Historic Preservation Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

All right. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Rachel, and we have a new person, Irene Powell. She's a new member of our board. So we'll go through introductions in a minute. So I call the August 5th meeting of the Historic Preservation Advisory Board to order at 541. And next is board introductions, now that we've had the call to order. So since the three of us hardly know each other, we can do a little extended introduction. Introduction rather than just name so chair Patrick Cruz could not make it tonight, so he asked me to run the meeting My name is Kerry Gregory cultural resources specialist laboratory I have a undergraduate degree in archaeology and anthropology and a master's degree in historic preservation And I serve as an architectural and landscape historian at the lab resource rich as the rest of the county is so I It's an honor to be able to work on this board and help the county with their resources as well. So, Rachel.

Hi. I'm Rachel Adler. I am an architectural conservator for the National Park Service. I also have a bachelor's in archaeology and a master's in historic preservation. And I have spent the last 15 years working either for the Park Service Bandelier or at the regional office down in Santa Fe with this two-year stint in the archives with the state. Sounds great.

So you worked with the state?

I did. I'm currently back with the federal government with the Park Service again. I worked for the state for two years.

Are you living in Santa Fe?

I know. I live in White Rock.

What did I read? You want to introduce yourself? Well, I... What can I say? I don't have any degree in geology, archaeology. You don't have to. I've just been in Los Alamos about 35 years. And, of course, I love it. I've been on so many committees and ad hoc boards and things. And I thought I had retired from all that, but I thought, oh, they said they really needed people. And I love the history of this area. I've been a volunteer volunteer. at the Historical Museum for years, for most of those 30 years. And I travel a lot. I'm just on the substitute list at Beta House. And I just live right across the street. I just walk right over. I tell people I live across the street from Oppenheimer's Historic House, which is true. And we used to know the Sudams. And Jerry would walk his Siamese. Well, the Siamese cat would follow him. I loved it and Helene was just wonderful and I feel really old because yeah we would see Norris Bradbury and Lois at the grocery store and this sort of brilliant man pushing the grocery cart you know and his wife was like four eight you know just Lois was wonderful but so yeah I just have always been interested in the history here and the area and of course the culture and there's so much So I'm just really thrilled to be in such company here.

You're welcome. We're pleased to have you. And I know I'll learn a lot. Well, I think it's important to have the community's perspective. So you bring that. I've only been in the community for six years, so I appreciate that greatly. Okay. Next is approval of today's agenda. So I am looking for a motion to approve today's agenda.

I guess I can, can I? Yes, you can. I move that we approve this agenda.

Do I have a second? Second. Excellent. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, today's agenda is approved. Is there any discussion on the agenda? I think, Rachel, you were at this meeting. I think that was your first meeting, the agenda that you're looking at now. No discussion? Okay.

Do you mean the minutes?

Minutes, yes. Sorry. Geez. No, it's okay. I struggle. No, it's good. Old menopause.

All good.

Okay. Review and approval of the meeting minutes. So now I am looking for a motion to approve the meeting minutes of our last meeting, which was June 10. Anyone have a motion to approve those minutes?

I know this is the minutes from the meeting.

Excellent. Do I have a second? Okay. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All right. The meeting minutes of June 10th have been approved. Is there any discussion or questions about the minutes?

Reapproval required.

All right, do we have anybody online for public comment for items not on the agenda? Nobody in the room. OK, moving on. Next item is our historic preservation business. And today we are talking about the 2026 work plan for the board. This work plan was approved in February. Patrick and I met, I believe, in the April-May timeframe and worked on some goals and strategy and schedule based on a request from council to be accountable to our work plan and kind of do a check-in. So, Rachel, I gave you a copy of this last meeting. Do you still have it? I don't know. Teresa, were you?

I was not. Okay.

And I gave you one too, Kristen. Do you want another? Okay, so Patrick and I actually put our thoughts and ideas in writing, and I thought a good way to bring Irene up to speed and catch Rachel up would just be to go through the work plan goals and strategy and schedule document. We took all of the items that were in the work plan and then looked at how we can strategize to accomplish them, what the needs would be to accomplish them, and then the the schedule to accomplish them. Clearly, we're running a bit behind. We're already in July, and we're just kind of getting a full board and running, and we've had a couple of snow days. So we're a little behind. And so Patrick and I have also kind of prioritized the things that we'd like to get done, because I think at this point, we are not going to be able to complete the entire work plan as hoped for, optimistically, in December. So just going through this document, I think we had nine goals, and so we'll just kind of go through and discuss. I would like to wait for Patrick to come back before we have any vote, but I will let you know what our recommendations were to the board on how to move forward for the rest of the year. So referring to this document, we prepared the strategic plan in April, And we did feel that its success was dependent on full HPAB membership, which we have not had, so that's why I consider prioritization. So the first goal was the HPAB is directed to participate in advisory board training coordinated by the department to include receiving instruction on board roles and responsibilities. effective meeting conduct, compliance with the New Mexico Open Meetings Act, and the importance of avoiding discussion of business before a meeting is called to order or after it has adjourned. So the strategy would be for the four of us to attend those training sessions, follow the instructions, and comply with the New Mexico Open Meetings Act. That goal is really in the county's department. Danielle was going to set the schedule. Our responsibility is to participate as requested.

questions or discussion on that goal. Is the idea that the training would take place during the time of one of our regular meetings or would it be outside of the meeting? I do not know.

They usually take place during a meeting.

Oh, excellent.

Okay. Thank you for that feedback. Appreciate that. Goal two, we will collaborate with staff to conduct meetings in an efficient and orderly manner by understanding agenda structure and following adopted rules of procedure. Members will also receive periodic refreshers on meeting facilitation and public engagement best practices. So the strategy to complete that one is to collaborate with the department to conduct meetings properly, follow the adopted rules of procedure, and attend the periodic refreshers. Again, that is in the county's court to set the schedule, and our job is to participate as requested. Any questions or discussion on that one? Okay. The third goal was to support the efforts to fill our membership vacancies and to maintain a fully staffed board membership. So the strategy for that was for, when I say department, I mean county, to actively solicit applicants through advertisements and postings, us as members to spread the word in our circles, and the chair to participate in applicant interviews. Again, this ball is kind of in the county's court as they set the schedule, but our participation is the chair to participate in those interviews as requested. So we are at four now of our five. So Irene, thank you. Rachel, thank you. Goal four, Historic Preservation Advisory Board would like to better understand the Historic Preservation Master Plan contract and support the project and its outcomes. So just over this last year, the county hired a consultant to create a Historic Preservation Master Plan. Did either of you go to the meeting that they had at Fuller Lodge? They had a public meeting in April or May. I don't remember.

I didn't go to the public meeting, but I did meet with the consultants. Oh, good.

Excellent. And they had a series of walks in the neighborhood. Oh, it was wonderful. Yes.

Okay. Yes. Yeah. They're a good group of people. They're easy to talk to, and I look forward to working with them. So Patrick and I's goal of this was really to better understand that contract and how we can support them. I think their schedule is running a little slower than anticipated in that they only had their first public meeting. But as things continue, there may be more participation opportunities for the board. So our strategy were for us to attend the public meeting, respond to inquiries. I'm glad you both engaged with them and spoken to them. And then support the county in that. making that master plan a success.

They are hoping to have a draft ready for presentation in October.

That's wonderful.

October-ish to the council. I don't know if it will be before or after the October meeting.

Well, that's great news.

Thank you. Wanted me to mention that they should have something for this draft for early October.

Wonderful. That's great news. So we had asked the county to notify us about meetings and other engagement opportunities and to participate as available. And so our responsibility was to participate as available throughout the contract. So I did go to the meeting. I did have a conference call with him. So I'm like, you talked to them, and you went on the tour. So so far, we are accomplishing that goal. Any other discussion on that? All right, goal number five, the board as it was, and I guess we can talk about this again now. When we wrote this, we felt that the county should employ or contract a cultural resources specialist to better support their projects and initiatives and to implement the historic master plan recommendations. We have presented this to the county. The county has asked that the board review the state certified local government guidelines Los Alamos County is a certified local government, or a CLG, you'll hear me use that term, to review those guidelines and apply for any available grants that would enhance the county's mission for historic preservation. So we were directed to research and evaluate available federal and state grant funding opportunities related to the potential engagement of a cultural resources specialist. This assignment includes reviewing the applicable CLG requirements and standards with specific Attention to New Mexico administrative code for 10 10 19 G and providing advisory input regarding eligibility compliance considerations and potential funding pathways The laboratory has 2,000 archaeological sites and 260 historical facilities and the county has more than that so we've always felt that there's a dense heritage here and and that we felt that the county could use more support with a cultural resources specialist, either on staff or under contract. And then with the Historic Preservation Master Plan coming in, we know that that's going to have recommendations, and so our thought has always been there needs to be someone at the county who can implement those recommendations. So our strategy at the time when we had a full board was to form a two-party cultural resources specialist working group which would review the state of New Mexico certified local government program manual, create a justification for the county to hire or contract a cultural resources specialist, and define what tasks a person in that role would perform, review the state of New Mexico grants manual and the notice of grant availability when posted, determine if the county qualifies for a grant that would support a cultural resources specialist, and then that... Our working group would present the findings back to this board, develop recommendations for the county to employ or contract a cultural resources specialist to support the council's projects and initiatives, and then provide information to complete the grant application, if appropriate. Last year, the grants were due in April, so we, this last April, Patrick and I proposed the following schedule. We were hoping that by July, the program manual could be reviewed, justification and tasks could be accomplished by, or defining justification and tasks. By August this month, review the grant information by September, determine if the county qualifies by October, present the findings to the board by November, develop recommendations by December, and provide information by January so that if the grant was due in April, the county would have plenty of time to run it by council and get that application in. That was a lot. I think Patrick and I, our July meeting, we didn't have quorum, so Patrick and I took a little bit of time, and if there's any goal that we'd still like to work on this year, even though our year is shortened, it was this one. We still think this is really important and probably our priority.

Yes, please. So, a couple questions, actually. So, it sounds like this would be applying for grants that would supply funding to provide salary for either a county employee or someone the county would... A contractor. Correct. I think by the nature of being funded by a grant would be a temporary position. Correct. Okay. And then, has there been any... Was there any thought given to looking outside of the state of New Mexico... Grants. Programs. Yes. Or, you know, extra funding or, you know, looking at either federal grants programs or privately offered grants.

Yes.

We've just not gotten that far yet. Okay.

But, yes, all grants were on the table. I think the state grant was... No hanging fruit. It didn't require a lot of research because we have the manual we have from last year on how to do the application and have the calendar. But yes, any grants. I think, and then part of the thought was of creating, because I think in the past this board has gotten asked, what would that person do? Why are they needed? So I think a lot of the effort was creating a list of tasks and why that role is important to have at the county. So it's kind of, it's two-pronged, it's not written into here, two-pronged, but it's one, going after grants, but ultimately making a case to the council of why we think this is an important position that needs to be staffed. And maybe if we could do that through getting a grant to start it off, then maybe it could go to council for the position.

Yeah, that was my second question, was there a reason for, for not going to council and offering it up as a potential council-funded staff position.

I was told directly there was no budget, and I left it at that. I did not do any further research.

I mean, that's fair, but also... Yeah, and the budget process is usually in April. Sure, okay. What you outlined here is what we need.

We'll work for that as well? Okay, excellent. Well, that's good. So yeah, I think as we go through this, this is the one that if we have the energy and folks have the time and maybe we can only meet two at a time to not be in quorum. So perhaps we divvy up and do things concurrently. This was kind of an ideal world where we do one thing and then we do kind of consecutive. But if we divided the reading up and could all look at it and then come together and talk about it in these meetings. That might be a way to beat the schedule on that one a little bit. So, yeah, that's excellent thoughts, though. I am not familiar with grants.

in the federal realm so I would be interested to hear your thoughts I'm just gonna say my first thought is that currently it's a hard environment grants that deal with cultural anything are not are few and far between okay and so mostly what we're I mean I'm you know in the federal system right now mostly what we are working with is taking the budget that we're getting from the government and because we don't have the staff to do work, partnering with universities and sometimes contractors, not so much with cultural projects. It is mostly agreements and partnerships with non-profits and universities. But we have not had a huge amount of luck applying for grants that don't specifically have a start and end goal, and also brick and mortar projects. It's much more likely to be successful if you have a building and it has this amount of deferred maintenance.

It's finite.

And it's progress that you can see. It's hiring a person. It's certainly progress for that person and progress for the county and progress for the board.

But harder to justify in terms of why the money should be spent that way as opposed to in other ways. Well, I appreciate your perspective. That's not an area that I have spent much of my career in.

Thank you.

So maybe we'll come back. I would like to get through the whole work plan, and then we can talk about priorities. So I appreciate that conversation. Goal six was explore additional public outreach opportunities within the community, such as additional county fairs where historic preservation and the presence of the board within the county can be promoted. So another two-party working group was on community outreach to explore opportunities and the tools needed to conduct research, such as Patrick went to the Spring Arts and Crafts Fair And the Los Alamos Historical Society kindly provided him a table, but he had no banner, he had no materials, he had no way to say, this is who I am. So part of that effort would be not only where to do outreach, but what tools are needed to conduct successful outreach. Yes, we do have a... Liz left me a stack of them. Okay. Danielle has a box. Okay, good. So we are good. And that was created for last year's fair. So it went through. Yes, it's considered current. And we tried to make it kind of timeless. And that we didn't put dates on there so it doesn't look out of date. Okay, so the strategy to do that was, again, to create a two-person working group. Our schedule was kind of conduct research throughout the year and meet bi-monthly to discuss findings. Again, present findings by November 2026 so that the board can include these ideas in the 2027 work plan.

Any discussion on that one?

And I think that's something we can still do in our own, in our circles. Again, we do have four people now, so we do have enough to do a couple of two-party working groups. Goal seven, the board would like to better understand how the county identifies historic properties, determines impacts to historic properties by projects, follows the Secretary of the Interior standards for the treatment of historic properties, and communicates determinations with the New Mexico State Historic Preservation Officer. So we know that this activity is happening. we and we know that the county doesn't have a cultural person so we were trying to understand how this happens and how this operates so we asked to be introduced to staff serving we have been told that there is an archaeologist on staff although we haven't quite figured out who that is we've been told that there's a cultural resources person but we I don't know who that is. Anyway, but learn about their roles and responsibilities and how to better incorporate and align their activities with ours. We want to support. We want to advise. So this was another two-party working group to, one, investigate the various processes, identify participants, define thresholds for decisions, and identify guidance documents and referenced cultural resources lists. We had a concern that the county does not have for resources like in a GIS platform where they can say, oh, there's a pipeline going through here, and oh, there's two archaeological sites and a historic building. How do we make sure they don't damage those? So we don't really understand how the county assesses that. So defining thresholds for decisions, lists, to write up the results of that research and then make recommendations to the department and the board for better integration and or communications. Again, we want to be able to help the county with this So I don't want it to sound like we're being critical, but we just don't understand how the county does this and how can we help the county do it better. So our schedule for that was to conduct research and have discussions with county staff throughout the year and meet bi-monthly to discuss and then present findings to this board by October 26 on our findings. In relation to this, Danielle has suggested that she's going to have county members come and speak with us at these meetings about what they do and how they do that. So this may be less about us going out and trying to find out, but her bringing people in to share their processes with us. Okay, number eight. Continue to participate in Historic Preservation Month activities. So I can say this one was met. We met this goal. In order to promote historic preservation, raise awareness of the presence of the board and our mission and to encourage community participation and comment. So last year we dedicated to participating in more community and public events and activities which promote the awareness of historic preservation. including and especially activities associated with Historic Preservation Month, which is in May every year, and the Manhattan Project National Historical Park. So our strategy was to identify, research, and discuss activities and commit to participate in the preferred alternatives. And we were gonna get information from the public outreach working group to see what our options were. So a schedule for any year was that, especially for May, For preservation month this January, February, begin those discussions. March, outline a tentative plan and develop proclamation text. We greatly appreciate the county doing a preservation month proclamation every year. April, confirm activities and participants. May, commit and participate. So 2026, we wrote and accepted a proclamation in May. We joined the Historical Society and the Los Alamos Arts Council Spring Arts and Crafts Fair. We attended the public meeting by the Historic Preservation Master Plan. We did not participate with the county council. We did not have, I had not been renewed at that point in time, so I wasn't an actual board member, so I couldn't participate. So anyway, we did accomplish goal eight, but May is coming soon again, and we need to think about new things to do. So we have found, I think for three years in a row now, we've been doing the Spring Arts and Crafts Council. We've been doing the Proclamation. Those have been working really well. And maybe with the Historic Master Plan Contractor, there will be other opportunities as well to do things. Any thoughts or questions on that goal? Very straightforward. Okay. And then our last goal was continued attendance with other county boards to gather information about ongoing county projects, concerns, activities, and to advocate for our inclusion where applicable. So the strategy for that goal was to encourage members to attend other county boards, such as planning and zoning, art and public places, and parks and recreation. And there is a section in our agenda where we can discuss our participation, I'm at those meetings and talk about what we learned. Sometimes we get asked to attend those meetings. There was a period of time where I felt like all of us were going to an extra meeting a month. I no longer can fit that into my schedule. But I do try to attend Zoom when I can and listen in and kind of see what's going on. Those were the three boards that we felt we probably had the most overlap with and could contribute or... Exchange information? Does that seem right to you?

Yeah, I'm just kind of going through my head thinking of any others. Yeah, those make the most sense to me. Okay, okay. And listening in on Zoom is probably just fine. That way, you know, if there's like just one item on their agenda that you wanted to hear about, then you don't have to be present the entire time, so.

You can also listen to recordings because now the recordings are done. So I went to the first Parks and Rec meeting and introduced myself as someone from this board. And so you're welcome to do that as well and say I represent this board.

All right. Do we need to? not sign up for a particular board. I can go to all of these if I wanted to. You can go to any one or none. Oh, gee, I should do this.

Yeah, and what I've been doing, my schedule's gotten a little tighter personally and professionally, so I pull up the agenda and see if there's anything that I would be interested in listening to.

And see, I'm retired, so I'm more flexible, so, yeah, I'd love to go to meetings.

Yeah, and if you... want to go to those meetings and then come back and let us know if you've learned anything. But yeah, so this was just, we found this was a really good way to kind of integrate ourselves and find out when things were happening. Like from the parks and rec meeting, I learned about their historic tree inventory. And so I was able to share that at this board so that Maybe the historic master plan people can understand about the historic tree inventory. So it's just a way of sharing an information exchange. But again, this was an encourage attendance. I know we all have busy schedules. But if you have the time and the interest in attending any other meeting, there is a spot in the agenda where you can share what you found. Loretta actually sat on a working group of the art in public places for a long time. So she would always report back on that board. She was working with the homesteader signage and such. Okay, that was a lot of me talking. So those were the nine goals that we interpreted from our work plan. Any general discussion or questions? Or is there something else that you think we should be working on?

Just to understand timeline, are the working plans, are they generally speaking for the calendar year or for the fiscal year? Calendar year.

Calendar year, okay. So we start considering them in November, try to have them drafted by December, January, depending on snow cancellations.

When does the council approve those, like February?

Usually March. We were trying to push it up, but it's usually February, March. I think we have a working group that meets and reviews them and then presents them back to the full council.

Okay. So it's something that we'll start talking about in a few months. And I think Daniel's goal has always been for us to finalize by December. We did have a December snow cancellation this last one, so we didn't finalize until, I think,

This says February, so for some reason we weren't able to finalize in January either.

So yes, it's a calendar year. I think Patrick reports to the council?

There's a presentation once a year.

Okay, which I think he just did last month.

Yeah.

So that's one way that we stay accountable to our work plan is Patrick. The chair of the board goes and presents. This effort that Patrick and I did in April is because of the council asking for more accountability on the boards and to kind of stay closer attuned and aligned with our work plans. So that was a request by Danielle for us to do that. As noted, we are already in July and we're just starting to talk about things and really look at our goals hard, so we're a little behind. because of meeting cancellations and forum issues. But I think we still have time to do something.

Huh? We're in August.

Oh, we're in August.

That's right. I totally missed it.

I was like, yeah. Okay. September, October, November, December. So that gives us four more months, of which December we have to commit to work planning. So that really gives us three more months.

I guess my question is, because we're already in August, we're meant to be working on the 2027 plan in December. I know you mentioned this when you were talking, but, you know, there are nine goals and there are a few that have already been accomplished. Correct. If it makes sense to go through and prioritize the remaining goals or split them into sort of like you have to do, yes, to do, it's okay if it doesn't get done. Absolutely. We can focus our energies on what we think is most important. I love that idea. And then we can not feel too bad about not getting the things done that we will virtually, like not getting done.

So the first four goals are in the county's court. So I think we can just – I don't think we need to consider those. That's going to be on departments' – The schedule, those are the trainings and... Yeah, so if we can focus on goals five through nine, of which eight is accomplished. I think I could call it completed. In my mind, I would call nine probably the least important. Again, I think it's more of a nice to do when we have a full complement and time and energy. So if we look at that, then that really leaves 5, 6, and 7 as the meat of our work plan this year. So that's going through the process to see if we can find any grants for a cultural resources specialist and substantiate the need. Six, the public outreach opportunities exploration. And seven, how the county identifies historic properties. Seven, I would almost deprioritize now that Danielle is going to have people coming in and talking to us. That's less on us to explore. However, I think it kind of feeds into goal five of understanding why we need a person.

I was going to say, if they're saying that the county already has an archaeologist and a cultural resources person, I almost think that we need to understand who those people are and what they do before we advertise or think about what we would advertise for a separate person to come in and serve that purpose. Because we don't want to bring somebody in to do work that's already being done. And if that work is not being done, we need pretty solid proof that it's not being done and a justification for why it needs to be done. And we can use that as our ammunition for goal number five.

So I think for goal number seven, I may have been a little strong when I said I was told that there are these people. There's been...

inferences that these people exist.

So how about I reach out to Danielle and kind of get a firm answer and let her know that we really need to understand if there are people that are, and it may be that there are people doing this job, but that's not their title. Yeah, which, you know, is the way things go usually. Yes, collateral duties. Oh, absolutely. So I will commit to reach out to Danielle and get a better understanding of, is there staff here that is filling those roles? I'll say it that way.

And if there are, how are they filling them? And I don't want to denigrate anyone, but maybe there are people who are filling those roles who don't necessarily have the training or the background to be doing them in a way that's basically the best for stewardship of the resources.

And that's good for us to know, too. It is, because that would be a different direction for the grant to be used by. If there are people and staff that do this, maybe getting them better training to do it is a better... grant to pursue rather than a staffer or another person. Throwing bodies at it, as we know, isn't always an answer.

I do wonder if the county has relied in the past on the resources people at the lab and with the parks and the sites to do this kind of work. Because I know the lab has a lot of gold. And they don't. No, we can't. Oh, that's true.

Okay. Yeah. But I know that like... We do in personal. Yeah.

But in terms of like, you know, exchanging money for like a product, that's not a thing. No, that doesn't happen. I know... You can't really have a mixed-up practice either. Right, but it's the same. It kind of, it does happen kind of like personal interactions. Good. Please. Oh, yes, please.

I was just going to, I mean, you can always maybe create a, just a professional group of people that, you know, have those backgrounds and meet on a periodic basis for whatever reason. Just to discuss, you know, cultural resources or archaeology or whatever in general. Yeah. More of a learning opportunity. I don't know. I like that. But it's a possibility and it, It could be done more as a social aspect.

I think what I got, we did have a discussion at one point in time because Liz was asking about the changes to the little theater. And there was some discussion of, if you don't have a person to tell you that that's a historical building, how do you know it's a historical building or not? And so what happened is I think they were changing fire protection in there, and they weren't treating it like a historical facility because nobody knew what it was or should be. I'm probably getting this wrong, but the point was is that they want to build a pipeline or they want to replace a door or window, and if there's nobody to say, oh, that's a historical facility, you need to do this, how do we protect the resources? And so there was... And also, too... but they knew about the women's dormitory. So apparently because if it's planning and zoning, it goes through a mapping process, then it gets triggered. But if it's just inside a building, they have no trigger. So that was another thing that we were trying to understand the thresholds. And is there a list of the historical buildings here that the county owns that someone then says, oh, if you want to do that in that building, we need to, go by the Secretary of the Interior Standards and we need to go talk to Historic Preservation Advisory Board. And I think we'll have a better idea of that when the Historic Master Plan gets done. Because I think part of their effort is to identify historical... buildings and structures. They are not doing archeology though. I don't believe the county has had a full archeological survey. Yeah, me too. What would the person do? They'd be doing archeological survey, they'd be doing, you know, I don't think the county has done a good job at identifying their historic properties.

This board is for buildings. Because I know there was something that came up about, you mentioned the little theater, about the furnace. Yes. Did you hear about the furnace? Yes, my co-workers stepped in in a personal capacity. So we don't do just the building, not the furnace. Is that... No, I wouldn't call that accurate.

No. We do... My understanding is historic preservation, the bigger historic preservation. So archaeology and preservation planning and historic buildings and structures. Even trails and cultural landscapes. Yes, all of that. All included. I would like to think that all of those fall under our purview.

That's good. And so the little theater and then the... For the women's dormitory, I think the reason that went to planning and zoning was because there was going to be a change in use, and so it needed a change in zoning. And once there was going to be a change in zoning, that's why we had to look over the site plan and all the new stuff that they were putting in to make sure that it matched up with all the criteria that's on code. And, but you're right. I mean, especially in a place like Los Alamos, where a lot of the buildings are historic, but they're like from the 40s or 50s, and they don't necessarily look like something that someone would want to save. Yeah. I think it's doubly important to have somebody with a good idea of which of those buildings are important to preserve. Yeah. which aren't... I also think people like to hide behind fire protection a lot when they're making changes to their buildings because, like, oh, well, we were told we could do this because, you know, health, life, safety. Yes. So I do think that you need to have an entity that's sort of looking over that and saying, like, well, this doesn't work.

So I applaud the county for hiring the historic master plan contractor. I mean, I think the effort there... Well, this board was told it was a full cultural resources survey. It's only built environment, but that's better than nothing. And so I'm really looking forward. I think that's going to give us that list that we're all so interested in for the project managers at the county to know when they're dealing with a facility that has a historic component to it. So I think that's a great start to the identification of resources in the county. Yeah, I had a... gentleman who was kind of a site steward come and tell me that there was some petroglyphs at the laboratory that had graffiti on them and there were petroglyphs at the county on county land that had graffiti on them so we went to the ones on the laboratory property and yes they had graffiti on them but it was from the 80s so it's graffiti that we already knew about so that was good and I said I And so I reached out to Danielle to say, who does she contact at the county? And he said, Wendy Parker for County Parks and Rec. So it was, and so he didn't get anywhere with them to try to figure out how to identify, document, mitigate the damage that was done. And so, yeah, I think there's a gap, but I think it's fillable, workable, and I want to help the county to figure that out. I think we could do a better job, so.

I was just wondering, at any point, do you, does the county need to contact local Pueblos? I don't know. They come across.

I don't know what their consultation strategy is.

I'm guessing if they're getting, if there's federal funding involved in any way, then the answer is yes. But otherwise, I don't know that they have a policy on tribal consultation or, like,

This board doesn't cover ruins.

Well, it does in the sense that we're just an advisory board. So we tend to advise when the council brings us items or other departments bring us items to review, like the dormitory. They wanted this board's concurrence approval on the dormitory project before it went to P&Z, thinking that it would have stronger appreciation if planning and zoning could appreciate that we liked the plan from a historical perspective.

It seems that the county, I'm sure, has this all. Every time they build a road or do something and they uncover some ruins, there must be some policy with the county.

And that's what we don't know.

And who they contact and they can't progress until they talk to somebody. Yeah, that's our number seven. We don't really, and that's okay. Yeah, I know. You're right there. Yeah, but there should be because this has been going on for.

Yeah, so we don't understand what the process is, who the people are, and what the thresholds are. I got in a situation where the county reached out to the state historic preservation officer about a project and I know someone in that office, and they asked me about it. And I said, I don't know. They said, well, don't you serve on the board? Yeah, I do. The county didn't tell us that they were going to communicate with the SHPO's office. And so it's a small community, as you know. And that was fine. I'm like, that's not how the process works. So after that, I told Danielle, I said, I feel like this board should at least see and know what – the county is talking to the state historic preservation officer about whether we vote on it, see it, understand it, but just an acknowledgement that the county is going to the SHPO. I feel like this board should know that that's happening on a building or a project or whatever. So that was kind of where seven also came out of. So I think the county is doing the right thing. This is not a gotcha situation. I just... I don't know if they're doing as good as they could. And so it was kind of, we understood their processes a little better and who was doing that. And again, it may be they have staff that's doing this, maybe additional training or a working group or some kind of professional, you said professional group, but yeah, having a cohort of people that they can talk to. And maybe that's this board. Maybe this board can provide that for the county people that are doing it.

Do we tell people If they're living in a, well, they already know it, but a historical home.

We don't have anything.

I mean, you cannot paint that as pink and you can't do it. We don't have. Unless it's registered with the historic history.

Yeah, I think there's a historic preservation overlay zone. And I think the only building in it right now is the Unitarian Church because it's the old Manhattan Project building. The United Church.

The United Church, sorry.

Yes, I said it wrong.

I'm sorry. You knocked down the old men's door.

Yeah. So I know that part of this board's goal in the county code is to get more buildings added to that overlay zone. And I think it was attempted previously. partially before I got here, and it didn't go well with the owners, and so then it was like, we need to make a communication strategy to, so owners know that it doesn't mean we can't, that they can't paint, they can't.

Like the Lustron, is that how I said, Lustron metal, we went on that walking tour, so I was several in that same neighborhood, and I thought, well, one of them, I think they did put siding over the metal, and I went, oh my, can they do that?

They can, it's a private property, and they can do that, so. I think if they were in the overlay zone, and correct me if I'm wrong, there could be some limitations on what they do or at least approval of what they do.

Or bathtub row, for instance. I think that's what they really wanted in the overlay zone. That's not yet. Really? So they can paint their house pink if they wanted to. Yeah, no, I used to live in a historical district in Dallas, and they are very strict.

Historic district is different than a historic preservation overlay zone. I think they did that intentionally. Again, not impede on private property rights. Yeah, no, all good questions, good conversation. So there's a lot we can do here. I guess I don't want to go too far without Patrick, but would you, I think we've decided that five and seven are kind of where we want to put our energy the last of this year.

I think I like six, but I almost feel like five is a priority. Six needs like a fresh start for next year. Okay. And we're already so far through this year that, I don't know, community outreach always takes us. It always takes longer to set up and then put into place than you think it's going to. It's not just about filling out a form so you can have a tent at a fair. There has to be some kind of strategy behind it.

And I also think with the Historic Preservation Master Plan, I think using that as a springboard to have those discussions, to be in those public meetings with the contractor, And I think I'm sure that communication strategy is going to be part of whatever recommendations that they make, or is going to have to be a part of if they're not explicitly called out. So I agree. I think if there's a draft floating around in October, maybe we can see ways that we can fit this goal onto things that they're already doing and for next year's work plan. Does that sound okay to you, Irene?

Yes, that would be great.

I'm impressed. Well, thank you. We're trying to... Well, thank you for doing all of this. You're very welcome. Together, a huge amount.

It was good, though, because we do the work plan, and then we kind of get going in the year, and all of a sudden it's like, wait. It was good to do a touchback and to kind of see where we were at. So, if we focus on five and seven, what can be some action items out of that? So, I have my first one. to reach out to Danielle about number seven and understand a little bit better to share at the next meeting if there are if the county does have cultural resources staffers and if not do they have people that serve in those roles and what are their responsibilities and in the meantime I'm wondering if we can get started on five And maybe not working group because Patrick's not here, but perhaps we all take some time to read the CLG program manual by the next meeting and come with thoughts or ideas. And I think Rachel, you, and I, and Patrick probably on our own time can start creating those justifications and defining a task of what they would do.

Have you worked in like private CRM?

No, I've not. Okay. public servant all the way oh my gosh well thank you I appreciate it so yeah I'd like to I think start thinking about that but I think understanding the CLG program manual and understanding what the state requires of the county in this role is going to be critical to defining those tasks finding the grant so I guess I'm kind of assigning as homework if you can spend any time by the September meeting to review the CLG program manual, which is part of our binder. Yeah, I'm... Oh, I needed a binder.

You didn't get all the documents.

Well, I made it a binder.

I just made this folder myself. Okay.

But I didn't know there was a... All right, there is a files that all members were supposed to get. Did you not get one either? Okay. Okay. I commit to making you two binders that have all of the, let me just go over that really quickly.

Yes, so.

Actually, I have all, I can send you all the digital files. So it's the Historic Preservation Advisory Board member handbook contents. It is the roster, which I don't have a current version. I have the old version. It is the Los Alamos County Code, Chapter 8, Article 3, Historic Preservation Advisory Board. So that's our charge. The New Mexico Certified Local Government Program Manual. That's what I'm talking about reviewing now. One, two, three, four of the Los Alamos County Codes. 16-9, which is the Historic Protection Overlay Zone. I was saying Historic Preservation. My bad. It's Historic Protection Overlay Zone District. The legislative procedures, the administrative procedures, and the quasi-judicial procedures. The certified local government New Mexico Historic District Landmark Act. Our 2024 work plan. An inventory of federal and state designated historic sites, which is just a PDF of various lists that have been put together. It looks like one of them came from the state, and then there's some local lists. I think the Historical Society had a list. The Fuller Lodge Interpretive Plan, which this year we agreed that all the recommendations have been met, so we're no longer reviewing that. And then historical information on the Los Alamos Memorial Rose Garden. And then we were told to consider additional documents as needed. And I found a historic preservation plan from 2008 that was not included in here. So we added it.

Would you copy me on that? Yes.

Yes. Do you have a copy of that? Of the handbook?

Would you like to be on that email too? I feel like I probably should. I think so too.

And then what I did is I just printed everything and put it in a binder so that I could reference it. You're not going to get a nice binder, are you?

I have a bunch of them in my room.

I'm teasing. Well, at first I thought, oh, I can print them, and then I realized I can't print little things at work. Oh, strict. So anyway, I will, that's my second act, is to send everybody this digital catalog of things. And so the Certified Local Government Program Manual is in that. I'm sorry, I've actually already pulled it out and started making notes on it, so it is not currently in my binder. No, okay. So I think that would be a good start. Any other action items that you can think of that we should do? I'll bring Patrick up to speed. what we've decided, what we're doing.

Does Patrick work at the lab?

No, he works at Bandelier National Monument. I can't remember his specific title, Rachel. I also can't remember. He deals with the collections and tribal consultation. He might be a curator. It might be the curator. It might be his job title, even though that might not be what he actually does. He does a lot of that and a lot of other things. So, yes, he works at Bandelier.

And you're just a government just, a government job, though.

I'm also with the Park Service, but I work for a regional program. And so I do a fair amount of work at Bandelier because they ask for our help a lot. But also we get asked for help from parks all through the Intermountain region. So it's like Montana all the way south to Texas.

Do you work in that lovely building? Jealous. It is beautiful. Jealous, jealous.

Where is this lovely building? It's down in Santa Fe, right next to Museum Hill.

Southwest Regional Office, is that what it's called?

That's what it used to be called. It's an adobe building. It was built in 1937 by the Civilian Conservation Corps. It's on the north end of Museum Hill. It's a beautiful building. It has a rose garden on the interior. It's cool.

Okay, well, where are we at? We are at 20 to seven. We have till 7.30, but I'm not sure if any more discussion would be useful. Is there anything else you guys would like to talk about the work plan?

The only thing that came to mind, and I hate to be that person to bring up yet another thing, and this is something that can definitely be put off until some of the other tasks are completed, but the grants research, especially if we're gonna kind of widen our scope in terms of what we're looking at for grants, not just looking within grants that are offered by the state, but grants that are offered federally, if there are any private or non-profit organizations that offer grants. Working in cultural resources, you think about using a grant to fund a position and I'm like, I would like $2,000 please. So that, you know, our building doesn't fall down. Right. So it's kind of a, I don't know that I would know where to look for kind of the larger ticket, um, items that you would be able to use a grant for. Um, but just something to like, if that's, if we should start looking now, or if we want to wait until we have kind of a better idea of what the needs are first.

We kind of do them concurrently. So I think looking for them now, I might poke around just to see if I can find anything. They just revamped the Historic Preservation Directory website. I don't know if you ever used it. I have, but it's been... Yeah, so they had a section on jobs, on grant, like funding and... It was really just kind of the place to go if you had a degree in historic preservation and was kind of curious what you could do with it.

Different from PreserveNet? It might be the same. PreserveNet by Cornell?

Yeah. Anyway, they just revamped it, and so I'm wondering, that's probably where I'll go first, just to get an idea, flavor for what's out there. Yeah, I used to use PreserveNet, too, but not that one. CLG guide when we were talking about all this and it was not clear to me that it could cover a staff position so we may find out very quickly that or that those grant not CLG sorry that the grant does not cover that I'm trying to think I need to add that I don't think that information is in the binder I just went and found it from last year because I'm on the listserv so I see the stuff goes around I will add that grant information to all of these things. I'll update this content list. Can I ask you to add one more thing to this?

Yes. What the counties, UNM, LA, archaeology, as a student, maybe they want to write. I like that a lot. Yeah, I think...

And I think even the CLG manual says that the county needs to either have a staff person that is responsible for cultural resources or has an on-call contractor. So that's another question for Danielle. Does the county have an on-call contractor?

Or you may have somebody with that title because it's required. Right. And not necessarily somebody, like you said, somebody that doesn't necessarily have that background.

Yeah, I, yes. But that's okay. Like I said, I mean, that's what we're here for. We're here to help the county with this gap that we think we've identified, and maybe there isn't a gap. I mean, that's part of this was just understanding that better so that we can provide better support. All right. Well, I think this has been a very good discussion, and I appreciate you throwing you into the deep end of the pool with this that, you know, Patrick and I have been thinking about for months, so I appreciate you comprehending it on the fly. Okay, so before we close this out, action items. I am going to ask Danielle about the cultural resources, especially archaeologists, their staff that kind of do those roles. I am going to ask her also about if we could find some funding, would the county consider an internship and maybe a shared person between other like-minded institutions. I'm going to send everybody in this room all of the documents that I was given when I started, along with the grant information that we have since compiled. And I'm going to bring Patrick up to speed with what we've discussed.

And you have my email?

Yes, I do have your email. I think what I'll do... is I will probably send it to the HPAB. Kristen, can you remind me? That's how I send things out to not start a ruling quorum, correct? I send it out to the HPAB. To check with Danielle. Okay. Okay.

You can send information out. Just no response required. Okay. Don't ask questions. Don't answer. Don't reply all with questions or any kind of discussion.

I may also be able to send it to myself and just BCC everybody in here, and then you can't really respond. So, okay. I know I've asked Danielle that question several times because I use that email so intermittently that I can never remember anything.

You should make sure that Irene's on there. Yes.

And my email is, I don't have my email because it's Irene underscore, capital L, underscore. And when they underline an email, then nobody sees my underscore.

So what is your email address?

Irene underscore L underscore Powell at MSN.com.

Okay. I'll make sure. And Rachel, just in case, I don't know if I have yours.

It is rachel.adler at gmail.com. And it's R-A-C-H-E-L. And mine is...

I'll say it and then I'll spell it. It's cgregisnt at gmail.com. So it's C... G-R-E-G-I-S-N-T. See where it isn't. It used to be athome.com. And so it was kind of like my business email. And then they changed it. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to stick with it.

It's C-G-R-E-G-I-S-N-T. I-S-N-T. That's it.

See, Greg isn't.

No, no. Apostrophe used to be at home.

Yeah. Used to be see, Greg isn't at home.com. Oh, good. And then my at home provider changed everything to Gmail. And I'm like, oh, okay. Well, and it's good because it's not, although I wish it was a name, it'd be so much easier to tell service people what my email address is. But anyway.

Wait a minute. It's at something.com. Oh, at Gmail. Gmail.

I realize I've just said my email address online to anyone who listens to this recording, but that's okay.

All bets are off now.

Okay, so I think that's the work plan. Any other comments on the work plan before I close that out? All right. Well, thank you for your patience with that and really good discussion. I'm excited. I feel like I have some new energy. Okay, chair's report. I don't have anything to report other than I believe Patrick gave his presentation to the council. Staff reports. And I think that would give us... Do you have anything?

I was just going to say, just before I jump into the council, I'm going to be going to the agenda meeting on Friday. And I think we're all the way out in September now, but I can ask about the Historic Preservation Master Plan presentation. Oh, thank you. And if it's going to – I mean, chances are this meeting – well, maybe not. I was going to say it might happen in October before it gets presented to Council. Okay. It would be nice if it would happen that way. So let me check before talking. I think we were in September. Yeah, and so let me... Quick things. May have heard... There was commotion afterwards. It was the lion sculpture. Controversy of being an African lion versus a mountain lion. And the African lion apparently aligns better with the whole police thing. So it ended up being an African line in a sitting position, I think is what I remember. We did have some discussion of the quarterly climate. We had just a quarterly climate action plan implementation update from Angelica. There's some metrics available on the website if you're interested in looking at that. One of the questions that came up, which I thought was kind of interesting, is why are we charging so much for the EV chargers if we're trying to encourage people to get EVs? And it goes back to a Board of Public Utilities decision that was made, so I had a little bit of conversation today about that. I don't know if we'll be able to change that or not. The Inclusivity Board is asking for members. If you know people that might be good for that. Inclusivity. It's a new board. We had a task force. Yeah, it's like, well, we don't get to say diversity and equity and inclusion anymore, so we're saying inclusivity. I like that. It's really more about making Los Alamos more welcoming for pretty much everybody. We did approve a letter to be written about Chaco. This was at our previous meeting. And so that was sent out right before the deadline. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. That was Randy's doing. Santa Fe had done something similar, so he drafted that pretty much. We reviewed some changes to Chapter 16, mainly to Articles 2 and 4. I haven't really gotten into the meat of Chapter 16 yet, but that'll be coming up towards the end of the year. Actually, it'll be early next year after we finish the comprehensive plan.

Are these minor changes, or is it like the parking stuff for Chapter 16?

It's nothing like, oh, you're talking about what we're going to... So comprehensive plan will drive the meeting stuff for next year. And then maybe a little tweaking of these other ones. But these are pretty minor.

This is mostly focused on Article 5 of Chapter 16. Yeah. Just cleaning stuff up.

Well, it was 2 and 4 this time. No, it was 2 and 4 for this one. I think we did 5 already. I can't remember all the chapters there. Did talk a little bit about regional development. What else did I want to point out to you all? Those are pretty much the things that I had stuck little arrows next to. Are there anything y'all have a question about? And I'll keep an eye on things, especially... as we have agenda items coming up and making sure that you are involved in the things that I think are important.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

A lot of times, I mean, we're supposed to be thinking about trying to get our boards and commissions involved, so I'll keep that at the back of my mind.

Okay.

Thank you.

Next on the agenda is... Subcommittees, reports and updates, informational items. I think the only thing, I think it's important, I'm sure Rachel knows this, they're proposing changes to 36 CFR 800, which is Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act, which is how the federal law that anyone has to follow that is using federal funding or on a federal property. Advisory Council on Historic Preservation approved these rules to move forward and they're now with the Office of Regulatory, somebody, personal opinion, they got the National Historic Preservation Law. The big things are is they've changed what can be a historic property Ethnographic landscapes are no longer included. They change what is considered an adverse effect to a historic property. They've taken out setting, they've taken out cumulative effects, and they've taken out future effects. They've also removed the tribal historic preservation officers and the state historic preservation officers out of the process almost entirely. It's pretty much carte blanche to the federal agency to make all the decisions about what historic properties are and how they're affected. So it was really disheartening. We knew that they were kind of looking into it. I didn't expect, I guess naively, I didn't expect these larger changes. But if these rules go through, it is going to change how historic preservation is done in this country. So it'll be interesting to see the kind of flow down effect on... Any idea on the schedule on that? Yes, I actually have a graph. I don't know it in my head.

A lot of this stuff is happening really quickly.

Yes, this is happening very quickly. People learned about it on Monday. The vote was on Friday. I believe there's at least a 30-day comment period once this Office of Regulatory goes through. So we haven't hit that yet. It's still there. It has not hit the 30-day comment period yet. Yeah.

Purpose, I guess we don't know their purpose. Is this to save money?

It's to save money. It's to save time. It's to, oh, and they've removed public participation entirely. So no longer you.

It's basically to hold those over, you know, whatever they want to do. Yeah.

It's interesting because I had one presenter took it back to what they want to do is exactly why we have this law. Because of all the urban renewal in the 60s. And so they said you can't just go into a neighborhood and start bulldozing. Well, this would allow an agency to do that. So yeah, we'll see what that means. Fortunately, the state of New Mexico has very strong preservation laws. Unfortunately, they only hold water on state lands, but I do think that the majority of agencies and people working in the state try to use the state as kind of a bar to follow, kind of the best management. So hopefully, even if this goes through, there are really significant changes. So everyone in the community is kind of up in arms and it's taking a lot of air right now. If you're interested, the National Trust for Historic Preservation has a war room and a web page and talks about everything. And this affects the lab, your job. Yes, because everything we do, well, I shouldn't say everything. Federal law is the National Historic Preservation Act. There are two primary sections, one for federal lands, which is what the lab property is. You have to manage and identify your resources. And then there's Section 106, where you have to identify adverse effects by projects. So yeah, the lab does about 1,300 projects a year, and all of those we review under Section 106. But again, it's at the agency's discretion, and I think ideally, the laboratory does what we do. Even if the law has a lower bar, there's no reason not to meet the bar that we're meeting now. We're getting work done, and things are happening, so hopefully the Department of Energy will fill the same areas.

Also, I mean, New Mexico has a huge tribal community that will definitely make their voices heard if this in any way will affect their ancestral homelands. Okay. This is good. They shouldn't have to. No, they shouldn't.

They've been ignored at Bears Ears. What? They've been ignored at

national monuments so I mean yeah it'll be interesting to see what impacts the many comments that were sent in about Chaco yeah I'm not convinced that comments will change anything but at least they're out there in their documents well that's it right there you can't let that deter you from commenting so I will send out it won't The flow-down effects hopefully are slow, but who knows? It's kind of shocking to this community. All right, so not a happy update. Not an update nonetheless. No public comment. Okay, next meeting, future agenda items. I believe we should talk about what we talked about today, so I'm going to create a good... statement on that. We are going to talk about our 2026 work plan. It's a county or a goal to procure a cultural resources specialist or maybe it's to discuss the role of a cultural resources specialist. I'm sorry, Kristen, I know you're trying to write this down and I'm waffling.

You're good. I can always rewatch the video.

Oh, heavens no. Please don't. Yeah, so I think we'll revisit that. We will discuss our initial findings of the Certified Local Government, or CLG, program manual. And I will share what I find out from Danielle on the roles that the county is filling for that work. And I'll let Patrick know if he had anything else that he wants to discuss to reach out to you. Sounds good.

before they started remodeling the Oppenheimer House? Or is that completely...

I didn't hear anything about it. I mean, I'm a member of the Historical Society, so I learned about it through that.

But this board didn't have anything to do with it.

No, I came in April 2023, and I hadn't seen it. I was just wondering. But Todd often attends our meetings and is available for discussion after.

And we don't have anything to do with the trees around historical properties being taken down.

Oh, we can. I think anything that we would consider our heritage could be under our purview. We don't always have power, but we can help educate, we can support if there's somebody in the community that is concerned Georgia comes to us often about things that concern her and I think the most helpful thing is if a community member comes to us they have a way that we can help like Georgia came to us and said I'm really concerned about I can't remember which open space it was it was going to be planned and she said if you're concerned too here's the comment period's open please say something and so I did I went in personally and reviewed and I don't know if I would have taken the time had she not requested it. Also, somebody came and asked us about restoring the clock tower on the post office. Yes, I was reading about that. So we did all the research. We found all the points of contacts and then said, okay, if you can get an organization like the Historical Society to support you, here's how you do that. So we can do research like that and provide resources, and we can act personally is my understanding. more so yeah so whatever we want under our purview can be our purview but I agree I'm a landscape person I like I mean it's not just the Oppenheimer house it's the trees around it it's the neighborhood that it sits in it's the community that it engages so I think all of those things are appropriate to discuss or be concerned about I just hate to kill a healthy tree I know

It might fall down. Oh, well, maybe we ought to cut out all the trees because they might fall down.

I don't know. Preventative maintenance.

And that would be, you know, I don't know if I ever saw the results of that historic tree inventory.

Yeah, I made a note of that because I hadn't heard of it.

I think they were doing it in-house. I don't believe it was something that was contracted out, but I'd like to reach out to Corey to see.

I see them at Rover Park and White Rock. They're all like tagged with numbers. That might be part, I bet that's part of their process. Yeah, I see them, I'm like, I have no idea what the numbers mean and what the tag is for. But I wouldn't consider them historic trees, but I also know very little about the history of White Rock, just by living there.

They're what?

what did you say about the trees they're tagged they have metal tags like they're going to cut them down no like the tags are numbered like an inventory and maybe it was just a tree inventory and I just interpreted oh that would tell me about historic trees it may not have been called a historic tree inventory that's cool okay so again the next meeting and agenda item is the 2026 work plan goal about the role of a cultural resources specialist at the county where we're going to discuss a certified local government program manual research that we're all doing independently and then anything that I find out from Danielle any other future agenda items I think it's probably enough but if there was anything else that was burning okay Well, then I propose. I move to adjourn the meeting.

September 2nd? Is that the next date?

Yes. I should have said that. Next meeting. The next meeting is on September 2nd. Okay. Yes, I missed that, Irene. Thank you. So I move to adjourn the meeting. Second. Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Meeting's adjourned. Thank you all for your patience.

All these brilliant minds and you guys.

If I finish the travel.