Sustainability and Resiliency Task Force - Regular Meeting

Just waiting on one more, I think. Good evening, guys.

Hello.

Do you know Brenda confirmed your attendance? Let's see. Already going to meeting order at 632 PM. Hold the order. Pressure, David. You're muted, but I saw you say presence. Oliver present or present meal.

Dale Krasner, Treasure Island, present.

Brenda. Brenda Krebs, Harbor Island, present.

Thank you. Good evening, Christina. Good evening, Frank. Good evening, Roger. Good evening, Johnny.

Good evening, everyone.

Good evening.

All right, moving on to approval of meeting minutes. We do not have them. Are we utilizing AI for them?

No, I provided them to Isabel. There was an email issue. I'd emailed to her like three times. I sent it to the mayor, and then she sent it to Isabel, but I don't know what happened in the process. But would you like to... I would propose, I guess, that we could approve... the September, I mean, yeah, the September and the October at next month's meeting, I guess, if that's acceptable, since everyone, everybody have time to look at them.

Yep. Yeah, we'll just push it over. All right, moving on to old business. So we have a very light agenda. We'll start off with Roger, update on the stormwater master plan.

I'm actually going to hand it over to Christina. Thank you. Christina, she's taking the lead on coordinating with our consultants over the course of the last month. So she will have the most up-to-date information to share with the task force.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, sure. So as Roger mentioned, I'll be taking over the stormwater master plan updates for the next month. I don't have a formal presentation for this month, but I plan to have something brief. There are not a lot of updates since last time. The biggest update right now is that there will be a stormwater workshop on November 13th. And the agenda should be published about a week before. We did get a win. We have an easement that's been acquired by the city. So our consultant is starting to work their calculations for an outfall around that easement. That's in North Bay Island, I believe. But other than that, no updates from the stormwater master plan.

Quick correction there. Sorry. Quick correction there. That easily. Yeah, it's Treasure Island. Treasure Island. Yeah.

Yeah. 1850 Treasure Island.

1850. Dave has a question.

Yeah, hi. Hi, Christine. It was nice seeing you at the Biscayne Bay Watershed Management Advisory Board. Thank you for showing up. What is this meeting on November 13th, and what time should we block? Is this appropriate for us? And if so, what time should we block off on our calendar?

Yes, I think it would be beneficial for you guys to attend. I believe it should be 6 p.m., We can send you a formal invite once we get a little bit closer to the date. So it'll go a little more in depth in the challenges of the stormwater master plan. And our consultant BCC will be present to give updates. So you get to ask them questions directly as well. I believe Arduro will be present as well. They're the one that did some work on our outfalls. So it's really a great opportunity for us to connect with the task force and, you know, other residents and get their input.

Great. And that's on November 13?

November 13. Yeah.

Dave, this is Roger. Just to append what Christina mentioned, it's not really, it shouldn't be considered a stormwater master plan update. It's really an infrastructure workshop where you all can provide your input and just listen in and get up to date on, like Christina said, all the challenges. facing the execution of the stormwater master plan and the way how it relates to the rest of the infrastructure that are being planned for the village. So this is definitely one of those workshops that I would encourage the task force to attend and have prepared questions and get up to date on.

Is there any information that you guys are seeking from the residents, like vulnerable areas from what we see, you know, walking from day to day. Is there anything on that and that you guys are going to be looking for from residents? Like what type of feedback?

That feedback would be very helpful. You know, I had the opportunity, I'm glad I had the opportunity to be here to observe the sunny day, king tide flooding over the last month. So, you know, I have a better real life experience with that now. But yes, no, we absolutely will welcome any feedback from residents because I'm sure that some of the information that we're going to share will be things that will that will have real um feedback from more residents on one of the things that um that will be discussed that will be brought up um if not discussed in detail um will be the the need to raise roads especially around treasure island and north of the island as part of the stormwater master plan and the resiliency upgrades to the village. So that will directly affect, you know, every resident who owns a home on Treasure Island, especially on, you know, East, West, and South Treasure Drive.

Yeah, and to add to that, this workshop... No, I was just going to say the workshop is really a chance for us to bring awareness to the extent of work that needs to be done to, you know, to accomplish the stormwater master plan. Right. Dave?

From a former resident of Miami Beach who has done this, I applaud you for engaging with the community early on because I've seen areas in Miami Beach that were on track for road raisings. And a small subsection of residents got really noisy and really loud. And they basically stopped the entire area from getting upgrades. And there was a lot of... concern, right, about what would about what would happen, whether that's going to push water into their roads, whatever, or into their homes and whatever, but giving them the opportunity to engage early is real, like, you're really going to need to make sure that we speak to everybody before you start talking about a road raising project.

Thanks, Dave. I appreciate that feedback. We definitely want to avoid inconveniencing or reduce the amount of inconveniencing that this project will have on the residents. And we definitely want to take a measured approach to that portion of the infrastructure upgrades.

And if you ever wanted to understand what worked and did not work and what may have been a better path in hindsight, I know the community outreach folks in the city of Miami Beach and maybe they can provide some hints on what to expect and how they were able to successfully communicate with people and maybe how to avoid some pitfalls that they ran into because It became a huge thing. And there was a start, a big push for it. And then everybody went up in arms and then pushed back and everything stopped for a couple of years. And then it's back on. So, you know, a small but vocal crowd can really mess you up.

Yeah, we have a meeting with them a week before. So it's perfect. We'll definitely, Miami Beach that is, we'll definitely talk to their team about that.

Dave, did the residents have a concern that the roads being raised would cause more flooding for their homes?

Yes. Okay. You know, streets are an impervious surface. And so whatever hits the streets, you know, the streets are supposed to kind of be lower than the homes. And so if you raise the homes, sorry, raise the roads by a certain level, what happens to that water? That is the big concern. And, you know, in some of these areas where we don't have any swales for water retention, we have to answer and address those because we don't want the water spilling. Everybody wants the water to go off of their property into the street. And that's not the way we really should be doing it. because of pollution and fertilizer and dog poop and all that stuff so the question that the stormwater engineering team uh is going to need to be prepared for is what are we doing what happens to the water um and if the roads are going to be two feet uh then that and that puts them at the you know that means that their cars could be flooded They are also going to be concerned about harmonization between their homes and their driveways and what their property looks like and a higher road, right? Like, are they going to have a dip to get onto their driveway? So that harmonization and how we make it look nice is going to be, is probably going to be a big question that comes up. And so one of the things that I... In Miami Beach, we actually did have some problems in the Sunset Harbor Island area because that was the lowest level build on the island. And the roads, they raised them like... Two or three feet, like significantly. And when it rains, so now people have to step down to get into some of these buildings. And some of them did get flooded because they were basically basements at this point.

Isn't there a pump station? And I see your hand raised, Oliver. Didn't they have a pump station nearby there?

They have a pump station nearby. And Maurice Gibbs, they have a pump station opposite the Publix. The problem was that, I'll just use one business example, Sardinia, Italian restaurant. All of these restaurants, Barcelona, all of them, like David just said, they became basically basements. You step down three or four feet. So when these businesses got flooded, they applied for insurance claims And the claims were denied for whatever reason that the insurance companies claimed it was not something that was the fault of the city of Miami Beach. So they still have that issue with all of those low-lying businesses on Purdy AF. are literally three to four feet below grade. And that was something that really wasn't taken into consideration. They did put in drains at the new floor elevation level, but it still doesn't cure the problem that they created. I think, David, you're also referring to, it was some of the more inclusive neighborhoods, North Bay Road, things like that, where the water was intruding back on the people's properties, as you said. And they said that they basically created a problem that they never had before. And they're the ones that put up the fuss that raising the roads created a problem. It didn't alleviate anything.

Well, and so just to speak on those terms, I think a couple of things. One is those are old buildings, right? And those buildings, they're just, what are you going to do? You know, you're going three feet up. The water was running off of the sidewalks and off of the roofs and coming down into their walls. three foot, three steps down, right, area. The answer, the ideal answer is to have water storage, I think. This is not, I'm not an engineer, so now I'm above my pay grade, but I have learned a lot. Miami Beach's whole approach was get the water off the street and get it off the island by pumping it out. Hindsight, what I think would have been a better option would have been to figure out how to store the water on or under the land and allow it to percolate down, right? What Miami Beach did was they put, here's the old road. They just put a whole bunch of gravel and then put a new road, right? That three foot delta, if there had been channels underneath the road or underneath the median for the water to go in and then you allow it to drain down through a pervious surface, then it will actually push out saltwater intrusion from under the island. And why is that important? I don't really know, but I think that the, because we're not getting our drinking water from there, but, you know, a lot of these buildings, they have big metal rods and saltwater is corrosive. And so if we were able to keep a fresh water table underneath and avoid to the best extent possible us pumping our whatever is on the road into the bay, we are going to have a much healthier Biscayne Bay. The cost of the pollution controls necessary to filter the water is extremely high and so in Miami Beach they compromised the pollution controls for a cost and they did not use injection wells to address the first flush which is the first inch and a half of rain, which contains the most amount of pollutants, chemical runoff, oils, tire particles, all of that stuff. And so now, because they identified, well, because big plumes of black dirt was going out and it looked like a diesel engine visible from the high rises, they are now going back and retrofitting to add injection wells. So the more we can keep on the island, get it off the roads, but keep it on the island and allow it to drain down naturally, I think the better.

I agree.

Oliver? Yeah, I'm so glad we have Dave, Neil, Alicia, everybody here is experienced with the issues they ran into in Miami Beach. And we can learn a lot from those mistakes. I just want to point out two things, I guess, a little bit different in North Bay Village that we all know about. We have a lot of new buildings planned. And I think the codes... You know, have obviously all the retention of those new buildings have to retain their stormwater on site. That's just a modern requirement. But I don't know, I can't remember the last time I looked at it, I was a little concerned about how it deals with future crown of road. And I don't know if we want to just kind of at some point check with Sylvia, talk a little bit about that issue, even though some of the plans have been approved for these site plans. But we still have lots of new future plans coming up to make sure that these new big buildings coming right off of 79th Street Causeway, they're designed so that they're not, you know, what? You're putting the Crown Road up here? We didn't know that. We put our plans in. They were approved. And, you know, just as a future possibility, I think that's important to make sure that is addressed in our planning part of our code. And then the second issue, just to bring up for, you know, you're having this meeting and we're bringing up all these things for you guys to think about and for everybody to talk about at the meeting. You know, this is going to be the first probably of several as we get into complex issues like raising roads. is the fact that North Bay Village is a little different than Miami Beach. It's very small. And like I kind of jokingly point out, we have this future seawall kind of part of our code and studies that we've done over the past years that I think require a seven and a half foot requirement for the base seawall that then can support another think two and a half feet of seawall on top of that to accommodate sea level rise future proofing the island because if we don't have that kind of thinking and communicating with the whole community like we're basically want to make sure everybody knows we don't want to build a bowl we don't want to build have these sea walls all around us we want to have planning so that we can actually intelligently build up the the uh the roads and the houses eventually and it's going to be a gradual long-term process but just planting those seeds with the community so that we know we're all on the same page together, wanting to keep our island, as per the title of this task force, sustainable and resilient.

I think one of the things, Oliver, to keep in mind is that the county's impervious surface ordinance is on hold because of SB 180. And so I think your point is really important that the new construction should know what we are planning on having, right? Because SB 180 hopefully is going to get fixed this session. But I think having those conversations with the developers now about this is what we're looking to do and yeah, your seawalls are going to need to be this, but that's because everything else is going to be this and this and this and this. So you should plan for that. So by having those metrics and statistics and also expressing the goal that we need you to keep your water on premise is going to be really important because most of these buildings don't have any green space around them today. And so how they deal with their water, they're going to be expecting that that water can just go into the drains. But we also had problems with connecting those buildings to the drains because who's supposed to pay for it? And now you lose control of what goes in the drains, right? Because then you have all of the swill and the sludge from dumpsters that they're washing off. And so we have to be really careful about connecting private property. We learned those lessons in Miami Beach. Sounds like a great idea. What people don't recognize is the kind of pollutants that are going to go into the stormwater system, and we have to avoid that. And keeping it out of the system makes our pollution control system operations much cheaper.

I just want to add that you guys have made really great, valid points. And we'll definitely keep that in mind as we built the agenda. But we highly encourage you to come to the stormwater workshop. We will address some of those points that you told us. And also, you'll get to find out which islands are getting injection wells, which maybe should get injection wells. So you'll definitely get more detail during the workshop.

Great. I hope this conversation kind of made sure that you hit all, you know, you have all of the, I'm sure you had almost all of them, if not all of them marked and written down. So great. I'm looking forward to it.

So this is Frank. Let me point out a couple of things. One is there's a constant dialogue between FDOT and the causeway and the developers all along the causeway. So there's issues that both sides have to resolve. water only being one of them. The other thing is, is like on our main drags, like on West Drive and East Drive, they are through Roger and Christina. Those developers are connecting with the people that are doing the stormwater projects there. So we had a conversation today that I sent an email to Roger that the developer was not even aware of the projects that are coming on Harbor Island with the stormwater. And there's a property that they have that has a outfall that flows right through where their building is going to go. And they're trying to come up with a way to reroute that. And I told them that may go away completely. And I sent Roger an email and said, listen, you need to get hooked up with these guys. They're civil engineers with our engineers that are doing the design for the, uh, island so that they can talk to each other and see how those things are going to be resolved. So we're not trying to stay in a vacuum here. We are constantly in contact with these developers, not just on the environmental issues, but the electrical issues. I mean, you name it, what the impacts are on the village with these big buildings going up. And so it's good. I mean, the committee, I think this board is great. to keep bringing these things up and keeping everybody on their toes. But I want to assure you with the two people that we brought on board as our employees that these things are being looked at very closely.

Thank you. Thank you, Roger. Thank you, Christina. Does anybody else have any questions on this?

Just real quick, just curious, Frank, maybe you can bring this up later, but I was just curious if you, on North Bay Island, if there's been, you've had discussions with the attorney for the owner of the property that you need permission from for the easement?

Yes, those discussions are ongoing. I am hopeful that we can reach an amicable agreement on how to obtain that land.

Okay. The city does have an easement, though, right? Already of a right-of-way. We...

There's a setback.

A setback, yeah. Oh, gotcha.

You follow me? But, listen, one way or another, we've got to get it. I mean, we're ready to award the contract for the pump station. And I don't have a place to put the electrical panels.

So the setback is, yeah, you need an easement in the setback. Gotcha. Okay.

I'm glad you're dealing with that. We need an easement. No, that's no problem. But we're working on it. And Commissioner Schiavone is also involved in dealing with Mr. Singh. And we're trying to work something out, you know. Not a lot of options. But we're working on it.

All right. Moving on to item 3B. It's update on retail installation effort at Bogle Park Dock. It's not at the dock. I presented to the commission on a living seawall initiative. And this is in partnership with Reef Arches, Breezy Permits, APH Green Construction, and Coral Morphologic with Collin Ford. Am I able to share my screen so I can show you guys kind of a little bit more visually? I don't see the option. Do I need permission from you, Johnny, to be able to share?

You should be able to share.

Should be on the bottom of your window.

You're also a co-host, so you have full power.

Yeah, I... Shares in Docs, Share Notes, Start Video, no? Ah, here we go.

Let's see if there's anything else.

All right, while I'm trying to figure this out, we've got full commission support for this Living Sea Law Initiative. And basically, we are going to have a marine garden. I sent you guys some content. I don't know why it's not letting me share it. Open system set. All right, can you guys see? So what we are planning on doing is installing these reef tiles, which can host sponges, bivalves, and corals, which you see on the second row, are already proven. And I just got confirmation that we are also going to have a hybrid habitat sponsored for us as well that was developed by APH Marine Construction. Give you a little better view on it. And it's pretty incredible bringing together. And I think it is really important, especially given the related group initiative where they're going to be doing a living seawall initiative as well. And I would like this to provide a framework of what the standards are and what defines a true living seawall. So for this, not only would it be supporting the ecosystem, it would be cleaning the bay water. So attaching sponges and bivalves, which was recommended by the marine biologist, Colin Ford, instead of just doing exclusively corals, we need to clean the waters and we need to create that balance back again. So the statistics on sponges and bivalves is at least one bivalve and one sponge can filter at least 50 gallons of water a day. And what the goal is, is to have at least 100 tiles and one of these hybrid habitats installed onto the wall. So doing a little quick math on that, if we had around three organisms per tile, that's around 300 natural organisms, we could have I'd say 200 gallons of seawater filtered every hour and annually 1.8 million gallons of water each year. So I think this would be a really great pilot project to start being able to identify technologies that are actually going to be supporting and cleaning our Bay's ecosystem and the Bay's water. Here's another cute little rendering. We're only getting one, we wouldn't be getting multiple. And then in those planters, we have spoken to a couple of mangrove growers. And apparently, there is a miniature red mangrove, since there is a lot of back and forth when it comes to maintaining or cutting mangroves. And with these, they wouldn't be impeding on the view or needing a lot of maintenance. And then another thing that the APH Marine Construction has done is also kind of figuring out a way if ever needed to trim the mangroves, there is a way to trim the mangroves. So a person may trim mangroves without a PMT if mangroves are not on the property and mangroves are less than 10 feet in height as measured from substrate to top of canopy. Another great thing about this is it's not touching the sea floor. So that doesn't activate a lot of protocols, like let's just say with FWC, DEP, a few other things. So this, I think, is a very easy pilot project to do. And we can start collecting data on this and being the first city to be able to champion you know a living seawall so I wanted you guys's take on it if you have any other partners you think that should be in on this you know and then of course I would like to add an element of education for schools and programs and I've already approached a couple of people that could do an augmented reality so people don't have to go into the water to observe this they can just scan a QR code and be able to interact with the different species that this would support, some numbers on what, you know, the impact that the seawall will have, you know, so on and so forth. So there's the other one. And there's also, DEP, NOAA universities are already doing programs like this too. So they're using recycled oyster shells, they're using oyster reef restoration, sponge transplant trials. And then another thing with the marine biologist Colin Ford, he has the proper certifications to be able to harvest these organisms and place them onto the tiles. So I'll give you a quick briefing on the process. Colin Ford would be doing an in-water biological assessment to ensure that we are placing the correct organisms. Um, then once we have the 50, well, 50 to a hundred reef tiles fully sponsored, uh, we would have con go in and attach them. And if needed, he would host them in his lab and then that's it.

Madam Chair, could I add to that for a moment?

Absolutely. I can't see you guys because I'm sharing my screen. So if anybody has their hands raised, just talk.

Yeah, I was going to say, since we were both at that meeting, first of all, your presentation to commission was very well presented. As you said, they all took a vote that they were enthusiastic about this project. That's as far as the vote goes, just the enthusiasm for it. There was some, not pushback, there was some concern by someone on commission that is this gonna take up those resources, financial, man hours, things like that. I think that Madam Chair gave them you know, an honest review of how this project would have very little impact. I know Frank also was there and Roger. So I think what they're waiting for at this point Madam Chair, is for you to take the next step in providing them with really the concrete numbers. This is what it would take. This is the final cost. This is what we're looking for the village to finance or get behind. This is something that may be funded by private resources like FIU or whatever. I think that's the next step that they're looking for is filling in some of the concerns on their part that you're not throwing a project on the village where they feel that the expression that was used was we're already stretched thin on projects, that it would not have a negative impact on the village, that it would have a positive. So, you know, I don't know the numbers and what you need to get back to them, but I think presenting phase two of filling in those unknowns is going to go a long way towards making this happen.

Yeah, I mean, I think they all said that they don't want to divert any funds in which I completely understand. And I think this project is, in my opinion, I think I didn't want to approach any more sponsors until I got the support of the commission to approach more private sponsorships. Right now, we already have like 20,000 of this comp. We have a permitting specialist. We have the contractor. We have the ecological technology donated as well. And then the work of a marine biologist. So I don't want to go to the village and ask for any money. I completely understand that we need as much of our resources conserved towards infrastructure and many other things. So we could get the funding on this. I can identify it. And if you guys want to bring in or suggest anybody else, that would be greatly appreciated. I would say around maybe we need to have $13,000 more sponsored and I can send you guys all the numbers on it. Yeah.

Oh, Dave, do you have your hand up? Oh, his hand is left. Go ahead, Oliver. Go ahead. Yeah. I just was curious. I'm really excited. I love the presentation. It seems very, very interesting, very exciting. And the fact that you've got some funding already and I can try to help, you know, either contribute a little bit or help out fine people. But the question is how... How are you, are you doing this like sort of on your own or is this through, is there some agency, some nonprofit that, or, because the city sounds like they're like, nah, we don't want to deal with this. You guys figure it out. You know, maybe they'll contribute some of the resources and time from the staff that we need kind of reluctantly, but we can probably, we can probably get it out of them. But how are you, once you get these funds, how are, like what's the official mechanism for writing checks and getting all the logistics done through?

Great question. I didn't, I wasn't thinking of going directly like through the village to like have the donations made to them. But just like having the private sponsors give the checks directly to the providers. I think that would be the simplest form and then they get to us in the project. That's what I'm thinking. That might be just the simplest, easiest way and not creating more work for the village. The only things that I would probably need from the village is just like surveys or maybe writing off on when we submit permit applications, something as simple as that. But everything else is going to be handled. And I would want the task force to participate in this as well. But I... presented this to commission and vice mayor Gorham Cook was very nice enough to sponsor this and put it on the agenda. And I just wanted to get this off and running as soon as possible because the timing of related group also saying that they want to do a living seawall initiative, I want to make sure that we have that 114 linear feet of seawall to be as living and as effective as possible. So I thought that this would be a great opportunity to set the standard and we can even come up with what truly defines a living seawall. I know they have to meet the requirements of the Clean Marina Program with DEP. And again, I think that it truly being a living seawall that it cleans the bay, that it actually restores the ecosystem the correct way, and that's why I wanted to bring in a marine biologist to advise us correctly, because when I first was looking over it, we were only looking at corals. He's like, you need sponges, you need bivalves. I'm like, holy crap, yes. Like, this is, this sounds better, and I want, you know, I think having a marine biologist should be the way of developing or implementing living seawalls. So... And as a task force, I would really like for us to truly define what a living seawall is. And I really need your guys' support on this.

Awesome.

All right. So I have a couple of questions here. So I heard a couple of things. One is that we're going to put mangroves in a pot. If they're not going to touch the ocean floor and they're never going to grow down to the ocean floor, what value are they bringing to the ecosystem besides a place for birds to rest?

So there's going to be holes in the planters, and this is what Colin has suggested. So it could do the natural filtering that it can do. And this is more providing a habitat for birds and it's not the main attraction or the main filtration elements. The reed tiles will be more of hosting the bivalves and sponges, and that'll be doing a lot of cleaning. And then for the mangroves, this is also, giving an opportunity for us to figure out a way that people are not burdened by having to maintain or getting hit with high fines of having to maintain the mangroves. And then the newly discovered species of the dwarf red mangrove could be hosted there too. So that's where we're at with that.

Okay. I've envisioned that probably one of the challenges that we're hearing about with seagrass is that excessive nutrients are driving up algae, blocking the sunlight from hitting the seafloor. I've thought in my mind as a solution forever ago well what if there were planter boxes that were underwater uh where they are only you know two feet right to where they could get the sunlight that they wanted so that they could thrive and then manatees can come eat that seagrass um like a little garden for them So I think that that's super cool. I think Colin is absolutely right about oysters and sponges more so than corals. Corals have a place. Their place is not as much here inside the bay, inside the basin. I think the oysters and all of that probably do a lot more benefit for us. I'm really curious about the long-term monitoring of this. Part of my, I don't want to say hesitation on living seawalls, but part of my question about them is the long-term impact success of these types of projects. These are relatively new technologies, right? And so what does it look like in five years and in 10 years? And so I would be very eager to understand from the manufacturers how they're going to leverage this installation for ongoing research and studies because what they're going to do is this is very smart of them and i i i have no issue with it but what what they are likely doing is they are we are a pilot project where they are going to learn, and they're also going to, we will also be a reference example, right? And so the last thing we want is for somebody to install these reef tiles and say, or mangrove planters or whatever, and then go around and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, our North Bay Village is, you know, we have them installed in North Bay Village, and in 10 years, you know, them say that for the next 10 years without the monitoring. And success metrics, right, for these things. So I'm very eager to understand what the long-term monitoring of these is and, you know, so they can continue to make adjustments to their technologies. And I'm sure that's part of what they're doing. So.

Yeah, for the reef tiles, their other technology is called reef arches and they're protecting the shorelines of spoil islands. And they have seen a huge success of organisms growing on them naturally and not even having to be implanted. But I'll approach them. And I'm sure they're already doing some sort of monitoring. I think they have partnered with one university up in North Florida. And I definitely want to have this monitored, quantified, and actually, you know, are we are we actually playing the bay at the rate that like we are projecting it to be? So I definitely agree with that. And if you guys have anybody that you would recommend universities or anybody that has any programs that are already doing that or anybody that would be interested in it, please.

Well, I think this is, this is, this is something that in, in, in that, that I would imagine that Colin is going to do, but alternatively, I've got some contacts over at both FIU and University of Miami. FIU does have a sponge program. I don't know if they're still doing it. They also have a very strong seagrass program. And University of Miami focuses a bit more on... uh, corals and hatcheries. So depending on what we wanted to do, I would love to see, and I'm sure Colin, uh, has contacts over at these places, but, uh, I think that it would probably be a good idea to have, um, uh, you know, to find out, to have one of those folks as a partner.

Absolutely.

All right. This is Frank again. Let me, let me, Let me point out that the village is not a reluctant partner in this. There are concerns about finances all around. But we have resources now with our chief resilience officer and with our engineer that we have on board. And we are certainly a willing participant in this program. And so I don't want people to think that we're reluctant to participate because that's not the case. And so that's, I want to make that clear. One of the concerns I have on that seawall is I know we have some problems with a couple of batter piles there. So is Roger still on or did he get off? I guess he's off. I don't see him. So Christina, talk to about having an evaluation made on that section of that seawall that we're talking about using, because I think there's a couple of better files that need to be replaced. So I don't want to go through this and then come back and start having a tear into it and put those piles in. I think the Rosensteil Building Institute would be a willing partner. I've dealt a lot with them. when I was the emergency manager and dealing with hurricanes and pontoon bridges going over to Key Biscayne and that type of thing. And I find them pretty innovative and pretty willing to look at things. So I would certainly think that would be a resource to reach out to and present that program because there's a lot of students there that look for projects that they can use through their years while they're there. So I just offer that. Thank you, Frank.

Thank you for the support and information. Thank you.

I was also going to jump in with, I don't think we should forget about Esper down at the University of Miami. We haven't talked to him in a long while. I'm sure he's still upset with what happened with his project over by the Treasures on the Bay, not happening. But Esper, David, and Oliver, before you guys were on board when Denny was still here and we were new on the board, Esper was a regular participant in our meetings and gave us a lot of support. And I think he's, you know, he's like a key player in all these type of projects. So I think if we kind of re- acquainted ourselves with him again and said, here's the next project we'd like to do. I think he also would be a very, you know, impactful help and influence.

Would you? Would you want to approach him, Neil?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I should still have his contact information since we kept going over it. And if not, I can get it. I can get it from across the street. I just forgot his name. But the guy that's heading up trying to get his project installed, which I think is way past deadline. But I think I can hook up with him again and give him a nice hello and kind of bring him up to speed. and tie them back in with us. So I'll do that.

Any other questions on this item? And thank you guys for all the support.

Is there anything you need from us? Do you need a motion? Is everybody cool? We just got to make it all happen. What do you need? What is the ask?

Yeah, I guess we could make a motion to support this initiative, like officializing it. And then I could get a letter of support also from the task force on this. That's about it. I mean, I just would really like your take on this. And if you think that this... Sounds like a good idea. This could be. And my intention is to just define like what a living seawall can be, because now there's a huge push for it. There's I see it in Miami Beach. Alex Fernandez brought up in the last sustainability land use committee meeting. Of how to incentivize these things, and I've also even been looking into it and there's potentially even. exemptions, not homestead exemptions, but agricultural exemptions for doing things like this if you are growing sponges and harvesting them and selling them. So there could potentially even be property tax benefits if we continue to explore into this. So if you guys want to take or champion that as well to see if there's any other way to incentivize this program on a private um, single family resident level, um, that would be great. And then on a developer level, I think developers have enough money to do this, in my opinion, but I would really like to see it more on, um, single family properties. Cause then that's gonna make a true impact if we could get more sponges and biovalves and not technically like with these build-outs, but even like just coming up with maybe putting them in bags off of people's docks, like just continue exploring this of how we can clean the bay and encourage this type of advocacy. So I think that's a mouthful motion. So if anybody would like to...

I don't know what that motion was. I think it was a run-on sentence a little bit. I would make the motion that I encourage North Bay Village leadership to... accept any opportunities to test and deploy living seawall technologies where it makes sense. right, like even a broader conversation, because maybe we have reef arches, you know, there's a number of manufacturers. And if somebody wants to come put a, you know, these living seawall, I mean, they just attach to an existing seawall. It's not even a replacement for a seawall, right? And so if they're not doing damage to our seawalls and they want to hang some planter boxes off, see what happens, you know, when, as long as it's going through the review process. So, you know, even at, you know, even at Civic Park in the future, right? So keeping the, I would broaden the conversation to accepting, you know, accepting any pilot projects which are funded and paid for by, you know, by external sources, right? So I don't know if that's a motion either, but whatever I said at the very beginning.

Okay, so I will second a motion that I wrote down that says, motion of this task force to encourage North Bay Village leadership to support any opportunities to test and deploy living seawall technologies where it makes sense, period. So I second that motion, and now this can be a discussion, right?

Okay.

If there's no discussion, we can just see the vote.

I find that I like Oliver's succinct motion. It's a good follow up. Somebody has to say.

I also approve. As we said, David, the commission has already voted at that meeting the other night. They all are I don't want to say gung-ho. They approved the move forward with this. They're just waiting. They're saying they're not obligating themselves at this time to any specifics as far as who's responsible, funding, things like that. But they all voted that they are in agreement that this is a go.

I agree. I don't even think I need a motion.

Right. So I think David put it very succinctly that it's coming as a full sustainability resilience task force, not that it's just our chair going before the board on her own, that this is an initiative being put forth by the task force toward the village. So I second or third, or I say aye to Oliver's succinct wording.

It was Dave's, but I just copied it.

Hi. Hi.

All right.

Yeah, and I think this is a really good idea because we can then allow us to be the reference account. Right. I've heard the mayor say multiple times in various situations that, you know, she wants to help innovate. And she wants to use our well, this is these are my words, not hers, but our fun size village where we can get stuff done, you know, much easier if we can advance these type of things than it is. We almost have to, right? For the good of the Bay. So thank you for this. And I just really want to see long-term monitoring so that it's not just a sales tool for them.

I agree 100%. We need to quantify it. Yes. Perfect. Thank you so much, you guys. I'm going to move on to the next item, 3C, update on outdoor lighting policy during sea turtle nesting season.

Who's that?

I thought it was Brenda, but maybe she's speaking. She's muted. Brenda's about the lights.

Brenda, we can't hear you. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Say that again. All right.

The update on outdoor lighting policy during sea turtle nesting season.

I think that we had discussed that last time, but I didn't know if Frank or anyone had a chance to check out on East Drive and how that might be going with the... Brenda, we're working on it.

It's not as easy as the one we did on West Drive.

Okay. Well, thank you, Frank.

There's security issues that they're concerned with and liability issues and so forth and so on.

Okay.

But we did good on the West Drive one.

Yes.

And it's been installed and the lights are out.

Beautiful.

And I had them install an emergency switch for police and fire if they have to get in there at night. right and push a button and turn all the lights back on rather than going into a dark building if something if they have to get in there so that's all been installed and uh i sent the information to the fire department this morning and they've already sent it out to all the stations in the county they have a system where they all because you never know who's going to respond yes fire operates so they have a protocol and these type of peculiar things with a particular address. They put it in a computer and if they get a call to an address, those unique things come up on their computer screen in the fire trucks that this is a situation at this particular location. So that light switch will come up onto them when they're responding that they can get in there and it gives them a location where they can turn the lights on.

That is great, Frank.

Their lights are off from, I forget the, he said, you're going to adjust it with, you know, daylight savings time and so forth and so on. But basically it's a dawn to dusk type of a situation that the lights will be on and then they'll be off the rest of the time.

Thank you, Frank. That's huge.

It will be built, but the fact that economically there was daylight because of

We don't have any new business. And we are missing Madam Mayor. So no liaison updates tonight. Any staff updates?

No updates. The workshop was basically the update. I hope to see you guys in a couple weeks.

Dave, you have your hand up?

Yeah, I would like to have a quick conversation just to make sure everybody is aware of the Parkview Island sewage break that happened a couple of weeks ago. I don't believe that we had a chance to talk about that. I think that happened after our last meeting. Is everybody aware of what happened there?

Yes.

They have – they had a sewer line break underneath Biscayne – I think it's Biscayne Elementary, underneath the elementary school in – underneath the – in the playground and it was during King tides and all of that water sewage intermixed with stormwater and ended up out in the Bay creating, I mean, not another no contact water with water, but, uh, a very serious no contact with water. Um, you know, there's been a no contact with water for five years around that area. So, um, uh, Miami Beach is faced with significant aging infrastructure. A lot of their pipes are 50, 60, 70, and in some cases, 80 years old. And it's a mess. So that impacts our bay because Parkview Island is only on 77th. Right. So it's just due east of us and it's pretty gross and it is a health risk. It's been this situation, no contact with water for five years where they have had an undisclosed or undetermined source of this fecal matter that is going through the stormwater systems out into the bay. So this is just alerting that our focus on water quality testing is important. Surfrider is entering into an agreement with Miami Beach for Miami Beach to issue water quality alerts using Surfrider's water quality data. and their Blue Water Task Force to residents via the SMS messaging system. I don't exactly know how that's going to work, but they're going to start presenting the water quality testing results to all of the residents.

We have an agreement with Who is it that does water quality testing in North Bay Village?

It's either Waterkeeper, FIU, and Surfrider are all doing water quality testing here.

If I remember, she attended our meeting. We are tested, I think, at three different locations. in North Bay Village. And I think she was from, it's a woman, blonde haired woman, I forget her name, obviously, she attends our meeting, but I think she was from Surf Rider. And we were getting monthly reports in the village for the, I think there's maybe not three, but there's at least two testing sites in the village right now on a monthly basis. That is likely.

It's every two weeks. Every two weeks. We have shifted. They're going to start testing on the Vogel Park. We've given them access with a key where they can get in there. It's easier for them to test there than it is at Civic Park. So they're changing there. We're just extending the contract. It'll be long before the commission in November. And then they're going to be testing and continuing testing over by the Grandview Palace on that area there. So they're there every two weeks. We get a report, and if there's anything negative, then we put it out on our social media so that people know if they've got a negative testing.

That's what I remember.

Yeah, that's how it's working right now.

And also, Dave, you know, this village has always been very aware. In fact, the previous mayor, Latham, we went as far as putting out talks about annexation of North Bay Village over into Normandy and areas like that. But it was mainly he said we would do whatever we could to help out in that whole canal area of Parkview, which, you know, is a septic nightmare. So on our part, we've always been very receptive. We'll help wherever we can, since it definitely impacts us right across the bay. I think the biggest thing as a, I'm not a Miami Beach resident, obviously in North Bay Village, I think that The Miami Beach Commission. They're the ghetto child up in there and they know the issues and all these years. They're very reluctant to to financially do what's necessary to correct that that pollution nightmare that's up there.

So I think Source of pollution like it's very easy. to identify those things. So how can they say unknown source?

Well, they made a big deal out of when they opened a little mini park right next to it, they had a big thing of the golden shovels and planting trees. And the people were saying, can't you smell what we live with all the time? To me, again, I think Miami Beach and South Beach or Miami Beach and, you know, that whole area up here in North Beach and Parkview Island are just bastard children. They don't They're not getting what they deserve. And I know that that is a nightmare over there with the sanitary system.

They're getting a lot of new buildings over there too now. Yes.

Well, I followed this extensively. And it is true that... There is a lot of infrastructure that needs upgraded around Miami Beach. But I think that I mentioned this because we are not immune to, well, they are not the only ones who likely have aging infrastructure, right? And so as we move forward with our road raising and stormwater infrastructure, Probably a really good time for us to also consider whether, you know, whether some of our systems do any of our systems need upgraded at the same time while we're tearing everything up. Right. But that's huge capital outlay. And, you know, but. if we can think through what we're gonna need for the next 40, 50 years, as these new buildings come up, then there's significant opportunity there. I think the other lesson that Miami Beach may or may not, I don't exactly know how to structure this, but the buildings that are coming on board They're going to add, you know, you have a little five story, you know, the related group, for example, right? However many units that had, they're going to have a lot more toilets. And so there is going to be additional capacity that's going to be necessary, not just for this project, but when you get all of the projects down the line. And so ensuring that there is the money coming in specifically for the infrastructure upgrade that is earmarked for infrastructure upgrade. It's lovely when we get a park. It's lovely when we get green space. We should absolutely be angling for that. But I am concerned about future taxpayers now all of a sudden having to bond, create a bond for infrastructure upgrades to handle capacity that was coming online?

All right, so capacity is not the issue because they have to get an allocation letter before they can get their building permit for the capacity. So we have capacity. The problem is, just as Dave is pointing out, is the age of the infrastructure. And that is why the stormwater workshop that we're going to have, although it's called the stormwater workshop, it is going to include the potable water and the sanitary sewer lines. Because as Dave is pointing out, we only want to dig into these roads one time. Whether we elevate them or not is another debate. But there's no question that the stormwater is relatively close to the surface with all of the infrastructure that has to be put in. It's really the highest level. And then the next level down is your potable water. And then below that is a sanitary water. The sanitary water is below the drinking water for the obvious reason that if it leaks, at least it's going hopefully downward and not onto the drinking lines that if they're linking and even, you know, that water is under pressure, but it creates a vacuum as it runs along. And if it's sitting in sewage, it can pull, uh, water in with those leaks as the water rushes by like a Venturi type thing. So you're right. The infrastructure here is from the original. We were under a moratorium when I came here in 2013 is when I first started here. And during that five years when I was here, we did line a lot of the sewage But we only got one area out of moratorium. Fortunately, now with the work that has been done since I was gone, and now everything's out of moratorium. But just by a hair, it's not like we're fixed by a long shot. And I told the commission back 10 years ago, you're buying time. And the idea is that back then, There was huge resistance to any of this development. And this infrastructure is going to have to be replaced. And it's going to be either through the taxes that come from this development or it's going to be back on the back of the homeowners because it's going to have to be done. And there's no way of getting around it. And so it's a long-term project. You're probably talking 10 to 20 years to be able to do the complete infrastructure throughout here. But we're facing it. And hopefully, as these buildings come online, we will invest that money into the infrastructure and take the relief off of the homeowners. And we should be able to lower taxes. I mean, there's a lot of projections that we're looking at. And in the next four or five years, as some of these buildings come online, one of the primary missions of at least the existing commission has been to me is they want to give the people a reduction in their taxes. And so that's at the top of the line. But we need to balance that with the infrastructure work that is going to have to be done. There's just, there's no way around it. It's going to have to be done. And hopefully we can keep it patched and running well until these buildings come online and we can, like with this stormwater workshop, we can start to develop a total infrastructure program that, you know, goes in steps as, as, as we get the money. And so, you know, Dave, you're exactly right. I mean, you know, it's, it's, we got the same problems here that they got on the beach. Ours is a little bit easier to control because we got a smaller area and we can invest in and make the patches. We had a big sewer break here that you probably didn't even know about just a couple of weeks ago. right here on the causeway by the station there, the Village Hall pump station, the pipe ruptured. And our guys were able to respond very quickly and we were able to contain and we notified Durham right away, which is a lot of these breaks happen and nobody calls the agencies that they should to put them on alert that I'm not worried about getting a fine. I'm worried about what we're doing so that we get the onus put on us to protect that bay. as much as we can with what's going out there. And so we did a good job on that one and got that fixed. But we're just a tad away from what the beach is in. I'm telling you that we're not in good shape.

Frank, I reported something at the Bridgewater. Was that the sewer break?

No, no, this one was right there by Civic Park where we got that big pump station.

It was our anniversary break. It happened during the anniversary celebration. That's right. If you went up front, they've been out there for almost two weeks now, even further up the line. But it busted wide open. I asked Frank, I said, I think we have a problem. And he explained to me, he said, yes, the pipe is broke. So that's an 80th anniversary break right there. That's an example.

Well, we controlled the break real quick. Oh, I know that. The issue is always doing the repair, being able to get in there. and make the fix without making it worse because these pipes are so fragile. When you get to the point that you have to make a repair on these pipes, you got to go further down the line to find a good place that you can make the connections. So it took a few, it took a couple of weeks to get it done, but most of it was on the restoration side with the ground and the asphalt and all that.

And, um, David, what you're referring to by the Bridgewater, that is a private company that has made a mess out of the causeway for the past year and a half, just trying to do a two-month project of laying down underground cables for traffic. They've been there. They've been all over 79th Street from Speedway down through to Bridgewater, making a mess for over a year and a half now. That's what you see when you see those areas kind of blocked off with the barricades.

Frank, at the county, they are deploying these smart, these sewer smart covers to detect overflows. I don't know if you've seen them and I don't know if that's helpful for anything we're working on.

I'm not familiar with that, but I know that when we had the high tides, the king tides, I came down South Treasurer. And right by that one pump station at South Treasure Pump Station, the water was lifting the manhole right up out of the ground.

Yep.

And that was coming out. So, I mean, listen, we've got issues that we, you know, we got to address. And they're on the table. And right now we're a response and repair operation. And we need to get ahead of that and become proactive. And we're having Kimley Horne. it's either Keminghorn or maybe Ardura, but I know that Roger is having a, uh, we're doing a up-to-date survey of the system that we have so that we can plot a plan and have some kind of a presentation to give at that, uh, stormwater, uh, workshop, which again, I encourage everyone to participate in too, because it's going to open some eyes what we're facing here. And, uh, And then we got to develop a plan and start, you know, eating that elephant. That's all there is to it.

I just want to confirm it's Ardura, Frank.

Ardura is going to do it?

Well, they're not doing the presentation, but they're the one that did the outlet study.

Right. Well, they did the outlet for the outfalls, right?

Yeah.

I mean, the outfall study. Right. But I think I think Roger's talking to them about doing the evaluation of the other lines too. They're a good outfit. I like them. So we're aware and we're going to work on it.

We will be there.

Good.

Nothing else. Meeting adjourned at 7.53 p.m. Thank you so much.

Second the motion.

Motion to meeting adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, everyone.

All in favor.

Bye. Bye-bye.

Bye.