Town Council - Regular Meeting

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So, I had given you all a heads up that um we had a company that was um gonna extend fiber to the town. Uh the company's name is Joink and Tim is actually here from Joink and so he asked if he could just come in and Tim you're welcome to come sit up at the table with us and Tim just wants to introduce uh Joink and I know a couple of you guys had some questions and so maybe you can pepper Tim with your questions and maybe he can tell you a little bit about the service they're going to provide and so uh that's your first item here. I'll give you the microphone, Tim, because people are watching online. So, thank you.

Once again, I'm Tim Mcomes. I'm with Joink LLC out of Terode, Indiana. We're a a broadband provider doing a lot of fiber to the home projects. Uh we are a know not too local. It's about an hour and 10 minutes to drive here. So, um but we are uh pretty still local. I shop in Avon. So, uh, little history, we've, uh, completely built out a terote. We're we also own a company in Illinois, uh, CTI. [snorts] We do quite a bit of, uh, fiber work and, uh, quality fiber work. We're really good with Terote and, uh, a lot of the utility companies there, the cities, the county departments, everyone else. We're good at restoring our work. Um, no matter what, you're always going to have a little bit of a pain with traffic. People are getting frustrated in that sense, but the payoff is is well worth it, I'm sure, for the connection we'll be providing. Uh we were looking to just come in tonight and just kind of, you know, hear out any questions that were asked, as well as uh just let you know we're here to partner up with the the city and help you out in whatever needs you have as well. and uh possibly just talk about what kind of things we could do to help you out and at the same time maybe a little ease up on some of the permit costing at the same time kind of help out with what we can do for the actual city itself.

Would you be running the fiber optics throughout the incorporated area or just certain areas within the town? Uh we're focusing on a lot of the u subdivision areas more more right away for the fiber to the home. We we do offer fiber to businesses and uh do a lot of other things. But [snorts and clears throat] uh the main project is kind of a subdivision build out. Uh I brought a map with me tonight to show you. Actually got a map that I can leave with you guys. But it's it's a pretty large project. Yes. You're saying [clears throat] you're offering fiber to the home? Yes. The last mile complete to my house

all the way to the back of your router. Yes. With without fiber already being ran in in the neighborhood. How are you guys going to So So I probably accomplish that.

I probably ought to make sure I do say uh as long as it's in the neighborhood map, and I'm sure it probably is. If it's not got fiber now, it will be built to there. Um we it'll be all underground fiber. Uh, one thing that's great about our company is [clears throat] that we do build everything underground. So, when there's a storm, ice storm, uh, someone hits a telephone pole, a lot of the company's internets will go down and a lot of the time they're waiting for the power company to restore theirs before they can go in and get the internet going. We are underground, so we don't have those hazards. Uh, we've we could have dig hazards, but, uh, historically, we don't have an issue with that. We have our own locating department and we do our own paint. So, we feel pretty confident with that. But yeah, we we have investors that we are partnered with to get this project done.

When when Ryan introduced us this couple meetings back, month and a half ago, I took a look at your site and the plans, the pricing that you guys offer. This is a this is an irrelevant question, Dan. I know it is, but I'm curious, how are you going to compete with Spectrum, uh, AT&T, they're offering [snorts] gig internet now, which is what you guys are offering at a less price than what you guys are. The only difference I can find, so here's my question. What more is there? [clears throat] The only difference I can find is that you guys are synchronous, not async. So, you're getting full gig down, full gig up. Is that the

That's the power of fiber. Yeah. So, um the other thing is you're getting a true connection. So, um I don't want to speak out against anything I don't know, but I do know that I personally have join my speeds that I'm paying for what I'm actually getting no matter how many people in the neighborhood are on it. So, uh, yes, they're symmetrical services and, uh, I'm not sure on the competition and our pricing what our pricing model will be for sure here. I'm with engineering. Okay. So, you you guys offer pricing based on the individual local the pricing I saw was looked like it was your

terote probably. Yeah. I'm not sure the pricing plan that they've got laid out for here or if it's going to stay the same or what. But to answer your question, it's tough to compete with those companies. Uh, one thing we have going for us that uh, in our area is the Spectrums have already been there and said they're going to not just Spectrum, but other companies, we're going to provide it for 35 a month. And you can only do that so long before you go broke. So then next thing you know, your bill goes up 20. And then as you're [clears throat] a customer, it keeps changing. And we've had oursid since we've been doing fiber. So, are you guys prepared to enter into any bonds that we're going to require of you to dig in our neighborhood?

Yes, I believe we already have entered into a city bond. Yeah, we're doing work here currently. I actually tried to ask for an update. I think a day or two ago, we were at 7,000 foot in the ground already. So, and if you didn't know that, that's great. That means they're not making that big of a big of a mess out there, right? We're in one of the busier roads, Avon Avenue, right now. So yeah, but we on chatter. They'll let you know how you're doing. [laughter] Yeah, we've been [clears throat] in contact with Steve Moore quite a bit. So

um can you Sorry. Go ahead, Jason. I was just going to say I I would like to see the map personally, but I was just curious you're aware of our corporate boundaries. It's a little strange. Are we going into Washington Township then as well or are you actually staying within the bounds of the town of Avon?

Uh we we're actually this project we're doing here stretches from Avon through Danville. So we're going out County Road 100 and shooting over to uh Danville. Um we're going to we'll expand off of this. So this isn't just we're going to build this and disappear. We're going to start building out from here. Uh we've actually uh put in a storefront here on 36. That way we have a local store with local people that can service you instead of you having to wait an hour and 10 minutes for someone else to take that boring drive. But yeah, I I'll definitely leave that map here. You guys

Tim, can you talk a little bit about I know when you guys talked to me, you talked about and Robert just mentioned like speeds. Can you share what kind of speed plans you do offer people? I know that's not your world. You're not in the you're the engineering side, but

it's it's a you know, historically we've done a 300 by 300, a 500 x 500, and a gig by gig. Uh we do offer other services and uh lots of other stuff. However, uh there's also, you know, I don't know if they're going to go to where they say, "Well, if you don't need 300 by 300, we have a a model pricing that lets us compete with the other people and maybe brings the speeds down." Uh some people don't need 300. So, we there's been lots of uh talk, I'm not in sales, so I can't really speak on their half of what they've discussed, but that is the standard is 300 500 gig service. [clears throat] And what's your timing for having your fiber ran to the neighborhoods here in town? Uh, it's it's all going to depend on locates. I I really hate to say that we'll be here for three months or six months. And I think six months is whenever I met with Ryan what the CEO had said. U it, we're at the mercy of other companies locating their fibers and um you know uh road crossings where there's utilities. We don't want to cut a road. Figuring out remapping. Uh, ideally it would be six months.

And you're putting this in the right of way, is that correct? Yes, sir. Right away. And then in subdivisions and utility easements where we can. So really all you need is a permit from the town. Yeah, we've already started permitting. That's one of the things I was discussing while ago. I think if we don't if we don't uh try to work something out where we can maybe service some town buildings or help somewhere, we're going to end up at almost $500,000 in permitting to build money. [laughter]

So, so I mean I don't think that realistically under Indiana law that you're profiting supposed to profit off of that. You're supposed to have be able to whatever the town loses they can make back. And I think realistically in six months we hope we don't charge you guys that. Uh but just just see what we could do to work with you on somewhere around there. That cost that we incur. Um not to mention the normal cost of building fiber, but it all just adds up and it makes it hard to compete it at uh I think we're at 60ome dollars for that basic service and they're at 35. So to ever recoup any money, it just without raising customer rates or keeping them high, it helps us to be able to say this is what it actually cost us. We can go in and do cheaper services, things like that.

You had mentioned a storefront, a retail location. Did you buy the lot then on Avon Avenue?

Yes, sir. So the lot on Avon Avenue, we purchased a commercial lot there. We were wanting to put our uh remote building. Basically, it's just a 30 foot by 12 foot uh rock finish kind of building. Uh typical for all telecom industries. They're really expensive buildings. U but they're set up to protect that equipment inside and keep it temperature in there good. Uh it would just be that and a generator. Uh we I think we had originally we had proposed maybe a little warehouse uh back in there, but I don't think we're going to do that as of now. I think we're the store we're renting is going to have enough space to put some stuff to go service customers in the back of it. And so we're just really looking for a place that we we could land our remote.

You're currently flagging my subdivision. And so are you putting it on the side where the green flags are then? Is that where it's going?

Um I would uh [clears throat] I would assume that if they were doing it, they'd be painting white where they're going to be building white paint, but if there's flags on that side, they may have I know there's been some spots here that they've asked for both sides of the road to be painted. And that's just because the fact that once we paint one side and we realize we got a cross and maybe the gas company paints a gas line down the middle. Uh you know, typically you would by law have to put a little hole in the concrete and find that gas line to make sure we don't hit it when we cross. And there's some of these roads that we're not allowed to cut without coming to you to ask. Um so we're in some of these areas where it's feasible, we're just building both sides of the road. Like you got sewer on one side, too. I mean, it's all flagged, so you got all your utilities marked.

Yeah. I would think you would go on the side of the road that you have left's competition on. Yeah, that's ideal. Whenever I met with Steve, that's what I asked. I I said we're going to show this on a map one way, [clears throat] but once we call in our locates and we see that an area is congested, we'd like to be able to say and that's working with Steve and uh uh that we would like to maybe switch roadsides and go to an uncluttered area. So, we we don't want to by no means go in there and get into any other utilities if we can avoid it. The green flags are typically probably where they located.

That's good news. If they're flag, you have to give us a breakdown of what the flags are. They're really easy. [clears throat] Yellow is gas, blue is water, orange is telecom, white is construction, red is power, pink is pink is proposed usually. Sometimes you know white or pink is norally construction. Yeah. And yeah, purple. Purple's usually if it's just like storm drainage or some kind of drainage.

Yeah. the actual bridge. [laughter] This is Yes, we do it purple. [laughter]

Um Tim mentioned it a little bit. One of the discussions I had with them, which obviously you guys are aware that we're we're building uh the Riverwalk district at Eastern Gray. So I had kind of brought that up to them that it would be nice for them to extend service there. there would be another selling point for us for Eastern Gay to have fiber service available to people in there. And so that's Tim kind of brought that up. One of the things I'm working on with the civic center is how we're going to get internet service to the new building. And so I kind of brought that up with them and that was one of the things they said there will be a cost for us to to extend uh fiber, whoever provides it to us. So I'm I'm talking to several different people to do it. So I kind of figured while they were here that I'd have that discussion with them. So that Tim kind of mentioned that that they did make an offer to potentially extend it to us and in lie of some of our fees that maybe they would extend it to us. So I had told them that I couldn't you know we have an ordinance that says what I can do and it says we charge a certain fee. So I don't have the ability to negotiate that with them. Yeah.

So if if that's something you guys are willing to do, it's certainly a discussion that I could have with them and and report back to you guys. you guys would ultimately have to make that decision if we were willing to do that or not. But, um, I think that's what Tim kind of referenced that maybe they could work with us and provide service to the civic center. And and one thing I'd like to point out, I know, um, you got a permitting stance and that's what you like to keep. I don't think whenever these are always drafted, they're drafted for full town buildouts. They're usually drafted for small projects, two or three blocks, uh, a little area. So the town it makes sense for those costs, but when you start looking at linear foot costs that we're building. I mean it's what did we tell you that that day? Like five 500,000.

Yeah, it's about 500,000. So yeah, and I think I shared this with you guys when I talked to you before that we had a problem when a fiber optic company came through town. They went down Dan Jones. They ripped all of Dan Jones from the north side of town all the way to the south side of town. They ripped up everybody's yards, made a huge mess, and they did it. and our permit fee was like a hundred bucks. So, we changed our permit structure to have more control and to be able to manage somebody who was going to do something like that. And so, that's what Tim's referencing, our our uh right-of-way permit. Actually, it's $100 for your first $200 for your first 100 feet, right? And then for every foot beyond that, it's 50 cents per lineal foot. So that's what when they're laying hundreds of thousands of square feet, it is it's making their fee relatively expensive. So, but again, we put that fee specifically in place for that issue and for fiber optics. And some of you remember back a few years ago, this happened in Fisers and they had issues and it was on TV. It was big story. The companies came in, they were tearing up neighborhoods and they were causing problems. So again, there was good reason that we expect in these cases and and we've already experienced it. Betsy and Steve could tell you they've they're spending a lot of time managing and reviewing these permits and then working with the contractors and we're going to have to do a lot of site inspections and so it is going to require more work on our staff's part, which is why the fee is more expensive. So, um, again, just for that background in context for you guys, that that's why we do have that higher fee in there for it.

Well, I think it's to discuss more like that would be another work session since we have tonight's kind of full and only an introduction. So, if there's someone certain I can start working some details out with uh maybe before your next session to kind of have a proposal or or something like that or someone the CEO could reach out to uh that you guys would like them to talk with if you want to work with Ryan on those types of things that would be good. Okay. Thank you, Tim. Appreciate that. Thank you. I'll leave that map. Okay. Do you only have a physical copy of that?

Um, I actually I've already sent a digital copy here, but I can send another. Yeah, got it. Yeah, I believe so. Brian does [clears throat] and Steve does. Um, I'll uh Robert, I'll get you one. Or get it to Betsy and Betsy can get it to everybody. Oh, it's a big map. Big map. Oh, yeah. It's I don't think I have a copy of that now. Uh, I don't know. Betsy, have you seen that?

Yeah, I was gonna say I'd seen segments like so for example, they're, as Tim told you guys, they're starting their start point is basically that property on Avon Avenue and then they're extending out. So, the neighborhoods they've pulled permits for are Sycamore Creek, Stratford, Oakend. So, they're working like along Avon Avenue. Uh, that's kind of where they're starting and then they'll kind of keep spurring out from that point.

This is Yeah. So, some of these neighborhoods [clears throat] turn the lights on. Hey Ryan, we'll move on to boards and commissions.

Yes. Um, normally at this first meeting, we always talk about um, normally we do gifts for our boards and commissions. And so I just want to run that by you guys again. This year, uh, we did have, um, mugs made. They're not mugs. They're actually like these kind of Yeah, tumblers. Thank you, Shelby. We have tumblers that have the new town logo. So, we were going to do that. We're going to put some fudge in them. And then we're also we have leftover dirt from the groundbreaking for the civic center. And we have

we have our envelope openers. So, we're going to put those in. So, that's going to be our gifts for our boards and commission. So, um yeah, piece of dirt. That's what Suzanne actually went out a bucket of dirt from when we did the groundbreaking. So, what's that? You'll never know.

You just have to wait and see, John. So, that's our plan for boards and commissions. Um, and then every year, normally I ask you guys for permission or if you're willing to do uh if you guys want to do a gift card to the staff. Um, last year we did $125. We have 75 employees, 44 police, 31 uh town administrative staff. So, if we did $125, that's $9,375 uh for the staff, but I those are benefits to the employees. So, I always want to get uh the town council's approval to do that if you're willing to do that or if you're don't want to do that this year, that's fine as well. So, just wanted to get your input.

Where did the idea come about?

Um we started doing it back in COVID. Um, and I think it was just a thank you and an appreciation to the town staff for their work and it it's just kind of like a nice Christmas gift. We also used to do a Christmas party um and we've kind of stopped doing that and again I think the impression we got we used to host it at a restaurant but only a small portion of the staff would actually show up. So very few people were benefiting for that from that opportunity. So we and we were spending about the same amount of money for that Christmas party. So instead of spending the money for the Christmas party, the feedback I got from staff was that they were more appreciative of just getting the gift cards, they could do whatever they wanted with it then. Uh they could go out take their family out to dinner or they could do whatever. And so that's how we got to the gift cards uh and providing those instead of doing an annual Christmas party.

Are these just Visa gift cards? Correct. Yeah. I'm fine with the way we've always done it.

I'm I'm okay with it at this point, I guess. So, you're not doing the, just to be clear, on the boards and commissions, they're not doing the candy this year from the

from fudge kettle. We're going to still do the fudge, but that's why we did get some feedback that some of the people didn't really like the candy. So, we thought we'd still wanted to do something to support our local business, and so we'll still include the fudge piece, but we're not going to do the rest of the candy stuff. So, we modified it a little bit. My feedback was going to be if if that's what you were thinking before you mentioned the tumblers and things that you know there are some people that are diabetic there's people that don't eat the candy right um and the fudge and things like that so I was going to suggest maybe in lie of that you know still supporting another local business but maybe you could do a a cabin coffee gift card as opposed to

you know candy we've done candy for several years and you Okay, that's a good idea. You did. [laughter] Okay. Yeah, we'll think about that and see if we That may be better. I like that, Don. Okay. So, how many cards do you want to put out? 75. 44 police, 31 admin. What's the cost? $9,375. Cost nothing. Actually, Julie is able to order them through our bank and they charge us nothing. There's no Yeah.

Yeah. And it actually says on there, it says from town coun like Julie can put a message on there. It says from the town council, Merry Christmas. It has a dollar amount. So, it's from you guys to them and the employees. There's not an there's not a $5 activation fee or whatever. We used to buy them at Kroger, but Julie found a way to do it and it saves us a lot of money to do it that way as well. Okay, great. Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh, next discussion on voting procedures.

Yeah, I a couple of town council members had discussed with me our voting procedures. And so, one, I just I, you know, I' I've not been town I know I've been town manager for five years, but I don't know if any of you guys have looked at the rules and procedures before. So, one, I just wanted to give the entire rules and procedures to you. I don't know that I've read through them. They're not super exciting. They are super important because it's about how we operate and function and work. But, um, and and I would definitely say after having reviewed them, I I with the council's permission, I'd like to work with Dan and Anna to update them because they're very outdated. There's a lot of things in there that were not really operating the way that we've been operating. And so, they they do need a refresh. They're not terrible, but And so the one issue that came uh to my attention that I looked up and it's specifically on page 25 and 26, and it's highlighted in yellow, which was a discussion on our voting procedures. Uh as you guys know, uh currently we typically do a roll call. And so the question was, do we really have to do it by roll call or could we do it by a voice vote or a hand raise? And so, uh, that's what I point you to the bottom of page 25. Um, general consensus may be declared at the discretion of the providing presiding officer if there are no negative votes or objections by council members. So, that's you can basically voice vote or you could vote by raising your hand. And then the top sentence on page 26 says, upon the request of any council member, a roll call vote will be taken and recorded. And so, um, I don't, we've not necessarily been doing anything wrong. I think normally with the presid presiding officer has been calling for a roll call vote, so that's what Julie has done. But you're not necessarily required to do that uh, as the presiding officer. So, I kind of shared that information with Don and she kind of said, well, that would be kind of awkward if all of a sudden we change it for as long as we've been as long as

I've been town manager, we've always done roll call votes. So, and I think same thing with Don, as long as she's been on there. So, we figured we'd at least talk about it, see if it was something you guys want to change, if you want to keep doing roll call votes, or if you want to change the way you're operating. So, I like the roll call vote. Yeah. What would be the benefit? I feel like with the roll call vote, very transparent. Voters get to know who voted for or against something. about a roll call vote that I feel like that transparency was taken away was the benefit of doing away with the roll call vote.

I don't see that there's any additional transparency to be gained by having a roll call vote. I mean, there's only five of us here. If three of us vote one way and two of us vote another way, I think that's going to be very obvious to anybody watching at home and it's going to be recorded on what we sign afterwards. I mean, it's all still, it doesn't get signed except for the budget, [clears throat] who votes for what. The clerk treasurer takes down who votes for what during a roll call vote. I don't believe she's required to do that for just a voice vote. So, how would it be more transparent for what's the is there an answer to that question? She can still record who voted which way.

There's no requirement. The requirement for your minutes simply says she has to show the action taken. And so I think Robert's right. Unless you said that in our minutes we always want a detail of the vote, it wouldn't be detailed. So we could make that change. Uh yes, you could.

To me, the only way the only thing that I think about is sometimes when we're doing the real quick where we have a lot of things on there where we're moving through the items quickly and it seems like we're just saying who makes a motion. Okay, second. Julie, roll call. and then you move on to the next this this this. So sometimes it's kind of I don't know it just seems like there's really sometimes no discussion or anything and we're just moving and it's a little bit um cumbersome. I I don't have really strong feelings any either way. I know from being a liaison with the um county commissioners this year and some of the county things and other meetings that I've gone to a lot of them do it the way that um you know you just mentioned but you know I I don't have strong feelings I guess either way other than

well I think too by live streaming all of our meetings now it helps the audience they [clears throat] hear it. They may be doing something, but they hear it versus we're all on boards and commissions and I'm on loan committee and every is all in favor. There are people that I know are voters that don't say anything. So, what's their vote? Who's going to monitor who said something, who didn't say something, who raised their hand, who didn't raise their hand? This way, it takes away all that guesswork. I think um another one that I was at recently was uh the police merit board and I think you guys raise a hand, [clears throat] right?

No, they just speak up. All in favor? I but yeah, as a group, but I've seen some of them like raise their hand. Let's see. And I think I think the only one that really has to I think Dan is the um plan commission. Correct.

We do have a lot of boards and commissions. dance the spirit into the by the planning commission not by the planning commission not council

I don't know I mean it is uh the rules that you have in your uh rules of procedure reflect Robert's rules of order and that is that um you start from the ground of we're going to vote by the um yeses and nos you know either by voice or by hand. And then um if if the governing body wants to u show more clearly the votes, roll call votes are used. In legislative bodies, roll call votes take a long time. And so they're not used very often at all. But in um smaller bodies like uh local government, uh roll call is kind of unusual. um a little more common than like a state legislator because you're not you know you're not going to cast votes with 100 people but um what your rules say is exactly what um Robert's rules says. Uh I don't see uh I don't see a lot of governing bodies using roll call votes. Mainly they just vote uh by hand vote. So that it goes to what Greg said a little bit. If it's if it's the A's and A's, then how do you know that someone actually voted? So the the raising of hands is done by many many school boards, county commissioners, other city councils. It's there's a lot of raising of hands is a way to signify your vote. Um it's easier for the clerk treasurer who's recording the vote to see the vote. Um, and also if you did a voice vote, you know, under the uh Robert's rules again, you have the power if you think the chair gets it wrong, um, you any member has a right to then call for division, which is a roll call

vote to make sure we're getting the vote tabulated correctly. So, you have all those powers, but your situation, um, you know, you've done roll call vote for a long time, and I think that you had a town council president way back then who just felt that that was the best way to do it. Prior to that time, it was not not done. It was hardly ever done. So, I've seen it both ways here. Well, we've had no issues doing it the way we're doing it. Not that I'm aware of. No.

Well, I didn't think so, but obviously the chair and the majority of the town council thought so. I mean, I just I just think they were I think they're trying to promote kind of the transparency that Robert talked about a little bit, which is if you're going to vote, we're going to make sure we know everybody's voting and you're going to have to say it and we're going to do it one at a time. Make sure we get it right. I think that's what they were trying to do. It was a long time ago, but this is the only board I've ever been on that's done a roll call vote for every vote, and I've never had any issues on any of the other boards.

Well, we've had no issues in the past. I just say keep doing the way we're doing it. So [clears throat] you're saying that the way that that we currently have our ordinance our ordinance did I understand you Brian to say that it's not in our ordinance right now that we were doing roll call or

so what it currently says in your rules and procedures is if there's believed to be common agreement that you guys can just do a voice vote or a hand vote like Dan was talking about. You just you could just say all in favor say I and everyone would raise their hand or say I and then you'd say all opposed say nay and then those people would vote. That's what it originally says, but then it says any member of the town council could choose to call a roll call vote. And so they would say if they wanted a roll call vote, they would say, "Can we please do a roll call vote? That's what your rules and procedures say right now." And so essentially, I think to Dan's point, the the way the previous provide presiding officer as the town council president just always the town council president called for the roll call vote. And so it just always happened. And so for years, Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to say for as long for the last five years that I've been town manager. Yes. So

so that's just as that continued as a habit that the presiding officer was calling the roll call, but the presiding officer doesn't have to call for the roll call. I get is what your rules and procedures say. So it's really up to the presiding officer. Greg, do you remember when that changed? It was Greg's first year. I've been on it. Are you the one that did it? [laughter] No, it wasn't. No. But what was your first year? 2000. Yeah. The next So I think it was 200. So be four or five. 2004 or five. 2005. The election of Ford. So January 2005 is when the change made. So it's been 20 years. Long [clears throat] time and then it just became the custom.

You could do it where you're talking about now. you say I if there's a descent either way just go to if you're not you don't have a consensus then it automatically goes to a roll call that way the public can see who's voting why so really you guys don't have to change anything this is more informative It's it's up to the presiding officer on how they navigate it. So unless you guys want a direct change in in what the rules and procedures say there there's really no action tonight. It was more justformational to give you guys the information and then the presiding officer is going to decide how to do it. And so Don, if you want to call for a roll call, you can. Or if you want to say all in favor say I. You can. It's it's at your discretion.

It be hard to change. be hard [laughter] out of out of habit. You may be a challenge.

Well, and and one problem with uh the contrary rule is this is the state law says that you can have you can adapt your rules of procedure and if but if unless you address it, Robert's rules applies. So if even if you didn't have the rule you have where it says any member can request a roll call, that's Robert's rules. So if you if if if four of the five of you said, "I never want to have another roll call vote as long as I'm in office." And Robert at the far end there, he wants a roll call vote every time. Every time there's a vote, he can ask for it and he gets it. So you need to work it out as a consensus or you're really not going to accomplish anything, right? You know,

I'll just say that. And that may be how we first got here. all those years ago. All it takes is really one member who wants a roll call vote and you're going to have roll call vote. And at the time it happened to be the president of the council who wanted it. And so he was going to ask the clerk treasurer to do a roll call every time there was a vote and that just became your custom. I see. But again, you you really would need five people who don't want a roll call vote or otherwise you're going to have roll call vote. So just caution you about that.

Okay. Thank you. Is it a consensus vote and then a roll call vote? Now what the rule says I would say what Ryan would say is a little different is um the part of consensus that's also Robert's rules and it says that if you discuss something long enough and the chair says do we have consensus to move forward on that and no one says anything other than shakes their head that's consensus okay that's really what I call not a vote at all okay but their idea is and you'll see this in Congress they will say things like they'll say approved without exception so when the chair gives you a chance to say that you know there is no consensus on this and you don't speak Robert's rule says the body has asented to the positive so that's a different thing altogether um in my my opinion I read that to be that way because of what Robert's rule says so Robert's rule says that there are three ways you can vote. Well, there are four ways you can vote in Robert's rules. You can raise your hand. You can say I or nay. Uh you can stand up to be counted or you can do a secret ballot. Those are and those are all acceptable voting techniques. Roll call vote is also another method which says we're going to do it verbally one at a time. That's what roll call is. We're going to vote one at a time. So all of those ways are recognized. So when the original rules were drafted and they predate 2003, I can tell you that because they were already here when I got here. Um there's no explanation for why it says what it says other than what

it really says is that you can vote I a and you can just say all in favor say I. All post say no. You can do that under your rules unless someone asks for a member your one of the council members ask for a roll call vote. That's what your rule currently says. I wouldn't be confused about consensus. I just wanted to be clear that if she asked for all those in favor say I and Robert let's say ask for a roll call vote. It wouldn't be we say I do our vote and then we roll call vote afterwards. We would just stop and do a roll call vote instead. That's correct. His his uh request would take priority

over any vote. Yeah. He would need to be fast though. Well, what's interesting if you read on page 26 about abstensions, I know we've had abstensions that didn't follow this format. You're exactly right. And when it came to the roll call vote, that's when they abstained. And according to this, you have to let the presiding officer know you're going to abstain prior to the roll call for a vote. It's It's true. It's just that

it's Yeah, it's just true. But I I don't know why that's there. And I also think that if u again if a roll call vote is being called and Jason's going to be called on last and they get to him, he abstains, he has the right to abstain, you he can't do anything about it, right? He has that right. So that rule doesn't make much sense to me. I didn't say it did or not. I'm just saying we're not following it. I know. Okay, moving on. Rainy day transfer creating insurance reserve fund.

Yes. So I just wanted to get these both in front of you. Um the first one is the rainy day transfer. uh the last couple years and at the advice of our financial advisor uh at least the last four years we've done a transfer to the rainy day. So uh normally we do that at the last meeting of the year. So I just wanted to get that in front of you and see uh if you guys were still interested in doing that. I have to tell you I Julie is Cal you saw guys saw Calvin back here. Calvin and Julie are working to close the November books. So, I I don't know what our where we're at and what we would be able to transfer to the rainy day fund yet. So, at this point, I'd probably just need do you guys want to do it um or not? And if you do, I'll bring a resolution and Julie and I will review it and make a recommendation similar to what we did last year. Uh last year, we we said between 150 and $250,000. We did end up transferring $250,000 to the rainy day fund. So, um, that's one. Uh, two, uh, at the last meeting Don brought up. Sorry, go ahead, Robert.

Sure. It's [clears throat] been years since I've seen it, but I believe is the one who gave us targets for fund balances. And I remember a handful of them. We'd hit a handful of them. We were already there. A handful of them. We were close and we were gaining on it. I remember rainy day, we were like nowhere near that target. So that's kind of been why we've All right, let's put chunks in every year. Where we at on hitting that target? I don't remember what that number is now. Remember where we are now? I literally just picked this for

um So Greg is sneaky. So Greg changes the number every year as we grow. His recommendation for what the rainy day fund should be continues to go up. [laughter] Yeah, not Greg Susan, sorry. Greg Geratas, our financial adviser. So as we grow bigger, Greg usually increases what he wants our as our rainy day. So I think originally he had told us a million five and so then we were on a path. We said over the next three years we would get to a million5 and I think we're right at a million five now. I think he in in the most recent um financial plan I think he asked recommended that we get to a million8.

Yeah. um closing November right now. I'll know next week. And again, I don't know that we necessarily have to do the 300,000 this year. It's a general guideline. So, yeah. Yeah. And a lot of times he says by the end of 2027 if you could have a million eight and then in 27 he changes the number again. So, it's it does it is a little bit of a rolling number, but I would tell you you don't necessarily have to try to get to that number immediately. But as of October, we're at a million 539.87. Yeah. Yeah. So we're at the million5 to million8 range. Right.

And you're right. It's a moving target. As you get bigger, you that needs to go up. The the thing that he also always said made us look good when we went and did bond. It shows that we're increasing our rainy day fund. But I guess my [clears throat] question is is there's really no way for us to say what the value of that is. You know, when the bond holders are looking at it, are they looking at a number of 2 million or they're just looking at, oh, they have a number or is that enough money, not enough money? I I don't know if we can put any detail to that other than we're raising that on an annual basis.

Right. Exact. Yeah, exactly. Greg, I think that's Greg Guyeras's advice has been they want us to show fiscal responsibility and strength and that if we're able to every year to make some contribution that's showing that we are financially sound. So, I think to Robert's point, Greg would say it doesn't have to be 300,000, but put something in because that's showing we're continuing to main maintain high fiscal responsibility and we have sound financial strength in the town's budget. And that's that has been our goal and that's why we kind of said, let's over three years try to get there. So, you know, if we say we want to get to 18 and we say we want to get there in the next two years, well then maybe we do 150 this year and we do 150 next year. And Greg, when you say you don't know what that number, what's that magic number that, you know, a bond person's looking at when they're determining our rate and if they're going to, you know, what our bond level will be. I think that Greg Geratas, that's where we lean on our, you know, financial planner. And I think that we must be doing it or must be pretty much on track because our latest bond numbers and bond rates were really good. I mean, better than competitive really. I think so. I think we're I think that we're close to what they're looking for in what we're doing right now. I don't know that we'll ever know the exact number that they're looking for their formula, but I think we're doing the right thing.

[snorts]

You think it's both? I I'm on the same meetings, the rating calls, but I think it's two things. It is that the make the act of making some contribution annually is really important. We we get points for that. And then secondly, no one said it yet, but I mean they obviously look at what is the balance and it's like a savings account. It's just like if we were individuals and we were applying for a loan. The more savings you have, the more likely the bank will loan you money. It seems weird but it's true right we scores a a much lower risk lower risk the higher bond rating the higher bond rating the lower the interest rate is we have to pay so it's two things it's I think this is a mechanical thing of do making a transfer every year is very important I've heard the raiders talk about it makes sense and then also yeah slowly building up your balance to a point where you can say and they will look at that balance as a percentage you know that'll be the numeration the numerator and the denominator will be what is your total annual budget and that'll create a metric they look at how much do you have in rainy day as as a uh in ratio to your budget and obviously the more your budget goes up Craig's right that's why the number should go up both things are important I think

it's a safety net that fall back to is just like the net the net worth of company obviously the higher the net worth the longer longevity that they can withstand a downfall versus someone with no net worth, they're going to go out of business tomorrow. And cash is cash. So when when they look at like, you know, you also have assets except for pennies.

But when you get bond when you have a bond rating, they're not looking at your assets. They're looking at your cash. They really are. And are you are you spending all of each budget? Are you slowly putting everything back? So you obviously just That's what we hear the raiders talk about the rating calls. So, we hear them talk about the uh underwriters. I shouldn't call them writers. The underwriters. Well, it's no I look at our fund balance every month and I look at our ending balance and I go back and I look at it was at the beginning of the year and we're either equal to or higher than that. So, that tells me we're doing something right because we're increasing those balances versus going the other way and we're in in a declining mode. So, then

you're doing a lot of things right. you are doing a lot of things right and you're in good fiscal good fiscal position or you're not going to get that bond rating that you keep getting you guys are doing a lot of things right but c cash balances are cash is everything right are you spending less than your

yeah I was going to say that is the other thing and and we talk about it and that's why I provide that to you guys in the budget so year-over-year you can see are we increasing our cash balance so that is the danger to doing we don't want to transfer too much because it's still cash so you have cash in the rainy day and we have a cash balance. We still want that cash balance to go up a little bit because we that's again a good indicator to the rating agencies that we we are getting cash but if we contribute too much cash then the cash balance will accidentally go down in the rainy day fund will go up and so we don't want to do that either. We want to transfer enough that we're making a contribution to the rainy day but we are still getting a little bit of a bump in our cash balance as well. We want both of those indicators. Those are two positive indicators for us. Well, the other side of it is is we're fiscally responsible, but at the same time, if we were hoarding cash, then our taxpayers would say, why is our tax rate so high if you got all this excess funds?

Correct. So, it's a balance,

right? And I would say that we've been very fort fortunate or unfortunate, I don't know what the right way to say it, is over the last couple of years, we haven't been able to hire all the police officers that we want to. Well, that has helped some of our cash flow. That may not be the case going forward. I know Sean's got a strong pool of candidates. If he can fill all those vacancies or he fills more of them next year, our cash position or or our ability to underspend the budget may not be the same. Now, some of that is like Greg said, some of our cash balances are going up because we are bringing in more revenue than we're projecting. Um, but again, I want to be a little careful. I don't want to get overly zealous and try to transfer too much money either and then find out later we do hit a bump in the road because we were really just being fortunate because we again I don't want to

fortunate that we're not hiring police officers because we want to fill those positions but it's giving us flexibility in our budget and we have to be careful because we can't control what our state legislators do. Correct. So you're right. we we can't be overzealous and put more into it.

And that's a a good leadin probably to the second item. Um I know we talked about the uh I I changed the terminology a little bit and that was that uh financial solutions group Charlie and Greg's advice. Um instead of an insurance contingency fund, they are recommending we do it as an insurance reserve fund. And so you have an example of an ordinance that financial solutions group gave me from a county that did something similar to it. Financial solutions thought that it was a good idea for us to do that. They have been hearing about people uh with property and casualty having similar issues. So they said again just from a financial strength standpoint that that's a good idea. They suggested if we were going to do it that it not solely be a property and casualty insurance reserve fund. They said it wouldn't be bad if it allowed for health and um property and casualty and they said maybe that would help you in budget years if you did have a big I know we've been lucky with AIM that we haven't got big renewals but if we did get a big renewal that we'd have maybe money to help balance that out because the Senate enroll may not allow us to grow our revenue and so that would maybe help us be able to weather that storm and so uh they did suggest that that was a good idea. The one thing that they suggested that was a little different than what we talked about before was previously we talked about having the insurance reserve fund to be in within the rainy day fund and they actually suggested that we not do that. And so the reason for that is what we just talked about is the bond rating. The bond company wants to know that we're not touching that rainy day fund. Well, the whole purpose of an insurance reserve fund is that you want to have it to spend if you need it. And so they said they'd prefer for that insurance reserve fund to be outside of the rainy day fund. And so I think that would be their recommendation. So if if we were going to again these two discussions work together, right? So let's just say we can um if if the council is

interested in doing this insurance reserve fund, we'd have to pass an ordinance and create that fund. We'd make it a non-reverting fund. So whatever money goes in there, it stays in there and it stays in that fund. And then Julie would have another fund that she'd basically have to track and manage. Um again, it wouldn't it wouldn't be a substantial amount of work. I know Jul Julie's concerned about that, but um and so what I'd suggest if if that is the route we want to go that we may say so for example, if we think we have $250,000 this year that we think we can put into rainy day in insurance contingency that maybe we'd put $150,000 in rainy day and we put a h 100,000 in the insurance contingency. And so we'd put a little bit in both. And then every year, just like you guys are doing right now for rainy day fund, you would revisit it at the end of the year and say, "Now, if we got a great insurance renewal and maybe we don't need a lot, we're like, okay, this year was a good year for our property and casualty. Let's just put 50,000 in the insurance reserve fund." You guys can make that decision. Or if eventually you're like, "Hey, we get to the million8 in the rainy day fund and Greg says, "Hey, you've you've got good." Well, then maybe we put 200,000 in the insurance contingency fund or the insurance reserve fund. So, we'd have the ability and basically just like we're doing now at the end of every year, we would evaluate just based on where we're at financially and make a decision to then transfer to either of those two funds, however we would want to do it. Does MSG or possibly have recommendations for an amount to either target and maybe get to or that we should attempt to put in for this year?

Um they did not um you know our renewal is our renewal was like $468,000. So somewhere between zero and again with the goal maybe eventually to be to have a half million dollars in there that we could cover a full year's premium would be ideal. Again, I don't think we can jump to that immediately, but if we made that a goal like over the next four to five years to try to get to half million dollars, I think enough to cover our and again that's going to change every year, right, as our premium goes up, but to try to have a year's worth of coverage, I think would probably I they didn't give me a specific number, Robert, I place to start.

Yeah, it just be somewhere to start for now. That's what I was trying to back into is what should that number be and trying to look at what our increases were year after year or like Ryan said, we talked about what's the annual premium. We can cover the annual premium one year. Well, we can't get there in one year, but like we said earlier, give us a a threeyear road map, four-year road map, we'll get there. And then if we have a year where the rates go down then we don't have to contribute to it

or we do and at some point we might be able to self-insure a portion of what we're doing. I still think it's a good idea that we try to hit. I like the goal of one, but as with anything, it's the offramp. You're the cash fl that was the individual doesn't matter that long how long of an offramp you're going to have when problems arise, right? Longer that offer is is ideal. And I think a good start at one year and this is something new. I feel like give us a couple years to get there and then right reevaluate. Maybe we do need to grow it to two. Maybe we don't need a whole year that that case. But right,

I'd say for now I I like the idea these insurance premiums increasing for some of these other communities scares the out of me. Me too. You don't want to be in a position where they say you're not insurable this year and here we are. [clears throat] Well, they don't give us any time to make an adjustment, right? So, I think I think it's good financial help to find out what find out what those numbers are. Find out what our numbers are going to be that we might be able to dump into one or both of these. Is it something that we should budget for?

No. So remember that's that's the danger that Dan brought up at the last meeting because if we put it into actually our budget then that we would have that would negatively impact our ability to budget and so we would rather not do it that way. We'd rather do it this way that at the end of the year it's savings that we've made or under spending that we have that we're transferring versus yes the DGF could then say you don't really need that money so we're not going to approve your levy at that number. We're going to reduce your levy and eliminate that number. So we don't we don't want to give them that opportunity to have it in the budget. Right. And that's when Dan was saying, right, maybe put it under the rainy day, but now our financial guys Correct. Okay.

Which is why Dan suggested that because that's that's exactly what the DGF would do. They'd say you can't just you can't budget to boost your levy just so that you can try to save money. That's not the intent. So they'll say, "We're going to reduce your your tax rate to take that money away. We don't want to give them that opportunity." So reserve, you use the word reserve indicating or signaling that you don't really want to spend it, right? Then they don't count. Okay. And that would be your intention. That is the intent. Yeah. Okay. Do we need to create this fun before the end of the year to do this or we we should be able to do this following year?

Yeah. What we would probably do is at on your meeting on the 18th, we would put a resolution and normally what we do in the resolution is we say uh the clerk treasurer shall transfer the money before March 31st. And so between now and then we'll create the fund, get that approved, and then that would give Julie time to then transfer the money into the fund.

Correct. Exactly. Yep. And that would be again I don't I don't know what the under spending is yet so I don't I'm you know I'm throwing out I'm making up numbers not knowing what it is. I know I think those numbers are probably realistic but until we actually close November and we and we project out our payrolls and make sure we know where we're going to be at at the end of the year. I I' I'd hate to to do that yet. But again I think by the 18th Julie and I could probably have a recommendation for you guys. Right, Julie? Oh.

Okay. Thank you. Any other topics? I'm not a my thought process is that this particular fund set up as much as happy example gave 100,000 Okay. Anything else? Brian Dam. No. Okay. We'll go ahead and adjourn.

We'll go ahead and call the Avon Council meeting December 4th to order. Please stand to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Robert Pope present. Bill Holland Greg Zusen present. Don Lden present. Jason Pucket present.

First item on the agenda tonight is the proclamation for the marching black and gold. Tonight we have Matt Haroff and um Come on up. And Scott Windam, Superintendent Scott Windam in the audience.

He doesn't like he's the face. All right. I've had the privilege of reading this again this year. Um, so it's a proclamation by the town of Avon. It's a black and gold day proclamation. Whereas the town of Avon recognizes participation in high school academics, artistic programming, and competition that creates opportunities for students to develop as leaders and experience personal growth. And whereas the Avon Community School Corporation has built and sustained nationally recognized education and music programs illustrated by the sustained success of the Avon marching black and gold that have enriched and distinguished our community. Whereas the mission of the Avon Community School Corporation, all belong, learn, and grow is embodied in the high level of artistic excellence demonstrated by the students and directors of the Avon marching black and gold. Whereas the Avon marching black and gold has won an unparalleled 18th Indiana State School Music Association state championship during the fall 2025 season in their third consecutive title. And whereas the Avon Marching Black and Gold has won the 2025 Bands of America Grand National Championship for their sixth national title and their second three repeat in the program's history, making them the only band in the nation to earn two three repeats. And whereas the Avon Town Council wishes to recognize the achievements of the Avon marching black and gold, we now therefore the town council of Avon do hereby proclaim that Friday, December the 12th as Black and Gold Day proclaimed this fourth day of December by your Avon town council. Congratulations [applause]

[clears throat]

also just say first of all um um Dr. Windham is he he comes he says um uh he does all the work it's like without doc without Dr. with him. He did a lot of work this fall as well. So, um you know, without his support, without administration support, you know, we we are not the mighty Avon. That's for sure. Um you know, thank you for this [snorts] means a lot and we we are all we've been talking about this a lot where we say we don't want to take this for granted um for getting things like this and you guys noticing um the ban and all that. But when I was driving um here, I was just thinking that um you know, to us, you know, this is more than just a band award. This is a school award. This is a community award. And we hope that everybody feels a part of it. Um [clears throat] you know, when the Pacers did well this summer or when the Colts won the Super Bowl, we all say we won the Super Bowl. Um we drafted Caitlyn Clark. You know, that's that's our team. So, I hope you know and I'm sure you guys do, but I hope the community members say that we won a Bands of America National Championship. That's our team. You know, our tennis team, we went to state finals. You know, it's us. So, I I I hope that um that we all say that because I mean, I didn't coach the Colts when they won the Super Bowl, and I certainly didn't play, but we won the Super Bowl. So, you know, I mean, I hope our community members um think of it as as a we thing. We went to Macy's last year. We won 18 state championships. So, uh I I just I just hope that that that's the case because it's true. You know, it's our team. It's our town and we do it the Avon way, which is just outworking everybody. And I think that's our our culture. I think that's our personality of our of our community. And it is an honor to uh um represent our community, our school, and and all that. And and obviously, I mean, we're biased, but we got the best kids

in the world. So that's that's the most important thing. But thank you all so much. This means so much. So I appreciate you. [applause] [clears throat] We're gonna keep it the meeting. Do you guys want to do a photo? Or you can keep the meeting going and I'll go do a photo with them. Sorry. [laughter]

Next on the agenda is the agenda. There's any discussion? Make a motion to approve the consent agenda including the check register for December 4th, the executive session memoranda for uh November 20th and the approval of minutes for November 20th as presented. Second, Jason Pucket, four, Don Lden, four, Greg Susan, four, Robert Pton, four, Bill Holland, four. Uh,

we'll move on with department updates. Who wants to start us off? Linda Albrand, planning director. Um, we'll start with the BZA. Um, in November or, yeah, November, they approved one variance for an accessory structure for a house on Avon Avenue at 100. And next month, they'll be hearing a variance for the rise development for a different use to go in there than what's permitted. Um, in November, the plan commission approved the comprehensive plan, the amended plan that you had sent back to the plan commission. They did approve it and they also approved at that meeting the Chase Bank Plat and Development Plan and then the Gibbs Park welcome center on Gibbs Road. Uh, next plan commission in December on December 22nd will um be a short meeting because the three items on the meeting are all requesting a continuance. That's the Parkplace commercial lots. Um then the former Lazaro office building which is about 600 ft east of Reagan on the north side of 36. Um that's a proposal for some commercial strip center buildings. And then the Walmart on South Avon Avenue will all be requesting a continuence to January uh January 26. And then um Paul went on some training this this past few weeks ago uh to Madison, Wisconsin to do some training as engineering for non-engineers because he does a lot of technical reviews. We wanted him to get a little more training. So he did that. And then I want to update you on my Girl Scouts that were here for the B city that did over 80 hours of work for this community. They earned their silver award. So they are officially silver awarded Girl Scouts. So thank you for that. Thank you very much.

Good evening. Shelby Pride, parks and recreation director. Uh we have some big events coming up. As you may have noticed, it's Christmas time. Uh our tree lighting is going to be on Saturday, this next Saturday, um from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. We will have carriage rides until 7:00 p.m. though. So, if you stay and hang around the park, we are going to have three horses and uh carriages going around the lake. So, um stay and hang out until 7:00 if you want. Um the next weekend, December 13th, we have an event. It's called Santa's Workshop. Um it's the first year we've done this, so registration isn't great right now. So, I would encourage anyone that knows anybody kids that has kids, grandkids, to just sign up. It's so much fun. It's going to be so much fun. We've got cookie kits for them to decorate. And then uh starting December 26th through January 31st uh is our Christmas tree drop off. That is um up across from the playground on the hill up here. Um it is live trees only. No artificial trees, please. We've had that happen. Um yeah. Um [clears throat] our maintenance team built three new Christmas displays around the park. Um, now that it's dark at 5:00 p.m. you can see them much sooner. Um, out the window there is a new uh addition. The lightw walk up um what we call the Crawford property, but going up to the church parking lot. And then it's not set up quite yet. They just finished it today. A new photo op that is a uh gigantic ornament that they built from hand. It's very impressive. For sports, uh we are going to do our end of the year thank you dinner for our 15 commissioners. um in two weeks um just as a hey thank you your your volunteers this is what we can give you back. Um so I'm looking forward to going to that. The indoor facility is being used almost daily. I knew you guys would be excited to hear that. Um so baseball

offseason um are going to be in there. Well, they are in there. Um softball is in there now. This is the first year that they've been able to use it and do like an offseason kind of thing. And then cheerleading. So, basketball cheer is in there as well. Um, our 8U softball wreck team competed in a tournament a couple weeks ago and the uh the coach of this is on the PRBC and he told us last night that uh they won the entire tournament as a wreck team, not a travel team in kind of that travel team kind of league um with with kids that are, you know, really skilled and talented. Um, so I just wanted to give them a shout out. That is fantastic. I'm very proud of them. Um, and then starting in 2026, our sports director, Justin Thompson, will be in the leadership Hendricks County class.

Yay.

Thank you. Sean Stoops, chief of police. [clears throat] um our uh annual Hendrickx County toy drive for the uh for the police departments. Um we're still accepting uh new unwrapped toys through December 16th and then we plan on delivering all of those down to the law enforcement academy on December 17th so they can start uh providing those to the the children and the families that need those. Um our hiring process is pretty much completed now. Um we started with about 62 people that showed up. We had about 50 people that passed the physical agility and went on to the written test. From there, we had 35 people that made it to the uh structured oral interview phase. And then after that, um we now have a list, final list of 29 that passed all of that. Um, and that will be presented to the merit board uh on Monday, December 8th, 7 p.m. at that meeting uh for their consideration to certify that list uh so that we can hopefully begin to hire uh some people off that that list as soon as possible. Our current Indiana law enforcement cadetses will be graduating next week on Friday, December 12th. Um, I don't know that they've actually I'm not sure what the location of that is going to be, if it's going to be at the Planefield High School or uh Morrisville. Uh, but it most likely will be at one of those two locations. And next Thursday, [clears throat and cough] December 11th at 6 p.m. at the Avon Police Department, we're going to have a short ceremony u for some of our retirees um that we've had through the years. We've never had any kind of um memorabilia or anything of that nature

to just hang up in our building to show uh gratitude for their service. Um but we have seven of those now um that have plaques that we're hanging up in our training room. Um and they're pretty nice plaques. Um they're bronze plaques with um images of the officer on there as well as some information about them. Uh we're going to do a short ceremony and dedication to the building on Thursday. Uh right now I think we're going to have probably six of those seven can be there. Uh one was lives out of state, but he happened to be coming through the state yesterday. So [clears throat] he actually stopped in there this morning. We did a private ceremony just for him. Uh so that was uh good to see him. Um and we would like to extend that invite to all of you or anyone else that would like to come. It's open to anybody that wants to be there and see that. Um, that

Sean, did you say what time that was? 6 PM December 11th, Thursday. And that's about all I have right now. Any questions? And the LEA graduation is also next Thursday. It's on December 12th. It's a Friday. On Friday. Okay. Yeah. I'll be happy to share that location with you as soon as I get that. Thank you. Thank you.

I'm going to take it next um Julie Locer, clerk treasurer. Uh tonight you have in front of you for approval the um 2025 additional appropriations. Um that is I just want to remind you just revenue we have received that we're adding in additional revenue that we weren't expecting. Um I am working right now with Calvin. Um I have done my portion of closing the books and Calvin's working on his portion closing the books for November. Um we have to close our books. We should be done tomorrow or Monday and then we'll work on our reappropriations together to get to you hopefully by the middle of next week so that you have it in plenty of time for your next so our reappropriation um for [clears throat] anyone who doesn't know is we're basically fixing our account lines for the end of the year. We can't have any account lines negative at the end of the year. So that's just fixing that. Um, we only have one check register left for the end of the year. So, I'm crossing my fingers for a quorum on that last meeting of the month. Um, I have sent emails to all the department heads to make sure that they get anything they need paid in and then we'll start working on our POS and stuff like that for 2026 going into next year. And I'm closing my books. We do have two payrolls when you get your numbers um next week in your packets. We have two payrolls left and it'll give you kind of a better idea of how we're looking for rainy day and insurance and stuff like that for the end of the year. And Ryan is going to take over here in a second, give you a public works update. He'll get those numbers to you then as soon as I get him those reports. So now for Ryan.

Yeah, thank you. I'm going to fill in for Steve. Steve is on vacation, so he's enjoying some time in Florida. Um, so I did have a couple of things. I did send an email to all of you. So hopefully you all saw it. Uh we were awarded our CCMG grant. So uh great job to Steve and his team for putting that application together. Uh we were a little surprised. We didn't really expect that uh till later next year. So it was nice that we quickly turned around. Uh INDOT has told us to proceed with bidding it. So Steve and his team is is working bidding that out. So again, it was just short of a million dollar grant which will allow us to do $2 million uh in paving next year. So we'll have another great year of paving. Um the roundabout, thank you, Don Greg. And Bill is a little late, but he did make it. We did do our ribbon cutting on the roundabout at County Road 900 East. Uh it looks great. It's working great. Um so appreciate again everyone's hard work on that and getting it open. It was like a flash ribbon cutting. We did it. It maybe the shortest ribbon cutting in the history. I don't think if we stood out there much longer, we probably would have gotten run over. So,

uh again, it would appreciate getting that done and getting that open. Quick question on that. Yes, sir. [clears throat] Did we determine the two left turn lanes or just left turn lanes because the second one has a straight through or did we make that adjustment?

We did. I I followed up with Steve on that and Steve said INDOT made that change. So if you recall, it really comes down to a signal functionality. And so normally INDOT would not want to break the signal because if you have a through left, that means the other side of the road can't go at the same time. So normally in your in your entire cycle length, INDOT doesn't want to break that because then they have four cycles that they have to split the time into. But for some reason in this scenario, INDOT wanted to do that. And so that's why it ended up as a through left. And so INDOT made us make that change. We had originally designed it to be a through or yeah, through right in a dual left turn lane. So So for some reason, Steve wasn't sure. We could we'll certainly follow up with INDOT and try to figure out why they made that decision, but that was what Steve explained. It was not the town's decision. INDOT gave that directive. Well, you think they would have at least communicated that to us?

Yep. Um, the Raceway Road, we actually had a a utility progress meeting on Raceway Road. As you guys know, that project has been uh the delay of that has been stalled as a result of utility relocations. Uh, we do have quite a few utilities that are getting out of the way or they're at least working. And so, that's nice. Um, we still have um AES still needs to move. The water company's going to do the closure. Uh they need a closure. So we're going to close right before we start in we'll probably close it in March and the water company will do their relocations. So it's consecutive with with our work that we're going to do when we close the road. Uh but we are getting there and we're on track to to start April. So uh stay tuned for that one. Um I did also give you guys a heads up. We did get our bids on the Dan Jones phase three. You guys will actually see that at your next meeting. Again, we got great bids. Uh the low bid was $8 million and the engineer's estimate was 9,600,000. So, we saved about 1.6 million, which is great because as you guys know too, we've had ridiculous amounts of utility relocations, which is all the work that's going on up there are all utilities at this point. None of it's us. So, uh we went way over budget on utility relocations. So, that savings will be helpful to the the RDC will very much appreciate that they save some money on that. So, uh, that's moving forward as well. Um, uh, Betsy wanted me to report that we did $62,000 in rightaway permits this month. So, that's incredible. Uh, Joink was here talking to you guys at your work session. 11 of those permits were uh, pulled by Joink. Uh, our inspection staff uh, our MS4 uh, crew, Drew, did 77 inspections, MS4 inspections. So, these are erosion control inspections and Eli did 31. Uh, Eli installed 39 signs uh over the over the month as well. So,

that's the public works report. I'm happy to answer any questions. Any update on the Dan Jones bridge over the CSX tracks?

I haven't That's a great question. I saw John on Wednesday, but I forgot to ask him. I mean, they look like they're ready for pavement. The problem is all the asphalt plates are closed. So, um I we did get that word last week that asphalt's essentially done until the weather gets better. So, I'm not sure if sometimes they can pay to fire up the asphalt plants, it's pretty expensive, but I think the way the county bid the job, I don't think there was any time constraint. So, my guess is it's going to sit there like that till the spring and they'll pave it in the spring and then make the traffic switch.

Thank you. I I um am leaison to the commissioners this year and they've not brought that up in the last I don't know six meetings I'd say probably. So no update from them on the bridge and the status of it right now. Ryan I have a question on the county road 100 and raceway that's been delayed a long time. Do we does that cost go up to us because of the utility delay and them not getting their work finished?

It can. We've been working with the contractor that got it to try to avoid. So that's what there's no there can be time delays which the contractor has basically told us they didn't object. So I I don't believe we're going to get hit with time delays. The other one then is cost escalations. And so Steve actually worked with the contractor to try to order all their materials so that they've basically established all their orders. So they're getting it at this year's prices. So normally if they'd see a 5% price increase, they'd come back and tell us they want us to pay that. So we think we've worked with the contractor to minimize those. We will likely get some. I I would expect we'll get some as a result of those delays, but um it shouldn't be as bad as we've seen on some other projects in the past. Are the utility companies contractually bound to have to move within a certain amount of time? Can we bill them for their delays?

Oh, it would be so nice if we could do that, Don. But I'll just ask. Yeah. No, it's a great question and you guys know from this in the past. Um, you know, it's very challenging to get utilities to do it. The the teeth are not really in the legislation to allow us to do that. So, uh, typically you we could try, but it's a lot of effort for not a probably a very good outcome. So, no is the answer, unfortunately. Okay. I thought that'd be the case. Um, any other departments?

No. Moving on to council comment and liaison reports. Bill, great. The only thing I have is what Linda covered was the plan commission. Nothing for me. [clears throat and cough]

Nothing really for me to report. We did have a special meeting for the Hendrickx County Recycling District, but it was just a you know, they normally meet quarterly, but they had to throw in an extra meeting and it was just some internal business. So, nothing really to report. So, we'll move on to resolution 2025-33, the fiscal plan for the reserve at Shiloh Creek Section 2. Yeah, as you guys are aware, anytime we do an annexation, we're actually required by law to prepare a fiscal plan, which is how the town plans to provide services to the area. It also provides anybody, the property owners, it provides them information on what the impact to them is as a result of annexation as well. Uh the plan was prepared by Financial Solutions Group, our financial adviser, and uh it's for your consideration tonight. I'm happy to answer any questions.

I move we adopt resolution 2025-33, fiscal plan for the reserve at Shiloh Creek Phase 2 as presented. Second. Thank you, Julie. Robert Pope, four. Bill Holland, four. Greg Zusen, four. Don Lden four. Jason Pucket four. Next is final reading of ordinance 2025-30, additional appropriations.

Yeah, as you guys recall at your last meeting, we did do a public hearing uh for the additional appropriations. That's actually required by law. Uh just a reminder, additional appropriations are not necessarily uh overspending of the budget. actually every situation in this case is uh the additional spending that we're asking for were for grants that we received uh over the year and so we're basically putting that authorization to spend the money for that grant back uh for all of those projects. I'm happy to walk you guys through any of uh the expenses if you want. Um but we would recommend approval. Happy to answer any questions.

I just I have one quick question. And I just need expla an explanation on what the under the general fund the transfer of a4 million that is our rainy day fund transfer. So again we actually make that transfer and then we have to pull it back out of cash. So that's that's why it's the transfer to the rainy day fund. Thank you. Is the capital outlay the million18905 is that the ready [clears throat] grant for Eastern gay? Did we ever receive that money? The million18905 was our CCMG grant. That was our money from INDOT. So,

the ready re Yeah, the ready reimbursement is in there as well, Greg. It's in the tiff reimbursement and it was for $442,885. And yes, we did receive all of that money. We got it all. We got it all. Yep. Yeah. [clears throat] 877,000. That's ready one. We have not received our ready to money yet. Okay. Which is for the civic center. We're still working with IEDC on that.

Someone want to make a motion? I make a motion that we approve ordinance 2025-30 town of Avon additional appropriation as presented. Second. Thank you. Julie, roll call, [clears throat] please. Jason Pucket, four. Bill Holland, four. Don Lden four. Greg Zusen four. Robert Pope four. Next is the public hearing and introduction of 2025-32. You missed the 26 holiday. Sorry. Final reading of ordinance 2025-31, the 2026 holidays.

Yeah, this is um just the it's the final reading for the holiday ordinance for town staff. I'm happy to answer any questions. It is the same number as holidays we had last year. I move we adopt ordinance 2025-31 the 2026 holidays as presented. Second. Thank you. Julie Greg Zusen four. Robert Pope four. Bill Holland four. Jason Pucket four. Don Lden four.

Next again public hearing and introduction of ordinance 2025-32 the annexation reserve at Shiloh Creek section 2. Um is there any conversation before we open a public Um, I'll do just a quick introduction. So, again, we we talked about this earlier on the resolution. Uh, the town council didn't accept an annexation petition from John Lozaro, who's the owner of the reserve at Shiloh Creek. Section one was already in town, and he is requesting that section two be annexed. Uh, the reserve at Shiloh Creek is on County Road 1050. It's on the east side of 1050 and it's just south of 100 North and I forget, Rolling Brook Drive or something. It's just north of Rolling Brook Drive. And this is you guys introduced the ordinance and you're required to do a public hearing. Uh we did advertise for the public hearing today. So you guys can open up the public hearing.

Okay, we'll go ahead at 7:29 and open up the public hearing. There is no one coming forward. So we will go ahead and close public hearing at also 7:29 and we'll consider the ordinance as introduced. Next is introduction of ordinance 2025-33 adopting the 2026 salary ordinance.

Yeah. Every year the town council is required prior to uh December 31st, the town council has to adopt a salary ordinance which establishes the maximum pay for all the uh staff who work for the town. And so you have that before you. It does reflect the budget. You will notice this is a slight uh change in the way that it looks in the format. And so I I'll just briefly talk about it. Um, we do have a max pay, a min pay. Um, we've also added the FLSA status, which is whether they're exempt or non-exempt. And then, uh, also to make it more clear for the clerk treasurer's office. We've added in where the funds will be paid for. That also is for the town council to understand too, you know, when we go through the budget, we talk about where employees are paid from. And so, this does show uh where all of our employees are paid from. Again, hopefully this makes life easier for our payroll staff, but also makes it easier for the town council to understand uh where we go. The maximum pay and the minimum pay does reflect uh the compensation analysis and program that we work that I worked on uh this year. And so that is reflected and does match the budget. So I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have. This is just an introduction.

No question. Can I just [clears throat] uh I know this is something for years uh these councils have wanted um sort of a merit-based uh pay increase system and um this looks great. Um excited for what's to come with this. Um and I know it I know it wasn't easy so I'm just kudos and and thanks. Great great job. Any [snorts] other discussion?

Does this include or what do we have to do to include your increase in this document? You don't need to do anything. the executive session two weeks ago. Did everybody turn in their review? Um, I got two reviews, but you guys don't have to actually set my salary today. And if you guys want to do that, you can do it in an executive session. So, you can leave in here. My pay has to be between the minimum and the maximum. And then you guys are solely responsible for determining what my actual pay is. So, you guys could do that in an executive session. Sorry. Go ahead.

Discuss it. You can discuss it in case you get to vote on it in here or determine it prior to the adoption of the salary ordinance and establish that as the max. So really what you have it in here already because it's it's you're going at the maximum amount for everybody. So it's already in there. We just have to now later on say this is what you're going to actually get and it can't exceed the maximum.

Right. Under the compensation plan, you've you've get you've given authority of the town manager and the department heads to make certain decisions, but for the town manager salary, you've reserved that to yourself. So, you can discuss the town manager's pay in executive session, but you can't make any decisions in executive session. So, you have two options. You could have an executive session before your next meeting and then say say in that me vote in that in your next meeting what you want the town manager salary to be as I think you should do that in fairness to your town manager. I don't know what he's making.

Not vote in that meeting but just discuss it in vote it vote on it at the second December meeting of the town in the executive.

Not in the executive session. you're not allowed to take a vote or make a decision in the executive session. And the other option you have you have is if you decide what you wanted to do and you don't want to take a separate vote, you could simply change the salary ordinance line item for the town manager to be the number you want it to be, not a range. Those are your two options, but you're going to need to do that. Salary ordinance must be approved by the end of the year. So you really have one more shot at this or you have to have a special meeting sometime the last week of December which you may may or may not want to do but you have to get this issue resolved all the salary issues resolved by the end of the year. Actually not by the end of the year because then the salary orders has to be uploaded to gateway. So December 27th at the latest probably right.

Okay. Don't wait till the 31st. it because it has to be processed up the chain. Does that help you? Mhm. Okay. At our executive session, there was a number that was mentioned just to keep in line with um CPI as was actually it wasn't CPI, it was Midwest CPI um as what's stated in Ryan's agreement. Um, I don't want to go to another executive session this year, so I'm trying to get this done right now. Can for to give guidance, can we give that number as Ryan's salary for next year so we can get this done at the next council meeting?

If if I'm correct, Ryan said what it was, but then it really goes by the December one or November one, and they didn't have that yet. That's fair enough. Ryan, do you have an updated has has our federal government got its head out of its ass and actually you said 3.1 share information? The September one came out and it was 3.1. That's I think it was more I think the previous one was 2.8. Okay. Okay. I thought it was 3.4. Sorry. And again, if if your guys decision, my contract says it's the Midwest CPI. So, if that's what you say you want it to be, I will plug that number in and that's fine by me.

That's the suggestion I'm making is for him to plug in what we've agreed the Midwest CPI and that's the new salary. Uh have that included for our ordinance uh at our next meeting. That's what the Midwest CPI Well, I had in my review I plugged in 4.46 and that was even before I knew it went up to 3.1. So,

and Greg's isn't the only one that needs to be decided specifically, too. It would be clerk treasurer as well. True. That's it.

[snorts] I can't remember the numbers. I'm uncomfortable. I'm sorry, Julie. I'm uncomfortable stating something for yours. That's that's that's chalk that up to my head. Not the heart. I can't remember what those numbers from that convers actually. I don't think we discussed that in the executive session because we can't. Yeah. No, but mine cannot like Ryan. I' I've got your your your range here, Robert. I would tell you that the minimum pay that's shown there is her current salary. You obviously the statute says you can't pay her less than you currently pay her. So, the minimum that's shown there is Julie's current salary.

Thank you. do that.

I I would like consensus or guidance because I think yeah,

I I'm [clears throat] a fan of the CPI model. That's um it's buying power. You made a dollar last year and price of everything went up and you still only made a dollar. you're making less money, you have less buying power. Um, I I'm I'm a fan of all things being equal, you should at least get a raise at the rate of inflation. We I think we we really bought in on that for Ryan's and put it in his contract. I I'm if if that's what we're here uh discussing, I'm I like the idea of doing the same thing for for for everyone. But if we're here arguing about the clerk treasurer salary, I'd say the 3.1% uh above her current pay is fair. Also, the other um thing that I'd want to say in this salary ordinance that was published in this, you know, for this meeting on our documents um involves the town council. So, this one's showing a Ryan is it a 3.1%.

In the budget, we reflected a 3% increase. We didn't obviously have the CPI at that time. So, the number that I'm showing in here for the town council uh was based on a 3% increase. Okay. So, those are all things that we'd have to narrow or focus in on before the next meeting so that we're all, you know, we know where we're at and what's being published and what we're voting on. Correct me if I'm wrong. We need to give them the guidance to bring us back the ordinance, the final ordinance at our next meeting,

right? Uh, [clears throat] and I'll let me go on record in saying Julie, you've you've made this community millions of dollars in interest. This that there was no judgment on performance. This was merely all right. All things being flat and even, um, I would I would make an argument I think you deserve some of that billions of dollars. Some uh, and I can prove it in in in in compensation for the hard work you've done. Um, but I again I'm a fan of the CPI as just being flat out equal. Um, I would I would be in favor if anyone was supporting um a higher number.

I'm good with 3.1 um as well. I don't need a town council to get a raise personally. Yep. That's that one's irrelevant to me. Okay. I I look at the 3.1 as an an average performer. Sure. But I and I think our town manager is above average. So that's why when I did mine, it ended up being 4.46. But that was just me. Bill, do you have any comments on yours?

I I agree with the status quo for the council. actually what

sounds like there's at least a little bit of consensus here. Um, I would I'm just going to throw this out there and just say if we have consensus, would we want to suspend the rules and go ahead and vote tonight or do we want to wait until the next meeting? Do we do we need a an actual edited ordinance to reference? I I feel like that that's that's the point of consternation I have is I'm not what I'm seeing in front of me is not I think what we're talking about and so I'm a little uncomfortable. I think if you give Ryan

number like if you say it's 3.1 p him where 3.1 me you guys decide like what you just say he can quickly go back update reprint. It's it's just in a document that just needs that section needs updated. So that's up to you guys what you want to do. You make the motion based on those updated figures that have just been discussed and then it's just

that's right. You could You could vote to accept. You could suspend the rules. And if you voted unanimously to consider it tonight, you could do so. And then in your motion, you could say move we approve except for the town manager and the clerk treasure at 3.1% or whatever number you want. You could do that. And then the clerk treasur will make the ordinance that you sign conform to the motion. So there is a way to do it without doing the calculation quite yet because you'd be directing her to make the calculation. And I would just say if if that's the route we go, we would say council no increase if that's been the kind of the consensus during discussion.

I would just those are the three things we're changing is correct or discussing changing at this point. Well, let's I'll do the motion to suspend the rules and we'll see if that you don't want this to happen. No, it has to be unanimous. All five of us have to vote in favor of this. You want to suspend the rules to consider second reading on the salary ordinance is how you I make a motion that we suspend the rules to consider the final reading of ordinance 2025-33, the salary ordinance. Second. Okay. Robert Pope four. Bill Holland four.

Greg Zusen four. Don Lden four. Jason Pucket four. Okay.

Okay. So, we have the rule suspended. So, now something's going to You want me to make the motion? Motion to approve something. I'll make a motion that we um approve the salary ordinance 2025-33 with the amendments that we provide a 3.1% increase for the clerk treasurer's position and the town manager's position um but give the town council members and town council president no raise. Second. All right, we have a first and a second. So we'll move on to a roll call. Okay. Jason Pucket, four. Robert Pope, four. Bill Holland, four. Greg Zusen, four.

Don Laden, four. [snorts]

All right. Introduction of ordinance 2025-34, the 25 end of year reappropriation ordinance. Again, it's an introduction. Yeah, just a reminder, Julie talked about this in her opening. The reappropriation ordinance is basically the end ofear ordinance to move funds around to make sure we don't have any negative funds at the end of the year. You'll notice in your packets, it's actually blank at this point and that's because that information hasn't been prepared yet. We got to close November books as Julie explained. Uh we will have that for you on your meeting on the 18th. Uh but this is just an introduction. So the final reading will be at your next meeting. I will give it to you.

Okay. Any discussion? If not, we'll show it introduced. 2025-34. Moving on. Introduction ordinance 2025-35 amended. Amending and readdopting the investment policy.

Yes. As a fiscal body, you're required to adopt an investment policy which complies with Indiana statute Indiana code 5139. purpose of this law is to uh shield municipalities and keep them away from risky uh investments. And [snorts] so your policy mirrors the language in the state law. We're not trying to do anything fancy here. We're just trying to make sure that we follow those same rules. Uh you have to read this every four years and you will need to do so by March of 2026. We're trying to get you on a schedule where we know that this is going to be done in December. The we have made minor technical changes in the um in the ordinance which are shown in red and they are the simply the changes the state legislature has made to the state law. Um we've not taken any liberties with that. This is introduction only. Be happy to answer any questions

questions or discussion. Okay, we'll go ahead and show it introduced. Moving on to legal counsel report. I have nothing further. Thank you. And public comment. The only person here shaking their head. No. Moving on to council comment. Council calendar.

Um just a reminder, I think Shelby did talk about it. Christmas tree lighting this Saturday, 4 to 6 pm. Uh Christmas tree lighting and Santa. So, hope you guys can join us. Uh, your last meeting of the year is December 18th at 700 p.m. I did want to mention Suzanne did a lot of hard work and so I forgot to mention it during the work session, but as you know, we're we've asked for board and commission applications. So, Suzanne worked diligently to get a list of who we had in all the applications. We've got twice as many as are there, but most of them we're finding do not live in town who are applying. So, uh, Suzanne has been kind enough to respond to them and let them know a lot of them are applying for things and there may be some things they're eligible for. So, if you see township written on the application, that means they live in the township. And then Suzanne highlighted which board and commission they would be eligible for. So, really there's only two that they're eligible for. It's the EDC and it's the parks council. And even on the parks council, there has to be a balance of in town versus out of town. So, most of those township ones probably won't apply, but we still wanted to give them to you.

Um, stormwater could be someone out of town as well. Uh, even though I think we would recommend against appointing someone who's out of town unless they work for or represent a non-residential customer. So, we currently do have that right now. We have one of our people who works for Phoenix Fabricators and he is representative but he's again he represents a business that is a rateayer to that utility. So um Ryan, [clears throat] did I get everything Suzan? We have these electronically those applications. Uh we could send them to you electronically as well. Yes, absolutely. Thanks. Even Robert. Yeah.

I don't know Dan joke. All right. So, the next meeting will be December 18th at 7 PM. And because we were able to come to agreement, we don't have an executive session before that. All right. Meeting adjourned.