Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

No idea. Well, he the mayor asked me to do it when I came to that city council meeting. I was like, "Oh man, I want to do this again." You have this giant thick really nice. It's not always that dinosaur book. All these pictures. Whenever you're ready,

Michelle. like to welcome everyone to the uh Riverdale City Planning Commission meeting for Tuesday, February 24th, 2026. All uh commissioners are in attendance. And again, we'd like to um officially um welcome um Melissa Kerry as our new uh commissioner. Welcome. uh happy to have you with us. Um we um I I also would like to welcome those who are here um as members uh as visitors I guess we could say and um u really appreciate you taking your time to be with us tonight. Um I believe that you are here uh regarding the um the subdivision. Is that correct? That's correct.

Okay. Uh so um we don't have any public here then for public comments right now I don't believe. Um so we'll move on to item C presentation reports. Mr. Cooper, do you want to do the bring in first or you want me to go first? Um it doesn't matter. We can do uh we Here we can do the swearing in first. We have two Can we just stand up? Then raise your right hand. I state your name. I do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support and defend that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America

Constitution of the United States of America and the state of Utah and the state of Utah against all enemies foreign and domestic against all enemies foreign and domestic and that I will discharge my duties with fidelity. I will discharge my duties with fidelity. And now you are official.

Okay. Right over here. Sorry. Community development update, Mr. Cooper.

Yes, sir. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, in the last couple of weeks, we've uh had a few new applications uh for our conditional use permits. Our conditional use permits are dealt with in in two ways. If it's a new building, new construction, um not an existing building, then those actually come to the planning commission for approval. If someone applies for a conditional use permit within um an existing building, then that's just an administrative review. So, we've re we've received two administrative review permit requests. One for overland tuning. That's at 760 West River Park Drive, right behind um uh Safelight in that building there. And they do autotuning for um major brands like Toyota and things like that. And uh we've received a conditional use permit for a uh company that does window and blind cleaning and installation at 1393 West, 5175 South. Uh that's just off of 1500, those commercial buildings with the rollup doors uh that seem to have a lot of different tenants in there. Uh so those are um two new businesses that we welcome to the city. Um, tonight we'll be discussing uh discussing a um public hearing a date, but I did want to mention to you that we have been working with that applicant uh CarMax for um for a new used car dealership there on the site uh where um Leslie's used to be. Uh so that's um been progressing to the point where they've requested the reszone. So we'll discuss that later on. Um the FC AFCU campus is progressing. What you see on the hillside of course is the five-story building and also now you're starting to see the parking structure uh pop up. Uh so that's making progress um from the from the RDA's perspective we are

working with them on an agreement for uh some incentive for infrastructure. So, if you recall, we established, well, we we uh amended and extended the Westbench redevelopment agency area, and uh that gives us the ability to then negotiate with AFCU for some help with the infrastructure that's there for the whole Westbench area. So, that's progressing nicely. Um you all, well, a lot of you participated in the sheret for Stringtown. So, you asked about that and um we've been making some progress with our consultant and with the stakeholder team on Stringtown. We will hopefully have a presentation back to you as the commission uh in March. It was supposed to happen. We were hoping in February, but we've added a few things. So, we'll loop you back into that discussion in March, and you'll get to kind of see hopefully some of the comments that some of you were able to make in the sharet. You guys will see it for the first time. Stringtown is is a big master plan development that we're looking at just right behind us here um along the Weber River. It's about 300 acres. Um we do have an application uh or we're working on the pre-application of the Riverside Flat Town Homes. So, uh, on 4400 right across Leslie's, if you recall, that was, um, approved for an apartment building and across the street was an was approved for a smaller apartment building. Um, they're working now on a on a town home site plan for that. And we're kind of going through some of the uh, concepts with them on a pre-application basis before they formally submit. So, that'll come to you uh, pretty soon. I think they just emailed me yesterday and said that they're ready to make formal application. And then we're also working with Mr. Brent,

sorry. Yeah. That where the Lesie mobile home is across the street to the north to Yeah. On the north side of 4400 where that little house built burnt down that was there. Oh, right at the roundabout. Yeah. So, there's two empty lots. The big one and then the small one across the street. The big one is the topic of tonight's um discussion on item uh three under action items, but the one across the street, we've been working with the property owner one where it butts up against the roundabout. That's right.

Yep. And then Mr. Brent Hill has been uh working with us on a pre-application basis uh for a proposed seven lot town home subdivision at 313 West, 4,400 South up on top um off of 300 West just ab budding um the terrace right on the property um on the city boundary there. He owns some property and he's been working for a while trying to get us a little project to go there. So, we're working with him. Um I mentioned in the work session that uh we're progressing on our Title 10 updates. So Mr. um Mike Hansen will be here tonight and he'll walk us through the um the items that we discussed last time about the potential of implementing neighborhood plans in inside of our code and inside of our general plan. Uh if you recall in the last couple of meetings, you all approved um or made a a motion to recommend approval to the city council amendments to um our chapter 22. So uh title 10 chapter 22 for the PRUD code. Uh remember we we um talked about amending that from PRUD to plan development and then creating some more flexibility there. So, that's been on the council's agenda for a number of um meetings now. We had a work session, so they actually had an extra meeting in February to discuss that and uh it'll be back on their on their agenda next week for review. So, that has not been finals finalized yet. And then last but not least, um we if you recall, um the the city approved years ago the Peacock Ridge subdivision. and it was an 8ome subdivision off of I think 1,200. Um Kent Hill was the applicant and it was just a small eight lot subdivision right on the hillside. Um the city council decided to purchase that land from him

in 2024 I think maybe five, I can't remember. Anyway, Riverdale City owns that land now. And so we've been working on vacating that eight lot subdivision, making it a two lot subdivision, and then selling the remainder land to the canal company to be an easement for the canal. Um, so we're finally, I think, close to getting down to that subdivision plat. So you'll see that uh come to you as well pretty soon. Now, where's that one located? Help me. Uh, I don't know the cross streets, 1200 West. Um, right at the end of the culde-sac there. up by the water tanks. Yeah, just um east of the water tanks

around the corner past the church all the way to the dead end. That's right. There was a peacock house. There was peacocks when I was Oh, okay. Yeah, it's it's literally the hillside. There's an old house that burnt down, I think, or um and it's not there anymore. So, yeah, it was approved and it wasn't that great. So, we purchased it and now we're trying to uh get a couple of residential lots out of it, but mainly for um you know, protecting the canal. The canal company's very interested in it.

Thank you, Mr. Cooper. Um we'll move on to item B, consent items, consideration of meeting minutes from January 13, 2026. Hopefully, you've all had an opportunity to look at those. Are there any uh changes or amendments that need to be made to those? And a uh motion is in order. Forward. A motion to approve the meeting minutes from January 13, 2026 regular planning commission meeting. Second. Second. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? Yes.

Any opposed? Okay, that passes unanimously. Uh, item E, action items. Uh, number one, commission consideration, nomination, and voting to select planning commission chair and if necessary, vice chair. Um, so we'll now open up the um um do we need a motion to open it? Okay. We'll now open um up for um uh nominations for the for the chairman of the planning commission. I recommend Rick for the chair. I second that.

All right. Uh we have a uh one nomination and a second. Uh are there any other nominations for chair? Okay. Then uh we will uh vote on the nomination that we have for chairman u for me to be the chair. Uh discussion on the motion. Pardon me. Do you want it? Uh do I want it? Yeah. Um I I will serve if I'm asked to serve. Let me put it that way. All in favor? Yes. Yes.

Any opposed? Okay. Um and then for vice chair, uh we need a motion uh for a vice chair. So, we'll open up um for motions for vice chair. A motion for Colleen. I'll second that. I'll third it. New trend. I like the trend. It works. Any other motions to be considered? All right, then we will um have a a vote on that. Uh all those in favor of u Colleen as vice chair? Yes. Any opposed? Okay. So, we have our chair and our vice chair.

Um you uh willing to serve as vice chair? I think it's too late now. Yes. No. It's fine. Okay. Um then we'll move on to um item number two, consideration of final subdivision plat and site plan application for River Park Retail location at 4868 South 1050 West as requested by Steuart Land Company. Uh Mr. Cooper,

thank you very much. Uh I appreciate it and great job on the vice chair chair uh nomination. You did you did great. Okay, as uh mentioned um this discussion is uh for the um consideration of the river park retail final subdivision plat and a site plan. As I mentioned uh in the packet and in the work session, uh this is a recommendation to the city council for both. They are the land use authority for both uh site plans and commercial subdivisions. And so um tonight's discussion is just um what recommendation you want to forward to the to the council. Uh we have with us um Jason Thompson with AWA. He will uh be speaking on behalf of the applicant. We also have Seth here um from uh Steuart Land and uh they'll be available to answer any of your questions. Um but before I get started with my presentation, why don't we ask Jason to step up to the microphone just briefly introduce yourself, the team, and the project and and uh give us uh some details that way, please.

So as you mentioned, my Would you go ahead state your name and the city of your residence, please?

So, Jason Thompson. I'm with AWA, the engineer on the project, and I'm from South Weieber. So, spend a lot of time driving through Riverdale. Love it here. Um, and uh, yeah, we've been we've teamed up with uh, Steuart Land. They hired us to help them out with the civil engineering and the surveying on the project. And basically what it consists of is a a three lot subdivision. Um, part of it is is from an existing lot that's on the east side of of Jo-Ann's. So, it we're we're amending part of that by taking the lot the portion that's north of the east west road that's on the north side of Jo-Ann's, the former Jo-Ann's property. And the the the land to that's to the north of that access road is going to be divided into three lots. There'll be three different pads. The first pad that's going to be constructed uh we refer to as pad A and it's got a fourunit uh retail building on that with one drive-thru, well actually two drive-throughs for restaurants. And then the center two units will be used for other retail type of a use. And then the future pads, pad B, which is the southwest corner nearest to 1050 West, that's going to be a restaurant with the drive-thru. And then the remaining pad, pad C on the back side, that's planned to be a future um tire shop type of a place. So think of, you know, Bert Brothers, Lewab, that type of a a business what we're anticipating there. So with this proposal, we're we'll be creating three lots on that land. Uh developing pad A first and then as as market demands, then the next two pads will come online. And so we're we're basically getting the infrastructure in place um for those pads so that basically when pads B and C are ready to go that they've got the

utilities and and so on there and they basically just need to uh complete the improvements for their their portion with parking and and the building. Any questions from businesses already planned to go into PD A? We have two right now. Uh, one's Beans and Brews and the other one's Tropic uh, it's a smoothie shop. I can't remember the last name of it. Tropical Smoothie. Tropical Tropical Smoothie. Oh, a food place. You're you're welcome to step up here as well if you'd like.

Sorry. Um then state your name and your place of residence, please. Sure. Uh my name is Seth Vining. Uh I currently reside in Plane City, Utah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Go ahead. Anybody else questions? How soon do you see pad B and C being occupied? that uh I would say within the next I mean as soon as possible. Um I say within the next year to two years. We discussed this down in our other meeting, but just confirm that there's a going to be a way to connect right into the parking lot of Sam's. Is that right? Correct.

Yeah. If you notice, we have two forms of access. If you come off 1050 there at the bottom, it comes up and and into this and then up in the norththeast corner there. It'll go into the parking lot. And the existing party parking lot goes right up to the property line already. There's no curb and gutter there. So, it's obviously planned on that connecting eventually. So, Okay. Mr. Cooper, did you have anything that you wanted to uh present?

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so thank you, gentlemen. Um we might call you back up for other questions. That was a good overview that uh takes um a lot from uh from what I was going to say. Um so as I mentioned this is uh kind of a combination of two parcels. So the orange box there um is comprised of the existing parcel and a portion of the of the lower bigger parcel. Um it's in the RCP zone. So that's the retail commercial park. As I mentioned before, this is a zone that's meant to create a unified development scheme that has the ability to develop over time. Um, and so I've listed the objectives there. Uh, we won't cover all of them, but mainly this is meant for a mix of retail and commercial uses um to provide a a range of services and it's meant to be um urban in character. So urban is more dense um uh buildings fronting streets um connectivity, open space, things like that. Um in in a way that that um creates a a retail commercial center. And so the RCP is bigger than just this lot that we're talking about or this subdivision. It spans all the way up to Walmart and to Home Depot, Sam's and that whole area. And so it was established a while back and me was meant to be developed under a single development agreement that guided future development. Um, right now we're looking at this through the eyes of the review to figure out how it might be compatible with the overall development, how it might connect, as you've mentioned, making sure that we have those vehicular and pedestrian connections, how the um visual attractiveness is in harmony with other buildings that are there. So, those are all kind of the objectives

that we uh looked at as we went through our review here. Some of the things that you'll want to consider tonight are listed here and and it's really the things that we look at as we go through our plan review. Um and so you're looking for compliance with adopted objective standards that are in our code. So, um, under our PLA site plan compliance review, we looked at lot configuration, dimensions and area, how it's laid out, how it, um, is, uh, connected and oriented to the streets, what's on the plat in terms of relative notes and things like that. Um, do the subdivision, uh, standards, um, meet minimum lot sizes and widths, are the setbacks shown, and are they appropriate? Um, what's the phasing? As we discussed uh just a minute ago, um we're looking at streets. There are no streets in this subdivision, but it does abut a state road 1050 as well as that private access road on the south side, which is the main access really into the into the uh subdivision both for this one and um Jo-Ann's and Sam's. Um, and then the technical review is uh is really just the the process in which it goes through where all of the staff and others review it. And all of those notes are in your packet. So I've I've listed all of the review comments that were sent to the development team, their comments back um in terms of the revisions that they made and then I've also included a second level of comments on top of that. So what you're seeing in the packet and what's being presented to you tonight is a final plat. We have the opportunity to do a preliminary and a final, but given the timeline that um the development team wanted to meet and really the straightforwardness of the proposal, we felt like um we could utilize the pre-application

process. We spent uh quite a bit of time in pre-application and then really with two rounds of comments um and revisions, they were able to satisfy all of the comments that we've had and to and to meet all of the ordinance. So um this is a recommendation to the city council for final plat approval. So this is just a snapshot of the plat. Um this is uh better viewed inside your packet, but I wanted to just include this as reference. As Jason mentioned, it's a three lot subdivision. It grabs that piece from from the larger lot there, the 5.3 acre um lot that is uh to the south. That's mainly what lot two is comprised of in the new subdivision. It creates three lots with three building pads and um and establishes it as its own um as its own subdivision. as common. Uh this is a site plan review as well as a subdivision plan review because they are so um so similar. And so we did the full site plan review. Again, those comments are in your packet. Um we'll come back to this picture uh and as well as the landscaping. I'll cover um some of the special considerations that we looked at in our normal site plan review. So there every project has some interesting nuances that it presents and so I wanted to just highlight some of those. Um because of the nature of the of the drive-thru around pad A, you are getting cars that are coming kind of that from the middle of the project kind of going west and then turning to a uh to a southern orientation. and has the potential at night to conflict with um northbound traffic, the the lights and those kind of things. So, there is a burming requirement and you can see that little picture at the bottom. Um, so we spent a

bit of time looking at the burming that would be required along 1050 to ensure that there's enough height there both in a burm a physical burm and the landscaping use to block some of that um that headlight noise onto oncoming traffic. So they were very good about uh looking at that and proposing something that we felt would work. Um, another interesting change was, again, this is all meant to be a universally planned area. And right now, if you go um, north on 1050, you'll see that the park strip in front of Home Depot, it has a small park strip and then a wide setback. And, um, and that park strip and setback are um, they comprise they're comprised of turf. And so that was done in a at a time where we didn't have as much focus on um water wise management and zeros escaping and things like that. And so in talking with our public works director, we felt it would be appropriate to follow our current ordinance and that is to uh not put turf in the park strip. That's actually um something that's not uh allowed. but then to kind of use the zeros escape principles that we have. And so you see that here on the on the landscape plan that they've done that. So you won't have that consistency driving the project essentially um from the beginning of this project all the way to Home Depot, but we feel like it will be complimentary and better for for our water goals. Queuing in the drive-through is important. Um going back to the site plan. So, you see the drive-thru uh enters there in the middle of the plan and then turns uh west and heads south and then comes back and east around pad A. This is actually a two drive drive-thru. So, they they are separated at the beginning. Um you can see in the middle there, I don't have a pointer, unfortunately. I wish I did, but um

there's a there's an island that is called out in between the two drive-throughs, and that separates the traffic that allows um individuals to Oh, thank you. Right there.

A little little up right Oh, down right in the middle. Yep. That So, that's to be concrete. That's a concrete separation between the two drive aisles that allows cars to come through separated. There will be two points of ordering. Um, so if you've been to these double drive-throughs, you'll be familiar. But then they'll merge back on the south end. Um, and so the the design of that was key. I think they've done a good job. Signage and um, striping will be critical here to make sure that that functions well, and I think that they've they've proposed all of that just fine. But that would allow two drive-throughs on either end of pad A. So, in the looking at the the drawing in the top right corner in the parking stalls, what is that?

Is that garbage cans? Is that what that is? Um, oh, top right. It's got a I think that's in the parking spaces. Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a dumpster enclosure. That's a dumpster enclosure. Okay. Yep.

Okay. So, um that drive-thru and the queuing in the drive-thru again was uh something that we looked at. Ingress and egress. We talked about that we wanted to make sure that not only could the site flow but it can flow at in phase one. So we asked them to make sure that the ingress and the egress were constructed as well as most of the parking. Um the parking for pad B is uh almost all there. They'll get a couple of stalls. You can see on this plan uh they'll get a few more stalls on pad B and then a few more stalls associated with pad C. But for the most most part, most of the landscaping is met under um phase one, which is pad A, and most of the parking. And so, as you see the development of the other pads, they'll they'll be as least disruptive as we could figure out how to make them. All of the existing asphalt will will work well for for as long as pad A is in. And that goes for um storm water management. One of the requirements was to line the edge of the asphalt between pad B and the drive aisle and and parking lot and pad C with an asphalt rolled curb. And that allows um water to drain almost like a curb to the appropriate places that are designed in the parking lot as well as hopefully prohibit folks from parking and driving in the empty lots at B and C. And so we'll encourage the developer to work as fast as they can to get those two buildings up. Um we we touched on the UD do encroachment a little bit. Uh so that is one of the conditions that is mentioned um in our review that uh um the UD dot encroachment is obtained prior to city council um approval or action on that. And then architectural elevations are reviewed through the design review committee. That's a committee that meets

separate from the planning commission and the city council. It's comprised of myself, the mayor, the um city manager, uh the chair of the planning commission as well as um the I think the building official and the public works director. Uh, and so we review the elevations, the colors, and we asked them to make a few changes related to the southeast elevation, um, a little bit, and then also the northwest elevation, and they've done a good job um, meeting those, uh, changes as well. Trina's Nails is not an accurate company name or Burgers or Food Stop,

right? Those are good names. I I want to open a company that just says burgers. Um so in thinking of the RCP requirements um you know looking at adjacent buildings that are of this scale and of this orientation we really have a good example at um the uh uh the uh project that's just up the uh road by um Hobby Lobby. These are this is the same architect um same style of building same size and scale. And so we felt like that um if we if they were to pull some cues off of that uh it's the town square. Sorry, I couldn't think of that. Um so they've done a good job uh kind of matching the look and feel of that size and scale of the buildings in the adjacent area. So based on our review, um we find that uh the proposal complies with all of the applicable objective requirements of our code and and state code. Um, we've looked at it through the applicable zoning standards. We've looked at it through the applicable subdivision design requirements. Um, the public and private infrastructure standards that are required to be met. Fire and emergency access requirements have been met. So, part of the review was our fire um team. They looked at that for access and fire flow and things like that. And as well as all the technical standards that are required to to meet these types of applications. And so um that is our review. We do place a few conditions on on um those comments. First of all, they would need to finalize the water transfer and this is meant to all be done before this goes to city council for their final action. The goal always is is to come out of city council with a complete application ready to u move forward. So they'll need to provide the water transfer. We're working on that

right now. Uh there's also an improvement guarantee for the public uh infrastructure that needs to be done. That's not massive, but still a requirement. Uh they've provided the long-term long-term storm water maintenance agreement. We just need to do a final review and that gets signed and recorded. Uh they will um do a final myar that gets recorded um with the long-term storm water maintenance plan. Uh so that is uh forthcoming and then obviously that U DOT encroachment permit. So, those are the conditions that we would place on um our conclusion. And um so, in terms of your determination tonight, uh we've provided again some language that could help you construct a a motion, but really uh your options are approve um with the conditions that we've stated, um approve with the conditions and potential modifications that you may want to see based on, uh your discussion. uh recommend approval for deny or recommend um denial to the city council or if there's something that you feel is missing and that you would like to revisit in a future date uh then you also can uh table this action.

Okay. Thank you Cooper. Would you gentlemen please step back up to the microphone and any other questions that we have now as planning commission? I have a couple of questions. Uh, Pad B is, uh, projected to be a restaurant of some kind. Um, if they decided to do a drive-thru in there as well, would there be room for that? Yes. And that's actually what's proposed there is a drive. We've got a drive-thru that goes in a horseshoe around that building. Single lane. Single lane. Yep. So, I'm not a In-N-Out or a Chick-fil-A.

Small stack. burger. And then the other question that I had, um, I just forgot. I should have written it down. Um, so I can't think of what it is. So, anybody else have a anything? I have a question for for Mr. Cooper. Does our general plan say anything about um a distance between similar type of um businesses? Like I'm just thinking of Jamba Juice that's pretty close to this area.

There's nothing that says you can't be be kept to be so far away. Okay. Yeah. We we we regulate um types of uses in the commercial zone, but it doesn't get that granular, nor does it place restrictions on um those kind of businesses. There are distance limitations on retail specialty tobacco shops and um I think that's the only one that and temporary structures for for seasonal sales but uh general business is not regulated by distance. Okay. Thank you.

I've remembered my question. So, um recognizing that this uh that your uh subdivision that you're putting in is actually part of a larger um uh subdivision. I I'm just curious, brick colors, will they uh match the brick colors that are currently there or what's the because it doesn't look like in the in what we saw that they do. I don't know if that's something that's important as far as this uh as what we're trying to achieve here.

So the direction that we gave them was to um look at appropriately scaled buildings. So um Target and Home Depot and Sam's and Walmart. They're massive buildings that have a whole different kind of architectural language. And so that's why we reached a little bit further to look at buildings that are of similar size and shape. And I think that they have done a good job matching those. Um, will it match like the the Home Depot next door and the Sam's? No, you won't see those similar colors, but you will see similar materials. So, you'll see brick, you'll see metal, and you'll see stucco.

Okay. All right. Um, that's my only questions that I had. Mr. Cooper, can you go back to that drawing, please? Which one? That one. Uh, not that one. The one that shows in pad B with Okay. So, with the the drive-thru. So, you have minimal parking in pad B. And then in pad C, you'll have parking out front also. But that gives you technically, I guess, three drive-throughs within just a little bit of a distance between pad A and pad B. Do you see a potential issue with pedestrian traffic?

Because you don't have very much parking right there. And then you have parking. You know, your parking is way out here. You're going to have a lot of people walking in between three drive-thrus. That seems like a pretty big hazard to myself. So, you're talking about people who are kind of parked on the east side of that. Yeah. If they've got to park out there. Yeah. That is something that we've um had concerns about as far as the pedestrian um traffic through there. Um, because I know like at the Cafe Rio and Mo Better up there with those drive-throughs in there, the the amount of traffic that they have, you see a lot of near misses. That seems like a huge near miss right there to me.

Yeah. I mean, initially there's going to be just that single access on the south side for pad A. Once pad C comes online, even pad B, one or the other, there's going to be another lane further, you know, to the east between the one that's there now and pad C, which will help kind of divide up that traffic so that not everybody's funneled. Like right now, anybody coming to the drive-thru is funneled through that that one access, but once the other one gets built, then they'll have two two options for going north. which would probably divide that up somewhat. Um, yeah. So, there'll be two entrances onto that

Jo. Right. Yep. I see this kind of as a pedestrian situation where like you have the Honey Baked Ham. You park and then you walk to Honey Baked Ham and those other businesses where there's a drive area in front of that those stores. And I've been there a few times and it's been reasonable. That's the best way I can put it is.

So, we we looked at that and um what Jason just said is true. When for for the moment, it'll be isolated to the to the dark gray um drive approach that you see, but if you look to the east there, there's the lighter gray entrance that would be built with pad C. Um the commission could look at um a recommendation as as a condition of striping some some crosswalks. I mean, um, the circulation we feel is okay and crosswalks aren't a perfect solution, but that could be something that that might help orient people in safer pathways, right? Okay.

Is there no way to have you guys put in both entrances with A instead of having that as part of C? So, there's really no benefit to adding that second one when just only pad A is online because there's no parking on either side of that main throat there. Um, the the the benefit where that comes into play is when either pad B or C comes online. That's when it really makes a difference having that extra aisle there. I feel like there could be issues with those two openings inlets being onto that same road within that same short period of time right there with people coming in and out. So, you'll be able to come in and out of both of those

right once C is ready and you've got people turning right and stopping to turn into the second entrance, but there only a couple parking spaces between the two entrances. Yep. And like you're saying with pad A and pad B, then you've got tech, you know, in theory three drive-throughs with that those two right there. That's that seems like a slight issue. Are there modifications that need to be made to this road on the outside of it as well to hold that traffic? Because it feels like a back street when you take it now. Mhm. It's not really a road. I mean, it feels like you're coming in the back way into Sam's. Yeah. Right.

Does that need to all be redone?

So, as part it's part of their parcel, and so it will be part of their improvements, at least half of it. Um, the uh once you come in off a 1050, if you kind of look, if you bring everything in focus at once, especially those islands to the to the bottom of the picture, when you come in, um, you'll essentially feel like it's a parking lot. the whole thing because it no longer will be a narrow just paved road with dirt on both sides. Um, so so you'll come in, take a right, and as soon as you get past that first island on the bottom right, you'll you'll basically feel like you're in a parking lot. And so you'll navigate it like you normally navigate parking lots. It won't feel like a street through the middle of two parking lots.

Okay. Okay. And and I believe that that um um line that is um kind of a broken line that goes down that's just delineating your part of that road. So the road is actually twice that wide. Is that is that correct? So that that heavy dash line you're talking about that's the property line. Yes. On the south side. Yes. Roughly down the middle of that. So that's that's only half of the road basically, right?

The so the other half of the road is still there. So it's it's wider than it looks in the in that picture if you're just looking at that heavy dotted line. Would you be comfortable at least striping a line at the end of the parking lot before pulling out onto that path that goes from 1050 to Sam's? You know what I'm saying? at the bottom of the dark gray. So it so it doesn't the people exiting that don't feel like, oh, I'm just cruising through the parking lot. Oh, oh, this is a somewhat of a thoroughfare. Yeah. of people. Just as a reminder that hey, there's cross traffic here.

Is that I mean, yeah, there is a stop in there with a stop bar. At the top, yeah, if necessary, there could be some crosswalk type striping across there. It's just the back of the building. I don't think that would be necessary until the next pad would come online for pedestrian striping, but yeah, I'm I'm good with that cuz technically in the long run, Jason, correct me if I'm wrong. So, this spot is going to be unimproved. Then this what triangle? True. To the east of Sam's Club. Yeah,

that's Sam's Club. And then there's this is actually right. This is actually some trees and things like that. And see potentially a drivethru. It's a I think building a wet, right? Yeah. With the tire shop, they could potentially pull in one side and pull out the other depending on their configuration or they would pull in each side. Okay. And then is there's water retention correct on the on the east side of that towards Sam between you and Sam's Club. Is that is that what that is there?

There is an existing detention basin on just outside of our property on the east side. And where our current plan because we don't currently have permission to discharge into that basin is going to be to have underground detention chambers, water retention. Right. So those the water will be collected underground and then there's a a 42inch storm drain pipe along that east west roadway that we'll be discharging into. Okay. And and that is in the current plan that you've filed with the city. Yep.

Okay. And that detention is designed for the whole development. So it's not going to be phased. It's all going to go in. And so they're not going to need any further storm drain um construction to to finish it off. Chair, one other quick thought is um the site plan recommendation that you're making tonight is just for the gray area that you see. So when it's time for them to develop pad B and pad C, they'll be required to bring new site plans in. And so you'll get to see all three buildings and how they work together. So by the time you see pad B, pad A will be operating for some time and we'll understand and kind of know what's happening on site and um you'll have a chance to make some additional recommendations in the future based on reality.

Thank you, Mr. Cooper. Any other questions or comments? Then um yes, I move that we forward a recommendation of approval to the city council for the proposed River Park retail final subdivision plat and site plan as requested by Southbridge LLC subject to the information found in the staff report from this meeting and based on the following findings and conditions. The conditions being um the application the applicant shall finalize the required water transfer, finalize the required improvement guarantee, finalize the required long-term storm water maintenance plan, obtain a final UD do encroachment permit and the finding of the proposal being harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity of the subject property. Okay. in your um recommendation, did you want to uh mention anything about uh striping for crosswalks or anything like that?

No, I I don't think with BNC being part of this at that point maybe necessary, but I I think it's fine as Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Hansen. Any um discussion? I second it. Second it. Okay. Any discussion on the motion? Okay, then uh we'll vote on that. Um Michelle, would you please uh pull the commission? Commissioner Henstra, yes. Mr. Francis, yes. Commissioner Kerry, yes. Commissioner Bowp, yes. Mr. Hilton, yes. Commissioner Herman, yes. Mr. Hansen, yes.

Okay, so that's unanimous. Thank you and congratulations. look forward to that beginning in the near future. Next uh item on the agenda would be um number three, consideration to set a public hearing to receive public comment on a proposed zone um reszone and a an amendment to the general plan for property located at 671 West, 4400 South, Riverdale, Utah from R4 residential to C3 general commercial to allow for the development of a retail automobile dealership. Mr. Cooper,

you pretty much summed it up. I don't have a presentation, but uh this is a request that we've received from uh the applicant uh CarMax. So, they are looking to um uh amend the general plan um which calls for this area to be attached residential. uh they're looking to amend it to commercial as well as a reszone from its current zoning of R4 to C3 for for their um business which is used autos. Uh it's a 10day notification. So uh if you'll pick a date um that's at least 10 days from tomorrow that would be very helpful.

Okay. And um our next two uh planning commissions would be March 10th or March 24th just for your um just for your knowledge in case you wanted to use one of those dates. Um any uh discussion about the um about that? I think that we're ready to make a motion then. I'll propose a motion to set a public hearing to receive public comment on proposed reszone and a ch a general plan amendment for the property located at 671 West 4400 South Riverdale, Utah from R4 to C3 to allow for the development of a retail automotive dealership um to take place on March 10th.

Thank you. Any second? I'll second. Thank you. And all all in favor? Yes. Yes. Any opposed? Okay. And number four, presentation and discussion regarding comprehensive ordinance amendments to title 10. Uh so is uh Mr. Hansen.

I just texted him. He's ready to go. So as soon as Michelle can uh get the technology up to speed, I think we're in business. Okay. And while she's doing that, I'll just uh reiterate um the purpose of the discussion. Um most of you uh were a part of the discussion last um meeting about the uh amendments to title 10. And during that discussion, we investigated the idea of potentially adding to our general plan um sub plans, which are called neighborhood plans. And those sub plans or neighborhood plans would be um delineated by an imaginary line that we all create um hopefully with a lot of public comment. And uh we asked Mr. Hansen to um go back and study the the benefits and maybe some of the drawbacks of doing something like that. they have a lot of experience in this area. And so he has um created a a little um brief that he sent to me that I felt very um good about. And so we'll turn the time over to him to have him explain his findings and maybe a recommendation that then you all can consider and then give me a recommendation so that I can go and work with administration to see if I can make it happen.

All right, Mr. Hansen. uh appreciate you being with us and thank you for uh waiting. Uh we're a little later than what we anticipated. You're totally fine. Can you guys hear me? Okay. Yes.

Excellent. Uh I um and thanks for letting me join you on Zoom. I have uh my boy was sick for two weeks and I thought, "Oh, good. I missed it until a couple days ago and then I just caught whatever he's got." I'm going to show you this on my screen. Um, I I get nervous about making people car sick because I click around faster than they're ready for me to. But if it's okay with you all, I would like to kind of walk through that brief um and just give you the highlights. I don't want to read it to you. Um, I did I think I got carried away. Oh my gosh, it's 18 pages. ignore that part, but I will give you the highlights of it and then um I do have some examples um to show you on some of these other tabs up here um just so we can all get kind of a good feel for it before we have a discussion. But at the end of the day um the the big question is is your general plan providing to me sorry this is my question. And I don't know if if the planning commission would agree with this, but for me it's uh the discussions we've had about your code. It comes back to does your general plan actually provide good solid, you know, rationale and support for some of the things that we want to see in the code. And um for me that when when the idea of neighborhood plans came up in your last meeting um man that was just interesting. So, I went out and I looked them up, you know, the the easy ones to find and uh then I made phone calls to all the planners that had to build them and implement them and stay, you know, with them for the years. Um, so anyway, that's kind of what this report is is just kind of a a summary of my findings. I do have an option B, which is I really like this idea. Keep in mind, of course, like I've told you all all along, I am a planning nerd. I love this stuff. I could do this stuff all I do do this stuff all day. So, of course, I'm going

to like this, but I'll show you why I like it and um just keep going. One thing though, um I would like to point out is if if we do go down this path, I would really like to find a way to have it happen concurrently with the code as much as possible. Well, I don't think you can go exact, but but I don't know that once we get the city um residents involved, you know, and get them excited about a new initiative, I don't think it should go on for a year. I I think we should try to find a way to just really stay focused on this and and push it. So, like maybe before end of before the holidays this calendar year, you've got new plan, well, updated plan and updated code implemented, done in the books. So, that's kind of my highle takeaway. Um, if you look for examples, I found a few. Um, this one's Ogden. That was a very easy example. I think we talked about that even in the meeting. Um, they have a number of neighborhood plans. I asked them how you carve those up and they had the most unique answer probably because Ogden was so big, but they said that some of these neighborhoods are based on um elementary school boundaries. And uh I thought that was kind of a curious way of doing it, but they said, you know, the the school districts studied it and that's kind of it made a lot of sense to to follow that pattern for some of them. Obviously not over in the rail yards and such. Um but uh just to show that that's not that unique to have that many neighborhood plans. Uh this one up here, I don't know if you're able to see it very well, that's Oram. And you can kind of see the scale of what they considered a neighborhood when they built those. It's seems pretty similar to to Ogden. Um, and then this graphic down here I thought would be good to highlight as well because this is Provo. Now, this is smaller than I think what you would see

in these other towns. And, uh, just to kind of give you a spoiler alert, uh, when I talked to Provo, they're currently updating their general plan in house. And one of the goals of the general plan is to consolidate some of these neighborhood plans. They still like neighborhood plans. They just think some of the ones they built were a little too small geographically and they think they could be, you know, stick two or three together and they would make more sense and be more useful. So, so, you know, when when it comes down to what is a neighborhood, because I know that's a discussion point that we're going to have to get to very quickly if we decide to go down this path. Like for Riverdale, what is a neighborhood? I do have one graphic. I don't know if I'm real proud of it, but I'll show you that of just my absolute back of the napkin guess. Um, you all would need to do that. But some of the criteria that I heard from from other towns that have done this. Um, well, they say what goes in it is um land use issues always talk about infrastructure and transportation. Um, housing and and especially cool with that one is it's the housing character. That is very hard to do in a citywide um general plan. Uh so they liked that a lot. Um there was mixed uh input on whether to talk about parks and such. Part I got excited about and I didn't actually see in very many plans is the development opportunity or potential and the redevelopment potential for different neighborhoods. I think for Riverdale that would be really I don't know if I was writing one today I would absolutely make that a highlight before I get into the goals. So, um, this chart, don't make fun of the formatting, but these are the towns that I kind of studied as part of this. I just wanted to see what they put in it to see if there were patterns or anything like that. Not a lot jumped out, obviously, that you have to show the location, what the neighborhood is. I was personally I was kind of impressed and surprised that

almost every one of them had neighborhood level goals. Um because one of the pieces of feedback I did get also was um neighborhood plans are great if you can manage people's expectations and they know what this is. And I think okay great well if you had a neighborhood um kind of level plan that didn't have goals in it then I think it'd be easier to manage expectations that you know this isn't like a new layer of zoning or something like that. But almost all the plans have it in there. So, it's goals specific to the neighborhood, not just city-wide goals. Um, some of them didn't even talk about transportation. That's strange to me. Um, anyway, we can look more at some of these things. These four points here, um, I do want to go through these. Uh, they're these are kind of my summary of when you actually interview planners and I go, "Hey, I'm just a consultant. I won't really quote you. I'm not quoting them." Um, what they all say is these plans are really good, but you have to kind of write them not like code, but if you're going to make them, what am I trying to say? If you're going to make them a resource for development applications and and such, you know, if you're going to really use these plans, make it easy to read them. And so, they're saying make chapters and verses, so to speak. So, we're talking about um like picture your existing general plan, but it's got, you know, 2.0 006 A and then B and then C. Kind of like you would write a code. Um they do say structurally that makes referencing things in the neighborhood plans so much better, so much easier. And uh it's also makes it a lot more transparent for staff when they're doing recommendations to you all on different applications. So I like that. I've been doing that with general plans lately. So I liked hearing that from other people, too. Um, we talked about this a little bit before, but I if you have, especially if you have a lot of plans, Ogden has a ridiculous number. They have

neighborhoods, but then they also have corridor plans. Um, they kind of function like those neighborhood plan. They just have a lot of moving parts. And one of the criticisms I heard from Ogden is they said it is super hard to keep everybody singing from the same sheet of music, so to speak. You know, so they gave one example that if you don't have a like a strong I call it an umbrella. Sorry, I don't know if this is making sense, but like an umbrella part of your general plan where it's like citywide issues and it's kind of a call it a third of your general plan or something like that's citywide stuff and then you could have sections that are about neighborhoods. Ogden was saying that their update of their general plan is got to do that. It's got to pull these parts back together. He gave me some war stories about how one neighborhood plan showed a road expansion. You like we want to see in this neighborhood this road go bigger and in the next neighborhood like as soon as it crossed that invisible boundary they wanted it shorter and the two plans didn't talk to each other and so you need a a citywide thing to kind of keep track of the regional picture and such. So, that was a uh pretty important um especially when it comes to parks and wreck and infrastructure issues. Um I already mentioned Provo, how they're starting to they said their neighborhood areas were a little too granular, so they go, you know, stick them together, make them a little bit bigger. Um, but the the one almost almost universal comment I got, I will say almost again is that if you have a neighborhood level plan, then engaging with that neighborhood is so much better, so much easier. Normal like residents get it a lot more than they get kind of an abstract general plan or a technical code. Um, so that was good. where it kind of got off the rails. I can't remember was it Oram or OG, one of

the towns, the bigger one of the bigger towns said that they it went a little bit too far with the public engagement. U maybe it was Oram. Um they said that it became kind of a struggle because they they can't manage the expectations of the um of the neighborhoods. And so it's almost like there's these rogue planning commission that nobody knows what their role is. And so they get frustrated a lot. And so anyway, that's something we've really got to make sure is clear as to, you know, boundaries of of authority and influence and such. I have, you know, these are pros and cons of um doing it in Riverdale. I'll fast forward this and just say I think it's pretty good. This section about respon responding to legislative changes. Um I think it's really good. uh all the towns said that that does make it easier like if you have to do a housing one then you update the housing or the neighborhoods that have heavy housing uh what am I saying um land uses in them um so it's a lot more targeted but they also said you still got to do the same public notice and all that kind of thing um uh there is one I didn't write down um last year there was a bill in the legislature that didn't go far um tried to reintroduce it again this year I I don't know if it's getting anywhere, but it's an idea that says cities need to write general plans that have enough teeth like they have teeth equal to zoning ordinance, for example. Um, so in other words, it's an implementable like administrative document. It's not just an advisory document like it is today. If that went through, I think every city will build neighborhood level plans. That's just my humble opinion because you would be blending planning and zoning in one place and so I think you just go smaller scale. Anyway, I didn't

think that bill is going to go through in the next, you know, year, but it is one of those horizon events that could happen. Options for you folks because Riverdale's size and geography does make it kind of an interesting candidate. I don't know if the neighborhoods are 100% obvious to me. Maybe they are to you folks, but I thought you have an option A which is this hybrid thing where you keep your existing general plan um but then you add appendices at the end. So in other words, it's like you know here's the housing chapter in the city plan that you have today and then you would add uh you would adopt a new appendix that says now here's how it really applies in this neighborhood and here's how it goes in this neighborhood. So that's one. two is kind of like think about how I was talking about that umbrella approach where you have a citywide plan like the lessons learned from Ogden citywide in the first third or something and then the other parts are just a natural next part of the the actual general plan and then you could just do these sub area plans and those towns that are doing these uh I talked to them they're kind of like major huge development agreements I don't know that that kind of makes sense. It's like development agreements are kind of tricky. You guys are learning that with that um area. I think what is it? Southeast of the city down there. Um I didn't love that, but I had to come up with something to, you know, make the table fit a whole page because that's important. So the big question is how would you carve up Riverdale? Um got into it. Turns out you did do this before. you had like two general plans ago or something, you actually had these areas and I think there was nine maybe more areas. Somebody told me that. Oh yeah, here's a nine over here. So I found this graphic in your current

general plan that talked about your previous general plan. But you have tried this before. Um, and I would suggest the reason why they went away from this in your current general plan uh is just look how small some of these areas are. Like this is your American Express. Is that right? Did I get that? I at least get that wrong. But you know that commercial office part that was two different areas. I would think that would make sense. If anything, it would be part of one, not two. So, you have seen this before. I was just looking for some other way to carve it up. I thought maybe we could match census areas. Um, the bigger cities can get away with that. You guys can't. Your census boundaries are really weird. they kind of blend over your city line and and that kind of stuff. Tried to follow um like voting districts. That also kind of kind of works, kind of doesn't work. I don't know if you think that's something we could follow as far as like copying and pasting something we've done or the city's done elsewhere. Uh some of those voting pre precincts, they do stay within your city boundaries, but like this whole bottom area, the entire thing is one district. Um, and maybe that's just because of geography and population, but could follow that approach, too. Uh, when I got into it, I kind of thought, well, this is oversimplifying things, but Hill Air Force Base stuff kind of not going to change a whole lot. So, if you put that with something, that's probably fine. And I just thought like the red would be your commercial areas and and the base, your existing neighborhoods. Now, I know I probably got the boundaries all wrong, but the idea is residential kind of neighborhood, commercial neighborhood. Sorry, Green's got your hillside and such, but this Highway 84, that is a wall that these folks are probably not going to be hanging out with each other from the east and the west sides. So, I

thought, well, maybe that's its own neighborhood. And then the blue would be kind of that larger lot stuff you've got going on. And and just off the the base, that hill there. So, That was one idea. I don't think it's the idea, but it was I had a lot of Nyquil in the last couple days and so that's kind of where I came down with that. So feel free making fun of me if that's just crazy talk right there. I wanted to make sure I know we've talked about this before. I wanted to make sure I thought through um what the outline would be for a general plan. And so I'm I'm because ultimately if you guys decide to go down this and if you let me help you with it, I've got to come back to you with a scope that says I'm going to build you A, B, C, and D. So I try to put together like think of it as a table of contents just to make sure that this doesn't become redundant or we miss things or or stuff like that. So that's what this section is in uh what is it we have eight. Um I just went through you know the state required what I like to see in a general plan personally. There's some stuff you don't have in your current general plan that I would love to put in um if you think it's appropriate, but um but then to come down to a neighborhood level plan. So, say we do that umbrella thing. That top stuff would be citywide issues, but then when you get down to this, I think you need a map. We need to have some good language with photos that talks about the character and the identity. I'm picturing in my head a developer coming up and Brandon's first person they got to talk to and Brandon gives and they just go hey tell me back in the napkin just would this work do you think and Brandon needs to be able to say you know I think that's going to be awesome for this neighborhood or I think that the neighborhood's going to really struggle with this and if he can point to a document that gives him backup on that that is golden I think that's going to

save him a lot of you stress in his life. So, I think you got to be able to talk about character and identity. Obviously, the land use pattern that has to be in there for sure. And housing, that's one consistent thing. Not in every plan, but I'd say at least half of them um have a lot of like housing architecture kind of sections where they go out and they take pictures. This is an average house in this area and this is this kind of and that there's a lot of this by the commercial and and so forth. So impressed I haven't been coughing. Here it comes. Anyway, um so I think you have to talk about the housing, the transportation. Yes. But again, tied to the citywide stuff. Same thing with parks and infrastructure, economic development. That's one of the reasons why I also thought a commercial corridor could be a neighborhood. Um could be talked out of that quickly. But you also have all these RDA project areas that are kind of like lining at least part of that commercial corridor. if they were all in one area because they seem to be trying to do solve similar problems. Anyway, acknowledge the citywide goals and then talk about um kind of who's in charge and how's things are going to actually change. That would be uh it would talk to your capital improvements program, maybe like a parks master plan or anything like that or if WFRC puts together a I don't know some kind of transit plan or there you can put those elements in. I mean the end of these neighborhood plans. So the big question also is how fast could you do it? I get really aggressive with planning and then I forget that you guys don't want to hang out every day. So maybe something

can dial me back a little bit. But I still like the idea of what if we put together a six-month work program, you know, um maybe it turns into eight, but but not a year if you can help it. if we can stay focused and get it going um get it done um with the the code again going on uh simultaneously. This is just stuff for the the city to consider is what do you actually need to do this? Um I'll tell you the ongoing don't I have it? Yeah, ongoing maintenance and such. the folks that have got a lot of history with neighborhood plans, what they'll say is they don't really the the residents don't really know or care about the citywide general plan and when that's updated, but they want their neighborhood one looked at at least every 5 years. They just like to know that the city cares about them and thinking about them and um but they're not trying to turn the world upside down maybe, but that they're at least aware that, you know, they're still around. So, I would say a 5-year update and I don't know if that's a lot of workload for you folks. Um, but with your commercial corridor and as much as you guys have that churn, I maybe that's normal for you. Tried to find some budget support there. That's just me trying. There's no good budget support out there. So, my final recommendation um that option B um up in that section seven. Uh whoops, wrong section. That's good. that I didn't change my thing. Um, where is it? Approach options. The first part, you know, the umbrella approach. You you have the citywide elements and then neighborhood plans. Um, they're harder to build, but they're going to last longer, I think, and they're going to be a lot more integrated. So, that's kind of my recommendation. Um, I also think that your 2023 plan, again, I didn't write it. I don't I don't even know who wrote

it, but there's things that are really I think great in it and you could just kind of upcycle those into a little bit better and more organized format. Um there's some parts I would suggest also was kind of missing. Um just cuz I like to do I cities spend half their budget on public safety and and resilience like fire and that kind of stuff. general plan doesn't talk about that very much and you don't have to talk about it very but just show that you you're aware of the issues and I would like to put that in there. Um uh of course you know all that gets scoped out later. So, for tonight, again, Brandon, you'd correct me, but I think we need to decide like go no go on the concept and see if that goes anywhere. And then if so, you guys help me define what is an actual good thought for a neighborhood. You know, how would you carve up that map? Um, I did talk to um one of the planners that was super familiar with Riverdale and he says, "Hey, you know what? I know that town. that town needs three neighborhoods, maybe four. I like sweet. That's that's what I drew. I'm too lazy to change it. So, you know, I liked that. Um, but he's he's saying, "Don't go with 12. Don't don't be trying to do that and and don't do two." Um, so Oh, that said though, Centerville and Well, and a couple of them, they have these little islands of neighborhood plans. They don't try to carve the entire city up. They just have like these focus areas, and they'll call them districts and whatnot. um can be done. It does feel a little bit like an overlay zone. It's like, you know, here's the rules. Oh, and here's some extra rules. So, I don't know if I love that as much, but um it is possible. So, anyway, yeah. And then, of course, if if this is a decision to go for, then we really got to hammer out what the scope is going to be. So,

that too much y'all asleep. No, we're not asleep. No. So, at present with our title 10 changes we're doing, we're not touching the general plan in any way. Right. So, not comprehensively. No. There might be a few things we have to address um but not to this level. Okay. Right.

And yeah, every code project I do, I I propose and say, I guarantee we're going to update your general plan. And not every town loves that. But the left hand and right hand have got to be talking to each other. Your your plan is the vision and the rationale and your implementation. And those two have to be tied. And so if we go down a path with plan or mean the code, say we throw all this away, we're still going to open up your general plan. I bet you and we put in a couple little targeted fixes. Okay. Remind me if city council has been told about this at all. We're waiting to decide here and look at funding before they're they're told anything.

I mentioned it to them in um a work session that we had just recently and uh they we didn't have a comprehensive talk about it, but they seemed to be open to the idea. Yeah. Okay. Okay. No one told me no. Okay. I like the idea of the four um neighborhoods that you've proposed. Um, that looks like it makes a lot of sense to me. Uh, the way that they're are structured. Uh, I don't know how anybody else feels about that, but I agree. I like the four. I think it's it's simple, but it also works. No more than five, but four is ideal. Keep it simple.

So then, what does funding look like for this? Uh, not sure. Um Mike and I didn't get a chance to talk offline about what the scope in general might look like in an associated budget. Um as I mentioned and what Mike just showed us is that there are some grant cycles that are um out there that this would be an eligible project for, but those are beyond the timeline that is being recommended. He's recommending finishing this year, which I absolutely agree with. um we wouldn't get that funding until next year. Um right.

So we would have to look at doing this out of the general fund budget. Um and I've kind of broached the subject with uh Cody, not Steve yet. I haven't had a chance to talk with him, but I told Cody, "Hey, we're looking for some stuff." And he's like, "Well, now's the time to do it because we're going into our budget discussions." Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think it would be worthwhile to get the community involved and get that engagement piece. Like that's what really appeals to me is helping them get more involved in what we're doing in the city and what their neighborhoods look like and kind of all of that engagement around that. I I don't know what the price tag looks like to do it, but

Yeah. Yeah. And and neither do I. I I wasn't just being wimpy to to not put numbers in, but it depends on what you say, you know, like Sorry. Dang it. public engagement um can be all over the map as far as how many times to touch. The thing is is you're what is good for the city is you did just update your I mean just in planning terms you know it's like what a couple years ago you had general plan finished. So there's a lot we can pull from that. So if we go to the community, I think you could even go to them with a highle draft that's that's pulled from your existing general plan and then like I guess what I'm trying to say is it wouldn't be you're not going to double the budget for what you're doing with your code. Definitely not not even close to that. You know, you're going to there's going to be more hours required to do the planning work, but I don't know uh some mapping maybe. Um definitely public engagement. Um and then just a little bit of research because you've done research fairly recently. Uh it seems unless you guys tell me the research wasn't great.

The general plan process I wasn't here for but I understand from those who were uh had a lot of public engagement. Pretty significant. So we've got surveys. We've got a tool uh again to do uh really good surveys with um that can include not just text, but we could add pictures and and graphics and things that people can provide feedback on. So, I think I think with what we've done and what we have at our disposal now, that'll help to uh save some time and to drive the cost down hopefully.

And I believe that we could possibly use the general plan as kind of that umbrella that you're talking about. Um that gives the these are the city goals, these are the citywide goals. And so it it uh as we you know if we uh umbrella that um then uh it gives the those that are living in the neighborhoods um the a kind of a direction uh to go as well. Agreed.

Good points. And to follow up too, um, sorry, um, most of you all in the planning commission probably weren't handwriting. Sorry, maybe should type this. Um, you guys weren't involved in actually uh, developing the general plans hands-on. And as an intangible, I'll quit soon. you would be really involved in the uh neighborhood plans. Okay, I made it. So, while he's trying to compose himself, uh I hope someone's there with you in case you die, you need some assistance. um

oxygen. Uh I understand what we're talking about is a lot. If um so at the onset of this, I mentioned I was looking for some feedback from you all tonight. If you want some more time to think about it, if you want to take this document home with you, um I I haven't shared it with you yet. Uh but if Mike's okay with it, we can share it with you. you can read it and then um we can uh look at this on the 10th if that makes you feel more comfortable or if you're good then I'm open to any recommendations.

Right now I'm good with it but giving us the opportunity to study the document and then make changes if we need to on the 10th but I'm up upbeat on this. So, well, we have two new commissioners that may want to look at this since they've never really heard about this before.

I'd like it the general idea, but overall, I'm not a big fan of the neighborhood layout. Um, I think I'd like to see what people who've been around a while, um, what they would draw up besides, you know, no offense, you know, guy from Springville. Um, I'm just I like the idea. I think four is not enough. I think 12's too many, but like if you look the east bench is not the same thing as South Weieber Drive. They're close in vicinity from a bird's eye view, but we all know that's not the same thing. So, I think there's has to be more thought to that. But I'd love to see a few people just draw on a map and see what they think and land somewhere between maybe four and sevenish that makes sense to what that neighborhood is.

I don't think agreeing to go forward means we have to go with Mike's plan. Yeah. I just think are you looking are we looking to start that on the 10th or come back with an idea for that or what do we

just um for the 10th or or tonight whichever you feel comfortable with just your direction on should we pursue um option B what the recommendation is because then I need to go and work with Mike offline to scope it and your comment actually is very relative. I tend to think the same thing. I was thinking those exact same words, not 12, but not four. Um, and um, I think that is important to talk about because Mike's going to need that information because that'll require either less work or more work. Um, so direction first, then I go back and get approval because it's a essentially a contract amendment to our existing contract that I need approval for and funding. And then I'd come back to you and say, "We got it. We don't got it." And then we work out the scope more more um detailed. Mike and I will already have done a lot of that work, but we'll bring it to you, say, "Here's what we think. What are your thoughts?" And then um so that could be another meeting, right? But I think depending on how things go with administration, we can maybe get this wrapped up by the 10th and then um make the contract amendments and then just be back in the saddle because we're still doing title 10 regardless. We're just bolting on a whole another idea that is kind of the same thing. This that's how we got here in the first place. Right.

Right. Yeah. I think if Mike's okay with you sharing it and if you're okay with sharing it, I'd like to review it a lot more. Right. So the So what we're really considering right now is is this the direction we want to go? Do we want to to go towards neighborhood plans or do we want to go back to the uh more traditional type of uh of um plan zoning and planning? So, so that's kind that's kind of the direction. I like the idea. I like the idea of the neighborhood plan. I've liked it all along. Yeah. So, let's move forward with it.

We should move forward with that. But I think we all would like to see the the document and spend a little more time with it as well. But still that you move forward. Yeah.

Okay. So what that means is I'm going to tomorrow hit up the administration talk about the recommendation that you all have given um work out funding is going to be really the only issue. They're not going to say no let's not do that. there there may may be some consideration that they have related to the burden that this places on the city in the future. So two are two big ones that I have experienced and think of and Mike's already mentioned is one the updates that are more regular than a general plan update and the community feedback that's associated with those and then um the idea of setting um granular expectations for neighborhoods. That's uh we've got to be really careful about that. You put the word light pole, decorative light pole in there and the whole neighborhood thinks that they are getting a decorative light pole and when is that going to happen and why isn't in this year's budget? So, I think those are big important things that Mike mentioned um that are real. So, the city might have some reservations about that. I just got to work through it all and I can report back to you now on the 10th about what they say and how we're going to move forward.

Okay, sounds good. I like it. Okay,

that sounds good. Hey, uh I'll just leave you with a couple of things. The appendix of I call it the appendix. That's probably why it's 18 pages. But these are the my notes from when I looked at these other plans, the top link. So, you'll want this digitally. This will get you to all these different plans, like what I actually found and what I was reading through. Um I will point if you don't have time to go through all of them, I would say take a look at North Logan. Um, that's the one our team just did. Just got it approved last I mean we just finished this project and they called them instead of neighborhoods they called them districts but they of course had these canals that made it so easy but uh yeah they didn't come down with two. They came out with a few like this is a highway district which makes me think of your you know main street then on this side it was the manufacturing side but inside that they have a corridor that zoning would say there's going to be these overlay rules but there wasn't a lot of rationale in their plan. So anyway take a look at this one. Uh it might give you an idea of what I'm picturing with your general plan um with those districts we did. I think I might have even shown you guys this highle description of what it is. Here's some more bullets about what it is. Here's a whole lot of pictures about what it is. You know, it gives you a lot more feel uh look feel for it. Um to that point though, also about the granularity, I think. Yeah, I found which one it is. This is what Logan um oh my goodness is neighbors. These aren't elected officials. These aren't planning commission. They're just folks. And so if you're a developer and you want to build in one of these neighborhoods over here, you don't know, do I have to talk to Sue Sorenson about it and get approval from her first and do I have to do

Logan's was kind of all over the place. So and and they talked to me about that. They said, "Yeah, that train left the station and the expectations in the community are a mess. these guys. Anyway, it's a city website and they're putting down resident email addresses. So, that was kind of weird, but uh yeah, so take a look at that. I think there's some good lessons learned in this little report. Uh definitely not like a treatise. I I was trying to believe it or not, you will not believe that, but that is supposed to be pretty concise. So, anyway, happy if you go want to email me offline or or whatever uh with any kind of questions or ideas, um I love this idea. I will um wait to hear back from you guys on this. In the meantime, my team's still just kind of doing quiet stuff in the background that we know we got to do anyway. Uh today I was playing around with definitions um with some of those land uses. I know we've got a lot of work with that and I just that's always there for me. So it's not like I'm sitting back and waiting doing nothing with the code. U but I don't want to get in front of myself too much either if we we know we have this initiative to to do as well. That's all.

All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Hansen. Appreciate your time. Thank you guys. Mr. Cooper, anything else you want to Okay. Nope. Um, so, uh, does anybody have any other, um, discussion points you'd like to make as far as the what we were just talking about? Okay. Then I'd open it up, uh, for, um, any, uh, comments from the planning commission or city staff. Just general comments then a motion is to adjurnn. Yes. Motion to adjurnn. Okay. Second. All in favor? Yes.

Yes. Opposed. All right. We stand adjourned till the 10th. Thank you. You have something for me to sign. Yes, please. Okay. Sounds like you get another meeting, too. Sounds that way.