Historic Compliance and Technical Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

Good morning. I'd like to call to order the Historic and Design Review Commission Compliance and Technical Advisory Board meeting for Friday, September 18, 2026. Can I have a roll call, please?

Davis Garcia? Burgard Spiller?

Here.

Ziga? Here. Fullerton? Fullerton?

Here.

Polyg, Speets, Vazquez?

Here.

And Sepulda? Here. We have a quorum.

Thank you. Translation services, please.

Good afternoon, everyone. Muchas gracias. Thank you so much.

The Compliance and Technical Advisory Board is an advisory board appointed by the City Council. I'm Jason Vazquez, Acting Chair. Juanita Cipollvida is the Chair. It is the function of the board to advise the city manager and all relevant city departments concerning certain applications for permits for properties in historic districts and landmarks. In considering whether to recommend approval or disapproval of an application for a certificate of appropriateness, the board shall be guided by the city's unified development code and design guidelines and standards that have been adopted by city council. An appeal of a decision by an administrative official can be filed in accordance with the City's Unified Development Code. If anyone present wishes to speak in favor or in opposition to any item on today's agenda, please sign up on the public comment sheet. It is not necessary to sign up if you are the owner of representative for a project on the agenda. You will be called on as the case is called. Case representatives will be given no more than 15 minutes to present their case with an additional two minutes to respond to public comments. Speakers for or opposed to a case will be limited to two minutes each. Speakers may also sign up to yield their two minutes to another speaker who has signed up. Anyone who is yielding their time must be present at the time the speaker is called upon. Speakers will be called upon in the order in which they are signed up. Following public testimony, any commissioner may call upon any speaker to respond to further questions. Approval by the board does not take the place of any type of permit. Permits must be obtained for all work. Certificates of appropriateness for work approved by the board will be emailed to you within 10 days. No work of any type is to be started without obtaining the appropriate city permits after a certificate of appropriateness has been issued by the Office of Historic Preservation. At this time, please silence your cell phones. Announcements?

Good morning, Commissioners. Very happy Friday to all of you. No new staff announcements today. A very big thank you to those of you who attended the Home Repair Fair last week. Other than that, we'll look to you to make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from the last hearing on August 21st.

Can I have a motion to approve the items on the consent agenda, please?

I'll make a motion.

Sorry, Vice Chair. We first need action on meeting minutes from the previous hearing.

Sorry. Can I have a motion to approve meeting minutes from the last, what was it?

August 21st.

August 21st meeting.

I'd like to make a motion to approve those minutes.

Second. Okay, a roll call, please.

Garcia? Aye. Spiller?

Aye.

Ziga? Aye. Fullerton?

Aye.

Vazquez?

Aye.

And Sepulveda? Aye. Motion carries.

Okay thank you. And if you will now draw your attention to the screen. We do have a short agenda this morning for you. We've got two items on consent and then two items on the individual agenda as item number four has postponed at the request of the applicant.

Great thank you. Is there any commissioners wishing to pull any items from the consent agenda? Online? In person? Can I have a motion, please, to approve the items on the consent agenda?

I'll make a motion to approve the items on the agenda. On the consent agenda.

And with staff stipulations? Commissioner Spiller, if you want to clarify with staff stipulations.

The consent agenda in reference to 214 Muncie and 534 Lehigh? With staff stipulations? And the motion with staff stipulations.

Great. Thank you. Can I have a second, please?

I second.

Thank you. Can I have a roll call, please?

Garcia?

Aye.

Spiller?

Aye.

Ziga? Aye. Fullerton? Aye. Aye. Vazquez?

Aye.

And Sepulveda? Aye. Motion carries.

If your address is 214 Muncie or 534 Lay Street, your case has been approved by the commission and you do not need to stay for the remainder of the hearing. Your certificate of appropriateness will be emailed to you within 10 business days. Okay, we'll move on to item number three, commissioners. Commissioner Burgard, are you online? I see you're online.

I am.

Perfect.

I am. Thank you.

Okay. There you are. Perfect. We just wanted to make sure we could see you on screen. Thank you. Okay commissioners, we'll move on to our first case. So this is a CTAP case 2026-241 for 725 Burleson. The applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to replace an existing composition shingle roof with a standing seam metal roof featuring striations, vented ridge caps, and end caps. Staff recommends approval of the roof material switch with the following stipulation that the roof that the metal roof be replaced with a standing seam metal roof consistent with the guidelines that features panels that are 18 to 21 inches wide. seams that are one to two inches high, a crimped ridge seam, and match the current finish or a standard galvalume finish. Panels should be smooth without striation or corrugation. Ridges are to feature a double munch or crimped ridge configuration. No vented ridge caps or end caps are allowed. An inspection must be scheduled with OHP staff prior to the start of work to verify that the roofing material matches the approved specifications. No modifications to the roof pitch or roof form are requested or approved. Commissioners, I will note that this is a violation case, and we do have one in-person speaker signed up to speak following the applicant's presentation. At this point, if the applicant would like to come forward, you guys will have, if you'd like to come forward and introduce yourself, you'll have 12 minutes to speak. Okay.

Okay, very good. My name is Kurt Walker. I'm here to help the family. Oh, sorry. get closer okay my name is Kurt Walker I'm here to help the family through this process this is Marco Pena he is the roofer that actually installed it we as he said we have a problem because the roof was installed without a permit we were unaware of that as soon as we found out that it was installed without a permit we did pull the permit but that is resulted in us being in this location today for this hearing we prepared a package that documents, some of the things that we felt were relevant to the case as far as precedent and performance and undue hardship by changing out the roof that has been put in place. I can briefly go over those or if you've already reviewed the package, then I probably don't need to. I don't know what the precedence is for that here. Okay, very good. First of all, as far as the permit goes, we recognize it should have been done and it wasn't love to go back in a time machine and fix that but we can't so we're here and we're trying to find a solution that works for everybody so the request we're requesting the the approval based on precedents precedents in the neighborhood is that there are a number of standing seam metal roofs both striated on striated with end caps in there we have provided some photographic documentation of that addresses we've walked the neighborhood approximately a quarter of the roofs in that neighborhood are standing seam metal roofs most of them have end caps in them half of those are striated so there is a definite neighborhood precedent of that type of roof it is also dignity not King Williams so these houses typically wouldn't have had super high-end roofs but you know that may be irrelevant I'm not sure The other requests that the city has and the guidelines, and we certainly respect the guidelines that are there, but we also know that they are open for some interpretation. The width of the metal panels is consistent with what the city's recommendation are. The seams are consistent with what the city's recommendation are. The only two issues are striated panels versus and end caps versus flat panels and no ridge vents. There's technical reasons why, there are structural reasons why we use striated panels nowadays. They're structurally much better. They're more resistant to oil canning. They're much better for longevity of the roof. They protect the structure better than a flat panel roof does. And the same can be said for the ridge vents. They're there for moisture control. They're there so we don't have to do air hawks and things that are ugly and unappealing on the roof. So there certainly are reasons that we use those these days. The final thing is on hardship. roof has been put in place it is a high performance high quality roof if we have to tear it off and remove it it creates excess waste it creates excess costs and burden to our clients so because of these reasons we request that we get issued a a coa for for the roof as is And I apologize, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not great at this, and I'm nervous, so.

You don't need to be a lawyer. Anything you need to add, sir?

And also the striated ribs, something you forgot, it's actually protects better for if we get a hail storm.

So actually it will... Can you introduce yourself for the record really quick?

Oh, my name is Marco Pena. I'm the owner of Prestige Metal Roofing. So the striated panel actually makes the metal stronger and in case of a hail storm, actually the hail will not show as a flat panel as well. So it gives it a strength and it looks better on the roof, so... That's something that he forgot to mention about it, but thank you.

Great, thank you.

We'll open up the... First, Commissioner Reicher, sorry. We'll move on to our in-person speaker for this item. So if the applicants would like to take a seat, we're going to bring up the speaker. So Dashil Young-Savor, if you'd like to come up. So please introduce yourself first, and then you'll have two minutes to speak, okay?

Good morning. Oh yeah. All right. Good morning. My name is Dasha Young Saver. I'm a homeowner in the Dignity Hill neighborhood. And I'm also the son of Kay Young and Jeff Saver, who own the home in this case, also in the Dignity Hill neighborhood. So as I understand it, the business of this commission is to regulate housing in our neighborhood such that it doesn't lose its historic character. This makes sense and is a worthy thing to do. But as we all know, housing is a market with supply and demand. And with regulations on the supply side, such as the need to get more permits, have back and forth with the city, potentially delay projects, it restricts housing supply, thereby inflating the cost of housing and making our city less affordable for us all. So if the commission's work as a byproduct inflates the cost of housing, it better have a very good reason to do so. Arguably, in the case the developer is wanting to raise whole blocks of homes in our neighborhood, and build more modern homes that don't look like any of the homes in our neighborhood, enforcing these regulations and inflating the cost of housing might make sense. However, in the case of a family improving their home by fixing a leaky roof, by installing a better metal roof that also matches a ton of metal roofs that are also striated within three square blocks of the same home, and then by imposing penalties on them, inflating the cost of housing might not make sense. It doesn't actually protect the character of our neighborhood. It levies a punishment on a family rather than a big time developer. It makes it harder to live in this neighborhood and it inflates the cost of housing for us all. So I hope the commission considers this during this case today. Thank you for your time. I also have with me three letters from fellow neighbors that are expressing similar concern about how the commission has handled this case. These are under the document camera, and I plan to submit them for the record as well. Thank you.

Okay, we'll move on to you, Vice Chair. Great, thank you.

Any questions from my colleagues here in person?

I do have a question for the roofing contractor.

If the applicants would like to come up to the podium.

So have you done any other projects in this neighborhood?

No, ma'am. My company is based on New Braunfels, Texas, so we do more of the Austin area, New Braunfels. I wasn't aware that there was a historical area, so when I went, I didn't know. That's why we didn't pull a permit. And we apologize for that. It's my first house that we do here on this side of town, basically.

All right. So I guess my question would be if the owner knew that this was a historic district subject to guidelines, or if you knew. Are you with the roofing contractor?

I'm not with the roofing contractor. I was the general contractor on the original property. I was the general contractor on the original remodel that they did several years ago, and I'm a friend of the family now. And so they asked me just to come to help since I'm no longer a contractor with City of San Antonio, but they asked me to come just because I've dealt with the city before and Marco has not.

So when you did that remodel a few years ago, did you know you were in a historic district? Yes, we did.

We did all our historical guidelines then.

So in this situation, why did you not check what the guidelines were for the roof?

I'm not the general contractor on this. They hired Marco to do the work. Marco was unaware of it. So I wasn't involved in this part of the project.

Okay. I'm just trying to clarify who might have known. I would think the owner, if this had been a renovation done a few years ago and it was done properly according to guidelines, that they would know that the roof needed to also meet those guidelines.

Yeah. I know they did not know. And you can argue that they should have known, but I think their thinking was, well, we're just replacing a roof. We're not doing a historic renovation. And they probably didn't ever cross their mind that that should be an issue. I'm not saying that it shouldn't have been addressed. It should have been addressed. I'm saying that they were not aware of it. They weren't purposely trying to avoid historic. Because the reality is it's... it's somewhat of a hurdle but it's not a horrible hurdle to run the process through the permits and through the historic it wasn't done out of out of malice it was done out of just not knowing all right i'm just yeah i was just trying to have that question answered thank you yes thank you additional questions

I have a question for the roofer. Is it possible to replace sections of the roof without having to rip the whole roof off?

No, ma'am. These roofs are custom built, so it's a male and female, and it has a machine that locks it together. So you cannot take one piece at a time. You have to take the whole entire roof.

So it's not possible to undo one seam?

No.

You have to rip it all out at the same time?

Yes, ma'am. Yeah, because we have a machine that is like a can opener that cuts the seams so you cannot reuse the metal anymore or open it.

Okay, thank you.

Anything?

Any questions online, please?

Yes.

Go ahead, Madam Chair.

So my question is for the roofer. I said, sir, so if you work in New Brunswick in the Austin area, Are you required to pull permits in those areas?

Yes, ma'am. I do pull permits and I'm a license. Yes, ma'am. I do pull permits over there because I'm a license over there. Not just in San Antonio, I'm not.

So you're not licensed in San Antonio?

No, ma'am. I'm licensed in New Braunfels in Austin, but not in San Antonio.

So is that the reason why you didn't pull a permit here?

Well, I just didn't know that I was supposed to.

My question was, is that the reason why you didn't pull a permit here?

Yes, because I don't have a license here, yes.

Okay, so is that also the reason why you didn't inquire about the regulations for the roofing here?

I don't follow.

Is that the reason why you didn't inquire about the roofing regulations for the areas here?

Yes.

And did you inquire whether or not it was in a historical district or did the owner even notify you that it was in a historical district?

No, the owner didn't. I mean, I didn't talk to the owner. I talked more to Kurt about it.

No. And he didn't notify you that that was a historical district?

I notified him that he needed to pull a permit. but my question was i did not know i did not notify him that it was a historic district and i actually was not aware that for a re-roof we had to go through historic but did you notify him that he was in a historical district i did not notify him that he was in a historic district but you did inform him that he needed to pull a permit yes

and a permit was not pulled, just confirmation?

Correct.

Okay. That was my question. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Additional questions online, please?

I have no questions at this time.

Go ahead, Commissioner Fuller, Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair. I was just checking to see if we had any comment from the neighborhood association that I missed.

No, Commissioner. No letters were submitted from the Dignity Hill Association.

Anything further?

Is it possible for me as the owner to speak?

Yes. Go ahead. Yes, go ahead, Kay. If you'd like to first introduce yourself.

Sure. Hi, I'm Kay Young, the owner of the house. And I... I truly honestly had no idea that re-roofing would require historic certification. The roof was leaking, and I wanted to stop the leak. And so we acted quickly to hire, by recommendation, a wonderful roofer to do this. And I would just like to say I apologize to the committee I understand that this was our mistake, and I'm certainly happy to pay a fine, but it truly was done out of ignorance. If you look at the house, the pictures that were submitted before and after in terms of what this house was and what made it, We have honestly spent our life savings on this house, on its renovation, to make it as historically accurate as we possibly could. The renovation was complete, thorough. Our goal was to bring it back to its 1915 self and i would happily invite you all to the house to see it it's it's a beautiful piece it's sort of my inspiration actually the houses in king william and some of the other buildings i wanted to try to renovate it to to match what i was seeing i did research on the arts and crafts movement and we have spent actually more than our love stations on this house and my My plea to you all is to please let us leave the roof as it is. I understand from what Kurt has submitted and my own research now on metal roofs that in terms of the weather currently in Texas, this is the best kind of roofing to use because of the hail. As you know, this past season, The rain was pretty torrential and we, you know, I needed to stop the leaking. We've, you know, it was ruining the kitchen and so we acted quickly and it falls on me to say, I truly did not know that a historic, you know, appropriate certification was needed to reroof. I had no idea. And as a, you know, I will pay a fine, but I am asking for your mercy on this because honestly, we don't have the money. We've just spent $31,000 to make this beautiful roof. It's secure now. I feel confident now that all the work we put into making our home what it is now for us and truly for the neighborhood because many it's become a place because we bought the house to be next to our son. It's a place where all of his friends gather. It's it's You know, I don't know what to say other than, you know, please don't make us tear down this roof. Like I said, I will pay a fine to make this right with you all. But, you know, we've learned our lesson now about this. But honestly, if you want to come see the house, you'll see just how historically accurate it is. So thank you.

Thank you. Bottom line here is that This is a historic district. I think the homeowners knew, the folks in front of me knew, from what the chair asked, people knew this was historic. And unfortunately, you didn't follow the guidelines. Staff, is it true that they had previously pulled permits? for other work?

We'd have to check our records, sir. So all of those, of course, are public records. So we'd have to check what COAs we have on file for this property. Since, of course, we only have purview over the exterior of the property, any interior work that they would have done, again, those still require city permits, which always come to us, regardless of the scope of work. But any interior permit that would have been pulled, we would have approved it without issue because we're not involved. But when a permit is pulled with the city of San Antonio, if the property is in a historic district, then of course that comes to us as well. So if an applicant hadn't put in an application for a certificate of appropriateness, then when a roofing permit is applied for through development services, then that's when we, again, we have kind of the back-end ability to notify the applicant of the requirements to pull a certificate of appropriateness before the roofing permit is issued. So, again, to answer your question, I'm not sure of previous approvals. But, you know, again, with this one, we didn't get a permit or a COA.

So would you mind pulling this up on Google Earth so we can see where this is located within Dignity?

Chair.

One moment, Madam Chair. They're just looking something up for me. And I just wanted to get kind of a... Do you want the satellite view? Right. Okay. One second. Just to see... And can you show where the perimeter is of the Dignity area? We can. One second. I see Burleson there. Thank you very much. Burleson is in the heart of Dignity Hill. I think there's many things associated with Burleson that define Dignity Hill. Again, just the house alone, that street which is very well known within Dignity Hill. And then just the roof being a character defining feature is what the bottom line is. He didn't pull permits. I think I believe their signage all around the historic district there. I'm not sure how you would miss it. And. There truly is no excuse. So I'll be asking for a motion here in a moment. Unless there's any comments or anything else commissioners had online, are there further comments?

I don't have any at this time.

Thank you. Commissioner Fullerton?

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. I truly hear the challenge of the hardship. I would second everything that you've said though, Mr. Vice Chair, regarding the importance of the fact that we are specifically tasked as the compliance and technical advisory board to weigh these things very carefully based on the guidelines that had been approved by the neighborhood, that were established once the neighborhood became part of an historic district. And for the, benefit, maybe not the consolation, but for the years of the applicants, I would point out that we regularly have several cases similar to this, unfortunately, and we have to lean on the side of compliance because as a regulatory authority, we do have to be aware that if we if we continue to flout the rules, then we become arbitrary and capricious in our designations. Again, my sympathies to the applicants, but the signage on the street signs shows up on Google Maps in January 2026 as a historic district. I appreciate that the contractors from outside, but New Braunfels and Austin certainly have plenty of historic districts, which I believe have similar regulatory processes. And had the permit been pulled for the roof, then this would have been flagged. We could have intervened early. My sympathies.

Thank you. Madam Chair, I'm sorry. I missed your previous.

Thank you. I'm just going to reiterate the fact that I know there was a comment about how the roofers did an excellent job. It does look perfect. However, we have wonderful roofers here within the city who are aware of the historical districts and are quite qualified and are actually certified within the city of San Antonio. We have been aware of pulling permits and regulations, which is one of my biggest concerns. And we are actually reported by our city council as well as the regulations that were enforced within the community and the historical committee that are already set up within each community, as well as our staff at the time to go out and enforce regulations that every community member is made aware of. I mean, it was made aware that Ms. Rufer was informed and was still not, knowingly did not follow through, which is a concern for me. that unfortunately a community member is now being held to that standard. So, I mean, I value the questions that were asked. I value the fact that the staff is keeping the community informed and constantly providing community fairs to educate the members. So that's where I stand with that.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Any additional comments?

No.

I'll just say the bottom line is accountability. Again we are charged here with making the tough calls of helping our city abide by the guidelines set by the office of historic preservation and ultimately approved by city council and our representatives who appoint us we are charged with protecting neighborhoods we are charged with keeping the historic character of neighborhoods. And we always have to keep that in mind when making decisions. So I'll be asking for a roll call here, or sorry, a motion. Can I have a motion, please?

Can I ask a question? Or is it not?

I'm sorry, we're already moving to the motion. Go ahead with the motion, please.

I'd like to make a motion to support staff's recommendation with their stipulation.

Thank you. Is there a second?

I second.

Thank you. Can I have a roll call, please?

Garcia?

Aye.

Burgard? Aye. Spiller?

Aye.

Ziga? Aye. Fullerton?

Aye.

Vasquez?

Aye.

And Sepulveda?

aye motion carries thank you please work with staff on next steps they will walk you through the next steps on moving forward thank you next case

CTAB case number, sorry, agenda item number five, CTAB case number 2026-235, 307 Mission Street. The applicant's requesting a certificate of appropriateness for approval to one, replace the existing front porch railing, and two, replace the existing front porch wood steps with concrete steps. Item one, staff recommends approval of the porch railing replacement based on findings A through D with the following stipulations. One, that the front porch railing feature both the top and bottom rail with the bottom rail to feature a vertical orientation and be installed approximately three to four inches above the porch decking. Both top and bottom rails must be constructed from two by four members. The proposed railing should not feature an overall height of more than three feet and balusters must be square and not exceed two by two inches in size. Two, that the applicant may provide staff an alternative front porch railing design based on a historic railing example found within the nearby area on a folk Victorian structure. Item two, staff recommends approval of the front porch step replacement based on findings A and E as submitted. Before we begin, staff would like to clarify as finding C notes, this came to staff as a violation case On June 29th, 2026, OHP staff received a 311 report noting work occurring at 307 Mission Street without a certificate of appropriateness. OHP staff reached out to the property owner on July 2nd, 2026 to issue a stop work order and notified them of the COA process. The applicant then submitted a COA request on August 10th, 2026. The applicant, Paulette, is here in person. Paulette, you'll have 12 minutes to discuss the case. In the meantime, I'll be showing the exhibit file. If there's anything specific you want me to pull up, I can do so. And also, too, please introduce yourself for the record, and then you can go ahead.

Good morning, my name is Paulette Jamal and I am the mother of the homeowner. She started renovating this when she was about 27 years old. We hired a professional architect, ADAPT, to handle the case and handle all the permits and what have you. So there was a little bit of miscommunication on what was approved and what was not approved and included. From the beginning, she had requested the front door to have the same detailed design as the windows, which are of course historic and that was approved. We were under the impression that at the same time the railing was included in that. It was not. We came to learn. And our choice basically was to leave the house without a railing based on the fact that we didn't like what was there previously. And it was thrown away without us knowing. I was under the impression that that was a historic railing in place. I just learned last night when I saw the email that, in fact, that was installed in 2016. was really not installed to code and I guess the railing was very separate for children in the future and what have you. We would have put it back if it was there because what happened was we got a letter from the insurance company saying that a railing needed to be in place. And we kind of scrambled to replace it, to comply, because otherwise we were going to be dropped. I own a historic home in Denver Heights. Mine is a landmark. It's 823 Dakota. I am aware that we have to go through the rules. I've been dealing with Rachel Retaliata, and it's always been a pleasure to deal with historic. I've never had an issue. In this case, it was just basically scrambling for time to comply with the insurance and the fact that Francesca's father and I are divorced. And he basically said, put the railing up. And he was the one that dealt with the DAP. I was comfortable in thinking, okay, well, if he dealt with ADAPT, that was part of what was agreed and what have you, because that's what my daughter had requested. We drive around the neighborhood constantly trying to see what the other homeowners are doing, what the other historic homes look like. There's a lot of disconnect. People use metal. People use all sorts of materials that, of course, I don't deem a good match for a historic home. So in this case what we were trying to do is basically just have the wood to comply and basically the design and not to obstruct the views of the porch. We like to decorate the porches and basically something that doesn't obstruct the house, the view, and what have you. And the diamonds, of course, were a pretty feature that we borrowed from the windows, and that's basically where we're at. I just heard what the other people went through, and I don't know. I mean, I think this seems like a minor issue, but I do understand the guidelines and the COAs and everything, so let me know what we need to do.

Thank you, ma'am. Was there any additional feedback, Brian?

Yes, I'm sorry. I'm glad that the applicant had mentioned this. Just to clarify, too, it's likely that this property historically did not have any railing condition. OHP staff is sympathetic to insurance requirements, and so this is not an uncommon request for these types of properties to have a request to install some type of porch railing. The railing on screen now, this was the railing that existed prior to 2016. This railing is, I'm comfortable to say, is pretty close if not spot on to what staff is recommending today. The railing was approved for replacement in 2016 with what you're seeing on the screen now. Based on guidelines and policy documents that have been adopted in 2022, this particular railing design would need to come to this commission for approval. But that's kind of more of the background.

And you did say right now that in this photo, had this been replicated, it wouldn't have even come up.

Right, so the property owner had gone through multiple requests dating from 2022 through approximately February of 2024 with a bunch of repair work to include architectural drawings. The drawings submitted showed no railing, which again, staff would have been supportive of, but again, insurance requirements usually dictate that there needs to be some type of porch railing past a certain height. on the front porch and so staff would be okay with approving what our recommendation is here today, which is very close to what you're seeing on screen here with the two by four railing and such.

Great, thank you, Brian. Any questions from my colleagues here in person?

I don't have a question. I have a couple of comments. In terms of the insurance, my assumption is that the porch is taller than 36 inches and that's why it's being required. But having such big openings in between the X's would still not comply because someone can still fall through it. I don't know if your insurance has mentioned anything, but in terms of Billing code compliance is still not compliant. While I was reviewing this case, I learned something. There's a subtype within Victorian architecture called Queen Anne Free Classic. And they basically took Queen Anne detailing, which is very over the top, very decorative, and mixed it with classical architecture, which is very formal and very symmetrical. So if you look at your daughter's house, you have the Queen Anne detailing on the windows with the diamond pattern. But you have classical columns on the porch with dentals above it along the fascia. So that's the specific style of this house. I get what she was trying to do with the diamond pattern on the railing to match the diamond pattern on the windows. But I agree with staff that this is not quite right in terms of detailing and appropriateness to the style of the house. If you're looking for inspiration, there's three very good examples of it at the corner of Mission and Steeren. There's three one-story houses that have these exact same architectural style with the Free Classic. And they either have the vertical pickets like staff is recommending or they have turned balusters. So I think just the detailing of it is not quite right.

Is there, because we drove around through the neighborhood and of course in the other side of King William where the larger properties are, we noted a few of the homes had this detail. Is there, I guess, a reasoning behind it, why some homes are allowed to, in the same Victorian style? Because obviously, my background is design. interior design mostly, but of course visual is important. We were basically going for something that was more pleasing to the eye than I guess not pleasing to the eye. and we noticed a lot of the the homes that not a lot but a few of the homes have the rhombus design on their porches and on their balconies and i guess that's kind of where we also felt comfortable that this would not be an eyesore of course if we had installed metal or something that isn't considered a historic appropriate material. I would understand, my property at 823 Dakota Street, my insurance dropped me overnight because it sits high up and what they're concerned with is someone, I see that a child could definitely fall over, but their concerns with adults falling over in the liability behind it, I was with State Farm Insurance for Close to 30 years with my Alamo Heights property. Overnight I got a letter saying, we're dropping you, your home is not fit. I was very shocked because they had insured me for over 30 years and taken my money and when I needed them they were not there to back me. So I had to go with a carrier that the former homeowner had because I had just purchased and I went with Allstate. I don't know if they have different guidelines or what have you, but they were able to cover me without a railing. The insurance that my daughter has basically is through her father's company, and they insured not just her property but multiple properties. I don't believe he looked for an alternative. He just basically was, we need a railing up because otherwise they're going to drop the house. And that's what... that basically would prompt it now we our preference would be not to have a railing at all because the kind of banisters you're recommending which although they are historic they kind of just give a different feel to the to the home right and um especially the ones that are just uh in a straight line i mean i don't know they're not They're not very appealing. They block a lot of the front porch. I don't know. I'll look and see what the options are. If we are able to provide photos with addresses of the homes in King William, would you consider that?

Sorry, that's something you can work out with staff. If there are examples of Victorian houses that have this design. That's something you can work out with staff. I just I do want to mention that aesthetics are subjective. I understand our our job with this board is not aesthetics. No, I understand. Make sure that the guidelines are complied with.

Absolutely. I do realize

Thank you, Commissioner Ziga. That was very insightful. She clearly, she is an architect, and she clearly did the background information and even sought out the particular style of the home and what is appropriate for it and what isn't. And unfortunately, this diamond pattern isn't. I see where you're going in wanting to replicate the diamonds in the windows, in the door, in the side lights. But as she mentioned, that style of home still had the regular railing. and I didn't know if any of my other colleagues had comments or questions online.

How do you do, Vice Chair?

Go ahead, ma'am.

Can you hear me?

Barely.

Okay, can you hear me now?

Yes. Better.

Okay, thank you. Well, I think the staff did a great job because I explore to it, they have the same the same example. The other thing, too, is I still see the other wood steps next to it, which I would think they would remove it. There was concrete steps put instead of the wood steps that were original, and I think the allowance has already been made with the concrete, which has already been amended as far as I'm willing to work with. I have to agree with my colleague that the research that she did, one, bravo on that, but aesthetics is, you know, I understand as well, but I do agree with the example, even next door to the current house I was looking at. If you'll put, can you refer to that? I saw next door to it. The neighboring house? I believe even the columns are correct.

Yeah.

I thought, yeah, that one and then even directly next to it, it was, there was, I mean, I get what they're asking for, see right there. I mean, I understand what they're asking for, but the fact that it was mentioned about insurance and why, you know, making the reference to the insurance.

Anything else, Madam Chair?

No, thank you, Vice Chair.

Online, any further questions or comment?

I don't at this time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ma'am, again, I'm going to lean on the expertise of my colleague over here. She is a historic preservation architect, and she clearly did her homework, not that much.

I'm happy to provide the photos of the Victorian homes in the other side of King William that have that if that's still an opportunity. I'm happy to do that and I understand if you're able to provide with some samples of the banisters that you're recommending the I so with that we could possibly comply with what's necessary I know that I rather have no banister honestly than to have those banisters that either of those homes have well your insurance might have trouble with that I know though well we'll just stop there with the comments sure and I'll ask for a motion please

I move to accept staff's recommendations with stipulations as written.

Thank you. Is there a second? Second the motion. Thank you. Can I have a roll call, please?

Garcia? Aye. Brigard? Aye. Spiller?

Aye.

Ziga? Aye. Fullerton?

Aye.

Vasquez?

Aye.

And Sepulveda? Aye. Aye. Motion carries.

Thank you, ma'am. Please work with staff on next steps. They'll walk you through it. Thank you. Thank you. We're adjourned.