Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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[Music] Planning Commission meeting for Wednesday, September 24th, 2025. And our first order of business is the approval of the September 10 minutes. Everybody had a chance to look them over.

Any changes? Any motion? Motion to approve. All right. Second. All right. All in favor say I.

I. All opposed. Okay. Now, we're going to be hearing petitions open to public comment. Petitioners or the representatives will be given 10 minutes to present their petition. Subsequent individual citizens wishing to speak will be allowed a maximum of 3 minutes each and representatives of an opposition group will be allowed a maximum of 10 minutes. At the end of the public hearing, there will be an allowance of three minutes for rebuttals. Our next order of business is a public hearing on the petition of Dantis Properties LLC for a conditional use permit on an I2 light industrial district to allow the use of an existing structure as an athletic club for pickle ball at 3200 Carroll Avenue. Present

members of planning commission properties has submitted a petition for conditional use permit to allow the use of an existing structure as an athletic club for pickle ball in an I2 light industrial district at 3200 Carroll Avenue. The subject property was annexed into the city in 1958 and the existing I2 light industrial district zoning was established in 1978. In this district, athletic clubs and recreational sports facilities are permitted upon approval of a cup by council. The comprehensive plan future land use map recommends an employment to use for the subject property. The property is bound by a mix of residential and commercial uses, but the immediate surrounding area is zoned industrial. The subject property consists of approximately 1 and 2100 acres at and contains a one-story steel frame structure constructed in 2025. The structure is approximately 6,600 ft in size and the petitioner is proposing to house the pickle ball club in this building. The club would be a tenant buildout with two full-size courts, one practice court, locker rooms, bathrooms, and a lounge area. An additional 7,500 ft structure has been permitted for construction adjacent to the subject structure. The use of the existing structure as a pickleball club should have limited impact on the surrounding area. The club will only use a portion of the subject property, and the adjacent structure may still be used as industrial space. The club will be a tenant buildout and the subject structure could be converted back to industrial space as needed. The technical review committee reviewed the petition on August 19th and comments were minor in nature. The planning division recommends approval of the CU petition.

Thank you. And who's here to speak on behalf of the petition? If you could please come forward, state your name, sign in, and tell us a little bit more about it.

Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of commission. My name is Noran Walton. My name is Perkins Orrison. Um, and I'll keep this brief. Um, uh, Perkins Orson did do a site plan for this facility, um, just a few years ago, as Eve mentioned. Uh it's under construction now. Um uh the the property was originally intended to be warehouse space as which the original site plan shows, but through marketing it became evident that there was a need for an athletic facility. We all know how popular pickle ball has become as of late. And so this opportunity arose to provide a pickle ball an indoor pickle ball facility here. Um a as we have it now um the use of the picklevall facility will not have any modifications to the site plan except for a reorganization of parking and maybe some landscaping to end cap new parking areas and that and of such it won't uh change any of the water demands or the sewer demands. The impervious area is going to stay the same. So the storm water management facility that's built with the original site plan will remain the same as well. U Mr. Tim Dantis with Dantis Properties is here as am I and we'll be more than happy to entertain any questions that you may have.

Great. Thank you. Is anybody here to speak in favor of the petition? You normally you might want to stay for a moment. Okay. Sure. Would you like to speak? No. Okay. And anybody here speak in opposition? Okay. Um if you could please come forward and you'll take a seat and we'll call you back up for questions.

So please uh sign in. There's a sign in form and then state your name. Uh, my name is Todd Hall. I own the property at 3235 Mayflower Drive. I think I gave that correct number. I apologize for my notes being a little crude, but uh I didn't have much time to prepare. Uh, but I'm opposed to the use of this building as a pickle ball court. The location and placement of this steel building has already reduced the values of the homes next to it. Use of the building as a pickle ball court is only going to reduce the values further. One of the reasons I'm opposing the use of this as a pickle ball court. Nothing in the packet is saying where and what kind of lighting is going in. Bad lighting locations and poorly designed lighting can spill over into the neighboring homes and can cause glare affecting the homes at night. Another reason, pickle ball is surprisingly loud. Since this is a residential area, the residents are going to be sleeping at night in order to work the next day. Increased noise is going to adverse adversely affect the quality of life here. According to the original Smittle, this place is going to be open 24/7. This means traffic late at night, players shouting and yelling during play, and all contributing to the increased noise. I had some pics here to kind of show you to give you a better understanding, but uh according to the ladies here, I can't present them to you because I didn't get them get them to you earlier. I respectfully request the planning committee to reconsider the approval of

this project until a more comprehensive review is conducted such as a noise impact study, a traffic study. Three, submittal of how the tenant is going to tailor the interior space for the operational requirements and the aesthetics to maintain the quality of life of the residents. Four, a lighting study. Thank you for your attention this matter and I trust the committee will act in the best interest of the community. Thank you.

Thank you. And seeing no one else in here, have there been any emails or voicemails about this? Okay. All right. Well, we will um and u Mr. Walton, if you might want to come forward and address those questions. Um, thank you for the opportunity for rebuttal. Uh, the the um noise factor um I think will be negated because all of these courts are indoors. Um the way it's going to be administered or or ran is there will be uh scheduled times for um uh uh the usage of the court. So it's it's it's not a first come first serve basis. It'll be a or organized you know um call in and and and reserve the courts for use. We don't expect you know dozens of people to be here at the same time. It should be uh four people on each court and then there's one practice court which would have two people. So that would be you know 10 or so people at the facility at any given time. And I was looking through the site plan and I apologize I don't have this ready. Um and I and I don't think that we I don't think we had outdoor lighting on the original site plan. Um but if outdoor lighting is installed, of course, it will have to meet uh the shielding requirements of the city code u to not have more than a half a foot candle across any property line or the rightway line. So uh uh the city code does protect for um glare distribution across the property lines. If you have

any more questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them. Great. Thank you. Okay, at this point the public hearing's closed and we can address any questions to staff or to the petitioner. Yeah. Got a couple things. When when this was you say this was originally floor planned as a warehouse. Is that right? Yeah. Who is that correct? Yeah, Mr. Walton. Sorry. Thank you. Uh the floor plan for this I mean the proposal for this originally was a warehouse. Is that is that right? Yes.

Uh uh Rachel, was there anything Do you know do you know much about this? Because I don't I I can't access it on my thing here. Was there lighting originally proposed? I mean I would think there'd be some kind of lighting proposed for a warehouse. I can't speak to the site plan at this point. I don't know if you're I'm trying to up Yeah. So, I mean, I guess the underlying question is, would it be any different? Likely no. Um, the industrial district standards are in play no matter what use um go what uses go into the building. So, warehouse or pickle ball, it's going to have those probably same or similar lighting arrangement right

there. Okay. Well, and lighting has come up before with us and I know that I I I it's not clear to me exactly. I think the city has a pretty good plan in place for reducing lighting. Um I never know for sure whether that means you can still have a a bulb sticking up or whether it actually does have a a true shield over it so it's pointing down at the parking lot. Um but if And I don't know what that means in terms of expense, but if if the neighborhood is concerned about the lighting, there are certainly different levels or standards to address that.

And just to be clear, this building we're seeing here, that's not actually the pickle ball. That is the building that was constructed that they're proposing to use. The the building that's not the warehouse from the street. That's originally a warehouse. But I'm sorry, I'm just looking at this here. Yeah, I think it was originally planned as a warehouse and this one's under construction. It's incomplete, right? Correct. The site is So, so the image that's there, the building that's erected is the building that's in question and then you can see a foundation nearer in the image which is the second warehouse which is the more rectangular building in the site plan that's on the left of the screen.

Gotcha. And this uh I was tardy coming to the meeting. Is this uh does this have operational hours or is it 24/7? Mr. Dantis, can you answer that? Yeah, if you please state your name. Okay. Sign on that form as well. All right. Of the public record.

Okay. Tim Dantis. Um, initially this was going to be a 24/7 kind of like a 24-hour fitness kind of thing where members can come in with a key fob. Um, so no no employees, they just kind of come in everything monitor electronically, but we don't think people are going to be playing pickle ball, you know, at one in the morning. I could be surprised, you know, but that's um if there is a some form of restriction after some hours, you know, that that that wouldn't be an issue either.

Will the building be when you're finished with it? I I assume this is a four season building. Some warehouses are simply metal buildings. This this one I do I assume correctly. It's going to be insulated. The the building is already insulated. So, it's it's got insulation. There's some sound, no sound, no uh installation. And in across the street, we have buildings that we've already put up that a lot of other business have come in and I actually rent one of the units next to it uh ourselves and you really can hear it. Like Paul Davis and Merit Restoration, a lot of these other business are in there and you really can hear. Um,

how far away are these is this building from uh uh it's across but but what I what the the thing was the insulation works well like that's that's my that was my point. We we have an office next door that you can't really hear anything that's going on inside those buildings. That was planning commission. I would offer that well I do understand the the concerns about noise. There are probably many uses that could go in this building by right that would be far far noisier than the pickle ball.

Yeah, I think uh you know one of the things that you know Mr. Hall's concern like the value um and the lighting you know we can't really answer the value. I'm I'm looking at this larger plan. It looks like a really large area of property that's encompasses the the work district that's, you know, covering a lot of area that had homes. I know down on um down on Clover there were homes down there. Um so there's sometimes there's change in zoning has been there. So it's kind of a buy right thing. But the lighting I do think is a a a valid question. I think that's important. Um, but I think I think

yeah, hear more about city city recommendations on parking lot lighting. I can't imagine. Am I allowed to say I'm allowed?

So the the buildings when we put these up, they have wall packs in front of in front of those doors that will eliminate out in front of all of that. Uh, in front of the pickle ball club, it's all woods. So there's nothing um the properties are behind the building uh as you can see right over there. So there's no houses that are going to be eliminating um toward towards it. I if you're if you're able to email those, we could forward those to the commission, but um we are not allowed to put a thumb drive in this computer because of IT security risks and I'm sorry for that. the the neighbor right next to us, that small house to the southwest part, which is in front of that Old Dominion truck. I mean, Old Dominion has big spot lights pointing everywhere cuz they and they run 247 and we've gone to both neighbors. The one um right in front um Mr. uh Charlie right there on both sides of the property at the entrance of the pickle ball club and we've talked to them and just to make sure before we even did anything we were trying to be um you know respectful to the two neighbors that are right next to us who would be affected the most and both of them um actually Wade was even wants to join you know once it's set up so you know so that's kind of the Um,

when you compare the op the alternative uses, if I lived in that neighborhood, I would prefer some sort of fitness center over just about anything else that could go in there, especially a trucking. I mean, you got like two trucking companies. Yeah, it looks like across the street from this thing. And whatever that third industrial thing is, I don't know what that is. I mean, it's it's three courts, so that's a maximum of 12 people. at one time. It's not going to be a lot of traffic. So, excuse me. If if we we can call you back up, but

yeah. So, I I guess I don't I mean, to me, it's it's a it's more appealing than the other options. Are those are those two trucking companies right there? Those two large Yes, sir.

to the left. So, you got trucks coming that in and out of there pretty regularly. Well, they they run 24/7 because I've been there pretty late. Those trucks, you know, they don't stop, right? Like go they're all over the road. That's Old Dominion, which is, you know, nationwide. The two small like white building, smaller white buildings on right on the north of the screen there. Those are other buildings that we've built, same style industrial flex warehouse space. And those are, you know, Merit Restoration, United Health, uh there's actually a mechanic on one of them to just store his tools, and then um uh Paul Davis, who's also like a restoration company. A lot of those actually are excite they're excited because during the day they have a place that they can. So, it's almost been forming a community of all of these small business that we we've been able to develop. you know, we we have another like 25 acres around that we've been buying that it's going to be more industrial space to bring in small business and then so this would give them a you know like you said something for during the day they can

so so to me Paul just a frank question and and in all honesty because I want to get your take on this do you really feel like a pickle ball court is going to be noisier than those two trucking companies and that other building across the street. As I said in my presentation, I'm opposed to it until something is put right in regarding the lighting and the noise.

I mean, you're looking for like a decel level guarantee. Well, nothing is being said about if the lighting in the parking lot that they propose ball court is going to be showing in the making. That photograph doesn't do do the location justice. It always looks different on the ground. The seal building, excuse me, pardon. It's not up here. It's back here. And my photograph showed where where all that is. And it's It's not a pleasant sight. Okay. The homeowner right there next to it, he's already put this place up. So,

yeah. I'm just trying to give you an opportunity to explain because obviously you have a reason why you think it's going to be noisier or be as noisy as. So, so I'd like to direct a question staff about about zoning conditional use permits. My understanding is let's say the pickle ball court it it goes and then after a couple years Mr. Dantis decides to close it down. At that point, any industrial use can be considered a cement. Finley can move in there. Any any any kind of That one may be closer to I3. Okay. I would have to verify the order. What are the I What are the I2 machine shops? Machine shops probably. Yeah.

Could you kind of quickly go over a couple of the heavier heavier things in I2? heavy auto repair, lumber yard and building materials. Um commercial industrial or consumer machinery and equipment. Um services to buildings and dwellings. Um you know food and beverages, tobac tobacco manufacturing, textiles, um wood products, paper and printing materials, furniture and related products, chemicals, plastic and rubber products, non- metallic mineral products, primary metal manufacturing, transportation equipment manufacturer, machinery, electrical equipment, appliance and components manufacturing, transportation equipment and automobiles. um blacksmith, wholesale, wholesale trade establishment, office and warehousing, warehousing, air transportation, rail passenger. Of course, not all of these are going to fit over track.

Yeah. Okay. So, I I think I mean I think what we have is we have this situation where this is all I2 land, right? And I have been by the building and spent some time looking at it and it seems to me that the entrances are facing away from your property. Uh, so the lighting is there lighting along the back of the building? There is not. And the and the lighting is covered on the front. It has an overhang, right?

Correct. They're um they're designed to eliminate the entrances in and the parking lot. And just one more thing to address the um the traffic. You know, it's it's going to be a membership base. So, it's a limited. going to be open where you can have 50 people show up and they're waiting around to try to get a court. It's a limited membership. Also, because we're trying to build it to where it's when you reserve the the court online, you show up and the courts, you know, it's it's available. So, we're not expecting any more than 100 to 125 members and that's it. Um, so very limited membership kind of almost like a golf club, you know, or uh kind of style. So,

so did I understand correctly that you have lighting there on the site now? It's attached to the building somehow or how uh it it's it's wired. We are not connected to to the uh to AP has not come in and connected yet. Okay. So, the the lights aren't still under it's still under construction. So, so we finished the the from that picture that building is done. The actual all of the the where you see the stubouts for the rough ends on the bathrooms on the slab on the right side of the picture. Correct. That whole building is completed already. Okay.

So, Columbia G, you know, we we've had some utilities that are running some stuff there this week and last week. Um, but the wall packs that go on the building, it's more to eliminate downward and out just a certain Okay. You know, cuz that that that was one of the concerns on the building. Yeah. Across the street that we put up and it hasn't been, you know, it's actually everything is illuminating away from um, you know, really like u Mr. Archie's house who was the one house like right there. So, so that that lighting was that approved in the site plan? It was. Yes,

it was. Okay. So, so that's that's acceptable. I mean, that that lighting is acceptable then. Is that correct? Is that um if it was installed the way it was shown on the plan, then yes, it should meet the ordinance. Um in the event that things are not installed the way it's specified on a plan, uh we operate on a complaint basis. Sure. So, if there were more light trespass than is supposed to be allowed, um the zoning administrator has a a device that measures it at the property line that we can go out and verify if we believe something may be out of regulation.

Okay. And is there is there uh I guess I mean is there anything to deviate from what's on the site plan for the lighting? Is it do No. Yeah. Whatever was turned into contractors is Okay. Pretty much. All right. So, so if I I see in the parking I see some um little bumpouts, uh if you were to come in there and for example put some light poles with parking lot lighting that would illuminate the front of that building, um that wouldn't be acceptable in this that's not part of the site plan because that would be a light issue, right? That would be facing that building and going around the sides of it. Um you don't have any parking lot lighting in that. Correct. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. in any new I guess and just to kind of follow on with that any new lighting would be a change to the site plan and would have to go through uh TRC approval would consider it yeah an amendment to the site plan. Okay. I mean, I I think if this was a outdoor pickle ball courts with flood lights and the noise, we'd have be having a whole different conversation. Mhm.

But the fact that they're indoors, there's no lighting going up in the parking lots. And to me, it's still a smaller impact across the board than something else. And we and we don't want to fall into that trap of that argument. By right, could be worse. But in this case, it seems like a legitimate consideration. Um, I I would I would support the petition.

I agree. I would say it's not only not a liability if I had this coming into my neighborhood. I don't I don't play pickle ball, but I know a lot of people who do and and I'm sure like people like Mr. Hall would disagree, but I would consider it a positive. You know, it's nice to have something, you know, close by, you know, like that. Uh, Crunch Fitness, I think, went in recently. it's closer and planet fitness, you know, but but not everybody does those sorts of things. So, I I it seems to me to be a positive addition. So, that's that's where I'm going to land on it. So,

I I would agree. I I absolutely um hear your concerns related to the potential impact, but based off of everything that I'm hearing, this sounds like a great opportunity for this um this community. And I know that's subjective, but um I would also be in support.

Any other comments or a motion? I I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second. Okay. Any comments for a vote? All right. All in favor of the petition say I. I. All opposed? Say no. Haven't heard any. It's unanimous. But of course, this has to go to city council. So, you know, you have information you want to pass on, please make sure you get that to city council. And then, uh, good luck for you all there. Good luck. Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right. Our next item, we're going to hear the consideration of naming a new private road at 1700 Enterprise Drive as Waters Edge Circle. We're going to have a vote on this, and I wanted to clarify something. Uh we have two name changes. One is for a private road and one is obviously for public inventory and the one that's for public we just comment on and the one that's private we vote on. Why would we vote on that? Is that cuz they get to use the name and we're letting them use the name?

No, it's because it's not within a subdivision so it doesn't fall under the subdivision ordinance. Um so if it is in a subdivision, you have the opportunity to comment, but ultimately it's accepted with the plat by the city manager's office. Okay. All right. So, is there any presentation on this?

Um, just a really brief one. Um, Virginia Baptist Homes is petitioning to name a new street as Waters Edge Circle. The Summit Retirement Community is constructing the street to serve nine new hybrid homes. The new street will be private and will be accessed off of Grand Summit Drive, an existing private street. The technical review committee reviewed the petition on September 3rd and had no comments of concern. Again, this is brought before you for a vote because it is not within a subdivision. Great. And what what is a hybrid home? I mean, I think I have a I I think I have a I have an inkling, but people should know.

I believe it's um you know, individuals live there, but they also have people coming in to help care for them. Um so, it's kind of a hybrid of independent. Yeah. Okay. Yep. There's a lot of construction right down there. Any any comments or anybody want to make a motion to go on ahead and accept this? I'll make a motion to go ahead and accept. Second. Okay. All right. Um make we're going to vote on whether to accept the name. Motion's been accepted. All in favor? I I.

All opposed? No. All right. We've got that one. And then the last thing we have is the consideration of naming a street in the stables on coffee subdivision as Arabian Drive. And this is just open for comments because it's already been put out in in the plat. Right.

Yes. Correct. So Coffee Road is petitioning to name a new street as Arabian Drive. The public street will be located in the stables on coffee subdivision. Only a small portion of the subdivision and street will be located within city limits and will be located off of Hawkins Mill Road. The technical review committee reviewed the petition on September 3rd and had no comments of concern. It is now brought before you for comment. So that little red cir or red tri shapes are hard. That little red rectangle is the part that will be in the city, right? Yeah. But Rinsson County. Yeah. Yeah. So, if we don't do this, then we can force them to name it two different names. No, I don't think that's how that would work.

What would you name it, Chuck? Uh, Gammon cord. I think sounds good. I think that would be a logical choice in this case. Yeah, we can't use gammon cord. I'll just start with the Arabian. Charles way. Any concerns over Arabian drive? sound. It's funny. It reminds me a little bit of the uh commercial development over where Kohl's is where just a portion is in the city and the rest is in the county runway. Thompson. Yeah.

But you asked if there would be any concerns. What would be the framework for thinking around that? just uh the only I mean when we're reviewing it as staff we're saying is is there anything too similar that may cause confusion when people you know try to dial into 911 and causes confusion over where to send the services if it sounds too similar to something else. Is there another No, I feel like we had we've had one before though that we had for comment that had a a similar similar name was bounced around. Yeah, we've had them one's been court and one's been street and it's it is confusing.

Well, and curiously, how does the name how is it how is it prop like who who comes up with it? Generally, the developer of the subdivision, the property, I think they're going with a a horse theme here. Arabian is a type of a type of horse by the name by that rural area and the family actually lives on the streets. Okay, gotcha. It's very helpful. Great. Okay. Well, we don't need to vote on that. So, you heard our comment. Um, anything anything that vote on vote on Gammon Court?

Any any um I would I would point out I think it's really interesting what's happened in the news the last couple weeks, you know, have this big data center proposal in Campbell County now up at the top of English Tavern. Really pretty area and you know, there's a lot of the communities in up in arms about it. So, I think that that it's crazy. That was like a week after our meeting and that came up and it's kind of been I think going on but under the under the radar. I think we're posting two or three. Yeah, I think I think there's there's some things going on that and I think that's we're trying to avoid is letting things slide under the radar before it gets sprung on us. So, right. So, we're we're still moving forward with that.

We I I'm not sure what meeting we'll plan to bring that to you. Uh but we are we are pursuing that. Yes. Very good. All right. Well, any other business? Um, I'll just say that uh Central Virginia Planning District Commission is holding a multimodal transportation meeting at Miller Center this evening. It goes on till 6:30 if anyone would like to um as a commissioner uh multimodal transportation. But I mean, is it anything is it a general discussion of these types of options that could be employed in a potential plan or is it dealing with a specific proposal?

It's not a specific proposal. It's a a city-wide look at multimotal transportation um at Miller Center this evening till 6:30 and and it's for like people transportation, uh freight transportation, any anything uh generally movement of people, cars, bikes, sidewalks. Yeah. Okay. trolley, street car. I won't say anything's off the table. Yeah, really. I'll make a motion to journ. Okay. Second. All right. Anybody opposed? All right. Thank you. Let's go. Thank you. I did that for specific reason.