Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I'm not so sad. I don't know where everybody sits.

Yeah.

Hold on.

Sorry. I'm just

oh, this

oh, city council. No planning.

Hello?

Bart, should we hold off for a few minutes?

Yeah. Just give her a small sec. Thank you.

Alright. We

will, call to order the planning commission meeting for 05/19/2026 at 07:01PM. And we have a roll call, please.

Paul? Yep. Walsh. Here. Aye. Here. Anderson.

Here.

Keller.

Here.

And I apologize. Is it Barak? Mhmm. Okay. Shadow. And it looks like, Commissioner Niles is absent.

Okay.

Thank you.

Alright. Looks like, next on the agenda for tonight, we have, a round of, public comment. This is for the public's opportunity to comment about any item on the agenda, including items for final act final action. And just to note, the the one item later on the agenda is just a workshop, so there will not be any public comment during that. So if there's any public that would like to speak, please state your name and city, please.

Tyler Sanders. Ames, good evening, Planning Commission. The the downtown sub area design guide, the changes to the design review process, and the new design overlays, policies all seek to foster a more predictable design process and more efficient land use. They they make a lot of progress in doing so by incentivizing density, streamlining bureaucracy, and clearly defining the specific form the building should take shape in. Now there's one critical blind spot in these documents that stands to undermine all of these efforts. That is the parking policy. Now I now I understand that the the use table says

it needs to

be

updated and that it this will be revisited in more depth at a later date, but it's really important to get ahead of this critical issue now. Parking is often referred to as the black hole of land use. It's overlooked, understudied, and often treated as inconsequential, but this could not be further from the truth. We as a city want high value land use, more density, better housing affordability, less automobile dependency, and more multimodal transportation, and parking requirements are diametrically opposed each and every one of these goals. Parking parking requirements are based on bad assumptions and bad data and produce a host of negative externalities.

There is no reason that eighty years later, we should still be running with them in the same form. Parking requirements require low value land use by law. In practice, parking minimum mandates function as an invisible tax on our local economy, forcing developers to build subsidized car storage in quantities that would not otherwise exist on on land that should be generating wealth and fiscal resilience for our community. And this is to the tune of of tens of thousands of dollars per spot that we exact on these businesses. Parking requirements are a primary driver of auto automobile dependence, not a result of it.

Let me repeat that. Parking requirements drive automobile dependence. They they distort urban form, man mandating many many sites to be more parking than building. They produce lots of space between buildings, making it harder to walk or bike, thus locking in automobiles as the dominant mode. Downtown, for example, is successful because of its lack of parking, not despite it.

Because of this fact, we need to start with parking reform or we'll be waiting for a multimodal future that never comes. We're also right around the corner from being subject to state parking laws when we reach this 30,000, population threshold. So do we really want to perpetuate land use poor land use for, five more years? Now there's only so much I can say in this three minute public comment. That's why I've left some resources for each of you.

I'll I'll also be sending that out. But, please, I I urge you to consult these resources. Please feel free to reach out to me personally if you'd like to learn more about parking. But it is of the utmost importance that we familiarize ourselves with the most modern best practices in regards to this critical area of land use policy.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

You're more parking. Thanks, Anthony.

Rick Marshall, Campus Washington. It's a good evening, commission staff. You know, I saw that the draft downtown design manual is on the agenda, and I I had a chance to look through the document. There's a lot of great work in there, and it is very readable. But one area of concern is is how we are looking at parking requirements. You know, right now, we have a DC zone, which has flexible parking requirements for projects of half a block or less. I think those flexible requirements are one of the reasons we have both Clara Flats and the Livingston. You know? And I like to draw attention to these two projects because on tax value per acre basis, they're likely our two most valuable properties in campus. Right?

And unless we wanna increase the tax burden on other properties, own, I think it makes sense to encourage more of this type of redevelopment. You know, vacant land just across the street from Clara Flats is assessed at $800,000 per acre compared to Clara at potentially $25,000,000 an acre, once the the they're done with their tax abatement. You know, the other big reason we have new redevelopment downtown is because of walkable 4th Avenue. So it's a big selling point, and it's not lost on real estate agents. You know, just scroll through Zillow listings and see how many times, you know, charming comes up.

And the main reason we have a walkable 4th Avenue is because it was built before use based zoning and overly restrictive parking requirements. You know? So the thing we most love about Downtown Camas, a walkable main street, couldn't be built today, and I and I think that's a mistake. And it's not just that our downtown blocks are charming and help sell real estate all over Camas. They are also very economically productive.

Those old mixed use buildings, you know, without much on-site parking generate tax value, you know, roughly $88,000,000 per acre, and they also contribute sales tax revenue. You know? So my suggestion is to not increase parking requirements anywhere in the downtown area and possibly really looking really look at eliminating parking retirements altogether. If not citywide, then at least in the downtown area. As you guys are probably aware of, you know, parking requirements don't have a good history, and the rationale for them doesn't hold up to any kind of serious analysis.

The immediate concern is that we slow the redevelopment of some of our downtown blocks. GP has essentially five blocks on on the West edge of downtown that are ready to go. Blocks 425960, and land North Of 7th And East Of Division. Basically, that trailer parking north of our free parking lot. These have already been rezoned. They are not part of any cleanup effort. Right? And let me stress one final point. You know, reducing or eliminating parking requirements does not mean eliminating parking. Developers are still able to build parking if they think it makes land use sense and most likely will.

Sea Clara Flats, the Livingston. But relying on the market to allocate a scarce resource land, instead of centralized planning, which, you know, even with the best of intentions, is unlikely, to produce an efficient or desirable outcome.

Any other member of the like like the? Yeah. ID.

Commissioner, we have no one with their hand raised via Zoom.

Okay. Thank you. Alright. Seeing no other, public comment, we will move on to the approval of the 04/21/2026 planning commission meeting minutes. I'll take a motion and a second when

we're ready. It's submitted. Ready to submit it.

Alright. We have a motion to approve by commissioner, Keller and a second

by commissioner Burak.

Can we have a roll call vote, please?

Vote.

Yes. Put it on

Walsh? Yes. Aye.

Yes.

Anderson?

Yes.

Keller? Yes. And Burak? Yes.

Alright. The motion passes. Let's see. Next on the meeting agenda, we have our Camas twenty forty five zoning code amendments, and the presenter is Nicole McDermott with WSP.

Be before Nicole launches into it, for the record, Robert Mall, planning manager. I have not yet had an opportunity to meet the two new planning commissioners, so welcome. I know you've been on board for a little bit now. My son is a senior this year, so we've had lacrosse season for the final time. So that's why I missed the last several meetings. So welcome. I do wanna thank Sydney, our city clerk, for helping out. Carrie's away on on leave. So thank you for coming in on a on a Tuesday at seven. And as, some of our commenters mentioned earlier, to be clear, the staff is very well aware of partner requirement changes coming from the state.

It's just something that simply hasn't been ready for publication yet, so it's not we're not being remiss. It's just it's not ready for publication yet. But it will certainly come before running commission and city council. So it's it's not being swept away.

Great. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Valerie.

And with that, I'm gonna hand it over to Nicole, and then we'll go from there.

Thanks, Robert. Commissioners, thanks for having me here tonight. So Nicole McDermott, WSP, and then I have Brian Robinson with WSP as well, here. And so we will go through a a brief presentation tonight to go over the code amendments as well as, the downtown design manual. So Brian was our task lead on the downtown manual, so I'll let him do that portion, and I will cover the the code amendment.

So just, for those of you I haven't met before, I'm the consultant, project manager for the comp plan and downtown sub area plan project. So, excited to be here kind of at this stage in the process getting to code and implementation work. So as I said, this is what we will, go over tonight. So quickly on background, and then we'll go into some details on the design manual. We'll talk about we'll have discussion throughout.

We'll talk about the design review, chapter 18.19, changes we're proposing, and then a new chapter, for the Camus municipal code that is for our design overlay. So that's what we'll cover. Just briefly on the background of these projects, and you all have had updates on the projects, before, but just kind of for the benefit of it, anyone may may be listening in as well. We have been, for the last couple of years, updating the comprehensive plan and in conjunction with that, preparing a downtown sub area plan. So as part of those two projects, there are code amendments in order to implement new state legislation as well as new policies that have come out of the process for, you know, the downtown as well as for the comp plan and the city as a whole.

A key piece of the implementation for the downtown sub area plan was also a downtown design manual and an update to the broader city design manual to to have a more specific just downtown manual that really speaks to the design and implementation of the sub area for downtown. So that's a lot of what we, you know, want to cover tonight. This will really help, you know, frame how future development can look and feel and contribute to the urban environment in in downtown. So, with that, I'll turn it over to Brian, and, we're happy to take questions as we go. We can also kind of quickly run through our slides and go back.

So we'll just kind of leave it to you all, but but interrupt and, let us know at any point.

Well, hi, everyone. Thanks thanks for having me. It's nice to meet you all. Yeah. I'm gonna run through basically a little bit of what the manual is about and all the sort of various kit of parts and components.

You can kind of see a list that that's here in front of you. We'll kinda get into a brief overview of what it looks looks like. I'm gonna try to do this also in about about ten or or twelve minutes, and I'm not afraid if you just wanna jump in and ask a question as as Nicole said. So we'll get into a little bit just kind of a brief overview, an applicability each of the different sections have are applied to different types of of of levels of permit as an example. A little bit of an educational piece kind of like a how to use, manual, the regulating pay plan, which, for lack of a for for lack of the right term, it's really the zoning plan.

You'll you'll very much recognize it from from the, downtown sub area plan. We'll run through the base zoning districts. Use in parking, which as a discussion topic, obviously, that's that's still being worked out. A series of street types that have been identified for the downtown and then the design standards that are associated with that. So I will try to to be quick again here in about ten minutes and and just jump in if you need to.

So in terms of the design manual, each each section of this manual is applicable applicable essentially to different types of permits. And so the first thing we have to do is establish that. This section essentially tells you which of the various sections of the report would apply as an example to an occupancy only situation versus, an all major alteration, that has an exterior change. Just as an example, the use in parking may may may apply to to an occupancy permit, whereas the building form requirements, which are gonna be in the base zoning districts wouldn't apply to every permit as an example. And so this first section kind of sets up that that applicability, so it's a very clear understanding of which sections of of of the document you you would need to review your development by.

It also begins to lay out sort of a six step process for how you would move through the manual. I wanna be clear. I don't expect anyone to read, kinda hear what's on the screen. I know we're gonna make sure that you all have this, as well. I'm not sure if it's been distributed, but okay. So there's a lot of detail that's gonna be in there, so I'm gonna kinda be high level, at this point. But if you have specific questions, we can certainly answer them. So it kinda begins to get into that six stage process of moving through through the manual. The how to use section is in a very educational section. Basically, there's a page or two on each of those which kind of talks about the why and the basics of what you're doing when you're looking at the section.

As an example here, just kind of on the left, you know, identify your property. You need to you need to, identify which base zoning district which is gonna be applicable to your property. You need to identify which street types are gonna be located immediately in front of it as an example. So this section is very, very simple, very illustratory, and the idea is it's basically explaining how each of the different sections work. This is often done in form based code types of projects and design manuals just to to to make sure that the user's clear on what they're doing in in each different section of the report.

So there's kind of a how to use component. The regulating plan section, this is really kind of one of the the really kind of the heart of it, not unlike a zoning plan. You should recognize this very clearly. The four base zoning districts that are that were identified in the sub area plan are each clearly identified. In this case, there are two additional zoning districts.

You can see sort of the green and sort of the purply bluer bluer color there, which is heavy industrial. This basically directs you, you know, for those two kind of existing zoning districts which apply throughout the city. It sort of directs you back to the existing zoning code. And then each of these, four districts, it defines essentially the building development envelope standards, which are gonna be associated with each of those. So the first real task here is you go there, you understand which of these districts applies to your property, and you'd understand which central street types.

The street types are probably a little bit hard to see on this map. They're sort of a black dotted line, but we have a street street plan, which we'll show here in a minute, which identifies them a little more obviously. So that's a kind of the key and heart of the plan, the the design manual. This is the first thing you would sort of really go to when using it. Each of the base zoning districts, so there's four.

Again, you'll probably recognize them, the historic Main Street core. There's the the downtown mixed use medium, the downtown mixed use low rise, and then the downtown residential. And each of these are gonna have a spread that looks just like this in the document. That spread basically contains three core things, purpose and intent and applicability, which are kind of just sort of the basics of why the district exists. You'll probably recognize that from a lot a lot of lot of zoning districts have a very similar thing.

So on the left there, you'll see sort of just an example of of what the cross section is and what the typical character looks like, the purpose and intent. And then the sort of second column from the left that that you'll see there, it goes into sort of what are the general standards, which really talk about building height and building use. And there's a distinguishing feature here that I'll go into a little bit later, is ground floor versus upper floor use. That was a distinguishing thing that the committee really wanted to bring out, especially in the historic Main Street core. So that begins to talk about the basics of height, the basics of use in that section.

You can see that each of the sections, there's kind of a diagram up top, which also sort of illustrates kind of explains what you're essentially reading there. And that's sort of the general standards. And on the full right side of that spread, you can see there's basically two sets of development standards, one which are really all about the lot requirements there on the left, and then one which is the setback requirement. So it's essentially all the form components of each of the base districts. And just to kinda run through these very quickly on your lot requirements, you're gonna have your minimum maximum lot sizes, which are are pretty pretty straightforward.

You're gonna have your lot widths, your lot depths, and all those components, lot coverage, your percentage, which you would essentially need to build out on that property, and then required open spaces or common spaces that are gonna be associated with with each property. And then sort of the far right column, you'll see the setback requirements. You tend to have primary street, setbacks. We also have an upper level setback, which is utilized in a couple of the base zoning districts, whereas you would go up to a certain height, you would begin to setback. And a lot of that was developed, really to be respectful of that that historic Main Street core area.

And, we even made a change recently here in the last meeting, to add one to to along 3rd Street as well. So you have your primary street setbacks. You have your side street setbacks. You have your side yard, rear yard, and then parking setback, which is one. As we begin to talk about where parking on the site, we're trying to sort of eliminate it from being close to the street in a lot of areas, and buffering it as an example of things that we try to do, as well. So that's sort of generally what each of the base districts are gonna look like. This, again, just as kind of an example of the historic Main Street core. Then you're gonna have use the next section you're gonna have associated with that. So I'd go to there. I would understand all the form requirements, right, in terms of the bulk that I can essentially build on-site, the uses and the setbacks.

The next component would be the use in parking. Right. But it gets clear that this is sort of still underway. The downtown this district is sort of a, you know, bit of an overlay just kind of here in the downtown area. So this section is being currently resolved with the broader use section that's in the sort of overall zoning code. So, essentially, the use and parking pieces are being worked out. I think it's worth noting on here that you you'll sort of see the permitted conditional prohibited temporary. That kind of is is very similar to the way the rest of the the code kind of works. The two distinguishing features here is that the committee was really interested in looking at, two basic things. One is distinguishing distinguishing between upper floor and ground floor uses.

This tends to be something which is really important, when you're looking at sort of main streets and areas that you wanna activate. The goal here really is that we're basically basically along 4th Street, we're requiring that there be a primary primary type of retailing. We're calling it active retail uses along that. Just maybe an example, one of them that a lot of people like to debate is a bank is a bank an active user or passive use. Maybe fifty years ago, it was an active use because people were going in and out of it all day.

But today, it's really seen more as a passive use, right, because it drives less foot traffic. So the distinguishing between passive and active use in upper and Ground Floor are two key things, which this kind of does differently, and I would say over and above what the current, the rest of the zoning code, does. So two of the districts where we're identifying we're we're utilizing that as a tool, obviously, in the historic Main Street core. There's a requirement for, primary or, sorry, active retailing that's gonna be on the Ground Floor there as well as, I wanna say, in the downtown residential kind of along the main two corridors that enter the city. We're essentially allowing for there to be certain types of retail on the Ground Floor as those begin to transition uses over time.

But those are the only two two ways that it's really being, utilized, there as well. So that's still being worked out. Oops. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry. That's okay. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

I sorry. Can you just I I'm one of the new commissioners. Can you Sure. Compare that to what we currently have in terms of the the zoning and what's allowed?

Sure. I mean, the way the I mean, you're gonna jump in too. But, you know, the way it currently does, it doesn't distinguish between those two things. I mean, commercial is kind of all put together into one sort of bucket, which which is not an uncommon thing. Let me just be clear. In form based codes, lot of time, that's where a lot of my world has has spent my time. When you're kind of working these historic areas and and main streets and areas where you're trying to be really sensitive, it's a common tool is to separate them between active and passive. And you wanna require or pull active uses on to the streets where there's more life. But to the way you do it today, it's all kinda just identified as commercial.

And zoning goes into effect sorry. I'm still not familiar with how it works. Would that impact the the current tenants on 4th Street?

There's vesting with if if there if there's a a change in terms of the uses and some might be considered permitted today but, you know, prohibited later that there's vesting. But we really tried not to, you know, intentionally or unintentionally create conflict of uses and things like that. The the table we have today is very similar to most cities, but it's an antiquated way of doing it. And it's tough to you can either have a table that has every conceivable use, which would be pages and pages and pages, or sort of generally accepted uses for your downtown versus your regional commercial, which will be treated differently than here or neighborhood commercial. And then you try to anticipate, like, the intensity of some of the uses.

Because, like, a neighborhood commercial is something that's gonna be a little bit more traffic based and, whereas regional commercial, that's hundred ninety second. That's thirty eighth. That's, you know, these these heavily trafficked areas.

I do like I just think of, like, some of the tenants on Forest Street. Some of them are, like, know, definitely not retail based. Like, there's a church, I think. There's a realty office, stuff like that. It sounds like we're we're looking for stuff that is a little more draw of a draw for foot traffic compared to some of the current tenants.

But it wouldn't change it wouldn't it wouldn't retroactively affect those tenants. I mean, I think there is a trigger point in the code in which you're making an improvement, a change of use that then the new code applies, and that's that applicability section upfront too. So that lays out when it really applies, and you have to meet the new standards versus the standards that went into effect when, you know, that use was established in that location. Yeah. And that applies everywhere.

So that's a great question and applies throughout these code changes that we're making. So not just for downtown and other places too, when we'll talk about later tonight the design overlay. It doesn't apply to existing properties that stay as they exist today. But if you you are to redevelop your property, then those new standards would would apply.

Yeah. Religious institutions kinda have the a sort of an overarching protection federally. So you can't just unilaterally. So you can't be in the retail area. It's yeah. Kinda can go wherever.

One question actually because I had a very similar question, but it's more on the residential lots as you have downsides because this being the old part of town, you see very wide, breezy, different varying lot sizes. In the minimum lot sizes, are are is there anything where we're creating a thing that's like, okay. Somebody there was a house. Somebody bought it. It's a derelict house. They wanna build another house, but they wouldn't be able to because it's no longer the minimum lot size.

Those are, that's a good question too because we have, nonconforming, provisions in our codes, whether it's nonconforming use or structure. You know, often, we'll if it's if it's still an engaged use, hasn't been vacant for more than a year, then, you know, we'd somebody could rebuild a home or remodel and things like that. Or, you know, often what we'll see, especially if it's in, you know, kind of around the Safeway area that's currently a mixed use zone, you see conversions into commercial businesses and so forth.

And I would say, typically, the lot sizes I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. The lot sizes being allowed by the new code are going to be smaller than what is allowed by the older code too. So you you wouldn't have a situation, I wouldn't imagine, where you've got a lot that is too small to per the per the new code too. Okay.

That that would hold on.

Yeah. No.

How about? Okay. Got a Zoom issue here. I'm just gonna ignore that. Yeah. Okay.

Cool. Fine.

Okay. So that's use and parking. That's still being evolve evolved a little bit. So as at as we progress the kind of use use section of the main zoning code, this will this will be updated, and that's probably gonna be within the next week or two, I would say. So you will get one more version of this, just to be clear. Okay. The next key piece here in terms of the street the street network, there's kind of, like, two real pieces in this in this manual. There are these kind of zoning and form related tools, and then there are these public realm tools. And, really, the street network is what begins to help identify what public realm requirements are gonna be associated with each property. So as I kind of said initially, I go look at the regulating plan.

Here's what district applies, and here's what street types apply. This just, is is the street type map. We essentially have five street types throughout the area. Main Street, 4th Street, that always fairly obvious there. That that's that is the main street.

We have connector streets, which you can see there in purple, and those are exist consist primarily of all the other downtown streets. We have a series of gateway streets, which you can see are the blue streets and kind of the streets that lead into downtown. And then we have neighborhood streets, are the orange, and you can see that fabric goes a lot through through the existing residential, areas through there. So five basic street types, and those essentially have different public realm requirements that would be associated, with those developments. This section tends to apply only to new construction and major renovations as well. If you wanna chime in?

I think you said purple for connector, but I think the green is connector. It's kinda hard to see. Green is connector, then purple is the mobility.

Thank

you. So, yeah, we just didn't touch on the mobility streets, which are, I think, intended to be more the bike ped specific

Yep.

Connected streets as well. Thank you.

Yeah. So so you would yep. Here it is. It's larger, actually too. So here, just just so I can see it's a little clearer there too. So you can see the main street is sort of the darker red. That's fourth. The connector, which is kind of the green ring, which rings rings downtown, and then you can see the bike the the bike pet ones are are the more the purple streets. So I would go to this. I would go to my property now and understand which of these streets applies, and then I would have a set of standards associated with each of those.

And this this, interestingly enough, is a tool that could be utilized in other overlay districts going forward. So one of the reasons it hasn't currently yet, but one of the reasons why this system was invented is because you can basically use this in your other overlay districts going forward. So trying to establish a tool that could be used in the future. Okay. So street types. Each of those these street types are gonna dictate essentially three pieces, a set of frontage standards and types that would be associated with each building, public realm standards, which essentially occur in the space that's gonna be between the curb and your property line. Right? So it's where the sidewalk and all the other stuff is. It's not your property. You may have to maintain it, but it's it's the public realm.

And then a set of general standards, would apply broadly to to to any any item, that is done within the public right of way. So frontage types. Frontage type, it's a little bit of a form based kind of terminology. This is a tool that's utilized in essentially on building types. When we have a building, it's basically the way that it's basically the way that a building interacts with the street.

One of the things, you know, one of the urban design kind of worlds angles here is that, really, a lot of times what happens in that space is what makes or breaks great public environments is really when it's active, when it's lively, when it has stuff. If you can imagine walking down a street, you're you're right next to a blank wall, that kind of kills the vibe. Right? I've I've done a series of public life surveys where we would map how people walk and they will get to a blank wall sometimes and wanna turn because they're not aware, but it it really affects it. So requiring the frontage type essentially requires a level of interaction between the building and the public realm.

And we have established by looking through the fabric of the area, basically nine different frontage types. You can see them down there on the left, the alcove, the cafe, a civic frontage type, four court, porch, shop, stoop, walk up, and yard type frontage. And, essentially, part part of your application, you would say, here's here, I'm building on this site, and you would select one of the nine frontages, which would be a part of that. The frontages aren't super onerous. I'll say that the requirements and details aren't extensive. They're really about getting someone to make it interactive. You can kinda see here the alcove frontage here, just an example. It's kind of a unique type here in downtown. It's sort of set back a little bit and there's a little, you know, a little space underneath an awning area. There's quite a few of those.

There's gonna be a few requirements here for, like, oh, the the alcove can only only be 50% of the width, right, of the front of the building. The alcove needs to be a minimum eight feet. Right? So there's a a space for someone to stand under there. There's usually about four or five different requirements for each of those, and they're allowable within each of the different, types as an example.

You see here, maybe you can see the mouse here kind of over here in the bottom right. Alcove frontage, it probably makes sense for a connector street or a mobility street, but it wouldn't be allowed on a main street as an example. So the frontage types are sort of calibrated to the type of environment that that and the character that you'd like to see, and that's really the goal of the frontage standard. Right? There tends to be an example as you can kinda see here, and there tends to be a a small diagram that illustrates what the frontage looks like. It allows really a lot of flexibility and basically requires some of the minimum standards for making sure that buildings interact with the public realm. And that's kind of the goal of the frontage type. Oh, yeah. Sure.

Question. I don't know if we have this scenario, but let's say we have an existing building that has the alcove, and they're gonna do some kind of major renovation maybe inside, but and they're on Main Street. And so this so you can't have it on Main Street. If your major work is elsewhere, are you then forced to have to change the change the alcove front

if It's a it's a great question. So in terms of applicability, it would depend on how you would classify this one. So you can see here in terms of the frontage standards, which are gonna be section seven, it could potentially apply if you did do a certain level of it. Right? So I think that's something we could we can certainly adjust. Certainly, from a new construction perspective, you know, you wanna give that an idea.

Yeah. Oftentimes, we've looked at, just even in current situations, you know, the level of work to be done will dictate sort of the level of upgrade you may need to do. For instance, on ADA accessibility, certain building and fire codes, even from a design perspective with the exterior of buildings, you know, what's gonna be major design review versus minor. You know? So I think it's important to to have these base standards and trigger points, but also have some flexibility and discretion given the situation. We don't wanna create a financial hardship either.

Yeah.

But the idea is to elevate as much as you can. Okay.

Yeah. Thank you.

Great. Okay. So each, yeah, so each development would essentially you you choose a frontage type, and there's a series of requirements associated with those. So that your street type would would determine what is allowable there. The next real piece here is gonna be the public realm standards, which are really, again, what happens between kind of the the private the line of the private property and the curb line, and and in some cases, the building face as well.

There's a there's a few few pieces where it does that. But, essentially, those public realm components are gonna address things like ground floor transparency, pedestrian entrances, materials, materiality colors. It's it's not extensive. I wanna be clear on on that one. Setback buffering, weather protection, tree canopy, lighting, and other basics that would would would be involved in it.

Each each, you can kinda sort of see here. Each of the street types, it's gonna have a map, sort of an example here of what the street character tends to look like. And then the following pages, they're gonna have essentially essentially requirements as you see over here to the right to talk about within the facade zone. There's gonna be a certain minimum depth of retailing, a minimum depth minimum percentage of ground floor transparency, limitation on links of blank walls. Right?

It's just gonna go through sort of all the different details that are gonna be required. So depending on what street type, you'll have to sort of meet these components. It's worth noting, you'll see over here on the left that the the public realm has basically been broken into three zones. There's kind of this blue zone, which is really what happens on the facade of the building. So as an example, signage, which which hangs out. Right? It it it's on the building. Right? We have banding, which is is potentially required. Then there's zone two, which is gonna be what happens in that space right in front of the windows.

That's about a four foot zone that has anything from outdoor seating, right, or planters and other types of elements which which may move around. Then we have a clear sidewalk zone you can sort of see here. And then there's that space that's sort of where the trees are at, right, the tree lawn, basically, all that between the curve. There could be a variety of different things that occur, in that space. And so each of the street types is gonna essentially have requirements, for that.

And they contain, you know, sort of diagrammatic examples of what what that looks like as an example. So each street, you're gonna have a frontage type, then you're gonna have what so you have, what do I do with the facade of my building or what can I do with the facade of my building? Then you're gonna have what happens in the space between the facade and the curb line, and then you're gonna essentially have a set of floating standards which will apply to anything that you do. And that just an example, landscaping areas, hardscaping, lighting, screening, public art. We actually need to take the parklets out of here now that I think because we've removed that on the last round.

And so that would be other that would be other types of as an example, lighting, the downtown committee had worked on, worked for a number of years on some lighting requirements, essentially six types of lighting and some minimum requirements. We've integrated that so that as you go out building lighting is an example. They wanted to make sure that buildings along Main Street are lit, and there's a series there's requirements that would be associated with that as an example. And so those would kinda be sort of very generalized standards. Again, a lot of that's in the document.

Then the other the final section really is definitions and measures. This this really is what it is what it says. Essentially, all the new language, you know, is part of the district. There's some words in here that frankly aren't in the zoning code, so we have to sort of begin to define them. And then as well, there's, the ways that you might measure things, sometimes a little bit different than kind of you do in traditional zoning, and we have sort of a a description of of how that's that's basically done. And so this is sort of you don't know what it says. You're able to get kinda go to the back and be able to understand that. And I think that is what we got. So I think I did twelve minutes. Did I many minutes?

More than twelve, but no questions in between. Okay.

No. That's that's great. Happy to answer questions. Yeah.

More questions? So for, some of the project that is, say, in, somewhere in downtown where this design manual applies, first, I guess, the last design, guide through 2008. Is that correct?

Yeah. Pretty sad.

And that's what currently is in use. Right?

Yeah. The where it was derived from was, at the time, there was, one of the bill building owners downtown that over the weekend decided to put up a bunch of t one eleven sliding over the building and paint a barn red, create a little bit of a stir. So the the mayor at the time together a committee, and they came up with design review manual. It's had a couple tweaks here and there, but, given the amount of change that we've had, coming from the state in terms of not only just residential development and commercial development overall, but also focusing on a downtown suburb area plan, it was time to look at a complete refresh.

And then the the design approval currently happens by, like, a committee. Right? There's, a design

There is a design review committee that offers a recommendation to staff. The decision still comes from staff if it's an administrative level or the hearing examiner if it's something that needs a condition use permit or something like that.

Given the proposed changes, that would be going away possibly.

The committee.

Committee would be going away. It would just be with staff, and they would use these frontage type, like the everything has been discussed in this presentation, right, to decide, approve, or no. Right? Just just getting that getting it all straight in my head. Okay. Hey. Walk me through, like you have a a a project, if you're a developer with a project or landowner with a project, in downtown, walk me through, like, the process of getting that approval, and using this guide. Just kind of compare the two now versus

Oh, you know, I would I would say that, you know, it's the fundamentally, the process is the same with with the exception of not having a design review committee, but it provide the new standards provide a a much clearer and objective standards for staff to be able to work with the developer and their design team because it's incumbent upon them to also read up on what's required. And they design we we don't design it for them. We have, that's why we have a variety of choices to to pick from, and then they kinda put together what they propose and part of the process.

To essentially provide more structure in terms of what they come up with, help them map to, like, oh, I have a alcove frontage or something like that as they are thinking about what they wanna do the bill.

Yeah. And to put this also in perspective, you know, for the most part, everything that's been down here has been here for a long time with the exception of, like, Clara and, you know, Livingston. They worked pretty well using our our design review manual that we have in place. But, I think the goal here is we we don't have a ton in place right now to help really focus on the existing historical structures that we have. You know?

Because if somebody really wanted to come in, they you know, they're it it would be easier for them to completely tear it out and put it in something that doesn't necessarily fit. This the idea of a a summary plan just to kinda take a step back. I don't know if Alan went through that with with you or not, but, you know, the there's the growth management act. That's, how we have to plan for our cities, within counties that have that certain population threshold. And we have to update that every ten years, which is what we're doing right now.

An added element to the GMA is the option, to do summary planning, which is a little bit more of a refined focus. So we're doing two things right now. We're doing a citywide comprehensive plan update, which is everything, including urban growth areas and areas that have not been annexed into the city yet. And we're doing a focused study downtown specific, to provide, much more focused guidance. And the the we've had a committee comprised of stakeholders in the downtown area and the port and, things like that to to what applies in the downtown sub area isn't necessarily gonna fit in Grass Valley or North Shore or, you know, Green Mountain. I don't know if that that helps track.

I had a quick one just with Garth. I might be jumping ahead, but the active retail versus the passive retail, is there gonna be, like, an overlay on that? I didn't when I went through the packet, I didn't see a ton of I know we wanted active on the on on 4th on Main.

There's not an overlay, but there is gonna be what what it the manual does is very clearly list which are considered active, which are considered passive. Okay. And it designates which districts you're required in on the Main Floor. The challenges that we're facing is that well, it's not really a challenge. You said what's happening currently is is the whole zoning code and the whole use section is being worked through. I kinda we kind of work through this independently, and we're now sort of reconciling those two to make sure that

more to come on that. I was just, like, looking, like, where was the Yeah. Somewhere the active was gonna go, but I didn't see where passive was particularly going. But I Yeah. We have some street designations and

some Yeah. The the way that it's done, the man the the biggest place where the requirement for primary or active uses is gonna be along 4th Avenue. That's where there was a we wanna make sure that we're getting very active pedestrian driven. The way that you tend to do this in the other areas is you allow active and passive, and and you do let the market right? You you wanna require it where and you wanna be flexible to it in in in other cases. There's nothing wrong with certain types of more passive uses right around the corner from a Yeah. Yeah. I get You know? Like, you don't and you won't wanna, like, limit someone's ability to do that. You wanna, like so the so as an example, I I believe you can even have passive uses on the 2nd Floor in Main Street, but not on the 1st.

We wouldn't mind if there's a quieter commercial use up there as as an example.

And, yeah, so I think their regulation will be more on the active use front. And then it's kinda every passive will be allowed free Yeah. Everywhere.

Commercial will be kinda, like, specific active for very specific areas. That's will be more of, the Yeah.

Yeah. But you gotta break them apart to call them a name right right in the zoning code. It's a

great idea too. Really one walkable downtown that has doors and retail that are interesting to everyone. The one I mean, one question on this is, and I'm trying to walk my head around, is let's take a Lutz hardware. Love Lutz hardware, but it's a big lot right on 3rd or and and if someone was to come in and develop that and what they proposed was a Frank Gehry type building. By the way, I should say I like Frank Gehry, but it's not an appropriate, very different look than our current downtown.

Is this discouraged? It to me, I'm it seems like as long as they made the right frontage and stuff, that would be perfectly allowed here. Or how basically I'm really kind of questioning is, does the architectural keeping the character of the street play into that?

I mean, this is a long long asked question and a lot of codes. I mean, I mean, our philosophy my philosophy on it is that you're writing it for 99 95% of bad things. So the reason why we write these codes is to make sure that the bad ones are good. You it doesn't eliminate creativity within that. I mean, there's envelope standards not unlike anything.

It doesn't really speak to the specifics of design, materiality, that to a level that would be controlling or stringent on design, in my opinion. There's a lot of flexibility for creativity within it if you're meeting the kind of build out and and all those requirements. I mean, one of the things this basically does at a primary level in those districts is it it says pull the mass up to the street and put the other stuff behind, which is a pretty basic thing to to do. Right? So, I mean, not that Frank Gray is gonna develop that lot, but, I mean

Hey. I do. I I use an extreme Yeah.

Absolutely. And it's a very

Either love his work or hate his work. There's no Yeah.

And I I mean, I think some of some of what Brian is saying too and what the manual does is is really intended to help with that interaction up the street. You know? And so you if you get that right, it for 95 percent of the projects, you know, that's that's really what's going to matter the most. And I think in that extreme situation where there's something completely out of the ordinary being proposed, that would be something that would have to be kind of be worked out in a unique, you know, case. And and Alan and I actually talked about that kind of specific scenario in other places in the code as well where there is some flexibility to allow, you know, more creativity and but yet, still, we have standards that are intended to, you know, keep things the character somewhat consistent and that street activation and and all of all of those things as well.

It's important to note too. A lot of what's been presented has been informed by our downtown steering committee, and and we've taken it it's it's been through quite a bit of process over the last twelve months. It just hasn't been sort of just put together. Yeah. Because you could you could get hyperspecific. Right? You know? You know, the Bavarian themes or whatever. You know? But I think the idea is to allow for, you know, incentivize flexibility and standard, but also help guide for some continuity and really building the the activities and support. Get to the the level

of being an architectural standard. All short of that, for sure. Yeah.

We have a kinda goal or direction or vision from our our either council or our our our downtown, committee, about what how we want 4th Street and all of downtown to evolve.

Yeah. But let's see if there's certainly a lot of opinions on that. You know, we

know what we're, like, trying to build towards.

Oh, sure. Well, you know, we just very high level, and Nicole kinda correct me along the way because, really, they've been doing a lot of heavy lifting on this. You know, we've we've broken the the downtown area into different sections. We got, like, the existing residential over there, you know, other than Garfield, but then you've got the downtown core, but then you've also got South Of 3rd or the Safeway area thing. Yeah. Because that that's right there. So you've got these different areas that are gonna have some different guidance and standards because they're functionally and physically built differently as we speak today, but it doesn't mean that redevelopment will happen. So what does that redevelopment need to look like in those particular colored areas?

So is the goal to more maintain what we have in terms of foot traffic, uses, car traffic, or would you say it's to alter what we have?

I you know what? You're gonna get different opinions. I mean, from a from an economic development standpoint, livability standpoint, we wanna be able to to add more residential to create more of the vibrant downtown areas for after hours, not just shut everything down at nine. We have to balance a lot of the state standards that are coming down, whether it's with, a lot of new residential standards for development and densities, parking standards, things like that. You have those, like, with the DCA, who've got very passionate opinions about, you know, their core and what they would like to see in different areas.

And then you've got folks who live, you know, in these homes that were part of their original port of camp port of canvas. And some people love the historical character, and then you've also seen some ultra modern things built, you know, just a a couple blocks away. And then we also have the mill, this large presence over there that they don't really wanna do any sort of significant sub area planning. They are an active mill. They're even though they're doing their some cleanup efforts and revitalization as what as they call it.

So you know? Because some folks want, like, to see this Vancouver Waterfront, you know, part two. But that's not gonna happen right now because you still got an active mill. So I don't know if I'm answering the question, but the I guess from a staff perspective, I'll say that we wanna allow for thoughtful growth, for economic vitality, for livability, you know, then you're gonna get a whole bunch of different opinions on what people yeah. We have to have it all wiped forth or you know? I think we're we're blessed with some structure that allows for having some of these attributes and not just being bisected by a state highway like battlegrounds downtown, for instance.

And I would just add that this so the downtown sub area plan, the the purpose was to do just that. And so I just pulled up the vision on my phone from that I can I'll read. It's it's brief on for downtown. So this process, when we started the comp plan process and we started the downtown sub area plan process, the first phase of that was a visioning phase. And so we developed a vision statement that had us a separate, you know, vision for downtown, and that was developed with a lot of community input.

And then we had a community advisory committee for the comp plans specifically and then a downtown advisory committee for downtown, which have been really engaged in the sub area plan process and then in the design manual as well. And so what the vision that came out of that for downtown, it's a lot of what Robert said, but it's so charming, vibrant, and walkable. Downtown Camas is the city's living room. Downtown's history is complemented by new businesses and inclusive housing options. Expansion, resiliency, and die in a dynamic economic landscape are critical to its its success.

Downtown Camas anchors the community while fostering a culture of pride, support, and connection. So that is what we have been trying to implement through the new establishing that main street historic Main Street core and then allowing these other zones to really have more flexibility in development that then complement what exists on 4th as well and understanding that there are state legislation changes that affect the residential area. You know? And there is allowance for more density, the city has to, you know, abide by. And and so that has the ability to change those areas too. So The

sum of the presentation?

Or It's the design manual. So I do think my sections will be pretty quick. We wanted to quickly run through the design review. So the broader code, there are the couple of chapters that affect design, somewhat in downtown, but then throughout the rest of the city as well. So the existing chapter 18.19 design review, so there needed to be some changes to this section in order to, be consistent with the downtown manual.

So right now, the design review section references the the older city design manual. So we wanted to update that to make sure it's referencing the downtown design manual and that the downtown manual governs where there's a conflict in in the code that the manual is the more specific standards for for downtown. This so then the rest of the design review or the, the design review manual applies to projects outside of downtown. So it talks about commercial, multifamily, mixed employment, mixed use, and projects that are of those use types outside of downtown are subject to the broader city design review manual. But if you're in downtown developing a mixed use building, you you real you only have to adhere to the downtown design manual, not the broader, design review main.

So there were a few areas, again, where the principles these design principles are broad for downtown. They generally were consistent with what was in the downtown manual, but we added that that final bullet, making sure that it's very clear that the downtown sub area anything within the downtown sub area needs to meet the minimum requirements in the downtown design manual. And then there are the five, different guideline categories of guidelines that we largely did not change in, in our edits to this to this chapter. So a few of the design review changes, you can see in markup here, and then you've got the complete code in track, or in strike through and underline format in your packet as well. And there are a few state changes requiring clear and objective standards, so that's RCW thirty six seventy eight six three o.

So there's a requirement now that the city has to implement clear and objective standards trying to take the subjectivity out of design review. In some places, you know, people are finding that that's how, cities were limiting housing production. So that is one of the main reasons standards have to be clear and objective. And then, also, there have to be exceptions for requirements for facade modulation and upper level setback. So I don't if Brian didn't talk about that too much, but in the design manual, downtown design manual, there are some upper level setback requirements.

Well, we made a provision in this code. It had that can apply to affordable housing or other certain types of, like, passive, house construction or mass timber construction. So that's a state requirement. So, we have to make sure those things are consistent between the design main the downtown manual and and the broader code as well. And then design review, so this is where that change would would take place.

So this is the section of the code where design review was talked about. So that will go away, and now design review will occur, at the staff level, and then the decision will lie with the approval authority, be it staff if it's administrative decision or the hearings board or or counsel, or hearings examiner. So that is the main change here. So those changes are fairly straightforward and really just to update to be consistent with the downtown manual and, you know, bring in new state requirements and remove the design review committee, requirement too. With the clear and objective standards, we did see the need for a design review committee because the the committee was really about, you know, interpreting maybe more subjective standards too.

We we can't do that anymore, so not really a need for the committee. Any questions? K. And then this next piece is a bit, is is new. And so this is a new chapter that we will include in the zoning code.

So it doesn't have a chapter number yet, but design overlays. And so this has come from the the comp plan process when we were developing our land use alternatives initially in the comp plan process. We started with a couple of alternatives, and we were always talking about kind of corridors and hubs and centers, and that was kind of a an organizing framework of our land use concept in the comp plan. And then as that evolved and has turned into our final kind of land use map for the city, it how we implement that concept of corridors and hubs and centers where those were intended to be more walkable areas, have more street activation, kinda like everything Brian was talking about for downtown. There are other parts of the city where that stuff is important as well.

But we don't wanna go to the extreme of having as many standards and, you know, as detailed a design manual for the entirety of Canvas that we have for downtown. But how do we focus on those certain corridors and areas where we do want a little more intentionality on design? And so that now has transitioned into these design overlays. And this could connect to the street types that Brian was talking about as well. I think where we're at right now with it is that the the different levels of street types, the five different types, would be too complex for implementing that for the whole of the city.

And there's really just two different tiers of, corridors that exist from a design perspective in the city as far as what we would really kind of care about regulating. And so there's just there's tier one and there's tier two corridors. And tier one corridors are the primary entrances into the city. And then the tier two corridors are more of the primary corridors that move people around the city within the city itself. This is similar to the gateways and corridor standards that exist today in the city, but it's an evolution of that, to apply standards further along an entire roadway as opposed to just kind of at a gateway and an entrance to the city.

It also is a way to potentially allow commercial limited neighborhood commercial uses in otherwise residential areas where you're not allowing them in the base zone. So, you know, your your r six, your residential zone wouldn't necessarily allow a commercial use. But if you were along a design overlay, you could have a limited neighborhood serving commercial use on your property even if the underlying zoning doesn't doesn't allow it. And that is to create, you know, the corner store sort of aspect of a neighborhood, the coffee shop, the, you know, the flower shop, whatever it may be. Something to provide some retail commercial activation neighborhood, some mixing of uses at a neighborhood kind of scale.

Would that be, like, a conditional use permit? Or would

I we have it listed as a conditional use right now. That's still some of those use standards we're kind of working out the details of. But right now, it is noted in, in the design overlay standards as, as a use standard, and then it's also in the, the use codom. 18 o seven is the use authorization chapter of the code, and so we have a footnote in the use table as well that it is allowed under these certain conditions. It can only be 2,500 square feet, like the, you know, the building envelope, so it's limited in size.

We've talked about whether there's there wouldn't be additional parking required with it. You know? So is there traffic? I can see being a concern for people. So, you know, needing to think through those sort of aspects of of the use and the requirement.

So that is a lot of what the design overlays is intended to kind of set up. It's in it's intended to to be a more pedestrian focused environment, and and allow for some difference in uses. So there are specific standards that would apply whether you're in a tier one or tier two, or along a tier one or tier two overlay. Right now, it applies to the property as a whole. We're working out, you know, whether it needs to just apply to the first 150 feet of a property.

Or the way the standards are written, they're really frontage standards. So it can apply for the whole property because there might be an interior walkway that we also wanna make sure is well lit and connected. And, so we're working out some of those details, still and having those discussions. But, primarily, the standards, are the same. But for tier one, you know, again, those are those larger streets and more of the entrances to the city.

There are some requirements, for those design overlay streets that are not required for the more residential interior tier two, corridors. And then in addition to the standards that apply more broadly, there are specific features that, in within gateways. So the and those were on the the map just to go back. The stars kind of on the map are gateways on these, design overlay areas as well. So for that, we've we've done this list.

We kinda it's like a pick list of you know, you need to have a a number of features a specific number of features. We're not choosing for you which ones those are, but you need to include in your development if you're within a gateway this, you know, x number of of features from this list, again, to create some more kind of intention intentionality and a higher level of design in those. That is the design overlay code. So, again, a whole new chapter, but very similar to the existing gateway and corridors section of the design the design review manual, and that's included in the design review code now to gateways and corridors. So, this is just an evolution kind of of that.

Questions or comments? There any other cities that did this, like, five years ago, similar size, that you guys have been involved with WSP?

That

I mean, not that I can not that I've personally been involved with. I mean, the the general concept of, you know, a design overlay is certainly something that, you know, is implemented fairly often. But this is not coming from an example of, well, we did this in of somewhere else, and, it really was an evolution of this process and kind of the gateways and corridors, and then how do we extend that, you know, to these broader areas and and things?

I think this this round of, comprehensive plan updates is sort of, necessitated deeper dives on all smaller jurisdictions. Vancouver is a

whole another. It's statewide. This every city this size Yeah.

And there it's the, different regions of the state have different update timelines. So, Southwest Washington, this happens to be ours. So I think you're gonna see a lot of heavy lifting with Ridgefield and Canvas, some in Battleground, Washoe, a little bit. Who knows?

Portion of the city that will have a design overlay so that I the main corridor will be that portion. What is that? Is it a percent, 5%?

Yeah. I mean, probably 5%. It's it's pretty small. It would just be along the blue or the purple, know, roadways.

It would be comparably more expensive and more involved for a developer in the in those corridors to achieve the development of development.

It would be it would require more intentional development and design.

Maybe more guidance.

And and there is more guidance to, to that to that development. Pulling buildings closer to the street. You know, there's there's requirements as far as drive throughs, where they're kind of how they're allowed. Yeah.

I think it's trying to balance facilitating some development that the community would like to see, but also not making it unaffordable because then you also have building codes which are a whole separate. Yeah. And those are always updated, annually and come up with more standards and add to cost. And we're one of the only jurisdictions that requires fire sprinkling on all single family homes, for instance. That has an added cost. And

And we're not getting into the architectural standards, so to speak, here either. You know, we're not not dictating what the architecture necessarily needs to be or the material you need to use that can add to cost. It's really just about design, which doesn't necess I don't know. Brian probably has thoughts here. I don't actually think it adds cost.

Doesn't have to add.

Say it differently, but it doesn't have to

add.

Take the same stuff and do it in the right way.

Yeah.

Right? Same investment done in the the right way versus that investment done in a bad way. Right? It you could also add more to cost if you really want. So

Sort of along these lines, like, I don't really understand. So I think I understand the idea of having a design overlay, essentially advertising like, hey. If you would like to develop in this different way in this area, you can apply for a special use permit. That's something we're really interested with you on. I don't really understand, like, why have a pick list at that point? Because we're if they have to apply for, like, a conditional use permit, They're gonna talk to you. They're gonna fill out forms. There's gonna be engagement with, like, what does this look like?

Conditional use permit and if that is the direction that it goes just for the that's just for the retail or commercial nonresidential use in a residential zone. That wouldn't be for any use along a design overlay. So that would only be if you're in you know, if you're a within a residential zone and you decide that you want to turn your house into a coffee shop, then you would have a conditional use permit. But the the pick list is separate from the conditional use permit because the pick list is specific to gateways that are the stars on the map. So if you're developing a any kind of development, mixed use, commercial within a gateway, then you probably don't have a conditional use permit if that's allowed in the underlying zone, that use, but you have to develop to a to a different standard.

You have to you include different features from that pick list because you're within this gateway area.

It's it's reframing. Just to add to that, it's kinda reframing what we have in our current because we do have some gateways as of today. Fisher Investment over on 38th And Group when they did a a development agreement with the city, several years back. Being gateway there, they had to have a much higher level of landscaping and pedestrian connectivity for the apartments. Even for the the business, you'll often see a lot of Fisher employees taking walks during lunch breaks and so forth, different lighting design standards instead of, like, the brushed nickel looking cobra head lights, and maybe it's a sort of acorn or something like that.

It's some of those elements. Doesn't get to necessarily all the aspects of, like, the building itself other than location for it. You don't necessarily wanna see it parking up front, the building way in the back, it is to try to bring some of that to the front. So they they do have, approval for other buildings that aren't built yet that are into that apartment. So

So it sounds like the idea is just, I mean, it sounds like we just want to impose higher design standards on the entrances to campus, basically. Yeah. Kinda what it's what it sounds like. Okay.

And along the corridors as as well, some of these specific

And, you know, what and for you know, if you drive on Highway 99 over in Hazel Dell in that area, I mean, the the county's spent the last, you know, eighteen years trying to correct what was built in the sixties with, you know, these old buildings way in the back, all asphalt up front. So when they they have done some overlays to help pull some of these elements to the front, it takes time. But I think that's sort of what cities wanna avoid is all I imagine will recreate if that makes sense.

And some I I would just to to add to that real quick is I think some of it is what Brian was talking about too with when when someone's walking you know, to promote walkability in these areas to what adjacent to the corridor looks like will affect how people want to use that corridor. I think that's largely the intent of what we're getting at with the design overlays too. It's not just to, you know, implement additional standards so they look prettier. Sure. That that's nice.

But it's also so people engage with them in a different way. And so that, you know, there might be more interest in, you know, walking from point a to point b, and and and the design of those properties will be done in a different way to kind of change change the character of that corridor.

So what the way you're explaining is what you're making me think of think a little bit more like is it's about along those corridors trying to have some level of consistency. That's it. You don't have 80% of it designed to be this great walking or bicycling experience or more foresty type experience and then one just that ruins the whole you know, ruined 20% that ruined you know, makes it impassable and unusable for the other 80%.

Yeah. Definitely subjective. Yes. You are understanding that correctly. Yes. Consistency within the overlay is certain your

example of the 99 where there'll be some of it that's good, and suddenly it's like, you can't do anything.

You drive fast.

Know. Guess

I'm just a little skeptical. These are really big like, these are busy roads. These are, like, really major roads with a lot of traffic on them. And, like, they are highly unwalkable right now. And to imagine them being you know, like, not even, you know, what you have in downtown campus, but to be to imagine them being, like, somewhat more walkable is is is kinda it's kinda hard for me to to buy into.

Not all the roads are there yet. You know, 38th, I will say, because I live over there in Grass Valley and Lake Point, people use 38th a lot, both on pedestrian and bikes. I see it all the time. You know, PacRim also because it has a continuity all the way over to the neighborhood. People will go, you know, get over to, QOC.

Is it, you know, the downtown the like, Downtown Portland or something like that, that kind of level of activity? No. Of course not. Mean, we're still, audio oriented, but the elements are there for some of those those corridors. Lake Road, not as much, except for when, we've seen a lot more activity after, a pre station went in. And others just don't have the infrastructure there yet. So we're trying to plan for when it does come in, You know? Because capital, we can't from a city standpoint, can't build everything. We have to have, like, a growth plan in place for capital investments. But when development does come in, they then build that infrastructure for us.

Oh, that Yeah. Section of 38 Take a crack

at it.

Yeah. Please.

Put in the sidewalks and trees just recently. It's really opened up for for pedestrian use. It's now, like, safe as opposed to being on the side of the highway.

Which when did you say? Sorry. I missed

the first part.

My goal of gym.

There's a

section that we just put in trees and sidewalk and dramatically for

Oh, yeah.

Think it's walked out now two years ago. When,

yeah, when we moved here, my brother-in-law referred to 38th as Darwin Street. He said we were walking along it, and made a bad decision. Darwin advantage. That was before there was any it would basically, there was no walkway. There was no sidewalk.

Well, there's still none around that bend.

Right.

Oh, yeah. But, I mean, that that's a good point. But that's, what was just finished just for everybody on vacation. That was, you know, phase three of thirty eighth, essentially trying to get from where you have with the the city park and commercial business west. It's connecting to Vancouver. It took some time. He has to come around, to be honest, Aster, that's gonna be development driven with, the large hillside that's on the east that the Noble family owns. It's not if, but when. And then the yellow house on the corner when the hills kinda come through. So, yeah, there is that gap still, and, you know, people do take risks by walking in the middle of that road.

Yeah. Going back to downtown. My my my pet project, trees, requiring tree grates is ADA compliant, but also girdles of trees and expensive to maintain, has to be monitored. They have to be removed over time. There are some inexpensive options that rates certain like a resin fill.

There's

a couple options. I'd I'd love to see grates not required. In fact, just scourge as much as possible. Grates are great and great skill. I work in Portland, we're digging up trees that were girdled, and people forgot to check on them. The adjacent property owner who's responsible to pull down this thing for their removal, not the cities. It's just easier not to put them in the first place.

I think Brian wanted to

I just wanted to take a crack at it if I can really quickly. Sorry. You know, I think I think, you you know, like, the center and the edges, think from a place based perspective. Right? Downtown is is the center. It's extremely nuanced. As you go out, this helps you all build that framework kind of, like, over time very slowly. As as was mentioned, it takes a long time to get there. So I think that the reason the purpose or part of the reason why these design overlays is to slowly build those little centers that, like, maybe someone and I don't know the name of the community. They live further up north there, further over there to the west, and it's like they don't have a place to go.

Well, eventually, there will be. Slowly, there becomes all these little centers that creates value, and then more people wanna be there. And so it gives that option. I think that's one thing it does, and it does that slowly, to your point, really slowly over time. The second thing I think it does is you begin to look at your transportation network and your transit network. It becomes those centers that are stops. Right? That that's really what the second thing you're doing at the same time. I mean, the Northwest has a very rich history of land use and transportation. Right? And so it's kind of like you're looking out at how you're gonna be building the node in, like, twenty something years. Right? That's really what it starts to do. I don't know if that's helping.

Because these are twenty year plans. We didn't provide that context. I mean, as as well at the beginning, these plans are the comp plan and the downtown plan have a twenty year planning horizon. So these things are setting the framework for what we imagine to be the case in twenty years.

And it's hard to see them today being there to to your your point, I think. I agree.

Anything else? Take a crack at it.

Yeah. Thanks. Thank

you for the presentation.

Thank you.

Or just just having it back in front of us

again. Yeah.

Alright. Next on the agenda, we have miscellaneous updates. Robert, anything for us?

Yeah. We'll, be coming to the planning commission next month for some annexation discussions. It's we had one last night. It's a single lot. It's not super exciting, but, nonetheless, we'll we'll go through that effort.

But wanted to also let the planning commission know that, the city attorney David Schultz has officially stepped down for some personal health reasons. McPherson, our city attorney, will be they're doing a seventy five year anniversary, event, serving the community, and I I think there's gonna be a recognition. We'll we'll provide the commission with more information on that because he's served the community very well over all the years I've worked with him here, and, so he'll be a mess. Yeah. Well, at least there's a lot more coming on the planning commission, other things for all things company's plan and design standard parking and all that good stuff. So

Do you foresee that through the summer will be meetings, or do you think as well?

I think Alan wants the pain and suffering of a bunch of meetings. No. I think we we need to. We have we have deadlines that we have to meet by, October. We you know, I I do appreciate all the heavy lifting that offer steering committees and advisory committees with them, the planning commission, city council. I think there's just about every single meeting that's a element of our comprehensive planning update or sub area planning, and there's a lot to it. So, it's, it'll be exciting to kinda get towards, wrapping it up, but, yeah, it'll be busy. So understanding it's summertime, people are gonna be traveling and stuff or moving kids to college and all that good stuff. Exactly.

If you do know you're traveling, get on this meeting. K. Heads up ahead of time is good so we can make sure we have a a quorum.

Yep. Carrie will be back next week. So she and she's been very good about make reaching out ahead of time to make sure there's availability.

Alright. Looks like the next meeting is on Tuesday, June 16. And with that, we will close the meeting at 08:25. You ready?