Historic and Environmental Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

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Third meeting of the Historic Environmental Preservation Board and ask everyone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Please remain standing to be sworn in by staff.

Thank you. If you intend to testify in this proceeding, raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you. You may be seated.

As you're being seated, please take an opportunity to check your phone. Make sure it's on do not disturb or silent. I'll ask our city attorney to give us a brief explanation about... Good afternoon.

Any person who is a lobbyist pursuant to Chapter 2, Article 6 of the City Code must register with the city clerk and comply with related city requirements for lobbyists before appearing before the Historic and Environmental Preservation Board. A person may not lobby a city official, board member, or staff member until registering Copy of the code section about lobbyists is available in the city clerk's office or online at www.unicode.com. Thank you. We have a roll call, please.

Calling Chair William Hopper.

Here.

Thank you. Calling Vice Chair Luis Prieto-Imuñoz. Here. Thank you. Calling Member Najeeb Campbell. Calling Member Christopher Cauley.

Here.

Thank you. Calling member Elvis Fuentes. Calling member Julie O'Dell. Thank you. Calling member John S. Perez.

Here.

Thank you. Calling member Robert Bob Powers. Calling member Hugh Ryan.

Here.

And calling member Jordan Trachtenberg.

Here.

Thank you. We do have quorum.

Thank you. Are there any requests for absence waivers?

No requests for absence waivers.

Okay. I didn't see any minutes for approval. Is that correct?

No, no minutes on this meeting to approve. Did we want to close online public comment? Yes. There was no online public comment. Yes, please.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any changes to the agenda?

So I would ask if it is okay with the board that we reverse the two items. I anticipate item two moving relatively quickly, and I'd rather move that one through if we can.

Any objections from the board? Okay, so ordered. Do you have any monthly updates?

So just two quick brief updates. We are currently working with HR, clearing the paths for the two positions that we are currently down within the division. I do believe I mentioned that we have a new staff member, Gabriela, who has been brought on to help us specifically with some of the guidelines and master plan processes. Also, our application period for the grants program has closed. We are currently working with Housing and Community Development on income verification for that process. And that is what I have to update you with at the moment.

Okay, thank you. Now moving to the public hearings section of the agenda. Staff will announce each item in turn. The applicant or appellant will come forward, give your name and address for the record. Then we'll have the staff report after which the applicant or the appellant may respond. And then we'll open it up to the public for comments or just comments. And I would ask you to limit your comments to two minutes or less. When everyone has had a chance to speak, I will close the public hearing and open it up to the board for questions or comments. And any interaction would be with the board and anyone they would care to address. But Just to mention to the public, you get one chance to speak, so there's no back and forth after the public hearing is closed. So our first item is number two.

Calling HEP item number two, file ID 18865, a resolution of the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board pursuant to section 23-4 of the City Code of Ordinances, approving or denying the final designation as an historic resource for the property located at approximately 128 Northeast First Avenue, Miami, Florida, 33133, further incorporating the analysis in the attached staff report entitled Exhibit A with the following findings.

Thank you. The applicant is present.

Three of me.

Is the applicant present? Yes. Please give your name and address for the record. My name is Rafael Hillis, representing Rosa Amalia LLC of 1000 Brickell Plaza, Unit 2103.

Thank you, and we'll start with the staff report.

Hi, Adrian Espinosa, Preservation Planner. Request to submit the report through the board. So, as this is the final designation of the property at 128 Northeast 1st Ave., nothing has changed in the report. However, I would like to remind the board of the applicable criteria in which The property was reviewed. The property at 128 Northeast 1st Ave is associated in a significant way with the life of a person important in the past. It exemplifies the historical, cultural, political, economic, and social trends of the community, and it portrays the environment in an era of history characterized by one or more distinctive architectural styles. And I'd also like to remind the board that the applicant is intending to restore features and materials that the building historically had, the roof gable and parapet with the decorative vent, the sills, the signage, the awnings, the spherical light fixtures, the extension of the wall and parapet at the corners, and glass transom windows at the storefronts. The second and third floor windows are to be restored to a historic appearance but are not proposed to be the original awning type on top of the hung sash. In conclusion, staff finds that this request for final evaluation of the historic designation of the property at 128 Northeast First Avenue complies with the applicable criteria, again, 1, 3, and 4, as stipulated in Section 23-4. Recommendation pursuant to Section 23-4A of the City of Miami Code as amended, and the Secretary of Interior Standards Historic Preservation Staff recommends that the final evaluation for the designation of the property at 128 Northeast First Avenue be approved.

Thank you. Is there anything you'd like to add to the staff report?

No, I mean, it's nice to see you again. I think you remember the project from the first time around. It's lost almost all of its historical significance and architectural significance due to the previous owner. We are willing to undergo the process to restore all of that and bring it as close as possible to what it used to be when it was originally built in the 1920s.

And we're looking forward to the process.

Yeah.

Thank you. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this item? Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing and open it up to the board for questions, comments, or a motion.

I'd like to make a motion. Go ahead. I'd like to make a motion to approve the designation of the property located at 128 Northeast 1st Avenue.

Second. There's a motion and a second. Any discussion on the motion? We have a roll call, please.

Calling member Hugh Ryan. Yes. Thank you. Calling member Jordan Trachtenberg. Yes. Thank you. Calling member John Perez. Yes. Calling member Julie O'Dell. Yes. Calling member Christopher Cauley. Yes. Calling member Louis, I'm sorry, calling vice chair Louis Prieto-Imuñoz. Yes. And calling chair William Hopper. Yes. This passes by a vote of seven to zero. I would also like to announce the arrival of member Robert Powers. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a nice one. You too.

Please note that all, I'm sorry, all items are final unless appealed to the hearing board's office within 15 days. Calling file help item number one. This would be file ID 17355, a resolution of the Miami Historic, Environmental, and Preservation Board pursuant to section 17-33, subsection A2 of the City of the Code of Ordinances, approving or denying a special certificate of approval for the removal of trees and new construction within Environmental Preservation District, number 74, for the property located approximately at 3939 Leafy Way, Miami, Florida, 33133, further incorporating the findings in the analysis attached herein as Exhibit A.

And is the applicant's attorney present?

Yes, good afternoon, Mr. Chair, Board of Members, Carlos Diaz with offices at 333 Southeast 2nd Avenue, here on behalf of the applicant.

Thank you, and we'll start with the staff report. Great. Adrian Espinosa, Preservation Planner. So just, I'd like to read into the record a memorandum. So this memorandum for the record is to correct a Scrivener's error made in the staff analysis report for the subject property at 3939 Leafy Way in the Special Certificate of Approval application under PZ2418266. The following is a sentence found in the conclusion section of the report. In the second paragraph, second sentence, quote, also with over 90% of the trees on site being removed, it is not clear how the applicant has demonstrated a good faith effort to redesign the project in a manner that protects the tree cluster, end quote. The sentience should be outright removed from the staff analysis report. And I'd like to submit the staff analysis through the board. Okay, thank you. And I'm just going to go ahead and I'm sure we're all familiar.

Did you give a comment to the attorney? Sorry? Yes.

Yeah, so I'm just going to go ahead and read the analysis that we came up with for this time around. The applicant first presented their proposal to the HEP Board at the May 6, 2025 meeting. HEP staff recommended that all royal palms be retained or replaced on the property, though they asserted this was not viable for many of the royal palms. The HEP Board granted a deferral and recommended the applicant to come back with a different plan that considered the unique characteristics of the Environmental Preservation District and provided for more complete mitigation of the tree removal without having to substitute new planting with tree trust contributions. The applicant was also granted a deferral at the following June and July HEP Board meetings. The applicant returned for the February 2026 HEP Board meeting and again requested a deferral. Pursuant to Chapter 17, Section 31 of the City of Miami Code of Ordinances, as amended, the Preservation Office recommends denial of the specialist certificate of approval for a new construction at 3939 Leafy Way for the following reasons. So the city code under chapter 17-31B states that an environmental preservation district may be designated for having natural or man-made environmental features. The features present at 3939 Leafy Way is the cluster of trees with extensive canopy. It is a cluster of trees in the canopy they collectively form, which is the character defining feature of the environmental preservation district at this property. The cluster of trees occupies the southern and eastern portions of the property. Most of the trees in the cluster and the area they occupy are proposed to be removed for redevelopment. While it is acknowledged that the proposed removals are mostly understory growths in poor condition under the size threshold or of a non-regulated species, it is a cluster as a whole which forms a significant landscape feature. It is acknowledged that this landscape feature is not comprised entirely of regulated trees, but it has been present on the property since at least 1970. Because of its age, the cluster is a dynamic system which reasonably has undergone periods of ecological succession. Unlike the built environment, these features are not static. Even if the current composition of trees differed historically, staff conclude that a substantial canopy has existed along the south and east side of the property since at least 1970, where the following aerial photographs show the property half covered with foliage. That'll be figure three.

Adrian, if I can ask you to pause for one second. Melanie, can we make sure that Mr. Powers is actually sworn in?

Okay, do you swear or affirm the testimony you will give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you.

Thank you. So because of its age, the, I said that. Okay, in these photographs, the property shown was included in the Environmental Preservation District because of its dense foliage. To significantly reduce the cluster would undermine its contributions to the district. The proposal has remained largely unchanged since the application first came for review by the head department. The environmental preservation districts provide for the preservation and protection of trees and other significant landscape features and to encourage design and development activity which is sensitive to the natural landscape character of the site. This current design is not site responsive to the significant landscape feature of this environmental preservation district. The proposed plan will fragment the significant landscape features and ultimately erode the integrity of the environmental preservation district. So we recommend, let me just go to the last page here. Let's finish up the conclusion. The application has demonstrated partial compliance with Chapter 17, entitled Environmental Preservation of the City of Miami Code of Ordinances, and though some of the tree removals can be approved, staff finds that removal of the significant landscape feature of the tree cluster does not sufficiently take into consideration the protected status of the Environmental Preservation District Number 74 at 3939 Leafy Way. The proposed removals will result in a significant loss to the character of the environmental district and especially the subject property. Furthermore, even though the soil septic tank and drain field limit the area where trees can be replanted, other areas of the property which could accommodate trees were chosen to incorporate the proposed house pool and covered terrace. The Historic and Environmental Preservation Board should therefore consider that although most of the trees proposed for removal are not native, they are not being replaced in kind by native trees to retain the tree cluster. Lastly, staff do not agree that removal of trees at the scale proposed is substantiated by the claim that the current ground cover unreasonably restricts the intended use of the property. These trees have been present on the single family lot for 100 years. along with a home and pool, staff find that the effect of the proposed project on the environmental district would be lessened by accommodating the significant landscape cluster of trees feature by introducing new native regulation size trees and designing around the clusters. Pursuant to 236.2, well, that should read 31.

I'd like to request a change.

Yeah, so the recommendation should stay pursuant to Section 17-31 of the City of Miami Code as amended, and the Secretary of Interior Standards and Planning Department recommends denial.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, Councillor.

We asked the IT gods to jump in.

They should be able to switch it over once you've got it plugged in.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, board members. Carlos Diaz with offices at 333 Southeast 2nd Avenue. While the presentation comes up, with me today are the property owners, Barbara and Dylan. We're also joined by landscape architects, Devin Cejas and Bud Martin. Thank you. Did you start? Yeah, it's on.

IT should be able to bring yours up. Okay. Let me run to the back. All right.

We'll not hold this time against you. I can get started, if you like, in the meantime. Actually, I have copies of the presentations. If I can pass them around, then you can all follow along while they come up with the...

Okay.

Or we can wait. Up to you.

Go ahead.

So Barbara and Dylan were the property owners, bought this property to build their long-term home, and I think it's coming up now, to build a long-term home for their young family. They fell in love with leafy way because of its canopy and character. Unfortunately, the prior consultant submitted a building permit application that proposed removal of 90% of the trees on site. because, as they told the owners at the time, removal was cheaper than relocation or preservation. Staff reviewed that application and recommended approval on the condition that the healthy Royal Palms be removed and relocated. Just days after that first hearing, Dylan and Barbara reached out to me and asked if I could get involved and assist them in this matter. I advised them that we should defer the application so we could carefully study the environmental preservation district rules and the staff recommendation. We then returned with a plan that preserved or relocated the healthy Royal Palms as recommended by staff. At that hearing, we received additional feedback from this board. So we went back again, and this time completely redesigned the plans to meet the EPD criteria and regulations. Before I walk through the revisions, I need to address the staff recommendation, which talks about a cluster of trees. A tree is actually a defined term in the city code based on size and species. I think many of you are familiar with the definitions. The staff analysis itself characterizes the clustered vegetation on this site as, and I quote, understory growth, below the size threshold, and consisting of non-regulated species or non-trees. Under the plain language of the code, vegetation that does not qualify as a tree cannot collectively become a cluster of trees. I think we would all agree, and you can see here what we're talking about on the left, which is things that are not trees, other vegetation, and then on the right, you see things that are trees. On this property, there are 42 trees as defined in the city code, and that is what is before the board today. Now, I know the board wants to make a fully informed decision, so I want to tell you that our proposed plan goes beyond regulated trees and improves the overall vegetation on the property, including things that are non-trees, other vegetation like small Simpson stoppers and crabwood and other vegetation that eventually does grow into trees, but they're not trees. So we're not calling the vegetation that's on site today a tree, and we're not calling the vegetation that we're proposing that's not a tree, a tree. Let's move on to the actual applications. I'll start with the numbers because I think they tell the full story here. The original application that was presented to this board proposed removal of 90% of the trees on site. The application before you today preserves 90% of the trees. The original application reduced the number of trees from 42 down to 25. The application today maintains that number of trees at 42. Mr. Prieto and Munoza brought up the point of deficit, rightly so, at the first meeting, the mitigation deficit. That original application had a mitigation deficit of 30 trees. Today, that mitigation is zero. More importantly, the last point, the original application actually reduced the canopy coverage on site. The proposed application today increases canopy coverage from what exists on the property today and from what was originally proposed. Therefore, this application is a measurably, quantifiably different application improvement in terms of quality and quantity of trees. I spoke about the EPD regulations and the significant improvements between the original application and the current one. Now let's walk through the plans. Placement of the trees on this side is not arbitrary or seeking to maximize every inch of the lot, but instead responds primarily to three factors. The first one being the most important tree on the site, this mature live oak on the western side of the lot, which you can see here in green. As you can imagine, that tree has a substantial root protection zone and represents the most significant canopy on the site. So the house was designed around this location. specimen tree. In practical terms, the footprint of the house was pushed east in order to preserve the live oaks root system. Now, the eastern portion of the lot is where many of the existing palms are located, which obviously created a conflict. That conflict was resolved by relocating those palms, you see here on the left in blue, to the northern portion of the lot where the prior home was located, and you can see it in blue there, where they're relocated from the left to the right, the proposed plan. This relocation allowed us to consolidate and preserve the palms in a cohesive landscape area, a cluster, if you will, rather than lose them. It is also important to note that four of the five trees being removed, there's only five trees being removed from this application, are also located on that eastern portion of the property. And you'll see there is two royal palms and two rather small areca palms. Those trees, the arborists reviewed them, and they were not good candidates for relocation, so unfortunately we have to remove them. Those are the only five trees being removed on the property. The second major factor driving the layout of the home is Miami 21. The prior home on the lot was oriented toward Kent Court in the rear. However, under current zoning regulations, a new building must front the primary street, which is Leafy Way. That requirement shifted the building envelope forward. As a result, the rear of the lot was freed up. Rather than expand the building footprint into that area, we kept it as a green space with trees. Now, the third factor driving the layout of this home is the septic tank and the drain field, which, through their regulations, reduce the area where trees can survive. In fact, in speaking with some of our neighbors, one of them lost a beautiful live oak recently when they had to replace their septic tank system. Here, the trees will not be lost, but will be relocated from the front of the lot to the western portion right behind the live oak where they can thrive. And you can see there the blue trees on the left, and then in green is where they're being relocated. Those are the same trees. Hopefully the county brings sewer to this area soon, and we can plant even more trees. Trust me, we'd rather trust about tree canopy than about septic tanks. One other point of the design, and this is not regulated by the EPD, but it is the second floor of the house. We're proposing some greenery there as well. We're planting some palms on that second floor to soften the architecture of the house and keep with the green theme of the neighborhood. Now, in addition to preserving 90% of the trees on site, the new design incorporates additional canopy trees, including two sizable live oaks in front of the property, which will strengthen the leafy character of Leafy Way. The proposed plan doesn't just preserve the overall canopy compared to the existing conditions, but actually enhances it. And you can see here the comparison about canopy. On the left, you see the existing canopy, which is 11,092 square feet. And on the right, you see the proposed canopy at time of planting, which is 11,642 square feet. So we're increasing the tree canopy on the site. Obviously, that's at planting. Once time passes, that canopy will increase even more. Now, as requested by this board, we went back and redesigned the plan, not simply to meet the minimum code requirements, but to exceed them. The proposal before you today exceeds the minimum code requirements for number of trees, number of palms, number of native trees, number of street trees, number of shrubs, open space, and lot coverage. And this is not just our opinion. I would like to pass into the record an email we received this morning from Professor Christopher Barolotto, who's here in the audience, who is the director of FIU's International Botany Center of the Kampong. We first met Professor Barolotto during our initial neighbor meetings, as he was very concerned about the initial original proposal. After reviewing this most recent proposal, He concludes that the application is a clear improvement which goes far beyond that required by current city rules and that the canopy area proposed will likely grow beyond the original canopy within five years of development. Those are not my words. They're not the words of our professional team. This is an independent scientific expert's opinion on this application. Now, to conclude, the application before you today complies with the criteria in Chapter 17 and reflects a thoughtful balance between new development and environmental preservation by preserving 90% of the trees on site, maintaining the total number of trees on the property, increasing the overall canopy, and exceeding the applicable minimum code requirements. This is not the same application that was originally filed. This is a carefully redesigned plan that responds to staff, our neighbor, and these boards' comments and feedback. With that, I'll turn it over to Dylan and Barbara, who will say a few words about the home that they propose to build here and answer any questions you all may have. Thank you.

Please give your name and address for the record first.

Dylan and Barbara Fay, 3939 Leafy Way.

Hello, good afternoon, HEP Board and residents of Coconut Grove. My name is Dylan Fay. This is my wife, Barbara. We both moved to Coconut Grove four years ago, not knowing a single person here. I still remember driving around in a rental car, and we entered the lush canopy of Coconut Grove. We looked at each other. We said, this is it. This is our new home. We ended up living on Leafy Way for over three years. During that time, we welcomed our two daughters, Harper and Annabelle, into the world. Some of our happiest memories are simple ones. Long walks under the trees, peacocks crossing the street, pushing a stroller through the shade. Leafy Way and its canopy is not just scenery to us, it's part of our family story. We completely agree with the community and board's desire to protect what makes the Grove distinct and special from other communities in Miami. Tree Canopy is the soul of this neighborhood. And I'll admit, when we first submitted plans for our future home, we didn't fully understand what was being proposed in terms of canopy. We were told the trees on site were not quality trees and that removal would be easier and less expensive than preservation. However, after speaking with the community, neighbors and other experts and the history of the neighborhood, we understand that that approach was completely wrong. Since getting that feedback nearly nine months ago, we made the decision to start over. We went back to the drawing board. I think Carlos did a great job of articulating that journey. I think today in numbers we're showing we're aiming to preserve over 90% of the existing trees. We aim to improve and actually grow the total canopy over a three to five period. Only five trees are being proposed to be removed and being replaced with native species, oaks and others as mentioned by Carlos and our team. It's meant a lot to us to see the evolution of this plan, talking with individuals, engaging with the scientific community, Chris, neighbors, and others. Our daughters are enrolled in preschool just blocks away from our home. This neighborhood is already a very special part of their children childhood, and as well as our lives. We look forward to being settled again on Leafy Way, walking under the trees, seeing our neighbors, and being able to stroll into the grove. We are deeply grateful for your time, your guidance, and patience through this process. We respectfully ask that you support so we can move forward and build a home that reflects the character of this neighborhood and raise our family once again under the canopy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, with that, we conclude our presentation and remain to answer any questions you may have. We'll save some time for rebuttal if needed. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there members of the public who wish to speak on this item? Please come forward to the microphone and give your name and address for the record. No one wants to speak? Yes, thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Jesse Capote. I am on 3965 Leafy Way, adjacent to the applicant's property. We have been here to the first meeting and several deferrals, so we're very well in tune with what's being proposed and what's being done. From the very beginning, we've told everyone that we've talked to, including the applicant, their advisors, that for us, really, there was only two issues here. One, the canopy, protecting the canopy. And two, there's concern about flooding. But specifically with the canopy, Leafy Way is about canopy. I'm not an expert. I'm not an arborist. I can't, by looking at plans, tell you whether... what's proposed versus what's there now is gonna replace canopy or not. I do commend them for continuing to try to put together something that does that, but at the end of the day, I think it's really about canopy and how much of it can be preserved. That is really what the street wants more than anything. And so we're trusting that the board, in its expertise, can review along with the staff and decide what's best in terms of that.

Thank you. Yes, go ahead.

Hello, my name's Allison O'Keefe. I live at 3975 Leafy Way. I'm two lots away from this project. And while we welcome a new beautiful home and our new neighbor, I have concerns that the size of the house and the hardscape added together means all those, the numbers of trees are moved around the perimeter. And I don't know if just having it around the perimeter really preserves the canopy feel that we So that's my main concern.

Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. Please give us your name and address. I graduated Carrollton.

Please give us your name and address for the record.

My name is Chris Cole.

And your address?

I am a neighbor.

Your address?

Yes, sir.

We have to have the address for the record.

I don't hear very well. We need your address. My address is 3782 Leafy Way. Okay. I graduated Carrollton when 1984 was in the future. So I've been around a long time in Coconut Grove. And if it wasn't because of people like you, we would be a lot worse off. I never thought that I would be on the side that I'm gonna be today. But I'm gonna be on the side of letting these people build their house. Because I have seen the process and they have done everything they know how to comply. So, since I am a big believer in property rights and in applying the law equally to everyone, I look at my neighbors' gardens. For example, Wes and Alexis. An amazing garden. I walk by, it's incredible.

It's an honor to have them, to do what they've done.

My other two neighbors, they're fine, but if you look at the canopy that they've done, versus what we all have, including me, it's no comparison. And I think just as justice as an equal application to the law and to preserve property rights, which are so important for us, they should be given a chance by this board without having to appeal to anything else to build their home. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

Good afternoon. My name is Lauren Cole. I also reside at 3782 Leafy Way. That was my sister. And I'm here to speak on behalf of the project as well. I can tell you I've known the family now for four years. And I know that they've developed other real estate for themselves here in the area. And they are very specific about how they want it done and how beautiful the houses are and the landscaping. And I think that they are going to contribute to the street. I don't think it's going to take away from the street. Interestingly enough, some of the people that criticize it don't have a huge canopy on their property either. And I think that if we are going to do canopy, we should do it on all of the properties. And so I am in support of this project because I think they are going to contribute and I think they should be treated equally and not differently than other people who have built other houses on that street. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir.

Hello, everyone. Chris Baralotto, 3752 Kamkwadav. I was cited in the presentation. I just want to clarify on this, and I want to speak on behalf of reason and data. In this case, I really don't agree with the city, and I wish the city would pay this much attention to the dozens of permit applications I review every week. And I think that in this particular case, we've gone through a process And I've done analyses on everything that's been submitted. I use data that we've collected in citizen science research projects on the ecological benefits of trees and their growth rates to project the impact of development on every project. And in this case, I agree there's some spatial issues with this cluster of trees, but that's never been a criterion that I've heard any other property held to. I think in this case, those trees are all non-native palms, some of which don't even meet the proper size, and they're over-mitigated for by the mitigation plan that's been revised on multiple occasions. And so when I run the analyses, the data are very clear that this particular plan is now improving the canopy and it's maintaining the canopy on Leafy Way, and I want that to be clear, that data should be the standard to which we hold ourselves in these cases, and I hope we use the same criteria on every case, and it doesn't have to come before this board. Otherwise, you'd have a much deeper agenda on days like today. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak on this item? Now, before I close the public hearing... Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing and open it up to the board for questions or comments. Beginning with my Vice Chair.

Thank you, Dr. Hubbard. Firstly, I'd like to disclose that I was texted by the applicant's attorney prior to this meeting offering a preview of the presentation. I declined requesting to see it here, but just linking that disclosure. I think I have quite a few questions, but before I get into the meat of it, am I wrong in seeing that the public, well, the agenda, the published agenda drawings that link to this project, are those the previous version or are those the current version? Because the version that I'm seeing, at least what I have as, let's call it appendix C drawings, 17355 drawings, those show the... Previous landscape plans that include mitigation component. I'm gathering that that is no longer the up-to-date version.

That is not the up-to-date version. I think there might be both versions may have been published just because, you know, this application has been going for a few iterations, but it should have been labeled March 2026 plans, which the mitigation is zero.

It's the only one that's labeled drawings. Oh, wait, no, I see supplemental drawings March 2026. I see that.

Okay, that's clear.

Carlos, maybe if we could just, since you have that and you have these visual aids, could you just walk us through a side-by-side comparison of how the architecture changed between what was submitted last year and what is currently being proposed?

Yeah, definitely we can do that. So we now have a side-by-side of the prior proposal, but we have a side-by-side of the existing conditions and what we're proposing now. In terms of the changes to The actual architectures...

Sorry, before you start, just from my own sense. So left and right, the difference is the tree disposition plan, not the foot plant of the property, correct?

No, there was... Well, this is the property a lot as it is, right? I see. Yeah, in terms of the prior plan, I think the pool deck was reduced both from the west and from the north. It's slightly smaller now. And that's why there's more planting... back there in that area, and we are allowed to have more trees on this side as well. And then the other change from the, in terms of the plant, where, again, there's a lot of the relocation not happening here, and we added two additional trees here in the pool deck area, so most of the changes occur around the pool deck, yes.

Okay, but the structure itself hasn't substantially changed from the previous?

Correct, the structure itself has not substantially changed. It's just been relocated to the southeast of the property, is that? Correct. We're preserving the trees by, and you can see here, A lot of it. And to me, if you take this property, which is the existing landscape and the existing trees you see on the left, if you flip this around in a 180 direction, you basically end up with the same result. And that is because the existing house, or the house that was there before, was on the rear of the lot, which is the area that you see in white. And then by flipping that around, which is what Miami 21 forced us to do, and the live oak, you end up with the house on the other side of the lot. That's why it's, in terms of Canopy is very similar because we're preserving everything that's on site. We're just shifting it slightly. I see that. You can see it here as well.

With... So... So, in fact, what you're sort of saying is that this could have been done from the onset. It was just a matter of relocating the property around. There was always room.

Right. There's some engineering changes around, like, the drain field, and those things had to be studied closer. I think, just to be honest, right now, I think the owners mentioned that they didn't know about the EPD regulations necessarily. They hired a team, and there was, like, removal. That's cheaper than moving trees around. But we came here. They spoke with me. They spoke with the neighbors. We said, okay, canopies, what matters? Canopies, we want to preserve. We want to preserve what's there. And that's what's being done now in this plan, right? That's what originally we're removing 90% of the trees, and now we're preserving over 90% of the trees on site and adding additional trees.

So in your presentation, you have a slide, I think you were just on it, but it talks about existing canopy versus proposed canopy percentages. And you have, I think, 11,000-something, and now it's 11,600, which is proposed. I'm noting that in the letter from Dr. Baralotto, he comments that the removal of less than 10% of the canopy. So that's... Is that just a slight confusion?

I think he can speak with that. I think it might be a difference between their scientific approach as opposed to how the city code measures canopy. I think, and he's here, you can ask him, but I think he may have been measuring some of those understory growth as well, which are not trees.

Maybe I should direct my question to him.

Yeah.

Doctor, if you wouldn't mind answering why. So for your analysis, well, the applicant is asserting that the existing canopy is 11,000 some odd square feet. They're saying it's 11,600. You're saying a loss of 10%. So there's a slight variability there, if you wouldn't mind elaborating on your approach.

It's just a temporal needle on there. So what I do in an analysis is I look what was there, what's going to be there after the first intervention, then what's going to be there after the planting and mitigation, and then how it will grow through time. And so I was referring to a step that would be intermediate between existing and proposed, which is after removals and relocation have occurred, but prior to planting occurring. And that's the distinction here. Okay? So your 10% is pre-mitigation? Pre-mitigation. Post-mitigation, it's, from my estimates, it was very close to what it was before, around 99%. But I use an index that includes both canopy area, growth of the tree and height as a multi-dimensional metric of ecological benefits.

If you wouldn't mind my taking a little bit of a role of an interlocutor through this, because you have a perspective that I'm curious to understand a bit further. So as you understand, this is an environmental conservation district, which is slightly different from the rest of the city. I think coming to your previous comment about the city's attention on this particular project, I think it stems from the fact that there is an additional layer was placed on this and I think it's great that it was and I think to anybody here who's preservation minded we should all think through what we can do with our own properties and what sort of designations we can apply on to them to ensure that we add to the higher layers of regulatory standard that should be applied to these but coming back to that point it's the continuity of the canopy and it's the cluster of the canopy I mean I think there is a certain ecological element here that is inevitably lost by simply creating a large structure of our lot that's not currently covered. Would you mind giving your views on why you're supportive despite that inevitable ecological loss?

Well, I don't see it as an ecological loss when you take non-native palm species off and replace them with native hardwood species that are going to grow cannabis. I think all of those species in the cluster are either Washingtonia robustas or Tychospermas or Pseudophoenixes, all of which are non-native palm species, one of which is moving towards being invasive. And so I think that we need to consider this not just from the allometry, the structural geometry of what's there, but also the composition of the species that are there when we consider environmental preservation. And I think the movement towards converting this canopy to a more native hammock canopy is something that should be taken into consideration as well. And during the meetings with the community, I think they've gone to great lengths to convert this. Some of the suggestions we made in those community meetings were taken into consideration to make that compositional transition.

Dr. Barlow, how did you come into this project?

I am vice chair of the coconut grove village council and I review all the tree permits in coconut grove and when neighbors want to file appeals they generally contact me and so I was brought into this and I followed this from the beginning and participated in community meetings but I'm completely independent doing this as public service thank you Carlos maybe you could expand on what he just said with regard to the community meetings if you could give us a bit of a taste of what happened between March of 25 and today

Right. So originally, again, I was not involved in the original application, but I was hired to come in at the first hearing. We deferred, met with some of the neighbors at that point. We had a meeting following up that just to hear the neighbors, see what the concern was. Because again, the original plan was not a great plan. I think we'll all admit that. Chris was at this meeting with the neighbors and he was an expert. So we kind of followed his guidance on that. However, At that point, the staff recommendation was for approval as long as we relocated the 14 healthy royal palms. So we came back to the board one more time. All we were doing is those royal palms. Then we heard from the board, even from the neighbors, say, listen, this is not only about royal palms. We care about canopy. We care about the number of trees. So we're like, OK, we need to take a step back. We need to take longer time, analyze this deeper. So since then, we've had many individual meetings with neighbors, group meetings as recent as, I'll say, about a week or two weeks ago. So we've been meeting with the neighbors and trying to hear their concerns and amend the plans accordingly. I think that's what you see here in the reaction today. Thank you. I have no further questions at this time, Dr. Alvaro.

Thank you. Mr. Perez, any questions? Mr. Ryan?

Yeah, a few questions. The staff analysis, was that for the original or the revised application? Yeah, it's for the revised.

Okay, all right. If you have another follow-up.

Okay, I just want to make sure. And the setback, original setback, was there access from Kent Court?

In the original plan that we're proposing, no, there was no access. There's no access to Kent Court?

Yeah. Okay, and where was the septic tank originally?

It was also on the front.

So it's going to stay in the front. Yeah. And so with the new Miami 21 requirements, it has to face the setback. No matter what is built there, it has to be where the front of this building is, which is right on top of the cluster of Royal Palms. Exactly right. So regardless of what it is and the size of the house, the setback is requiring it to be there.

Closer to the street, correct. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay, those are my only concerns. So the subject hangs out front, so the access, you can't plan much over that, I know that. And that's it.

Mr. Cawley? Yes, thanks very much, Carlos. And thanks for the very detailed presentation, and I think it's great to have the doctor here, the professor here as well, to lend that insight. There's a lot of information online. There's an arborist report. There's the old plans. There's the new plans. But from reviewing them, it seems to me that your team has done everything it can to really make a huge difference from what was previously proposed to what's proposed now. I mean, it seems like you're going through the motions of relocating all of You know you're preserving as much canopy on site as you possibly can and you're removing canopy that in certain conditions like in the county for example you'd be required to remove by code like the Washington palms and some of the other things right so. I mean in you presented a lot of information here and so I mean generally speaking. because we're here to talk about the landscape and the palms and the palm canopy. It seems to me that you guys have done an outstanding job of trying to work with the community and find the best scenario here. And then the final thing I would say would follow up with what Mr. Ryan mentioned, that there's also the utilities. There's the drain fields and all of the other infrastructure that's required to make property usable. And in this case, right, having that drain field in the front, and if that's the new code, I mean, you know, that has a big impact on everything. But final thing I'll say is it seems like you're keeping a really nice large live oak tree, which I think is really important. And so generally speaking, I would just say thank you for all this great information and it seems like you're in the right track. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, can I add one thing?

Yes, sir. Real quick.

I did see that the silver palm, which survived, there's a silver palm out of like over 100 trees there are, but it's being removed. And I can tell you, I have, in my Miami history papers, I have a photo of leafy way i believe from the 30s and it was a pine forest so um it wasn't what it is today i mean most of the trees in the grove were were exotics added over over time but it was a pine tree forest like you'd see in the everglades so the silver palm is a remnant and i'm just saying that i have bad news so apparently it was a mistake in the arborist report it was a thatch palm oh cool well Maybe you can throw a silver palm in there for fun. It's not going to get enough sun, so don't worry about it. But I just wanted to, I just remembered, I mean, this is recently, all this exotic palm stuff is, you know, the last 70 years, six years.

Mr. Powers.

Good afternoon. My two concerns are the oak tree and the proximity of the building to the oak tree. And kudos to saving as much of it as you can. And the fact that you didn't have any opposition, because we mostly have opposition that comes to these things. So Carlos, because I know how they build houses, are you guys doing pin pilings around that oak tree so that you don't disturb its roots?

I think that's a great question, Mr. Powers. And one of the things that came up during the, this light bulb has given the team a lot of work, right? Because they wanted to save it. Originally, somebody said it was in poor condition. They went in and they basically did like a full analysis to make sure it was in good condition, it could remain. So the foundations on that side are deep foundations to avoid interfering with the root system to make sure it survives.

Right, because if you recall, we had people come here And we actually told them to go buy another lot instead of destroying the tree in the middle of their property, which gave that street its entire character. So kudos to you. But that is the thing that 90% of these builders could get around a lot of this crap if they just used pin pilings. And at this stage of the game, because of the expense of concrete, it's cheaper. And it's also more innovative, to be very honest with you. Like, you're not ripping up all the surrounding ground to put in pilings on a two-story property. I mean, so I just don't understand why they do that and why that is not something that people, especially this board and the builders that are on it, like, insist. Like, if you're going to build in a heavily densely wooded area, we're not going to allow you to put in that type of a... You know how I fight this. You know me personally. I just don't like it at all. And I don't care about the palms or whatever. Lush and all the rest of that, and I don't disagree with my guy down here, how much the biological diversity has altered and changed South Florida. There's no two ways about it. I was in the landscaping business in the 70s and 80s when you couldn't even find native landscaping material. You had to come all the way down to Gantz Tropical Greenery and some of these people who grew stuff in cans to find native plant material. So I'm more than familiar with all that. I would advise you to be a little bit more biodiverse with all your native plantings because there are so many fabulous Florida native plants that'll grow in a very, as an understory environment. And then you throw in all your exotics as just something to throw in the color. Because even though we're called Florida, there's very few plants natively that flower that look really kind of fascinating, unless you have a microscope. Thank you. That's all I have.

Ms. Odell?

So I think that this plan is a heck of a lot better than the last one. I think you guys have worked really hard to get this. And I'm gonna talk about the oak tree, because we are in the process at my house of going through an oak tree situation where we're planting. And I do know that the root structure, you can see in the root structure the new hardwood trees, if you're putting two oak trees on the street, right,

Yeah, that's correct.

Okay, and there's a septic system right there, correct?

Slightly further back, so these are on the street right now. I think Mr. Ryan is the one that brought that up. In the Grove, you don't have sidewalks, so you do have an opportunity to plant on the street.

Right, but you know how roots are, right? And you know how septic tanks are moisture, and roots are going for moisture any which way they can go. Having been through this situation scenario recently, we had to change out our drain field. And that is something, not only that it would interfere with your septic tank here, but it probably would interfere with the whole house. I mean, depending if you're building slab, right? So that's something to consider. Because the concrete with the root system is really, it's something to really consider. And the house is taking up most of, you've got the trees, no doubt. But those hardwood trees have such a root structure that will destroy a house. And the house is pretty big on the whole lot. So I'm just saying, as Bob would say. But I think it's really something to consider.

Thank you. Mr. Trachtenberg? No further comments? Anyone else have any minutes? Mr. Perez.

I'm a little late to this project since I joined the board after this went through its initial. Lucky you. But it seems like the applicant has worked with, you know, they've worked on the project, so certainly based on what I see, I appreciate that. I want to echo some of the things that were said here. I certainly appreciate the preservation of this large oak tree, which would be impossible to replace. And to my colleague Bob, helical piles or pin piles are not difficult to install. They're not costly. We do this on projects. So that's definitely something that... I wouldn't really accept for, I'm not saying anybody's saying that here, but in the future I wouldn't accept anybody saying that it's too complicated because it is a very simple procedure and it certainly helps in preserving trees. I appreciate the proposing of the two live oaks in the front. I understand the concern. I think my colleague Chris would probably be better qualified proposing something but maybe some sort of a root barrier might be in order i don't know if that does anything to to really push back maybe the roots of a live oak and um and then last i appreciate the use of natives for the for the mitigation i mean i'm a huge fan of native trees so thank you thank you yes yes mr powers yeah so

Like there are so many other trees that could go in there that are really great trees, especially if it's in the front of a house. And if there weren't oak trees originally there that came down, were there oak trees originally on that block or no? No, okay. So there's so many other trees that could be planted that would alleviate some of your issues with your, because it is, she's absolutely right. I mean, those oak trees are gonna go right for that and the next thing you know, five years from now, maybe even 10 years from now, you'll be having to put in, hopefully you'll have sewer.

That's what I was going to say.

Hopefully you'll have, well, you know, but, you know, listen, the county has been saying that horse shit for 30 years that they were going to put in things. So, like, you know, whatever. And now you have a commissioner who just became mayor who should have been doing that anyway, who didn't do it while she was there. So, and the county is the one who really decides on how that's going to play out. The only thing I'm telling you is this, is that There are so many stoppers, Dahoon Holly, East Palatka Holly, all these trees that are native trees that can be planted there that will be beautiful trees on that boulevard that will not have the type of root system that those oaks will have. So that's all I'm saying to you because I did, and I have one of the largest East Palatka trees in my yard because I planted it 30 years ago and it's a big tree now, but not... to the point where it's problematic for the foundation of the house or anything like that, because it doesn't have that type of a roof root structure, which is what you find out when you're in this business as Mr. Colley and I both know, because that's what we did for a living. So, you know, we have to be aware of that kind of stuff, but there's so many trees that will a bus stick. That's another great tree that nobody even plants another. Well, I wouldn't even go with gumbo limbo because of the oil, but there are some native trees have their issues too. OK, but I'm just saying so there's a lot to choose from. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.

Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Anyone ready with a motion?

I was going to let the vice chair. You're going to make a motion or what are you going to do here? Come on.

Is your motion to ask me to make a motion?

Well, I just figured you would do it, because you always do it, and somebody just seconds it.

I mean, come on already. I'm still thinking through this, but I'm still deliberating. But by all means, you should move if you feel the urge to move. feel the urge to move.

Don't say it like that. I'd like to make the motion that we accept the issue as amended. The only thing I would ask you to do is to change the oak trees in the front to some other type of a tree. That would be my only recommendation. That's my motion.

There's a motion to approve with a recommendation to change the oak trees in the front. Is that correct?

Questions?

Is there a second to the motion?

Second.

Any questions on the motion? Yes, Mr. Perez.

What species? Is this something where they would choose another species and they would be handled administratively?

Let me clarify. Is this a recommendation or are you making it a condition?

I'll make it a condition.

Okay, so it would be a condition to replace the two proposed live oak trees at the front with a different native... Florida native that's less invasive.

Which can be determined by... You can determine it by historic preservation.

So if it's the ones on the right-of-way, we actually wouldn't be reviewing for those? That would be environmental resources. Say that again? If it's the ones that are outside of the property boundaries along the right-of-way, HEP would not be reviewing for those.

Yeah, so it would be as confirmed by Environmental Resources. I mean, they're the expert on trees, right? So if you don't have native trees.

That would be approvable by Environmental Resources.

There you go.

So moved.

Mr. Ryan, is that acceptable?

Yeah, I think so.

Any further discussion on the motion? Okay, can we have a roll call, please?

Excuse me. Calling Member Hugh Ryan.

Yes.

Calling Member Robert Powers. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Jordan Trachtenberg.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member John S. Perez.

Yes.

Calling Member Julie O'Dell. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Christopher Cauley.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Vice Chair Luis Prieto y Munoz. No.

No.

Calling Chair William Hopper.

Yes.

It passes by a vote of seven to one. As amended, this decision is final unless appealed to the hearing board's office within 15 days.

Thank you all very much.

Is there anything else to come before the board?

There are no discussion items at this time. There's nothing else on the agenda.

Okay. Oh, sorry. I thought I was leaving.

Yeah.

Yeah. I had a question, maybe a discussion for staff. Is there any update on the Flagler Workers' Cottage?

At this time, no. I have no update on the Flagler Workers' Cottage. I will tell you that it was probably about a year ago. There were meetings with the project team, the project architect, to get a restoration plan in place that would require, Would restore the building under our purview, under staff. It would all be staff approvable. To my knowledge, it has not moved beyond that.

Okay. Is it secure right now?

To my knowledge, the site is locked and the building is boarded. Okay. I walk past it about three times a week.

Okay. So, yeah. All right. So people aren't living on the front porch anymore?

I have not, yeah, I have not seen that. Again, to my knowledge, walking by it, it appears that the site is locked.

All right. I have a question. Yes, Mr. Bruce.

Is there...

assuming there is but is there like an inspection on historic project projects that uh the historic department uh makes at the end to certify that everything so uh the final sign off is generally done by building i've been asking for that for 16 years i'm concerned about what uh you brought up last time that the execution of the actual design was not up to standards and We would say this as as an architect and developer. Sometimes so they come and inspect the final product. Are certainly not as. they don't look at it as closely as the reviewers might. So I think it would help us a lot if something like that could be implemented.

You are not incorrect. But I will say that throughout the process, um with most most projects um we are reviewing um within our review cycles so if it if it is a substantial project new construction at each sub permit we are requiring documentation of the work that is ongoing to ensure that the work that is ongoing is is what the intent of what the board has decided i have an idea

To close out our building permits, for example, we have to have a final survey done and we send it to the flood department, for example. And the only way we can get the sign off is if Wadi or somebody in the flood department reviews it and gives a sign off. One idea, for example, if there isn't the staff to go in and provide the inspection, is for a report by a professional to be prepared with photographs that could certify that it is according to plans. And that maybe is something that your department could review from the office, because I understand that there is a large volume of projects. But I worry about what happens once projects... leave the review process because I see varying degrees of compliance and quality.

It's an honor system a little bit. I know I say that mean, but I guess my question on top of that was, would this be something that would be a policy change coming from, say, the commission to change the way things are done? Or would this be something that you could just change the way things are done?

So likely it could be an enhancement within the division itself.

Okay. May I? Yeah, go ahead. So that's not been something that has not come before this board a multitude of times, what you're talking about. And it's going to take a commissioner to make that change, to ask for that change to happen. Because it's almost impossible to... He can't really act on his own. He has to be directed to do something like that. Unfortunately. No, no, really. I'm just saying. Because we have this issue. I don't disagree with you. But you know what? When you go in and get a building permit, they don't even tell you what you need to do for your building permit. Okay? Like it's kind of this innocuous thing. It isn't like these are the first ten things that you need to do or these are the first five things that you need to do. Because we still see projects that are halfway finished before we even get to say anything about it. And I will tell you that we got this... I live up there. I know that Jordan and I and a bunch of other people got... sidelined by people who had a building done on 68th Street or 69th Street where the house was well out of proportion to what was originally seen at this meeting. It is not what they built. I can tell you that right now. As you look at what we got and what they built, it's like night and day. Because there is no review afterwards. Once they get their thing, they just go ahead and do what they want to do. Anyway, and then it's done. And it's a shame because there is nothing that says they have to come back to this board upon completion or whatever to see that all the stuff that we told them to do got done. So it's really an honor. Like he said, he's a good guy. Carlos is a good guy. I mean, he's representing a good guy. He's going to make sure that it happens because he doesn't want to look bad at the end of it. I'm just saying it because I work with him on Biscayne Boulevard all the time. with all the stuff that happens on Biscayne Boulevard as the head of MIMO. So I know certain people come before these boards that you can trust their word, but I agree with you. I think that we need to have some type of a mechanism where things get checked, not because he doesn't do his job.

Bottom line is,

It just gets lost in the woodwork somewhere, and builders aren't always who they say they're going to be.

On that point, Bob, I mentioned at the last meeting to some homeowners, maybe from Bayside, Okay, things have changed in the city a little bit. Go talk to your commissioner. So maybe we should do that because there's a new energy on the commission and the mayor.

I mean, if we take a practical tack on this item, Ken, in your view, from a policy standpoint, what would need to be revised to entrench that?

It would be a procedural change within the building permit, as I see it, and I could be wrong, but... That's often why I have Savannah next to me, because she's the procedural person.

So maybe what we can, I mean, maybe the idea then, since you don't know that definitively either, maybe we can ask you to look at what would have to change from a policy standpoint. So what wording in what codex of Miami ordinances would have to be revised to reflect this or to enshrine this in the building approval process? And then perhaps we can, as this board, pass a resolution recommending that the city consider that.

Okay.

And then we do the hard work for them and that becomes a straightforward item for them to review. I think maybe that's just one of the easier ways for us to do this is maybe take that first step for them and streamline that process and then just have that as a, and there is some more publicity to what it is that we're doing so maybe the advocacy groups might get behind that as well.

Sorry, can I go real quick? I think also, to tell you the truth, we should ask the commissioners to come before this board just so we can explain to them how these procedures work.

You want to summon the commissioners?

Well, I would ask them to attend one of our meetings to come and to see how these procedures work. Most of them are clueless about... Or they could be on the phone like you were, and we were listening to you up in the sky. What are you talking about? Remember when you weren't here? Well, yeah, I wasn't here because I had a friend...

I know, I know, but we have the commissioners in the sky.

Yeah, but you want to know something? I think it's more important when they come... Dudes, I'm just saying, like, this... If we're going to make things work, then we have to educate people as to... And the commissioners need to be educated, because everybody looks at historic designation like, somehow people are losing some type of a right to have a historic neighborhood, when indeed that is completely the opposite of it, because we don't lose value. After the 2008 and 2009 things, historic neighborhoods never really lost their value as far as home costs go, and that's statistically proving. So, like, that's a misnomer. Here's another thing. I...

want to make sure we're not vying into discussing things that... All right, well, whatever.

I'm just saying that perhaps, well, you know, we should go meet with each one of our commissioners, but I also think maybe some of these commissioners ought to be asked to come to some of these meetings and...

Invited.

What?

Invited.

Invited. Whatever. I didn't say summoned. I didn't say that word.

I said asked that they should come here and I heard you. I have one more last comment to kind of build upon what I was saying. During the building process, there's dozens of inspections. So adding one on should not be a big deal. And I'll say this. Anybody that's following the plans and what they agreed should be more than happy to have this inspection done. Anybody that is nervous about this, well, that may say something about how they approach their projects.

Yep. And maybe they can have a report to the board of a before, I mean, an approved picture and then a completion picture. I have a question regarding the annual report.

Yes.

Am I required to come deliver it?

So yes, Melanie, I just want to, the commission hearing is on the 14th for the annual report, correct? And Dr. Hopper can present it during public comment? Correct. I think if I let the city clerk know he's going to be doing that, he can do it first? Is that, am I wrong? I may be wrong on that.

We have to check with the city clerk.

All right, I'll reach out to the city clerk and see if we...

Okay, I have the day free, so just let me know when.

Okay. So, yeah, it's basically during the public comment portion, but I think if they know that there's a board chair there to present, I'll follow up on that and get back to you before the end of the week.

Okay, thanks. Anything else? No? No?

So I do want to say, because I know that there are lots of questions. I appreciate that there are lots of questions. I want to let you all know that feel free to reach out to me if you have questions. Bob calls me. Julie's called me. I've received calls. So if there are questions, I and my staff make ourselves available to you as well. So don't hesitate on that.

Thank you. Motion to adjourn? Yes. Second.

Any discussion on the motion? All in favor say aye. All opposed? Thank you. We're adjourned. See you in April.

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