City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Tuesday, January 20th city council meeting. Clerk, please call the role. Alderwoman Bainy here. Alderman Glab here. Alderman Dhy here. Alderwoman Bassie here. Alderman Davis here. Alderman Cook here. [clears throat] Alderwoman Miller here. Mayor Jet here. Please stand for the pledge. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right. Before we get going on public comment, I just want to make a comment regarding 6B. 6B uh was uh removed from the agenda this evening. So, just so you know, 6B will not be voted on uh this evening and that was pulled by the applicant. Uh public comment. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to uh speak on behalf of public comment at this time? This is for items that are not on the agenda this evening. All right, moving on to consent agenda items 5A through 5E. I'm looking for a motion to approve 5A through 5e by the city council. Alder one Miller. I'll make the motion to approve consent agenda 5A through 5e as presented. Please thank you. Second. Alderman Dhy. I'll second the motion.

Thank you. Discussion on any of these items by the city council. See none. Monty, please call the role. Alderwoman Miller. Yes. Alderman Dhy. Yes. Alderman Cook. Yes. Alderman Davis. Yes. Alderwoman Bassie. Yes. Alderman Glab. Yes. Alderwoman Bainy. Yes. Thank you very much. Uh, next item on the agenda is 6A is a cup at 1412 Ridge View Drive. Looking for a motion to pass an ordinance granting a conditional use permit to allow a motor freight terminal at the property located at 1412 River View Drive. Ridge View. Sorry, did I say Riverview? I'll do a Miller.

I'll make the motion to approve a conditional use permit to allow a motor freight terminal at property at 1412 Ridge View Drive. Thank you. Second, alder Benny. I'll second that motion as stated. Thank you. Discussion by the city council. [clears throat] See none. Any public comment? Monte, please call the role. Alderwoman Miller, yes. Alderwoman Baney, yes. Alderman Glab, yes. Alderman Dhy, yes. Alderwoman Bassie, yes. Alderman Davis, yes. Alderman Cook, yes.

Thank you, council. Next item on the agenda is a discussion item. 7A is the re uh redevelopment of 1211 North River Road. I'm going to go ahead and have Doug Martin uh present the this item for discussion.

Thank you, mayor. Um staff was approached by Nico um County Caris. Sorry about that. Uh Mckenry County Restaurant. He has several locations in Mckenry County. Um, looking to renovate, improve, repair the building at 1211 North River Road, formerly Vickiy's Place. Um, looking to put a re a new building facade, patio area, replace building windows and doors. Um, upgrade the equipment and in the kitchen, in all total about $1.2 million worth of renovations uh to the building, the exterior, the interior. um to offset that those project costs he's seeking on a sales tax rebate uh or incentive. Um those terms have not been specifically negotiated as of yet. Um we're looking for council's um guidance on that. Um he it should be noted he's not within the tax increment financing district because this is east of the river and he's not eligible for a business improvement grant uh because that is only within the tax financing district and not within this area as well. Um he's also looking for um as part of the discussion tonight a liquor license, a gaming license and also to do outdoor entertainment. Um there's a large out there as many all of you probably know there's a large outdoor area there right on the river. Um and there's a lot of peers. Um so he wants to do a large uh outdoor entertainment with pipe music, acoustic music um and live bands at certain times on the weekends. So looking for some feedback on that. Um the parking situation has parking has been identified as a concern. Um there's not If you go out there, it the lot's not tiny. I mean, it

there's room for 30 35 cars maybe. I mean, that that are laid out. I mean, how many can you fit? I don't know that exact exact answer. Um, it's been operated as a restaurant for for decades. Um, so we've I know we've both um Nico and I have both contacted adjacent property owners, looked at other options for off-site parking. Valet parking um has also been considered. Um he's indicated a willingness to provide valet parking services on weekends. Um so that's been tossed around for for an option. So staff's basically seeking uh council feedback on the the overall plan for this property. Um so the proposed restaurant use, the renovations proposed, uh the liquor and gaming licenses, uh the parking considerations, um outdoor entertainment, and a potential incentive in the form of a sales tax rebate. Um, and if generally supportive of the proposal, staff will proceed with working with uh with Nico on on the incentive agreement and all the other approvals necessary to move this forward. Thank you. Um, so I'd like to make a a comment real quick regarding the sales tax. So I know there um is things going around that Nico is looking for a sales tax incentive. This is something when uh he approached me about looking at getting the building um he wanted to know what kind of incentives if there was any incentives in place and obviously there is not many opportunities uh for incentives for that property which is what I suggested to staff that sales tax rebate is really the only option. Um so I just wanted to throw that out there. That was kind of me not Nico coming and saying hey I want a sales tax rebate. So I want to publicly say that. Um it was kind of me approaching staff like this is our only option. So, uh, as far as the setup

goes, um, so none, you know, Nico, if you could start from scratch, and I know Doug shared a lot, uh, about the property and what you plan on doing, but, can you kind of bring us up to par on what you're Sure. It's um, Nico, uh, live in Mckenry County. We've been in the restaurant business out here probably for over 35 years. Uh, all our locations are pretty much in Mckenry County, but one right now. Smile. [laughter] smile. Oh lord.

Yeah, it'll probably be in three minutes from now. I'll be on there. [laughter] I'll send you a I'll send you a picture. No problem. No, it's fine. So, I we wanted to be in McKernney for a long time and mayor could attest to that. Uh I was looking at the old uh what was that? Applebees. But

I've been asking Vicki if she would sell for quite some time, probably five, six years. and we finally figured out a deal with her. Um, we love to be on the river and um, I Mckenry is a great town. Uh, I think it would be a great fit for our concept. Um, parking I don't think should Well, I hope we're busy that we'll need more parking, but it's been a restaurant for 40 years, so it's the same building, same parking. Uh, if people can't find a place to park, it's only going to affect us with our revenue. But we've had talks with uh our neighbors at the bowling alley and that went very well today and I just can't go any further because we have nothing in writing yet um for parking over there. And we're also looking at adjacent houses that are next to the bowling alien behind. Uh res renovations. [snorts] It needs a complete overhaul. It's old. We want to add on new bathrooms. Uh, we want to keep the capacity the same inside because we don't want to sprinkle the building. That'd be a big cost. So, if we keep the capacity, I think at 100,

is that correct? 100 or less. Yes.

Then we we'd comply is what I was told by your staff. So, we're going to try to do that. We want to redo all the the peers, the decks. I mean, everything needs to be updated. Uh the kitchen's complete, needs to be gutted, started over. Uh HVAC system, electrical, plumbing, everything needs to be done and we're willing to invest that money for long term. Um can you give some feedback on the kitchen because obviously there's some there was a um some damage there and then they redid the kitchen. Um, but can you because I I think people are talking about this incentive and people are saying, "Well, they just redid the entire kitchen and blah blah blah." [clears throat]

No. Uh, that kitchen needs to be gutted down to the studs and redone completely. It probably be 400 to $500,000 just in the kitchen. The walk-in coolers, the freezers are all shot. Everything needs to be redone. Okay. I'll be happy to walk you through the property if you like. Oh, I know that. I just wanted to make sure publicly. Yeah. like the kitchen is maybe was suited for her needs before, but we're looking for a larger volume and I think we will do it once we complete our project there. I think it'll be a very busy place and we want to make sure the kitchen has enough, you know, the right equipment to push out the business.

Perfect. Um, so let's start off with any questions by the council. Um, any questions that you guys have regarding the project itself and then we could talk about each item. Doug um and get feedback. Uh any questions? Go ahead. Hi, Nico. How are you? Hi. Good.

Thank you very much for considering Mckenry and welcome them. Um I have obviously been to almost all your restaurants numerous times and I hope that that same quality of product and service shows up here because that opportunity on the water is is and could be amazing. Um, just to have something new in your portfolio of restaurants would be great. So, having said that, are you thinking a whole new menu design or are you thinking you're bringing something from somewhere else and duplicating what you already have?

It will be our staple items from our other location, but we also want to do a lot more seafood uh for being on the water. I think it would be great. But um yeah, all our popular items and [clears throat] more seafood I would say right now. So not as casual as it's been. A little bit. Well, it's it's going to be casual because obviously you're getting off your your boat and coming to listen to music and having a good time. Um so it's not going to be upscale dining. Okay. If that's what you're asking. Nope. Nope. Just trying to get a feel for where it fits in in your portfolio. Yeah, I would. Uh we don't have anything on the water, so uh we're going to do some fun stuff with it. Good. Um it'll be

I think it'll be great. Are you going to improve the deck? When you talk about outdoor entertainment, are you going to improve the deck and put in some type of a stage and sound system or what? We'd like to and we're working with ALA architects right now. We just met with them last week, so we told them all the wishes we wanted. So once we get a site plan done and a rendering done, I'll be more than happy to share it with Doug to share with you all. Well, I certainly support you coming to Mckenry again, having dined at many of your opportunities. You guys do a great job and I think it would just be an asset to have in town, particularly on the water. So, thank you. Thank you for uh considering us. [clears throat] Thank you.

Any other questions by council? Aldo ambassy, go ahead.

Hi, thanks. Um, this is a desirable location on the water with boat access. Um, it is not a long-term vacancy and is already a restaurant. While the site improvements will be required, this is not a longtime vacancy in a blighted location. So, financial incentives would be inappropriate. The cost of doing business in Mckenry should be that businesses contribute their fair share of taxes to the city. I support keeping it um a restaurant. I do not support the sales tax rebate. So my question to you is if you do not receive a sales tax rebate, will you still continue?

Well, I'll have to talk about it with my team. Um I do want to be in Mckenry, so I think there's always a way to figure it out, but uh it, you know, we're we're on the wrong side of the river, so the other side of the river is allowed to have different incentives, and we can't. So that's why we asked for this. Right. There's a TIFF on the other side of the river if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Is there a face facade improvement program? Yes. That we don't have either. So maybe move that on this the other side. But this um location has only been emptied what? Not quite a a month yet. So to get something like a tax a sales tax rebate um

I understand your concern would be inappropriate. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you. Any other questions, comments? Go ahead.

Um the only I'm excited to have you and I don't want to reiterate everything that um Alderwoman um Miller just said, but I agree completely. I think it would really be really exciting to have you in town. One thing I'm a little bit concerned about is the music. And I just I don't know if you could expand upon that only because Miller Point and the city and the Riverwalk Foundation invest in weekend entertainment. And I'm just it's hard to even say what would happen if it would interfere, but water is an interesting um sound carrier. And I know with just the couple of bars we have on Green Street, I've heard many complaints about noise from the homes that go down Boone Creek. So, I'm just curious what what you're looking at for the music piece.

Do you guys allow your other bars currently to have outdoor music? uh case by case they have to come in. Yeah. Yeah. The courthouse is allowed they they received a conditional use last year for uh I think between April and October one a month, but that that's it. They can only do one one band a month. Uh everybody else has to meet our um our our noise ordinance requirements and our performance standards

and they're not on the water. Well, I mean that's a thing that I'm just not sure how that sound will carry and how it will Yeah, I don't know either. Being on the water, I mean, my vision, my concept of this location, I think live entertainment outside would be great. Um, obviously Redmill, we have it from Memorial Day to Labor Day kind of thing. We have a for the whole season. We get a permit from the mayor and it's just one permit for the season and we're done. Obviously here, and there many times it's one

sounds like a little different here, which we're willing to work with you and work together on it. No, we don't want neighbors getting mad and calling the police and the chief's going to be coming to us and big ordeal, right? But I I could see afternoon bands, you know, not so late at night like Redmill, we go to midnight. I could see more afternoon stuff on Saturday and Sunday. I could see maybe a Friday, Saturday night have an acoustic person instead of a full band. That'd be a lot different. So, we could adjust. We could work with you, but we need some kind of music. Oh, I agree. And I I mean that would be that would be one of the reasons I would want to go. I just didn't know if you had any information about which direction you were looking. We're flexible there. Okay. But we want some kind of music. Obviously, we'll have piped in music cuz

you know the juke box is playing. That's not a big deal. Everyone has that outside. But we would like some kind of live entertainment. If it ain't a full band at night, we understand. Yeah. If there's an exception and we can get a permit for a holiday, you know, who do we go to? Do we come to the council? Do we go to the mayor? Is there I don't know your process here. and we'll walk you through that. All right.

Yeah. Again, what thanks for coming to the area and taking a look at us. Again, my concern is the music as well. Um I'm the alderman on the other side of the river. Um you know, we've got the courthouse. We've got restrictions on them. I'm not sure with Bimbo's patio and again Miller Point. I mean, I I get the concept and I want the concept, so I want to make it work. Um but that those are also my concerns. No problem. and we want to be friendly, friendly neighbors, and we don't want to aggravate anybody. So, if we could have some kind of communication and work out something, we'll be fine with that. Go ahead, Andy.

Yeah. No, excuse [clears throat] me. Uh, I've been most of your restaurants and I think, uh, it's a great opportunity for our city as well as yourself. I think it's a great property. Um, one of the questions I had is why is that business not for the facade grant? Why are they not eligible? It's it's only designated for certain geographic areas in the city. Uh Route 31, Route 120, uh the TIFF district, and they're spelled out within the program. It just wasn't in the entire city. Okay. So, that's something that could be looked at possibly.

It could be alternative. I'm not really in I'm not really in support of the um the tax either. Um but the facade grant I think that could be an easy fix if there's you know still availability and if they you know hit the criter the other criteria and stuff maybe that's something we can look at. But um I think it's a great property. I think it's a good opportunity. Obviously, you have great successful businesses, so I think it's it's probably a good fit. Good. Thank you. Thank you, Cook.

I've never been to one of your establishments, but from what everybody raves around here about your place, I'm going to go out this weekend and look if it's not too cold. But, uh, I too am kind of against that tax thing. Maybe we can work something out, you know, with facade or something like that. Uh, oh, I I would want you in here and stuff like that. But is this type like the trio, the gas stations, this tax incentive thing, the rebate with Yeah. So there Yeah, we have we have them. We have several in the city,

right? I understand that. I was just wondering if that's the the direction that it's going. Thank you. Well, just to be clear on this tax incentive, when I was talking to Mr. Martin, I asked him about TIFF money or facade improvement money and it was all nothing was available. Nothing was available. He's the one that brought up to me, if I'm not mistaken, that Mson Marina had something similar to this that maybe a week that the city council would be uh in favor of. So, I didn't come running knocking on your door asking for 500,000 like the Northwest Herald stated in the paper. But I want to make be transparent. Yeah, that that's accurate. Okay. Yes.

Does it make sense to maybe there's some It sounds like there's some confusion about, you know, the tax incentive and stuff like that. Does it make sense to maybe take a couple minutes or to kind of go over what that Yeah, we're going to go over each individual packet. Obviously, it didn't go into Yeah. No, it didn't. So, we'll go we'll go over those details by one by one. Okay. But, I wanted to get the majority of the questions or concerns out of the way before we start [snorts] talking about each other. Alman Glenn, any questions? I was more on the tax incentive than anything. Uh okay. I was just kind of wondering what kind of dollars we're looking at and Sure. What kind of how many years are we talking about as far as uh the tax rebate? Understand.

So that's that's my concerns. Uh there's uh uh no doubt in my mind that you've got a great reputation out there and uh the restaurants that you have and uh I am delighted to see that you're looking at Mckenry. So, uh I'm open for a lot of different types of discussions on it. Okay. Thank you. So, let's start off with the sales tax rebate then. Let's just start that off. Um, Doug, do you want to explain, you know, a little bit about the sales tax rebate, how it works, and then also, you know, did you two discuss any amounts at all or anything like that? We discussed the the months in agreement. Yeah.

So, that was um so the sales tax rebate um the the applicant would get back a a set percentage. The city gets 1% back of the base sales tax and then half percent home rule sales tax. we go off typically the 1% we we retain the home rule sales tax in our sales tax agreements most of the time that's how we we've done it um and then we um each year we've done 20-year agreements 15-year agreements I'm more in favor of shorter term agreements than longer term agreements so I would recommend going lower than that like 10 years or less um so you pick a term agreement and then you get a percentage of the base 1% of sales uh for say 50% for five years or [clears throat] 25% for the first five years, 50% for six years, 50 whatever percentage you want for how many years and you can scale it, you can proportion it. You can go 25% for the first three years, 75% for for the fourth year, you know, however you want to do it. then the city retains the remainder of the sales tax and then when the agreement is up is is when it the term is up or when the maximum rebate is fulfilled. Um either either one applies. Um so the applicant would get and the applicant the rebate is based on improvements that the the applicant does and he submits those improvements to me and they're attached to the agreement. So, the proposed improvements would be um uh he submitted um some proposed improvements like the facade um the outdoor uh improvements, the upgrades to the kitchen, the ADA bathrooms, those would all be uh put as

an exhibit to the agreement and cost to those would be approximate cost would be attached to them and then that's how we come up with an amount. But then this is all reimbursement basis. So he had had to provide lean waiverss, contractor's affidavit or invoices for each each uh type of work that he did to get reimbursed and uh it's on an annual basis that he get reimbursed and he'd only get reimbursed that specific percentage for that year which was designated in the agreement. So does that make sense?

Everyone understand that part? Okay. Just want to make sure everyone's on the same page on that. Um, so I guess we could turn to you. Is there a specific amount that you are looking Mayor? There's not. I I'd rather see you guys all meet on your own and figure something out and just, you know, propose something. Okay. You know, it could be a facade. It doesn't have to be that. It could be anything. We're just, you know, we're probably in a $3.5 million investment. You know, uh, I get where you're sitting. I was on the city council also, so I I understand, but I think it's more that you guys should just figure something out. Uh we're going to keep going forward with our deal with uh Miss Vicki and hopefully we could work something out that works for everybody. Sounds good. Suzanne,

uh Doug, just just so the city council is aware, can you tell us specifically what the terms were of the Mson agreement and and really what the negotiation points are on an agreement like this?

Sure. Um so the term the number of years uh the Mson one is a 20-year agreement. Um it was capped at $500,000. Um the the one thing I did forget that's important, there's a clawback provision. So if they do um go out of business or they close or you know they um say they close after year one um the the percentage received that has to be repaid of that rebate to the city. There's a certain percentage that has to be repaid to the city of the rebate that's in the agreement from years one to uh however many years you want to do that for. Uh so from months it was from 1 to 12 it starts out as 100% and goes down to 50 at year 12. um months in the specific uh I have the agreement up right here. Um the specific improvements, you know, were um [clears throat] included um tapping into the sewer main and service lines to the building. um plumbing to washrooms. Uh glass windows on a front showroom. Um steel rafters, replacing steel roof rafters, installing cabinets on a counter. Um four new washrooms with showers. Um remodeling two metal buildings, installing concrete curbing along the waterfront sidewalk, and there's a bunch of things. This is just a long list of things that they were on on their list of we call them site improvements, right? So,

yeah. So, but I think I think the key things to understand are all of the terms of these types of agreements are negotiable. So, it's there's a specific time period that it would last for. There are specific uh improvements that would need to be made and that's what the amount is tied to. And then there's a specific cap. So, for example, the Mson agreement I think caps out at $500,000. So, so if if in 10 years or whatever the term is, if you don't hit that cap, then you don't pay out all of that all of that money in in in rebates. So, all right. So, anyone have any questions after that discussion? Go ahead. All the one Bassie.

Right. I just want to confirm that in the months in agreement, it's 20 years or $500,000 um rebate, whichever comes first. Correct. So that would be the same situation here. 10 years or less, x amount of um dollars, whichever comes first. Well, we haven't established that. Okay. But I know you were saying that's the concept though. Yes. But you were saying 10 years. Thanks. Yeah. Any questions, comments? Okay. So, what we'll do that one. Go ahead. All done.

Yeah. Have we done some engineering on this property and everything? I mean, as far as any of the do you have any major um re rehab of the building that uh that you needed engineered and you know where you're at? Our architects were out there last week and uh the survey just got finished. Um you talking about structural structural engineer? You talking about structurally? Yeah. Building itself. I mean, is there any issues?

It looks pretty solid solid to me. I mean, it's been there a long time, but we'll make sure with the architects, they would uh we're going we plan on adding on bathroom, so I'm pretty sure that they're going to have to make sure the your walls and foundations are fine. I know it's on a crawl space, I think. Right. No, all I'm getting is I keep thinking of the bank and uh you know they come in and uh they ask for this and that and then they when they do the engineering all of a sudden it's a whole different story. So yeah uh I just want to be sure that as we're going forward that uh we keep moving forward.

Yep. Understand. Any questions, comments? So what we'll do regarding sales tax? I will talk to each individual council member and meet with everyone, you know, and we'll we'll talk about what everyone's thoughts are and then uh I'll get back to C uh staff with it and then we can negotiate from there if that's the decision that the council decides. Um is that good with everyone on that? Uh as far as sound, you want to go ahead and hit on sound a little bit questions regarding sound. I know the sound is definitely a concern um for late night. Okay. because um there there is some concerns about other bars that are late night and you hear it down the river, it does echo pretty far. Um so I mean that's obviously a concern for late night. Um you do have Bimosa has nice outdoor seating. So I think they're a concern um and talking to the owner that it's not so loud that it's affecting his customers. Um, but I think you know there's things that can be worked out and negotiated and in conversations with staff and and yourself. I believe um acoustic is awesome. Um I know you want to go bigger go home kind of thing person and I love that. Um love Nico's love live music obviously. So I think there's ways to to work through that and I'm hoping that staff and you uh and I can work that out. Um, but does anyone have any other concerns besides the sound as far as um late night um affecting the businesses in downtown? Alman Cook,

do we have it to where uh talk with the courthouse or Nikico's or anything else like that that it doesn't interfere with the city of Mckenry's say like St. Patrick say or you know fiesta days and all that or they have bands at the point right is would there be some something in the contract saying okay uh you're going to guys you have to tone it down because of we can do we can do anything right

okay well I was just throwing it out thereations and also like during events live events especially St. Patrick's Days uh St. Patrick's Day like we we talked to all the businesses. Um remember um Foxhole did some uh stuff on their property. So it's just working with those individual owners uh during Shamrocks. Now other events uh Miller Point does you know obviously concerts on the weekends and you know I'm sure Nico would not want to interfere and cause problems on both sides. Maybe it's a time thing. Um maybe they don't play music on these certain times and then that crowd wants to listen to more live music. they can go over to Nico, you know, something like that. But I'm just right. I was just looking at it. Is there some kind of protocol that you know, you

informed the businesses and everything else like that? Okay. And I will say like we met with all the businesses in part of all the events. I mean, how many people are in that room, Bill? 40. You know, so we met with all the businesses and different people that do events and and that's what we do really well as collaborating and I think uh we will definitely be doing the same thing. But we can always put anything in in the agreement to make sure that it's not I agree. I just wanted to know protocol so it doesn't interfere with the city's plans. Sure. Although ambassy, um I just want to confirm that based on my calculations, there are four council members that are against the sales rebate, the sales tax rebate. So if there's four out of three, would this be a debt issue?

I wouldn't say they're against it in my in my opinion. All right, we'll say not support, right? But until we negotiate and have conversations, I think, you know, I wouldn't say it's off the table if I'm not mist I mean you you four can tell me differently, but I think until we have a deeper conversation about the sales tax and how much it even would be, um I wouldn't say anyone just says I whatever. So if you four are totally against it, then we could just say it's done. But I I don't think that's the right move. I think we should figure out, you know, have some discussion and and see really where people stand after after this meeting. Almond Davis.

Yeah. My comment to that is [clears throat] um now that I've had an explanation, yes. Once once we have, you know, more concrete numbers, I would that's when I would really make my decision. So, I'm not opposed to it wholeheartedly at this point. Let's let's see what the numbers and where everything lies before we make that decision. with that cook. I also, you know, I want to hear more numbers and everything else like that. I'm not against it. I'm not going to jump in throw my head into the ring because I like my head. But, um, yeah, I'm not against it. And I'm, you know, I like to hear the finer details. That's all. And we're leaving that up to the village and the staff.

I understand that. I didn't come here for a certain number. We're just, uh, we're not shooting you down. Just trying to bring a new business to the town. And then uh obviously if you guys don't want that, you could tell us tell us now. It's fine. No, it's not not a problem at all. I'm glad you agree with that. We're good with that. Having a conversation and then Absolutely. Okay. All right. So, we're good. Hold on, B. No, you're good. All right. Uh what was the next item that we need to discuss? Uh liquor and gaming. Is there any concerns regarding liquor and gaming at this location? They've had liquor and gaming here and no no issues. Okay. So, that's a mute point. Uh, anything? What is the other item? There's one more, I think. Parking.

Uh, can you hit on parking a little bit and what your thoughts are? I obviously you did a little bit. I apologize. Yeah, but what's the difference? We're not changing the use of the property. So, why is that even an issue? Because popularity. Well, maybe that. But still zone, the same zoning, correct? Still the same use. So, parking should be the same.

So, any questions regarding parking? I don't have any questions, but I think it's a really great opportunity to further encourage people in town to walk through our community and being that there's a nice safe walkway to get from downtown into, you know, that location. I think it's, you know, I'm I'm really loving to see the community walk more and use the Riverwalk to, you know, get to these places. So, I think that's a great opportunity. That'd be great if you could make a sidewalk across to us. Yeah. [laughter] Well, there is on the on the bridge. The bridge has a nice sidewalk. The bridge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Maybe not tonight.

Any other questions regarding parking? Miller? No. I'll just bring up again as a patron of Nico's other establishments. They do a great job on maximizing their parking. um the Woodstock location. I don't know how many parking expansions you've done there, but every time you've done a new project out there or did a shift, you've added parking or found a solution. So, I think we're dealing with a restaurant tour who understands that if there's a problem, he'll go find a solution. Like you already talked to the bowling alley. I I don't think we're dealing with someone who's going to say, "Oh, I don't know what to do in Rose." We're not going to make it a big mess. We're Trust us, we want more property around there. We want to make it nice and

yeah, and you'll be happy with the results. I think we're dealing with someone who's solutionoriented and will find the solution because he's demonstrated that in all of his other establishments. So, um I I'm very confident that it won't be an issue for long. Okay, perfect. All right. [snorts] Anything else? That was it. No, it Thank you very much. Okay. Anything you want to say? [snorts] No. Uh thank you for your time. But to everyone and uh staff, council, and mayor, thank you. Sounds good. We're we're excited. And what we'll do is uh I'll meet with staff and I'll meet with council members regarding the sales tax and other discussions and then uh we'll get back to you uh promptly. Now, again, it doesn't have to be sales tax rebate. I get it. I get it.

Whatever you have on the east side or the west east, you know, share them. That's all. I get it. Okay. Thank you, Nico. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you, council. Next item on the agenda is uh agenda is 7B unified development ordinance diagnostic report presentation. Director Palki,

certainly. I'll be short with this. I'm going to bring Parker up. He's from HDR, our uh UDO consultant who uh um city council has uh approved uh to redo our or actually create a unified development ordinance for us. Um this portion of the project is a diagnostics report presentation. So HDR has kind of gone through all of our ordinances um and they've really got uh some questions and some um looking for a little bit of guidance on what the next steps and where to go uh in the creation of the UDO. So with that being said, Parker's got a presentation he wants to give to you uh a short presentation and then I think you'll probably open it up for uh questions and answer uh you know uh comments on it. So

thanks Ross. I am Parker McDall from HDR. This is I'll be giving the presentation on the diagnostic report that we've ran through. I will try to keep this high level and brief just so we could have open that time for discussion. Uh the general presentation will be we'll talk about the purpose why we're doing the UDO, what we found in our research and review especially with the stakeholder interviews and then what we found in the documents and then our general recommendations as far as the process administration and district uses are the big ones and what the next steps will be. So to start off, the purpose of this report was to analyze all the existing codes, go through everything and see what Mckenry had to identify the gaps and outdated provisions and the areas that need improvements, the recommended changes to development standards and process and policies which you'll find in the document and how we can align this development regulations with the recently adopted um comprehensive plan and downtown plans and provide the roadmap for the EDO and how to get there. So as part of the research and review, one of the first steps we did was hold stakeholder interviews. We talked to members of the community, developers, engineers, builders, and people who use the code in the city. And on this screen is the kind of word cloud we created on one of the main things you heard we heard. And as you can see, housing character, the commercial rules, and then just support were the main things we've heard as far as document review and alignment. We did use the comprehensive plan as kind of in the downtown plan, those goals as the lens to review the development ordinances. And we want to make sure we maintain those goals, which are sustainable growth, economic resilience, and then the infrastructure and financial sustainability. These are the uh general recommendations and I'll just go through these high level. The big thing we saw was that document organization. We want to make sure that we provide a clear layout and

hierarchy and then group everything related together and then eliminate redundant languages without losing forceful details. And this is an example what we've done for another community. As you can see, we try to condense everything and use graphics and tables wherever possible because those are easier to digest if you're a layman and don't use the code every day like planners or engineers. [clears throat] This includes making sure that the regular hierarchy, the numbering system is consistent throughout as well as making sure that it's not bulleting and numbers. These are all numbers or all bullets and it's easy to read through. This also make sure that all the definitions are in one spot. Right now, we found they've kind of scattered throughout in different chapters. We want to make sure that this is in one chapter and it's clear as well as the page layout. As I showed that example, we want to make sure it's easy to read and digest. We want to make sure that the code uses more tables and graphs. Right now, it is very text heavy document. These tables and graphs can really condense that and shorten the length of the code in general. as well as uh code maintenance. As you know that when there's an update, it requires public hearing and to come to the body. We want to make sure that the staff has as many options as possible to maintain it on the administrative level and then bring the big picture items to council. Accessibility, we want to make sure that it's very easy to search the code. I know trying to search certain provisions, it can be kind of difficult. So, we want to make sure that if there's references to other codes or other documents, it's hyperl and we'll take it to where you need to go. Part of the process, we went through all the different chapters of the code and kind of summarize what we found and what the action items to be. And so generally we found that just cleaning it up and

just making sure everything is where people expect it to be and in predictable places will be important. So we'll go through every one of these. Um but we did look through all the different districts. We did note that Mckenry has 23 different districts which is a large number compared to other communities. And these are all the districts. Again we did look at the conditional use non-conformity performing standard performance standards and then the plan developments and I won't go through every these points but these are the basic principles of codew writing that we will be following and to give it kind of a high level we're going to be looking at the big three points which are organization arranging content logically using clear headings and grouping related topics together. Make sure that there's clarity and consistency using plain language, consistent terms and references while avoiding jargon and outdated provisions. Accessibility and usability, making documents easy to navigate, visually clear with graphics were helpful in ensuring it's understandable for both professionals and the general public. One of the big things we heard with the stakeholders was making sure that the code is predictable. We want to make sure that when they're doing their due diligence or their own entitlement, that what they read is what they hear from staff and the city council. And this helps benefits everyone who uses the code, including the neighbors who then know what's expected to be built, the developers, they'll know what direction and pathways they'll need to take to get their development built in the city. and as well as city staff in general which will make sure that they know what they can be approved will meet what's in the code. We also looked at the roles and responsibilities throughout the code and to make sure that it's consistent throughout. So if it says planning

staff, city engineer, or zoning administrator that we pick one of those titles and make sure that it's consistent. We do recommend using the generic which is administrator because administrator can be defined to most departments. It can be city administrator. It can be community development director. It can be whoever city council decides it to be. And as well we did look at um potentially other best practices when it comes to giving different boards and bodies uh powers. For instance, one of the items we looked at was potentially giving planning and zoning commission approval over certain items. And I do want to reiterate that these are just the planning best practices and at the end of the day, you all are the experts on Mckenry and you can tell us what you want to see and what you don't want to see. So there's something one of these action items that you don't agree with, you can always tell us and we'll make sure that it's taken out or we go in a different direction. Part of this is making sure that we end up streamlining the process. We want to make sure that when a development comes in, starting from just doing their due diligence, that they have a very clear picture of where it's going and that staff knows what direction to send this in. So that if there ever is 10, 15 years from now staff change over turnover that it's the same process that we approve with this UDL. Here's an example of a way that can be done through using more graphics such as the flowchart. This is another example from another community we've done this for where we've outlined the general review process with graphics, color coding, so it's very easy to give someone at the counter. They come up and say, "Hey, here's what the process is. The plan submitt requirements. The current ordinance includes detailed application requirements, but the requirements are scattered across multiple different sections. It's

unclear on who to contact in certain instances and the best practice would be to use checklists to maintain the outside and outside the ordinance of flexibility. So that allows staff to make those changes to the process that don't necessarily require to come back to council without the legislate approval. So this is the one other thing that we identify as needing to be updated was that the city has those 23 different zoning districts that we've grouped into three categories. Residential, commercial, office, and industrial. There's too many districts which can cause confusion and overlap. And the goal would be to simplize and consolidate while preserving the intent of those districts. Part of the also is that the current permitted use are located in those different districtses. We feel like the best action way forward would to create a use table to have all those uses in one spot. So the people using the code aren't looking in different areas. They just go to that one section that has all the uses and we'll show them which district they can build in, which districts they can't. So it makes it easier for staff. The arrangements of the arrangement of the uses. Uh this would looked at using some mixed use such as making it where homes, shops, and office and schools can be built into one walkable area. The current ordinance limits mixed use which creates less flexibility and more driving. The vision 2025 calls for vibrant connecting neighborhoods. So by picking areas to allow this mixed use and removing those unnecessary restrictions can help meet those community visions as well as setbacks. If the community wants to make a more walkable areas, we can look to remove those setbacks or change those setbacks to whatever the community and council desires. The larger setbacks equals less usable space and more driving. When it's

more flexible, it allows for easier infill and pedestrian designs. As far as residential districts goes, there are nine base residential districts, mostly suburban, that all will focus on the single family lots and doesn't match the changing demographics of Mckenry. What we heard as well from stakeholders that there needs to be more housing diversity and walkable neighborhoods. And to do that, we could look at converting from lot size district to density based district, which is instead of being the traditional land use, it's based off of the density of the district for the homes or even mixed use or multif family, however you want to to allocate it or expand the districts to allow a variety of housing types that are complimentary to each other. As far as commercial and mixed use, there are five commercial districts that are mostly auto dependent. Our goal with this, the city should is encourage walkability and mixed use near commercial areas and address the big box development impacts. And this can be done by minimizing setbacks and mixed use in commercial districts. Encourage higher residential higher density residential near these commercial redevelopments and establish standards to mitigate impacts for large format retailers. As far as industrial goes, there are five indust office industrial district. The we think that the industrial should just main as exclusive uses to protect the long long-term economic development prevent incompatible conversions. So this one will be not touched as much as the others. So as far as the next steps, we just completed the diagnostic report and then we're looking into doing the community uh engagement which I believe we talked to city staff and potentially do like pop-up events at events like the Shamrock as well as we have an website that we'll be launching after these uh meetings with the planning and zoning commission and then council tonight. Uh, and then we'll look with staff to

whatever other events they feel like we could do quicker, smaller pop-ups to kind of inform people and get their input on what they want the code to be. Because at the end of the day, um, this UDO is a way where the rubber meets the road from the last two plans I've been done, the community get the the, uh, comprehensive plan and the downtown plan. And really, we're here to provide the best practices, but we're going to listen to the community on how to implement that and what you guys want Mckenry to look like and how you want that vision to be implemented. And so, with that, I'm able to answer any questions. Any questions? Any questions by the council?

Alder Miller,

I'm excited. Um, co [clears throat] Cody and I have had this conversation for a long time. Cody, you're going to be known as the UDO ordinance guy by the time you're done with this. But, um, uh, the words that kept coming off the page to me were clarity, consistency, and convenience. that our ordinances are too convoluted for someone to walk off the street and navigate them. Um, we see that in planning and zoning all the time where something applies or something doesn't apply or I hear Cody saying, "Well, that's not quite how that works." And I I think in order to move forward, we need to be clear, consistent, and convenient. And you nailed that in this presentation. And I'm certain that your stakeholders when you start getting more comments from our community, they're going to say the exact same thing. Um, we we need to understand it. We need to navigate it and it needs to be easy. So, I think you're headed in the right direction and I'm I'm thrilled.

Thank you. And I will add that um one common thread we did here was that Ross and Cody were great to work with and that they've were able to use this code that they currently have to to get through and we're excited to build a tool for Ross and Cody to use and help development be streamlined. You owe him lunch or something after that [laughter] time. It's review time. Perfect timing. Um Alderman Glav, go ahead. [laughter]

Yeah, I've got uh to say that yes, uh I can recall when I first got on the council that you could pick up the uh the ordinance books and very easily you could find everything and anything you wanted and I've seen so many changes over the last 25 30 years that uh it's just mindboggling. Uh however um some of the things that you've mentioned in here and I think uh this is where I think we really need to be cautious. One one sentence right here kind of sums it up. Simply put, development expectations that are not included in the ordinance are not enforcable. which means that it just like the county right now, we've seen it with the um the solar farms county is held hostage because of the fact that as long as it meets their criteria that they're supposed to approve it, they can't deny it.

We don't want to be in that type of situation because, you know, we have a unique town. There's unique different situations and different proposals. Some of them work and some of them don't. We don't want to wind up in a situation to where we can't say no. Correct. So, we have to be very careful with that. Um, you mentioned something in here about city manager. We don't have a city manager. We have a city administrator. Yeah. And that is the type of government we have. We don't have a city manager type government. Yeah.

Uh you mentioned uh planning and zoning uh making decisions for us. They are not the elected officials. Correct. They are appointed. Okay. They are supposed to take and do the research to bring it back to the council, you know. Correct. So some of these terms uh you know a little um [snorts] how would you say a little worried about?

Yes. And that's why we have been presenting this. So for instance like the planning and zoning commission if that's not something the city council wants that's something we can definitely remove and we won't pursue forward. We don't want it to where the seven of us to make a decision uh to set up everything to where oh everything's going to roll without us. Correct. Because that's basically what it what it [clears throat] seems like uh you're you're setting up. I mean it's not you know what percentage of what's coming to council now won't even come to council. I mean I take a look at what used to come to council 15 and 20 years ago never reached this desk. And and now you're talking about this UDO that's going to what? reduce that even more.

And that's one of the things that that's not something the city council is interested in pursuing. This is kind of we've looked at it as what other ways communities have done and kind of planning best practices on to kind of take the load off council. But if that's not something council interested in, we'll just strike that and not pursue that up. you know that lot a lot of people can make the argument that oh we need something like this to make it easier to bring in more developers and everything else and uh I can recall when we used to have uh a planning commission and we used to have a zoning commission and you had to go to the planning first and then you went to zoning and then you came to the council and oh we combined the two to make it easier but you know what it didn't bring any more developers It it just made it easier for them to come in and things would slip through, you know, because of the fact that there were

different all one group rather than two different groups looking at it. The more people that look at a project or, you know, the better the project will wind up at the end, the more people that look at it. So, I mean, these are things that uh concern me and uh I just figure I'd bring them up. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for bringing those up. We'll make sure that um we note that going forward. Bassie.

Hi, thank you. I actually have three questions for you. Um and I do think this is a much needed product. So, um thank you for that. In September, the city provided a list of stakeholders for you to conduct um interviews. Many of these questions were about shaping how the city grows and develops. Representatives from Shodine and Redwood were included in these interviews. Is that correct? I believe so. Yes.

Okay, perfect. Um, it is not realistic that developers that do not live in Mckenry would answer these questions in a way that prioritizes Mckenry and its residents themselves. So my first question to you is will the developer feedback be used only to improve the code um in communicating to de to developers and not how they think the community what the community needs. Um also will you provide council with the raw data? You don't have to include who said it but would you be um providing the raw data to the council from the interviews? So to answer the first part about the developers, um we did get their feedback. We did focus mainly on how is the development process in Mckenry and we did do we did follow that line of questioning to see what potential roadblocks there were, but that's not going to be the only thing we look at when drafting this ordinance. We will look at the residents um feedback as well

and try to strike that balance that still keeps Mckenry's character and their goals but also make it where developers know the process forward. And as far as Yeah, go ahead. It's only I'm sorry. It's only going to be used for process improvement, not what they see that the city needs. So we did ask them stuff like infrastructure to see if they did need infrastructure improvements. We did take that in consideration with our summary, but again the day is you all the approval B approving body. So we'll make sure that it meets council's approval and council's direction.

Okay. Could you actually send the raw data to Suzanne and she could then forward it to all of us or Monty? Yeah, I can send it to Ross and Cody summary notes.

Okay. All right. That's my first question. And then there is language in the report that appears to advocate for allowing development that does not require a zoning change to be approved by staff without councel. In the report on page 23, quote, "Developments that clearly support the goals and policies of the comprehensive land use plan should not be required to navigate unnecessary red tape. Such development should be permitted through administrative byright approvals to the extent possible." End quote. If I'm interpreting interpreting this correctly and please tell me this means that if development arguably falls within the guidelines set in the land use plan, it can be approved by staff without going to council. As you know, council is directly elected by residents and should have absolute discretion um in approving or rejecting significant developments because we are actually accountable to the residents. Um whether or not a development is in align with the city's future land use is only one factor that should be considered in the decision. the reputation of a developer, the quality and design of the de development, whether or not the development will complement the current landscape and density um proposed are important factors that should be considered. Removing council's ability to consider these factors and base their votes on that is concerning. Even more concerning is that this would remove residents ability to voice their support or objection in an open public meeting on future developments. We should be encouraging greater residents

participation in dealing with direct decisions for the city not less. So my question to you is did I interpret this correctly and if so why is this being recommended? So the intent of that was to make it more so that if a use is allowed by right and there might have been other um factors that may prevent it from moving forward such as like it doesn't meet the parking to certain extent or there's some other requirements that are found in a UDO that it doesn't meet 100% to give staff some wiggle room to work with those developers to kind of get that product that would benefit the city and meet the intent of the code. But if that's not a direction council wants to take, as I mentioned with the planning and zoning powers, we can look at it that way as well to say what do we want to keep everything going to council and what discretion does council want to give staff to make some of these decisions.

Okay, thank you. And then my final question, this one's going to be painless. The com uh the community engagement steps for the vision 2050 comprehensive plan was predominantly centered around events in the downtown districts. This resulted in residents and outof town visitors to the downtown districts having greater feedback in the process. For the community engagement portion of this process, residents should have an equal opportunity to convey to conveniently engage and provide feedback. Equal opportunity means hosting events west of 31. This can include the baseball fields in Legend Lakes and Peterson Park during the games and Fort Mckenry Park on weekends. So my question to you is, will you commit to hosting events across the city so all residents can conveniently participate?

Yeah, and that's a a good question and that's kind of what we mentioned like with the pop-up events like the baseball games. I wasn't aware of. That'd be a great one to send someone out just to say, "Hey, here's like a a sheet with basically what we're doing or a QR code that goes to the website that has a survey that residents can answer." And as far as making sure that the data is coming from the citizens of Mckenry, not people from out of town, when we do those online uh engagements or the surveys that people could take online but in person

at those events, we can filter it by the zip code that they entered in to make sure it's only residents of Mckenry that we're looking at. And if they're outside, make them identify themselves as developers, builders, or what have you, and why they're doing business in Mckenry. So, yeah, we we would look at we'd work with city staff to determine what events we can help at and do those popups. Okay. So, then again, my question is, will you commit to doing things on the west side of town? As you well know, Legend Lakes parks are always jammed in the weekends with lots of children and their parents and their grandparents. So, this would be a great opportunity to get feedback from the res.

Yes, I think it's very possible for us to work with staff to get some of those events coordinated on the west side of town. Right. And as Alderman Glab knows, Fort Mckenry is always busy. There's tons of children outside. again opportunity for parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents to be able to um fill out the surveys. Yeah, that sounds very possible. We should be able to do that. Okay, thank you. Any other question? Alman Davis, go ahead.

Um [clears throat] more of a comment I guess only because I've seen this on multiple different things, not just this. So, I will just reiterate my understanding. This is a report. These are you went through all of our policies and everything and this is these are your recommendations. Correct. These are not set in stone. Correct.

These are things that will be discussed which way we want to go. We'll have a say on how these are. I think sometimes uh we get a little critical on this and we're asking questions assuming this is set in stone rather than hey this is our recommendation you're we're going to tell them how we want this to go or this development [clears throat] was brought up and hey here's what we could do but people are taking this as this is gospel this is what's going to happen and I want to make that we understand that that's not the case. So being overly critical at this point, I think is jumping the gun because these are just recommendations and best practices that other cities and organizations are using. So um am I correct in

that is correct. Yes, you will. Every time that we have um before anything is approved and set in stone, it will come back for this body and they say we'll have several community engagement events. As we go more into the writing, we will present this to the community and you all. Here's what we have so far. What do you think? And then there'll be ample time for not just this body to provide comments, but the citizens of McHenry as well. Okay. Yeah, that's all. Any other Benny? I'm just assuming, but let me know if I'm correct, that the website will be an opportunity for everybody to be able to submit their thoughts. So whether if you can't attend an event regardless of where in town it's held, that website will be kind of an equal place that people can access.

That is correct. We'll have a surve like a we'll have a community survey on there where they can answer on general questions to how they think this should go as well as keep involved on community engagement events we have. like we'll post it on there like hey we'll be at the parks on this date and this time and they can follow along the whole process. We'll post the diagnostic report on there so the community can read it as well as well as any other drafts that we work on so they can if they're not able to attend any meetings they can still follow along and read what we're producing.

So what is the the process look like? So obviously the next step is this community engagement piece. And to Alderman Davis's point, which I really appreciate, when do things come back to council again and and when do you start working through the finer points, you know, as to what we want to do or don't want to do? Yeah, I believe once we have our first draft, we will hold a uh I believe it's a correctly wrong, but the contract says we'll do a workshop with the council and planning zoning commission and kind of present the draft and make any edits that we want. Okay. So yeah, there'll be time to address the draft and go through it section by section and make those edits.

Great. And the college professor in me really appreciates things that are clear and I loved reading through some of these recommendations. Just as a homeowner, people ask me questions and you try to figure it out and I really appreciate the graphs and bullet points and things that just make it easy to read. So thank you. Pictures are great. Alderman Miller,

I I think that's part of this process that I appreciate more more each time you speak that this is not the first time we've worked with HDR and you already have a database of people that you've engaged with on the two other pieces on the comprehensive plan and on the vision plan. Um, and I think if I remember off the top of my head on the comprehensive plan, you had almost 700 touches on your community outreach. So, I'm certain that you'll probably cross that and make sure that those people are reached for their input, which again brings me great confidence that what we get is going to be consistent with the other two plans we've already done. and those key stakeholders have a voice that they've already expressed. So, you've created a channel or a pathway of trust with them that they're going to give you some true observations and and and I'm grateful for that because sometimes you go into an ordinance rewrite with someone who's not familiar with your community and you end up with a hodgepodge, which is what we're trying to get away from because that's what we already have. So, um I'm just grateful that you guys have been forthcoming with this project and will give us to Alderwoman Bassy's point the data from our community. I mean, you've got those touch points already there which have far exceeded industry norms. I mean, normally you have 2%. You guys are well ahead of 2% when you just have the 700 touches that you've already had. So, thank you. Yeah, we certainly hope to get robust community engagement with this one as well. And

I think it's important for us as, you know, elected officials to get it out to our residents and in your wards and in the city um through social media and e eblast that some of you have. So I think that's important that we do that as well. So any other questions, comments? All right. I think it's also important that your mic

just um as we're continuing to communicate more um that we continue to focus on a central point of communication. So you know for Monty this needs to be all over our social this needs to be all over our website so that if that's where people are being driven to obviously it can you know redirect to your data capture website but you know the the clarity and communication isn't quite there yet from a city standpoint. I don't think any city excels at that because you have too many start points, but this can be part of that process as well.

All right. Well, thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a good night. Be safe. All right. Any uh staff reports this evening? None. Okay. Oh, Ross, go ahead.

I have one. Um we uh last week we uh formally uh received the uh Boone Creek Unit 7 um uh permit application. So uh pulary engineering um and uh plats of that things of that nature have come through. So we have those uh moving on to the uh HR green or our engineering consultant um for review. So you can expect to see some of that uh coming forward in the future. But give it some time. These things take some time. So, um, but the next step for them would be the planning and zoning hearing. So, just so you're aware. Thanks. That is, uh, roughly 600 homes.

That's the LAR development to be clear. Yes. Right. All right. And, uh, I have no mayor's report this evening. City council comments. None. Um, at this time, I ask the public to please step out. We're going to go into executive session. uh regarding the setting the price for sale or lease of the property owned by a public body 5CS120-2C6. I'm looking for a motion to enter executive session. Alder Miller. Uh so moved. Second. Alderman Cook. Second that motion. Monty, whenever you're ready. Alderwoman Miller. Yes. Alderman Cook. Yes. Alderman Davis. Yes. Alderwoman Bassie. Yes. Alderman Dhy. Yes. Alderman Glab.

Yes. Alderwoman Bainy. Yes. [cough]