Planning Board - Special Meeting

Okay, welcome everyone to the Thursday, May 1st, 2025 special meeting of the Sunset Beach Planning Board. Uh, let's stand for a pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Uh, yes, I'll officially call a meeting to order. We have a quorum, though we're not voting on anything today. Uh, do we need, Lisa, the conflicts of interest statement since we're not voting on anything today? No, you don't. Okay. So, the only item on our agenda today is just a discussion to plan the planning of the comprehensive plan, land use plan. So, this is like before the first step. Lisa, and I I could just start um just wanted to thank um the planning board for your initiative to get this process started. um and Wes and Ron for being with us today. The town council has included in the budget as we sit now uh with the money the funds to redo the land use plan. um we will go to ask for a public hearing during the May 5th meeting and looking for adoption at the June 2nd meeting of the budget and once we get there then we would be able to establish a calendar for you all to meet um if you would not want to do that during your regular meeting schedule. Um, Kimberly has so graciously taken all of the town plans and put them in a notebook for you that includes the Sunset Beach bicycle

and pedestrian plan, the um parks and recreation master plan. We also have a vision plan which was instrumental in the development of the um gateway corridor ordinances that we have in the UDO currently. and Wes will be able to speak to that um as he was instrumental in in getting that project completed. Um that project was initiated by the town council. However, it was not adopted. It was converted into the UDO gateway district ordinance that you have now. And with that, I'll turn it back over to you unless you have any questions for me. Am I on now? Thanks. I have a quick question. In terms of the budgeting, one of the aspects of the land use plan from 2017 that I thought was particularly helpful was the public survey uh that cost money. Is that in budgeted in the current plan? because I think we got some real guidance there in terms of the general consensus and uh that would be very helpful in terms of the process. Yes, the budget includes um I'm sure a survey, community meetings um and other types of of methods of getting public input. Okay. Now my recollement from the land use plan there was one public meeting and quote unquote in the land use plan it says that the attendance to that was quote unquote sparse. So is it possible that we have budget to make sure that the public is aware of their opportunity to participate and perhaps we should have more than just one public meeting. And is that something that can be make sure

that we get it in the budget so we don't wake up and go, "Oh, wait a minute. We don't we can't do more than one." The budget includes all of that already. Okay. And uh as with the master park plan, the parks and recreation plan, we not only had a community meeting in this building, but we had committees that went to the park, the beach, um and to other events like the markets, the concerts, and gathered public input through those um means as well. Okay. So, it's really the the planning board is the driver of how many community meeting events you want to have, uh what type, what forum it, you know, it's a clean slate of how you all want to start. I just want to make sure that and the money's there. Nothing early on the budget includes all that. So, that's great. And then the second thing is I know we have some guests here. There's nothing in the agenda that allows for public comments. Is that something that we can I will I can move to include that's at the pleasure of the board. Yeah, it doesn't. So I move that we allow for public comments based upon the protocol that exists for other planning board meetings. Three minutes no dialogue and we can either do that at someone at your leisure at your pleasure. Second I'll second it. All in favor? I. So we'll include a public comment period. But I I guess uh first of all before well I think I'd like to have the discussion first I guess or at least initial part of it was I think the original idea of kicking off this meeting which is obviously some may say slightly premature because it hasn't been technically a budget approved and scoping letters and all that stuff done but I'm sure it seems to be in the works was the original discussion we had

was I guess expanding what we had originally in this book, a land use plan to be more comprehensive to do more forwardlooking planning or more holistic type planning, you know, sort of a Sunset Beach 2040 plan or whatever. So I think the the first topic of discussion is maybe between Lisa and the town and uh Wes and then Ron and us is I I guess the the overall scope. Are we limiting it to the minimum requirements of what a land use plan should be or are we open to planning on expanding the two? Stuart, I think, was the one that came up with in making it this plus more holistic or comprehensive as a 10-year plan or I don't know, you know, 2040, whatever you want to pick as the date. Mr. Chair, if I may an hour, is this on? Doesn't sound like it. Is it on? Yeah, I I have a So, to your point, I've got just a quick couple brief slides just to lay the groundwork about what a land use plan is. Then we can and then and then we'll move into just getting feedback from everybody so we can have an open discussion about what your, you know, what your goals are for this plan, the things you want to see, etc. what the public engagement process is. It and if if you're fine, I can go stand up there and and we can go through that short presentation if if you're okay with that, Mr. Perfect. Okay. And if I can just preface this, I mean, the purpose of what we're going to do today is not to make any decisions about what the land use plan is, but rather to set forward how we're going to do this. Is that is that a fair assessment of what we're trying to try and accomplish today? Go ahead. A little bit on breath. I where I'm going to is

breath first of all, right? Yeah. To make sure the bre so the breath of what we're planning on doing fits with what the town wants to do in concert. Certainly in the budget, etc. So, take it away, Wes. Is there a clicker he needs up there? Yeah. and and I could sit up there, but I think it's easier for for everybody see me from here. Um, okay. So, let's just go through I just want to talk briefly about like what is a land use plan. You guys may already know that and so forgive me for going through it, but it I think it's it would be helpful, right, to at least understand. Yeah, Kevin's new so. Okay. And Kevin, very nice to meet you. My name is Wes. My name is Wes Mloud. I'm I'm with Capefare Council Governments. I've had the pleasure of working with the town on a number of projects over the years and have gotten to know the rest of these folks. So, so welcome and and pleasure to meet you. Um so, similar to your document now, it is an official document containing goals, policies, analyses, and maps that serves as a community's blueprint for growth. And in terms of growth, that doesn't necessarily, you know, like if we're if we're working on the town of Holden Beach, but Holden Beach is only an island, but the idea is understanding how they want to function over time. They're not going to have large subdivision, etc., but just understanding the blueprint moving forward and a certain defined time period, 20 to 30 years. Typically, there is formal guidance um in the form of adopted goals and policies that helps the decision-making process uh for youth for use by both the present and future elected officials and town staff. And the key is this is

guidance, you know, doesn't mean that it has to be followed to a tea. It is not regulatory. It just offers some direction uh in the decision-making process. When Ron's preparing his staff reports, there's references to, hey, the land use plan says X, Y, or Z. This is our direction that the land use plan is telling us and it may make sense to align with that or it may not depending on what the particular request is before. And Wes, I know this is isn't an official document, but I would add to that bullet point. Potential developers. Yeah, abs. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. The development community also use it. Um and and this is really one of the most critical elements of the land use planning process is an open form for the public and town officials to propose and implement new goals, policies and to and to address emerging issues. So for you guys, assuming that you're going to be the advisory board for this, which I think that you are, assuming of course this is adopted as part of the budget on Monday, um you you all are the ones that sort of are are the gatekeepers for all that public input and and oh joy. And and sorting out how that translates into either, you know, maintaining policies that we already have, revising ones, and making new ones. Um, and so that's that's sort of what this is is is getting at. And and one of the primary elements that we get that public engagement from is that community survey. And we'll talk talk a little bit more about that as well. Why do you want to do a land use plan? Um, provides an opportunity for self-evaluation particularly uh for a community's development regulatory programs and ordinances.

um allows also for input from various departments and also staff and of course you all as uh the the point of planning board or advisory board and in the town council. So as part of this process, we'll also meet with all the department heads and figure out, hey, what are the things that are going to be necessary, you feel like are needs and also wants over the next whatever it is 5, 10, 20 years. That doesn't mean that that's going to be turned into a budget request, but at least we've documented it somewhere. Um, and that way council knows maybe what what the departments are facing. And then lastly, this is this is new since this town's plan was was updated. Um, all local governments in North Carolina are now required as a prerequis preerequisite to retaining their zoning authority to have a land use plan. Um, you know, the the statute says that it has to be uh quote unquote reasonably maintained. No one no one knows what that means. Uh there's not been any uh legislation around that or any any litigation around that. Um but typically that means if if a community is facing some amount of growth and you guys probably read this in the codes codes cannons the re recommendation is you need to be looking to do uh update your plan um every 5 to 10 years. Well, can I ask a question because I look at that in the land use plan that we have right now in the land use plan it stated that the land use plan needed to be revised every two years and redone every seven. If we fall short of that, I would

reasonably predict that somebody could use that as a means to say you're not reasonably maintaining and now we're in the weeds. Sure. And and I think that you're referring to So the Division of Coastal Management wants us to do what's called an implementation status report every two years. Um that's not binding. I think that's what you're you're referring to. And then I think there's also language in there. I don't believe that it that it sort of necessitates, but it says, you know, the guidance is if possible try to update this every five to seven years, but is very hard to do that. um NPOS or so we should we should adopt the same language saying that we're going to reasonably maintain it. Sure. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. Way to go, Ron. You know, the the the transportation agencies are required to have a a plan done every five years. It takes almost two years to do it and soon as you're done, you got to start again. And so it it's really hard to do these things every five years if you're doing a full-blown, you know, evaluation. I mean, listen, we could we could update the demographics and review the policies, but you know, maybe that's not really relevant if you're not also seeking input from the public, right? And so that's why sometimes it takes a while to get these things up. Okay. And you'll see there the first item on this for the land use plan components is the public engagement results and input. There will also be demographics, um discussion on natural systems and environment, community facilities and services, existing conditions and land use patterns, goals and policies, and of course a future land use map. Um you know, so are those the components that are required by KMA

or is this your standard? That's a so that's a great question. So, I mean, generally a comprehensive land use plan entails these things and scopes are different depending on community preference, but this would be the fundamental basis of a of a comprehensive plan. Um, there's there's other plans. Whoops. Oh, never mind. It was just a glitch. Um, but this would also the the proposed plan for you all would encompass all the camera requirements as well. Okay. And they modified their rules in 2016 to be more flexible to community needs. There's still things that we have to do like we're required to do a 30-year population projection. Uh we're we're required to address certain uh management topic areas. But I found at least in our coastal communities, those are all topic areas that folks want to address anyways. So, you know, it's not as though we're trying to shoehorn in some camera rules into a plan that they sort of u mold together. And I'm going to assume that looking down at goals and policies because when I read this the current strategic the current land use plan where I thought it was kind of lacking was there really wasn't an area where where a very strong strategic guidance in terms of okay this is so I I assume that's in goals and policies but I I just want to make sure and then the other thing that I I I I see in here I think one of the issues that we're going I have to address is we are surrounded by a development culture that is very aggressive and it's and I think we need to have some input in terms of okay this is this is the environment we're going to have to learn how to live in and how

does that impact what we plan to do because I think you know what I keep coming back to is how do we absorb all this development that surrounds us without being overwhelmed by it. And unless you can say, "Okay, well, listen, Brunswick County is getting ready to build 50,000 household plats over the next 10 years, you know, and point that in there so we have some reference points of how we manage our assets in contrast to what surrounds us." Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that that naturally should be addressed as part of the plan. Well, I would see it as almost a separate bullet item. It would kind of be the external environment. So, yeah, kind of depends how far you want to go, you know, with broader circles from county, state, national, you know, but obviously the impacts fade as you go further away. Yeah, but part of that's in the community profile, too, because they can talk about what's going on in Brunswick County and, you know, how many lots are going to be within 10 miles of us or something like that. To me, the key point is we're not going to develop the plan, you know, isolated from the rest of the world around. We can't do that. We have to be aware of the world around us closer. That's right. In order to develop a smart plan. Exactly. And yeah, the community profile is going to address things that are going on in the county in the region and Ory County and New Henenver County. And also that's why at GSAT it's critical to talk to the department heads because they feel the impacts of folks that are driving in here in the summer and and so what are those needs? So and the commercial development surrounding it. I mean in the conversations that I had the conversation almost centered around Well, we don't want Sunset Beach to change. Well, that's great, but the reality is we're going to have to change

in response to what's going on around us. And I mean, that is constantly the conversation that I have. And I think that needs to be part of what we lay out so people understand. Yeah. Your order here is not necessarily the order, right? No, no. I mean, these are just things that are addressed in generally and then we pull, you know, whatever we touch on things. Um, you know, I I do think also your current plan, um, I I, you know, is maybe not organized the best. You know, these days we're I'm really trying to a lot of repetition trying to work with communities on, you know, we don't we don't want to have a 10-page document, but we don't need to have a 200page document for the sake of having a 200page document. And so because for for no other reason than people just won't read it and so you know boiling it down making it making making it have fewer chapters things like that. Well, the other thing too is I found that the strategic components of it were kind of littered in various places. Like there's a vision plan in section 111. Then there's, you know, extensive ideas about the future in section seven. Yeah. But it's not, you know, to my mind, it ought to be, okay, here's the vision plan, here's the strategic goals, and that ought ought to be one of the strongest sections and most isolated in terms of we want to state clearly in a one section. This is what we think we ought to be doing and where we're Yep. Um, okay. So, let's just talk just a little bit about roles and responsibilities. I think you guys are probably familiar with this, but this is just always helpful to kind of go over uh to make sure everyone's expectations are kind of aligned. Um, as a consultant, you know, it's our job, my job to help prepare the materials, prepare the document, you type the document, etc. help facilitate the meetings. That that means these meetings

and also any public meetings that are held and then serve as a technical technical adviser. Um town staff provides administrative input regarding the land use plan contents and they offer input on you know how is this plan in reality going to be uh not implanted implemented uh and utilized um I missed that one. Um, so you know, we may chat GP GPT made that mistake. Correct. I, you know, listen, I haven't figured out how to use chat GPT well enough. My life would probably be a lot easier. But um um so, you know, we may have a great idea, right? But it's important to sometimes make sure that idea makes sense from administrative standpoint, too. Um, about the realities of how this particular policy may be utilized. Um and then for you all, you know, while you're the planning board, you are as of now proposed to be the advisory committee for this project. And so, you know, you guys are providing feedback and input to staff and the consultants, reviewing the plan materials, of course, um providing oversight. Is Ron too, staff or consultant? He is a he's sort of both, but he's more so going to be he's staff. Yeah. staff. In this role, he'll be more considered staff. In this role, I'll be more staff. I had to turn my microphone on. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. So, good. So, we can tell him things to yell at. Well, correct. That's really what I wanted to know. Yes. Um, and so, you know, Kevin, you know, most of these guys have have have worked through some of these things before. um a number of these guys were

also when we did the UDO which was a very heavy lift this is not as heavy of a lift but it's a similar iterative process um so yeah and you know we want to make sure that the goals policies priorities plan materials etc are representative of the citizens and property owners of Sunset Beach and so that's you know certainly you all's perspective just being appointed members but also you guys job is, you know, for us to take in all this feedback and make sure we're crafting a document that aligns with that feedback. just you know briefly I I probably didn't need to share this but these are just you know past experiences in the in the region of plans that that I have have participated in and and um led um as you can see a number of beach towns um you know also in the region here close by and uh Wilmington is getting ready is actually now in the process of redoing theirs the city of Wilmington. Yeah. And what county are they? New handover new handover new handover is redoing theirs as we speak. So uh the the one thing I would simply add to this and for me this is one of the critical goals. We spent two years rewriting the UDEO and made significant improvements in that document that over the long term are going to have a big impact on Unfortunately, what ended up happening is Logan came in and basically pounded us with statements that were in the land use plan that frankly were in complete opposition to what we'd been doing in the UDO. A lot of what got ultimately approved did not reflect the UDO that we spent two years writing. So one of the

other goals of this is I want to make sure that this you know the UDO is really a tactical application of the strategy and in some respects we might have been better if we done the land use plan and then the UDO. It's good that we didn't because now nobody can redo their UDOs's because of the North Carolina legislature. Um, but I want to make sure that the land use plan is in lock step with what we see as the strategic goals of the UDO so we don't get in a position again where they are not in lock step and they can be used because you know Logan made the argument you know we as a developer have a right to be a but don't but I don't know lockep I wouldn't use maybe because I would certainly think through this process and that I think we we we will probably come up with things that maybe need to be revised, added to or in the UDO to make it happen. So I I I will go so far as saying yes, we don't want to create a land use plan that is diametrically opposite to our current code. And I'm sure that's not going to happen. But uh and of course there's always these timing differentials on when something was updated. But right uh I would I would think there may be some things that when we're finished with this process, hey we got to look at the UDO and say if we want the land use plan to work for five or 10 or years, we may need to you know look at the code and say well we need just like we talked about last month on parking. You know they you know, if you go back, some of the parking things was actually in that other plan that that first plan and that like see how it happened now and we may need it. So, I just wouldn't go with

Yeah. No, I we're in complete agreement here, Ron. Okay. Because I think realistically the land use plan, I mean, in terms of residential development, pretty much we're done. uh most of the decisions and that impact the existing parcels that were available are now pretty much approved and I think what's what we're really going to be looking at is commercial development going forward. How do we guide that? Um am I out of step here? Well, so we can let him finish. Yeah, we're we're almost we're almost there. So, okay, just looking back on some of the planning processes. Um and you know I mentioned this this is a the Sunset Boulevard vision plan which encompasses you know the majority of of you know or a large area of undeveloped um commercially zoned tract. Um, you know, we went through a pretty arduous process on this, um, to understand kind of what people wanted to see moving forward from a commercial standpoint, uh, particularly as it relates to Sunset Boulevard and down there, uh, where the new bridge is. Right. This doesn't reflect a conditional reszoning application from Riptide, which means there's commercial zoning on the north side of 179 at um what used to be old courtyard road. And Wes, if I could add. Yes, ma'am. Under GATS, we are in the process of doing the 904 corridor study, which will go from the intersection here all the way to 17. Perfect. So, we'll be able to incorporate that into the land use plan as well. Okay. Thank you. What does that mean in timing? Uh, six months. Six months. Um, and that include because right now, my understanding there's commercial inventory on the northwest northwest

northwest corner across from the talk of the town shopping center. Right. Well, there's so we'll get one of my first questions on this or to me t on this is is an I'm jumping ahead of my thought process is an assessment of what's what is developed. Sure. Basically spoken for. Yeah. Versus what's not spoken for in various different ways. And then to me that's what we have to I mean in the end that's all that's left to decide on. Right. Obviously what's already spoke other than some interconnectability things, modal things. Uh uh but to me that's like I know they're already working on a zoning map up to date. Uh and then on my next thought was some overlay on that that says here's what's completely spoken for. I mean if it's a platted residential there's no land use planning for it. It's already been land used. Sure. But and then what's left and then try to be look at that. Yeah. Yeah. and and we're almost to the input, but I'll just touch on Okay, I I'll just hit one thing along that question. I mean, yes, it's important to understand what's vacant, but you have to understand there is a ton of properties that have been developed, you know, 30, 40 years ago. Um, and and my guess is a perspective is that those should be redeveloped in their same way. But those are things that are also addressed, you know, in in this plan. Um, just real quick, this is your existing future land use map there. Um, you know, you all are probably familiar with this. Um, just and this is, you know, one of the important parts really important parts of the land use plan. This is sort of the zoning map version of the land use plan that provides input on, you know, how development is envisioned to occur um within the time horizon of of the plan.

Um, you know, what type of uses, what type of density, etc. Now, quick question. With the new downsizing laws, downzoning. Down zoning. Yep. Does that impact what we do with this these kind of land use plan designations? Um, so that's a really great question and from a for a land use plan really the only regulatory component is is the impacts to what are called the KMA AEC's. And so, you know, the short answer is no, not really. But there's some things that we'll just need to make sure that we are not upsetting the apple cart over. I mean, right now, almost all of your a a large portion of of land that's in your areas of environmental concern on the land use plan is identified as a marsh preserve, right? So, we're not saying that it can be developed already. So, it we're probably okay. Okay. All right. Okay. So just wanted to provide that basis. Thank you for bearing with me. So I mean I just kind of want to go let's see it's 12:30. So um just go one by one and we can start with Jerry and you know kind of what your your thoughts are in terms of what you want to accomplish as part of the the land use plan process. Thank you for calling me on first. Sorry. Well, if you want me to go first already paid by the word. Yeah. I just thinking and Wes, thank you so much for coming in. Sure. You mentioned about the heavy lifting of the UDO. um how we're gonna attack this and where where it's not so heavy lift and that we

can get it done within one Thursday meeting a month maybe after after but I would have to yield to uh to town staff to see what works best for them as well. So yeah, it's just um the UDO was very laborious for me. Uh it was tough. So, if we could minimize how many times we meet a month, uh, would be great. So, I would suspect we're going to need some in halfway meetings and and that focus just on this subject, but again, I don't think it would it should go. It may be more spread out or there's going to be some points probably where we need more input and then there's be stretches because y is there is there a time table? So I've got and I do have a hypothetical timeline that's that's after this but in and so this is way different. We had 21 meetings with the planning board. We we we are proposing to have six with the planning board. I mean there's there's there's about six chapters of material. If we need more we need more but that's you know this is very different than the than the UDO. You are the expert. You are the expert. I'm a novice when it comes to this. So I am looking towards you to kind of kind of get the meetings. Let's minimize the chatter. Let's get to the points and then get it done. Okay. All right. Perfect. So thank you. That's a great question, Stuart. Um, can we I mean the the bicycle pedestrian plan hasn't been updated since 2009. I believe there was a bridge built Oh yeah. Can we incorporate an update to that into this comprehensive land use plan update? You could, but um you know really they need to be separate. I I think that we will have emphasis on it

in in a general sense on the importance of it and I think that's naturally going to come out. People are going to say we need more bike ped facilities etc. But I mean, I think that one thing that for staff and and me, separate of the land use plan is we need to reach out to NC DOT and see if we can get a grant to to do a dedicated bike ped plan. And you know, the matching on's not bad. I can if I can. I have already applied for a DA grant through GAPS to take a multimotal path from the mainland town park to the Calabash River Bridge. Oh, very cool. Awesome. Okay. So, we could definitely include a moto path from the park to the Regency easily in the land use plan. Okay. It's just the other half. Mhm. Or not half like a quarter that involves the county and then Calabash. Um, so it's it's addressed, but I don't think that we would be doing it. You know, the land use plan sort of lives up on a sort of a higher policy document. And then I think part of the land use plan may say, "Hey, let's move forward and get a work on a dedicated bike ped plan." Yeah. But could that then drive that again here's going to the UDO that that if you're you have to make the space available or development to make the space available like I pick the other side Logan Yeah. has a multi-use path now. Just was some maybe geography did that. But we spent a lot of time making sure that path went all the way from the top is wide enough and went all the way to the bottom. Right. Again, here's where I'd say if a land use plan says we're going to have some nonmo vehicle. Yeah. And I don't put ebikes in there anymore. Yeah. uh you know so transportation and that's

the land use plan and that may then drive things into UDOTA. Okay, we have to say if you're going to part of your open space has to be X amount for non-motorized what do you want to call this? Yep. Other other than car path let's call it that for now in there. So that's what I'm saying. this can drive the the regulatory requirements and the the other side of this in terms of getting grants. It would be extremely helpful if there's a communitydriven town document that says this is what we want. Now you can go to a grant and say hey we're ready give us some money. Uh so I think it would be that that's another aspect of this that would really drive some grant activity and help you all. Stuart continue. Um, so I scanned through the vision plan that you sent. I haven't had time to That's fine. I know I sent it yesterday and I loved it. And that's kind of what I would like to see the land use plan look more like that instead of all the I don't know, it's just repetition of statistics. And it's just, you know, it'll put you to sleep in 10 minutes. But the vision plan for me was really exciting because it talks about aesthetics. So, you know, what is this going to look like? And we really haven't given much guidance, you know, and to say that we took the vision plan which was a 90page document that had all kinds of great stuff and we boiled it down into the gateway corridor district that's five pages and has it just doesn't have any teeth really. So, I'm going to start I want to push for more like the vision plan with you know what we have now is a land use plan. What you put up there is that you

worked on comprehensive land use plans. I want ours to be more comprehensive or more detailed in what we're doing because we really have less to look at because not much is going to change residentially and you know can we spend more time working on you know the the ped access the transportation issues and can we look into the future more you know can we do staggered goals and objectives over a fiveyear, a 15 year, and a 25 year plan because some of this is hard to achieve in five years. Some of it's hard to achieve in 15, but 25 years from now, you know, we don't know. I mean, maybe they're going to be renting hoverboards at the village and going over to the beach, you know, I don't know. I won't be here, but Yeah. So, you know, I think that um to your point that the current plan, the organization of it is is not right. Um the thing that we do have to remember it still is a policy document. So, some of it this thing is going to put us to sleep, but it doesn't mean it needs to be overly we it does not need to look like your current one. So, it mean two two components to it. We have a regulatory component and a a vision or growth plan component that we could hand to people without putting them to sleep with the regulator. Yeah. I mean, we can create a separate executive summary that's that's, you know, boils down the the goals and the policies, but you know, I think we can focus more on, you know, if if like urban design, you know, or or the, you know, the description of the future land use is is more important to you, we can do that. And then if there's things that

you know really the land use plan as part of that largecale public input the goal is to identify if there's certain things like that hey you know um council or or town we feel like we need to you know hire an architect or whoever to go study this area for example and figure out you know what to do in this in this particular area. Um I just say from and this is also part of a discussion would obviously have budgetary impacts because the current budget is kind of just listen we need to readress re-evaluate recreate the plan a better plan but it doesn't propose to do you know bike pled bike ped engineering or architectural analysis um right it will have visioning though as it relates to public engagement that's received but from this process. Could we then continue? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, obviously we need to get what's done what supposed to be done. But I always sus but if we can't go with I mean the vision plan there was pretty obviously extremely detailed. Actually surprised reading that that a few things kind of happened. uh I hadn't seen that before even though I was involved but uh so that if the land if our plan is to come up with something like that that it can be then yep I see the next step is hey we got a recommended action we need to do x y or z we and it could be broken it doesn't have to be it could be that okay the commercial district or whatever we need a here the land use plan says this strip the 904 whatever is our nonresidential business district. Mhm. And then our next plan will be what's that to look like, right? You know what I mean? It's like precisely. Yes. So, it's not part of this sort of policy plan, but the policy to that here's what it's going to

be and now you guys need to come up with a the next step plan for it. Exactly. And and if there's going to be money involved, then it obviously the budget process comes into play then. Exactly. And and there'll be, you know, the hopefully with this plan, we'll also have recommended actions that will have years tied to them. you know, the goal is to do this and they'll there should be, you know, I think one thing that this one misses um that that can be done better is at least having a table of all those actions so that you know, you guys as a planning board can get that once the plan's adopted at the start of the year and figure out are these things that we want to work on or ask council to to to grant us feedback on working on. Right. Right. So, I don't have a great answer to your question on that. I would love to do like an urban design plan or separate engineering and bike ped stuff, but it's it's just kind of a a different animal, right? But but I think we need to lay the vision in this. Yes. Such that when if we don't get it in this a year from now when Stuart's sitting here, he can say the new land use plan says we are going to work on this. It's you're not really talking about a land use plan is the thing. You're talking about a separate planning effort, right? Um you know, an urban design plan or, you know, doing an architectural pattern book for for commercial, you know, whatever it is, or doing a separate just, you know, hiring specialists that do bike and pedestrian plans and they do the engineering on the intersection to figure out, you know, hey, this is how potentially this would look. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. And just for the record, I'm less concerned about architectural aesthetics of Sunset Boulevard because the Gateway District does have architectural standards in

there, which is good. I'm more thinking about, you know, where's the sidewalks and where are the trees plantings? Because I love that vista as you go down to the the last sea trail entrance with the trees overhanging the road and the Spanish moss and you know can we recreate that on the other side to some effect you know that's what I'm kind of okay thinking about. Sure. you know, because as we're drawing people into the bridge, you know, we want it to look like a beach town, not, you know, an urban, you know, streetscape on one side and then beautiful trees on the other side, you know. No, that those that type of thing can absolutely be addressed as part of the land use plan and just describing and providing some example images or whatever about, hey, these are the things that we feel like are important to us. Okay. And can we steal information out of that vision plan? Of course. Yes. He wrote it. Was that your senior project in high school? No. Cuz you're obviously so young and that was written so young long ago. No, it was not because there's some great stuff in there about um intersection, you know, pedestrian crossings. There's lots of detail in there that I feel like we could steal some of that and use it as examples of what we want to see. Yep. Not if we're not going to get into the specifics until we do another plan, but if we can at least give guidance, this is really what we're looking for kind of kind of thing. Wonderful. Our new member, Kevin. New member. New member. Go for it, Kevin. where Steuart took most of my stuff I can talk about. Anyhow, the biggest thing what I'm concerned about is that survey, you know, make sure we get the town involved in the people. Uh I know we said we did surveys for the last one. I've been here for 15 years. I

never knew there was a survey done in Sunset. Uh probably my fault more than anybody else, but you know, make sure that we get the whole town involved so it's not a after the effect, you know, we're going to do this thing and next thing you know, we hear all this clamoring and everything else. Everybody's protesting and complaining. You know, make sure we have that taken care of. The other thing, and Stuart already talked a little bit about this, is the making sure that this plan is very concise and pinpoint because when I was handed this last month, it did put me to sleep a few times. Uh, I know it's a lot of, you know, you have to have certain amount of stuff, but like I said, the vision plan was more enjoyable to read and everything else and goes forward. And my last point is, and my biggest concern as being a homeowner here for years, is our commercial emphasis. You know, we have so many vacant properties between the circle and talk of the town. Put it that way. Use that one. you know, how do we how do we get more business in that area versus, you know, everyone's getting their cars and going down to Calabash and going down a little river or going someplace else to do their shopping because there's not enough shopping or whatever needs to be in the area. That's my biggest concern. Great. Save the You're already done, right? No. Um, I agree with Stuart. I I have not had the privilege of reviewing the vision plan, but I've been over the land use plan pretty comprehensively. My background in business development is I wrote master business plans for companies like Mastercard and others. So to me, this is

like a master business plan and it needs to be somewhat visionary. It needs to take into account you know where you would like to guide uh your initiative. Um I am very concerned about the difference between the potential for what we call string development which is just development up the thorough affairs little or no walkability little or no community sense. We had the good fortune of creating a mud district. Okay. And I'm really keen on how can we concentrate commercial development in that area because I don't think we're going to get any relief in terms of traffic over the next 10 years. So when we develop commercial, we want to minimize the traffic impact. Mixed development does that. If you have an area where people can park once and have two, three or four commercial interactions where they have to get back in their car, that's a huge lift in terms of what we can accomplish. So, uh, I've been pounding the table on this for a while and I hope in the vision plan, you know, we give strategic guidance that informs what we can then go to a developer and say, "Hey, in the best of all possible worlds, we'd like you to do this." Okay? As opposed to having them show up and say, "Okay, well, we're ready to build this there." And it's kind of like, "Oh, well, we say yes or do we say no?" Um, so that's a big thing to me and just providing a strategic overview that is informed by community sentiment and the demographic future that is in store for us. I mean, I do think we have to take a look at, you know, Sunset Beach historically has been the most senior

area in Brunswick County. I think that's about to change. The new home buyers I see that surround me are younger and their needs are going to be very different from the senior retired community that is primarily in Sunset Beach now. And I may be wrong, but I think that's something we need to take a demographic look at going forward. So, I'm very encouraged by what you just put up there and I look forward to uh moving forward on it. Okay, Mr. Chair, couple yeah points I guess. going against the grain here. I'm all for the public input and survey, but I think we need to not rush to that. Agree. Because certainly when it's too broad of questioning, too early in the process, everyone's going to answer the questions to be we want Sunset Beach the same as it was the day before we decided to move here, buy here, acquire here, or build here, right? That's the na that's human nature. Yep. So, I'm all for the public input, but I certainly think we need to assess what we have. Mhm. You know what exists currently, what's available so that when you when we go to the public and say we would like your feelings on commercial strip or whatever what's that you got to be specific in your questions, you know, because otherwise you get to always the same, you know, we want less traffic, we want less building except for my house, right? We we want free bar. We want So I mean it's just human nature. It's not like anything. You should be a consultant, Ron. You can come with me to the meetings, the public hearings. It's just human nature. You when the day be the

day I decided to move here was perfect in my mind, right? So anything that changes afterwards has now corrupted my picture a little bit, right? You know, don't put seagulls in my painting, right? Uh so that's so my only point on that to go against the grain is yes we need the public input but I think we need to make sure what we want specific them to input on and not just yes you know agree you're right general not just general because then you so you know so I'm I don't know what you're thinking maybe you already know this because you've done enough of these but there's a you know feel rush in let's have a public meeting and send out surveys and you get in the end I'm not sure then there's nothing actionable from it and then later what he complains well you didn't do what well but because so I just want to say let's make sure we be thoughtful and strategic and as specific as you can be obviously these when you you know do your survey monkey thing and you put the it's you know but so that you can say you know here's the area we're looking at this is what would you like to see here. A B C D and sure not as many as just other fill in the blank. You know what I'm saying? And I I concur with Ron. I mean, we do need a little bit of care because, you know, you go on social media, I mean, most of what you get are what I call the squeaky wheelers and, you know, and they have valid points and God bless them, but I don't think they represent the total community sentiment. I was surprised. We did the survey in 2017. 90% of the survey wanted a restaurant. 40% wanted a hotel. Yep. Okay. They just did the same thing in Ocean Ridge as part of the HOA. They did a survey. They said, "Do we want a new amenity center and do we want a new restaurant?" They voted for the amenity center. They voted against the restaurant. Guess what? They just

finished building their amenity center. So, I think it can be a little more constructive. All I'm saying is make sure we I think some of the front end work needs to be done first assessing what we have, what's left, what's what are the demographics, are these changes occurring, maybe yes, maybe no, and then say here's here's the specific questions and input we'd like so that we can sure make that part. So, you know, I that's so that is a great point that you make and unfortunately um at least the way that it's typically handled is you you guys like I mentioned before kind of the gatekeepers of that input and understanding yes, you know, maybe everyone wants a ne a home to never another home never to be built in Sunset Beach, but but unfortunately that's that's not reality. And um you know it's really tough to to you know educate folks about that. I mean you know and that's a great um you know and I struggle with that in my own personal life. You know a friend comes up to me I can't believe they're building X Y and Z and I just I just listen to him. I don't even tell him well there's laws and you know um so Right. Um, so but you know I I think that we're you guys are obviously going to going to play a role in in getting the survey questions and reviewing them before a survey goes out and then also going to play a role in hey we got all this feedback how's it handled well no one wants to build another thing that's unfortunate how do we structure but I think like Richard's example kind of tells you what I'm kind of when Ocean Ridge or whatever Yeah. surveyed, they gave them, I don't know, found like two choices, maybe three. I don't know how it went. So, yeah, we're going to get we're going to have you would get a restaurant, an amenity

center, or a pool, whatever. And they had to answer that. They did not like Well, maybe there was none. Maybe the question was none of the above. I don't know. But but that's what I'm saying. You know, we're going to have as opposed would you like some more recreation? You know what I mean? Well, of course. Yes. Right. But the goal is we're going to have, you know, closed questions, a couple broad-based questions, generalized topics, but then they're going to be some specific ones about recreation, land use, commercial development, but then we're also going to give the folks an opportunity to to just tell us whatever they want in a in an open-ended question, you know, right? And and again, you guys are going to have a chance to review this, but typically this thing needs to be less than 10 or 10 questions or less. Otherwise, nobody's going to not do it. Sorry. Yeah. And that's okay. But you you said the word education and and I think I spend a fair amount of time on social media and most of the time I'm instructing people, hey, yes, in a perfect world, this is what we could do. It's not a perfect world. You're in North Carolina. Here is what we are limited to do. You know, there is development by right. Somebody owns it and they want to build it. There's not a lot we can do. And I think it would be helpful and I maybe I'm being completely idealistic on this to be part of this process to kind of educate people as to what is it that we can really control? what are what are the legislative mandates that we have to work under and and give them some guidance so that you know I mean I have people you know they come in and hair on fire well you guys need to you know sponsor a moratorum on development I'm like yeah great okay u you know I'd like a night alone with Stevie Nicks but it's not going to happen so anyway I thought that might be

a useful part of this process yeah if I may consider Um, the one component that I'm not hearing you bring to the table is the commercial developers and the residential developers. Yeah. I think it's very important for you to bring those folks to the table as well. Yes. Yeah. But would you I guess uh would that be separate? they they would be stakeholders and so if there's sort of stakeholder interviews that we would do selected uh just like just to just to get folks would we be are we how I would on the on this uh in this capacity as the advisory committee and who happens to be the same members of the planning board can we meet as a group with and have a roundt discussion are we under the same meeting laws Even though we're not acting as the planning board at the time, you are under the same meeting laws because you are acting as the planning board and you would sub uh break into subcommittees to organize a lot of these aspects and one of those subcommittees could be with so we could have like two people talking to the residential staff two people talking to the commercial and bringing it back to the group. So then we need to Yeah, that's a val good point that we got to do that. Could we do this kind of on the model of the parking commission? No, because you're an appointed board. The parking committee was not an appointed board. Well, then how so? Well, Stu served on it. Two council members served on it. There were volunteers. Well, again, two, we can always go by two. Yeah. So, only two of the of planning board advisory committee. Uh, and then staff and then obviously Wes or whoever he signs, Ron or whatever. Okay. So, we need to then somehow early in the process figure out how we're going to divvy up the

subcommittee work. Well, and yeah, because we did I mean we did that with proposal. So we could do that with the the commercial developers and do two on you know two ons with a staff member and you know I mean essentially Carolina Dreams but I I think that we can figure out how to make sure that we get their input. You know usually the consultant is involved in having one-on ones with them and we bring that feedback to you all. Um, but I think that there's probably things that we can do whether whether we invite folks to to a meeting or or whatever it is, but but we can, you know, sort that out. My initial preferences have the sit face to face sit down with a subcommittee and then Yeah. and then bring the report. Sure. Then bring this whatever the findings to the to the whole group. Then I think even official subcommittees of the planning board would be potentially subject to open meeting laws depending who who the membership is and everything. We'd have to be careful even with the two is the ERC doing that would like two people subcommitt I don't know but if this an official comm this official committee appointed by this board make sure we do it we need to be careful with we need to make sure we do it right legal but I think my the key is we're going to get the input however it happens whether it's through me bringing back to you or if some of you are involved in some capacity in participating in those interviews. Yeah I think this is a devil's in the details subject but I think it's something we got to figure out. We know the intent. Yeah. Yes, sir. So, um, to that point, is there something that the planning board can do to help in all this that's more than what we're talking about that, you know, cuts down your scope of service and maybe saves the town a little bit of money? Or, you know, Jerry doesn't want to be involved. Only only on rainy days. If it rains, it's okay. He can be involved. If it's winter, this is abuse.

Um, I know you guys Stewart, I like to work with you on the subcommittee. Um, no, I mean I think that one of the things that's very helpful is making sure that you guys share whatever survey we come up with and make sure with people are getting getting that survey done. I think there's other things that we could do um related to seeking feedback once we get further along and you know bringing that feedback you know back to the group. Um so there's things that so could we hold like a community meeting at the gazebo and maybe yeah we'd have to people would have to write down comments and we could bring them back to you or something like that. What about can we do it would be better for you to break off into groups. Yeah. And if you want to set up a table at the gazebo, right, and gather input as people are walking by. Yeah, that's you could have some visual aid. You absolutely 100% can do that. Yep. Yeah. I would say and you know hard copies of the survey can be available, tell folks that we're working on. Um and when we get to the point that we do would have a draft future land use map, you know, that could be, you know, they're available. things like that. This is something that could be coordinated with special events. Is that what I'm hearing? So like or it doesn't have to be. I mean the demographics of if you're going to set up at the Zebo gazebo on a Wednesday, you're going to have a different crowd than you are on a Saturday, right? So it may be that two of you go on Wednesday and two of you go on Saturday and then some of you do the same thing at the park. Um well like market asked to set up a table at food line you know for that matter. Yeah it's can we the possibilities are unlimited when you're trying to engage I would guess you you are going to be the

central depository where you're going to have like a website for collaboration where everything is saved and stored and looked at. We can have a dedicated town website if we want. Um, usually what happens is everything is drafted and reviewed here and when you all are comfortable, the draft material is, you know, made available for the public to see, but that that's just part of the process. Kind of similar to way the UDO was done, but but in a much simpler process, right? Um, but yes, and Kimberly can build you a page on the website. Sure. Yeah, that that works. put it right under the planning board and you can direct people to go there for all the information that you're doing. That'd be great. And is is the the documents that we received today, the vision plan, the other plans that were in here, are they on the website now or no? There isn't one yet. That's sort of a question I as should we have one? That could be the very first things that go up on your web page, including a summary of what this process is and why. Um, introducing the people to its not get everything together on one a land use comp whatever you want to call it web page long range planning documents right something like that um and so yeah that's a great question Stuart and the last thing I'll say that you know something that you guys can be thinking about and maybe there's a couple of you that are involved is you know one of you or two of you maybe would be tasked with trying to get um business owners to participate in the survey or some type of separate survey because those are it's often times hard to get get those folks to participate in the process. Right. Okay. Um we talked about this um I think um are there other planning processes or efforts that may be needed in addition to the land use plan, small area plans, capital improvements, economic development studies, etc. I think we

talked a little bit about um certainly bike ped planning. Um commercial planning. Um yeah. Well, like the vision plan covered Sunset Boulevard, which I loved, but I'd love for it to go all the way to the island. Mhm. And talk about that as well. Again, you know, when this happened, the bridge had just come in. There was no roundabout. you know, lots of thing. The park has really changed over the years. So, a lot of that looks a lot different. So, and that that's why that was done relates to to the land the roundabout coming in specifically. Um, I do think that, you know, doing something on the island in terms of a similar streetscape plan or vision plan, especially with new parking, would be a something for for the town to to consider. Something that springs to mind on this input issue is Would this also include potential staffing? I mean, if we're looking at commercial development, you know, do we invest in an economic development person? I mean, the those are issues that may be driven by, okay, if this is what we want, you know, it's not just going to land in our lap, we may have to provide resources for staffing to go out and get it. Yep. Okay. Which is what a lot of towns do. Uh so anyway, I I would think that would be part of what we include. Yeah, I mean that that would be definitely something that could be talked about in general terms and that that goes back to some of the department stuff, but if economic development bubbles up as something that's important. Um, you know, that's something that can be included in in one of the policies and the considerations for council moving forward. I'll just briefly on this. You know, that was something that was very important to Oak Island. Um I helped them do their plan and 2014 and economic development was

really important. It it took almost 10 years, but they they've now finally budgeted for, you know, a certain line item to have an economic development related person there. So, to Stuart's point, you know, we're going to have a there'll be a lot of stuff in the landings plant. If some of it gets accomplished, we'll be doing good. That's just a reality, you know, of these particularly in the short term. Well, you mentioned small area plans. Could the island be a small area plan? Absolutely. And Sunset Boulevard could be a small area plan because we don't really have other big areas to to talk about really. That's right. Yep. Most of it's developed. So, yeah. Once you have those small area plan, then it's just interconnecting all right. That's right. Either through vehicle or non-vehicle. Right. Yep. Um last last bullet here and I I think maybe we touched on this but if anyone wants to add anything else to it. Um you know any you know topics you feel that are most important to address. I think that well I guess what I would stick there is we are in a wind event area. Uh so uh resiliency and emergency management and communications. I mean, I think the ERC is part of this now too or whatever. Uh too, I think obviously some of the land use plan has to be not land use because we need places for mother nature to play. Yep. uh and then places where we want to defend against mother nature where so I think certainly you know because of where we're at we'll have to face I mean we part of our all planning has to be what happens if hurricane XYZ shows up what are we go what's the best way to handle it what's the best way to

protect during it and then what's the best way to bounce back afterwards so I think that for us that has to be in there somehow Otherwise, I think would be sort of neglect. And the ERC was a part of the resilient coastal communities program that we just went through with KMA. And there were strategic um goals and priority listings in those documents that could certainly be incorporated into this one. Absolutely. And does that include because I I raised this issue a couple of years ago about cellular tower availability. Yeah. I don't need it no more because that needs to be in here cuz you could one of the you get a free Starlink now for a year. Yeah. Because one of the things that's going to happen, God forbid if we have a major power outlet, people are going to discover that their access to the cellular network via Wi-Fi goes bye-bye. If there's not enough towers, that phone is a brick. I do not believe that was included in the RCCP. It needs to be. I think we did have communicate. Well, the first pass that we did had a bullet point in for looking at it or preparing for it communications, but uh not it didn't make it down to course technology is changing so fast like right now. I mean, Starlink or whatever the competitor is obviously is I'm sure all emergency management committee group whatever they're called is probably looking at that has that or going to have that. And I see now even today residentially you get it for the free equipment for and you get sign up for a year you get the little dish for free. So yeah. Okay. Wonderful. Um almost done here. Anything else that anyone wants to Okay, I have more

questions, but Okay, if you want to get through your um Okay, just general question. Okay, so I'll just you know this is a potential timeline timeline not set in stone in any sense. Um you'll see there's not 21 meetings here contemplated. Um but you know assuming this is adopted as part of the budget uh there'd be a potential notice to proceed in July. There'd be a kickoff meeting sometime in August. First couple of chapters prepared September through November. Um moving into the winter December through January looking at community services and then you know the plan for the future like future land use map things like that. Um and then hypothetically, you know, the plan already being moved out of the planning board subject to you all's discretion, you know, early um early spring. Um and then, you know, depending on council's review time, uh you know, a potential adoption by council sometime by next summer and then sent to Coastal Resources Commission for certification. Two things here. This is going to be this will serve as a town's ka plan. So it we are required to send this plan to division of coastal management. I have no control over their timeline. They tell us it's going to be 60 days. Sometimes 60 days turns into 120 days or 180 days. The last one was two years. Yes. and and precisely because of that and and you don't I I've done this enough times that I know what needs to be in the plan. It's just takes them I don't know what they do. I don't know what the black hole is. Uh so sometimes it just sits there. Um but you

know for us it is you know whatever we we have there somewhere six to eight months of working through this uh with with the planning board depending on how how things go. I mean, you know, we need to get it right. We need it to align with what you guys want to see, but not 21 meetings. Um Okay. Yeah. Uh can I just August is typically kind of a dead I know I will not be available in August. So are we is that this is hypothetical. you know, we we got to get through May 5th, then we got to get a contract and then and then and so it's listen, I don't the town doesn't is not from my understanding, we're not saying we have to start tomorrow. So, if it starts in September or, you know, then we'll just bump things back. Okay. Right. Correct. We just need to work on our schedule and look at the planned board load uh of what's coming down the pipe. right now, you know, we only have the park. Assuming the state doesn't get rid of us, but you know, we just we're just going to have the state gets rid of us, somebody else got to do with Yeah, exactly. Yes. And we still don't know what the state's going to do with anything. So, yeah, there's always that. Yeah. Thank Thank you, Lisa. So, yes, just take that in account is is as is placeholders for like how much time this is going to take, whether we get started in July or August or September or whatever it is. You're for us like about an eightmon about a year. For us, it's about an eightmonth process on our end. Correct. When I'm turning it over to the council. That's right. Eight or nine months for planning board. That That's right. And then, you know, the last council, it took them a long time with this. I don't know if it'll be the same with this council. Um, we don't know, but um yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. Questions? Thank you all so much for for letting me go through that, and I really appreciate your feedback so far. This has been great, Wes. Thank you. Well, thanks for coming

and answering all the questions. So, one just quick comment on if we're going to do all these statistics for the new land use plan. Yeah, I've noticed that the parks plan had statistics. The ped plan had statistics. The land use plan has statistics. Can we can those statistics if we have to do a follow-up plan to this, can they be used for the follow-up plan without having to redo them? Redo all the statistics all over again. Um, so I I I mean it's been 12 years since anybody they need to be updated. Yeah. Revised. But I mean I think my hope is that the framework that we'll prepare for this it'll be shorter six chapters that it you know you can take this in 5 years and update it more simply than the one that we have right and pull from the same data sources and just change the years etc. Um I I will say quickly on on statistics we're not going to be you know the statistics will not be unfortunately 2025 data. it it lags. So, you know, our we'll have we'll be going off 2023 data, which I think is still helpful. You know, people that were in the planning process um you know, two years ago before CO that they or during CO, they couldn't really understand the implications of CO. So, it's going to be really interesting to see how the statistics have changed since the plan was updated last. But I do know there's going to be like some new citizens and new building that we're not going to be able to capture because of because of census data. But we will look at building permits and see what the difference is. Okay. I don't know if that answers your question. Yeah. All right. So, and there are outside organizations that can provide statistics for us and the commercial developers, I'm sure, have statistical

data that we could use as well. just hate to keep working that over and over. But, you know, I guess if it lags, then it may be important to get that the next year or whatever. Yeah. I mean, and it's just kind of what you I I think that you you need to update them and then it it's always like we're I'm working on a plan with town of Holly Ridge right now. Their population has quadrupled since since um we did the plan and their demographics have changed substantially and their median income as a result of that doubled because of all the all the new citizens are coming buil you know coming into new homes that are substantially more expensive than historic anyway. So it's it's important it's a big change. I don't know what the change will be with this, but we'll be able to look back and see what the what the changes are. Right. Right. So, I have a couple qu maybe these questions are for you, maybe they're for Lisa. Um, so I understand that there's a budget amount set. Was that based on the proposal from Wes? Okay. So, Wes has already done a proposal with a an amount Have we changed the scope of what you're doing? So, I mean, I I'll say the the the scope entails in terms of public engagement, community survey, two public meetings facilitated, one more facilitated, one openhouse schedule. If if it needs to be at if that needs to be added to, we can discuss. Um, and a lot of that could depend on the leg work that you all do. Sure. Instead of Wes or Ron or myself. Yeah. So, you know, we have budgeted for X number, but if you want to hold 10 different community

meetings in 10 different places, if you all take that on yourselves and then we're just um dealing with the data of that, then I don't see that being any more expense. But if you want the three of us to organize 10 community meetings and man them and deal with the data, then we're going to have an issue, right, on more fronts than money, right? Um, but to answer your question, well, I mean, what are we trading? Money or uh there's time and money. It can be stretched out. That goes into another fiscal year. Yep. If more money I mean uh Sure. So, and and all this would be, you know, like we'll be upfront about, hey, this is beyond the scope of the work, beyond the scope of work, and we can discuss. I will say, I've been doing this a long time. Um, it is important to give folks opportunity to show up in person and participate, but we get most of our participation from that survey. It's just the reality. folks, they don't, you know, unless we say that the meeting is about uh a developer is building a a 50story hotel on on on the island, it's just hard to get people to show up for a land use plan thing because it it's abstract. They don't know what what this is. You got to be Yeah. Um free beer. Yeah, free beer. Free beer. Yeah. Um you get a sticker. Listen. Anyway, so that's not to just discount and like know that it's important. I just in my experience and knowing how how typically it it it unfolds. What what I said will happen. We're going to finish this and find out we have more to do or would like to do and we'll need that repriced afterwards and relooked at in the next budget. Uh yeah, this I believe is probably Well,

like I said, the parks and wreck consultant that we hired, they had the importance of holding those community meetings offsite. The one we did have in town hall was well attended, but it was ha it happened after all of the um members had gone and sought out the public in their places, the beach, the park, the shopping centers. Yep. So, I would love if we get a room full of folks or whatever, you know, the vision plan we had. Um I don't know. I mean, we did all we did we did a fair amount of outreach on the last land use plan. Just no one showed up. And it may have also been a function of when the meeting was held. Um, we'll talk about that though. Talk about where the location is going to be, what time it is, so on and so forth. So, this is a sticky question, but are we tied to West doing the plan or is this something we should bid about or West? That's fine. I'm just asking the question. We are uh at this point we are tied to Wes because we did not go out for an RFP. Okay. If you want to go out for an RFP for to do this, um you're going to back yourselves up by about four months. I will say that Ocean Beach did go out for an RFP and their um quote that they ended up accepting was about 20,000 higher than what West Biden. Okay. All right. So, which ones are you doing currently? Which I don't know if you're allowed to disclose. Which ones are you doing currently or in basically in the same time? Are you have other ones you're working on? Are we going to overload you or? No. Uh, we're working um in Carolina Shores and Holly Ridge at the moment and figuring finishing up one um for Pender County. So So Carolina

Shores would be the most closest to us. Yep. Uh we've started that one. I think we have almost 800 responses to their community survey already. And that one just went live uh last week. Wow. That's great. Um so well I just asking the question and so you can if you want I I'll say that you know I think that it's the reason why ocean I know if you go out on the street it's typically going to be almost double what we've we've done and and I understand like Wes has been here working a while maybe needs to be someone else that looks at it but um it's certainly up to you guys. On the flip side, you've been here and you know a lot about what's going on in the town and we're kind of at the end of the county. So, it's not like, you know, a lot of consultants come down here and do a bunch of work. So, yeah. And and um then the last thing I'll say is like this is things that I know how to do. I'm I'm not here just because it's convenient for for West to do. Um that there's no one in the state that's done more coastal land use plans than me, period. that's active. So, and we're we're under contract with the COG already and have been, right, for the 15 plus years that I've been here. Well, I guess what brought up my question was that somebody else did the parks and wreck plan? Does Cognot do that kind of stuff or is it See, that's that's a perfect example. I could have put in my hat and said, "I'll I'll I'll help the town do that." But I don't I think I'd be doing a disservice to the town, right? You know, I've done parks and wreck plans in the past. Um but I I I offer better expertise to town if I'm doing a land use plan for them. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And and if

we spin this plan off into another, you know, kind of plan Yep. that involves the pedestrian and bicycle plan. Is that something you're comfortable with? I I would be help I would help put together a grant in whatever capacity, but you know, really that's another consultant that needs to do the bike ped plan. You know, if someone wants to be involved in doing another separate vision plan, I could I could participate in that and help them. But um bike and ped plans are more geared towards park and wreck consultants than land use and vision. And there's a number of consultants that's all they do. I guess the key thing like we said before I think we need if we're going to end up going that way is make sure we have the statistics we need in there that we laid the groundwork for it in this right that can then feed right if this is Wes's expertise another company or consult that what's in this plan can be pulled out and then taken to the next step not like well we got to start from a blank piece of paper because yeah that's what I was kind of getting I want to make You're re laying the foundation, let's call it. Yeah. Uh that we decide to go parks or or extra modal that the the information is here that can be drawn out, expanded on and then the detailed done. That's right. It should be our in my mind our goal. Right. And I I've done bike ped plans in the past, too. But again, you know, I I'm more of an expert in doing a land use plan, development ordinances, understanding how they work together, obviously, also doing current planning, you know, with Ron, um, and how this document plays a role in in the functioning of the town. Right. Right. I got one. And then um how often do we

during this process would we have to update the council on what we're doing and or do they not care until we just present them the plan? I would probably give them a mid mid round update. Um but I mean you guys can tell the council what we're doing anytime you want and it would be included in my town administrator report that I give monthly. Okay. Just don't tell me, man. Yeah. Way over budget. Uh I have You're done. I have one. I'm done. Uh we talked about earlier GATS and 9004. I guess a big question or a big concern is traffic all the time. I think we missed a boat on but anyway. So in this part how will that come into play here? I mean do we have interfacing with NC do on this to see because obviously we're looking our own obviously I just experienced the most wonderful thing in my life is the bridge got open. Yeah. So I've been just driving up and back just for the fun of it. Yeah. Uh so I mean it's like I just realized that one little thing one one thing was a tremendous impact on Yep. the whole area. So how bringing in so the tra the the NC dot type transportation. Yes. We'll look at existing traffic counts, any future capital improvement plans that are contemplated through GATS or or um DOT and then we'll also look at hey what is potentially our population going to be in in 30 years you know what does that mean for transportation etc and what are some big picture ideas or things that we can think about may be necessary that we know are things that

DOT should be aware of because if they want to put a circle at 9:04 in Georgetown. It's going to be the reverse of the bridge. Mhm. Everybody's going to have to go to I mean that's a huge impact on the town for that will be two years again. So and those are the things that the 904 corridor study will bring out. So that'll be done like the end of this year. Mhm. Well, the other issue too is we're still waiting for the Carolina bypass Route 31 decision and that's also going to have an impact. Well, that ties in the 904 probably, right? And that's in the Gats as well, right? In the 904. No, I didn't. Okay. Component of the Gats. Yeah. Because they're going to make a decision in terms of how far up they're going to cannibalize Route 17. and where that happens is big said that John uh John Corbett and Pete Larkin are the council members and I'm the staff and and we'll we'll cover um you know those those larger projects as well. Okay. Um you know we're not doing engineering but just for the sake of understanding how it impacts future land use they will be taken into account. Okay. Okay. It's a lot to consider and um thank you all. I don't often like to toot my own horn, so apologize for for you to um I'm not just here because I'm it's convenient for me to be. So, and that still doesn't mean that you have to hire me, but I'm just wanted to mention that. Okay. Thank you. No, we appreciate question. Yeah, we appreciate it. I have no doubts. I'm just asking the question so the public could know that hey where did all this

come from and okay I appreciate it okay motion to adjourn no we agreed to have public comment period oh we did sorry so now we have some I need to leave because I told you I had to leave at 1:30 to go coach the team and drive the team bus okay I will have to go because I will have 5 middle school kids waiting for someone to drive the bus to the gate. Oh, just note Kevin had to depart at 13. 1:33. Thanks, Kevin. No problem. I don't think it's going to be much longer. Any public period for public? Sure. Come on. Riptide's not building us a multimodal path through Sea Trail to Oyster Bay through Colony 2 to Ocean Harbor. No. Okay, sir. Yeah. Uh, state your name, uh, address, and three minutes for comments. You got it. So, Bradway, 7610 High Market Street, Sunset Beach. Um, first off, I'd like to thank you guys for the opportunity to speak here. Richard, I know you and I have not always agreed very much, but I do really appreciate you standing up and asking for participation from the community. So, thank you very much for that. You're welcome. Um, what I want to share a little bit is because I don't have exposure to y'all's process. I don't know how you've done this in the past. And so I want to better understand that, but my past years of career has been all about developing strategic plans for businesses, whether they be nonprofit or profit. And one of the things I have a concern about just starting off is I feel like we're putting the cart before the horse. I have yet to really understand what Sunset Beach's vision is for the future. I feel like you guys are developing a land plan without the council or the mayor or whoever decides it says this is where we want to be in a simple statement in the next 5 to 10 years. And I'd like to know what that is. Um I would encourage you all to think about developing a strategic plan

not only for land use. Land use should be part of that overall plan how we achieve that vision. So, I would really like to encourage you all to maybe push it back up to the council a little bit and say, "What is our vision for this town? Where are we heading?" Richard, you've heard a lot of it from me. I'm one of those people. I want the old school stuff, but I believe there's an end to it. I believe you can keep Sunset Beach the way it used to be when you bought your house 17 years ago, when I bought mine 17 years ago, and still advance to the future. It's not a one or the other. there's an and in strategy and I think you guys are selling yourselves short. So what I'm hoping you would consider is just a simple process where you establish your city or town's vision where we want to head and then understand through some simple strategic tools such as SWAT analysis, pest analysis, what's your strengths, what's your weaknesses, what's the political environment that Sunset Beach is up against? and understand those challenges before you start running off and making a plan for what the community needs to look like. And not only do that, but hold yourself accountable to getting stuff done. A strategic plan for five to seven years to me scares me to death. I know that's the way to do it, but you have to have some short-term measurements in the next 12 months to show that you're making progress or you're just going to sit around and do nothing. And so, what I would encourage you to do is follow a common strategic process. develop some strategic initiatives. You know, we want to do this for land, we want to do this for uh law enforcement, whatever you want to do. And then what you guys play the part in is what can you accomplish? And I think you brought up the economic development group dang straight. Why are we letting it happen to us? Let's get in front of it and bring people to this town. They want to be here, but we could control who comes here, I think, a little bit better than what we're doing. And so, I really want to encourage you guys to think about that.

And is on my time already? Well, I'd like to close with this if I can. So, I do have a simple vision for this town and I think it has the end statement. Sunset Beach will be a town that reflects the values of the past and preserves small town beach appeal that draws so many of you all and I to this area while preparing for the future with sustainable and manageable growth through welcoming those who desire to maintain our natural charm. So, thank you very much. Thank you, Brad. Thank you. Okay. Barring and no further public comment period, we'll need a a motion to adjourn our meeting. I so move. Anybody second? Second. Jerry can't wait. All in favor? I I no adjourn. Thanks everybody. Nice.