County Board - Regular Meeting

you know that uh that is restricted or protected. Look, but don't touch for divers. I'm just going to note that Supervisor Capellian has joined us virtually. Any further questions?

I move the city board. I'll second it. Motion's been made and seconded. Is there any further questions? Chairman, I have a question. Thank you, chairman. Just a quick question. Do we know if there's any other um registered historic places that are nonlocated in Lake Michigan if there's any with based on shipwrecks and you know sunken I know I know there's some shipwrecks that off of Shabboan and Dor County that they have

that that people go out and dive. I'm not sure if they're, you know, state registered or nationally registered. Okay. Thank you. I do have a question. Supervisor Wish, even though I'm not on the committee. Um, are there going to be buoys out there? How do how are divers going to know that it's restricted?

That I don't know. I would guess it probably wouldn't be buoys. It probably be GPS location. So they really don't know if they find if they're if they come upon that. They don't really know it's registered unless they find out from the village. Well, that or the state or national. Okay. Thank you, Supervisor Spencer. So basically we just declare it able to be part of the register of historic places and then what we're supporting the this is a resolution in support of that. Okay.

Any further questions? All the question all in favor say I. Oppose. Motion carried. We are journed.

Good evening. Calling the November 3rd County Board meeting to order. If the role clerk could take the role. Uh, Supervisor Capellian is attending virtually. Supervisor Shakur um is excused but may try and uh join by WebEx. Supervisor Verant is on his way so should be here in a few moments and everyone else is here in the chambers. Okay, it's testimarily to have an opening prayer. Let's have a moment of silence.

Now the pledge.

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Item number four, public comment. Persuant to section 2-71 of the Rine County Code of Ordinances, each speaker shall be allotted a maximum of three minutes. Vice Chairman Meyer will be the timekeeper who give you a 15 30 second warning before the end. So, we've got three up here at the at the at the at the dis. Um, if anybody else wants to speak, there's forms in the back and if just give them to the supervisors and they'll bring them up here for us. So, the first is Paul Woodward. Come on, Paul. Stand up. State your name and address.

All right. Good evening, everybody. I am Paul Woodward. Address is 1455 Harmony Drive, uh, Rine, Wisconsin. So, I am the chairperson for Safewater and Mind Rine or Swimmer Rine for short. We are a nonprofit organization collaborating with a coalition of residents, city, and county officials as well as corporate partners committing to promoting water safety in all communities within Mercine County. Since we have launched, we have met with and are working with in some capacity the Rine County Sheriff's Department, Rine Police Department, Rine Fire Department, Ascension uh Ascension Hospital, school districts, water safety and educational organizations, private businesses, and a bench of amazing volunteers who are offering their skills and experience to keep our residents safe. And our network continues to grow. Our mission is to ensure that every Rine County resident has access to water safety education and that our shores and waterways are equipped to prevent loss of life. And with our mission in mind, I was disheartened to hear that cutting the funding for the lifeguards at Browns Lake was added to our county budget. Doing my due diligence, I w I watched the video from the Finance and Human Resources Committee meeting on October 29th. I wanted to hear for myself with the case that was presented to justify the cut and there were many interesting points made during the discussion. There have not been any drownings at the beach at Browns Lake was one of those points to which I ask is not the sign of a successful lifeguard program the prevention of drownings. Lifeguards perform many duties that are not as cut and dry as preventing drownings. According to the American Lifeguard Association, these duties of a professional lifeguard include enforcing the rules and regulations. Professional lifeguards must enforce the rules and regulations of their facility in order to prevent accidents and injuries. They must also be able to identify potential hazards and take steps to mitigate them.

Providing emergency care. In the event of an accident or injury, professional lifeguards must prov uh be able to provide emergency care, which includes CPR and first aid. Monitoring the patrons. Professional lifeguards must consistently monitor the patrons of their facility in order to identify potential hazards and prevent accidents. And finally, they must respond to emergencies. In the event of an emergency, professional lifeguards must be able to respond quickly and effectively. They must have a thorough understanding of their facilities emergency procedures and be able to execute them. They serve as a watchguard over our beachgoers. They enforce the rules of the beaches that they protect. Their duties are extensive. Their impact is measured by far more than no drownings at the beach.

15 seconds. Another [snorts] concerning aspect that I had uh from the amendment debate was that there was a unknown financial impact of the budget by cutting the position. No specific dollar amount was given, nor was there a savings to the taxpayer. Um, the dollar amount saved by cutting the lifeguards is $74,147, which I've been told equates to 75 savings per $250,000. Time is up. [clears throat]

Time is up. Next is Mike Frontier. Good evening again and uh want to thank the members of the county board who assisted Rick in learning about the budget. What an enormous uh challenge it is and uh we found nothing but cooperation in learn helping us learn about that from meetings with uh your county executive and your county finance chair to hope auto and several of you on phone calls. I my hope is there's some flexibility nimleness in the budget. We don't know what's coming. As we learned just this weekend, we're going to be uh SNAP is hurting and with half the funding, I'm pleased to see the county apparently is going to respond in some way. I hope we have that kind of flexibility. Uh secondly, we had a town meeting regarding uh issues in the county at Burlington last week. And one of the saddest things I I've heard in a long time, a woman who's lived in Burlington many years, said when she moved there uh from Milwaukee, she cried the whole first year because the racism she experienced. She's a white woman. Bringing biracial friends to her community was uh was traumatic, pretty naive. Uh, I can't help but think back to Sister Brenda Walsh saying the interstate divide is the biggest issue in the county and we have to ask ourselves that a racial divide something I don't know how we address this but it was profoundly sad to hear that. Secondly, there was concerns about signage and finding things in the county and u people found it interesting learn more about the budget. We encourage them to talk to you again. Thank you for your service and the uh tough decisions you have to make and being here for that.

And Bob Begley.

I'm Bob Baggley. I live at 1435 Spring Valley Drive in beautiful Rine, Wisconsin. 39y year resident of Rine County and uh like Mike, I'm a member of the um Rine Interfaith Coalition's uh education task force and I certainly have learned a lot about local government in these last three or four months. Um, one of the things we still have concerns for of course is uh how human services is paid for and the fact that human services does so much has done so much in this community and the demands on human service human services are only going to increase with the the the many catastrophic things that are happening on a national level. uh this business with SNAP. We understand that there 14,000 as I understand it kids in Rine County that are on SNAP and that's going to be cut in half now for the next month. Um there's this whole question of Medicaid and I think 20% of the people in uh Christine County are actually on Medicaid at this point. Uh they're talking about raising increases in uh the amount that people are going to pay to be members of the of the Affordable Care Act plan. One of the figures I saw said that if a 60-year-old man making I don't know $57,000 is going to spend an extra seven grand a year to have the same plan he has this year. There are challenges for the everyone in this community and not everybody really has the money to to to to make up for these losses. So, we need health human services because they're we've got their work cut out for them. So, I support the budget as presented and uh I hope we can have uh more increases in the next year

or so human services can be something that we can depend on. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other visitors public comment? Any other visitors comment? Item number five, then we'll move on. Reading of the minutes of the previous meeting, which is automatically waved unless requested by the majority of the members present. Seeing none. Item number six, resolutions and ordinance referred to committee.

There are none. Item number seven, introduction of resolutions and ordinance for first reading and referral. Resolution number 2025-53 by Finance and Human Resources Committee setting a tax levy for 2025 to be collected in 2026. Vice Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Your executive committee met earlier this evening and unanimously passed resolution 2025 54. And if there's no objection, we'd like to present that to the county board tonight for first reading only. Seeing no objections,

resolution number 2025-54 by the executive committee in support of the nomination of the Thomas H. Smith shipwreck steam barge restricted location in Lake Michigan near Calonia to the Wisconsin State Register of Historic Places and the National Register of Historic Places.

Item number nine, communications from the communications and claims. Number one, notice of exemption from county tax for library services for the year 2026 from the Burlington Public Library. And number two, a memo in support of the 2026 budget from county board supervisor QA Shakur II. Items number one and two are received and filed in the county clerk's office.

I will also note for the supervisors, if you haven't been through the items on your desk, Supervisor Shakur's memo um is there's copies for all of you available tonight. Um item number three is a claim against Ring County. Items four and five are foreclosures of mortgage and items number six through 25 are notifications from the United States Bankruptcy Court. So items number three through 25 are referred to Finance and Human Resources Committee and Corporation Council. Any any requests for copies? Supervisor Coleman. Thank you, Chairman. Three, please. Number

three. Three. Supervisor Spencer. Number three, please. Thank you. I'll also take number three. Supervisor Hoffman. Number three for me also. Thank you. Supervisor Pricer.

Number one. Mr. Chairman. Any other requests? Report number 2025-42 by county executive making a reappoint to the rine county civil service commission was referred to the finance and human resources committee. Miller go here. Mr. Chairman, this will be taken up uh at our Wednesday meeting. Okay.

Uh next we have So this will be laid over. So next we have report number 2025-43 [clears throat] by county executive making reappoints to the rine county board of health. This was referred to the health and human development committee. Supervisor Miller. Mr. Chairman, um committee had been notified that we would be asking for recommendation tonight. These are two reappoints, namely John Mson of Rochester and Vicky Prohaskca who actually lives in Mount Pleasant. Uh so I would ask a member of the Health and Human Development Committee for a recommendation on these reappointments. So move

uh Supervisor Coleman is asking for a recommendation to confirm and I believe Vice Chair Meyer has seconded. So any discussion on that from the Health and Human Development Committee. All right. From the committee, all in favor? I.

Any opposed? So that being the recommendation, I would move to confirm these reappointments. Motion's been made and seconded. Are there any comments or questions on this reappoint? Seeing none, all in favor say I. Opposed. Motion's carried. Next, we have report number 2025-44 by County Executive making appointments to the Rene County Board of Health.

I refer that to the Health and Human Development Committee. Mr. Chairman, just um point of information uh because the committee will not be meeting uh this month next week at our meeting, I'm going to ask the same thing of the committee for a recommendation on these two appointments. So, [clears throat] just a little advanced notice. Thank you. And the other is report number 2025-45 by county executive making a reappoint to the Veterans Service Commission. And that also goes to Health and Human Services Department. And that'll be the same way supervisor. Yeah.

Item number 10, standing committee reports containing recommendations and items referred. There are no reports.

Second reading of resolutions and ordinances. Under the majority vote category, we have resolution number 2025-44 by public works parks and facilities committee authorizing the conveyance of county owned land by permanent easement to Wisconsin electric power company doing business as we energies to replace the transformer. Resolution number 2025-45 by public works parks and facilities committee authorizing the conveyance of county owned land by permanent easement to Wisconsin electric power company doing business as we energies to install additional electrical cables and maintenance of equipment and resolution number 2025-50 by finance and human resources committee authorizing amendments to the 2026 rine county executive budget and adopting the budget as amended

approval second motion has been made and a Seconded. Mr. Chairman. Yes. I'd ask for a separate consideration of the budget resolution 202550. Mr. Chairman. Yes. I'm requesting a roll call on resolution 2025-50. Okay. Supervisor Hopkins.

Yes. So, um, resolution 202544. This authorizes the conveyance of a county owned uh land by permanent easement to Wisconsin electrical power company DBA Wisconsin Energies to replace the transformers. This is a uh new transformer that will be need to replaced at the Dennis Cornwall center and it was uh and approved by the committee. Any question any questions on these over at at the Dennis Cornwall Center? Continue, Mr. Supervisor Hopkins.

All right. Second resolution here, 202545. Uh, this authorizes conveyance of another conveyance of the county owned land by permanent easement to Wisconsin Electrical Power Company, DBA Scott Energies to install additional electrical cables maintenance equipment. This regards to the um running an easement underneath Pitcher Park for the uh Pitcher Park Place uh apartments and condos that is going up over by the mall. It was inly approved by the committee. Any questions on 202545? We'll take a majority vote. All in favor say I. I

opposed. Motion's carried. Supervisor Trudier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, in regards to resolution 2025 um-50, let me just do a quick review here. Um, amendment number one indicates operating cuts and limit of the levy to 2.8. cuts are proposed at $859,360. The general levy will be 62,591563 down from the um budget book stated of 64,375416. The amendment proposed mill rate is 2.48. This is down from 2.59. Reduction of the county levy. Uh the purpose of this is to reduce the tax levy for the 10 municipalities that contribute to the postretirement health benefits of the former employees of the county schools. The 10 municipalities did participate in the Children with Disabilities Education Board before it was dissolved in June of 20, excuse me, June of 2006. Amendment number three eliminates the lifeguards at Browns Lake net savings of 74,000. And amendment number five to eliminate the designation of unfunded from any and all positions in all positions authorizes the county board section of the budget book. This will clarify future budget discussions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Is there a motion? I I'll make a motion to approve. We do. Okay. Any comments? Question. Supervisor Caprellian. Thank you kindly. I did want to propose an amendment this evening. Would this be the time to do so? Yes. All right. Do you want me to wait my turn? If you had something going on in the chambers,

looks like you're all we've got your we've got your attention, Supervisor Capellian. Well, lucky me. So, thank you. Uh, I do appreciate it. I did propose an amendment and sadly I was not able to attend due to I have COVID. So, I don't want to share that love with all of you. Uh, [snorts] but I would like to reintroduce my amendment and that is to properly fund the communications overtime uh budget line item. Can I just continue on my rationale or what would be the format? Chairman, yes. Why don't you continue?

All right. Perfect. Thank you so much. So, through research and uh when Jackie was presenting um it was noted uh during her presentation, I saw that their communications overtime budget was underfunded. I decided to in substantially not minimally but substantially. So I did some research and I only went back about eight years and I noticed that it has been chronically underfunded. So just with the last five years from 2021 through 2025 we budgeted an average of $160,000 per year for overtime. But we actually spent an average of $462,000 in some Trump change. Uh that's $32,000 annual shortfall every single year. So in 2021, uh we budgeted $100,000, but we spent $44,000. 2022 we budgeted 100,000, spent 440,000, and it just it just continues. And now here, let's go in 2025, uh, we budgeted 200,000 and right now it's already projected at 456,000. So the 2026 budget, it's still just at 200,000. So we are truly setting ourselves up for year nine of what I've looked at. It could probably have gone back even further of the exact same problem. Uh this as you guys know for communication it's not about wasteful spending. We have a 24/7 operation that happens within the emergency center um communication center

and we can't shut off 911. That's why I've kind of focused on this area here because back in September, if you remember at um our later September meeting, we had spe a specialist who uh had honored uh Jackie and another individual uh as their response to her one-year deployment. So, we are already going to be going into 2026 knowing that we are going to have a position that's going to have to be covered. uh by staff and uh I know in Wednesday's meeting I sat and listened to it that there were several supervisors that expressed concerns about using the human service reserves as I had suggested and I understand the hesitation but I hope you truly listen to director Otto herself saying that she was supportive of this amendment. She explained that the human services reserves were approximately 3.9 million at the end of the year and uh the reserves remain healthy. And here's another thing uh the practice has been used most years to support the overall county budget. So, human services happens to have uh the fortunate in the recent years to reduce their out of home placement costs and actually contribute to those reserves as director Otto had stated. So, and being that this is uh a healthy or not healthy but a standard practice, some supervisors I heard during the meeting had concerns um again about it setting a precedence, but this is something we've been doing. And what other department has this 8-year consistently running over 300% overbudget on overtime? [snorts] So, I don't think this is about opening the

floodgates. It's about fixing this one specific chronic budgeting that we have that we know going into 2026, we're already going to see we're going to have to be using some overtime. So, I know Supervisor WISH said, "Why are we budgeting for overtime that we haven't spent yet?" Well, I would answer that because here we are. We're eight years of data that I've looked at that we we're proven it will be spent. The overtime is not optional for 911. So, we're not creating new spending. We're budgeting honestly. And I think I remember Jonathan Delgrave really led this about the county being transparent. We want as much transparency as we possibly can have. Uh and this is really about showing what are we truly spending in the communication so we can address what we may need to address each budget cycle. So uh you know I am just asking for uh the reconsideration for approval and uh you know hopefully you will see that uh this is something that we do need to prop budget for to have a good reflection and I'm only asking this county board to add $280,000 to the communication overtime budget bringing the total to $480,00 000 for 2026. That's still 17,000 below the five-year average of what we've actually spent. So, it's it's about being more realistic. And um I'll happily debate if there's any other questions, but thank you for giving me this opportunity.

I take that's a a motion you're making. Is there a second? Is there a second? Thank you, Supervisor Pricer. Your motion has been made and seconded. There any discussion? Mr. Chairman, Supervisor Pricer,

I do have a question. How has this $300 shortfall been filled for the last many years? The same process taking the reserves from Health and Human Services. Director Zimmerman. Zimmer. Thank you, director.

Yes. Every year, the Finance and Human Resources Committee approves and sends to board a resolution that does a budget cleanup for the entire enterprise of the county. So, any departments that have a shortfall are covered by departments that have excess. you know, if you don't spend all your office supply money, that goes to cover those areas and went over and the remaining would go into the contingent area or be taken from the contingent area if needed. Last year, we added over two 2 million to the contingent area. So, this is where it gets cleaned up from.

Okay. So, there there's already a process now outside of the budget process that handles this, but I think Supervisor Capillian's amendment is trying to be more deliberate about it, which I don't disagree we should do, but All right. Thank you, Supervisor Horth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, if I'm understanding this amendment correctly, this would in essence be increasing the current expense plan that we have in this budget for next year to the tune of I think I'm sorry, Supervisor Capell, was it $200,000? 280. 28. So, almost $300,000. We will be increasing the expense model for next year. That's a question.

Yes. I mean, we're taking it out of a contingency fund and putting it into the budget versus seeing where we shake out at the end in 20 early 2027 and and do the cleanup. So, we're [clears throat] actually budgeting closer to what Supervisor Caprellian thinks is going to be the actual um overtime.

So, again, just thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for clarification, then if we approve this amendment, we will be adding $300,000 at this point into this budget. And by the way, I don't disagree with Supervisor Capellian's approach to this. I'm just trying to understand as we go through this process of reviewing amendments or discussions what we're going to actually be doing to this plan that we've all been talking about. So again, I've got a running total for myself. I'm sure the other supervisors do as well. So, thank you,

Supervisor Wish. Um, it's my understanding, and I don't want to speak for the uh department head, but maybe she should come up and explain her staffing issues over the last seven or eight years versus what she's anticipating to be. It's my understanding that we'll be almost fully staffed. And since I've been on the board, she's never had fully fully staffed. At least we're closer. Uh, that may have a bearing on the overtime. And yeah, I don't like uh building more expense into the current budget that we don't know for sure is going to happen or not. Uh those are two significant factors I think. Thank you.

Would you like to come up director and give us a rundown on what you feel you're

Hi. Thank you. So, as I mentioned um during the budget presentations that effective today, we are fully staffed. Um as Supervisor Capillian mentioned, we do have an employee on November 17th who will be on military leave for approximately 400 days. So, that being said, yes, we're fully staffed today. However, six of the employees that started the end of August, three of which are signed off and call taking, three of which have met significant challenges as we're nearing their sign off date for the first phase of their training. So, I know I've mentioned a few times that our biggest failure rate is during the initial training. That's that's what we see over and over again when we hire uh new team members. So that is mainly where we're losing people is in those first several weeks of employment of not successfully completing the training in those first phases. So the hope is always that we will have uh full staff which is why the number is plugged in the way it is but um it is truly a gamble with with where those numbers will be. Unfortunately that's the best explanation I can offer. Any further questions?

Me? Yeah. How do you feel about the uh amendment? Um I mean obviously I appreciate um the offer for help. Um we've had the discussion about overtime year after year. So um certainly understand where Supervisor Caprian is coming from. Again, it would be a complete gamble for me to speculate on where exactly we are. It kind of is a gamble going into every budget um where that number will land unfortunately. Supervisor Cole,

how many just the kind you sound very shaky when you use the words fully staffed. How many times like just best guess not how many times have you actually even been this close to fully staffed say average on the last five years?

I I unfortunately did not bring that number with me. Um but as I mentioned it is it's a gamble. It's um it's a very difficult job to learn and a very difficult job to teach. So um most of the job has to be learned on the job. So you're taking through 911 calls. you're providing CPR instructions to somebody while your trainer is helping you walk through that. So, you can imagine the pressure that comes with learning a job like that. So, some folks leave on their own because it's just too much to handle in in those moments. Um, others, despite great effort, um, we just are not able to comfortably sign them off taking those calls independently and we certainly wouldn't want someone answering the phone who cannot be confident in their skills and abilities in doing so. So yeah, it's it's unfortunately a gamble to say, you know, I I will be fully staffed for however long, but um today is is an anomaly for sure.

Supervisor Miller.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh I certainly appreciate Supervisor Capellian's intent and desire to be closer to the mark uh in this unknown budget category. However, Director Zimmer has already indicated we do have a process to take care of this and I think it's a good process. Um, and I have the utmost respect for Director Otto, but I'm very protective about that human services reserve and I think although it's been used for other things, it ought not to be touched. I think it would be a very bad precedent to touch it for something that is uh unknown at this time. So, we have a process. It works. Um, I appreciate the sentiments, but I'm going to vote no on this.

If I could ask a question of uh, Director Zimmer real quick. Um, if we don't spend all that money that we have for overtime, where does that overage or that unspent money go? Do you mean if this amendment is approved and then you don't spend all of the money? Right. in general back to the general fine reserves or to cover another department that goes over. Okay. Supervisor Troutier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um the last time this came up in the amendment process. I voted no against this request. I thank you, Supervisor Capri, for your comments this evening. And um I am not for taking funds out of the HHS budget or reserve account, contingency fund, however we're using that. So I'm not for this. And I keep going back to why are we going to budget and possibly spend $300,000 for something that we don't know for sure. And I asked the director Bratz the last time, are we staffed fully? Yes, we are. So, let's be optimistic about this. I understand the precedent from the past, but let's be optimistic that we won't have overtime to the extent that we've had in the past. And should we have overtime, we have a process that will continue to follow. So, I will not be supporting this amendment.

Any further chair? Supervisor Capillian,

thank you so much. I will just challenge that uh statement of this being an unknown and think of how we budget. We budget by looking at our our past actuals. we budget by um you know taking a look at um historically and that's how we propose any of the line items. So if you use that sense of rationale that this is an unknown um well then I'll use it across the whole budget. But what I will challenge it on again is that there is a known. We are spending an average an average of $462,581 per year. That's a $32,000 annual shortfall every single year. This is no unknown. I mean, I'll just 2021 once again, $100,000 budgeted or I'll just say how much we spent. $44,000 2022 440,000 2023 $476,000 2024 536,000 2025 456,000. And ever since I've got on the county board, mind you, I have heard over and over again the struggles with having uh employees stay on in uh communications. It's a hard hard job. I don't think we'll ever hear it being said any differently. They are going to have turnover. If any of you have gone and gone to dispatch and sat in there, you feel you feel the difficulty of that

job. So, uh we'll continue to have turnover. Uh director Jackie, she did mention about the new employees and the current uh training uh being not yet uh working independent, like six of them, I think. And then we have the military leave. With all that being said, uh there is going to be uh an impact on overtime. So, and other things that we have to also put into consideration, our joint b dispatch contract entered into the final decade where municipal contribution declined 10% every year. So, we're now uh we're we have a loss of revenue. We're losing revenue while operation demands stay exactly the same. So I heard about historically looking our the call center is receiving more calls than what it used to receive in the past. So keep that in mind as well. And there's been introduction of new ways for communications to come in like through text. So the demands on that department. Second ofly, we made appropriate workforce adjustments, reclassifying supervisors to higher pay grades, increasing shift lead premiums. Um, and this was some d some time ago, adjusting wages for essential personnel. I don't know if you remember that, but this all affected it, but yet they're having a 10% of our revenue animal from the municipal partner partners being lost. I'm going to be honest, folks. I don't know where the money um should come from. that was the one that you know was came to me and I was going to pull from somewhere else but if any of you have any other better suggestions but why do we budget to act to have an accurate representation of what we're going to be

spending for our coming year. So, if we are going to keep putting in that budget that we're only spending 200,000 or 100,000, whatever you guys wish to say, it's inaccurate. It's an inaccurate representation of how much it costs to run our communication center. So, I I think we would be doing a disservice to our whole budgeting process. Granted, this is just one tiny line item, but it stands out. Don't we want to look as accurate as possible? So, I argue that fact. And again, this is more of a realistic look at it and uh I think we need to move forward with this amendment or a proposal of it coming from somewhere else. Um so, uh that's my final argument. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other comments or questions, chairman? Okay, Price. I couldn't see behind Bob. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with Supervisor Capillian's sentiment, but I think we can do a better job and have a more realistic approach on staffing and overtime, but I'm not sure this is the time or the method to solve this. Um, if it were done though, I I do want to confirm. I think there was the the comment that it would increase expenditures. It would, but if I understand right, the use of reserves would not increase the levy to taxpayers. That is correct. Thank you,

Supervisor Horton. Sorry, I wasn't going to add until I heard that because the one thing I I would be offering were very cautious about is that approving expenses in anticipation that we know we're not going to get to a number, but we can always go to a reserve account and get the number. To me, I that that's not transparency. And I know there's a process in place. I get it. I don't have any issue with that. The problem is we're just literally saying we are going to underbudget a line item because we know that based on the trend that's what's going to happen and then we can go ahead and have money come out of a reserve account to offset where that shortfall is. Can we do that for all departments that go in excess then go to a reserve account? I I'd be really guarded and cautious before we start but sorry continue budgeting with that mindset. Supervisor Wish.

Yeah, I I am definitely against the amendment only because I don't know. We've been on the board. I've been on the board 17 years. You've been on the board 20 over 20 some odd years. You can't budget for overtime. It's it's the sheriff's department. We've had a running battle with them forever. This is another department that you need is an and we have to have and if they spend overtime we have to come up with the money at this point. We don't know what that number is and I am in the same boat. I don't want to we already have a procedure in place for handling it. They're not going to be they're going to get covered rather than putting it in the budget and another $300,000 expense on the expense line. So to me it's a moot point on the amendment. Thank you. Any further comments?

Roll call.

Roll call. Vote on this amendment to uh transfer $280,000 out of the uh human services u resource reserves. to the overtime for the communication operators at the 911 center. Okay, first we need everyone to just check into the meeting. towards John

and hit confirm again maybe. There we go. [music] Now you can vote. Um, Supervisor Capellian, how are you voting? Hi. And Supervisor Shakur, I'm going to attempt to unmute you. Um, Jonathan, are you able to unmute? Supervisor. Oh, all right. Supervisor Shakur, do you want to text me your vote? He was texting. He could hear, but he couldn't speak.

Oops. And I think I hit the wrong voted. No, I that was I grabbed the wrong one. I have to confirm. This is Supervisor Capriian's vote. Um I I need to confirm Supervisor Capri or excuse me, Supervisor Shakur because I grabbed the wrong thing as I was trying to contact him. Um Mr. chairman would be would it be acceptable if I call supervisor Shakur?

Otherwise, if Supervisor Shakur could text phone here, you text me. I've got my phone here if you want. Or you can try calling [clears throat] him, but he's probably on

Well, he he tried calling me and I have my phone on so He's texted yes. So that is the correct vote. Just give us a moment so we can get that recorded. So that amendment does not pass.

Moving on, Supervisor Spencer. Thank you. I would like to present an amendment to uh to the third amendment that we approved um last week and I'd like to re reinstate the funding to lifeguards at Browns Lake. Is there a second? Motion's been made and a seconded to uh uh re re uh fund the lifeguards at Brown Lake. Browns Lake. Is there any comments? Supervisor Spencer?

Um, yeah. As you know from last week, I had heartburn with removing the the uh lifeguards that were hired to work rescue and other duties at the lake. And um for the minuscule amount that it would save and bring um which is 0.003 cents per household and 75 cents for the average household across Rine County. It is not worth taking away lifeguards that can save lives and do all the other important duties that they do. and I hope that we pass my amendment.

Supervisor Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, you know, I am one that has a history of and a desire to find things we can cut whenever we can. But I do know something like this, which is a high-profile public recreational issue, it irritates the hell out of people when we uh try to find something to cut and then we cut something like a lifeguard from a beach where people are hoping to have a safe summer. So, uh in committee, I did not support this and I now am supporting the reinstatement. Supervisor Pricer.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, this one's a tough one for me. It's in it's in my district. I've been a longtime supporter of water safety. It's why when Burlington did our aquatic center that made a strong a big focus of the aquatic center is teaching swim lessons uh to children as an important important life skill. Um, my personal thought is if the counties should either provide lifeguards at county beaches or not provide them at county beaches. And I didn't know until this discussion happened that at other county beaches we don't have lifeguards now. Um and really for me it's not about the savings of 75 cents for $250,000 house. Um it's more about the liability to the county. So unless we're I guess unless we have lifeguards at all of our beaches and they're well trained enough that there isn't going to be a drowning while we have someone on staff. Um, I'm concerned about having the lifeguards there and if we did have a drowning that then the county is liable for, you know, potentially millions of dollars um if there were to be a tragic accident. Um, so I I do like the idea of having safety, but I'm concerned about the liability for the county unless we're really sure that we're staffed adequately across all of our beaches. Corp council since you're the risk manager.

Sure. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the topic of liability, uh for county beaches, parks in general, uh generally speaking, the doctrine of recreational immunity applies. Um and so there being no statutory mandate that counties or municipalities provide uh lifeguards at public beaches, uh the absence of lifeguards or the presence of lifeguards in and of itself will not be dispositive uh when it comes to liability. In other words, having lifeguards, but then in the event that there was a drowning death, um, while it may influence somebody's decision to bring a legal action, generally speaking, that recreational immunity is going to apply. There's also statutory caps that would apply. of the reference to millions of dollars in the absence of you know gross uh negligence willful misconduct very unlikely that that sort of a finding or damage uh amount would apply. Um you know so the liability it's it's generally speaking not going to be um a consideration whether there are lifeguards or not given that it's not a statutoily mandated function different from an aquatic center or a public uh pool where there are uh minimum requirements for staffing that does not apply to public beaches such as Browns Lake. Supervisor Wishaw.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, again, I'm just going to piggyback off of Supervisor Pricer's comments. A lot of this really just comes down to consistency. Either we have them at all county parks or we don't. Um, again, um, safety consistency. Um, other natural water areas of Wisconsin's rivers, lakes, and beaches operate successfully under the same model of not having lifeguards presence present in different areas. So, um I would ask that we do keep this amendment um as is in the budget, please. Thank you, Supervisor Cole.

Um I do see Director Beam is here. I guess I got just kind of a When are we supplying lifeguards? I mean, are we supplying them from 7 in the morning till 8:00 at night? Are we doing them on weekends? I mean, how many are we how much time are we paying that? Maybe we have to look at different hours. We we supply them from 3 to six. Director Bean, I see the parks park superintendent too there. Lifeguard hours are 10 to six every day, seven days a week. Supervisor Horth.

Yeah. Mr. Chairman, just quickly for all of our knowledge, how many public beaches do we have in the county? Two, am I correct? Yeah. There is Cory Lake and and and Browns Lake. Those are the those are the county, right? And then of course we've got K Seagull with along the river. That's, you know, there's no kayaks and things going down there. So, okay. Thank you. Any further comments, questions? I'll let you go ahead. Supervisor Spencer.

Thank you. Um, does anyone know how long Browns Lake has had lifeguards? How many years? My intent in asking for them to be reinstated now is that they've been there for I'm sure many years. Haven't got a reply. And I also have the intent of bringing forth lifeguards to Corey Lake Park for the next budget. But with all the things going on in this budget, I didn't want to risk. a risk, but I didn't want to, you know, everybody wants to pull money out of the budget. I'm just trying to keep the that amount where it is. And next year, I hope to propose that we have lifeguards at our county park, which we have not been charging for. Browns Lake has been collecting a a fee for also I don't know how many years, but um we are now this year in the budget is to start charging a fee at Corey Lake Park. So it hasn't happened yet. So my reasoning is wait till next year and then hopefully we'll get lifeguards at the other county beach. Could that not make sense? Supervisor Wishaw.

Thank you, sir. Uh, this is more of just a question for the fees that we charge at, uh, Browns Lake. This is probably a question for director uh, Beam. The fees that we charge at Browns Lake and for the cost, this is more just general information. Fees that we charge at Browns Lake versus the cost for the lifeguards. Are we making uh, I guess are we are we in the are we in the black versus the red? I I suppose it's it wouldn't just be the lifeguards included in that, but but Browns Lake is is in the red,

right? So, I guess to the the point uh Supervisor Spencer, if we were to start if we're charging fees at Corey Lake, right? And then we're adding a cost. Um I mean, I guess we're not really going to be heading into the black in that park then either. Correct. most likely. We would need some time to see how everything shakes up. I guess what I'm getting at is we're we're going to be adding an expense. That's really what it's going to come down to. Any further comments? Supervisor Hopkins.

And we'll get you next. Supervisor Caprellian. Supervisor Hopkins. I wholeheartly agree with my colleague uh Supervisor Spencer and I will be uh voting in affirmative for amendment. Supervisor Cabbrillian. Thank you kindly. Uh I'm not sure if Supervisor Spencer's question was answered about how long we have had uh lifeguards. Was that answered? Supervisor or Director [clears throat] Bean or Supervisor Miller? I I'd have to get back to you on that time length that we have lifeguards at at Fiser. As long as I've been here. Yeah. How long have you been here? 10 years.

That's fine. 10 years. So, at least 10 years. Much before that. Okay. And um then with my next question would be, were the fees put in place to help cover the cost of lifeguards? Is that or did the fees supersede life there?

Uh generally beaches are very expensive between the fees cover the sand. They cover uh I mean we pay a lot to have that beach on that lake to the lake district itself. So that's a lot of the fees and yes some of the go could go to the lifeguard. There's no one thing that those fees are dedicated for. It's beaches are very expensive. Anytime you have property on a lake it's very expensive to have that property on a lake. And so that's that's what those fees cover. They help cover everything.

Yeah. I mean I mean and this goes back I know they've been charging fees for the last at least 15 years cuz I think that was when we were to going over there to the beach. And then of course we made an upgrade over at the beach with the new concession stand changing rooms just like we did over at at Corey Lake this year with this the the [snorts] seaw wall and the building and the dredging we've done and the and over there we have to do a a treatment every so often to control the elderly. So there is a lot of costs involved in a in a in a beach.

I can understand that. So thank you. I was just trying to see if we establish those fees based on uh having lifeguards. uh the one comment that I don't think has been made but when I think about um culture or or human behavior, human patterns or you know there certain things we expect from spaces and places you know I can say as a mother who has brought their child to whether it be the library or whether it be to a beach or a space and continually over the years uh you build a certain set of expectations of that space and you know if it has been established for as long as it's been that we have lifeguards. Uh it just it becomes like this extra security in place that you've come to rely on. And as this isn't something that we just introduced like within the last couple years in response to you know whether it's been drownings like we've been seeing us trying to come up with solutions uh down by um Lake Michigan. Uh you know I would I really think the community has come to depend on this level of safety. I would have to agree with the other supervisors who are really, you know, arguing this and especially with our li, you know, whether we'd have liability or not and um I but I am of the mindset now um hearing that it's been established for so long and it has to deal with safety. Is it something we should have been in business of? I probably not. Maybe we never should have started it, but we did. And uh this probably isn't the way to let it go. I think maybe we could

start backing out of it. I did hear Supervisor Spencer talk about next year possibly at Corey Lake uh propose it. Maybe there's some other solution. So before having us be the solution of bringing lifeguards, maybe there's another solution. And then with that solution, we find a way to start easing ourself out of the obligation of that. But um I'm going to have to support uh Supervisors Spencer's amendment. Thank you. You can go, Supervisor Wish. Thank you.

Now you brought up all sorts of other questions. Um, I know I I used to be a lifeguard. Uh, so I'm familiar with that what what needs to be done and what they do. Uh, I would like to see more input or since we don't know a whole lot about what it's costing us as a county, I would like to see more data. Uh, I would like to know how much is being spent on the maintenance of the beach. uh the maintenance of the park and how much the lifeguards are actually costing us and then relook at the fees and also see if the village or the township or whatever can help offset some of those expenses. Um and I agree maybe we should have a lifeguarded since we've got them at Browns Lake at Corey. I think we've had more issues at Corey than than than anywhere. Um, but I don't want to agree to that until I know what what it is we're spending. Thank you.

Supervisor Coleman, did you have a comment?

I just wanted to say in a in a place safety wise, people pay. Doesn't matter if we're in the red or black, safety. We need to adopt this everywhere. It's a yes for me. Fraser Wishaw. Thank you. Uh to answer your two of your questions, the cost is $74,000 a year for salary. Um the town will not chip in cost. I can tell you that right now. Um and then I guess I just have a general question. And what what are the other neighboring counties or municipalities around us that do not have lifeguards and that have not had them from some time? I mean, I guess how how they fared all these years with no issues.

Supervisor Spencer last time.

Thank you. Uh there have been issues. Fox Nix uh Fox 6 News reported in 2017 that a four-year-old boy drowned in in Browns Lake. So, it was stated last week that there had been no drownings and that after some research from a friend that um we we discovered that a child did drown in 2017. Two years ago, someone drowned at Cory Lake Park. And um my feeling is if people are paying to get into a beach or a park, they should be provided, they should expect services and they should be pro provided with lifeguards. Um, I think other solutions are I would like to see this amendment to the amendment pass and then look at changing hours. You referred to how Tuesday afternoons were dead. I think they're not dead, not busy and the lifeguard might sit there and do nothing. So, we can review the hours. I don't know, maybe Raleigh would consider that. Um that's it's important to have safety there. Since I was a kid, Browns Lake was probably the busiest beach around and um it the lifeguards were useful. I mean, I don't don't remember specifically because that was a long time ago, but it's been a long time and people do expect when they pay that they get services and that's why, you know, I didn't bring it up this time for Corey Lake Park, but I will next time. And I think that's reasonable to expect those services.

Any further questions or comments, Mr. Chairman? Yes. So, it it has been this this supervisor remembers as a youngster there were lifeguards at Browns Lake. So, you can try to do the math. I'm not going to share anymore, but um it's been longer than 21 years, huh, Bob?

Yes, sir. [clears throat] Um, if this had been part of the county executive's original budget at which the public would have had a chance to chime in on this, I might feel a little bit differently about this, but you know, for a small amount of money, and I like to save small amounts of money if we can. I think this is really bad optics. I can see a headline. After 50 years, county board acts as lifeguards at Browns Lake. It saves you 75 cents on your house. Any further comments or questions? Like a This is a uh voice vote. Well, a roll call. We'll have a roll call vote. Thank you, Supervisor. Could you clarify what a yes and a no vote mean?

Okay. So, a yes would uh actually restore the funding for the lifeguards at Brown's Lake and if supervisor wish 74 about $74,000. So, Supervisor Capellian, how do you vote? I vote I Supervisor Shakur, how do you vote? Yes.

Thank you. I'll have voted and two, three, four, six. This motion passes. 15 in favor. And please leave that up so we can record that. Thank you.

Any further amendments from the floor, Supervisor Kelly?

Thank you. Um, I had discussed this uh last week with finance and also with Director Strait. Um, I would like to make an amendment to remove the $250,000 out of the contingency fund. Um, it was made I was made aware that the um salary study is actually listed on page 155 under contracted services. So, this was just for wages. And I did get a copy of the contract. There's nothing in the contract that I can see that says that we have to put this in the contingency fund. it could be brought forward at the time when they do present that salary study. So I would be a lot more comfortable um having that done all at one time rather in peace mill just for transparency sake. So this is my motion for that amendment.

Motion's been made and seconded. Supervisor Wishaw, any comments, questions, Mr. Chairman, Supervisor Miller, um was my understanding that this was approved last year by the full county board. Mhm. Um, as I So I I'm I'm very open to what you're trying to do here, but I I do not understand how we can change something that was already done. If

can [clears throat] can uh Director Zimmer or Corp Council help us with that? or supervisor or [clears throat] director streeter Zimmer ex explain to us the 250,000 so what was approved last year is on page 155 that's in the HR budget that's to have the salary study completed this would be to implement the salary study recommendations so it would be wages that are put in the contingency fund

so you're Just a if I could, Mr. Supervisor Miller, can I ask a question? Thank you. You're done. Okay. So, so this is we're taking this out of the contingency fund just like kind of budgeting overtime. That's we don't have a real hard number like we just did with Supervisor Caprellians. Yeah, I would say it's um the bare minimum that we're going to need to get the framework in place to implement the salary study. Supervisor Rossi.

Thank you, Chairman. Um, curious then, Director Street, how what does that exactly mean? Is that is that labor hours for you to to do something or is that actual hour payment towards salary increases?

Yes, it would be actual payment towards salary increases. So like I was explaining what through the salary study some positions that we have um already addressed through when we had the ARPA funds and we identified the essential positions. So some positions we have addressed in previous years. So some of those positions maybe need a very minimal increase whereas others are going to need more of a drastic increase because maybe they haven't had a close look in 15 20 years. Another followup question. Go ahead. Thank you chair. Then the question is, is the salary study done or is it not done? It is not in final form yet,

but we're acting on it. It's very close to being done. No, we're putting aside some money so that when we are able to come to all of you with a final plan that we would have some money to act on. It's very close. What is the number right now? I mean, I don't feel comfortable talking so about those numbers today. Interesting. Thank you. It is it's my understanding that to go into the details of the salary study, it would have to be properly noticed. Supervisor Troutier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um I don't have any questions for Director Street. Just a comment. Um I'm not an expert in uh HR. Um I I think that's why we have the director here speaking on behalf of HR. Um and not having the final study completed is acceptable to me. Um I think it's necessary that we put funds aside to for the possibility of the results of the study. And I don't I'm not in favor of allocating those funds for property tax relief. I believe we have in our budget, the proposed budget, the proposed amended budget, approximately $5 million in there already set aside for property tax relief. And I just assume rather leave this money in fund for HR's possibility of having to increase some of the salaries. So, I will not be in favor of this amendment.

Supervisor,

Supervisor Rossi.

Thank you, Chairman. This is just more of a general comment. I find it very odd that there is an amount in the budget for which we cannot understand via a paper trail what is the basis for the ask. So we this is a huge leap of faith and I'm a trust but verified type of person. So we don't have the final understanding of what the total value is. There's really no way to verify what portion of this is actually, you know, addressing the [snorts] full amount of the salary increase. If if this if this is a large number, which I'm starting to really think it is, I this is starting to become very concerning. I didn't expect to to find out about it through this discussion. Thank you,

Supervisor Cole.

I kind of I guess I'm kind of confused. When was the original date that this study was supposed to be finished? Because it it just seems odd that we're doing this right now when we're trying to do a budget. And this is actually one of my concerns going forward and why I'm kind of very I'm I still don't know how I'm going to vote on this budget tonight because this salary study is hanging over our heads and we run into something next year. We are on the cusp right now with the sales tax of making a budget and if this comes out I I just I kind of felt like this was supposed I've been hearing about this for a long time. Do we have an original date of when this was supposed to be? I do not have a firm date and um I just would also like to say the salary study is not only comparing our wages but it is also looking at all of our benefits including vacation insurance costs. It's it's a very comprehensive study and all of those details will be given to all of you.

Supervisor Hor. [clears throat]

Thank you and and Director Street. First of all, I'd applaud you for anticipating this as a part of the plan going forward. However, um along with the other supervisor's comments right now, I find it very difficult to agree and support this type of a situation when we're about to approve a budget when we knew the timing of the budget. We knew exactly when this was all going to be done. And the fact that this company hasn't completed their study yet because this was already, I know, doled out a while back that it wasn't committed that it was going to be completed so we could have meaningful information to make an educated decision on this process is very troubling to me right now. Um, along with the others and and again, I applauded you for making sure you're thinking about it. The problem is it could be this number. It could be no number or it could be double this number. And we're on the cusp right now of trying to approve something that none of us are feeling 100% comfortable with as it relates to our constituents and what they're expecting from us. So just my observation.

Yes. And we do want you to be 100% comfortable and it is a lot of information to digest. That's why we do want to do it separately outside of the budget because it would be very messy and clunky to be doing this all at once. [clears throat]

In fairness though, that's based on where we are today. I think what my assertion is right now is this is something that should have already been completed two months ago. So before the numbers ever got presented with the dollars and cents attached to people's salaries or wages that we knew that information. So that was a meaningful document for us at this point. So that that's the only thing I'm saying. All right. I understand timing and I understand processes very and by the way certainly I've done enough wage surveys where I get the process but 21 of us are being asked to make this decision tonight and and that's where unfortunately that's where some of us are thinking right now.

If I if I may ask uh add two comments just to give some um greater context around this. We had to do an RFP in order to pick this vendor for the the contract. Um I just looked at the RFP timeline and the anticipated finalization date was November 2025. So we are still on schedule for it. It's November 3rd. So I we're still on on target for it. Um it was so comprehensive that I sat in on the RFP evaluation. There was no way that they could have completed it two months earlier. they needed that amount of time to look at all of our comparables. And then also um because we had never done this before, I reached out to Kenosha County. I knew that they had done a salary study within the last couple years um with their finance director to figure out how they budgeted for anticipated wage increases and they did it the exact same way that we're proposing here. They had half a million dollars set aside in wages for salary wage increases in their budget so that when they were available when the study was available they had money set aside for it.

Mr. Mr. Chairman, could I just make one additional point? Um, upon finalization of the salary study to affect any of the changes that was would either be reclassification or renaming the various classifications for the the the different employee classes um to uh increase pay uh for a particular position. Um to make those sorts of adjustments would require separate board authorization. And so there was a comment made about transparency. I I just want to make sure that everybody is understanding in that that 250,000 which is for all intents and purposes a placeholder to address the most immediate uh impacts of the salary study that would not be the final action to actually expend. It's just when the time came upon finalization of the salary study to affect those most immediate uh impacts that fiscal note rather than necessitating the finding of new uh sources of funding it would be a transfer from as I understand it that contingency account uh if that were part of the approved budget this year. I just wanted to make that clarification of how that would actually be affected and to make clear that separate board authorization would still be needed.

Supervisor Pricer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Director Street or Zimmer, could you started to touch on it, but can you just speak to how you arrived at the $250,000 figure? Is it like a percentage of payroll or a recommendation of the consultant or maybe the county executive can?

I can answer that. I asked for a placeholder to be put in the budget this year again for realistic budgeting knowing that we were going to have to address the salary study at some point in the year probably in the fourth quarter of next year. Um that's a projected amount. We'll have to wait for for the final amounts to come out. And to your point, Supervisor HT, it would have been nice to have this months ago to have this debate before the budget, but that just wasn't possible. So, I would expect the debate to continue on. Whether or not we implement the salary study after this process, but again, that's a placeholder I asked to be placed in the budget. Doesn't mean we're going to spend it. Means we're going to still talk about it afterwards. But again, a safety feature in my opinion. Where is the real expense going to come in at? Supervisor Kelly.

Thank you. [clears throat] Um, so I guess I just have a a question. So I remember this document which was our original paperwork from our finance committee when I served on the finance committee. I very much took a a little journey down that path because I remembered this item because I had such angst with it because it was coming out of the contingency fund and so I remember that there was a a change but so this was June 19th of 2024. So I guess what first of all timelines matter since everybody's talking about timelines this all happened right before the sales tax. So that was interesting as well. So, um, why why is it taking so long for this to come out? Um, I guess is my question. And, you know, secondly, my comment would be, you know, I looked around at other different counties that have done some of these salary studies and, you know, I it could be upwards in the millions. So, I mean, it's it's uh scary. Supervisor Hopkins.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm I'm probably speaking rhetorically, but there's this whole budget process I'm looking at, there is an assumption of due diligence um and difference to a department in certain weight uh that I would attribute to um the work that they do. Um, so with that being said, I think it's a fairly high threshold for me, really high threshold to uh overturn a budget recommendation and uh I don't believe this has met that threshold. So I'm not in agreement with this amendment at all to know. Any further comments, questions, Mr. Chair?

Supervisor [snorts] Wish.

Um, we don't know. We don't know until we find out. And then if we find out and it's something that we can't live with, we don't vote for it. Um, but pre-planning and having some money available is better than having no money there. And we find out that we're so far off on what we're paying our employees that we can't do anything. So until we find out, I guess I am not in favor of this. this amendment. I'm in favor of leaving the money there as a placeholder and relying on the county executive and Sarah Streer and Director Zimmerman and all to come back and tell us what's realistic. What can we do? May not be able to increase everybody's wages, but maybe we hit the claim the the key employees and maybe it isn't millions of dollars. We don't know. Thank you. Any further comments?

I have a question. Chairman, go ahead. Supervisor Caprellian.

Thank you. First kind of I wanted to make a snarky comment because here we're voting on some unknown when my amendment was showing some known and it's so it's a little frustrating. I guess we're looking at something a little bit bigger here though. But um so if we remove this funding and the fund and the study and I I would almost need to hear uh uh Gwen repeat what she had said, but if the study was due this month, if it shows we need immediate salary adjustments for critical retention issues or whatever it may be, uh are you know what would that look like? uh we won't have any of the funding or mechanism in place until our next budget cycle. Is that how that would work? We would work wait until 2027 budget process or do an emergency amendment midyear or once the employees hear about it. That's my concern. Once this this wage study becomes public, the employees hear about it, then they move off to better pay because they see the [snorts] comparison uh through uh other municipalities or whatever our comparables are. I don't know if that's even something to be answered or maybe it is. You know, what happens then? Would we have to wait for the next budget cycle if this [snorts] gets removed? And correct me if I'm wrong, um, Director Zimmerman, but if we have a November 20 25 completion date, we will be shortly seeing this in January, February, March.

I don't want to first quarter.

Yep. is is nodding her head to that. And to answer your question, um, Supervisor Capellian, we often do budget amendments during the year. Those are fiscal notes and resolutions that come through the finance and human resources committee. So by setting money aside here, money would be available for a pending resolution that would come um when the salary sunny is presented to the board. If it were if this amendment were approved tonight, the money would be removed would go to direct property tax relief as outlined in the fiscal note directed by supervisor Kelly and the money would no longer be available. And one additional point, the midyear amendment. I'm sorry, Mr. May.

Supervisor Rossy, I was just one and then Supervisor Spencer is next. Thank you. Can I just follow up though after I hear Okay. Yeah, let's let's let's go back to Supervisor Capillian. Okay. Was that um uh Corporation Council Landstorm wanting to add something? I didn't hear that. I didn't hear whose voice that was, but What do you have there?

I just want to make sure that this body is clear that a mid-year budget amendment is a higher voting threshold. It's a twothirds member-elect vote. So 14 supervisors would need to be supportive of it versus the regular budget vote which is a majority vote. So I just want to clarify that technicality. Gotcha. Thank you. So from my understanding no matter what I mean if we do as what was just mentioned we come before us to do budget amendments throughout the year and when the results come in and we do need to make the necess necess um necessary necess what I would somebody help me co brain

necessity

thank you if we would need to move forward ward and uh make the proper amendments, we would do so anyway with the exact dollar amount. So, we don't know if it's 250, 150. Uh I I you know, are we that far off as a municipality? I mean, we we just don't know. I can see why supporting this makes a lot of sense. I mean, we definitely want as close to actuals as what we're seeing at the moment. Hence why my other amendment was being proposed. Um, and our necessary, that's the word I was trying. Oh my goodness. The necessary U dollars that we need to put aside. We have no idea at this moment. And we have a mechanism in place when we have to make amendments throughout the year. So, I guess the piece I'm missing, and maybe Gwen could speak on it, you know, what why would it be beneficial to have this $250,000 set aside now as this placeholder when we still have to move forward? Does it change the where the dollars come from or what happens throughout the year when the amendments would be needed to make adjustments? And correct me if I'm incorrect, Supervisor Zimmer, this is coming, this $250,000 is coming out of a non-allocated revenue that would be right now it's it's in our our um contingency.

Yeah, it is not coming from reserves. And if this passes, it doesn't go back into contingency. It goes in the property tax relief. That's correct. Okay. Does that answer your question, Supervisor Capellian? Well, then where will it come out of? Let's say now in January, come January, all of a sudden we get through the finance or come before the county board, we now have to make this adjustment and now we are going to have an ask from director Street saying we need $250,000 to adjust these wages. What pocket does that come out of then? most likely contingencies supervisor or director Zimmer.

Yeah, I would go at the direction of of the county board of where the just like amendments here tonight where the funding should or should not come from. I mean, available areas would be reserves or taking from another department or increasing revenues. I mean, Supervisor Troutier. No, I I'm I'm just stating that it may come back out of the contingency fund. Yeah. which just to be noted is reserves. Contingency reserves. Yeah. Whatever doesn't get spent from there goes into reserves and whatever is spent needs county board approval, right?

So, thank you. So, where whether we take it from it now or take it from it later. So, it sounds like uh you know just making sure with this amendment it's we don't have the dollar amount the exact dollar amount. We're just in preparation for it. Uh so, okay. Thank you, Supervisor Spencer.

Thank you. I'm glad we had this discussion. Um I am against the amendment. Um, but I feel I'm I'm voted for this last year and I'm in favor of completing it and discovering where our shortfalls are. And we need to pay our people appropriately and provide benefits appropriately because we don't want to lose good or great employees and we need to know. That's all I'll say.

Supervisor Rossi. Thank you, chairman. I would like to point out to everyone that if the anticipated let on this is going to be in Q4 of next year and it's $250,000, it doesn't take much more than 5 seconds of math to figure out that the minimum is a million dollar. Unless I hear otherwise, that's a number I'm going to run with. I find it very interesting is and director street just said this that the reason that this information isn't being discussed is that it wasn't properly noticed. We're talking about every aspect of this right now except for the full amount. We're talking about $250,000 and that can be correlated to the study as where else would that data have come from. But we can't talk about the full number because the study is not completed yet. Very concerning. We're making hiring decisions right now about more people. We're going to bring on more people and we're going to have to pay more money to but we're going to leave this portion of it off of the discussion for the budget. We're going to catch it next year in Q4. Very odd. Thank you.

Any further comments? Supervisor Cole,

I just got a quick and I don't even know if this is possible from direct directors street. Do we know what percent of the wages come out of the levy versus non- levy? Okay. It was just Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to take a little bit more time because of the funding for different locations, you know, different departments. No, it's it's it's kind of molded in human services and and and child support. Supervisor Horse. Mr. Chairman, if I could request that um when we get to the motion and the voting part that we repeat exactly what it is we're going to be voting on, please.

Yes. Any further questions? I'm going to call for a roll call vote on this one. Um, so a vote yes would uh take 200 and uh $250,000 out of uh of an expense that's paying for future projected costs of a salary study or portion of it. and it would put it would uh put it against properties the property tax relief in use. So does everybody understand what a yes vote is? You want any further clarifications? Okay. Okay. Okay, I'm going to just do round numbers here and guys are keeping me on my toes tonight. Uh about 30% are funded totally by grants and 70% by levy. Does that answer your question, Supervisor?

Thank you.

Supervisor Kellian, how do you vote on this amendment? I. So that's a yes. Could you say yes or no? It's easier to hear over virtual. Sure. Yes. Oh, thank you. Supervisor Shakur, the same question. How do you vote on this amendment? Uh he is voting no.

Okay. Yours should have been a no. Supervisor Coleman, I will just ask you to confirm that you abstained. Yeah. He's checking in. So, we have Supervisor Fryer. There's a note. Also, this is slightly unusual, but could I ask for a new tabulator vote so we're not changing three of them

or should we just proceed with the verbal changes? I want to make sure that I have these correct. Is everybody all right? [music]

So I will repeat. Supervisor Caprian had said yes. We'll mark that and supervisor Shakur had voted no. So that motion fails. And again, just give us a moment to document this. Thank you. Any further amendments from the floor? Any further amendments from the floor? Then we'll take up the resolution the 202550 which is

the budget. Supervisor Trier.

Thank you. I just have a comment uh before we take the vote. Um, I I would like to thank uh the residents here in the chambers this evening and those online. I'd also like to uh thank the employees that are here and online. And last but not least, uh our 21 county board supervisors that partake that are partaking in this great discussion that is the first time in my eight years on the county board that I've seen it like this. And it's great. Um, as we near the end of the 2025 year, I want to also thank the residents of Racine County and visitors for contributing since April of 2025 to the county sales tax. This provided the tradition of first class service and state-of-the-art public safety by covering the $17 million shortage that we had last year. As I've stated in the past, c this county budget has been a revenue issue, not a spending issue. Our neighbors to the south and our neighbors to the west have had the sales tax in place for 34 years, collecting from their residents and guests and visitors over $200 million towards their services. and safety quite a large amount. This proposed amended budget aligns with sessions that were held with county board supervisors in April of 2025. It was four priorities had been

identified. service, operations, capital, and cost cutting. All four of these are equally important. But what makes these priorities successful? Quality a number one county employees service with competent competitively paid employees. This is addressed in the 2026 amended budget along with $14 million in capital improvements and approximately $900 million in cost cutting. I will be in support of this budget. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Any any further? Supervisor Pricer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also have a statement I'd like to make. Um, I also would like to thank the the county executive for his leadership and the budget proposals that started the framework for this process. My fellow supervisors for all the insightful questions and amendments to ensure that the interests of the community are reflected, and the staff for all the support, answering questions, and preparing requested information and documents. Um, this budget, this year's budget process has probably been the most scrutinized in rine county history. Um, it's included hours and hours of public presentations, documents, questions and answers and debate. It included 27 pages of supervisor questions and answers. At least seven public meetings including a public hearing, multiple workshops, a committee of the whole meeting and the board meetings tonight, many of which have been broadcasted live and recorded for access and viewing at any time. The amended budget for us tonight includes the consideration of at least six amendments. This year's budget process has largely been a continuation of the county sales tax discussion and vote last year, which included about as many meetings and hours of discussion and considered at least three amendments. I respect the supervisors and other people in the community that opposed the county sales tax and wanted to make reasonable cuts and provide more property tax relief. Who doesn't want that? I mentioned it last year and I'll say it again this year. If anyone can demonstrate where we can make 10 to 17 million in reasonable cuts that don't defend uh don't defund critical services like the criminal justice system and roads, I'd be happy to support it then and I would today. Um this year's budget process proves the county sales tax vote was the right vote. After a year of looking with the most critical lens possible, including the scrutiny from several members of the state legislature and those wanting to run for county board next year, the seven the 10 to 17 million in reasonable cuts could not be

found, proving that there isn't wasteful spending or inefficiencies, and defunding the police was not a talking point or a scare tactic. Additionally, this year's budget process confirmed implementing the county sales tax was the financially responsible thing to do. S&P Global Ratings, a third-party credit rating agency, affirmed the county's AAA credit rating, citing, quote, "neew sales tax revenue will enhance fiscal stability and quote S&P currently notches the county's financial performance score upward by two points based upon forward-looking positive effects to the county's financial performance, such as implementing the county sales tax," unquote. There are things I don't like in this budget, such as the continued defunding and deferred replacement of county assets known to be at or beyond useful life, especially the deferred design work for Highway W in Burlington, a project that's already been delayed over 20 years and is emblematic of the problems the county faces. But I trust the resp and respect the process and the judgment of the county executive, my fellow supervisors and staff that will make improvements going forward to create a long-term capital replacement plan, a debt capacity policy, and a reserve policy. My hope is that with passing this budget, the sales tax decision has been settled and we can move on with the important work to govern the county with practical solutions united in the reality of the challenges and opportunities before us and not waste our time and efforts on hypothetical talking points, jet GPT recommendations or political rhetoric. Thank you.

Any further [clears throat] comments? Supervisor.

Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, just like to take a moment to thank the county executive, the cabinet, the staff for the countless hours of hard work and thoughtful effort that went into putting this budget and the budget amendments together. Like to thank all the phone calls and emails that I got from the constituents with their concerns that we had. It's been a tough one this year trying to keep things fiscally responsible and still making our residents get the services that they deserve. It's a balance, right? It's been tough and we keep looking forward to ways to reduce costs heading into 2026. I think we're moving in the right direction and continuing to make Rine County an even better place to live. Thank you,

Supervisor Rossi. Stay away from your seat right there.

Thank you, Chairman. Um there's a little bit of information I wanted to present tonight and John is going to help me with that. So um I'm I'm a few of you have asked me, you know, what amendments are you working on? And originally I was working on about 16 of them and I whittle that down to 12 and then I realized, you know, what am I doing? This is uh really not something that makes much sense that one individual supervisor is working on 12 amendments. And to be honest, we'd be here till midnight the way things are going. Maybe I could have omnib bust them down to six, but I digress. Um, what I did instead is I wanted to put together a document that would show all of you, you know, the issue of of our spending. And you could call it a revenue problem, you call it spending problem. I'm just going to present to you what what it is. Um, so I've got a few slides here and they're going to demonstrate what I've I'm calling the proxy levy. And what that is is our one-time and temporary and incremental funding sources over the past few years that have brought us to where we are. So operational growth by reserves 2018 to 2024, Racing County budgeted a minimum of $5 million per year of reserve usage. And I say minimum because some years we went to 10 11 million of reserve usage to balance a budget. 21 to 24 ARPA funds supplement operations and debt service. 25 and 26 new sales tax and increment for second-year revenues fund operations and a portion of debt service. And I say increment because year one is about 60% of what year two. So there's an increment. It's not just the adjustment of the sales tax for inflation. Uh, as it stands, 2027 will be the first year since 2021 without temporary, new, or incremental operational funding sources, barring we do something crazy with opioid funds. Next slide, please.

What this shows is the top line there, the blue line is our total budget expenditure. Um, the orange line is our countywide tax levy. So, the countywide tax levy is the general levy plus our uh uh debts or excuse me, our debt service levy. And then the general levy should be thought of as operational levy. That's the one you need to pay attention to here. Next slide. Oh, excuse me. Before we go to the next slide, um you should see that the difference obviously then is with that total expenditure only a portion then a very small portion relative to total expenditures is covered by our property tax levy. Next slide. Now what this is showing is ARPA reserve usage and sales tax on operations only. And you can see starting in 2014 that we start to slowly taper up and I should say rapidly. 2014 2015 we really start to at 2019 $8 million or 2019 $8 million of reserve usage to balance the budget. Then what happens 2021 ARPA funds hit. So the blue represents ARPA funds and the gray on top then represents budgeted reserve usage. You can see things continue to climb as we get to 2025. The orange what happens? We get the sales tax. So we continue the trend of increased operational spending sustained by means other than the general levy. Next slide please. Um what this one is showing is total ARPA reserves and sales tax use. So capital is included in this one. You'll see there's a 2024 spike and I I believe that one is um uh related to the YDCC. Maybe I could be wrong but the spike in 2024 is relative to a capital expenditure. It's not an operational item but wanted you to see the total use of these types of uh revenues. Next slide please.

So now what we have is I stripped out the um the reserve usage on the left chart and then on the right chart is the general levy and then the general levy as a modified what I'm calling the foxy general levy. So that gray line is the general levy. Remember the operational use of levy funds and the yellow line is what happens when we started introducing ARPA and the sales tax to our operations. Now remember this is the equivalent of what I would say is levy funded operations because this isn't state funded. This isn't federal funds. This isn't grants of some kind. This is this is items that have to get paid through paid by alternative funding. So you can see then that the trend line and that's what that dotted line is. It's an exponential model and it there's a little bit of a bend to it because we start to really ramp up obviously as we get past 2021 and that's our trend right now. Now you'll recall I said earlier in 2027 we will not have incremental or new funding sources. So that top line matters a lot more and I'm going to get to why. Next slide please. Um, this one is our uh countywide levy. So now again, general levy plus capital. So you'll see that again there's that spike in 2024. It's somewhat comparable to what we saw with the uh just the uh general levy. So the operational side of things. So you can just see very comparable trend lines. We're going to I want to get to the uh next slide, but I just wanted to show you this one so you could see that there both of them are going they're moving forward at a very similar rate. Next slide, please. Now, here's where things get interesting. The item on the left is the slide you saw earlier, and the item on the right is the trend line and percentages. So, if you look at the trend line on the left, which is the general levy trend line, and you look at the trend line on

the right, which is the proxy trend line, so it's again, it's our general levy augmented by our additional revenue sources that are that are not going to keep stepping up like what we've seen. The trend line on the augmented side, the one with the percentages, is a little over double the slope of what the one on the left is. That's how much we're growing. That's very important because now we're at this point of how quickly we're growing. We have to maintain that or we have and we have to find additional funding sources. Um, now what I did is I forecasted I believe it's on the next slide if you could John. Oh no, excuse me. I I did another one where I trend line both the uh the u the countywides. So you can see again the countywide levy on the left and the orange and then the augmented or the proxy countywide levy in the blue. Again because of our our fund usage, we we grew and not only in our operations but in our debt service as well and we financed it with these onetime funds or temporary funds except the sales tax which is now permanent fund. Next slide. [snorts] Now what I did here is using percentages and I'll tell you what I did. I took an average of the last seven years of growth. And why seven years? Because that gives us one year before the ARPA funds hit. So, a little bit of stabilization in the numbers here. And I forecasted out 2027 just based off of trends. So, 2027 would be on the gray line, which is the general levy, 3.16%. So, that's how things would work if we just kept going without any additional funds. 2027 is what we're really or the excuse me the yellow line the general levy proxy is what we're really doing.

That's how much money we're going to need to continue growing. And this doesn't even include the salary study in it. That's how much money we're going to need next year. So to do that, we'll have to look at more funds because we won't have the money there in the general levy. Where will we get the money? We'll have to get it from what's left of the sales tax. This year we're putting four now maybe 5 million away for these for the uh debt relief. So that's purely dropping debt that's going to come back then and get used on operations to fund this continued growth. This is a rolling average mind you this 7.08%. If you look really closely, what you'll notice is there's an inverse reaction. When 2022, when the yellow line went up, spiked a little bit, the general levy went down. So, as we were able to use more of these funds to reduce the general levy, all we did was disguise our our our spending. We we used just another source, but we continue to grow. And that's the issue that we're in right now. We are growing at 7%. We will need to continue to find funds to supplement this growth. The general levy is very misleading for what we're trying to do here. Again, general levy is 3.16. That's our operational side of things. What we get from the taxpayers and then apply right to our operations. We're really growing at 7.0. that then each one of those little lines in between represents $2 million. So knocking down $900,000 in expense, that's how dire the situation is and that that really doesn't affect the trend line. It maybe augments us down to, you know, somewhere in the sixes, but and it's going to be a high 6%. But we need to drastically reduce that number. We need to get it to

what we can sustain. we can sustain 3%. Now let's say the sales tax adds 1% on top of that. Maybe we can sustain sustain 4%. There is no scenario where we can maintain what we're doing. All of these ideas where we add lifeguards and other spending and it it'd be great. No one is against the idea. That's the reality. We we can't afford it. So again, add this percentage in my opinion is low because next year add the salary study on top of this. So add a million to that. That wipes out any of the savings that have been presented by the the county executive. And if it's a 3070 split, I mean, then the full salary study is going to be like 1.3 or 1.4 million somewhere around there. If the tax levy portion of it, you know, 250,000 in quarter 4, the whole thing is going to be 1 million our side. So that pretty much tells you where you're at there. I I I can't support this. Um and um I I want to close with a statement if the chairman would be so kind. I won't take more than five minutes.

Um we've told 10 10 and you're running up against your 10, so make it two or three.

I will race through this. Uh last year we were told that we needed to pass a sales tax to sustain operations and that stabilization would follow. The budget before us doesn't fix what's broken. It pushes us deeper into a structural problem. If we pass it as is, even with the executive's amendments, we won't react to a funding disaster. We're creating the next one. Debt and structural imbalance. Debt service has roughly doubled over the last decade. In 2014, the county budgeted about 7.4 million to debt service. By 22, it was about 16.7 million for the le the latest round of borrowing pressures. uh you see in the current cycle and the 2026 budget explicitly shows debt service jumping jumping by 1.7 or 20% due to bonding for the marina 911 radio and public safety projects with only a portion offset by sales tax dollars in the debt fund sales tax is not a cure for overspending by design of the 2026 proposal 16 million of sales sales and use taxes routed operations and 4 million to debt service as property tax relief that structure doesn't reduce spending it props up spending and debt service if other revenue revenues come in soft, we're immediately exposed. That is the case for 2025 in a more direct way as anticipated revenues will be short of budgeted revenues for our sales tax by around $1 million reserves. The budget resumes, the reserves use ramp up while realizing 2.1 million more in sales tax revenues for operations. We cannot allow you reserve usage to creep back up, no matter how it is explained to us. Execution risk. The youth development care center ramps up in the 2026 plan, bringing real service value, but also higher ongoing costs. The budget says operating growth includes the YDCC ramp up plus mandatory software and public safety subscriptions. If our revenues underperform or timing slips, we have no cushion. We already saw a $2 million reduction in anticipated 2025 fines, fees, and for forfeitees related to the YDCC. $2 million.

We need to be much more cautious with our estimated revenues. Meanwhile, recreation and parks and facilities continue to require levy support. And I'll skip the rest of that section in the interest of time. So here that there's a core choice here. Keep kicking the can down the road or get on a corrective course. So here's a constructive path I would support. Send this budget back with instructions to stabilize first. cap fiscal year 2026 2027 gross new bonding and present a debt affordability schedule we can pay down freeze new multi-year tech and equipment commitments or greatly reduce their cost including the Axon 10-year package until a stabilization plan is presented and total cost of ownership is offset in writing or applicable authorized clean spending resolutions for items that are on critical timelines to address that specific issue. protect the sales tax reserve. Oh, excuse me. Um, build protect the sales tax reserve. And I I'd like to note that we are keeping a minimum amount of reserve. We have a policy of 5 to 20 uh 20% for the sales tax to be kept in reserve. We're going with the absolute minimum right now. And that's just a note. Uh, build in the salary study impact so supervisors can properly build in the salary study so supervisors can properly evaluate impact. Prioritize core operations and roads before amenities. Sequence capital. so road maintenance projects are fully funded according to a meaningful paving plan and timeline before alterations and other repair work in county facilities. This budget reflects a significant reduction in road paving. And then lastly, most importantly, halts all new FTE until FTE positions until a dollar for-doll savings is identified or proof of conservative offset revenue generation is identified in writing. Uh last paragraph here promise chairman process matters. We were promised additional budget listening sessions. Supervisor Troier mentioned that and he said sessions when there was one session and I disagree with the evaluation that you

know those four points that were provided number one by my tally and what was put on the boards was roads and that's one of the things that we see getting the least attention. How can our input be given when the process of doing so dissipates? We received an executive amendment after our own amendments were due to be reviewed by the FHR committee. This timeline is unreasonable for so many changes to a 200 plus million spending plan and guarantees mistakes. We need a reset that includes a dialogue between the county executive and board. And then regarding real cost to residents, every bill our residents pay is framed as well this is just a few more dollars and it's just if and how many times has it been presented to us that things are pennies per thousand. These are really just minute differences that people will have to pay. The sum of those few dollars is exactly what they feel. If we pass this budget as written and amended, we will build upon the problem for our residents. And I'd like to quote Benjamin Franklin, beware of little expenses. A small leap will sink a great ship. We have this second chance. Last year was our first to use the sales tax to dig us out of a hole. Please do not use it to make the hole bigger. I'm not sure we will have another opportunity. There's no better time than now to start down a better path. Let's send this budget back, fix the structure, and adopt a sustainable budget our residents can afford. Thank you.

Thank you. Any further comments? Supervisor.

Got it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and um to all of our supervisors here. Um personal thanks and appreciation for all of your efforts and putting this out. Um to our department heads and staff members. Um I'd be remiss, of course, if I didn't highlight all of your efforts as well. I I think what I wanted to just close with for myself was that I remembered last year when we talked about the sales tax levy, the sales tax and the discussion at that time was we had a $17 million shortfall. We were going to get $20 million potentially from an annualized revenue base. Well, ultimately what that told us was we were going to stay flat. We basically were going to be just able to cover what we had uh from an expense standpoint. This year's budget, excuse me, next year's budget that we have now gone through reviewing at nauseium basically is saying to us that we're still barely covering our cost despite having $20 million. In fact, candidly, we had to go into the reserves to make it work. So, here's what my thought is. Um, along with Supervisor Toddier, um, I also happen to feel that we have a revenue challenge. The challenge with the revenue right now though is going to be put back on the department heads because one thing for sure is I don't know how the vote will go tonight. But I do know this that going into the new year I'm fairly confident that we are all going to be looking at things a little differently as it relates to approvals andor what we're going to commit to going forward because to um Supervisor Rossy's comments, what we're doing is not sustainable. We are going to continue to get further and further down the rabbit hole without a way to get out. And so it is going to take some tough decisions that unfortunately will not be popular.

And yet at the same time for us to be able to effectively operate the county. Um I would offer from my own humble opinion it will take some of those tough decisions that are going to actually be able to get us there. I think our county executive has done a wonderful job trying to help prepare us, coordinate, get us here. Um, but he also knows that there have been some things along this process that we in fact could have improved upon ourselves. And so we are going to learn from that going forward. And so from that standpoint, Mr. Chairman, thank you also for your leadership and vice chairman. Um, this is never an easy process to go through. Thank you for the opportunity,

Supervisor Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I do want to thank the county executive, the new guy on the block, the new guy to government for uh really working hard to come up with a budget that meets our needs and is still fiscally responsible. I especially want to thank him for his amendment which brought the levy down into a more reasonable um increase. And I have to say it again, others have said it, but with all of this additional sales tax money, uh we're still in a challenging situation. County Executive Delgrave during his last months with us said the check engine light is on. It is still on. Um some of our departments presented budgets that went down, but 14 of our departments presented budgets budgets that went up 5% or more. As others have said, this is not sustainable. And as I said last year during the sales tax debate, and I will repeat, are we doing more than we can afford? And it doesn't do any good, highest respect for my colleague uh Supervisor Troutier, but it doesn't do any good to compare to other counties because we have what we have and we have to deal with what we've spent in the past and what we can spend in the future and as as I see it, there's a lot of tough decisions ahead.

Any further comments while I get the last last say tonight? First of all, I want to be proud of all you supervisors, staff, county executive. With this type of a budget, we could have been screaming at each other for weeks. We wouldn't be talking, but we all acted professionally. We don't agree. That's that that's normal. But I'm really proud of us all in this room. County Executive. You did a good job. You got it here to us. We may not agree all that what the spending is. We've had numerous speakers tonight talk about it. We're all going to pitch in and work together. Staff, thanks for coming. Good lord. You know, we were here countless hours, probably 15, 20 hours in this room and a lot of you were here. You know, thank you. Thank you for the citizens listening in and the people who called us are constituents because, you know, sometimes county government is over there. What What does the county supervisor do? Well, when people call us and talk to us, we get an idea what they want. It's not that shock on December 15th when they get their tax bill. So with that, I call the question. Roll call vote. Supervisor Capellian, how do you vote?

Yes. Supervisor Shakur, how do you vote?

Supervisor Shakur. Yes.

Thank you. Motion carries and let us document this Okay, thank you. Moving on with our agenda, we are now to the group of twothirds majority vote. That would be resolution number 2025-46 by Finance and Human Resources Committee authorizing a multi-year contract with Axon Enterprise LLC for the amount of 17,29,223 and resolution number 2025-49 by Finance and Human Resources Committee authorizing the acceptance of a port security grant program grant in the amount of $412,500 and transfer of funds between the sheriff's office and the capital 2026. six budgets.

Supervisor Troutier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, in regards to resolution 2025-46, this refers to a 10-year contract with Axion Enterprise broken down as follows. Years 1 through five at a cost of $1.6 6 million per year and then years 6 through 10 $1.9 million a year. What does this involved over the 10 years? I have two individuals that could break it down into details and they are Sheriff Schmealing and Captain Evans here to speak about those about the contract with Axion Enterprise over the next 10 years. Captain Evans, thank you.

Do we have a motion? I I'll make a motion. I'm sorry.

Motion is seconded. Sorry. So, I've spoke at length to I think everybody here about this contract. This covers everything from our body cameras to our tasers. The training that it takes to use the new tasers. It does a complete change out of our UAV systems, uh, which has been a priority, I think, for some of the people on this board from Chinese-made drones to Americanmade. Um, it pushes us into the future with what we're working with. It also puts us on a 10-year contract with uh with a agreement for all of the things that are produced for AI being included in that contract. It has warranty protection so that every piece of equipment that we have is warrantied. It's also guaranteed for when the upgrade comes out, it replaces the equipment with the newest, latest, greatest. This was intentionally negotiated by Captain Getsy and I to be as holistic as possible. It's not everything that they have. It is the things that we need, but it is intentional in the way that we did it so that we don't have to come back and ask for more. We wanted to try to be very careful that we negotiated the best price for the best term without having to come back and keep asking. If there's any questions, I'm happy to take them.

Any questions? Supervisor Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I I think one question we all have is what, if any, alternatives do we have? And I'm not, you know, I'm not being smartass about it, but can you speak to that a little bit?

So, we've had a long-term contract or long-term relationship with Axon. Um, I know there's there's been a lot of questions and, uh, I'll be honest with you, when I gave the initial presentation to the sheriff, uh, we had it scheduled for about 45 minutes for me to present to him. I kept him in the room for two hours. This is an incredibly complex. Any of you that looked at the the contract for this is an incredibly complex contract. Um there is not a good alternative to do everything that this does. That is the simplest answer. Um one of the things that I know came up and it was asked to me over the past couple weeks was there's a difference between the storage. Um if you look at the apples to apples, there's unlimited storage. That's everything that comes off of this. Everything that comes from my body camera is unlimited storage. The problem is, like you guys know, most crimes happen digitally now. Whether that's the information that we're taking out of your car from the black box in your car after we we seize your vehicle or if it's the information coming off your cell phone, all of that digital evidence has to go somewhere. And we are bursting at the seams with digital evidence. This contract has unlimited third-party storage. So that allows us to store all of the digital evidence that we collect from other places within uh compliant storage systems so that we're not having to continually go back and and buy more storage. I had to do that once this year already to buy storage for IAC, our internet crimes unit. Um when I originally started quoting this about two and a half years ago, when they first showed me my storage costs and I broke it down, I immediately left and called Dave Huber with it and said, "We've got to be able to beat this. there is no way I'm paying this amount of money for this storage. I won't feel right coming to the board asking you guys to spend this. Let's beat it. He went and talked to CDW. We got several different quotes. And to do the storage the way they do it, to have it secured and to meet compliance, it was like four times the cost. This this is an

expensive an expensive ask, but it does solve a lot of our problems and it does do it the most effectively and the most efficiently. Any further questions? Supervisor Spencer. Thank you. Um, so I have a question about the third party storage and if it allows them to have uh access to our data or do they need permission from us to

so third party means in this situation it means that it's something not created by an Axon device. So the third party does not mean that they have access to our storage. It means that we have access to store things that were created by a different vendor, a different thing. We don't host any of the storage ourselves. So, they have no access to our data. All of that is hosted within Axon's cloud and it has a lot of security measures and features to it. It's all hosted within the Microsoft GovCloud. Um, so all of that is managed by them. We pay for that service. They take care of managing that for us. We pay for it in this amount. This is it's part of Yes, it's part of the whole contract. Yes, ma'am.

Any further questions? This is a twothirds majority vote. Um, do we want to work them together or take them separate? Mr. Chairman, I'm requesting that we work them together, please. Okay, then we'll go on to the next one.

And I'd like to go on to the next one. Thank you. Resolution 2025-49. I I I want to just comment about the persistence of the individuals that were responsible for this federal grant. Um it's been going on uh for the last four to five years to obtain this grant for a water safety patrol boat. um where the grant amount is $412,500 and the match is $137,500. Um I commend uh the sheriff's staff, the sheriff and uh I believe it's Captain Evans who worked primarily on this and if you'd like him to step up again, I'm sure he would be happy to speak on this. Captain Evans, thank you.

Absolutely. Uh so I know that some of the questions out there have been uh related to the the match and whether or not the ask on this uh the 1.4 million over the two years here is eligible. Our interpretation, everything that we've read along with corp counsel and with Travis and his team for the grant is that we believe it is. However, with the government shutdown, we have not been able to get that clear answer directly from them. So, I can say that this person in the federal government said it's okay, but everything that we know of grants and everything that we've done, we believe this isn't a problem. Uh, this does have to go to RFP. Uh, there's a lot of work to do on this project yet. What I can tell you is I've talked to five different vendors. Uh, two of them I received hard quotes from for what a boat that would match capabilities of our 41 ft 1971 Anton, what that would cost. And that's how I landed in this price range. Um, I did a lot of homework, a lot of research. There's a lot left to do. Uh but that's this uh this $400,000 grant will offset then that total cost over the next two years.

Supervisor Shakur has a question. No, no, no, no, no, sir. No, sir. Well, that's what they handed me a note. Q. No, no, I don't have a question. Okay, Supervisor Horth. Yes. Thank you, Captain. Um m Mr. Chairman, I had a question regarding the expense now and I I apologize. I want to go back to the one you did previously if that's okay. Um what you had talked about and I thought there was 1.6 million for the year. Is that what the cost was going to be?

Just so I have a sense of being able to review these types of questions going forward. Where does that number appear in your budget for next year? So that would be in our body cam line. So before it would show up there, I believe there's a million dollar placeholder there currently. Well, you currently have 1.5 million in your hand. It's 1.55. So I I don't know how there was an error there. The the total the total cost per year is 1.55. Okay. So this right now is $50,000 short in your budget before we even start the year. I I I'm sorry. My apologies. I've got you at a disadvantage. I'm looking at the number right now, which is why I pulled it up.

Sure. And and these are the kinds of questions I was referring to earlier as it relates to us approving things going forward and making sure that there's actual line items that reflect what the amounts are. But right now, we've already started with a $50,000 negative spot, if you will. Sure. So, okay. Thank you for answering the question. Any further questions? Supervisor Cole, what is the life expectancy of the new boat? I'm I'm guessing with switches and micro switches versus cables and old engines. So, I I've had initial the expected lifespan.

Sure. I've had initial conversations with uh four of the five vendors on life expectancy. One of them came late into this whole mix and I haven't talked with them yet about what what life expectancy is. Um there is a cost to replacing some of the parts. Some of them are more expensive than others. So, we're looking at what that would weigh out for for our decision-m, but I would expect it to be 20 plus years. Um, there is repower that can be done depending on how those engines, how we mount them, what we do with them. Depending on how how this whole process works, it will affect it. Obviously, there's a lot of different styles out there, but I think that I'd be pretty confident in saying 20 plus. I can I can tell you tell you I had a conversation with uh past county executive Jacobson and she said something like you still got that vote [laughter] cuz she she I believe she was on the board or when when you when you received it from the Coast Guard. So any further questions?

Supervisor Spencer. Thank you. So my question is, is there any chance that we could find a very good used boat instead of a brand new? So these are very purposebuilt [clears throat] vessels. Um it's it's very different than what a hobby boat would be. No, I'm not talking about a hobby.

I get that. I I understand. But what ends up happening is a lot of times people buy these because they purpose build them for their jurisdiction and their work and then they they wear them out before they want to get rid of them. And at this point when you're looking at that the rebuild, the repower and the maintenance costs that would go into an aluminum vessel like this, it likely would be more cost um more costs in the long run than it would to just buy it new and then have it for the lifespan. I can research that further. I've looked at it a little bit, but every time I've researched it, it is pretty cost prohibitive and doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind at least to go down that track. Any further questions? All right. Well, I'm going to call a question then. And this is a 2/3 majority vote. So, John,

Supervisor Kellian, how do you vote? Yes. And supervisor Shakur has texted. He is also voting yes. Oops.

You're you're an affirmative vote. Okay. Supervisor Mynolds is yes and supervisor Rossi is abstain.

Okay. Okay. And then our last category for second readings this evening is our threequarter majority vote. That would be resolution number 2025-51 by Finance and Human Resources Committee authorizing the issuance and establishing parameters for the sale of not to exceed $550,000 in taxable general obligation promisory notes series 2026B and resolution number 2025-52 by Finance and Human Resources Committee authorizing the issuance and establishing parameters for the sale of not to exceed $13,930,000 in general obligation promisory notes 2026A.

Supervisor Troutier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, just to summarize both of these resolutions, which I'm requesting that we take care of both of them on the vote are to establish parameters. This is not borrowing the money. Um, and I have um, director, director Otto, director Zimmer here to explain what the 550 and the 13.9 million are for. Thank you, chairman. Need a motion. I motion.

Motion's been made and seconded by Pricer. Proceed.

Uh, thank you. Just wanted to know um for some of the newer supervisors who may not understand what the parameters resolution is um as the body voted to adopt the 2026 budget tonight and that included 14ish million of bonded debt financed projects. These are the parameters resolutions to allow the county to be able to actually do the debt financing for it. In prior years before I became director, we used to make sure that the sale bless you. Make sure that the sale was the night of a county board meeting so that the board could approve those bids and ex accept the the sale itself. Our financial advisors recommended that we switch to a parameters resolution which allows the body with a greater supermajority vote to um set the interest rate and the dollar amount not to exceed. and then we can look at the market and make sure that we're going out at the most advantageous time for the county. We did just sell a bond issuance last week. We had nine biders, which is the most that I've ever seen, and we got a 3.77% interest rate. And then the next day, the Feds cut the rate. So I do anticipate that the parameters listed in here at 6% for the tax exempt and 7% for the taxable will come in a lot less than what we're setting the parameters. But we'll work with financial advisors um if this is approved to make sure that we're going at the most advantageous time for the county.

Any questions? Supervisor Cole. So, but this is long-term bonding, right? This is long-term bonding. So, the interest rate cut doesn't really affect the long-term bonding then it does. Yeah. Long-term bonding is off of the 10-year note uh the Fed note, right?

Um this will be a 20-year note and in it we're sending the interest rate at six or 7% depending or 6% for the tax exempt. some of the things within that tax exempt will be a fiveyear and we'll just set our amateurization schedule to be able to pay those off sooner. But yes, we do see an interest rate decrease when the feds cut their their rates. Okay, I'm losing adjustment with that. Supervisor Pricer,

if I can add to that, uh, Supervisor Cole, the bond fund managers will just consider the risk premium of buying a municipal bond from us relative to government treasuries. So, if the Feds lower rates, then they if assuming the risk premium is basically the same, it just shifts down what they require, you know, from our bonds when they buy them. Supervisor Verance. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did our So, did our investment folks have they said that it will go down based on what the feds did or not?

I met with them this this morning actually um to talk about arbitrage management of these bond proceeds because for the first time in my time here, we could face arbitrage where we are earning more in interest income than we are paying an interest expense. and they have a port, excuse me, they have a program that will help manage that for us. Nobody has a crystal ball, but they do anticipate that the feds will cut the rate again in December. And if not in December, very likely in January.

January. And also, did um when when when do we lock into this or if they do go down, we can float down with it in in some cases or not?

No, we would look at the market. Yeah, we would look at the market. We look at the federal calendar to figure out what the most advantageous time to go. We also look at when other municipalities are going out to market so that we're not saturating like we'll become the star the day of that. Um we do typically bond just for cash needs in July or August. Um but that will depend on what what's going on with interest rates. I mean, I'm no I'm by no means an expert on any of this, but from an interest rate from a from a housing interest rate perspective, it was my understanding that they were expecting a half percent cut and you only got a quarter% cut. And actually, residential interest rates went up after that 4% cut last week.

Yeah, these are general obligation promisary notes. So, um yeah, different. Any further questions? Well, this is a threequarters majority vote. I'll call the question. [music] Supervisor Caprellian. Yes. Supervisor Shakur about a battery power.

Yeah. And he supervisor Shakur is also voting yes and that motion carries. And motion carries. Item number 12, reconsideration of resolutions and/or ordinances ordinances from previous meetings andor action on vetos. There are no items. Reconsideration of and or notice of intent to reconsider resolation resolutions and ordinances. There is no notice. Informationational reports. There are none on tonight's agenda.

Item number 15, miscellaneous business announcements or oral reports. Chair Supervisor Wishaw.

Thank you, Chair. Um, I have actually just more of a comment I want to make about um, statement that was made in public comment tonight um, about my community. Um, I take strong offense the statement made during public comment and implying that Burlington is a racist community. I would encourage the gentleman to first focus on the challenges within his own community, including the troubling proficiency scores within RUSD before casting judgment on my community, which he knows absolutely nothing about. Thank you.

And then I've got one last weekend with the uh FFA, Future Farmers of America, uh Benton Indianapolis. And I have three students from well, not any more students. They're 20 year olds that got the American farmer degree. Brook Weber, Maya Wineoff, and Nolan Elen. Congratulate them. It's uh from freshman to be about 21 years old, and that's the highest degree you can get in the state. There was 75,000 future farmers of America and agro businessmen in Indianapolis. Supervisor Spencer,

thank you. I think it was honorable of uh Supervisor QA Shakur to attend this tonight when he's away at his daughter's for his daughter's wedding. And I just want to uh QA if you're still on to extend um to your daughter a lovely wedding and a lovely wife uh life thereafter.

Supervisor Caprellian.

Thank you so much. Uh so county board uh supervisors uh you should have received an email from Wendy. Thank you Wendy that it is youth and governance nomination time. So I do encourage those who are mentors to reach out to your mentees and encourage uh whatever kind of support you can give them to uh reach out to um whoever necessary within their schools. So support that and uh go to that email that Wendy did send out and it's a simple Google form that you can nominate youth or pass along to those who work within youth that are either freshman, sophomore or juniors in a rine county high school. Uh, so this is the time, the deadline is December 19th, but I encourage now because schools start getting really crazy as we ramp up into December as it becomes uh closing out that before the holidays. So, kids are either doing finals or um any other work before the holidays. So, I wanted to say that and I didn't get the opportunity chairman before. So, I still hope it's okay for me just to put a thanks out to uh the county executive with his now under a year um on the budget for bringing this forward and enduring this very difficult process. I know for a newly elected person it can be quite challenging and things especially when you are somebody who u functions from the heart a lot of these things can feel very personal uh but this is a process uh the budget it's not something that

all of a sudden these numbers come fresh to us one year at a time this is a builtup of many years of decisions and I also want to put a thanks out to all the heads of the departments, those working for the county. You know, we do trust in you uh all the other times of the year and sometimes this process may seem like we have lost trust in your decision-m when you are presenting something as if we're questioning that decision. Um it's just the ugliness of the process. uh we do trust you and uh we sure appreciate that you are working for us and helping make Rine County, you know, just a great place to not only work but to live and uh for the county supervisors this year have given me so much more to consume during this process. It has been great. It's expanded my mind and uh I think next year is going to be a beautiful collaborative year of um the county board and administration, the county executive. So I look forward to seeing what that process looks like. Thank you,

Supervisor Hopkins. Yes, I have a birthday this week on Wednesday. I turned 52. Um I appreciate the county and the executive always acknowledging that. So I don't take any thing for granted this time of my life to you know celebrate. So you you were worried you'd have to bring cake if we went past midnight. I would do it. Yeah [laughter] are coming. So, but yeah, we celebrated