Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Debbie Cole, Justin Henderson here, Dean Haddock here, Matthew Fler here. Are there any corrections to the minutes dated What day was that? 9:22 2025. We got three up there. Yeah, there's three of them. 8 8:25. So 8 8 2025 September 8th, uh October 22nd, and September 22nd. Are there any changes to the minutes?

Not. May I have a motion to approve the minutes? Can staff just kind of clarify the 2018 um just give us a little um reminder of why there's 2018 minutes on this agenda.

Yeah. Uh through the chair. So, uh, the clerk's office has been going through a lot of their old records, reorganizing and looking for, you know, any anomalies. And they found that these particular minutes from 2018, although were reviewed in a meeting, the actual copy was never signed. They were never officially adopted by the planning commission. So, it's really just a scrivener's error. They're looking for the current body to vote and approve those minutes from 2018. Do I have a motion? Motion to approve all minutes. Second. Uh, just for discussion quickly, Mr. D, were you not were you present in that meeting?

Which meeting? Uh, the 2018 meeting minutes? Very likely. Does anything stand out to you about it? Not one thing except it's uh No, nothing. Except it's in. Okay, that was my only question. Um, all those in favor, please say I. I. I. All those opposed, please say nay. Motion to approve the minutes from 98 2025, 1022 2018, and 9:22 2025 is approved. All right. To the staff, is there any correspondence for any item on the agenda?

Uh, yes. You should have received some emails on the DAS. Uh these are in addition to the ones that were in the packet. Uh most of them are for the mess that uh sorry most of them are for PC 1725 and then the one on the top was for uh PC 1525. All right. New business. Then moving on. Uh the planning commission meetings are generally quasi judicial in nature. All decisions of the commission will be based on competent substantial evidence including testimony provided in this meeting. Any person who is not an applicant or agent that wishes to speak will need to fill out a speaker card located on the side table by the door and turn them into the city clerk. Each member of the public will be given three minutes to speak on each item. Please refrain from speaking from the audience and applause and cheering will not be allowed. Yeah. Um, please silence your cell phones. I'll wait. Okay. Thank you. Uh, vice chair or acting vice chair, can you please read the application by title? PC 1525

to please. May we please have the staff presentation?

You may indeed. Uh this is application PC 1525 which is a conditional use application for a property located at 602 Shedder Avenue. The conditional use is to allow for outdoor seating at an existing micro brewery with a tap room located in the commercial service zoning district pursuit to section 34619 D6 of the Jacksonville Beach Land Development Code. The subject property is located in the commercial service CS zoning district. The current uses of the property include retail sales, co-work office space, and a micro brewery with an indoor tap room and coffee service. In the previous LDC, the CS zoning district uh was and is a unique district uh that had some limitations placed on the uses that did not uh necessarily make sense with uh the CS zoning surrounding uses and other uses allowed in the district, particularly with its location um being adjacent to other commercial and industrial uses. So, uh changes were made in the current code to allow uh certain accessory uses to those primary uses, some of them conditional, such as this one. Um, but the attempt was to iron out these inconsistencies and make a more cohesive and internally compatible zoning district. The current owner and operator uh has used the parking facility for outdoor markets and celebrations on a regular basis through our special event permit process. This carries with it specific limitations on the number of events and the types and activities that can occur during one of these events. A large part of these restrictions come down to a limitation on the number of events per year, which is currently limited to six. So any outdoor activities were through that process at this facility and they had to go through that permitting and they could only do them six times a year. All

right. Is that better? Are we good? Okay. Uh, the applicant is requesting to convert part of the outdoor parking service area into a dedicated outdoor seating area. The use of outdoor seating was not permitted at the time of the conditional use u under the previous LDC but was one that was added under the new code. Um therefore this is the first time uh they have applied to be able to use any outdoor seating. The surrounding properties uh are also included are also located in the CS zoning district. This district allows for a number of intense uses that can include the generation of noise and other potential uh nuisances. Um, if these uses were located in a less intense zoning district, they would conflict. Uh, conflicts might arise, such as noise from adjacent uses. Um, and approval would not be recommended. However, as CS allows for uses such as boat building and repair, auto sales, RV sales, storage of building materials, gas stations, and other more intense uses, the use of outdoor seating for a tasting room would be compatible with these surrounding uses, as well as all other uses allowed in the CS district. Additionally, this area is adjacent to the C2 uh commercial zoning district along Beach Boulevard, which is our most intense commercial district. Also, as part of the changes to the new land development code, there are now options for alternative parking design to accommodate alternative modes of transportation that are generally encouraged to promote a more diverse form of transportation. One of these new options is the ability to provide golf cart only parking spaces uh which are smaller in design and strictly designed to accommodate golf carts. As such, they uh can be designed to um provide more spaces in what would be uh traditional commercial parking spaces for full-size vehicles. Staff has noted that golf cart parking was a request

that many came up many times during the workshops of the new LDC process. uh given the number of golf carts that are used for transportation by beach residents. The applicant is proposing to enclose the area of the outside seating with the required uh fencing per section 37727 for the sale of beer and wine in conjunction with their existing indoor tap room. As part of the reconfigur configuration of the outside space, the applicant will convert three existing full-size parking spaces into the outside seating area um and into six golf cart spaces, thus increasing the overall available parking while diversifying the parking types as allowed under the LDC. Surrounding uses include adjoining to the west, warehouse storage, adjoining to the south, uh across the existing alley, additional warehouse storage and flex space. There we go. Um uh to the east across 6th Avenue South is a service garage for motor vehicles and to the north across Shedder is a package liquor store, the ABC that's currently there. The proposed use of outside seating for the sale and service of beer and wine in conjunction with the micro brewery and small tap room is not in conflict with the surrounding uses and is consistent with the CS zoning district. Based on the application and included information as well as reasons outlined in the staff memo staff uh finds the request to meet the criteria of section 34533. Therefore, the planning and development department recommends approval of PC1525 for outside seating for a tap room in conjunction with a micro brewery in the CS zoning district. Just give you a quick tour here. I can remember how to use this thing. There we go. So, this is the sort of surrounding area here. You

can see that uh this is the aforementioned uh motor vehicle area. This is uh additional storage and warehousing as well as this is uh storage and warehousing and then this is the ABC right there. Um there are a number of uh variances and conditional uses that were approved for the existing facility as it is including the use of uh sorry pvious materials for some of the parking prior to us including that in the code as well as the uh removal of the required setbacks for parking and some of the internal parking landscape standards. Uh all this was done in um roughly 2018 2019 when they were first approved. Um just to give you a quick sort of tour of the zoning area again. So the uh and forgive my color blindness. Uh fuchsia is your CS zoning district and this blue box right there is their uh property. The red is our uh C2 commercial which is our intense commercial. You have the um this is a PUD for the public's facility and then this is warehouse storage which is in the um industrial zoning district. And then uh further down several blocks you enter into some of the um higher density residential zoning districts. This is sort of a rough sketch of their proposed uh site plan. So, you've got the proposed patio area here, which is 324 square ft, I think. Um, and then these would be the three existing parking spaces that will now become the smaller

six golf cart spaces along the front there. And then this is a rendering of their proposed design. Um, this is currently uh where they bring in supplies for the brewing and the brewing facilities are back here. And then this is a bit of uh enclosed seating that has a door like a rollup door. And then behind that is more uh brewing equipment. And then the actual tap room is over on this side inside the building. Happy to take any questions if you have any. Any questions for staff?

Uh just when the original um approval for this space uh went through this committee um did anybody raise any objections to this kind of uh You mean back in 2019? Mhm. Um I believe there was one um email or letter that was in the original folder. I don't recall. I mean I wasn't I wasn't here at the time, so I was going by the records that were scanned into the system, but I'm fairly certain there was one at least objection at the time to the overall concept. Thanks.

All right. As a reminder, each member of the public will be given three minutes to speak when we open the public hearing. Does any commission member have any exparte communication to disclose? Close. Disclose. No. Hearing none. Uh would the applicant please come forward to be sworn in and give any presentation. You're going to tap the bottom of the microphone button. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. My name is Ty Wallace. Give my personal address or my business address. Whatever. Um 709 Fifth Avenue North, Jacksonville Beach resident.

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you go? Yes. Thank you.

I'm good. All right. Um hello, my name is Ty Wallace, owner and operator, um along with my other two partners here, uh of Ink Factory Brewing. Um we've come a long way with this project in just a short five years uh with a huge help with the community um and planning commission and everyone else to get us here where we're at. Um I'm here really for two reasons tonight. One to readress our commitment to our community uh being a locally owned and operated business here in Jacksonville Beach to promote a family-friendly environment. It's huge for breweries. I don't know if you've been to our establishment, but that's what we promote. I have two kids myself lives five blocks away. So it's very important to me um into our core found fundamentals. Um we've done this in various ways on site as uh as you mentioned we've defin we've done six we get six a year which is great um but it is limited but we we wrap this around fundraisers um we're doing a pink punk breast cancer awareness actually this weekend on site um which we raise funds for the Donna Foundation um and that's an annual foundation for us that we donate to. Um, and again, we're up, this is our fifth year, so we're pretty uh pretty honored and and work hard and small business is not easy as you all know. Uh, and second reason we're here is to uh to ask for approve of this the small outdoor patio. It's just a small extension um outdoor for our we have a burger truck, Hardress Burgers. They make excellent hard press burgers. If you haven't been, come check it out. Um, but also it's a dog friendly area patio, which we do not allow dogs in our p in our current tap room. We're super small and limited. Um, and it's just one thing that we constantly have to turn away uh patrons daily. So, this is something that we're really uh we're hoping to get this approved tonight uh for that reason primarily. Other key things to note, um the outdoor patio use has already been approved um as as mentioned here by Christian the latest LDC which is we've been pushing really hard. You know, this is great. It's bringing everything up to kind of a a competitive level um in the

community. We have other breweries and just down the street. They all have patios. They all have kid-friendly. They all have dog friendly. So, it's just something that we're trying to, you know, survive out there. So, this really helps will help us get there and be competitive. Um, Christian and Heather both been huge advocates. I They probably think I'm annoying, but I really want to make sure we're covered on our parking variances and all the those hard nuances that I know are very important, especially in Jacksonville Beach. So, we came in and I I pounded them and we've went through and made sure that we were able to fulfill everything on site without having to do any type of parking variance, which I know is a crucial step. Um, so that's all been checked off and and they've approved it. So, I feel I feel really good about that scenario. We do have a ton of golf carts and bikes that come and when we see one one golf cart that pulls up in one spot, I'm like we could have two golf carts and and a bike rack. Um, so it it really is a more efficient use of our space. Um, I also like to note that we've had zero complaints over the five years in operation by any any of our neighbors um on record. So that's been a huge I think a compliment to oursel. I'll pat myself on the back for that. We do our best to kind of keep things in check and make friends with our neighbors and so that is a record there. Um and and that's pretty much it. I just every day we fulfill our same promise as when we went in front of the city council numerous times, countless community meetings um where we basically poured our heart out and said, "Hey, we're committing to turn this area," which is Shedder Avenue. I don't know if you've all been over there. It's come a long way since even we've moved in. Um turned the lights on and having those things have really cleared out a lot of homeless issues and and robberies and all those other things that are way in the past in my opinion. But um but it is a daily push that we all do just to keep the doors open and and keep that message going that we want this to be a family-friendly environment for for years to come. So that's it. That's all I got. Thank you guys so much for your time tonight. I appreciate it.

Do you have any questions or am I done? Do any commission members have any questions for the applicant? I do, Mr. Chairman.

Um it's an eclectic area. I think it's it's fair to say. Um, and I, for example, and today I I drove there at about I don't know, um, 11 in the morning. Um, and just drove around and said, you know, I because it's always good to remind yourself, you know, what a site looks like. Um, but I wanted to just ask you, is the parking working? Because the impression that I got as I drove around was um I was a little surprised that there seemed to be a whole bunch of places to park in part because of the diversity of uses that when your patrons needed to park perhaps there'd be spaces, you know, kind of on the street or next to the street that would be available. But that was my impression. Can you give me how it's working kind of daytoday? Is parking working given your kind of unique circumstances? Thanks. I would say I would say yes, the parking is working. Um we do have the special events where we dedicate we actually open up the parking lot for the events. So the the you know those are kind of rare. We only have six and those where parking does go out to more of the easements. Um and bikes, you know, people tend to just say, "Hey, I'll just bike or or Uber over." You know, we've seen a lot of that too during those six events, but on the daily, yeah, our we have co-workers upstairs. Um so they're in and out for coffee. It's it's never really a big pinch. the the co-work leaves around the same time when our kind of you know happy hour starts. So um that kind of eb and flow kind of filters out and then they fill back in. But um but yeah, I'd say our density seems to be just right um for what we have on site. Luckily we own the building and the parking lot. So it's kind of a nice we're able to maximize that with help of reducing the setbacks and those things um that we're able to maximize that. But uh but yeah, I'd love to have more parking, you know, always. But uh for what we have, you know, I think we're very fortunate because many

business in Jacksonville Beach don't even have a parking lot. So I I do think it's working as it is. Yes. Thank you. No problem. No more questions. Cool. All right. I will now open the public hearing. Not yet. Okay. Sorry. Do we have any speaker cards? Yes, Mr. Chairman, we do. Um I'll So, the ones I'll mention first are the ones that wish to address us and then there are some that have um told us their um position and I will read those out. Um uh first is Jennifer Peace.

Come on. Come on down. It's Pico. Sorry. I'm sorry. Did I mispronounce your name? It's okay. It's P E A C O. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's my handwriting. It's okay. Jennifer Pico, 507, Declaration, Jackson Beach, Florida.

I do. Uh my husband and I own the uh Coastal Auto directly across from Ink Factory. So,

sorry. We own the autos uh repair shop right across from Inc. Factory. If you seen all the auto cars on that picture, that was ours. Yep. Um so parking wise, I think um we're all been pretty good neighbors between ABC, we we know the managers there, Inc. Factory. Um even the uh renters, not the owner of the Parlor Donuts. uh Hank from next door where the nursery was. We've all kind of worked together and um we've all tried to help out watch the homeless um nest that's been going on. Uh Inc's been great about it. I think some outdoor uh area would be great. They do have a lot of kids there. Um it's very family friendly uh and dog friendly, but they can't go inside. Um, but they've they've been great neighbors. I've never had a problem with them with parking. They've always given us a heads up for their events. Um, we've given them a heads up, you know, if we've had overflow or influx. Um, ABC has been great. Um, but I think an outdoor area for that area of town is great for a little industrial spot. Um before they were there, we had a lot of homeless people obviously leaving ABC and littering with from, you know, their alcohol and what have you. And since they've been over there, we haven't had that problem whatsoever. So, it's been nice and clean. They keep everything up. Um it's been a great relationship. And I think that if a little open area think if they can expand a little bit, it'd be great.

Thank you. Okay. Terry Delo. And ma'am, please forgive me for mispronouncing your name. How are you doing? Hi, Mr. D. Can you please raise your right hand and take your name and address? Yep. I'm ready for you. Yep. It's Terry Delo, 405 32nd Avenue South, Jacksonville Beach. Do you swear and affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God.

Yes, I do. First of all, let me thank you for your uh for your service. I served on this board for 23 years as Margot, Dave, etc. No. Um, this this uh this applicant kind of surprised me because I thought it was it was this was this was a done deal. I didn't know that this process had come about to tonight actually. But um I'm excited to see them moving forward with the project that they're talking about. Um that is that uh they've always proved to be have familyfriendly events. the uh that used to be, as you know, homeless alley, Shedder Avenue. Um what they've done is introduced more activity, which is good for all the businesses. Um so that you have more eyes on the street, more people. And again, that there's tons of overflow parking there, tons of it. I was just by there today looking at the uh at the auto store next door, the other uh ABC liquors and things like that. They've been there for five years. Five years. They've never had a complaint. They promised five years ago because I was part of the process that they would um that they would be family friendly, that they would have events there that would be familyfriendly, that they would have they would contribute to the city of Jacksonville Beach. They have met that obligation. They have met it. I think just like um actually what Grouper Shack is getting ready to do down there. They had that little outdoor area which the barbecue before used all the time. Beardy pimp, they're doing the same thing. It's just a small outdoor area that will allow dogs and kids to be outside and sit outside and play and stuff like that. And I think it's it's a great addition to a great u property

that we have that we already have right now and a great contribution to the city. Um, that's about it actually. Um, it's just a great addition and it's already in to the point it's already in the LDC. It's already part of the LDC now. So, it'd be great just to see us move forward in this next phase, the growth um uh for for the ink factory. Thanks again.

Thank you. Joseph McCondville is the next speaker I have and um Mr. Rakandell has checked both that he wishes to address us and does not wish to speak and has highlighted does not wish. So I just wanted to clarify is that correct sir? Okay. Um but he did not check the box that says that he supports or opposes. Did you do you want to take the opportunity to tell us which it is? if I can do that. He's smart. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Quickly. Understood. Um, the next speaker card I have is from Aaron Meisenheimer.

That's me. Forgive me if I got it wrong. Um, who also does not wish to speak but supports. Correct. Correct. Thank you. Um, next is from Michael Sasser. Um, who does not wish to speak but supports. Thank you, sir. Next is from John Quimby um who does not wish to speak but supports here. Thank you, sir. Next is from Tracy Crower. Did I Thank you. I got off to a slow start, but maybe I'll catch up. Um U who does not wish to speak, but supports. Correct.

Thank you. Um, next is from Shaina Rogers who does not wish to speak but supports. Sorry. Thank you, ma'am. Um, and finally, we have a card from Francesca Vanderloose. Yep. That's good. You got it right. Um, who does not wish to speak but supports? Yes. Thank you everyone. That's it. Mr. Chair, did I miss anyone? Did you put in a card, sir? No, I didn't realize I needed to until I saw the We're getting there. Is there anyone in the audience who has not filled out a speaker card that wishes to speak?

If so, please come forward, but we ask that you fill out a speaker card before you leave. But I have to speak issues. Can I just add that? You want to swear me in or please raise your right hand and say your name and address? Uh Bobby Welton, uh 10:32 First Street South Jackson Beach. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. Yes.

Thank you. Okay. Could you put the picture, the diagram from a aerial view of the size of the that area? What is the depth from the building to the front of the fence? Give me just a moment real quick. Pardon? Give me just a moment to look it up. I can't read that from here. I can't either. On the drawing, it looked like it was 12 feet, but correct, it's 12 feet. Not 100% sure. Well, show the fence in area from horizontal looking in front of the building. 12 by 32.

12 by 32. Well, that looks a lot deeper than 12 feet. if it's 32 feet wide. That doesn't look right. And then there's only one, two, three parking spaces in front, not six. And then two are taken by bicycle racks. And I think the other one is a handicap. So, how can there be six parking spaces there? And then it looks like it's got a curb. Well, it's not a curb because it's not on the street.

We could probably get the um business owner up to speak on that. My guess just by looking at that drawing and guess Christian, you probably help out. It look doesn't look to be to scale on that drawing. It looks like just a rendering of what it possibly could look like, not necessarily what it actually is. This is probably look like anything like it's going to book. No, this is probably more the accurate drawing for approval, not the photo. That's correct. We don't go off to the measurements on the site plan. The rendering is just for visual purposes.

Okay. So the photo of the fence area level with the entryway is not really applicable. I mean you have to say that because it doesn't look like it's supposed to look. I'm just because when I looked at it, it doesn't look like the patio is now that it's 12t by 30 ft. The drawing looks to be correct. The picture doesn't. I think it's distortion and I think that needs to be cleared up a little. That was my only point.

We we could ask the applicant if they'd like to come up back up and speak on that. Yep, he's absolutely correct. And when I submitted that, it was just for a visual rendering. Um, it was actually AI, so you can hate on AI for that, but it was just for a overall aesthetic look. And I did present that when I submitted it, but it probably wasn't that clear because it it gets the wow factor. When you see it, you're like, "Wow, looks great." But yeah, the actual scale um is the 12 by 32 feet. Uh, so there's the exact measurements.

Okay, thank you. No problem. Mr. Chairman, I've just been given another card from Nigel Green. Mr. Green, um, who support that does not wish to speak, but is indicating support. Correct, sir. Thank you, sir. Okay. Anybody else that needs to speak that hasn't filled out a card? Going once, going twice. Cool. Um, I will now close the public hearing and bring the item back to the board for discussion. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Second.

Is there any further discussion?

I have a question. So, on the parking spaces, it looks like we're just getting rid of three standard parking spots and going to six golf cart spots. Uh, yes. There's also some additional bike racks that we didn't account for because it is in excess of what they require, but they'll have additional bicycle parking as well. Six golf cart spaces. Okay. So, in theory, theoretically, we have more parking now than we did before. Correct.

Mr. Chair, I have a question. um the 34553 standards applicable to all conditional use uh approvals which is why we're here and it's really the only power that this this particular group has is the conditional use um standards number uh or number letter F uh adequate public facilities that would be parking in one place and then G is the next one adequate ingress and egress to the proposed conditional use. And I think that's what little discussion we had last tonight was about those issues. And we could add those as conditional uses to see that we didn't have any problem with those, which I don't think you're going to, but I don't know. If people were worried about it, it'd be easy enough to have us put it in a condition about uh no demonstrated adverse effect and that there's adequate public facilities. If there's no issues, just goes away. So, I'm not promoting that, but it's there if if there's anybody else that has has anything to say about that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My my in relation to that, my only thought on that would be we're not really taking away any parking. We're not changing this layout of the parking lot really at all because we're taking parking spots essentially cut them in half, making them for golf carts. And then so the parking as it stands is stays. We're at absolute worst case, you're just getting rid of three spots. And so your ingress and egress is the same. You're actually adding spots.

I hear that argument, but you're only adding spots if you're not driving a if you're not driving a truck. Correct. But I would assume they already have golf carts parking in there as is taking up spots. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm not do it. I just wanted to bring that up that it's an option if we need it. over.

David dome. Yes. Marggo Murray. Yes. Dean Haddock. Yep. Yes. Matthew Ber. Yes. Justin Henderson. Yes. You've been approved. Thank you all. [Applause]

May we have the presentation on PC 1625? You may indeed. This is planning commission application PC1625. It is a condition initial use application. It is for the uh multif family use in the C1 zoning district to allow for the renovation of existing multif family dwellings pursuant to section 34617D14 which utilizes the RM2 standards for multif family. The subject property is located in the C1 zoning commercial district. The subject property has two portions of an original platted lot of record. Find it better. There we go.

This is me, right, Christian? No. No. Okay. You're one of several honestly the same.

Yeah. You're towards the end. I'm sorry. Um the property is located at 214 and 218 7th Avenue South. Um, currently there are uh two structures. The primary structure being a uh historic two family dwelling and then the secondary structure is a former garage that was converted into a dwelling um many many years ago. Uh we had to go back through historic maps to even figure out if it was a garage or not. Um so currently it's a non-conforming use because the property was split into two pieces. um thus rendering it a single family use which you can see here. This is the former garage that is basically this blank space on this survey and then this is the forward piece here that has the two family dwelling. They've since been combined under one ownership. Um the uh under the previous LDC there were no provisions for existing single family dwellings uh located in the commercial district. Um, we have since put in some exemptions for historically built single family, but unfortunately, as I said, this was originally a garage, so it didn't receive any of those protections. So, the goal here uh was to combine the two properties and then get conditional approval for multif family. Obviously, the two-unit dwelling to the north is existing multif family, but predates the code, therefore never had any conditional approval. And then combining the two allows that third unit uh which um is in existence but in desperate need of repair to be renovated. Um as I said the current owner of the northern portion of the lot um acquired the southern portion which was the former garage and now wishes to add it to his property to bring the structure up to code and turn it into a legal dwelling unit. The northern northern structure has existed as a historic duplex um with existing nonconformities of its own related to setbacks and

parking as noted uh earlier. The um there's companion variant scheduled for hearing with the board of adjustment um that would address parking issues and setbacks as well. Overall, the housing stock is both consistent with the intent um I'm sorry. Overall, the uh preservation of the neighborhood character and the continued reuse of the existing housing stock is both consistent with the intent and strategies of the 2050 comprehensive plan uh which prioritizes the preservation of neighborhoods through a number of different approaches. The overreaching goal is the continued use of existing residential structures which were built at a consistent scale and massing as the rest of the surrounding neighborhood rather than encourage the tear down and rebuild of housing with larger um less compatible structures. Surrounding uses include to the west a single family home which is under the same ownership as these properties to the east a multif family uh property with a similar uh multi-building design. To the south across the alley, several multif family properties of a similar age uh comprising several independent structures similar to the subject property. Uh and to the north, several town home structures and a small commercial center along Third Street South. There go kind of make that out. So no, not that one. Third would be over here and then uh current property additional property owned by the applicant and then like I said similar structures with multiple buildings in the multif family design. Uh the proposed conditional use will not change the existing character of the property but will rather maintain uh the same level intens of intensity as well as providing for improvements and upgrades to the existing structures as well as adding additional parking um to the rear for the existing non-conforming

third dwelling unit. Based on the application and the information as well as the reasons outlined in the staff memo, staff finds the request for the crit for the request meets the criteria found in uh section 34553. Therefore, the planning and development department recommends approval of PC1625 for the addition of a third multif family unit to an existing two family or two-unit multif family property um through the combination of the two portions of the former lot of record located in the C1 zoning commercial district. As a reminder, each member of the public will be given three minutes to speak when we open the public hearing. Does any commission member have any exparte communication to disclose? Hearing none, would the applicant please come forward to be sworn in and give any presentation?

Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Uh, Matthew McCordon, 11455 Saints Road, Jacksonville. Do you swear, referring that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Good evening. Um, thank you for that, Christian. And ultimately, there's not a whole lot to add to that. It was it's pretty straight straightforward on the scope. Ultimately, uh, we are the contract representing Dr. hero and the although we went back and we've man we've been going over this for months on this one really doing the diligence on it and although it was represented as a garage that was all the way back into the 40s and 50s is what we can tell uh when Dr. Rogue purchased this. It was a Army veteran who owned it as a single family home. He'd been in it for many years, 20 some odd years. And um the only ultimately what we're doing is renovating it and bringing it up to a standard of living so that it can not only you know not be an eyesore to the rest of the neighbors around there, but also be a um affordable good living uh unit for somebody in the area. Thank you. Yes, sir. Uh, do any commission members have any questions for the applicant. Hearing none, I will now open the hearing to the public.

Do we have any speaker cards? We do not, sir. Is there anyone in the audience who has not filled out speaker card that wishes to speak? I will now close the public hearing and bring the item back to the board for discussion. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Second. Is there any further discussion?

May I have a roll call? Marggo Morin. Yes. David Doll. Yes. Dean Haddock. Yes. Matthew Filer. Yes. Justin Henderson. Yes. And you've been approved.

May we hear PC 1725, please? through the chair. This is application PC1725, which is a conditional use application to allow for a package liquor store, uh, which is a technical term, uh, for the sale of package beer and wine only, located in the commercial limited C1 zoning district pursuit of section 34617D4 of the Jacksonville Beach Land Development Code. The subject property is located in the C1 uh, commercial zoning district. The property is a fully developed commercial center uh with a range of uses uh and separate tenant spaces. The the property was developed in 1983 and has an established park has established parking on both the front and sides of the two structures and has mature landscaping that's already in place. The property is located on the east side of Penman Road on the northeast side of the intersection of Penman Road and 13th Avenue North. The proposed commercial uh the proposed use is a commercial retail use which is uh consists of package sale of beer and wine only for off off premise consumption in conjunction with a vape and smoke shop. The proposed use will include some retail sale of other items but will focus predominantly on beer, wine, vape and smoking related products. The proposed use will occupy a tenant space within the large commercial center which is home to a diverse group of uses including office, medical, personal service, fitness, and other types of limited lowintensity commercial uses. The section of Penman Road is the is a small cluster of commercial uses that encompass uh many of the uses permitted along uh I'm sorry, many uses permitted and conditional within the C1 zoning district, including various restaurants,

gas stations, um convenience stores, dance studios, offices, um and large city owned utility structures. Uh the subject site is bordered to the east, which is the rear of the property by existing single family residential. to the north uh by another commercial center, to the south across 13th Avenue um a third commercial center, and to the west across Penman Road, a large city utility station. The proposed use is consistent with the intents and strategies of the 2050 comprehensive plan which encourages the continued use of commercial areas uh and directs commercial uses to occupy, continue to use and maintain an existing commercial structures rather than build new or reszone additional commercial properties within the city. The use is similar to other uses located within the C1 zoning district and along Penman Road in the immediate vicinity. Uh based on the application and the included information as well as the reasons outlined in the staff memo, staff finds the request meets the criteria of 34553 and therefore the planning and development department recommends approval of PC 1725 for package beer and wine sales in the C1 zoning district. uh just to orient you guys a little bit. Uh so obviously this is the property in question. Um again this is a an additional commercial uh center here as well as here. Obviously the city substations right there. Um and then you have the residential uses to the rear. Um this is just sort of again to orient you with the zoning. Uh this stretch of Pimp Road is a little uh commercial center within the neighborhood. So all of this is C1 in the surrounding area and then obviously backs up to residential on all sides. Uh this is the property basically looking um east along Penman Road and you can see the adjoining commercial uses commercial center to the north. Um this is sort of a second look from that commercial center looking into the uh

shopping center. So you can see it's a a number of smaller tenant spaces. Um so uh existing parking, existing design, existing building. So there's really no change in the actual um property other than a change in use. Commercial uh shopping centers, all of their parking standards are based on a generic per square foot for the total building. So um it anticipates all of the potential uses in C1. So um in that regard, it's really just a question of uh approving the use. And as I said, there are other similar commercial uses within the immediate area. There's a gas station and obviously several restaurants and things like that. So, uh, I'm happy to answer any questions. I believe we've got a number of speakers to get through as well.

Um, Christian, I have a question. Yeah. With liquor stores and just curiosity, um, is there a requirement to be certain distance away from a school? Um so for uh it depends on the type of liquor and how it's sold but generally the answer is yes. Um but the code requires them to be state license recognized educational institutions. So daycarees and things like that can qualify under certain circumstances but um I know the question of dance school has come up before but that is not technically considered a school under the state law or which one the dance school that's just to the north of there. There's a school right across the other side of the street. There's a monatory school.

Um, so give me just a moment. I'll pull up that section of the code for you.

It's right next door to strings, I believe. Okay. So, basically, if it's consumption on premise, it's required to be 500 ft from the school. If it's package sales, there's no distance separation requirement. Okay. Just curious. In reading through the correspondence, it was brought up that there uh in the adjacent parking lot next to Penman Diner, there's another similar business there. Is that correct? I believe so. Yeah.

Okay. Thanks. All right. As a reminder, each member of the public will be given three minutes to speak when we open the public hearing. Does any commission member have any exparte communication to disclose? Hearing none, would the applicant please come forward to be sworn in and give any presentation? I'm going to have you uh touch the red button on the microphone. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Zach Miller, 3203 Oldb Court. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? I do, ma'am. Thank you.

Good evening, everybody. As I mentioned, I'm the attorney for the applicant. Um, just to clarify and so I can put on the record again that that distance limitation only applies to on premises consumption. Um, the Jackson Beach Land Development Code is a little bit interesting compared to other local land development codes. If it comes to alcohol, uh, conditional uses for alcohol, it just says alcoholic uses. It just says package stores. It doesn't differentiate between beer, wine, and liquor, which most land development codes do. Uh so just to clarify, in this case, we're not looking for a full package store and liquor. It's just beer and wine for off- premises consumption, not on premises consumption. As was mentioned earlier by Commissioner D. Um the primary reason we're here tonight is 34-553. Um, you heard your staff uh give a staff report that constitutes as a matter of law competent, substantial evidence as the criteria in 34-553. But uh here's some some other points. The subsection A deals with is it consistent with the comprehensive plan. Conditional uses are different from resonings is that anything that's listed as a conditional use unless there's a specific element of the comprehensive plan. It is presumed to be consistent because it is a conditional use within that zoning code within that subsection. So commercial limited C1. It's also in the commercial limited land use. But um as Christian mentioned, you have comprehensive plan policies that try to direct new commercial uses or changing commercial uses to existing areas designated. So you're not going to green space, you're not building new buildings, you're not converting residential those strategies flume uh 1.33 and 1.214. Uh next criteria is the conditional use compatible with the existing permission permissible uses in the vicinity. Uh there are, as you heard from Christian, there's numerous commercial use in this area. Uh while the area does not have an abundance of alcohol, uh there is the

Circle K, which when I was growing up as a kangaroo, it's approximately 840 ft from this location to the north. It has beer and wine. And then there's a beer and wine store uh about 450 ft south in a different shopping center. Best I can tell that's been there since about 2018. So there's while there's not a large number of similar uses for the sale of beer and wine, um that has not been a detriment to the area or the the existing businesses. I asked my client, I actually asked their landlord if there's been any detrimental effects in this area from either the beer and wine uses. They have not heard any. I also poured the the reported crime statistics going back 10 years in this area or 10 years as of January. Um and there was no outside the either the uh the Circle K or the the beer and wine shop. So I as background before I did this I was actually a prosecutor probably prosecuted about 250 DUIs. I don't think I ever had a DUI that came from a just a package store selling only beer and wine usually restaurants or bars. Um uh the design of the proposed use minimizes adverse effects including visible uh impact. Um the existing building is not changing. It's buffered from the residence to the east by actually platted looks like gravel driveway. It's about 20 ft wide and then a fence. So, there's a pretty significant uh barrier between us and the residential to the uh the east. Uh to the west, if you've driven by this area, you know there's a very large beaches energy substation and a very large stuckco wall. So, on both sides of us, we're buffered from any of the residential areas. And then the north and south is just other commercial uses. Um the proposed conditional use will not have an adverse effect on the permitted uses of the zoning district. Little interesting. I think it's very similar to criteria B. Um, but stated again, there's two beer and wine sale establishments in the area. I don't think it's overwhelmed the area. Um, traffic does become a factor of this criteria. I went ahead and pulled the

eth edition of the IET trip generation manual. This, uh, facility is two units. It's actually on the the area kind of sticks out closest to Penman. It's about 1500, 1800 square feet. Um, the total PM peak hour trip generation for this will be six trips. Uh so it's a very low intense use. Um uh the uh there are adequate public facilities and services. Um obviously it's a building with water and sewer as the parking. We have to meet the parking code. Uh it's in a shopping center. You do have reduced parking demands. I think Christian could probably tell you I think it's one space for every 250 square feet. Obviously we have to meet that. Um last two criteria that I think are applicable or is there's adequate ingress and egress from the from the property. There's currently three curve cuts. That's not going to be changing. And then there's the proposed conditional use is consistent with the requirements of land development code. It's a little bit circular, but what that means is there are specific provisions somewhere else in the code that this conflicts and it doesn't. That's why it's listed as commercial use. That's why there's other two similar uses in the area. There's also no specific provision in the comprehensive plan that um would prohibit this conditional use. And we covered a lot of ground. I'm happy to answer any questions the commissioners might have.

Does commission members have any questions for the applicant?

Thank you. Thank you. Hearing none, I will now open the public hearing. Do we have any speaker cards? We do. Mr. Chairman, um the first is Jamie Clark and Miss Clark has given us um some materials to distribute. Is Is that correct? I have. Yes, that is correct. Sorry, Miss Clark. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Uh my name is Jamie Clark, 1401 Penman Road, Sweets E and F. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you God. Sorry, I do.

That's okay. Am I allowed to ask a question before I start speaking? Sorry, am I screaming? Sure. Um, how is there a limited number of uh beer and wine permits that are given per capita? I believe I read 10,000, one per every 10,000 residents. Is that correct?

Uh, it's a bit of a more complicated question. So, there are multiple different types of licenses and they're all regulated differently. Uh, package sale beer and wine, I don't know the proportion, but it's uh fairly liberal. We don't have a specific limit in the city. It's countywide. a nail salon, a nail salon, two hair salons, um Colin's business, Absent Answer, um is all women who work for him. Um we also are a um uh association. So outside of Signature Realy renting out this space, the rest of us own and operate. So all of us are individual owners. Um and we operate our businesses out of our location. This would be the only business um that isn't operated by somebody who is currently an owner. Um, he is renting to the puff and poor. Um, so I read through the application. I read through the uh staff report and I have kind of some specific things like about the

application um that I wanted to go over. So, in the intended use statement by Brian Cantrell, um he talks about them um intending to create a clean, well-managed retail experience with tasteful branding and operations that minimize disruption and align with commercial character of the area. So, I've included three photos of the puff and pork currently. Um, I don't think the branding um is tasteful currently. Um, the signs are a little bit shocking. They're yellow um and red. There is a banner which looks like it should be outside um in the window here. Um in the first photo um that is their branding.

I'm going to give you one more minute because we had the question to start, but after that one we're gonna have to wrap it up.

Okay. So, the parking um as you can see from this aerial photo, there's already um pretty dense parking. Um the Pemman Square uh is almost completely full. Their parking infringes on our parking. Um that is the um commercial location of the first um other package beer and liquor store that is in this very small fourb block area. Um our parking, as you can see, is also pretty full. Um the community next to us is pretty full. We really can't have any more people parking. Um our parking is already taxed. It's going to spill over to everybody else, which it already is. Um we may have a sufficient amount of spaces for what the use is theoretically, but we don't actually have that much parking. Um and I think it's going to bring our property values down. Um, unfortunately, there is an amount of crime that typically comes with these uses. Um, and because we are predominantly um, female-based businesses, I think we're going to encounter some issues. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you.

We have a card from Eric Mott who wishes to address us, I believe. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Eric Mott, 1135 Beach Boulevard, Jacksonville Beach, Florida. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. I do. Thank you.

Uh, hi. I am Eric Mott. I'm the owner of Shining Stars ABA. I'm the only autism clinic in Jacksonville Beach. I'm also a retired Jacksonville Sheriff's Office lieutenant. And uh I have a really big issue with this uh with this kind of business going in this area where these other businesses operate. Uh there's a business which is 99% female um athletic. It's a pole dance studio. And I think we can all agree that we all we all understand the type of patrons that is going to visit a smoke and shop or whatever degenerate smoke shop opens up. We all they're on every corner. We don't need any more of them. Uh, this is going to be our recipe for disaster having the patrons of this smoke shop and a bunch of pole dance women interacting. And if you guess for this, that disaster is going to be on you. That is going to be your responsibility. That is going to be something you're going to have to carry around. You are endangering people by putting the type of patrons that are are going to visit this store in in intermixed with the type of patrons that are already in this this unit. It's a bad idea. I will support if anyone votes yes on this, I will support whoever whoever runs against you. So, thanks.

Thank you. We have a card from Laurian Anderson who wishes to address us.

Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Laurian Anderson, 1401 Penman Road, Sweet E and F, Jacksonville Beach. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God? I do.

Thank you. Okay. Um, so I am the co-owner of Alt Ffit Jacks. We are dance studio in the condo condominium in question and we um I strongly strongly oppose a liquor store and smoke shop puff and pour I think is what they call it moving into our location. I have several reasons but my primary concern is safety. The presence of this shop will make our complex ma be and appear less safe and desirable. So that is going to have an immediate impact not only on our property values, but as a business owner, if I have women who see us in a in a complex that doesn't seem safe, they're not going to want to come to a class at 7 or 8 o'clock in the evening. We have several classes in the evening hours and on the weekends. And I would say if I'm someone who's looking to do fitness, I'm going to go somewhere where I feel safe as a woman walking back to my car. We already have some issues with some uh vacancy in the back of our complex that we are dealing with. Uh we're afraid that this is going to have a very negative effect. We have two benches outside of our studio where people can sit. They are the only benches in the community. I don't want to have to come out and be the one, you know, at 5 foot2 being like, "Hey, you can't sit here and smoke whatever vape thing you just got from that store." It's uncomfortable. Um, the people who are renting this space have not come and talked to anybody. We are a small HOA. We are a condo complex and we work as a community. We work together to support each other. We have three different businesses represented right here. We we are all working together and these people haven't talked to us. They haven't come and asked what we think about it. They installed spotlights and cameras to the exterior of our condo complex with zero input from the board,

zero permission from the board. And anything that we do to the outside of the complex needs to be approved. So I feel like they are going to work apart from us, not with us as business owners. And just I my concern is that when we have issues with safety that they're not going to take it seriously and they're not going to respond. So again, as Jamie said, most of the people in this complex are women. I'm often in the studio until 9:30 at night. I never feel unsafe walking into the parking lot right now. My concern is that myself, my business partner, and other people, we are going to feel unsafe. and not just feel it, but we are going to be unsafe. So, I would ask you to please not approve this conditional use. Thank you.

Thank you.

Heather Miller, would you address us? Mrs. Miller, please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Heather Miller, 2259 Second Street South. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. Yes, I do. Thank you.

Good evening, guys. Um, I am a property owner, business owner, and also a member of the HOA for our business community. And I'm here tonight to respectfully oppose the proposed business seeking to open in our neighborhood strip center. This type of business does not align with the existing character or intent of the shopping center. Our our plaza serves a predominantly female and family oriented clientele. People come for wellness, beauty, child care, and professional services in a calm and safe environment. Introducing a smoke shop that sells alcohol would completely change that dynamic. It would bring increased loitering, late night activity, and heavy traffic, creating parking congestion that would make it harder for existing customers to access current businesses. Beyond that, the presence of an alcohol and vape retailer in a family centered plaza would likely decrease surrounding property values and make it more difficult to attract and retain quality tenants in the future. This impact not only this impacts not only the businesses but the entire community's economic stability. As a property owner who works in the plaza Monday through Friday, I'm deeply concerned how this will affect both safety and the integrity of our neighborhood. The women and families who support these businesses do so because they feel comfortable and protected here. That trust is vital to our success. We're not opposed to responsible growth, but this proposal was not pre presented transparently and does not fit the community's needs or zoning intent. For those reasons, I respectfully ask the commission to deny this permit to help preserve the safety, comfort, property values, and family famil. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you. You're welcome. We have a card from Colin me who wishes to address us. Thank you, sir. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Uh, my address is 1301 Penman Road, Sweet D, Jacksonville, Beach, Florida. Your name? My name is Colin Meade. Okay. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you God. I do. Thank you.

Uh thank you very much for uh giving me the time to talk about this. Um I run a business called Absent Answer. We're a small call center, been in business about 40 years. We've been located at 1301 Penman for about since 2008. Uh by the way, we're currently your answering service. Um, I currently have uh a total of 13 employees who work for eight of them work remotely, five of them actually work in the office at 1301 Penman. They're all women. Uh, one of them has been with me 20 years. I depend on her tremendously. She is very concerned that walking out of the office to the back at 9 or 10 o'clock at night, which this tenant is intending to be open 9 to 10 and is 12:00 has been mentioned. So, it's going to attract a lot of a lot of uh traffic at at those hours of night that we're not looking for. She's worried and she's worried about her her u her agents. I'm worried about the agents. Additionally, if you look at the uh pictures that of the that we took and showed this is puff and pour, those are adjectives, which means that in my opinion, they're going to do be puffing and p and pouring on the premises. I may be wrong, but they're adjectives. Additionally, if you look in the picture, you'll see where it says smoke, that's a v that's a banner that's meant to be shoved in the dirt and be outside. So, that's going to create more noise around the around the parking lot. The parking lot is very difficult. We already have a parking problem. We already have people coming from the the southside coming and parking in our parking lot so they can go to they can go to the diner next door or one one of the businesses next door. If we have even five or six more cars, it's going to be a problem. We're going to have people turning away customers. We're

gonna I mean the I don't have a lot of commercial traffic, but the others but my other com uh fellow property owners know do. Uh finally, I just it just it's going to change the appearance of the of the of the complex. They're already putting in cameras. They're already putting in extra lights. So, that's the concern. I'm asking that you I strongly oppose this and agree with my colleagues 100% and ask that you vote this down. Thank you very much. Thank you.

We have a card from Teresa. Teresa, is it is it I I'm sorry. I'm just welcome, ma'am. Sorry about that. Thank you. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. My property is in 1619 Second Avenue in North Jacksonville Beach 32250. And your name? Teresa Padra. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? I do. Thank you.

All right. So, I've been arrested and of the beaches for about 25 years, and I've seen a lot of growth and change as you probably have seen as well. But I'm here concerned and I'm here as basically three entities. First I come as a student of al uh outfit fit jacks. Um I've been a student for a number of years and if you see only one class you will see that these are athletes. We need nothing but fresh air near us um and safety. These are uh numerous people that have been um victims of um a rough life and they are already are traumatized as it is and they come to Alfie Jacks for a place to feel safe. So, anything that is not family oriented and anything that is not that favors clear air is not good for our the students. Second, my second entity, I'm a healthcare provider. I work in the only transplant center in Jacksonville Beach at Jacksonville actually Mayo Clinic. I work in L transplant for three years and I've seen the devastating effects of vaping. In fact, there's already um one case of lung transplant uh needed to be done to a teenager due to vaping. And I cannot tell you I think everybody knows the damaging effects of alcohol and tobacco or beer in general. I think um those go without saying. So in general for health issues, I wish

there would be another alternative to fill that space. And finally, I think most importantly, I come as a mother, as a concerned mother of a teenager. He doesn't want to be in the spotlight, but he's he's the only teenager here. And as a mother, and I'm sure you are parents, I'm deeply deeply concerned. not only because of this business, but the numerous businesses that are related to vaping and beer and wine that are very popular now in J especially in Jackson Beach around the beaches, but especially in Jackson Beach. So I urge you not only to oppose this but to look for different alternatives for our youth to keep them engaged healthy and to avoid having these types of places that are very damaging in many ways. Thank you.

We have a card from Charmin Turner who wishes to address us. Thank you. Please raise your right hand and state your name and address. Charan Turner, 12517 Beach Boulevard, Jacksonville. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. I am a patron of Alfet Jacksonville. Uh I no longer live in Jacksonville Beach. I was uh the neighbor of the crazy fence lady for a number of years and I am very familiar with Jacksonville Beach. U but I am a sexual assault survivor. I was assaulted here in Jacksonville Beach and the police didn't help me which is a common story for many sexual assault survivors. And when the the police, a therapist, and the eurog gynecologist down the road told me that I wasn't worth fixing because it was just a matter of time until I was raped again, especially in this community. The ladies at Alt Fit assured me that that was a lie. And when I wanted to lay down and die, they taught me to hold on and climb. So when this business showed up not respecting the HOA and uh the reputation that falls vape follows vape shops and smoke shops which are saturated in our community triggered them into caring for all of our safety. I became concerned about the friends that I had created within this community. There's a large number of sexual assault survivors who came there as a way to overcome the shame of being beautiful for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. and we trust them to keep us safe. And if they don't feel safe, I'm not sure how the rest of us will either. We may have the wrong perception because it is a pole dancing gym. But there's a lot of married women there trying to spice up their life and a lot of people just looking for community and safety amongst women who understand them and care about their mental and physical health. None of us think that this smoke shop, Puff and Pour, is a good idea. Maybe it will be a fun location where you can go sit around and drink and smoke, but it's probably not the visual that we're looking for for Jack's Beach next to this particular um exercise facility. And I certainly

hope you will think about the the visual representation of what everybody driving down Penman will see and think of this little shopping center with minimal parking where the businesses to the left of us will call the police if anybody parks there and has their vehicle towed. It is already very difficult with the hair salons, nail salons, the the answering service, and a dance studio which runs different classes every hour throughout the day to find parking there. And you're going to make it even more difficult, not just for the people who are already doing business there and paying taxes there, but it it will be very difficult and and not the visual representation I think you're really looking for for Jacksonville Beach. Thank you. Thank you.

I believe the rest of of the cards that I have um are from folks who do not wish to speak, but I'll read out your names and please let me know if I've got that right. Um Allison Marquesy. Wow. Did I get it right? Um didn't wish to speak um but opposes. Is that correct? Thank you, ma'am. Tasier, thank you so much.

Um, again does not wish to speak but opposes the item. Correct. Thank you very much. Salvador Pedro um does not wish to speak but is is in opposition. Correct. Thank you. Stephen Huea. Oh, I'm so sorry. [Laughter] Oh, dear. Um, but but you're here and you do not wish to speak and you are in opposition, correct?

Thank you, sir. Um, Shandra of the same last name. Thank you, ma'am. And Samantha Manion. Uh, do not wish to speak in opposed. Thank you very much. And my apologies everyone. I'm just not very good at pronunciation. Mr. Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience who has not filled out a speaker card that wishes to speak? If so, please fill out a speaker card before you leave.

Hearing no one, I will now close the public hearing and bring the item back to the board for discussion. Is there a motion? I have a question for the plan department. Um Christian, we we've heard um much about um the the smoke and vape aspect. Is that do we have any control as the city of Jacksonville Beach over that aspect?

Uh I mean it's so much that it's a retail use so it's allowed as a permitted use in C1. So, as an example, if you chose to deny this application, they could still open a smoke shop without any other approvals. The beer and wine is the only thing that's being regulated by this approval. Appreciate that clarification.

I can make one more quick clarification. Um, this is a two um PCS license. So, they cannot serve and uh consume alcohol on premise. It's strictly for package sales outside. Christian, did I hear you correctly? Did you say that the they would be able to open a smoke shop? They were just not serving alcohol.

Correct. Yeah. So, a smoke shop is just considered a retail sale and like any retail sale, it can go into a commercial establishment as a permitted use. Um, the alcohol sales are regulated through the conditional use process. So, should that application be denied, it could still be a smoke shop without any other approvals from the uh commission or even the planning department. It's just an allowed use and that um goes beyond the authority of the land development code. Is that correct?

Well, it's regulated by the land development code, but it's permitted, which means it's a use that's allowed to be there without any additional approvals. they would have to go through the, you know, local business tax process and those kind of things. But they can, if they do all the proper things through the state and licensing, they can open a retail establishment, whether they're selling toys or uh smoke, it doesn't matter to the zoning code. There are obviously state licenses associated with the sale of tobacco, but those are um regulated through the state. We don't get involved in that side of it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's something I'd like to share um with my fellow commissioners. Um, I live on Could you speak into the microphone? We cannot hear. Sorry.

Amy, if you don't speak into the microphone, excuse us. Excuse us.

Um, I I did want to let everyone know that I live on Carl Way, so I am quite quite local. Um, and I just anecdotally wanted to share that, um, I purchased my house in 1999, um, because I could afford it and I and it was a great house. Um, but the other reason that I purchased it was because of the proximity, the walking distance proximity from my house um, to this kind of mixed juice area. And especially back in 1999, that was a little bit difficult to find in Jacksonville Beach, someplace where you could walk to the store. And over time, the mix of uses has changed. Um, Tererry's Country Store was there. I miss it every day. Um, but I I just wanted to kind of share that number one, I'm I have a sort of very local interest and I wanted everyone to be aware of that. Um but also I I do um personally feel that the there is an importance to these mixed use centers that are accessible within our neighborhoods. Um and just personally this this one is very um important to me. So thank you.

Do you uh mean to say that you oppose the over to the chair. We don't actually have a motion on the floor. So, yeah. Is there a motion? Apologies. I was trying to understand the sentiment. I motion to motion to go ahead. Deny second.

Is there any further discussion? I think it's just worth uh noting the um brave folks who came and shared their vulnerability tonight and I understand that probably took a lot of courage. Um so thank you for for sharing

uh through the chair if there is going to be a motion for denial. I would uh appreciate if you could tie that to some criteria, please. Yeah, when I was reading through it, section 34-553 D, the proposed conditional use will not have an adverse effect on the permitted uses of the zoning district where is located of Alol zoning district is this fitness facility nearby. Would we say approving the beer and wine sales at this location is affecting the fitness facility? Is that the rationale to deny it?

That makes sense to me. I think also in alignment with our comprehensive plan and on the notion of safety is uh very hard to ignore in this particular circumstance. Okay. Okay. So, if I'm hearing that, we're looking for a motion to deny based off of negative effects on permanent on permanent uses within the zoning districts where it's located. Am I phrasing that right, Christian? That's correct. That relates to the criteria. Exactly.

Okay. Is there any other discussion? May I have a roll call on the motion? David Doll. Yes. Marggo Moring. No. Dean Haddock. To confirm. Uh, yes. Is on the motion to deny. Vote. Yes. Matthew Fer. Yes. Justin Henderson.

Yes. [Music] So motion is denied. Okay. Next order of business. May we please hear PC1 1825 through the chair. This is application PC1825. It is a conditional use application to allow multif family in the C1 zoning district specifically for the construction of a three-unit town home project pursuant to section 34617 D14 using the RM1 standards. The subject property is located in the commercial limited C1 zoning district. Um, the property is situated on the southwest corner of the intersection of Second Street South and 11th Avenue South. The property is currently occupied by a 4-unit multif family structure that was built in 1946. The current structure is of an older design and currently does not meet many of the required design standards in the land development code, nor does it likely meet most of the requirements in the Florida building code. Additionally, the building was constructed prior to the adoption of the current FEMA firm maps. the structure is below base flood elevation. Um, all these reasons combined have led to uh a request to demolish the existing structure and build three fe simple town homes in its

place. The subject property is located within um the first block east of Third Street. Uh and the entire block is within the C1 zoning district. The adjacent blocks uh further beyond second street are in the RM2 zoning district. Uh the general area is a mix of commercial and residential uses both within the surrounding blocks and specifically within this block. With the conversion of this property into three town homes, the number of dwelling units will be reduced from four to three and this will reconfigure the site in compliance with all the current land development code regulations. Additionally, with all new construction, the design will require the buildings to be elevated above the base elevation, which will include an additional foot of free board per our code. Finally, the new structures will be built to the current uh building code standards, which will help ensure that the structures uh are out of the flood plane and can better withstand modern storms and flooding. The surrounding uses are as follows. To the south and adjacent across the existing alley is multif family condos. To the east across Second Street South, uh two town home units. to the west and adjoining a commercial restaurant use and to the north across 11th Avenue South are commercial office condo structures. The proposed use is not in conflict with any of the existing uses in the area and will be consistent with the other uses in the same block as well as the surrounding blocks. Generally, multif family and town homes uses are a good transition from fully commercial uses to single family residential. Based on the application and the included information as well as the reasons outlined in the staff memo, staff finds that the request meets the criteria of section 34553. Therefore, the planning and development department recommends approval of PC1 1825 for a 3-unit town home project located in the C1 zoning district. As I had mentioned uh and probably

familiar to most of you uh this is uh 11 south our the restaurant in question. You can see that there are many um additional multif family structures and then as I said there's some commercial office above the structure as I noted is from the 1940s. Um obviously it's in uh some need to repair based on its current non-conforming use status because it does not have conditional use approval as multif family repairs have been limited to a minimum percentage of the value of the building. So it has not probably seen the full rehabilitation it needed throughout the years.

I I am but Uh this is a view of the project um as viewed from 11th Avenue South. Um it is like I said four units. It's a very small building. Um and then this again is the view from Second Street South. Um the proposed use is again three uh town home units and these are designed to meet the current land development code standards. So they are significantly wider than they previously would have been. Um, the parking is accessed through the rear from the alleyway. They have twocar driveways and garages, so they meet the minimum parking requirements for the new standard. And one of the requirements in the code um to address the sort of monolithic town home block that people were opposed to in the uh workshops that we had, we now require a either step in or step out of several feet of the front setbacks to create more of a diverse um front end of the building. In this case, because of the intersection with the two streets, stepping back consistently actually created a better visibility on the corner, but they could have come forward as well a couple feet. So, yes, in essence, there'll be uh the requested to remove uh an old quadlex and then replace it with three uh town homes that will front on 11th Avenue South. happy to answer any questions.

Mr. Chair, may I uh may I have the floor for a second? Yes, sir. That that um setback and the requirements that you put in the new code uh that we approved here uh is is a good a very good thing for the community. I wanted to make sure that everybody understood how hard your team worked to get this stuff done. You and uh you and the boss. Thank you. is quite welcome. I think most of you were there for most of the process. So, it's not everybody unfortunately.

Okay. As a reminder, each member of the public will be given three minutes to speak when we open the public hearing. Does any commission member have any exparte communication to disclose? Hearing none, would the applicant please come forward to be sworn in and give any presentation? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? I do.

Mr. Fosinelli, just for the record, can you please state your address? Thank you.

And we want to find a way to improve that property and uh that's what we want to do. And I also we already have the permit to demolish the existing property. So this is what we're planning to build. Uh there which will be a great improvement to Jack speech. Do any commission members have any questions for the applicant? I do, sir. Mr. Chair, um we're showing the setbacks here that we just talked about um on the on the plat up there, but I don't see it in that. That's just a pro.

This is just a rendering. Yeah. depict what the kind of look is going to be. But that you can see the the teared back is what is showing up there where they are set back. Not it's not a straight line. Okay. That's what I I'm seeing a straight line. So I appreciate it. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh I'll now open the public hearing. Do we have any speaker cards? We do, sir. Um, from Bobby Weltor.

Uh, and your name, sir? Donald Chang. Donald Chang. Donald Chang. Okay. Um, Mr. Mr. Chang wishes to address us. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Mr. Chang, please raise um your right hand and state your name and address. Donald Chang, 1117 Second Street South. Do you swear to affirm that the testimony you're about to give on this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, I help you God. I do. Thank you.

So, the property at 11:02, just to reiterate what Christian said is that it's it's an uncared for and dilapidated place. Um, I'm actually surprised it hadn't been condemned before. I think he explained a little bit of that. My question and um request actually concerns not the building itself because I think it's going to be a nice property minimum based on the pictures. My concern is actually about the state of condition. I understand before demolition there needs to be an abatement program typically and I think what you've already done had to do with asbestous and mold. The abatement that I'm thinking of has more to do again with the condition of the the property itself and should have a rodent and insect infestation abatement. And I think that's actually my request is that that be part of the demolition process before they go. That's actually going to happen.

Okay. Thank you. Bobby Welter, please. Thank you, sir. Thank you. I guess I've already sworn in. I'm I'm Mr. Excuse me, sir. Could you please speak into the microphone? Sure, I can definitely speak into the microphone. Mr. I'm going to have you sworn in for this particular item. Again, I understand you've already been sworn in, but it'll be for this one. Whatever. Raise your right hand and state your name and address. Have what? Raise your right hand and state your name and address.

Address is 1032 First Street South. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, thank you, God. Thank you, Mr. Wilton.

You're welcome. Okay. I'm very concerned. I've been here for 18 years. And we have progressively seen the continuation of the structures being built and concrete being poured on every square inch of lots become available. It looks like we're getting to 90% structure, concrete or asphalt in Jacksonville Beach, particularly east of A1A. And it's obviously just choking uh the entire residential area because of the lack of green land, grass, trees, etc. And it looks like what we're going to do here is stress those limits to the maximum possible and there won't be hardly any ground left because you've got parking spaces already on 11 South that are there. And are they going to be removed or in any way affected? Looks like from this picture they are. And that defeating the purpose here. Um, very concerned about that. Um, additionally, all of the activity is going to be for the entrance to the units from the garage. Or is there a front door on 11th Avenue South or all of the activity going to be in the back? Is that what's the deal? Y'all don't know.

I don't know. I'll answer you once once you're finished and they allow me to speak again. Well, if that would have been explained before, I wouldn't be standing here. Anyway, I'm very concerned about that and that is a continuing problem as we continue to concrete Jacksonville Beach. Thank you. Thank you. And Fabio Fazinelli wishes to address us, please. Oh, sorry. Thank you. So to answer the previous gentleman's questions, the parking spaces that are up front, they're in the rightway, which is not part of our property. So we're not impacting those at all.

Right. The entrances to the units are on 11th Avenue South. That's where the front doors are. The rear with the garages, they're coming in, excuse me, they're coming in from the alleyway at the rear of the property. So the concerns that the gentleman explain uh so um eloquently put forth to us are basically unfound because all of those have been addressed with the project and we're planning to do there.

Thank you. And um just a small add regarding rodent or insect. Um since we have been with that property for a number of years, I can attest that on a quarterly basis through Turner pest control, we have been keeping that clean and treated for a decade. So I don't fear that there's any kind of issue there. Thank you.

And also one other thing, the asbestous abatement has been done and completed. Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience who has not filled out a speaker card that wishes to speak? Hearing none, I will now close the public hearing and bring the item back to the board for discussion. Is there a motion?

We have discussion after the motion. Motion to approve. Second. Cool. Christian, I assume there's nothing in the code to for rodent abatement. Um, I'm sure that there is something in the municipal code with relation to uh rodents and building or it's usually under code enforcement. There's nothing in the building code specifically, but new construction has to go through like termite treatment and stuff like that before they pour the put the rest of the structure up and they pour the slab. But that's the only thing I'm aware of.

Okay. [Music] I do think there was a good point that was brought up about um the trees and greenery of that space. I'm not intimately familiar with it, but um I know that we can require some conditional use on um you know beautifification and um you know landscaping and so forth. And so I want to open uh just the question to uh the commission whether that's something that's worth discussing as part of the condition. It seems like there are going to be some trees that are removed in this process and be nice to preserve some of the greenery of our space. Um do the chair if I may. So uh our code has both a landscape planting requirement for new construction as well as a landscape mitigation requirement for trees that are removed. it is um based on species. So things like palm trees aren't really protected under the code. Um but any type of shade tree that falls under our you know list of protected trees, they have to do uh a replacement of those trees based on a percentage of the inch caliber of the trees. So I believe it's like a one to three. So if they take down 10in calibers, they've got to put in at least three new trees that are 1in caliber or one 3-in caliber tree. So obviously they have to grow in over time but in essence they have to replace a percentage of the trees that they take down on top of the landscaping they have to provide under the code for new construction at a minimum. And so for my leite brain here, I didn't see that in the rendering. Um, but what I'm guessing, if I could interpret what you said back, is that that will be taken care of if there are any any protected trees that are removed in this process that they will be replaced as part of this process, whether this that's a conditional requirement from us or not,

right? At least at a minimum. So when they do the demolition, they have to note that they have to mark on a site plan what trees are coming down and then for the new construction, the mitigation will be part of their permit process. Right now we've had a pre-application meeting with the applicant to talk about things like utility locations and those types of things when they get into the full civil engineering submittal. Landscaping is part of what we look at and then that's again verified um at the beginning of construction and then they do an asbuilt survey at the end of construction. and then we do a landscape inspection. So throughout the process it will be addressed but that is keeping to the minimum that's in the code. You guys are welcome to propose more than that. Obviously there are some physical limitations on building size you know lot coverage setbacks those sort of things. So um if you get I would say chew in the weeds you may want to ask for some uh evaluation by the applicant if that's really the direction you want to go in as far as what reasonably can be planted and where. I'm not a landscape architect, so I don't want to get too far into it, but um they do have a minimum that's in the code that they have to meet.

Thanks. That's really helpful. I don't know if any of the other commissioners have a comment on the same. If I may, I I just wanted to um and Christian can correct me if I'm I'm wrong, but I believe when we updated first the comprehensive plan and then um the land development regulations, this was an issue that was of great interest to the community, I feel like I heard um quite a lot of discussion about it. That's true. And so there was a citywide kind of approach to addressing it. Um, which I I think would be implemented by by, you know, these individual applications. Um, I just wanted to give you that sort of background.

That's helpful. Yeah, that was my understanding.

Is there any further discussion? I have a roll call in the vote. David Doll, yes. Marggo Moring, yes. Dean Haddock, yes. Matthew Filer, yes. Justin Henderson, yes. Motion carries.

Next item of business. May we hear PC1 1925 through the chair. This is PC application number 1925. It is a conditional use application to allow for the construction of a third unit uh to an existing two-unit multif family structure located in the C1 zoning uh district pursuit into section 34 617D14 [Music] using the RO1 standards of the Jacksonville Beach Land Development Code. The subject property is located in the C1 uh commercial zoning district there. Um the property is located midblock along the north side of 10th Avenue South between 2nd Street South and Third Street South. This block is uh completely zoned to C1 commercial but is host to a mix of commercial and residential uses. The subject site is currently a two-unit multif family structure built in 1958. The property currently lacks any on-site parking and is located I'm sorry. The structure it lacks any on-site parking in is located near the front of the property with a substantial amount of undeveloped raw land in the rear. Uh the current structure is an updown duplex. Each unit is roughly 800 square f feet in size. The applicant is requesting to construct an additional third unit to the rear of the existing structure. Um, as part of the new construction, the current two units will be given four on-site parking spaces, which they lack now, um, in the front of the existing structure, and the third unit will have parking accessed off the uh, current the existing alley, which was recently improved as part of our uh, storm water project. The proposed use is within the limits of the maximum density allowed under the 2050 comprehensive plan and meets the minimum lot size requirements for RM2 zoning for density uh which is

located east of Third Street. The new structure will be built to meet all the current land development code, building code, and flood zone requirements. Surrounding uses include commercial coffee shop with a drive-through service uh adjoining to the west fronting on Third Street South, a commercial auto sales station, auto service station to the north, and adjoining uh a two-unit town home structure adjoining to the east, and an existing commercial retail center and vacant commercial lot to the south across 10th Avenue South. The proposed additional unit should not cause conflict with any of the existing surrounding uses, nor will it cause any uh expected form of nuisance. The surrounding area is a diverse mix of uses and adding a dwelling unit to the existing multif family property is supported by the intents and strategies of the 2050 comprehensive plan which encourages the infill development of residential units in existing residential and mixeduse areas. Based on the application and the information provided as well as the reasoning outlined in the staff memo, staff finds the request meets the criteria of section 34553. Therefore, the planning and development department recommends approval of PC1925 for the addition of a third multif family unit to an existing two-unit multif family property located in the C1 zoning uh district. As I had mentioned earlier, hang on the right somewhere. There we go. Uh, so here you have um relatively famous unnamed commercial establishment of coffee. This is a two-unit town home. You've got um additional uh multif family residential uses. Uh again, some commercial uses to the north with the uh car service area and then uh some vacant commercial property and residential on the south end. the um current property. This is your two-unit multif family and you can see the parking currently is located basically on the right of way

and then in the rear is a small accessory structure and just a large amount of vacant property. Um the alley has been improved that's in the rear. So, the intent is for the new um single unit structure to access uh off the alley for their parking and then in the front of the existing structure adding four parking spaces that will be on the property which will uh meet all their parking requirements. they're within the uh allowed density and they meet all the minimum lot size requirements um as well as lot coverage and um setbacks and everything else required under the dimensional standards. So happy to answer any questions. I think it's pretty similar to the last one we had.

All right, as a reminder, each member of the public will be given three minutes to speak when we open the public hearing. Does any commission member have any exparte communication to disclose? Hearing none. Would the applicant please come forward to be sworn in and give any presentations? Hello, I'm the applicant. I'm Chris Johns. Please raise your right hand and state your address. My name is Chris Johns and I live at 25510th Avenue South Jackson Beach, Florida, 32250, which is a duplex. I live downstairs. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. to help you God.

Absolutely. Also want to apologize to the commission nerves about my behavior versus I have a I'm in excruciating pain. I have a knee replacement. I've already had one. I have a second one on Thursday. So I'm in not on any pain medication. So I'm dying. That's all. Just wanted to let you know why I was. No problem. I don't have anything else to say. What? Yeah, I've already had one. I don't have anything to say. And he said everything. So, I don't know if yall have any questions. I won't be able to answer anything really. Me and my architect did everything and we met with Christian who went through everything over the phone. So, okay, I'll try to answer whatever questions you have if I can. Do any commission members have any questions for the applicant.

Hearing none. Thank you. I will now open the public hearing. We have speaker cards. We do not. Is there anyone in the audience who has not filled out a speaker card that wishes to speak? Seeing none, I will now close the public hearing and bring the item back to the board for discussion. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none. May I have a roll call vote on the motion? David Doll, yes. Marggo Moring, yes.

Dean Haddock, yes. Matthew Filer, yes. Justin Henderson, yes. Motion passes. Thank you. You guys have a lot of patience. I don't know how you did your job. You're all doing a great job. Staff, may we please have the planning department report?

Uh, yes. Actually, I'm going to go reverse just to say that uh for the November 10th applica or hearing, we have uh one conditional use request and then uh we have our city attorney, Mr. Megett, who's going to uh discuss next uh October October 27th next meeting and what we'll be covering. Good morning. Uh good evening. We're not to morning yet. I'm getting closer. Good evening, commission members. David Mig, city attorney. Uh wanted to just give you a quick briefing uh primer on what's going to be on the October 27th agenda. Uh there was a conditional use application that came before you at your July meeting uh to allow a medical marijuana treatment center dispensing facility at 240 South Third Street. Uh this board voted to deny the conditional use application. Uh litigation was filed uh after that denial. Um, as you as you may recall from some training you've had, it's what's called a petition for written of Cersei. Um, and as part of the negotiations of that litigation that is still ongoing, um, we have agreed to bring this back before you uh, at your next meeting. Um, because there isn't there is a question about the competent and substantial evidence that was that was in the record. There is the allegation in the complaint among the other allegations the petition rather is that the board's decision was not based on competent substantial evidence. So it is going to come back before you. Uh the record will be limited to the previous hearing from July 28th. So you're not going to hear any new testimony or any new evidence. You are still welcome to make whatever decision you determine. Um, but I would re recommend that you fully discuss uh

the rationale for whatever motions might be raised at that meeting uh based on what evidence you heard in terms of what the planning um excuse me the land development code criteria is for such for such a matter. Christian, from a planning perspective, is there anything I missed in that short description?

No, it'll be the same staff report, same information. Um it sunshine law still applies. If anyone has any any questions about the procedure, I would uh I gladly try to answer them right now. Um if you think of anything between now and the next meeting, I'll individually I could talk to any of you individually just about the the procedure. Go ahead.

Yeah. Uh most of us here have jobs. Most of us here have other duties to attend to. I have no idea what we talked about on 22 um or whatever whatever. Okay. Well, there you go. May maybe not, but will we get a packet on this before so we can study what the language is and we know exactly what we're going to talk about when we get to this meeting with Mr. uh Magcoo? Yes, we'll provide all the same materials that were available. Um, I don't know if the minutes will be available, if that's something we would want to include as well, if they are. Um, but you'll get what was given the first time.

Right. That's all I need. I just I don't know. I can't pick it out of the air even if I was here. So, you'll get you'll get the packet like normal. Okay. Thanks.

Sorry, Adam. So the the question is whether or not we've fully or appropriately considered substantial competent evidence. Is that am I understanding that correctly?

So there are I'm going to get in a little get into the weeds a little bit, but I want to make sure I give you a thorough answer. So there are three requirements under Florida law for uh quasi judicial hearing uh that might be challenged. Um, one, it has to procedural due process has to be afforded to the petitioner. Two, a decision on a quasi judicial item has to be based on confidence and substantial evidence. And three, the action cannot what's called depart from the essential requirements of law. In the lawsuit that's been filed, all three of those prongs are being challenged. Uh however at this time um we have agreed uh the the plaintiff council and myself representing the city and the litigation have agreed to hold the litigation in obeyance to bring this matter back before the planning commission solely on um really to see to have a discussion on on the matter with the opportunity for the board to discuss the evidence in more detail. There's allegations that there was no evidence in the record that could have supported the denial. I'm not saying you have to approve it. I'm not saying you have to deny it. That's still at your discretion. Um, but it would be I would recommend that the board undertake a thorough discussion at the next meeting on the pros and cons of the evidence that that is presented and and make a motion however you determine based on that evidence and we'll take it from there.

Thank you for that clarification. If I remember correctly, um the motion was to approve it and the commission uh didn't vote in favor of the motion. So I don't know that there was an opportunity to discuss the grounds on the denial of the application. Is that of issue? I mean it's seems like the outcome will be the same regardless based on the negotiation. But were we required to present a rationale for what was ultimately an affirmative motion that was voted down?

So let me talk in a general sense and and not about this specific item. Um, you know, there's there has to be evidence either in in the written materials and any sort of testimonial that was given and any any public comment to the extent it would be confident substantial evidence. Remember public comment may or may not be confident substantial evidence but there should have been in in an ideal situation there's discussion of you know what the evidence was that was relied upon for for a decision and some of the allegations of the petition for red assert is that there was not evidence in the record to support the decision chair. Uh so we have three three tolls. The first is due process which we think we did at that session. Second is confident substantial evidence and what was the third one? um whether or not the decision departed from the essential requirements of law. Off the top of my head, from memory, I cannot recall what what the case law says on that. I I I've argued petitions were at a certain court many times, and that's usually not the crux of the argument. Usually, it's the confident, substantial evidence, and and the parties at this point have agreed to a remand. So, that's what we're going to take it from there. We're going to have the hearing,

right? Due process depart from the essentials are out and we're going to we're going to argue the fact of substantial incompetent evidence. So, I want you to focus on that. I can't say. All right. Thanks. Let's at this point substantial incompetent. Okay. You know, we're staff's going to notice the meeting. Um, while there's not going to be new testimony, the procedural due process steps will be taken, right? We're going to analyze what we gave them for for substantial and competent evidence. That's what we're going to do at this next session, right? Yes. Thank you, sir.

And there won't be additional public testimony of any kind. There will not. Thank you. Christian, is that it for planning department report? That's all I have. Okay. May I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Stacked. Roll call. I believe we can hold this to a voice button.

All in favor say I. I have it.