the residents was mentioning, oh, use Uber. Again, as you said, it's an option. I can't afford it. Maybe she can. I can't. No, I understand that. But this is... You know what I mean? And then for the light and for the noise, actually, this is... Now I feel safer to walk up, down the street because I have more light. I think we understand that.

We've covered that.

He's already made up. I never knew food was a pollution. Making food in any place or the smell of the food is a pollution.

It's really not about responding to the other speakers. You've already spoken directly to the variances that were requested.

Thank you.

All right. There's nobody else. And everybody's had an opportunity. I'd like to move this along.

Seeker.

Could we do a seeker determination, please?

Yes, Mr. Chairperson. Thank you. In regard to PLZBA 2026-0032, as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. Okay, the motion has been made.

Second. We're going to do a roll call vote. PB, yes or no?

Yes.

Zach, yes or no?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. So four out of four, yes. Paul is abstained or recused himself. Okay, moving forward, we're going to take this one at a time or collectively?

I believe you should do it one at a time.

I'm thinking we should too. So let's deal with the use variance first. Mr.

Chair, can I say something real quick? Absolutely. Okay. I wanted to ask Al, so it appears so many people have concerns over traffic safety for the drive-thru. So let's assume that you are granted a variance today. What happens if... this is open and you realize that there's actually traffic that you did not anticipate happening, what are you going to do for the drive-thru especially?

I mean, as I said before, as a business owner, as she said, you want convenience for the people. So as she said earlier, convenience. If there's a lot of cars or traffic, no one would want to stop by. So obviously we would close it for that hour from the app. So we have a control where people won't be able to even order through the app. we're going to be able to decide what we need to do to make this easy and quick for everyone. And that's one of the benefits of people ordering through the app is unlike the previous plan where it was a drive-through window, people pulling up, ordering, and we were approved for that, right? But no, we said, no, this is going to be a mess. Let's just do it through the app. In case we want to control the traffic, we can just control it from the app. So that's obviously, as a business owner, my concern. I would definitely resolve it immediately and take actions.

Okay.

Thank you.

Go to the use variance first, please. Okay, we need a use variance for the drive-through pickup window. And when we talk about a use variance, there are four tests. You have to demonstrate that the property is able to provide a reasonable rate of return unless the variance is approved. The hardship associated with the property is not unique when compared to other similar properties, that it would not alter the character of the neighborhood because the neighborhood is zoned commercial and residential. or the variance is not self-created because the plans were put in place some time ago. So discussion? Well, you've got to meet all four.

I don't have anything.

I have nothing. Could we have a motion to either approve the use variance or to deny the use variance?

I'll make a motion to approve. Do you have a number for that variance?

PB, Lupita D Montoya, No.

PB, Lupita D Montoya, No. PB, Lupita D Montoya, To. PB, Lupita D Montoya, The use variance to allow for a pickup window. PB, Lupita D Montoya, I moved that the board approve this variance. PB, Lupita D Montoya, This on the phone X. PB, Lupita D Montoya, This is a unique idea. And I think the property. He's trying to provide a reasonable rate of return. And I think this will do well for him. The hardship relating to this is unique when compared to similar properties. It does not apply to a substantial portion of the neighborhood. Some might argue that, but I think it will be good for the neighborhood. The variance, if granted, will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood. As you stated, it is a commercial mixed-use property. The hardship is not self-created because it was created a long time ago.

Any comments? Can we get a second to the motion?

I second.

Okay, the motion to grant the use variance has been made. Approved. Seconded. Evie? Approved. Zach?

Approved.

I approve.

I approve.

Four out of four approve the use variance. Moving along. We're going to go to the area variance. Applicant does not need to prove all five tests. The first one is relief requested to allow the front setback for parking zones to be 0.5 feet along 125th Street. and 1.5 feet along New Skaticoke Road where 25 feet is required. Is that correct?

Yes.

Anybody want to please?

Sure, sure. I move that the board approve this area variance. related to PLZDA-2026-0032 of the front septic parking. The variance, let's see, the variance will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood. In fact, I think it will be good for the neighborhood because it added in the sidewalk and some green space. The benefits sought by the applicant cannot be achieved by some other feasible method because there's just not enough property there. The requested variance is not substantial. Well.

You don't have to meet every test.

I got two.

I second.

Okay. The motion has been made and seconded to grant the area variance of relief regarding the front setback and the new Skaticoke Road setback as read.

I vote to approve. Approve.

I would approve. Approve. Four out of four approves. Variance granted. Moving along. Bullet point number three. Relief of 15 feet requested to allow fuel pumps to be located four point two feet from the row line where a minimum of 25 feet is required.

Mr. Chairman, can I just interrupt for a quick second? I want to thank you for acknowledging that typographical item of 4.2. The relief of 15 feet needs to be revised to 20.8 to do the math, correct?

So 20- So let me re-read that. You're looking for a relief of 20.8 feet? Correct. Instead of the 15 feet.

Yeah.

To allow the fuel pumps to be located 4.2 feet from the row line where a minimum setback of 25 is required.

Correct. It's on the plan correctly. It's just that the label.

I just want to make sure we read it right.

Correct.

Okay. Any discussion? Can we get a motion for that area of variance, please?

Sure. I can't wait to see you guys in person.

Pardon me? Excuse me?

Shut that down.

I just need all that. PROCEED WITH THE VOTE.

I MOVE THAT THE BOARD APPROVE REGARDING PLZBA2026-0332, THE VARIANCE TO ALLOW THE FUEL PUMP TO BE LOCATED. RELIEF OF 20.8. 20.8.

They're gonna be 4.2 feet from the right of way with relief of 20.8 feet.

So the alleged difficulty is not self-created. If they moved the fuel pumps any place else, they'd be in the middle of the store. The variance granted will not have an adverse effect on the physical environmental conditions in the neighborhood.

I second that motion.

Okay, the motion has been made and seconded. Evie, vote please. Vote to approve. Zach?

Approve.

I approve. Tamara? Approve. Motion passed. Approved. Would you like the permit canopy illumination voted on independent of what you put together as joint?

No, everything per record.

You got it. The next area of variance is to provide relief as requested to permit canopy illumination located within the direct line of sight of a traffic control device. We need a motion either pro or con.

I'll move that the board approve the variance regarding the canopy illumination. The variance may not be achieved by some other feasible method other than the proposed variance. And I don't believe it'll have an adverse effect or impact on the environmental conditions of the neighborhood.

Are there any other comments? Can we get a motion to approve? Do we have a second?

Second.

Those in favor, Evie?

Vote to approve. Approve.

Zach? I approve. Tamara?

Approve.

Four out of four, approved. Moving along on the area variance, relief is requested to allow maximum foot candle brightness of 1.2 foot candles. along 125th Street, 2.4 foot candles along Fifth Avenue, 5.7 foot candles along Northern Drive, where a maximum of 0.3 foot candles is permitted.

I'll do this motion tomorrow. I believe that this variance will not create an unreasonable change. I move that the board approve this variance. I move that the variance will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a detriment to nearby properties. If it is granted, I think it strikes a balance of lighting the establishment in a modest way and providing security as well. And there's enough other businesses in the area that do other lighting. So I think it's pretty consistent. The benefits sought by the applicant may not be achieved by some feasible method other than the proposed variance. I believe the efforts put in through the planning board and various of their iterations of their plans, I think they have tried every way to maximize the best result. And I believe the requested variance is not substantial.

I second.

Okay, motion has been made.

Seconded?

I second.

I'm sorry. Let's vote. Evie?

I vote to approve. Approve.

Zach? I approve. Tamara?

Approve.

Four out of four approve. Variance granted. Relief to permit building with expanse of blank exterior walls without window or door openings. I want to ask a question about that. We talked about the two windows on the side of the building. They still stay, correct? So you do have transparency, correct? Yes. And do you feel you need this?

The variance? It's for the back wall.

Oh, the back wall.

Got it. Two walls. Two walls, but primarily that back wall where there's no window, that's where all the coolers and everything are located, mechanical rooms, et cetera.

So let's make a motion either pro or con regarding that.

PB Harmon Zuckerman, I move the board approve the variance for the relief to permit the building with expanse of a blank exterior wall with out a window or door openings. PB Harmon Zuckerman, This the request the request is. John Potter, Not self created it's where his walking cooler is and there's been ample time for the police to chime in and they feel that it's there's enough windows and lighting there to see in.

Hal Hallstein, Okay, motion made to approve second. Hal Hallstein, Second motion made and seconded will take a roll call vote Evie yay or nay.

Karen Hollweg, A yay I vote to prove. PB John Gerstle, SAC I vote to approve.

PB John Gerstle, I approve camera yay four out of four it passes. PB John Gerstle, The next area variances the relief to permit 46% ground floor transparency, where a minimum of 60% is required. PB John Gerstle, We need emotion on this area variants.

I'll do the motion. I move that the board approve this variance. The variance will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a detriment to nearby properties if granted, as just stated throughout the proceeding. The coordination with police and with the need to have that reduced transparency to allow for certain equipment against other walls. I think the balance has been struck in the most reasonable manner. The benefits sought by the applicant may not be achieved by some feasible method other than the proposed variance. The process has described of the various iterations that they've attempted. I think they've done their best to achieve that feasible method and the requested variance is not substantial. Okay, motion has been made.

Second, please.

I second.

Take a roll call vote, Evie.

Approve.

Zach?

Approve.

I approve, Tamara. Yay. Pass. Four out of four. Moving along. Relief is requested from the requirement that rooftop mechanical features be set back from roof edges and screened from view. We're talking about an area of variance. Discussion?

Yeah, I'd like to have a little discussion. Is there anything you can do with that? I understand you don't want to say, but is it like even, not a fence, but...

I mean, to be honest.

Just for aesthetics?

Yes, I mean, to be honest, you said it, for aesthetics, you wouldn't want to put a fence on a roof.

No, not at all.

Imagine having, because that's the only solution. I mean, you don't even get to look at it from the front. from Fifth Avenue, you don't get to see it, or 125th, or New Turnpike. You literally get to only see these two beautiful pieces of mechanicals. They're very, very nice, they look, from the back of the building. Are they shiny? They're very shiny, stainless steel. They look very nice, very well built. They're like the best of the best.

They're small? How big are they? I need a concept.

I mean, they're like... Do you want to show them how... It's like maybe the size of that plan. I mean, that's the height of it.

So it looks like a chimney.

Correct. Yes, it's two chimneys. That's basically what it is.

So they're not like big condensers and stuff like that. Okay.

Nice. Yes. So as you see, you only get to see them from the back of the building.

But that shows you what it looks like.

Yes. That's what they look like from the back of the building.

Is this from your house? That's from the street.

Even further away. That's from the street level. My house, we have to walk up steps to get to it.

Is it from Northern Drive?

His house is right here.

The drive extension. That's exactly where the angle road.

Northern driving this guy.