Environmental Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

And I'm ready to move your bed.

Constantly going to school here.

Hey, Laurie. That's.

Call to order. Special joint meeting with Parks and Rec. Welcome. Glad we could finally get together. Roll call. David, why don't you start us off?

I'm David Fredelen.

Alba Ovi Patel. Lori Fial.

Stefan Califf, environmental advisory board liaison.

Trish Sturgis, Parks and Recreation Advisory Board.

Dave Barron, Parks Board.

Joan Morgan, Parks Board.

Shannon, do we have any public comment?

Not at this time.

All right. Need to approve

Excuse me, Chair. Just want to mention that Jessica just joined us.

Hello, Jessica. Good to see you.

Am I on now, Molly?

Right on the phone. There

were sandhill cramps outside of that.

Item 25Dash2396 approve 06/02/2025 EAV meeting minutes. Need a motion.

I put in a motion to approve the minutes from the June 2 meeting.

Seconded.

Seconded. I second it.

'm going

and and thing.

Ir

to

be doing. And I Why don't you tell us?

Tell us about

oh, got to put your mic on. Thank you. Tell us about How about quickly give us your name and kind of while you're on EAB or your respective Let's try and keep it relatively crisp, right? We've a fair amount to go through in a short amount of time.

Jessica Ike. I'm a Florida native. But I lived away for a lot

of my adult life.

And I moved back here when I retired. And I'm here because I care about the environment. And I have ever since I was a little kid.

Very good. Thank you.

I'm David Frattoloni. I'm here because for what I wanna do, I wanna be a zoologist, and I love just taking care of the environment and the wildlife around it. So that's kinda been my passion since I was a little kid.

My name's Omie Patel, and I'm part of the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. The reason why I wanted to join in the first place was to help contribute to the further development of Northport. I've been here since I was growing up. And one thing that I like to observe every now and then is the development of new institutions around here in Northport in specific. We're a developing city. And I would like to be part of the development.

Great. Thank you.

My name is Lori Feil. I am on the Parks and Rec board. I have children that have pretty much grown up here in Northport. I've been in Northport Northport for nineteen years. I was the former coordinator for the drug free youth program, so I was involved in a lot of the things for the Parks and Rec. And it's a wonderful program that we have here in Northport. So it just kind of seemed natural to kind of fall into that spot.

Good evening. My name is Stefan Califf. I'm on the Environmental Advisory Board, and I serve as the liaison. I am also the Natural Resources manager with the city. I am glad to be a part of this board. I always learn something new, although I've been in this field for over fifteen yeah, a bit less than twenty years. So it's great to be a part of it. And yeah, glad to be here. Thank you all for coming.

Hi. I'm Trish Sturges. I'm the Assistant Director of Parks and Recreation. I feel this meeting is very important as well as I feel that the collaboration between both boards is very important. My philosophy has always been and we'll talk about years.

I hate to say anything, but more than thirty years I've been in Parks and Recreation. I'm going to stop at the 30 mark just because I need to. And this is the first place that I've actually worked that didn't have natural resources as part of our Parks team. It's separate. So this collaboration is really important because it's something that, as Parks and Recreation develops a master plan, if we're not thinking about urban planning like our forefathers in the city did not, we are going to lose parklands and conservation lands where they should be being built and grown together, where we can utilize them for purposes that are better than just a traditional grass yard park and a playground, there's a lot more that we have to offer.

And we want to build it that way moving forward.

My name is Dave Barrow. I'm a retired landscape architect, arborist, and planner. I work for Collier County, Lee County, Sarasota County, other places. And I'm on the Park Advisory Board.

Hi. Joan Morgan.

I'm on the Park Advisory Board. I've been in Northport for fifty three years, so I've known it since it was a baby. And you had to develop everything, okay? So I'm very proud of what we have. And yes, we've made a lot of mistakes in the past. And hopefully, we will make some better choices in the future.

Very good. My name is Tim Drum, Environmental Advisory Board. I'm an engineer. We've done probably the most residential designs here in the city of Northport. So I'd like to bring my expertise of knowing how engineering works and how to develop things and make it flow between different government agencies. I deal with state health departments, other municipalities on how things work. So I have a viewpoint of a couple of different angles I'd like to bring to the board and have power.

I'm Paul Jackalman. I am actually on both boards. I'm the chair of Parks and Rec. I joined it because of my daughter. She was in parks. She did a lot of stuff. I felt that it would be tough for me to start. And then I joined EAB because of the collaboration.

Casey McGowan. I'm retired. I've been here about four years as well. But I came on the board because of a great lot on the canal, and there's trees on the other side. And I'm thinking, yeah, I got to get involved in this. This is great. So yeah. Great. Thank you, everybody. Welcome. Item 252,233, discussion and possible action regarding environmental conservation easements of natural areas of city parks and city owned recreation property? Anybody have any thoughts on that?

I can do some introduction just to start with. Currently, Parks and Rec is in talks with the Big Waters Land Trust for the 60 acres adjacent to Warm Springs. There's some stumbling blocks we got. It's cost of maintenance. The conservation easement, if anybody hasn't heard, initial costs, they were going to do some maintenance for us.

And then when we got in front of commission, they decided that there wasn't going to be funding for that. Stephane and I will be working together in the next coming weeks to get an assessment done out there of what percentage of the property is invasive already. Because once we were to enter into that conservation easement, the city would be under obligation to keep it at that level. So if it's at 20, it can't go to 25, it can't go to 23. So there's concern with our commission over the value and cost that's going to have to go into that easement at that point.

So that's one piece of it. The other thing I will bring forward is that back in October '23, this board and its members did vote to bring some articles forward to the commission. And at that time, it was actually put in front of commission on 04/09/2004, where they were asking for consideration of conservation easements on these same lands. On 04/09/2024, it was carried over on consent between commissioners. But when it came back up on April 23, a motion was made by Commissioner McDowell to direct the city manager to provide an update memorandum to the Environmental Advisory Board and to look at these properties, and it failed.

So just so you're aware of that going in as you want to have any further conversation, I just wanted to make sure that I brought that to your attention.

Very

good. I don't think any of us were even here for that. Chuck, you may have been. Yeah. But in terms of original board members, I don't think so. Are there any other properties that we ought to be looking at?

So there is an annual inventory done of city owned properties. I mean, there's tiered ones that we've been looking at for many years on the Myakahatchee Creek area that have kind of been prioritized and then unprioritized and prioritized. And then that list of road and drainage for future parks land is something that is reviewed every year internally. But I don't believe that it's anything that's ever come fully in front of a Board would have to be requested if you would like to look at that.

Okay. So maybe under future business, we can add that.

I also wanted to mention, Chair, that the Natural Resources Division, we are working on our separate land acquisition list with potential properties that have been previously brought up by the Environmental Advisory Board. So we are currently working on sort of scoring each of those properties based on their environmental benefits starting from the quality of the habitat to potential benefits towards stormwater, drainage and some other potential value that acquiring these lots might bring. So this is something that we're currently working on, and we will be presenting our list in front of commission in the near future as

participate in the Sarasota County environmentally sensitive land nominations as well as neighborhood parkland nominations. Currently, process for my board is that if they identify a property that they would like to put on that, they make a motion, and then we move that forward to commission for recommendation to be placed on those lists of acquiring.

Sounds like a good process. Great. Any other thoughts?

So I'm just kind of curious. Will you guys then who I know Parks probably maintains a lot of the natural properties now or their Sarasota County does. Will that be So growth in your

there are some options that we're looking into. That's one challenge that always comes with acquiring relates management of these properties and how that be funded. There are some options that we're exploring, including potential partnership with local nonprofit organizations. As of right now, this is in work in progress.

And just to clarify, if it's deemed as park land, parks is responsible for maintenance. If it's considered undeveloped park land or road and drainage land or vacant lot and just city owned, then it could be a multitude of public works, road and drainage. It could come from anywhere that would be maintaining or, I may say, lack of maintaining.

Is the argument here is that a habitat even not maintained would in theory have better ecological function compared to a developed parcel?

I mean, I'm just curious if there'd be a land management plan like Conservation 2020 down in Lea County. There's a land management plan that's adopted and exotic removal and all that is then budgeted. But they went through voting in. The voters themselves voted in funding for a lot of that. Just curious. I'm just learning things.

One additive is this year, was a change to the tree fund. It is now the environmental fund, which has been one move better because it is less restrictive to the uses of those funds. Nice.

Help me understand how big does the property have to be to merit a conservation easement? Easement?

I don't think there's a limitation.

There's no limitation, yes.

Yeah, but you're not going to do it for 100 yards, 100 square yards worth of property.

It depends on the location and the function of that parcel. If the goal is to ensure that no development is to occur, then that would make sense.

Or it's an environmentally sensitive corridor that's linking something but parcel of land, it would absolutely qualify to the right trust.

Great. The inventory that you mentioned earlier, the city owned property inventory, does that include like location, size, all that? What's on that inventory list?

Yeah. It's basically a spreadsheet based on property appraiser's website of list parcel size. Now, content of environmental content of any species or type of anything would not necessarily be there.

Yeah, right. Wouldn't have had the survey done. Yeah. That makes sense. That's great. Anything else on conservation issues? Check? No? Okay. Okay. So I think the action item off of that at least for the EAB is we'd like to see a we'd like to review the property inventory. Good? Item two-five.

Sorry. If that is a staff directive, you do need a motion for that.

Motion.

All in favor?

Aye. It's unanimous. Just wanted to mention with this chair, there is the aspect of sensitive information where when you have those, the parcels, when you have these parcels that and someone may review this list and they may be aware of the interests of the city towards potentially acquiring one of the parcels on the list. This may adjust the value or the potential value of some of these properties. So just wanted to mention that as well.

Might I suggest?

Help me understand how we get there so that right? Let me tell you what the objective is. The objective is to look at all the properties that could potentially be available for conservation easement that are city owned, and we'd like to see them.

Okay. I would request from probably Natural Resources to review the list and bring forward back to your board if there are any potential properties that they see would qualify for a conservation easement. Does that make more sense

to you?

So would you be okay. So the interest would be for the properties that may potentially qualify for conservation easement?

Exactly. Okay.

Hang on. Sorry. This is my second meeting, so I'm a bit iffy on a few things. What's a conservation easement? Like, what is that?

Conservation easement, it's basically an agreement between the the owner of the property and state or local government entity that prevents the law or limits the development on this property.

So if, like, a private corporation were to open, like, a business on, like, environmental, like, sensitive land, you guys would be in charge to, like, restrict them from developing?

Or So let me help. Environmental sensitive lands that have certain qualities that we don't want any develop on development on, we might reach out to a trust company and put that into this agreement so that there wouldn't be any future development allowed at all. And they would support in that contractual agreement so that that is a protected source of land.

Okay. That makes sense.

And there's typically maintenance ports into it. Right? Who is responsible? Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes.

Sure. Right?

But one of the key factors is it also limits the owner's use. So once you're in that agreement, the city can't say now, well, I wanna pave it over and put a parking lot. Okay. So it protects it from doing even the owner cannot no longer do anything on that land Okay. Other than what's approved.

Yeah. And so the environmental advisory board are, like, the people that kinda, like, regulate that?

No. These the same as our board, this board makes recommendations to commission on what they feel the environmental prowess or most important things are for the city.

Okay. Thank you.

Good question.

I have a question for chair.

Would we be voting on these lots or just reviewing them and making suggestions?

I think ultimately, I think what we would do is we take a look at them. And if we all thought there were certain lots that would qualify that, we'd make the recommendation to commission.

And just in this attachment that was brought forward back in 2023, I want to say the Myakahatchee Creek Environmental Park is on there. Oaks Park is on there. The Greenway is on there. Tiers one, two, and three were all recommended for this. Any properties acquired by use of funds from the city's tree fund or for use by any department such as public works or parks and recreation.

So if it was classed as a park or classed as a road and drainage easement, to all be looked at. All properties currently owned by Northport Road and Drainage adjacent to the Myakahatchee Creek Environmental Park were already on there. So at this point, that would be where my suggestion, Stephane, could start with these, bring this board up to speed on what was already there, have a look and see if there's anything additional, and then bring that back as a presentation to the board for you guys to discuss. And really, you could just reiterate this once again back to commission would be

a good And we're actually narrowing down our list. And I wanted to mention that we've dedicated some time to conduct we cannot go on the lot. However, we can conduct a curbside inspection to assess the quality of the habitat. So that information will be brought up to the Board as soon as we have that list ready. And I wanted to mention that a large part of these parcels were exactly the ones that the Board brought up and has mentioned over the past few years from my understanding.

So each of these parcels have been evaluated.

New Okay. Set of commissioners, I think you got to keep beating the drum. Playing hard, never got to the dance.

Yeah. Yeah. What you said before, I was tracking note in the fact that some of these parcels that people know that we are actually going to be interested in them. The value is all of a sudden going to be raised on them. And I think that's happened in some situations. And that makes it tough for us to evaluate them, but yet not encourage other people to raise the prices on them. And another just a quick kind of when we're voting right now, is it both boards voting, or it can make motions, or just one? Just the environmental board?

I think it's just us because we're not

like a. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And If you have

a suggestion, we're open to it too. Right? I mean, if something you're just dying to get it out, let Jared

And the good to what Joan has mentioned, the good news is that you can still present all the needed information without too many specifics that points towards that exact one parcel. But you can still know the area where the parcel is. You can know the quality of the habitat and why this would be a good candidate towards that. So that would be a good potential middle ground because, really, someone may have intentions to Make

money.

Make money off of this and potentially Yeah. Alter the Yeah. The market value of a parcel, and we don't wanna go there.

Alright. Good. So we clear?

I think the Board has voted. And as soon as we have the lists and the environmental assessment on our end, that list will be presented in front of the

Board. Great. Any other thoughts on that topic? Thank you. Item C25-two 234, discussion and possible action regarding improved communication process between the EAB and the Parks and Rec Advisory Board related to mutually beneficial topics?

Cherry, if I

Improved may assumes there's been some.

So wanted to mention and perhaps there's more than Matt can add to this. But just to explain the way that the process works here is that each Board is a separate body and communication process cannot be really created. However, what can occur is potentially having a Board member from one of the Boards visiting the other Board's meetings. And in our case, we are, I must say, fortunate to have Paul being a member of both Boards. So this could be one potential way to conduct this communication.

From my understanding Why

can't there be a process and a process of communication between the boards? That seems

Only at meetings because of Sunshine Law.

Sunshine Law, you could request a report from the other board at certain meetings. If Paul wanted to, because he's at both, could format the same as we would if we went to the county and we sit on the county park and rec board. Basically, they would bring a report of what's happening at this board. And then the other thing at Parks and Rec, I could request once a month that he does an update on what's happening at this board. That would be the only thing I could see.

You agree, Matt? Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of how we communicate with the county board is that once we have a member who attends, they bring back a report and then they take our current information out. And that's basically just going over what was in our meeting minutes and answering any questions that might come up about them.

So each board would probably have to have an agenda item, say, report from Yeah. It would have to be

put on each No,

but that's why I did what I did. From the day that English came to our meeting and got this got the flow going today that I got on both boards. So

And, I mean, it's great right now that we have Paul. If something should change or Paul isn't going to be at a meeting, you can still appoint somebody else to do that type of a report. It would just be a matter of putting it on our agendas to say it's an EAB report. And on yours, it would be a PRAP report.

That makes sense. Any objections? Or do you want to discuss having that as an agenda item at future meetings to go through with Parks and Recreation?

If I also may add, as the Assistant Director of Parks and Recreation, you are welcome to invite me. And I will do my best to show up to any meeting and discuss where we're at with something. I've come to them before. And I have no problem doing that.

The information that has been shared by Trish is phenomenal. She's done a the book last year. Oh, yeah. Getting ready for CAPRA. Going over everything like that. She'll give you the information and what we wanna know. Great. Well, so

can I have a most do I need a motion to for to have something like that on

I have a motion to put communication on the board where we're going between the two

To add to the environmental advisory board a Park and Rec advisory board report monthly? Seconded. I got you, Paul.

Now just to

Thank you.

Just to summarize before this gets voted, this report usually would be written by the member who attends both boards or would be

It's going to come directly from the previous Park and Rec advisory board meeting. So the content is in there because you're gonna have to be very concise on what you're reporting. It can't just be, hey. We're talking about purchasing something. Yeah. If if it's an agenda, it has to be from our agenda. Yes. So Right. The report will come from whatever the previous agenda is to your meeting.

And in this case, would Paul generate the report?

Paul would Paul no. He'll just bring the minutes and speak to

them. Okay.

He doesn't have to do any written work. He would speak to the minutes on what the context was of on what was approved. If you had questions, you would need to like, beyond what he could answer at that point, you could, at that point, make a motion to request that I come in and further explain or anything like that.

Those are all available, too, on the city's website also, just for those of you

that may or may not know.

But this would give you a little bit better understanding of how we got to it, the information that was out there, how I explained it to them or how I brought them. A lot of times, I'll do a presentation for them so that they have a better understanding of what they're looking at. So you can always make a motion. It's gonna be on here as discussion and possible action on the park and rec advisory report. Minutes. However we wanna say it. How would you say it? Matt?

Alternate, yeah.

Perfect. We to flip

flop that back onto our board.

Yes. We'll bring it back. I'll get it on our agenda as a topic to discuss this month, and we'll throw it on to ours.

Good. We need to vote on that. Everybody in favor?

Did we get a second? Yes.

I did. I seconded it. Sorry.

No, you're good. Thank you.

Two ayes, three ayes. Aye. Aye. Do they have it? Excellent.

Item D25-two235, discussion of possible action regarding future city park plans and their potential community benefits.

Well, I guess that's me again.

You're popular.

I guess, today. Well, let me start with my Boca Chica because that is my next plan and that is my next park and it is my absolute favorite. And I can't wait for you all to be there at the grand opening of that this coming year. Obviously, we're in the middle of our master planning session right now. We've had six different community input sessions, Park and Rec Advisory Board, as well as public input just at the Morgan and the Mall and people coming in talking about future development, looking at the lands we already have, where we need to grow, looking at demographics, how we need to grow.

So it's really at its infancy. We did a lot of park mapping, system mapping that I did when I started this. You as most of you know, all of our parks are in a corridor here, which really kind of filters around Sumter Boulevard and comes out slightly. Yep. The most east park we have is off of Salford.

And there will be nothing from that point to all the way out to Atwater. So that's a huge gap. It is the intention of Parks and Recreation and where we are today that not only do we protect lands in every neighbourhood, but we make those lands in those neighbourhoods accessible for a child to be able to go to within a walking distance of their home, which usually means it's about a quarter of a mile that we need a plot of land. Boca Chica is one of these really great little parks that is kind of in behind off of Chamberlain, in behind some residential homes. And, you know, we took the community feedback from that park.

And when I walked back there the very first time, it felt like when I was a little kid and we used to go back in the woods and we used to build a fort. Whatever pieces of scrap wood that everybody could dig out of their dad's sheds and throw together, we did. So that's kind of what I'm building there. I'm building a quarter mile walking trail that will be permeable, fully permeable, flexi paved, and it will be only disturbed going in and out. And it will avoid all of the gopher tortoises that are in there.

They are building as they go. So we have this free form that's going to go all the way around there, giving the 25 foot barrier around everything that's in there. We are going to have interpretive signage to educate people on the natural foliage as well as the species and the homes that are there so that people can learn what they can plant at home, what's going to be this is a good shade area. It has a very small footprint for a parking lot. And then it has one small playground that looks very although it is up to code and new and all, it's not shiny and red and flashy.

It looks like an old log. It looks like an old tree fort. So it's going to feel very much nestled into a part of a community. And that's what we wanna see moving forward for every kid to be able to get to, something like that. It also will have a story walk like you see at the Garden Of 5 Senses. So along that trail, we can utilize that for environmental education on the native species and varieties that are located within that park.

That's awesome. Sounds amazing.

Yeah. Paul shared some of that with us last time. At the time before, too, we're all just like,

yeah, it looks really great. So that's kind of the

thing we're looking at. Definitely Yeah, do know

we're sorry. Go ahead. That's Okay.

We definitely do know that we have over 13,000 youth in this community, which is very unique to this coast. We know that comes with need for sports fields, needs for things that do take up land. So we're trying to use this type of, implementation to offset where we do need to put those things in for the kids to be able to be successful and have the amenities that they are using. We are so short on soccer fields. There was nineteen oh nine youth soccer players this season alone in Northport Youth Soccer.

So we're trying to balance that. The focus in the master plan was diversity of parks and the distribution of them youth sports because of the amount of sports we see and the demand we see. And in eco and environmental tourism were three of the big places that they're focusing on. So I would be happy as Park and Rec Assistant Director, not as the Park and Rec liaison, to come back when we get that master plan complete and do some educational factors on that for

you guys as well.

We'd love to see it. Do we have to make a motion for that?

No. No. I'll just add it to my list.

Great. Thanks. That's great. Any other thoughts or comments on that particular topic? We're planning through this. Okay. Discussion and possible action on micro forest planning initiatives and their potential benefits for park areas.

All right. Perhaps I can start on this, and then we'll see if Trish would have anything else to add or the Board members would like to discuss further.

Kind of like what a micro forest is for anybody that hasn't yeah.

That's exactly where what I was thinking So to for those of you who are not aware, a micro forest is a fairly well established concept in some areas and some cultures where plants are almost unnaturally planted at high density to stimulate that competition between them for sunlight, which in terms accelerates the rate of growth, where you can accomplish plant establishment rather quickly compared to if those are spaced out because of that competition for light and resources, where those plants are driven to outcompete their neighbors. Ultimately, that can lead to, as mentioned, establishing a area that's quite dense densely vegetated, functioning as a forested area in a shorter amount of time compared to what you would have accomplished if those were spaced out further from

the show.

That's that's exactly the

That's a big deal.

Yeah. That's exactly the claim. Now I wanted to mention that this method, it's called Miyagi Miya. I don't remember the, actually, term right now, but the gentleman who pioneered it, he focused on conditioning the soil where a thick layer of mulch is applied as well as potentially an impermeable layer such as cardboard, which drops down the temperature of the soil and conditions it where the soil nutrients and microcultures from that rapid growth. And then after that soil conditioning period, the planting at high density follows of different, preferably native species of tree and understory and brush.

And then the result is a rapidly growing micro forest. I wanted to mention that the positive is that quick establishment. However, the downside usually is associated with costs. So if this technique is to be used for small area, it's highly effective. However, if let's say someone wants to plant a couple of trees and understory species further spaced apart, the cost of that will be far less than what would it be if the micro forest techniques used.

So

So give us a sense of what those numbers are.

The as far as costs right now, I don't have any specifics, Chair. However, I would say you need to plant the densities five times or greater than what you would plant otherwise, which tells me that the cost for the landscaping, for purchasing those plants would be close to 5x or greater to rewild an area. But you have

the benefit for what, an additional thirty or forty years?

And that's

At least.

And it's a it's a point of debate. A point of having that conversation, but I wanted to specify specify that there are pros and cons to So the this in other places, this is used to rewild fairly small areas. I have not seen this method used for a larger area for that reason. And we are currently working with our urban forester and our parks and rec team to potentially plant three areas at the Garden Of 5 Senses, where one area would fully implement this method, a second area would partially implement this method and the third area would be just regular standard practices of planting. And we want to compare start And with question.

With the

No one has done a test plotting where some micro forests have been done, none have been completed on public lands fully, and no such test plots have been done in this part of the state as far as I'm aware.

Excellent.

What would be the size of these?

Something similar to 30 by 30 feet for each test ball.

That's something I like to mention. Some of the downsides I could see possibly with this method. What you've talked about doing to the soil makes it much more unstable for root systems. When winds come, I bet you they're more likely to fall. Also with growing the trees faster, they're probably not as strong either, so more likely to break. So from structural engineering perspective, I would say it's not a good idea, probably why it's not been done too much here in Southwest Florida with the hurricane winds. So just something to throw out there.

It's a great point. I just wanted to mention that upon the mulching and conditioning of the soil, usually a type of boring needs to occur to plant the species, but it's a great point. Just wanted to mention that on the other hand, when you have multiple species of plants at different especially at different height, From my experience, I've seen that when you have, let's say, understory and then medium sized and taller sized trees, they sort of absorb that wind impact amongst them. So but that's a great point. And that's the part why this test plot is so exciting to me personally.

That's awesome. So when are you going to when does the execution of this start, right? Because that's something that I think we're going to want on our agenda every month that, right, let's talk through how it's coming, what's it look like?

There are a few more aspects that we need to take into account before we can commence with the planting. I do foresee spring or early spring next year.

The Arb

Arbors isn't wasn't built in the day.

On a

That's just called Milwaukee?

Yes. Yeah. That's what

But when he was here doing his presentation, he mentioned supporting the trees for the first two or three years. You have to actively support their structures.

And then in about ten years, they pop up. So I I forget that his name was doctor something. I don't

Yeah. The yeah. The that name also escapes me right now, but he saying that. His guidance will definitely be, seat as part of this planting method because he's quite familiar and he's a local expert.

I can tell you from an engineering standpoint, they've been growing trees faster and that's been reducing the strength of the trees considerably. That's why I went around here now a day, go to Home Depot, get that lumber, it's not nearly as good or strong. It's been reduced by about a third to 20 about 30% of the strength.

It's big number.

Yeah. So, I'm I'm all for making things better. But you can't make something grow faster and stronger. It doesn't

Well, don't think it's done for lumber. It's meant as an environmental protection to help bring back natives because the birds will eat the seeds and spread the

No. It has its places, but I wouldn't have it away from dense areas or where the high population is because But

it's Abilnorth, they use it in, like, degraded land

Correct.

Yeah. To help replenish the soil and

Understand the process of success.

A question with this micro force planting. Right? Like, let's say we grow those trees and they're, like, a third, like, weaker than, like, normal grown trees, right, where we're simulating tree growth. And let's say these trees germinate, does that mean, like, when they grow back, they're gonna be as strong as regular trees, or are they gonna follow, like like, having, like, weak roots or bark or whatever.

You need a biologist.

Well, I would imagine since then.

It depends where they germinate. Exactly. Their strength is, I mean, coded in their DNA. So if they germinate somewhere where they will not compete with immediately with many more other plants where they need to grow fast, they will have that regular strength. But as Tim mentioned, if something grows faster, perhaps, yes, the strength will not be the same.

There's plenty of literature online and I wish that I had more time to read more. But from what I've done as far as research, it seems that there are many benefits and there are many success stories. I know that usually people post about these success stories and there's still limited data for this area. That's why I think that it's important to find out more about this method because there's the potential.

But are

many in the approach.

Why parks and natural resources are doing our due diligence before we ask for five times the money to do it. This test plot will really help us understand where it is implementable and where it isn't. And it is part of a grander scheme planting for parks. We, in parks, lost a number of trees during E in. So the arborist is working with a plan with us right now. We have I can't even tell you the full count. There's over 25 to 30 trees per park on the list right now that he's in the process of replanting. So this is part of that whole implementation of the tree planting for this planned fiscal year.

I think the test plot's a great way to go about it.

Yeah. Had a question

of how long is this

test going to last. I mean, because you're talking about strength and hurricane and all this kind of stuff. Are we talking about a three year study? Are we talking about a one year study? I mean, are we talking about time wise? Because I think time is a huge factor.

Right. Well, those are those will be permanent areas where natives will establish themselves one way or another, whether in the micro forest test plot or the regular one. And this is something that will be ongoing. But I know that even starting that year one, we might be able to tell to get some clues about the potential strength and rate of growth and overall success. Because like I said, on the Internet, there are plenty of success stories and many people are swearing their lives by this method.

But for this region, it may not be practical.

So we're going to compare apples to apples. Right? We're going to see that tree in this and this and this in So that same

the other thing you have to solve is how long is enough to determine whether or not it merits asking for money and budget. Because at the end of the day, that's your world is.

Is. It's the length of time.

I mean, that's going to be respective. We'll see how it's growing. It might be something you can see fairly early on a substantial difference, maybe not.

Some as part of some documentary that I recently watched in The Netherlands, they've done such scenario and they had incredible results starting year one. And they didn't really talk about the strength of the trees. But as far as height and overall appearance of the forest, it looked like a five to ten year forest was established in one year. So it's something that's quite incredible, but we'll find out more.

100%. So you've got you're measure the vegetation, right? 100% that's the thing that's right in front of you. What other things are you thinking about measuring that are going to help you sell it if it does well? Mean, at some level, should be a customer satisfaction piece of this. Right? The park goers, do they like this? Right?

I think if it seeds itself, if it's healthy, give it a chance.

It doesn't

need to be most beautiful thing.

All I'm saying is that I think you gotta think through if because really, the thing is is how am I gonna pitch this if it goes well, right, to to your bosses and the commission, right, the budget. So it's not just the vegetation. It's what are the other benefits? Think Somebody's going to ask you that along the way, I would imagine.

I certainly Well,

one of

the things Garden of Five Census has a people counter on it. A very really quick way to show is if this forested area starts to increase because of level of shade or anything else starts to increase my attendance at the park, we can justify that. Quick counter numbers, it's easy to see where it goes up. It's easy to see as those numbers come in monthly.

Ultimately I'm not saying we're going to

solve this here, right? I'm saying that I'd be thinking about that between now and the spring, right, when you're getting ready to plant this thing. Once it's out, let's figure out, right, what do we need to be measuring?

We would like to have it as a tool in our toolbox. Understanding how a micro forest gets established, there may be some scenarios where that could be very beneficial. And in others, it certainly won't work. Like I said, for larger areas, it's so cost prohibitive that it it doesn't make sense. However, for small ones doctor Charles, by the way, that's the that's the name. So I met with the doctor a couple of times, and he actually recommended it for small areas only. For larger ones, it's impractical. However, it's good to have it as a tool in our toolbox. I

have a question. So I mean, I'm all for planting trees. I would plant trees everywhere. But just kind of playing devil's advocate. With that much density, what is the fire risk for something like that?

That's a good question. From what I've seen elsewhere, because this vegetation is competing and it's growing, it creates a dense habitat. However, it's not a dry it's not really a dry material. That's one thing. The other, without me being an expert here, certainly, this would only be practical for certain areas.

I would not, as Tim mentioned, close to right next to residential homes that may not be a good place. It's a great question.

Yes. Because my thought is that even if it's not next to homes, fire jumps. So if it's next to another area of woods, is that going to threaten more acreage?

I have a question. Does the city remove any invasives at all, like the Brazilian pepper tree, or are they just allowed to do their thing?

Because I'm thinking that

it would help replace the invasives, okay, like a small forest. Like, if we found a swath of land that was filled with pepper trees and just yanked them out and tried a forest there, it would get rid of the trees. I mean, the the peppers. And that would you know? But I'm not sure what the criteria is for planting. So but

I don't know. I'm just thinking of it used

to be you you we could argue that, look, hey. These will get rid of some of the invasive species. We could replace them with this or try that.

That's another benefit from what I've heard about this method is that the natives are growing so densely and so quickly, at least that's what some of the resources are saying is that, that really prevents invasives from taking over.

Got a lot of beauty berries.

Is that going to be the case?

I'm not I'll tell you one example that they did. The Army Corps of Air Engineering came in. Bunderson brought them in when we were having the paddle palooza years ago, and they took out the Brazilian peppers along the cocoa plumb. I don't know if they have permission to do that or not because they did it in two weeks. It was amazing. But Bunderson can do things that the rest of us can't do. And they came in, they did that. And it's kind of like if they can do it there and it made a huge difference along that Coco Plum, it was just unbelievable difference on the way that looked. And if they can do it there, I mean, an example for some

other places.

That's a really good thought, though, is replenishing the banks of our creeks and rivers.

That's the only time that I know that it was done in Northport.

Yeah. Do we have an idea of what type of natives? Because I know that plays a lot into the role because I know, like, folks, they have, like, really shallow roots and more susceptible to falling down during strong hurricanes. Like Ian, I lived in my apartment. The great big oats used to climb on just crashed down and some into the houses and everything. So do we know what type of natives are we planting?

That's where the expertise of people like Doctor. Charles will really come in handy. He provided some contacts for me as well of some folks who have experience with the plant selection for this method. I don't have any specifics yet, but I don't think that Oaks will be part of it. Perhaps more of a myrtle, holly type of trees and then they will be mixed with more underbrush species.

Right. So test starts in the spring, maybe between now and then if you think there's anything relevant in terms of species selection or anything that's going on, you just slip it into the agenda, give us

a quick update, that'd be great. Isn't spring sort

of a picky time to plant here? I thought it was more fall.

I mean, I am no expert, but I'm just envisioning planting these trees and get burnt to a crisp in June.

I know whenever we're planting our garden, I

was gonna

say It's usually

best to print plant right before the wet season unless you're going to go ahead and contract watering. Right?

If you

have the city as a water truck.

Well, we have water in October. Well,

a new plan thing requires

Yeah.

A lot

monitoring right away anyway.

I don't know.

So one benefit of this method is because of the thick mulch and the cardboard that really drops the temperature of the soil and kind of locks in that moisture. But from from what I've seen, yes, perhaps before the rainy season would be the best time.

So anyway, right, as you go along through the process, keep us up to date.

Will do. Good.

Anything else on the micro forest topic? I agree to put that. Item F25-two 237, discussion and possible action on flooding susceptibility in park areas.

I don't know whose item it was. I think overall in the city, we have a lot of water retention issues. Some of the biggest challenges for us during Iain was Warmineral Springs. That floodplain was completely changed, which is why the building is now being renovated as a flood proof building, and it's going to be a wet flood proof building, which means I allow the water to come and I allow the water to go out. Other than that, we really didn't didn't suffer a lot of challenges with flooding in parks, even some of the biggest water events we've had.

So I I I'd be happy to answer any questions on it, but I'm not sure what the exact questions are.

I don't recall what we talked about there.

I recall that there some thoughts discussed between the Board regarding potential concerns of some of the parks flooding significantly, but I don't recall any specifics either, perhaps partially about Mahakahatchee.

Mahakahatchee. Yeah. So of course, Mahakahatchee is going to have to always be maintained. It is a it is a natural watershed. It's gonna be what it is. We have to be smart about building and what we do around them and making sure that we let that water take its course through, just like at Warm Mineral Springs. Water's It's gonna come in. And how do we do it? If I had my way, maybe those buildings would have come down and gone 16 feet in the air with one small one. Just just joking.

Instead, I have my environmental board, and I love you guys. But I have a historical group that really love those buildings, and they need those buildings to stay intact the way they are. So my job is to make sure we fit and mold. I I call it the the Play Doh master. That's my job. Mold. All of those things, you get the best outcome for every one of them. Warm Mineral Springs specifically has seven individual very passionate user groups. The environmental group is one big, huge one. The Legacy Trail people are another big, huge one.

The water conservationists, the people who believe that that water is the end of the world. The historical people who want those buildings and feel that that is the best jewel that we have in Northport is what those buildings are. And then you have another whole user group, which is another whole section in Northport that says, I don't care. It's a hole in the ground. What you do with it? So I kinda keep all those things juggling and make sure we get them the best of the best. Really, if I felt that we had some flooding susceptibility in certain areas, the Myakahatchee Corridor is going to be what it is. We're going to stay away from it. We're going to keep it natural. We're going to take care of it the best we can with good stewardship. And that's all we

can do. I

have a report today. We did the Myakahatchee environmental. We did the white, the red, and the yellow trail. And I'll tell

you what. Do you like my new observation deck?

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'll tell you what. Well, the bathroom, what's

happening with the bathroom there? It's on its way. Okay. Okay. It's on its way.

But I will tell you that we were expecting that we'd be kinda flooded in places. It it you know, our our shoes were dirty. Mhmm. But, no, it's still it wasn't bad at all. It was great.

Yeah. So we just replaced the observation deck out there. Mhmm. And the bathroom is on its way. The contractor ordered the wrong prefab bathroom. So it had to go back because it's the wrong one. Yeah. But it is coming soon. A very nice place to visit. And, yes, I was very happy. Some of the clearing, natural resources was out there doing some work out there too.

Oh, yeah. You could

see the good.

Yeah.

Really good.

And I tell you what, it is what I love about that and all the Greenway Trail and all of these, everything we're doing, it's the variety of people there, the very young to the very old, okay, to people with walkers and canes and dogs and little kids. And it's really great. I mean, you know, we need all these people.

It's a beautiful park.

I'll I'll defer to my engineer over here. But, you know, if if if you can get funding for a park that's just a passive park that's going to help with flood control absorb some of that extra runoff as more development happens. And if you can get the funding from somewhere else, it's just a wonderful way to look at it. One way to look at that.

What's that design for flooding? A whole other topic, probably not for this board.

Greg? I don't know if there's any motions out of that unless anybody else has any thoughts. I think the idea there is just keep each other informed, which we've sort of discussed about having a dual member committee.

I think it's beneficial. I feel tonight was beneficial on my side, as I hope you guys got something from our side. I think that it is important because this goes hand in hand. And I'm sure Paul will keep us in the loop on both sides. And again, I just reiterate, if there's something you'd like, have them put on an agenda, they will reach out to me, and I will bring you whenever I can.

We appreciate that very much.

And if I may add vice versa, I am available as well. We have a lot going on with the natural resources division. So we are on the development development service side of things. But I can also provide some information from that perspective or as a liaison with the EAB.

Awesome. We still have a couple of agenda items. You're welcome to stay if you want, but it's it's not hard. So do whatever you like. We appreciate you coming. You for time. We're on future agenda

So chair, just wanted to mention that for the future agenda items part, the future agenda items part, as far as I understand it, this would be for the joint meeting. So this is

Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. So this would be different than the regular meeting that we'll usually hold?

I don't think so. This is our meeting. This part of it was just a part of the agenda. The parks are direct piece.

Think either way, it's going to go on a future EAV agenda. I mean, they want to add something about

the Yeah.

I'm going to review those motions.

I don't know. You. Thank you.

Okay. That was great. So future agenda items. Jim, anything you'd like to see on upcoming agenda?

We did are we cleaning up the roster of the board here at least? Is that getting done? Find out which board members are off and on. We need more.

When will we see that?

So the numbers that are here, this is it.

This is our roster.

This is your roster.

As of today, this is our roster.

Nobody We don't have let me double check.

We don't have any current emerald options, I think. But if we do, then those usually take Not too long. Right, not too long to process those. But right now, we don't have any current applications. So this is the board.

So we're in a quorum.

Yeah, you're in a full quorum. All members present.

So how many members actually have to be present to make

a call? Three.

Three. Well, that's good.

We need a new vice chair.

Yep. This

will be an item for the latest regular meeting.

I'm going to add that with the agenda.

Jim's first. Right? So Okay. This is our thing. Did you have any other you're not limited to one.

Yeah. Just making sure I understand what the board did last week. It's under their prior award. So how much leeway do we have? Because I know the environmental board, you guys are funded through the trees.

Correct? Through the Environmental Protection Fund former tree fund.

Yeah. Correct. Is there a way because I know the commissioners have to vote on that. Is there any way we can take a look at that and see if that can get changed?

So this would be this could be a topic for a future agenda item. The team you can propose. Make

a motion or no?

No. Future agenda item. All

right. So do we have that?

So I can include that as part of potentially likely the next meeting.

Good. Paul?

At this point in time, I've got my hands full. I don't want to add any more to it.

Jessica, anything you'd like to see on the next agenda?

I have no idea. I'm absorbing too much information for parks right now. Great. Well, not really. I have. It's good to get a different outlook on things.

David? Not currently at moment. The

I want to see where we are with the scorecard. Scorecard,

we're making progress. I'm hoping that by next meeting, I'm going to be able to present you the scorecard.

That's my numbers.

With the parameters. Yeah.

With numbers? Yeah.

Is that in regards to what we were discussing earlier or is that another item?

Another item. Over a year ago, we booked for commission and they agreed, we want to see an environmental scorecard. So when you go to your doctor, right, they take any number of measurements. And my first day on the board, I asked, what's our environmental health? And nobody could answer that.

Great question. Stuff I brought up to the arborist. Sorry. I won't make it a secret. Tree funds, it's a tax. I asked Ryan Piper if there was any environmental studies done that said that Northport is in a deficit, that we need all these trees. Not saying that we need to cut everything down. But Northport is the only government that tax the citizens the way they do. And it's asinine and I think criminal, to be honest. So that needs to be addressed. If this is the board to do it in, let them hear.

Good. So the scorecard, right? We want to be able to say how we do it. It's not just trees, right? It's everything that's in the charter.

Well, we could get an air monitor up. Is that right? I think that was something we actually accomplished.

So this thing's been going on. I'm sorry. This thing was approved well over a year ago. We're not talking about reinventing the wheel here. This is an aggregation of data. I want to see action on this thing, Period. So it's great. It's on the next agenda.

Like I said, we're making progress. That's one of the many projects that we're working on. And as soon as we have that ready, we'll present it to the Board. At this point, commission has confirmed and directed us to move forward with it. So the scorecard is happening. There's no debate about it. It's we're making Why would we do debate

if it was approved over a year ago?

Yeah. Like I said, there there's no debate about it. Oh, okay. It's Just a time frame. It's work in progress. Just wanted to remind you, chair, that the board the board members can only make the recommendations, but cannot make any city staff employees conduct work. So this is something that we're working on. And as soon as we have it, you will be the first ones to know with the numbers and the data.

Excellent.

But we can make a motion to go to the commissioners office, and on it. Correct? And

then the the commission company will to would will be

informative having parks that. Here. And somebody then refresh my memory in case we did this already, but is there a way to fold in the county end of things into a joint meeting, or is that too much to ask? I mean, it definitely takes a lot of resources, and they're scattered around.

Know? We had that was in reference to that, we have a parks one where we said we it's an open position at the moment where we set one person from the city parks board goes to the county parks and rec board and then reports.

Just like

I'm gonna be doing the

two. Okay.

It's our that's our communication. Right now, it's an open position.

I have But don't know what

at environmental board with the with the county. Yeah.

Do you wanna put it on the agenda and not have it on the next all we're doing is deciding whether we wanna have some on the next agenda.

Yeah. We're doing future agenda items. So

Yeah. I I would like to have a discussion about it

Okay.

If it would be feasible for us, if somebody here would want to do that.

I'm sorry to do what?

See if one of our board members can go up to

the county boards. It is fine.

Now, but their minutes are online too, Right?

I can't imagine that they're not.

They should be. They should be. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe we could well, barring a volunteer who can't go up there, maybe we can talk about getting their minutes to our

Or we could put something on the agenda that says if anybody wants to have seen something on the Sarasota County minutes that they'd like to discuss, that's the time to do it.

Okay. Not that that goes on in Sarasota, but

how to fix us down here.

Right. Then if it's a big enough deal for somebody and they wanna bring it in, hallelujah. Right. Okay. Let's try it that way. Thank you. So the deal is, right, if if you wanna look at the Sarasota County environmental board or any other boards for that matter, minutes that are online and you think it makes sense to bring it up here, let's do that.

Oh, yeah. Because they do things like, know, oh, we're

not gonna support my ACCA anymore.

You're gonna do it. You know, they offset stuff to us. So I think it'd be nice to have a little bit of warning when they make these drastic changes to upkeep, especially maintenance and upkeep.

Yeah, right. Good on that? Yes. Any other future agenda items while we were No? Good. Public comment. Is none. Adjerned?

Thanks for coming, everybody. Appreciate it.

You wouldn't want me to make up.

Oh, yes. I do.