Zoning Hearing Master - Regular Meeting

NIGEL JOSEPH: WELCOME, EVERYONE, TO THE FEBRUARY 9TH, 2026 REGULAR MEETING OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CITY/COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION. WE THANK YOU FOR ATTENDING THIS MEETING. YOUR COMMENTS AND PARTICIPATION ARE ENCOURAGED. FOR THOSE ATTENDING IN-PERSON AND WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM PLEASE SIGN THE REGISTER AT THE REAR OF THE ROOM AND TURN OFF ANY DEVICES THAT MAY BE A DISTRACTION. ALL ONLINE PARTICIPANTS IN THE MEETING WILL BE MUTED UNTIL IT IS THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. PLANNING COMMISSIONERS SHOULD UNMUTE THEMSELVES TO INDICATE THEY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK. PLEASE BE SURE TO STATE YOUR NAME AT THE BEGINNING FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CLERK. THERE LLC OPPORTUNITIES TO PROVIDE COMMENTS. WHPLEASE WAIT UNTIL THE CHAIR CALLS ON YOU TO BEGIN SPEAKING. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADHERE TO THE TIME LIMITS. IF ANYONE HAS DIFFICULTIES WATCHING VIA HTV AND WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE COMMENTS FOR THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT HEARING, PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO PLANNER@PLANCOM.ORG. FOR ACTION ITEMS, THE MEETING WILL BE CONDUCTED AS FOLLOWS. THE AGENDA ITEM WILL BE INTRODUCED, STAFF WILL GIE THEIR PRESENTATION WITH A 15-MINUTE TIME LIMIT, THE APPLICANT WILL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A PRESENTATION WITH A 15-MINUTE TIME LIMIT, FOLLOWING PRESENTATIONS, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC MAY ADDRESS THE PLANNING COMMISSION WHEN RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIR. PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE HEARD FOR THREE MINUTES PER PERSON. THE APPLICANT WILL BE AFFORDED A THREE-MINUTE PERIOD FOR REBUTTAL OR RESPONSE. PLANNING COMMISSIONERS WILL ASK QUESTIONS. PUBLIC COMMENT WILL BE CLOSED. UPON A MOTION, SECOND AND DISCUSSION A VOTE WILL BE TAKEN. WITH THAT INTRODUCTION, I'D LIKE TO ASK COMMISSION JEMISON TO LEAD US IN THE INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. IF YOU ARE ABLE, PLEASE RISE.

HEAVENLY FATHER, WE COME BEFORE YOU TODAY WITH PRAISE FOR YOUR MIGHTY POWER AND GUIDANCE. THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY. AND THANK YOU, TOO, FOR THE MANY BLESSINGS IN OUR LIVES, FOR OUR GREAT COUNTRY AND FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE IN FREEDOM. WE ASK YOUR BLESSINGS ON OUR LEADERS AND WE ASK THAT YOU GIVE EACH ONE OF US HERE TODAY THE WISDOM TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES SO THAT OUR DECISIONS WILL BE THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AMEN. NIGEL JOSEPH: AMEN. GROUP: I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COMMISSION JEMISON. WITH THAT, I WILL SEND IT OVER TO THE CLERK TO PLEASE CALL ROLL. GOOD AFTERNOON. BOWDEN. HERE. CARDENAS. HERE. CONA. HERE. JEMISON. HERE. KUGLER. HERE. LINKOUS. HERE. LOUK. SIEBEN. SIENK. HERE. BERRY. ORTON.

LAURIE BELLANGIO FOR ORTON. JOSEPH. NIGEL JOSEPH: HERE. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES, PLAN AMENDMENTS JANUARY 12th, 2026. IS THERE A MOTION? MOTION FROM COMMISSION JEMISON. COMMISSIONER CONA SECONDED THAT MOTION. SECOND.

NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER CONA GOT THE SECOND. MOTION BY COMMISSION JEMISON, SECOND TO THAT MOTION OF APPROVAL BY COMMISSIONER CONA. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS BEFORE WE TAKE OUR VOTE? WILL ALL SIG THEIR AGREEMENT BY SAYING AYE? [AYES] THOSE OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. ALL RIGHT. OUR FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS TODAY IS A PRESENTATION OF A PLAQUE OF APPRECIATION PRESENTED BY OUR FORMER COMMISSIONER TONY RODRIGUEZ FOR HIS TIME SERVING ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. COMCOMMISSIONER RODRIGUEZ IS HEE WITH US. YOU CAN SAY A FEW WORDS AFTER I READ OFF YOUR PLAQUE. SAYS PRESENTED TO JAMES TONY RODRIGUEZ. I DIDN'T KNOW THE JAMES PART. FANCY PANTS. [LAUGHTER] ALL RIGHT. EX OFFICIO MEMBER REPRESENTING MacDILL AIR FORCE BASE AND HIS SERVICE WAS FROM AUGUST 2005 TO MARCH 2007 AND THEN AGAIN RECENTLY FROM APRIL 2016 THROUGH DECEMBER 2025. SO HE'S SERVED ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION BOARD FOR QUITE A BIT OF TIME THERE.

I HAVE HAD A GOOD RUN. NIGEL JOSEPH: IN RECOGNITION AND APPRECIATION OF YOUR EXEMPLARY SERVICE ON THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CITY/COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION AND VISION, LEADERSHIP AND COMMIT TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN OUR COMMUNITY. SO AGAIN, CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN, COMMISSIONER RODRIGUEZ. IF YOU'D LIKE TO SAY A COUPLE OF WORDS.

THANK YOU. THIS HAS BEEN JUST AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY. I HAVE WORKED WITH A LOT OF GREAT FOLKS. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BETTER WORKING, REALLY MORE UNBIASED BOARD. AND WE HAVE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL CYCLES OF FOLKS IN THE TIME I HAVE BEEN HERE. BUT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN EVEN KEELED. THINGS ARE DONE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITIZENS OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AND IT'S BEEN A GREAT EXPERIENCE FOR ME. LEAVING YOU IN ABLE HANDS WITH COMMISSIONER BERRY REPRESENTING MacDILL AIR FORCE BASE NOW. [LAUGHTER] BUT THANK YOU ALL FOR KIND OF INCLUDING ME IN THIS. AND LIKE I SAID, IT'S BEEN A GREAT RUN AND WHO KNOWS IF JERALD NEEDS A SUBSTITUTE ONE DAY, YOU MIGHT SEE ME AGAIN HELPING OUT. BUT THANK YOU ALL. IT'S BEEN GREAT. [APPLAUSE]

LET'S TAKE A PICTURE. OKAY. THANK YOU ALL.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS PUBLIC INPUT AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE SIGN UP FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA. SO WE WILL MOVE TO OUR ACTION ITEMS. AND OUR FIRST ACTION ITEM IS 4A, TEMPLE TERRACE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE LDC TEXT AMENDMENT SECTION 14-984 PERMITTED SIGNS. AND THE PRESENTER IS YENEKA MILLS. MIC.

GOOD AFTERNOON, YENEKA MILLS PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF. I'M HERE TO INTRODUCE ALISA LEFGSTONE. SHE'S WITHIN PRESENTED THE AMENDMENT REGARDING PERMITTED SIGNAGE. SINCE THIS IS AN ACTION ITEM FOR YOU ALL TODAY, AFTER HER PRESENTATION, I'LL COME BACK AND PROVIDE PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF FINDING.

GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS. I'M ALISSA LEVINGSTONE SENIOR PLANNER WITH THE CITY OF TEMPLE TERRACE. I'M HERE TO PRESENT PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENTS TO OUR LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REGARDING SIGN REGULATIONS. THIS AMENDMENT PERTAINS TO SECTION 12-984, PERMITTED SIGNS. MODIFYING MATRI MATRICES 3, 4, D 6. CURRENTLY, THESE MATRICES RESTRICT BUILDINGS TO ONLY ONE WALL SIGN. THIS CREATES AD ISSUE FOR STRUCTURES ON CORNER LOTS, WHICH ARE LIMITED TO A SINGLE WALL SIGN DESPITE HAVING MULTIPLE STREET FRONTAGES. UNDER THE PROPOSED CHANGES, TWO WALL SIGNS WILL BE PERMITTED ON CORNER LOTS, PROVIDED THAT THEY MEET THE CONDITIONS OF FOOTNOTE "X" WHICH STATES ON CORNER LOTS, A BUILDING OCCUPYING THE CORNER MAY BE PERMITTED A SECOND WALL SIGN, PROVIDED THAT EACH OF THE TWO WALL SIGNS IS LOCATED ON A DIFFERENT STREET FACING FACADE. THANK YOU.

PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF REVIEWED THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE PERMITTED SIGN REGULATION AND SIGNED THAT THE LDC TEXT AMENDMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GOALS, OBJECTIVES AND POLICIES OF THE TEMPLE TERRACE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SPECIFICALLY THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH LAND USE OBJECTIVE 8.5 AND POLICY 8.5.3 WHICH REQUIRES THAT ALL LAND DEVELOPMENT APPROVALS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AS WELL AS STATE LAW. ADDITIONALLY, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH LAND USE POLICY 5.5.2 UNDER THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN SECTION. THIS ENCOURAGES HIGH QUALITY DESIGN THROUGH THE CITY'S LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE STANDARDS AS RELATES TO SIGNAGE, LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING. BASED ON THAT REVIEW, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION FIND THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT CONSISTENT AND FORWARD RECOMMENDATION TO THE TEMPLE TERRACE CITY COUNCIL.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE SIGN UP FOR THE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ONE SO I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSIONS. NOT SEEING A LOT OF EXCITEMENT. THEN I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ONE AND OPEN IT UP TO MOTIONS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS. COMMISSIONER LINKOUS. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO FIND TEXT AMENDMENT SECTION PERMITTED SIGNS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SECOND.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION OF CONSISTENCY FINDING BY COMMISSIONER LINKOUS. A SECOND TO THAT MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KUGLER. ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS, COMMISSIONERS, BEFORE WE TAKE OUR VOTE? NOT SEEING ANY, ALL SIGNIFY AGREEMENT BY SAYING AYE. [AYES] OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. ALL RIGHT. NEXT UP ON THE AGENDA WE HAVE ACTION ITEM 4B, UNINCORPORATED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY EVALUATION OF URBAN SERVICE AREA AND ALTERNATIVES AND THE PRESENTER IS MELISSA DICKENS.

GOOD AFTERNOON, PLANNING COMMISSION. ONE MOMENT WHILE I GET THE PRESENTATION PULLED UP. MELISSA DICKENS PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF. ALL RIGHT. AGAIN, THIS IS THE EVALUATION OF THE URBAN SERVICE AREA AND ALTERNATIVES FOR UNINCORPORATED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. THIS IS AN ACTION ITEM. THERE IS NOT A RESOLUTION THAT IS BEING PROVIDED, BUT RATHER THERE IS A LETTER FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION TO SEND TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IF YOU ALL SHOULD CHOOSE. THAT LETTER OUTLINES THE ITEMS THAT ARE CONTAINED WITHIN THIS AGENDA PACKET AS WELL AS ASKS FOR SUPPORT FOR FUNDING AND STAFF RESOURCES FROM THE COUNTY TO LOOK AT IT. AND A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THIS ITEM, THIS ITEM WAS BROUGHT UP AT BOGUS THE NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS. THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION AMONGST THE BOARD MEMBERS. AND THE RESOLUTION OF THAT ITEM WAS THAT PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF SHOULD COME BACK IN FEBRUARY AND PRESENT AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT ALL WOULD NEED TO BE LOOKED AT TO ASSESS THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, EXPLORE POTENTIAL ALTERNATIVES THAT COULD BE A MODIFICATION OR TWEAK TO THE EXISTING POLICY, THE EXISTING POLICY COULD REMAIN AS-IS. REMOVAL OF THE URBAN SERVICE AREA AND A NEW TOOL OR A HYBRID APPROACH. AND ULTIMATELY, STAFF WANTS TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS CONTINUED ALIGNMENT WITH THE COMMUNITY, WITH THE GROWTH THAT'S CURG AND THAT WE ARE PLANNING FOR INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS. NEXT SLIDE. I'M SORRY, I'M DOING IT. I'M USED TO COMMUNITY MEETINGS THESE DAYS. OKAY. A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THIS. THE URBAN SERVICE AREA WAS FIRST ESTABLISHED IN 1993. ORIGINALLY WE DID GO BACK, THANK

YOU TO DIEGO GUERRA ON OUR TEAM FOR PULLING THE OLD FILES. AND THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF THIS TOOL WAS TO COORDINATE GROWTH WITH INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH IS VERY MUCH AN INFRASTRUCTURE PLANNING TOOL. THE INTENT WAS TO LIMIT THE COST OF PROVIDING INFRASTRUCTURE AND SERVICES, INSURE THE EFFICIENT USE OF LAND IN THE UNINCORPORATED COUNTY, ENSURE THERE WAS ADEQUATE LAND FOR AGRICULTURE, PRESERVE LIFESTYLE CHOICES SO FOLKS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY HAD AN OPTION OF WHETHER TO LIVE IN AN URBAN, SUBURBAN OR RURAL CONTEXT. AND THE URBAN SERVICE AREA CAN BE AMENDED OR EXPANDED. THERE IS CRITERIA WITHIN THE FUTURE LAND USE SECTION ABOUT HOW THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE. IT'S IN POLICY 1.1.9. THESE ARE ALSO INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET. THESE ARE STAFF'S DEFINITIONS OF BOTH THE URBAN SERVICE AREA AND THE RURAL AREA. THEY ARE VERY BROAD. THIS IS NOT THE ADOPTED DEFINITION SO I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. REALLY WE WANTED TO HAVE SOMETHING FOR YOU ALL TO REFERENCE THAT WAS STRAIGHTFORWARD, THAT THESE ARE -- EXCUSE ME, INTENDED TO BE THE PRIMARY AREAS FOR GROWTH. THE URBAN SERVICE AREA WHERE THERE IS EXISTING PUBLIC SERVICES TYPICALLY WITHIN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA THESE ARE HIGHER LAND USE DENSITIES AND INTENSITIES AND CERTAIN INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR DEVELOPMENT. WITHIN THE RURAL AREA, THOSE ARE AREAS THAT ARE INTENDED TO PROVIDE FOR AGRICULTURAL USES, RURAL RESIDENTIAL, AND NATURAL AREAS. THESE TYPICALLY HAVE LOWER LAND USE DENSITIES AND INTENSITIES AND INFRASTRUCTURE IS LIMITED. SO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHERE WE ARE TODAY, IN THE YOU UNINCORPOD COUNTY, THIS CIRCLES INCLUDES THE TAMPA SERVICE AREA,

UNINCORPORATED COUNTY, 228,500 ACRES. AND THAT IS SHOWN ON THE MAP WITHIN THE BLUE LINE, SO ALL THAT WHITE AREA THERE, IT ALSO INCLUDES BALM AND WIMAUMA JUST ADDED TO THE URBAN SERVICE AREA. THERE'S ALSO THE RURAL AREA IDENTIFIED IN GREEN OUTSIDE OF THE LINE. AND THEN THE TWO URBAN EXPANSION AREAS WITH LITTLE MANATEE SOUTH AND I-4, WHICH ARE ABOUT 47,000 ACRES, THOSE ARE CURRENTLY UNDER STUDY TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE WOULD BE A PLANNING FOR AN URBAN EXPANSION AREA. IF IT IS DETERMINED THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE, WHERE AN URBAN EXPANSION AREA OR URBAN SERVICE AREA WOULD BE CREATED. BECAUSE THIS TOOL HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR 33 YEARS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S VERY HEAVILY INTEGRATED INTO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. WE ALL SEE IT HERE. OUR STAFF, THIS BOARD THROUGH AMENDMENTS OR CHANGES TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, PLAN AMENDMENTS, REZONINGS. BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS INTEGRATED SIGNIFICANTLY INTO THE COUNTY'S INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS. IT ALSO PLAYS A ROLE IN REGIONAL PROJECTIONS FOR FOLKS LIKE TAMPA BAY WATER. AND INFRASTRUCTURE PLANNING AND RESPONSE TIME AS WELL AS MAINTENANCE. AND THEN BECAUSE OF THAT, IT PLAYS A ROLE IN THE COUNTY'S FISCAL PLANNING, BUDGETING, AND FEE STRUCTURES. FOR EXAMPLE, MOBILITY FEES. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT THIS IS BASED ON PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE ALL IT INTERFACES WITHIN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. THERE WOULD NEED TO BE FURTHER COORDINATION WITH HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY STAFF TO REFINE SOME OF THE CONCEPTS, BOTH HERE AND IN THE PROPOSED SCOPE. BUT FOR AS AN EXAMPLE, THE URBAN SERVICE AREA IS REFERENCED A LITTLE OVER 100 TIMES IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND OVER 300 TIMES IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE. SO THAT'S WHERE WE SEE IT THE

MOST, BUT IT ALSO IS INTEGRATED INTO OTHER PLANNING PROCESSES. AND THIS SLIDE IS INTENDED FOR VISUAL PURPOSES ONLY, BUT IT'S JUST TO SHOW HOW THINGS ARE INTERRELATED WITH RESPECT TO THE URBAN SERVICE AREA. AND YOUR STAFF IS LOOKING AT A THREE-PHASED APPROACH. THIS WOULD REQUIRE CONSULTANT ASSISTANCE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE THINK WE REALLY WOULD NEED AN OUTSIDE EXPERT ON IF WE WERE TO EVALUATE IT. WE DO HAVE THE CURRENT PHASE WHICH ARE THE UEA STUDIES IN LITTLE MANATEE SOUTH AND I-4. AND THEN A THREE-PHASED APPROACH TO LOOK AT THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, IDENTIFICATION OF THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVES, DETERMINING A PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE, AND THEN EXECUTING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS. AND I'M GOING TO GO INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON THE NEXT FEW SLIDES. SO HERE'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY. WE HAVE THE CURRENT STUDY ONGOING. IT'S ANTICIPATED TO BE COMPLETED AROUND THE END OF THE YEAR FOR BOTH. AND THIS IS LOOKING AT THE UEA ESTABLISHMENT, HOW TO PLAN FOR, EVALUATING A NUMBER OF COMPONENTS OF THE COMMUNITY AS WELL AS TAKING SIGNIFICANT STEAC INPUT. THERE ARE NEW POLICY APPROACHES THAT WE THINK WILL INFORM THE FUTURE PHASES OF THIS APPROACH. WE ARE HOPING THERE WILL BE SOME NEW INNOVATIVE IDEAS AND CONCEPTS THAT COME OUT OF THIS THAT COULD INFORM US MOVING FORWARD. AND THEN WE MOVE INTO -- IT'S PHASE 1. IF YOU EXCLUDE WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, THE ANALYSIS OF ALTERNATIVES AND IDENTIFICATION OF THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE. I WILL SAY THAT THESE COSTS ARE SIMPLY ESTIMATES. THEY ARE BASED ON STAFF'S BEST AVAILABLE INFORMATION AND OUR EXPERIENCE WITH PRIOR STUDY. AND THEY COULD TAKE PLACE -- THE TASKS COULD TAKE PLACE AT ONCE.

THEY COULD BE ITERATIVE, SO THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN A PARTICULAR ORDER. BUT REALLY THE FIRST APPROACH WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE CURRENT CONDITIONS IN THE COUNTY, HOW DOES THE URBAN SERVICE AREA INTERFACE WITH RESPECT TO LAND USE AND REGULATIONS, HOW DOES GENERALLY IT INTERFACE WITH THE COUNTY AND THE OTHER AGENCIES AT A HIGH LEVEL. WE'D LIKE TO SPEND SOME TIME IDENTIFYING THE CHALLENGES AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE URBAN SERVICE AREA BOTH IN CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COMMUNITY AS WELL AS ELECTED OFFICIALS AND STAKEHOLDERS. AND DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S WORKING, WHERE ARE THERE AREAS OF IMPROVEMENT. PREPARE A SWOT ANALYSIS AND THEN HAVE A CONSULTANT ASSISTANT IDENTIFYING OTHER COMMUNITIES, POLICIES AND SOME INFORMATIONS THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO USE TO PREPARE. AND THEN PROVIDE SOME ALTERNATIVE SCENARIOS TO THIS BOARD, TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABOUT WHAT DIFFERENT OPTIONS MIGHT BE, INCLUDING THE STATUS QUO. AND THEN IDENTIFY THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE AND COST ESTIMATE FOR PHASE 2. AND PHASE 2, THIS IS THE MUCH MORE DETAILED ONE. THIS RUNS A COUPLE OF PAGES IN YOUR PACKET SO I'M NOT GOING INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL. BUT ESSENTIALLY, THIS IS WHERE THERE WOULD REALLY NEED TO BE MUCH MORE THOROUGH EVALUATION OF WHAT CHANGES WOULD NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IF THERE WERE A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO BE TAKEN. THIS IS ASSUMING THAT WE TRIED TO THINK AHEAD ABOUT, OKAY, IF THERE IS A DECISION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DIFFERENT APPROACH, WHAT ALL WOULD NEED TO BE LOOKED AT. SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE ALL OF THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS LISTED HERE. EVERYTHING FROM INFRASTRUCTURE PLANNING TO THE FISCAL COMPONENT, TRANSPORTATION, AND

MOBILITY PLANNING, THE ENVIRONMENTAL AND ENSURING ENVIRONMENTAL AND RURAL LANDS ARE CONSERVED AND A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT POLICY CHANGES AS WELL AS COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT THROUGHOUT EVERY STEP OF THE PROCESS. AND THEN DURING THIS PHASE, WE WOULD ALSO PREPARE ESTIMATES PHASING AND TIMING FOR PHASE 3, WHICH WOULD REALLY BE THE CHANGES THAT NEED TO OCCUR. IT IS STILL FAR IN THE FUTURE AND WE HAVEN'T COMPLETED PHASE 2. IT IS VERY GENERAL. BUT WE WANT TO IDENTIFY THAT THERE WOULD NEED TO BE A THIRD SEPARATE PHASE THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE CHANGING THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, CHANGING THE MOBILITY FEE STRUCTURE, THOSE THINGS THAT WOULD NEED TO OCCUR IF THERE WERE A DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVE OTHER THAN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA AS TODAY PROPOSED. AND SO THIS IS AN ACTION ITEM. YOU ALL ARE INVITED TO DETERMINE IF YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO EXECUTE A LETTER TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS REQUESTING FOR THIS REVIEW. SUPPORT FOR STAFF RESOURCES AND FUNDING. AND THEN SPECIFIC PRIORITIES FOR REVIEW. AND THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THANK YOU. NO ONE SIGNED UP IN THE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ONE SO IT IS OVER TO US, COMMISSIONERS, FOR QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, THOUGHTS ON ALL THIS. COMMISSIONER SIENK.

THANK YOU. I GUESS MY GENERAL QUESTION IS WHAT PROBLEM ARE WE TRYING TO SOLVE? IS THE CURRENT TOOL NOT WORKING? I GUESS WITH STAFF WE HAVE TWO STUDIES CURRENTLY GOING ON THAT WE HAVEN'T GOT RESULTS BACK AND CONSISTENTLY FOR YEARS WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT HOUSING AFFORDABILITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THIS AREA. BUT I'M NERVOUS THAT WE'RE LIFG IN HEADLINES FROM A YEAR AND A HALF AGO WHICH NOW THEY ARE SAYING DEVELOPERS HAVE OVERDEVELOPED. WE'RE SEEING PRICING COMING DOWN. ARE THE TOOLS FAILING? OR I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE BY DOING THIS.

SURE. SO THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD. THIS IS A BOARD INITIATED ACTION ITEM. SO, YOU KNOW, AS STAFF, WE NEVER THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA TO MAKE SURE WE'RE USING OR LOOKING AT ALL OF OUR TOOLS, WAR MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE CURRENT AND THAT MAYBE THERE'S NOT ANOTHER TOOL THAT COULD BE BETTER. BUT I THINK I WOULD ASK THE COMMISSIONERS PERHAPS IF THERE'S MORE INFORMATION THAT MAYBE WASN'T SHARED LAST TIME. BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAME FROM THE BOARD. NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER LINKOUS.

I JUST WANT TO SAY WHEN THIS CAME UP THE LAST TIME, I ACTUALLY ASKED THE SAME QUESTION. SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, I THINK THERE ARE BIG QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS. AND I THINK IT WAS REALLY HELPFUL TO SEE THAT OVER 100 TIMES IN THE PLAN I THINK AND IN THE LDC 300 TIMES THIS IS MENTIONED. FOR ME, WHEN I LOOK AT ANY LAND USE DECISIONS, THE FIRST THINGS I LOOK AT ARE REALLY -- THIS IS THE TOP TWO OR THREE THINGS, IS THIS IN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA BECAUSE THAT IS INTEGRAL TO DENSITY, TO HOW THE INFRASTRUCTURE PROVISION IS. I GUESS I JUST ASKED THE SAME QUESTION. I REALLY AM NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THE IDEA OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. CERTAINLY, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE HEADLINES AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IS IMPORTANT. BUT WHETHER THIS IS THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THAT, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, I DO APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION BUT I WOULDN'T SUPPORT A LETTER ABOUT EXPENDITURE OF FURTHER PUBLIC RESOURCES TO LOOK AT THIS AT THIS TIME. I THINK IT'S A REALLY HELPFUL TOOL. I WAS LOOKING AT -- I'M THE SORT OF PLANNING NERD IN THIS AND I'M THE ACADEMIC. I PULLED AN ARTICLE THIS WEEK. I THINK IT'S 60% OF FLORIDA COUNTIES HAVE URBAN SERVICE AREAS. AND THE ONES THAT DON'T ARE USUALLY RURAL WITH A TOTALLY DIFFERENT KIND OF SET OF CONDITIONS, NOT HAVING TO BALANCE THE URBAN AND SUBURBAN AND RURAL LIKE WE DO HERE. TO ME THE MORE SOPHISTICATED COUNTIES USE THIS TOOL AND IT'S FUNDAMENTAL TO THE WAY FLORIDA FOLKS DO PLANNING. I APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION, BUT I DON'T THINK I WOULD BE SUPPORTING A LETTER.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER LINKOUS. ALL RIGHT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THIS? I GUESS I'LL -- COMMISSIONER SIENK, GO AHEAD, PLEASE. KIND OF A FOLLOW-UP WITH IT, TOO. WE'RE GOING THROUGH WATER RESTRICTIONS. WE'RE GOING THROUGH TRANSPORTATION ISSUES. WE'RE GOING THROUGH LACK OF SCHOOL. AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS KIND OF WORK AS A TOOL FOR EVERYONE TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE WE NEED TO PUSH RESOURCES. SO I GUESS MY OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE TO THE SCHOOL BOARD WHICH IS LIKE WITHOUT THIS TOOL, HOW DO WE PLAN FOR FUTURE SCHOOLS? LIKE HOW DOES THAT WORK?

WELL, AS YOU KNOW, I AM REPRESENTING MICHELLE SO I DON'T WANT TO TELL YOU MORE THAN WHAT SHE WOULD SAY. BUT BASICALLY, I SHARED THIS BEFORE. WHENEVER MORE DEVELOPMENT COMES, OF COURSE, WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AHEAD TO BUY LAND, BUILD SCHOOLS, PROVIDE THE FUNDING TO BUILD THE SCHOOLS. BASICALLY THE NEW PEOPLE COMING IN WILL BE FUNDING THAT. SO THAT'S PRETTY MUCH HOW WE ADDRESS THAT. BUT AS YOU KNOW, ALSO, IN NO WAY CAN WE SAY NO MORE DEVELOPMENT CAN COME IN. WE JUST HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROVIDE THE SCHOOL AND THE CAPACITY. THAT'S OUR TAKE.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS BEFORE I GO ON MY DDIATRIBE? INPUT FROM THE BOARD AS MS. DICKENS POINTED OUT IS DIRECTED AT ME AND I FEATURE HEAVILY IN THIS REPORT. THIS REPORT WAS KIND OF DISAPPOINTING TO ME. I THINK IT WAS A BIG SWING AND A MISS BY STAFF. LET ME READ YOU A QUOTE HERE FROM THE SUMMARY ON THE FIRST PAGE. REPORT. DECEMBER 2025, THE PLANNING COMMISSION BOARD DISCUSSED THE BEFORE'S IDEA TO CONSIDER WHETHER THE COUNTY SHOULD REMOVE THE U.S.A., MODIFY THE U.S.A. OR USE AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH WITH A NEW TOOL. AT THAT MEETING IN DECEMBER, I SPECIFICALLY SAID I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WOULD BE. I DIDN'T KNOW IF COMMISSIONER LOUK WAS RIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WERE RIGHT. I DIDN'T KNOW IF WHAT WE HAD NOW IS RIGHT. SAID MAYBE COMMISSIONER LOUK IS WRONG AND WE NEED TO KEEP EVERYTHING HOW IT IS. GO BACK AND WATCH THE VIDEO. I SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT. WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR IS STAFF TO TAKE A LOOK AT AND EVALUATE THE URBAN SERVICE AREA BOUNDARY AS A TOOL. SOMEHOW WE'VE GOTTEN PAST THAT AND NOW WE SIT HERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER TO REMOVE IT OR WHETHER TO FIND ALTERNATIVES WHEN WE HAVEN'T EVEN EVALUATED IT YET. SO I THINK STAFF HAS GONE TOO FAR ON THIS ONE. I THINK WE SHOULD FOCUS IN -- AND I'D LIKE TO HAVE STAFF GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. I DON'T MEAN NUMBER 2 IN THE PACK, EVALUATION OF EFFECTIVENESS OF THE EXISTING URBAN SERVICE AREA POLICY FRAMEWORK IN ACHIEVING WHAT WE WANT IT TO ACHIEVE. COMMISSIONER SIENK IS EXACTLY RIGHT, SO IS COMMISSIONER LINKOUS PARTIALLY. I'LL PARTIALLY AGREE WITH YOU AND I'LL BE THE LAYPERSON ON THIS BOARD. I'M FINE BEING THE LAY CITIZEN. MY QUESTION IS WHETHER WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IS BEING ACHIEVED.

I THINK THERE'S A BIG MISS HERE, AND THE WORK IS GOOD, I'M NOT UPSET WITH IT, LIKE YOU SAID, IF WE DO AT SOME FUTURE POINT GET TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT ALTERNATIVES OR LOOKING AT REMOVING IT COMPLETELY, THEN ALL THESE NUMBERS AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND ALL THE 300 THINGS IT'S IN, THEY'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO BE TOUCHED. WHAT I'M TRYING TO FOCUS ON HERE, AND THE DIRECTION I TRIED TO SET YOU OFF IN IN DECEMBER IS TO LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE USING AND HOW WE'RE USING IT. YOU DO THAT IN SECTION 2 HERE. RELATED OBJECTIVES, CONCENTRATING GROWTH, TO ENSURE GLOEJ GROWTH IS SUPPORTED. THERE ARE FIVE DIFFERENT METRICS WE USE HERE. THE 80/20 NUMBER WE HEAR ABOUT SO OFTEN. DO WE KNOW WHERE THAT COMES FROM?

BUILDING PERMIT DATA? . NIGEL JOSEPH: NO, NO, WHERE THE ORIGINAL 80/20 SPLIT OCCURRED. IT'S ADOPTED IN THE PLAN.

NIGEL JOSEPH: I KNOW, WHY NOT 85, WHY NOT 75, WHY NOT 25, WHY NOT 30. WHEN WE HIT 80, WHAT DOES THAT GIVE US? DOES IT GIVE US BETTER UTILITIES, BETTER COST FOR UTILITIES, WHAT IS THAT 80 BUYING US. I UNDERSTAND EVERY YEAR WE'RE HITTING OUR 80. WE'RE ALL DOING GREAT, WE'RE HITTING THAT 80 ALL THE TIME, WHAT ARE WE GETTING FROM HITTING THAT. AND HOW DOES CHANGING THAT SUBSTANTIVELY CHANGE INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AFFORDABILITY, PROTECTION OF RURAL AND AGRICULTURAL LANDS. CAN ANYBODY TELL ME THAT IN HERE, I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, MAYBE WE NEED DEVELOPMENT SERVICES TO TALK TO US, MAYBE WE NEED PEOPLE FROM THE COUNTY OFFICES WHO HAVE THAT INFORMATION TO TALK TO US. SOMEBODY HAS TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN THIS, BECAUSE FOR 30 YEARS, WE'RE HITTING A NUMBER, AND TO COMMISSIONER SIENK'S POINT, WE HAE PROBLEMS WITH HOUSING AFFORD ABILITY, PROBLEMS WITH WATER INFRASTRUCTURE TODAY. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW OUR EVALUATION OF THIS TOOL, HOW THE RESULTS THAT WE GET FROM USING THIS TOOL ARE LANDING ON THE BACKS OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, BUT I WANT STAFF TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, RIGHT? AND THEN MAYBE AGAIN YOU'LL FIND OUT THAT THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY IS THE PERFECT TOOL, THAT ALL THIS IS MOOT. AND WE DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE A SINGLE THING. IN THIS MEETING HERE AND THIS ONE I'M LOOKING AT BEFORE ME, IT'S EVEN IN THE NAME OF THE THING I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE CHANGED. EVALUATION OF URBAN SERVICE AR AREA AND ALTERNATIVES. HOW DO WE GET TO ALTERNATIVES, WE STILL HAVE TO EVALUATE THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY AS A TOOL. I THINK THERE WAS A BIG MISS HERE HAD IT COMES TO THAT. THE STUFF WE HAVE AFTER IS GERMANE, BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW, WHERE WE ARE, STAFF NEEDS TO FOCUS IN ON EVALUATING THAT

TOOL. THESE BULLET POINTS HERE, I STARTED OFF WITH THE 80%, THE NEXT ONE IS FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES THAT MATCH ADOPTED TARGETS. THAT'S BACK TO THE 80%, WE HAVE THESE EVALUATIVE POINTS, 4 OR 5 OF THEM, BUT THEY'RE CIRCULAR, THEY RUN IN A CIRCLE, HIT 80%, DO THE LAND USE DENSITY SUPPORT THE 80%. IT'S LIKE AN OVERLAP OF DOING THE SAME THING AGAIN AND AGAIN. THE LAST TWO ARE GOOD, COORDINATION OF TIMING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT, THE PROVISIONS OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND SERVICES. WE ALWAYS WANT TO BE DOING THAT. THAT'S NOT AN EVALUATION OF THE TOOL. THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO HAVE DONE. THE LAST ONE IS PROVIDING CHOICE OF URBAN AND SUBURBAN AND RURAL LIVING OPTIONS. IS THAT HOW WE EVALUATE WHETHER THE TOOL IS WORKING?

IF I COULD -- I CAN RESOND. SO FIRST, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS THE LANGUAGE WITHIN THE ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COULD BE A LITTLE BIT CLEARER, BUT WE FELT, WE WERE TO START FROM SCRATCH, EVALUATING THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, WE WANTED TO GO WITH, WHAT'S IT SAY IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THAT'S WHY THOSE SPECIFIC METRICS WERE CHOSEN, THAT'S WHAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SAYS TODAY. THEY'RE PROBABLY -- THEY CERTAINLY COULD BE MORE -- BETTER DEFINED, MORE CRITERIA, WE WANTED, WE DIDN'T WANT TO GO WELL WE THINK WE SHOULD EVALUATE IT BASED ON X, THAT'S WHY THOSE ARE MORE GENERAL. THE LAND USE DENSITIES AND INTENSITIES, I CAN CLARIFY THAT, THAT WAS, OKAY, ARE WE DEVELOPING TO THE MAXIMUM DENSITY OR INTENSITY, IS THERE STILL DENSITY OR INTENSITY THAT'S AVAILABLE. THAT WAS DISCRETE, NOT RELATE 209D FIRST BULLET POINT. AND THEN I DO WANT TO SAY THAT STAFF DID GO BACK, I HAD SEVERAL STAFF GO BACK AND WATCH THE VIDEO, AND MAKE SURE I WAS INTERPRETING, OUR TEAM WAS INTERPRETING THINGS CORRECTLY. IT SOUNDS LIKE, PERHAPS, THE -- PERHAPS THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALWAYS GO BACK AND CHANGE THINGS, BUT I DO WANT TO CLARIFY THAT WE HAD SEVERAL PEOPLE GO BACK AND WATCH THE VIDEO, TO MAKE SURE WE WERE ADDRESSING YOUR DIRECTION. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO GET SOME MORE CLARITY FROM THE BOARD IN ITS ENTIRETY ABOUT -- WHAT ALL SHOULD GO INTO THIS FIRST PHASE, IF WE ARE GOING TO GO BACK, AND ONLY FOCUS ON THE FIRST PHASE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER SIEBEN.

MY QUESTION, WHEN COMMISSIONER LOUK BRINGS THIS UP, WHY DOES IT EXIST? MAYBE COMMISSIONER LINKOUS COULD SPEAK TO US ABOUT THAT. YOU REFERENCE IT OFTEN AND REFER TO IT OFTEN. AND 60% OF THE JURISDICTIONS IN FLORIDA HAVE IT. WHY? IF PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE OUT THERE, AND THEY WANT CONNECTIONS OUT THERE, WHY WOULD WE AS A MUNICIPALITY TRY TO LIMIT WHERE THAT GOES? OR WHY WOULDN'T THAT BE JUST THE DECISION OF US AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT ALSO RESIDENTS AND DEVELOPERS OUT IN THOSE AREAS TRYING TO DEVELOP TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.

I TRY NOT TO BE TOO BOEFRG AND BE A PLANNING HISTORIAN HERE, I THINK IT WAS 1993, THE FLORIDA GROWTH ACT. WHICH REQUIRED LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO PLAN FOR SEPARATION OF URBAN AND RURAL AREAS. SO THE EARLY FRAMEWORK DATES BACK TO 1985, OVER TIME YOU SEE THIS EVOLUTION OF THE TOOL. ALSO, KIND OF IN THE 90s, THAT'S WHEN THE EMERGENCY SMART GRID HAPPENED, WHICH WAS VERY MUCH ABOUT USING PUBLIC RESOURCES RESPONSIBLY, INVEST THE 90s LINKAGE TO INFRASTRUCTURE PROVISION IS THERE. SO THAT'S THE ORIGINS AND WHY THIS WAS ADOPTED THROUGHOUT THE STATE. AND I WOULD SAY WHAT THE STAFF REPORT THAT WE JUST HEARD TALKS ABOUT, NOW IT'S BECOME FUNDAMENTAL TO A LOT OF DECISION MAKING. AND ALSO, I WOULD EMPHASIZE THAT THIS IS POLICY THAT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE SUPPORTING, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION OR DEVELOPERS ARE NECESSARILY DECIDING. THIS IS THE POLICY OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE FRAMED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. I HOPE THAT WAS HELPFUL.

CAN I TALK ON THAT A LITTLE BIT?

I APPRECIATE THAT. I JUST DON'T WANT TO LOSE IT. I APPRECIATE THAT, I WOULD SAY THAT IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE -- WE HAVE SOME CONFLICT AS FAR AS POLICY IS CONCERNED WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WE DON'T WANT MORE DEVELOPMENT IN THE URBAN CORE, BUT WE ALSO DON'T WANT MORE DEVELOPMENT IN THE POTENTIALLY RURAL AREAS, SO WE'RE KIND OF AT AN IMPASSE, AND SORT OF IN A STICKY SITUATION, SO MY INCLINATION WOULD BE, ALLOW THE PEOPLE TO DECIDE SORT OF WHERE DEVELOPMENT ENDS UP GOING OR DEVELOPERS DEVELOP WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO BE. SO WE'RE KIND OF -- IT SEEMS, AT LEAST IN OUR COMMUNITY, WE'RE BEING PIGEONHOLED. WE DON'T WANT IT HERE, BUT WE ALSO DON'T WANT IT HERE, YOU THINK TO, WHERE CAN IT POSSIBLY GO.

RIGHT. I WAS JUST -- I THINK WE SAID IT, AND YOU ALL SAID A VERY INTERESTING VANTAGE POINT. YOU SEE APPLICATIONS FROM ALL FOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. EACH OF THOSE DECISION MAKING BODIES DON'T SEE THAT. SO THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY SEEING WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT THE PUSH AND PULL BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE UNINCORPORATED AREA. I THINK IF YOU ASK SOME OF THE UNINCORPORATED COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, THEY'D SAY, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE MORE DEVELOPMENT INTHE CITY, AND MAYBE VICE VERSA. THAT'S PART OF THE DYNAMICS THAT ARE UNIQUE HERE. I THINK FUNDAMENTALLY THE URBAN SERVICE AREA'S GOAL WAS TO ENSURE THAT THE COUNTY COULD PLAN FOR THE GROWTH THAT WAS COMING. IT IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE FOR THE COUNTY TO SERVE WITH WATER AND SEWER, JUST AS ONE EXAMPLE. ONE UNIT PER ACRE DEVELOPMENT. ONE UNIT PER FIVE ACRE DEVELOPMENT, THAN IT IS TO SERVE FOUR, SIX, NINE UNITS PER ACRE. THAT WAS WHAT THE TOOL WAS TRYING TO LINK, WAS THERE ARE PLACES WHERE THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO CONCENTRATE GROWTH AND HAVE MORE OF THAT, AND BACK WHEN IF STARTED, I MEAN, THERE -- AT THE TIME THE STATE TOLD US THE URBAN SERVICE AREA WAS TOO BIG AND WE HAD TO CONTRACT IT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP THAT MELISSA HAD, THE HISTORICAL MAP, THE REASON SOME OF THOSER AS ARE LABELLED EXPANSION AREAS IS BECAUSE THE STATE SAID, YOU HAVE TOO MUCH. WE RECOGNIZE AND WE USE THE 80% METRIC AS A WAY TO KEEP TRACK OF

ARE WE -- IS THERE STILL LAND TO ACCOMMODATE THAT FUTURE GROWTH. SO WHEN WE LOOK AHEAD AT OUR PROJECTIONS, AND WE SEE THAT WE CAN'T KEEP ACCOMMODATING 80% IN OUR FUTURE GROWTH, WE SAID, WE NEED TO PLAN TO EXPAND. AND THAT IS NOT JUST A STATIC LIKE EVERY YEAR ARE WE MEETING IT TOOL, BUT IT IS A FORWARD LOOKING GOAL. SO WE KNOW THAT BETWEEN NOW AND THE LIFE SPAN OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HIT THAT GOAL. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THAT'S WHY WE'RE STUDYING THE LARGER AREAS FOR EXPANSION. YEAH, I WENT A COUPLE --

IF I -- IF IT'S OKAY, I CAN ADD A LITTLE BIT ON TO THAT, BECAUSE OUR TEAM DOES WORK A LOT WITH THE CAPITAL FACILITIES PLANNING. IT'S MUCH IN ADDITION TO THE DENSITY, IT'S MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO, OKAY, IF -- HOW MANY ROADS WILL THERE BE, LIKE THE CORRIDOR PRESERVATION PLAN IS TIED TO THAT. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO BE MAINTAINED, LIKE THE COSTS OF NOT ONLY SERVING THE DEVELOPMENT INITIALLY, BUT ALSO THE COST OF THE MAINTENANCE.

I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I CAN APRECIATE THAT ABSOLUTELY. BUT MY THOUGHT GOES TO, YOU KNOW, I WONDER ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF IT AS WELL, BECAUSE COULD WE NOT HAVE ALL THE TRAFFIC WE'RE SEEING, IF WE HAD ALLOWED SOME MORE OF THIS URBAN SPRAWL TO HAPPEN NATURALLY, AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO CONFINE IT TO PARTICULAR LOCATIONS. THESE ARE THINGS THAT I THINK SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, IF THERE'S A WAY TO ASSESS THEM, I DON'T KNOW. I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE GONE ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS, I THINK THAT'S WHAT COMMISSIONER JOY RECEIVE WAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT. BOTH SIDES HAVE VALID POINTS, YOU HAVE US BICKERING WITH EACH OTHER, ONE SIDE DOESN'T WANT IT, ONE SIDE WANTS IT. WE HAE NO METRIC TO UNDERSTAND, BESIDES THIS 80% THING THAT NO ONE CAN SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT. AND THERE'S NO -- SO EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU GUYS DO, IT'S GREAT, WHEN THEY COME IN HERE LATER AND DO REDIRECTING, WHY ARE WE DOING IT, THERE'S DETAILED INFORMATION ON EVERYTHING WE DO. AND THEN THIS URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY POPS UP, AND IT'S LIKE, GIVE US SOME QUANTITATIVE REASONING BEHIND IT. THAT'S THE WAY THEY'VE DONE IT SINCE 1993, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IT LIKE THAT BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE'VE BEEN DOING IT. GIVE ME SOME SUBSTANCE TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS BY. I EITHER HAVE TO LISTEN TO A NARRATIVE FROM 1993 OR STICK MY HEAD IN THE SAND AND KEEP DOING WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING. I'M ASKING FOR CLARITY, LET'S TAKE A HARD LOOK AT IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY IS GOING TO BE REMOVED. STAFF MAY LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, WE'VE BEEN DOING IT GREAT FOR 30 YEARS, AND WE'RE LEADING THE NATION. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME IS, BUT NOBODY'S WILLING TO LOOK AT IT RIGHT NOW. EVERYBODY'S AFRAID THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY IS GOING TO BE REMOVED. LET'S GET SOME SUBSTANTIVE NUMBERS, SOME UNDERSTANDING OF HOW WE'RE DOING THIS, AND HOW IT'S WORKING IS REALLY ALL I'M SAYING.

I WOULD JUST ADD THAT AS MISS DICKENS SAID, STAFF IS VERY OPEN TO EVALUATING IT. WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT SHOULD NOT OCCUR. AND I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT STAFF FELT THAT AS PART OF THOSE EVALUATIONS, IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ALTERNATIVE CHOICES ARE. SO THAT'S WHERE THE ALTERNATIVES CAME IN. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE URBAN SERVICE AREA IS DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO, AND WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE -- CONTINUE IN ITS CURRENT STATE OR TWEEKED IN SOME WAY. IS THERE AN INNOVATION WE CAN INCLUDE, OR SHOULD WE MOVE TO SOMETHING DIFFERENT? WE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT THOSE OTHER THINGS ARE, WHAT OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE USING, WHAT SOME OF THOSE ALTERNATIVES MIGHT BE. SO THEN WE CAN DECIDE THE PATH FORWARD.

THAT'S FINE. I'M NOT TRYING TO BEAT UP ON YOU ALL, I KNOW I'M VERY TOUGH IN MY -- THIS REPORT IS FINE, I HAD A BRIEFING, WE HAD BRIEFINGS BEFORE THIS, AND I SKIMMED THROUGH IT, AND I WAS OKAY WITH IT, AND THEN WHEN I STARTED LOOKING AT THE DETAILS OF IT, THEY KIND OF MISSED WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT HERE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I'M NOT THROWING STAFF UNDER THE BUS -- LET ME ADD TO THAT TOO, IF THIS GOES FORWARD, I DON'T THINK THIS AGENCY STAFF IS WHO NEEDS TO DO IT, WE NEED TO BRING OUTSIDE RESOURCES TO THIS QUESTION, BECAUSE YOU ALL ARE FOCUSED ABOUT DEALING WITH THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND MAKING SURE THINGS JIVE WITH THE CONSTANT -- YOU LIVE BY, IT'S YOUR EVERY DAY. YOU'RE WAY TOO CLOSE TO IT TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND SAY, WELL, THIS ISN'T WORKING BECAUSE OF THIS. IT'S NOT A KNOCK AT STAFF. YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. I CAN SEE AFTER READING THIS REPORT, HOWEVER THIS GOES FORWARD, I THINK THIS HAS TO BE AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT WHO LOOKS AT THIS AND BRINGS OUTSIDE IDEA WHERES INTO IT. YOU ARE ALL CLOSE TO THIS THING, EVEN THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, YOU CAN TELL, THAT'S THE SAME STUFF WE'VE BEEN DOING, AND THAT'S GOOD, THAT'S YOUR FOCUS, I THINK WE MIGHT NEED NEW EYES ON THIS ONE.

IF I COULD JUST -- I HAVE A CLARIFICATION QUESTION THAT I'D LIKE TO GET INPUT ON. FIRST, THIS IS OUTLINED SO IT IS A PRIVATE CONSULTANT. WE AGREE, WE DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE THE PEOPLE THAT LOOK AT IT. SECONDLY, I THINK IT IS DIFFICULT FOR STAFF TO DETERMINE, HOW ARE WE MEASURING, IF WE'RE NOT MEASURING IT AGAINST THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO. OTHERWISE THERE MAY BE BIAS. MAYBE SOME PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING. OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING, NO, I WANT MY LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION, AND I WANT TO HAVE MY NEIGHBORHOOD THE WAY IT IS NOW. IT'S DIFFICULT FOR STAFF TO COME UP WITH QUANTITATIVE METRICS THAT ARE NOT -- IF YOU LOOK AT A & B, THOSE ARE BOTH RELATED TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT'S REALLY -- THAT'S OUR CHARGE. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO INDEPENDENTLY IDENTIFY METRICS. WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT THE BEST PRACTICES, WHAT DO THE PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS SAY. IS THERE ANY INSIGHT, ANY ACADEMIC INSIGHT, I WOULD NEED PROBABLY SOME SPECIFIC DIRECTION FROM THIS BOARD ABOUT WHAT METRICS YOU WOULD WANT THAT ARE NOT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, OTHERWISE, IT'S GOING TO BE OUR STAFF POTENTIALLY COMING UP WITH THEM FOR THE CONSULTANT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

MAYBE STEP ONE FOR STAFF, SHOULD BE TO FIND AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT THE TO HELP YOU SORT THROUGH SOME METRICS. THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE WITH OUTSIDE EYES WHO CAN PRESENT YOU WITH A SUITE OF METRICS, THESE ARE WAYS WE CAN MEASURE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF YOUR TOOL. AND THEN STAFF CAN LOOK AT THOSE OPTIONS AND SAY, THIS LOOKS LIKE A GOOD METRIC, THIS MAKES SENSE, IT'S GOING TO COME FROM ALL DIRECTIONS, I REALIZE THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS THING, I SAID THAT BACK IN DECEMBER, IT'S GOING TO INVOLVE TRANSPORTATION, ROADWAY DEVELOPMENT, A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE, I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, STAFF -- AND ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE YOU'RE DOING, IN JUST THE REGULAR WORK, THAT'S A LOT. MAYBE STEP ONE HAS TO BE, OKAY, FIND AN OUTSIDE SOURCE THAT CAN BRING US A SUITE OF METRICS AND MEASUREMENTS THAT CAN SUBSTANTIVELY MEASURE OUR TOOL, AND THEN WE CAN GO FORWARD WITH THOSE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? STAFF DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO JUMP IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

I THINK THAT'S VERY GOOD FEEDBACK. AND I THINK THIS -- WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS WAS -- I THINK SAID IT A COUPLE TIMES IN THE AGENDA ITEM, THIS WAS A FIRST CUT AT THIS, AND WE WOULD NEED INPUT FROM -- IN PARTICULAR, A NUMBER OF OTHER COUNTY DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES, THAT STEP IS LISTED IN SECTION 2, PERHAPS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO A BIT MORE OF BEFORE PROCURING A CONSULTANT, AND THEN ASKING THE CONSULTANT TO HELP US SHAPE SOME OF THAT. I JUST WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT AS PART OF THAT, WE'RE HAVING GOOD FEEDBACK LOOPS TO YOU ALL INTO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S CONSENSUS ON THOSE METRICS. ON THINGS LIKE THAT BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR DOWN THE LINE. SO THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY FLESH THAT OUT A BIT, AND -- IN BRINGING SOMETHING BACK TO YOU ALL.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION --

I GUESS -- I KIND OF FEEL LIKE I'M STILL IN THE SAME PLACE WHEN THIS CONVERSATION BEGAN WHERE I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS ACTIVITY IS, TO ME, LOOKING AT THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, IT WOULD BE LIKE LOOKING AT ZONING OR WHY DO WE HAVE COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING. IT'S A VERY BROADBRUSH TOOL. UNLESS WE CAN ARTICULATE WHY WE HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, I'M NOT SURE THAT USING PUBLIC RESOURCES IN TERMS OF STAFF TIME OR ENLISTING A CONSULTANT TO COME UP WITH THOSE QUESTIONS IS AN ACTIVITY THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO ME. I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE UPON US IF WE WERE TO WRITE A LETTER TO DO DUE DILIGENCE WHY THIS IS A POINT OF CONVERSATION.

IT'S A GOOD POINT. I DID HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THAT GIVES -- YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD?

YES. THANK YOU. WHEN I FIRST ENCOUNTERED THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, I'M STILL A NEWBIE HERE. I DIDN'T HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO TALK ABOUT IT AT THE BEGINNING. I WAS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT, I THOUGHT, OBVIOUSLY, PLANNING, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOUR PRESERVED LAND IS, WITH WHERE YOUR NATURAL AREAS STAY, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE THE CORE URBAN CONCENTRATION IS, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE SCHOOLS GO, YOUR SEPTIC GOES. THAT'S BASIC. URBAN SERVICE AREA SEEMED TO ME, IT WAS A BACK DOORWAY TO PRESERVE THIS AND ALLOW DEVELOPMENT HERE. AND I THOUGHT -- YOU COULD ALSO DO A PRESERVE AREA. YOU COULD ALSO TAKE THE OPPOSITE COIN, THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, THESE ARE PRESERVE AREAS AND YOU CAN DEVELOP EVERYTHING ELSE. I THOUGHT THIS IS COOL. BUT THEN, WHAT I NOTICED IN THE MEETINGS, AGAIN AND AGAIN, THERE WAS A PATTERN WHERE THE URBAN SERVICE AREA DIDN'T SEEM TO ME TO BE WORKING THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO. PEOPLE WERE COMING IN AND ASKING FOR CHANGES TO THE USA TO EXPAND IT. AND THEY WANTED TO BUILD AROUND THE URBAN SERVICE AREA RATHER THAN BUILD INSIDE IT. THE GOAL WAS TO GET DEVELOPMENT INSIDE OF THERE AND NOT EXPAND IT. I THOUGHT MAYBE IT'S NOT WORKING, IT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION FROM A NEWBIE, DO WE HAVE THE WAIT TA TO SAY WHETHER THESE ARE WORKING IN TERMS OF THE GOAL OF CREATING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT WE DESTROY OR WHAT WE DIG UP. WHAT WE DIG UP, AND WHAT WE KEEP, VERSUS WHAT WE'RE RENOVATING OR REPLACING INSIDE THE URBAN COR. IF IT'S TRUE THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY REDEVELOPING OUR URBAN CORES, THEN WE'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO PUT A LOT MORE POPULATION PRESSURE ON THE NATURAL AREAS OVER TIME. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT, YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO PRSERVE.

WOULD A PRESERVATION APPROACH BE BETTER THAN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA. THE WAY IT SEEMED TO ME IT WS BEING USED, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, NOBODY WAS COMING TO US WITH PROPOSALS TO REDEVELOP THE INNER CORE, THEY WERE TRYING TO GET AROUND THE OUTSIDE EDGE INTO THE NATURE AREAS AT THE SAME TIME. MY CONCERN WASN'T LIKE GETTING RID OF IT, IT WAS JUST TO SAY, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OUR DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVES ARE GOING IN THE DIRECTION WE WANTED THEM TO, OR IS THIS NOT WORKING THE WAY WE HOPED IT WOULD OPINION THAT'S REALLY MY CONCERN AS A BEGINNER. I DIDN'T VOICE ANYTHING UNTIL COMMISSIONER LOUK AND CHAIR JOSEPH BROUGHT IT UP. THEY HAVE A LOT MORE EXPERIENCE THAN I DO. THERE MUST BE SOMETHING TO THIS. THAT'S WHAT I VOICED MY FIRST CONCERN ABOUT IT.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. I WANTED TO -- ADD ON TO THAT, BOTH COMMISSIONER LINKOUS' CHALLENGE TO COME UP WITH POINTS, AND COMMISSIONER KUGLER'S POINTS WE KEEP SEEING BITESING OFF THE EDGE. I DIDN'T LIKE THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS, IT WAS A BLANK LETTER LIKE WE WANT TO DO THIS. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS HERE, I WANT TO KNOW, MISS ZORNITTA AND STAFF, HAVE WE SEEN MORE OR LESS PRIVATELY INITIATED REQUESTS FOR REQUESTS OF THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, SINCE 1993. HAVE THOSE INCREASED OR DECREASED? THEY'VE CERTAINLY INCREASED SINCE 1993, YEAH. NEXT QUESTION, YEAH.

HAS THE COST OF PUBLIC SERVICES INCREASED OR DECREASED SINCE 1993? I WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME YES. NUMBER TWO. IS THERE MORE, LESS OR THE SAME RURAL AND AGRICULTURAL LAND IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SINCE 1993? I WOULD SAY LESS. OKAY. IS THERE MORE OR LESS HOUSING AFFORDABILITY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SINCE 1993?

ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION, ARE THE IMPACTS TO COMMISSIONER LOUK'S POINT, SINCE HE ISN'T HERE, WHICH HE BROUGHT UP. HAVE WE SEEN EVIDENCE OF THE IMPACTS OF MOVING THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY BE UNEQUAL -- IF A PROPERTY OWNER WANTED TO SUBDIVIDE THEIR LOT. WITH HAVE WE SEEN IMPACTS WHERE MOVING THAT BOUNDARY HAVE BEEN NOT QUITE SO EQUAL? I'M NOT -- I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT -- YEAH, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION.

NIGEL JOSEPH: WE'LL THROW THAT, IT'S A FAIRNESS ISSUE. I HAVE FOUR BULLET POINTS RIGHT HERE, AND THESE FOUR BULLET POINTS CORRELATE EXACTLY WITH THE THREE POINTS BEHIND THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY. THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN 1993, INTRODUCED URBAN SERVICE AREA AS A TOOL, LIMIT PUBLIC SERVICE COSTS, AND PRESERVE RURAL AND AGRICULTURAL LANDS.

MY POINT JUST IS, AGAIN, I'M NOT LOOKING TO BICKER HERE, SHE ASKED AND SAID WE SHOULD HAVE SOME POINTS TO PUT IN THE LETTER, I WOULD LIKE TO -- AND I HAVE SOME REVISIONS I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU TO THAT LETTER. I'M GOING TO INCLUDE SOME POINTS HERE, AS TO WHY WE WANT TO TAKE A LOOK A THE EFFICACY OF THE TOOL. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THAT IS GOING TO BE. NONE OF US KNOWS THAT. WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE TOOL AND UNDERSTAND IF IT'S WORKING THE WAY WE THINK IT'S WORKING. WHEN THESE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED, TO ME, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S NOT.

SO I WOULD JUST SAY THAT IT WOULD BE A COMPARISON OF, IF WE HAD THE URBAN SERVICE AREA OR WE DIDN'T, AND DID THE COSTS GO UP. IF WE HAD THE URBAN SERVICE AREA AND WE DIDN'T, YES, THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING, BUT WOULD THEY BE HAPPENING AT A GREATER DEGREE IF WE DIDN'T. TO ME, THAT'S MAYBE THE EVALUATION AS OPPOSED TO HOW IT WAS OUTLINED. NIGEL JOSEPH: WHICH IS AN EFFICACY MEASURE OF THE TOOL. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING ABOUT HERE. COMMISSIONER LINKOUS?

I THINK THOSE ARE STRONG QUESTIONS. THE COST OF SERVICES HAVE GONE UP EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. I FEEL LIKE WE'RE NOT BEING SPECIFIC. I'M KIND OF SHOCKED AT THIS CONVERSATION, I'LL BE HONEST, THE IDEA THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO DEVIATE FROM THE RULES, AND DEVELOP, TO COMMISSIONER KUGLER'S POINT, WHERE IT'S LIMITED, TO BE A MOTIVATION TO PROTECT LAND. NIGEL JOSEPH: NO ONE IS SAYING WE'RE CHANGING THOSE. YOU'RE AHEAD OF YOURSELF.

IF I COULD JUST CONTINUE, I DON'T THINK IN THE URBAN AREA, THE SUBURBAN AREA, THE RURAL AREA, WE'RE GOING TO SEE PRESSURE TO REDEVELOP LAND. AND AS PLANNING COMMISSIONERS, WE ARE HERE AND HAVE UNDER OATH TO SUPPORT WHAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SAYS. WE CAN DISCUSS THAT RULES ARE WORKING OR NOT WORKING. WE HAVE TO SAY WHY, BUT THE IDEA THAT IT IS NOT WORKING, BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO DEVELOP OUTSIDE OF IT, IS A STRANGE JUSTIFICATION FOR LOOKING AT THIS TO ME. YOU HAVE THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. YEAH.

NIGEL JOSEPH: NO ONE HERE BUT YOU THINKS WE'RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, OR IT'S GOING TO CHANGE SUBSTANTIVELY. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS EXAMINING WHAT WE'RE USING TO SEE HOW IT'S FUNCTIONING. YOU THROW THAT ON AT THE END TO SEE HOW WE'RE FUNCTIONING. THAT'S THE CORE ISSUE. BEFORE WE EVEN GET TO WHETHER OR NOT IT EXISTS, WHETHER OR NOT IT CHANGES, AGAIN, I KEEP SAYING THIS I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S GOING TO CHANGE. STAFF COULD GO THROUGH ALL THIS, AND WE COULD FIND OUT IT NEEDS TO STAY EXACTLY HOW WE ARE NOW. FOR 30 YEARS, WE'VE HAD OUR HEAD IN THE SANDS DOING THE SAME THING, WE HAVE ISSUES YOU ALL STARTED OFF TALKING ABOUT. I KNOW THERE ARE STRONG MAN ISSUES, BUT COMMISSIONER SIENK BROUGHT THEM UP TOO. THE ISSUE ISN'T GETTING RID OF IT WHOLE CLTH OR KEEPING IT WHOLE CLOTH, IT'S FOR US TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT'S FUNCTIONING. THAT'S FINE. AGREE TO DISAGREE.

BUT WITH THE AMOUNT OF EXPANSION REQUESTS. OF COURSE, IT'S GOING TO BE A PRODUCT OF IT, LAND OUTSIDE THE SERVICE AREA IS GOING TO BE LESS EXPENSIVE, BECAUSE WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE RESOURCES, AS A DEVELOPER, I WANT TO GO OUT THERE AND GET THAT CHIPER AND GET IT PULLED IN, BECAUSE I JUST PADDED MY PRODUCTION MARKET. SOME OF THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AREN'T NECESSARILY LEGITIMATE, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO GRAB THAT LAND, ASK FOR IT TO GET PULLED IN, AND NOT PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO THE CONSUMER. I'M GOING TO PAD MY PROFIT MARGIN, THAT'S HOW IT'S WORKED FOR YEARS. NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER CONA?

I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION. I THINK IT'S -- I WAS GOING TO STAY OUT OF IT, BUT I FIGURED I'D SAY MY POINT. I THINK FOR A VERY LONG TIME, I THINK THE URBAN SERVICE AREA IS A TOOL. DO I THINK THAT'S FUNCTIONING IN A WAY THAT HAS BEEN ADAPTABLE TO THE GROWTH WE'VE HAD? DO I THINK IT'S SOLVING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEMS, DO I THINK IT'S HELPING? I DON'T. I THINK IT'S A BARRIER MORE THAN IT IS A TOOL. WHEN STUFF BECOMES A BARRIER, AFFORDABILITY GOES WAY DOWN. WHEN IT KBECOMES MORE TO DEVELO, THE COST OF THINGS GO UP. WITH THAT SAID, I'VE SAT ON THIS COMMISSION FOR TWO YEARS NOW, WE HAVE MORE RULES FOR DEVELOPING INSIDE OF THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, THAT'S MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO BUILD INSIDE OF THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, THAN WE HAVE EXPANDING THE URBAN SERVICE AREA. IF THE CHALLENGE IS, WE WANT TO MOVE PEOPLE INTO THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, WHY DON'T WE MAKE IT EASIER TO BUILD IN THERE. WE CONTINUE TO PASS RULES AND REGS IN EVERY CITY N EVERY COUNTY, THAT MAKES IT HARDER TO BUILD WITHIN THAT SERVICE AREA. SO WE CAN'T SPEAK OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF OUR MOUTH AND SAY, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO EXPAND OUT THERE, WHEN WE MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO DO THE WORK INSIDE OF THE SERVICE AREA. THAT'S MY THOUGHT, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, I THINK AS A GROUP, WE NEED TO BE HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS, WE ARE TE INDIVIDUAL FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN TAPPED TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS, I THINK IT'S A WORTHY DEBATE, AND IF IT TAKES SOMEBODY ELSE OUTSIDE OF THIS GROUP LOOKING AT IT, I'D BE IN FAVOR OF IT, WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW ISN'T WORKING. SO WHY WOULD WE CONTINUE LIKE YOU SAID, TO PUT OUR HEAD IN THE SAND AND CONTINUE THE SAME PROCESS. IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FIX IT INSIDE THE SERVICE AREA, THEN THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING THE EXPANSION ON THE OUTSIDE, AND

YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE THOSE REQUESTS, SO THAT'S MY THOUGHT.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS -- FOR SOME REASON, WE'RE GETTING PERSONAL AND EMOTIONAL ABOUT IT, REALLY WHAT WE'RE DOING IS, WE HAVE A G GUIDE THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING, DO WE UNDERSTAND THE METRICS BEHIND IT? IT'S THAT SIMPLE. THE METRICS -- ARE THOSE METRICS HELPING OUR COMMUNITY OR NOT HELPING OUR COMMUNITY. ARE THEY HOLDING OUR COMMUNITY BACK OR DOING WHAT THEY -- I THINK THAT IS THE BASIS OF THE UNDERSTANDING OF IT, THAT WE'RE GETTING CAUGHT UP IN THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT, VERSUS THE WAY SOMEBODY ELSE FEELS ABOUT IT, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK OR I THINK, IT'S A GUIDE WE HAVE. DO WE UNDERSTAND THE GUIDE? BECAUSE IT -- YOU KNOW, NOW YA DAYS IT'S VERY EASY TO FOLLOW SOMETHING. BUT ARE YOU QUESTIONING WHAT YOU'RE FOLLOWING, AND ARE YOU QUESTIONING HOW THAT IS CREATING A MAP, AND THE METRICS THAT ARE USED FOR THAT, THAT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD? AND OUR JOB IS TO SERVE OUR COMMUNITY AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THE BEST WE CAN. THIS IS THE GUIDE FOR OUR COMMUNITY. THIS IS IF YOU'RE IN THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, THIS IS THE GUIDE. SO IT THIS SHOULDN'T BE LIKE AN ARGUMENT, SHOULD BE, HUH, THAT MAKES SENSE. WHY WE'RE DOING IT

NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER KUGLER?

FOR MY, IT'S A PRETTY SIMPLE QUESTION, ARE THEY WORKING IN TERMS OF THE GOALS WE WANT TO ACHIEVE, AND ACHIEVING THEM? OR IS IT A FAITH BASED ITEM? IS IT SOMETHING WE SIMPLY HAVE FAITH IN WITHOUT REALLY BEING SKEPTICAL ABOUT HOW IT'S WORKING? IF IT IS WORKING AS COMMISSIONER CONA MENTIONED, AND COMMISSIONER SIENK ALSO ECHOED THIS IDEA, THAT IT'S ENCOURAGING DEVELOPMENT AROUND THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, EXPANDING OUT INTO WHAT IS MORE NATURAL LANDS, THAT IS A PROBLEM, AND I WOULD SAY WE SHOULD HAVE A ROBUST RESPONSE IN TERMS OF PRESERVE LAND. AT THE JOINT PLANT CITY COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING RECENTLY, ABOUT A WEEK AGO OR SO, THE MAYOR OF PLANT CITY DID SAY THEY HAVE QUITE A ROBUST EFFORT TO PRESERVE LAND BETWEEN TAMPA AND PLANT CITY, TO KEEP THAT GREEN SPACE OPEN. THAT'S A GOOD SIGN.

NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER BOWDEN? DISCUSSION, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT GAVE ME SOME THOUGHT, AND IN WHAT I'VE SEEN WITHIN THE URBAN CORE, AND THEN WHAT'S HAPPENED OUTSIDE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, BASICALLY, IT'S THE DRIVING THING, THE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THE QUESTION BECOMES, ARE WE MAXIMIZING THE CORE FOR WHAT WE CAN DO? AND ARE WE DOING THAT -- ARE WE ACTUALLY MAXIMIZING THAT AS FAR AS INFRASTRUCTURE. I CAN THINK OF COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IN THE CORE THAT STILL HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES. WHEN WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE COST OUTSIDE OF THE URBAN CORE, WE UTILIZE THAT AS A TOOL TO RESTRICT DEVELOPMENT, IS IT REALLY DOING THAT AS FAR AS INFRASTRUCTURE? SO WHEN THERE ARE -- YOU GO OUTSIDE THE URBAN CORE, YOU CAN GET THE LAND CHIPER, AND THEN BRING IT INTO THE URBAN CORE, THE COST IS TO THE DEVELOPER LESS, BUT THE OVERALL THING IS THAT THE PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE URBAN CORE FOR 10, 15, 20 YEARS, STILL DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE. LOOK AT THE TOOL AND SAY, HOW CAN WE MAXIMIZE WHAT WE HAVE. THIS GOES BACK TO THE -- IS IT THE -- THE WATER HAZARD THING. YOU KNOW, THERE'S LAND WITHIN IT, THAT WE CAN MAXIMIZE THE UTILIZATION THERE, VERSUS ADDING ON ADDITIONAL PROPERTIES OR SPACE. PROPERTIES, WITHIN THAT AREA. SO I'M ALL FOR MAXIMIZING WHAT YOU PRESENTLY HAVE, AND BEING ABLE TO SAY THAT, WE'VE REACHED WHATEVER PERCENTAGE, 90, 95% BEFORE WE LOOK AT EXPANDING -- OR IF WE CAN'T DO THAT, THEN

MAYBE WE MIGHT LOOK AT ANOTHER TOOL, HOW WE CAN ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS HAPPEN FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THIS HOUSING AS A WHOLE. NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER LINKOUS.

I WANT TO TRY TO MAKE THIS MY LAST COMMENT. THIS DISCUSSION HAS BEEN INTERESTING. THERE'S NOTHING PERSONAL HERE. IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION IS REVERTING TO MY FIRST POINT I DEBATED ABOUT. THE IDEA WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT EFFICIENCY INSIDE THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, INSIDE THIS CONVERSATION, IF THAT'S WHERE THIS CONVERSATION IS GOING, I THINK THAT'S WELL TAKEN AND VERY INTERESTING. IT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE TONE OF THE CONVERSATION THAT WAS HAPPENING AROUND US, ISSUE IN PRIOR MEETINGS. ABSOLUTELY AGREE THAT LOOKING AT THIS, BUT I STILL KIND OF AGREE WE NEED TO BE A LITTLE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THE ISSUES WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT ARE. I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO GIVE STAFF, SO THAT WE CAN FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH WHATEVER WE'RE ABLE TO COME BACK TO US WITH.

IS THIS MORE A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION THAN IT IS A REQUEST FOR REPORTS? LIKE -- AS A BOARD, SHOULD WE BE ASKING TO CREATE QUESTIONS? LIKE YOUR 80/20 RULE. VERY VALID, I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THE ANSWER. THAT'S MORE OF A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION, THAN IT IS TO DO A WHOLE STUDY, RIGHT? SO MAYBE, IS OUR FIRST CHOICE, OR FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO INFORMATION SEARCHING TO UNDERSTAND IT OURSELVES, BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GIVE STAFF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE'RE GOING TO REQUEST THEM TO SEEK OR FIND A CONSULTANT TO DO IT?

YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT, THAT'S WHY I SAID IT WAS A MISS AT THIS LEVEL. I THOUGHT WE WERE A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF OURSELVES, TO COMMISSIONER LINKOUS' POINT. I HAVE THOSE SAME -- AND I ADORE COMMISSIONER LINKOUS, I KNOW WE GO BACK AND FORTH IN DEBATE. I HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR COMMISSION LINKOUS, AND SHE KNOWS THAT. I WOULDN'T BE ON THIS BOARD IF IT WASN'T FOR COMMISSIONER LINKOUS. YOU CAN BLAME HER. TO HER POINT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AND I'M EXACTLY THE SAME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME IS, FOR US TO JUMP TO, LET'S GET RID OF THE URBAN SERVICE AREA, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME EITHER. I THINK IT'S WHAT COMMISSIONER SIENK SAID, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS, I WOULD EXPECT WE'RE GOING TO FIND THAT WE'RE GOING TO FIND WE NEED TO BE MORE EFFICIENT WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING, AND I'VE HAD PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS WITH MISS ZORN ZORNITTA, IF YOU ASK ME WHAT MY OPINION IS, WHAT SHOULD COME OUT AT THE END OF THIS, IT'S GOING TO BE A LABORED APPROACH OVERTIME. WE'RE NOT JUST WAITING 30 YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TRANCHES SET UP IN YEARS, IN AREAS, WHERE WE CAN UNDERSTAND HOW WE WANT THINGS TO MOVE. IT WOULD GIVE THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THINGS SHOULD MOVE. I WANTED STAFF TO COME BACK WITH THIS. YOU DO AN CURRENT JOB OF THE EVERY DAY WORK YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. THIS IS WELL BEYOND YOUR EVERY DAY HAVING TO DEAL WITH APPLICATIONS AND THINGS. YOU REACTED AND RESPONDED TO IT WELL. THIS IS THE FIRST BITE AT THE APPLE. THIS ISN'T FALLING ON TH SORT HERE OR ANYTHING. THERE'S STILL TIME, WE'RE DISCUSSING THIS INSIDE OURSELVES AS BOARD AND AGENCY. I HAVE NO PROBLEM PUSHING THIS OUT AND LETTING YOU TAKE ANOTHER BITE AT IT, AND COME BACK AGAIN AND WE HAVE ANOTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS. COMMISSIONER SIEBEN?

I UNDERSTAND THE REQUEST FOR INFORMATION, SOME OF THIS IS STUFF WE DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED YET, I DON'T THINK, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO CONNECT TO MUNICIPAL WATER UNLESS YOU'RE IN THE URBAN SERVICE AREA. THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE THOUGHT THAT GOES INTO THESE THINGS, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN SIT HERE TODAY AND COME UP WITH A LIST OF QUESTIONS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE AND TRIGGER THE RIGHT THOUGHT PROCESSES HERE. YOU GUYS ARE CLOSER TO IT, MABE THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS ARE SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL COULD COME UP WITH POTENTIALLY, AND SAY, IS THIS HAVING -- MAYBE WE TALK TO THE COUNTY, IS THIS HAVING NEGATIVE EFFECTS, CONSEQUENCES, THAT WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT? COULD THIS BE BETTER HANDLED. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH AN EXHAUSTIVE LIST SITTING HERE, THINGS THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED OR WAYS WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS BETTER.

AND I GUESS MY QUESTION FOR THE GROUP AT THIS POINT, I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF GREAT FEEDBACK THROUGH THIS BUT I THINK FROM OUR STAFF PERSPECTIVE, GIVEN THE WORK LOAD THE STAFF HAS TODAY, THE REASON WE WENT WITH AN APPROACH OF MOVING TOWARD A CONSULTANT, WE'RE CLOSE TO IT. WE THINK THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT WITH FRESH EYES. PROBABLY HAVING WORKED IN A LOT OF OTHER COMMUNITIES, BESIDES HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. BUT TWO RTWO, IF WE'RE ASKED TO THIS, IT WILL BUMP OTHER PROJECTS THAT ARE IN LINE TO BE WORKED ON, IF WE'RE DOING IT ALL IN HOUSE FOR STAFF. I HAVE TRIED TO COMPARTMENTALIZE THE WORK INTO WHAT WE COULD BRING BACK IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME. HAPPY TO TAKE ANOTHER SWING AT THE SCOPE. BUT I THINK IT WOULD -- WE WOULD ALL BE BETTER SERVED BY US CONTRACTING WITH AN OUTSIDE PERSON, EVEN TO -- WE'LL PULL ALL THE BOXES, DIEGO ALREADY GOT THEM FROM THE WAREHOUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DID A GOOD BIT OF RESEARCH, BUT I GUESS IT'S A QUESTION OF HOW MUCH ADDITIONAL STAFF TIME WE SHOULD PUT INTO THAT, VERSUS SOMEBODY COMING IN AND DOING IT WITH FRESH EYES, LOOK AT IT WITH A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. SO THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION, GIVEN WHAT IS ON STAFF'S PLATES RIGHT NOW.

NIGEL JOSEPH: YOU KNOW WHERE I FALL ON THAT, I LIKE OUTSIDE EYES. STAFF IS TOO CLOSE TO THIS, STAFF'S INSTINCT IS GOING TO BE GOING TO WHAT IS DONE IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO EVERY DAY. BECAUSE OF THAT, IT'S A BIAS ON THEIR PART WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING OUTSIDE THE BOX. THEY MAY NOT BE AS NIMBLE OR AS QUICK TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW EXTENSIVE IT HAS TO BE. AGAIN, IT'S MORE KIND OF INFORMATION FINDING, SO I DON'T. YOU KNOW, KNOW IF IT HAS TO BE THIS WHOLE BIG PHASED THING, I WOULD DEFINITELY THINK YOU'RE GOING TO NEED SOME -- ESPECIALLY AFTER READING THROUGH THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS GIVES ME A LITTLE BIT OF PAUSE, BECAUSE THIS IS VERY CLOSE TO WHAT EXISTS NOW, I READ THROUGH THIS, I'M ALMOST LIKE, THIS IS ALMOST CIRCULAR, WE NEED TO BREAK THAT CIRCLE AND GO OUTSIDE OF THAT, AND UNDERSTAND THINGS A LITTLE MORE BROADLY. THAT'S WHERE I FALL ON IT. COMMISSIONER KUGLER?

WOULD IT BE AS SIMPLE AS A STRAIGHTFORWARD ANALYSIS? WE KNOW BY DEFINITION WHAT THE USA IS SUPPOSED TO DO, WHAT IS IT DOING, AND SIMPLY THAT GAP IS WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. THE SIMPLE DIFFERENCE OF WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO VERSUS WHAT IT'S DOING. IT WILL LEAD US TOWARD ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. COMMISSION CARDENAS.

I GUESS MY THOUGHT IS, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALMOST SEARCHING FOR MORE OF AN OBJECTIVE, IS THIS THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, SERVING THE CITIZENS OF THIS COMMUNITY AS WE GROW TO THE BEST OF ITS ABILITY SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. WE'RE AIMING FOR AN OBJECTIVE, WHAT PRESENTS ITSELF IS GOING TO BE GUIDED BASED ON THAT, IF WE TRY TO AIM TOO SMALL, WE'RE GOING TO MISS IT. GOOD POINT. COMMISSIONER SIENK?

RICH JUST BROUGHT UP A REALLY GOOD POINT. ARE ANY OF THE QUESTIONS WE'RE SEARCHING FOR, PART OF OUR CURRENT STUDIES WE HAVE GOING ON NOW FOR THE LITTLE MANATEE OR THE I-4 EXPANSION? DO THESE TOPICS GET TACKLED IN THAT ANALYSIS TOO? OR CAN WE LOOK AT THAT STUDY AND FINDS ANY NUGGETS OF INFORMATION THAT WE DON'T -- WITHOUT A WHOLE NEW CONTRACT OR SOMETHING?

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ROOM IN THAT CONTRACT TO ASK THEM TO COMPLETELY TACKLE ALL THE BIG PICTURE QUESTION THAT HAS BEEN ASKED HERE. BUT I DO THINK THE RESULTS OF THAT WILL BE INFORMATIVE. BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT AND HAVE -- WE'VE GIVEN THEM FREE REIGN, LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S JUST MOVE THE URBAN SERVICE AREA LINE OR DO WE COME UP WITH A WHOLE NEW POLICY STRUCTURE FOR THIS AREA THAT WORKS BETTER, THAT ALLOWS FOR, YOU KNOW,S FOR A DIFFERENT APPROACH FOR MOBILITY FEES AND PLANNING FOR TRANSPORTATION. IS THAT A -- DO THEY COME UP AND PROPOSE A DIFFERENT APPROACH, AND THAT COULD INFORM KIND OF WHAT WE DO IN THIS LARGER QUESTION? THEY MAY COME UP WITH SOME OF THE ALTERNATIVES.

WE HAVE -- AND DO WE KNOW WHEN THESE ARE GOING TO COME BACK, OR WHEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE FIRST LOOK AT IT, TO HELP US GUIDE -- GIVING STAFF QUESTIONS?

SURE, SO WE JUST HAD THE FIRST OUTREACH ON THE LITTLE MANATEE SOUTH AREA. WE'RE ANTICIPATING THE OUTREACH IN I-4, IN APRIL, BASED ON THE FACT THAT WE'RE TRYING TOO COORDINATE THAT WITH THE PLANT CITY PLAN, AND NOT CONFUSE THE PUBLIC ABOUT THESE TWO EFFORTS THAT ARE GOING ON. THE RESULTS OF THAT WILL SHAPE SOME OF THE SCENARIOS THAT THEY LOOK AT, THE SCENARIOS WILL HAVE WITH THEM DIFFERENT POLICY APPROACHES, SO YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE SOME OF THOSE FIRST DRAFT IDEAS, MID TO LATE SUMMER. AND THEN THE ENTIRE STUDY IS SUPPOSED TO CONCLUDE BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

NIGEL JOSEPH: I'M GOING TO JUMP BACK REALLY QUICK AND PUSH BACK ON WHAT YOU SAID, THOSE STUDIES WERE THE IMPETUS FOR WHAT STARTED THIS, THOSE TWO STUDIES, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MISS ZORNITTA. THOSE TWO STUDIES WERE DIRECTED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, TO BRING BACK AN ACTION TO EXPAND THE URBAN SERVICE BOUNDARY, I THAT CORRECT OR INCORRECT? TO COME UP WITH URBAN EXPANSION AREAS. IT MAY MOVE THE LINE OR IT MAY COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT APPROACH FOR THAT.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE AND WHAT'S GOING ON, SHE'S RIGHT, WE CAN CHERRY PICK INFORMATION FROM THE STUDIES AS THEY GO ALONG. THE END GAME IS TO EXPAND THE URBAN SERVICE AREA PERIOD, OKAY? PERIOD. THERE'S GOING TO BE AN EXPANSION OF THE URBAN SERVICE AREA PERIOD. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS UNDERSTANDING WHETHER THE TOOL IS DOING WHAT WE THINK IT SHOULD BE DOING. THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MISSED. THEY DECIDED AMONG THEMSELVES, WE'RE GOING TO EXPAND IT, POPULATION IS GROWING, WE NEED TO EXPAND IT. WHAT WE'RE ASKING HERE IS, IS THE TOOL FUNCTIONING AS WE THINK IT SHOULD BE FUNCTIONING? WE'LL GET A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM THE TWO STUDIES, THEY DON'T CARE IF THE TOOL IS WORKING. THEY CARE ABOUT GETTING MORE DEVELOPABLE LAND. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED. MISS ZORNITTA IS NODDING HER HEAD, I AM RIGHT ABOUT THAT. I'M JUST CHECKING. COMMISSIONER CARDENAS?

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE TO LOOK AT AREAS VERSUS LOOKING AT WHETHER WHAT WE'RE DOING WORKS. NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. HAVE WE COMPLETELY WORN EVERYONE OUT THIS YEAR? I TOLD YOU IN DECEMBER IT WAS COMING. DO WE -- NIGEL JOSEPH: DO YOU ALL HAVE DIRECTION? I MEAN, IT ALMOST FEELS LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE A WORKSHOP, A WORKSHOP ON THIS.

I MEA, BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF A BRAINSTORM, MORE OF AN OBJECTIVE, WHAT'S OUR OBJECTIVE. WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT? AND IT, IN - I'M SURPRISED IT'S TAKEN THIS LONG FOR IT TO PRESENT ITSELF, I'M HAPPY WE'RE HAVING A CONVERSATION, BUT THE SAME WAY IT'S SET IN PLACE TO CONTROL OUR GROWTH -- WHAT'S BEING MISSED? I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT IN A WORKSHOP WHAT'S BEING MISSED. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT, WHAT THE OBJECTIVES ARE.

THE WORKSHOP MAY BE A GOOD IDEA. JUST THROWING OUT AN IDEA, WE COULD DO A VERY SMALL SCPE OF SERVICES WITH A FACILITATOR TO COME IN AND FACILITATE A WORKSHOP ON THIS TOPIC, AND KIND OF DEVELOP OUT THE OBJECTIVES FOR THE LARGER EVALUATION. AND SEE HOW QUICKLY WE CAN ALIGN THAT WITH ONE OF YOUR MEETINGS.

THAT FACILITATOR, WE'RE NOT THE ONLY PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT HAS HAD TO GO THROUGH SOMETHING OR DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. WHAT ELSE HAS BEEN DONE WHERE, AND WHAT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL. WHY REINVENT THE WHEEL? YEAH, I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY, THEY'RE CONSULTANTS WHO CAN DO THAT. I'M -- I FEEL LIKE WE MAY BE LOOKING FOR TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, WE MAY BE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO FACILITATE A MEETING, AND -- BUT IF YOU WANT THEM TO COME IN WITH INFORMED INFORMATION LIKE THAT, THERE MAYBE BE DIFFERENT STILL SETS WE PULL IN.

CAN WE REACH OUT TO A CONSULTANT THE WHO'S FACILITATED THIS KIND OF THING IN THE PAST, AND HELP US FIGURE OUT WHAT WE NEED? WE'LL CONTRACT YOU FOR X AMOUNT OF HOURS AND YOU HELP US FIGURE OUT WHAT WE NEED.

YES, UNDER THE CONTRACTING POLICIES OF THE PLANNING QUESTION, WE HAVE AN APPROVED PROVIDER LIST, WE CAN SEE IF ANY OF THEM WOULD MEET THE -- HAVE THAT KIND OF INFORMATION AND BE ABLE TO DO THAT. AND WE CAN -- IF -- FOR SOMETHING THAT'S LESS THAN $50,000, WE CAN INTERVIEW THREE AND PULL FROM THAT LIST. IT GETS MORE COMPLICATED WHEN IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE. START STARTING WITH SOMETHING SMALL LIKE THAT, YES.

I WONDER IF WE COULD ALL GET ON THE SAME BASELINE, SO WE HAVE CLEAR UNDERSTANDINGS OF WORDS, HOW IT PLAYS OUT. WE CAN ALL CHOSE WORDS THAT HAVE THE SAME OUTCOME, WE ALL HAVE VARYING UNDERSTANDING OF THE TOPIC, IF WE HAVE A BASELINE OF ALL OF US, IT MAY BE VALUABLE SO WE CAN HAVE BETTER CONVERSATIONS. NIGEL JOSEPH: HOW ARE YOU DOING UP THERE MISS DICKENS? I'M ALL RIGHT.

IF WE HAD A TRAINING SESSION ON ALL THE DETAILS AND THE INS AND OUTS OF HOW IT WORKS, AND ON THE SAME DAY, HAVE THE CONSULTANT ATHE COME IN, AND TALK WITH US THROUGH WHAT NEXT STEPS WOULD LIKE LIKE, AND WHAT QUESTIONS WE WANT ANSWERED AFTER WE'VE BEEN ENLIGHTENED.

AND I THINK I'LL ADD, THAT WILL REALLY HELP STAFF, THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS SO CHALLENGING. THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS. WE DO GO BY WHAT IS ADOPTED, IT'S OUR CHARGE. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE WHAT'S IMPORTANT. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT WOULD HELP PROVIDE CLARITY. COMMISSIONER SIEBEN. LAST THING TO NOTE. I THINK IT MAY BE HELPFUL IF WE HAD SOMEONE FROM COUNTY STAFF COME IN AND TALK TO US ABOUT THE APPLICABILITY. HOW THIS PLAYS OUT IN REALTIME. YOU ARE READING MY MIND. I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIHT. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY, KUDOS AGAIN ON THE REPORT, MISS DICKENS. I SET IT OFF, AND WENT IN ON IT, AS I SAY AT ALL THE MEETINGS, AS I'VE SAID RECENTLY, THE ONLY REASON I'M ABLE TO DO THAT, YOU ALL AS STAFF DO AN EXCELLENT JOB WITH SETTING THESE THINGS UP AND MAKING THEM CONSUMABLE. IF IT WAS SCATTERED, DIDN'T MAKE SENSE, WE WOULD BE UP HERE ARGUING DIFFERENT THINGS, BECAUSE YOU DO SUCH A GOOD JOB AT LAYING THESE THINGS OUT, SOMEONE LIKE ME COULD COME THROUGH AND READ AND SEE THINGS I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH. IT'S A TESTAMENT TO YOUR GOOD WORK. WHEN ICORAN, WHEN YOU DO A GOOD JOB, YOU END UP GETTING MORE WORK. YOU DID A GOOD JOB ON THIS REPORT, I DON'T AGREE WITH IT, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE WORK ITSELF WASN'T GOOD, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT AGAIN.

SO IF I CAN, JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M RECAPPING IT, AND WHERE WE HAVE CLARITY ON WHERE WE GO NEXT, IT MIGHT BE THAT WE CAN IS GET COUNTY STAFF HERE MORE QUICKLY TO HAVE SOME MAYBE EDUCATION ON HOW THEY'RE USING THE TOOL, WE CAN PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION, DO SOME EDUCATION ON IT, I THINK IT MAY BE GOOD TO HAVE THAT FROM AN OUTSIDE SOURCE AS WELL. BUT -- SO WE CAN SEE IF WE CAN PERHAPS HAVE SOMEBODY FROM THE -- SOME FOLKS FROM THE COUNTY EXPLAIN HOW THEY'RE USING IT IN MARCH, BUT I THINK IT MIGHT -- MELISSA GAVE ME A LOOK THERE, MAYBE NOT. SO OKAY, I WON'T OVER PROMISE, BUT IT JUST MAY TAKE US A COUPLE MONTHS TO BRING THIS BACK TO FIND THE RIHT PERSON AND GET ALL THE SCHEDULES TO ALIGN.

NIGEL JOSEPH: COMMISSIONER SIEBEN? LAST THING. I THINK MAYBE SOMEBODY FROM COUNTY STAFF TO TALK ABOUT HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED, ON A PRACTICAL BASIS, WHEN PLANS ARE APPROVED ET CETERA, AND MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE OR THE SAME PERSON, TO TALK TO US ABOUT THE IMPACT FEES, AND HOW FEES ARE CONSIDERED SO WE CAN DO A WHOLE COMPARE AND CONTRAST ABOUT DIFFERENT LEVERS WE CAN USE.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THOSE MAY BE THE GOOD OUTSIDE SOURCES TO USE, LIKE YOU SAID, IT MAY BE ABOUT FINDING THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE COUNTY THAT USES THEM, AND UNDERSTANDING WHETHER IT WORKS OR DOESN'T WORK FOR THEM, MAY BE A WAY OF GETTING OUTSIDE OUR AGENCY AND GETTING SOME FEEDBACK OWN THESE THINGS. ALSO, IF YOU'RE TALKING TO THE COUNTY STAFF, IF THEY CAN PROVIDE OR THEY REQUEST TALK TO WHERE THEY ARE IN REGARDS TO PROVIDING INFRASTRUCTURE IN AREAS. YEAH.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? MISS ZORNITTA, MISS DICKENS? GLAD I WORE COMFY SHOES. I'M GOOD. NIGEL JOSEPH: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN APRIL/MAY TIME FRAME? YEAH. NIGEL JOSEPH: WE ALSO HAVE A ROOM RENOVATION IN THERE. I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN MY REPORT.

NIGEL JOSEPH: GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS ONE. WE'LL PUSH IT OFF UNTIL APRIL/MAY. WE WILL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM. THAT IS THE LAST ACTION ITEM, SO EVERYONE CAN RELAX. WE'RE ON TO BRIEFINGS AND PRESENTATIONS, 5A IS AN UPDATE ON THE URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING PROGRAM AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA. THE PRESENTER IS COMMISSION LINKOUS. IF YOU ALL ARE NOT TIRED OF HEARING FROM ME. I'VE NEVER COME UP HERE, LET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND HOW TO OPEN THIS. I KNOW WE'RE RUNNING TIGHT ON TIME, SO I'LL TRY TO BE QUICK. I'M PLANNING COMMISSIONER AND DIRECTOR OF URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING AT USF. I WAS ACTUALLY RECENTLY INVITED BEFORE TAMPA CITY COUNCIL, TO DO A PRESENTATION BECAUSE OUR PROGRAM HAS WILL RECENT ACHIEVEMENTS. YOU ALL MAY BE INTERESTED IN HEARING ABOUT THE URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING PROGRAM IN YOUR BACKYARD. I THOUGHT I'D SHARE SOME INFORMATION, GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE USF URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING PROGRAM TO YOU, COMMISSIONERS AND REGIONAL PLANNING COMMUNITY. WE HAVE A MASTER OF URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING PROGRAM, THAT'S OUR MAJOR PROGRAM, IT STARTED IN 2009, AND WE HAVE ALMOST 200 ALURMNY AT THIS POINT. WE CALLED OURSELF A RELATIVELY SMALLER PROGRAM, BUT I WAS LOOKING AT NUMBERS, KIND OF ON AVERAGE, WE'RE MID SIZE AT THIS POINT. WE'VE GROWN. WE ALSO HAVE AN UNDERGRADUATE, URBAN STUDIES MINOR, THAT'S

SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING TO GROW EVERY TIME A COURSE FILLS UP. I'VE GOT SOME QUOTES HERE, FROM SOME OF OUR STUDENTS, INCLUDING DIEGO WHO IS PART OF THE STAFF HERE NOW. SO WE HAVE SOME BRAGGING POINTS ON THIS SIDE, 100% JOB PLACEMENT, THAT'S THE MEASURE WE HAVE TO REPORT TO OUR PLANNING ACCREDITATION BOARD BASED ON OUR DOMESTIC STUDENTS. WE HAVE THREE CERTIFICATE PROGRAMS, WE HAVE SMART CITIES AND THAT'S REALLY THE TECHNOLOGY KIND OF SIDE OF URBAN PLANNING, SOFTWARE, DATA VISUALIZATION, GIS, LIE DARE. WE HAVE COASTAL PLANNING RESILIENCY CERTIFICATE. AND WE HAVE A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CERTIFICATE. WE HAVE SOME NEW TOPICS THAT ADDRESS THE CURRENT ISSUES THAT FACE FLORIDIANS AS WELL AS LONGSTANDING ISSUES. AND THOSE CERTIFICATES CAN BE TAKEN BY FOLKS WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN THE DEGREE PROGRAM, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE ALSO WIDELY USED BY FOLKS IN THE DEGREE PROGRAM. THIS IS OUR BIG BRAGGING POINT THAT WE JUST WENT THROUGH A REACCREDITATION PROCESS. AND THAT ONE FOUND POINTS FOR IMPROVEMENT. AS THESE PROCESSES ALWAYS DO, AND WE WERE UP FOR REACCREDITATION, AND WE EARNED THE EXEMPLARY, 7 YEAR MAXIMUM TERM. THIS IS JUST A SIGNAL OF THE QUALITY OF OUR PROGRAM, IN TERMS OF MANY AREAS, FACILITIES, STUDENTS, FACULTY, AND IN THE REPORT THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH OUR REACCREDITATION, THEY CITED, NUMEROUS AREAS OF SKENS IN PARTNERSHIPS AND OUR DEMONSTRATED COMMITMENT TO STUDENT SUCCESS.

I'M NOT GOING TO BELABOR THIS. WE'VE WON AWARDS AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL THIS IS A TEAM THAT A COUPLE YEARS AGO, WON THE NATIONAL PLANNING -- THE NATIONAL APA STUDENT DESIGN COMPETITION, THEY PLACED 3rd. WE HAVE WON A LOT OF STATE AWARDS URGS INCLUDING JUST LAST YEAR, WE WON STUDENT PLANNER OF THE YEAR, AND WE ALSO WON THAT TWO YEARS BEFORE THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE STUDENTS THAT HAVE BEEN RECOGNIZED, THE TOP PLANNING STUDENTS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA AT USF, WE WIN LOCAL AWARDS AS WELL. WAS IT LAST WEEK OR THE WEEK BEFORE, OUR FACULTY MEMBER, WHO FOUNDED THE PROGRAM, WAS RECOGNIZED WITH APA SUNCOAST LEGACY AWARD. SHE FOUNDED THE PROGRAM AND SET THE STANDARDS FOR THE SUCCESS WE'VE HAD. A STUDIO PROGRAM HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED. YOU HAVE TO AT USF HAVE AN EXIT REQUIREMENT FOR A DEGREE. WE HAVE THESE OLD DREARY EXAMS STUDENTS WEREN'T HAPPY WITH. WE IMPLEMENTED A REAL DELIVERABLE THEY HAVE TO WORK ON, PROJECT MANAGEMENT SKILLS, OUR FIRST OFFICIAL STUDIO WON THE APA STUDENT PROJECT AWARD. FOR THAT, WE WORKED WITH THE ST. PETE INNOVATION DISTRICT. AND THE STUDENTS CAME UP WITH ALL KINDS OF PROJECTS ABOUT IDENTITY AND WAVE FINDING FOR THE ST. PETE DISTRICT. NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART, AS TEMPLE TERRACE'S PLANNING COMMISSIONER, WE'RE DOING A STUDY IN TEMPLE TERRACE, AND LOOKING AT THE FOWLER AVENUE CORRIDOR REDEVELOPMENT FUTURE LAND USE POLICY. THE STUDENTS ARE JUST A LITTLE OVER A MONTH INTO THAT WORK AND

GOING TO COME UP WITH IDEAS AND SOLUTIONS TO COMPLIMENT THE MANY ON GOING EFFORTS IN THE COMMUNITY THERE. WE ALSO HAVE A FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM THAT WAS ONE OF THE POINTS THE ACCREDITATION PROGRAM CITED. THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ABOUT OUR PROGRAM, WE HAVE PARTNERSHIPS ACROSS THE REGION. PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SECTOR PARTNERS, WORKING WITH OUR PROGRAM TO EMPLOY OUR STUDENTS, ESSENTIALLY. THEY GIVE THEM TUITION REIMBURSEMENT, STUDENTS HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL REDEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITY WITH THESE PARTNERS, WE ARE IN SORT OF AN OPEN CALL, AND I GOT LOTS OF FOLKS WANTING TO SIGN UP AGAIN TO BE PART OF THAT PARTNERSHIP, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS IN HERE FROM THE STUDENTS WHO DO THIS. RACHEL IS A RECENT ALUM, SHE WORKED AS A FELLOW WITH BENESH. MICHAEL IS CURRENTLY WITH FORWARD PINELLAS. MARK IS WORKING WITH PINELLAS, HE WAS WITH EXP ON THE PIVATE SIDE. WE HAVE STUDENTS PLACED ALL AROUND THE COMMUNITY DOING INTERESTING WORK, AND REALLY BENEFITING FROM THIS FELLOWSHIP EXPERIENCE. WE WERE HIGHLIGHTED BY THE PLANNING ACCREDITATION BOARD, AS THE ONLY PROGRAM IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAS THIS MODEL. WE HAVE ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS, AND THESE ARE SOME STUDENTS THAT WON THOSE ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS, AND THOSE COME FROM OUR COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS AND SUPPORT, WE'RE HAPPY TO HAVE A 100% PASS RATE ON THE AIPC EXAM. THAT'S WHY WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THE REACCREDITATION, ONCE YOU'RE AN ACCREDITED PROGRAM, THE STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE FROM THE PROGRAM, HAVE A FAST TRACK TO BECOMING CERTIFIED PLANNERS, WE'RE GEARED AT TRAINING PROFESSIONALS TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL.

WE ALSO HAVE A MENTORSHIP PROGRAM WITH APA SUNCOAST, STUDENTS CAN DO THAT FOR TWO YEARS WHILE THEY'RE IN THE PROGRAM. THEY LEAD STUDENT LED INITIATIVES ABOUT LEARNING ABOUT THE CAREER. THIS IS A PICTURE FROM A COUPLE DAYS AGO, I THINK IT WAS THURSDAY LAST WEEK. 50 PLUS MEMBERS, WE HAVE FOLKS REPRESENTING ALL PARTS OF THE REGION. DOWN FROM SARASOTA AND UP TO -- TO PASCO COUNTY. AND PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERS, FOLKS IN EDUCATION SIDE, PROFESSIONAL SIDE, WE HAVE TREMENDOUS INTEREST IN OUR PROGRAM, AND THIS GROUP HAS BEEN INFLUENTIAL IN SHAPING OUR CURRICULUM, AND DOING THINGS MORE EFFECTIVELY IN THE COMMUNITY AND SHAPING OUR STUDIO PROGRAM AS THAT HAS EVOLVED. WE MEET WITH THEM TWICE A YEAR, AND SEEK THEIR FEEDBACK. WE'RE ALWAYS WELCOME TO HAVE NEW MEMBERS IF THAT'S THE INTEREST. THAT'S THE PROGRAM, I WENT KIND OF QUICK, BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE TIGHT ON TIME. KNEW HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM FOR YOU.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? YOU AND I GO BACK VERY FAR. I KNOW EVERYBODY THOUGHT WE WERE BICKERING LIKE SIBLINGS UP HERE, BUT THAT'S WHERE -- WAY BACK IN 2015, I STARTED MY PHZ, I TOOK DR. LINKOUS' PLANNING HISTORY REPORT, MY BACKGROUND IS IN ARCHITECTURE, WHAT EASIER OF AN A BUT A PLANNING COURSE, BECAUSE I KNOW ALL THAT STUFF ALREADY. I WOULD COME INTO HER CLASS AND WAIT FOR THE FIRST CLASS TO LEAVE, GRAB THE FIRST SEAT IN FRONT OF HER LECTERN, AS SOON AS SHE BROUGHT UP SOMETHING I DISAGREED WITH, WE WERE BICKERING BACK AND FORTH IN FRONT OF THE CLASS. I SHOULD APPLY FOR THE OPENING ON THIS PLANNING BOARD. THAT'S HOW I GOT HERE. SHE WILL ALWAYS HAVE MY ADMIRATION AND RESPECT, IRREGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH WE GO BACK AND FORTH UP HERE. AND THE PROGRAM SHE'S HELPED TO BUILD AT USF IS AN EXEMPLARY ONE. THEY DO A LOT OF GREAT WORK, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT COME IN AS INTERNS AND TURN INTO EMPLOYEES. I THINK WE HAVE ONE THAT JUST CAME IN. YOU'RE A DEFINITE BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY. AND YOU DO A REALLY GREAT JOB. I'M GLAD TO HEAR IT'S GOING WELL, AND GROWING MORE ROOTS INTO THE COMMUNITY. REALLY EXCELLENT WORK.

THANK YOU. NIGEL JOSEPH: ANY OTHER THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? EVERYONE SEEMS WORN OUT AFTER THAT FIRST ITEM. THANK YOU. NEXT UP ON OUR AGENDA, WE HAVE 5B TEMPLE TERRACE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 12-921, OFFSTREET PARKING. THE PRESENTER IS YENEKA MILLS.

PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF, I'M HERE TO INTRODUCE MR. KEN FORD, WHO WILL BE PRESENTING THE PROPOSED LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT. THIS IS A BRIEFING FOR YOU THIS AFTERNOON. NO ACTION IS REQUIRED. TIM. HOW DO I CHANGE THE SLIDES?

WE NEED SOME MAJOR REVISIONS TO OUR DRIVEWAY CODE. WE REVIEW APPLICATIONS FOR OUR DRIVEWAY, AND THE CODE DOES NOT ADDRESS STREET WATER, THERE'S FLOODING IN GARAGES AND PEOPLE'S HOMES, BECAUSE DRIVEWAYS ARE NOT SLOPED UPWARD, AND WE HAVE SOME REVISIONS THAT GO ALONG WITH OTHER ITEMS IN THE CODE WE NEED THEM CUT OUT BEFORE. THIS IS TO HELP WITH THE REVIEW OF THE APPLICATIONS, WITH THE CONTRACTOR, THE HOMEOWNER, GET A BETTER PRODUCT, AND MAKE THE REVIEWS MORE QUICKLY REVIEWED AND COMPLETED. THIS IS A GOOD DETAIL OF THE DRIVEWAY APRON. IT FITS WELL WITH WHAT WE NEED. WE HAVE SLIGHTLY INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF -- THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAYS, THAT ARE ALLOWED WITH THE PERCENTAGE INCREASE FROM 25 TO 30% TO ALLOW MORE PARKING, NOT ON THE STREET. BUT IN PROPERTIES. YOU CAN SEE WE'RE STRIKING THROUGH THE PREVIOUS DETAIL THAT HAS A COUPLE OF ERRORS ON IT, AND REPLACING IT WITH THE DRIVEWAY DETAIL.OUGH COUNTY - ANY QUESTIONS?

THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? NOT SEEING ANY, THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. LOOK FORWARD TO THIS COMING BACK TO US FOR PRESENTATION. NEXT UP 5C, PLAN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY 2025 REPORT. THE PRESENTER IS CARKATRINA CORCORAN.

GOOD AFTERNOON, ONE SECOND WHILE I PULL THIS UP. GOOD AFTERNOON, KATRINA CORCORAN, PLANNING COMMISSION STAFF. I'M HERE TO PRESENT ON THE ANNUAL HILLSBOROUGH 2025 REPORT. IT IS BROKEN DOWN BY PILLARS AND GOALS. AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION, WE TALK ABOUT THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND THINGS. STUDIES AND THINGS WE HAVE DONE AS AN AGENCY. IT WILL BE BROKEN DOWN BY THESE PILLARS AS WE GO THROUGHOUT. THEY INCLUDE INTEGRATED CONNECTED COMMUNITIES. RESILIENT NATURAL AND BUILT ENVIRONMENT AND TECHNOLOGY AND OPERATIONAL ENHANCEMENTS. WITH THAT, I'LL START OFF WITH SOME BY THE NUMBERS HIGHLIGHTS, WE SERVED OVER 2100 CLIENTS. WE HAD OVER 90 PRESENTATIONS TO OUTSIDE GROUPS. OVER 65 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS, INCLUDING 370 REVIEWS AND OVER 1300 MAPS CREATED. STARTING OFF WITH THE FIRST PILLAR OF INTEGRATED AND CONNECTED COMMUNITIES. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF PROJECTS THAT FALL INTO THIS PILLAR, INCLUDING THE FLU SECTION UPDATE AND COMMUNITY OUTREACH, WITH THAT, STAFF RELEASE SURVEYS RELEASED DRAFTS OF THE FLU FOR PUBLIC REVIEW. WE HAVE OUR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY URBAN EXPANSION AREAS, THOSE FOCUS ON I-4 AND LITTLE MANATEE SOUTH. WE HAVE OUR RIVERVIEW COMMUNITY PLAN, WHICH WAS AT THE BOCC'S REQUEST, STAFF ARE WORKING ON UPDATING THAT COMMUNITY PLANNING, WHILE THE TAMPA/HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY EXPRESSWAY AUTHORITY -- WE HAVE THE TPO'S BRIGHT LINE SERVICE AREA, WHERE THE TPO CONSIDERED POTENTIAL USERS AND INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS. AND FINALLY, WE HAVE THE TEMPLE TERRACE MULTIMODAL CONNECTION

STUDY, WHERE WE LOOKED AT THE POTENTIAL FOR A NEW TRAIL NETWORK FOR DESTINATIONS IN TEMPLE TERRACE. OUR SECOND PILLAR HERE IS PARTNERSHIPS IN COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, THE FIRST ITEM BEING THE PLANT CITY UPDATE PLAN AND ENVISIONING SURVEY. WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON UPDATING THE VISION FOR THE PLANT CITY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WE HAD A SURVEY WITH OVER 1700 RESPONSES, AS WELL AS A JOINT WORKSHOP WITHIN THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS. FOR THE FSU HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY FLU STUDY, WE WORKED WITH STUDENTS ON AREAS THAT MAY REQUIRE UPDATES TO THE FLU MAP. WE WORKED WITH OUR FLIP PROGRAM, FROM 4 TO 5 DAYS AND CREATED AN ALUMNI CONNECTION PROGRAM, THAT LOOKS INTO WHERE OUR STUDENTS HAVE GONE WITH THEIR CAREERS. FINALLY, WE HAVE SCHOOLS COORDINATION, WE CONTINUE TO COLLABORATE WITH HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, INCLUDING THE USA EXPANSION WORK, THE UAE STUDY WORK AND VARIOUS SCHOOL INITIAT INITIATIVES. THE PILLAR IS NATURAL ENVIRONMENT. STARTING OFF WITH THE CITY OF TAMPA SECTION UPDATES. WE HAVE RECREATION OPEN SPACE. ALL OF THOSE WERE HEARD IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCIL LATE LAST MONTH, AND WILL BE BACK IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCIL FOR SECOND ADOPTION HEARING THIS MONTH. WE HAVE OUR FISCAL MODEL, STAFF UPDATED THIS MODEL WITH DIM GRAPHIC ESTIMATES AND BUDGET FIGURES FOR THAT WORK. FOR THE USF STUDIO AND TAMPA'S ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AREAS, STAFF WORKED WITH STUDENTS TO OUR FOURTH AND FINAL PILLAR IS TECHNOLOGY AND OPERATIONAL ENHANCEMENTS.

WE ARE HAVE A REAL ESTATE CLASSIFICATION WORKING GROUP. WE CREATED A CAREER CONVERSATION GUIDES FOR CAREER SUPERVISORS AND PAID REQUESTS FOR STANDARDS ACROSS THE AGENCY. WE HAVE A REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS OR RFP PROCESS THAT WAS CREATED FOR PROCURING CONSULTANTS AND IT'S ALL CENTRALIZED. WE HAVE A PROJECT FRAMEWORK THAT IS THE BEST PRACTICES GUIDE ON PROJECT MANAGEMENT FOR STAFF. WE CREATED A PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT DASHBOARD WHICH IS A MEASURE OF FUTURE OUTREACH EFFORTS. WITH THAT, WE'VE CREATED THAT TOOL, AND WE'LL BE IMPLEMENTING IT MORE WITHIN 2026. WE HAVE MAXIMIZED PAID SOCIAL MEDIA ADVERTISING. WE'VE HAD PAID ADS FOR SURVEYING, GEO FENCING, TO FIND OUR COMMUNITIES THAT WE'RE OUTREACHING TO, AND TARGET THAT AD IN THAT AREA. AND IT'S BEEN AN EFFICIENT AND COST EFFECTIVE TOOL. WE HAVE THE TPO MERGER STUDY, STAFF HAVE CONTINUED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT A POTENTIAL REGIONAL TPO MERGER AND PEER EXCHANGE TO GUIDE NEXT STEPS. WITH THAT, WE HAVE OUR ANNUAL PERFORMANCE MEASURES WHICH WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET FOR YOUR REVIEW, I BELIEVE MELISSA ZORNITTA WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT LATER. THOSE PERFORMANCE MEASURES ARE BASED ON THE ANNUAL REPORT, AND THOSE NUMBERS YOU SAW EARLIER AS WELL. WE'LL CONTINUE TRACKING AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THE 2024 TO 2029 STRATEGIC PLAN, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE FOLLOWING ALL THOSE GOALS AND STRATEGIES LISTED THERE. WITH THAT, THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? NOT SEEING ANY, WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR LAST BRIEFING ITEM. 5D, PC/CPA25-08 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN MAP AMENDMENT, 2502, 2508, 2600 EAST SAM ALLEN ROAD. AND THE PRESENTER IS YENEKA MILLS.

GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN, I'M HERE TO PRESENT PC/CPA25-08, LOCATED ON EAST SAM ALLEN ROAD. THIS IS A PRIVATELY INITIATED PLAN MAP AMENDMENT, THEY'RE LOOKING TO CHANGE FROM HILLSBOROUGH R1 TO PLANT CITY AGRICULTURE. IT'S ON THE WEST OF ALDO ROAD. AS WELL AS THE NORTHEAST PLANT CITY AREA MASTER PLAN. HERE IS AN AERIAL OF THE SITE OUTLINED IN PINK. YOU'LL SEE THE BLUE JURISDICTIONAL BOUNDARY LINE TO THE LEFT OF THAT LINE IS WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF PLANT CITY INTO THE RIGHT OF THAT BLUE JURISDICTIONAL LINE IS WITHIN UNINCORPORATED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, THERE IS SCATTERED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO THE WEST, THERE IS VACANT LANDS TO THE EAST, TO THE WEST IS VACANT LAND, AS WELL AS TO THE NORTH, THOSE PROPERTIES ARE OWNED BY THE SCHOOL BOARD. ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF SAME ALLEN ROAD IS THE NEWLY BUILT SOUTH FLORIDA HOSPITAL, THEN WE HAVE A LARGE SUBDIVISION FURTHER TO THE WEST IS NORTH PARK ISLES, AND THEN WE HAVE A SUBDIVISION HERE WHICH IS HILL STONE. AGAIN, THE SITE IS WITHIN THE NORTHEAST PLANT CITY 34569ER PLAN, IT IS ENVISIONED FOR COMMERCIAL USES, AND THERE IS SMALL PORTION OF NATURAL PRESERVATION HERE. THE SITE IS CURRENTLY UNDER THE

R1 LAND USE, IT'S ALREADY TRANSITIONED INTO PLANT CITY. MEANING IT'S ALREADY BEEN AN EX-ED INTO PLANT CITY. OTHER FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATIONS INCLUDE THE YELLOW HERE, WHICH IS RESIDENTIAL 6. WE HVE IN THE RED, WHICH IS PLANT CITY COMMERCIAL, AND THEN IN UNINCORPORATED HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WE HAVE THE LIGHT GREEN, WHICH IS RESIDENTIAL 1, THEN WE ALSO HAVE THE PRESENCE OF RESIDENTIAL 2 IN THE YELLOW. AND THEN OTHER FUTURE LAND USES, THIS BROWN HERE IS RESIDENTIAL 20. AND THEN WE HAVE THIS LIGHT PINK HERE WHICH IS LIGHT COMERCIAL OFFICE. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO CHANGE TO AGRICULTURE. THE SITE COULD PERSONALLY DEVELOP UP TO 9 DWELLING UNITS OR OVER 107,000 SQUARE FEET OF NONRESIDENTIAL USES, SUBJECT TO CRITERIA IF IT WERE APPROVED FOR COMMERCIAL, IT COULD HAVE OVER 150,000 SQUARE FEET. THE CHANGE WOULD INCLUDE AN INCREASE TO NONRESIDENTIAL INTENSITY. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.

NIGEL JOSEPH: THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? NOT SEEING ANY. WE'LL THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. WE'VE MOVE ON TO OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S REPORT.

GOOD AFTERNOON, MELISSA ZORNITTA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. AT YOUR SEATS YOU HAVE A LIST OF THE MEETINGS AND UPDATES. I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH ALL OF IT BECAUSE OF THE TIME. I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE THINGS, THE TAMPA FUTURE LAND USE, WE HAVE ISSUED A -- WE ISSUED A NEW DRAFT BACK IN JANUARY, BASED ON CITY COUNCIL'S MOTIONS GIVING US DIRECTION ON A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ITEMS IN BACK IN AUGUST. THE LARGEST OF THOSE ITEMS WAS DOING A REVISITING OF ESSENTIALLY ALL OF THE POLICIES TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH SENATE BILL 180. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF CHANGES WE 345IDS IN THAT DOCUMENT. WE BRIEFED ALL OF CITY COUNCIL ABOUT THAT, WE HAD A PUBLIC MEETING LAST WEEK, ONE IN PERSON. AND ONE VIRTUALLY. WE GOT GOOD FEEDBACK. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT SOME IN THE COMMUNITY. BASED ON CITY COUNCIL TAKING CERTAIN THINGS OUT IN AUGUST, FOR EXAMPLE. THEY REMOVED A NUMBER OF CORRIDORS FROM BEING TRANSIT READY CORRIDORS. BASED ON SOME OF THE CONCERNS IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE CITY, BUT THEN WHEN THEY TOOK A CORRIDOR OFF THE MAP. FOR EXAMPLE, COLUMBUS IS ONE WE'RE HEARING A LOT ABOUT. THEY TOOK IT OFF EAST/WEST, THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE CITY, NOW WE'RE HEARING FROM A NUMBER OF RESIDENTS, NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS, SAYING, WE'D LIKE THAT ADDED BACK. OR AT LEAST FROM A -- THE PORTION THAT IS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY. SO WE'VE BEEN SHARING THAT INFORMATION WITH CITY COUNCIL, THAT A COUPLE COUNCILMEMBERS WERE THERE AT THE IN PERSON

MEETING TO HEAR IT DIRECTLY FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS. BUT WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES RIGHT NOW, THE CHANGES NEED TO GO -- BE MADE BY CITY COUNCIL, THAT HEARING IS ON FEBRUARY 17th. WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT NEXT WEEK. AND SEEING WHAT -- HOPEFULLY THEY WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH TRANSMITTING THAT TO THE STATE WITH THEIR REVIEWS, SINCE THAT'S THE NEXT STEP. WE ALSO CONCLUDED THE SERIES OF FOUR IN PERSON REDIRECTING PUBLIC MEETINGS, YOU'LL GET TO HEAR ABOUT THAT LATER TONIGHT FROM YAS EFFORT, AND WE'VE HAD -- AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE FIRST ROUND OF PUBLIC MEETINGS ON THE URBAN EXPANSION AREAS AS PART OF THAT, WE DID GO AND MEET WITH ALL OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO MAKE SURE THEY KNEW WHERE WE WERE UP IN THE PROCESS AS WELL. A COUPLE THINGS TO HIGHLIGHT UNDER THE INFORMATION ITEMS. NEXT MONTH WE HAVE YOUR REGULAR MEETING AS PART OF THAT -- THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS, YOU WILL HAVE THE SECOND PUBLIC HEARING ON THE REDIRECTING AT 7:30 AT NIGHT. THAT SPECIFIED WHAT TIME IT HAS TO BE AT. WE CAN'T START ANY EARLIER THAN THAT, WE DO HAVE A COUPLE COUNTY ITEMS THAT WILL BE ADDED TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, SO HOPEFULLY YOU'RE NOT SITTING HERE FOR TOO LONG BETWEEN ONE THING AND THE NEXT. THEN ON THE 24th WE HAVE THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER RETREAT. THAT'S GOING TO BE HELD AT THIA'S OFFICES. THEY HAVE A NICE BOARDROOM THEY'VE OFFERED TO LET US USE FOR THAT. WE'LL BE SENDING OUT MORE INFORMATION ON DETAILS ABOUT PARKING AND WHEN FOOD WILL BE PROVIDED, ALL THAT SORT OF GOOD STUFF. WE ARE WORKING -- WE HEARD FROM THE COUNTY, WE HAD A PRECONSTRUCTION MEETING LAST WEEK ABOUT THE RENOVATION OF

THIS BOARDROOM. THAT IS GOING TO BEGIN ON MARCH 13th. THEY'VE STRATEGICALLY PLANNED IT FOR AFTER YOUR NEXT MEETING. THEY BELIEVE IT CAN BE DONE IN TWO WEEKS. THEY ARE PREFAB INDICATING ALL THE DAIS STUFF, SO IT CAN COME IN AND BE PUT TOGETHER. SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO BUILD IT ALL IN HERE. THEY'RE REPLACING THE CARPET, THEY'RE TRIMMING THIS COLUMN DOWN TO WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY SO PEOPLE CAN BETTER SEE AROUND IT. THAT'S -- AND MAYBE OPEN UP SOME ADDITIONAL SEATING BECAUSE OF THAT. THOSE ARE THE MININGER THINGS THAT ARE OCCURRING. WE WILL BE RESERVING A BACKUP ROOM FOR THE APRIL MEETING JUST IN CASE. HOPEFULLY WE DON'T NEED IT, BUT WE WANT TO BE PREPARED. THE LAST THING I WANTED TO MENTION -- ACTUALLY, TWO MORE THINGS. I'LL BE SENDING OUT INFORMATION ABOUT THE AP NATIONAL CONFERENCE. OCCURRING AT THE END OF APRIL, BEGINNING OF MAY IN DETROIT. AND WE HAVE IT BUDGETED THAT IF A FEW PLANNING COMMISSIONERS WANT TO ATTEND THAT THAT COULD HAPPEN. SO I'LL SEND YOU THE INFORMATION SO YOU CAN LOOK AT THE PROGRAM AND ALL OF THAT INFORMATION. IF YOU EVER SEE SOMETHING ELSE LIKE COMMISSIONER SIEBEN'S ATTENDED SOME ULI CONFERENCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IF YOU SEE ANYTHING YOU THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL TO YOUR ROLE HERE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WE WANT TO TRY TO SUPPORT THAT THE BEST WE CAN. I WANTED TO GIVE AN UPDATE ON THE AWARDS, FOLLOWING UP ON THE LAST PUBLIC INFORMATION COMMITTEE MEETING. MAYBE IT'S FOLLOWING UP ON THE FIRST PUBLIC INFORMATION COMMITTEE MEETING FOR THIS --

LOOKING AT NEXT YEAR'S AWARDS, WE HAVE BEEN DOING EXTENSIVE SEARCHES FOR A BETTER TROPHY THAN WHAT WE HAVE. WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANYTHING THAT HAS THE KIND OF SPACE THAT WE NEED TO WRITE ON IT, LOOKS CLASSY AND HAS THE WEIGHT I THINK WE APPRECIATE IN THE CURRENT TROPHY. WE HAVE, HOWEVER, FOUND ANOTHER VENDOR WHO DOES THE EXISTING TROPHY. ANOTHER VENDOR IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. SO WE WOULD LIKE TO STICK WITH THE CURRENT TROPHY. WE DON'T THINK THE COST WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS WITH O THIS OTHER VENDOR, BUT WE THINK THE PROCESS HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE SMOOTHER THAN WHAT WE ENCOUNTERED LAST YEAR, WE WOULD LIKE TO STICK WITH THAT FOR NOW. AND WE'LL KEEP LOOKING AND KEEP OUR EYES OUT. IF ANYONE SEES A GREAT TROPHY THEY THINK WE SHOULD USE, PLEASE LET US KNOW, WE'LL GO TRY TO FIND IT, SO FAR, IT'S BEEN DISAPPOINTING IN OUR SEARCH. AND THEN BELOW, I HAVE ALL OF THE PLAN AMENDMENT UPDATES. MOST OF THE ITEMS YOU HEARD WERE ADOPTED AND MOVED FORWARD. TWO OF NOTE WERE THE MARYSOL PROPERTY ON DAVIS ISLAND. YOU PROBABLY READ ABOUT THAT IN THE PAPER. AND THEN ALSO A PLAN AMENDMENT IN THE CITY OF TAMPA THAT WAS DOWN BY MacDILL AIR FORCE BASE SOUTH OF GANDY. WITH THAT, I'LL CONCLUDE AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU FOR BIG UP THE TRANSIT READY CORRIDORS. I WAS AWARE THAT THERE WAS A CONTENTIOUS MEETING WHERE THEY WERE PULLED BACK SIGNIFICANTLY. AND BOTH COLUMBUS AND MLK ARE KEY ARTERIALS FOR TAMPA. THEY'RE TRANSIT CORRIDORS, WITH BUS SERVICE TO THE AIRPORT. IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. I'M GLAD THEY'RE GOING TO RECONSIDER REINSTATING SOME OF THEM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

NIGEL JOSEPH: ANY MORE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? WE WILL THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION AND MOVING ON TO OTHER BUSINESS. CHAIR'S BUSINESS? I DON'T HAVE ANY. OLD BUSINESS? I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ANY. NEW BUSINESS? AND COMMITTEE REPORTS. NO? NOT SEEING ANY. MY NEXT TPO BOARD MEETING IS THIS WEDNESDAY. I DON'T BELIEVE I HAD ONE LAST TIME, I CAN'T REMEMBER NOW. YEAH, BEFORE THE LAST MEETING, YEAH. WITH THAT, I GUESS WE ARE DONE WITH THIS AND WHAT TIME ARE WE COMING BACK FOR THE OTHER ONE, SHOULD WE DO LIKE 45 OR 30?

I THINK WE CAN TRY FOR 5:30 AND THEN -- OKAY. 5:30 WE WILL BE BACK FOR OUR FIRST PUBLIC HEARING OF THE EVENING. AND AT 5:00, P.M. THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.