City Council - Regular Meeting

It's okay, class of 81, myself, it's all good. Well, we're glad you're here. Jennifer, please forgive me, but I only just met the judge myself.

We are all set.

We're good to go, and Brian's here. No, he's here.

Okay. We're good. We're good.

Okay. We're going to get the show on the road folks. My name is John Darrow. I am the chairman of the board of the city of Binghamton commission on architecture, urban design, and historic preservation calling the August 4th, 4th, 2026 meeting to order. And I'm going to start with the roll call to my left, please. Young lady. Glad you were here.

Joe Schirsch, Commissioner.

Glad you're here. John Petrano, Commissioner. Welcome, new Commissioner.

Brian Haas, Commissioner.

Welcome back, old Commissioner.

Your mic is not on, sorry, George.

George Cummings, Commissioner.

Glad you're here, George. Welcome.

Tessa Michael, Historic Preservation and Neighborhood Planner.

Welcome. We had minutes for April of this year, which we can't approve as I was the only one present that was also present at that time and couldn't vote. Okay. So, we are going to go ahead and I am going to make a proposal with regard to scheduling. Temple Concord, Nine Riverside, you're the first ones up on the schedule. I have to recuse myself from this. There's gonna be some discussion for y'all and I'm gonna put you at the end because we can bang out a lot of business in between. Okay, thank you for your understanding. Okay, so I'm making a motion to reschedule 9 Riverside Drive for the end of today's meeting rather than the beginning of the meeting. Do I have a second?

Second.

Thank you, George. All in favor? You're on the schedule, okay.

One thing, John, do you want to go back and do June 2nd and July 7th minutes? Can we do those?

Did you give them to me? I'm so sorry. Yes, I do. Thank you. I said that once to somebody else. 40 years, a week from tomorrow. Okay, so we have the June 2nd minutes. Joe, you were here for June 2nd. Brian, you were here. I'm here, does that constitute enough to do the vote? Or do we need a?

As long as our new members have read them, my understanding is they can also vote.

Okay. Have we all read the minutes for the June 2nd meeting? Does anyone find any errors or omissions? Finding none, I would make a motion to pass the June 2nd, 2026 minutes for the Codd Commission. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you, George. I'm glad you're here. Got some competition going. All in favor, gentlemen? Thank you very much. June 2nd minutes pass. We have July 7th also to take part in. Anybody see any errors or omissions in the June 7th minutes as presented? Okay, I'm going to make a motion to pass the June 7th, 2026 College Commission minutes as presented. Do I have a second? Thank you, Brian. All in favor? Yes, sir. They pass. Okay, now we'll get down to business here. As soon as I reshuffle my deck. 2527 Court Street, are you present, Representative? Sir, please come on down, we're glad you're here. Make sure your little green light's on and please state your name for the record.

John Korchinski.

Glad you're here, John. I think it's welcome back, isn't it? Yes. Yes. We're glad you're back here. Okay. Staff have findings you wanna present or?

We have had new information from the applicant. Thank you. So this meeting is to look at those revisions, that new information, and see if this can move forward. OK.

if i recall uh this is for the lintels for your windows the sills and tops okay pictures i saw i like quite a bit thank you for that that was no small effort it was very nice give me a minute to phone thumb through my things because i do have it here does anyone have uh questions or comments for the applicant at this time based on providing the information that we did request Boy, we're a chatty lot, aren't we? One second.

Just so I understand the changes correctly, all you plan to do is with these lintels that are shown in the pictures, is just provide these on the bottom windows.

top and bottom of the first floor windows yeah that was Jeff stumbling block right yep

And on the Court Street side, currently on that section of the building, because there's technically three buildings, those have concrete sills and heads. So we'll be matching up the concrete sills and heads with that facade also. Yeah, cool. So it's continuous.

Great.

Okay, I've got it. I think that he has complied with the concerns expressed by Commissioner Smith. I'm happy with it as presented. Are there any questions, comments, concerns at this time? Would anybody like to frame a motion at this time? So moved. So that is a motion to accept the amendment to the applicant as presented, so we can go ahead. I will second the motion. All in favor? Aye. Go make us proud, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir. I don't want everybody to think that I'm usually this disorganized. I'm far more disorganized than I appear today. Just a running kind of day for me today. So 145 Washington Street. Come on down, gentlemen. Please state your name for the record, sir. Say the car. Glad you're here. Do we have staff comments or concerns?

This one, again, is coming back from last meeting. So after being tabled, since we were waiting on some information just to confirm there was no issues with the size of the sign, so now we can move forward since receiving that information.

So we are in good shape to go. I think my wife shuffled my papers. So our concerns previously were for the dimensions above the storefront. We needed clarity on if the door to the second floor constituted a separate business entity. I had conversations with Tito and he informed me that we do have permission from the owner to move forward for full dimensional sign. The sign is compliant within the city's guidelines for signage. Does anyone have comments or concerns at this time? Aesthetics are comments also. Can you show up the sign that he's going to put up please? You got my papers.

John, do we want to discuss the 80% sign rule for the record and so our new commissioners understand as well?

I will let staff do that, if you would. So this is our new sign? Correct. Okay. And we'll get to that in just a second. Anybody have concerns or comments about the sign as presented, which does conform to the city's guidelines? would you give an overview of sign coverage for the new?

I'm gonna pass it to Solon Patel, our city planner, in our handy box. Okay.

I don't know if you heard it. The 80% rule is the applicant can put up up to 80% of the facade. Like they can put up a sign like area that goes up to 80% of the facade that they can cover anything more they will need a variance through the zoning board. But they're allowed up to that many percentage for a wall sign there is.

And that would be in correlation just to the percentage of square footage above the windows and doors. Okay.

Not square footage, but 80% of the width of the storefront.

I think it's, is it square footage or is it the width?

Solon, can you clarify as far as square footage? Square footage or width?

Tito's coming down.

Well, we're always honored to have him here. I saw him hiding up and back. Welcome, sir. Hello. Please identify yourself for the record.

I am Tito Martinez, acting director of the planning department. And the wall sign can be 80% of the width of the facade. Thank you. And this conforms to that rule.

Then I am pleased with the sign as it's come back to us. Any other questions or comments or concerns at this time? Anyone want to make a motion?

Motion.

Please, Joe.

I'll make a motion to pass the request as is.

Okay, so you're gonna make a motion to accept the application as presented for 145 Washington Street for signage. I second your motion. All in favor? Everybody, we're good? Go put up a sign, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, thank you guys. Thank you for your patience. Appreciate it. 134 Water Street. Gentlemen, good to see you again. And as before, please state your name for the record, gentlemen.

Brett Pritchard.

Thank you, sir.

Brian Winters.

Thank you, sir. Do we have an update?

This is also a carryover from last month, and last month was a lot of discussion about design, concerns that the commissioners had. So, again, hopefully can move forward with that information that's been presented by the applicants.

Thank you. At your convenience, gentlemen, when you're ready, the floor is yours.

So I'm addressing some of the initial concerns with the building on the rear side. With their concern, the rear side of the building, they've added canopies now. So the other side, yeah. Yep, so to the right, they've added the canopies over those roofs. That's actually the old design. So what they've done now is moved, there was an overhead door and an entrance door to the left. They've actually removed those and moved those to the other side. Should be another drawing.

Let me pull it up, one moment.

I thought I saw it on email.

That's correct. Yeah. So I've added canopies over the doors to the right to the left, changed and move that overhead door and the man door to the sides. The focus on this side is they, they don't want this to be confused with the main entrance because realistically, the main entrance is on Washington Street. So as much as they want to spruce that up and make it look inviting, at the same time, they want it to be a secondary, you know, means of entrance, they don't want it to be confused with the main entrance.

Your marquee, that'll be a rotating, according to events that are coming up, correct? Okay, and how are you illuminating it?

We're working through the lighting, but we do have some, and I can pass them out, we got some guidance from the architect on some mounted lighting.

As in up lighting? As opposed to backlit, so it would light up onto there? they didn't really like the design of the goosenecks if they if they didn't have to use that so they're looking at other options and the guidance they got was some type of up lighting again which we provide here for you as it's new construction I think you have more options available correct the historic building it's just what we can get away with in the historic district that you know correct give me just a moment And really that uplighting wouldn't be visible for the most part. I think it would be somewhat hidden underneath, especially on that with where the roof is. You really wouldn't even notice that it's there.

So I'm just gonna ask a question. Submitting a sign that's got a bar light which is illuminating the artwork beneath it, you would have this on the bottom illuminating upwards towards the marquee?

Yeah, the intent is to uplight as opposed to downlight it.

As long as I can gain an understanding, I can do most anything. When I can't get that far, I'm in trouble. Anyone have any comments or questions for this side of the building at this time?

This is uplighting of the jinx, correct? Down here? The sign? Okay. What's this under here there? Is that just an underline? Okay.

Okay.

So no internal illumination of the sign at all?

Correct.

Okay.

And I don't know if really that sign would fall more under a sign permit at a different later date, or would that be part of this?

We would be the approval to go for the sign permit, I believe, if I'm correcting that, Tito.

So would that be part of this, or a different meeting down the road?

That would be part of this review, and if they approve the design, then you're okay to get a sign permit, assuming you don't need any variances for the sign.

Perfect.

Okay.

Then I would like to compartmentalize this. I think we could do a section at a time in case we have an issue with another side of the building if something comes up. Does anyone have a problem or concern taking that approach? I'm gonna take silence as an affirmative. I like what they presented for the illumination for the marquee and the redesign of the west facade of the building. That's west, right? Yeah. And barring any other concerns, I'm going to make a motion to approve the lighting, the marquee, and the redesigned west facade of the building at this time. Second on that at all? Second. Thank you, George. All in favor? West side is done. Let's turn a corner. What else we got going on? And I'm doing that if there is a stumbling block, it doesn't stall your whole project, you can push that.

Makes sense.

okay so we took out the overhead door here for your loading is that what's now appearing on the north facade with those stanchion posts in front of it okay so is that an overhead door is it a recess I can't really it's the intent to move it over to the side for logistics and of course for the committee

yes logistically the way the building is set up one of those corners has to be loading so that was the intent yes right

Questions, comments, concerns? Would the dimensions be the same size as the garage door on the west side of the building?

I think it would be slightly smaller. The intent is to use more of a double door at this point in time than the overhead door, just so it's a little more appealing. they're looking for a little bit of feedback as well from the committee just to give us some guidance on you know it's it's tough it is a metal building by design but by function it works really really well for what the intended use is so the the tough piece of that is is how do you blend all that together and still give us some architectural value so um

As we're not relocating the overhead door from the west facade to the north facade, as you're discussing possible double doors or another, I don't think that we could make a approval or a denial because we simply don't have it in front of us. We can certainly discuss what you want to do and push forward a little bit, but without it, we're kind of stymied here, and I'm not trying to stall your project. I just want to do it. Do we have something else going on on east facade or south facade that maybe we can get going for you?

No, really nothing. I don't think there was concerns in the last meeting on the north facade. So it was really just that west side and then, you know, the circulation piece of how we move that around and then the lighting at that point in time. I think they're open to they just need to have as far as the overhead door or the double doors. It's really just a loading area that they need to have. So if there's no opposition to it, obviously the overhead door would be preferred. But a double door, I believe at this point would be acceptable.

Okay. would we so I don't want to stall the project if I don't have to if we had dimensions of the door could we do conditional approval provided they submitted the final drawings overhead or or double doors to us or do we have to just table it until we get it so I'm asking for greater authority than what I

the concern would just be the dimensions in that scenario, then I think that would be fine, because if that's the only thing that needs to be approved, then that would be okay. John?

Yes, sir.

Can we go back to that slide? Absolutely. So I guess my question is, is this, so what's the street of what is,

So really that's a parking lot, because it's really not a through street anymore to Washington Street once the entrance is put in. So I would assume if they brought a band in, the band would have a small van that they would, or a trailer that they would bring in, unload their musical, their musicians, correct. Yeah, yep. And the only parking really, so we have the handicap parking for the events, which is in that parking lot as well. He's got the agreement with Ellis Brothers that, you know they're gonna be able to park over there and then you would have obviously the dumpsters which will be back towards Washington Street so that you know they'll be able to after events to be able to come in and pick up the garbage so it won't be a through street anymore it's really just access to that parking the handicapped and then to load and unload the musicians equipment for an event Right now, it's flush to the face. We put a couple of bollards out there just for protection as well. We've actually, from the last one on the planning board, we pulled those bollards back just a little bit to help with that circulation if somebody does pull through there. So as you can see right now, you have the double row of parking right there. That would actually go away. So that's where your building is gonna be. To your left, there's the white and red car there. yeah that parking would stay that's alice brothers parking and then towards the east side of that correct would be with your handicap parking for for the building correct correct

whether there's a walkway there, you're showing somewhat of a walkway slash landscaping.

Yeah, there is a walkway, so north of those cars to the left that are parked there, there's actually a substantial, I would say it's six to eight feet wide walkway that goes behind what was the old CVS building and then Ellis Brothers. So there's actually a circulation piece that's to that side. And that was one of the concerns in planning board because some of the apartment buildings do use that far left-hand corner as access. That is the only access to some of those apartment buildings. So we work through that with... the owners of the building and then through on planning that they'll be able to circulate and use that and then up against on the east side as well they'll keep a walk path there so most of the pedestrian traffic will be around the perimeter again reminder that this side of the building isn't intended as a main entrance so it's really just for the function of getting you know the equipment in and out is more of a service entrance the overhead door just does function better like you said it doesn't impact you know any walking traffic if there is a sidewalk

it's easier to open the door up you know pull parallel with the building unload off the back and then just move that van or that trailer i would also assume that generally an overhead door does not have a threshold correct and if you got guys bring in uh equipment on a dolly of some sort or whatever maybe a little easier to not have to deal with a threshold.

Correct. That's less of a trip hazard, yeah. And the door on the size, we don't have the exact, I mean, we could determine that today. It wouldn't be the typical garage door, you know, nine foot by seven foot. It would be something much smaller, really, just so they could get larger carts and stuff in and out of there.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I turned it off because you were talking.

If I understood Corporation Council, if we had the dimensions of the door, we could approve the door for you. Do you know the dimensions or did we have it on the application from last month when the door was visible on the screen?

Yeah, I could tell you that it would be set no more than seven foot tall and it would be six foot wide because that would be equal to what a double three outdoor would be.

And that would fulfill our needs. So we'd have dimensions for the door and we could approve an overhead door.

if that's all that's left to approve the dimensions that he just stayed on the record then yeah I would be okay with that

Could I just suggest that Codd decide whether or not they're okay with the overhead door? So the decision would be, assuming you approve, it would be to approve an overhead door in the colors as shown on the rendering, no greater than seven by six, was it?

I understand. Anybody uncomfortable? Have you ever given a sermon and you just know they're all going to somewhere else because they don't respond? Never mind, I'm sorry.

We're with you, John.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that reaffirmation of confidence and faith. I'm inclined to make a motion to approve an overhead door. dimensions being not greater than seven feet high not wider than six feet in width in the color scheme as presented on last month's visual application for the north facade of the proposed 145 Washington Street jinx project amendments additions 134 water I'm sorry 134 water one oh oh yes I'm sorry 134 Water Street excuse me that's a good amendment Second?

Second.

Thank you, George. All in favor? We are good. Gentlemen, go build us a music menu. Appreciate you coming back and your patience. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay, let's get ourselves a little more organized than we are. Okay, this is going to be for land bank now.

No, the utility boxes.

Oh, oh, oh, excuse me. Various downtown locations. Department of Public Art, are you here, sir? I am. Come on down. Good to see you. Glad you're here. Hope you're enjoying one of the few sunny days we get in Binghamton. Please state your name for the record. Mark Brown. Mark, we're glad you're here. Always a pleasure, sir. Let me find my pictures of cats.

Now it is, sorry. Mark Bauer, sorry.

Thank you, Mark.

A much lighter green there when I looked at that.

I'm looking for my pictures. I had them. My wife helped me pack my bag just as I was running out the door and she even asked me questions about it.

I have a handout if you need one.

Yeah, we can throw it up here. Do we have a staff report? I'm not gonna. It'll be the top thing when I look for it again.

No worries. So the Department of Public Art is the applicant, and they are proposing to paint 10 utility boxes in downtown Binghamton with newly created public art. for the overview of this project. So the DPA oversaw a call for artists and received 23 design proposals, and then of the 23, they narrowed down to 10 for us to look at consideration. The proposed designs are intended to add a splash of color in the downtown Binghamton area, similar to many of the murals in the area. The approval of the project itself with these 10 utility boxes to be painted and those proposed locations, they have been pre-approved by the city. Several of the utility boxes are located in historic districts, and those include the Court Street, Local, State, and National Historic District, the Local, State, and National State and Henry Streets. State and National State and Henry streets expansion as well and the state and or the National Main Street Historic District Anything you would like to add sir

Only that we did a project similar to this in Johnson City a couple years ago, and the Department of Public Art has been doing small murals throughout the city for quite a while. We were founded in 2012. We did two projects in the city last year on Southside Commons, if you've seen the murals that are in Southside Commons. There's one there for taking selfies and one, we did a relief mural that was designed and then painted for the Hannigan's Heroes Vietnam Memorial over there. So we have a good track record. We've been here for a long time. I'd like to think we influenced the Broome County Arts Council when they did the iDistrict murals to get the really big splashes of color. But a lot of cities have done this. It just adds a point of interest. Downtown, you come around a corner and you see a splash of public art. And we've also been working to develop a cadre of local artists. And as was mentioned, we had 23 people respond to our call for artists. And then staff at the Department of Public Art came up with these 10. And as also was mentioned, we reached out to the city before we even applied. for the funding for this. It's a small project, $4,000. We have 10 artists. We're gonna pay them each $400. They'll provide their own paint. Was through the New York State Council of Arts, their regrants program that they do through the Earlville Opera House. They take New York State money and they provide a mechanism for getting money out to local artists in their jurisdiction, which I think is six or eight counties. So I'm hoping you'll approve this. We also coordinated with DPW. They provided some guidance on where you can paint, where you can't paint, don't paint over locks and different things like that. So we have had some experience with this. and we think it's gonna be a great project, so hopefully you'll look favorably on it. It's something we're excited about getting it done, and we have, I think half of the artists are new this year, so we've been drawing more local artists to the projects that we've been doing, so. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Thank you, sir. I like the majority of the pictures that you presented. I think they're pretty cool. I think relax and breathe right now is very important for so many people that aren't for a variety of causes. Love the carousel horses. Really like the balloon.

It's like one of our founders said that when people see public art, they think creative people live here. So that's certainly true for our area.

My only piece of constructive criticism might be with regard to the cats. If you have a cat and you don't have a dog, you're just going to cause some hardship. I like both, and we've had both in our house at the same time, but many people are entrenched in the dog camp or the cat camp, so if you could incorporate a dog with the cat,

one of the one of the comments we got from Earlville was was the city of Binghamton gonna support some of this financially so next time we do this we'll reach out to the city for some funding and we can balance the art and make sure we get some dogs in the next one there's a lot of these boxes around the city just leave your contact info so we can you know send the dog people to you

Yes, sir. I'm sorry.

So, Mark, what's running through my little head is I'm remembering back when we had cows and other animals that were sponsored by various operations here. So when I look at some of what you're doing here, what I'm thinking about is these boxes in relationship to either a restaurant or a business that's here in town I'm wondering if there might be a program to reach out to them to say hey if it's not a lot of money you know if we're talking 500 bucks 750 bucks to do one of these paint would it be of any curiosity to reach out to some of our local operations as an advertisement slash Paint a utility box that's outside your building or within a hundred feet of your building So that not only are we getting art, but we're also paying for it, and we're getting these operations advertised meaning that some of our restaurants and other local businesses are participating and being part of this art coloration is what's running through my head.

Well, we're always looking for revenue streams, so I'll definitely take that back to the Department of Public Art and look at it as a suggestion for our upcoming year. I mean, we've been doing projects every year since 2012, so.

Because I know that back when they did Snoopy animals and whatnot, they were sponsored by companies, my recollection. And when the program was over, they had the opportunity to... Because you can still go in some local businesses, and there's the animal that they paid for in their lobby kind of deal. So...

now you can't take the utility boxes back but right and one of the things that comes up is people are concerned about you know these things getting tagged or damaged or whatever but we had some of that happen over on the south side in south side commons and since we live here and we're around here we went back and fixed it you know some of the things were tagged and we went back and just painted over it and We'll continue to do that. But one of the things we found in the past, and this wasn't necessarily an example of that, is in years past, we've done what we call mural fest, where we actually go into a neighborhood like a Sherry Linder or Floralab Park in Johnson City and engage the neighborhood. And the ideas come from the people in the neighborhood. And then we get artists to execute what their vision of their park was, or what they wanted to see there. We did the Lee Barta Center a couple of summers ago, and it came out great. And everything on that building was something that the people in the neighborhood wrote down on a flip chart that they might want to see in a mural. So that's part of our goal, is to engage neighborhoods, engage the people. just get artists to execute what they want to see the neighbors there so we're committed to that and thanks for the suggestion about looking for other revenue

And I believe I heard an impressed or implied warranty for that, which I always like in case something happens.

The idea of public art is that you know something's going to happen to it over time, just fading or whatever. People tear down buildings, you know, whatever. So that's inherent in our work.

Understand. Thank you. Questions, comments? Anybody like to take a stab at a motion?

I have some questions. So I'm working on the liability waiver for the artists and for the Department of Public Art. I see that you are listed in the application as the tenant. Who would be the owner or the proper signatory for the Department of Public Art?

Well, the utility boxes are owned by the city.

I understand that. It would be a contract that would be signed by the Department of Public Art, the individual artists. So we would have one for each artist with the city and the Department of Public Art signing. So we'll have 10 of these. Okay. So I'm just wondering who the signatory would be for the Department of Public Art. Who would be the owner?

I guess I could be the signature for the Department of Public Art.

Okay, you have authority to sign contracts on their behalf.

Yes, I'm the treasurer. I'm currently the treasurer, so I sign all the financial documents, duty taxes, things like that. So I could sign off as a representative of the Department of Public Art on all of those.

I already know the answer to my next question but I just want to ask to be sure so I see that in the application all ten of the artists were submitted as part of your application so I assume the Department of Public Art is responsible for coordinating this on behalf of all the artists and

absolutely we just just last week we had a meet-and-greet because some of the artists were new at the Broome County Arts Council and we brought all ten of the artists together talked about the process we got Lowe's to donate paint so for priming the boxes we got their paint we're all gonna operate out of the Broome County Arts Council for right now so we've already coordinated that and once we get approval it'll be up to each one of them to get out and get their work done and we'll support them in that endeavor

okay I just want to make sure that I have the proper layout for the template that I've been working on and then my other question that is not only directed to you but also to the commissioners here have there been any discussions about a proposed start date and a proposed end date

Our goal from the Department of Public Art is once we had approval, people would begin work. So we're looking at getting all of this work done in the next couple of months at the latest. I mean, for our grant, we have a year to complete the project. for the grant what i'm sorry for the grant with the money that we got from niska through the earlville um we have one year to complete the project okay from the time we received the money which was a month and a half ago but our goal is obviously the cold weather is going to be coming so we're hoping to get people out here as soon as this approval is a reality we would anticipate the work getting done over the next month and a half

Okay. Does that work for COD commissioners?

The grant dates would be a definitive beginning and ending date.

I'm just wondering if COD is expecting an earlier date that they would like to see it completed or if they are indifferent and if we can fall back on the grant date.

I think we'd like it completed before winter sets in November 1st.

Okay. Is everyone okay with November 1st?

Would a November 1st deadline be appropriate for you, sir?

Yeah, I'm sure we could meet that, yeah. Works for me, yeah. Okay.

Anyone wanna frame a motion?

Sure.

Thank you, George.

So I put a motion to this august group that we approve this request for the doing painting of utility boxes, 10 of them, within the city limits by the Broome County Arts Council.

having a completion date of November 1st.

By November 1st.

Yes, thank you. 2026. Okay, I will second that motion. All in favor? Aye.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it, and hopefully soon you'll be seeing some splashes of art in downtown Binghamton. Make the town a pretty place, sir.

Thank you.

My department will be in touch regarding the contract.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay, thank you, sir.

Okay, 47 Court. 47 Court, come on down. Just state your name for the record. Welcome, glad you're here.

Hello, this is Typhon Butchekji.

And we are here for our signage. Yes. Okay, staff report.

So the applicant is proposing to install two new storefront signs, which will be mounted above the main entrance on the front facade of the building and on the east facade. The signs will be made of a background color being black and then white and red lettering. I do want to point out and for discussion, there were discrepancies between what was listed in the application and then the design. So we'll need to clarify the colors and the dimensions. And as well, and I'll scroll down to the photos for existing conditions, there are a couple window signs that have been installed. So we do need to discuss those as far as approval for those as well.

Do the proposed signs conform to the city's dimensions?

The proposed facade signs, correct.

Okay. Yes, they do. Okay, cool.

If they are, I'm sorry, for 23 by 4 would, not 24 by 4.

Okay. So you're going to have to adjust your dimension on the one.

Yes, but just signs before that one, all of them was, I know the picture doesn't look great, but there was 25 by 4. No, that's why we did 24 by four by just for safe side, but the previous PJ plus was also 24 by 25 by four before the midnight also was 25 by four.

That's fine, but you have to adjust it. Because that's a wrong sign, you can't get to keep the wrong sign.

But we do 23 by four then.

Okay, that's fine. So we have to make sure that the dimensions conform. You're looking to Istanbul on both front and side facade? Okay. Does the phone number constitute signage? As I understand it does.

Solon do you have a comment on that if the phone number as we can see on the the side here does that count as the you know towards the sign dimensions

Is it on the window itself, or is it on the, like, the wall?

It's supposed to be in a phrase above the window.

It's above the window in the frame, or was there already an existing sign from previous, like, forms?

That would not count part of the sign being presented today, but it would need some sort of a permit. Okay. Okay. Through the zoning officer. Sure.

And then do we have a picture of the window signs that are there? Okay, those, okay, so that's a peel and stick.

Will you clarify if they're peel and stick, et cetera, any other details?

There's no, by the way, windows on there, just temporary. There's a restroom there. When you bought it, it was a belled-up restroom there. We just put temporary, like, paper off-lit just to cover up the white page and open the store for the business, because nobody knows the pizza place over there.

That's coming down. It's going to come off. Okay. Okay. I believe you're only allowed half of the window if you're going forward to do a...

It's not a window, by the way. It's a restroom there. It's the window if you see it on the right side. Can you go previous picture, please?

So that's a wall.

It's a wall.

It just kind of looks like a window from the outside. Yeah. Okay. So if you want to go ahead with window signing, it has to be half or your phone number down in there. you have maximum half the window that you can utilize, okay?

Okay, but it's gonna come off. Yeah, for the forward feature maybe, but right now it's gonna come off, we just put her up for, at least the people know what it's a business for, you know? Gotcha. Thank you.

Okay, questions, comments, concerns?

Could they move the phone number to the front window, as opposed to the side of the building?

I'm not gonna cut you off, but I am, we're not gonna address the phone number yet, we're just going for the big sign, then we're gonna talk about phone numbers.

No concerns about the signs, as long as the specs all meet up.

Okay, and the application is to place Istanbul in the front of the building and to the side of the building, and you are going to conform to the dimensions that you were made aware of today. I like your sign. I think it's nice. I think it's simple. It's a very nice sign. Thank you so much. I would make a motion to approve the signs as presented for the east and the south facade of the building, noting that they will be conforming to the city of Binghamton's guidelines on signage. Do I have a second?

Second.

Thank you.

All in favor?

You got your sign.

Thank you so much. Now we're gonna talk about phone number for a minute. The phone number does constitute a sign, okay?

No.

Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so if you are going to keep the phone number or you wanna put a website up, you have to make an application to come before us to get that approved.

If I take that off and put on my sign, is that okay?

You can do that, but you have to submit it to us. We're approving the signs as presented. Oh, okay, got you. I can't approve what I don't see. Okay, I will do for the number after. Okay, that would be fine. But just come back, even if you did something for a window. Sure. There's lots of options, but right now the phone number's kind of got 86 itself. Okay, thank you very much. Then we are all good here. We have an understanding. Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you so much.

I hope you do very well. Next time, bring free food.

No, you guys can come over.

Baclavon espresso, yes. Okay, we're going to get on anything else. We don't have any old business. We have new business. We've taken care of everything. We're going to get on to 9 Riverside Drive. I'm going to make a comment before I recuse myself. John, you coming down? No, okay. And we had that one brought in special form. Glenn, I guess you're on your own for this one. Okay, I want to speak for a quick second about no trespassing and about private property. And this comes from personal knowledge in the city of Binghamton. We were having trespassers at one of my properties, and I said to the police, arrest them. He says, well, it's not posted. And I said, well, okay, fine. So I went down to Kovara because I bought a private property sign. They were back again because they were after something. He said, it's still not posted. He said, yes, it's private property. but you haven't posted for no trespassing, as such they could not perform an arrest because they weren't violating. That's what the no trespassing private property comes down to, and that was just 2018 that I ran into on Chestnut Street, and I want to do it. So I have to recuse myself, but prior to that I have to, we have to appoint an interim chairman. Brian, you're the longest tenured person here. And so I'm going to make a comment and then I'm going to make the motion both myself being out of here and then our actual vice chair is not here as he's on vacation. We have two people that this is their very first sitting in for Cod and Joe, you've been here twice, three times. OK, you may just consider possibly tabling it going forward if you're uncomfortable as you proceed okay that's got it if you're comfortable do what you want um so i have to make a motion to appoint brian haas as the interim chairman for the city of bing pin's cod commission at this time do i have a second second thank you all in favor You're there. Just remember to unappoint yourself at the end. As I cannot take part in this because I'm on the board of directors for the Friends of Kilmer Mansion, I have to recuse myself, which, oh, motion to recuse myself. Second, somebody? Second. Thanks, I'm out of here. And I can't take part in the discussion. Best of luck, I'm leaving. I'm gonna enjoy the day. If you'd like to feel the weight of power.

That's OK. This chair works. All right. Would you like to introduce the project to us, sir?

Sure, first I'll just give you my name. It's Glenn Thomas, as you see on the presentation. So looks like some of you don't have all the background. The facility on Nine Riverside Drive is two buildings. It's a synagogue and then Kilmer Mansion. They're physically connected. Okay, so I assume everybody knows that. We've had a lot of instances of say, unquestionable things happening at the facility, and it's continuing to get worse. So we've done a lot of improvements, of which Codd has approved. We've added security film to the windows. We've added cameras. We've added perimeter lighting to make the building more secure. and we're working on new things. And one of the items that our attorney recommended and our security professional recommended was to put private property signs. Private property signs by themselves will keep an honest person out, but they won't keep somebody who's bent on a bad actor of some sort. But it will sufficiently help with a legal requirement in the court of law. okay so that's our motivation we have no illusions that oh the signs are up now we're safe that's that's not where we're going okay um but it is prudent and then if if we run into a circumstance where someone approaches the building and they want to enter and we say sorry you can't enter we're on a little firmer ground having that sign in an obvious position right okay so our request was to put private property signs and that was what our attorney recommended was private property on all of the entrances to the building. And we wanted to make it as simple as possible. You're walking in the door, there's the sign. So no one could say, I didn't see the sign over here, I didn't see the sign over there. With that said, we weren't sure what the position of Codd was. I did a little homework, and I actually had talked to Greg Buell, the zoning officer, and his original comments to me were, there aren't any city requirements for a no trespassing sign or a private property sign. He said, so it would default to the state. So we use something for our main building. which meets the state requirements, which is basically the number of square inches that the verbiage takes up, 81 square inches to be precise. And we place that on all of the doors, the entrances to our main building. Now we wanna do the same thing with the mansion. So that's what we're asking. So our original intention was, can we just do something as simple as a private property sign, and we could change the background, the wording somewhat, or the font, whatever. It'd be nice if it was all the same, because it's the same building. That's not a final requirement. So that's kind of where we're at. But we put in a couple other options because we weren't sure what you would like. I didn't want to come to the table and say, well, that option's no good. So we put in what we could think of as far as other options. Um, so that's my short version. I mean, there's a lot more details in there. I think Tessa came back and said, okay, what are the exact locations? I originally focused on the Riverside drive because I figured that was really the only door you're going to see if you're driving by the other built other doors or entrances. or on other floors or they're in the back or the side of the building, which you could see if you walked onto the property. So I didn't focus on that originally, but I have given you a complete pictures that show you where all of the signs would be located. okay now there was some question about could we put stickers on or decals i think was the right word could we put them on some of the windows and i think i addressed that in it i will note that the riverside drive entrance is a wooden door with no window that would be acceptable for a sign so it's going to either be on the door or on the uh the wall you know the outer wall next to that right okay our personal preference is we don't really want to put metal signs on the on the side of the building i don't really want to drill into the even if it i only drill into the mortar we'll do that if necessary we were looking at something quick and simple a private property no trespassing sign on the door All right, that way no one can say, gee, I missed the sign, or I didn't understand it, we couldn't get in, okay? To John's point about it being no trespassing, I don't think we really have that much of a preference. We just want to put a sign up, get the job done. So sorry if I gave you too much background, but I figure it's better because there's a lot here. I will make another comment that I didn't realize before, but my discussions with Greg in my initial dialogue to him, he responded that for these signs, we would waive the need for CAUD approval. Well, I asked him for clarification, never got it, and my instincts were, nah, I'm going to go and ask for your approval, and I'm going to ask for your advice on this, because I respect the authority of this council and felt it was better, and I didn't want someone to drive by sometime and say, well, you didn't talk to us about that. That didn't seem right to me. So now you have all the information I have. Obviously, if you've got questions, concerns, please let me know.

Sure, so on the fourth page, it looks like there's two signs. One is the black background with gold lettering and then of course the orange sign with black lettering. Do you intend to use one or the other or both?

So what I'm giving you here are options that we could use. And it could be something different, but I didn't want to just give you nothing. I just wanted to say, so if you see, I think there's a chart on page three that shows you all the options. It's got the black print on brass plate, black print on brass plate, and there's two different ways to use those. And there's black print on rust background, which was this thing right here.

So you're proposing what we might term stock labels, is that correct?

Yes, we're not opposed to doing something special, but what would that be, what would we need to do?

Well, okay, so here would be my thought. You've got a facility, a very, very historic facility that dates back to X. 1898 it's been there a while yep okay so first thing i would do is research the print style 1898 or i might look at other kilmer documents as to print style and try to replicate signage that period to represent the facility that was built in 1898 Now that's just simply because I'm a history idiot. So I manage the Kilmer Building downtown Binghamton, so I have a similar curiosity to 1905, which is when that was built. Same era. Right, right, right. So that would be what runs through my little head is because of the nature of this facility, a wonderful historic facility, anything in it, in my opinion, would reflect roughly that period as best as possible. So that's the only thought that runs through my head.

Well, that was my intention when I said it doesn't have to look exactly like this. We can figure out what the right background, the right font is. I'm not sure we found anything that indicates what a private property or a no trespassing sign would be in that era. I did a look, but I'm not going to tell you I did an exhaustive look.

That's what Google exists for.

Sure.

You might also have a wonderful resource, that fine gentleman right over there that has a, manages a facility, similar time period, may have the exact, his mind is probably working right now because he might need the same kind of signage in his facility because of the concern. have the same thoughts for the owner of the Kilmer building downtown Binghamton because we all are faced with these kind of issues and how to manage them properly and and yeah we got people wandering our facilities anymore that shouldn't be doing that right so how do we so I'm learning something today through all this

Other questions, comments? I mean, certainly if someone has a suggestion on the sign, we'll take a look at it. I mean, just because we wrote this up doesn't mean it has to be that way, right? So that was one of the reasons that I came here. I want it to be acceptable. And I also, I mean, it's a good point. I hadn't thought about the fact that there may be others that are with the same type of problem.

I do agree with George's point, having something more historically appropriate to the building. It would be aesthetically nice given the age and architecture of the building. Like the first sign here does appear to be a little bit nicer. It may not be the appropriate font from 1898, but a little bit nicer than the orange background. I think this would really stick out like a sore thumb, like a warning label on the back of a product, which

so in a way is what it is a warning label but it just wouldn't look very good so so just to be clear though this private property sign you that you mentioned you like a little better that's the one that costs fifty dollars each um and those are the ones you either stick in the ground which we will not do because they won't be there more than a week right um but that would be attached to the side of the building. That's what that is. I suppose we could attach those to the door, but now we're looking at something a lot more hefty. We're trying to make the minimal impact on the building, and that's why we're opposed to these metal private property signs. If we have to, we will, but I don't like the idea of drilling into the mortar.

Well, I don't know that we're suggesting that sign as much as we just like the look and feel of that better. Personally, I think that there's a bit more research that could be done by your team. I know John would volunteer in a heartbeat to do that research for you, by the way, because he has a house that's of that vintage. So he might...

Well, you were invited way back when, and now all of a sudden you're, so we might have to vote on this, but... Yeah, I can, I mean, you know, I work at the Phelps Mansion, so I can understand where you're coming from, because we face the same challenges every day with people who just kind of linger around, you know, the grounds of the museum for whatever reason, whether it's malintent or just because they have no place else to go, but... And to their point, I mean, if we were going to approve something, I would definitely look towards more of the look of the top sign as opposed to something that's taped to the windows or the walls or the doors. I understand, too, with the stakes. I mean, I get it. Because initially I said, why couldn't you just put stakes in the front by the front steps? But I, too, know that if they're not tied down, they won't be there more than a week. So I can appreciate the challenges that you guys are facing. I know you have security cameras around the building that you just recently put in, which we do, too. My only concern would be the number of signage. I feel like if there's too many signs, Like at what point is it overkill or will it start to take away from the historic nature of the Kilmer mansion?

And I understand and appreciate that. Unfortunately, there are 10 doors and I know what'll happen if I put signs on nine of them. Somebody's gonna go in number 10. It doesn't do what we're saying. Let me just add a little more detail about your comment about the people loitering around. Certainly that's the case. In the time period that we've had the cameras up, we've noticed a lot of things that we Probably should have noticed before and it's causes to pay attention, but but let me give you even a little more detail Okay earlier in May earlier this year in May I submitted a foil request to the Binghamton police to get some background on how much time they spend At our facility and I did that because we're applying for we applied for another New York State grant to get additional money All right. Well what I found out from that was Binghamton police do random you know, searches or checks on various buildings in the area, okay? So I asked specifically what they did for 9 Riverside Drive. And this is unsolicited checks. And a check means a police officer comes by the building, exits their car, Goes around the building checks all the doors and windows for anything that was looks wrong. Okay in 2024 they did that three times for nine riverside drive last year. They did that 24 times This year as of May 24th, they've done it 76 times Wow every other day on average All right, so it's like this Okay, now I don't know what their motivation is, and we haven't called them to ask that, but we're darn happy they're doing that. All right, so that's kind of where we're at. But as I said before, we have no illusions that putting the sign up, oh, all's good. It's not. It's part of the overall scheme. Okay, but that's off track, all right? Welcome any input on what the science should look like. I'll try to do some investigation as to something that's a little more appropriate. We've tried to do that, and John, did you want to make some comments?

Okay, my name is Jonathan Bergman and I'm on the security committee with Glenn at Temple Concord. Previously, we came to Codd and we received approval prior to putting the light poles that we have out front and at that time, knowing the historic prominence of our building downtown we did investigate period compliant polls which would have quadrupled the cost and blown the grant so cod was generous with us and approved the polls that we ultimately have installed so we have that awareness And this sign here is part of a response to that awareness. My question for you is, in the front of the building, which is obviously forward facing to the community, would we be permitted, if we go forward with this, to put one presentation of the sign and in other doors and access points that are not so prominent to pedestrians and passersby perhaps another presentation of the sign so it wouldn't they would not be uniform throughout but the forward-facing signs would be more period-appropriate it would certainly save us some some anxiety as to you know mounting the signs in different locations because some have to be mounted one way some the other way so i would just ask if if a combination of signs saying the same thing basically uh would be acceptable as well yes at the end of the day it's your facility

Number one, but number two, it's a community location. What's important to us is that it maintains that historic feel as much as possible.

Understood.

But we don't want to throw you cats into a situation where you've got to go back and get additional money. So I personally would certainly say that your main entrances should stay historically accurate as best as possible, but Entrances, egress on the backside or whatever can be just your standard signage so that you maintain cost effectively. Great, thank you. That's my opinion.

I would agree with that as well. Any sign that's visible from the street or to the public, we definitely want historically accurate or appropriate.

That's that one there, that's it.

Just that door only?

That's the only door you could see from the street. That's why... Sorry, that's why my original proposal didn't name the others. But if you look at the other, there's 10 of them total. They're on the side. They're on the second and third floor in the back. So it's a lot. You don't see them from the street. Right. And we are very cognizant of that. We want to maintain the authenticity of the era as much as we can.

However, I might add to that. you're still intending to have various events on the side, the east side porch, is that correct?

Correct, correct, it's still available for that.

So I would consider those entrances to be kept historically accurate also.

So those doors are not, they've been modified significantly since that time period, okay? And that's not, you can't see that from the street.

No, no, I appreciate that, but you could have public, on the porch for an event. Oh, absolutely.

We could have public throughout the whole building and they're gonna come in through the front door too, yes. And they could be in the back in the garden area.

Again, we're not here to dictate, in my opinion. But I just wanted to show you the sensitivity. I understand. I would go back and figure out what are the truly important historic, Doors to be considered.

Okay. Okay. So there's one other minor item that I put in here one of the other items that that we have implemented in our main building was We keep the doors closed and locked and we don't open those doors until we know who is approaching the door so we want to do the same thing with the mansion and in order to facilitate that in our main building we have a an intercom that we use and so i think on the second page of this i put down that we would like to add an intercom to this front door to facilitate that okay um so it's a small box it's about this size on the outside and i show a picture of it right there yep so that's the only way we can think of i mean theoretically if you see that main door if you're inside the door looking out you can look to the right and there is a window you can look at but it has this it's not very wide and it has the metal framing to it that precludes adding any kind of sticker or anything to it. So you could at least see somebody, but when you're greeting somebody, you wanna be able to talk to them. Especially when the weather is bad and it's blowing and there isn't as much cover there as there is on the other building. So that's the other small part of that.

Is the front door of the mansion original as it is? As far as I know, I don't think any of that's been changed.

There is some work. You see the arrow that's listed there? Right underneath the back part of the arrow, there's a front porch. That's all missing. It's dug down and it needs to be renovated, but only part of the work was done. The old stuff was torn out. But I believe the rest of it is all original. There may be some windows that were replaced or something like that, because I know one of them is I'm sure they didn't have plexiglass in 1898, so.

So would the thought be for the nice private property or no trespassing sign, would that go on the door as opposed to on the building, like in the mortar? Would you put that sign right on the door?

so so our preference like i say is to put them on the on the door so no one can say otherwise okay um if if the only choice ends up being have to put it on the side of the building then we're going to have to just you know determine okay where does it make sense and where can we drill etc etc so it's going to determine be individual for each one you can see these windows here those are the east porch Windows, they're actually doors. Those doors are not the original doors, but the area was renovated and they tried to replicate as much as they could, so.

If you were to use the metal signs on the lower levels, including near doors like that, obviously it would be hard to put them on the doors there because of the way that they're situated with the majority of being glass. So my guess would be that the sign would go to the right of the door or something close by, actually in the mortar.

If you're going to mount one, it's going to be probably to the left or to the right, depending, or maybe just one in the center. I don't know. We haven't figured that out. But my gut reaction is to put one for each door. But then when I look at this, I'm going, well, maybe I can get away with just having one here. I mean, the other option is to put a private property sign on each of the double doors, okay? And I don't know if you caught the subtlety here, but we are planning to add the security film to those windows. That's on the inside of the windows. I can't place anything on that film once it's applied, so it would have to be on the outside. But there's no weather that gets here, so I'm not worried about the sign. It's more a matter of is it appropriate. Sorry for all the subtleties here. It's a challenging situation for sure.

I feel like signs on the windows probably would not be as visually appealing for the historic nature of the building, but that's just me.

Yeah, I agree. I like the idea of a metal sign with era-appropriate text mounted into the mortar next to the door. Sounds like that's what you were thinking as well, Joe.

I'm truthfully wondering that we have what it takes to make a decision today. I personally would rather they do a little bit more research on signage for certain doors, public facing doors, and then come back with exactly that and where they're gonna be put. Because we're sitting here making some assumptions about signage on various doors. It may be to this side, it may be to that, it may be a metal side attached. I don't think we're hitting this nail on the head here.

Yeah, it might be best to come back with like, exactly if you could superimpose like, this sign on the building where it's going to be so we can actually visualize like, what it's going to look like all around the building that might be helpful.

Number one. Number two, if we go back to that east side view right there, you mentioned whether or not you have to have a sign on both doors. In my view, that's back to the police to say, okay, Mr. and Mrs. Policeman, what's legitimate here? is that, do the police, will they agree that that is coverage, or do the police require boom and boom? Because that's gonna have an impact on what you end up doing. Because from my perspective, I used to look at this and say, okay, you know, private property, no trespassing. I don't know if that's gonna do the trick as far as the police's position, if somebody were to come through these doors Questions in my mind. And I don't mean to drag this thing out another month, but.

Yeah, so I think our original intent was to give options and find out if you would approve some or all the options. And I can see where you're leaning one way or the other. So I'm not, and that's okay, but we also have another part of this dilemma, which is kind of why John had to recuse himself, and that is we have a tenant in that building, and I wanted to be able to give the option to the tenant to say, these are the things that we could do. Sure. All right, because we want them to have some say in it as well. So I'm kind of doing two things, and then the third part of it is, It's not my decision, it's not John's decision. We have to go to our board and say, well, okay, we're gonna do this. Now, they're probably gonna do whatever we say unless we tell them, okay, it's a 40-foot sign on the side of each building, which we're obviously not gonna do, right? So within reason, they're gonna do it. But I think what I'm hearing here is, you're leaning toward the more expensive, the more period appropriate signs, and you'd like to see a little more detail. And we can work with that, but I didn't want to go down this path when you wanted to go down that path.

Correct, yeah, we're gonna wanna see which signs exactly go into which locations, if there's gonna be two different signs, and then more research and effort put into the final sign that's going to be used rather than just sign options and period appropriateness, of course. So I think with all that being said, would somebody like to make a motion to?

May I make a comment as well? Sure. the oval black metal sign with the brass font on it, something I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Glenn, pulled from a catalog where we researched this, to find a private property in a font that was common in 1898, might be very difficult or very expensive. Understanding the aesthetics of this compared to the aesthetics of an eight and a half by 11 printed sign, there's a big difference there. But finding that in a different font may not be an easy task at all.

And you're right about that. That wasn't my thought. My thought was that for an awful lot less than that metal sign, stick with 8 1⁄2 by 11, but just research the color and the font in 1898. You know, we're certainly not throwing you gentlemen towards an expense as much as we're throwing you towards...

I'm sorry, I misunderstood that. Thank you.

That's fine. Like, okay, so there you go. That's kind of...

our first pass at that. I'm not saying that is the right font or the right background.

No, but that's the right avenue.

If you guys are okay with that, that's why we're showing some of these things.

Well, that's why we're back to looking, having you come back with something of that nature and where it would be placed. And I'll tell you, in my view, We're somewhat talking a precedent here, because you've got another facility. You've got Roberson. You've got the other Jewish synagogue right up the street. They've gotta have the same problem. Now, not the historical piece, but they still got the same issue of private property, no trespassing. So I'd even be inclined to say to you folks, you might want to reach out to Roberson and to the Phelps Mansion to say, hey, what have they done? And I even think that this is a comment back to the police to say to the police department, you've got these historic locations in our community.

and how do we have a concerted effort to protect all of them it's in our best interest as a community to do this good point so let me address part of that i actually did drive around to all of the historical buildings here looking to take a picture of a private property or sign the only one that i found was the one up on the hill that has the fence all around it Okay, right none of the others had any signs or in any signs they had was very limited Yep, which I assume is for good reason. Okay, so I couldn't find anything That was here, but I understand your point about precedent secondly BPD as far as their or Binghamton police We have on a somewhat regular basis, although it's increasing have them and I've had this conversation with Binghamton police and basically they're Hands off. Oh, I understand. I'm not going to tell you having a sign here or having it say that. No, no, no. That's why they sent me to the zoning board.

Right.

And that's why I went there. Okay. And then now thirdly, to talk about some of the other synagogues in the area. And we do communicate with them. Okay. We have a lot of discussions. But The other approach, other synagogues approach are higher BPD, higher BPD. We're trying to do a mix to help ourselves and then higher BPD on what I'll call high volume time.

Right, right, understood.

But we may have to change that, okay? So, but you're right, it's good to have this discussion to see what, because just because it's a Jewish facility doesn't mean that other facilities don't have similar issues.

I would suggest that there's all sorts of similar issues in town.

All right, so I think maybe my net now is, I'm gonna take a look and see if we can try some more, different fonts, different backgrounds, see what we can find. If anybody has anything that they run across, don't be shy. Tessa knows how to get ahold of me. I've sent her multiple emails. She's probably tired of hearing from me, but she's been very polite about the whole thing. But I suspected this would be a conversation rather than, and that's why I didn't take Greg Buell's original advice about, oh, we don't need cognitive problem. Something in the back of my mind said, no, we have to discuss this. Okay. But I think I made all my points. I think we're pretty much in sync. I would have loved to have gone away and said, oh, it's all solved. I really didn't expect that. Okay.

Well, we're glad we didn't disappoint.

No, no, no, no, no.

We'll see you again.

Yeah, I guess the intercom would be nice to have. Do we want to hold off on the intercom thing, too, if we're just going to, I don't know, like, I mean, like, the intercom as it is right now probably would look really out of place by the front door of the Kilmer Mansion, but I don't know that you could even find anything that would be historically appropriate that would look like an old intercom that would not cost a fortune to do, so, yeah.

Yeah, I think that's gonna be one of those things that just needs to remain discreet, but not historically appropriate because you're not gonna find that.

So we would rather do without it, but I can tell you from experience with our other building, we use it. Yeah, I understand. and we may try it without it for a while but I figured while I was here I wanted to get the most of the discussion and that was the other item that I figured might be a lever we want to pull in the near future but our first objective is to try keeping the door closed and just looking around and seeing oh I know so-and-so It's the people that we don't know or the obvious people coming down the street that have bad intentions in mind. That's the reason for closing the door.

Right. The other thing with intercoms is you only get a voice so you may not necessarily know who really is there if they say they are who they are. Have you considered a peephole or anything in the door to be able to actually look through with some more clarity?

It was the other alternative that I didn't list it on here because I didn't feel like I needed to get approval for a peephole. The problem with a peephole is if you're standing around in front of that peephole asking someone that wants to come in, maybe not the best idea.

okay sorry to be blunt but that's kind of our issue with it you're better off getting a blink uh door doorbell that also has viewage

Yeah, yeah, well, we have the cameras, okay? So we could figure it out from that, all right? But the objective with the intercom is you're looking at the person. They look okay, all right? And now you're gonna have a conversation with them. Or, for example, what we've done is, in many cases, we might have a list of people that we're expecting. And they say, well, what's your name? Well, my name's John Doe. Oh, John Doe's on the list. It doesn't guarantee, it's just another thing that increases your probability of being safe, that's all. Agreed. But understand your comments, so appreciate it. Anything else?

Can I say one thing? What we can do on the internal planning side is reach out to the, Police Department and see if an officer can come in next meeting and at least comment on some of those concerns as far as the safety and private property trespassing And I'll ask my attorney to clarify what what he meant by that it might have been It's just first thing it popped to his mind or it might have been no no no it has to be this I'll just I'll get clarification Yeah, yeah

Okay, so with everything that's been discussed today, I'll make a motion to table this for next month's meeting. Granted that we receive more clarification as to which signs are gonna go at which doors, which font is going to be used, colors, signs, or sizes of signs, and any other detail that may go into the final installation of these signs.

Second.

All in favor?

All right. So let me just get some clarification. So do you have enough information for the intercom to make that decision next time, or do you want more details on that too? No.

Yeah, I don't think there's really gonna be much that's gonna change with the intercom Okay, you did give us the dimensions of it. Yep four inches by six inches So in my opinion an intercom is an intercom. There's not really much that's gonna change. Okay.

Okay, okay And then secondly, when do you need the information normally you need it by? I can't remember what date so just want to make sure I understand if it's gonna be at the next meeting

Yeah, so I think the next order of business is to decide on a special session date because we'll have the demolitions, the proposed demolitions from the land bank that I think we can get through this month instead of waiting for September. And if we do in fact do that, we can add Nine Riverside Drive to that agenda. So that could be a week out, two weeks out, just at some point before the next COD meeting, regular meeting, which I believe is September 1st.

Sure. Yeah, so just coordinate with TESSA and their office as to the schedule and when these need to be submitted.

Okay, well, I guess my point was in order to be on the agenda, you have to have the information like three weeks in advance or something like that, right? So I don't want to send you the stuff the day before and show up, but I need to know if it's going to be needed by next Tuesday. So that's my only point. If I may chime in. And I'm happy to coordinate with TESSA on that.

If it's a special meeting then you wouldn't be required to submit it three weeks ahead since this being card We don't generally do a public like legal noticing aspect. So, you know, we don't need anything like three weeks ahead if usually we do if we do a special meeting for a card then it's a week out so we have appropriate time to you know communicate with the members and And set something up and then you know Tessa will reach out to you when that date is it's next week or the following week we like to Keep like a week distance between our next card meeting and so there will be week before the September 1st meeting So it would be somewhere either next week or the following week Okay, all right be got it August 25th, which is three weeks from now would be one week prior to the September meeting and

Okay, all right, that's the objective then. Thank you, appreciate your patience.

Of course.

Yeah, yeah. And if it has to wait until the October meeting, I mean, that's, that just affects your schedule that we'll, we'll look at it the same way, whether it's September or October. You're welcome.

I do recommend for the special session, just looking at the calendar, that we don't have the special session on the 25th, because that is a week before the regular COD meeting. It looks like probably the best date would be the 18th, but that's something internally commissioners and I can settle on, but it may be a little bit earlier. I just wanted to put that out there so you're not caught off guard.

Well, that also facilitates the fact that you're concerned about activity starting September, early September. So if you're back on the 18th of August, if that's enough time for you folks, then it's wrapped up before your season begins.

I mean, it might be doable, but I wanna get, I've gotta do some homework and start digging in before I can determine that, and then I wanna be able to get it to you quick enough so that I don't show up and send it to you the night before. Yeah. Okay, got it.

Thank you.

All right, yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

All right, does anybody else on the commission have any new or old business to discuss? Okay, I think we're pretty much wrapped up here then. Do I have a motion to adjourn?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. All right. I don't know. There's nothing else for John to take care of, so I don't think there's any reason to, right? Okay.