Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Miss Talley, are we on? Are we on on your end? Perfect. All right. Well, good evening, everybody, and welcome to the July 20th, 2026 regular meeting of the Township of Montclair Planning Board. In accordance with the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act, the official Electronic Publication Act and the amendments to the notice provisions of the municipal land use law, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by posting a copy of the notice on the first floor of the municipal building. Also on the township of Montclair's official internet website and on the statewide legal notices listings of the New Jersey Department of State.

This meeting is being broadcast live on channel 34 and is streaming live and will be available on demand on YouTube.

This meeting is a quasi-judicial proceeding, meaning that the board has powers and procedures resembling a court of law, and we are obligated to objectively determine facts and draw conclusions from them in order to provide the basis of an official action. Any questions or comments must be limited to the issues of what the board may legally consider in reaching a decision, and the decorum appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times. The fire exits are to my right, which is your left, and also the back of the room. And next up is our roll call.

Mayor Baskerville.

Present. Good evening, everyone.

Mr. Borshaw.

Present.

Mr. Campbell. Present. Councilor D'Amato.

Present.

Ms. Gaines. Present. Vice Chair Graham. Here. Mr. Ian Walley.

Here.

Ms. Willis. Here. Mr. Orbea is excused. Ms. Wallace here and... And Ms. Wallace is also excused. I probably forgot to note that. Yes, thank you. And Chair Broda.

I'm here. And next up is the swearing in of our board professionals.

Do solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you may give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you both.

Okay, and before we get to the approval of minutes, application 2959, which is 116118 Walnut Street, Grafton Inns, LLC, is not going to be heard tonight. It's going to be carried to the second meeting in August, which is?

August 17th.

August 17th at 7 p.m. with no further notice. So no Grafton Inns tonight, August 17th, 7 p.m. Okay, thank you. All right, next up is the approval of our minutes from July 6.

And I received your changes, Keith. Are there any other changes to the minutes? Is there a motion to approve?

A motion to approve.

Second.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Abstentions.

Abstentions.

All right, that brings us to application 2973, which is 586 Bloomfield Avenue, High Hills, NJ, LLC.

My first time here, do you prefer standing presentation or sitting presentation? It's totally up to you.

If you'd like to stand, then by all means. If you'd like to sit, that's fine. Your witnesses can just let's just make sure that you're on the microphone if you're standing.

Good evening. Stephen H. Merman of the law firm of Javerbaum Wargift appearing on behalf of the applicant. We appreciate you coming out tonight, middle of the summer, but as with everything, we can't always predict when we're going to have an application on, especially when we have an application that absolutely meets all the conditions for a conditional use. So we're here for that tonight for High Hills Dispensary just to get a couple of preliminary issues out of the way. I was asked by uh, your attorney for a, uh, copy of the landlord's consent. And I am submitting that now as exhibit a.

Okay.

And so with that, we should probably mark some exhibits before we get rolling.

Let me, let me mark, uh, read the exhibits cause they're pre-marked.

Okay.

A one is the application. A two is the certification of taxes paid. A three is the proof of publication. A four is the affidavit of service. A5 is five sheets of photo images. Undated. A6 is the property survey prepared by Gary Moldovani, dated April 1st, 2025. A7 are the architectural drawings prepared by Stucky Vitale Architects with a revision date of July 15th, 2026. And A8 is the planning report dated June 3rd, 2026. And A9 is the certification of ownership that was submitted today.

Great, great. With that being said, I'm here on behalf of the applicant, which is High Hills NJ LLC. They are a New Jersey licensed cannabis class 5 license and they have obtained the necessary licenses to proceed with this application with the township of Montclair. So this is one of those matters that for an attorney it's very easy matter to proceed because we're just going through a checklist. for the conditional use but before i do that i would like to introduce representative of the applicant who is going to provide just some operational testimony so the board is is familiar with how the site is going to operate and then we'll go through the plans and exhibits with her and that would be paula gibbons greetings

I do. I didn't even ask it yet. I mean, you're jopping at the bed. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Would you please state your full name and business affiliation for the record?

I'm Paula Gibbons. I am in-house counsel and more directly impacting the day-to-day, the director of compliance. I'm a former federal attorney with the National Labor Relations Board who thought it would be a good idea in 2014 to go into the cannabis industry. And so I've become an expert in the cannabis industry and had the privilege of working Serving many, many, many, many owners and opening and serving as the director of compliance for many dispensaries. So the overview, and my role, my specific role is Make sure the construction is compliant with your ordinance and the CRC's regs. And also best practices in the industry, which sometimes means additional measures, additional safety, additional security. Once we're operational, my role is to directly supervise the manager. okay and I highly regulated businesses somebody in my my role plays pretty active role in that because things happen and oversight is required and so I I apply the years of experience I've had in the cannabis industry to the oversight of the specific operation so we're seeking a class 5 cannabis retailer that's what this is New Jersey Cannabis Regulatory Commission licensed business the Ricky Patel I don't know if you guys know him from form his former ownership at the Grove Pharmacy he couldn't make it tonight he's an owner of the company local guy we the application that we filed with with Montclair one of the things that was important to the city was that we were going to employ fair employment practices right and It's really, when I've been here, sort of the equal treatment of people, it's really important when this room is full. And I can assure you that anti-discrimination, anti-harassment, equal employment, that's primary to us. We are going to employ, to start, depends on whether we start our delivery operation immediately but if we don't 15 people day one if if we start the delivery it could be up to 22 and hopefully by the end of year one 25 plus we've made a commitment already in a separate process to the city of Montclair to employ at least 50% Montclair employees. I hope that's possible. I plan to work with an employment agency if it's not possible and try to figure that out. Speed it up? Okay.

That was like a cheer for you.

Oh, good. No, you know what? I can form relationships like that. And if we're having a tough time attracting people from Montclair, I'll go ahead and work with an employment agency, right? I'll work with the county agency. version of we'll work with people right because the thing i love about this place i love that that you guys look like this i love that and i love that they look like that and i want us to be like that right um 68 hours a week we're going to operate 10 to 8 monday through saturday and 12 to 8 on sunday um parking's a big thing in Montclair. I know it is in cannabis industry in general, right? We have eight spots, which in Montclair, if you're not Cush, is great for a dispensary. And if you're 150 feet like we are from the municipal lot, we are from the Valley Road lot to our front door is 150 feet. And that lot has, I know they have monthly parkers, but they have also at least a minimum, as I understand, when I wrote this, to apply, 39 available spaces. And so we feel like with the way Montclair people do their business, which is park and walk, walk, ride, and then we're also going to offer delivery. And so we hope to mitigate that. parking issues and not create one for you by having the nearby municipal lot I didn't mention I assume he will that this was a former Dunkin Donuts right and this thing's been vacant it needs you know it needs a tenant it needs somebody in there and you know I feel like if the Dunkin Donuts

could handle the volume with our added dispensary i think that the municipal lot and our lot are going to be effective um counselor let's make sure you're on the microphone if you want to either use that or the handheld works you just might have to turn it on then hit the button so the light comes on okay then just make sure it's a little close to you so we get it on the record okay uh ms gibbons um

There are a couple of comments that are in the planning report. I just want to get those out of the way as we're describing the facade of the building. The facade, as you indicated, was the Dunkin' Donuts. We have not provided any sign detail at this time. No. It is the intention of the applicant to have signage that will comply with the Montclair ordinances. You don't expect that the signage is going to need any variance on that.

And we'll submit it to the historical board.

And you do understand that if there is any variance that's required, you're going to have to come back to the planning board. We know that. We're not going to be able to get any administrative approval on any sign that would be larger than what is permitted by ordinance. But I'm going to show you, and I know that the board has a stack of pictures. In particular, I'm going to show the picture of the facade, if everyone has that picture. If not, we can pass this around. Could you just describe what work is going to be done on the front of the building relative to the use by the new atmosphere?

And this is the exhibit that's already been provided to the board? Yeah. OK. So this exhibit. Pictures. Excuse me? Just which exhibit is it, the set of pictures? Just so we're clear for the record.

Oh, that is 5. 5. A5? OK. May I ask a question before you even reach that question? Yeah, go ahead. You've indicated that there are eight spots available, and I assume that's right next to the building itself. What is the relationship between either the facility, or the property, and those eight spots. How is it? Those are ours. According to the land, those are ours. Those are our spots.

Are they shown on any kind of site plan? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They're on the site.

Yeah. Maybe I missed it. Anyone else?

Yeah. They're on there. There's a detailed discussion in the site plan about the available parking and the narrative. Also, there's a detailed discussion about the available valley road lot as well and how the proximity of the valley road lot.

Let's go direct to the council's question. Council, I refer you to AD100. which is indicated as being the demolition plan? Yes. All right. If you note on the bottom of the demolition plan, the building itself, the round building, right next to that, you'll see the parking spaces on the outside of the building. They're depicted right there on the site.

So the property line of this property extends beyond, obviously extends beyond those parking spaces, right? It includes the parking spaces and the drive aisle.

So have you been, have you driven there? so when you drive in the parking and building is on the left and there's a building on the right and there's a planter that comes out about

We need to have you on the microphone.

So this much is, I think if you look on the survey, this much is like two, three feet. And the property line is just beyond that planter.

I mean, it appears from...

drawing a 100 that the neighbors the joining neighbors for pertinences and perhaps even part of their building encroach upon your property and if I own that property I might wish to address that I do not it we're not the owner as right I and so that may be an issue that the owner wants to address or Or it may not be. And one of the reasons it may not be is, I think, for those of you who've taken the back way to the Valley Road lot, our parking lot is the back way to the Valley Road lot. And, you know, I guarantee that, I don't guarantee, I would imagine there's not a municipal easement for that use. But it's convenient for me, you know, if I want to go the back way.

the parking lot and so that may just be a quagmire that the that the owner has not chosen to bite off so you have eight spots on site yes and you said 150 feet away is the municipal law the valley road lot and How many, do you know how many parking spaces are in there?

Yes. So your website has the data of how many spaces are there and then how many day parking spaces are available. I can tell you that when we submitted the application, the data that was available to me at the time was that there are 39 daily spots available. Okay. And then I presume that the rest were like monthly parkers. And as you know, as you can imagine, The monthly parkers that park there aren't going to be there every day. Most people aren't at their work all day every day. But I didn't want to exaggerate. The data I got was that there are 39 available spots.

While we're on the issue part, about how many customers are going to be in the store at any given time?

If we have delivery, once we have delivery, I feel that that will lighten the in-store load. We will be able to handle at least six at a time. We have issues of occupancy, but the flow of customers is not such that we'll have six people waiting and six people inside at every moment of the day. so I'm sorry what is that based on six people so it's based on my understanding of the availability my 12 years in the cannabis industry knowing that they're one dispensary open here another dispensary about to open and delivery available okay my best honest genuine from my experience estimation of how many people will flow through there regularly would be anywhere from six an hour to 20 an hour depending on peak times it's in in your experience

Is there another dispensary that you've had an affiliation with that's of a similar size and a similar nature?

No, and here's why. The dispensaries that I supervised in Ohio, adult use was not in what I would say full swing. People had not yet adapted to it. They still had their medical cards and there was still medical purchasing. In Michigan, I have a lot of experience in adult use in Michigan at really, really, really busy dispensaries in a good location and also a trickle dispensary. And so I am anticipating that our business will be less like the extremely busy location due to the proximity of others and the delivery which is why for me the delivery will be important to up our game on delivery.

What do you mean by delivery?

So it's a thing. The lawful delivery of cannabis in New Jersey is a thing and also a thing under the Cannabis Regulatory Commission's rules municipalities may not prevent cannabis delivery in their community. They can prevent dispensaries, right, through zoning or not having ordinances and approving resolutions, but the lawful delivery of cannabis is a thing.

And now, just- Let me stop you right there. There is, in fact, a separate license- That's what I thought. For cannabis delivery, correct? Just answer the question.

I don't know. So there's not a separate license. It's not a separate license. Here's what it is. It's a strict rule-based protocol of how orders are placed, how they're picked, who takes them, what security is available in their car, including video cameras. The hours, right? We will not be delivering cannabis in Montclair at

aside from the hours that were open for instance okay and so so you're going to be doing a delivery business out of this store here no yes as part of the services that they are going to be providing they will have the ability to do delivery there are delivery services specifically pursuant to a class 6 license which are not associated with any particular dispensary. So they are governed, the Class 6 licensee, which we are not. We're not a Class 6 licensee. Class 5 licensees can do, pursuant to their license, delivery.

Cush Connection, for instance, has delivery.

So the answer to the question is we're not a delivery service, but customers will be able to place orders for delivery. and that is pursuant to the licensing that they have from the state.

So you will have a third-party relationship?

Not necessarily. If you, as a dispensary, want to employ one of your own employees, the vehicle that they use has to meet the standards for the state, the same delivery standards that there would be for the third-party deliverer. And a dispensary can either elect to use one of these third party delivery services or to set up their own delivery service. So it is the intent of this operator to have some sort of delivery to the extent, initially, we don't know. The demand, again, is something that drives this type of service. And if there is sufficient demand by the clientele, in all likelihood it makes more sense to an operator. to get their own vehicle to do this. Others, and I'm aware of it, I've had my own Class 6 operators where I've had to get them approved to municipalities, where they do have to comply with the conditional use as well, even though they don't have any cannabis on site. So the delivery service, what they do, the third-party delivery service, they get an order. In fact, they have their own website. They send you to their various people that they work with, you place the order, the order is then picked up at that dispensary, it's logged because the, and I'm sure you've heard it before, this isn't your first cannabis application, we have the seed to sale model, that all of the cannabis is actually tracked. So even going through this delivery process, it is all scanned once it goes into the car, and then it's scanned when it comes out of the car, it's scanned when it's given to the customer, In all instances that I'm aware of, there is no exchange of cash because everything has been taken care of over the Internet or with cards.

Forgive me. I'm still a little confused.

Okay. Somebody else want to? We have to walk back. Sure. So when this was all set up, the architecture for this was set up, the state, the CRC made the possibility for Class 6 Category B to exist, and it was written into our code because our code was following model code. We have never issued a license, and we were told, and I think we discussed this earlier on, that there was no mechanism by which we could do this because there were going to be no local licensees. So we have no local licensees. And that part of our code is basically a dead letter at this point.

Are you talking about for deliveries? Yes, for deliveries. So I'm making sure I understood. Right. We have issued licenses for three...

Class 5 retailers, and we have one grower and one manufacturer, which we've increased to two, but we have not put it out to application yet. But there are no license distributors in our municipal office.

For purposes of this application, as we indicated, Ms. Givens is giving an overview. If this board were to indicate in its determination and based upon council's advice that a delivery by us under our existing license is not to be done, it will not be done. we are again we're coming forward with what we believe is our operational plan as with all businesses we plan but the reality of how something goes into effect as time goes on gets modified so for our for our purposes now we're going to withdraw that part of our application which deals with this operator doing delivery service.

I don't think it's this board's. I don't think it's in this board's remit. It's the council and the clerk would know.

We are going to comply with the ordinance. If the ordinance prohibits it, it will not be.

I'm not sure the ordinance prohibits it. It's just not it's not really it's being it's not been incorporated into our ordinance in any way because we don't have we've not been authorized as a as a municipality that can have this type of situation I guess well not as familiar with I think a statement was also made that we can't prohibit delivery well and you do have delivery you have delivery right now

can't prohibit a delivery service from coming into Montclair and delivering the cannabis, no matter which municipality it may have been purchased in. This goes back to, well, we got our lines. We got 100 municipalities that have said, cannabis is okay. We're going to sell it. We're going to manufacture it. And in some instances, and I will state this for the record, there is no ability for a consumption lounge here. Same thing as the The delivery service. Consumption lounge is not part of our application. Clearly, if your ordinance changes and you would like to

permit consumption lounge will be something that every operator I'm sure would consider but recognizing that it's not it's also part of the planning comments I want to stay for the record and so confirm it that there will be no consumption on site just so that I'm clear so if mr. Borsch off was to order some product from a place in Bloomfield and he asked that it be delivered they could deliver into Montclair to mr. Borsch off right

In fact, if Mr. Borschoff gets on Cush's website right now and places an order, they might have it here before our meeting's over if we take too long. So that's why I'm confused. How does Cush get away with that?

they're not getting away with it it's just basically it was first given discretion to the municipalities but as I and I was working on all this stuff and it's a nightmare but like it was basically telegraphed to us that it was TBA that we shouldn't worry about it we shouldn't issue the license and we shouldn't expect to be too involved with it and I didn't know because I'm not Mr. Borschoff, that this is even available. So it's fine. I think we should just kind of ignore it other than the issue of if there's safety or other things that are involved with a door and people driving up to the issue of security like an Uber Eats where you have something that you wanted that needs to be more secure than a taco.

All of the drivers are licensed by the CRC statewide.

Fine.

They have to take courses. They are monitored. These vehicles have to have a special GPS monitoring system.

They have video surveillance inside. And just so you know, Cush would deliver here tonight.

Okay. But they're not affiliated. This company, like the delivery service is not affiliated with your operation. No. They're just essentially like an Uber of this industry.

It's a Class 5 cannabis retailer license in Montclair.

But the question, I think the basic question is like, is this plan, architectural plan, does it have any special elements that have to do with delivery? No. Because you have a buzz through kind of a situation. Where does the delivery driver go to get the stuff? Into the waiting room?

Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. The delivery driver would be credentialed and would be allowed into the secure area and do their business. Leave the secured area like any other employee because they are CRC licensed. I'm not CRC licensed. I can't walk into a secure area. It doesn't matter what my position is with an applicant. We as attorneys think we can get away with everything. I've been stopped by my clients who have said, oh no, do you see that camera up there? CRC is watching that camera. You don't have a badge on, you're not going in.

Okay, Ms. Givens, in other places like in Ohio and municipalities that have more experience with it because we haven't been doing it that much, if there's a high volume of deliveries, do they have a separate entrance that they use ever? I mean, in other words... so that they're not crowding in with, you know... The employee entrance they can use. They will use the employee entrance. Yeah, they would use the employee entrance. And would you foresee having that work as well at this location?

The doors that we have on the side of the building, let's... You want to look at those? You've got two doors.

Chair Broduck, while this is being looked for, can I ask a question just related to what's in front of us right now? Because it seems like we're off. So it's class 5, and they have the option with their own employees to deliver if they wish.

If your ordinance does not permit that, we would not do anything without that clarification with the governing body.

So what's before us then is the retail store that may be delivered from with Class 6 licenses which are out of our control.

Actually, all that's before you right now is a conditional use permit for this use. It's not a site plan application.

Well, but we would still need to consider that.

Well, I guess my point is that I just want to emphasize site plan review is not triggered by this application. That's why we don't do a normal site plan level review. It's simply just a conditional use permit. That's the scope of this application.

Then why are we talking about parking? from inquiring into the operation of the applicant it was presented to us but it's not the operation was so we have questions okay so um how about like what's on the second floor there's no second floor plan is that not a part of the there is there is a a tiny little apartment

and a tenant on the second floor that is not us.

So we don't consider that at all because we're only considering the retail store.

Unless there's a safety issue, right?

And then if there may be delivery in the future, we can't consider how cars are going to park and so forth. This is solely for the use. That's it.

No, I actually think regarding to the conditional use permit, The issue of delivery vehicles is valid because you don't want to be in a situation where this use has four or five delivery vehicles that are parked in those parking spaces. I think that's a valid consideration.

Well, that's where I was headed because it's the classic... The Class 6 licenses that aren't a part of this still could be affecting this site because this site sells stuff that the Class 6 licensee could deliver. So it's appropriate to ask the question, where is that regulated vehicle going to park?

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Sorry to... And then forget about the second floor. We don't care about that.

Well, we care, but it's not...

So Eric, I'm still a little unclear about the regulatory aspect of this. The witnesses said that if somebody ordered from Cush, within a minute or two, they would get a delivery of product. Yet this applicant is not engaged and council has said they're not going to do that unless the ordinances change. Cush is here in town. They will be here in town if this is permitted. I don't understand what the What the difference is, and perhaps you can help.

No, I don't. It's just there was an easy area of the law that they basically, as I recall, said, just don't worry about it for now. And they sorted it out by making it not reliant on municipal approval. So most of these other functions or licenses have a much more intense local angle, which is that you have a retail establishment. being the most intensive one, and then you could have a grower manufacturing, which is much less. Basically, it's about odor in those cases. That's the only thing. And in this case, I think they just took it out of the hands of the municipalities, right? So if you have a classic license from the state, that's all you need to do whatever it is.

Not true. You would still have to, and I did this in Springfield just about a year ago, where I had to go in and I had to get a change of tenancy, just a straight change of tenancy type of application as you would for anything. right this use happens to be only a dispatch center they the vehicles of this particular use and i'm sorry i'm wasting all our um this client's time to explain this but the use that was being done in springfield where i had to get the approval in an office building was nothing more than three dispatchers right the once a day they had a meeting of all their drivers they at the beginning of the day went over whatever they needed to and then those drivers were were given their assignments in that particular one how he has drivers who did this the drivers were independent contractors all licensed by the CRC independently they were all responsible in his model and I don't know if this is the model he's still using but in his model They were all responsible, since they were the CRC licensees, to sit out their cars and put all the equipment in it that was required by the CRC. So these are people who are going to be driving Uber and then finish the Uber and then go pick up cannabis and deliver it to their next stop. It is solely, and it must be solely, that trip is monitored. However it starts, wherever it starts, CRC monitors that trip, makes sure that the cannabis gets to the consumer. There are fears of hijacking. Believe it or not, these are little cars. They are nondescript. They're driving all around us. And you don't even know. They're unmarked. They shouldn't be marked. I mean, that makes them a target. People know that they potentially are carrying cash or a product.

To clarify, though, that's the service that Cush is using, correct? They're not doing their own deliveries? I have no idea.

We're not here to talk about Cush. We do not know.

If I could clarify, Council Member DeMond, it seems to me that in our ordinance under the definition of cannabis retailer, we do include delivery service. but there's in our ordinance there's also another license category for its class B it doesn't I don't think that's separate that's where it's just delivery under cannabis retailer our ordinance says any licensed person or entity that purchases or otherwise obtains usable cannabis from cannabis cultivators and cannabis items from cannabis manufacturers or cannabis wholesalers and sells these to consumers from a retail store and may use a cannabis delivery service or a certified cannabis handler for the off-premises delivery of cannabis items. So I think it's already in our ordinance.

That maybe was what got added when we did that second round of amendments.

Wait, but is that the third party that they're talking about there? Both. So it said – I kind of missed where it said.

It can be either a third party or it can be, as it said here, or a certified cannabis handler –

Would that be somebody that you would hire? That would be the on-site.

That would be a direct employee.

A direct employee.

So the ordinance has been updated to anticipate delivery from our retail stores. I guess my concern is how many delivery vehicles will be stored on the site.

What we're going to do is this, right? We're here. We're testifying as to how we anticipate the operation is going to exist. We have no issue for the moment in indicating that initially we're going to use a third-party vendor for purposes of delivery. If the need arises, the applicant will take whatever steps are necessary. It's really not preferable to store vehicles like this unless they're in a secured location, and this is not a secured location. So it would be very difficult for us to have these delivery vehicles to be kept on this site overnight. And understanding the limited amount of parking, we certainly do not wish to tie that up. So I think initially it would be, and Nicole and I are obviously discussing everything with the client as to the operations, make sure that everything is going to be compliant with the approvals of the municipality. So for purposes of this discussion, where we may in the future need to come back with a site plan application because if we're going to start using any of those parking spaces for anything but the customer parking as it was when it was Dunkin Donuts and anything that may have otherwise been in that property, that would be a change to the site itself because we would have to put up a fence and secure the vehicle. So right off the bat, if they are going to use a vehicle, it's going to have to be stored off-site because they're not going to want to lose that, nor do they want to leave it there. And I know Montclair is a lot safer than it was when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, but we still understand where we are in location to Newark and the like. So you don't want to leave this type of equipment unsecured in a vehicle that could find itself being stolen off the street or an unsecured lot. So for purposes of this presentation, this application, we're gonna make that representation to the board that the delivery, if it becomes a situation where it makes sense to the operator hire that special handler because he's got to have a special license and to put the money into a vehicle because they have to put the money into that vehicle that's going to be a decision that they're going to make down the road but we just wanted to indicate to the board as part of this presentation that the number of customers yeah i go through clients customers but these are customers there's a retail operation that will be coming through the store potentially will be reduced because of the delivery option and that's the point that we're trying to get to the board that there are more ways to for the consumers to get the product than just physically coming to the store themselves Steve you know the problem that you have when your clients a lawyer yeah yeah I'm about to show you so I

as an operator I want the right to have to utilize one parking space for delivery right sorry to disagree with your client your client doesn't want to I will never lie to you guys and air I've known the City Council for a while I've been before you guys you can call me I will come here and stand before you anytime you want me to and tell you the truth. And the truth is, I would like the right to use one of those parking spaces for delivery initially.

But what Mr. Merman said is that the delivery vehicle must be secured and enclosed.

So it wouldn't be stored there? This is for the licensed delivery companies. That's the pull in and out. When these vehicles are empty, you want to store them someplace safe So when they're not in use, when they're not in use and when they don't have cannabis, they have to be stored someplace safe. As a non-delivery entity, one of these vehicles not in use, we would want it someplace safe, but I don't think the CRC is going to require me to put a fence up around an empty vehicle with no cannabis in it. That would be stunning to me. I'm not aware of that.

Okay. Just with the understanding is if you have to enclose a parking space for safety, then that's a site plan. That triggers a site plan review.

Absolutely. And look, as a former federal attorney who's spent her whole life trying to shove federal law down the throat of companies for the NLRB, you know compliance is is a big thing for me and there is there's no aspect of our operation that will ever be non-compliant i will fire the entire staff before i do that to this city so so the only way it seems to me the only way that the township

can learn about the change in your business model meaning that yes you've got people walking in and buying but if if your delivery operation mushrooms and you you start doing much more of that and I understood you to say that there's two ways for delivery there there is a third party yes will come and pick up from you and take it to the customer or your operator may in fact have his or her own vehicles for purposes of delivery the only way the township is ever going to learn about that it seems to me is if you want to store a vehicle on the premises for example overnight right which we would recognize that we know of course if that were the case but that but but otherwise it's you know the sky's the limit you can well so here's the limit the limit is my reputation with myself and and and and this is what parameters you set here if this is no wait slow down this is a conditional use yes permit application right it's not a site plan board doesn't have very much control over your word and what if my resolution will say that if your testimony is in any way false or what have you the whole resolution will fall I just want you to be aware of that but apart from that you know it doesn't matter what your word is it's like I think the township is concerned about how this business is going to develop is so for instance and and you'll have to excuse me for my ignorance of New Jersey land use law

there a way for you to as you approve this to say special condition is a limit to one dedicated parking spot for delivery service and at which point that that holds me accountable to the township and I'm otherwise it becomes an issue of enforcement how is that I would like to address the issue the issue is is pretty simple

The vehicles, the A parking spaces are dedicated to the use. No one else has the right to use those spaces. The delivery vehicle, if it should be used, would be parking in any one of those spaces when it's on premises and not out for delivery. You can put a condition that we don't store that vehicle overnight on the premises. Right. That would be a perfectly acceptable condition. I think that I would encourage my client not to leave the vehicle unsecured in that location. Every night it's going to become a target. So we don't have an issue with that. But I don't think that we are required, and I want to go back to the reason we're here for the conditional use permit. There is no parking required as part of the conditional use application.

I was just going to ask that. Okay, so it's not required.

We happen to have it. That's why we're talking about it. If we didn't have any parking on site at all, again, we would talk about there being no parking on site and where our customers are. would be expected to put their cars in order to come onto our property, which obviously would be on the public street and the public lots at that point. But we do have the advantage, and that's one of the reasons why this spot was very sought after by my client um before they they proceeded to obtain the license they had the location yeah because i wouldn't rely on that valley line i know you said it was 39 spaces but that lot fills up on valley but if there's no parking requirement that's kind of a moot and that's uh you know we we will um as the business as the business develops obviously they're going to be good corporate citizens they will be transparent uh the municipality has welcomed this applicant with open arms having gone through the withdrawal of the send and so we're familiar with with everything that this council and the planning board has done with regard to campus over the last three to five years we've been monitoring it one way or another as it related to that so we're not going to be proposing anything or doing anything that's going to put in jeopardy this relationship So if I can go back to the planning report so that we can just cross all the T's. You asked about the front windows.

That's where we're going right now. You did. Mr. Ian Wally still has a question.

OK. So this is a change of use. which has a parking requirement. Other townships in New Jersey, the 100 that allow cannabis, have parking ordinances which say specifically you need one per 200 or one per 250 if you have cannabis. So why would they have parking requirements for cannabis uses if this sort of conditional use permit is all you need and then those communities aren't I mean, I don't know why there's a parking requirement for cannabis if we're being told that we just ignored the parking. So I don't follow that. All I know. Well, I'm not asking you. Okay. I'm asking him. Thank you. Probably asking counsel.

Thank you. Did we submit anything? No, there's no variance application. No? That's before this board. This board, it's a permitted conditional use. Okay. We've met all the conditions per the report that we received and that the board's received. to your question right each municipality has the right in their cannabis ordinance to either include or not include a parking requirement for the use that would eliminate in this particular municipality if you if you were to require parking With the exception of this site and probably the Cush site, I don't know of anywhere else on Bloomfield Avenue that has its own parking lot. So that's a different.

What I'm trying to get at is whether it sells cannabis or not, there is a coffee store which is now there's a change of use. um it's still a re it's still a retail use and retail is one per 200 in our ordinance so it's still a retail store why as a board do we sort of ignore even if i mean we changed the ordinance up i remember four years ago if there was a change of use in c1 you didn't you didn't have to worry about changing parking the township council deliberately said if there's a change of use you must consider parking which i was actually against

I think it's if it's a change in use where the parking demand increases. This change in use.

No, it just says change of use. It doesn't say increase or not. No.

If the parking demand does not increase, Then there's no parking variance.

Well, no, the ordinance didn't say increase. It said change of use. I know that for a fact.

We can go back to the... We have not been applying it. If you go from one retail use to another retail use, we have not been applying that as triggering a parking variance.

Okay, so this is a retail use.

Okay, I accept that.

This is a retail use. Retail use parking requirements are 1 in 200. So because there was retail... and there's still retail, if this is being classified as retail, we still ignore parking, even though this retail business has a requirement of one per 200 in our ordinance. Where does the exception come in that just because you're selling cannabis, we ignore it?

It's not because it's cannabis, because it's not triggering, it's not a use that triggers additional parking requirements. It doesn't, it's not requiring extra parking than the Dunkin' Donuts.

That's correct.

To answer you, Mr. Borschoff, according to their parking table, it does not conform.

So why would we require a parking variance when this use requires no increase in parking from what was there before? Now, if it was going from one use, what we did before, if it went from one use to another use and the new use triggered a parking increase, we used to exempt that. That's what's no longer exempted under our new ordinance.

So that's why site plan approval is not part of this application is because there's no parking variance.

We have a new ordinance. I thought we just terminated an older ordinance.

When I said new, or it's been in place now for two years or several years, but what I'm saying is that that ordinance only applies. In a situation where the parking demand increases, then you have to get a parking variance before you are exempted from that.

Can we look at the ordinance that is applying? It's in our code, and we can look on our computers or whatever, and can we see the ordinance that we have to evaluate this application under? I would appreciate reading the ordinance. It's Article 17.

No, I think it's under, he's talking about the zoning code. You've got to go to the zoning code, 347.

347-17.2. And then that's it.

no that's that's that's not the parking we got to go to the parking code not 17.2 no this is just for cannabis establishments those are the conditionally in fact what is 17.2 no cannabis shall be allowed at a There's nothing in here that talks about parking for a cannabis use.

So then, if it's retail, we do have a retail parking requirement. And I'm struggling with the law and how it applies that a retail use is exempted from a parking requirement.

okay here's what exactly what it says tony section three 347-101 off street parking shall be required for all new buildings additions to buildings and conversions to a greater resident residential density or conversions to other uses which require more off street parking in accordance with the following schedule this does not require more off street parking than the Dunkin Donuts so it doesn't a variance is not created can I put is 347 347-101 101?

Correct, 101.

And this would have also held with 518 with the CVS night owl.

Right.

Which would have been exactly the same situation.

Well, a little bit different because instead of going from a food establishment, that's going from a retail to retail. That's purely retail to retail. The same philosophy.

Okay, and then the evidence that we have that this does not require more than retail is where? What evidence has the applicant given us tonight to show that it doesn't require any more than normal retail or any less than, that it shows less than, I'm sorry, equal or less than retail?

The circumstances are that when we initially did the table for the parking, we recognized the standard ordinance and we acknowledged that the Dunkin' Donuts itself didn't even have enough parking.

pursuant to the ordinance right so we are assuming and I hate to assume it's actually the issue isn't what requirement the Dunkin Donuts had it's whether you are increasing the if you have require more than what the Dunkin Donuts required so let me give you some tests that's that's the quest that's the question we would require as a retail use same amount of parking as the Dunkin Donuts would right in a variance yeah I believe that I believe mystery and while he's just looking for the the ordinance that explains that the cannabis use does not require more parking than then the Dunkin Donuts and I can help with this yeah so I

The online ordering in the cannabis industry, it's a thing. People who go to a cannabis store, they know what they want. And in most instances, they know that they want that packaged and ready to go when they get there. Now, what percentage? 65%-ish of people. and more, depending on the age group, right? Because the younger the purchaser, the more they order online. And so you've got about 30% of the people that are going to go in, stand there, chitchat with the person behind, talk about weed, okay? But a substantial, cannabis, a substantial portion of the people have ordered and they're in and out, okay? And so the type of business that Duncan ran of run in, get your coffee, get your donut and go, We're similar in that way because we have pre-ordering.

That's all fair. I believe that Mr. Inouye just wants to see that the ordinance categorizes them the same. And we'll try to provide context to show why.

All we need to know is how many seats were in the Dunkin' Donut restaurant. Because the parking requirement for Dunkin' Donuts is one space for three seats. I don't know how many seats were in the Dunkin' Donuts. None. I'd have to pull...

pull the old plane but I think we can assume that it wasn't 24 there were no seats classifying it as a restaurant I'm sorry what's that time there was retail it's not can Dunkin Donuts wasn't considered it was a restaurant there were seats in there okay mean okay one more minute and then I'll this Arthur was asking before do you have instances of like data do you have data to say okay because we've had a few retailers that really haven't taken off here in Montclair we had a couple that got started and got site plan approval but they never really opened up And do you have examples of other businesses that are like this that are in New Jersey and how much parking they require?

We had to make a decision in getting in our preparation for this evening. And I have on other applications presented traffic studies and traffic testimony. uh with regard to those applications because of the review letter that we received from mount claire indicating that this was the conditional use permit application that we did not require the variance we did not commission the study okay so i would like i would love to produce it if if i had commissioned it but we didn't commission a study um and and i don't want to start throwing things out um you know from other and what document was that that was the engineer's report

Who, where did this, who, what report allowed the applicant or told the applicant that they did not need to provide parking?

That would be the June 3rd report that we received.

That's my report.

Indicating that there was no requirement for the variance for parking, so we didn't go out and commission the stuff.

That was my report.

I'm thinking, Tony, that because the ordinance has a special provision for a conditional use, in this case for cannabis establishments, if it can be demonstrated that the applicant meets the conditions and satisfies those conditions, It essentially, forgive my use of the term, trumps the rest of the ordinance. Because the applicant is here before us for a conditional use permit, I think if they can do that, they can satisfy the criteria and the criteria in my view and the ordinance are like nothing but if they can satisfy the criteria then they get their permit okay so then we we're not here we site plan but if it triggered but if Arthur if there was a parking requirement that would trigger it parking requirement triggered under the conditional use I think Tony you just want confirmation of that correct

um am i am i misunderstanding before we were speaking about ordinance

No, I understand that there are other ordinances that address when a parking variance or a parking need is required and all of that. I understand that. But in my view, this conditional use permit, this section of the ordinance, is its own thing, to use the witness's term. So if the applicant can satisfy the criteria of that permit, then it can proceed. That's how I view it.

And that part of the ordinance is silent on parking.

Correct. And it doesn't go to any, it's part of the zoning ordinance, there's no doubt about that, but it doesn't reach the question, for example, if a site plan would say that you need X number of parking spaces or whatever the case may be, this is not a site plan. This is not a subdivision plan. This is not anything other than a conditional use permit. Suppose this was a new building. Suppose this was vacant. It's a whole different question.

But it would still have the same use, though. It still would be covered under that clause that you're talking about for cannabis establishment. It doesn't say if what the part of the ordinance that says new building is what Janice cited, 347-101.

Well, if it was a new building, then they'd have to come, no matter what, to build the building, they'd have to get site plan approval. Right. This is an existing building. They're only here for the conditional use permit.

In one segment of the building. It's just on the ground floor.

Oh, so if there's a new building, then the conditional use permit would not be even considered. No, it probably would.

Okay, I get it. it but if it were a new building they'd have to get site plan and then secondarily they'd have to apply for a conditional use permit for that particular use if that was what they were going to do so what you're advising them is that we have no ability to question parking right we can we this board is doing what the board is supposed to do it's supposed to look at this application in its context but The applicant is only before you for a conditional use permit, period, full stop. council I just want to have it on the record that your client is the lessee or a lessee of the building is that correct that is correct and the the lease that your client has with the owner of the property is not contingent on this board's approval is that correct

It's not contingent on this board's approval. In fact, the applicant has been paying rent to the landlord to keep the property available to us for purposes of this application. Of course, in the event, if we didn't get the license or if we don't get the permit, we have options under the terms of the lease because we're not going to be able to use the property for it. use that we intended to but we have been paying rent and we'll continue to pay rent initially here continuing as a month-to-month tenant and then a formal lease is going to be entered into once the approvals are there but the lease was not conditioned upon us getting the approval we've been leasing the premises and we'll continue to do so until we can ultimately terminate it And one of those conditions is whether or not we actually need this license. Our lease isn't contingent upon that right now. It's a month-to-month lease. It's a month-to-month lease.

Do you want to head back to the conditions of the conditional use permit, then?

I'll pick it up here. Well, I thought that was interesting.

What we have is we have a wonderful report that was written by...

Ms. Talley, with regard to this, it does go through what the conditions are of the ordinance and indicates that we have met all of those conditions. So the requirements specifically of the Montclair Code Section 3.

Counsel, I'm sorry to interrupt, but we have to have this in the form of testimony, not your statements, I'm afraid.

I was doing my closing statement.

Oh, we still need to establish the criteria under the ordinance.

Sure.

Well, it's your right to do a closing statement. I'm not sure you need too much after this.

I wasn't planning on putting any more testimony on, but if council feels the record is incomplete, I'm certainly not going to do that.

Well, that's kind of where I was going. I was like, we just need somebody to testify.

I'm already under oath. Thank you. Some of the conditions are mentioned in the letter, and the other conditions are in the ordinance. No home occupation is allowed. That's an important thing in your ordinance. There's no cannabis establishment that is housed in a vehicle okay that's different than allowing delivery I don't want to get go back there I can our buffer zones we've carefully measured and we meet the buffer zone requirements of 250 feet from the entrance of certain pre-existing public or private K through 12

How far are you from the nearest?

That is a quiz, isn't it?

Yeah.

And it's a good one.

Again, testimony is what we're looking for, right?

It's in the what page? It's in that report.

So I had a question about that. I mean, it looks like from the ordinance, it's supposed to be measured in a straight line from the door to the door. Paraphrase.

Yes. The primary entrance of the nearest pre-existing, K through 12,

Yes. So in the figure in Ms. Talley's report, it looks like there's a line drawn kind of around the walkway, which seems different than the way the ordinance reads, to my mind.

Then that must have changed. The ordinance used to say, not as the crow flies.

Did that change? I hate to say it like this, but it's in your memo. On page six, it says buffer zone. So I'm reading from... Page 6 of the planning memo, and it says in part, you know, the requirements set forth in Montclair Code Section 347-17.2 are as follows, and I'm going to read C, buffer zone. The primary entrance of a cannabis establishment may not be closer than 250 feet from the primary entrance of the nearest pre-existing public or private K-12 school, or child care center licensed by the state of New Jersey, the buffer zone distance shall be measured in a straight line from the geometric center of the primary entrance of the cannabis established to the geometric center of the primary entrance of the nearest pre-existing public or private K-12 school or child care center licensed by the state of New Jersey, unless... there is an impassable barrier within those 250 feet. And in these cases, the buffer zone distance shall be measured along the center of the shortest publicly accessible pedestrian travel path.

So that's what I did. Because there is a physical barrier as the crow flies.

What's the physical barrier?

The building itself. is from the front door of this facility you can't go in a straight line directly to the entrance to the nearest you have to walk around the building and I took the back route through the back of the building and there is a way to walk to the door of the child care center but you have to walk around the buildings gotcha so that's that's the interpretation of it is that if there's a building in the way you have to go around the building which that's exactly how this that's why that provision when this was crafted that's why it was crafted it so that you would measure if you can't get there in a straight line and you have to walk around a building you walk around the building

Okay, that's helpful. That's the interpretation I needed because I was trying to figure out what's an impassable barrier. The building does make sense, but at the same time, trying to think of where we draw a straight line. So if it was across the street... That's about the only time where you're going to... That would be a straight line. Then you can measure a straight line. Okay, that's helpful for me. I'm envisioning crows flying for some reason. Yeah, I was trying to just understand how we're supposed to interpret that, right? Because like some of the other application we've had, it met both criteria. Either way, this one I think was a little closer if you were to measure it as the crow flew.

And we measured the one...

valley or behind the Board of Education that was okay including that that's the Montclair Kennedy pre-k yeah I'm not sure that was measured but I don't know if it's closer than the Unitarian Universalist Church which was I think directly behind this facility I measured it but it's it was so far beyond there okay it didn't really let itself to be included in the report okay Thank you for indulging us. Me.

No, it's important for you guys to understand this in yourself, right, that you can understand what I'm trying to tell you. The other thing is there's a requirement that we don't operate in the unlicensed businesses, right, that your ordinance doesn't allow. And so by Chapter 110, and obviously we've testified that we're not going to do that. The other thing I wanted to mention in her report, It talks about the transparent requirement of the windows. There is delivery in cannabis, but there is no walk-up. And so if you've all been by the old Dunkin', You know, it had a walk-up. We are changing that. And so the facade will stay generally the same, except where there's a walk-up, there'll be a window that meets the transparency requirements.

And no curtains. You can't cover the window.

We want to be able to... No, and so what's nice about the cannabis business is it allows... you have a limited access area and a restricted access area, right? And so the access area behind the door to the back area where the cannabis is stored is restricted, and so you will not see it. Where I'm a real lawyer in Michigan, there's a half a million dollars of cannabis on the wall of some dispensaries. And that requirement really would not function. But for the way New Jersey operates, where we don't display on pegboards a half a million dollars worth of cannabis, that requirement works just fine.

And maybe just to be even more blunt about this, the facility is located on Bloomfield Avenue, right? 586. Perfect. I think that was the only other requirement I saw that you didn't necessarily testify to.

586. Ms. Talley's report has two other points that the applicant should address. You agree that any changes to the facade must be approved by the HPC, the Historic Preservation Commission? Absolutely.

And the signage, too.

yes oh absolutely oh absolutely yeah and then last on this Kelly's report is testimony regarding loading and trash management associated with this so there's two different ways of doing trash and cannabis one way is to

take up a parking space, have a nice dumpster, lock the dumpster and lock out your neighbors, or to do what we're going to do and keep it inside and take it out for delivery. The amount of cannabis waste that is in our business is extremely low. All of the products come to us packaged, right? We're, unlike Michigan, we're not dealing with 100 pound bags of cannabis that's open. The amount of cannabis waste we have is very limited, but you want you don't want to be an attractive nuisance honestly and dumpsters outside that are locked are attractive nuisances to kids and we wanted to save a parking space and and not do a golden closed dumpster and so we will have an indoor storage area where we transform any, as required by the CRC, transform any cannabis into non-usable waste material that's 50.01% by volume, non-cannabis, and then we can take it to trash hauler as they come by and so we'll have to schedule that and we'll have to schedule it on a time frame that works retail stores don't generate a lot of waste but if we generate more than you know once a week pick up then then we'll have to then we'll have to work with a smaller waste hauler who can get get through there and run by and pick up our waste what what actually

gets, in terms of loading, meaning coming onto your site, what actually gets delivered?

Boxes. So from a manufacturing site or a cannabis cultivator, they prepackage, okay? And they, just like any manufacturer, you know, a hundred grape ape gummies. some 100 milligrams some 300 milligrams right and on the box on the box is a yellow tag with a barcode that corresponds to the state tracking of metric right and and that's sort of the legal chain of custody this tag the tag started off on a plant way back when and then when it went to say the manufacturing facility it was one tag and then let's say they extracted that and got a liter of distillate, it becomes like a family tree of tracking tags. And you create all these new tags. Once you transfer it, there's a transport manifest, right? So for the legal limbo land that the cannabis is in, While it's in transport, that's accounted for by the state. When it comes to us inside the metric, we scan it in and accept it in metric. So the legal possession comes to us, and as we go through it, if there's any snafus, we deal with both the seller and the state.

So the only thing you're really discarding and throwing away or the only refuse you have is boxes.

We'll have more recycling than we, we will have more recycling than we have trash. We will because our employees will have a break room, right? And there's going to be waste. There's, you know, there'll be some waste and, and, and we will have some waste, but we will not have the amount of cannabis waste we have is the occasional return the occasional package that's busted we have a procedure for that we'll have materials to convert it but it's it's we're saving a parking space and saving the hassle of an attractive nuisance and kids cutting off our lock trying to get into our dumpster because they think weed is in there and they don't understand cannabis waste.

I keep using weed. You just indicated that you could get a return of some product. In which case, in which case, will that product be discarded and therefore form part of your waste that gets discarded through a carter?

So what's allowed What's allowed in New Jersey by the Cannabis Regulatory Commission is cannabis waste. Here's what cannabis waste is. There's cannabis, which is a product that is sold by a manufacturer. There's cannabis manufactured products. Then there's cannabis waste. Cannabis waste is, say, somebody brings back cannabis flower THAT HAS MOLD ON IT, OKAY? AND I TAKE THAT RETURN. WHAT I DO WITH THAT IS I MIX IT WITH CERTAIN ACCEPTABLE PRODUCTS. TO BE HONEST, KITTY LITTER IS ONE OF THEM. paper okay paper product so that it's 50.01 percent by volume non-cannabis at which point we are allowed by the CRC to take the cannabis waste which is no longer cannabis and to dispose of it through ordinary waste disposal means which would include a dumpster which would include to a waste hauler now I imagine that they want the dumpsters the CRC wants the videos on the dumpsters because I've done that every in every other state but you're not gonna have don't know if I'm not nope I'm not but anyway that's the process that's what goes out the door something that's allowed No cannabis goes out our door unless it's in a form that is allowed by the CRC. And that's how cannabis waste is handled. And we'll have a small little kitchen ninja to do this. Big manufacturers, they have cannabis cultivators. They have giant machines that convert the stocks. We won't need that.

Any other questions from the board?

Apologies if I missed it. You mentioned the facade changes. You will be going through the Historic Preservation Commission for those, correct? Okay. Just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.

Any other questions from the board of this witness? Any questions from the public of this witness? I see no one.

You have to ask the question. That's how the judges know that the record's complete. Exactly. If you don't open it up to the public, the judge is going to say, well, you didn't finish the hearing. So that's the end of that. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, we spent a lot of time this evening talking about a lot of things. I think that the focus of this conversation should be about the conditional use and the fact that we meet the conditions and we're asking the board to provide that permit to us. We are extremely sensitive to all of the questions that you've had because as I stated at the beginning of this proceeding, it is my client's position that they're going to be a good corporate citizen. They fought hard and long to have the right to become a cannabis dispensary, and they're not going to be doing anything that's going to put that in jeopardy. As to the waste, what Paul has testified to, that is, in fact, the CRC rag basically is that you have to take it, you've got to chop it up, and you've got to mix it with kitty litter, because nobody's going to go in on kitty litter and try to smoke the kitty litter. I don't know if that's true or not, but, you know, Stranger things have happened in this world, right? We don't know what people were smoking years and years ago. And that's the point. That's the point. This is a legal product. It is controlled to the extent that we can control anything. There are labels on our products. New Jersey is so far ahead of everywhere else when it comes to the adult cannabis industry. because of our regulations because we test every single product that goes into the store doesn't mean that everybody's gonna not get an effect from this but we are concerned the state of New Jersey with the regulations has set forth all of these requirements and responsibilities And I like to tell war stories, especially war stories where you have an applicant who winds up losing their license. But it's happened, and it does happen. The regulators come out, they check them out. If they're not in compliance with the CRC regs, they pull the license. Unfortunately, I just lost a client who was about to have a 100,000 square foot grow facility in Plainfield, and they didn't follow the rules. And so their license got taken away. and the amount of money that has been spent by everyone trying to get into this industry. The operators, when they finally get their licenses, they recognize this, and the stories are rampant out there. And you've seen it here in Montclair. You've seen how many fits and starts you have with these cannabis entities. They don't have good partners. They don't have good financing. This is one of the best. This is the third application that I've worked on. that Ms. Givens has been involved in. And each one of them has been a stellar application because she is aware of that corporate responsibility. With that all being said, we'd ask for an affirmative vote and have High Hills get this conditional use permit so that we can get those doors open and get some cannabis sold. And everybody makes money, 2%. And that's the key. We're not going to do anything that's going to not lead to a profit for this particular business, and the municipality is going to also receive the financial incentive by that additional tax that you all, through the League of Municipalities, fought so hard to get. because the state wasn't willing to give it to the municipalities. You all fought for it. And this municipality, amongst others, has shown how significant the decisions are that are being made with regard to this industry. So thank you for your time.

But our tax revenues are not part of our considerations.

No, I know that. It's a fact, but it's not something we can consider as part of this application.

I just want to, since you're being clear, I'm also going to be clear. All right, thoughts from the board? Anybody have questions, comments?

just one thing we didn't touch on the most important a couple of important things that the odor control plan is 100% solid obviously the security of the building we went over this is the third of three class 5 licenses in town the others were passed without any hold up so I'm in favor of you know they have been through all these applicants have been through things that make running through the land use boards look like nothing I mean the state between the state and local regulations it would probably be easier to open a lead-cooled nuclear power plant in town than to do this but so I'm in favor of it I would just say Even though there's some ambiguity, rereading the definitions in our cannabis ordinance, under retail, there is a little bit of ambiguity, but I do not believe that you are allowed to operate your own delivery service in any way. The definition for delivery service ends by saying a cannabis delivery service shall not operate in the township unless and until it receives a Category B license. The definition for retailer does not falsify that, I do not believe. So you can use another one, but this whole debate or question that we had about securing one of the spots or whatever, to do this is moot as far as I'm concerned because you are not able to operate a delivery service somebody else can't do it for you but unless otherwise that would you know so just in terms of good corporate citizenship I would say that you know before any thought was given to that you would really have to clear it with our legal department but otherwise welcome to the party Ms. Denise could you comment on that

what mr. what councillor D'Amato said we're going to delivery about the order delivery but delivery about the delivery honestly I can't because I haven't read the and studied it and figured out parsed it in a way but since I think you councillor D'Amato were part of the council at the time that the ordinance was adopted or changed I think that your statements are probably helpful in interpreting that ordinance. So when I prepare the resolution, actually I'll consult with council and we will arrive at what I think is what you were heading toward. if that answers your question.

Carol, I can't, can you move the mic? I'm sorry. I can't hear you. I'm thinking in terms of our resolution that we'd have to be pretty clear on what it is legally that we're talking about when we say with delivery or not with delivery. So I just would like that to be clarified in whatever we pass the language that we pass.

Perhaps the board would consider language that if delivery is permissible, parking for a delivery vehicle should be limited to no more than one space. Something along that lines. whatever so that if it changes we have something that's documented as part of this application if you did want to include that

I think it makes sense to have a statement that says if it's allowed, because I don't really think it's for this board to decide.

No, it's not.

The interpretation of the cannabis ordinances in town, I feel like there's a township council and legal department question, so I don't think it's something that... That's why I was referring it, because I'm uncomfortable just passing something where we're vulnerable in terms of what results.

I think it's fine if we just don't mention... I don't want it to sound like we're endorsing the idea that they're

engaged in delivery in the future we should just not gonna be silent I would feel more comfortable if we are going to include the language to make sure that the overnight parking of that vehicle would be off-site or something I mean, if we're going to go that route, it keeps coming up.

I intend to include no overnight parking of those vehicles as a condition of this approval.

Okay, that's what we need to know. Good, thank you.

Sure.

Yeah, and I prefer not to go too far down the parking road because we haven't.

Yep.

Had a thorough discussion about it, even though we talked a lot about parking tonight. It hasn't been a real thorough.

Well, I think, if I remember correct, the applicant has agreed to that as a condition, right?

Yes. We've agreed to no overnight parking.

Right.

And I'll make it blank. No overnight parking on the site at all. right? Not just a delivery vehicle. I mean, the site should not have parking all night. Well, the tenant... So we can't do anything about the tenant. So we're going to assume that the tenant has a car and they may be parking on site, but there's going to be nothing associated with cannabis use that's going to be parked on site. And since you've graciously allowed me to join the conversation, I was biting my tongue. I believe that I should be making some inquiry of town council counselor the town attorney with regard to this because there is some confusion on our part as well we were under the impression that when we got through class a license we were able to operate as a retailer and operating as a retailer under the class 5 as Paula testified to would allow for the delivery if you have a separate section which talks specifically about to do delivery from a cannabis entity located in your municipality and that you require a secondary license to allow that? I believe that would be legal, first of all. I think it is legal to do that because of just these things that we're talking about the securing of the vehicles, making sure that anybody who is doing the delivery service has the appropriate license. So I believe that you can do that. I just did not see it when I did my own review of the ordinance. So it may be that I reviewed the ordinance before that section, or I don't know.

I think you can, very clearly, you can use delivery services, but you can't operate it yourself.

And if it requires us to go back before the council with regard to getting that Class B, that's what we will be required to do. I would just ask that if we do have to do that, that we get an administrative approval. from this board at the appropriate time so that we don't have to, not that I don't enjoy sitting here, I really do. We don't get a lot of opportunities as attorneys to actually have philosophical conversation. We have a job to do and I really do appreciate everyone's attention to these matters because they're significant.

Come back here more often. You will find a lot of these philosophical discussions.

I'm going to watch the TV coverage first before I bring another application. Not true at all. We plan to be here.

We get into the details, right? We don't just say, yeah, great, you said yes and everything's good. We look under the hood and make sure everything seems right.

That is your obligation. So I respect it.

And that's why I like the way this board operates. We ask a lot of good questions. Sometimes we get around to not finding an answer that everyone agrees on, but that's OK. That's why we're here. That's why we're a multiple person board.

So we will accept that as a stipulation that if we are going to operate ourselves, we have to consult with the governing body on that issue, basically.

Any other discussion from the board? Just, Arthur, if you could memorialize HBC review of any facade changes as a condition as well.

Yes, I'll include those as in Ms. Talley's report about the facade change, HBC. I don't want to deprive you of business.

Thank you, Arthur. Always looking out for me.

I may approve your bills tonight. It would be a certificate of appropriateness to be required from the HPC, I would assume.

then I'll make that yes the condition that's the cleanest way to do it we like clean last chance no okay

Look, I would move approval of this. I think from the testimony that we've heard, this applicant meets the requirements for conditional use for operating this cannabis business. Subject to the conditions and stipulations we've discussed. Do we need to go through them one more time?

I'll work. I think we understand. I understand what conditions, and I will work with council to make sure that we're all on the same page. All right.

Second. okay uh mayor baskerville yes mr borschoff yes mr campbell yes councillor d'amato yes miss gaines yes vice chair graham yes mr ian wally yes miss willis yes and chair brodock yes thank you so much you're welcome i do i do want to come back for another application i'm going to hand pick one please please do it and make it a challenging one

Yes, always, always.

You'll be back for a few meetings if you have something complicated like that. But thanks for coming in tonight.

Thank you.

All right, do we have any committee reports?

All I know is I don't have any committee reports. We are continuing our Wednesday night meetings to talk about the National Plan Reexamination Report. The next meeting is this Wednesday. And hopefully I will see some planning board members at that meeting.

Could you say something about the format of those meetings? Are you going to give a presentation?

I give a presentation, have probably 30 to 40 slides explaining the master plan, the reexamination process, some of the things that we've been talking about in terms of changes and priorities. And then it's really to listen to what people have to say, you know, regarding our existing master plan or what they see as issues and problems.

You had the third ward first? Right. So what's this Wednesday? What ward is this Wednesday?

Let me double check.

I could look myself, but just...

Where was last week's meeting?

It was here.

Oh, here.

Wednesday, it is the second board meeting on Wednesday at Edgemont House at 630. Okay, and then after that...

I know the fourth ward is the 29th, I think.

The 29th is the fourth ward. I already have three planning board members who've confirmed to attend that meeting. So I think that's full.

Yes. And that's a reminder, if you are going to attend this Wednesday, please let Ms. Talley know so that we can avoid any sort of issues with quorums.

It's at 630. 630. We start at 630. And then the final meeting is August 5th at the Bellevue Branch Library. That's the first ward.

okay so those who attended the third ward meeting were very appreciative to have one-on-one conversation answers to their questions it was it went pretty well even if it we didn't have a lot of people but it was it was good please how many planning board members do you have for this Wednesday because I'm available and I'd like to go if you don't already have I have none I would like to go please okay great thank you mayor

All right.

Okay.

I guess while we're on the topic of kind of just board business, be sure to set up your Montclair email addresses if you haven't already, for those who haven't.

My invite expired. I was away. So I did request a new one from IT. Okay.

Yeah. Our IT department will help you with that. Okay.

And they've been very responsive because I had issues getting in, you know, day one and two, and then they were really responsive in helping me through that. So just as a reminder, everybody to do that because it will be beneficial even though it's work to set it up.

Yeah. Well, I think by coming in August, I'm going to start using everybody's township email, um, So otherwise, I'm guessing.

Right. So be aware. That's where your packets, you know, for those of you who get electronic versions of things, that's where they will go to starting in August. So make sure they're set up.

All right.

Do we have bills?

We have bills. Is there a motion to pay the bills?

Despite being accosted by a representative of the council's firm in the parking lot. I would make a motion to approve the bills.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

And I will move adjournment.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Have a good night, everyone.