Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone. Um, calling to order the um, board of building appeals public meeting from Wednesday, March 11th, 26, just after 6 p.m. Uh, one of our board member may is lately running late, but we have a form, so we're going to start. Uh, we have a busy calendar for today. Um, first on the calendar is or I guess because we have a ton of public comment, I'm going to do a few reminders on uh writing public comments. Um, we're going to have uh for each project applicants come up uh talk to the board. Uh we have a couple of items that are returning items and then two new items. Um there's then after the applicant is heard by the board and the board has an opportunity to ask questions there is an opportunity for public comment to be provided. We ask that at that point people who desire to speak come up at the table right here. Uh we ask that you um give your name, address, name, address, um and that you address the board. Um we would like to avoid any back and forth between applicants and the public comment is being addressed to the board, not to the applicant. Uh members of the public get three minutes. It's timed by uh staff of the board. Um and we will be interrupted if you go over that. uh and elected officials like council members get six minutes and uh it for now. Okay. So that's ground rules. Um the first item on the agenda is project number 00624 195 Avenue. So the applicant could come up.

We have an applic I mean, they've been informed. They're aware. It's on the calendar. It's been noticed. They've been here before, so they certainly know where we are. Um, yeah. I mean, absent council saying otherwise, I don't see why we can't make

a ruling in abstentia. move to the next thing and then just hold them till the end. Yeah.

Okay. We're going to push that to the end um and see if they show up and if not we may if you want to look into it we will check um that we can still proceed with hearing and making a decision on the case even though they're not here. Um but we will circle back to that at the end of the meeting. All right. So with that said, um the next project is new to the board. Uh it's for use variance. It's use variance 2025-4. The property address is 41 Penberg Street. The applicant is high associate LLC represented by Keith Kramer. The zoning district is residential townhouse. The proposal is to allow for new construction of a fourstory dwelling multi-unit building on a vacant lot with historic facet with nine dwelling units in the RT district where such use is not permitted. Um

um Madam Chair, there's five of us here. Is it all right we bring chairs up? We also got two presentations for Yeah, that's that's Thank you. sit next to

Thank you, board members. Um, I'd like to first state that we're very happy and excited to be here. It's been a two and a half year wait to get to this point. So, this is the team that's here. Um, my son who's actually our computer IT guy for university. Very proud of him. Master's degree. I paid for that. So, happy about that. Uh, Keith Kramer, overnight 50 years architect. Mr. Demp Chris Demp lawyers Albany this is a scenario we do we hire from where we work at that's very important we want to keep the money in the area my business partner and 50% of Titan Associates Miss Marie Gil I'd also like to say that we've been in this area since 2019 we built five different projects here are all successful we're building our sixth one. Now, we've taken very tough areas and made them livable. Exceeded what we've done. 336 Clinton, 370 Clinton, 372 Clinton, 153 4th Avenue, 10hole place. Most of these places were empty over 10 years. Tenh Hall, as you basically know because you guys are from here, was a white elephant. 30 years that plate stood empty through seven different owners. Our our engineer is not here today. He has another appointment. But we bring a team. We bring a concept. We're very transparent and we bring it to the neighborhood. So this is us, Tiger Associates. If you want to look on the computer, we have our website up and you can see exactly what we do. I always say,

and no no offense to anyone here, we take [ __ ] and we shine it. So, we're neighborhood guys. Um, we basically live in Queens. We're part of a block association. We give out scholarships. We do a lot of stuff. We do a lot of stuff here also. Cold drives, everything else. We're part of the community. So, at that point, I'm going to leave it off to our attorney and our architect.

All all I'm going to say is this is our initial presentation. Uh, you know, we invite comments from uh from the neighborhoods, from the board. If not tonight, we you know, I'm anticipating we'll, you know, this will be a journ, you know, further opportunity to respond. We believe in transparency and we are anxious and excited for the project to uh to move forward. And with that, no for any further ado, I'm going to turn it over to Keith Kramer Parker. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Well, speaking of White Elephants, I think we all know this brick wall. I think it's been three years that we have owned it now, right?

And it's been empty probably 30 as a brick wall. I'm not exactly sure when it was, but anyways, it's, you know, it's been through the county tax sales, passed over to the land bank, and nobody wanted it. So, after we had some success across the street and whole place, which won a preservation award, um then we took a look at this. So, um, like immediately after we bought the brick wall, uh, the city came in with their engineer and told us they had to put up this steel frame. Can you go back to that picture? So, this wall was fine for 35 years until we bought it. So, that'll come up in part of our hardship case and part of how we've laid out the building. I don't know if you can see it there, but u it's basically a structural steel frame, but it's sitting on a 4 foot thick concrete pad or two foot thick, which is right up against the building. So,

and all this was to hold up a wall. Yeah, no building.

So, anyway, that's what we're dealing. But as you see, we're just going to work right around that steel. It'll end up inside of the walls or just be minor bumps in the floor plan. And the new the new building will be steel, too. So, we're going to go on top of that. So, the idea here is this is a good picture here. You can see it was originally three stories on the front and at least two in the back. If you're familiar with that terrain there, it's it's very steep. Drops fast down to um Earl Street. Actually, our property ends at a little alley way down at the bottom. I'm not sure it's legal alley or not, but everybody parks down. So, our thought is we want to turn this back into apartments. what we came up with thinking how we're going to make this affordable because we're already in the hole with that steel frame and site work and all that stuff. So, we came up with the 9 unit concept. So, it would be two units on each of the floors upstairs. And as we walk back down the hill past the giant concrete slab and start dropping, there's room for another unit down there. Probably would be more for room for more if he kept stepping down the build the hill. But we want to stop where the neighbor building stops, which is uh 60 ft back. The neighbor on the north side And they all have porches back there too added on to the 60 ft. So basically we're filling that up. And the reason we're going to touch the other buildings here is because we're already committed with our steel frame and our concrete slab that we have to go right up to

here. So yeah, we're little bit afraid of that. And I'll talk about that too when we get to Madison Place. Um, so there we go. So this is working off the concept that, you know, some preservationist you don't hide the difference between what's new and what's old. So pretty much we're just going to put a new cap and structural steel across the top of that brick and then go on up with a new structural frame. The front will be real brick. Um on the front and then we get around to the sides, we'll go panelized brick, thin bricks, and then the back where people actually will be sitting would be a cement board backing. But so from the street on all the three visible sides, it'll look like a brick. And you saw all those diamonds on the front. Those are all the support plates dying to break into the structural steel. So they will of course stay there. Most of the front will stay. It's got, you know, elements of brownstone which will need patching. Got the couple little peers that came out. There's no iron fence there, but I can remember years ago there was iron fence there. So, we're going to put that back in and that would be spots for like park bike parking, maybe some flower pots, that type of thing. Uh, used to be an entrance to the basement, but of course, it'll all be blocked off from there now. So, there's what we're dealing with the hill. So, we're just going to put in the one basement apartment, which will by the time I get to the back wall not look like a basement. We wait well out of the ground back there. And the red and the dark black line

would just be the interior stair stair tower. And just remember in the back there of the building is an alleyway. Uh it says Wilson Street on it, but there's no street to nowhere. Um there's people that park on the other side for the other buildings on that which we would not disturb at all. Yeah. And because of the slope is it's not much use to us other than when we get farther down the line for storm water retention and that type of thing.

Correct. But it's not good for parking here. It's tough to even walk it. So that is the proposal. Uh we'll follow all the historic guidelines of course for the front and the visible parts. Um be all new windows of course. Basically, we're just we got to break wall break wall stain and keep it as original colors. All we have to wear a sealer on it. But, you know, my opinion, it's not in horrible shape considering what's gone through it. It's had a pretty big metal cap on it, I guess, for all those years, right? We we also try to keep everything as original as we can. Um the aesthetics of Albany is absolutely gorgeous. It's beautiful and we always want to keep that and the projects that we've been able to do here. That's exactly what we've done. As you'll look on our website, you'll see the buildings are going around Albany itself. You'll see exactly what we've been able to accomplish.

Any questions? Do you want to walk us through a little bit of the So I I'm sure you're familiar with the criteria that we have to consider for use variance which are um strict and are cumulative unlike an area variance an area variance you're balancing the factors where use variance you have to fit every factor um and so I haven't you heard me talk much yet about those criterias and especially the you at the um the financial component of that. Yeah. Can we just go through these slides, right?

So, basically, we've looked at it. We've had our structural engineer give us, you know, rough opinion of the slope and the structural details there. So, mostly in this building, a big big cost are going to be in the ground. That's why, you know, it's going to be such a big cost. A few apartments won't support that kind of retaining wall and structural support for the neighbors and the slope and tying into what's there already. I'm pretty sure it's structurally sound the frame that's there now. But again, we'll have to look at all that. There won't be any new weight on the brick wall. Of course, the other part of that is also uh there's a there's a a hardship with the the uh sewer system that's here. Um through my time up here, I've been able to uh talk to several people. There was a gentleman, Keith Lzette. Uh he runs quite a large company for the city. and uh he told me he worked on this and he gave me some schematics to actually what is wrong with that. So this is something that we would have to delve into uh before we even started building uh because you know other projects happen and uh you you people build them and then all of a sudden they start sinking or something's wrong. That's no good for the developer. That's no good for the city. That's no good for the neighbors. And uh that's what we don't have happen with us. So those those are the big items for this spot and that's why it's been empty for 30 years. We we at time take on projects that doesn't seem like anybody has an

appetite for and we're just two idiots that love doing this stuff and we believe that housing is a a right. It's not something that is uh a gift or whatever, but it's a right. And uh through my time, I was law enforcement for 22 years in New York City. I was part of a union that came up here quite a bit uh with uh Governor Pataki. Uh still pretty good friends. Uh no political stuff though. All right. Um and my business partner here is the former vice president of NYU uh it so we just uh like these type of projects

going back to this criteria the applicants that yeah thank you um on the criteria regarding a reasonable term. Um, the way I understand the criteria is that we kind were required to address and consider whether I guess whether you've considered all the allowed uses and whether any of the allowed uses would allow you a reasonable return.

We think only apartments would do that. So, and man from staff and from the zoning rules here is that there are a couple of non-residential uses that are allowed for that area for that type of and so I don't know if you can dip a little bit on that like and I understand that it sounds like this is not the type of project you choose to run but I guess I think that has an impact on the ability to meet that criteria. Mhm. Well, basically through our other projects like I'm doing a lot now turning commercial projects into apartments. It's just no commercial market around here now. And my opinion is 10 Book Street is not going to ever be good for a commercial market. I think the only thing that could have been commercial once was the church and that always gets shot down. So

as far as character of the neighborhood, are there other uh shops along Henro? No. Other than other than other than you know other than housing not that I know what were the other used to we talking just saying at um in this area. No, it's it's residential area.

So, we're owners of 10 Hall. We we redid that right across the street. Uh years ago, I think it was 1947 to 197 something. Please don't quote me on that. Uh this was a 16 unit uh building at that time. Um I guess you know over time things happened, but that's what it was. Um if that's any historical background to it. Well, And then do you want to give us a little bit more details? I know you provided a perform that like goes over some of the numbers and calculations that we like we are required by the law to provide to only grant the most minimal variance and here you're asking for nine units when the code only allows for three units. So I don't know if you can just walk us through a little bit more of the financial here. Go over there. Wait for a second.

Compound residential building already. Yeah. Yeah, I think as one of the takeaways maybe for a future meeting is, you know, going to back to future other uses that are currently allowed and, you know, giving us more details as to the analysis behind the why those are not available options um I think would be important for the consideration of this case

good point yeah sorry that's fine hi thank you can you I think on this question of financials right this is a nine unit uh twobedroom room each uh two on each floor uh with one additional if I'm remembering um correct the file correct correct so can you walk us through I guess the feasibility of how would this look if you had had to make it a three-unit building and what the impact of the financials would be there does that make sense well in in in creating the performer

uh we did different scenarios of course um and It's basically uh as you go down the the building of the the structure itself probably wouldn't be that that much cheaper in terms of the cost but in terms of operating it the operating expenses really don't change that much. So, we did a few iterations of it and um it seemed that you would not be able to support the building if you were to have, you know, three or four units. Is that because you wouldn't be able to charge the amount of rent per unit?

That's right. The the mum the amount of rent that you would have to to go up. I mean we tried to keep it in the affordable uh range in terms of the performer that we did do but as you you know less units you would have to go up and and presumably they would be larger units there would be larger that that is true but then

from my understanding of some of the research we did the there's such a need for affordable housing and and people and and we do have a few buildings here where we we rent uh you would really sort of lose some of that ability to provide housing for the that category if you had to make it simply a three or four unit building. So that that's some of the consideration too. Um you know we know the need for the housing itself and and the construction cost would be almost the same. Um all the prop remaining all the proposed units are one bedroom

two bedrooms the two bedrooms nine units it's going to cost between 1.7 and 2 million 2.1 I believe the numbers were Keith yeah on on this project and was the proform designed in-house like are these all scenarios that you all ran independently or were there outside uh real estate experts or financial experts we use some of the resources from outside but really be random internally. Well, also we had the expertise of Turner Construction, uh, who was also based here in Albany over on Wolf Road. Um, they've also ran numbers and we provided that also and their numbers were actually, I think, higher than ours.

Who was that? Turning construction. I just like to say again too, there's so much cost just getting out of the ground here that two or three units cannot cannot do it. It can't support and save that wall, work around that steel frame can't be done. And remember, we're historic. Yeah. So, a window that would normally cost $200 is 1,200. That's just the facts of what goes on. You said something interesting before. You said that in your research. I hope I said a lot interesting.

You know, I was right. Um, you said something about the fact that you did you all did research and found that this had previously been occupied as a multi-unit dwelling in the 40s. Was that provided to that came from Aaron planning department? Okay. It might be written on that page. Yeah. 202122. I totally missed this in the file. I'm sorry. I remember it was 1947 cuz Jackie Robinson broke into the major leagues at that time. So, I'm a baseball guy. I don't think we really know what the back wall was back in those days,

right? Do we know how many units were in it? She don't have the actual No, I just But we do have records. Okay.

How much did you say the construction costs were? This is estimated between 1.7 and 2.1. Yes. I I wish it was a couple hundred, you know, a couple months ago. Yes, I wish it was that.

And if you see our other projects that we've uh completed, you will understand the type of work that we do. Uh when we came up here, people living in with dirt floors in these buildings. Uh and it was ridiculous. You know, we do the right things. We do the granite. We do the wood floors. We we we put everything in there that that we go above and beyond. It's like we're living there. And I have actually sometimes stay up here and I take one of the apartments. And what's your timeline? Desired as soon as we can just keep going up. Yeah.

Approvals for the How long it take? A year. hopefully. Well, depending on the sub of that building because that's that's where I think a lot of money is going to go from talking to Keith, right? Not Keith Frame, but Keith Lzette. uh there's a lot of problems under there that he identified and that's you know as Keith said earlier Keith Framer said earlier that uh you know this is why this place has been empty a long time.

Um going back to the financial uh is there um like loan component to the finances of this project?

Could you specify what you made? Like so we have to for your experience, right? We you have to you have to show to us that the zoning regulation and the use for that property is causing unnecessary hardship. And one of the ways you do that is by establishing that you cannot realize a reasonable return for any of the allowed uses for the property. Right? and and it the burden's on you to demonstrate that um that financially with financial evidence that financially any of the allowed uses does not work for this property. Um, and so, you know, I heard the cost of the construction and kind of like we talked a little bit about like the amount of rent needed to kind of cover that, but I assume that there is loans involved or, you know,

um, which also has a cost and I assume is I would assume has a consequence on the need to be able to have higher return on the result of the right

yes I mean for mo from the financial point of view uh it we would have to get a loan say about 80% of of you know the construction cost to build it. So and that's part of in the performer as well where when you calculate that that that's your debt you have to cover that and that's one of the requirements that yeah everything is in there school I think I mean we would have to definitely have 80% of these uh financing to to build this

and so for the perform like are you already engaged in discussions with banks for such a loan or not yet like I guess are the numbers for that based on like estimations or based on anything that you've already started negotiating and discussing moving.

Well, we work with a lot of different financing now for some of our other properties. So, we have a you know we have the folks that we talk to. We don't have a particular lender yet because you know we have to get approval first but we do have a very good sense of you know what whether the costs the the the interest rates uh you know what would be necessary to get because it's it's a large amount it's not um 80% of of the cost is still significant

and I don't know maybe for the next time you know like as a maybe there's more to be said about that because I assume that you only can get a loan if the bank feels confident that you can get proper return on the investment. Exactly. Exactly. You have to be bankable. Yeah. And that's that's the entire part of this. Anytime you do a project

and you're you're not dealing with private money, most of our projects up here have been private money. This is not private money. This is part of us putting skin in the game, of course, is what they want to see. But when you do a project like that with the network that we have, it's 80% 75% that's got to be financed through this and you have to be bankable and part of the bankable is the P&L sheet, you know, where they can see a return of their money, you know, it's just that's just business. We'll we'll we'll uh develop that and articulate that. We you know I have an understanding of what you're what you know we got through hardship and this is you know part of the hardship the cost of doing business and uh we'll look at that and get something in

do any of your other properties in the city like how many units does 10hole place have four and the Clinton Avenue are are those two family house no three we we were up here with home lending um I'm sure you remember them they changed uh all of Clinton Avenue from two to three. We were in front of the planning board at that time. We we of course were successful in doing that and that's what we've been able to do on Clinton with those three properties. But this would also be a substantially larger unit than the ones you have worked on in the past. Right. Up here. Up here. Yeah. Up here.

Yeah. But let me just make it clear. Uh my business partner has over 50 years in construction even though she was a vice president NYU. I have over 35 years in construction even though I was uh law enforcement in New York for 22 years. So we don't play at this. This is what we do. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the question.

I was going to take a break and pick something else. Um, so one of the other creatures we have to look at is the uniqueness of this situation and of the property and how what distinguished this property from any of the other vacant lots in Albany from being allowed to do nine units instead of the three allowed, right? Like I mean this is a neighborhood where there are a lot of vacant lots. You know why should this lot get a use variance allowing it to put nine units on it instead of the free allowed under the code? Um you know and I think you've started to talk a little bit about that. I mean I've heard a little bit of dimensions you know but if you can I think it's really important to address that.

Well I think it's a well-known unique property. Everybody knows it. It's been I won't call it an eyesore, but it's been a problem. And everybody for 30 years has said, "Why didn't somebody do something there?" So,

and what makes it unique? Well, you have to deal with a standing brick wall that really construction wise is only more expense than knocking it down starting new, you know. And then like you said, the city coming in and putting that monstrosity in the back to hold up the brick wall, which is just basically in our way, you know, we got to work around that. Um, can't come out now because it's cemented to the other buildings. Um, so I just I think it's unique just by visually looking at it.

And just to add to that, uh, Keith is being very nice. Um, but the city also filled up the basement with concrete there, which made no sense either. They had a company come in to do it that doesn't do this type of work. And the first person that the mayor let go was this guy who ran that department. So I'm not unique in this situation. I'm probably one of the only ones that spoke out. I made a a real beef about this in court and I also made a beef about this with the with the Times Union, okay? About what had been going on here at that time. I couldn't believe it. So that's part of the problem there. But the uniqueness is the architect of that street. They're building a 49 right now that's down from us. Uh the Duck Street Boys or we were friends with them. They they sold out. What do they think? Dove Street.

Dove. Dove Street.

Right. So this is an area that is close to us. I I personally love Ten Hall. Um that's my baby. Anybody will tell you, "Don't mess with that building. That building is my baby." This is an area that at one time it looked like uh Strive's Row or something in uh New Orleans uh that you would go and you would see. Uh it's a beautiful area and it deserves the right project with it. Now, behind it where the Palace Theater is down the block, you have a 50 unit building down there. And then if you go further down, you have other 50 and 100 units uh down the block from there. I mean, you have the mansion also, but you have multi-units right behind us, right down there. Uh nine units is nothing, but it makes the project feasible. At Tiger, we don't try to hit home runs. Okay, a home run would be I build 10 units there and charge 5,000 a month, but that's not going to happen. And if it was feasible to do that, I would never do that. Housing has to be affordable. And that's at 10 Hall. Our rents are affordable. And that's what we want to do. That's the project there. the beauty of the area that architect is is is unbelievable and I believe we can bring it back and build something there that is really spectacular.

It would be helpful to find out like how much you're thinking about charging for rent whatever the market would be. We don't know those numbers as of yet and I'm not going to tell you something that's not true. Yeah, we did some estimates but that but we're here for transparency. we're not here for. So in the performer, it does have some estimates that the but again we have to be bankable in order to do it. So those numbers will be gone over with the with the bank

and and the lender and everyone else and you know when the project goes through which I'm sure it will, we can bring those numbers back to you and we've always listened. We've always been transparent and we will continue to be that even when my son takes over. Okay. It will always be that way. And her son's too. And to confirm, you said one basement apartment, correct? Correct. Yes. Okay. And why only one in the basement? Does it have anything to do with the concrete that was mentioned or it can't do anything up by the way? This is only like one specific area in the basement that

if you look out it steps down as we go back, but really it won't seem like a basement apartment because three sides will be out of the ground. And they'll have a raised deck in the basement, too. Is there an entrance, a separate entrance to the basement the way it is now?

Be a door out the back and one staircase on the inside. Of course, all the windows will be egress windows and be fully speculated building. Yeah. Anything over four units more has to be sprinkled. Yeah. So 10 holder sprinklers actually. So that would that could go to the cost analysis as well. I know you all are going to go back and or talk about adding more detail and it being a historic building dealing with the windows and all of that the sprinkler system. I think that that would help.

Thank you for that. And I think in, you know, in that item of going back through kind of the permitted uses and of kind of looking back at the financial and how that ties to the allowed uses. Um, I think going back and kind of maybe going through, you know, for the board for next time, like walking the board through with like the various different lower units amount. So, what this would look like, right? Like a permanent use would be three units, but you're asking for nine. The code says we can only grant you the most minimal variance that would support this project. So, I think we kind of need you to walk through, you know, would four work, would five work, would six work, would seven work, would eight work kind of thing or why not. Yeah,

we did that. Well, we'll go. Yeah, we did that. That's how we came up with the number of units. Yeah. This is still right. Okay. Are there any other plans for parking or just street parking?

Just street parking. Well, you have street parking, but also we're going to put bike racks in there. You know, behind the wall, not on the wall, but behind the wall. We'll put the uh bike racks up there. A lot of people like to bike or like myself, I like to bike, you know. Why take a car every unless it's 20° up here, you know? Um, I know you have the other project, but we're going to do one at a time. So, I think for now, thank you. Uh, you can step back into

Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. I got

decided um and it's part of the public record. Um I know there are some people signed up for public comment. Um so um any of those that are here tonight is going through the list um that's already provided but if other people want to speak after that we can hear that as well. Uh Alicia the mirror.

Hello. Um I'm Alicia Deary, president of the Tenrook Triangle Neighborhood Association known as the preservation. It's lovely to see meet everybody here in person. Um I wish we were meeting under different circumstances. Um

street at two first street which uh is directly uh across the park from this property. Um so I did uh submit a letter on the part of the neighborhood association on uh following discussions with my board members as well as the other leadership. Um, I did submit a letter which I'm not sure this is my first zoning board meeting. Are the applicants provided a copy of my letter at all part of the public records that's available? Like I don't know if they were specifically sent.

Okay. So I'll just kind of go over those notes quickly. Um, and also as a neighbor I just have a small personal comment as well. So the uh first note that I made was uh also in regard to finances that the applicant cannot realize a reasonable return provided with uh competent financial evidence. We did not see uh upon reading any of the submission materials any proof of return for any smaller level of units. Uh we do not at this time support nine units being constructed. Um, and we would like to see what the numbers look like if they were to lessen those units because it would lessen the cost, lessen the need for supervision during building and lessen overall financial needs. Um, also uh wanted to address a second point that the essential character of the neighborhood would actually be altered. Um, currently in the historic Tenbrook triangle which surrounds St. St. Joseph's Park and St. Joseph's Church, um, there is no new brick in the last 100 years. This would be the first uh you know uh building constructed. I think it it does serve to set a precedent for many vacant lots in our area of what could be constructed there. Um I know the residential townhouse uh does limit to three units. We would like to see a more reasonable number of units and also more reasonably sized building be put in that uh in that lot. This total scale build uh exceeds 10,000 square feet uh once every floor plan was measured. The largest uh neighborhood buildings on Tenbrook currently for frame of reference are three stories plus basement level and range from 57 to 6,500 ft total of square footage. It just seems like a very large jump. Um and it would not uh match the character of that neighborhood block um as such. um even if it was uniform in height, uh the back and the depth would be

inappropriate and largely new materials. Uh that the alleged hardship has not been self-created. We would encourage them to develop um plans for supplementary supplementary project funding. Um we also have concern about public utilities including waste and recycling disposal. I did not see a plan. I'm sorry. I know I'm over the time, but yeah, unfortunately.

Yeah. those uh items are in my letter. Um but yeah, thank you works. Great. Thank you.

My name is Bruce Pollock. I live at 53 Phillips Street. Um, thank you so much for tonight. I'm actually rising in support of the housing development. Um, personally, I understand I've seen some commentary online as well as here about concerns about neighborhood character, blight, parking, trash, etc. Um, I would make the argument that a vacant lot is probably the most blighted property that we could possibly have. Uh, and we're also under a pretty unique and pretty substantial housing crisis here within Albany. As we all know, the housing audit last fall showed us we're 3,000 units short probably for 2030. And projects like this actually help us close that gap and bring vacancy neighborhood vacancy rates down substantially which would encourage us more affordable rents. This is nine units in a neighborhood that has largely as they've stated not had a lot of development in in recent years but also in not recent years. And so as such with the neighbors being present who are lovely I've interacted with many of them. Some of them are listed here. uh we can't as younger folks or as lower income folks afford to live in those types of neighborhoods. We can't add to the character. We can't support those communities. We can't raise families there. We can't provide for our loved ones who may live there. So without projects like this, I would make the argument that the neighborhood character will deteriorate over time because we're preserving a history that we can't engage with. Um in addition to that, um I do want to raise a point about parking. I saw that a lot when I was doing some research about this. Um, 29% of downtown Albany is surface level parking. Street parking is plentiful. And this project also resides on pretty frequent bus line and is accessible by public transit for a lot of properties as well in addition to being in walking distance for several major employers like New York State. So, anyone who lives here or works here or not works here, excuse me, lives in this property would actually be pretty accessible in terms of public transit. bikes were mentioned with the bike racks, but um it

wouldn't I don't see parking as being a as a highle major concern. Um with respect to trash and sewer, I understand that the property is larger, but there are properties of similar sizes all throughout the city that don't have a significant trash or sewer problem, and they've already mentioned that they're willing to work to address and modify those before the construction begins in earnest. Um, and finally, I just want to remind everybody that for nine units that are two-bedroom units, that's a potential of at minimum 18 family member people that could live there. That's 18 individuals that could potentially get housing, and that's a conservative estimate. You know, you could have one person that operates two bedrooms. You could have like my sister with her husband, wife, and two kids and several dogs in a two-bedroom apartment. So, this is family housing. This is our missing middle that we need to see more of. And I'm grateful to see developers like this put some skin in the game and take a chance. Um, I'm going to finish with 10 seconds, though, but thank you so much for for your time.

Uh, Jennifer Novak.

Hi, my name is Jennifer Novc. I live at 241 First Street right up the street from this property. I'm the one that saved the facade um as it was being torn down by the city of Albany. I'm also the one that advocated for filling in the cement as the entire hill was collapsing um and caving in the building on this direct. Thank you.

So, just so you know, there's a lot of more history behind this building. Okay, there are if you did four apartments in this building at $2,000, which is the average market rate in our neighborhood. Our neighborhood is a very exclusive neighborhood. A lot of people want to live in our neighborhood. It's mostly single family units or owner occupied units. Okay. The average going rate for onebedroom is $2,000. At $2,000 for apartments, it's just shy of $100,000 a year. That is affordable. You add another story onto that and you have to sprinkle it. Sprinkle systems cost 200,000 minimum to sprinkle. Save yourself some money. That extra story, that's a lot more money, a lot more weight, a lot more bearing. Ask any engineer that's going to create a massive amount of structural input on that hillside. It's not going to fly. Talk to the historic engineers that have worked on these buildings that know the area. This idea that all these buildings are, oh, they're desolate and there's dirt floors. [ __ ] I've been living here since what, 1980. Okay, 1980. I know almost every single one of my neighbors. This is a very nice neighborhood. Okay, this was a three-story building. It's a historic neighborhood. It's on the National Historic Registry. Keep it at three stories. They want to add another story, fine. Okay. But we have zoning for a reason. It was originally two and we the city of Albony when they redid their thing in 2019 and they did a new historic zoning plan they added another story because they are taller buildings. We don't need nine units in this building. This is not New York City. We're not putting people on top of people. Okay? We have a nice neighborhood. And anyone that says from Philip Street that says, "Oh, parking is plentiful. Come live in my neighborhood." Especially on an alternate parking night when you have to walk five or six blocks in downtown

Albany because in the middle of the night because you got home too late and you can't get a parking space in the neighborhood. There's not a lot of parking which is why we have problems with St. Joseph's church redevelopment. There's no parking in the Timber Triangle. This is his Sorry for speaking so fast but I only have 30 seconds. There's So I'm going to write a letter to to and I'm going to send it to the people that have this property. People come from out of town. They buy this property, they think they can make a quick buck. It's [ __ ] Okay. If you buy this property, you need to know what the neighborhood expects, what the historic properties require. I I'm sorry. I pay my $1,200 for windows when I need to replace the windows. That's the game. Okay. Sewage is the game. Parking is the game. It's not here. Okay, thank you. Uh Wendle's not uh Dr. Brenda Robinson. I will not try and pronounce it. Sh. No. Cheryl Young. Oh,

are you Cheryl Young? I'm Cheryl. Yeah. Thank you. Hi. Hi.

I'm Cheryl Young. I live in the Tamber Triangle on Tamrook Street. Um, I submitted a letter and that gives the gist of my feelings, but based on what I've heard today, I'm just going to touch on a few topics. I can't help but hear it screaming through this room that this is about investment and not investment in our historic neighborhood, but investment to recoup back what may or may not have been greater risk than you anticipated. Um, as anybody does with a business, they take risk and that is not unique to this business. That is the market, COVID, tariffs, unforeseen expenses. I believe those are actually also usually built into a budget. Um, some of the things that I've heard that I've quoted that make me uneasy and make me feel like my neighborhood and my neighbors are not being considered in this. I applaud that you want to bring this blighted, you know, facade into, you know, use. We do need that, but we need it tempered with our neighborhood. To me, the blight of that facade is a lot less than five stories. To me, when I see five stories, I see too many people. I see potentially, yes, 18 people with uh each possibly having a car. We don't have spaces right now for the people who live on the street. The problems that I'm hearing with, and I'm quoting, uh where is it? We're already in the hole. Nine units is nothing. This makes the project feasible, not my neighborhood's problem, not unique, and not within historic code. Not, you know, we follow all historic guidelines. No, three units is historic. Maybe asking for a few more units would be reasonable, but nine units and boasting

maybe even we could do 10. This is our neighborhood. We like the sighteline. We don't want this monstrosity. To me, that is offensive. Um, why have those options not been considered? Um, this makes this affordable already in the hole. Um, what else? Hardship with a sue or hardship with this, hardship with that. Our neighborhood cannot take your risk in business venture. you need to please try to make this fit into what is reasonable and what is fair to us because a lot of the people living in that neighborhood are owner occupied and as we see these things happen this is our neighborhood being dragged away and not considered and I we are not okay with that um the housing crisis yes let's put some units in but not nine when you look at that building it's It's just it's terrible to me because when I look at my Chamber Street, it's gonna go out of time, but the rest is in there. I appreciate your time.

Anyone else would like to speak tonight on this project?

Um, I'm Andy. I live on first as well. I I think there from the things I heard like I mean I think the like putting in units is a good idea. Um I took some issue with the the comparison of like oh yeah like two blocks away there's these like 50 100 unit building that isn't in the triangle is a totally different area. Um I know people who live in some of those types of units they have like their own trash room. They have their own parking lot with parking garage. It's a like very different uh very different kind of situation I think. Um I also I think there's like some characterization of like the I mentioned the like the blight um right is like the triangle itself is not actually full of like vacancies or particularly rundown buildings. It's it's I like I don't tend to use like nice or not nice, but like I think it does have like a character. Um but it's not that it's like oh this is like we're in such need because there's like oh it's such a like rundown neighborhood. that's like desperate um for filament. Like I think the the white door on the front of the building's kind of an eyesore, but the rest of it's like honestly not that bad to look at when you walk by. Um and I I I haven't been I know you guys were getting this, but like I haven't been particularly convinced from what I was hearing that like I I do think it's like we should move for like affordable housing that people should live in. It's also my understanding that there's also a housing need for units that have more than two bedrooms with people with like multiple children like where families could be moving in. I didn't hear anything was particularly compelling that like you couldn't rent it fewer units for a price that like you know is more than what I I no estimates were provided in this but it wasn't particularly that it's like not economically feasible to rent it

more than just like I have this we have this desire it's our thing to put in affordable housing however that's defin I don't know how that's defined here um So, it wasn't I wasn't particularly convinced that like the neighborhood wouldn't benefit from more bedrooms, slightly higher price. Could that still be affordable for people looking for, you know, a threebedroom unit?

M I S.

Uh, anyone else? And this is a live meeting. There's no one online. Uh the applicant has an opportunity to um rebut to the board. Um again addressing the board if you want to uh feel you can come back and you know um thank thank you. We appreciate the uh the neighbors making comments. Can you just come up because it's recorded and so forth. Yeah,

sorry for step. So, uh we appreciate the neighbors uh and the board's comments. We're going to take everything uh and I guess come back and be able to respond. We're going to reach out to to some of the neighbors if we can and establish a dialogue and we look forward to coming back and uh having more definitive answers and maybe a better direction. Again, this is our initial presentation and we really appreciate the opportunity. Yeah. Um, I think I can't emphasize enough uh reaching out to the neighborhood association.

Thank you. Oh, just can I just add also in this area we did reach out to the representative uh Miss Joyce Love who is no longer the representative but when we were starting this project she was and she has a letter of recommendation for this project. I saw that. Okay. Yeah, probably a good idea to try and reach out to the current council member. Do we need to motion to hold this over for the table list for our next meeting? Yes. And do we have enough? Okay.

Do we need to do this here? Um I think I can wait. I did note action.

Um area variance uh 2025-4 for should we read the recommended action out loud people in back might not see it everyone can I'm going to read out the recommended action in case people in the back can't see it uh the chief planning official recommends deferral of AB 2025-4 for 41 street until such time that comments have been satisfied um I second your motion Uh all in favor I Yes.

So this is tabled um you know there will be notice for whenever this is back on the agenda for the boarding appeals. Thank you. Um we're going to take a short break before we move on to the next thing.

Thank you everyone. order. Um, okay. The next project is uh use variance 2026-1 for Madison the high assoc. Okay. And the proposal is to allow for new construction of Three stories building.

Okay. Thank you. Long time no see. So just quickly, yeah, you know, again, this is our first uh, you know, appearance presentation and we know that we're, you know, we got some work to do, but again, we want to uh, you know, to be responsive. We appreciate being here with the board and the people that are going to be making comments. We looking forward to that. Just to second that. Very excited to be here again. Uh this is a we know who you are already.

Okay. Yes. Okay. It's basically the same speech. You know, this is another I'd call it a white elephant, a problem case to fire in the past and other people have tried to come bring it back, but it just hasn't happened. I'll fall back on why it hasn't happened. Okay. So, same thing here. The city has filled in the basement and you don't really know what's under there. But this now this um we have to talk about this page. Yeah.

We can move on. He's the architect. So again, um

we're filling in between two existing houses on this lot. We've decided to leave space both for windows and to stay away from the neighbor's foundations. Now, we're very aware because one of my helpers been working on project 250 Clinton Avenue. Does everybody know that the big giant apartment building is now the building's up uphill tipping into the hole? So, we want to avoid that kind of situation. We know it's probably the same old clay as everywhere. So, we're giving ourselves a little buffer on here so we don't have to do what we did on Tenbrook Street. We do a super expensive buttress of the neighbors while we're doing our foundation. So that makes a narrow slot. So we're compensating for that for making it a long building and it's pretty sure it fits all the uh per impervious guidelines and all that. So still still in there. Uh same situation with facade. We're going to rebuild a historic looking facade which will be brick. It'll be three stories and a basement. and then come around the side. First eight or 10 feet of this building because we have the little alleyways on the side. So the first couple 10 feet will be brick before we turn to cement board for the sides in the back. This will be a typical flat roof going to the roof drains in the back and every unit will have the porch or the basement little patio type space. all um two bedrooms nice size the same same concept we're going here again part of our plan is to

especially with this being so close to the state workforce uh we don't like people moving out so we want our apartments to be big enough and nice enough that people stay forever so that's the concept here's good washer and dryer in every room.

And uh we did have some old photos in front of this building which was kind of I would say earlier than the other into the Gothic style of the rest of things. So, we're pretty much modeling after the couple buildings on our sides with our front facade. You know, nice big grand staircase in the front and entrance to the basement underneath that nice big windows. Uh, I should mention on too, both of these are part of tall buildings because that's the way it was 11 or 12 foot first floors. You see the neighbors on this street? That's tall and it's elegant and that's what we want to keep. So, because we have the alleyways, then we can put our a lot of windows on the alleys.

No wooden decks, right, on this one? Yeah. No, there's no wooden decks on. No, I think they're both both going to be steel. Yeah. Um that we engaged the uh mansion group. Yeah. And that was one of the things that they uh impressed upon us. They did not want any wood uh what is it called? Not balconies but decks. Like decks. So we can say that that they would be steel. Yeah. We made a presentation to that neighborhood association.

Right. And of course the front will follow the historic guidelines for the neighborhood and the whole district mansion. Yep. And same thing going on here. It's a narrow part a lot. We have to protect the neighbors. Going to be expensive. Um we don't know what the city left us in the ground there. So we got some contingency. I'm sure it's not not pretty. I believe they just push dirt into the basement there. And the same same bullet items here too. We looked at various numbers of units for proforma and we came up with this number eight that would make this work. character. Do everything we can do on the front to make it fit the character of the neighborhood. Yeah. Sorry.

Um, wait. Is there a colored one on the front? thought it just you're doing a great job, man. Don't worry about it. Just um can you tell us a little bit more about the facade and how that aligns with the properties on that block like something like the historical nature and all all the

like Yeah. Sorry. They all had that raised the raised basement which is really nice look on the street. The basements all have tall windows. This would be a brownstone basement up to the first sills and bl everything brownstone. And then up above when we switch to brick too, the the headers and the and the window sills will be brown stone as that the doorway. It's pretty much like a lot of the the buildings up and down the street. A lot of them are painted stone or painted brick. We don't plan on painting this at the beginning except for the woodwork and that. So it be the brown stone on the bottom. I thought pretty sure we had a color. But anyways,

um, and can you go back? You were talking a little bit about, um, I guess I heard you say something just, can you go back over um, not, you know, leaving some space on both sides of for the adjoining properties like

Correct. So, so that our part of the reason is so we get windows on the side and then the big our reason is to avoid damaging foundations in the basement. They're all they're all living in the basement. So this one, this one would have a 12 foot first floor to match the neighbors, but our total height would be in between the neighbors on both sides. All the buildings were are stepping down the hill. We would fit into that. So this this would be a 12T, then 10 foot, then 9 foot going on. And you said something also on the facade regarding the windows that you were trying to kind of match the other existing properties.

Correct. Very tall windows. Okay. More windows. Going back to not more just bigger. They have the large casement windows. This is how the other properties are set up for the design for windows is what you're saying? Yes, we all have very nice window treatments. Thank you.

And the reason the one in the middle is separated like that is because that's where the apartment wall is dead center. You know, the idea is to bling directly into the neighborhood, not to put a 2026 building that you would normally see somewhere else, but to extendedly go back to 1800 and make that front that way for that building.

Correct. And now we'll have that nice little fenced in entrance correct to the basement. Well, obviously I think the same feedback on kind of like the um quality of the financial evidence. So a um just kind of thinking in general on um I understand you did a lot of the performer uh in house you know there may be a value and you know for you to consider but of getting an expert to look over some of the numbers certify some of the numbers

um for for this kind of you know request and then going back to you know what the code the criteras are which really are for Nino I think we really need laid out again uh how you know how the allowed current allowed uses aren't feasible um whether it's the other permitted uses that are non-residential or whether it's you know meeting the requirement for the number of lake units for that area um I I think that's a really big um from my perspective that needs to be really fleshed out for for the application. Um I think looking at this um I guess also curious a little bit on the uniqueness, right? How is this bacon pots different than any of the other vacant pots in Albany? I know the other one which or I'm not I'm trying to look at this one in its own right but the other one has a facade which does add a layer of uniqueness to it although there are few other properties I'm sure nobody have um but you know one of the other big components is yeah how is this property different than any of the other big lots why should this one get an exemption from the requirement of the amount of units Yes.

Go back to again because the facade, the nature of the block, you know, it's it's a gorgeous block. Very few blocks like this in all and uh for us to make the front fit in with that, it's all going to have to be expensive materials and details. Yeah. Yeah, but on that point, right, if we're talking about just this block, this block specifically does not have or can you tell us if this specific block has homes or has properties with this many units? On the block itself, it doesn't like it's an empty lot. Um I said at the bottom, the eight unit actual minimum, but most of the other homes on this on this particular block are two and three unit.

Correct. No, that's not right. He said they either the minimum or the maximum at least on a block itself or five. We got the assessment here. Yes, I'd be interested in having that information. I think that's a great point. We looked at that earlier and I'm really good at that. And um uh I think the what we will also do is look at the cult's directory because just because the you know what the assessor has information about doesn't mean it you know it's what's actually there

right and I think if we're looking at as you all come back again trying to hold this property separate from the other but in the same vein in line of what is with the character of the neighborhood explaining why you know other properties may be able to support this many units versus what we're asking for here, which is eight. Um would be extremely helpful. Um especially if uh my friend Keith here keeps going back to the block itself, right? It is a particularly unique block. I work at the capital. I drive by it every day. Um right, explaining how the use that you have planned for it or that you would like to see it used for fits in with the character of that particular area. Um and how why it's financially impossible uh to go down to what I think the average is. uh this is Madison Place uh of five like why that's not feasible. Anything under 80 units would automatically be negative regardless of how long we actually have you know the property for um it can be developed you know responsibly or possibly at any unit count below a under 15 year long term um below seven units under 30 the project becomes unbable for anyone who owns it. Um even at seven units on 30 year the term uh the margin is so thin that the project is one vacancy away or one repair away from a loss. Now only the affiliation under 30-year uh term produces enough financial stability and DSCR are needed to track conventional financing and servicing the debt um and delivering a project that works for TA for the lender for the city of Albany. Um the use variance for eight units is no time preference. It's the only mathematically proven minimum necessary to make the property viable for anyone whatever it comes to development

and we'll work on getting some additional information on to support that.

I I just like to put another point in here too and I know the board already knows this but there's a term that we keep bandering around called bankable. And uh I like I said, I know you guys already know this, but the banks when they when they uh loan you money or who would loan me or my company money on this, they don't do it on 100% uh capacity. Uh let's say if there's eight units, they do it on six units because basically no one has 100% capacity at all times. So, that's part of being bankable in order for loans and everything else to do projects. I just like I said, um my apologies. I know that the board knows this, but that's something that has come out a couple of times already. And I I just like to say people understand what bankable actually means.

And so, just for this project, um you would also need a loan to make this work. Yeah. Um, this project I I think we had turning construction also. Look at this one. Uh, yeah. Was it 1.7? It was even more than that. I I have a Don't call me. It was 1.72. Both these projects are going to cost us at least $4 million to do. did because we did look at, you know, like you're saying, other, you know, possibilities and we got Turner, which is a very respectable company to to do a financial sort of review of it, but we will get we'll get more.

Well, we'll get others of course, but I'm just saying we go with what we have up here.

Part of our whole business concept is hiring people from the place that we are working at. And um it's not about a quick buck cuz it was a quick buck, we wouldn't be here for 7 years. Uh but you know, as any smart person does, even when a a person gets a mortgage, a loan or whatever, uh they usually don't go to one bank and they shop around for a different rate, uh different uh basically the same materials but different. And everything now has gone up so much. uh tariffs have played a part, different embargos that played a part. Whereas before you can get whatever you want from China, India and have it shipped over. Uh that's not the case really anymore. So everything has even quadrupled a piece of sheetrock. Uh used to cost uh six bucks.

And so just to make sure this project there's not a bank on board yet. No, we can't. We have we have Yeah. But you can't be bankable until I can tell them, okay, we have nine units here. We have 10 units here. We have eight units. We have six units. What do we actually can do, you know, with this? Otherwise, I'm wasting my time. And you know, as you guys know, time is money. So, we don't do that. You were saying cheap $6 and now it's how much? Uh 14 $18.

Yeah. Yeah, everything is has gone, you know, and it keeps going up. I'm not complaining. I'm just stating fact of of what, you know, I actually go through at the business. No complaints. I love what I do, but sourcing uh has made prices really go up. I mean, I guess you guys see at the grocery store, too. You know, I do. So, construction is no different. And we also pay our guys a living wage. I want I want to make sure that that's clear also. Uh we don't skimp on paying our guys. So that's not going to happen in any Tiger project that we have. We pay a living wage.

Um I think another thing just as a takeaway to get back to the board on is just confirmation of the total square footage for the proposed building. Um, and maybe also breaking it out per unit. Um, just so we can like and kind of as as possible, but also said that the planning staff help with assessing the density and comparing that to what's in the neighborhood and on the block. else now question. Are you is it better for us to get a third party outside to do the proforming speed things up? Um, I mean, I think it would help um to be able to establish, you know, um, you know, more certain evidence of the numbers you're advancing.

I would also be curious about what um, staff thinks about that as well. You agree or do you have a what's your view on this question? Yeah. Well, I think especially for this parcel in particular in the 2016 experience that wased for this um property for six units, there was a perform that was provided by the real estate professional sub couldn't say off the top of my head, but I know that you said there was a third party. You said there was a project already for 2016 on this on this the land.

Oh, so there was another developer that tried to do this in 16. Oh, I I guess they weren't successful. That wasn't us. No, but I thought it was Okay. Well, I I don't get everything. This team I you know that was news to me. I was like, "Wow." Yeah. I don't think we it was not included in this package. You didn't get it from your office. Interesting.

And I think it's important to keep in mind that through the new experiences, the rules that we have to follow in making this decision don't give us a lot of leeway. you have to meet all the criteria cumulatively. And one of the big piece of it is ramping the minimum variance to you know um to address the hardship and and so I you know I think that is key for into consideration.

Well, Madam Chair, this is why we're here. Um as I said, we've been waiting over two years to get to you. Uh we appreciate the time. Uh we appreciate the effort and we're going to do everything we can to show you our side of it and whatever decision you guys make, we will abide by it. Uh we do still have public comments. So thank you. Are we just missing uh for now? Yeah.

Do that. Um,

do I need to restate anything? Um, yeah.

Hi, my name is Bruce Pollock. I live on 53 Phillip. Uh, speaking for this project, too. Uh, similar logic, which is why I signed up for both projects, but this one we need to heart because I live right there. Um, I want to express something pretty uh about the uniqueness characters that was raised. Um, there are other buildings in the neighborhood that go to four or even five units that are acceptable there. They've not they're not recent builds. They've been there for a minute. So, there is some variety in the housing that is there, especially on Elm Street and down towards Grand Street. Um, I also want to emphasize I have a friend of mine that lives at one Madison Place. She lives in the basement unit. She's lived there as long as I have, which is the past three years. And her rent has gone up to $700 in the past three years. So, that area is experiencing a significant increase. I have neighbors that talk about when rent used to be $400, $500 per unit down there. That is no longer the case. I myself pay over $1,000 for a basement unit, and I live by myself. So, again, we are in a housing crisis. We need some new housing being built, and I think this project is a great way of doing that. The historical facades are excellent. uh the company and the builders had all been in contact with the neighborhood association for quite some time and had meetings and presentations. He actually called uh Sam Fine who was a then county legislator and or now chief city auditor and talked about things at length. So there's been significant public comments and public impacts and explanations. Um I believe there's and y'all can speak to this later. I'm not trying to direct, but I'm just saying that there was some discussion about email trying to make sure that these didn't turn into short-term rentals, that these were only apartments for the people for affordable nature. I feel like that's been conveyed through the comments as well. Um, and then finally, this is also a neighborhood that does in fact have alternate street parking. We deal with it every week as well. And I you can drive around, you can find spots if unless there's a significant construction barrier on a street that presents a problem. But like they mentioned, it's on it's near the state. There's a major bus line that runs through some public trains. It's an

option. We have bike racks nearby that are also an option. It's across the street from a very lovely park that lost its fence. We would like the fence eventually in some form or function, but that's not what this is about. So like it's a lovely apartment space. It's a lovely vehicle space. I think genuinely this is a good idea. I would really like to see some housing put there. I would be okay with anything between six and eight. be okay with more, but that's just me. But I think the neighborhood the neighbors as a whole feel have been listened to. They've been discussed and I think that's part of the message I want to convey as opposed to the last uh other project where there seems to be some bumpiness that was incurred. Uh and then finally um for this type of unit um trash and uh density concerns, it would be very unified. It would be very easy and similar. And the fact that there are alleyways also means there's a spot to put a trash can if you don't want it in front of business or excuse me property. And with that, I'll go with 5 seconds. Uh Daniel.

Uh and so you get six minutes as a You don't have to use it all. I probably won't. It's good enough.

Okay. Uh yeah. Good evening members of the board. Uh my name is Sam Fine. I live on Grand Street, so it's right around the corner from Fort Madison Place um Mansion neighborhood and I also serve as you know as the chief city auditor for the city of Albany. And I'm here tonight to speak in support of the proposal for Madison Place. Um I believe that this is the type of investment our neighborhood needs and our city needs. Uh first I'll go over some of the reasons I support it. So, first of all, you know, it's been t has been talked about a lot. We're in the midst of a housing crisis. Demand is far outstripping supply and research consistently shows that building new housing, even at a small scale like this, helps stabilize rents across the board. When we don't build new housing units, which we haven't been doing nearly enough of, the same people are competing for the existing housing stock, which drives up the housing prices for everyone who displaces residents. So if we want to make Albony more affordable and we want to grow our city and welcome more people here which I want to do and I think we you know many of us share in that goal we have to build housing. Uh second this in this is an infill development which is a win for walkability and environmental sustainability. Uh when we build housing in already developed areas near public transit and jobs we reduce car dependency and carbon emissions. This is, you know, you compare development like this infill compared to, you know, a suburban sprawl, an area that isn't developed, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly. Studies show that densely populated areas, people generally uh much less carbon emissions per resident than more sprawled out areas. Uh, promotes walkability as well. Um, and we're using the existing infrastructure that's already there. And then as chief

city auditor um want to point out some of the financial benefits of the city. Uh we need to grow our city's property tax base that will help us bring in more revenue for the city and reduce the tax burden burden for existing residents. So for years this property has sat as a vacant lot contributing very little in property taxes. And I did some research. the the vacant lot is assessed at 51,000 and in 2026 the total tax uh the total city property tax bill portion for the city was about $559. Neighboring properties bring in significantly more tax revenue in 2026. Three Madison Place paid about $2,300 in city property taxes. Five Madison Place paid about 3,800. Six Madison Place about 3,700 in city property taxes. So four Madison Place would have slightly more units in some of these properties. So it's likely the assessment would be even higher. But even if it was assessed similarly similar similarly sorry similarly to the recently developed five Madison place which I believe is either five or six units could be wrong. uh but uh that it would bring in $3,826 in taxes annually, which is a $3,266 annual increase over its current tax bill. So that's a significant amount of revenue uh for our city year after year. And that's not even including the property taxes that will go to the school district and the county. So we talk a lot in our in our city about how we have a structural revenue problem in our budget. Uh many of us have heard over 60% of our property tax in the city is tax exempt. Uh it's all the more reason that we have to make good use of our existing uh lots that are sitting there vacant and build on them to bring in more revenue. Now I want to say, you know, I've spoken with many neighbors, you know, some

people supportive, some some people opposed, and I I understand people have concerns. You know, I listen and hear them out. I think it's important that we listen to all voices, but I also don't think any project is ever perfect or check or checks every single box for every resident. However, often we say as a community, I hear this a lot, we need more housing. We're tired of seeing vacant lots and blighted buildings. But if we make excuses to reject every specific project that comes before us, we will never make progress. So, we cannot solve the citywide housing crisis if we treat every individual lot as an exception. If we reject uh if we reject this variance, we aren't saving the neighborhood's character. I know that idea of neighborhood's character has been brought up a lot. Um but this is a beautiful historic street. This building fits in nice with the neighborhood and currently there's a large hole in this beautiful street. This would be a major improvement in bringing back to life uh bringing back to life this street. I also know that, you know, if we if this is rejected, we may be sitting on a uh vacant lot here for the next 10, 15, 20 years until someone else comes along with the plan if if they they're able to get through the process. So, you know, we have a developer ready to invest over a million dollars to help heal a wound in the urban fabric of this street, and I believe we should welcome that investment. So, I'm asking the board to uh approve this variance and allow for Madison Place to finally return to its historic use and help improve the neighborhood.

Thank you. Almost all six minutes. Terrible. Thank you.

He was short five seconds. I think um the applicants has an opportunity to always rebut. Wait, are there is there anybody else? Oh yes, sorry. Anyone else on this? I think they're done. No one online. I am nothing but you guys ready to move on this one now take on this one. Um yeah, make sure you take a look at get the written comments as well. Um yeah, for next meeting as well. Yes. We now we have some work to do and we we look forward to it.

Okay, great. Thank you. Uh okay, motion table or table. Second. All in favor? I I Okay, so it's tabled. We'll see you again in a bit. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Um, can I I can I send in my written comments as well while Okay, I'll start. I'm actually going

to take for everyone to move out. My apologies.

Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. Okay. So, going back to the first project on the agenda that we table um to see if the applicant would show up. Uh that's project number 00624 for 195 Avenue. My understanding is the applicant is still not here tonight. Um we're still going to move forward with um discussing this item as a board. Um there's been information provided. Uh we've also already heard this item. Um I know the neighbors are here and there may be other people signed up for public comment. Um so since the applicant doesn't care to provide any um further presentation of their application for an area variance um no uh let's go straight into public um and okay thank you um

can I just ask one question? Yes. I just want to clarify they haven't uh has the applicant provided anything additional between our last meeting and this noticed meeting in terms of the packet or the file. No additional material communication a few times obviously there were some scheduling issues for a number of meetings. Yep. Um but there's nothing new in the file or nothing file they did bring up to the varianision%

okay I'm sorry thank you okay Mr. and Mrs. Sure. I would like if it's okay with the board, I'd like to have Mr. Lizzy speak first and then follow them. Is that okay? Yeah, absolutely. Please come up. My name is Mike Luigi Jr. I actually live off of Daytona Avenue right now by Buckingham Pond. I know there's a lot of drainage issues in that area. Everything flows to that pond. Excuse me. Yeah, you can you can use this chair if you want. No problem. You can you can use that.

Public speaker, by the way. I don't do this often. I'm good at what I do, but not public speaking. No worries.

Um, so I don't know anything about the project that went on next door at 195. All I know is that the garage that was built, whether there was permits or not, is way higher than everything existing within the three surrounding houses. They also installed a dry well which is supposed to let water flow into it and then saturate into the ground which that area takes in so much water that they pretty much made a plugged up shower drain in between three houses causing their garage to get over a foot of water in it at some points as well as grade improper grading so that the surface water can't make it to the storm water drains in the street. We install a lot of those every day. they wasn't built properly by whoever did the neighboring project. Um there's there's two ways to resolve it. We could do an outlet pipe from their um or their installed unpermitted drywall drain into your city storm sewer which would go right into Buckingham Pond like it was supposed to in the first place instead of backing up between all the houses. There is also an option to put a drainage so well between the properties and get as much water surface water out of there as we can. But we would like for the neighbor to install a outlet pipe for his drain as well. If that

I'll give my time to you guys if you want. There's a time for me. Well, if you're done, you can just Yeah. Um I actually can you just for me? Um what was that second option? Can you go over that?

Um just there's a property line there with fencing and bushes on it. That's not really a true property line. And if there's no way to resolve it between the two neighbors, I would say put the drainage swale almost like a split driveway where they have stones in the middle. That way water can flow between both properties and make both um parties happy. All right. Thank you. Um you can move back and thank you. Uh so uh I guess initially um you just see for the record who you are. Yeah.

This wouldn't be I I would like this not to be part I'm just asking some procedural questions. Can I do that? Um uh that I assume miss Mr. Nood didn't submit any rebuttal. He requested the adjournment uh for the opportunity to do so. If he hasn't, um what decision will be issued by the board and when and how would that be enforced? Um the board will discuss as soon as your public comment is over uh if there's any interest in making any motions on this case. And so I think we'll get more clarity after tonight.

Okay. Um and also I I understand this is again procedural that Mr. continuities and non-compliance with not only the permeability standards. Uh I don't know how that would be enforced but also he's been directed to get to do regrading um and to get from department of general services engineer to prevent the ponding of water on his land and I don't know where that is and is that enforced by you if it's going to be enforced at all or by someone else. No, I think that's not part of the considerations for tonight's um yeah like meeting. It's separate planning and code matter.

Yeah, planning doesn't do any enforcement. It's all codes department. So if DGS or engineering has instructed him regarding the grading permit that would be their permit and their enforcement. Okay. So that's not really within your office. Yeah. Okay. Um um okay um

okay public comments start uh this past weekend Mr. Nud's backyard was once again shown to be unable to properly absorb and contain sufficient water. This time from melting snow rather than substantial rains to prevent the formation of a very very large pond in its backyard as shown by our photos and the dumping of torrents of water onto our neighboring property resulting in the flooding of our garage and driveway as shown by our photos. Another photo demonstrates that the water emanates from Mr. Nud's property as noted by Mr. Louisie. Mr. Mr. Nudy has in effect transformed his backyard into a big basin with a drain that's totally plugged. A drain consisting of a big pit dug by Mr. Nudy and a totally inadequate drywall dry well installed by him. Mr. Nud's self-help remedy has vastly contributed to the creation of a hazard with a pit and drywall combining to force accumulating water to oversaturate the surrounding top soil which graded downward toward our property and oversaturate surrounding underground waters as well causing the subject ponding and flooding. I believe that the record has not yet reflected the fact that Mr. Nudi has exacerbated the flooding issues by constructing a stone filled patio in his backyard adjacent to his house which patio slopes downward thereby feeding more excess water flow uh into his inadequate drain. As a result of this flooding um we contend that he should be complied to meet the permeability standards and add level permeable areas to his backyard which prevent the subject of flooding. Uh, and as I said, there there is the issue of code enforcement and and seeking forcing him to regrade. He should be compelled to install a pipeline that connects the pit and dry to the storm sewer and disposes of excess water. It's

imperative that any remedy proposed by Mr. Nudy be first approved by an engineer. Finally, any steps to be taken by Mr. nudity is mandated by this board should be subject to very strict time limits with stiff penalties imposed for any delays uh in full performance. Uh as far as any uh Mr. Louisie referred to a second option with a shared pipeline there there isn't sufficient room uh between the two. Um Mr. nudity uh has not been in any way cooperative. I've not spoken that he doesn't want to. I would say that if we were right here, I I said before. So, I don't see that as a viable possibility. Uh but but I think that his u pipe flying into the citys is a viable opportunity and it's it's it's it's hurting us. A lot of time has gone by since the last meeting and meanwhile we're suffering damage to our property. Thank you very much.

I got three minutes.

Okay. Um I'll be quick because um I have to ask the question at the end of has he does he have did he have permits? That's the question I'd like to have registered to forget the answer. Thanks. I'm Judy Sher. Sorry. Okay. For reasons unknown to Ed and me, the owners of 195 Uklid Avenue, our neighbors built a very large garage a few years ago on land they had built up with loads of I assume dirt and sand. I don't know the material, but we saw huge truckloads building up a hill upon which they built a huge garage. Okay. Uh thereby sloping down to our house and during rain events flooding our driveway and garage. We purchased 197 Uclid Avenue in August 1978 and had never until our neighbors changed their landscape experienced this extreme depth and breadth of flooding. Our property is suddenly devalued through their acts. As was discussed at our last meeting here and according to contractors we consulted, mainly the person who we trust most, Mr. Lizzy, it seems clear that in addition to the necessity for enforcing our neighbors adherence to the city's permeability code, an underground pipeline running from the area of their new garage to the front of their property is the only excuse me remedy we see to stop the flooding of both their land, which makes me very uncomfortable because I think of disease. It's just it's a a totally you know it's a huge pond that lasts for for days. Uh we submitted pictures so I

think I don't know whether you've seen the three that we submitted the new ones for this. Okay. Um that's it. Did I ask the question about Oh, the ice build up in the winter time just because of how much it was around the garage and the And again his whether or not he has had proper permits. Thank you. Thank you. I do believe for the record that there was permits for the initial work done. Um but yeah those permits

I have another couple of seconds that I didn't get. One thing that I um Sure. Um, do you know one last thing? Um, I'd like you to consider the practical problem of spring and summer coming on. Um, thank you. Um, okay. Uh, any discussion motion? Oh, anyone else wants to speak on it? No one away that we deny.

I second. Um, should we vote? No. To deny. Yes. Yes. I'm a yes on denying. Um but we needed a whole majority. So we don't have a vote that carries on this. Any other motion from the board tonight? I suppose we have to move to table

fight to the death to change people's minds. Um we have another

never. I move that we uh table this only uh until for the reason that the board is not uh fully staffed up tonight. Okay. Um second. All in favor on I

uh thank you very much. I guess we did not have a majority on the vote um on tonight's motion before an action and because we are short of board member tonight. Well, we're really short two board members, but we currently don't have a fifth one appointed and we have a miss other appointed board member is missing tonight. So this will have to be revisited at uh our next meeting which does noticing of the meeting maybe I can direct. Okay. Um the planning staff will be in touch with you for when this is back on the schedule for this.

Just one quick question before I get here. Is there should I just reach out to the water department myself and have them meet me on site just to kind of skip all this with you guys and kind of just press there's no skipping this um to some extent and I don't think you like I work with them often I just didn't want to no I mean you you're free to contact the water department but um the owners of the other property are the ones who submitted the application that we're reviewing and that is to uh grant a variance allowing them to um that would support the driveway that they built that does not need a they want us to give them an exception

for building too big of a driveway or a more imperative less permeable too big of a driveway for water improve okay yes can I clar so there'll be another date yes now will they be given a further opportunity for rebuttal is that Uh, probably not. No, I don't think so. And I'm not even sure that we would take public comment because we've done all of that. So, the the next meeting would just be for the board to discuss any motions. And the motions would be the actions you're going to take with respect to moving parts and we would be notified in the same way we were notified at this meeting.

Yes. And um if you choose to not appear at the meeting, you would also get notified of any decision we make. And that the next meeting would be in April. Um, most likely. Yes. Yes. So, if Nudy, if Mr. Nudy appeared at the next meeting, then what what would the consequence of that? Um, nothing else. Nothing. We just had to take action. No. So, I think we would just

Yeah. public is closed. Yeah. Um the other comments for other additional board members here or not repeat but hopefully get a okay so maybe in April Yes. So, the impervious block coverage, does that include the roof on the new garage? It's only for the driveway.

The impervious coverage is the entirety of the property. So, house, driveway, garage, the roof, driveway, patio, sidewalks. If Yeah, we have another matter to still. If you don't mind, can you um you know, you can contact the planning staff. Cards on the table. Yeah, there are cards on the table. Um the vein I have way more detailed questions than when we can solve it here. Okay. Thank you.

Suggested some things that he was contemplated doing to resolve the issue like a BM um and also others under I mean it's just they're just totally inadequate. I assume that an engineer would should review any further thing that he's going to be doing, right? because uh his self-help remedy before hasn't worked. I don't want to rely on that again. I assume there would have to be some approval of that. Um not necessarily for us to take an action. Not for you. Not for us to make a decision on the request. Right. Thank you so much.

Okay. uh uh project area variance 2025-17581 central a uh this is in the MUFC mixeduse form base central avenue the proposal is construction of 33 square foot closed panel sign the height 15 ft or 5 ft is the maximum height permitted in the MUFC district um yes that's it okay thank you hi Hello. Uh, thank you for your patience. No, understood. Thanks. Agenda,

understood. A lot of stuff going on. Uh, Sam Burton with Bowler Engineering on behalf of the applicant, Hospitality Syracuse, Inc., Mike McCracken, representative, Hospitality Syracuse. Um, here again tonight to continue our discussions about the post and panel sign. I just want to just quickly make a clarification just based on what we saw. Is there will there be no decision rendered tonight based on the fact that we're missing zoning board members

or necessarily like um the board can choose to just table or can choose to yeah like the board will see if there's any question I would just I was just trying to save everybody's time if it was and I I appreciate that. Um I'll try and make it quick and concise of what we have done to get to this point um since our last meeting but

I appreciate that. Yeah. So, we're seeking a variance of 10 feet for uh an allowed five foot tall detached sign. Um we're proposing 15 feet uh within this zone. Um at our last discussions, we mainly focused on a few um important topics including location and safety, lighting, the neighborhood feedback alter um and the beautifification of the sign. I would I would add that one in there as well. So, I wanted to start with um location and safety. So, the location of the sign meets the uh form uh MUFC uh setback requirement. Uh we are pulling the sign forward as you can see from the existing location of the right aid sign, but we do meet the setback requirement and we're dodging some water lines in there as well. Um, we also had a a third-party traffic engineer, professional uh, professional of traffic operations and efficiency, Gordon Stanbury with GTS Consulting provide a letter uh, that was submitted as part of this uh, to the safety of the site distance questions that we had about that um, at the last time. I think he did a great job of summarizing and providing the conclusion that the post and panel sign is set well off central lab by approximately 38 ft. The sign will not impact intersection site lines along looking east along central abs for motorists exiting the site. But importantly, he put in there as well, which I think was another good uh question by the board that it will not impact traffic operations on Central Avenue. So that's motorists entering and exiting the site as well as motorists already transiting Central Avenue. Um as far as the neighborhood um feedback, we did reach out to both neighborhoods associations as it straddles this property. Um we were able to pro um

receive a letter of support for the variance uh on behalf of both of them within one letter. Um Mike handled that himself. We thought it would be very important from the applicant uh not the applicant's representative to show that he's invested in the community. Um lighting uh we confirm with the sign vendor and our lighting professionals in office that the lighting based on this posted panel sign would be negligible to any impacts to motorists or pedestrians on that sidewalk. And the beautifification of the sign uh there was some conversation. We added a brick base to I believe is 18 to 24 in not to impact sight distance and that will be complemented with some nice plantings and that brick will match the building. Um and there's just a nighttime render of the um proposed sign and that's a halo lit back lit. So the letters that you're seeing the taco and bell letters as well as sign are not illuminated. there's no uh transparency of those letters. It's actually illuminating the back of the sign. So, um with that, you know, we're the applicants obviously well invested into this site with the existing Taco Bell already remaining. It's very important for this sign also for the Taco Bell with the uniqueness of the site and the setback, but the proposed tenant on the site as well. uh marketability. They're really looking to get uh to drive another tenant in there and that freestanding sign for pass by traffic is vitally important. With that, we're seeking your approval tonight for a uh variance of 10 ft um from the code of 5T.

Any questions? Um just can we go back to on the um traffic safety kind of thing? I think one of the items that we discussed um at the last meeting was also with a compliance sign. So 5 foot high sign instead of the 15. Um would that have a negative impact on traffic safety? Yes. because of turning in.

Yes. So, DOT specifies the site distance um as 3 and 1/2 ft off the ground. That is looking left, looking right. DOT states that a 3 and 1/2 foot um sight visibility triangle be evaluated from that point. That's essentially you sitting in your car and your eye distance in certain vehicles. Um, it's our opinion, the opinion of the the traffic consultant that that would be more of a hindrance to traffic safety than the proposed signage. And we are allowing a sight triangle between 2 feet and 6 and 1/2 ft between the bottom of the lowest sign and the top of the brick on the um landscape area around it. The brick base. Thanks, Thank you.

Um, any motion? Any questions? There there's one other slight item that kind of comes to mind when we talk about putting bring the sign down to the ground is that this type of sign has a there's post that these letters stick off of and you know having it up in the air keeps it out of hand and having it down on the ground near the sidewalk kind of could become a magnet for you know passers by to mess around with it, you know, and then you put the bottom panel would be less than a foot off the ground. Catching kicking distance, it's it's right there where if it were, you know, elevated is a lot less of a chance of anything happening to it or or content, you know, maybe happened to and thinking about that too with where it is on the sidewalk, that's that now that lighting is eye level, whereas it's up in the air. you're not going to have that any shadow or anything like that where that's right at you know five feet I'm six foot you know that's that's what most people are seeing it but yeah I think that's a good point too as well

and um before anyone says anything there's no one in the room with public comment there's still no one making sure nobody else just just confirming it for the record before um entertaining action from the board. No. Okay. You want to motion? No. I will make a motion to approve area 2025-17. Second second. Uh wait. Uh, did we need to do

Okay. Uh, so I make a motion to approve area 25-17 and issue a negative declaration for this unlisted action. Okay. I got a second. Uh, Jalisa, how do you vote? I'll come back to you. So, how do you vote? Yes. I vote yes. Sorry. I am going to be a no vote tonight. Um, but I will make an unhelpful motion to table this until such time as we have a full uh board in order to be able to take a vote.

Thank you. Is there a second? I'll second yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. Um, we'll come back. I I don't see our application changing. Um, just keep that in mind, but appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Do you have a full board or do we have to refill a seat? Is there a seat that needs to be filled? Okay. Yeah. Yep. Okay. All right. Thank you. Appreciate

it. All in favor? Thank you.