Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

e e e e

e e e e 26 2025 meeting of the Union Township zoning commission is now called to order uh please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for

all uh we'll do um Mr mccor could you please call call roll yes Mr Shannon yes Mr Wing yes Mr outr yes Mr Campbell yes Mr Lewis yes everybody's here has everyone had a chance to uh take a look at the minutes uh if so have we uh do we have a motion to approve the minutes from the January 22nd uh 2025 meeting I'll make that motion all right second motion Sir Mr uh McCormack please call roll Mr Shannon yeah Mr Wing yes Mr outd yes Mr Campbell yes Mr Lewis yes motion carries all right we're not GNA we're not going to have any uh speakers tonight so I'm not going to go through the uh have ask you to go through the uh explanation of our purpose here old business uh none uh new business we've got uh three things we're going to talk about tonight uh apparently a discussion on proposed text amendments that Mr McCormack will go over in a minute we're also going to talk about the uh multif family development uh in our community that we discussed a couple meetings back and then Mr mccormic gathered a lot of data I've got several copies of that if if anyone didn't wasn't able to print it out just talk about that a little bit and then our case motion format and training of new board members so we'll start with the first uh item which is the case 1- 25t uh discussion of proposed text amendments for the zoning resolution Mr McMan thank you um really we just put a spot in here for whatever we're going to bring out of the discussion to be case 125z we didn't prepare anything specific because we didn't want to waste time on something that sure may not be worthwhile um I know I've talked to our administrator and there are a couple

that if if everybody's kind of on board we would like to get um on Deck to be working on I think one of the two is are is particularly I think easy for us to do and it won't involve a lot of word smithing um a couple of these other ones that I may bring up might take a little longer they might be you know more of a couple months out to do it um so what I'll do is I'll highlight the the couple for sure that we were looking at um so the first one and probably the easiest one is right now we don't have a time limit on on the overlay plans that are approved like we do the plan developments or even like a zoning permit so what happens is some of these overlays set here for years you know we had one for example on um that went to the trustees for Panda Express and their reason why they stopped construction is because they found out about the work they were going to do at glenese and Clepper which is potentially a viable thing but in the meantime you know that that's been 2 years and they're still waiting because they want the work around that area to be substantially finished before they do anything other than demo the old structure which they've done and secure the site so um it's not the only instance that that's happened um staff was wanting to more or less put some language in there that gives people a time period just like we do on the PDS it could be 5 years to match the PDS or or it could be like a zoning permit you give them a year to start and two years to substantially complete and a provision in there that says if you need more time you you can ask for more in the in between um I think it either one of those could be logical um I don't know if you guys have suggestions or thoughts on

it how how common is is this happening like is it like once in a blue moon we've got some sitting around or is this a regular regularly occuring issue I would say one or two a year where they're sitting for a while yeah but then they become cumulative right because we yeah and I don't know how many are cumulatively happening um I I am seeing from time to time older cases come in um but I myself can remember a few like off off the top of my head sure there's there's definitely I would say probably on average two a year what's our time on PD now is it two years five five oh it's five years that would be the most generous I think we could be yeah I I would agree that's pretty generous yeah lot can lot can happen in five years lot changes so I can see it being even just three two to three if you did the one year and then it can go you know got to start within one year or report back why you're not starting at and get an extension possibly one extension keep keep the township planning division in in the loop as to what's happening and it's not you know not not all the rumor mill isn't going on that's basically how the permits are handled you know you have a year to start you have two years to basically be substantially completed there's a provision in there that you can ask for more time if you need it you can justify it so theoretically you can end up with like you know maybe even third year which my last job that's how it was done there they allowed for you to do that up to three years and it was more tied with the Indiana code but um I think you could go either route I think

that five years might be a little too long um if you're if we draft it up like we do the zoning permit you allow for some flexibility in there and and as a staff when we meet with people we're saying apply but wait until you really think you're going to move forward you know hope hopefully you don't have that happen as many times right I mean if obviously if there's like a collapse in the market or something like we had 2008 it could you know impact a project quite a bit um and that's more of a fiveyear hit sometimes but but if we do the the one year twoyear it forces them to keep in communication right as opposed to just disappearing and then you're five they come back and yeah do it yourself or so so I I can draft it up that way and then ultimately it's you know if the trustees want to give them a little more time for some reason they can I think five's kind of a Max really if we were going to look at a number I mean why would you give them more than five if you're not even giving PD people five no so no I agree all right I'll draft something up for that that's probably the easier one to go over um that's one um we talked about creating lighting standards um and I had thrown up a a chart about that I know my prior job we had a pretty good system to deal with it Corey indicated that and when he was at Loveland they put together pretty good code for that so we have a couple examples we can draw upon um right now we don't have anything that really substantiates like what we're

using to people so we need to have something in there um so I don't know that anybody would disagree we need to have something it's just a matter of like how in depth do we want to make it so unless somebody's not agreeable with that we would probably proceed and do some research on that might even throw out more than one alternative I know in the past What I've Done sometimes is I've I've drafted up like two totally different ways or if the number if it's just like the measurement number and we can then it's just like what we talked about you can throw one or a five in there right and you just replace the number but in that case I might come up with like two different scenarios they should both be reasonable right and then you know everybody kind of picks which one they think is more reasonable so okay um there we at least need a Band-Aid on our sign code are we have in the zoning resolution a maximum height noted to allow for 30 ft but basically every area You' want to sign for the most Parts in an overlay and almost all the overlays are capping the signage at like 12 ft and below so there's this major difference between what's acknowledged in our code as a Max versus what's actually being used M um I've only seen a 30 foot sign I think one time and it was the Kroger and that actually was was theoretically kind of approved before I got here and started working here um I think they wanted 100 foot sign originally good um I think 30 even is probably more than what they need but um 100 would have been kind of crazy I mean if we're doing 15 on PD sounds like that should be the

standard yeah so we at least need to put that in there there might be a couple other things in there about sage like that are more of a Band-Aid fix we might want to reevaluate the whole signage code at some point I don't know that we're quite it in my opinion the Band-Aids can get put in there first we have some other things that might need more attention before we totally look at redoing the sign code because that's that can be a lot of work um is this for freestanding signs because I mean that what puzzled me a little bit we the the project on glenese Whitesville the the brewery uh uh which I think was a is a great project but we agreed to the signage up on top of the building and that's above the the height but yet it's attached to the building so are we talking freestanding sign signage okay yes yeah and I think 12 is probably low I mean we've got a lot of signs higher than 12 12T a lot of the ones we have higher than 12T are probably kind of a pre-existing condition and for the most part I don't think we're seeing anything over 15 that's recent right um I mean we have allowed people to reoccupy an existing structure or maybe replace one but all the newer ones I think are pretty much especially in the overlays are mostly Under 12 feet 12 feet or under so I know that the height of the sign is one issue um I've also have in [Music] here Provisions regarding removal of signs Billboards and off- premise signs is another item right now you can put an off- premise sign pretty easily kind of surprisingly easy um I don't know that that's really what we want and then I put in here some other things that we really don't have language for

that I could see like signs with with like obscenities mural signage how to treat that kind of thing I I think the biggest ones are more like the sign height and like the off- premise signs I I don't I don't I don't I mean I think what we would want to do is fix the things need to be fixed right away and then we might want to look at a more comprehensive approach and I don't personally have a problem with increasing the the sign height you said we're at 12 feet now which that that's in the C we could go higher than that I I don't want to see like you said 100 feet but I think 30 Feet's reasonable I I don't it's the sin height doesn't bother me specifically does it bother anybody else I mean a great the giant one of course but yeah 30 feet to give you kind of an idea is pretty much like the size of a jungle jyms guy out there on the bigger one that's probably close to 30 feet I think it has to you know it has to be in relation to the size of the development as well though cor well it's you has to be proportional you're right I um that's a good point yeah we don't want to we don't want a veterinary office that's in a little space having a great big sign you're right I don't know how you work that out that'd be U complicated uh probably have to do something with square footage square footage yeah yeah I just talked to someone the other day like another thing is our sign code allows for a lot more square footage based on like the amount of Fage you have so like it might cap somebody at 150 ft but 150 ft is a lot when you're capped at a 12T height right right you start visualizing that that's a big sign right a sheet of plywood is 8 by4 4 by8 4 by eight so think of how many sheets of plywood it's going to look you know it's going to take it's a that's basically a small billboard yeah yeah so but I agree it makes sense to

proceed with modifying the resolutions in order to fix these loopholes or to address inconsistencies first and then undertake when you've got time to do it a comprehensive review of it so we can sort of tighten it up for right now knowing we'll go back in and make a comprehensive review that makes sense as opposed to just letting it all hang out until there's time to address a comprehensive review but unless I I missed something what Rob was talking about was the basing the height of the sign on the overall acreage of the of the square footage or acreage of the development and you then you talked about the 150 is that the 150 square feet allowed for the sign itself yeah so right now there's a number in there based on how much um linear how many linear feet you have a frontage and then it's capped at 150 so like if you have more than what might equate to 50 you're still capped at 150 but 150 is a lot on it's a 10 by 15 which you can get a lot up there and we're not we're not talking Interstate signs for the most part right where they you know you're reading them from a far distance these you're reading from you know and when they're only 12et high you're it's like a billboard basically the guy that I talked to the other day is over there kind of near Elite um Athletics or whatever and his Lots very small but he was going to be allowed up to 150 square feet and his parking's all in the front and I'm like you're G have to be careful about where you would put such a sign even if you tried to because it's going to be a obstruction if you're not careful on the Old 74 traffic so and he I think his thing was he wanted to move it back anyways more where it might be attached to the building and I was like okay well that's fine but you know it's even hard to try to locate signage if

you're trying to max out on some of these it just doesn't make sense right yeah well and the way things are packed in there on Old 74 in that area it's hard to see anything in there right you know yesterday coming back from uh picking up my grandson the I I don't know if he's selling cars or it's next to the Liberty fin or Liberty Tax Service oh gosh yeah he's he had two cars parked in the road yesterday yeah I saw that you know and it's like and but I couldn't see there's so much stuff there I don't know what he is I don't know if he's Body Shop sales whatever is that the place that was near the um is it near Holman it's no no we're on Old 74 silers and yeah by by silers that area and that Liberty Tax it's right there close to my street comes 74 uh UDF is across the stre it's on the north north side of the street okay on North Side Street yeah yeah think of the intersection of glassy myville in 74 there's a UDF there will continue East a little bit on 74 and it's right on your left Liberty Tax there's there's the silers and then they're sandwiched in between okay I know what you're talking about they have a couple Dodge Chargers that are just like paint stripped and no engines they're sitting there waiting for somebody to give them a a fortune and for a Dodge Charger frame two identical Dodge Charger frames there's a bunch of used cars there like and like what Mr way said almost in the street yesterday um yeah and the statue of Liberty was just sitting on the Cur curb next to him yeah so sitting there Scott's been sick the last couple days so if it's been there very long surprised he's not noticed it yeah I know they move it around a lot because yeah I I like cars so I'm always looking but um but yeah yesterday they were in the street yeah they got too many cars now huh I'll try to say something to Scott

when he's back he's been sick for a couple days okay um I makeing know that real quick4 he'll probably know who we're talking about he might even be watching who knows yeah I guess I have to look for a sign next cars the other thing that I really kind of had noted um is potentially to add an article regarding Landscaping because we have in our plan development District language in there about how to landscape appropriately in different scenarios but other than that we really don't have good language in there about what a buffer yard should involve and entail right so it's kind of again we're relying on what we've done in other places and saying well you know in general this is what we're doing in other places but we're not giving people like hard and fast examples so like in my last job we actually redid the Landscaping part of the code and we gave people two to three different options for each type of buffer yard so it wasn't just you know one way every time it was like these are equivalent you know or you can propose something that we think is equivalent otherwise and it was based on the technical Review Committee which at the time was a group it wasn't just one person and it wouldn't fluctuate a lot because you would have planning department engineering surveyor office you know several people looking at it at the township level we don't really have the luxury of doing that unless we kind of create a committee but we can at least put in a couple options and still give them like a way out um and the other thing we did that I I found useful when I started doing research is we put a list of plants you could not plant near the ride of way or certain easements like storm water easements so for example anything that that was a

fruit or nut bearing tree could not be planted by the road or in a storm water area because you didn't want it dropping and you know becoming a problem hitting a car or getting the drains full yep you could buy a cultivate a cultivar that did not bear so the same type of tree but not one that would actually drop the fruit or nut or whatever and then also we added you couldn't put not invasive species in there and you couldn't put weak wooded things in there so like a Bradford Paar nope because they are horrible you can't even buy them now yeah and then like the U silver Maples I had three at my first house and they just dro all the time and so what we were doing is C looking at a lot of different places what was in their codes and I would write down the scientific name the common name and then I would write down for people to see in the code the reason why it was in there so that they could understand and then if they wanted it on their private property that was fine as long as it didn't go out into the road or they want to clean up their own property that's one thing but you know getting in an easement or a rideway is a whole other thing so that's another thing I think that would be kind of useful to have in our code um and I've done research on that already so it would just be a matter of like you know how much do we want to Tinker with our buff yards we still go ahead you have a uh resource from the parks and Rex committee I can't think of his name right now but he that's he's an arborist yeah could you give me his name I I I actually not you said I remember somebody told me he he was on that group yeah I I'll get it to you um they have a meeting coming up I was going to try to make because we're looking at um applying for a grant and it would involve maybe making an adjustment to the parks plan getting some feedback from them we need to keep some flexibility

though in the past we've we've taken the adjacent Property Owners desires into into consideration in case with Walmart we they they really wanted privacy fencing instead of any type of plannings and so privacy fencing is what so fencing is something you can add in there or a wall or BM yeah and you can say like it's a combination of these things right and I think the way we had it in there way I had it drafted is it was it would allow for you to reduce the size of the buffer yard potentially by like maybe half or something depending on how it was done and what type of fence it was you couldn't use a Slatt fence you know like chain link with a slat in it that was not not allowed anywhere um especially for buffer yard purposes um so I can I can draw on that I think the biggest thing is going to be you know I think the acceptable unacceptable plant list is probably about the same because it's the same area like literally if you go 30 miles west like it's the same area like latitude right so your zone is the same for planting pretty much right it's not like or this North and South where like it might be warmer by five degrees or something in one place than the other um so I I can work on that I think there there probably going to be some differences on on the buffer yards you know like the area where I worked previously was more of a a more rural area the Lots tended to be bigger um but I think we can sprinkle some of the same stuff in there that one will take a little longer though cuz we might have more to talk about on that okay and then I got to figure out where to strategically put it in the code I may have to talk to Cory about that

one and then what we might do is eventually what would be nice is instead of having any reference to it another area of the code like the plan development maybe take that out and just cross reference that other section you know what I mean so that if it's landscaping for example where I used to work it was always article um oh no I'm not worked there for a while it was always article 22 I think 23 res site plan 24 was Transportation I think it was 22 21 or 22 was one or the other and that was the entirety of what it encapsulated was Landscaping so you knew if it was Landscaping related it was in that section of code every time so that I would instead of having like different sections that refer to like different standards like it' be better to have it all in one place right like what we've done with auxiliary structures we reference out a sub article for yeah auxiliary structures yep okay so that's the way I would like to try to do it I think it's a good idea and we have more that I could talk about but I think that's enough for now unless you guys if you guys particularly want to um talk about anything that's a resolution related item it might already be on here but let me know and I can I can consider adding that in here too and it's just going to be a matter of like what we have time to do well at one it wasn't I guess it was last year we had a case where on Old 74 uh a storage facility was was was was being proposed and it was this gravel issue you know where and we were talking about they every all their the entire surface was going to have to become impervious surface and it it made sense that that you know maybe the entrance was paved but the rest of it could could remain you know could prvious a gravel uh and we were talking about then then that that that gravel paid requirement in general for all types applications do

we just need to make sure that the first 50 feet is paid and then beyond the 50 Feet it can be uh optional to have alternative Paving instead of something impervious is anything is is that one still on the list we yeah it's actually right below the lighting standard note that I have so I still have it on here and it's actually one of the it's actually one of the only two other ones I didn't talk about that I had starred okay so it's on there okay um I don't know from a staff perspective like if the zoning inspector and administrator have strong feels and or the administrator have strong feelings about it my thought is like especially if you don't have a dust problem which is part of the issue and it's not going to tear up the road which is generally one of the other major issues then and in some cases it might and especially if it's not visible then like okay what what are we really trying to accomplish here you know yeah especially if it's 50 feet back I mean off the road if you've got the first 50 feet paved how does that you know how requiring the rest of it to be paved does that make make a difference for somebody's driveway or for for a storage facility where you know especially on limited lot size where you've got buildings you know covering most of the area to me having gravel in there to allow some water drainage just made perfect sense but yet we couldn't permit that because our our code didn't allow it yeah I thought that was disappointed the only instance where um in our code it does not require Paving is when they're you have like an industrial use I think that's 200 feet away from a residential use if I remember right but you know is that really the only instance that like that really makes sense I mean no I I I think it it it could be apply more like you said you should probably you know a conversation with with Scott and Cory and and see what their take is on it but I I don't have a problem with saying 50 ft and you

can have gravel beyond that or other types maybe baving Stones I mean you legitimately you could just put baving stones down and have a pave service you know but we should we allow for in certain circumstances as far as like if somebody's putting like for example like a vehicle on their property and it's not in the driveway sometimes we'll tell them as long as they put a hard surface underneath of it so it won't sink in the yard that's what they've allowed them to do that so yeah that was one of the only other two I had that was starred I think the other one that I had here was just to take that um section on Accessory standards and maybe do a small table for it that's like a quick reference kind of like what we have in article six for the different zones because that's kind of a long section and sometimes when you're looking for a quick answer you got to go through quite a bit of that section to find what you're looking for so that was the only other thing was to maybe that I had starred on the list and I've got them color coded too there's you know some that I considered more important based on what the staff talked about or what we've talked about previously but those are all the ones that I had starred so is there anything else that you guys would I don't top I mean we can we can do this again and you know as we get I think it's a good idea I think these kind of meetings are important we haven't done this rarely done this and I think it's a good good thing to do what does a parking lots pav like home I thought we had an issue one time with homans Holman's not everything in homman isn't paved yeah a lot of it isn't that the issue we had with hman at one point was they went ahead and put they graveled in a section of the lot and moved things onto it

before they had permission to and that was a problem because it was Zone residential I think and they were going ahead and using it as part commercial operation discovered during Co yeah thereabouts yep we could see it on the aerial was pretty clear and then they came in and they were asking to get a permit on a storm water feature and it was like even more it's like well now we definitely have to do something because now we we can we can tie it to an act that we've looked at the area for then it's like now we can't look away and not acknowledge it's not happened it was one of the first six months I think I was here yeah I was going to say that's been a while ago yeah there so many you can easily get dustless gravel now I mean when I do landscaping around my house and I want to gravel I put a barrier down a good heavy duty barrier and then I use that number 57 dustless where it's been washed and it there's no no dust I mean I don't drive on it or anything but it's it's dustless I mean you can do that with a it's more expensive fres Limestone packs down just like concrete yeah ites yeah I I did that for my trailer pull off yeah based it I've got like 15inch base of number two and three okay and then I've got about four inches of the fine and I just rented a tamper and spent the weekend just running it back and forth and you can't even dig in it it's so hard yeah no that's all that's I don't have any other resolution issues okay have a just a yes thought um I'm not exactly sure I should look through the code a little closer but do we have anything regarding residential adus adus oh yeah for residential use so interesting someone just talked to me about this the other day and um I had that I have that on my list and when I brought it up in the past it is basically been said that the township is

not really supportive of has not been supportive of passing such a thing um passing what P passing such a code like to allow for someone to have an accessory dwelling unit like a second little residence that could be detached or like a mother-in-law's house or part of an an accessory building like a detached garage or pole bar or whatever and it's interesting because like it's pretty common compared to what it was 10 years ago there's you drive around here you'll see a few of them yeah but almost none of them are legal no but having a second house on on a single lot on the same lot oh yeah it's a living unit it does not necessarily a house it's almost like an apartment in most cases yeah like a loft in a barn or detach garage that's got a build over on it okay they could be a lot of times they they call him a mother and lost weep sometimes for the kids not as a separate structure has to be attached that has to be attached yep so I have it on here somewhere you can do that with a clo line yeah I I was going to say a covered walkway with well yeah that's you attach anything to the house it becomes legal just so that's that's what it was okay I just know that like uh I Know clar M County they're doing house study right now and one of the things that they're looking at is adus M as a recommendation is what as a recommendation uh adus as a was a recommendation to provide more housing at different price points yeah I have it on the first page you're calling it Adu unit oh oh I have not heard that term before I couldn't figure out what you were saying with Adu I'm having a

little bit of trouble hearing I'm approaching hearing aid time and trying to fight that I can put that one on on there to sound out what's going on I just know that it's been like we had one case go to the board of Zone appeals where somebody basically was trying to do the same thing it was a little different that they came in for a permit and then not and then not acknowledged that on the permit that it was for a storage structure and then what they actually dropped off on the lot was a mobile home or manufactured home or whatever and then so it was misleading and then the use had nothing to do with storage for Mom Mother so that had they went about it from the beginning the correct way I don't know that it would have went as bad as it did but you know in that case they dropped it there and as they were trying to get skirted or whatever they they we got over there and stopped them and then the Zone inspector had to go up there and stop the electric from being connected or whatever um but in doing the research related to that and then talking about it it's like I could only find one instance that it was allowed and any we were talking about this again the other day because someone called about it and um the zoning inspector said he couldn't remember any I was like well when I researched it I could find one in our in our history but there was like a peculiar circumstance with it like maybe it was a living unit at one point and than it wasn't then they were asking for it to be again right so I was definitely curious about it because it is something that you see um and it's not always for the Mother-in-law because sometimes the birds are not leaving the nest longer right right especially like like I don't know the last five or 10

years so having a cot set up in my garage that's okay you know somewhere somewhere when I get kicked out when I get kicked so that so in that scenario you know sometimes like it's more of a health issue right the unfortunate thing is the Health Department issues are not always well enforced and so then it kind of becomes like an issue where zoning has to step in and it was the same way my last job um sometimes we have to be more involved with things that I would consider more of a health issue sometimes we have to be more involved in things I would consider to be a building code issue an example on that in both places is also pools you know like we're the ones that deal with the the uh pool enclosure here more so probably than the building department even though it's in the building code and I would argue 100 out of 100 times it should be enforced by the building department not the zoning people because it's a building code and it's in their Co it's literally in the in the the books for them right the only reason it's in the zoning code here and the only reason it was in the zoning code my last job is because they have no confidence that it's going to be enforced by the building inspectors the county yes and it was the same way at my last job now they'll go after them if they don't get a permit at all but they don't always get them for like the enclosure right so I mean it just is what it is unfortunately you know sometimes we end up citing stuff that I think we shouldn't have to but I can say having worked with a lot of different types of communities it's like that everywhere so I can I can ask about it as far as like the ad use because I just got a call about it the other day and I had

actually meant to bring it up anyways just to kind of see if anybody wanted me to bring it up because I gathered from previous experience talking to people it was not real popular and I don't know what all the reasons for that is but I'll see if I get my head bit off if I bring it up I I think it's what it our Township is changing I mean we are there's there's changes going on we're becoming uh we've seen a dramatic increase in businesses uh and and the business is affecting housing and the businesses uh are are affecting the types of Housing and what the people want in in housing and what they want to be able to do on their property and and and and to make uh it a lot more efficient and adus my and I have very little experience with it but I I I can see the feasibility of of of that and if the if the there's enough land for it if there's enough space and certainly there have to be the right size lot for it but why would you restrict that I I I'm not seeing a viable or I'm not seeing the rationale behind restricting it if the lot is of appropriate size that it could be an auxiliary structure or an Adu I mean if if if we permit an auxiliary structure rure in that place why wouldn't we permit an Adu I I I don't understand that with adus you still have the primary use like which is traditionally like a you know single family house right the other thing that often would come up other than the Adu is like what we you would otherwise consider a tiny home which right is a similar subject but is totally different because a tiny home means that's like maybe the only home on that lot and can be vastly disproportionate on the acreage that it sits on and so again my last job the the track sizes were

larger in part because it was unincorporated area so you had septic systems where you had to have at least an acre if you put a tiny home on an acre that's a vastly different looking situation or more right and I actually had people tell me that you know they wanted to own a tiny home at least initially for example because like you know the young people want to buy the land early and then as they get older they can you know upgrade as say as they want or whatever well you know you're talking about it looks kind of odd if somebody would buy five 10 20 acres and then they put a tiny home on it especially if it's near all these other homes that are bigger nicer homes when I when I left my last job they were still kind of working out what to do with all that and here it's like no because there's no allowance if it's not meeting the square footage requirement but adus are probably would of the two I would say the adus will would potentially be able to gain traction quicker than a tiny home would here I'm not saying a tiny home is impossible but I think that you might have to have a tiny home Community almost to make it work that's possible but I we got to be open to change as because things are changing and and and people have to do more with less money and and less funds and less space and and you have to really you you have to be careful of having a bias against allowing something just because that's always been something that we didn't allow and you have to really take a hard look at it I think and and and see really what's my concern here what what's what's the problem am I am I looking at is this purely aesthetic is there a safety issue issue I'm not seeing a a safety issue if the house has built to code uh those are the things that we have to take a hard look at and maybe some people aren't willing to do

that but I'm I'm willing to do that if you uh for instance I've got er I've got a two acre line and I put an Adu on it and fast forward 15 years well now we want to sell that Adu off separately you know you run into that issue of splitting the splitting the lot which it's ER so you you'd have to have a zone change right and you know do we want to do we want to get into that you know that that's just one of the potential I mean if somebody does that they have to be aware that they may not get the zone change and be able to split it all and and that's just has to be brought up up front you know hey you can you know if if that were to become permissible then that has to be part of the conversation that happens when the zoning permit is being requested that you know that down the road this can't be split right you know unless you apply for zone change and you may or may not get a zone change authorization so that those are the things that have to be discuss but I I'm I'd rather see deal with instead of people just doing it I'd rather see them come here because we do allow in some instances um otherwise you end up with the ones that it's a storage shed you know but there's actually somebody living at yeah I know in a couple cases like we've had some pretty deplorable conditions reported and sometimes the police are just as involved as anybody else in that scenario so it's in a way it's kind of like there's some similarities in that in the situation where some people are biased against rentals they think all rentals are bad but not all rentals were bad I was a renter until I had the means to you know buy a house you know which I

was in my early 20s still when we bought our first house and um you know I was a good renter I I mean I probably made every place I rented just as Nic or nicer than the landlord had it but to me the renter situation the renter is not totally at fault because the landlord is like the parent and the renter is like the child your child if you don't enforce things is going to try to get away with stuff right so at some point the onus really becomes as much or more on the landlord I've dealt with a lot of bad landlords in trying to enforce codes in other places and in some cases it's the same landlord over and over and over again and you got a handful of them right and they own a surprisingly in some cases shocking amount of rentals and they're just letting them fall apart not taking care of them right um um I think things can be done to a good standard and you can also in this case if you want to compare it you can take a perfectly nice looking house and make it look bad you know you got that guy that's in the news on and off for painting his house pink and then you know writing people's names on it and it's not in Union Township but it's in one of the adjoining townships yeah and that's a nice looking house why would you do that there people do some peculiar things and you can take the smaller structure and it can look really nice for what it is it I me it's the same as our next topic you can have good multi family developments and there are bad multif family developments and and we've got like you look at the top tier Echelon for instance where it's you know it's exceptionally high-end good multif family development then you look at other ones where the police are almost visiting nightly for issues and and that's one of the things I want I want to talk about those you so you can you can direct a multif family be developed

properly and of of a of a quality and a level that is going to be attractive and and beneficial to the community overall or you can do a bad you know bad multif family and and that's what we have to be careful of doing you can do the same thing with I would say an Adu you can make sure it's going to be uh appropriately built it's it's going to be a positive for the for the community as opposed to uh a sore thumb sticking out negative and those are things we just have to manage well we could transition to that but is there anything before we transition to those things that you guys wanted to cover otherwise I do know that was on your list yeah yeah no it makes sense to at least explore the possibility of doing this I agree with Mr Lewis in that a blanket no doesn't make a lot of sense but if there are procedures whereby we can ensure that it's being done properly and that it's not being a nuisance and it's being done for the right reasons on the right kind of lots it makes sense you know we we should be here to within reason allow people to do what they want to do with their property and also to Mr outr Rich's Point why the Count's talking about these kind of things is we we are in a housing shortage renting is an economic reality for a lot of people and are we going to be a Township that's more inclusive for more people who want to living live here living here or are we going to try to to boxs that out and the the position has generally been we do want people here and we've approved many different types of construction to to Mr Lewis's Point Echelon you know really good high value projects that allow a range of living opportunities for people who want to be part of this community

yes en want people to we don't want moving out that's happening a lot of other places I mean people right now are being kind of forced to to go wherever they can it's just the the reality of it is there are too many people who want places to live and a lot of those people unfortunately can't afford to buy property and they can't afford they they've got to rent so do you want to have nice rental opportunities or nice opportunities for people to live in or or not I agree well we can transition then to one of the two topics you wanted to talk about yeah let's talk we we had discussed multif family now I I printed out the information at uh Mr McCormack and his his staff uh in case you hadn't had a chance to do it I does every anybody see this what was the this is the email that went out it's got the the chart there I was initially a little surprised at the at the at the numbers but after a lot of thought and and uh examination I I'm not overly uh concerned about the numbers like I said our our you look at the amount of percentage it's multif family and it's 4% uh residential multif family compared to 40% single family and and I don't consider that with the the nature of our our Township and and the changes we're seeing with businesses coming in and and growing this is the kind of uh and and the kind of developments that and and the kind of environment that these people are looking for that to to live in and and especially short term and then possibly long term but the uh my concern would be is more not Mike I think we need to be focused on the the high quality developments and I know that's that's something that is already always encouraged by the zoning staff when a developer comes in to propose something

and and I I think that sticking with that requirement for high quality multif family is is Paramount to is something we need to really focus on require my concern is the expansion of existing multif family developments and is it an expansion of a good existing multif family development or a not so good multif family development and so we today get input from the fire department uh on on safety and and and what all could could go wrong and and what all needs to be done to make this safe I think we should on an existing development when we're looking at expansion of existing development I think we should get input from the police dep Department uh what has been your experience with this facility is this something where you you are going to a lot and and and having a lot of calls if so what the nature of the calls I mean are they domestic are they nuisance uh do they have a homeowners association I know we we send police out to uh deal with you know barking dogs nuisances and in in a lot of cases the Home Owners Association should deal with that it should have regulations that you know people are are packed in close together and they shouldn't be able to have a dog that barks all the time or uh in the middle of the night or or constantly during the day and but they don't have a strong homeowners association that enforces that then we have to rely on the police to make those calls and do that so if we have uh an expansion in of an existing development in front of us I'd like to hear from the police department on on what their experience has been with that development and and if it is a worthwhile if we perceive it to be a worthwhile expansion then i' I'd really like to see that the the quality uh requirement is impressed upon the developer or the applicant uh and they they proceed accordingly with high quality developments and I I I don't I don't you even though these numbers you look at them initially and they look like they're they're high I I don't

think overall they really are that high not not for how our Township is is transitioning and and and the amount of business that we're bringing in uh and the new business look at the uh what's the logistics company off of 27 that is like expanded third time yeah and and that's a huge development there's more development going on in that Park uh it's going to be bringing we've got a hospital or a a medical facility going in there children types those people are going to be looking for initially possibly multif family or or single family that's clustered together in tight spaces where there's a lot of shared open space those are the kind of things that we need to be more and we are open to that but I I think we're going to see more of that and the little bit of land we have yet to develop and we don't have a lot of undeveloped develop land that that isn't already develops and and I don't I don't think that uh as additional multif family is an issue uh just the quality of it and and taking a hard look at the request to expand an existing one what does anybody else have feelings on this mike um I have actually Mark I don't know if you're able to pull up on the screen um where I work we have a housing data dashboard that will be will be um well demoed at the zoning thing that we're going to on Friday for everyone to see but there's some good data in there I don't know if there's a way to bring that up I can show you uh I don't have the screen okay down but I can I mean we could look at it here next time it's on the oki's website yeah it's um there's a there's a housing model that we did that looks at within Union Township and other jurisdictions as well price points number of bedrooms and owner and Runner preferences app section yeah I could walk over here and show you is it like the fiscal impact model basically maps and apps these are numbers of you corre correct this is one of the things that I think a

lot of the people that I hear from that are tired of they see these kind of numbers you get five you know that would in this case I know it's not 10 eight times right and that's that's what the development over at the schools right but but again A lot of times we're we're far out if you look at you know it's double in the and and it's because I I think for and I I saw the same thing it shocked me when I saw it until I realized in the past we've been actually way behind you look at the the the percentage and it's only 4% right of the land of the land and and so and the kind of businesses that are coming in are attracting people that want these types of to live in and and I think quality development to shot so you know when they talk about like tql my's husband just keep going the dashboard and there's a lot of people there can't afford that highend stuff and consequently they're living in some of the we can't right nebor there's a need for there's a need for more single family by far but yep and drop down menu Ty is driving all this right now is profit but we're seeing you know you we're seeing a lot of uh clustered uh Town Homes uh and and there single family the R4 uh think uh yeah the high density single family high density single family and and that's like in an area in between traditional single family and multif family you've got yeah I'm okay with that it's it's when we go back to building the old okay uh so I gots yeah I three and four stor

we we have it up now oh okay um so one of the things that we've found with Union Township is so anywhere you see a taller blue bar that's where you that that's where there's a need and any s you're good and anywhere you see a taller Red Bar we have over Supply so one of the things that we you've noticed is that um regionally we've seen a decrease in average household size and a major increase in a lot of people living by themselves and so because of that you see a lot um on the one and two bedroom markers where those blue bars are much taller particularly at the mid and lower price point uh it looks like we have a over supply of three and four bedroom midpoint and upper Point U well three bedroom units at the high end and then the middle end those two red bars in the middle are taller than the blue ones and then are these multi family or single family it's it's all inclusive all inclusive okay yeah so um so part of the reason why we're seeing a lot of developers coming in putting in a lot of more apartment units is they're tapping into that market at the lower end there with the one two bedrooms but they're also building a lot of the high-end ones but actually from a cost perspective you know there's there's a much more demand in that middle and lower end price point too which is which is always a hard part we don't see many of the four more bedroom especially like the rentals yeah so this would be you know where you have your your your single family homes typically or your four bedrooms that they build new three or four bedroom ones um make manes yeah yeah and actually according to this looks like there's a need for higher end four bedroom units um or more um because there's a taller bar there but we have over Supply in the Middle Market which is actually kind of funny when you see that so so what we're seeing though is this this is just probably driven just based

on the economy of yeah I I want a one bit an apartment that's going to cost me ,000 a month right I can't afford the two bedom is so the the demand is there right um and it's I'd like you know what would be neat is to see the historical trending of that yeah and actually you made a point that you were wanting to maybe had this presented at a a meeting like yeah and I the idea a while back was to get maybe a group meeting with the trustees but that's been kind of hard to do yeah but I think that would still be a good thing if we could arrange such a thing yeah um well even at our next meeting or maybe try to tie it into a trustee meeting and invite the zoning commission to be at that meeting that might be the only way we can really do it if they don't have a working meeting anymore because I don't know that they're doing working meetings this year but I mean I could see if we can get done that way yeah because this is a it's a pretty good resource for that I mean we even track single family rental conversions this so where you have those real estate companies buying up lots of single family homes and having them as rental H having you um do your profile was something that we were interested in it was just I get got follow up on it no it's all good but I I thought this would be useful for this conversation you know it's kind of show I agree I think it's very useful yeah we'll play around the next couple days because I've not used it yet I know some of the apps from Oki pretty well I was one involved with fiscal impact model whenever that was first started I was one of the few that helped start it and stick around for a long time but I I've not used it here yet I gotta and we're going to see a presentation of this on yeah it'll be that's the housing one that my colleague Andy Meyer is doing did that one yep he was a project lead on this I just provided all the data yeah he was involved with fiscal impact he was involved with the fiscal impact model analysis after they got started with he wasn't there in the

beginning but then he when he started there he kind of picked up the Manel for that project too so I I know him pretty well yeah but that was one thought I had and then two other thoughts I had in this kind of conversation uh one of the things we're kind of noticing obviously with Brook and mor retail um a lot of those places are you know those those chains are declaring bankruptcy and so I know that like the occupancy at least around the Eastgate area seems to be pretty reasonably full at the moment um we' got a Joanns closing yeah yeah we got the Joanns going is ours for sure closing yes all the Jo ads are closing Oh I thought they had only they announced they just announced all because it had only been so many hundred before they're closing them all now and selling off all the assets but one of the thoughts I had on This was um does that commercial like because I know it's really intensive commercial uh within the code there do we allow multif family on any of that area because I keep noticing that we're building multif family on green development on the edges and I'm wondering if it would be reasonable because the parking is already there you know are you talking about like over by we in an area like commercial is that what you yeah any of the Comm any of the big commercial districts so Jo area only thing we've discussed is in the mall that that was discussed during that some of the mall evaluation options what can we do with the Eastgate Mall and we had that at yeah Village that's the only time I know that we discussed that in an ideal world that would all be Zone PD but it's not um it's all his own business right um but it could be changed to PD yeah but they've got to be inv involved with it someone has to be involved with it and right now that's not that particular site's not going to happen um for like let's say the owner of that Plaza that you're talking about I think that's also

his own business and we would probably tell them they want wanted to they would have to go to a PD zone to do that so a lot of the property where you're seeing the mix of use is there their Zone PD yeah I gota yeah I was wondering that once you get away from the 275 yeah interchange and where the mall is once you get very far away from that instead of seeing a lot of red for commercial you start to seeing a lot of green which is PD I see yeah there's a ton of PD more closer to here in that gleny Withamsville area and klepper and over here by um Sam's Club and Walmart like a lot but then once you start there's a transition area as you go more West towards that interchange and everything and then there's a little area South where Ivy point is that's all PD but other than that around The Interchange North is all business if it's commercial or mixed use I see well that's helpful to know that it goes that way because I'm just I'm just I'm getting a little nervous with that all that commercial there in the future Market where that's going I mean I think if it's going to be redeveloped it's especially if it's going to be redeveloped on a bigger scale we're probably looking at a eventually like a PD across the board M for the all that area I gota the ker they out of that they're still in their current building but I was I've heard that their lawsuit is supposed to be resolved in by the end of March I think okay I don't I mean who knows I mean somebody could file and it could take longer but that's what I've heard I gotta I hope so and then just the last point I had on this uh with multif family particular there's a concept in housing research called filtering so when you build a new luxury apartment building the last one that was built that was new starts you know they they can only raise it so much they can't compete with the newest and best thing

so over time as buildings age and things like that you kind of see us stepping down in the rents or kind of based on what's at the asking rent you know you can't ask as much as the brand new thing and so one of the issues that you run into um this is padil this is you know the what is that the V1 Royal Oak you know all those apartments once they reach like 253 years you know where you're starting to see major mechanical things that need to be replaced big components of those projects if you have an absente landlord that's not making those regular Investments you often see rapid sales so they self to an investor and then to another one and then to another one and that's always a red flag um in the work and research with when it comes to like the concerns about police and all that where you start to see that one potential just thought I had on this is have we ever had any multif family projects that have reached that age ever go to Condominiums like have they ever been condominium IED because there's I'm looking at a project it's around the corner for my house it's it's the shayer Glenn apartment and then next to it they have condos and those condos they sell for 100,000 like today yeah and it's like that's a very good that's a good price point for that's a great price point to start out at so I'm kind of wondering if we have like have there ever been any of that where you have those because there's we have a lot of 1970s 1980s apartment complexes around in the township yeah I don't I can't answer that off hand I'm sure our administrator would be able to answer that better than I K because he's I'm not I'm not aware of anything but that's something I might not be aware of I mean that wouldn't have come come to us for for that and that's that's a possibility that's a great idea um I I know there's a pro two projects I can think of where they have been updating things that are probably around

the same time period what you're saying MH one I think is in a was in a CRA with the county I think mhm the other one I'm not for sure but they ones around Mount Carmel near the park there reacing to the park there right they were updating that one a year or two ago and that's how I ended up getting the township another eight almost another acre of ground they basically donated it for us to pay for a survey so we're working hard to try to improve the mount carel Park which nobody knows about because you can't park there yeah um or or you have to do it in the street basically um um and then the other place was I think it was over by Summerside um but whether or not they've just renovated it and they're renting them out versus condos I'm not really sure mhm um there's potential for that yeah sure I was just wondering because there's a there's a multif family complex that's on the corner of kuuf and Mount Carmel behind the gas station I look at the roof on that building I drive past it regularly and they've had a tarp on that thing for at least six months really that building has a history going way back of being like that well I'm taking notes on some of this and then of course we're recording so I can always go back and yeah go over some of these but um we'll definitely we'll have the when we had the SC up be we'll look at the housing data dashboard one of our meetings more I'll we'll play around with it look at it as a staff I knew I had heard of it but I didn't I've not been on it yet okay and then I'll send you some information so we can get the demographic so Andy Meyer was the guy

you work with yeah Andy Meyer is the one that uh is a project lead on that and I'm actually currently working on a demographics dashboard for the region as well it's just not ready yet how long is that what's your projection on getting that finished uh I should have that done probably um well all the data is in there now it's just I don't have the the technical skills to actually design and build it in shiny like to actually build the dashboard that's in our GIS Department right now um but the the timeline on that is probably for the summer oh that's not bad it's going to take a minute but there's a lot of good data in there for they sure you still doing all that yep okay um yeah that'll be interesting to see that so for any uh uh either uh high density single family or close density or the multif family can re we start requesting the homeo the HOA rules and regulations submitted we we can request whatever we want it' be better can we require it yeah I was going to say requesting versus requiring is kind of the key if we want to require it then we it either needs to be in the code or we need to specify on the application form which it's probably better to have it on the in the if you really really want it but if we put it on the application form and it says so on the application form a lot of times that's enough to get what you need so we can try that approach potentially that that would probably be the simplest one to implement first right because I I think seeing what the developer is willing to take responsibility for within their development is is important to the way we make decisions and and what what types of things are you know are they really taking responsibility for what goes on on and and to minimize the amount of external uh intervention it has to occur from the police department uh in involved in whether it's even you know no matter what the development is I I think HOA uh if it's if a development's being presented us and as Z changes

being requested I think it's reasonable to request the HOA to to see what are you going to take responsibility for in this in this development clustering people together and I'd like to see that and then I'd like also on any type of EXP expansion of an existing development uh see get some police input uh how are is this a a place that you visit regularly or not you know and if so what types of situations and any of you would object to that no more that's a request more data we have smarter we can be I think so too yeah I mean like we were saying before the meeting and just talking about a you know General topics not related to Z sometimes though ignorance is is bliss and some you can have too much information too sometimes and make it more complicated um but yeah I think we can we one of the other things that's not z um code related that that I've got on my list is to you know look at making changes to the application forms because there sometimes isn't information that we want on there and sometimes that's like what we're talking about now and sometimes it's a field that we might might want to track that we haven't been tracking and sometimes the forms have information that might be information we really don't need right so like remove and replace right um so that's another that's another one of the items I have on my list is for us to work on the application forms and and that we can tie what we're talking about now maybe in with that because we we get put from the fire department you know it's health safety welfare of the community and and getting input from the police department on on what what type of situation are we are we getting ready to make a bad situation worse or or not you know that that's the

kind of you know information that I think we need to have to make good decisions from as a zoning committee so when we get the fire information I don't know and I'll have to ask about this that they're always without us asking going to give us the information regarding their calls so it's probably a good conversation for us to talk about with the fire and EMS people as well because if the police are getting a lot of calls to a place they may also be getting a lot of fireing EMS runs to the places as well and so we may want to make sure with that we're asking for all of that information I think that's a good idea and I it it could make things more complicated but I think that's our job I I think our Township is getting more complicated and and more diverse and I think these are things we have to take a you know as as we continue developing what there is left to develop we need to to do it right and I I think that's information that I'm willing to go through and read and after I retire make sure all of you do it as well I'm G come and watch the meetings and say did you check this out you're going to come watch the meetings you just need to come stay here um so I mean one other thing I would say about that is in some of the other communities I've seen and talking about this very thing in the past I know at least in Indiana when I worked in Indiana there were some communities that were trying to and in some cases they did pass kind of like a nuisance fee or tax on places where they constantly had to make runs because of nuisances that were being created where you had like a hotel that was a problem or you know maybe a apartment building that was a problem they would give you so many calls on a certain time period and after that it was like okay now it's now you're a nuisance and so it was it was to try to deter you know bad landlording and man management of property you know you got to screen your people you got to manage your people otherwise you need

kick them out right because they're just it's kind of like kids like if you don't punish them how they're not and and consistently punish them then like they're not going to learn they can't do this and get away with it so um has has to it's it's about teaching responsibility um holding them accountable so I don't know if if that's that that that particular tact could be ultimately used here we'd have to see if it's something in Ohio would allow period let alone to the township because sometimes it might be allowed in like a you know like a Incorporated area but not necessarily A Township that would be the other thing but um as we're looking into these things that's another thing we might want to that we'll probably if we're going to spend the time looking into these things we'll probably check that out too okay I I know we have had places like a particular hotel for example where we were having a lot of runs is that right to a particular place oh yeah you know yeah I mean there's one there were one or two of them they were hitting a lot same place over and over again and um Township has considered trying to approach that situation in a similar fashion not in the same fashion was like a nuisance um see that would that my request the request for uh police input would would apply to cases in the past where we have you know improved what's the track you know track record on on this hotel or similar types of developments and and what can we expect uh an approved development you know uh what kind of uh nuisance or or issues or resource concern assumption would would these require could they potentially require well cool I think that covers

the M family unless anyone else has anything else I just what is exempt 22% of our property is exemp government okay um could be state owned okay which can be school property as well all right could churches all right so it's it's basically non- taxpaying mhm okay is the nature Center in that figure I think so okay so like maybe like a big nonprofit own area like that okay is that it is it yeah I think actually this this information would be something that a lot of residents would probably appreciate so we are working on until we do an update of the comprehensive plan we're also working on a community profile which we could update again whenever we get you know information from Oki for example and I had created one on my last job and I had shown Corey um what I had done because I'd seen another place to do it and they were much bigger like the size of Claremont County are bigger as a whole and I was like you know we can do better than that and we're small and we did right and it was a really useful like I don't know maybe 10 page little book and you had demographic information housing information trans Transportation information you had Community contacts in there um and if but the nice thing about it was whether you're a resident or someone who was just doing research on a community it was a it was very eye-catching in the cover and then it was very easy to flip through there and see what you wanted to see quickly and so that's what we we've been working on okay and we're setting it up to be very similar um in terms of the layout we're just shifting the color scheme to be more like Union Township and then working on the some of the pictures because I had I I would take some pictures and then I had a a

professional photographer got permission to use his images and I just had to put a credit for him yep so the only other part we were working on other than like the editing on our end for our stuff is the pictures so and when we get that up like I always do it on the main page as like a highlighted item so you couldn't miss it and then we would update it every [Applause] year Well to the extent we could some numbers were kind of static for a longer period but like if you we had like a road count or transportation service that we were referencing and they would update their numbers we would get that so all right last it one more thing you wanted to go over one one more thing and it's just a few minutes it's the the motion formats uh it's probably time to take a serious look at at changing our motion format or updating the motion format our motion format's different than the trustees do we need to be more in line with that and that's I'm I'm ready to turn I've been managing these now for a while and i' I'd like to turn them back over to you Mark and let you decide uh and your team decide what what should our motion format be what what makes the most sense are we doing things in our motions now that that is not useful uh is not necessary we reference the 2030 plan we we reference a specific Focus area that it's in are those useful things for the trustees and this would be input from the trustees uh would require is it time to update that again it's it's been the Legacy for 20 years now uh that we've been using that format and longer 25 I guess so uh I think turning that over to to you and your staff and and and then and then that those formats I think should be given to as we get new zoning commission members that's part of the training that the zoning commission new met members should

get is get an update of the formats an explanation of the of the rational behind the format uh whated them you know they should be looking at the 2030 plan they should read through the 2030 plan they should read through the resol zoning resolution especially sections we deal with plan development and and multif family all of it not necessarily all at once don't want to overwhelm a new member and say you know what this isn't for me you've got to attract people in but I I think having that that being familiar with our our uh our growth plan our our zoning resolution and the formats of what em motion is and and I think that takes some of the Mystique or the or the fear out of making a motion if they have a format to work with so uh it's it's probably time to it is time to take a hard look at it and uh I'm up for any changes you would recommend sure I know when I first relatively started working here we went over some of that and um I know that when we get whenever I've gotten a new board member in in this job my last job I would try to meet with them you know I give them a copy of our code book um you know our comprehensive plan um I Ohio in the last year has updated it's very outdated um guide book for planning in Ohio and so we have that it's maybe about a year old and it covers a wide variety of topics some that this board doesn't deal with because you don't deal with subdivision regulation here um um so it's not as relevant as if you were then if you were working with the county you would have to use it but what we can do is we can scan or whatever Snippets of that in Indiana we had the Indiana citiz and planner guide and it's funny because I was the on the board in Indiana and I was the person that helped update that and I was the essentially like the editor for that and helped tweak things and work with each author

of each area um and then Ohio updated it because they saw I guess you know in part like we had updated ours and ours was free like we just put it on the web for everybody Ohio you got to pay for the book it's in a very nice book form um but I would share that and I would carve out the first most relevant things for a new member to read um there's some other basic references I might give someone um and I would refer to them to the code like hey if this is what you're doing most important to you probably in your job would be articles so so and so and um and then just see if they have any questions and then if we have that demographic profile in there I probably throw that in there as well and I usually just try to I mean that's what I did with Michael when when he was um appointed as an alternate and I also met with the all the other people if I could get them to meet with me and so we do kind of try to do an orientation okay especially if they've not been involved in the past um now you know with potentially two of you not being on the zoning commission next year it's kind of a matter of um you know one do the alternates have an interest in being back on the board and do they have the time if they're not both able to do it and interested to do it and the trustees are not both in are agreement in both situations then you do you have potentially you know one or two two new board members not just alternates and so it'll be kind of interesting to see how that plays out no matter what we're going to need two bodies right I can be an alternate if he gets to be an issue I can certain be an alter i' always be there if you get in a pinch okay that's good to know yeah can alternate's chair of the commission

no no they cannot you you're just taking a year off but but what I find instructive uh with the motion template and I've used it uh since Mr Lewis shared it um is I find that in preparing uh cases uh that reviewing the motion template in preparation you know you're not obviously you're not prejudging the case before you hear it but just putting yourself in that mindset and again looking at the Horizon 2030 plan and going like you know what do you see in it and sort of preparing it that way that the the current motion template really helps distill kind of thoughts and prepares you for getting into the meeting and and hearing it I I like to to sit down with it ahead of time as part of my prep and do that because that's why it's important that it it it can take you either way either the direction you need to go the things you need to consider for approving a a a request or denying a request and to walk through a findings of fact is like okay well if it ends up being like this what would I think and that and that way you're not when you're in the meeting if you have something that you want to say and you have a motion that you want to put on the table you you've got an idea about how one does that yes instead of being like I definitely have an opinion but I'm not sure how to formally Do It um the motion template um in its present form or in a in an updated form should that be necessary is really helpful uh because it will direct you obviously the the current form of the reports that we receive the staff reports always cite the relevant zoning resolutions and there's usually some snippet about obviously the 2030 plan but the 2030 plan is is so nice in how it's organized and breaks things down that when I've

prepped I've gone to the plan to be like okay this is our Corridor this is the aspect of the 2030 plan that I think is most relevant to kind of what we're talking about um as just part of my planning to do it I I think it's something that we should all have and circulate and it's it's a good tool for that I don't think I've ever seen the to Mr Lewis sent it out a few years ago it's been wow it was I I have a hard time remembering yesterday so I definitely sent it okay there's like five templates one if it's text amendments or yes plan development there's there's there's uh different different things for well once we once we get this redone we'll get them rest all right I'll commit them to Memory there you go and I think I have findings of fact templates also that I sent you guys I know I did it for the board zon pill I think I did it for zoning to but off to double check I don't recall getting getting that okay if I haven't it's not going to be hard for me to do because I have the templates I did at my last job and I also have the ones that I know I did for the bza I thought I did them for zoning commission but now I'm going to look because I don't recall it but that also makes sense bza in terms of their findings of fact are much have to be much more precise and are dictated on a case-by Case basis ours are generally generally but not always fairly routine well and and then the case of the findings of fact document there is a more or less a fill in a blank motion for you also so you might be able to consider like what you've been using and add or meld them together if you want yeah because we right now the the

current template contains lines for findings of fact but doesn't specify um anything additional other than referencing a specific section of the corridor focused District area correct yeah it's actually kind of maddening that so some things in Ohio seem to be much better than what I was dealing with in Indiana and sometimes it's vice versa and in Indiana for example on rezones it's in the state code what your five major criteria are to consider for Reon nice and if you were to write it down in Ohio I they would probably be kind of the same criteria but it's not in the state code that way and the last one is um it's the first or last one where it's you know it's a consideration and and conformance to the comprehensive plan right one of them is responsible development and growth some of them are kind of Broad and Abstract or whatever but um and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out if there was like kind of a uniform criteria on rezones particularly because you would think that they're they would have like a standard set so what what I found is that there isn't there are some cases where you'll see repeating similar text and I may have to do some homework on it again because I know I around the time I was talking to you about motions I was spending some time on that I may have them done already and maybe I just didn't send them to you or I don't know I'll look it up um it's really really nice when it's spelled out at a high level like in your state code because then you can say what are your findings what we would do on the templates is we would actually have the applicants fill them out too and turn

them in at the time of the application so that when they filled it in you could choose to agree with them or not right and if you agreed with their points then you could say yeah I think you're good here and if you disagree you could deviate at that point well they kind of do that a little bit now in the application where they L the reason for their so you know that's in the application we see their they're rationale for reasons but then they don't go through the same criteria that you would look at oh right so if you actually make them answer the very things that you're trying to oh I see question right and it's cons the same question every time it becomes an easy way it's much easier exercise at that point right either you're in agreement or you're somewhat in alignment or you're not okay so I'll I'll check because I know I spent time working on it I and I know I spent time researching the r zones particularly um I'm have to see what happened with that because I don't if you're saying I didn't send them out then maybe I didn't finish them but I know like even if I if nothing else I could pull them off the old website from Dearborn when I work over there because I know that they're part of the applications now we added them to the end of the long form so that's another part of the application process is I I want to have what we call short firms which is literally just the piece of paper that we're getting now for people that use them regularly and for people who may only come in and do a permit once or twice their whole life we would put in a long form which has instructions and a checklist for like your site plan so literally it's like a you're holding their hand telling them showing them how to do it more so than just handing them a form and they don't have any idea to do what what it is they're doing so okay I and on the long forms for like public hearings cases we would throw in the template of the findings of fact and we would have them answer certain sections like your five findings

or whatever so good deal I think we covered a lot tonight yeah I think it was a good meeting yeah of course we can you know maybe look at doing this again in March the day that we are would have a scheduled meeting I am going to be out of town so we end up having a meeting in March we would H either I wouldn't be here or we' have to move it and we didn't get any applications so I guess what I'll do is I'll talk to Corey about do we want us to draft these things and then you know run them through the trustees and have them come back to you guys which is I think the way that they were doing it in the past or do we want to start here because that's what we did the last time that we were doing like a big series of things right because I think you can do it either way it's just if they're if the trustees would prefer one way or the other or you know Cory has a preference based on something for some reason I would like to know that either way that needs to come here it's just a matter whether it starts here or not right yeah I talk to Cory I I think his Direction on that would be fine with me yeah I mean you could argue it either way because at the end of the day if the trustees have a preference in the very beginning on how to do something it'd be nice to know that instead of like spinner Wheels right and coral know yeah yeah okay well that's all I have all right I think uh on the only other thing would be administrative and I think this whole meeting is been yep all right so I think we're going to uh call the meeting let's see it's 8:31 so I'll call for adjournment uh do I have a uh motion for adjournment motion to adjourn a second second all right we've got a motion for adjournment uh Mr McCormack please call roll um Mr

Shannon yeah Mr Wing yes Mr out yes Mr Campbell yes Mr Lewis yes motion passes meeting adjourned thank you folks e