Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

Good morning everybody. Welcome to the first meeting from 2026. I hereby call to order the January 9th, 2026 public hearing of the City of Prescuit Preservation Commission. Members present. Rick Henry, James President,

James Macccarver, Bob John, Rob Johnson, sorry, Mike King, Diane Travis, and myself, Rick Spring, the chair. Alex Brimlette, planning manager. Tammy's not here. Jacob Lund, assistant planner. Susan Susanna Bond, our recording secretary. And that's about it. This is an open hearing and is being recorded by the city. The proceedings are being televised by representatives of the public media, local cable and/or radio stations that may be rebroadcast. The number commission's present is six and we require majority votes to pass a motion. All parties wishing to be heard will be expected to state their name for the record. Speak loudly and close to the microphone on the podium there. And please everybody turn your electronic devices off or down. Thank you. Next up is approve the minutes for the November 14, 2025 meeting. Does anybody have any comments

or a motion? Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair, Diane Travis, I move to approve the November 14th, 2025 preservation commission meeting minutes. Mr. Chairman, Mike King. I second that motion. All in favor say I. I. We. Motion carries. It takes us to B HP25009 and Jacob.

All right. Good morning, chair, vice chair, and commissioners. Uh my name is Jacob Lond, assistant planner for the city of Prescuit. Uh today I will be presenting HP25-00009. This is for a new detached garage and workshop located at 230 South Mount Vernon Avenue. A little information on the historic district. So, this is located in the Southeast Prescuit local historic preservation district. Uh most comparable with the historic master plan for the East Prescat district. The Southeast Prescuit doesn't have a chapter of its own currently, so it is included in the East Prescuit district. Uh that was approved by ordinance 3433 and adopted in 1995. Um, this is also located in the East Prescat National Historic District, but the property is a non-contributor and it's no longer listed on the National Register of Historic Places uh due to some sub substantial changes to the sighting material of the primary residence. Uh, so the applicant is proposing to construct a detached garage with a workshop. Uh the square footage for the garage is approximately 602 square feet with the workshop being 304 square feet. It will all be one building. It won't be two separate buildings. Uh the roof's going to be constructed as a gableon hip form with architectural grade shingles which will match the existing roof pitch on the primary residence and the existing roofing material for the primary residence. Uh they are proposing two sliding windows, one on the north and south facads of the garage. Uh you won't be able to see them from the front view facing from South Mount Vernon or the

alley in the rear. Uh there will be one rollup garage door that face west towards the alley and the siding will match the existing lap siding from the primary residence which was approved within a addition remodel and guest house that was approved in 2014 by the preservation commission. These are some photos. The first one shows what the house looked like before the remodel that was approved in 2014. As you can see, the sighting has significantly changed. Uh the fence was also removed, so that fence is no longer there. Uh the photo, the second photo shows the property as it sits today if you were facing from South Mount Vernon Avenue. These are some additional photos. So, the first one is the street view from South Mount Vernon. The second one shows you the guest house that was approved in the rear of the property along the alley. And then this photo here shows I believe this was the addition that was part of the 2014 approval. And then back here is actually where you'll see the front facade of the garage from Mount Vernon. And then the last photo just shows the location from the alley view if you were on the rear of the property. Uh I included these just because I think it gives a good reference as to materials they're going to be using since they will be matching the siding of the existing residence and the roofing material and roof pitch. This is a site plan provided by the applicant. It does show the existing residence, uh the existing guest house in the rear and the proposed garage and workshop location. Uh this is located in a SF9 zoning district where the setbacks

are 25 ft front and rear, 7 ft on the sides. Um with detached garages, the rear setback can be reduced per the land development code to four feet. uh except when the garage door opens towards the alley, then it has to be a minimum of six feet, which they do show here. Uh the rear setback to the garage door will be 6 ft. So, this does meet all of our land development code for setback purposes. These are some elevations provided by the applicant. So the first one is the front elevation which you would see from Mount Vernon Avenue. Uh the bottom one is the left elevation if you are facing north on the property. Uh there are notes on these elevations that show the maximum height at 14 ft 11 in. Uh siding to match the existing residence. Same with the trim material and the roofing pitch will also match the existing primary residence. These are additional elevations. So, this will be the rear, what you'll see from the alleyway. And then this would be the right elevation if you're facing south. Again, the right and left elevations won't be visible from street view. For compatibility review, staff did review this with the Prescuit Preservation Master Plan for the East Historic District. Uh these were the guidelines that we reviewed it against. It does meet all of these guidelines except for the encouragement of double hung windows. Um they're proposing sliding windows and they're horizontally oriented. Uh additionally, staff did uh send this out to a third party review, Courtney Mooney with Broadbent and Associates. Uh there's a full

analysis from her in your agenda packet. Uh but the project was reviewed against city ordinances, secretary of the interior standards and the national park services guidelines for new construction. It was determined that the project meets all ordinance guidelines except for the proposed windows and it's in compliance with standard 9 and 10 of the secretary of the interior standards. So this was determined to be subordinate and compatible with the historic district and it will not negatively impact the integrity of the historic district. That brings us to our recommended action. Uh staff recommends to move to approve or deny HP25-009 for construction of a new detached garage and workshop. And that concludes my presentation. I'm available for questions and the applicants here if you'd like to hear anything from them as well.

Any questions from the commission? I apologize for my for my voice. I'm recovering from laryngitis. Chim macarver just had a couple questions for the builder. Uh the uh on the plan builder to come up, listen,

the was indicated that the air condition air conditioning unit was going to be relocated. Where is that going to be relocated to? My name's Aaron Risley. I'm the draftsman. Uh, honestly, that's to be determined until we talk to the mechanical people. We don't know. We want it to be still in a good location, but I think I've got to be determined on my site plan. If you can pull that up, please.

You're not going to put it on the east east side of the of the uh uh shop or anything where it could be seen from the street. No, I um I'm not sure. I'd still like to keep it within location uh within that general location, but again, until we talk to the mechanical people, I don't we haven't gotten that far yet. We haven't divorced before we proceed. One of the requirements for the overhang for the roof is 12 to 24 in. How long is what's the overhang on the roof

right now? The existing house has 12 in and I believe the guest house is the same. So that's what we want to tie in and have everything match as well. I'm reviewing what it was done before with uh there was a approval for a a uh woodpet fence across the front and it never was completed. Any plans for that for that in the future? I don't believe so. This is uh my client is the new owner of the property. So that may have been the previous owner. I I I I think it probably was. Yeah.

Uh, no awnings on the door or any of the windows or doors? Awnings? No. Not that I'm aware of. We haven't discussed awnings. No, sir. Skylights. Skylights? No, sir. None.

And then I have some concerns about the horizontal windows. Uh the plans the East Prescuit Historic District master plan talks about they recommend uh vertically oriented windows and uh Broadbent did mention that but they sort of glossed over the fact that it's they just sort of glossed over it and they felt the comment was since it's north and south facing that it's not going to be seen from the street and so no big deal. My feeling is that when you buy a house in a historic district that you're buying into the master plans that uh uh are published also [clears throat] and uh should stick with that. I would recommend vertically oriented windows.

So uh two comments on that. Um one uh because that is the shop area. So we've got a bunch of tools, he's got his equipment, and that's why he wanted the higher windows. also possibly workbenches. Uh, number two, the house directly to the north of my client has the exact same high windows and then two houses to the south has high windows and they're both on the sides, not the front. And I gave those pictures to Jake. So, for whatever that's worth, I'm hoping that helps the cause basically because they've got it. Two houses, you know, right next door. In my opinion, they should be playing by the same rules, but I didn't approve their their construction. I get that.

Well, my name is You can still still stay there. Thank you very much. My name is Michael King. I'm just a member here. Um I I I'll go to the first first concern I had. I didn't know the the uh I've been at the site two times. What? yesterday is walked walked the alley. I stood on the plat on the cement uh pad there. That's about the size of the garage. Is it not the existing cement pad? Can you Jake, can you pull up the site plan, please? If you take a look at the site plan, we've got there's an existing Jake, is there any way you can window in on that on that garage pad area? I can't zoom. This is about You can't zoom.

So, there's an existing vertical wall. Did you see? So, if you look uh the garage on the site plan, the garage extends about four and a half, five feet beyond that and then the shop beyond that. I also wanted to point out uh Jake got the dimension of we're roughly 125 ft from the street to the front of the shop wall distance-wise. So, I'm hoping that helps.

Well, thank you. I just, you know, just standing there and I didn't didn't do 100% staff work on that. that 6 ft uh is going to push push the garage forward. So, you'd have to move the slab a little closer. Correct. Yeah, that's all. I'm just trying to understand. I don't have a concern about it. It's just a matter of that the slab that's there in the bottom right will extend about 3 or 4 feet up and then you'll you'll Yeah, it's about 5t. Okay. Thank Okay. Thank you for that.

Um going back to the windows if that's a concern. Like I say, I've been I was on the site, walked up and down the alley. I saw the same things you see. The windows, for the most part, 90% of the windows, if not more, are horizontal. Um, [clears throat] and various uh some of them are garages, some of them are even the guest home there, the window on the back is uh pretty much the same as what you have on your garage there as well. Thank you for uh secondly is uh the two the two homes well this garage will occupy pretty much the site between the guest house and the property to the

to the north north right correct and there's an existing building there and there's also a fence there correct on both sides of this property you can't hardly see the windows you have to really look hard to see the windows from any position on the alley or in the adjacent properties. You can't I'm sorry to interject. Uh there's also all those existing trees and shrubs.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't see it. The building shrubs, the fences, the other existing buildings. So the the visual intrusion does not exist. And when you do this kind of analysis uh from street view that is what we are to protect the streetscape. You can't see the windows from the street. You mentioned the distance but you just can't see those sides from the street. Correct.

So the building the whole property itself is nonconforming. So, and we I would [clears throat] like to hear from the city as to the acceptability. Yes, Mr. uh my co my my co colleague here says recommended the word is emphasize emphasize those kinds of windows and uh again that's in the ordinance. I've got a copy of the ordinance right here and the guidelines. So it's not mandatory emphasize windows that are you know as if you if that building stood out that everybody could see it fine from the street but they can't they can't see the windows. That's not a uh what do we say? It's not in non-conformance so to speak with historical guidelines for street cape streetcape views for property protection and visuals. I would like to have uh Miss Brand Alex to address the city's position on this. It's in the staff report that we accept the windows the way they are and we would approve them.

Yeah. I mean, uh, from a city standpoint, we don't have an issue with the windows, especially like you mentioned, it is a non-contributing property, uh, to the district. Uh, but that's what we're here to determine whether you guys are okay with the whole design in its entirety. I'm sure if you wanted the windows changed, that could be something they may be [snorts] interested in doing as well. Can I make a comment? Reading directly from the the uh master plan. The vertical window design is subtle is a subtle pattern that adds continuity and rhythm to the neighborhood. This pattern should be maintained and horizontal and sliding windows should be discouraged. Oh

yeah, go ahead. Should is not shall my my rebuttal. If I if I may jump in here, thank you. Alex Braramlet, planning manager. I think that the the main point is it is looking from Mount Vernon Street. So that that's the main scape we're trying to preserve. You know, it kind of goes similar to interior remodels of historic buildings. That's not in our realm. We're looking at that main street and and applying it to that facade. So in terms of the horizontal sighting, it is on the sides. We did not deem that to be out of compliance because it's not seen from the Mount Vernon streetscape. Thank you, Rob.

Yeah, thank you, Rob Johnson. Just um for my own edification, I guess, is there is there a square foot per property um you know, structure versus land uh with the city? There is a maximum lot coverage allowance. um until the permit comes in and we know exactly how big this is going to be. I did quick calculations and this the primary residence and the guest house will fall within the maximum lot coverage allowance for structures that's including the new additions that would be including the garage and workshop workshop. Yes,

that was one of the first things well one of several first things that we discussed to make sure that would be compliant. Thank you. It's it's very close. It's going to be within probably 50 to 100 ft of their maximum lock coverage allowance. So it it is very close. Any other questions? [clears throat] Somebody want to make a motion?

Diane Travis. I move to approve HP25-00009. As written. As written,

Mr. Chairman. Uh, I second that motion and would like to explain my voting. All right. [clears throat] Excuse me. Again, I restate it's a street street view escape that we're trying to protect. The city supports that. Uh there's flexibility within the guidelines to, you know, to uh provide for that. My colleague says it's should. It's still if it's a should, it's not a shell. I've got the ordinance in front of me, but uh I've got a you have a different reference. Um it's non-conforming already. the windows are not seen from the adjacent properties or the streetscape and so uh I find that the proposal as presented is in full compliance and I will support what's been what's been said is with no adjustments

Jim right you see this is a philosoph philosophical issue you know you're right you can't be seen unless you're really looking real close. You probably could. Um, but the spirit of the of the guidelines are to uh maintain historical integrity and and obviously that hasn't been done on all the buildings but um I feel I feel that uh we need to stick by the guidelines. Any further comment? We'll take a vote. All in favor? I I I oppose. Motion carries five to one.

Thank you. And Alex has some staff updates for you. Thank you.

All right. Uh oh, sorry. Okay. So, we spoke about it at the beginning, but the applications to reapply, we sent you all whose terms are expiring. So, if you have questions, feel free to reach out to us. We're happy to help through that process and um just let us know. The other [clears throat] thing I wanted to bring up, you all had asked um the last meeting or the meeting prior uh about the update for the 402 and 410 East Goodwin, the Chris Todd property. Uh so, I just wanted to provide that update. Uh if I can get my photos here. So, we had spoken last about the existing front fence. This was kind of the last um historic preservation component. Let me get one more picture over here. They have added the um the wood sighting as was requested. They've removed the CMU caps. So, that's all been completed. They did come back and ask about this brick cap and it felt so minor I didn't want to do a full PPC review again. So I thought maybe I just try and present it here right now. Um as it is currently the the sighting is there. The caps the CMU caps are gone. So they're they're good to go. They're further just inquiring about having brick caps. So I wanted to just throw it out here for today. Maybe have um a possible discussion. See how you all feel. I can certainly have them come back through PPC, but like I said, with it just being brick caps, I thought maybe we could just talk about it. Um, so there's this image and this is kind of just another you can see the sighting. And so, uh, just to gauge kind of thoughts for this and potential feedback would be appreciated and helpful.

Yeah, Rob Johnson. Um, so what was existing there was just a flat cap if I remember. Just a concrete and a flat cap. Yep. A CMU cap that the the last meeting when we discussed this was to remove those. So those are all gone at this time. Yeah. I noticed he's got them stacked up over there. So yeah. Um and I didn't see that brick. I walk I just live around the corner from there. So it's you know I walk by it quite often. But I don't think he's installed the brick. He just put them here as a sample to give a visual of what he was looking to do.

Not having looked at the ordinance for that, is that acceptable as far as you know? I mean, brick generally is an okay material. Um, in terms of the fencing, there's, you know, not it's not specific to brick on fencing as a cap. Um, but material-wise, brick is is an acceptable material. I don't recall any place else in the city that has a brick cap. And I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. You don't? I don't know either. Um, I'm not a fan of it to tell you the truth. That's I

Okay. Yeah, I'll I'll second that uh comment. And there's no other brick on that property at all. That's the only brick that is physically on those two units. Yes. Well, I can um certainly take this feedback and just let them know and if it's something they want to pursue, we can look at a little bit more process around that. But just wanted to provide you an update. Otherwise, they're they're good to go. Um so there's that. Michael.

Well, I've heard I heard some uh dialogue here. Is there a substitute material that that that's would be something to think about? What is sub What is would it be a wooden? Would it be you know is what other things ceramic? That's the same as a brick. Actually, it's less trying to offer some suggestions about what might be acceptable. Yeah, I appreciate that. I know in my neighborhood it's a national register, not a city register. There's a lot of concrete caps.

So Rob Johnson again, I you know the what was existing on there. I'm trying to remember back why we why we denied that because it actually would look better than the brick. It would blend more. I mean, what he had there existing unless it was an overhanging, you know, piece of concrete, per se. And maybe if it was flush with the column, if I remember correctly, our issue was with it just needed to look like a capped column. Not not not capped, but a flush. Okay. not to extend beyond the you know the edges of the diameter of the column itself.

Okay. Well, we can um certainly take this back and and look further and um provide some options for them moving forward. You're not aware of any requirements from the city for these kind of caps?

No. I mean like for city code? No, we don't. We don't. It would just be the the master plan. Yeah. Okay. Uh otherwise, just from a staff update, we don't have a PPC scheduled for February. We don't have applications in at this time. So, we'll keep you posted on March. And in the meantime, um again, just for that reapplication, it is live. So, feel free to do that. Again, we're here for questions if you need anything. And I think that's all we have.

Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question, please? There's been uh, you know, a change in leadership with our with our city and uh, I was just trying to figure out if we know if you know who will be on the council that would be kind of the liaison to our historical commission. You know who that is? I offand I don't know. Mary Frederickson and anyone else? No, the the the committee reviewing and approving who's on the BCC's. Is that what you're referring to?

No, I'm I'm the the mayor has well the street talk is the mayor has designated council people to be liaison to the various commissions and boards. Jake is correct. Who is that for us? That's all. Mary Frederickson. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. No, I don't know about that committee that's going to accept, you know, go through the committee uh the board vacant board positions. I don't know who that is and I'm not asking for that. Thank you.

One more quick little thing is I happen to be downtown uh doing some chamber business and I walked over to the doc's barbecue. Uh remember we just dealt dealt with that. They they pulled the planters out which looks pretty good. They're going to extend the uh the railing fence from where the smoker is to the corner and have a little flat spot on the top for your drink, he called it. But I think it I think what we approved is going to look good. I agree with that. I I actually met with the general manager of that, both that and the fat frog on another Reason car show that we're going to put on next year. But anyway, um, and he would I told him, "Thank you for doing that cuz it completely changed that whole look down that street for the better." So

awesome. Thank you so much. And you saw the pictures of the old uh instead of the brick looks like a one by one or foot concrete or a flag stone. I can't tell. And I gave Alex a copy of it there also. All right. Any other comments?

Thank you, M.