City Council - Regular Meeting

All right, it's 5:30. We'll get we'll call the meeting to order and get started. Thanks for everybody that's here tonight. Um it's good to be back. I'm still a little jetlagged, but I'm good to be back and I'm thankful for uh Councilman Phillips and and covering last week and um I still listen to it and it was a good meeting. So, thank you. We'll start tonight with a prayer. Um we we're lucky to have Pastor Pete a Aikens with us from uh the Fourquare Cedarc Foursquare Church and thank you for being here. Before we pray, um my apologies to offer the invocation then have to leave, but I've got a rehearsal I've got to get to. Um but it's an honor to be here and to be able to to offer the invocation. So let's pray. Father in heaven, um we're so grateful uh that you've given us life. Um Lord, your word reminds us that um you have chosen and determined that the places that we would live in, the houses that we'd live in, and and you you saw fit to bring us to this city, and for that we're grateful. Lord, your word also tells us that every elected government official is appointed by you. Um and Lord, I believe that to be true, and I'm grateful for those that you've chosen to lead uh this city and to lead us um into the future while remembering the past and honoring all that you've done. Father, I pray that there'd be a spirit of peace um in the conversations tonight, Lord. And that that that peace would be accompanied by uh divine wisdom, Lord. That you would help us to to to be able to see things that we wouldn't ordinarily be able to see and to make decisions that we uh couldn't justify just by human wisdom, Lord. But that there would be an impartation of your holy grace um as we talk together and as we work through things, Lord. We we recognize that that decisions that are made that affect so many people are not easily made. Um and so we carry that burden um openly um but we carry it with a great deal of accountability and we recognize ultimately Lord that that we're your servants. Um Lord, none of this um is self-gratifying. Um Lord, but we do it because we believe you called us into it. And so Father, I thank you

for each of these council members, each of the city employees. Thank you for our mayor. Thank you for all of those who have said yes to these assignments and these roles. Um Lord, I pray that tonight would be a night that honors you. Um Lord, there would be a spirit of your grace as we discuss together in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, pastor. Pastor, good luck on your performance. I'm going to come see you. Please rise and follow me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, mayor. I would uh move that we approve this agenda for the work meeting on March 18th. Second. have a motion and a second. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Okay, we will uh start then um with the first one on tonight is is actually one of one of mine. I I got a approached a little while ago about an idea um about the idea of service in the community. There's a an organization called Just Serve um that uh allows you to be able to um have a a platform in which people that are wanting to get involved and and do service can go and see opportunities that exist and and then those that have opportunities to to have service happen can post on that. And and I thought it was a a it's a good thing. I think it's part of what our community has been founded on is this idea of volunteerism. And uh and so I am going to read tonight an uh a uh I guess a resolution um about volunteerism that I that I think is a a worthy thing for us to to have as part of of what we are as a city. So um commitment to volunteerism in Cedar City, Utah. Whereas we firmly believe that the values of compassion, empathy, and community support are the foundation of a united harmonous society and fosters connection and transcends differences. And whereas the strength and prosperity of our cities, towns, and villages are based in the selflessness of its residents to serve and uplift one another. And whereas we acknowledge the profound impact that can be achieved when we extend a helping hand to our neighbors, especially those of diverse backgrounds, and lifting them up and collectively working to improve lives. And whereas we nurture a culture of giving wherein our cities, our city emphasizes that volunteerism is not just a duty, but a source of personal fulfillment and community strength. And as we work side by side with and learn from each other, mutual understanding increases, misconceptions can be

corrected and new friendships are built. And whereas we urge all citizens to care for one another, volunteer and engage in acts of service and kindness to contribute to our city's betterment and its um inhabitants well-being regardless of background or belief. And whereas Cedar City has joined a growing list of supporters um that include the president of the National League of Cities and hundreds of leaders to date in making a commitment to volunteerism. Now therefore, be it proclaimed that I, Steve Nelson, mayor of Cedar City, Utah, hereby commit to providing volunteerism leveraging justserve.org to make it easier for residents to find and engage in volunteer opportunities. Um and will regularly acknowledge and celebrate the contributions of volunteers. So just uh

is there anyone here from Justin? We actually do. You're welcome if you want to take a minute and and talk in more depth about um about the program. Um it's a it's a good good program. And then we've actually got a one that I'm going to talk about here in a minute too that we're going to support.

My name is Steve Hotelli. My wife Lynn and I are the uh just served representatives for Iron County. And uh there are several organizations u that do what just serve does but just serve is a main one is a main one and listed there are service opportunities for our community members ranging from giving hand massages at uh some of the day or uh assisted living centers and helping out with interdenominational needs. um and even government. Uh we just I just posted a project from the Bureau of Land Management uh with the cleanup of Highway 56 on the north side that's on there. So this is an opportunity uh Cedar City is known for its uh just serve or excuse me his service hours. I have to say, not to start contention, but in a year ago in our food drive, they kept track of the population and the amount of food that was donated. And Cedar City had twice as much food donated per capita as St. George. So, we can feel good about that.

Yep. Wow. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ste. Thanks for for being here. That actually leads in. I've got uh Cleave Weaver and Brandon Spencer here. If one or both of you want to come up. U I don't know that I need to. You need to come up. I've never been here. It's like calling Well, you've been You've been to all day every day without a microphone. You've been to the principal's office before. So, it's kind of like calling you to the principal's office. There's people looking at you on the stage. There are people looking at me somewhere. I appreciate they're closing their eyes, but they're

okay. Uh, so Brandon Spence and myself have come up with this idea of things that we want to do and we'd like to organize a a service project at least yearly on kind of like a grand scale and and Steve and and Mike Blake from the county who've been gracious and helped us out and they're people that I've known for a long time and uh we are planning on we've got commitments from uh BZI. We've got uh commitments from uh at least 30 congregations in town and we're looking to right now maybe have about 400 people help us on April the 11th at 9:00 a.m. And uh the county has been more than gracious. They're going to help us with some uh with some uh trash bags if you need a link on where to buy some uh inexpensive leather gloves for your groups that are coming. I I have one of those. I'd love to say we could go and afford the gloves that are available here in town, but I don't know that we can afford 400 pair of those. But, uh, we'd like to invite everybody to come out and help us. There's going to be a flyer that's out. It's on the city website, uh, shortly. It's, uh, posted at SU. Uh, it'll be shared on Facebook and we should have a lot of people there to help us out. And we'd like to do the north side this time. And then if it works out well, maybe do the southside in the fall when it gets a little closer, as long as it doesn't interfere with my deer hunting and and we'll take care of that. But uh we appreciate the support that we've garnered so far and I know that we can look forward to support from the rest of you and this community uh in the future.

Cle, thank you, Cle. Cleave. Clever over here. You will have members of the Cedar City Youth Council there. I spoke to them. Beautiful. They're going to be up there. And then we have some members of the America 250 steering committee also. Okay, good. And and you know, I do realize cuz I teach at the high school at least for 42 more days, but who's counting? You count down. Yeah. That uh uh that is the week of spring break and the end of spring break for the school. So, it might be a little bit difficult, but we'd hope that uh we could garner enough support to make a dent in that and then there's a real good chance that uh we can get that uh mowed under Saturday.

And so there's not as much sage brush there to gather as many as much trash. And we'd like everybody to help because honestly everybody in the county's garbage is there because everybody goes down that road to go to the dump at least till there's another paved one from somewhere else. So do you have a meeting time and location? I am tropical smoothie. Tropical smoothie. And we're not going to go a minute longer than noon. If we're not done at noon, I'm sending everybody home because I know high school kids and I know people and three hours is going to be more than enough. And if I have to stay with my truck and trailer and and load them and dump them myself, I'm good with that. Okay. And you're just picking up trash. They don't need any other tools.

They might need a rake. It might be helpful to have a rake to rake some stuff out. Uh but there are plenty of tumble weeds and and goat heads and all kinds of things. Long sleeves and gloves would be almost a necessity for most people. Okay. A question. You're saying you're meeting at Tropical Smoothie. Is that the one airport road? Yes, sir. Yeah. So, by the side of You're going to have everybody You're going to have everybody parking at Well, I would hope that uh we're just I know we're just going to hope that they will park down at uh Staley West and walk up. Okay. So, Staley West is our overflow parking lot. Yep.

Let's just meet at Staley West. I I hate to see 400 cars try to park. That intersection's already Oh, I know. But we're going to have the traffic stopped anyway, so it probably won't matter. I understand your concern. Many people at that intersection. That's what I'm telling you. I I understand that. But we want to make a statement, sir. You're going to make a statement. And we want to make sure that I hope it's a good one. It's everybody gets at the end of the day when it's clean. Are they going to care about five minutes? Oh, I'm sure. Because no offense, there are stupid people that complain about everything. If you offered to paint their house, they'd be mad about it, right? Just a lot of people that spot. Yep. Brandon, do you want to add anything?

You got to go to the microphone. You have to come to the mic. State your name. And your name is

Brandon Spencer. So, first of all, um, as I looked at this, you know, I travel down that road to go down to the shooting range all the time, go to the dump all the time, and I just noticed that there's just stuff everywhere. the the wind usually comes from the south and blows it all up to on that north side. I did notice one time I was going to the dump and and then I noticed as I was going down 56 there's a huge tote right in the middle and I and I picked I pulled over and picked it up and as I got to the dump there was a guy with a pickup truck that had about seven of those same totes. And so that's one thing that we hopefully as a city we can we can look to try to fix. you know, we do have the signs up say, "Hey, you got to have everything covered up." But I do notice also somebody has talked to me on Facebook about um the actual um garbage trucks themselves. They when that wind picks up, there's stuff spewing out of those as well. And I don't know if those things close. I know that they can pack that in there, but I I don't How do those trucks work? Do we know when when those when those trucks when they dump stuff in there and they go down that Highway 56, there's stuff that's pouring out of those things and those those are the city dump trucks, too.

Yeah, there is a cover on them, but I don't know how tight that cover is. So, I wonder they have to pack that down, right? So, they're packing it in. So, they got to make sure we'll get back to you on that one. We've got somebody right here.

So, just the future of just the future of this this project, but I do have other projects as well. I I you know, I talked to Steve about this. We're kind of missing the scouts. you know, those Eagle Scout projects. And I'm actually going to have Cle, you know, work with the young men in our in our ward and see if they can, you know, get themselves at least one youth has one some sort of Eagle Scout style project so that they can just, you know, they can head it up, you know, because when you think about the Eagle Scouts, man, they would they would get funding for it and they would contact people and they get people to help them out, you know, whether it's uh fire hydrants need to be painted or, you know, picnic benches or something, you know. I think those things are something that we could, you know, bring back with this initiative here. So, uh, but as far as as far as the logistics of this, that is nine miles from that, um, that u that intersection there at that Maverick on Airport Road all the way down up Iron Springs Road to the the entrance to the landfill is 9 miles. And so, we've got um stakes involved and stuff. So, we're going to assign the stakes, you know, sections down there. Do they have it blocked off? Are they going to have it blocked off on that right lane? So

yeah, there's only it's they're going to make it one lane out there that day. So on the right side almost three hours. So let let Miss Marshall can answer your question about the garbage trucks. So okay, Ryan, Marshall, public works director. Um yeah, those garbage trucks, they have a closed loop system. Um so when they compact it, it closes. The only way it could possibly have anything out is if they get a big metal piece in there and it jams it so it doesn't shut tight. Um, but if you see any of that, let us know so we can get them in. My gut is they're referring to the ones that containers to That's what I That's what my gut is. The big ones that get pulled up. And of course, I know it's not a perfect system because how often do the does the garbage man push that button to compact it?

You know, it just doesn't do that in between every house, right? And so you do get the wind and it just starts blowing stuff out of there. Happens on my street. I've I've seen it. But but yeah, hopefully they're packing it in and closing up. But the idea of this service idea, we're grateful for um grateful for you guys being willing to step it up or step up. And I originally had my first conversation actually with Cleave. Um I either during the election or soon after the election um and uh I just loved his attitude because you you know as you go through campaigning you hear a lot of people complain about stuff but very few are willing to come with solutions and and I'm I'm uh very grateful for for you Cleave and Brandon you stepping in and helping with this because it's you saw an issue and rather than just complain about it you're stepping up to to serve and to figure out how to to make it better. So so thank you both. might after this hear me complain about some other stuff that we'd like to see done. But but we appreciate you guys' willingness to put yourselves out there. And I appreciate because you're going to be the ones that get the calls and the complaints. And I get plenty of them at school. I mean, I don't even want to go into what problems that snow day caused me and how foolish I think it was, but I don't get any saying that. And if you could please spell my name right in the minutes, it's CL Eve Ve because it always gets spelled wrong everywhere. and then stuff starts coming to me in the mail wrong and it I it's not my favorite.

All right. Thank you. So, yeah, just one last thing. So, I I put it on like nine different uh Facebook pages, community ones. I put it on Just Serve. That's the one he was talking about. Um the America 250, I think we're going to try to get them involved as well. Um but uh but yeah, so it's just basically we'll we'll come up with logistics. I've got my contact information. they can message me, but eventually we're going to have to we're going to have to park all the way up that nine mile, you know, somewhere. We're going to have to use parking lots all along that. So, okay. Cool. Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Hey, thank you for your time. Mayor, personal privilege, please. Yes, sir.

Uh, I wanted to just u offer congratulations to the Cedar City Inter Mountain Hospital and IHC. They had their ribbon cutting this afternoon. I did make it, David. I was late because I had a meeting, but I was there. I saw Jameson. Uh, it's a great new addition with their emergency room expansion. We have some great equipment in there and we are we really are blessed to have that level of a hospital in our community and their commitment to keep building onto the community. They've now in the process of raising funds because they're going to expand the cancer center very soon. So, I just want to let people know that we have a great hospital here and they're more than willing to work with us and uh it was an honor to be there and I just wanted to share that.

Perfect. Thank you. Okay, we now uh have under staff comments a couple actually going to do a couple introductions. Um I I'm granting our economic developer um Dave the ability to also introduce his new employee under this this item. So, um, first hear from Randall introducing our new city attorney and then and then Dave. Perfect. So, I'm lazy. I'm sitting here. Uh, so Christopher Goobler is our new assistant city attorney. Uh, brought him in. It's been what, a week and a half? He's learned it all already.

Um, so we brought him in. We're excited. Uh, got his bar license on February 11th, if I've got my dates correct. So, we are training him to be the next evil, I mean, good prosecutor in the city. Um, so the plan is not to meet me. Yes, exactly. So, the majority like me, the majority of people he knows around town at first will be the ones you don't want to meet. Um, but other than that, no, we're excited to have him here and he's already jumped in full speed at screening cases. So, I'm excited. He's already picking up some bad habits. I was here late one day coming out of getting my mail out of the mailbox over there and he was coming back to work when everything was locked up. So, got my eyes on you.

Why? It's why we gave him a key. Will you tell us Will you tell us a little bit about yourself, Christopher, please? Um, yeah. So, I'm married. I have two kids. I grew up in Vegas. My wife is from Salt Lake. Cedar City is a great area to be right in the middle of both families. But also

cuz I grew up in Vegas, which meant I was always up the mountain right here cuz, you know, snow's better over here. And so I I'm very excited to be in Cedar. Um I was house shopping last week with my mother and we drove past the local Applebees and my mom's like, "Yeah, that's the Applebees that you threw out your retainer at." And your uncle went dumpster diving for that retainer. And so definitely have some memories for here. And I'm just excited to be bringing my family and to be in such a great community. Fantastic. Well, welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, mayor. So, uh, our new economic development coordinator, uh, David, Who are you? I am David Johnson. Thank you. Um, I always forget who I am, Scott. Sorry about that. Thanks, Paul. Um, David Johnson, economic development. So, uh, our new economic development coordinator, Daisy Burns, just started on Monday, and she's already diving in full-fledged, drove across the country. I'll have her come up and introduce herself so I don't steal her thunder. Go for it. Hi everyone. I'm Daisy Burns. Um like Dave said, I'm the new economic development coordinator. I just started on Monday. Uh and I actually just moved here from New Hampshire for this role. Oh my goodness.

Yeah. Last week. So very new new here. Um and my background is in economics and public policy. So I'm very happy to be here. Wow. Welcome. Perfect. Welcome to the West. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Great. Getting some good new employees. Um, jump to our business agenda. Uh, the first one under the public section is public hearing to consider waving business. Um, licensed late fee for Seven Brothers Burgers.

Here to plead my case. Um, my name is Brigham Moretti. My wife and I live in Washington. We've got two little girls down there. Um, and we own a Seven Brothers in Washington. And then we just opened a Seven Brothers burgers here in Cedar just at few months ago, October, end of October. Um, anyways, I'm sure you guys have notes on context of this, but um, received the notice. So, the address was messed up a little bit. We weren't open in Cedar, so I had mail sent to our Washington address. I never saw the notice to um renew our business license. So, by the time I got it, an employee gave it to me. Um we had the $300 fee and then a late fee on top of that. And I was surprised to see it was another $300. So 100 100% of the license fee as a um late fee as well. So I am fully on me that I put the address wrong, went to the wrong place. Um but I'm asking for a little bit of grace as a firsttime offender and a small business owner. We've loved being here in Cedar City. We've loved working with the city. I worked closely with David to even come here. Um, and we've we've loved it. So, um, anyways, I'd hope that you guys would consider

just one matter of clarification. I think when when you looked in more, how much was the actual total? It was $200 or something. The total fee was 300 like 303. It was 150. 150 and then Yeah. Okay. That's what I was thinking. I So 150 150. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, see now you So you're getting a bargain. See, you're already saved. It's probably It's probably half the cost of what your St. George have to do any more arguing. There you go. With the restaurant, though, all back. So, especially coming through the slow season, right? You're not in summer yet. Yeah. So, when did the first notice go out? You know, I personally have no idea. Went out in November.

She will know. November 25th. November 25th. November 25th. Oh, thank you. I'm sorry. Delinquent was mailed January 21st and a second was mailed February 19th. November 25th. The original notice went out. So are you saying that this address you had in Washington was not a address you checked? I mean is it it went to some phantom place? Typically because we have no mailbox. So typically it's just delivered and then it's our GM or general manager that's there that receives the mail, hands it off to me. Unfortunately, the circumstance was we had opened a brand new restaurant here. I was here every single day, right? And then we lost our GM in Washington. So, Oh, mail just

it went to their restaurant in Washington. Yeah. To to the restaurant. So, by the time I got a new GM at the beginning of the year in February, that's when, hey, found this letter. I don't know if you need to look at it. And I'm like, yep, yeah, kind of do. I need to look at it. Well, and the hard part is that was the third letter. Sir, I I had a business for a very long time, and if I went from November 25th to February 15th and didn't open my mail, I'd be in real trouble. Well, I'll be honest. Nowadays, we don't really receive mail that is it's like duplicate copies of what is sent in email. Like Washington County, everything's automated.

The license fees, everything is through email. I have a portal on there. It makes it really easy. Sure. I'm only first first business I've owned. So, yeah, that's all I know. Okay. And I just it's on me. I I did I just didn't expect to get it in the mail and then obviously learning learning some kinks as a business owner and and what shouldn't shouldn't happen. But And when did you because I'm assuming your first business license with the city was a pro-rated one, right? Because you weren't open a full year. So, you had a couple of months under your first one probably. So the first one it was actually prrated to six months even though I only opened we opened the end of October but I paid for a full six months. Oh the city ordinance only prorates half year. Oh okay. So

I was also wondering maybe we could roll that into the come back another time for that one. Okay. No, we're past that.

Okay. So obviously I don't get to vote but I I'll I'll just express a thought first. We're grateful to have you in our community and the outcome of this I hope is no reflection of of that. One of the the challenges that I know that the council members will have to face in making this decision is um you're you're not the only one that uh misses it, doesn't open it, whatever, and and ends up with late fees. And I'm a little nervous about a precedent that would be set with that that um when there wasn't a fault on the city that we were sending it the address given uh to open that door honestly just makes me nervous because then it will will create a precedent. Is it something that happens often?

If you look on this thing it happens about 300 time about 300 businesses are in the same situation.

I I can make a comment on that mayor if I I I I own a small business over here. I'm not there every day. is run by my daughter and we have all kinds of employees and we're a small business and uh the people that run the front desk and are doing all the things that they're doing. When the mail comes, it goes in a drawer and they just keep going and I have given them written instructions and text me when you get important mail from the city and whatever. Guess what? I had to pay a late fee this year. um because I received the second notice and I I nobody had given me the first notice. So, uh I know it's it hurts. Um my margins are even smaller than the the food business. I'm in the I I'm embarrassed to say

you get the beauty. You know, we have a salon, so I'm embarrassed to say that sometimes. My mom was a salon owner.

There you go. So, you know, you know the deal. and I had to pay the u the very steep fine to to get that. So I I understand where you're coming from, but we do, you know, from this side of the of this desk here, we we have to look at the bigger picture and we have a lot that miss it. Now, having said that, uh I I firmly believe that if we go electronic, we may be able to to mitigate some of those issues because I look at my email constantly as opposed to,

you know, getting a notice from my employees that I that I received a letter or whatever. So, we actually had a similar occurrence that happened when we were building the restaurant. Same thing. all all the tenants in that building were um sent a physical letter and nobody knew and there was I don't know who how you guys would know if you did know about that but um anyways there's a lot of things that had to happen because nobody had received or didn't know that that was being sent. Yeah. Um being part of the building permit process or what? um following following building permit um

there was it I can't remember exactly there's one department that was sending a sending a letter and and we had kind of talked about that in our meeting as we came to a a resolution we had kind of all said like yeah you know if the communication was either electronic or had they even just told us hey we're sending a letter look out for it um we probably could have avoided mail you a letter saying they're mailing a letter exactly Wait. Well, we appreciate it. We will take this under consideration. Yeah, we don't vote tonight, so it's something that we'll vote on next week, but I think we have all the information that we need to make the decision. If I can say one more thing, please. You bet.

Um, I did reach out to I don't want to compare, but re reach out to Washington County. Um, and they said that their late fee, I think it maybe 25 bucks the first month and then it went to 50 bucks the second month. Um, so I guess my other consideration would be maybe not a full 100% of the if there is a late fee, charge it, but maybe not 100% of the actual business license fee. Fair enough. Thank you for that comment. By the way, um, thank you for coming to our city. Of course. Thanks for having I've been to your restaurant. I love it. It's great place. So, take you guys anytime. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Mayor. I would move that we put that on action for next week. Oh. Oh, yeah. We got to have open Oh, we do have a public hearing. I'm sorry. So, I'll now open the public hearing. Is there anybody that would like to to comment on this one? Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing. Wait, I think Were you coming up? Oh, okay. We got one back open.

I'm sorry. I'm Tanya Payne and regarding the city license, we've been in business for I don't know how many years and I know that I have to have a city license. I'm sorry, but I know my responsibility. I know that I have to pay it. I know when it's due and I do, you can do an auto pay, I believe. Um, and so I I don't see where the confusion is. If I got a city license, I have to renew it every year just like my license plate, just like my property taxes, just like everything else. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, DA.

Anybody else? Okay. Now, we'll close the public hearing and entertain that motion, Carter. Yeah, I just move that we put that on action for next week. Second. Motion and a second. All in favor?

Any opposed? Great. Um, next one is uh Shadow Cove Town Homes Northwest Curb Approach Maintenance. Hello, my name is Jeff Renless. Um, I am just a tenant uh at the Shadow Cove Town Home Centers. Um and uh they uh came in and adjusted the the curb approach for the the southwest entrance of the complex. Sorry, the northwest comp um entrance of the the complex. Um and when they did it, they made a quite a bit steeper incline of it. I'm in construction and I uh did go out and double check their work and it's at a 56% grade at that entrance. Um I did check with the the city guidelines and everything and it says at the max of 15% grade. Um, I went ahead and uh walked around and got a signed petition because I called in and your guys's uh or uh infrastructure company or whatever said that it was uh correct. So, I went ahead and got a signed petition to see if we can get that fixed to more of a gradual incline instead of a 56% in Do we have any pictures or anything on this, Kent, yet that we can look at?

I I took some pictures. I did take some pictures. I did haven't sent them in. I don't know where to send that in. I have them on my phone right now. I think uh he might have. Yeah, I think Kent might have something. So, go ahead. Do you want me to go ahead and talk? Yeah. Yeah.

So, this So, this is the approach in question. when this Google image was taken um this was before the recent or relatively recent changes that uh Mr. Renlespocker mentioned um so this was originally built with a uh more of a cross drain across your valley gutter. Um that was in very poor repair within the warranty period. It had some problems with it. It needed to be replaced. Our field personnel talked to the contractor out in the field about their options. um they elected to go with what they thought would be the cheapest option and that's what ended up being built. Um I do have some photos I could throw on the screen right now if you want me to.

Yes, please. Um so this is a photo taken from across the street. You can see that drive approach. This is similar to our our standard lowprofile curb except that it's not low profile. It's the same same type of deal, but it's it's a higher rise to a full height curb height. Um when you when you come off of that flow line, um needs to be

here's another another view of that. You can kind of see what's excuse me what's going on with that. and uh kind of a closeup looking up the hill um north to south um along that approach. Hey Kent, sorry. So Jeffrey, so this is what's the 57 degrees. That little Okay, that's the part that you were referring to. That's 57 degrees. Okay, sorry. Continue, Kent.

Yeah, so that that's what we what we have right there. Just so you can kind of see what the what the issue is. I drove through it. um took one of our city vehicles out, drove through it. I Yes, you have to slow down and uh and you kind of have to get it on an angle so that your both of your front tires aren't hitting it at the same time or it's a real jolt. So, yeah, I understand why there's a concern. There were a lot of cars that came through in the time I was out there. No one scraped or anything like that. It's just you have to slow down to to uh go over that bump to make it through that drive approach. Is is this going from a city street into a private road? Yes.

Okay. Yeah, this is the city street out here on the right going into their private their private road. Does it turn private right there? Can you pull up a map to show where this is located? Maybe that would help. Is it beyond the sidewalk where it goes private or is it at the curb? Um I I believe technically the the road ride ofway is the the uniform width down through there goes behind the sidewalk. Yeah, probably.

So this is out uh you know Fiddler's Canyon Road uh the uh the Canyon View High School just down the hill here. So this is as you come up past Wedgewood come where you start to come up the steeper hill you pull in. It's It's that location right there. Thanks. So, Jeffrey, what is I mean, what's the request here? What What are you So, I uh on the um other end, the north east side entrance, they have the same type of where they have the sidewalk going through to Can you go over there?

Where we see that entrance on the northeast? Um, and they do have the uh where it's a lower profile for that uh um curb approach and it does allow the a lot smoother. I was proposing that we would be able to redo that into a form of that would make it meet the ADA requirements as well as allowing of a less of a

jump up. Yeah, exactly. There's been several people um even just when I go out to get my mailbox because it's right next to the mailbox. I go get the my mail. I've heard people scrape with the little sedans and stuff scrape their their cars going over that coming in or coming or leaving. Probably coming in. Coming in. Yeah. Yeah. So, what about I mean as far as the ADA, Kent, is it out of is it compliant with ADA? what what exists currently at the location that is the subject. Um, it does meet ADA. This one other one that he referenced does not not even close to meeting ADA. The one on the northeast. Yes.

How does the one that's better not? But the one that because the sidewalk is uh is flat with a a slope that falls within ADA parameters. the the one here, if you kind of look closely, you can see a little bit of a seam crosses the street. Oh, is it one of those where the sidewalk actually it's steep down to the street and it's steep coming back down to the pavement. It's kind of a a peak there that comes steep both ways. Um, yeah, there is no place you can walk across there that that is even close to meeting 88. So, you're saying on this one, on the north one, it's the actual sidewalk is slanted where the other one the sidewalk is flat. Correct. Yeah.

So, is there a reason, Kent, that in our standards we would even have required sidewalk there coming into a private road? Like, we have sidewalk along the public street that's required. So, this is the connectivity of the sidewalk along the public street. In their initial construction, the way they chose to do it was to put in a couple of ped ramps and put the cross gutter across the roadway,

which was okay. that met our standards except it was not done very well and it fell apart and so it had to be redone. when they were redoing it, our our folks uh um you know, the inspector from my department as as well as street superintendent met with the contractor out there, went over their options of what they could do that would be acceptable to the city and they went with the one they did and I don't think they did a great job of the way they did it, but it was it it it's it's not terrible. I don't believe when I go out there and drive through it, it's it's not it doesn't feel a lot different than when you drive through our low profile curb. Um it's not as nice, but it Anyway, so that's that's where we sit right now. It was it was uh the uh the infrastructure that was falling apart was replaced with something that that at least is solid. It handles the We do have a lot of water that comes down this street because it's we get overflow from this uh big storm pond. There's the the outfall right here

and it makes its way and comes down this street. the the old uh infrastructure that was there was not able to contain that water and it would come back and wash out uh the landscaping out onto the street when we'd get So if you did the other kind and there were issues with the water couldn't carry the water either. Yeah. So, the idea was that the solution that was put in was one that, you know, would do better at holding the water that's already in the curb, keeping it in the curb as it went past this private uh uh roadway. So, mayor, just uh comment on this and it's very important that this is the overflow road for the detention pond.

Mhm. And so, the water is go the water's going to go down this road.

Yeah. and the the cross gutter that was there was letting the water go right up towards the building, wash out that landscape areas and all those things. So when it went bad, it was decided and this the what it's built now is the drawing is actually on the plan. What they did though, it can't if you could show the current picture, they they put a five- foot sidewalk right there. That's a 5-ft sidewalk. We have we need that height, but if they'd have done a 4ft sidewalk, they would have sloped that back quite a bit more and that you probably wouldn't had near the problem. And so by doing the five foot forcing it out so steep, that's what's making your angle so steep. But to hold the water, this is really what's needed to prevent from flooding out that house on the corner. The problem is when they built it, they they should have made this angle back to four and then just made a 4ft sidewalk. They could have laid that back one more foot and you wouldn't have had this wouldn't have had this problem.

So, it's really the construction of this really wasn't done like it probably should have been. So, I have a question because I'm not a builder. Pardon me. If if you go four feet and you reduce the angle, will it still retain u move the water away? Keep the same height. You keep the same height. Keep changing the angle because you're laying it back. So instead of this, now you're like that. Okay. And sorry, I was going to say I've got a hand sketch here. The um please forgive the fact that I did this myself with a pencil on a piece of paper

as opposed to uh This used to count for being able to be turned in. Yeah. So, so this is our our our standard curb and gutter section. And you know where I showed the dash line coming up here. What is out there today? They they put a small lip down at the bottom and then uh angled that to where the top of curb would be at the back of curb and you get that steep slope that you see on you saw on the on the photos and and that Mr. Renithbacher is talking about. Um, so we were looking at, well, what could you do

if if you came back even another 6 in and you'd have a line about like that right there? If you can see my mouse pointer, um, that would flatten that substantially. It would help. It would still be a pretty good bump to go through there. You'd still want to slow down to go through it, but it would certainly make it easier to drive through than what it is today. We looked at, well, what if we went a full foot? As uh council, excuse me, council member Schmidt just mentioned, the uh only concern I have with that is I'm not sure how much clearance that would leave us on the rebar. There is rebar in that slab. In talking to um our street superintendent, he saw this before the concrete went in, he said that bar is actually down a little lower, and in fact, the bottom of the slab is a little bit lower. Um, so we we may not be able to get a come back a full foot, but it could be cut or ground back to somewhere between, you know, about six and 8 in probably and still preserve cover over the rebar so that it would function. That would make it easier to drive through. That's probably not the best solution, but the best solution would be many times the cost of this solution.

So, I have a question. Um, did does the current design meet the city standards? Is it built to standard even though it's a little steep? It's it's uh yeah, it's essentially the same design as our lowprofile curb. Just like I say, the the curb is a little higher than it is on our low profile, hence the name. Um, but it's but it's the same kind of shape that we have on that. It is something that's drivable. You can you can drive through it. Cars were doing it the whole time I was out there. a lot of vehicles went through. Um, you know, it's not as if it's a barrier that they can't get through. Um, and we're in full ADA compliance, which is good because we have a struggle with that.

And then I have one more question. And then, so if you take that 6 in, how much cement does that leave? And then is it going to get beat out quick? Because you're going to shave several inches off and that leaves you, you know, 4 inches or so or three inches. Yeah. right at the front of the sidewalk, we'd be shaving about 2 in off of the thickness. Um, but we, you know, within six inches, we're back to the full thickness. So, I don't I don't think with the rebar that's in there, I think it would probably still hold together just fine. So, sorry, mayor. I have a question. Um, on the northeast side, where you indicated that that sidewalk in no way could handle our uh ADA compliance?

That That's right. And that's one of the items we're working on to run through the process with sketch and planning commission and make how did they get is to change our standard drawing. Right now our standard drawing for drive approaches does not meet ADA and that's something we're working on getting changed. So Scott, thank you. Thank you. You know how like when you come up your driveway, your approach does this and then your driveway is flat when a person's walking down that sidewalk. So what they're looking at is you have to bring the driveway all the way down. The sidewalk is then flat. Understand?

So, Kent, my question is um it we we had them tear it out and do it under warranty. I know we only have warranty for so long. So, at this point, and this was inspected before I mean, we signed off on Yeah, that was going to be my fault. We signed off on this at some point. And so, that's just fundamentally I struggle when we sign off on things. Well, let let's clear up one thing right now. This is not out of spec. This is in city spec. It's just a steep angle. So, it's not our guys did not inspect this wrong. Yeah. And that's what we clarified.

So, I mean, that's kind of my thought is it's just, you know, we I I hate to go back on any developer or any contractor and say, "Well, we passed it off and now here we are. Who knows how long later it's like, oh, we need to fix it again." Well, we missed our chance to Well, if if it's inspect, then they did it right. And if it's inspect Yeah. Well, and another part of it, I think not going to be necessarily the answer. you want it here. But the good part is is if you have one of those cars you're worried about, you can go out the other exit too, right? You do have a choice. We also have the other southern exit, which is the southern east exit, which is a little bit a lot nicer. Yeah, the other one as well. Yeah, that's good. At least you're in a place there's choice if we don't do anything about it, right?

Yeah, the one further up the hill was definitely the uh smoothest to drive through of the three. So sir, do you have how many how many names do you have on your petition there? I have uh 25 but then including myself it would be 26 names. And do they all live in Chatt Cove? Yes, they do. Renon, I'm assuming you want that for the record. Do we need it? So one more question. So we could simply grind that off. What would the that look like expense-wise and timewise if we're just to cut that? Uh yeah, I don't have a good feel for that. I don't know if you do, Ryan.

We can maybe look into that this week and we can add that to the discussion next week. Just we have an idea of what that because if it's that I mean that's a more simple fix than tearing it out and repouring and everything else. So I just want to know what the options are down that road. Yeah. And it would be certainly over what's there today. It would be what I'm I didn't hear you can't I say and it would be an improvement over what's there today. I mean it it wouldn't be smooth to drive through but it would be definitely an improvement. Okay, great. Any other questions for Mr. R? Is there a chance you could use and who are you again?

Cleave Weaver still uh the gutter saw or you know that they used to cut out the gutter. Is that an option? Because I've never had to do this but I've had to cut out lots of gutters before. Lots of that. Is that does that what you're talking is cutting it out rather than grinding it out? I I think that both of those are options. That would be something we would work with the contractor on if in fact we're instructed to do that. We would work with the contractor on what would be the more constructible option for them. Phil, which you think would be better, cutting or grinding? I think uh quick cut could probably cut that fine. The real question here is who pays for it. Yeah, that's that's the real question. It's past the warranty period. We accepted it. It's ours.

It'll be us. Well, the thing is though, it's not out of spec. Yeah. So, you have a choice. That's why it's a choice of council. If we do it or don't do it, we're paying for it. If we don't like it, we want to pay for it to fix it, then we fix it. So, yep. But we don't have to. Okay. Mayor, with that, I would move that we put this on action as well. Is there I just want to give uh you any other chance if you had anything else you wanted to add or you good? I would say it if it was. Okay. Thank you very much. And and I have also given the opportunity if there's anybody else that wants to speak on it. I'll let anybody um if not then I'll entertain your motor motion Carter to put it on action. Yep. Second. I second it. And a second by Robert Beach on that one. Waldo. Oh, did he? I'm sorry I didn't.

Do you have a motion? I have a motion in a second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Thank you. We'll add that one next week. Okay. Item number three. Consider the appointment of Amber Ray as Cedar Recorder of the city recorder. Amber, come on. Not actually leaving. I thought this was all just No, she really did give a letter. Oh,

she officially did resign and I I'm excited to introduce Amber. Um uh we're I've known Amber um for quite a few years. She actually worked for me at at my real estate office for a while and I have a high degree of confidence in her um competency, her ability, her drive, uh critical thinking, like just you're a fantastic employee overall, Amber. So, we're we're grateful that you've accepted this position and um tell the council I probably already know you a little bit, but share a little bit about yourself. All right. Um

she doesn't like to present in meetings. So, I did bring a piece of paper so I didn't get sidetracked. But last time I presented, I couldn't even read the words on it because I was like, "Well, I don't I don't can't read English anymore." So, um, if you'll let me indulge on reading this because Lisa did bet that I would not read this. So, I had to win the bet. So, so thank you, Mayor Nelson, and, um, the city council and also the community. Um, I'm honored to be appointed to Sorry, not emotional. Just nervous. It's okay.

So, sorry, but I am honored to be in this um position and thank you. I want to express my gratitude for your confidence in my ability to serve in this capacity and especially for giving me the opportunity to escape the engineers and the pencil and the graph paper. So, um I think Shane and Don are also here as backup to express that gratitude also. Um, Renon has served in this position so well, and she'll be greatly missed. And I'd say I have big shoes to fill, but I think they're only like a size six, so so they're good. Um, I will strive to uphold the duties of um hopefully this will be the last time you ever see me emotional. Um, I will strive to uphold the the duties of this office with integrity, dedication, and and a dose of humor. Um, I look forward to continuing to work with staff and the council to serve the people of the city to the best of my ability. So, thank you. I don't know why I'm so emotional, but it is important to me that I do a really good job.

How much was on the line of that bed? Well, it's one penny. THAT'S ALL WE SHOULD AT least double it. Well, exactly. I I say I I appreciate that because the recorder position is a very important position in the city and as you say, Renan's done a remarkable job and and uh I'm confident you'll fill in there and in no time it'll be a very smooth transition for us. So, thank you.

I got to say one thing that I learned through the process with with uh Amber doing this. Um, I always love to see employees who are driven by themselves to improve themselves and their skills. Um, so Amber went through and got started the schooling and the credentiing process um to have the the paper, you know, to to learn and and then have that that uh that paper even before the job was open. Like she did it how long? a year ago or something like

and and that's the kind of of person that I know Amber is. She wants to be good and without being asked to get better, she will just improve herself and get better and um we're really grateful to have you in the city, Amber, and and thank you for for being who you are. Thank you. Yeah, Amber, you can go through. Well, I'll shake your hand. Okay. Well, not yet. Not this year. Before they vote before they vote next week, this is your last chance. But you need to know you're still going to be required to work with engineering. If you want to change your mind, this is the time. I do love my engineering department. Everyone should know that. So they tolerate me and I tease them enough to get crack little tiny smiles. So

Oh, and they're they're grumpy with us for stealing you. So, amen. So, you want me to shake hands or wait? No, that will be next week after we actually approve this. Mayor, I would uh move that we put this on consent. I have a motion. Second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Beautiful. Okay. Um, number four, consider bids for the 1700 West pipeline project. Shane,

Shane Johnson with the engineering department. So, this is a waterline project on 1700 West. It's from like 250 north. It makes the loop. Um, it's been on the books to do this project for a long time. We got nine bids on the project. Um, one thing that's come up is the the second lowest bidder, Viking Excavation, is located in the city and they're within 5%. So they'll have the opportunity to uh for our local bidder preference pre preference policy they've resubmitted to match the low bid of Intel X. So they did re you guys already went through that process.

Yes. Where is Intel X located in in the county? In the county. Oh X I let me know. Sorry. Yeah. I think by BZI, aren't they? Okay. Yeah. Can I can I ask a question that is related but not as specific to this, but I went up there and I looked at the project as I do and are we is 1800 West a dedicated street for the city? Uh what? Yeah. No, but yeah. Well, that's kind of what it looks like. Yes and no. That's what took so long was getting easements and things through there. I mean, is that one of our dedicated streets? because there's no improvements on that street whatsoever.

No, I don't think so. It's just a they were private drive and part of this is the north and south road. Those are just private private drives. Well, I know 1725 looks like it goes to somebody's private driveway, but 1800 West does circle around and come in there by that Red Peaks gym. Yeah. Yeah, you can. So I just wondered because I was going along. I was on a lovely paved road and all of a sudden it was on a dirt road and ruts in it and oh and then there's a big street sign says 1800 west. Yeah it's so yeah where it's it's the project is basically where the pavement ends on.

I think we've been working on rightway for this for five six seven years before I started. Yeah. So show us on this map where this water line actually goes. That's the Yeah. If you zoom back in and come south, you can see where it ends right there where that valve is right here. Yeah. And then it so it goes down and then it makes the curve and then it connects up. There is an 2-in line that does exist to Maverick. Is that properties? That's why I drove up. And we're connecting where the asphalt ends. Yeah. About right there. Maverick's down here a little further. Are we replacing a 2 inch line? Yes.

That's a good And then you have be adding hydrants and then finishing the looping of that. You come up here this all the way down there. Any other questions for Shane? That's a two. Oh, so that that'll be taken up. No. So I guess yeah the question is if they've resubmitted is I mean is that the deter who decides that that's what we're going to do when they're both is your recommendation to go with with uh a certain one or or are you asking us to just decide that? Well I think the local bidder policy follow that if they match it.

The local bidder policy would tell us if the local bidder matches the low bid we give it to the local guy. Okay. That is that a city ordinance? Yes, it is. It's in your purchasing policy. And we do differentiate between city and county like they're in Cedar City versus It's tiered. We start in the city and if there's nobody in the city, then we go to Okay. So, has the bidder been uh told that they need to match the lower bid? Yeah. Oh, that's you. No, right there. Where is he? Oh, there he is. So, he's already resubmitted to match. Is that a a real smile or Okay, I would uh with that information, I would move that we put this on consent for next week. Talk about it further.

I think I'm second. And a second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you.

Um Oh, you're standing because you get to do the next one, too. Consider design proposals for the Fort Cedar Railroad Trail, pump track, and bike park. Um, so we've have this project on Industrial Road. This is between 400 South and 600 South. It's in the It's part of the build rail track um area. So, I guess the plan has been for quite a while to put a a bike park or track there. So, we went out and got some proposals and design ideas from three different companies. That's right. And

I I have a question on this. Can you go to the quote or I just want to make sure I clarify. So, we're talking between 400 West 600 West. This area back behind the behind the It's about an Oh, next one. Keep going. Okay, back down just a little bit. Or do you probably want to see this? What? I'm sorry. What are you wanting to see? Well, I was I was reading one spot there was a $7,000 bid for doing the topo.

I was just looking for that. Oh, that that was within the I think the alliance sports their proposal. So whe which is really a high number. Yeah. I wouldn't suggest we go with that. I No. No. Yeah. The all the all the committees are have basically decided to proposal with better bike parks. They like their design and the So what's this? Okay. The American what what what's the what number are we using then? Uh we use the 245,000 from the better from the proposal that

so the $7,000 stuff and that's all gone. Yeah. It's in the American pump American ramp company when we got looking closely at the designs it really wasn't the full scope of the project was it? Right. I mean, it was a pump track, but they used half the space. They didn't use the rest of the Yeah. So, will you scroll down, Kent? Let's look at the total cost of all the different because that's just one part of the So, but right now, are we only talking about that part? We're not talking about like because we're not bidding out. We haven't put out to bid who's doing the bathroom, who's doing already. The bathroom's done. Carter's done.

Most of this is done. The benches, I think, have been ordered. The signage is either ordered or on order. The trash cans, the dog, the pump track is now what we're talking about. The Fort Cedar and the Cannonball monuments are underway. I think the pollinator gu garden is is not yet started. And uh the train play structure is not yet started. Yeah, the bathroom's under construction now and then increase in the road right now. That's already going and this is all money that was already earmarked for this project. You can see the funding is already there. So, are we under or over or equal? Uh, well, we're at the bottom line is 34,000 is contingency. So, we're So far, so good. Y pretty tight. Okay.

Can somebody just really quick explain to me what the Staley West bond reimbursement? What's that? $66,000 that was part of this funding. Stately West when they expanded their facility out there, they uh they front Industrial Road and they came to the city and said, "Hey, uh Industrial Roads kind of uh set to be developed in the future. Can we just bond and put in our improvements later?" Oh, okay. So, this is part of that. So, we went ahead and did the improvements and just took the money that they had put up and we're just paying them back. They're paying us. No, they're paying us. This is us pulling the money that they had given us. They're they're paying us the portion that the portion of the bond that it took to actually do the work and and then

so they're so we we have this now all the new sidewalks for them and everything on that north side. Yeah. Good. Okay. Okay. So, this is just that pump track bid. You're recommending that we go with the one for 245. Yeah. Better bike recommendation and that came from the committee too, right, Scott? Was that when you were on the committee? Yes. The the leisure service advisory board approved it and Oh, active transportation also approved it, I think. Didn't they councilman? Okay. So, both of our committees supported that one as the one. That's that's the one they wanted. Okay. Then I make a motion. Motion. Motion that we move this to consent next week. I second that. A motion and a second. All in favor? I. Any opposed?

Okay. Great. Um, next one. We have a public hearing to consider modifications to Cedar City Ordinance 26321 pertaining to permitted uses in the downtown commercial zone. You're going to take this for me, Don? He is. His name's on it. I got about Don, we're glad to see you the last three times here. Before I get started, I we are super happy for Amber, but I am very bitter.

Um, so thank you, mayor, members of the city council. Uh, so before you just a handful of use changes. uh they are pertaining to the downtown commercial zone and they were recommended by the historic downtown economic committee. Uh so in short uh it would change uh those use tables to allow for alcohol drinking establishments which are currently uh prohibited. Uh it would also allow for breweries and wineries with less than 3k of production area. Uh, it would prohibit convenience stores with few islands and also allow for electronic equipment and sales at less than 24 or I'm sorry, 2400 square ft. I think the ordinance is uh about as simple as we get. I'd be happy to answer any questions and and Dave from uh he chair well he's not the chair of that committee but he's a staff rep. He knows a lot of the history.

Well, I think some some of this at least in my viewpoint we're trying just trying to clean up. I mean, we already have all the drinking establishments in the downtown area with the winery and several places that serve alcohol. We're just trying to say we're already doing it, so let's change it so it's permitted. And then uh for the um the other thing with the wineries and the breweries and then the Fuel Islands convenience store, I think is uh a reaction to something that the historic downtown was looking at. So, we don't necessarily have to have another uh Maverick store. I'm not picking on Maverick. I It's a product that I use, but uh we don't want that in our historic downtown. That's all. I don't think anything

So, one of the questions I had and Don or Carter that were involved in the discussions, why did we pick 3,000 square feet for the breweries and wineries? Why did we have a number limiting that? I think that the reason that's there because we have two categories, less than 3K and greater than 3K. At some point if if we go more than 2,000 the the thought is we're getting more into a manufacturing facility as opposed to, you know, a winery tasting room that's making their own wine because that's just the production side of the building, right? So it's not the whole building. It's just their Okay. Cuz I was going to say if the winery expanded like they want to if the tenant next door goes away, they would be over 3,000 ft. Yeah. So it's just the production.

It's the production portion of the production side. They actually have the barrels where they actually do the mixing. The existing winery is actually kind of spot- zoned into a mixed use zone right there. And that's the reason it was done, I think. Yeah. Get that. Their production area is about 1,800 square feet. Yeah. Because again, I think the idea is if you go much bigger than 3,000, you're a you're just a commercial. You're not a you know, you're not a brewery. you're a you're probably not a perfect magic number, but yeah, there is a line somewhere between, you know, Gallow and our local winery, right? So, that's that's why that's there.

So, Don, um you know, and I really appreciate you bringing this up and um I mean, as for those of you that don't know, I was the one that kind of I called Don and I called the city and I says, "Okay, we need to get going on this downtown thing and especially on the the convenience store side of it." So just you know in full transparency let's make sure you know we talk about the unforeseen consequences when we do things and that's one thing I want to bring up. So we do have two convenience stores currently that well three that fall within this district. Correct. We have the Maverick and the Shell and the Shell. And then we also have the old KB that does still have Fuel Islands that's now the ramen restaurant.

Oh the I don't know. No, it's owned by it was KB. Yeah. TT Talk. Thank you. Yeah. Owned by Mr. Obun by the park part of it, too. Yes. So, that's the one that uh No, that one's not just outside. That one's just outside of it. So, so just so we're all on the same page again for those places for future expansion and that that's is what I want to talk about. So if they were to try to expand, pull a permit to expand their footprint, then that's where they would be stopped at that point. Correct.

Yeah. So your consequences for those existing uses is that they would become non-conforming uses uh kind of bureaucratic speak for the grandfathered in. Correct. But if they came to staff and wanted to, let's say, add service bays, expand the footprint of that building, the amount of services, the answer would be no. Gotcha. Now, they have every right to continue operating in the capacity that they're at. We certainly wouldn't prevent them from remodeling, you know, or dressing up the building, but the expansion would be prohibited. Okay. And they could sell and somebody could continue to do the same use. Correct. That is correct. Is it a year, Randall? If they go out of business,

as long as Yeah. As long as they don't stop the non-conforming use for a year, then they can continue until the end of time. Correct. Or they could be right back in front of you asking you to change your ordinance. Or another development agreement, which is what we did with Maverick anyway. Right. Um, but

but I I don't understand why we're making it more restrictive when I I read a whole bunch of articles about downtowns and actually more restriction is is killing the downtowns and most cities are going to less restriction because when you say we want retail, they're competing with box stores, they're competing with Amazon, they're competing with uh, you know, a lot of other things. And so they're bringing development into downtowns by allowing housing on second stories. I mean, I I read a handful of articles about about this and and why we've got to be flexible and adapt with what the future might bring. I had a constituent that was adamantly opposed to the to the Maverick and let me know that. Um, and then she said, "I hate to admit this to you, but that actually looks better than most of the rest of the downtown." And you guys did a good job. So we already have the mechanism to have the development agreement to get that kind of facade and that was what facilitated that and so I don't know and then the other concern I have is it goes from 200 to 200 well beyond center street there's nothing historic about any of that and and we're going to restrict all the way down that and to me there's some property right issues that we're restricting more and it's we're going to drive I I we need to allow businesses to come into our downtown to give foot traffic. Um and so I don't know why we're restricting um convenience stores or or we have a pharmacy. Are we going to restrict another pharmacy? We have two barber shops. Are we going to restrict another barber shop? Um we're picking and choosing uh what's there? And I the one I don't like is is the convenience store because you know we already have restrictions and have ways to to make that dress up and look nice. Well, I think part of what we're what we're doing is mostly opening it up. Um, and to your point, I mean, if you look at the general plan, that downtown

commercial zone goes I mean, at least that land use designation in the general plan goes much further north and south than just 200 north and 200 south. So if if somebody were to come in and wanted to change their zone to let's say the downtown commercial zone, then that restriction would apply and it may make less sense, you know, further north or south. Um, so we and I and I agree, you got to be very careful when we start restricting uses. And I I think maybe further on down the line, and I'll let Dave speak to more of this because he's on the downtown committee, it may be more of a focus just in the historical core than up and down Main Street.

Well, and the other thing is what are the odds that a Maverick would actually even build there? They're pretty slim in my mind. I mean, why they wouldn't, you know, and so we just don't know what the future's going to bring. And so we freeze in time what we think we want and it really restricts what people down the road may want and bring vibrance to our downtown.

I actually don't entirely disagree with what you're saying. So let me just speak in context of our recommending bodies which are the historic downtown committee um and our planning commission. That's kind of their response. That's kind of what they're tasked with is how do we especially our historic downtown committee. So really with the Maverick situation, the only reason why it looks the way it looks is because they wanted 700 more square feet. Had it not been for that, it would have no cohesiveness with the downtown. Um, and so what the historic downtown committee is trying to do is is you can go on and on about the semantics of what's historic and what's not historic. That's not the point. The point is trying to preserve what we have because what we don't want is um I mean there's a reason why the reason why like electronic stores were once restricted and and the majority of this is actually loosening um but the reason why we don't want something like that is we don't want say back in the day with circuit city we don't want circuit city coming and buying two historic buildings and putting a big thing the likelihood not there. So the idea is really, and that's an extreme example, the idea is really is how do we preserve what we want and the premise of zoning really is to say what we do want in an area and what we don't want in an area. And so the historic downtown committee is tasked with making those recommendations. And so that's where this is coming from. Like like I said, the majority of it is actually loosening, trying to be more flexible. that the gas station situation is simply because hadn't um Maverick not wanted an extra 700 square f feet, it would not be cohesive with our historic downtown at all. And so that was kind of a saving grace. And so this had unanimous recommendation from the historic downtown committee and I think all but one from the planning commission also recommended or was it

correct? Correct. Yeah, all but one. So just want to keep that in mind like we could spend all day in the semantics. I agree that we're loosening up um three, you know, all of them but that one. Why don't we just simply say if you build something down there that you may that that we do like we did with that development green on Maverick and make it look like because if it's within the zoning provides opportunity for people that want to be there and provide economic, you know, vitality.

Can I maybe add a perspective to that? Um, from my opinion, part of when we talk about the historic downtown, we we get caught up on the idea, like they mentioned, of it being historic, and it's not the case, but there's something about it being walkable that that creates a a quality of life in the downtown that that tourists always talk about whenever I would bring somebody that was uh given them a tour that was being recruited by the university or the hospital. They love that feel of having it walkable and there a gas station doesn't add to the feel of walkability. Um and so but the Maverick adds more walk foot traffic on that street by being

I I would people drive to get gas. They have cars. That's why they're going there. They're not,

you know. So So there may be somebody staying at the hotel that wants to walk down and get a candy bar, I guess, right? but the hotel brought them downtown and they uh that's what make it makes it walkable. Um so so that's one to me that I why I'm personally okay is that I do believe in the concept of preserving that walkable feel of downtown. Um I I I would like to see us require zero setbacks. Um so that buildings have to get built on the street because that adds to the the enclosure feel that makes it comfortable to walk in a in a downtown area. So, so that's why I personally don't while I agree in principle with with what you're saying. Um, and I still do believe in this very small geographical area, we're trying to create a heart of our community that the people value and love and we're trying to preserve that walkability.

Qu I got a question for you. The other go the other concept I want to bring up is the more you restrict it, the less marketable it is for businesses to come in and have a vi a vital business. And so I I'm just opposed to restricting people's rights when we've already restricted them down. We need to be loosening them up.

Well, a flip side of that, as a person that owns buildings down there, it actually increases the the likelihood of of businesses coming in for the reason that we're preserving something that those types of businesses want to be in. So you lose the feel, then you actually harm the other business's ability to to bring businesses into their buildings or to to function there. So there is a flip side of that I think from a practical um the types of businesses that want to be there want the fill

and that was the intent of my more extreme example of like circuit city wanting to come down and and that's where I that's where I'm my point of it's not necessarily the semantics of historic. It's really just what do we want our historic downtown to be and and I would um I I don't disagree with what you're saying either but there are certain businesses that want to be in historic downtown kind of settings and certain that don't. And so the more you lose that historic downtown kind of feel. I have businesses tell me if there's openings in historic downtown, I want to know about it. Um it's a totally different uh business that wants to be in historic downtown versus maybe wants to be in our we didn't have some non quote unquote downtown businesses like office space and stuff down there, the realtor's office,

they would be empty and people I mean it's and I don't disagree. That's why that's why we still have those in the table of uses, right? and and they're good because there's somebody working. We need we need to make it a available for people that want to be there. I think it adds vitality to everything. Yeah. Can I just make a couple of comments? Um, mayor, you and I know that I'm delinquent in giving you my thoughts on all those five points. So, and this is and this is one of the reasons. All right. The school children you cult yourselves out on. kids have to Did you guys bring in this?

I I've been thinking a lot about this and and Robert, I'm I'm inclined to agree with you quite a bit because most downtowns, not just here, but around the country has suffered from the from the electronic purchasing phenomenon. Right? So all the typical businesses other than food and drink uh that would set themselves downtowns have a competition that it's

that it's unfair to be quite frank. So, um, when we talk about revitalizing the downtown and making it a walkable space for for our citizens and our tourists, which come in droves in the summer, in the spring and the fall, um, it it becomes uh, you know, kind of a of a difficult proposition. I I think that we need to be very very very creative in recruiting the businesses that are going to be downtown so that they can have longevity. Uh you you see we have a little restaurant there that I don't know why it's still there uh because they struggle. We we have some other uh shops that are there because I think they're they're just sub being subsidized by the owners so that they can maintain the flavor because you can get all of that stuff cheaper online. Right. So, this is one of the reasons why I haven't replied to you, uh, mayor, because I I'm I I'm just thinking that, um, we're married to a concept that it's obsolete and we need to decide what really we need to do to preserve this this little corridor that it's what, four blocks long. Is that what it is? Maybe maybe five blocks. And um you know there there are some drastic creative things that maybe we need to do like a boulevard and we're of course we're going to have people lined up. I need to go down the street with my car for heaven's sakes. You know those are the kinds of things that we need to boldly go where no one has gone before in order to say we do have a downtown. We do have a viable walking space. we do

have the opportunity for these types of businesses to come in. And while I appreciate the the principle behind uh the request in this in these ordinances, um it's I think it's a little bit more complex than that. I think we're going to have to get a a blank sheet of paper and say, let's look at it from a different perspective while maintaining the historical feel of Cedar City downtown, those four blocks. When you go outside, I don't know that that I disagree with Robert. I mean it's let's bring the businesses that will stimulate our economy. Right.

Right. Carter was actually first then we'll go to you Phil. So Carter then Phil.

So I mean my couple of thoughts on this um one we we have a very limited opportunity I think here. I mean so a couple of points. One talking about how far it goes. I I think if we I almost look at it like as a little bit of a buffer really. We do know the historic the part that we're most concerned about is from that light to this light, right? But if we don't have a little bit of a buffer in my opinion, it's going to everything's going to be right up to it and you're literally only going to have that part to that part. And so the other thing too about this that we haven't talked about tonight is these are convenience stores with fuel islands. These take up a lot of real estate. They take up a lot of space. And if there's one thing in my opinion that the Maverick proved is that that is a big money-making business. And there's no it there's no expense that they'll spare to if they think they need a gas station in that location, they'll tear down any one of these buildings. And it's going to take more than one building. That's my other concern is everything else we have left in this historic downtown. You couldn't tear down only one building and build a gas station with fuel islands. It's impossible. None of them have a big enough footprint. So you're talking you'd have to lose multiple buildings at least to be able to do that. And so that's why I'm in so so favor of this is because they take up a lot of real estate. And and I mean I don't know all the numbers, you know, I hear all the you hear the rumors and stuff, but I mean think about what Maverick had to pay to tear down everything they did. The lease that they pay every month on that land. There's no they'll spend the money. They'll if they felt they needed one, they'd tear down half the downtown in my opinion. And again, that's not a dig on Maverick. I shop at Maverick almost every day, but it's it's such a big money maker that I think if we don't protect it, nothing we'll have more. I know people are like, there's no way we'll get another gas station. Well, we probably never thought we'd get one where we have one. And so that's why I

think we need to do this. And so, and again, to this point of if if we do have somebody that comes with some grandiose idea and they're willing to play ball and they're willing to do all the things that we ask, we can do an exception. We can do something down the line. But this is us initially saying for now we like our downtown not having any more gas stations and if you can somehow come to us with something that's so great that you want to change our mind then change our mind. But instead Yeah. So that's where I'm at.

I just have a qu question with with these businesses. Some of these uh buildings down through here have apartments and uh walk-in businesses upstairs. Is is the living arrangement still going to be allowed? Yes, they are permitted. They are permitted. We're in fact encouraged. That's encouraged. We want business because we want vitality downtown. I just want that creates walkability. This is all this is all that's being proposed right here. These four things.

Okay. You know, uh just on the comments of the gas stations, um you know, most corporation uh corporations define their market representation uh footprint based on a on a set of factors, right? uh for a gas station, I would imagine. I've never did market representation for a gas station, but you have to look at traffic patterns. You have to look at convenience in and out. You have to look at uh average income per capita on the people that are transiting through there and so on and so forth. And I, you know, if you look at what happened immediately after they put this gas station here is they shut down the little one down the road because it doesn't make sense. It'll steal the revenue that can be generated here. So, um, if somebody comes into Cedar City and says, "I want to put a gas station just in front of city hall," I'm happy to sit down with him and talk him out of it on the merits of that idea alone or the lack of merit because it doesn't make sense. It would be a foolish investment with a gas station right there. Um, and this is, I guess, where my brain is going in the direction of what Robert was saying is we, and to be quite frank, this isn't truly restrictive right here. I think it's the principle that it that it reflects. I don't have a problem with the ordinance the way it is, but we need to be more strategic and and purposeful and preserving and at the same time bring in businesses to our community that will have longevity which

we haven't been able to do. Yeah. Can it

Can I add one more thing, Mayor? So, um, actually, uh, Council Member Glon, what you just described is actually the exact reason why the the historic downtown, uh, committee wants to restrict it and the and the majority of the planning commission wants to restrict it. If it's more restricted or if it's not more restricted, then they can just come in and do it. No discussion. They don't have to go before council. But if it's more restricted, like the situation with Maverick, then they have to come in. they have to have the discussions and then you find the medium of what's right for your community and that's the premise of the historic downtown committees. Um um and I'm just representing their discussions, but that's the premise of why they're saying we think we should restrict this more so they at least have to come have the conversation because had had not Maverick wanted a little bit more than what our current restrictions were, we wouldn't have what we have.

David, you just made my day. If that was the purpose behind this, then I'm 100% because the the issue is the conversation and you know they fear that somebody's going to sneak something in and so on and so forth. Uh so if if that's the intent and you just want to put the barrier so that we have the opportunity to have the discussion exactly then uh I'm good with that. But I don't want to be restricted for restrictions sake for the sake of restrictions and have people bypass our little town and go somewhere else because they're more friendly.

As someone whose premise is to recruit business, I I totally agree with you. But there's some balance between that to create the conversations to have your community developed and planned the way you want your community. So, if we're going to if we're going to go down a whatif road, um, since we've been doing that, right, the I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to put a small enough convenience store because they make all their money in the big open with lots of goodies. That's where they make their money. And so, for whatifing, and what ifing, it's very unlikely they're going to buy two buildings and tear it down and put a maverick right, you know, in downtown. And so, that's what they just did, though. They bought they

but that was two buildings two historic. I mean

my point is that's what the historic committee that's why they're making this recommendation because that's exactly let me I got this out of Forbes. Let me just read directly from this article. It says is historic preservation a good idea that's gone too far. Um it's become a way for government empowered preservationist to obstruct new development. Um, locations of marginal historical value are frozen in time, hindering the ability of cities and their residents to adjust their build environments in response to changing economic circumstances. And we're if we're trying to lock oursel into something when the the economy is changing online, retail stores, box stores, um, historic designations also make it hard for property owners to develop their property for other uses. Anyway, I could go on, but that's just a a repeat of many articles I read about h downtown historic.

And I'll give you a little history and that caused me in agreement with it or the concept you just said. So, several years ago, I was on the historic preservation committee. Um, and they went through this table of juices and we actually did a whole bunch that we were going to restrict any type anything that wasn't a restaurant or retail basically that we were going to restrict them out and we can't get that in there.

Yeah. And so so to that point, I agree 100% that you have to still allow the market to be able to be met and and not not cut the legs off of of your existing building owners to be able to find tenants by by completely removing half of the possible uses that you can have down there. So So I really actually agree with you, Robert, in in principle of of uh not wanting to harm ourselves. I really feel this particular one does the opposite. I really feel like having a having a small area in our town that is different than everywhere else because it's not like if somebody wants to do um a large island gas station, there's not other places. We're not taking tell them they can't be in the community. We're talking about a very small area that we have a feel that adds value to our community and the owners that own those buildings, I would venture the large majority of us have invested there because of that feel. So, if you eliminate or or don't do something to kind of help um continue to care about keeping that that nice walkable downtown feel between here and the university, I think you harm a whole lot of business opportunity that they can't get that anywhere else. It's the only place that we can get that feel for the types of businesses that want that.

So, sorry, let let me just say something and then Carter, forgive me for interrupting. I didn't put my finger up like you did. Hey, that's okay. I've just learned with this mayor, it's a lot easier if you just go like this on you. I try to actually recognize you when I want to say

I appreciate that. Uh so yesterday, David, uh we spent uh a good chunk of our day up north with the Inland Port Conference and so forth. And the theme that went through when the breakout rooms uh was how hard it was to do business. I mean, some of these people that invested hundreds of millions of dollars in some of the development areas up north and even here with BZI and stuff, there were all kinds of impediments that were put into place that uh eventually they all sort of resolved. Okay. But it took a ton of conversation and discussion uh between the investors, the regulators and the the civic officers. Correct. What I want to make sure is that we as civic uh servants don't put so many restrictions into the opportunities that are going to be coming our way that we end up pushing people out. There are options everywhere to do business and you know we're not at the top of the list in some cases right now. uh we're doing better than most, but we need to do better. And I I just don't want to become that restricted area to do business in in in in anywhere in the state.

Yeah. No, go David Carter first. Sorry. No, you're fine. Um you know, the one and I I say this a lot, but I actually mean it this time. The one last thing that I'll say for the rest of the time. I know the one last thing that I'll say on this as for a dollar

being an elected official when this maverick was put in the one other thing that I just can't help but come back to and and I and I agree somewhat with one thing that Robert said that people do change but in my just over two years now I have never heard from more constituents than that one single item and so I also have to ask myself what do the 44,000 or 40 whatever thousand residents of Cedar City who elected me to sit in this chair. What would they want? And I don't think they want another gas station in their downtown. Now, there's going to be hundreds of arguments for both sides, but I for me, I feel that the majority would say it's enough and let's restrict the gas station in the downtown. And that means something to me. I mean, that's why I was elected. I'm here to represent the citizens of this town. I'm not here to represent the business. I mean, certain businesses are I'm here to represent the citizens. And so that's just how I feel and that's why I brought it forward. And so

thank you, Carter.

Yeah, sorry. Um I will I'll add to what Carter just said and then I'll speak my point um that I was thinking about is um my office probably never received so many calls as uh as I did during that time opposing Maverick and I had to talk dozens of people through what we were doing to help it fit cohesively in the historic downtown. Um so there there is a lot of truth to that. What I would say is in business there's a bal in business and community there's a balance between restricting so restrictive that it's difficult for business and leaving it so open that it's harmful to the community or doesn't make the community what you want it to be. That's the purpose of planning and that's that's really every community has to make their decisions on what that balance is for them and which areas have uh the the pendulum swings a little more this way or that way. And that's that's why we have our historic committee. So, I'll just kind of leave it at that. I I would say, you know, I would say I think uh it's been pretty thoroughly spoken. I I would recommend just moving it to an action. Last comment. Well,

Scott Scott had one first and then we'll go to yours. I just wanted to ask I I think we've talked this. I'm ready to have the public hearing open so we can move on.

So, I just want to make one last comment um on the on the Maverick deal. Um so, I got a lot of calls as well, just like everyone else. I was part of the one that voted for it, but I've also had a lot of people since tell me that that looks really nice. The traffic's not as I thought as I thought it was. And I'm glad it's there. it really added to the downtown. And so we don't want to we do not want to exclude people from having those same type of opportunities. That's that's my point. And then what we want today, I mean, in the 70s, they wanted shag carpet and lowered ceilings. And so we're trying to predict the the future based on what we want. Well, we've got to leave it open enough that we have some

I've got a budget amendment for my office to have that if that's okay. Okay. We'll go ahead and we'll go ahead and open the public hearing. Anybody would like to speak to this one?

Good evening. This is a Who are you?

Oh, thank you. I I'm not sure. Can you help me? It's been a long day. Tom Jet. Um, I voted in in in favor of this change. And after I left, I thought, did I make the wrong did I vote the wrong way? And like Robert said, I struggle when when I sat up here and we had this discussion. In my mind, it was basically 200 North to Center Street. That in my mind that was historic downtown. And then we said, "No, it goes up to 200 South." And for the life of me, to this moment, I still cannot remember think of any buildings that are really historic from uh unless you want to say, "Hey, if they're more than 50 years old, they're historic." So, I guess Pizza Factory is probably historic.

The Al Motel, the Coca-Cola Bottling Company, Ace Hardware are all over 50 years of age. Okay. And and we've seen what's happened to some of them. Sure. And so we have to be careful passing this ordinance to where we do not make it so it's so arduous for them to tear their building down to do something unique with it that they're they say, "Well, I'll just keep old and reduce the rent and and it'll become a blight." Mhm.

We have a piece of property and and I'm not here to take sides on one one or the other, but we have a piece of property. Um I think it's called the Star Motel. Sits right at the corner of 200 South. Magnus. Magneson. Okay. They've ch Have they changed the name? No, it's been that way for a long time. The M the M. Okay. Um about 10 years ago there was I I can't remember what national change but it was like a ride aid or was a Walgreens before they went out. It was the Walgreens before they went out in the Providence Center.

Uh that might have been that might have been it. They wanted to buy up that hotel and tear it down. And again like Maverick, they're they're they're a wellfunded organization. I hate to see us limit opportunities if it's them by saying no nothing over 3,000 square feet or no big box stores or that that would be a perfect store and and there's a there's a chain that's coming after Maverick with a vengeance and that would be uh terribles

terribles. Thank you. And you know and so when you say I have my doubts I'll ever see an opportunity like that. Yeah. Don't don't put your bet your money too much against it and this. So, I'm not I don't want to see our town downtown turn into a franchise center and I don't want to see it turn into big box stores, but just keep that one one issue in mind that we can we can try to pretty ourselves right out of existence. And uh and and I I think it's it's something that needs to be, you know, well thought to Carter's idea. Well, if someone brings a grandiose idea in, they're not even going to think about bringing a grandiose idea in. And I would be personally insulted say, well, you're going to make it a beautiful and you're muddied up and you're wellunded and you're and you've got, you know, you're going to make something pretty. So, we're going to give an exception to that rule. That's how you get the public to hate government even more because they think, "Oh, you're controlled by money and big business." And that's the last message we want to send. So, I'll sit down.

Okay. Anybody else? Thank you, Tom. Okay. We'll close the public hearing. Mayor, I would move that we move this on action and for next week. Have a motion. Second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? You don't even want to put it on to talk about next action. I thought you said consction. Yes. Action. Yes. Yes. I would have probably pushed back because I knew there was enough discussion that it probably needed to go. It has to because it's an ordinance. Yeah. It's an ordinance. Okay. Move that one to action next week. Um number seven, consider an ordinance amending 3510 prohibiting overnight parking on 900 North near the cemetery. Chief

Oh, is this the road on the north side of the cemetery? Mayor, council, good evening, Jimmy Rhoden. I didn't know Randall if you were going to speak to this or not, but I'm I'm prepared. So, do we have a map? I'm sorry. We're going to We need to see a map where this is because there's confusion. 900 West and or sorry, 900 North 300. So, yeah. So, right across the street from the car share essentially. Um,

yep. Right there. So, as most of you are aware, we've had some issues down there with parking, um some overnight camping. We've been working on some of that. This is one of what we hope will be the final pieces to try to clean up that area, um get some compliance. So, uh work we worked with Mr. Mchuan to uh offer this amendment to the ordinance that would restrict parking uh in the evening hours u to prevent some camping and some basic vagrancy uh in that area to clean that up a little bit. So, I've thought a lot about this and I think u pretty much all well three of the council members here have all been actively involved with Oklahoma's council and were very well aware of the situation and I want to again tell you that Councilman Cox did Yman's job at that position. He was terrific. Um but my question is if we limit this where are they going to go because they're going to go somewhere.

That's a good question. So, we've worked with the Karen share. Chief Adams has been in conversations with the director out there to try to tackle it from both sides. They have a parking lot there. So, those who are staying at the Karen share can park in their parking lot, use their resources.

This is for those who are not receiving those services who park there or leave vehicles there. I talked to our code enforcement officer this morning. He gave me some more context of that. He said that he's talked to people who have drugged trailers there and left them because they heard that there were homeless people who needed a place to stay and they would leave them for a period of time. And so it's just grown into this problem that's a little more difficult to control with the ordinances that we have. So we believe that this will help. I don't know that it will be the 100% solution, but I do believe that it will help with this problem. they have this. How does the um Karen sheriff feel about this?

So my understanding, again, I didn't have these conversations, but my understanding is that Chief Adams and the director have had multiple conversations about this and they are on board and supportive of this. Yeah, I had lunch with the director this this week and we talked a lot about the the the future development and the plans that they have for over there and he did mention you did a great job by the way with them and um and he did mention that this was becoming a problem and it's also a safety issue for their own people that are taking that they're trying to take care of. Just remind me the property right behind Sher Karen Share belongs to them. The one going north.

Right. Yeah. Right. Right. It's further further to the left. You have where the two two west is. The keep going to the left. Left left left. So the one up above it belongs to them and then the one to the west belongs to Southwest Behavioral. Southwest Behavioral. and they tried to buy it.

Yeah, I know they did. And I know that somebody wanted to sell the land and do something different with it. Um I I don't want to put words in your mouth, but Councilman uh Schmidt um basically said, "Why don't we try to facilitate something if there's an overflow in that area with the with the permission of the owners if there is a real need or is this a just a crime?" So some of these people who are staying there have they are no longer available for services at the car and share because they can't comply or refuse to comply with some of their yeah their reg

policies and regulations. Uh I don't know that it's um an issue that we want to create another location for for the homeless. I don't know that that's the best solution. In fact, we've worked hard to get them out of some of these areas um that you're that you're mentioning with camping and trailers and and tents and it's just it's causes a lot of problems. To that point, they actually put a fence up because they did not want them on the they don't want them there. Okay. So, yeah. Well, the ones that should be brought back now off of those areas and now it's just an issue with what's happening just on the street. Councilman Phillips is 100% right. We move everybody off of here. They are going to go somewhere else and then we're going to have another same problem,

right? What do we do? They will go somewhere. Well, but they should be going somewhere else anyway. Yeah, but I mean it could end up in our bsentennial parking lot, the gravel lot, or it could end up behind the cemetery or who knows where they'll go. Yeah. The likelihood though is I think they come here because of the connection to the services. Correct. and they're hoping to be able to still um get others they've built relationships with that are getting services that they're you know that is correct like it's it's because of that location that's the problem that they'll they'll go somewhere else but they'll go out away from the city don't they or they'll come in compliance with what they need to do in order to receive the services themselves and if they're unwilling to do that then they should go somewhere so how are you going to just going to ticket them or what do you have in mind

that's the thought process is initially we we discussed empoundment. We didn't feel like that was uh the right way to go right off the bat. So, it would they're already down on their luck and don't have any money. Not not not all, but some are. Yes. But we don't want to compound their life problems uh by impounding their their only property that they have likely. Um so, a citation, warnings, we'll try to do education. Uh we'll we'll put signage up to make sure that it's clear. Uh and then of course hopefully with that we can u get them to move along. So So Randall, what are the options there?

So and again the biggest one that I have seen when we've tried to put some of these restrictions in is it gives the the patrol officers when they're dealing with sometimes other issues, right? They don't get called out because they're bored enough to look at parking. They're called out because there are problems with violence or drugs or whatever. And they go out and they don't have as many tools. And so if they have a tool that says you're not allowed to be here, you need to move along. Sometimes that's all they need and the police can say that and the person moves along. If the police don't have a reason to say that, then their next option is okay, is there something to arrest you on to clear the problem or do we leave it?

Um, so more often than not, my experience has been is if we have adequate signage that tells people when and where they can't park, police are able to enforce that pretty well and most people move along. Um the other one that I would note sometimes your struggle is always there are those that are down on their luck whether by just life or their own choices or a bit of both. Um oftentimes for a city the struggle is do we want those together congregated together or do we want them spread out? Congregated together is usually a much bigger problem in my experience with law enforcement because they uh

with either the drug or the mental health issues multiply when you put them together. uh and if they're the ones that can't comply with Karen Shar's rules. Now Karen Share is not the strictest of locations. It is not hard to follow the rules for most people. Those who can't, if you leave them close together, we are much more likely to have negative responses that the police are going to have to get involved in and we've seen that from time to time. So yes, they may still remain in the city or they may move just outside the city, but we do have better luck if they're not congregated.

Correct. Now, I do want I do want to note one thing just to make sure everybody understands. We are not asking to block off this entire section of 900 North. If you look at your map, it's basically on the west edge of 149 West. So, if you look at just that bottom part, so the west, not the east end right there between those two properties, that's more or less it's about 500 ft. That was my question. Are they just going to move up the street and park further to the east? So, that is a good question. And I went out there this morning early to see what it looked like. Um and there were several cars as you would imagine um that were the the ones we're trying to move along.

The trailer park has such limited parking that that most of the people who live there park along uh 900 west in front of the trailer park. So there is this small section at least this morning where there were no vehicles parked. So is there a chance they moved to there? Yes, there is a chance that they move to there. I I don't believe that's going to be the case. Um but there is a chance. Okay. We we were partly when when the chief and I were talking about it, we were concerned with eliminating that on street parking for the trailer park that's there because of that restricted parking.

Um and so we're just trying to balance those interests. Obviously, we'll bring it back to you if they've kind of shifted. But my best guess is the the homeowners there who need those parking spots and they use them day in and day out and they're going to be competing. They don't leave their cars, right? If they're ongoing issues with trailers that stay too long, but they'll be the first ones to call and say that vehicle's been there more than 72 hours and we have a solution at that point. Um, it's these other ones that nobody has a reason to call in until someone's getting beat up or something worse is going on over there that I think is is the solution we're trying to find is for that problem. So, you're wanting to start this at the east side of the property that says 149 west or the west side?

It's it's on the sorry, the west side of it. It's between that property point with the Yeah. Thank you. So, right there a little bit more to the right. Just to the right of that asphalt right there. So you want to do it from there to the end of the street all the way to the the drainage ditch. Yeah. Where dead ends. Well, yeah. We're at dead ends. Yeah. Correct. All the way. So just that section, it's about 500 ft um is all we're asking for at this point because that is kind of the the worst part of the problem that we're dealing with.

So is the concern is it because I mean I know there's the car and share obviously has a wide variety of people that they serve. There's the dropin services. There's the people that actually stay there. So what your the main concern is is so we have people that maybe they're using the drop-in services which they don't there's not as many rules you have to comply with if you're just using the drop-in services whether that be meals, laundry, shower, those types of things. So they're sleeping in their cars and then they're using I mean is that the concern is people that are staying overnight in these vehicles or they're just leaving these cars here?

All the above. I I think it's just a congregation area for these people uh because they have friends who stay in the shelter perhaps because they're getting services um because we we've kind of moved them off of the creek that's that runs right there camp from camping. We've taken them out of this area. So, we've kind of moved them back to the best of our ability and this is what we're left with is them parking for extended period of time on the streets. some of them sleeping in their cars. Uh, and like Mr. McHune said, it causes a lot of problems when you mix generally uh, mental health issues and sometimes substance abuse. And it's just becomes an area that's hard to manage. And so, um, it would be great if they weren't all congregated right there in that area.

I have, um, just my observation, I've been down there multiple times. James and his crew know their clientele very well and I think this might give him more ability to have people leave to be honest. Just seeing he's broke up fights I've he they do phenomenal and I think if there is clientele and they're there he'll say park in the parking lot. If they're not they say you're no longer allowed and there's no parking right there. And I I think it gives him more teeth to be honest. um to to that point if he's supporting it, it's probably a good reason for us. Absolutely.

I think it gives him teeth to get the people away that are because I I've watched him I anyway it's I've seen a lot of things there but it would make force them away from the situation which will help him as well. And again remember they can still come during the day for services. This is just to prevent the overnight. I'm going to tell you our our our graveyard shift officers have way more problems with these issues. Uh, night time is just a bigger problem. Sure. Would be from what time to what time? Uh, it's it's listed as 6 pm to 8:00 am that they can't be there.

Those can obviously be adjusted, but that's what we figured would hit the times where we typically have our most problems. I just wonder if we should because if people are there for the drop in dinner service, I wonder if we should go like seven so that way it gives people because if somebody's parked out there and they've walked in to go have dinner at I think that um obviously we want an ordinance that's enforceable, right? But I also think that common sense does play and our officers are if that were the case obviously we would not issue a citation as someone who was stopping in to receive services and we could we could easily figure that out. When I was there this morning, I can tell you the parking lot was pretty much empty though at the car and share and these vehicles were lined along the road. So,

is it worth a call to to to James and ask him what time their dinner service is? Uh, we can certainly do that. Yeah. That's what I said. Just get his kind of blessing on what he thinks those best hours are. I think would be what they whatever he feels like. I just Yeah. What time the crowd clear out at dinner? Yeah. Just a question. Um, is there any other area of the city that uh has a similar problem?

Uh, I can tell you that the ordinance that this is tied to, there are like 29, I think, other locations that have specific ordinances about parking. I don't know that they have this particular problem, but u a portion of a street being marked no parking is is not unusual for Cedar City. We have that in this ordinance that we're asking for an amendment. But it's your question to the congregating of Yeah. I can tell you just based on being on that committee, we go and do homeless counts. Most of them end up up the canyon. Yeah. In the cedar trees and they kind of congregate there, but it's outside way out north fiddlers. Yeah. It depends on the time of the year that you do the pit count south by the old landfill. Go up there, too. Okay. So,

okay. There any other comments on this one? Just so you know, the uh their website itself lists dinner as served at 6 PM. So that's when it starts. Okay. Just check with him and then let us know next week that that's doable. Thank you, Mayor. I would move that we put this on action for next week. Second. Have a motion in a second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? And just make sure is there anybody that did want to talk to that one. Okay. All right. Next one. a public hearing to consider revisions to the 202526 fiscal year budget. Marsh, she's I'm getting assaulted over here.

Good evening, council and and honorable mayor. Um Terry Marsh, finance director. Um tonight before you I'm so sorry. Uh my screen he's done voodoo on it and it's blank. So I've cursed it. So cute. I I I feel better already.

So, we'll we'll we'll limp along. Um so, the first the first um department that's requested uh uh changes is the police department. Most of these are just um moving the money that has already been reversed or has already come in into their expenditure side too. Um, and as you can see, there's there's those categories right there if you have any questions on them. Um, the next one is the street department and these are funds that were build out to residents for reimbursement on projects for uh, sidewalk maintenance and um, the the money is just being moved to the expenditure side. So we can account for both of that.

Uh could you explain what the sidewalk project is? Are we reimbursing people to put in sidewalks or what is what is this? When we build a when we build if you build a if your project involves a master plan trail, you pay for a normal width sidewalk and we re you put it in to our bigger width and we reimburse for the difference for the trail. Send in another reimbursement. Is that right? This is money coming into us. This is money coming in. Oh, I'm take some out then. I This isn't money coming out of our So, money that uh to cover those.

It's as far as my understanding is it's it's money that um the city has spent. Oh, there's Ryan. So, I think a lot of these are sometimes we'll work with the the um residents and um we they do half of the work. they'll have it torn out and then we come we'll have go tear it out. They'll come they'll have it put back in. But sometimes they'll ask us if we'll do it all if they reimburse it. So they just go ahead and pay and we do the whole project. And that's I think what this is is stuff we've brought in. It got put into an account that doesn't go back into the expenses. Now we're just moving it back to reimburse for what we've spent. But I did explain that other part correct, didn't I? Isn't that how we do trails? Master plan trails.

Yeah, but that's not my That's just not this transaction. Correct. You're fine. I did explain that correct. Yeah. Well, Miss Marsh, I have a question on the uh the project on 600 South traffic signal. Is this money that we have budgeted now and we're just moving it into the right account? Um yeah, this is actually savings that we have. This is the opposite. So, um we have savings from from this project and we're just moving it to another project. Okay. Whatever the standard is, if you Thank you. I think it's the standard. Okay. Then we have the library. The library got a cleft grant which we're really happy about. Y

and um they're just moving that into an expenditure account so they can spend the money. Um as you know we get a lot of donations for Cross Hollow and this is the same as the library grant. We're just moving those to where we can spend them

and events. Um this is sponsorships and grants that they have received and um they're just diving them out amongst um their events to help u defay some of the costs. Events Brandon Burks. and the water fund. Um, we have a reduction of the Martin Flat project as you know that you voted um to to end and we're moving some of that money over to the chlorination system for the Wills project.

So, I had a question about this. I tell me where is this 800 South tank going? I mean, I know it says 800 south, but where's it going? So, you drive up across Hollow Road. You're headed uh south. You're moving all that dirt. No. No. You look over where the retention pond is up on the hill. There's a power substation. We own a acreish behind the substation. That's where the tanks designed to go. Okay. And this is just the design for it, correct?

This is to This So, we bought that design some time ago. This is to uh go back to the same engineering company that we bought the design from to have them update it so that we can get it approved by the state regulatory authorities. Uh they initially approved the design. Those approvals have a shelf life. Mhm. Uh the shelf life has lapsed. So they need to run it back through the state process. It's not going to cost 300,000 to do that. Good.

That's only one part of it. The other part of it is to pay this company, the same engineering company to do the construction management on the tank. That's extremely uh labor intensive. This is going to be an all concrete tank. Uh the engineering time on site that they're going to have to put into making sure that no cold seams. Yeah. That all the concrete's poured correctly, all the rebar's done correctly, they use the right type of concrete. Sure. Uh that's that's going to cost the bulk of that money.

Terry, I do have a question. If you could go back just that one. Um and if you don't have the answer right now, that is 100% okay. But I would be curious. So with taking this out of the Martin, does that pretty much zero us out on Martin's flat? Have we or is there still more left in that? Um I guess both of those would this zero out either of those previous projects? I just updated the the capital um list and it is there's still money in there in both of them. Mud springs and Martins Flat. I don't know about Mud Springs, but Martin's Flat I think there's still some money 30 to reclaim the well. No, I don't know off the top of my head, but I can get back. That's fine. Yeah, just there's a lot of numbers involved. Are they done?

Yeah, we do. You want to try to tackle that one this week, Jonathan, or just We've paid our final bill on Martin. You're being asked to come to the mic. Unless they still have that 20 30,000 claim or whatever it was. Oh yeah, Jonathan will know. Jonathan St is um city engineering department. So right now we have about 850,000 left in Martins's flat. Oh. Um so this would drop it down to about 550. So we'll just kind of pick at it as we need it. Well, we're going to have a really big price at So Martin's Flat is primarily impact fees, right? Impact fees.

Only pick at it for certain things. The budget that's coming through has a number of impact fee projects in it. It might make sense to close it out and move it to another project. If we're done up there, we're done. We might as well move the money for something productive. Yeah. Matt and I are bringing your project. Okay. Is it the cash reduction project? No. Okay. The Mud Springs line that had $4 million in it and so this would reduce it by that amount. Oh, so this is the first this is the first taking of from the four million officially. Okay.

That's another conversation you need to have is whether you want to that money was earmarked for water. My understanding is was never transferred into the enterprise fund. It was not. So So it's earmarked within the general fund. Yeah. So you need to know you you guys have to tell us to unearmark it or do we really want to move it for water? Was it just earmarked? It was earmarked just as general water though in the general fund. It was sitting in the general fund. It was never moved to the enterprise. Therefore, we can spend it on whatever we want to. And I' I'd say that'll just be part of our

Not anymore. It's more like 3 million,400. Yeah, I got it. Yeah. Is this is this something that can roll from one fiscal year to another? Yeah, it'll be part of our budget discussions of what to do with it. Okay. The mayor has plans for it, I'm sure. Once once you move the money from general funds to the water fund, you can't move it back. I'm sorry. Hang on. I said once you move it from the general fund to the water funds, you can't move it back. You can't ever take money out of the enterprise funds. Okay. Except for the enterprise. That's illegal. Okay. Thank thank you for this. Uh

I open a public hearing on this item about the budget revisions. Anybody like to speak to that? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing and entertain a motion. Mayor, I move that we put this on consent for next week. Have a motion. I apologize. It has to have a resolution which you'll have in your packet. Then it's going to go in action. So it'll go to action. Motion second. And a second. All in favor? Any opposed? Mayor, I move that we close this work meeting. Second. Motion a second. All in favor? I I All right.