Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Commission meeting will come to order at 6:30. Secretary, please call roll. Dennis Sabolski here. Tim Boyd here. Stuart Pop here. Sandy Growth here. Dan Callahan here. Bill Aakes here. Ashley Krueger here. Thank you. All here. And uh do we have a motion to approve the agenda submitted tonight? Uh Mr. Chair, I move we approve the agenda as submitted. Second. Move by Commissioner Bdon, supported by Commissioner P to uh approve tonight's agenda. All in favor signify by saying I.

I opposed. Motion carries. And there's a is there a motion to approve the minutes of March 18th? Uh Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the minutes, the planning commission minutes of March 18th. Is there support? Okay. Commissioner Callahan. Moved by Commissioner Pop and supported by Commissioner Callahan. I have some comments. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. See

um on page three, just a minor typo. Second paragraph fourth. Yeah, it's on. Yeah, it's the plans get in the way of the mic. That's the problem. Let's try that again. Okay. on page three, second paragraph, fourth sentence down, uh the third word in indicted I think is supposed to be indicated. Oh, thank you.

And then uh on page uh seven uh item C, the master plan update. At the bottom of that, it says moved by Commissioner Boyd, supported, etc. Um, we need to insert there all eyes. Motion passed. Uh, okay. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. That's it. Okay. So then, uh,

I I'm sorry. I I have a comment, too. Um, Jacqueline is her first name. I don't remember her last name, but she is with Bradberry and she requested clarification in the minutes because she referred to the 30-foot Gen or Bill. I think you know more about this than I do. Um but you could speak to it. She was concerned about the fact that her request for a 30-foot um yeah board that it's not in the minutes and she's concerned that by it not being in the minutes yes somebody can watch a video but because it's not in the minutes it's not spelled out in a way that's indicative for someone to just look at the minutes and see that that was a written and agree to request.

I don't believe that was part of the motion. Uh, no. Well, I I'm I'm referring to um I know I sent it out to everybody. Yeah, that just the fact that it was comments that she asked she wants to see it in writing somewhere. Well, I've been told that the the video the recorded part of the meeting is part of the official record. So, that is in the in the record. It's just not reflected here.

Well, I this is this is an issue that we have on the board as well or we have had in the past. When you're dealing with someone who is um specifying specific concerns, it it it's important that they have the teeth in writing to um to validate concerns that are expressed. And not everyone is not everybody's going to listen to the minutes or the meeting, but it's easy to take a look at minutes and get a good review and it's just it's not there and I'm concerned about that because I'm concerned about protecting the implications behind these things. Can you give me the reference again where it is and then it

it's not we we captured what Gary Landro from LA Development said and wanted. So is it on six? I want to see where in the minute. Bottom of page five. Bottom of page five. This the 50 to 60 ft. Yeah. The 50 got captured right which is what he offered. I asked for 100 right there. Previous meeting. Look at the top of P. Sorry. Yeah. Go on. Look at the top of page. He explained that they are extending that buffer 260 ft from the original plan of 50 ft. What page? I didn't hear what top of page six. Okay. Second line. Okay. Oh, yep.

Is that it, Sandy? No, she's referring to the No. Can you explain it better, Bill? Cuz I think you've talked to her. I I I did talk to her. I wish she would have stayed cuz she just literally ducked out of here. You've talked to them and I've talked to planning and I've also talked to the supervisor and um it was not a condition of the motion. It was something that he said he wouldn't touch the first 30 ft. Um but it wasn't a part of the motion and it wasn't Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't a condition

and and if we start putting in extra things that leads to more liability on the part of the law. So that is why that is why the minutes are not supposed to be including everything. And I I have spoken with many people about this and I understand that. However, I do believe that that is a planning dis planning commission discretion and that's why I'm bringing it up. Well, perhaps we should defer on the on the minutes and see council from from the attorney. I I like that idea. Okay, that's okay. So, you you withdraw your motion and I withdraw the motion and you withdraw your

or you did you did and withdraw the motion agreement. So that is important. Okay. Uh until the next meeting. So and we can look into that. Okay. And Laura, will you will you uh contact the attorney or should I contact you? Okay. I don't know how much he is doing for the township. Okay. I don't either. So that's why you probably he'll respond to your call. Okay. Okay. Chairman Sabolski. Yeah. Uh staff can do that. Okay. Uh cuz we are in transition of attorneys right now and I know who to reach out to. Oh, okay. Uh and maybe we can get something in writing. Absolutely.

So we can all see it and hear it right from the hor's mouth, so to speak. Okay. Next, uh public comment. This is an opportunity for anyone here that wishes to speak on any non-aggenda item. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak on a non-aggenda item? Okay, we'll move on. Have a public hearing for application 2588, the adult foster care home special land use and the plan will read the report.

Thank you, Chairman Sabolski, commissioners. Good evening. Liz Hart with McKenna. This is a application for a special land use uh a proposed adult foster care home located on Ann Arbor Road just east of I 275. Uh the proposed use is going to have 12 bedrooms and onsite staff. Uh right now the site does have an existing building and they're reusing that building. I believe the current building was previously used as an office use. So this would be a change in use. There are no um proposed changes to the actual site. Some minor exterior changes to the building but no no modifications to the site. So it will stay as existing and this so the subject site's 58,900 square ft and the building's 5,114 square ft. Um there will be regular staff changes, visitor trips and service activities. The subject site is zoned OS ARC office service Ann Arbor Road Corridor District where this um use isn't listed specifically but it does um allow similar uses of office and service to be approved as a special land use through the planning commission which is why this is the route we are going with this use. Would this be a residential livein facility?

Yes. Okay.

Yes. So that that is actually quite different from an office use building. Going through the special land use criteria. Criteria one, the intensity and scale of the use in comparison to surrounding uses and conditions. So the subject site is zone again OS ARC and the future land use classification rema keeps it as Ann Arbor Road Corridor office. To the north is an existing car wash and restaurant and that's also zoned Ann Arbor Road Corridor. To the south is single family zone the R1 one family residential and the future land use map does show this as residential medium density. To the west is the gas station and coffee shop. Again, zoned Arc Ann Arbor Road Corridor. In the future land use map also shows it as an Ann Arbor Road Corridor commercial. And then to the east, that's outside of the township, but there is existing residential to the east. Um so the proposed residential use uh will maintain int a less intensive use than what's permitted by right. Uh the surrounding properties to the south are residential in nature and the pro proposed use uh we believe will function similarly to the residential living environment rather than a high turnover commercial use. All required setbacks are maintained on this property and again there are no major exterior building expansions or site redevelopment. Um, in terms of consistency with the you of the use with the master plan, really it supports the goal of uh responsible reuse of existing buildings and diversification of housing and supportive residential options for adults who benefit from career supervision and safe living arrangements. And again, the subject site is

designated as Ann Arbor Road Corridor Office on the future land use map. and that does not propose a conflict with this designation. Instead, it does provide a less intense use impact of the use to natural features. Again, the site does have an existing building and feature several existing mature trees. Um, but there will be no disturbance to any of the existing natural features on normal property maintenance. Uh criteria two the use is designed located proposed to be operated so the public health safety and welfare will be protected. We don't anticipate the proposed use uh we anticipate the proposed use can be successfully operated in support of the public health and safety and welfare. It will be added criteria three requires it to be adequately served by public services and facilities. As this is an existing building and they have existing connections to the services, we don't anticipate it to um exceed what what's already existing which should operate within typical service levels. Uh criteria four regarding vehicular circulation uh is proposed to be the best interest of the public health safety and welfare in relationship to egress and ingress of the site. So, right now the site has one uh drive way that allows in ingress and egress to the site. Um that's off of Ann Arbor Road. Um and we do believe as how the use has been explained to us, the residents there shouldn't be there's no mobility from them in terms of leaving the site. So, they won't have cars there. There'll be limited visitors and the only real on and off going of the site will be the um the on-site workers. There's 24-hour shifts, so they'll be shifting between them. But

otherwise, we don't expect like traffic circulation on the site to be as intensive as um as a different use, like a commercial use. Um the parking lot does have um room for 23 vehicles and that does meet that does exceed the parking requirement for um the uh adult foster care home requirements and we did find that the parking lot is adequately landscaped from the public right away. Criteria five, uh, the location, use, and assembly of persons in connection with the proposed use will not be hazardous to the planning unit in which the use is located or hazardous to a specific use or life of property within the planning unit. Um so the applicant has stated that there will not be any outdoor assembly or highintensity commercial activity or hazardous materials that would increase potential risk to the neighboring properties. Um so we do expect it to remain consistent with the existing character of the area as it exists today. Um, I will say and I go into the report goes into this in criteria six, but they are required to have an outdoor space kind of similar to our child care requirements. Um, it's not as extensive as the 500 ft² per child, but they were required. Um, I believe it was like a 5,000t minimum. And they are provide like the back area where that lawn area to the rear, that's where it's being proposed. and that's about 6,000 square ft. So they do meet that. So criteria six, uh the proposed site layout is in compliance with the general site development standards of article 29. Um the use and associated activities on the

property are so located as to not hinder the projected development of adjacent properties or impair the existing use of adjacent lands. Again, this site is already existing. The use is just changing. Um how the site lays out right now is there is existing fencing um up against both well to the south where the existing residential is to the south there is a fence there right now to the east where that's not the township and there is existing residential there there's actually quite a big buffer of existing trees. Um I'm not sure if there is a fence along there. Um, but it does look thick enough as a as a natural barrier between those two uses. And along Ann Arbor Road, there is um like a I think it's like a 4ft iron height fencing along there. Um, and we asked the applicant to expand that specifically along the outdoor space area just so there is an actual vis visual barrier in case residents of this building do go outside. they know that that's where it stops and they're not just going onto the sidewalk. Vice versa with the public walking, they know there's a barrier and that's not something that they can just walk on. Um and then uh so it does so we did find that it does meet the parking, the lighting, um any signage will require a new permit. Um sufficient landscaping. Uh and then we just talked about fencing and the means of buffering. Um but so we do find that it is uh capable of complying with the development requirements of the adult care facility. Um again we just recommend that maybe not fencing. As I talked with the applicant, it appears that that fencing that's existing might be the township's fencing. And so there's some existing

shrubbage on their property that we talked about maybe just um expanding that shrubbery along the fence just creating that again that visual barrier so that they know this is separated from the public. Um so in conclusion um we are recommending the planning commission grant special land use approval for the adult foster care home at 39475 Ann Arbor Road uh based on the five findings of facts listed in the staff report with uh three conditions. one, the approval of the sign plan being addressed uh with that addresses all planning requirements, so a separate permit. Um the revision of the tax identification number on the site plan. Uh it appears to be wrong. We want to make sure that's correct on the final stamp plans. And then uh number three, provision of fencing or shrubbery would be the new condition for the outdoor recreation area. Um that's my report. I'm happy to take questions. There was no engineering review for this or fire review and the applicant is here.

Thank you. Thank you. Is the applicant here? Yes. Okay. Come up.

Oh, Comm Chairman Sabolski, I do just want to note there was one public comment received via email that is in your packet. Is in our packet. Thank you. Good evening. Hi, good evening. So, do you want to talk a little bit about what your plan is and operation?

Yes. So, our plan is to um convert the office usage to a 12 bed assisted living. So, like she said, it will be 24/7 staff. Um, as far as the traffic, it'll be way less traffic. Um actually we have another who's running basically the dayto-day. She's here as well. She's a nurse practitioner which is uh also the owner. Um we um have not we are not having transportation um on on a site. So family will come and visit the lovant probably once a week maybe once a month depend unfortunately. Um as far as uh services for them uh they will have visiting physician um they will have nurses um and food as well on a side you know do you know how about how many staff will be on a shift? Simona, do you want to come here and answer?

Sure. Hi. You need to speak in the morning. Um for 12 residents, we're anticipating four during the day morning care to assist with the daily cares which is mainly in the morning and typically three or two in the evenings um on a day-to-day basis and then two two during the night to be able to assist uh you know if there's a needed assistance throughout the night. There is 24-hour supervision.

It's it's difficult and I'm sitting here. It's difficult for me to hear you so you need better into the night. Um, a good staffing pattern would be 3 or 4 in the morning to assist with the morning care. We are currently uh running a six bed a licensed residential home and being going on that um staffing pattern. We're anticipating three or four staff in the morning um three or two in the afternoon and then two at night to assist with any night needs for any resident that you know wakes up in the middle of the night. And the letter, I'm not sure if you saw a copy of the letter from the adjoining resident. What is the condition of uh of the adults there? I mean, he was concerned about are they violent in any way or subject to wandering off or that kind of

the residents that we're um currently taking care of and we're anticipating it would be um elderly or adult um residents that need supervision beyond independent living. So, just assisted living. They need 24-hour supervision, assistance with your meals, um just ADLs, getting bathed in the morning, um that can no longer live in their home or shouldn't live in their home isolated, can be in a safe environment and have interactions with other residents. No violent behaviors. Um uh we do not admit community mental health. We're not licensed with community mental health. So, it'll be an assisted living for residents that can no longer live in an independent kind of um environment.

So, are they is it a secured building? Can they leave the building or Yes. Excuse me. My name is Joe Hammond and I'm the contractor. These exits are all protected in one way or another. Um, usually it's a delayed egress and it's approved by the state. So, if somebody does come and push the door, um it takes 15 seconds at a minimum, usually 30, before the door will unlatch. If it's pushed too hard and it does unlatch, there's an alarm that goes off. So, all the doors will be protected. So, we can we can uh presume or assume that uh you're following all the state regulations for this type of operation. It is licensed. Yes.

Okay. Also, I want to mention they will be 65 and over age to who to who live in that facility. Okay. No younger than that. And can can you talk a little bit about the outdoor recreation area? Um you know is it what would be contained in there? How would it be fenced or screened?

Um like like Liz said on on an arbor corridor which the township already have the um the fence so we can continue with the with the boxes. It's it's a barrier basically. they cannot go on it. And then um on the south side we have 6 ft uh concrete uh fans. Um on Tavistock Road, which is it's pretty far from the building, so it's already sidewalk and we I don't know if we can do any barrier there. But as far as um sitting area outside on the souththeast side of the building, we already have a designated area where they can stay in the shade and um enjoy a beautiful day.

So there is some shading in that area. Oh yes, we have mature trees in the back u back the east side where Leavonia uh city starts uh it's pretty thick there and then on a south uh side of the property which is Tavistock Road there we have very mature trees there because I know in the past some of the uh some of the residents potentially could be on medication that leads them to be sunsensitive so we would want to protect them from that. Oh yes, definitely. We have plenty of shade. Okay. Questions from the commission. No. Is it Go ahead.

Is it more of a senior center then? Kind of. It's the state called it adult foster care home. It's 65 and over. U basically like Simona said that uh seniors they cannot stay home alone. They need they need someone to manage the medication. They need help with the baiting. They need help with they can't really walk and go on the street and wander. Yeah. So they'll be, you know, sitting in a wheelchairs or chairs or

So is Okay. Um so it's like a small senior center then. Correct. Effectively. And it's private pay. So you're going to market I mean correct every resident pays their own. It's all private pay. Okay. Okay. Are these seniors with physical disabilities?

Are they more or are they mental? They majority is physical disability. Um typically assisted living if anyone reaches a point beyond their independent living where they have their own apartment and physically they're not a able to walk, they're not able to bathe themselves. Um safety of medication management comes into play. So that's where the assisted living part comes in is we're able to do the 24-hour supervision. Uh we do the medication management. We train the staff in medication management to know how to pass medication and they they're trained in that. Uh and I myself also do the training as a nurse practitioner. Um and then so we work with the families. They're the ultimate decision makers, but we assist the families in taking care of their loved ones. So we become their liaison. And then they also have the physicians that come visit within the home so that they're able to, you know, get the care that they need without having to leave the home or be alone in an environment where they're not safe, they're not falling. They we assist them to the bathroom, all those daily cares that they need. Um, if they have a little bit of dementia, then we're able to have some reminders as far as, you know, even brushing their teeth and, you know, assisting them with different types of milk consistencies based on what the doctor orders. So we're able to provide that for them.

We also we she already has six beds. So this will be 12 beds for her. But she's already owning one and doing one. And also we have a 20 bed and Plymouth Road which we just finished build with where is where are the existing six beds? On Aloise Street which is at the corner of Plymouth Road and Newberg right behind Hines Drive and the other Aottaban. Aloise. Okay. And then the other one's just about a mile down the street on Eckles and Plymouth Road.

I have a few questions. Um, because this is a single access point, I understand that this intensity is supposed to be less than a commercial office building, but I want to understand your operations a little bit more. Um, for example, are you going to be preparing food on site or will there be deliveries? Um, you're going to have uh janitorial service providers coming in and out, linen service providers coming in and out. Can you just explain what type of traffic will be attributed to the site beyond staff and visitors?

So, we do prepare our own meals. Um, and we are also cross-trained with our staff to be able to assess nutritional intake of the residents. So, the meals we will we'll do ourselves. Also the linen we do laundry um daily um so there is no external laundry service and also the housekeeping as well um is we do ourselves with the staff um so there is no external traffic coming into the home um that's all within the home itself.

Okay. And then do you have like regular supply deliveries or anything like that? Can you explain just kind of just want to understand the flow of traffic in and out of the site a little bit more? Um, typically so I would I would manage it and I as far as deliveries uh food, shopping, groceries to be able to maintain the food. Um, and then as far as anything else, the initial plan is to furnish the building. And beyond that would be regular deliveries of briefs, wipes, things that you would need to maintain and be able to care for the elderly. But aside from that, we don't anticipate any regular delivery, major deliveries as if it would be in a home. um that you would live at home, let's say you would have, you know, a larger family and you would just need regular supplies to maintain the care.

Okay, great. I do think this is a great service you're providing. I think there's a need for this type of service. So, I commend you for doing that. Um, not everyone can do that type of work. So, thank you. Um, one other question is I know that there's some we had one at least one public comment on the use and because this residential um housing, I just would like you to explain kind of what you anticipate um the impact on the residential neighborhood if any with this new with this use if approved. from there.

So, um we completely screen like like he said from their residential. We have probably 20 plus people driving in into the parking lot and and leaving every day. Um I believe there will be less traffic than what we have now. And as far as like delivery, we have delivery to the building um UPS or FedEx or Amazon, but that's not daily. Same thing. Um so as far as food and everything that they cook, it's 12 residents. So pretty much having a large family, um it's not a lot of food. It's not a lot of traffic. The reason we choose to do it this way, it would be it's more per u feels if you feel like you're home. you're not like in a facility. So, it's a small setting. Um the living room or your room uh is different than a 40 bed assistant living. And as far as impacting the neighborhood, I I don't think it's it's going to create traffic or impact and they're not going to go out and wander and all that.

Okay. You um are you planning to make any changes to the the building itself on the exterior like lighting or anything that could impact the the neighborhood? We have lights pretty much every corner of that parking lot. So, it's very very bright. Um, I think that might be one of the concerns of the if it's too bright at night like that's we don't have it on actually now. Like I have probably two lights on. If we turn them all on back in the day used to be a bank, so that was like very bright. So, we have two lights on. It's not bright.

Are you intending to have more lighting on the site? Unless it's required in what we have. But um if we turned all all the lights on, it would be like a soccer or football field. Okay. Um and then you mentioned an alarm on the doors if they open. Is that something that could be heard in the in the neighboring? No, it's everything is internal. Internal. It's internal. Okay. It's not It's not overly loud. It's just to alarm this guy.

You have to speak into the microphone. It's not loud like a fire alarm when we do the fire drills. It's just to alarm the staff to know there might be a potential resident or someone trying to exit just to attract their attention. We also have alarms in a small home as well, so it's non-disturbing at all. Okay. Thank you. Other questions. Um perhaps I didn't hear it earlier. is having a hard time hearing, but can you tell us what your past experience is in running this type of enterprise?

Oh, yes, of course. Um, it our current home is about 4 years old and um the one thing that's allowed me to say, "Let me go ahead and expand," is the families tell us on a daily basis that they're finally able to breathe. you know, they come, the residents move into our home, they've either lived by themselves in an apartment or in a home, they're in a lumber to care for themselves. We come into our home, they're able to find friends, they're able to communicate with someone in a, you know, smaller setting without feeling lost in a bigger place. And then now they're getting car cared for. We do all the morning care, all the daily everyday care, incontinence care, feeding their meals. You know, if they tell me their favorite food is something, I can go put it on the grocery list and buy it for them. make sure they have their favorite drinks in the in the pantry. Um, and so our experience has been that the families they they say, "I wish I would have known this concept before. I wish there was other options where I can live with my loved one." And then they can come and visit with them. They have their own private rooms, but then they also have the living room where they can come out and visit with their friends, you know, and then but they still have that private space available to them as well. And then we're just literally down the hall if someone, you know, needs some help, we're there. And so in that regards has been an amazing impact. And most families I have not heard one family say that you know I can finally go on vacation and know that mom and dad are taken care of and I'm not worried about them falling somewhere and no one's hearing them or the call I go on off for, you know, 40 minutes and no one's going down because we're a little bit smaller. We're able to to get there quicker. So that's just been our experience. And running a little bit smaller, we're able to be a little more personal, feel a little more homey and not feel so distant, you know. And that's kind of that's what I'm being told on a regular basis and what's kind of keeps me going about this.

Yeah. So you will actually have separate 12 separate units, one room I would assume with seating and television and sleeping. And then you will have an area for feeding for people to eat like a meal area and a kitchen wherever you're going to prepare. And then you will have a day room where they can watch TV or play bingo or whatever they do. And then maybe like an activities room. Yes. Puzzles. Clearly I know something about this. Um and that type of activity that

we have activity coordinators that come uh twice or three times a week or they can daily. It all depends uh to help engage especially with uh residents especially if they've lived alone. They engage in these activities. They engage with other residents at their at their wish. you know, it's it's available to them. But yes,

anybody else? Yeah. My question is, is there demand for this right now? Do you have a wait list of people and families that want to come in that will fill this up?

There is a demand. Yes. Um we're the projection especially with the elderly at this point is about 15 to 20 years because of that the elder you know we're we're all aging at different levels but there is an influx of in the next 15 to 20 years and I I hope to be able to myself be have this available to me when I get there. Um but at the moment, yes. Um there's a lot of bigger facilities which is great for when you're active independent and you're at that level where you can be independent. But as we decline and we need that extra help, um we find that smaller environments 6 12 even 21 is like your perfect area where you can staff appropriately and not have the staffing challenges that a lot of uh bigger facilities are having. Um because also our overhead is not as big as theirs too. So we can we can do that personalized care. So yeah, the market is there.

Yeah. Second question, the staffing. If you have two people in the afternoon and two people at night when people go on vacations as they do, do do you have backfill uh help that can come in so it's not a oneman band?

Um so there's you hire your own staff, but there's also staffing agencies for emergencies where you can um you know post your shifts, call us shifts. We also have two other homes in our in our direct family that are actively functioning. One for about 12 years and about seven. And so within my family alone have the resources that have been active sixperson beds running um for longer times that we can tap into those resources as well cuz this is definitely a concern that I had to be able to know that I can provide the care and have the backup to make sure that the residents are taken care of. And I personally am involved in that as well. not just managing but doing personal um hands-on care.

Okay. Third and last question I have is on the building mechanically. Um we're taking out a lot of loadbearing walls but you're also adding some uh the CA the CAD. You're not worried about the roof and snowwood and whatnot on the the foundation and No, that's a completely engineered drawing. Okay. Yeah. All right. Just want to double check. I want to go back to your question earlier about uh occupancy. We did the facility on Plymouth. have to go to the mic so we can

I thought it was loud enough. We did the facility on Plymouth Road just east of Eckles. That's a 20 bed uh facility that Mr. Brazdow owns and um from May of last year when we occupied it, it's 100% right now occupancy in that facility. So there is a need. Okay. I don't have any other questions on side. So I have a question. So this operation is similar to the one that's on Plymouth Road in Eckles. Correct. Correct. Okay. Yeah. I remember 20 bed uh AFC. That's a 20 bed. That's considered a large adult foster care because of the quantity of that.

Yeah. I remember I believe it was you came and we and you had some I believe some of the families of the residents at another facility that uh were very pleased with the service that was being provided. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? All right. Discussion. Yeah, we're going to but before I open that up. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, the purpose tonight is to um schedule potentially to schedule a public hearing, right? We're going to do the public hearing now. Oh, if you're all set with Okay.

at this point. Okay. So, we'll open the public hearing at uh 7:08. We have to have a motion for that. So, who Mr. Chair, I move we open the public hearing at 7:08 p.m. Okay. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to open the public hearing at 7:08. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Motion carries. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak to this application? Okay. Then hearing none. Is there a motion to close the public hearing at 7? We do have one. Oh yes. Come on up.

Um yes I did. Sorry. Yes. and the sorry.

Um, do I need to? So, my name's Elizabeth G. I live right next door to the facility. You need to be close to the microphone because we're not hearing you.

Thank you. I live right next door to the facility. So, my primary concern is the outdoor activity spaces because I do think it's a great proposal for that space, but um I don't know how mobile these patients are going to be, but they will want to be outside and it is a very big open area that has one area of trees for shade. And then the township fencing is only three and a half feet tall and it does not cover the entire back area. It's in sections and has little decorative things between it. So it is not sufficient for keeping them off the sidewalks. So that has to be looked at a little bit closer and made safe for them. I don't have a problem with them being escorted outside of the area, but they would need to have proper care when they are outside of that area. But if they are within that area right now, they would not be safe. And including in that, the space between Plymouth and Leavonia is wild trees, bushes, thorns, garbage. they need to be rem they need not to be able to get into that space. So that has to be looked at also. That's my concerns.

Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. We'll close the public hearing at 7:11. Is there a motion to close it? Mr. Chair, I move we close the public hearing at 7:11 p.m. Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Grath to close the public hearing at 7-Eleven. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. You care to respond to that last concern? Sure.

Um, as far as the sitting at outside, they will not be alone. They will be supervised. And um, majority they won't be able to walk. They're sitting on a wheelchairs or on the chairs. So, we helped them on a wheelchair, transfer them outside and a sitting area. Um, as far as the thick area, um, where is part of the Leavonia, I can't even walk in there. It's true. It's it's it's wild there. You can't even fit in there. Um, the Ann Arbor Road Corridor where the se uh fence section are, it's part of the city. If we continue to do anything else, we're going to change the design. It's not going to look the same. Um, but the the bushes, they're already there, the boxes, we can continue with those, and we can create a 4 ft barrier easier.

Yeah. Okay. I wanted to ask that question slightly different. It sounds like there's gaps in the fencing that's 3 and 1/2 ft tall. Is there a plan to fill those gaps in so it's one continuous perimeter or is a plan to leave the gaps that are there presently in place? The gaps between the fences we city already has bushes so we can continue uh there is a good probably 30 ft that's not nothing there we can continue with that and close that gap. Let me ask a question. So Liz, is that's part of the Ann Arbor Road corridor that the DDA is maintaining?

Yes. Yes. So can can an applicant plant more bushes or does that have to be handled by the DDA? He can plant more bushes on his property. If we wanted that fencing extended, I believe we'd have to work with the DDA and he would have to put in place what's what's already there to match it and everything. That's why we suggested shrubbery. Um, but you guys can recommend the fencing to be extended along there. I just I don't know why it's not why there are there are sections that just aren't filled in. I don't know why.

If we have bushes and shrubs that act as a a barrier, right, in in some of the locations and the gaps, right, it would seem to be consistent with what the plan is to to fill in the the 30 ft or so. If that's a condition the developer is willing to do, then great. Well, it's it's it's not intended to be in along that corridor because it's part of that plan of that corridor. It's not intended to be uh bear, you know, providing a barrier for anything. And I I drove by it, but I didn't look at it that carefully, but what they do in some of those spaces, there's daylies that come up. So, that might be a dilly bed in there. Um we'd have I'd have to look at it. you know, if the concern is a resident uh you know, burying the resident so they don't go out into traffic or whatever, I I think the chances are pretty slim because they are in wheelchairs and they're being monitored. But

I mean, that's up to the commission. Uh and I think there'd have to be some coordination most likely with the DDA. Wouldn't you think so? Uh Liz, do you think there'd have to be some kind of coordination with the DDA if they were going to plan something? Yes. So, we can recommend that. Not if if it's on his property, I don't believe, but I do recommend it matching whatever existing. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. You do recommend what, Liz? That it matches what if there we're doing, it needs to match what's existing. The planting plan. Okay. Sandy,

I just want to be clear because I have personally experienced this. You don't have in order for someone to go into an assisted living facility, they do not have to be wheelchair bound. You're not going to have rules that say you must be wheelchair bound in order to live here. Is that correct? So, we can have mobile people living in this facility. it. I I don't want to confuse the issue with, oh, it's not a problem because most of them will be in wheelchairs because you're still going to have people who are able to walk and get around and use walkers and that type of thing. So, I just want to make it clear that this is not so restrictive that it's just going to be wheelchair bound people.

Okay. Well, better safe than sorry.

All right. Any other concerns? Well, what's your pleasure on granting the uh special land use? Do the recommendations. We can adopt the recommendations uh as a provision for the special land use and also add uh language uh for exploration with the DDA to um plan anything that would be on um not on their property. They can do what they want on their property, but not anything that would impact on the DDA plantings.

I'm not in favor of granting the special land use. So, I'm not going to make a motion. that's left to the rest of you to do. Do you want to share those reasons for us now? Maybe to enlighten people that I am we we looked at the potential for allowing a daycare child care center not on our property but in the city of Plymouth in the Ann Arbor Road corridor. I believe the corridor exists for a reason and a specific purpose and I don't um agree with mixing any type of residential within that district.

Okay. further discussion or thoughts. Um, Liz, what other types of businesses could go into this site with the existing zoning, particularly businesses that would be much more intense impact on the the nearby community? Um, well, it is office service, so it would be more towards office. pull it up.

So, it could be another bank. Is that correct?

So, yeah. Um I believe so. medical, dental offices, administrative offices, real estate, schools for arts and crafts, moratories, um caretakers, residents, um public schools, accessory structures, special land uses of bank and financial institution, commercial, medical, dental, laboratories, veterary office, municipal facilities, um nursing and convolescent homes. commercial child care center and then charter and private schools, a hospital that do not meet the definition of large scale institutional uses. And it also has a minimum 10 acres. So that might be hard to do on Ann Arbor Road. Massage therapy public utilities. It it strikes me that this particular application would be a very low impact piece of business on this site and other opportunities could come in that would be much more intense to the neighborhood. So that makes me um inclined to want to give this favorable view.

Sandy, you're thinking it should be more like commercial. Is that what you're thinking? I'm just not in favor of mixing residential. I'm just not We have an Ann Arbor Road corridor for a reason. I personally am not in favor of making any portion of the Ann Arbor Road Corridor consistent with residential. That's just my personal opinion about that. It's nothing against you and what you're doing and what you're doing is awesome. I just don't believe it belongs in the Ann Arbor Road Corridor District. But I am only just one person. So

Liz, how long has this building been waiting for a reuse? Months? Years? Um, I'm not sure. Do you know all It's about probably a couple months since we talking. Yes. So, it's been a short period of time. Not long. Okay. Yeah, we do. And also, we have some residential on Ann Arbor Road, you know, the town houses. Yes. Right. Hey, I'd like to make a motion. Okay. Um I recommend the planning commission grant special land use approval for the adult foster care small group. We don't recommend it. We are deciding.

Okay. Okay. Um recommend we approve the special land use for adult foster care small group home at 39475 Ann Arbor Road based upon compliance with the above stated land use criteria. um including but not limited to the five items that are listed below the planner's recommendation along with a request that planning explore the possibility of additional landscaping along the front of the property either on the road corridor property or on the uh owner's property to create more of a natural barrier between the building and the on.

Is there support? Support. Moved by Commissioner um Boyd and supported by Commissioner Krueger to uh grant special land use to application 2588 subject to set conditions. All in favor signal. Well, let's do a roll call vote. Could you take a roll call? I I will. Okay. Dennis, yes. Tim, yes. Stewart, yes. Sandy, no. Dan, yes. Bill, yes. And Ashley, yes. Okay, so it's uh Good luck. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Thank you for your time. Next is application 2587, the Ryan Center here for a candidate site plan approval. And Miss Hart, your report.

Thank you, Chairman Sabolski. Liz Hart with McKenna. This is a tenative site plan review for the Rayon Center. Um they are looking for approval of a parking lot extension and new access drive. Um the existing site um holds a religious institution, a 16,180 square foot institution on a mostly developed 12 acre parcel along 5mile road. This project right now is their first phase of their project. the the expansion of the um of the parking lot. And the reason why they're doing it in phases is this first phase. And if you've been out there and noticed a lot of trees are gone, they um they came to us first. They got a tree survey permit. Um and the reason they needed to do this is there's a drain right there and they need to get eagle permits to be able to do the parking lot and the access road. So that's why they went through the tree removal first and then they're coming through site plan. So we did review the tree survey two different times essentially. Um so the property is zone industrial district where the existing religious institution um was approved in 2014 as a special land use. Um so in terms of site design again the the site is already designed the existing building you can see on the screen uh and the parking that's all existing and then the new parking lot will be just to the east of the building right here. Um, and mostly it's uh for the just more people are coming. They need more

parking. That's why they decided to do this and this was the next spot on their land. Um, site appearance and coordination. Again, the site's located on five mile. There is adequate setback proposed to minimize the visual and physical disruption of the parking lot to the surrounding area. Um, it's an additional 34,525 square ft of the site to be covered in impervious service. So, that does bring the site up to about 22 1.5% from the previous 15%. Now, the industrial district does not have a standard for imperous surface. However, we continue to recommend that uh 50% be stay closer or under to 50% which is the maximum lot coverage allowed in the T and um O districts and this is achieved on this site. Preservation of site features. There is one regulated wet line on site. Um it's on your plans as a wetland A. It's about 0.15 acres. Um and then wetland delineations have been flagged, but it's not expected that the wetland will be impacted from the parking lot. There's no infrastructure located near it. And then a tree survey and inventory was provided on sheet C1.2, which does provide the type, size, and conditions of all trees provided. And then the landscape plan on sheet L uh one indicates the removal of 42 nonheritage trees and four heritage trees. Uh from staff's calculations that came out to 180 in DBH to uh be replaced.

Um and the landscape plan dated March 4th, 2026. It's actually showing about 6 in less than that. Um, so we're requesting that the applicant uh recheck their calculations and just let's just make sure that that's all correct and we're getting the right amount of DBH in return of what's being removed. Otherwise, they do uh meet what is required for tree replacement impact on public services. Um the township engineer um is recommending approval of tenative site plan with some items to be addressed before the site plan approval. You have a review letter enclosed in your packet dated January 22nd, 2026 as well as one from the fire marshall dated back in January 2026. And our township engineer is here and um they will take you through that letter, but we do not expect any uh any impact on public services uh vehicular access and circulation. Um, so right now there's access from Pilot Drive and so they're adding another access along Five Mile. Um, and this parking lot will connect into the existing one. So there is good internal circulation for access between both parking lots and the the site where the building is. Um, and again the township engineer has approved the tenative site plan with items to be addressed. uh pedestrian access and circulation. Um the current existing conditions do comply with pedestrian infrastructure around the building. The parking lot expansion um we do believe it should be enhanced for safety of the public. So we're requiring the um applicant to put in pedestrian crossing hashing in the

parking aisles that lead to entrances or the walkways. Um, and we actually found a pretty good example uh in the township. Plymouth Township Baptist Church has some pretty nice um pedestrian hatchings and we recommend that they take a look at that and and possibly follow their example. Um barrierfree spaces uh are required to meet um are needed to be located near entries and walkways uh where a curb exists between the parking lot surface and a sidewalk surface with an incline approach or curb cut. So, right now they're proposing five new uh barrierfree spaces um on the existing parking lot site on the north side facing a fivemile road. Um and these don't actually currently meet the minimum design standards. They don't have access to walkways that lead to the building entries. So, they will have to revise that. Um, and if you look at the previous site plan versus what's now, uh, you can see they are doing some additional work like fixing the drive aisle and removing some parking spaces over in this area. So, there's just some new configuration that needs to happen uh, with the final site plan, emergency access and vulnerability to hazards. Again, you have the um review letter from the township fire marshall and we don't expect any um issues with emergency access and there are no hazards being proposed to be used on the site. Uh landscaping, screening and buffering. Uh so there is a 10-ft buffer required along five mile road. Um, and this increases when the depth of the parking or vehicular use area is a

certain amount and for this it's 180 ft. So that requires that buffer to be bumped up to 20 ft which they are providing. Um, and then they're required to have a combination of deciduous trees, flowering trees and shrubs to adequately screen. The landscape plan shows 27 shrubs are proposed within the buffer and then additional deciduous and ornamental trees are also located in this area. However, um some of these trees are credited towards the tree replacement, some are credited towards the parking lot landscaping requirement and then some are for the street tree requirements um rather than specifically all just towards the buffer. and the planning commission may approve an alternative landscape design that meets the intent of this ordinance. So in this case, although all plantings within the buffer are counted towards the screening requirement, we do find that the landscaping plan is meeting the intent of the ordinance. They're meeting the intent of the buffering there. There's limited space on site to put on some of these new um replacement trees and street trees and parking lot trees. So, we do still see the intent of the landscape ordinance being met with what they're proposing and we do recommend um the planning commission allow this with the addition that the proposed shrubs which are Kodiak orange deer villa which are deciduous they're not going to provide an effective year round screening. So we just um with consistent screening of what we've required in the past, we recommend evergreen shrubs to be incorporated instead of deciduous shrubs. Uh parking and loading um churches, temples and auditoriums um are required to have one parking space per three seats or one parking space per 6 ft of benches. Um, and the total required

parking space for this site is 121 spaces and seven required barrier free spaces. They're proposing a total of 207 spaces with nine barrier free spa spaces. So, um, there's a little summary in here, but overall they're adding a total of 86 additional parking spaces. uh building design and architecture. There are no plans uh to do any additions or expand the building footprint. So, the building is remaining as is. Exterior lighting. Um the photometric plan currently does not comply with the minimum lighting intensity requirements at the property and or the street rideway. Um so, the applicant needs to reduce that lighting. Um I believe it's over the property line of.5. So at the property line it can only be.5 ft candles. I believe it's showing at 6 right now. So they'll just need to reduce that lighting. And then light poles have a maximum height of 25 ft in the industrial district. It just from how they're measuring it. It needs to be measured um from gray to the top of the fixture. That's not how they're measuring it. So it does appear they're over that 25 ft. So that will either need to be reduced or a new measurement will be needed to be given. Uh waste enclosure is not is not being proposed to change. So that will remain and then no additional signage have been shown on the site plan. But if additional signage or new signage, they would have to get a sign permit through the building department. Um so planning is recommending the planning commission grant tenative site plan approval for application 2587 rayon center site plan on five mile as presented with um the

condition of all engineering items be addressed prior to final stamp and these six listed uh conditions in the staff report that I did go over with you. Um and that is our report. I'm happy to take any questions and the applicant is here as well as the township engineer. Thank you. Thank you. And the engineering report.

Um good evening commissioners. Um we have received the site for the Orion Center parking lot expansion uh prepared by Getaway Engineering and Surveying. Uh we just have a few comments on this application. Uh, as Liz noted, we did a tree removal uh review back in July of last year where we uh allow for some tree removals and um um that was for them to complete their tree survey and to be able to complete the design of the um proposed Culberg extension. Um the proposed work is located within the branch of Tonkish Creek uh which is a regulated wetland. The creek is regulated pursuant to part 301 inland lakes and streams of the natural resources and environmental protection act. So approval from Eagle will be required for the proposed parking lot and Colbury extension. Um they are proposing um to collect the storm water by a single storm sewer collection system and discharge to an existing detention basin just southeast um of their site. Uh the original detention system for the Ryan center in Wasa side um but was designed for 13.53 acres of the sites combined uh based on the original engineering plans for the entire parcels. the existing detention basins provided volume exceeds the required volume. So we believe that there was enough capacity in the pond for the proposed development that is uh 86 acres. Um a current review and approval from Wayne County uh will be required to confirm that no on-site detention or pretreatment or upgrades to existing detention basin will be required. Uh it shall be noted that this

is just for the 86 acre uh parking lot extension. um if they're wanting to do any other work um it will most likely require other storm um detention systems or upgrades. Um regarding the access um it will be provided of five mile road. So they will have to get approval from the county and I did see that they provide a circulation plan and maneuver wheel plan. Uh we just uh are asking that they clearly indicate the tire and overhand vehicle paths. Uh other than that um engineering is recommending approval of the tentative site plan and I'm happy to answer any questions if you have any. Thank you.

Great. Thank you. And the applicant is here. You you have a presentation or comment? Yeah, you have to come up by the mic. My name is Mouhammad Usman. Uh and uh I have been involved in this project right from the beginning uh about uh now 11 12 years. So uh this request is uh to add parking spot as uh I think about 80 parking spot. Uh we have built this center uh in a location where there is no street parking and especially on Friday, Saturday, Sunday uh when there are community event uh in our gym uh the parking spot uh we don't have parking spot. There's double parking and we are facing that parking uh difficulty. At the same time, the pilot drive is heavy heavy uh uh truck uh trucking traffic on pilot drive and especially our uh prayer service which is uh 11:00 in this uh summer and uh about 5:00 uh in the morning. uh there is very uh uh difficult driving conditions uh because we are uh sharing the the access to the center from pilot drive. So this will create a safer uh uh ingress to our

facility and also divide uh the traffic that is coming into our center from two locations. So we did uh do a traffic uh count and survey through a professional company that uh Wayne County recommended. So uh we are about to get our permit to get access from 5 mile and we are very actively working with the uh eagle uh to get a small project which is 100 ft covering of the culvert uh it's a sea culvert that will be put in uh we proposed one design and that with the modification we have submitted a second design And we are very hopeful that within one two months we will get approval from Eagle to cover about 100 ft and also we will we are very close to getting approval to access from 5 mile road. So the traffic survey and everything is in favor. Uh I will take uh the questions uh and uh answer uh what whatever uh the board want to ask.

Okay. Thanks. by profession. Uh I'm an engineer. I'm a civil engineer, mechanical. I worked with worked with Bill at Ford 28 years. We work together. Uh I know him from Ford. Uh uh I took off after 28 years uh working at Ford. I work for Striker now. Uh we're volunteer- based organization. I design uh devices for cranial and u spine surgeries. Uh have been doing that for seven years now. Good. After automotive into medical.

Okay. I I have a questions uh for Liz. So currently, if I understand this right, so they're required to have 121 spaces for parking based on the Okay. But they're going to end up with 207. Uh that seems like overparking to me. Uh so I want to make sure I had that right. So why are you increasing it so much from you're only required to have 121 now you're going up to 207? And we've had been having discussions about being overparked at various sites. So is this in anticipation of the expansion of the current building or what's causing that?

No, there are four days in in a week. the traffic uh the parking requirement is higher. So when uh we have gathering in our gym so uh there are many uh there is some weddings and other thing that happens in the community. So they take about 100 parking spot. Then the prayer service is going on at the same time because our one of the prayer service is uh at sunset and one at uh which is uh about nowadays it is 10:00. So now there are too many people and there's no street parking. Uh community has grown. uh there are tremendous very large number of people are moving into Plymouth and uh that corridor of Northville due to this center. So uh and that Muslim community in this area is growing and uh this is the only center for them. So we are seeing that increase for the prayer. We don't have any uh difficulty of people standing for the prayer but the difficulty is on the parking as people are

so it's multiple uses in that building that's causing that need. Yes. Oh okay. Mhm. Okay. Basketball the this gym is a multi-purpose gym. There's a tournament that happens in the community. Uh betting uh birthdays uh graduation and all that. And it uh it happens at the same time. Two or three events going on at the same time. And I see you're planning a a soccer field sometime in the future. So I'm sure that will also increase the uh parking needs. Yes. Okay. Questions?

My first question is the planning team reviewed this twice before it got to the planning commission, right? Which is good. And I see the 87 spots are the the paved area that they do need for for overflow and to resolve a safety condition with trucks going on Pilot Avenue. So where it's gray I was okay with. But I was very disappointed when I went and toured the site back on March 29th to see what was a beautiful forest of sugar maples and black walnut trees. Uh perfect hardwood trees that have been decimated, right? Uh, and it seems like from a process standpoint, we're out of order, right? So, I'm disappointed that this is we get to comet now. These trees have already lost their lives, right? And the potential expansion to the gravel lot, which goes up into the northeast corner where the the verbiage is written, right, um, in that block, right? Um, you guys, when are you planning on on potentially taking that into a gravel lot? the timing.

Uh, ask the question again. You got you got a parking lot that's going to be paved, right? Which is the gray, right? That's 87 spots, correct? And then you got potential gravel up in here for yet additional parking. Is that correct? No. No, there's no plan. Uh, that was phase first. We proposed that and then our board didn't agree with that that we have that is not in the plan. Okay. So, we're not doing this green area now. No, not at all.

Okay. So, the the point I'm trying to get to is a lot of trees lost their lives up in that area, right? And there are better trees in the back up on the hilly area that goes to the soccer, which were absolutely beautiful. I I can only imagine you guys having been able to tap maple syrup for crying out loud with the kids. What a great environmental class that could have been on on environment, but it's too late now. So, we've we've decimated for the future soccer field in the the potential gravel parking lot, and the gravel parking lot's not going to happen. So, it just seems like from a process standpoint here, Liz, we're we've got the cart ahead of the horse. The treerees already gone at a a rate of 82.2%. And I'm glad to see Plymouth Township was welcoming back in 2014 because I think we had a conversation, okay, about how tough it was. You couldn't get into Northville, right? Yes. uh you were denied again and again and again and and greatly the township was welcoming and just we have got to find a better way to to do what our residents want right protecting the trees providing safe parking and traffic for churchgoing people which we're very mindful of here but my gosh I I just feel like we let the community down from what our suries are asking us to do on protecting greenery on this proposal

it's not a reflection of the applicant it's a reflection of our process and we have to fix it.

And that's the point when we were discussing parts of the master plan, it's uh recommendations to the board of trustees. Uh part of that is, you know, protecting those trees and the process uh because it's just reviewed administratively. So I think that's where uh I I agree with what you're saying, Bill, but uh that's something that needs to be addressed at a higher level. Well, and Dennis, I agree with you and I think we got to address it quick, right? But my my request for the applicant is this future soccer field, I'd rather see the trees that are back there stay for a lot longer, right, than just continue the clearing that's gone down because this is a beautiful track. That before picture of all that greenery that was there was just majestic. It was one of the most majestic areas along five Mile and it's it's been riddled, if you will, to an 82.2% clip, which is really unfortunate. So, I'm not mad at you. I'm not offended. I'm not disappointed in you. Right. It was a plan and the plan doesn't have the money to do anything you wanted to do. But boy, I would have left these trees for a later date.

Okay. Anyone else?

I have a question about the second access on the five mile. Um, for what purpose do you need that second access? uh the the traffic flow when uh people are leaving from pilot drive it u there are many instances where it blocks the traffic on 5 miles all the way to uh the back road and in some instances all the way to uh the Sheldon road. So we we do because uh when people are getting out of that uh it does uh back up the traffic. So with the two entrances coming in uh we will be able to divide the traffic coming from from uh the pilot drive and so people coming from the east will go uh into from that part uh entrance and coming from the west they will use the uh potentially they can still use it both but uh it will help uh the uh circulate the traffic much better and Then it gives access uh to the to the double door which is at the back and people will be able to just park there and go out of there uh from that side because uh this building has two very large entrances one from the back one from the enter and the back entrance is not that much used uh with this uh this will uh open up that avenue and it will give us access uh to more parking lot also directly otherwise uh if you can see if we don't have that parking all these people will be moving through one parking and we'll create further uh the bottleneck.

Thank um well I guess it sounds like it's in part to to correct an existing problem with your existing parking lot. Um and what I understood you were saying is that the additional parking was to serve a different use in the building at the site. So, one like for weddings and um events and then one for church services. Mhm. So, wouldn't they I mean I can't imagine would there be a time when everyone in the lot is leaving at the same time or entering at the same time?

Yes. Uh the prayer services uh are at the fixed time and all people come at this like Friday prayer. People come uh nowadays it is at uh there are two services because of the uh capacity uh parking capacity is not there. Now we host at 12:30 and then one at uh around 2:00. So with that uh we uh are able to manage but uh there is a complaint from Westo. Our people are parking in the Westo parking lot and uh double parking. Uh there was an instance last year when uh there was an emergency situation for a person and the ambulance could not come into the parking lot because of the congestion in the park uh in our facility. There's no street parking uh because we are not in the residential area. So uh the only way we can manage the traffic on site is uh bringing it from uh two lo uh entrances and uh adding the parking lots.

Okay. So it'll help circulation in the lot. Yes.

Okay. Thank you. Um just to support what you were saying, um I've noticed on FiveM Road that the uh truck traffic coming north on Pilot Drive, a lot of these are 53 ft semi-trailers and they a lot of them want to turn west on Five Mile because this tree those trucks are so long. It takes a long time before there's a break in traffic on Five Mile Road where they can pull out. So, I can certainly see how that would create a a problem with your um congregation be able to access the site and particularly leaving the site

um if you're having that kind of truck traffic. So, I I understand why you're asking for the five mile road exit.

Uh I myself, as I said, I I'm a civil engineer and at the same time mechanical engineer. I went to Michigan State. I worked for Department of Transportation. When I worked with the county this time, uh they are saying that uh the design the in uh the the design of the five mile coming into pilot drive is not designed well. uh so uh then there are multiple fatal accident already happened on 5 mile road and when I drive at uh nowadays uh the morning prayer service is uh uh 6:30 I go there it's dark I cannot distinguish between a moving traffic coming from the south to north to exit I just cannot see whether it's moving or is stopped so that's a entrance of pilot drive. We when we were building this site, we had the plan to come from 5 mile, but the easiest way was to get the shared drive and come in there and see how it will work. And what we see is it's not safer for our aging population driving in. And uh and with the heavy trucking uh traffic there was uh multiple situation where truck uh just broke on pilot drive and there was no way to get in and out on pilot drive. Uh to get answer your question there were two situation this year. the truck uh leaving the pilot drive to 5 mile was uh broke and it was on that and now double traffic was going on on the one side. Okay, this will relieve us coming from five mile if there is some problem on uh uh pilot drive.

So, do you have when when your services uh you know are lending out and then coming back in, is there a traffic system that you've told the the folks on how to get in and out? Do they do they pass each other sort of in the parking lot as one service ends and the other one begins?

Uh yes, there is a gap but we have hired security and traffic management people. They manage it. Uh they have walkie-talkie. We we uh we work with Vesto. Vesto is very good. Uh they allow some time uh we get uh approval from them and then we direct the traffic toward them. Every week we we use their traffic their parking lot every week. Uh and we did a traffic survey ourself. I had two people sit many times at the entrance of the pilot drive and entrance of the ran center and we counted that and then we engaged uh a company uh that Wayne County asked me to do and they did a professional traffic count and with that recommendation came went to Wayne V Wayne County that this uh five mile access will uh help the traffic on five And we are adding acceleration lane uh deceleration lane or we adding a lane if you will see the latest plan uh that will help uh in the traffic flow from primary.

So your traffic pattern is very similar to to Beckridge or Northridge Church right which has outlet on Northal it's got it on Ridge Road right because of the volume of people that go there and it's great that it's a thriving church. Okay. So, you know, it this the safety call is real, right? I mean, I I was on a Sunday and there were trucks coming down there and so it there's a safety issue. This extra parking lot solves it, right? I mean, you're a very good engineer, right? Both mechanically and civil. So, I don't doubt anything you said here. Just um you guys had a a great concession on not having the the the prayer calls going out on the PA system, which was good. I just love to see you guys try to make this right because of a future parking lot. it didn't happen of gravel and a future soccer field. Boy, it'd be nice to to do way better than the six inches of DBH that the guidelines say you need to take out. And I know you'll probably take that back to the the church parish there and hopefully have that conversation because we've got to find a way to restore greenery above and beyond was taken out.

We we have a plan. We will uh add whatever needed to preserve and add greenery to the site whatever possible to make a motion if you are ready. Yeah, I was just going to say does anyone else have any comments?

I I have one comment before Sy's motion. Um this is directed at the planning department. We've addressed the subject of having discussions with developers and land owners before the first drawing is done on a piece of land to try to look at opportunities for to save greenery tree stands. Eventually from that master plan hopefully we'll get um legislation in front of the board of trustees that will make this law but that's going to be a period of time. So Liz, you and and Laura the first time anybody comes in to talk about a piece of land that's got vegetation like this, get in touch with Dennis. Let's have that discussion before there's any engineering done, before there's a discussion with Eagle, etc. Um, again, no, you know, you guys follow the process. It's good. But we really need to to grab this by the horns. And until there's formal legislation, we need you all to be particularly active in directing the homeowners, land developers to at least have a preliminary discussion on how we can look at the options to save more trees. Okay.

Absolutely agree. I I think it should really needs to be uh I mean, if it's me or any anybody else in the future, it can't be just one person. And I think it needs to come to the commission. I agree 100% Dennis that that

whether there was one discussion or two, right, when the first proposal hit McKenna Hall's desk, this should have come immediately into the next meeting, right? So we could see what they were thinking because this discussion, if it was just that gray area, it would have been approved probably in 5 minutes, right? And unfortunately, it's all after the fact. But my goodness, it it it's all the more reason why there has to be teeth in the master plan wording verbiage as well as in the exhibit A that says what we're going to do. So the trustees know and I know S's going to make take the message there loud and clear, but my goodness, right? What a unfortunate situation we're sitting in here, right? That that's evolved that uh you know they have every right to do what they want to do to make this safer, which I'm for, and to get more utility out of land. They paid for it, right? But there's a happy medium and the trees are paying the price, right, for a process that had the cart in front of the horse here.

Yeah. It's a qu it's a it's a fine line between property rights, an individual's property rights, whether it's commercial, religious, residential, whatever. Uh and um what the township would like to see and preserved and that kind of thing. But there I think what we try to to do is have more sensitivity uh toward that. We try to do that to some degree at Plymouth Walk. Mhm. It was to me mixed success. I think that could be beefed up in the future. Yeah. Um but I mean I think you know planning and others know what the feeling is of the commission and the residents because that's where we got it from.

Right. I agree. I would like to make a motion that the planning commission grant tenative site plan approval for application 2587 Ryan Center. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Yes. Okay. Ryan Center site plan on Five Mile Road as pres presented with a condition that all six listed engineering items be addressed and satisfied prior to final stamp or with the list or with the listed conditions below. There support. Second. Okay. moved by Commissioner Grath and supported by uh Commissioner Pop to grant tenative site uh plan uh approval subject to said conditions. All in favor signify by saying I opposed. Motion carries.

Congratulations. Thank you very much. Good luck. Thank you very much. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you.

Sorry. App application 2582 the hidden in enclive clustered housing option and MARA your report.

Thank you chair Solowski Liz Hart with McKenna. Uh this is for a clust housing option. You guys did review this um in April or I'm sorry March of this year just last month. Um, just to go over it briefly, um, this is a development proposed to be located on the south side of Powell Road, east, um, east of the Powell Road and Napier Road section. The proposal includes 11 detached single unit residential homes on 3.63 acres to be known as Hidden Enclave. Um, back in March, uh, the co back in December of 2025, the planning commission did hold a public hearing and then tabled the application for a year. Then in March of 2026, the applicant came back and the planning commission gave them some direction and then also postpone making a recommendation to the board of trustees for up to 6 months. So, we are here now for the next step for the planning commission to review their changes and to possibly make a recommendation to the board of trustees. Um, so I'm going to uh go over the changes that have been made since they last saw you. Uh, the applicant still proposing 11 units. Um, and that's a 3.05 05 dwelling units per acre. Um, and within this uh R1S district and the flu map, it does meet the density of between one to three dwelling units per acre. Uh, going over the purpose and intent of them meeting the cluster housing option. Um, so the cluster housing option allows for more units than normally would be

achieved through traditional development. This development through the R1S could have a total of nine units and that's the they're proposing the cluster housing option to get up to 11 units. Um, in the previous staff report, staff did note that while the parcel may present some design constraints, uh, we do believe it could still be developed under the R1S district. Um but however, this parcel could be suitable for a cluster housing development. Uh if the planning commission does determine that, um from the last revision, the plans do show an improved community park. That's lot B, that has been turned into a pollinator butterfly garden with um more of a pedestrian path with a few more benches. And then um they also added some extra landscaping al along the lot line of lot six and the new community garden butterfly um to separate those two lots so it doesn't necessarily look like lot six is just one giant lot. Um and then they also added a little seating area near Powell Road on the northwest side. It's just a little path that goes into that landscape area with a bench. Um, so we do see that these revisions do provide a more substantial demonstration of meeting the intent of the chill requirements. Um, and then for architectural character, they've mostly kept the same plans except for unit 6 now shows a side garage instead of a front garage. So only one unit has changed from front garages to a side garage. That's unit six. That's near the community uh garden area. Um circulation and access. This comment

was uh mentioned before, but they just don't identify the number or location of required parking spaces. And just based on looking at it, it looks like they do provide enough parking. Just if they do move forward with a um development plan, they'll need to address that. Um, moving forward, uh, nothing's essentially changed out with the site layout or the parcel configuration. Um, there was a Powell road setback. So, the zoning ordinance requires a 43 ft street setback measured from the Powell road center line, uh, which they've provided. But then, uh, section 22.10.8E AE requires a 50ft perimeter setback. Um, however, the planning commission can approve a reduced setback. So, they are proposing um 38.7 ft and 39.2 ft from the Powell Road setback. Um, and I believe uh even the rear yards would need to meet this. So, what they're proposing for their rear yard setbacks would also be a reduction of that perimeter setback. I think they're proposing um let's see where 35 ft is proposed. Um no changes to natural features. Um they're proposing again to remove four trees. uh none that qualified as heritage trees. Um so they'll need to replace those with a 1 to 4 inch replacement. Um landscape buffer hasn't

changed. The community park did change. Um and during that meeting, you guys did express concern about the community park lacking sufficient features. Um so you you'll want to take a look at that tonight. Uh we do uh believe that um what is being proposed does generally meet the basic principles of the cluster housing option and design is designed in a manner that is compatible with the surrounding residential properties and available public infrastructure. So, we do recommend um that the planning commission forward the this to the board of trustees with a recommendation of approval. Um I will say if there are any revisions to the plan, if you move forward with recommending approval, you you are allowed to put conditions on this um for the development plan. Um nothing too specific, but you can do that. So, I just wanted to note that. Um, and that is my overview of the changes that have been done. I'm happy to take any other questions. Um, the fire department and the engineering department did provide updated letters. I believe they're dated April 4th or something like that. So, they did provide updated letters and those are in your packets. And our engineer is here as well. And the applicant is here as well. Thank you.

Thank you. And the engineering report. Uh, good evening commissioners. Um we are recommending approval of the cluster housing. They did address our main concerns regarding the site layout and the private road um layout. Uh we are just noting minor comments that can be addressed at site plan. So we have no further concerns for this cluster housing option um review. If any questions please let me know. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any applicant is here. Yes.

Okay. You want to come up? But I have a couple questions uh Liz on the report just clarification. So um I have to get the page here. Hold on. On page five under purpose and intent the third paragraph uh the part that is uh underlined. So while uh planning believes that the parial may present some design constraints, staff believes it could be developed on the R1S district. Uh however, the parcel's configuration may make it suitable for clustered housing. So am I to interpret that that it could be developed as it as its uh use is designated now or under the clustered housing? Yeah, I it can be uh developed under the R1S as now I they have a alternative plan so they can do just nine units and it meet code um or the regulations in the R1S district

the the parallel plan. Is that what you're referring to? Yes, it's just the cluster housing option, right? It's it's supposed to give a benefit to the community. So that's like we would want to see a benefit with especially with subdivisions. Um it's just does their proposal meet that intent is the question to the planning committee.

Okay. So then uh that kind of refers back to uh that I I always call sort of a weasel word. Uh the sentence reads um as propo as the proposed development generally meets the basic principle of cluster housing. So it generally meets it. So it either to me it does or it doesn't. Generally I don't know what how can I interpret that word. Uh maybe that word should have been updated. Um cuz the report last time it was the community garden or lot B wasn't giving us much of a benefit to the community.

Generally it it does. I think it just really means your standard of does this meet your commission's uh interpretation of the intent. Does it meet it? As staff, I do believe it generally meets it. It could move forward. I think they have I mean I think the community garden has improved. I'm not sure about the pedestrian area along Powell Road as in terms of like right now existing, but I think in the future it'll be a lovely addition to the road. All right. All right. Thanks. The floor is yours. Okay. Actually, I would also like to clarify planners report.

Um, on that same page at the top, it says uh under pro purpose and intent is proposing an 11 unit development that would typically accommodate approximately nine units. If you look on the parallel plan, which is um page one of the deck here, it's toward the back for those of us that have the full blueprints. Okay. I don't see a retention pond on this plot. So, if a retention pond is required on single family housing, which I believe it is, that's going to take up one of these lots. So this is really an eight lot, not a nine lot.

You're right. Yes. Okay. So I I we need to update that on the report. Okay. And then my second point is simply that um 11 versus 8 is about a 37% increase in density. So this is you know we're making a significant uh allowance here by allowing this to go in with 11 units. And that does suggest that we really need a clear understanding of what the cluster housing benefit is. Okay. All right. Does somebody else have a comment on the finance report? Okay. Well, now the floor is yours.

All right. I'm Brian Msker from UML Group. I'm here with Tony Randazzo, the owner of the property, and my colleague Mitch over there. Uh, could you go to the color drawing in the in the uh I'll pull it up in a sec. I don't think that was what color I wanted. Let's see that is Is that the right one?

Yeah. Yeah.

Um you'll you'll notice the color drawing and uh how how nice this um butterfly garden, pollinator garden is. Uh we've got that one uh unit six uh with the with the side entry uh garage and uh and could you go from uh from this to the other? Is is is that easy for you to do? Yeah. Right there. That's good. That's good. If you if you can uh circle your cursor over the over the over the uh Yeah, right there. And there's those those are two benches um a sidewalk and uh those are Yeah. Yeah. There you go. And those are those are surrounded by hydrangeanger and fountain grass. And um that that is uh a part of our our our uh public benefit. And go go back to the other one. And that in this has a path that goes all the way around three benches and the um the landscaping uh near the the property line of six is a Norway spruce, a sugar maple, red twig, dogwood, juniper, and hydrangeas. So that is really nicely landscaped around there. plus all the uh you know the B bomb and everything else that's it's in that's what all the pictures are around in the perimeter the uh the be the go the go ahead pardon me in addition we put six trees around there if you notice in my on the color chart the little green see those and I also sent uh gave you a kind of a summary of the enhancements that we

put on the plan see that around the butterfly garden big spruce trees. Yeah. And there's also some benches in there. It's, you know, it's why I gave you the color version of it. You can see them in there. And by THE WAY, THEY DO, we uh you can pass this around. We did this at St. Paul's Church, Ghost Point Farms, and it really does attract bees and butterflies. It's It works if you, you know, you get the right flowers. That's uh just the design there is of a cross. Who would be responsible for maintaining that? The homeowners association. Okay. So, it'll be written in the HOA agreement.

Yes. Yes. But it's really a beautiful addition. It uh people love it. I'm I'm I'm a gardener in my spare time. Um you guys have done a really nice layout with this. This these are really high quality plants. But just to reiterate um Sandra's comment um this type of garden requires yearly maintenance. Oh yeah. Within two years if this isn't maintained this will be a mess. Yeah.

That's just nature. That's the way nature operates. So you need to be really clear in your uh HOA agreement um call outs to the residents. You know what is the process to to maintain this? We'll get that set up especially if approval of this is all contingent upon and based upon the fact that this is supposed to be the special community benefit. It's not a benefit if it if it's not maintained.

Yes. And which raises another issue for me. So, it used to be that um these HOA agreements were brought to the planning commission and then they were reviewed by the township attorney. That hasn't happened in some years. Um I'm not sure why it developed that way, but it did. So, in this particular case, if it were finally approved, uh I would like to see that uh HOA agreement so we can especially if we base this approval if if we do approve it. Exactly. uh on this garden. I'm a little confused. What's the difference between the other board that you sent us in this

that one exists right now if you if you ever in the uh by St. Paul's and Gross Point Farms. Oh, we actually did one. Mhm. Just uh I know it works and get a lot of compliments from it. The only concern I It is beautiful. I like it. the the um the only concern I have is boxwood because there's that boxwood moth that seems to be devastating a lot. So, is this particularly um more hardy than the typical boxwoods that are being attacked?

Yeah, we're aware of that. You have to keep them sprayed like anything. You know, this will be maintained by uh uh professional landscaper. And I I do uh know what you mean and we've been able to combat it, but that's an astute point. Pass this down. Oh, okay. So, you would rather do 11 smaller homes than eight larger ones.

Yeah. Here here's here's the deal on that. We've been building these larger homes for at least my career 50 years. and um there's just too many of them. Uh and what we don't have and I would encourage you to consider any remaining land you have uh for people my generation you know we don't want stairs. So uh we have we prefer to build something that is a lot more in demand and desperately needed. First floor masters ranches with basement of course. Of course. Yeah. and a garage. A twocar Oh, yeah. Absolutely. A two-car garage. Okay.

Yeah. And you So, you think these are a little bit easier sell than bigger homes? I think there's a really high demand for them and um there's a premium associated with it because there's just none around. Yeah. Everything that's been built for the past 50 years has been for people with larger families which uh doesn't exist. So, first baby boomer is 80 years old this year. Uh, and u, I'm not far behind and I don't want, you know, last time I was here, I was in a a walker in a wheelchair. Uh, it's just a fact. That's what we need today. Yeah.

So, I'd highly encourage you to consider that for the future. It's just a big need. Okay. Was the question answered about uh the parallel plan and the detention pond? Yes. She confirmed it should be eight instead of nine. Oh, okay. I I probably was reading something and I didn't catch it. Okay. And she'll correct that in the in the Okay. Right.

I am still not totally clear and I'm not sure that anyone can make it clear. Um, it it appears to me that the cluster housing option is being utilized to allow more units in a a limited space versus less units. Um, and I'm not totally clear that that we need to do that. cluster housing uh almost always is to get a couple more units, right? You make them smaller in the cluster, right? I understand that.

Like if if we were to do that that the typical subdivision, there'd be no public benefit, right? That we don't have room for any of that. I understand the only reason we're looking at a public benefit is because of the request to do cluster housing. I get that. Excuse me, am I allowed to ask a question? Uh no not not at this point but it will be Can I answer can I answer please? Exact. Okay thank you. There will be an opportunity is not uh prov you know not required but we always offer it to people that do show up. So as soon as we're done with our discussion I'll recognize you and you can come up with your comment. Thank you. I'd like to make a comment.

Pardon? I'd like to make a comment. Sure. So my understanding of the ordinance is that CHO should only be used where the parcel has unique constraints, natural features or roadway conditions that make con conventional development difficult. Is that true here? 3.6 6 acres uh is uh you know is a small lot and um the cluster housing uh allows us to get enough units to make it worthwhile

financially. Yeah, this to me this sounds like this is financially driven and not does not follow the intent of the ordinance. Well, we get to uh put the smaller lots and you get the first floor masters. And that's what I meant. You can't have small You can't have first floor masters with larger lots. I mean, that seems counterintuitive to me. Uh well, the larger lots would uh be indicative. We'd make them larger and and we would move out of this market. They would build colonials. Yeah, they just would.

And I'm not the builder choice. But I mean, and that's that's okay. I mean, it's not where the demand is. And I'm not suggesting anyone should agree with that. Uh but you got plenty of big houses. Uh but they could be could be done. They sell for more money. Actually, you'd probably make more because you'd sell them for more. But I don't think that's where the market is. And at this point in my life, I like to design for what's needed rather than what's necessarily profitable. I mean, Plymouth is a high high demand area. you'd get the money, but it's just not where we should be at.

I just struggle with approving a CHO in this case. I do know that others have been approved. I'm not suggesting that that's indicative of what this should be, but there have been others that have been done in Plymouth Township or in other areas. No, in Plymouth Township. Well, I'm new to the commission, so I haven't approved one yet. We do have some new members, she myself included. We do have newer members on the commission who might not necessarily agree with what has been done in the past and that's why we're very respectful of that.

Okay. Thank you. So I guess one last question. How does approving a CHO here produce a better result than the a traditional development that's permitted under the ordinance? Great question. Uh I think I don't know if it's better. I mean, it's definitely what is needed and if we're doing it for the benefit of the community at large, you know, people that have lived here their whole lives and they want to stay here, they have church, family, whatever, people generally don't like to move out of an area unless they have to, this is an alternative for them to stay in the community. Thank you.

You're welcome. That goes back to the same argument that we had the last time. You know, smaller homes perhaps for the folks that are downsizing, but we have found from talking to realators and others that people like to stay in their homes as long as they can. Um, so the question is what market are we trying to appeal appeal to and also the mix of the type of housing that we have. So that's really kind of the basic thing which goes back to the planners report that said um uh you know it still could be developed under the traditional way. So it's what you opt for

you mentioned smaller homes and I think we asked that question what is the size of these homes and and size is relative. So I remember the size they they mentioned was larger than the home I live in. So to me that wouldn't be a downsize. So again, it's a downsizing is a relative term. It is. It depends on where you're coming from. Right. Exactly.

Dennis, we had a development I think similar to this on Ann Trail, right? Just as you're starting to go down the hill, right opposite Beacon Hill on the south side, right? There's a rectangular lot and there are a lot of units jammed in there, right? It's right beside the gated community that's just a little bit further east. You got Trailwood, Beacon Trail, gated community where Loren lives and then you got that new one that's probably three, four years old maybe. Right. Right. The reserves. The one street. Yeah. The reserves. Was that a cluster housing? Oh yeah. What was the key innovation in there that was the benefit to the community? Was there one? This is the one in Ann Arbor Trail, South.

Yes, sir. Yeah. That was before I was on the commission. But if I recall correctly, there's quite a large natural area at the far back with the creek. Yeah. That was preserved by this approach. Yeah. Question. You don't drive down the road. You don't back there. And the question is, could they have ever developed that? They show the parallel plan, but yeah. and and maybe they could have but where I was going to go is is there any parking spots so someone who doesn't live there could have the benefit of coming in there to sit back by those trees right

well that's the other that's the question that I had raised earlier you know a community benefit and is community what is the community is it the folks that just live there or is it the greater Plymouth Township community it's both actually right because they both fall in the umbrella of community that sub plus others As I look at this, right, this is a better execution than a gazebo with a park bench with a sidewalk, which was

which was I don't know, maybe a Dminus effort at best on a good day. Okay, but I mean Dennis's own words I think were bring back a knock our socks off innovation. This was your opportunity to take the ball, run with it, slam dunk it, right? No one standing in the way. And this is better. Okay, but I'm I'm looking for that innovation, right? And it's it's better, but it's it might not be innovative enough. Number one. Number two, the fact that there's no parking in there, which we talked about in front of the retention pond to where maybe Tim might want to go walk on the grounds there in the butterfly park or sit in the bench, right? Or I I would I can't do that because there's so little parking there and usually have a fire lane on one side and the only cars can gun it. I see the same trouble of people coming for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, Easter, birthday parties, Michigan, Michigan State football parties, whatever it is. This place is going to be jammed with 11 units in there. And to Ashley's point, that was great research, the definition there. This is just a rectangle area. There's nothing unique about this this land. So, yeah, my socks are still on. They didn't get knocked off, unfortunately, with what I see, but it it's better. I'll give you guys credit, right? And I do like the the better of the honesty of answering the question, maybe this is what Plymouth Township needs. And to Dennis's point, I don't know there's going to be a rush of people downsizing. I do think you'd have a rush of people trying to move into Plymouth Township that are downsizing from Northville, which is what I did to come back, right? Because this is just an incredible community. So, as much as I love these houses and what you guys are doing, right, um there's not still enough here. it's not innovative enough for the community.

I I do see people, you know, cuz I personally witnessed uh this flower garden, butterfly garden and St. Paul's. I see people sitting on those benches all the time and they walk there. they don't drive because you know everyone is a lot more physically conscious these days and I see them all the time and I you know I can't obviously empirically tell you this but just witnessing it for two years uh cuz my grandkids go to school there and I I just see them sitting on the benches looking at the flowers they like it does attract people is anything going to be perfect from this point on I doubt it but it's an opportunity to create something that does not exist that's, you know, a high higher level product for needed. I mean, people that are going to be in these homes, this is not a uh it it it's really not attracting uh a family situation. It's attracting kind of a more empty neester. That's what it really what it is. Is there a need for it? You know, obviously we wouldn't have presented it if we didn't think so. the enhancements. It's going to be incredibly vegetated and um if you have an opportunity, you're on the east side, I would encourage you to go look at that butterfly park. It's beautiful.

Liz, I asked a question. I have a frog and I can't get rid of it. Um so, let's say this was all approved. The people all moved in and they decide at some point in time that they're tired uh paying HOA fees to maintain this garden. and they all took a vote, they could just not do it anymore. I mean, they could I I'm not 100% sure on that, but because it would be a part of the site plan, if they decided just to remove it, then that would be a site plan amendment. And I'm sure it's different in the cluster housing of how that needs to be amended and approved and if they could even do it

because there is a cluster housing where we had a community benefit and then the folks didn't want it. So what what we had proposed never came to uh reality. So I have a concern about that as well. Happy to look into that. Okay. I can give you the reference to it. You could write it into the master deed by

write it in the master deed. Yeah. I'd have to research it. That's the thing. The the the issue is you know some people would like to sit there. I mean I wouldn't mind it. There was a favorite spot of mine at at U of M's campus that uh was a perennial that I always enjoy. Um but um as opposed to the church garden where that's more of a public setting, people are encouraged to do that and it's available to them. This sits at the back. A lot of people going down the road aren't even going to know that's there. So it's really for the benefit of those people. Again raises to the question, what's the community benefit? Is it local or is it uh communitywide?

Um I have a couple more comments. Um first of all, we did a survey for the master plan and the by far the biggest preference of people that responded to the survey was single family homes on larger lots. That is that is kind of the trademark of Plymouth Township. Um, we've got a lot of those. I wish we had land to develop a lot more of them because my view is there would be demand for those even at the cost what they cost today. But we do have these smaller pieces of land and we need to look at those and and we do know that there is an interest in uh uh first floor masters. Our township supervisors made that very clear. We didn't see that in the survey. So, it's a subset of the bigger amount. So, I don't think we should just set this aside. Maybe it's an opportunity to to meet that need for the people that are looking for the single family or single floor smaller homes. But I do want to reiterate that the primary demand in Plymouth Township is for traditional single family homes on larger lots. That may not be consistent with what you're seeing across the metro, but it's very much the case in Plymouth Township. Now, in that context, on the parallel plan, um you have lots that are 100 ft wide, which is consistent with u the homes in far western Plymouth Township, but because of the shape of the land, you're only able to make them 120 ft deep, which is 12,000 square ft. I believe, and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I believe homes in that part of Plymouth Township are more like um 20,000 square ft. They're more like 200 ft depth. So because you only have 120 ft, that's going to constrict your floor plan, your square footage somewhat. So this is, you know, from the perspective of the planning commission, this is a piece of property that is a little bit

challenging to develop in a traditional single family type approach because given the amount of land that's available, you can only make the lots about 120 ft deep versus 200. So that would argue in favor of looking at a cluster housing option. So in the end on this, my take is I'm not I I would prefer if this was traditional single family housing because I think that's the primary need in Plymouth Township, but I'm not sure this piece of land really allows us to deliver what we're thinking of. So I see the two cluster housing benefits I see are are first obviously the butterfly garden which is um really very well laid out um as long as we're sure that it will be maintained after the developers finished and all the homes are sold. The second benefit is it does allow us to address, at least on this piece of land, the perceived need of people looking to downsize and go into smaller single floor lots. So in my case, if I put all those together, I still come out slightly on the side of saying that I think this barely meets the criteria for a cluster housing option. That's just how I see it. So how how delux let let's say this is approved with 11. So you got eight like 2300 2400 ft² and then three little smaller right

similar square footage because there there would be up top there would be a second story. Oh so three of them are twotory and eight are okay eight. So, yes. Okay, got it. 1300 times two. And with those stories and a half, you'd still have the master bath, the main main level. Okay. Um, your plans don't show the floor plans really don't show basement access. Um, are you these you are planning to put basement? Of course. Yeah. Never. Never. I don't know how you'd ever do that in Michigan.

Yeah. I don't either, but I just wanted to clarify. They just did it in Northville. Northville Downs. Yeah. Very few have basements. Not Not me. I'm not for that. Well, we built Township Hall without a basement and now we're wondering why. So, would this be a good time to ask for input from the Well, we'll see if anyone else. Is there any other comments or I can ask for public? So I have a question more of a process. So this is the preliminary and then

it's a recommendation what we're considering is a recommendation to the board of trustees uh to grant because they'll grant cluster housing option and then they come back to us with site plans. We move forward and has there's various steps and goes back to the board of trustees. This is the very first step. Got it. Start. It's this chart on page three. Yep. Yep. Okay. That's what I thought. That's why no, no one's coming with sighting, uh, you know, samples. Yeah. Okay. I mean, they give us rough ideas, but it's they haven't gotten to that point.

So, what So, the 2350, do you have any idea what they would list for, what they would sell for? Well, I'm thinking about that project that uh I can't think. I know the guy's first name. His name was Paul. They did a project on Ann Arbor Road, but we'd have to look at the market. Yeah. And get the current market value. They they'll be well done. Very well done. Um I mean, you're not going to make them as cheap as possible. They'll be nice. No way. Trimmed out and brick. Of course, they're going to sell more per square foot than any other traditional homes you have. So like 600 700 something. I think a little more than that.

Oh, more than It depends on the finishes that people will want. Probably in the eights. Okay. So, this is going to be pretty even though they're all mostly one story, pretty deluxe. Well, they get a very high premium because nothing exists. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we will pay special attention to the point that is well noted regarding the maintenance of it in the uh HOA uh documents. Any other comment?

Actually there was one more I wanted to make. Um this is not a heavily treed lot but there is trees along the side and particularly along the back. You could argue that under a traditional single family development, we might have lost more trees. The way the developer really is only removing four major trees on this and there is quite a bit of tree along the very bottom of the land. So that's again not fully to the extent that we'd like to see in a cluster housing option, but it is a partial consideration.

Would you be on those that tree line? Uh would you be excavating near there to put in any of the infrastructure? Um we moved the storm sewer in the back to to to get it to where we're only cutting down four trees. And I would say that uh that those those trees have to come out because they're they're right on top of the building, pretty close to the building. um that four is um they they have to come out. So you're not going to be excavating near the remaining trees? No.

We designed around it pursuant to your suggestion last time. All right. I'll uh ask that the member of the public, you sir, if you would come up and just uh give us your name. You have to sign in and give us your comment. This guy looks familiar.

Thanks for waiting so patiently. Uh thank you. First, I'll just start with an aside that I'm also a fan of basements. Um, I addressed this commission back in December during the public hearing and at the time I was I had mentioned that uh I live directly southeast of this property and even their their proposal said well the natural flow of rainwater is to the southeast and I live at the bottom of this tall burm and I said well according to what their plan was you know, I could be a stones throw away from their retention pond. And my concern was during a heavy rain, if it overflowed the uh retention pond, it would come barrel, the water would come barreling down the burm into my house. Um, and now I'm that the proposal said there were going to be some u pumps and I expressed at the time concern that well if there was uh a storm strong enough to overflow the retention pond, it probably knocked out the electric power and therefore the pumps wouldn't work. So I was wondering if the revised proposal has addressed that issue in anywhere in any way. We'll we'll ask that question. It's a good one. I do remember your comment from that time about that.

You weren't here last time. Yeah. Yeah. I I regret missing last month's uh meeting on the subject, but yeah, I'll do it just Yeah, we'll we'll get we'll catch him on that. Okay. Uh and my uh other question I I think to the applicant as well is I I know you must have done a survey so that you've known uh where the property line is between your property and the uh condo association's property and I was just wondering if there's some way I could get like a copy of it or so that I know where the property line actually is. Okay. I think Liz is that do you have that survey? Um

yeah, you can check with the planning department. They should have a copy of the of that survey, all the other documentations that's been presented to us. So you could uh you could go upstairs and see it. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. So then and you and you might even it probably if if it's in the packet, which I think it is, you can even look at it online. We might have to blow it up because, you know, it's hard to read it on the computer screen, but sometimes it's easier to see it blown up on a computer screen than on a piece of paper. It's your choice. Okay. I'll check into that. Okay. So then if you And I'll also give you a call if you have any anything while we're doing a project. I'll give you my card with my cell number.

Okay. I'd appreciate that. Yes. All right. Thank you. Bill, did you have a comment? I did. I wanted to catch your name. Uh Bob, you to Brock. All right, Bob. Good. Yes, so they did add that pump at the site plan last minute we reviewed it and you jog my memory on a good question asked. I didn't know if it's running electricity from DTE or if it's got solar backup, right? Uh just power from DTE. Okay, we do have a generator. And what will power the generator? Natural gas. Good. Good. Okay. Great answer.

Yes, that was the that was the answer I was hoping for. Yeah. Um sir, also on their site plan, it actually shows the three condos in your development that are closest to the site plan. So, you can probably look at it and pick out exactly which one is your house and where it relates to the site plan. So, I would definitely go see the building department. I think you'll be able to see exactly where your house is relative to the development. Okay. Yeah. come on in or look on a computer, whatever is easiest for you. Okay, great. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Here. Yeah. I just had one question because I we haven't talked about it. Will there be a sidewalk in front of this entire development? Yes.

Okay. Is there a sidewalk there now? No. Okay. Sandy, if I may, this this whole area, the south side of Powell, this will be the only sidewalk section for quite a bit. That's why I asked. Thank you.

Okay. Oh, okay. I was going to go over the drainage, but uh is that good enough? Uh why don't you go to the site plan and go to go to go up right go up go up right there if you if you zoom in in the corner. No, no, no. To the detention to the detention pond right there. Proposed backup generator. Yep. Y

great. Excellent.

And so the responsibility of maintaining it falls to the HOA. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, where do we stand on this?

Okay, I'll make a motion. Yeah, we have to

unless you, you know, we either recommend approval or denial or table it again or postpone it again. Um based on the analysis provided in this report as well as the additional discussion today um I recommend that we approve the hidden enclave cluster housing option. um to the board of trustees as the development as proposed meets the basic principles of cluster housing option again incorporating our discussion today and is designed in a manner that is compatible with surrounding residential properties and available public infrastructure. Is there support?

Second. Okay. moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pomp to recommend approval uh to the board of trustees for application 2582. And I think you should take a roll call vote. Yes. Uh Dennis Sabolski, no. Tim Boyd, yes. Steuart Pop, yes. Sandy Growth, no. Dan Callahan, no. And Bill, no. Pardon? No. No. Uh, Ashley Krueger. No. All right. So, fails. Okay. Um, five to two. So, do we need another motion? And

yes. Um, recommending that we not approve it. Right. Correct. Okay. Somebody want to make that motion? Yeah, I'll make the motion. on uh PC2582. I'd like to make a motion to not approve the cluster housing option as presented. Is there support? Support. Moved by Commissioner Hikes and supported by Commissioner Krueger to recommend denial to the board of trustees for the uh cluster housing op application 2582. You want to take another roll call? Okay. Dennis Sabolski. Uh yes. Tim Boyd. No. Stuart Pop. No. Sandy Growth.

Yes. Dan Callahan. Yes. Bill I Yes. Ashley Krueger. Yes. Okay. Six to two. 5 to2. Five to two. I'm sorry. 5 to2. All right. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, next up is the master plan. You want to you want to lead off with this discussion, Liz? Um yeah. Uh so this is for you. You guys are making a recommendation to the board of trustees to distribute the draft master plan for the 63day public comment period. Um this is the most recent draft minus Tim's um corrections from earlier this week. Those will be added to not after this meeting when you guys make the re or if you do make the recommendation. Um

for the purpose of the board it was just two percentages on one page. Yeah. So nothing major. Nothing major. Yes. Um but everything highlighted in yellow is what's been changed I believe since the the last time we we spoke about this. Um, so I don't have anything else to add. I'm happy to answer the questions best that I can. It says just with the exception of Tim's uh edit remains the same. A few questions. Sure.

Um, on page one, I mentioned this. This is the vision statement. I mentioned this at the last meeting. I I do not like the use of the word infill. More recently, smaller infill subdivisions. People don't in general have a clue what infill subdivisions are. So, is there a better way to put that? What page is that, Sandy? It's uh page page seven, actually. That was my word. Yeah. And I remember I questioned that. Yeah, you just have to spell it out. Small subs on small lots or something like that. Small lot subdivision.

Smaller subdiv smaller developments. Smaller developments maybe. Okay. And then um on page

nine, we're talking about re-imagining Ann Arbor Road as a community corridor. And again, there's that move towards putting residential in an Ann Arbor Road corridor. And I don't know that we specifically said yes, we wanted to do that. So, I'm not really comfortable with that language because um I don't think that anything that we've gotten from residents is indicative of their desire to make an the Ann Arbor Road corridor area a residential area or to provide any more mix than what already exists.

We did discuss that in a lot of detail. I just can't remember Sandy if you were part of the board. We were talking I I think well either you weren't a part of this board or you were on the board of trustees right um we did talk about potential places so be interesting to hear your thoughts wherever you were at that time right um

right near uh your area would be uh let's say where Vic Tanny's or you know used to be and maybe those office buildings the other area we talked about would be on Sheldon Road not on Ann Arbor Road but a similar feel to it on Sheldon just south of uh Ann Arbor Road. I mean what's I know we had a discussion maybe we should revisit that. What do you think?

I think um in in in general Ann Arbor Road corridor has been known as an area where there we do have auto service type things. I know we have too many curb cuts and that type of thing, but it's an area for for people to go to to get the services that they need here in Plymouth Township. I'm not comfortable with the mix of residential and that in in the in the same quarter area. And I kind of spelled that out earlier when we voted on the um senior housing. So, I'm just bringing it up because I mean you you could perhaps publish this and you could see what the residents have to say because if it really concerns them, they have that opportunity at that time to address it and say we don't we don't want this. Um, I just want to bring it up because it is something that I'm not comfortable with and I'm not sure that it's the way we want to move forward because I'm not sure that's the way our residents want to see us move forward.

Again, in this context, I think we were talking about town homes. um the very current popular town home configuration that is seen in a lot of um busy streets. Um I I kind of would like to see it stay in just because it would give us an opportunity to see what the public thinks. Sandy,

then we should that way, right? Because neighborhood sounds like it's a subdivision. There's not a room but a subdivision in there. It's it's you're going to be squeezing whatever you can get. And we did have the discussion, Dennis, to your point. I think it was in December, right? Um when we actually talked about the town homes that were there didn't really fit, but boy, if we could do something and Laura put a couple places up on the screen there by the old Wendy's, I think was one of them to try to squeeze a couple things in, right? And it was town home. We had discussion. The Wendy thing wasn't probably the best example to use, but I think a better example would be uh Enan Sheldon, even though it was because there are there were homes there that have transitioned into office commercial.

Uh and maybe we talked initially about if we could get u that old fitness center and Burger King and the animal place. We thought also the office, but we understand that he's putting money into it, renovating it. they're they're viable. So, that probably in the future would not come forward, but we can leave it in. It's not meaning we're going to do it, right? And and I'm okay with you leaving it in because we are going to go out to the public with this and that gives them an opportunity if they do not like it to speak up. So, I'm I'm okay with leaving it in. I just wanted to make it. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it.

And this that OSR thing right here with the Burger King, the veterinarian, and the Vict Tanny, right? We had a lengthy discussion on boy it'd be nice to put some kind of housing in there because it's so easy to get on the freeway a and get to the airport b if if you're ch traveling if you're young professional or walking across the street to Henry Ford if you were a nurse or a doctor. Right. It it's a great place and it would black out that red huge Henry Ford sign that all the neighbors stood up and said they don't like seeing it. So and again Bill you don't live in this area. True. So as I speak about it, I speak about it also as a resident who has to deal with these particular issues.

But you know, I have a question on that Henry Ford sign because I don't come down this way so much in in darkness, but I did the other day have an opportunity to look at it. I purposely looked at that sign. And what did you think? I to me well I hate to say no, but I I don't think it was that bright and then but I could understand where the residents would be concerned. So, did they do you know did they ever lower the the lumens on that sign or I don't know. It didn't seem bright, but I'm going to make a point to go there maybe tonight. And like you learned from listening to me, some people aren't happy if they don't have something to complain about. So, so let's leave it in and let's see how the residents feel about it.

Right. And then also the other the positive point about town homes or whatever potentially could be there would be it would provide more of a buffer to the neighborhood. Yes. Behind it. Yes. And we don't have to worry about something more inclusive. Right. Absolutely. I mean like for example if plastack ever moved I I mean why would we keep that industrial? I I mean that that uh area I mean that's just an example. Yeah. And that area, those folks that live there, Yeah. they're kind of an outlier because that probably should have never been residential, right? They're they're a they're like a peninsula basically when you think about what they're surrounded by.

We heard from those folks when uh Hines Park was putting the parking uh storage place there and I never thought of it that way till I heard those comments. That's true. Is there support for modifying this from neighborhood scale residential to something more like town homes neighborhood scale like you mentioned it's just or just leave it residential. What's what about just just res just have it open cuz who who knows what creative things someone might bring up and we all might think wow that's senior senior building.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah. And it's um and that is also in the next line re talks about again promoting neighborhood scale businesses, local residents. So it's just um I don't know that might be okay. I think Yeah, I think neighborhood scale businesses are I mean that's sort of Plymouth Township's main commercial street. It is. That's I mean that's I mean what else is there? There's five mile. I mean, there just isn't a lot more, right? You know? Okay.

A lot of work has gone into this by a lot of people and I I think it's excellent and it's great to put it out there so that we can get input from different perspectives. Okay. Well, if we're okay with it, is there a motion to uh make the recommendation to the board of trustees? Be before we do that, Dennis, I just wanted to thank Ashley for commenting on the the piece that I wrote up, right, for potentially the modification on paragraph 3 on page 32, right, on the the metrics of success on trees, right? There is a little yellow blur that's in there. It's nowhere near what I wrote,

but uh it it was changed, right? And I'll I'll defer to the planning experts with the verbiage they used, right? um that that is different, it's better, but it it really just brings me right back to what was on page 89 when we get into in 90 and 91 with the exhibit A's, the priority ones. We've got to get teeth in the words in this. So, the board of trustees besides Sandy grasp the fact that our trees have just never gotten the priority they need with what's all these bullet points that are in there. I'm hoping this turns into fines that are excessive to to much higher than than one for 4 inch because it's a non-heritage trees. I'd like to see it, you know, inch for inch on heritage. I'd like to see heritage 4 to one. So, people truly value them and realize that, you know, you're going to take them out, put you want up, but you better be putting more back in. That's what I think our residents are asking for. And I'd love to see that ver verbiage on environmental sustainability on the the A projects. It's not in there. It's it's it's still generic. And if this is the blueprint and the spec, this is our chance to put teeth into it.

Well, you can also put teeth in the processes and procedures followed by our planning department as you discussed earlier to make sure that we don't have the issues that we recently. So, it can be twofold. It's it's really Bill, your recommendations are really well thought out and they're full of detail. They're classic Ford metrics, right, for performance reviews. Y to be honest.

Yeah. But I I think the I think the task here in the master plan is to speak in more generalities, but then the planning commission once this thing gets approved, if it does, we've got to go back to the board and make proposals on how they can actually change the legal wording in our I agree to put the teeth in to make sure it's done right. So, this is just like the very first step. Um the real work is going to be okay. Once we get this approved, then going back to the board on many of these recommendations, not just the trees, it's again it's just a guide to put the teeth in. You have to uh go to the legislative body.

Okay. All right. Any other comments? I'm I am happy with the way it reads now with the corrections we made. Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. Um, I make a motion that the Plymouth Township Planning Commission forwards the master plan 2026 update to the board of trustees for the beginning of the 60-day 63-day public comment. A recommendation for recommendation. Okay. Second.

Okay. Okay. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Gr to uh forward the master plan and recommend forward the master plan to board of trustees recommending approval. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed? Motion carries. Yay.

Now we have the monthly planning report. Any questions on that? Just that I want to say I do appreciate this report. I think it's very comprehensive and it provides a good constant followup to to walk the whole path of every development and I appreciate it the way it's done. Okay. Second. Yep. And now commissioner comments. Anybody has a comment to make? Okay. Want to tell you all what a pleasure it is to work with you.

Thank you. I'm glad you're enjoying your your estate. I am. All right. Les, do we know um uh I've been kind of out of commission the last couple weeks, but the Olivewood development on Ann Arbor Road, northwest corner of Mcclumpa, have we made any progress in getting that building permit signed? No. The on Ann Arbor and Mcclumpa? Yes.

He said, "Yeah." Um they he wanted a meeting with you and and Dennis and we just haven't been able to make that happen and I don't know if we will in time for their I think you only postpone it for six months and that's May. So I don't know it will so we won't give you uh our availability until we hear from you. I if you want to I mean I think we were waiting to see if Tim was going to feel better or pick somebody else to join. Hopefully I will be available again next week. Yeah. So if you guys want to we can try and set it up for next week. I know he's trying to make time to just come when you guys are available. Okay. I'll send you my availability. Okay.

So, what you're sort of saying here is he's not going to do anything until we have that meeting. That was our recommendation. He did say he could do a study session, but we just felt No, I'm just talking about fixing the sign. Oh, the sign. Yeah. Is uh that our code enforcement went out and it should he reached out to them. So, it should be getting fixed if not already.

Yes. I had one suggestion that came from a resident to try to cascade information better to the residents, right? Um I know Chuck has a meeting with HOA presidents, right? It'd be nice to get this mastered plan, okay, to these HOA presidents so they could cascade it to the residents that are in these HOAs. That might not get 100%, but maybe you pick up 66 and 2/3, right? Because we want to get their feedback, right? And you can't rely on email, you can't rely on the website, you can't rely on word of mouth. But my goodness, the HOA presidents I think are probably the best option we may have.

Yes. And in fact, when we did the survey, I sent I sent the link and all that to our HOA president and I actually put it our subdivision as a Facebook uh site and put it on there and I recognized some of the people that commented, you know, thanks and all that and I knew where they were. So, it was beyond just my adjoining neighbors. It was other areas of the subdivision. We actually did the same thing, but if I recall right, there's almost 50 subdivision represented in that group. And Sheila could Sheila has that updated list. She could just for forward that under Chuck's name and I would actually request that she do that. That's an excellent suggestion. And it will also be on the website, correct? Yes.

Yes. Yes. Okay. so that people can go in and look at it and provide their input and and again uh it should be the web link should be on the next uh e newsletter. I think one just came out a few days ago and uh that should be put out there even a special one. You know, sometimes you see the special ones about no trash pickup or whatever it is.

And I'm going to request again because I just went to a conference of Western Wayne meeting and I I looked again at at what all of the representatives are saying regarding the state's proposed house bill. So, I'm going to recommend that perhaps we could do both at the same time and that gives the residents an opportunity to have a better understanding of what's going on. That's right. And somebody did post on Facebook that that was there and I think they were starting a petition or something. So, that word needs to get out. Yes, I agree. Yeah, I think there was an article about it in the Detroit News. There was a couple days ago. Yeah, there was.

That's a good suggestion. But so many people do not know any of this and then when you tell them they immediately are a gasast and say you know what can I do about that? So we need to make sure that they know like I said they have to get to their representatives and and push on it because there's a it's a big lobby that's out there. It is a huge lobby. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments? All right. Is there a motion to adjurnn at 9:10? Yeah, I'd like to make a motion adjourn at 9:10. Second. Moved by Commissioner Iik and supported by Commissioner Pop to adjourn at 9:10. All in favor signify by saying I. I.

I. Opposed. Motion carries. Journey.