City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay, it's 3 o'clock. It's 3 o'clock everybody. So, um, welcome everyone to the 2026 joint city council and CRA workshop. Is this the first year we've done this with the mics?

This is fancy. So, um, this meeting is being recorded and when it's green, it's hot. So, that's the most important thing to know for today. Um we're gonna have our joint workshop and uh it's scheduled to be from 3 to 5 I believe. Uh we have a lot to talk about and probably a lot of uh different thoughts and opinions and everything like that. I'm going to try to do my best to keep us uh inside the rails for this conversation. Obviously there's always a lot of followup that happens after this meeting. So, um, we will kind of have a robust discussion, but at the same time be cognizant of everyone's time. So, um, we're going to start off with introductions. So, just tell us your name, your role, and your favorite place to get coffee in Jacksonville Beach. And I'll start. I'm Chris Hoffman, mayor. Second term mayor. You can tell by my facial expressions if you're paying attention. And I have a different coffee shop for every different type of meeting, but currently my favorite is Cup of Job right in our downtown district. We'll go to Dan.

Hello everyone. I'm Dan Jansen and I'm mayor prom for Jacksonville Beach. That's vice mayor. That means anything that Chris doesn't want to do, I do. Um, and similar to Chris, uh, it kind of depends on who I'm meeting with and what I'm discussing, but as a general rule, my go-to place is Boxt Tail Coffee. I like it. My name is Sandy Golding. I'm on the city council. Uh, this is the start of my eighth year, I think, right? Eighth in last year. Um, I don't drink coffee,

but I do like chai tea and so I will go Oh. Um, shoot. Why am I drawing a blank? It's the place over near the pier. Um, the No, it's uh I'm drawing blank. Starbucks? No, please don't say Starbucks. No, it's over there where the where um Yes, Delome. Yeah, that's it. Thank you.

Heather Ireland, planning and development director. And today I got a toasted marshmallow latte from I also favorite place, Cup of Joe. Taylor Mob, CRA coordinator. Um depends on the day. I also don't drink coffee, but I am a chai latte for convenience and just a nice sit-down space, a cup of Joe, but I also really like Seiko. They also have a great chai latte.

Marcus Scampy CRA alternate. Um, and my favorite place is delic. Um, frankly, I hardly get out anymore. Seriously, I drive around, look at things, but I don't uh don't stop at coffee shops or restaurants anymore. Thank you. U Megan Edwards. Um, I am on the CRA and I've been on it for a couple of years now. Um, I'm trying to quit coffee. Um, I would say my favorite is Breezy Coffee right there on third.

Good afternoon everyone. I'm Gary Pel, uh, chair of the CRA, and I guess the place that I've gone to recently that's been enjoyable is the southern grounds that opened up, um, down at roughly 3rd Street and 25th Avenue South.

Kevin Myers, uh, CRA, second year, and recently, um, appointed vice chair. Um, I think if I have to pick, so I'm a huge coffee fan. It's I'm probably torn between Breezy, uh, and I I am partial to Bold Bean as well. Um, most because I go there and study math, nerd stuff, so I like it for that reason. Ron Whittington, CRA, Starbucks, though it keeps me awake too much. Usually Seattle's best at home. Uh Sydney Telcott. Um I am this is my second year as a alternate on the CRA and um I love uh Round Bird because one I can walk there from my house and then also um Taylor and Sandy the Try is amazing. Highly recommend. Thank you.

Good afternoon. I'm Bruce Wowers. Uh it's my second year on the city council and I too enjoy a cup of Joe. Thank you. Bill Morning City Council zip fizz. I don't drink coffee. Um, whatever other version of it I can find, but no coffee.

It's got If it's got caffeine in it and it's not coffee, I'm okay with it. Love the smell. Don't like the taste. Well, I hear good things about chai. Might want to try it. Don't like tea. Um, and I understand uh, Councilman Sutton should be joining us. I'm not sure about John. What? Okay. So, they'll be joining us and we'll put them on the spot, but I'll make up an an embarrassing question and tell them that you guys all can run around the room and just introduce the staff that are here. I think everybody's probably known to you guys, but just to you can tell us your favorite coffee, too, if you want to.

honesty. Joey Lynn,

it's good stuff. Okay, here comes Councilman Sutton. Uh, the icebreaker question is, "What is your go-to karaoke song?" Just kidding. Where's your favorite place to get a cup of coffee in Jack's speech? Another good answer. All right. Well, you guys hit all the highlights.

The power ballad. That's Greg's go-to. Okay. So, thank you guys for indulging me in the little icebreaker. Um, I fun conversation starter. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to staff and we're going to hear about boardwalk activation. All right, let's jump in. So, at the CRA meeting we had last week, uh, we brought to them just some framework for some general ideas on getting the boardwalk activated. Um, as I'm sure most of you know, I'll refresh your memory. This boardwalk ordinance hasn't been touched since the 40s. Um, so it's it's time we kind of reopen this one. And what we would like to do is something very similar to what we did with outdoor dining where it's a couple year pilot program, two years, five years, whatever is deemed appropriate after conversation um to test out the activation and to test out the types of uses. Um, and then that kind of gives wiggle room just like with the outdoor dining that if things were to not work out the way we anticipate, we have the flexibility to make those changes. Um, with the boardwalk activation, the businesses impacted are listed on the screen. And by impacted, forgive me, that was the best word I could use at the time of this PowerPoint. I feel like impacted usually has such a negative connotation. That's not how this is meant at all. These are the buildings that are immediately adjacent to the boardwalk. So, if we're going to activate it, uh, what we've kind of discussed internally and then with the CRA would be any section of the boardwalk located behind these businesses could in theory be activated for some type of use, but it would have to be an application with the business owner on the application as well because the last thing we want to do is, you know, Kasa Marina's having a beautiful wedding and they walk out their back doors and there's 10 craft tents. I mean, so we want to make sure we're respectful of those businesses. Um, and then on the next slide, we've got kind of the city zone and everything in red

is basically fair game for someone wanting to apply for a permit in theory if we were to do this. Uh, it's about 480 ft of space. Typically, I talked to parks and wreck. The largest tents we see for vendors are usually 10 x10 tents within this space. Not saying it would ever be this many, but we could very comfortably and easily get 30 10 by10s with ample walking room. And so that's kind of a little bit about the space use. And then some of the uses that we're proposing would be the pop-up retail and vendors. Um mobile food vendors, but not necessarily a food truck, more like someone selling ice cream, someone's selling sandwiches. Uh nothing that's going to require cooking actually on the boardwalk. um fitness and wellness classes, some you know buskers, live popup performances, um community art, and some seasonal activities, farmers markets, different things like that. So, I'm happy to answer questions and kind of get feedback on some of the uses we're proposing and hopefully get some direction. Anybody thoughts? I know that uh the CRA had a robust discussion about this in their last workshop. And by the way, I should have said um also John Wagner has just joined us. John, do you have a favorite go-to coffee place in Jack Beach that was our

breezies? Good one. Um to step back, this the purpose of this meeting is for us to kind of touch base, make sure that the council and the CRA are on the same page in terms of the the ongoing projects as well as kind of the near and long-term direction of the CRA. So, um, so some of this is the first time we're hearing the details where I know you guys have already heard the details. So, um, if you guys, uh, can we'll just kind of go through it from there, but um, but just so council knows, there was a robust robust discussion on this. I think this is a really great direction and it seems to be um, very thoughtfully done u with a lot of opportunity to kind of see what's out there. So, I I think it'll be interesting um to see who pops up and and who utilizes this opportunity. Ju

just a quick question for staff. Um I guess I'm curious as to why the only area that's chosen is along I guess uh Leam Plaza. This is that stretch along Laam. What about the uh stretch along the pure parking lot? Wouldn't that be a possibility? Also,

it could be. Yes. Um You know, it's one of those things we're still looking at the details of that because the boardwalk just past the pier does narrow significantly. Um, and being as the pier technically has a business associated with it between Spring Hill, what's happening on the pier and then CASA, um, we would just have to be creative and careful because the last thing we want to do is really kind of jam up that area because the parking lot is right there adjacent to it. Um, but it it could yes be um a zone.

Would would I be out of line of asking somebody from the CRA just kind of give us a summation a brief summation of that robust discussion how it ended up or your viewpoint on the CRA's outlook? I'll go to I'll go to the chair Gary. Yeah. Can we get a just a a brief summation of how that discussion uh went with the CRA for the benefit of everybody in the room?

Well, I think the discussion went very well. We've looked at this for a while and uh proposed different options and uh concepts which staff took back and then correlated a little bit better and uh came up with a more workable plan. along with that um they started to identify uses and things based on successes in other communities and so forth. Um when we went back and looked at the latest information that we were given, I think everybody was very much in favor of of all of the uses that have been identified. I didn't didn't hear any real objections to them. And uh the one comment that I had is there was talk about public amenities and enhancements as part of the program. And uh from my perspective, I would look at that as something that maybe the CRA needs to undertake to participate in making this a success. That there are some funding and things from the CRA that would help um provide for public seating and uh shades and wayfinding signage and so forth, which was also identified in the information provided to us by staff, which was very uh you know, very well done. And I, you know, I'll just leave it at that. And if if I misspoke, please let one of the board members speak up and let me know if um there's some different opinions. But uh hopefully that answers your question.

Yeah, I I would agree. I think as a whole um the CRA um is in support of this. I think we were beyond in support of it. I think we were excited for the possibilities of it. Um, I don't think any of us said that we have to determine exactly, you know, what it looks like. We talked about some of the temporary popup activations, talked about insurance, talked about the booking process, you know, what does that all look like? Um, and maybe doing some test runs and getting some feedback and going, did this make sense? Did this work? Um, I think there was a proposal at some point, uh, you know, farmer one of existing events that are out there. I think farmers market on Penman or, you know, whatever, uh, already that already have a strong following. um having them see if they invite them to use the space, give us feedback. Um I think just as it is in every project we do out here, shade, shade, shade, shade, shade. Um so I think that's if we want people to actually walk out there because just looking at it, it just looks hot, you know, even looking at this at this image. Um but overall, yeah, I think that we were um overall in support, excited about what what could go there um and and looking forward to it. So, I have um a a question or a suggestion and then just a a net to to throw out. Um so, I I love the I so I love this concept. I think it's great and I I think we really need to figure out how we activate this and and really get make it a great experience for folks. I would encourage us, you know, as the discussion that we just had, we have folks that run the farmers market. We have folks that um spend a lot of time doing things like the popups, you know, things that are not big formal um big infrastructure efforts. And and I would encourage us to maybe do and by the way, we we we suggest this a lot, but we don't do it a lot. Um, I would I would really suggest that we meet with some of those folks, maybe do a focus group, share with what what we're doing

and get their feedback because because they live and breathe it and think about it every day and you guys have a million things on your plate. Um, it just might be a nice way to get a different perspective or some additional feedback. So, I really would encourage uh us to to do that. And then this is might be a little odd and I may actually misunder may have a misunderstanding. So, if I do, please correct me. But the only in reading everything about it, I loved it all. The only thing that I found to be a little odd was the concept of baskers. So I I I you know, having people out there soliciting money for music while they're playing um is a little bit of a different image than having musicians out there. Um, it to me it it starts to trend towards panhandling

and and I don't know that that's the wholesome family image that we're trying to go after with this. So, and I know it's a net and I that makes sense, but it just was one of those little Yeah, definitely wasn't the intent. So, seeing it from that, that's a great perspective that we hadn't thought of. So, I mean, I don't think this that's not staff's intent and I'm sure it's probably not anyone on the CRA's intention either would be my guess. So I think we could um easily remove that word and expand on what musician what that constitutes and kind of have some parameters. And the only reason I even know that is because I had no idea what that word meant to Google. So yeah. So being very honest, I have no clue.

Yeah. And we um on your first point, we've been working in coordination with Parks and Rec because they do have such great relationships with all of our event producers. Um, so we'll continue to work with them, but having conversations with some of our popup markets and those things, those are in the works. Um, and they have asked often when they can use the boardwalk and I believe even the deputy clerk has also gotten phone calls of people asking if they can sell t-shirts or lemonade or different things on the boardwalk. So, we'll kind of look at those that have expressed interest and reach back out to them for input. That'd be great. I really appreciate that. Yeah, to your point, I think there was an issue that occurred that was similar to that in St. Augustine. Just want to read your headlines. Kind of lead you down that road a little bit. Okay.

One thing that did come up was that um who's going to handle all this and Taylor said she would, just so you know, with help pretty important as to who's who's making the decisions of who who gets to do what where. So, well, that and the other point that came up was public input. And I think we agreed that we really should have a completed plan before we consider advertising it to the public because if the public were filling up this room to discuss this right now, I don't think we would be going in anything near a linear direction. So th those were two of the thoughts. Thank you.

Um to Mr. Mosu's point, uh, I would probably take in the applications much like I did with outdoor dining, but our committee internally that would then review these, uh, we've talked and it would likely be the same committee that reviews event applications. We're actually going to call it um, a boardwalk event application. So, we're going to kind of mirror that process, have um, parks, PD, fire planning, myself kind of have everyone in one room to all sit down and look at those at the same time. Uh and then that group will be just like it is with events that will determine if they're eligible upon the criteria and then we'll go from there. Uh and in the actual application, it's not in this, but we've got um they have to give us a day of point of contact, phone number, who will be there if something goes wrong, if something needs to be shut down, you know, who needs to step in, if they need help. Um based on the size that they're estimating, will there need to be additional security measures in place? And so we'll make sure all of those boxes are checked. And just to add in a similar theme, um I think to uh Thad's point, you know, security and who's who will ensure everyone's safety was also, you know, a consideration and um you know, what I think um one of the points that the vice chair brought up in our meeting last week was um what what will success look like? Like how will we know that this works? Is it going to be uh you know foot traffic? Is it going to be surveys? And so I think that's also something for us to keep in mind.

Sydney, thank you. I'll pile on that point just the just a bit. I think there's the the foundation of the definition of success comments that I made were really centered around the how do we know it's working, right? How do we know we're actually meeting the mark? And I think that mark thought about this a little bit more since our last conversation. That mark probably looks a little bit different for the community. the mark looks different for the local businesses that you know are adjacent to the boardwalk. The mark may look different for the vendors and or the people that are setting up to support the activation. So, I just want us to be thoughtful about that um and intentional about that because um I think the the last goal of this effort would be to do something that doesn't work and watch it fizzle yet again.

Right. Well, I also think that there's a huge component that has to do with communications, Jacob and Jess, that that that's going to be obviously coming into play here. And I think that they will be able to kind of measure have a measuring stick for some successes um just based on their end as well. And we just have to make sure we get them plugged in. So, let me interrupt you really quick just for speaking and I'm really glad that everybody wants to talk. If you're ready to speak, just turn on your light and let me call on you because Bill Horn has been sitting over here for like 20 minutes with this light on. Were you finished with your thought? I am. Okay, Bill.

I am happy. I I am not a fancy person. I'm just happy to be here. So, I'll wait all day. Um I just there were a couple of things Miss Edwards mentioned. um shade. And I want to really kind of emphasize that to the CRA and the city staff that understanding that it's 144 degrees out there at 9 in the morning most of the time. Um the reason that the majority of the people show up at the beach at 4:00 or 5 in the afternoon is because that when it gets tolerable. So, if we do want to activate this area, if we do want people to come out there, uh, and especially because the surface is concrete, I mean, it's a little easier on the beach when you've got some sand, but when you're radiating heat from below, if we have some some shade, that is an absolute um that's going to be huge to try and do this to get to where we want to be. Um, and after looking at this, I I I totally agree. I love the ideas. There's one thing that I had some reservation about which was the fitness and wellness classes. Um that the boardwalk is is technically a lane of travel and the idea of stationary groups, vendors, things like that, I think that's reasonable. But if you get a small group or even a medium-sized group that starts to because they're going to start spreading out, there's movement involved. um they're they're going to take up I think more space than we're anticipating. And I I'm not saying that this is like a never issue, but I would say that we start with some of the lowerhanging fruit vendors, musicians, things like that because understand that people are going to be this not everybody's coming out there for that. Some people are just trying to go end to end. They might be in the hotel walking up in on the boardwalk because that's where they want to get some exercise. Um, and the other thing in the back of my mind is I think about people out there exercising on the boardwalk purposefully in a group and then the first person falls and sprains her ankle and then who he gets responsibility for that. Or heaven forbid there's a tiny crack, you know, the you know, we we don't have a flat

surface out there. We have a pattern surface. Um, you get somebody out there who is not the most um agile and I just that that that's kind of that puts the hairs on the back of my neck a little bit. So, that's a thought for down the road. That's all I had to say before we go on to the next. Um, I know you guys mentioned insurance and Megan mentioned it today. If I recall correctly, it's going to look like event insurance requirements for a a festival. We have it written right now. Yeah, we're following the same liability insurance. I don't think anybody on this list is going to be able. Isn't it like $2 million liability? It's

Yes. So, a musician, I mean, that's going to knock out almost everyone other than the special events that we already have in place that already carry that because, you know, the 904 pop-up or whatever. So, yeah.

So, this all might be a moot point. We've had a couple of conversations that have just even occurred since the CRA meeting about little things like that and looking at it from how is it going to work best? You know, do we amend the ordinance and kind of blanket allow X, Y, and Z uses? and then on our end have to kind of look at okay what's going to be the most appropriate way from regulatory protecting the city protecting the vendors making sure everyone is able to operate in a safe space. Um it's going to have to look a little bit different. So we'll continue to work with our events people. We will work with our city attorney and try to figure out what is the most appropriate way to go about that. It may be that um we work with some event promoters and they sponsor, you know, like we do now. We have pop-ups, we have um farmers markets, and those are an event sponsor, and then the vendors are under that person. So, they're all covered under that promoter's liability insurance. Um it may look like that. So, we're still working out the details. I I think we have real opportunity. I think you guys all see this to activate this boardwalk in a positive way. The restaurant um Seismor that's there now. I mean, there's just lot if you sit there, there's great foot traffic. There's not great foot traffic, but there's a lot of great foot traffic. So, I think that there's an opportunity to have I mean, in my vision, it's one or two vendors during, you know, in the space of a couple blocks, not necessarily I do want us also to consider letting 904 popup come around the corner, things like that. Um, but I'm thinking of like a Tuesday in July and I just want to walk out and get get an ice cream cone or whatever. So if that's that's my vision that this insurance requirement is not going to allow that vision. So I think we need to start working towards that. I don't want to stop working on this because I think that there's opportunity here, but I think to get it to a smaller

opportunity, I think we're going to need to to do a little to come at it a little bit differently. And I don't know what that looks like. Um John um and just with all the conversation I'm reliving other conversations we've had that are related to this and was kind of thinking through because of the picture that discussion we had around First Street and the different approaches for addressing first street and I Taylor I think you actually brought it if I remember correctly you may have brought it up but was um when we looked at activating kind of the boardwalk the potential of also activating the end caps

and and I know I late. So, I apologize if you guys have already talked about it, but I didn't see it kind of reflected in the or I don't remember it being reflected in the document. Is that something we would also consider because there's not a ton of parking there, but it would be important to councelor Horn and and Miss Edwards comments earlier around shade. You know, those are areas that just naturally are a little more protective. They have some trees. They have and so I just was curious if we if you guys what your thoughts were around that.

So, we definitely have thoughts around that. Um yeah, I mean tr I mean truly yes. You know I think everything unfortunately and this is such a irritating answer but it's also circumstantial depending on which endzone what you you know it like the peer endzone obviously that that's not going to work. um the one by Margaritavville uh maybe maybe not you know so I think that's more on a case by case and then because of the way this particular ordinance is written this just governs the boardwalk only and so that's why at least in this proposal you're not really seeing much about the end zones because those aren't regulated right now like the boardwalk is um those would fall almost in a middle of the road category that would involve you know public works that would involve planning and then honestly probably events as well just because you're going to vendors or people there activating that space. Um, so it's definitely not something that's a dead point. I mean, it's definitely still active. It's just not in this.

Could it be in this? I think we I would suggest that we get something across the finish line before we add like let's get this. Yeah. I mean, I think they're two together first. They're kind of siblings. They're not twins, you I think this we can push across the finish line without have one or the other doesn't have to be fully worked out just because right now trying to get the boardwalk stuff activated is just trying to truly amend that ordinance with the appropriate intention. We've got a draft done but we needed to figure out what the intent was. Um but that doesn't mean that simultaneously we can't start having internal conversations again about the end zones as well. So I think it's two separate projects but I mean I think it's definitely worth having the conversation.

Yeah, I think it just depends on what we're actually trying to implement. implement, you know, a couple of people or an ice cream on a Tuesday, right? That's one vision. By the way, was not mine at all. Um, you know, mine was actually much more of an of an activation event over the the whole geography. And and so if we were if that is the is that is our end goal, then I I would be much more in support of us connecting those two kids, not dejoining them. Um, if if if what the mayor said is the endgame, then then absolutely. I 100% agree. I just I just had a different mental model.

And to be to be clear, I'm not saying that's the endgame. I'm saying that's one thing that I would like to see, but I also would like to see that more full scale application. Yeah. Uh Marcus, you turned your light off. Did you have something? I was going to let the board, the city council go first and then I'll

You don't have to. It's your turn. Go for it. It's our goal as a CRA for the business development to help with the economics of the city. So the goal of everything that we're trying to do is to drive foot traffic and increase sales. And so the object then is for us to be able to increase those types of parameters. So therefore then we can increase business revenue which therefore increases taxes and therefore then we get more money. So with the process of this we can do some different metrics. We can see that through sales tax increases in the way that we can operate and see whether or not that this has been a spike or bump in the in the protoype that we're trying to develop. Um, but you know, if we're trying to figure out a way, the best way to incorporate other businesses and to help build the community to draw business revenue and to make it more of a desirable location for people that want to come out to the beaches to enjoy. And so this is just one of those ways that we can expand that to make it more beneficial not only for the people that live here but also to draw in others.

Very nicely put, Sandy. I wanted to build on some of the things that were said. I totally agree with Mr. Mosley. We really need to make sure we have a plan, a well- definfined plan. And I would like to see us like the sidewalk dining start small

and then build off of that. Um, and I don't know, maybe that means that we don't do like the mayor said, we don't do the street ends or or the end zones or whatever initially, but eventually maybe we do that. I I had the same thoughts that Mr. Horn had about the exercise. To me, um, the Seawatt Pavilion and the Laam Plazalons are where I think are the best places to do the exercise classes and things like that because I just think that they're safer, they're more welcoming, they're not going to be as hot, you know, and so I would like to see us drive that type of activity to those areas. And then the other thing I want to mention, how many of you have been to Key West and been to Mallerie Square before? So, I just want to say that my humble opinion is that's a fun place to go, but I don't want us to go in that direction. And so, I just I mean maybe maybe someday we do. I don't know. But for me, I when I saw entertainment, you know, I started thinking about on in Mallerie Square, the guy that's the tightroppe walking guy and then there's another guy that has cats that does does like axe and all, you know, jumps through hoops and things like that. So, I'm like I Yeah, I just want to Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The cats through the flaming hoops. So, I mean, I guess I just I wanted to measure everyone's um temperature on that because I'm thinking that we want something that's not Mallerie Square. Is that correct?

I'd never seen it. What is it? It's a very um It's a vibrant circus with open container and lots of It's It's Key West. Um were you finished with your comments? Uh yes, Heather, you have your light on.

Yes. Yes. Thank you, mayor. Uh, I was just Sandy kind of answered the question. I was going to respond to Councilman Wagner's point about the street ends. You know, staff is really looking at this as a as a phased opportunity. Like you just said, we started with First Avenue North for outdoor dining. It was working great. We've expanded it. So, I think that we should look at this in the same way. If the boardwalk activation is successful, we consider expanding it out further into the, you know, into the downtown area, possibly into the street ends, possibly other areas. So, that was all. Thank you, Dan.

Yeah, real quick. Um, Chief Smith, you don't get off the hook that easily. Okay, buddy. I love you, though. You know, um, as far as Cape officers are concerned, do you think we're sufficiently staffed with this kind of growth or increase, or is this something that we're going to have to look at in the future as far as maybe adding an officer or two? What do you What do you project with? I'm okay. The only thing I would ask a

long area like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And I would I would just say that um there's always those unintended consequences when we start something like that. If that pops up, I would encourage you and your staff to just let us know. You know, if there's something that's existing and that requires our attention from a public safety standpoint,

there is always consequences when you build it.

Taylor Um I just wanted to add a kind of point on that same note. Uh one of the things in the event policy that we would also follow with this is how right now we don't allow special events on a holiday weekend. Um so those would be things as well. You know we're not trying to have Fourth of July weekend and then have 40 tents set up on the boardwalk as well. So that's something we're very aware of and we the last thing we want to do is cause more issues. Um so we want to be as supportive as we can and make sure we're not uh causing too much chaos. Bruce,

thank you. Thank you, mayor. And uh thank you, Dan, for your comments about unintended consequences. And um well, I'm just trying to understand in my mind when I we look at one, two, and three here for uh you know, semi-permanent business use and allowed use and so on. Was was this for the impacted businesses like where it says public seating areas, chairs, tables, and so forth? Are you talking about the city putting them out there or these businesses?

Yeah. So, I think the intent at least with this was to be a little bit open-ended to allow for if a business had the amount of space required where we still had enough access for emergency vehicles to operate. Um, and they could extend and set up tables, chairs, temporary uh things like that, then they would be able to. Um, if the city at some point wanted to put tables and chairs or shade structures out, this would also allow us to do the same. So, it could really be for for both. So, is the proposal as it stands, you're asking us to do it or you're not? Just so I can be clear in my mind.

Um, it may come a day where we come to the CRA and to the council to purchase tables and chairs. What I'm hearing actually would probably come sooner would be shade structures of some type. Um today at this stage know right now what we need is direction on what you guys are comfortable with us doing in a pilot program and then what uses you would be comfortable with allowing. So in theory if we update the ordinance and we do include you know seating and shade structures those would then afford us the opportunity to at a later date potentially come back before the CR council and asked to install those but it wouldn't um start anything right now. So, when you envision shade, are you talking about like awnings attached to the building or some kind of standalone shade? I'm just curious.

How like the thousand umbrellas, you know, you see, I'm just trying to figure out what this is.

To be fair, we're not sure. Um, we would have to see what would work because what may work, let's say, coming off the back of Seismores or Spring Hill Suites isn't going to work at Laam Plaza because there's not an existing structure to connect anything to. So, I think we would see mixed type of uses. Um, and I don't know right now exactly what that would look like. Um, again, I think those are going to be things that we would work with the CRA to kind of get a game plan together and almost treat it. I don't know for those of you that remember the site furnishings process when we did some of the site furnishings downtown kind of treat treating the process the same as that where we workshop it throw some ideas out we would involve parks and wreck because they are very familiar with installing shade structures and um out here another thing we're going to have to be really mindful of is the elements so this does not have any protection um my first thought was kind of like oh shade sails you know they're easy we can take them down in the event of a hurricane but what happens when we get to a Saturday and we get an unexpected severe thunderstorm and you've got wind gust. So, we're going to have to work really closely with parks to determine what's going to work and what's going to last.

So, let me just interrupt really quick. So, just to back up a little bit. Right now, the boardwalk in our ordinances does not really allow us to do anything. So, basically this what the ordinance will be is just to allow certain things. It's not necessarily going to be a green light on certain things, but to allow us to do shade, structure, seating, whatever, because right now we're not allowed at all. So, it doesn't mean we're going to jump right in and do all of that. It's just going to change it so that we can we can actually utilize our boardwalk push right now. We cannot. So, we are we've been talking about this for um more than 30 minutes. So, I'm going to let's do speed round and I think we had again another good robust discussion. So, um Bruce, did you have additional

to uh put Chief back on the spot here? Chief, if there were if we were to put out a bunch of benches on the boardwalk, would you think there might be any unintended consequences with the homeless people or other folks that may not be the best actors hanging out? But I like temporary temporary longederman because we've been there before 2008. current sites.

Thanks, Chief. Yeah, because I often as we see at the bus stop out here, you see people sleeping there or camping out there. It's not a good We're still getting close to people. So, imagine now that everybody sit Gary, sorry, Gary.

Some of this has already been touched on uh a little bit, but uh just to reiterate, this is a pilot program. That's what we're looking for. We had taken a look at um the total picture or talked about a little bit which is what is first street, what is the boardwalk, what are the end zones in certain segments and we made the decision. We staff uh assisted us in making the decision that right now the first thing we need to look at is the boardwalk because it takes ordinance changes to do that. But we understand that uh First Street is very vital to all of this. And as soon as we can get the pilot program underway, we need to refocus and take a look at First Street and the end zones and how we bring all of that together into a unified effort to get the um the the pedestrian folks downtown and and walking the streets uh for the foot traffic that's needed for the restaurants and also retail. So, thank you.

Thanks, Gary. Heather, thank you.

Final Oh, lucky me. Um, I just wanted to expand on Taylor's response to Councilman Wowers. You know, I think first and foremost, this is a emergency vehicle lane that we need to keep that in mind no matter what we do. The the emergency service vehicles need to be able to access the boardwalk. So, whatever we're doing needs to not impede that. Um, but the way we envision this, it could be a city sponsored event or it could be a privately sponsored event. So, let's say one of the hotels wants to do a little popup for their their guests and people outside the city uh or outside of their their hotel. I think there's kind of two ways to look at it operationally. Once we know what we want to do, then we can figure out how exactly we're going to do that. Um in Daytona, I visited a long time ago where they and I watched this happen. They have their little amphitheater. I'm sorry, not Daytona, Hollywood Beach, and city employees came out and put out a carpet and a bunch of chairs for a band that was playing at their amphitheater. when the concert was over, they came and took everything away. So, there was no opportunity for people to loiter after the event, linger after the event, take chairs somewhere else. Um, and it was really neat to watch that it was like Flight of the Bumblebee. They were putting them out and taking them away as soon as it was done. Um, so I can see that kind of thing kind of happening where we are providing maybe temporary shade and temporary seating for a approved and scheduled planned event. Um, some things may be permanent, some things will be more temporary in nature, but we are considering kind of all different levels of of operations.

Thank you, Taylor. The real final word. Well, no, I just wanted to kind of recap because I've heard everyone's comments and kind of some of the resounding things that I've heard is um I think everyone was okay and comfortable with removing buskers, street performer type uses, removing fitness classes, keeping those I think to your point it makes sense to keep them in the grassy areas. it's softer, it's more comfortable, and then also starting to figure out opportunities where we can increase uh shade. And th those were kind of the big couple of things that we needed to go in here and change um before we bring a draft ordinance to you guys. I just want to make sure I had my marching orders right. I think so. Okay.

Thank you. What What talk show was that where the person would say a final thought, final word, something like that? Sally, Jesse, Raphael, anybody remember? Okay, Taylor, bring us on to the downtown enhancements item, please.

Yes. All right. So, this has been um an ongoing item where I I will say uh kudos to our code enforcement team here. Uh they educated me because, you know, we would be in a CRA meeting and we would be talking about something. I would see something and it maybe wasn't aesthetically very pleasing to look at. um and code enforcement, you know, had to educate me and say, "Hey, look, just because it doesn't match the aesthetics that you want does not mean they're in violation. I can't force someone to comply with something when they're not violating anything." Um, so that was something we talked about at the CRA meeting and we kind of talked about do we want to elevate code enforcement standards? Do we want to implement a new process of enforcing the code in the downtown? And kind of really all of these big picture items. And then one thing that we really honed in on that we felt could be a good kind of first step to start talking about um construction fencing, chain link fencing in the downtown. It's kind of been an eyesore. It's kind of been a problem. I am not trying to pick on the two on the screen. They're just the two most recent ones that are still out there. Um they're fine. They're chain link fences. I mean, they're they don't look great. Um but they're not doing anything wrong. They're doing what they're supposed to do. They're keeping people from entering and if there was equipment in there, they would be keeping people out and off of the equipment. So, that is where we're at currently. And the reason I put that specific photo is because those are both in compliance with code enforcement. Um, the next slide is a little bit what the CRA has been talking about and what we may want to see. Jody, I'm sorry. I just saw that the remote is right in front of me. Sorry. Sorry about that. Um, so the CRA has talked about requiring fence screening. What that requirement may look like could be a very wide array of things. So in that very top left corner that basic green plain screening that is your basic bottom dollar most

inexpensive option going all the way over you know to the right hand side you also see some that have full renderings and projects and information and go to this website scan this QR code. And so after the meeting with CRA kind of came back in and I called um parks and said you know okay look what what are we even looking at with these numbers? Well actually that's not true. First I called Cape and I was like do you have an issue if we start screening chain link fence is that going to affect you guys and you know we've done it before um for safety reasons. Public works chimed in and was like you know look if we're putting screens on these are going to need to be better. the fences are going to need to be fixed to the ground better because if again we get a storm, heavy winds, you've got this uh kind of wrapping around them, these become massive projectiles. Um Kate said, you know, cutting the slats in them. You'll see them sometimes where it's just, you know, like a semicircle. And so kind of checked all the boxes internally, um four to five linear foot to five dollars per linear foot is your most basic screening on something like these. more visually appealing. You can get up to $30 per linear foot. Um, so I think where, you know, we like the idea in theory, um, we would really need to look at options because, for example, Dolphin Depot is approximately about,00 linear feet, even if they were in the mid-range of that really aesthetic, you know, pretty pictures, you're looking at $22,000 just for them to wrap their fence. Um, so we really wanted to bring this to everyone at the table. You know, what do you visualize? Do you even think this is a problem that needs addressing? Is this big enough of an issue to cover and if so, what does that look like as far as changing the code for the central business district? And then the CRA brought up, you know, do we establish a new grant program to help cover some of these costs? And, you know, what does that look like? Because it would in theory still need to be a reimburseable grant to make sure that when they're

putting these up, they're putting it up to our standard. So businesses would still have to fork out the money upfront. Um and so we just really wanted to get some feedback.

I am very glad you guys are looking at this. I think it's a great idea. Um long overdue and somebody tell Ken Marsh that we're finally discussing this um with purpose. Um I don't think I mean the Dolphin Depot project has been sitting there as an empty lot for more than a decade. So, you divide 22,000 by they they own a city block in downtown Jacksonville Beach. $22,000 is not going to be a huge impediment to them. Um, I do think and I think you guys pointed this out too, we need to incentivize the behavior that we want. Um, and I think that having a grant program to help reimburse that and maybe it's something you can just add to the facade grant because it certainly is facade related. Um my question, the first thing that popped into my mind and maybe it's just because I know Heather too well is um does this run a foul of the sign our sign code is this if they're advertising their business or future projects etc.

possibly. We we'll just have to be mindful of that so there's not off-site commercial advertising that could be a violation. So I know I've seen this in other cities. uh Fort Myers, Gary, you probably remember there was a construction site right near the the conference venue and it had a beautiful image of what was going to go there. I just wrote down, you know, uh project rendering every 15 feet or something like that. So, pick a color, blue background, and then the I mean, Dolphin Depot has renderings of what their project is supposed to look like whenever it gets built. So, um we just have to be mindful of what would be considered off-site advertising and what wouldn't. Y I didn't see whose light came on first, but I'll go to John. Oh, sorry, Gary. Thank you, John.

Just to um bring to focus a little bit more. You've got two issues here that you've got to take a look at. One is uh existing conditions. And then the other is what happens in new construction. Um, there's an example down First Street between 7th Avenue South and 8th Avenue South where recently a structure was torn down, a fence put up and the silk fencing put up uh, adjacent to it. Looks good. I mean, it it really made a significant difference. I'm not sure I would use black, but that's what they ended up using down there. I think um just doing something simple on some of these larger empty sites that we have right now, particularly the one directly north of uh the pavilion, uh would make a tremendous difference. It it's just it just takes away from the downtown image significantly for what we're trying to accomplish. And doing something simple as the green fencing, I think, would help quite a bit. Um, I'm fully in support of this. I, you know, I've been pushing this uh for for quite some time and I'd really like to see us move forward with that. I feel that it's not, you know, since some of these fences have already been up that there's an effort that needs to be made on the part of us, the city to to help in this situation. And putting together a grant or something along those lines, I think, is very appropriate. and uh money very well spent for the community.

Thank you, Gary. John,

so um I want to start by saying I absolutely agree with what's been said and I I really like this discussion and this idea, but but it's my second favorite idea on how to handle these properties. So, um, my favorite idea is one we've all talked about or some of us have talked about in the past, which is, um, working with property owners to take over these green spaces, turn them into functional green spaces. Um, you know, do one of those things where they lease the property to the city. We run some, you know, some watering in there and throw a couple benches and have and have a usable green space for folks. And um so while I'm fully supportive of this conversation, everything here, I'm not I don't want to detract from that, I also don't want it to um to make it so that the idea of us turning some of these into functional green spaces so that people can use them goes away or that we no longer have that dialogue

because I I do think that's a particularly like the one you the example was just used the north of the the amphitheater. I mean, that'd be fabulous to be able to do something there, even if it was just green grass. Sydney,

uh, yeah. Um, just going back to, uh, the previous point around the content of the enclosures, I think there's also an opportunity perhaps to fold this into in addition to the facade grant program, our public art program. like this is I mean it would be amazing if you know depending on the existing programming and intent of the lots you know maybe they're really open and you know they could let us we could do whatever um art the community wants so just another idea Bill like a mural

a yeah a mural like perhaps we could commission artists to um or graphic designers even to design uh the graphic that goes on there. Something that's Jack Speech related or um advertising for the city, you know, something like that. Yeah. Bill,

I'll just I'll just say I may not be the might be the only one that has this opinion. I don't think a facade grant in this scenario is appropriate. I don't think citizen money should be spent on people who are not developing their property downtown. Um, if you have a piece of property in that area and you want to use it and turn it into a usable business that then generates tax revenue, that's great. But for you to sit there on a piece of property that is increasing in value over time and then now the citizens are going to pay to to improve it for you, that that's my personal opinion. That's one thing. Um, I want to wholeheartedly second what uh, Councelor Wagner was saying about that and that's part of the reason I hit my button. Um, I would We talked about activating the downtown. We talked about activating the boardwalk. We talked about trying to get people in this area. We have to have an area for people to come to. Okay. And if you pull up the Can you go back to the previous um previous slide? Uh yeah. So one more. Yeah. So right there. So the one on the right side, you know, it is it's it's blocked off. It's chain linked from one side to the other. So, from First Street to the to the boardwalk, it is blocked off, but at least you can see. You can see from one area to the other. And if you cover that up, it's just going to be a block. It's going to be a barrier, and it's going to kind of isolate your view. And again, I'm, you know, I'm not the most artistic of people, so take that with a grain of salt. That's just my observation. If that we block that off. Now granted, I I if you if it's a big pile of dirt, which we have some areas around here that are that yes, that at least I I know I've seen the property owner there. He actually put in some irrigation and put some stuff down and it's actually it's actually grass. I think that was done only just to prevent the sand from going everywhere because it's right on the ocean front and sand was going all over the place. I do my bike around seeing sand everywhere. Um, but I would like to

see more green spaces. That will bring in people. That will bring in, you know, that will bring in more traffic. That will bring in, of course, we do have the issues with, you know, the unhoused uh persons coming around. Um, but I I that's what I would like to see, Megan.

Uh, yes. along the the same vein um as Councilman Horn, I kind of tend to agree, right? We we purchased this property subject to the to the current laws and the conditions and the ordinance, right? They do have an obligation to maintain the properties. Um I think that maybe the conversation overall, right, is a our interim fix um until we can figure out, you know, how do right the million-dollar question, how do we encourage development or investment here? What do we how do we incentivize them to do something and buy into the beach life and what we're trying to do, right? We have restaurant groups that have come in, hotels. So, somebody's seeing the value, right? There's some there's something here. Um, but what do we do in the interim? I I totally hear what you're saying. I had typed here as Sydney was talking if we're going to be doing some sort of grant program. What if the the screening is it has to be one type of screening and it's Jack's speech and visit our website for all the stuff that we have going on. Look at the great farmers market we're going to have on our boardwalk. We're going to tie this all together. Um but I think you know if we're gonna say well if we are gonna in the interim say all right well we are going to subsidize partial comp you know their compliance right and we want it to aesthetically look a certain kind of way maybe let's make it look uniform all the way around and let's maybe get something out of it too right maybe get some advertisement or something for the beach uh when we were at our uh meeting last week it might have been that made a a comment of you know we have people come here for weddings and they walk out and bof you know here's here's this maybe at least if we have some information about the city or look what's coming not just look at our construction zone that we have over here that we're trying to get somebody to build on. Um so I think it's a lot of I think this is just kind of our interim. What are we going to do in our interim until right we can answer the big question.

Dan. Yeah. Um I know we need to land this plane but and so I'm just going to throw some uh food for thought out there. I love your idea John. However, I also think that there's probably a liability aspect to that as far as these property owners are concerned and that's probably why they fence it off like we don't want you going on our property because if you hurt yourself then we're liable.

Sure.

Right. Uh but yeah, of course. And then but sure, but if anybody gets hurt, they're going to look at both the city and and the property owner. That's just that's what that's the way it works. Um also, as far to the mayor's point, um when you have some of these properties that have been sitting vacant for years upon years upon years, you know, how does that look for fencing versus somebody who's planning on who purchased a piece of property and plan on development within the next three years? You know, then you have to decide how is that fencing going to look? Are we going to have a uniform standard that's going to be beneficial to the city or are they going to say, "Hey, this is my piece of property. I'm going to develop it. I'll be glad to put what my building looks like on it or just green fencing if it's going to be there for the next decade and a half, you know." So, just food for thought going forward as to how that looks, you know, whether the property's been there for a while or not. that

uh real briefly back to the Kasa Marina now that they're back in the wedding business having been dumped by Corner Lot. Unfortunately, we all approved everything the corner lot proposed. We all were supportive as we possibly could be. We all went out of the way to be helpful and they just disappeared on us. So, here we are again. We still got that six north corridor and we got the Kasmarina. Now, the thing about the Casar Arena that is unique is that it brings hundreds of people to the beach who would ordinarily not ever come to the beach. They come to those weddings. They have one look at Jacksonville Beach. This is not people who come to the beach sometime with the family. Da da da da. This is a different group. Groups from all over. And anything we can do to make that experience that they have better would be wonderful. That's why I was so cranked up about corn a lot because that that strip is awful. Joe Exodin owned the whole block that we're talking about that Lyn Allen owns now. We approved Jacksonville Beach approved two complete development plans for that while he owned it. Neither one was exercised. I don't know if Lyn Allen has ever filed a plan for this or not, but he hasn't done anything. That has been there forever. the restaurant beaches paint and carpet the building that we built that was the first one built you know since 1950 that Len Allen now owns and looks like not so good you that whole area anything we can do to make it better because this is a unique uh catillion of people that come down to these weddings and thank you

Heather

thank you mayor um so I was just taking some notes that you know obviously we don't require construction fencing unless it's active construction for safety purposes. Uh so we'd have to make some code changes if we wanted to put the financial burden back on the property owners to require them to provide fencing and then set some parameters around that. I think using the facade grant currently before we can get to changing the code uh might be a nice just kind of gap to fill the gap if we want to require these sort of things. Um, Councilman Wagner, I I actually did have a conversation with the owners of the vacant lot behind the band shell. Um, and they were interested in doing something temporary there. However, it was very shortly after that conversation, they came to us and said, "Well, now we're interested in developing the lot." So, you know, you get caught between a rock and a hard place with yes, you're willing, but also you want to develop and how long are we going to even, you know, is it three months, six months, three years? We just don't know. So, um, you know, we can still have those conversations with some of the property owners to see what their willingness is. I think they all would be at least open to discussions. You know, it comes down to a matter of timing. How long is it going to take us to get it together to do something there versus when they're going to pull the trigger on developing the property. So, you know, we just kind of got to be mindful of those schedules and not expending too many resources on something that's not going to last. But, I agree. I would love to see like an art park or something there similar to what is across from Oceanfront Park. Um, one thing we, you know, kind of wanted to get some feedback from you guys from as well is not just the construction fencing, but other code concerns you have downtown because, you know, Taylor mentioned um aesthetics if it's, you know, chip paint, not necessarily code violation. We might not like the color of the Metropolitan, for example. Um, I suggested they painted it blue so it would hide in the sky, but nobody liked that idea. Um, but there's there's things we can do and there's things that we can't. So based on the current codes, um pretty much downtown is in compliance, which means we have to make stronger codes specific

to downtown properties, um that we would then apply that maybe wouldn't apply for the rest of the city. So, you know, we're really looking for some guidance, uh feedback, ideas from you guys is what you think you want to see that we're not doing because it's not currently in the code. Does that make sense? You know, what is we got? We have to take it a step further because we've gone through downtown and looked for violations and there's not many to find. It's um you know stuff we're already addressing landscaping, gum on the sidewalk, uh pavers, you know, that sort of thing. A lot of it's in the city realm, not the private realm. Um so when we talk about code enforcement, we're really looking at private property and what we can get the property owners to do to try to help and do their part in making downtown better. So this has come up. We discussed it at a briefing and I know you guys discussed it at your workshop last week, the idea of kind of an elevated set of codes for the downtown area. I think we were supportive. Um, and if I mischaracterize anything, let let me know. I think we also, and I think you guys pointed it out, that a lot of the kind of visual issues with Jacksonville, with downtown, aren't necessarily the private businesses, but they're city assets that have issues. I think the dumpster was brought up, which I think that's being fixed. But things like that, broken ballards, um, the visually aesthetic things that trouble us are ours. So they wouldn't necessarily be impacted by um changing the code. So So I don't know specific issues with the downtown businesses that I would necessarily want to fix with um an expanded ordinance or stricter ordinance, but I think that I would throw it to the CRA because this is where you guys are operating. So, um, anybody jump in if you don't agree with I mean, you guys tell us what you need this to be to make the downtown more, you know, aesthetically pleasing, safer, whatever, whatever it is that we want to accomplish with this. And I also will

say that we had discussion and would be supportive of a person adding an additional staff person when the time is right that would help identify code violations but would also help identify maintenance issues that we have downtown. And I know that staff's going to strangle me after this because that's kind of a unicorn position. It's really hard to, you know, it's not something that already exists in nature um or in our employment structure, but I think that that's the opportunity that we have with a CRA is to do things a little bit differently. So, um again, am I characterizing our discussion? So, having a person who's on the ground, literally on the ground because you cannot see these things if you are not walking around and that's what we want people to be doing in our downtown. um and and identifying issues either with private businesses or with with city assets to um make sure we remedy those as soon as we can. Other thoughts? Everybody agree with bumping this up. Greg,

thanks, Mayor. Um I think the concept is is is really good. Um, you know, when you travel around the different areas of the state, um, you know, I think of the Channelside area in Tampa and the transformation, of course, that's come with a investor that's got unlimited funds, but um, when you think of the transformation that that area has made and and you know, the screenings and different things that go up, it actually creates excitement, too, assuming that those are going to be carried through. Right. to Thaad's point, we've had some different areas that have sat for years and years now. And so if nothing happens, then it's sort of hollow, right? Um but I I think it can create excitement. Um at the same time, I think there's value in activating some of the spaces, too. And um you know, if if if that can work and if it's appropriate. Um as far as code enforcement goes, it's no secret that I think um we uh need to be a little stronger uh in code enforcement. having started on the code enforcement board that we used to have now 25 years ago. Um, you know, I it's my opinion that Heather needs help uh in that regard. And whether it's the downtown area or across the city, I think we need to um we need to um stand that up a little better than than where it's at today. Um, but I think that the concept in general um is strong and as far as um grant or just requiring the property owner to install, you know, to the mayor's point, $22,000 on something the size of the old Dolphin Depot property is not going to move the needle. I'd be I'd probably be uh more in favor of changing the code or the ordinance in order to uh to require them to to have it. So,

thanks Greg. Anybody else on this topic? Gary?

Um, in reference to code enforcement, I think it's a little bit of a challenge for us because it's been stated already that um everything is basically in compliance within the downtown area. If that's the case, what we really need to go back and take a look at is what the existing ordinances are and how do they need to be changed or strengthened to improve. And I'll just use an example. Um it's one that bugs me a little bit, but uh if you go by Spring Hill Suites, um on a uh typical day, they usually have four waste containers sitting out on the sidewalk uh requiring pedestrians to go around them out into the street and to get around the four containers. It's not a co it's not a code compliance issue, but it's a uh it is an issue and and really an aesthetic one. And we need to somehow be able to address those kinds of things along with if you take the uh the the empty lot that sits between lynches and ves. That looks terrible right now. The fence is down. The grass hasn't been maintained. It's it's in sad shape. How do we work with that owner to get that back to a level where we we feel comfortable with it and we're proud of what it represents on our main street of uh you know, First Street in Jack Beach. But again, it's a little bit of a challenge because it's going to take a little bit of time for us all to sit down or a group to sit down and go through the uh the codes to figure out how we strengthen them and where we strengthen them. John,

I wanted to ask Heather and Taylor. Um, when we started the conversation, I I I felt like you guys were asking a little different question than what I feel like we're responding. So, I want to make sure that that a I could be wrong. Probably am, but if I'm not, you know, maybe we can we can realign. You know, the way I internalized the start of the conversation was is when we see uh particularly some smaller communities redevelop, whether it's Springfield or, you know, in our own community or um or a place like Columbus, South Carolina that's a small community that's, you know, red redid itself and it's gorgeous and a fun experience. And um they did that by by having a strategy and a plan and codes that drove a certain look, feel, experience. And and we all know we don't have that here.

And so I kind of was it I was curious if the start of the conversation was at least kind of a toe in the water of some of that. That's what I thought it was. I think anyway, you know,

I think when to Oh, I didn't realize the chair stepped out to the chair's point. uh call him out while he's not sitting here. You know, it I I do agree that this is a massive um overhaul. This isn't uh these problems weren't created overnight. They're not going to be solved overnight. But to your point, yes, I think even just looking at something that is as lowanging fruit as a chain link fence, you know, if we decide to go this route of, okay, if you're not going to work with us to develop a green space, okay, we need to aesthetically improve this. So we start there and that's kind of low-hanging fruit. It's relatively easy. It can be a part of facade grant, you know, however we go about that. Um I do think it's a much longer in-depth and larger conversation. Uh there are some CRAAS in Florida now that are implementing their own sort of elevated code enforcement in their central business district. So it is being done. Um I think it can be done. It's just going going to take, you know, really time looking at what are the really nitpicky things that are making this not look as elevated as we want. How do we fix that? Do we offer incentives kind of because that's the other part, you know, that isn't in this packet that was in the CRA is the biggest thing, especially for me as staff is I'm not trying to damage any relationship with private property and private business owners either. We value the relationships and the partnerships we have with them. We'd like to maintain those. And I think the biggest thing with whatever we do, you know, something I share with Siri is we're trying to just be in compliance. We're not trying to enforce punishment. And I think communications will play a huge role in that when we get to this point, making sure we're communicating effectively and why we're doing this. Um, I think we have enough direction to kind of get started, but I do think this will be something that you will see come back to you several times.

Sounds like we all support that. Bruce, final word. Thank you, mayor. I just want to thank Councilman Horn and Councilman Wagner for their thoughtful comments and I I support their views completely and I don't want to get us off task like Dan said, we need to land this plane, but I was just wondering when I think about downtown that what always comes into my mind is the design of First Street. Are we going to ever do anything about that or are you guys comfortable with the way it is? I think that's probably going to be touched on later in the agenda. Okay. So, we will move on from item B on to item C.

So, uh sorry, no slides for this one. So, we'll leave it on this screen for now. Um, this is kind of for the CRA, summarizing a little bit more of what we talked about at the briefing for those of you who weren't there and then making sure that the changes that we're requesting at the briefing is something that the council is comfortable with with us moving and then, you know, bringing the CRA involved. Um, not a lot of changes and especially not a lot of technical changes were made. Uh, we did tweak the scoring criteria um and it's listed on your sheet. So experience, qualifications and the financial capability is obviously going to be the highest. Uh there are some elements to earn additional bonus criteria. Uh Mr. Chairman, the last bonus criteria that lead certification um that was at the suggestion of the chairman when we created this. So thank you for that. And the gas line relocation, I know that's something I don't know that we've even talked about with CRA recently. Gary, you're probably aware of the gas line running through the middle. Um, so that's something that we also added from the council briefing. However, uh, we got some more direction and we are adding language that states that the city's expected financial contribution must be identified and presented upfront in each proposal as a part of that financial capability. So, we don't get really excited about a project and then find out later down the line in an in-depth fiscal analysis that it is not going to work because they want $20 million from us or something crazy. So, that will be upfront. Um and then we added additional bonus point criteria, an additional point for a local developer and what the council direction on defining that was the greater Duval region. So Duval, Clay, Baker, St. John's, Nassau counties. Um and then an additional point for minority or female owned business and the process. Uh we're also now looking at including a layer of council involvement prior to final action. um council expressed the opportunity to review and discuss the top ranked proposers before any vote and then also

to request presentations from those top ranked um and then another thing that came out of that was again strong communications throughout the process. I've had one meeting already with uh the communications I can say team now because there's two of you. So, I've sat down with the team and we've kind of started an outline of pre-issuance of the package, during the process, and then afterwards. And we kind of have two separate things going where one will be internal just even for staff. You know, something we talked about was sometimes something will go out and we're not even expect we don't even know what's out on the street. So, making sure we're communicating internally with the CRA, with the council, and then also with the general public. Um, and then I believe where we left it with the review team would be made up of staff and then a council representative and a CR representative. Um, and so just kind of making sure from council perspective that we checked all the boxes that came out of the briefing. And then surprise, one of you gets to be on the committee. Yay. I'm kidding. I'd already told everybody. We um even though this isn't a CRA property, it's in the heart of downtown and we wanted to make sure that the CRA was very involved. Um the other just to clarify and correct me if I'm wrong on this when you said to the CRA I mean the council have presentations kind of that extra layer that we added of presentations. We wanted to include the CRA in that as well.

Yes. I'm sorry I misspoke. That would be all 14. Okay. So, come ready for some great presentations. Any questions on the P3 process? Bruce, thank you, Mayor. Miss Mobs, I was just curious about the language at the top of page two where it says overall project outcome, including scenarios where a proposer may leverage nearby property under their ownership. What what how do you envision that? What does that mean?

Sure. Uh so as it's written right now, um those tiered requirements are something that was required by state statute. So I wish it was as simple as us changing it ourselves, but we have to go back in and as we started talking, our tier one criteria is pretty black and white. So it was you must meet these requirements. Uh, something that came up and we were discussing is what if there's an adjacent property owner at the beaches already who comes to us and says, "Hey, I don't want to put parking exactly on this site. I would rather go three stories mixed use, but put parking a block over or put parking within an appropriate distance from the project." Technically, as it was written, that would not meet the tier one requirement. Um, however, we realized that we would kind of be, you know, doing ourselves a disadvantage to not open that up a little bit to consider some opportunities if someone was willing to put private property into the process as well.

Yeah. Any other any other

questions or comments? Garrett here. This has been a long time coming that to get to this point for us to uh put something out on the street, but I think it's it's important. It's um going to take a lot of effort on everybody's part to make this thing happen. Um one of the things that we really need to take a look at is um the organization and who is going to be responsible for this project as it moves forward. you know, who's going to be the dayto-day person that's going to address the issues that the ultimate selected developer has is something that u we all need to think about is uh who on staff is going to take this on a day-to-day basis because it's going to get it's going to get very involved because it's going to include design decisions, it's going to include construction decisions as well as financial and so forth. So um you know my recommendation would be that we you know we find the right person and we identify that person early in the process so they can get integrated into this even in during the selection process. I think it would be important for them to at least listen and participate not necessarily being a decision maker but uh so that they understand what is really expected out of this project. Um, and I guess you know ultimately I'd like to understand what the council expects the CRA to do, what their role will be in reference to this project. Um, you know, what are your expectations of us so that we know how we need to uh prepare ourselves and be respondent to uh the things that you're going to be asking. We picked him for everything. He does.

Sam, did you turn your question?

So, I would say for me the the role of the CRA is to look at it through the lens of the downtown vision plan, the focus on economic development, all of those things that you guys are looking at every day. So just to have that voice specifically that is kind of in the downtown world, you know, on a regular basis. Um to be looking at it through that lens and just to provide feedback on the projects um that we're that we're looking at through that lens. That's what my expectation would be. Anybody else? And I would assume and I I you know since there's nothing that's stated anywhere uh the request was made for somebody to be part of that selection committee from the CRA. So I guess it's upon this board to make a determination make a um recommendations on who that may be and then vote accordingly and then that's how that person would be um assigned to uh to this project. Okay, that's me.

Sounds great, John.

Um, so two things and I want to start by saying thank you for that summary. I know that process was not the easiest process and I really do appreciate how responsive you guys were and how we're how we're moving down this process and and I really, you know, I really think that's just a a a great result in the exercise to this point. So I I want to start by expressing my appreciation as somebody who's probably caused a problem or two. So um so thank you. And then secondly, I to Gary's comments, you know, I'll just bring up and you guys will get tired of hearing this, but I do believe this is a generational project for us. It is and and without belaboring the issue, we do really need to make sure we're thinking about this the right way and that we're resourcing it the right way. And that's gonna have to be different than what we've done in the past because it's so much bigger and Gary can articulate it or obviously articulate it a lot better than I'm ever going to because, you know, that's his space, not mine. Um, but so I just really want to encourage us and if we need additional resources or if we need some supplemental funding to to get the right types of people lined up to make sure that we're successful in this, you know, I would I would really invite the city to kind of bring that to us and and give us an opportunity to show the support um that we can give you guys because we really want you to be so successful through this process. Thank you,

Sandy. Just a quick followup to what the mayor said about making sure that the CRA is involved in that extra layer that the council is going to be involved. Is is that something that's documented somewhere that you'll add? Y, excuse me. Yes, absolutely. Because I want to make sure that that gets added in because we had discussed that. So, yes, definitely want to make sure. Thank We will send an updated um the timeline that kind of said, you know, this many days allocated here and kind of listed each step when we go back in to kind of send out our next draft um maybe final draft. We'll make sure that we add that in so everyone's aware of just the time commitment and the expectation.

Okay, good. Thank you, Bruce. Thank you, Mayor. you know, thinking back about some projects we've rolled out or some ideas and how the people who lived here were really not very excited about them. I want to be sure that the people who live here will be satisfied and happy to see whatever it is we come up with. Thank you. Yeah, of course, Heather.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to, you know, kind of remind everybody that due to the the scope and size of this project, the expectation is that it would go forward as a resoning to redevelopment districts. So that is CRA's opportunity to have their input, you know, uh council's opportunity and the public's opportunity, not their only opportunity, not not any of y'all's or the public. Um but there will be a lot of steps between now and then to ensure that it's what everybody wants for the community. Now, obviously, we all know we're not going to make everybody 100% happy. That's impossible. no matter what business you're in, as much as we would love that. Um, you know, we're going to do the best we can to make this project work for our downtown. You know, once construction starts, um, I'm not going to be the construction manager and neither is Taylor or or Gary or the mayor. Um, that's kind of we we hand you, you know, we'll probably get you on some demo if that works for you. Um,

yes. Yeah. But, you know, they'll when they're under construction, when we get to that point, it's going to follow the same process as any other construction project in our city where we engage at the appropriate points in time. Um, but a lot of decisions are going to be made before we even put a shovel in the ground. You know, how's the structure of this project going to work? What's their input? What's our input? What's everybody's role? What are we getting out of it versus what they're getting out of it? So, there's a lot of negotiations that will take place once the the project um proposer is selected. And so I know we want to like get to the point of what's it going to look like? You know, we got a lot of steps between now and then to get to that point, but it'll be beautiful. I hope is our goal, right? And successful.

It's going to have a beautiful wind fence around it. Artistic, city logo. It's going to look great. CRA logo. Both both partnership. It's all about a partnership. Okay, we're good on that topic. Moving on to item D. CRA projects update.

Yes. Uh so I will give an overview and then I have um a nice picture on the next slide. Um I just want to be clear these updates aren't necessarily every single thing that are coming across my desk every day. These are the critical what is in the FY2026 CIP. Um so right now Leam Plaza our construction docs are at in the hands of FD and St. John's River Water Management District. Uh they have requested some additional information. We actually just spoke before this. It was due to no shock lighting. Uh even though technically it's not within the boundary of where you necessarily have to follow the sea turtle. We were following it anyway. It's whole process, but we think we've gotten to a good place and fingers crossed. Uh FD did just issue our field permit. So that is a huge ordeal and we are hoping uh Fish and Wildlife and Water Management District will follow suit. Well, once we at that point, then we will re-update everyone and then we will be ready to put this project out on the street uh for a bid. Uh we've got a couple of art projects. Um Havoc Studios, which is Jenny Hager with UNF, they do a sculpture garden. They are working on uh they're going to bring by a mockup of the sea turtle sculpture that will go at the Beach Boulevard Street End area. Um they'll bring that by once I have it. I'll let everyone know when whatever CRA and council and art meetings fall after that, we will bring the turtles to the meeting and pass them around. Um, we also, you received an email, I believe just before this, there is an active call to artists for six new dumpster enclosures. Um, thank you to our public works director who came to me and said, "Hey, we've got six new dump dumpsters. Why don't you go paint them?" Um, so that was great. So, we have issued that. Uh the art committee opted to keep the call local again like we did last time to the three beaches and they did actually specify they um would like to pick six separate artists. Um so we will be able to feature six local artists from the

community. So we're really excited about that and we are finalizing our peer entryway piece of artwork now that the pier area is looking much better. We will be um updating you guys probably at a future briefing just kind of on where that stands and then issuing that call to artists as well. that will be a very um massive and lengthy art project. I know wayfinding signage is something that pops up on our CIP. The biggest reason initially there was a pause was because um it wasn't really everyone's favorite and we were kind of like let's just hold off and then I'm getting some head shaking and yeah, so it wasn't the greatest. Uh and then we found out the city was going to be doing a signage project. So now that that's winding down, um we will kind of reignite the flame of wayfinding signage and we want whatever the CRA does downtown to be complimentary to the city. Obviously, we're a CRA, so right, we have to be different, has to be above and beyond the standard, but what we the last thing we wanted to do was go through this process and we end up with something that's just completely different and doesn't even look right next to the city signs. Um the pure parking lot improvements are completed except for the bike racks installations. Um, again, we're going to have basic racks and the wave racks down across the front that look like a continuous wave. That was one, we wanted to add some art. We also wanted to add something to create um a barrier where cars are like, "Oh, hey, there's a massive wave in front of me. I can't drive over this." Um, I know Lynches will be happy that we block that for them. Um, and once we have a confirmed delivery date of the bike racks, we will send out an email, make sure everyone's aware. And then for the south end, uh we have our final drawings for the passive park. Um thank you again to public works and parks. They identified a couple of things they wanted to talk about. We've given those back to NV5 who is on project now and they're going to revise our plans and once we complete their revisions, we will be ready to um also issue that project. Uh and then just

kind of some miscellaneous information. Um you know, obviously you kind of live and you learn through these projects, right? So you you walk in, you inherit kind of this massive book of hey, figure it out. These have never been done. And something that I've been having a lot of meetings internally um you know with support of Heather and administration is just the communications to develop a more direct, straightforward, and simpler approach to making sure projects when they do get delayed, it doesn't just look like, oh, it just died. Nothing's happening. Um it's a little bit unique when you're obviously here and you're in it every day. you don't always think about updating because we know where it's at. Um, but that's something now that the communications team has expanded. Uh, I want to do at least with the CRA projects, whether that is a monthly um, email blast, a post, a newsletter, something of that effect, both internal and external, just to keep the CRA, the council, and then more, you know, the public um, informed on where these projects stand. So that way you guys hopefully aren't bombarded with as many questions about why why isn't this happening? you know, there will be a resource that we can direct people to so it's clear and concise and they can understand. Um, and then my last update. No, no, man. Okay, here we go. Um, yeah,

before we get to that, that's kind of the last item on the agenda. So, let's stick with um the C project update. Um, I want to say that I really appreciate the addition of the project updates into the monthly email newsletter. So, I think and I know they're going to start doing that twice a month. So, maybe that can just instead of creating something new for the public side of it, use the tools that we already have. Um, this report that you put together that's in our packet, is this something you normally do and give to the CRA? A version usually and sometimes it's verbal, sometimes it's usually it's a condensed version of kind of the most active and hot topic things happening. I know that the last thing you need is more reports. That's okay.

I do know that. Um, it reminds me of the pension administrator report that we get on the pension board that Dustin updates. It's the same format. It looks the exact same every time. It's just got the updated numbers or the updated dates or whatever. I think if you started using a framework like this and gave it to the CRA on either their monthly meeting or you do it quarterly, whatever makes the most sense, just send shoot it to us because I think that that would give us some good visibility on the projects without having to pester or be reactive when somebody contacts us about them. Um, and I think that on, you know, and I'm I'm glad you acknowledge some communications concerns in there because I think we we do feel that, but I think that would be

it's we're seeing it a lot more as a council that proactively we're getting the answers to the questions either right when they come or before they even come and that's really really helpful to us um to stay engaged and to be able to speak on them. So, I really like that. Um, and hopefully it wouldn't be too much of a burden to just get in and update it and tweak it whatever every month or every quarter. Also, I had asked if um council hasn't seen it in the report, the breakdown of the staff and how much who and how much are being paid out of the CRA so that you guys can have that kind of at your fingertips if you have any questions on that. That

real briefly, Taylor, when are we going to have a chance to give you some feedback on the passive park platins? I have a couple of major issues with Well, um great question. These are the final construction documents. Well, we've got sleeping size benches in the plane, for instance. Okay. That No, that that's a very that's an easy one. Two other items that are similar. That's Yeah, that's a just a not a good image that they use. The bench that we selected has the rails in between so you can't sleep on it. That That's a much minor. I thought you were wanting to tweak the whole design. That's easy.

My other big issue is it looks like be very expensive to maintain the landscaping they're proposing and uh couple of other items. I mean, we need to talk about it before we go final on it. Okay. Our parks department is very engaged, I will say. Um, you know, I'm not a landscaping expert, but we do have people in parks that are. Um, thus far, they're comfortable with what's proposed, but I'm happy to go back and let them know there are some concerns about the maintenance and make sure they feel it's a digestible dollar amount and we're not overspending on maintenance. Okay. Bill.

Um, couple of things. I want I would say that when we're talking about public information, sending out information about these projects, I think that at the city level, like we should piggyback some of the other projects that we have going on. And I think we should continue to kind of blast that information out to the public as much as we can. And if we're going to send out something on a regular basis, we can piggy back and throw in there, hey, by the way, you know, we're doing these maintenance projects. We're doing tearing up the streets in your area. This is how far along we are. We're 50%. our goal is X and we're we're supposed to be 50% but May we're supposed to be you know past that. So again just the continued information to the public because I I know a lot of my colleagues on council and myself we you know get a lot of communication from the public in regards to the lack of communication or the lack of information and it's not it the information is there. It's just we're just getting better at making sure that everybody has it. Um, two quick questions, but you said that the So, we're almost about to send out for Leam Plaza and then we're also about to open up I think passive part for

Okay. So, two things. Number one, what are the timelines on both of those as far as what that what is the because I would have I would have thought the passive park would have been done a lot sooner than Lake Plaza. We wholeheartedly agree. Um, I will say the company that we were working with initially was purchased by a different company. What we've learned in that process with that we kind of lost a lot in translation. Um, I will say the group we're working with now I feel extremely confident with.

One of the things that we've also talked about with administration is when we put projects out for bid and people are submitting especially for construction uh requiring stricter timeline schedules on the front end of these projects. And so rather than us just kind of pestering someone consistently, actually having something that has some teeth to it that if somebody's not reaching deadlines, we've got a lot more wiggle room to enforce those. And then something we've learned with public works, the 900 day project is, you know, there's a massive incentive on the end of that and that project is moving along swimmingly and incentivizing on some of these larger construction projects as well. So um it'll be a combination of different things. maybe incentivizing having timelines on the front end, but overall the timeline for construction for the two projects, um,

chronologically, when should we be finished? Oh gosh. I'm told that once we start construction of Laam, so that once it starts five months, okay, passive park, I do not have a good estimate on that. Stay tuned for your next CRA project manager update. I will have it in there. make sure just the only other thing I just want to say is make sure that both of those processes have public input and there's you know still continued that make sure that there's well yeah you don't we'll make sure on both of those projects before they go out on the street with those like we do with public work

where there will be a number of days associated with the project as their time frame to finish with other Bruce thank you mayor um please forgive me if I'm mistaken but this construction documents and the first bullet point under Eye Plaza. I think this was started before my time. Can you uh Yes, sir. enlighten me as to what this is.

Yes. So, the specific construction documents we're referencing um years ago before my time even, there was a desire to update and renovate Leam Plaza. went through several iterations. Where we finally got to where the council, CRA, and everyone were comfortable, especially the public and event promoters, uh, is this western third of the plaza. So, basically, if you look out there now where the statue is back to Second Street, that chunk, um, is what's going to be redone, and it is just really upgrading what's there, adding some amenities. So, there will be um, tables and chairs that have shade. There are three small kind of ground level sculptures. There was no desire to have a playground or anything, but the sculptures do double as kind of something a small child could crawl on and play on. Um, and then there is a permanent stage where the temporary stage usually goes at events, putting in a permanent flattened stage so that way event promoters don't have to constantly rent and bring a stage. And then actually on the back side of that stage that it faces city hall, it actually says Laam Plaza because right now there is no massive signage that says Laam. Um and it's just really upgrading what's there and making it an amenity that you can use all week and not just on the weekend at special events.

So are there renderings of this week that I can see? Yep. Okay. I'll touch base with you on that later. Let me just ask one last question real quick because I've heard some folks suggest this talk about removing all the palm trees out there. That's not part of this project, is it? Uh relocating them is so removing them. Some are some not all of them. No, I think the first two to three are being removed slashrelocated. Thank you, Gary. Just a couple quick comments. Um, Taylor, I think one of the things that we should also touch on is the uh low-speed vehicle parking. That's up next.

I'm sorry. That's up next in future capital projects. That's future. Okay. Yeah, you got you got ahead of me. You're always ready. Sorry. No, that's okay. Um, I guess the other thing that um is really not covered in the um information is where do we stand with public works projects and so forth. we haven't really seen an update uh as it relates to the projects that are underway right now and then also what future projects we're going to be seeing uh kick off and

yeah I and please anyone this just my opinion just in the essence of time I think maybe at our February meeting we could arrange for public works to give us a more comprehensive update on where all their projects stand um I just don't know that we have ample time today. Yeah. Let's go ahead and go through item E and see where we are and then uh we can either do an informal rundown. Yeah, I was going to say I mean we we might have a He's here. Maybe if we have specific questions that we can

I'll coordinate. Okay. Item E. Wait. Oh, sorry, Sandy. I'm over here in the corner. It's harder to see. Um, so following up on the report request, um, I know Mr. I think Mr. horn, you were asking for project updates kind of like what Gary was saying. So that would include public works as well,

but also too something you did a while back but we haven't seen in a while is other projects like Bose Coral Reef, you know, thing those types of projects, the development projects or development as well, the permitted projects and that sort of thing. So, uh, regularly, I think it would be helpful to include that information in the reporting that's being done because we still get questions about all of those. I mean, I have people, what's going on with Bose? You know, great question. Yeah. Yeah. And and so you guys, uh, council knows we've been providing that information in the quarterly strategic plan updates. Um, from my end, when I looked at it this last time, there were no changes to be made on on the public or the uh, private projects. Um the public one's a little bit different, but we can we can push that out monthly instead of um you know, it's hard though because especially when we don't have any update to share. It's like nothing's changed. Public works projects are very similar. They take 900 days. So we were giving detailed reports uh back to the CRA, but nothing was changing. So we kind of wanted to only give an update if there was something to update on. Um, but we'll reook at the way we're formatting our staff reports on because the CRA gets a lot of information about even just, you know, special events coming up in the next couple of months, council meetings, that sort of thing. Um, we can look at breaking that down a little more where we could just take this piece of it and share a little bit better with everybody. So, we'll we'll strategize internally on the best way to get that information out to everybody.

I mean, even if it's even if it says, you know, there's nothing going on or whatever, at least we know, okay, there's nothing going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've got a 30-year mortgage from the bank. They send me something every month. They want their money.

Oh gosh. Be surprised. I look at a lot of them. All right. We're going to move on to item E. We are gonna end on time. Okay. I I see it.

This we kind of added this last minute and it worked out really well. But we added it and then the next day I got an email from our budget offers officer that said, "Hey, uh, get ready. We're doing FY27 CIP." I'm like, "Well, great." Uh, so some things coming up and and they come up a lot in our meetings and we actually just talked about this at the CRA meeting. Um, First Street, the redesign, I know that's kind of been thrown around a couple of times. We were very gracious that um, the TPO uh, gave us a free planning study on First Street. We are still waiting on the data collection to come back. Once we have their report back, then we'll kind of brainstorm internally and bring that to the CRA and then kind of decide on the next steps. Um I will tell you for FY 2728 29. There is funding budgeted to cover a first street redesign project. Uh at that time it was a the best guesstimate we could make, but there is money in the next fiscal year to really kind of start diving into this because it does need a big update. So again, that's another one of those that probably in the next few months you will start seeing a lot about that from us. Um especially with our new communications uh LSV, the local lot, the conceptual design is completed. Uh it's not budgeted in FY26 for construction. However, it is in the realm of construction projects. I mean, nothing is ever simple, but it is a smaller, simpler project. If that was something that council said, you know what, nope. We want this done now. uh we can then work internally with our finance department and figure out how to modify the budget and where to modify and bring a budget amendment to the CRA and then to council for approval to move this forward once we get a cost estimate.

I for all the reasons you just said because this is smaller this is real lowhanging fruit and I think this would be really it's going to be really popular with our citizens. I do it right. I mean, we're not voting because this is just a workshop, but I think, you know, and even just so you guys know, even we can't say do it now, but we can all agree that this is I a easy one to push forward and I think I think it was a universal all 14 headnot on that. So,

no, I I listen, I'm very happy. Um, we will take that. uh our consultants are the last thing they're working on for the deliverable on this is the cost estimate. So once we get that, we have a better idea of what this is going to cost. We will then be able to develop a package to go out, bring that to you guys, amend the budget as we need to, and move this process along. But again, we will make sure we effectively communicate where we're at within this process so everyone is aware. Uh Oceanfront Park is another one that will be coming up in a future fiscal year. I believe we've got about $300,000 at this time allocated. Not trying to do anything crazy. We're not trying to turn it into, you know, sunshine, but it's been a long time since anything's been done there, and we would like to upgrade those amenities. Um, so we'll start having some workshop conversations, eventually briefing conversations, and just kind of what amenities we're looking to add and what improvements we are looking to make. And then eventually the Seawalk side of Laam Plaza uh will come back before you guys. So that one will be uh probably we'll probably start some conversations next next fiscal year but you know depending on how this first phase goes we'll see where we stand on moving on the second and what direction is given. Um, and then this is the concept. Uh, Gosh, it's so small. I'm sorry. This, uh, is the L

I can't create contacts for you. This is the concept for the LSD. It's got 63 total low-speed vehicle spaces. It's got four regular size accessible spaces. It's got bike parking, uh, benches, not the kind you can lay down on, I promise. uh and trash cans that will mirror the rest of the gray trash cans that we installed downtown. And then it's got the five foot landscape buffer all around the perimeter as required by our code. Um uh so second, this is second right here. And then fourth and that's Wave Crest right there. Right. That's Wave Crest right here.

Right here.

Right there. This is Yeah. And then on this end is a parking lot as well down here. I believe that this the majority are. I I don't Yeah, I don't think we're tearing out, you know, this is not designed for cars to just come blasting through and fill every nook and cranny. It's small intentional spaces for scooters, golf carts, and then the few accessible um spaces that we do have. So we won't need to go in and tear a bunch of trees down.

I This is the handicap spaces may not be to scale because no, they are not supposed to be. But I do agree they do look small on this. But I did ask the I asked the consultants and I'm like just to be clear everything else was supposed to be low speed but those were normal. And they're like yeah those are normal. So okay. So that's awesome by the way.

Well, and that was that was my question. We can add more. I mean, I I don't I don't think four is enough. I think I think we should accessible. Yeah. ADA space. The only thing I would say about that is that it's not really near anything. So if you're if you're in need of an accessible space, you're there's not really anything closer to where the business there's there would be you walk past. In any event, we lose all our disabled parking.

A lot of disabled people have a different level or a different form of mobility. So, we have a lot of folks that have to use uh wheelchairs or scooters who can't go to our events because when we shut down the park or when we when we fill up the the Laam parking or we shut it off or we cut off Second Street, there's no place for them to even get close.

The other thing that they frequently do, uh, people in the disabled population is they will drop somebody off and then be able to park relatively closely. and so with a disabled permit. And so I I by the way I have this conversation with people on a somewhat regular basis. We are far from accessible. Very very far. And so I I I would argue that four is not enough.

Yeah. Four is not enough. And it's not too far away to at least have something. I mean right now there this is like something bad versus nothing. this near the pier kind of I mean it's near the pier and I mean yeah I I think it's easy I totally agree to add I mean whatever number everyone kind of is comfortable with we can go back to the consultants and say hey you know we want eight we want 10 we want six we want

uh the those so this whole row this This is the uh well, it's supposed to all be ADA, but these two right here are Yeah. regular. So, I mean, if we filled that whole top row, I think we could do six up there. That's perfect. If I mean, six is a Bill, would you like to speak? Are these are these ADA? I'm sorry, Gary. Bill was speaking. Go ahead, Bill. No, I was going to say six or more. Six or eight, you know, maybe. But because 63 low-speed vehicles, um I drive my golf cart down. We And we're going to have some in the peer parking lot. Correct. They're there.

Parking one. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I I do drive my golf cart down and I'm happy to see more, but yeah, I think I agree that Yeah, there's more handicap space. Great. Gary, just a quick question for the ADA spaces. Are they specifically for automobile or low-speed vehicles? No, they're just automobile. They're automobiles. I mean, so we're Yeah, it's a little different ball game. We were actually asking earlier, are are low-speed vehicles even Okay, so they're not so it it randomly registered with us. We're like, wait, do we need to have handicap LSV spaces? Is that a thing or Okay, good to know. Question answered.

Okay, so we're all excited about this one. And this one is going to happen probably before the passive park end. No, don't. Actually, I'm gonna stop saying things like that out loud. Uh that's the end of the agenda, right? Okay. Thank you guys for your presentations. Uh Gary,

can I just ask a couple quick questions? You know, along the same lines, there's uh I think a number of public works projects that um may kick off this year. We've got $200,000 budgeted for looking at design work along Second Street from Beach to um I think a Sixth Avenue North. So there there may be some additional public works projects that may be may be kicking off this this year too. And I guess we getting a a complete update on those would be uh would be worthwhile. Um, one of the things I'd like to get from council is also some input on urban trails. Um, and the reason I'm asking is that you've given direction to staff about urban trails and particularly focusing on the north end and uh, particularly around the schools and things. Within the budget for the CRA for this year, there's $500,000 in both the downtown budget as well as the south end budget for urban trails. Is there something that council wants us to do or would like us to look at in reference to the urban trails in those two areas, particularly with the south end. I mean, we um I don't know if you've been on the section that's been completed along Jacksonville Drive, but um I've ridden it several times and it's a wonderful path leading from South Beach basically to Third Street. Be great to continue to do some things down there. Um as an example, if we do the passive park, going from the passive park to Sunshine Park may be an option. going from Sunshine Park to uh along Acyola uh for a stretch would be uh it's heavily used and would be a benefit. Thank you for bringing that up. So, I think when we talked about the direction for urban trails, we wanted to focus on

the school areas because there's a real deficiency there and we really wanted to kind of hone in on showing some real utility to the to the trails. Um, I don't think that we probably thought that meant you guys should stop working on trails in your district. So, I think that's a very simple one that would be very, as we've seen the success of Jacksonville Drive, the stretch between the passive park and Sunshine Park to me would be easily done. Um, another one of those local lot things. Oh, Dennis is raising his hand. We're not going to end at five, are we, Dennis? That that's not how we understood.

Hang on. park that that entire stretch from Jack all the way to the park needed to be added as an urban trail. It's a connector that goes through there. So, we're waiting on trail.

Okay. So, that's already part of it. When we do the one, we're not going to master. Yeah. So, what were you going to say, Heather? You said that was not our understanding. Just that when the direction was set for the trails, we kind of took that as because it's a citywide project. It's not just a CRA project that those were the trail segments and we had never been told. Okay, this sounds like Dennis had the opposite understanding. So, okay,

Dennis has the builds on. I let Dennis and I want you to have that understanding. So, thank you. So, let's let me just tie a bow on this because when Gary brought this up to me, I realized the fact that we had all thought, you know, this is our focus, but not to not to negate anything that you guys were working on, but just our priority area was going to be around the schools. It didn't even occur to me that there even was a segment that was going to get held up in the south end. So, we assume because it's a city project that these are the four we're focusing on now. And that's why like from last fiscal year the 500,000 had just carried over. Um so that's

I feel like and let's see how many other people nod if the passive park is going to get done in this fiscal year and we have the budget to do the sidewalk all the way to the park. That's a local slot. That's a low hanging fruit and easy easily done. I say easy. I don't they don't let me just like a shovel and some concrete. So it that seems like one that would make a lot of sense to just go ahead and do everybody generally. I just want to ask does will this be going through people's right away? No, there's no rightway along South Beach or I mean I'm sorry there's no private property on I I was answering his question incorrectly.

So So no, it's all it's that stretch of there's Yeah. So it's 501. Any other questions? Okay. So, we're going to look forward to a regular report coming from uh Taylor's office like it's more than one person and um CRA will look forward to getting some of the uh capital project updates or the infrastructure project updates in your next meeting or whatever Dennis can pull together. And we look forward to being at some ribbon cutings together this year, right? Let's do it. Thank you guys, everyone, for your thoughtful contributions, for your time. staff. Thank you for making faces behind. Sorry, Sandy.

Before we leave, do we want to talk about another joint meeting within the next year? Is I mean, is that something we want to Yeah. summertime plate? So, every six months. What's