Finance & Personnel Committee - Regular Meeting

Good evening. We're gonna call the, meeting of the finance and personnel committee, Tuesday, 01/06/2026 at 6PM. Welcome, everybody. I'm gonna every all the members of the committee are here except for council member Newberry who was excused. And we'll move right to new business.

Agenda item 25 dash one three nine eight, resolution authorizing public improvement and loving special assessments against benefited property in La Crosse, Wisconsin dash water main of fourteen hundred and fifteen hundred blocks of Moore Street. This is notice for public hearing. Can I have a motion for a public hearing? Council member Calo, motion to open. Second?

Second, council member Northwood. All in favor? We are in public session. Our first speaker is Barb Larson. That's okay. If you just wanna look down at that little base and press the person speaking, it'll 'll light up red for you. Just press it one more time. Light it'll light up.

There you go. And then just state your name and your municipality. I'm Barb Larson. I'm 2102 Loomis, so I'm on the corner of Loomis And Morris Streets. So that's how I get into this part of this.

So I think really what it's gonna come down to for me is communication. We got a letter on Saturday, December 20. In the letter, it refers to a file 251398. And I found out from a neighbor of mine that it's actually filed 251379, and that is where I found more information. So that would be one thing.

Thing. I don't know if you wanna consider resending that with information where, you know, where the property owners can actually go to the information that they need because I don't know how many people could have just let it go because they couldn't find the information. On our little corner, I've been through quite a few constructions, once of Loomis Street in 2012, and then from the intersection of Loomis And Moore to east to the alley. And that was a few years later. There was another time after that that where they dug down in the intersection itself to make some adjustments.

There might have been another thing in there. I never got to see any of those. I was always working, and, you know, I'd be off to work and come home, and it all be tied up for the day. So my experience would be with when we had the 2012 Lewis Street run done, and that's when we redid our water in that because we got the letter. We didn't have anything about charges to the to the taxpayers.

It was all taken from our regular taxpayer dollars. So this was new when I had the, oh, special assessment. I did find out some information today. I do now know that the reason we didn't have anything like that in 2012 is because they didn't actually replace the water main down Loomis. So thank you very much for that information.

I do have a copy of the letter that I received 01/04/2024. And nowhere in there does it say anything about the potential for special assessments. So the letter that we got on December 20, that was my first indication that there was gonna be anything that we had to pay. I feel like I feel like that's something that the property owners should know before the project is even started. Right now, the project's been completed since November '24.

You know, I guess it's a communication thing again. Let us know ahead of time. I'm sure there are taxpayers who can absorb. Now my my Jackson, my interest isn't that much. I have some neighbors who has thousands of dollars. I'm sure there are taxpayers who can absorb thousands of dollars in their budget, and it doesn't make a difference to them.

Miss Larson, you're limited to three minutes, and you've gone over. But do you have anything you wanna say to wrap it up?

I would ask for consideration of 0% interest for a period of time, maybe two years, for these folks to save up that money to pay it. And, yeah, I'll just end with the communication part. The correct file numbers so we know where we're going, having knowledge prior to digging in and starting the project, let people save up for it. I mean, I know it's on books and everything. Just better communication going forward.

Thank you. I appreciate it. And I'm sorry to cut

you off, but I got No. That's okay.

Thank you. Thank you, miss Larson. I appreciate you. Our next speaker is Tricia Krueger. And if you'll just state your name and your municipality.

Okay. My name is Tricia Kruger. I live at 1410 Moore Street. So a lot of what I'm gonna say is a repeat of Barb's, but, I wrote it down so I can stay on track. On Saturday, December 20, I received a letter from the city clerk notifying me of a potential bill for the water main installation on 1415 Hundred Blocks Of Moore Street.

When I searched the City of La Crosse website for the file number indicated in the letter, I was unable to find any information. On Monday, December 22, I reached out to the engineering department via the phone number listed on the City of La Crosse website, receiving no callback, and I still have not received a call directly back from the engineering department. I reached out via email and received a response from Andrea Trane with a link to the hearing regarding Moore Street project with the correct file number. Listening to the previous city council meeting where we talked about it, the question was asked, do property owners know that this is coming? And it was responded that we would be aware that this was coming.

Looking back, and the letter that was sent out on January '24, notifying us of the project, which stated that the use of bond funds and tax dollars were being used to finance the project. It does not indicate that homeowners would bear some of the cost to finance the project. After speaking with Matt Gallagher today, after I got a call from Tamara, who then followed up with Matt, it my understanding that my portion of the work is significantly higher just based because of the fact that my house is farther from where the water main line was placed. I have the smallest lot on the block, but yet my portion is almost four As a homeowner, I budget for home improvements. Receiving a notice that I was expected to pay almost $4,000 for work that was done over a year ago, but no advance notice that I was responsible for a portion of this work was incredibly frustrating.

It is my recommendation that the City of La Crosse review their practices for notifying homeowners of these types of projects, if in fact homeowners are required to pay part of the costs associated. Thank

you. Appreciate it. There are no other speakers for this agenda item. So by unanimous consent, can we close public session? Thank you.

Mister Gallagher, would you like to, address the counsel at all?

Yes. Thank you, chair. So for those who haven't maybe on this committee or on the council been through the fun process of levying special assessments, that's what we're dealing with here. This item is regarding water main. The next item is regarding, curb and gutter for onetime assessment for the first time that those items are installed.

The process, as spelled out by municipal code, is that, if there are two or more properties in any given block that do not have a sewer main in front of them or a water main in front of them, it's the utility's job to install a new main and to then partially assess for that work. There are formulas dictated from the code exactly that spell out the size of the property, which street the property is facing, and how much is assessed. With water in particular, there's a portion of the main that's assessed and then what's called the water service, and that includes a breakdown of the one inch copper line, the corp stop, and the curb stop. So every property that will now be hooked up to a new water main is responsible for that portion plus an amount that's capped, a $14 per foot cost for the water main itself. I guess I'll quickly note that the actual cost to the water utility was about $76 per lineal foot for the main.

So, really, it's just recuperating or recouping a portion of that cost. This is pretty much a practice that we've always done for water, for sewer, and for first time curb and gutter installation. The reason it didn't happen on the Luma Street project was because that was existing water main. Anytime we replace it or upsize it, that's a cost that goes directly to the utility. Anytime it's the first time installation, that's when per code staff puts together an estimate and follows the policy of going through the clerk's office to notify about the assessment process.

So that's what brings us here today. I'm certainly able to answer any questions, about it. The discrepancy in the well, not discrepancy. Sorry. The difference in the cost was explained to miss Krueger about the actual distance from the stop out to the main.

And that's just something we see on every project because a site is closer typically to where the main is on one side of the street and further away on the other, and that's just kind of the way the code is written. That's something that could change. And speaking to the notices, this is a project that was originally, I believe, funded with TID in 2023. It turned into a two year project. We built Moore in 2024 and finished Onalaska Avenue last year in 2025. So it was all bid as one project. So we don't prepare final numbers until the project is over. Certainly, the first notice that goes doesn't always mention assessments. That's something we're looking at refining. A lot of times, we don't always know the scope.

But we do always include information about if you have questions about your own private utilities, to call the utility office. If you have questions about Xcel Energy, to contact Xcel. We do always include the project manager's name and number and email on that so that if they have any questions, they can call them. But the notice that went out that had the incorrect number on it, can't really speak to. That's the notice that came from the clerk's office. The clerk's office is required to do a public notice to publish it in the trib and then also to email I'm sorry, to snail mail, every property that's in the project limits. So, again, if there are any questions about this, I can speak to those. But overall, that is the process we go through.

Councilmember Sos Nicol?

Matt, we're hearing from several people, at least the initial letter, really did not indicate that there would be any cost for the individual property owner. And I find it hard to believe that that should not be included right up front because it's known that that's going to happen, although the exact amount isn't going to be maybe down the road. So I guess that should just be a given from now on that that's done.

Yeah. I I can't speak to why. I can tell you the person in charge of the utilities has been gone for a year. And, you know, it's not an excuse, but an explanation. You know, this fell under the the deputy director position that I don't have right now. So this is certainly something that when we can get ahead of it, we do. We prefer to put it out at the same time as the bid and not do this after the fact. The point's well taken. That's something that should be included first.

Yeah. I would definitely encourage that. I, as a council member, hear about communication issues across the board for different things. And I can totally understand constituents being concerned about finding out after the fact that they're responsible for money. So again, I would definitely encourage that to be reevaluated and improved upon in the future. Thank you.

Yep, certainly. And in speaking with finance, I guess we'll add that any cost that gets approved for full assessments, wouldn't be really in effect until 2027. This is something that once final figures are approved, gets sent to the finance department. If if no plan is determined by October, that's the time at which finance would begin adding it to the next year's tax bill. The default is a ten year repayment plan. They have the option to do a fifteen year repayment if they'd like to to spread it out. Because if if no one has that sort of cash on hand or doesn't wanna carry that debt, they could pay it up front or they could put it on a plan.

Councilmember McKaylo?

Thank you, madam chair. Matt, if it gets on a ten year plan, does the city the city doesn't charge interest on that, do they? It's just The finance department, I

believe, sets an interest rate based on what the bond borrowing rate was, which is typically between two and a half to 3%. I believe the last few years, it's been three.

Okay. Yeah. Alright. Thank you. And, again, that's

not to recoup. I wanna clarify just for the record. It's not to recoup tax money. This is ultimately something that goes to the utility to help offset the burden that the rest of the ratepayers pay for. So this wasn't tax funded. This was utility funded.

Is there any other questions for council or director Gallagher? And

think that's

I think,

know,

board.

December will actually be what they need to watch for sometime this year when finance generates those. And that is when they have the option to choose full lump sum, ten year, or fifteen year. So that one is more clear, and that will have the exact refined number. So at this point, it's considered the estimate, but it is sometimes a frightening number. But it also needed clarification that it's not due this January 31.

It will be a year from now when those changes will be made. And depending on what their options are, whether ten, 15, or the lump sum would be due maybe in October year, but the letter will be clear at that point. So I spent a good amount of time researching this to understand it myself because it is rather complex. Thank you.

Is there any further further discussion? We need a motion to put this on the floor. Councilmember Jansen? I would move to adopt. Thank you. Councilmember Kalo seconds. Councilmember Jansen puts it on the agenda. Councilmember Kalo seconds. Any discussion? Move forward with the vote.

And that motion passes. Four yes, one no. Moving on to agenda item number 25 dash one three nine nine, resolution authorizing public improvement and levying special assessments against benefited property in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Curb and gutter at 1,600. This, item is noticed for public hearing.

Can I

have a

motion for a public hearing, please? Council member Jansen moves, council and member Northwood seconds. Thank you. All in favor or we are in public hearing. And our first speaker is William Herbert.

And, William, if you can just hit that little button there and state your name and your municipality.

My name is William Herbert. I live at 1623 Moore Street in the city of La Crosse, Wisconsin. I appreciate the time and energy that you are putting towards this issue. I want everyone here to know that I've submitted a letter to the city engineer expressing my opposition to the special assessment of 1600 Moore Street curb and gutter. This also affects the property of Linda Pompou at 2100 Onalaska Avenue and Hunter and Maddie Adams at 2040 Onalaska Avenue.

My objection relates to three items, lack of transparency and misleading information of the future home of the future homeowner cost resulting from the street project. Number two, lack of ability to have open discussion regarding placement of curb and gutter on 1600 Moore Street prior to the street project, approval. And number three, timeliness of notice and distribution of the special assessment letter. Several of the people, the speakers before me, have already addressed that, the announcement of the street project had nothing to do or said anything about special assessments being assessed. And quite conversely, when I spoke with our alderwoman of this District 1 and also the lead city engineer with a meeting with some of the residents of the 1600 Block.

It was told to us that it would be done based on grants and other funding through the city. At no point in time was a special assessment mentioned. In my letter to the city engineer, I also brought up the fact that the property owners, have been paying the storm water runoff fee since 07/14/2011 On Street that on a street that had no curb and gutter. This was a quarterly fee of $13.48. With some with some quick math, I estimated that each property paid $700.96 for stormwater runoff, into gutters that did not exist on this block.

I'm asking the committee that they vote against this special assessment or, at the very least, that credit be given to the property properties that were charged this fee for stormwater runoff over a period of thirteen years on a street that had no curb and gutter. And I gave more details to the letter I wrote to city engineer, and I was hoping that maybe if anybody wants more information, they can ask him for a copy of that letter. I would also propose that if the committee does vote to pursue this, that they vote for 0% interest for those households that choose yearly payment plan option. Thank you.

Thank you. Excuse me, mister Herbert. Herbert, one of our council members has a question.

Well, not a question, but would you would you be able to get that letter to the council too? I guess I would like to see that for Thursday night. Or you could, Matt. Okay. Alright. Thank you.

Yep. Yep. Thank you.

Thank you, mister Herbert. Next on the up to speak is Hunter Adams. If you could just speak your name and your municipality.

Sure. Hunter Adams. I'm 2040 Onalaska Avenue. K. This is my first time here as well, and I think my position and points are gonna be really similar to what we've already heard tonight.

But, yeah, my wife and I moved here almost two years ago, and it felt like moving into the Northside would have been one of the more affordable places to live in La Crosse. And we wanna be a part of that community, and my wife is a teacher in the Northside Elementary building. So we chose that neighborhood because it was meaningful for her to be close to her students. So I'm here tonight to respectfully object to the proposed assessment related to the curb, gutter, and sidewalk on the project in Moore Street. I understand that the city's authority to complete public improvements and levy special assessments exists, but my concern is not whether they can do this, but whether the way the cost has been allocated and how it and when it was communicated is fair and reasonable.

The Moore Street project was completed over a year over a year ago, at least a portion on our streets. And until very recently, residents received no indication that we would be billed for it. And speaking with a lot of my neighbors, many believed based on how the project was discussed that grant funding would cover the costs. At no point did we understand that homeowners would later receive a lump sum assessment. In discussions with their older women, I now understand that special assessments are standard with new curb and gutter installations.

So if that was known in advance, it seems like poor practice that residents were never communicated that that was going to be something we'd have to pay for in the future before the construction began. The letter was received the letter we received suggests that we have an opportunity to object, but the work's already complete so that opportunity just feels really symbolic at this point. And as recent homeowners, the only communication we received, and we moved in almost two years ago at this point, was a letter from Gerke that was telling us the timeline of the project and nothing about any financial impact. So for our household, this assessment comes on top of a 25% tax increase this year, and sudden costs like this are really hard to absorb. So I I also question whether the primary this project primarily benefits the general public rather than a special benefit proportional to the cost of our individual owners.

When we purchased our home, it was missing the curve along the entire side, and that made difference to us on the purchase price. So when I think about special assessment adding value for us, that really didn't matter in our real estate search. So I'm asking the council to consider whether this assessment fairly reflects the benefits of homeowners, whether cost associated with this general public benefit can be reallocated, and whether there are options to reduce the burden on affected residents. I also have a few other broader questions. Why was there a year long gap between project completion and the communication on this assessment?

Were there any alternatives considered instead of having to levy a special assessment in this place? And just asking for future projects, could this financial burden be communicated ahead of time for future residents of streets where this is happening. Thank you for this for the time and considering the real impact this is having on working families and long term residents in our neighborhood. Thank you.

Thank you, mister Adams. We appreciate you being on the North Side. Yeah. With that, we'll close public session. Is there can I have a motion to put this on the floor? Council member Northwood motions. Can I get a second? Second by council member Jansen. Mister Gallagher, would you like to step up to the podium? Is that for approval? The motion to approve. Yep.

Thank you, chair. I appreciate the opportunity to speak and provide some info. For clarity, I can provide some information to the committee to straighten out some of the things you've heard. There were no grants on this project. The the nonutility costs were basically paid for by TID. As I mentioned before, that was TID 13, the quick trip TID, which did pay for all of the pavement, paid for all the sidewalk. Sidewalk is not being assessed. We haven't done that since 2017, 2018. So, really, the only assessment we're looking at for this item is the curb and gutter. That's per lineal foot of footage, which is our practice.

That's based on the actual cost, which, was between 20 and $21 per lineal foot directly from the contractor. In speaking to the issue of storm, I do wanna clarify that storm charges or ERUs are based upon lots and lot sizes and impervious area on the private side. A storm water fee has nothing to do with stuff that falls in the street or in public right of way. Just wanted to make sure that that's known to everybody. As far as the process, certainly, we hear frequently that things aren't transparent or people didn't know.

I do know that the PM was able to speak to mister Herbert. I do know that there are times when we go through a green complete streets review and times when CIP projects come before this committee, before the planning commission, and before the council. So, certainly, there are many times that people could speak against curb and gutter. I certainly don't wanna give the impression that nobody can speak against it or try to kill a project because there is already a very good existing process for that. Lastly, we have been following the code.

If the code needs to change and if the clerk needs to send us a notice earlier or if we need to amend that process, that's something that certainly can change. But we've been following our policy and practice so far, and haven't deviated from that. If anyone has any questions on this, I'm happy to answer them.

Councilmember Jansen?

So, mister Gallagher, are you saying that there's nothing in writing that says that we should be notifying people immediately when this project comes up that they might be assessed?

No. There's not. Essentially, we have to prepare, the process spells out that in order to assess, it shall go through a special report to the board of public works that An initial estimate shall be prepared and shared with finance to be double checked. And then once it goes through the Board of Public Works, it then is set up for a public hearing at F and P. And then that's when the notice is placed in the Tribune and when the notices are sent to every homeowner that's on the rolls.

So, again, it's on us that this was late. The practice is usually to do it at the time of the bid or before it. Again, the final numbers weren't calculated because this was a two year project and it just closed out here this winter. That just happened to be the unfortunate timing. But, yes, the process for assessment is that the clerk sends a notice once the initial estimate is made.

I guess what I'm asking for clarification is though that that very first letter that goes out saying, hey, this is what our we're planning to redo the current Yes. Gutter or Yes. Is there do you need something such as a resolution to state that you need

No. To provide

That's just on us to put that in. I'm talking specifically about the notice notice for assessment, but certainly in the notices about the upcoming project, that's something that we continue to evolve. There have been times that a lot of information is on that. Like I mentioned earlier, private utilities and talking to Excel or contacting the utilities office. It's just a matter of making sure that all those are clear so that they know is there traffic calming? Is there a sidewalk? Is this pavement only? Will there be utility work? That sort of thing. That was just missed two years ago.

Any other discussion? I have a question. You've said that this project took two years, so that's why they some of the reason they got late notice. Do we not have an idea of how much a project's gonna cost even though it's lasting a year or two? The city doesn't know how much that project will cost?

We don't know the final figures for the materials that are actually placed until the work is done. So until we know the lineal footage, for example, of one inch copper lead pipe that's put in for a service, we don't know how much is done. So that's why we don't prepare final until, you know, we know what the bid price is and what's in the ground. When we do come before the board or the public works and before FNP before the project is done, it's what council president Dickinson said. It's just an estimate. The final doesn't come through regardless until the work is completed. This is just a case where it didn't happen in advance of the project. So, no, we never know the final cost until the project's done.

And that's not what I asked. I asked if we have an idea of what a project's gonna cost. So do we have an estimate what we think it's gonna

cost? Yes.

So we could send out a letter with an estimate for these homeowners

Yes.

And telling them it's just an estimate so they would know way in advance.

Right. And and that's what I mentioned. We like to do these typically up front. This was not done prior to the project. This particular project.

Okay. Thank you, Yep. Director Any other discussion? Council member Kahlo.

It's not a question for director Gallagher. And I don't know who could answer this, but, is it possible for counsel, because it appears that folks didn't have notice of this when maybe it would have been timely. Is there a way that this council could approve a zero interest as one of the, speakers asked for. And I don't know that anyone is here. I'm looking around going, I don't think anyone can answer that for me.

Chad stepped out. Yeah. He left early, but I can send that to him if

you want.

Okay. Because we see that for Thursday? Is that an option? I guess maybe we would just like to know that if they can spread that out in their tax bill for fifteen years tax free or interest free, I mean. Sorry. Not tax free. Thank you.

Council member Bedford?

Director Gallagher, I don't know if you know this off the top of your head, but do you know the ordinance numbers that you you followed? You said you're you're following the ordinance on this, so I was just hoping to get in there and and look over some of that before Thursday if I if I can manage.

Sure. There are four different ones, and I don't have everyone in front of me. For water it's 4638. For sewer assessments, it's 4674. There are two others. One that spells out the assessment process in general and then one that deals with general assessments like street curb and gutter and other things. And then there's actually one for alleys. I'm sorry. There's a fifth. We assess for alleys as well. I can get you those prior to Thursday. That'd be wonderful. Thank you. Sure.

Any other discussion? With that, we'll call the vote. And that agenda item fails with two noes and three abstentions. And I was alerted earlier by director Fransen that there is no collective bargaining update. So with that, I'll call this meeting adjourned. Thank you. Appreciate your time.