Town Council - Regular Meeting

All right. Good evening. Welcome to the Tuesday, August 18th, 2024 Oak Island Town Council meeting. I now call it to order.

Councilman Chulo will do the invocation and the pledge.

And at the end of the pledge, I am going to ask that you remain standing for a moment. Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Please bow your heads. Gracious and loving God, we come before you with grateful hearts, thankful for this beautiful community you have placed in our care. Fill this chamber with your presence tonight and let every decision made here be rooted in genuine love, love for our neighbors and the sacred responsibility of serving them. Grant our mayor, council, and staff the wisdom to lead with humility and the compassion to always put the residents of Oak Island first. May your peace, our words, and your love be the foundation of all we do. In your holy name we pray. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Ladies and gentlemen, the reason I ask you to remain standing is I like that. passed away, former town employee, and eight-year councilman. Thank you. At this time I'm going to ask Councilmember Bynum to read a proclamation

This is a resolution in memoriam remembering the late Sheila Bell. Whereas the town council and citizens of the town of Oak Island are greatly saddened by the death of Sheila Bell, former council member and longtime town employee, on Friday, August 7, 2026. Whereas Sheila Bell served our community for eight years as town council member, elected in 2015, and 2019, and whereas Sheila Bell also worked in local government for 25 years, most of it here right in Oak Island, serving in several positions, including the challenging role of the tax collector in her own hometown. And whereas during her time of town council, member Sheila Bell helped navigate the town through many storms, some which were caused by weather, and whereas throughout her time in Oak Island, Sheila saw much change, she takes with her a wealth of knowledge

in town history, whereas she earned the respect, admiration, and the high regard of all who had the pleasure of working with her.

Sorry, I can't read. The town of Oak Island has sustained a great loss in her death. We firmly believe that Sheila's parting words to the town would have been, love ya, mean it. Now, therefore, be it resolved on behalf of the town of Oak Island, its citizen staff, the mayor, the town council, by this resolution, public record, extend sincere regret to Sheila Bell's family members for their loss and the hope that her family will be consoled by the memories of her life and achievement and the ongoing visible signs of the impact of the Oak Island community. Be it furthermore resolved that this resolution be made part of the official minutes of the town of Oak Island and that it is an official copy of this expression of our deepest sympathy presented to her family. We would ask if any of her friends and family would like to come receive a copy.

We will now begin the main portion of the meeting. We will be starting off with a public hearing. The purpose of this public hearing is to receive citizen comments on proposed amendment to the town ordinance, Code of Ordinance Section 8-197, the right of appeal. Do we have any presentation or anything on that? No.

We do not. If you'd like to hear from Mr. Hornick just briefly about the purpose of the ordinance amendment.

As you may have noticed on your agenda this evening, we have an appeal or two from minimum housing determinations. And the statute provides that appeals are to be made to the Housing Appeals Board and Tonight, this ordinance, we're amending the ordinance so that the town council can in fact act as the Housing Code Appeals Board. And that's what this is about in summary.

Okay. Being that we have no public comment, I do call this hearing to a close. Do I have any motion?

I'll make a motion. I make a motion to approve the amendment to Section 8-197. of the Town's Code of Ordinance as presented. Second.

All in favor? Thank you. That concludes the public hearing. We do have a presentation this evening. Introduction of our US Coast Guard Senior Chief.

Hey, good evening, council. Good evening, mayor. I have the distinct privilege in introducing our new senior chief at the Coast Guard right here on Oak Island. We have a great working relationship with the Coast Guard, and it really started years ago with the previous senior chief. We do things with them. We interact with the Coast Guard. maybe not on a weekly basis, but on a monthly basis. There was a change in another guard, what, three weeks ago? Yeah, three weeks ago. Jason Gazzillo was fortunate enough to come back to Oak Island, and I will let him give some background. It's a great honor to have him. He is a wonderful guy. We're looking so forward to working with him. So I just wanted to bring him to you tonight so you can put a name with a face, and we'll continue that great relationship that we had with Logan Atkinson along with Chief Gazzello here. But I'll turn it over to him. There you go, Chief. Thank you.

Good morning. Good afternoon, Mayor, Councilman. Thank you guys for the opportunity to be here to present myself and introduce myself. First and foremost, I have semi-condolences to Sheila and her family. It seems like she had an everlasting impact on the community. I took over three weeks ago, and I've had nothing but warm welcomes from Chief Morris and Chief Price from the fire department. I've had 24 years of service. I've done three tours here in North Carolina, so I'm glad to be back. I was serving down in southern Texas, protecting the maritime border and protection down there, supporting the United States down there. I look forward to continuing tradition and upholding the traditions here in Oak Island. I was in Wrightsville Beach before. I was in Hoboken, North Carolina up there, living in New Bern. This is my 11th duty station, and I've never felt more welcomed to be in an area since I've been here. I'm married. I have two children, and I look forward to serving this community. And thank you, Mr. Mayor, for this opportunity.

Thank you. Adjustment in the approval of the agenda.

I have a few adjustments, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to add the resolution to our consent agenda that Councilman Bynum read. I'd like to remove for discussion item IP. Point two, the code of ordinances speed limit ordinance for discussion. And then I'd also, due to scheduling conflicts with the applicant, would like us to remove item V1.

Mayor, is there a need for a closed session?

I believe I was the one who asked for a closed session, and I no longer require a closed session. There is no need for a closed session. Thank you, Lisa.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I can shorten it. Okay. Do I have a motion to accept the agenda as amended? So moved. Second. And second?

Question, if I may. So this is the second month in a row that the applicant for high-tide power sports has not shown up. At what point do they have to start the whole process again, meeting with staff, submitting whatever paperwork? Will we just continue to let this roll?

Tonight it was that they got a notice that their child had kindergarten orientation. So we did say that that was probably more important.

I understand. So the question stays. So how long do we, is this something we just can carry from month to month?

I don't believe we have a time limit on that.

Yeah, I would turn to Taylor for any updates as far as the UDO is concerned.

There is not a time limit for a business license application, so it could get continued on until the board chooses to hear it.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. So we had a motion and a second. All in favor of the agenda as? Okay. Thank you. That brings us to our public comment. This is a reminder that for public comment, you are limited to three minutes. They should be comments of general nature, not directed at any one individual or council member.

Glenn Baker.

Good evening, town council and mayor. My name is Glenn Baker, and I live on 110 Northeast 16th Street. I stand before you tonight to address a compounding crisis facing our community, expanding government bloat, the threat of impending tax increases, and a dangerous leadership vacuum created by recent vacancies in key positions. We are witnessing obvious internal turmoil within our administration. When core department heads and leadership roles sit vacant or turn over rapidly, it signals a systemic issue. Leaving these positions unfilled or constantly shuffling leadership creates an operational drift where money is spent, projects stall, and accountability disappears. Many of you sitting on this DS ran on platforms of fiscal responsibility, transparency, and protecting our citizens. Tonight, I am asking you to honor those promises before the cost of this administrative turmoil is passed directly down to the taxpayers. Oak Island's residents, especially the seniors and families living on fixed income, are being squeezed from every direction. Inflation is biting. Property reassessments are looming, and the cost of daily living continues to climb. Our seniors cannot afford tax hikes driven by organizational inefficiency or unaddressed bloat. Every year we hear about financial audits, but a standard financial audit only asks, are the numbers accounted for? It fails to answer the question our residents are desperately asking. Why are we spending more while key administrative roles remain in total flux? When a town experiences a leadership vacuum, knee-jerk reactions take over, departments operate in silos, redundancies multiply, and the default response is to hire more personnel or raise taxes to patch over broken processes rather than fixing them. That is why I am calling on this Council to commission a comprehensive, third-party operational audit of our town government. An operational audit brings in neutral private sector experts to examine our organizational structure, review workflow inefficiencies, and evaluate staffing needs during this critical transition period. It asks the necessary questions. How do we restructure vacant roles to save money rather than simply refilling bloated positions? Where are we duplicating administrative effort? How can we streamline operations so we don't force our fixed income residents out of their homes with continuous tax hikes? An operational audit routinely pays for itself by cutting waste and restoring stability. I respectfully request that council place an RFP for a third party operational audit on next month's agenda. Let's protect our seniors, fix the leadership vacuum, and bring true accountability to Oak Island. Thank you.

Thank you.

Valerie Dolan.

Good to have you back. See you up right. Valerie Dolan.

Good evening, Mayor Brown and members of town council. My name is Valerie Dolan, and I live at 1624 East Beach Drive. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak tonight about something that is very important to the Salty Dog Park community, and more importantly, about making our park accessible to everyone. Salty Dog Park has become much more than a place where people bring their dogs. It's a community. There's a strong group of regular users who care deeply about this park, who know the challenges firsthand, and who want to see it improve so that people of all abilities can safely enjoy it. It's my understanding that you will soon be considering how to move forward with recommendations coming from Oak Island Friends of the Park Foundation and the Oak Island Parks and Recreation Advisory Board regarding updates and improvements to the Salty Dog Park. As a voice for the group of regular park users and supporters, I would respectfully ask that you consider these recommendations favorably and prioritize the needs of the Salty Dog Park as you determine how to move forward. We understand that not everything can be accomplished at once, and we are not asking to do that. We're simply asking that these needs be recognized, prioritized, and incorporated into a realistic plan for improvements. We understand that everything on the list cannot and probably should not be done all at once. We understand there are budget limitations, competing priorities, and a process that the town must follow. What we are asking for is a commitment to move forward. The list of requested improvements that was provided to the Oak Island Friends of Parks identifies the areas that need attention, particularly those affecting accessibility, safety, and usability. These aren't simply cosmetic improvements. They are about making sure someone using a wheelchair, walker, or other mobility device can actually enter the park, navigate it safely, and enjoy the same experience as everyone else. And we don't expect the town to do this alone. There is already a dedicated group of regular park users who have demonstrated that we are willing to be part of the solution. We have already spent countless hours advocating for this park, gathering information, identifying needs, and bringing these needs forward. And we are willing to continue. We are willing to help with fundraising. We are willing to help organize efforts, volunteer our time, assist with projects where appropriate, and help provide information and insight from the people who use the park regularly. We understand there are things that we cannot do ourselves. But where there is something within our ability to help, we want to help. This should be a partnership between the town and the people who care about this park. We also recognize the improvements can be phased. Perhaps the most urgent, ADA and safety concerns are addressed first, followed by additional improvements as funding becomes available. What matters is that we establish a plan and begin moving forward rather than allowing the list to become another item that sits on a shelf. We have worked hard and persisted because we believe Salty Dog Park is worth investing in. But this isn't just a dog park. It's about Oak Island becoming a community that recognizes accessibility, inclusion, and safety as priorities. I would ask you, Mayor Brown and the Town Council, to support these requested improvements, work with Parks and Recreation Advisory Board and Oak Island Friends of Parks to establish a realistic plan and timeline, and allow the people who use the park and love the park to be part of making that plan successful. We aren't asking you to do everything tomorrow. We are asking you to say yes to moving forward and let us help you get there. Thank you.

Thank you patient man patient man That's all that we're signed up.

That's all we have okay We are now on to Council reports And I apologize for also starting off on a somber note, but I'd also like to take a moment to remember that Mike Venema, who recently passed away. Mike was a staff member, part of our public works team. I had the pleasure of meeting him and his wife last year. He was a very cheerful, outgoing member of our community. So just wanted to take the time to extend my sincere condolences to Bridget and her family. And of course, thank Mike for all his service to this town and to our community. That's all from me.

I'll yield my time.

OK. Meetings. Went to a lot of meetings. Parks and Rec Advisory Board meeting. I'm the council's liaison. Next month, Bill Miller is going to ask to come to council to talk about the nature trail. been fortunate enough to get the North Carolina Council of State to sign off on a 20-year lease that he's going to bring to our attention, but that nature trail is going forward quite well, and they're working hard. Par 3 committee, hats off to Todd for all he's doing. The Par 3 golf course is going to have four golf tournaments this year. Call attention to the Par 3 course. Get people out there and let them know all the improvements that have been done at the Par 3. Dingy Dash. I had a fun time two Saturdays ago going out and watching all my friends get wet. Some of them made it all the way. Some of them didn't, but that was a fun time. Thank you, Police Department, for that. I want to do a shout-out and... Hats off to Coco Cabana. Austin Alfonso, last Saturday, was giving away book bags there at the pier for all the school children. Just come by, no questions asked, grab you a bag full of all the stuff you need to go to school. And Austin at Coco Cabana did that on his own. Thank you, sir. They've left, but I went to my closet looking for a red shirt to honor Sheila Bell since she liked to wear red and I got as close as I could and I told my wife when I was leaving I was wearing a red shirt to honor Sheila and she pointed out to me it's pink, but I got as close as I could get. I tried. Lastly, People ask all of us from time to time about Moby Mats, how come there's not a Moby Mat at this street or how come there's not a Moby Mat at that street? My first response is they sure are expensive. My second response is if you know any civic clubs, any organizations, anyone, any group that would like to contact Todd and Scott Thornhall and come up with some Moby Mats for the town, we would...

Graciously appreciate that I want to put that plug in thank you, sir It's been a hot busy summer as everybody knows it's been a little bit crazy We got some early numbers on 4th of July. I believe Kent you were saying there's over 90,000 people estimated Yeah, that was correct on around the fifth that weekend 93,000 estimated so that's that's quite a lot of people that were here you could tell when you went to the 4th of July celebrations and Just how busy we were the beach is looking great. It's holding up very very well so we're excited to keep moving and While we love our tourists Those of us were local are looking forward to second summer so

I want to reinforce what Bill was saying about the par 3. I've got a number of comments that the course is in the best shape it's ever been. So that's a pretty high bar. So Todd, congratulations to you and staff. Water usage reduction, I was talking to Trey and Ken. So we've experienced consistently a 20% water reduction since the mandatory restrictions in place. So great news. Thanks, everybody. The new Brunswick County water treatment The new plant is going to come online at the end of the month, and that's going to double the capacity. So hopefully, if it comes online and it doubles the capacity, at that point, maybe the water restrictions go away. And lastly, the reverse osmosis plant that's been delayed by two years, that's supposed to come online the end of the month, end of the year. Good news for Brunswick County residents. Not so good news for Oak Island, St. James, Southport, and Caswell Beach, because we're going to get a blend. of reverse osmosis water and the Cape Fear treated water. So for those who have a reverse osmosis system in your house, keep that going so you don't get the blended water. But thank you.

And last but not least?

Well, I think one of the biggest things I would like to do tonight is just to say a thank you to Mayor Brown, Councilwoman Kartner, and Councilman.

I never can remember your last name for some reason.

It's so weird to call them by their last names. councilman brown um just to publicly thank you guys for all you did in the town manager search i don't believe that most of the people realize uh what went into that you guys did an amazing job of keeping us um you guys took the lead but i think that you guys did a great job organizing and making it as flawless of a process that could possibly be um so thank you for your efforts um You guys helped us lay out a timeline. It was very smooth. So I just wanted to publicly say thank you for all the work that you guys did while you led the charge. We were all involved in the decision. So thank you guys for your work on that. And that's all I have.

All right. So that brings us now to our consent agenda. So I'm going to be asking for a motion to approve the consent agenda with the removal of item I-2 and the addition of item I-6, the resolution. So moved. Second. All those in favor? Motion passes. So the next item is items removed from the consent agenda. That is item I2. Councilman Brown, you asked for that to be removed. Yes.

I think we'll let you start. Of course. So I'm by no means looking to relitigate this topic. I just want us to have a informed and deliberate rollout of this change. This will be the first segment of road on the island that is 35 mile an hour, but golf carts, LSVs are not allowed. It's also a section that has been 45 for quite some time. So I want to ensure that Chief, which I probably should have given a heads up, and maybe Kent, that while we likely will be passing this update, that it's not implemented tomorrow. I would hate for us to have found one item from the Blue Ribbon Committee to change and hopefully improve pedestrian safety but if not rolled out to create new problems. So I don't have a position on when it should change, how it should change, but I really think time spent planning that, sharing that, and just publicizing it as much as possible will not hopefully create new issues. My only advice is not during summer. And then I defer to you all to lead us with some direction for how we implement this change.

Yeah, certainly advice well taken. We did get a little bit of a heads up about this. So Chief Morris and I discussed this briefly today about the number of ways we can approach notifications using our different pieces of infrastructure, mobile signage, et cetera, and including our usual multimedia notifications through The Current, through social media, and so forth. And we also talked about the consideration of getting well beyond the vacation season before we consider when to implement the notification plan. So I think we're in sync with that and have some good thoughts. Chief, certainly, if you'd like to add anything, feel free and come up.

Yeah, as Chief comes up, I think, one, One missing piece, and I'm sure you would have got to it, is maybe working with golf cart rental companies to help them appreciate the change. I imagine their literature will have to be updated. Pieces of our website likely will have to be updated. And then, again, that was just one extra piece that I didn't quite hear.

Thank you, Councilman Brown. And I appreciate the fact that we're trying to get ahead of this, because I certainly do not want any issues on the back end when it's completely unnecessary. So however, we do have right now a loose plan. about how to move forward with this however our specific date will rely on DOT once we get through tonight we'll send our confirmation to DOT DOT will then come out and change the speed limit signs so but we need a date first so we're you I was on the phone with Alan today with DOT discussing that part of it with him. So once we get that hard date, we will certainly start laying the groundwork to educate our community, our visitors, and move forward with that. And just like Mr. Jackson was saying, we'll use all of our social media, the website, The Current, to push that information out. We'll have our message boards up. And I, too, agree that we don't even need to address this until after Labor Day. We'll get through the season and around October-ish first, somewhere in that neighborhood, that we can go live with an effective date. But, yes, we discussed that this afternoon.

Could we possibly make consideration for Pledge the Pink? They're coming in October. We're going to have an influx of. guests that are not regular attenders. I think that and the witches ride. So we've got two big October things that are heavily visited, so maybe take those into consideration as well.

And we certainly will. And of course, we'll do the education campaign and then before we start doing any type of enforcement. So that date when we unveil it, we'll have that hard date. We will not enforce until after that date. But definitely after Labor Day into October, November, we'll get beyond this, get beyond the holiday or the season.

Okay.

Chief, if I may, sir, I'm fine with you implementing the change whenever you think you're supposed to implement the change. Thank you, sir.

I'll stay out of that.

To cut to the chase, it's 45 mile per hour from Middleton to 19th Street. From 19th Street to Country Club, it's 35 mile per hour. Is that correct? That's correct. All right. And secondly, no golf carts from 37th Street to 19th Street, just like it always has been. It has been from 37th all the way to the middle. Now it's from 37th to 19th. No golf carts.

37th. That's correct. Yes. That's the bottom line. Yep. That's it.

Thank you, sir. Okay.

Thank you. Any other discussion?

Mayor, may I make one comment for the record, please? So NCDOT had requested that while we implement an addition of the 35 mile per hour in the new zone, we also repeal the ordinance for the 45 mile per hour in that zone. The town did not have such an ordinance. So we are simply establishing 35 miles per hour in that zone. But I wanted to note that for the record so I can send the minutes along with it.

There is no ordinance to repeal?

Yes, sir.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, so I make a motion to do what Lisa just requested and also approve the addition to section 2811 as well as the creation or the addition to 2814 of our town's code of ordinances as presented in our agenda packet. Do I have a second?

I'll second.

All those in favor?

5-0. All right. That brings us to committee appointments. You have your ballots.

I had a question about the ballots for the clerk. And I just wanted to get her direction on how we should do this.

So since there are a number of applicants for the regular positions on the Planning Board and then the alternates, if you want to vote for just the regular positions on the Planning Board and then also the Environmental Advisory Committee, then we can tally those. We can redistribute your sheets, and then you can vote on the alternates because that might change.

That make sense to everybody? Cool. OK. You vote for who you wish to be on the committee. And then from that, after that, we will then do the alternates.

We're going to vote on the environmental committee first.

Both.

And the regular planning board appointees. Both.

It's just that you're not marking an alternate at this time.

And then she'll hand the sheets back out, and we'll vote on the alternate.

Sorry, I already filled out my alternate, so you can ignore that, and I'll erase it if it's no longer.

No, Tommy. You're just an overachiever moving fast.

Don't get chases. Finishing.

Oh, that's coming from the young one.

The young girl.

That is a pretty fancy voting sheet.

Well, the clerk is doing that. I want to thank everyone who came tonight and braved the weather. It has been crazy out there. We have 105, 110. It's been a little bit toasty. So the air conditioning is doing pretty good tonight. the Jeopardy theme.

I'm sorry, it's a new form for me too.

No, no, just take your time. Make sure it's just accurate, that's all. Take your time.

Small font, it's hard to read.

OK, we have five votes for David Purser in one of the regular terms on the planning board, and four votes from council members Brown, Bynum, Chulo, and Kraft for Scott Stevenson for regular term on the board, and four votes from council members Brown, Bynum, Kartner, and Kraft for Robert Carpenter for a regular term. To the Environmental Advisory Committee, there were five votes for each of the applicants. Now, we had a couple people that did already vote for alternates. So should I just pass all the sheets back again?

Yes. Did Erin get the longer term?

I thought they were the same time.

Oh, look at that. Oh, it passes up.

So at this time, you will vote for two of the remaining. John Blevins, Gene Brooks, and William Stewart for the alternate terms.

Then we get on with it.

OK, Mayor. With at least four votes, because some of you voted for the same person twice, we have William Stewart as an alternate. And then the next highest vote getter is Jean Brooks for an alternate position. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

With that, we come now to the administrative reports. And I'll turn that over to Mr. Jackson.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. So as we heard earlier, we have experienced the bitter part of the circle of life recently. But the good news is there's sweet parts of the circle yet to come. And those who have gone before us would want us to enjoy that. So talk about administrative reports and some other town business. As you know, we have started the financial audit process. Actually, on yesterday, the staff members of the audit firm came on site. They will be here through Thursday completing their file and record sampling. Asking questions so forth we anticipate their report in the first half of October At that point we will schedule the town council presentation and the process will continue from there again kudos to especially Melissa Craig and other members of the finance department who have Pulled together as a team to make this happen on the desired schedule, the typical schedule. There was an opportunity to delay this off, extended by the firm, but they were able to keep this on track. So that's impressive work on their part. Parking, of course, we are moving into certainly the second half, the latter part of the parking season. So I'd ask Otto for an update. So I think as we've kind of felt, the activity of visitation has increased, and the revenues have increased along with that, a 6.5% increase over 2025. They also included some statistics about citations and season permit sales citations. I've experienced a 5% reduction. I've not had a... You know, that is positive in the sense that it reflects our communication and our... signage and so forth is maybe having a more significant impact. So thanks to Mike and his office for helping us to boost up the parking information. Season permit sales increased slightly over 2025 at almost 1,500 season permit sales. So this is a kind of mid-year snapshot. As we get to the conclusion of the parking season, we will have a more in-depth discussion with Otto to debrief on how the season went and considerations for the future. uh... council member chula mentioned this in his comments uh... the county on yesterday uh... moved to moved back to stage two water restriction notice one of the highlights of that is the expanded irrigation schedules under stage two uh... automatic irrigation is allowed Six days per week. It's three days for odd-numbered addresses, three days for even-numbered addresses, still with no irrigating on Mondays. Also obtained some usage data from our public utilities. So you can see there that first entry on July 5th was the peak of our usage at about 2.8 million gallons on the 10th. right around the 10th is when the county went to the stage three mandatory restriction level. So you can see how our usage has remained fairly reduced but fairly steady with a slight precipitous decrease to this latest number on this past Sunday. So certainly the restrictions and the communication issues has proven to have an impact here. So we will continue to stay in close contact with the county. We had a teams meeting with them today to review the current stage. They are considering or actually plan a further update to their water emergency plan. They have encouraged wholesale customers such as us, Ocean Isle Beach, et cetera, to wait until they complete that to consider any further updates to our own water emergency plan. So we will continue to monitor that and at the appropriate time bring forth any new recommendations for next season or for the future. Burn ban continues to be in effect. I've not heard any substantial discussions of that changing. So that's kind of a baseline update there. I'll talk about a few of our projects that are ongoing, either in planning or construction phase. 79th Street Signal, I got some updates about that this week. The utility easement that the council approved for the project was accepted. The project has been submitted to the Federal Highway Administration. for review and final construction approval. And the project continues on schedule to start construction near the end of calendar year 2026. Also, actually tonight on your agenda in the consent, you approved a resolution to ask for funding for additional crosswalks at East Oak Island Drive and 31st and 40th, as well as a location on Fish Factory Road that would line up with the Dutchman Creek County Park. I learned today that the decision timeline for these projects is likely December of this year when we will learn our fate, so to speak, as far as these project requests. Also, notably, earlier this year we talked about a crosswalk project at 58th. And that project got off schedule because of some right-of-way complications. So I learned today that that project has been approved by Federal Highway and NCDOT to be brought forward into the FY27 program. project program. So that's good news for us that the project is going to be moving forward again without additional information or additional action on our part. So I'll keep you posted as we learn more about that.

Ken, quick question if I may. So these three, are they taken on their own in terms of review? And Fish Factory may be approved, but 31st may not be approved?

Correct. Yeah, they will each stand on their own merits, so to speak. Yes. Thank you.

Missed one.

So dune planting, the dune, the physical dune planting wrapped up in June, latter part of June. So it is now more than halfway through the 90-day monitoring stage. This photograph is on the western end of the project where the actual sand placement included the dune berm adjacent to residential properties. This photo was taken sometime in the early part of last week, provided by the contractor. Moffitt Nickel is providing the monitoring. They have placed out markers, and they are doing periodic reviews through the 90-day period to determine at the end of that period what amount and location of replanting will be required. Fish Factory Road, we had the kind of phase two improvements being scoped in the background. But I wanted to talk tonight about seasonal impacts. We talked about the... population or the visitor estimates of over 90,000 in July. So those visits obviously have impact seasonally on our infrastructure. And the fish factory plant is certainly one of those locations that experiences this. Just to give you a visual, on turnover days, Saturdays, when hundreds of units are turning over in a short window, they're being cleaned. And tons of linens and sheets and so forth are being laundered. That produces a considerable chemical load and creates an imbalance at the plant. Our staff has been working over the past two weekends to try to isolate the periods of time when the heaviest inflow of those chemicals is occurring so that we can develop operational strategies going forward to make sure that the plant stays within the criterion limits required by the state permit. Little Davis Canal, last week I had a Meeting with the consultant, they have completed their surveys and their studies and their analysis. Some of the key findings I've talked about in the past, the permit, the CAMA permit for this canal contains a maintenance clause that's advantageous for potential future dredging. The consultant has determined that the approximate quantity of dredging is between 12 and 13,000 cubic yards of material that could potentially be removed after it's permitted. And the cost, approximately $2 million is the potential cost for doing that dredging. So we will be getting the consultant's final report later this month. Likely the next steps after that will be a follow-up meeting with the directly impacted property owner's to share the findings, get some feedback, and start to at least lay out a framework for council to consider as far as what next steps might be appropriate.

Do you recall, Ken, and making no assumptions that this will proceed, but did the agreement with this particular contractor outline support in identifying grants or other funding sources for the project outside of just the town covering it entirely?

It did. And they actually articulated several of those that they are aware or have become aware of in our meeting last week.

So, Kent, I can attest to the fact that this area needs some attention, but we also have other areas. The area around Southwest 15th, they call it Little Pine Island. If you cross that bridge at low tide, there is no water, and folks have boats sitting on the mud, you know, so... I want to make sure that we don't look at this as just the only issue that we have. We have other taxpayers who can't gain access to in and out of their property during low tide, more severe than the Little Davis Canal. So I think we've got to be careful about how we approach this and do for some and not for others.

clear of the further background of this. Certainly, it may lead to some type of more comprehensive assessment or review of troublesome areas.

KENT COLLINS- Kent, correct me if I'm wrong. When this first came to council's attention, a group of homeowners in the Little Davis Canal asked if we would do a feasibility study and that they would be responsible for the cost. And at no time did we put anything in the budget. Am I correct on that? For this going forward.

To my best knowledge, the only funds that the town has committed to was for the study. Feasibility study. That's right.

So anything else that comes out of that, if grants don't come out of it, We've done some work for the people that live on Little Davis Canal. We can give them that information, but we're not undertaking the project until five of us vote on it.

Correct. Yeah, we've not made any, certainly no commitments or no inferences to any of those owners. Only a handful, three or four, have been actively engaged with us in this process, but

The $2 million cost is more than they thought they would hear and probably more than we thought we would hear.

Most likely. I honestly did not have a good idea of what the order of magnitude might be, but certainly it is even higher than I would likely have imagined.

You know, I think it's fair to say that the town's been engaged with a couple of people. That's because that neighborhood appointed those people to work with the town. There are about 65 houses that sit on Little Davis Canal, and when they have a meeting... They all come. They all come. And they were prepared to take matters into their own hands a couple years ago. And I said, wait, wait, please reach out to the town. At one point, they were amenable to having a special tax assessment of something like $500 per property. Well, unfortunately, that's only $30,000. What can you do? What can you do with that? But I think we have to proceed with caution and excluding some and excluding others.

This group is taxpayers just like every other group in town. And I don't want to turn my head against these people just because we heard an ugly number. But we need to not be Pollyanna. We need to know that there's only so much money in the till. And we have to do our due diligence and see where we can find additional money before we can help people.

To move forward on a discussion, which we're having, and this feasibility study was needed, we have it. And whatever your findings are, we'll bring it back. We'll have some dialogue. But quick math, that $2 million equates to about $30,000 for an impacted home. And that's an awful lot of money for a very small group of homes.

And did the study provide any advice for the longevity of the canal after a dredging project was completed? Can they forecast the canal will maintain this depth for close to next year so we can truly appreciate what sort of investment we're making, a one-year enjoyment or a 10, 20-year?

We did not discuss any of that part of recommendations last week. aside from a kind of general comment about the kind of importance of an ongoing maintenance dredging program, which, you know, is logical. So we will have to devote some time to discuss any of those kind of recommendations. Soil Water Master Plan is about 20% complete in work effort. They have completed the kind of canvassing of the system. They have identified around 1,100 drainage structures in the town through the droning kind of process. What's happening now is you may see crews throughout town who are actually physically on the ground trying to physically locate and survey these structures. I know that they have found some locations where drainage structures have become buried or inundated with sediment so that they're not working properly and things like that so This is a this is a longer project extending through probably most of the first half of 2027 but will certainly continue to give you updates as we get substantial new information Street paving started probably two to three weeks ago on the mainland portion. The neighborhood streets that were included on the mainland section are complete. Now the contractor will start some limited production primarily on the west end of paving a few streets. in the short term, and then they will ramp up and complete the project after Labor Day once traffic starts to significantly dissipate. Kayak launch, we have received the permit. The consultant is preparing the bid advertisement. And again, this is a 75% funded project by NCDEQ. And this is on 31st Street behind the rec center. And I was really excited about the movie night coming up on September 4th as kind of part of a weekend of events for Sunset on Summer, and then followed by the Sunset on Summer Music Festival on Saturday. Again, Todd and his group has done a nice job kind of adding something that we'll see what kind of feedback we get and consider for programming for next season. So that's my updates.

Kent, your very first slide, if I may, sir. Auto on parking. Yes, sir. Through July, $1,142,027. That is prior to auto taking out their 30%. Is that correct? Because we usually generate $1.2 million in paid parking. If we've already generated 1.14, that is rough numbers without auto taking their 30%.

Yes, that is pretty sure this is gross numbers. Yeah, still great numbers.

Thank you. Any other questions? All right, thank you. Yep, thank you. Okay, do we have any old business? I don't believe we do. Okay, then we go on to new business. Item one has been removed, which brings us to item two. Item two is the appeal 26-01290. This is a quasi-judicial hearing. So there's a couple things on this. I'd like to explain how this process works. The hearing on this matter is a quasi-judicial in nature and will be conducted in a manner to protect the due process rights of the parties involved. Members of the council may ask questions of each witness after the witness testifies when questions are called for by me. The testimony that witnesses give today shall be taken under oath. If a witness wants the counsel to see written evidence, such as reports, maps, pictures, or other exhibits, then he or she should be familiar with the evidence and should explain the document and ask that it be introduced during or at the end of his or her testimony. Any attorneys who speak should not give factual testimony but may summarize their client's case. After all testimony, the counsel will deliberate and make a final decision based on substantial, competent, and material evidence in the records. The council cannot make its decision based on evidence or information that is not part of the record. The final decision of the council shall be reduced to writing and will include findings of fact and conclusions of law. Ms. Stites, we did not do a sign-up sheet, correct?

No, because this is separate from a public hearing.

Right. So that's one of the things they said about a sign-up sheet. So at this time, we'll swear in any witnesses. For those who wish to come up.

Left hand on the Bible. We have one more coming. Major, right hand, please. You solemnly swear that the evidence you give to the town council during this hearing shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So I hope you got it.

I do.

Bob, do you want to do the council conflicts, or should I?

You can go ahead and do it.

OK, I'll do it. OK, before opening the hearing, Council members should reveal any possible conflicts and withdraw from these proceedings if necessary. Conflicts include or are not limited to a member having a fixed opinion prior to the hearing, the matter that is not susceptible to change, undisclosed ex parte communications, a close familial business or other associational relationship with an affected person, or a financial interest in the outcome of the matter. If an objection is raised to a member's participation, that member does not accuse himself or herself. The remaining members shall, by majority vote, rule on the objection. Council members, at this time, does anyone have any conflicts that they are aware of? Okay, thank you. Okay, so once again, in this hearing, we'll first hear from the town staff, then from the applicant and their witnesses, and then from any proponents or opponents to the request. The applicant may, if it chooses, reserve time at the end for a rebuttal. Parties may cross-examine a witness after the witness testifies when questions are called for. Again, a reminder, if you want the counsel to see written evidence, please make sure you're familiar with it and you include it in your testimony. With the guidance of the attorney, I will correct you if you do not follow proper procedures, and I will rule on all objections. Before you begin your testimony, please clearly identify yourself and your address for the record. There are no time limits on how long you may speak, but I ask you to be considerate of everyone's time and be concise with your comments. Also, I can and will stop any testimony that is irrelevant to the application, not competent, unduly repetitive of evidence already given, or a personal attack. At this time, I now open the hearing, and I will ask the town staff to make their presentation on this matter.

Okay, good evening. So we are here to hear an appeal case for 4906 East Beach. So to give you some case history like a timeline, a building permit was issued for the property in December of 2021, and that was to raise the existing home onto a new piling foundation. The pilings were installed, but the home was never raised. Just as a note, building permits expire after 12 consecutive months of discontinued work. Notice of violations were first sent to the property owner on February 23, 2023. At least eight notice of violation letters had been mailed to the property owner with no response. Alternatively, staff moved the case over to minimum housing earlier this year. An administrative warrant was executed on April 7, and staff inspected the interior structure after we served that warrant. We held a minimum housing hearing on April 29 of this year. The owner did attend. However, the hearing was continued to a later date to allow the property owner to assemble some additional information and provide proof of contract at that second hearing. The hearing was resumed on May 13th. The owner did not attend that meeting. After reviewing evidence, the hearing officer, which is the assistant town manager, Ken Jackson, determined the property to be in a dilapidated condition. Dilapidated means the required repairs exceed 50% of the tax value of the structure. This does not include the value of the land. The tax value of this structure is $6,930. The estimated cost of repairs were $130,000, $306,000. The minimum housing order was mailed to the owner and posted on the property. The order ordered the demolition or removal of the structure within 90 days. The deadline was today, August 18th. An appeal application was received on May 27, and that effectively paused the enforcement clock. So the condition of the property, why they received a minimum housing violation. So wiring and electrical fixtures were in a state of disrepair. There's no heating facilities in good working condition. There's a lack of exterior weatherproofing. Interior floors, walls, and partitions were found to be in an unsound condition. Sanitary facilities were in a non-working condition. There was no hot or cold water supply. The property was in an overall unsanitary condition. At the time of inspection, there was a deceased animal on the property. There was an unsafe foundation, means of egress, stairs, and porch, and there were broken windows, among other issues. Here's just a few pictures that we took on that inspection. Just showing the interior. This is the outside and another interior photo. And then some more exteriors, and that's Mr. Brooke over there on the right climbing the ladder to get into the house. And that's all I've got on this one.

All right, thank you. At this time, do any members of the council have any questions for the town staff?

Can you go back to your first, the timeline slide? Were there from after the permits to install the new pilings, had there ever been any permits of any kind ever submitted for work on the property since December?

I didn't see any in the printing system, no.

Taylor, eight letters were sent with no responses. Do we have an assurance that the eight letters were delivered?

They were not all sent certified, so I don't have certified receipts, but we send them first class or certified, so no, I don't have receipts of all of them. They're sent to the tax mailing address, so whatever address is on file with the county as their mailing address is where they go. If we can find out someone is living in another address, we will also send it to that address, but we didn't have any kind of information of a different address for this property owner.

An administrative warrant, what is an administrative warrant?

It's different than a warrant that a police officer would get. It's someone like me, a regular administrative staff member. Same process, I have to go to the courthouse and get the administrative warrant, but it allows zoning staff or planning staff to be able to access a property. We, of course, take police officers with us just in case.

$130,000 is estimated repairs, and that property is one block from the ocean.

So it is likely more. The instruction that we give to our estimator is once you hit a certain number where it's clearly obvious that it's over 50%, you can stop. We don't need the full gamut. They also don't go and tear things apart to see the full breadth of what those repairs might be. This is just a general overview.

I had one more question. Sorry. As part of the condition of determining the tax value, did you all determine or have an opinion on whether the new pilings are usable? Or would that, as part of the demolition, would those two be required to be removed along with the structure itself?

So the pilings themselves are not a residential structure, so I wouldn't interpret that to mean that the pilings have to be removed. And I want to say Mr. Brooks said the pilings looked good. So I don't think they need to be removed. The tax value comes from the county. It comes from the tax authority.

Fair.

OK. Taylor, in the communication we received from the builder and from the owner, there seemed to be an indication from them that they are going to fix the house, not replace the house. But your recommendation was that the house is not able to be fixed. It must be demolished and replaced. Is that correct?

The statute says that if the repair cost is found to be over 50%, the structure shall be removed or demolished. And so the hearing officer during the hearing found the property to be dilapidated. and the repairs to be 50% more or cost more than 50% of the tax value.

So the house that's on the property now is unable to be lifted and to be put on the pilings. Is that accurate?

In its current state, yes.

OK. And this may be a question for Bob, but to flesh out our role, We are not determining whether something can be fixed or whether something can be moved on to the existing pilings and then repaired. We're being asked to determine if the required repairs exceed 50% of the tax value of the structure.

Essentially, I mean, you're being asked to either affirm or reverse or modify.

And that's the conclusion they made, the staff made. OK. And I guess one more. Have you shared with us anything demonstrating the tax value other than your PowerPoint slide?

I believe I put the tax card in the agenda, but if I didn't, I can get it. That is available on GIS. It's publicly available. Anyone can look at it.

But I assume we would need that today to treat it as part of her presentation, right?

Well, you have her testimony, which you can choose whether or not you accept it. Fair.

OK, thank you. To clarify, and Bob, you might need to answer this, sir. Tommy's question, are we saying, are you saying that if we determine that it is more than 50% of the structure is in disrepair, then regardless of what the builder says that he can or cannot do, we don't care? Is that what you're saying?

Well, I mean, if the builder comes back and says that the cost to repair is less than 50% of the tax value of the property, then you have to decide whose testimony seems more reasonable to you.

Yeah. Thank you. And just to be clear, for this board to overturn the appeal, we need four of us to vote in favor of the appeal, not a majority. Correct. Correct.

So just to be clear, so a three to two vote in favor of the appeal is insufficient to overturn the appeal.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Okay. At this time, we'll now hear from the applicant and the applicant's witnesses.

My name's Bert Lee, and I own the property at 4906 East Beach. The Hurricane ICAS washed it back there. And it took the house mover a long time to get it straightened up and near. And I got my pylons in and repaired the framework. Then my health I had just two weeks before the storm and had open heart surgery I worked on it and did I kind of lost my health and so Hadn't been my life has just been one thing after another after another and so I finally got to the point that I could get back to the house and I answering much of my mail or anything. But now I've gotten to where I cleaned up the yard and boarded up the windows, cleaned out the house. And on the first hearing, I explained this to everybody. And they said, come back. I said, I was doing it myself, but I think now I need a contractor. And David Wallace had told me when it happened, he'd help. to him. And I went back to the second hearing, but it had happened a week ago. And I'm just not good at linear time anymore. And when I left the place, I didn't have the notes written down when the next date was. And I made a mistake on the date. And I meant to come back. And David came with me, but it had already been done. So all I'm trying to do, I mean, my family's owned that property since 62. And all I'm trying to do is get my house. I didn't do this to put it on pylons. The hurricane washed it back. And I've got to put it on pylons or it'll wash it away again. But, uh. All I want to do is get my house fixed. And I've got a contractor. And the pylons are set. And the permit hadn't changed. Nothing's changed since I got the permit to the house. So since I already had the permit, I don't understand, other than my being sick and not answering the letter, This is happening when all I'm trying to do is get my house back the way it was before the storm.

Did you receive those letters, the eight letters that were sent to you? Did you?

I don't know. I was in and out of long COVID and short COVID and lost my daughter. And I just... David and I were writing a letter about what all happened. We just got tired of all the bad luck. And since then, David has received two notices that our appeal had been approved, and all we had to do was pay $2,500. It came on town letterhead.

When did you receive those?

Well, he'll have to tell you. I'm not good with dates. The first time... He went down to get the permits. Well, and at the first meeting, at that first hearing, I said, well, can't I just go down and get my permits now? And she said, well, I don't know. You can try. And so we're just trying to get a permit and get my house put back up there. And no matter what anybody says, I I redid the Ocean Education Center as the project supervisor. I mean, number eight, beside the pier, the old skating rink. And so I know how to do things, and I can do the floors just need covering and the roofs not leaking. And I boarded the windows up. And we just need to get it in the air and get a permit. And we're just trying to get a permit and get it fixed. And that's all.

Mr. Lee, when they showed pictures a while ago, there was all kinds of stuff in the yard. Is that true?

Yeah, that's all completely picked up and mowed now. It needs mowing again since the rain. It needs mowing again.

The broken toilets and the broken glass. Yeah, all that's, yeah.

Yes. We can go over there now if you want to.

I just have to ask you, sir. Thank you.

Yes, sir. Yes, it's all picked up.

Other questions for Mr. Lee?

So do you have any quotes for the cost of moving it and bringing it up to code?

Well, the first thing we've got to do is get it on the pylons. And we've got to get back with the house mover It was about $2,000 worth of materials for the stringers and framing. And then he sits it up there. And then I need to put some siding and cover the floor and put my cabinets back in the kitchen. The walls are painted, everything's electric still run and everything. We'll have to check it because the storm washed the house back. We'd never had water in our yard up to the, it had never gotten covered grass. And since they built Publix, all the energy that could, the ocean could go in and out hits that raised seven acres or four acres so it can't disperse. So it mounds up. And then my neighbor's car washed loose and knocked my house over. So anyway, I'm just trying to get it fixed up. And if it's not one thing, those letters asked for $2,500 for the permit. And we were going to pay it. And it was on the town letterhead. And so David finally came down here yesterday because he got a second notice. And the town said it was a scam. So we thought that we were OK, that our thing had been passed. And then we hear that they're changing the rules. And I'm scared of changing the rules. so they won't pass mine. So it's just the torture never stops. It's one thing after another, and I'm just trying to get my house fixed.

DAVID BURRAGE, JR.: Mr. Wallace, do you have something you'd like to add with us?

DAVID WALLACE, JR.: As Mr. Lee said, excuse me, he's trying to get his property back in place. And he's hired me to help him. I've been building here since the 90s. I'm very experienced. We just want to move forward. So I'm really here more to answer any questions y'all might have for me besides what he said.

I'm just going to answer real quick a question about the permit. So you received a letter on town letterhead that said the permit was approved.

Yes, sir, and I had Mr. Jackson's name on it. I would like to send y'all all a copy of it, email it to you, because when I brought it to town, they told me it was a scammer.

Yeah, for those of you who aren't aware, the applicant who filed for the business license also received a request for money to get their permit.

To be wired. And they thought the same thing. So I think that someone is pulling the public records off of our agenda because he thought, and it was the same amount to him too. It asked him to wire $2,800 yesterday.

I'll be glad to afford this to you.

So I think someone is pulling it off the public information.

It looked just like something I would get from the town. Ask the applicant to wire money.

Well, yes, sir. They asked me to do it, $2,800. But then when I try to do it, it said I had to do it that day, which kind of put a red flag up.

And it says something about our planning commission. It's something we don't have. They're spoofing it just, I mean, kudos to you for catching that.

Yeah, when they said I had to do it that day, I was like, that doesn't sound right. So I can't, I brought it to the town.

Mr. Wallace, if I can ask you, in your professional opinion as a builder, can this property be rehabilitated?

Yes, sir, I believe so. The first thing we'll probably do is bring in the engineer to look at the house. And I would like for him to inspect the pylons, too. I know they were put in, and Mr. Lee has all the information we need on that. But I'd still like for the engineer to look at the pylons. And then also he's got to look at the house and see if we can lift it and put it up on top of the pylons. But I don't see why we cannot. I've done several of them. I don't see why we cannot, but you never do you get an engineer to to tell you exactly what you're gonna Do you you never know so if the engineer signs off on it?

Then your company would start fixing the floors fixing the walls fixing the wiring that would get raised and start Yes, and make it habitable.

Yes, sir.

We'll bring it back there in compliance So all the questions I've heard are really good, but I think they're getting away from what our our task is tonight. So my question to you, Mr. Wallace, do you disagree with the assessment that the cost of repairs are going to be more than 50% of the tax value of this property?

Yeah, I knew I was going to be asked that question. I don't know what the tax value is. I don't recall.

Tax value is $6,930, according to Brunswick County.

That's what? I'm sorry.

$6,930. according to the Brunswick County Registry.

Because they're subtracting the land out of it. And that doesn't include the land.

It's just the structure that's sitting on the ground the county has said is worth $6,930, and that's what the owner is being taxed on.

Well, you know, you're not going to do it for... for less than 50% of $6,900. So you don't... That's impossible. I mean, you're looking... I mean, I saw that one estimate was $130,000. I mean, you're probably looking $130,000, $180,000, somewhere around there.

Okay, so that was my question, was the assessment that our hearing officer made is correct. That house cannot be repaired for less than 50% of... For less than $7,000.

I mean, you can't... If it's only $7,000, there's no way. It's impossible.

Thank you for pointing that out. That's exactly what we're being asked for tonight is to, if we decide to override or to approve the appeal, then we disagree with the findings of staff. I just wanted to make that clear.

Well, just to make it even more clear, Mr. Lee and Mr. Wallace, what we are asked to do tonight under state statute is to ask the question that, Councilwoman Cartner just asked you. Staff went to the site, listed items that brought them to that determination that it meets the dilapidated, statutorily defined definition, utilizing that county tax assessment, and then came up with an estimated cost of repairs. They made their finding and they would have been asked Our interim town manager He would have been the determining figure in that evaluation and the exact same question would have been asked of him And again, this is all driven by state statute so our hands are tied simply to answer a did the previous evaluation, either the calculation of the estimated cost of repairs, was that incorrect, so that the final evaluation that it does or does not exceed 50% was incorrect, or is it accurate? And so it's a simple question. It's a hard question, given all the other reasons that have been shared. But that is the very straightforward question that we are being asked, as, again, dictated by state law, not our local ordinances or our personal opinions. Unfortunately.

And just to add a note to that, we're looking at a figure that says estimated cost of repairs. But as we heard the planning manager say, when the assessor, the estimator, reaches a certain point, they're told to just stop and not go any further. You can repair that house for $130,000. I want to sign a contract with somebody tomorrow to build a house, because down here it just doesn't happen. It's going to be way more than $130,000.

Do we have any more questions for Mr. Wallace? Thank you. OK, thank you.

Can I have a little rebuttal?

Yeah, most certainly.

Thanks. I feel like I think you guys can either deny my appeal or turn it down. And I don't think it really matters about the evidence. It's the vote.

I don't understand what you're saying there.

I mean, I agree that it's going to cost more than half of $6,900. But it was going to cost more than $6,900 when I got the first permit. The only thing different with the house now is they knocked the windows out, and I didn't answer some letters. And the house was more than that then, but it was perfectly fine. Everybody else could do it when the hurricane got their storm. I got sick and couldn't catch up. And we understand, sir. I can't afford to tear it down. I've got to put it back to where I can. I've been living in the Captain's Cove Motel since then. And the town had my phone number to call me if things were getting this bad. And they finally did a couple of days before the first hearing. So I don't know. except that I think that it's not as black and white as those numbers right there, because I think that my appeal can be approved. And I'm not saying that the town staff did anything wrong, but they looked at it from the point of view of being able to go ahead and tear it down instead of Well, this house, everything's the same as it was after the hurricane. What's changed? And that's all.

On staff, any last?

I was just going to say that if we could get my presentation and staff report into the record.

Thank you. Taylor, if... Any last questions for? I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mayor.

Excuse me. If it is condemned, the town would then tear the property down?

So Mr. Lee still has about 60 days or so on his enforcement clock to do the work himself. So to demolish the property or remove the property, he can move the property out of town limits. He still has time to do that. If at the end of that clock, so after we do the hearing now and y'all sign the findings of fact, the clock doesn't restart, but it starts where it left off. If after that time, the property has not been demolished or moved, then yes, the town at that point would move forward themselves to have it demolished.

And then put a lien on that land or?

The cost incurred by the town to do that work would be invoiced to the property owner, and then after 30 days, if it had not been paid, then yes, it would be placed as a lien.

How many days did you say that he has left?

He has about 60.

60, 6-0? Mm-hmm.

Thank you. Is condemnation usually used as a reset button, or is it used as a...

Taking property, but so we're not taking any property. This is an eminent domain. Mr. Lee still owns the land Any other questions

Just one other question, Taylor, for clarification. You showed us that after the hurricane or the storm, the hurricane permit was issued December 2021, it was a duration of 12 months. And so it expired December 2022. But after that time, there was no contact from the owner about, I need an extension, nothing until we started these proceedings.

As far as I can see in the file for that property.

There's nothing Thank you So with this time We may keep the hearing open is there further discussion but between the council members I

Okay.

As there's no more discussion, I will close the public hearing portion and begin deliberation. At this time, you have multiple motions, possible motions. The council may reverse or affirm, wholly or partly, or may modify the decision or order appealed from and may make any decision in order that is, in its opinion, ought to be made in the matter. And to that end, it has all the powers of the public officer. All right, it will require four members of the council. It is necessary to reverse or modify any decision. Okay, the council also has... power in passing upon appeals when unnecessary hardships would result from carrying out the strict letter of the ordinance, to adapt the application of the ordinance to the necessities of the case, and that the spirit of the ordinance is observed, public safety and welfare secured, and substantial justice done. So at this time, do I have any motion or discussion from the council?

I believe we want to pass a motion prior than have a discussion.

Well, we need to make a decision. And the decision is, you know, that's what's the binding. You can discuss all you want after the decision, but the decision is final once we make a decision.

Well, to Bob's point, we would either have a motion to uphold the hearing officer or to override the hearing officer and then a discussion.

And modify, correct? I think there are draft orders. to affirm or to reverse in your agenda packets. Yes.

Do we not have to pass a motion first before we can have discussion, as we usually do? Discussion is first.

I mean, someone can make a motion to reverse or to affirm and then have discussion.

Yeah. In this one, the discussion is prior to the motion.

So that I'm clear, because this is the first time any of us have really done this. We are all learning as we go. It's really not about what our hearts or heads think. It is the black and white by state statute. If the repairs exceed that 50% value, we don't really have a lot of wiggle room. Because personally, I'm very torn by it. This is something I take very serious. But I also realize that there's some state statute involved here that my heart doesn't really get to.

Bob, your thoughts on that?

Really, the choices are affirmed tonight or modified somehow. Now, what kind of modification would be in order, if any in order, would be, I think, a council discussion. You have the evidence in front of you.

Certainly. Bob, the phrase unnecessary hardship, how does that enter into this if we were to rule that condemn the property tonight, but we think there's unnecessary hardship on a gentleman that's gone through COVID, gone through losing his daughter, gone through different things?

That might be a basis for some kind of modification. And, you know, the unnecessary hardship in this context is different than the unnecessary hardship in the context of a Board of Adjustment being asked to grant a variance. You know, it's not the same thing because the circumstances are different. There's still supposed to be some hardship that's attached to the condition of the property. Personal hardship is not necessarily a basis for the determination of unnecessary hardship. Because it's separated and apart from the condition of the property.

Is it not true that every property that comes to be condemned, once it gets to that point, its value is only $6,000 or $7,000? So every property that comes before a board to be condemned, it's a 50% criteria.

I mean, it's possible that the value, it depends on how damaged the property is. I mean, here, again, you have in front of you photographs and testimony about what the condition of the property was or was on April 6th and presumably is close to today.

And the town has nothing to do with the value, establishing the value. Brunswick County sent an assessor out and the assessor determined the value, and property owners can appeal to Brunswick County the determination of value of your property, but you have to do that within so many days. So the town didn't establish this number. This isn't a lowball number that the town came up with.

And the statute does provide that it is the tax value of the property as it appears on the latest assessment rule. So we don't have, we as a staff don't have authority to change that. It is what it is currently.

So even if we were to modify the determination, how does one, what would a modification look? Would we give, for example, instead of 60 more days to, execute the either removal or demolition, could we give six months to work on the property, but there wouldn't be a new tax assessment that would then potentially increase the value of the property to then get him closer to the 50% and outside of the So I guess you're offering a modification, but what modification could possibly help a hardship? It seems like a circle.

They're kind of a whirlpool.

Because if we were to say, here's 10 more years, the extension would just be extending the previous finding, which was you have. And the result of that finding was you have to demolish or remove. It doesn't give. Theoretically, he could rebuild this home, and at the end of the 10 years, he would still have to demolish it or remove it.

Right. There is a finding that could have been made that's less than dilapidation. That is, if the cost to repair was less than 50% of the taxable value of the property, then a different order could have been made. But again, we're stuck with the facts that we have here. you know might the board say you know we'll give you six months to bring it up to snuff and if you haven't done that then you know have 30 days to demolish the board might be able to say that it's not appealed by anybody can i ask a question about that if that because i don't want us to go down that path if we were to give that timeline is it inappropriate to ask the homeowner

does he have the finances in order to do that? Because that one is contingent to the other. If we give him time, but he still doesn't have the financial ability, and I'm not speaking for your financial, I'm just trying to ask the question, is that an inappropriate question for us to ask?

Well, I think it's, I mean, you have to, I think it's a fair question to ask because you have to see how realistic is it that,

So to that point, if there's any chance that we're going to look for some kind of modification, I'm going to ask for the hearing to be reopened because I have a lot of questions. Agreed.

What would be required to bring it up to us now?

Do we have the option to hold the hearing, a decision on this, until the next council meeting?

Or do we have to act tonight? You don't have to act tonight. The record is closed, though, so there's no room for the introduction of new evidence or testimony. Correct. If the council needs time to kind of turn it around in their minds and then come back next time and be ready to make a decision, I mean, that's perfectly legal.

Are we able to reopen the hearing for new evidence at the next hearing? Because this is all new to us.

Yeah, we're all in a learning curve. While you're here tonight, someone can make a motion to reconsider the motion to close the hearing, leave the hearing open, continue the hearing until your next regularly scheduled meeting. I mean, I'm just thinking about this procedurally. It's all kind of silly in some ways, but procedurally, we want to do it right.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting that we do reopen the hearing. I'm just saying. If we're going to talk about something besides a yes or no, then I have a lot more questions.

But equally, in terms of appreciating process, if we were to reconsider the motion to close and essentially bring it to a next meeting, we continue to not discuss this topic amongst ourselves or anyone else. Correct. Just like any other. Right. And I think Councilman Gardner maybe is getting at is if something was paused and reopened, there would be a lot of questions, I assume, as to what it means to bring this property up to code and documents outlining a dollar figure and sensitive public questions being asked of a resident and their ability to pay in a timely manner, just trying to outline the delicacy of what we would be discussing in public.

If I could, I think to the applicant, you have been through hell and back with health issues and family issues. And my heart goes out to you, and we've all had a huge cross to bear individually as well. My concern is the pilings were placed five years ago. And should we decide to delay this for six months or a year, then we could potentially be back in the same exact situation. And I think that five years has been sufficient, eight letters, multiple hearings. And if we just continue this, I just don't think we're actually going to come to fruition to an end game. So I would like to make a motion to approve the ordinance ordering further proceedings under the purpose of the Town of Boca Island Minimum Housing Code and General Statute 160D, Article 12, as presented.

Second.

OK, we do have a motion on the table. All those in favor of that motion? Is there discussion?

Yeah.

You can have more discussion.

We were kicking around a modification. I'd like to ask Mr. Wallace if six months, if he could accomplish what all needs to be accomplished in six months. So we can't do that? We can't do that right now.

That's part of the hearing, which is closed. OK. Other discussion?

Well, I can appreciate Bob's point. And we may end up back here. And this might irritate some people.

Yeah, you can say it.

Gosh.

It's OK.

I want to be able to live with my decision. So I would like us to reconsider to maybe modify this. Sorry, y'all. Gosh.

If nobody else is willing, that's fine. But I would like us to consider that.

I'd like to consider that too, Ms. Bynum.

I see y'all's point. I really do. My heart, when I read the conditions of what has happened since 2021 or since the storm, it breaks my heart. It's unfortunate and it's sad. We as a council have held Taylor and Taylor staff's feet to the fire over code enforcement. We have beat them to death. What have you done about this property? What have you done about that property? And we continue to make it a priority for this council. If we don't uphold this tonight, I don't wanna ever hear anybody say anything else about minimum housing or code violations. It's a sad situation, but the evidence is clear. This has gone on for six years.

Okay, understood. Any other comments? Okay, we do have a motion on the table to affirm the decision. All those in favor? All those opposed? Motion does pass. No, it does not. No, you're affirming, not modifying.

It needed four votes.

It didn't get four votes.

I thought you only needed four votes to modify or reverse.

Correct. To affirm, you only need a majority. It's a simple majority to affirm. To reverse or modify is a super majority.

Yes. So it does pass. 3-2. That does conclude the quasi-judicial hearing process.

Mayor, I'm not sure of the process for this. We do have an order. Does that need to be circulated to council for them to affirm at this meeting?

I think it would be best to have it circulated among council just to make sure they're all comfortable with it.

Take one and pass one down, please.

All right With that we do continue on to item three Consideration of approval for an ordinance ordering further proceedings on the purpose of the town of Oak Island minimum housing code general statute 160d article 12

Do I need some kind of action from council to affirm this order?

I think they ought to approve the form of the order. We need to approve the form of the order? Have it signed and filed. And that would mark the time for someone who wants, anyone wants to appeal. The time to appeal begins when the signed order is filed with the clerk.

So we do need a, you said a motion to approve the form of this order? Yes. Okay.

So moved.

Second? Second. Okay. All those in favor? Or all those opposed? Motion passes. That brings us to the next.

And I just had a question about that order. Will that be signed tonight so that I can provide? Okay. Yes. So our next one is going to be a minimum housing ordinance adoption. So we're at the end of the minimum housing process for this address, and it's 4308 East Oak Island Drive. So again, some case history. Notice of violations were first mailed to this property owner in September of 2020. At least 13 notice of violation letters were mailed to the property owner with no response. Alternatively, we pursued the case as minimum housing in early 2026. An administrative warrant was executed on April 7th, and staff inspected the interior of the structure. The minimum housing hearing was held on April 29th. The owners did not attend. However, several adjacent property owners did. After reviewing the evidence, the hearing officer found the property to be in a dilapidated condition. Again, dilapidated means the cost of required repairs exceed 50% of the tax value of the structure, and that does not include the value of the land. The tax value of this structure was $128,940. The estimated cost of repairs was $94,166. And again, once they hit a certain number, we tell them to stop, and it's not an in-depth estimate. It's a broad view. The order was issued, and it ordered the demolition of the structure within 90 days. Again, the deadline was today, August 18th. the condition of the property or why they received that violation. They found a failure to maintain heating facilities in a safe and good working condition, failure to maintain electrical fixtures, equipment, and wiring in a state of good repair, failure to maintain a roof. The roof was allowing water intrusion, and it was damaging the walls and the floors. Failure to maintain sanitary facilities in a good working condition failure to provide hot and cold water supply failure to maintain property in a sanitary condition Also, there's overgrown vegetation. The structure is barely visible from the street and it's not accessible by a vehicle There is no driveway because it's surrounded by vegetation Additionally evidence of trespassing was observed on the property at the time of our inspection paraphernalia associated with illegal drug use was observed inside the home and Here's some pictures of the outside of the property. Those were taken today. So that's what it looks like right now. That's the front of the house on the left. And then on the right appears to be like some sort of path that people were taking to get to the property. And there's some police tape. Here's a few pictures of the inside. On the far left is the kitchen. You can kind of see that there's vines and things growing through the kitchen cabinets. The middle picture is one of the holes in the ceiling, and it goes all the way out through the roof. And then the third is some of the drug paraphernalia that was observed. On the left, again, that's another hole. Mr. Brooke checking it out with a flashlight. One of the bathrooms in disrepair. And then that picture is showing up a little dark on here, but it kind of shows the unsanitary state of the inside of the house. And that's about it on this one. I don't think any of the hindrance or their agent are here. Just a little bit of background. We have been in contact with the family's real estate agent, and they do have an attorney. They are looking to actively sell the property so that they don't incur the cost of having to demo the property. One of the family members, there's several of them that have inherited the property. One of them is underage. And so they had to go through the guardian ad litem process. And that's taking a little bit longer than they expected. They had emailed requesting more time. And I have thought that someone was going to attend the meeting to speak to you all. But it doesn't look like anyone's here. But they have requested at least a staff more time to finish out that process.

And did they ask for us? I think I heard four months.

They did not ask for a specific time, but in my conversations with the town attorney, the town attorney recommended about four months.

And that is to get the underage guardian ad litem set up?

The real estate agent indicated they only needed a few more weeks per the courts to have that process finished out, and then they would be looking to go forward with the sale of the property.

Taylor, a couple of questions. So you're talking to the real estate broker, but not to any family member.

The family members are all on the email chain. There's one family member in particular, his name is Shane, who has been late since the order has been given, who is more communicative. We were able to get a hold of him by phone, and he's also, they had, this property had some back bills with the utilities and whatnot. He was the one who paid those to get them current.

Could you go back to your first slide, if you don't mind? So very similar to the case we just heard, there were 13 notices of violation, no response to any of those.

No response to any of the letters or to the minimum housing hearing notices. However, because one of the family members had paid the utility bill at the same time this was happening, when he paid it online, we were able to capture his credit card and phone number. And we called him. And he had no idea that the property was in the state that it was. He told us he hadn't been to the property in over 20 years. Once we talked to him and kind of told him what we found, he seemed agreeable to getting the other family members on board and making them aware. And he provided the addresses of all those other family members too so that I could provide notice to all of them.

So until that point, the letters that you were sending were going somewhere.

They were going to the right address. It's just for the, I think he's the husband of the deceased who owned the house. but there are three sons, adult sons, who also have inherited a portion of this property whose addresses we did not have. I found out later that one of the adult sons lives with the father, so they would have been getting those letters.

So other than the fact that one of the beneficiaries is a child and you have to set it up, do you see any difference between this situation and the situation that we previously discussed?

This situation, they have not expressed any interest in repairing the house to us. Okay. I think they're looking to sell.

So, Tyler, the similarity with this and the last one is this property should be condemned, in your opinion. However... You've talked to the people and your office has chosen to ask for a four month extension for these people, is that correct?

I'm not requesting a four month extension. The real estate representative of the property owner is requesting an extension.

And the family says that they have enough time to set up a guardian ad litem they can then sign off on selling the property. And they're not trying to hold anything up. They're just trying to get their ducks in order.

I don't really want to comment on the transaction part of that because real estate can go a lot of different ways. I don't want to speak for what any of one family member's attitudes might be towards the sale.

But it wouldn't be a wild conclusion to make that they are doing some form of due diligence related to how you That is a step one that would even allow them to sell this piece of property.

Yeah, getting a real estate agent and listing it would be the first step.

And so that's a clear distinction from the previous? Yes.

The hearing of April 29th, you said several adjacent property owners attended. Did they comment?

They did.

What were their comments?

Most of them were just kind of interested to hear what was going on with the property because it is in the state that it's in. I don't really recall any of them having like complaints so much. They were just more so interested in what was happening.

You don't have a situation like you've got rodents, vermin coming into other people's yards as far as you know because of the condition of this property?

We did actually, we did get, I think one who said, I'm not sure if it was rodents, but he did have some complaints about the vegetation itself intruding onto his property because of the size of it and the height of it. He's not able to manage it without like going on their property. And so it's kind of put him into a weird spot where he's got this like overhang that he can't manage.

But this property has attracted trespassers and drug paraphernalia.

Yes. I didn't put the picture in here. The doors were locked when we went. The police officer had to kick it in. But once we got in, because we couldn't access the side of the house and we went through the interior to get to the side, we could see where the screen and porch had been like a hole had been ripped out of it. And that was what the police officer identified as likely how they were getting into the house.

find it interesting that these folks, we're looking at six years again, these folks chose not to respond to the town in any way until they got a notice that said, you've got X number of days to tear your house down and we're going to tear it down for you and send you a bill. And that seems to be the only thing that got their attention.

I mean that correct it also was six years that the town sat on 13 notices of violation before it shows to pursue minimum housing as a strong policy or Enforce that policy that likely was on the books.

Yep minimum housing Has we have an adopted minimum housing ordinance? I just don't think the town had a minimum housing program code enforcement prior to me being here I had not been enforcing minimum housing

And Tommy, it's unfortunate, but if you don't know the history behind our former town attorney, let you and I go have a talk.

No, very fair. I just, to me, this is a very, I don't want to step on any, I guess we'll still discuss. I would make a motion that we approve the ordinance ordering the further proceedings under the purpose of the town of Oak Island Minimum Housing Code and General Statute 160D, Article 12, subject to And I would propose a two-month extension. I don't know if that's the right verbiage. I can't imagine if they were able to sell it, if they sell this, that the new buyer would somehow try to fix everything instead of demolish it to begin with.

Even if the property sells, the order stands. They can't decide to repair it.

And I think that Protects the town and the neighbors as well that someone attempting to fix something that staff has in my opinion rightfully decided is dilapidated and I Don't want to say it's not fixed fixable, but is dilapidated. Okay, that's helpful So my motion is this I approve the motion to approve the ordinance furthering proceedings under the purpose of the town of Oak Island minimum housing code and General Statute 160D, Article 2, as presented, subject to a two-month extension.

I'll second that.

And what is your reasoning behind a two-month extension?

I think if this collective now, I'm making assumptions, and you can criticize that, that's fine. If they are If I can make a general assumption that this group of property owners are taking steps to be able to offload this piece of property by selling it, and then it will be demolished, I don't believe we should add an additional you need to demolish this Well, I guess 90 days is over two months, so maybe we keep it to the 90 days um, but I see movement and Does this at all impact a sale?

I'm not quite sure it shouldn't because you said it it follows through The order stand it runs with the land so whether it changes hands changes ownership whoever owns that property has to comply with the order I

No, no, I answered your question, and I agree with your question now after talking it through.

You want to do the original, modify your motion to bring it to?

I want to discuss, because to me there is a distinction here. So I just want to ensure we, and again, I appreciate that a better or a, the type of residents and property owners that I think we all would love to have as our neighbors. It shouldn't take 13 notices of violation or minimum housing evaluation to be placed on your property before you start taking accountability for very clear violations. But I view this group of property owners folks who are inheriting this property as taking steps to improve it, i.e. sell it and then likely demolish it. So to the extent, I'll rescind my motion, but to the extent that ordering the demolition within 90 days, we feel in our discussion could somehow impact the speed in which they could sell this. I don't think it would impact the fact that there's somehow a minor involved. then I would request our motion to address that concern. And if there's no concern after we discuss it, then I'm OK with ordering it as it was presented.

So the way I'm looking at your two-month extension, first of all, I don't think you're going to find a realtor who's going to say, well, I'll only list that house for two months. Because at the end of two months, if it doesn't sell, we're right back where we are tonight.

Well, so the intent of mine was that, It's ordered, and at two months, I guess then the 90 days would kick in. So we wouldn't bring it back.

Their 90 days expired today.

Okay, then I think it's important to extend it. For what reason?

Sorry, I had something in my throat. Mayor Brown looking at me.

So a quick thing, the demolition of the structure was ordered to be completed by today?

Today.

Okay. How many family members are involved? I'm trying to follow the path.

I think it's, I want to say five, but that might be wrong. I know for sure there's three adult brothers, and then I think one of them has children that had an ownership interest.

And Taylor, did they understand the urgency of tonight's meeting?

They emailed a few times, so it did appear to me that they understood.

I mean, we're talking about the hearing was held in August. That was four months ago.

And I do want to note that on that 90-day notice part of it, they actually have had longer than 90 days because I had sent the order right after we did the hearing. That was before y'all, sorry, the board, the council, amended our procedures. So after the procedures were amended, I sent them

second order that said due to a recent change in the ordinance you now have 90 days from this date so technically they have had longer than 90 and to appreciate the process sorry for all the questions to appreciate the process we approve this today the town doesn't step in to perform or contract out the actual demolition until the end of 90 days at which point Once completed, a lien is placed on the property. But we wouldn't. They have 90 days to demolish themselves, and that's when the town then would step in if they fail to do it by the end of the 90 days.

Are you adding on 90 days? Because we're at the end of 90 days now.

The deadline was today.

We're at the end of the 90 days.

Help us this way, then. If the deadline was today, and if we uphold the hearing officer's finding, What happens next, and what is the timeline in which it happens?

The town can move forward with the demolition. It would be a matter of me likely finding a contractor to do the work, the town paying for that work, just like the other one. Once the work is completed and I receive an invoice, I then create an invoice to that property owner. They have 30 days to pay. If they don't pay within 30 days, I formally hand it off to our tax person, Danielle. It's usually me who actually goes to the courthouse and does it, though, but I could put a lien on the property for that amount. Let's say, theoretically, the property doesn't sell. After a certain period of time, the town could decide to move on a foreclosure to recoup that money, but if the property sells, the town would just get their part of it, is how it should work.

Taylor, just like the last situation, if the town were to knocked down that building. The heirs, the eight or nine or ten heirs that are out there, they still own that land. They still own the land. They can still sell it. It was a knocked down building. I felt sorry in the last hearing for a man who lives here and hasn't taken care of business very well, but he came here tonight to say, I'm going to try very hard to take care of business. Give me one more chance. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people that haven't been here in 20 years who live out of state and are saying, give us some more time, and didn't come to this hearing tonight to say, let me explain our side to you.

I do just want to say that most of them do live in the state. They just don't live in Oak Island. They're in the Charlotte area.

To your point, I mean, 13 letters. It didn't come to the April hearing. And for us to give any kind of extension, you know, I'd say, you know, my—

Recommendations we just move forward on this and they still own the property and then they can figure it out actually get their land value Builder will be thankful the house is not down because they want to build a big nice 2500 square foot house on the front to echo councilman partners comments is

We have been all over, Taylor, we as an entity, to the 0.01% of the homes in Oak Island that have allowed themselves to get in this condition to have staff come in and to move forward and make recommendations and to improve these. They are eyesores. And it's not fair for their neighbors to allow this to continue to happen. And again, in my case, this is pretty black and white.

It looked like you wanted to say something, so I just wanted to make sure.

And maybe this has already been made clear. The difference between this appeal or this matter and the last one is that in the last case, Mr. Lee and Mr. Wallace appealed, so that suspended the 90-day period from running. In this case, there was no appeal, so the 90-day period started running on April whatever. That's helpful. They can appeal this. Thus, the town could go ahead and start demolition tomorrow if the board of the council approved the order today.

So Councilman Brown, are you still stuck on?

No, this has been helpful. And apologies for getting the deadline all messed up.

It's been a long curve.

So I will then, excuse me, I will make a motion to approve the ordinance ordering further proceedings under the purpose of the Town of Oak Island Minimum Housing Code General Statute 160D Article 12 as presented.

Second.

Okay. All in favor?

Five-0. OK, we have one last item for this evening. It's the consideration of the facade improvement grant program policy updates.

Good evening, mayor and council. I have a quick presentation here about the facade improvement grant. So the facade program provides matching reimbursement grants to encourage private investment in our commercial properties and improve the appearance of Oak Island's commercial corridors. The program was to provide up to 50% of eligible costs with awards up to $10,000 as the max. So the idea here is to improve our properties by leveraging the private investment dollars and strengthening the appearance of our commercial corridors. So there's been two years of the program. There were four projects completed in the first fiscal year and five in the second year for a total of nine projects. And it totaled $59,230.12 in town funding, with the total investment being $124,476.24 of total investment, so the town and the private. that total investment. And you'll see before and after pictures here of different projects along the way. So what things did the program fund? Across the two years, it did building repairs and exterior renovations, exterior painting, some signage, landscaping, some parking and driveway improvements. Siding as you can see in this one and some site cleanup so all things designed to improve the parent appearance of our commercial areas So why update the program this was a new program two years ago So it's some of the things are to create a more predictable annual funding cycle provide a fair way to compare projects and when requests exceed available funding, clarify eligibility and the documentation requirements, strengthen some of the contractor quote requirements, and establish a consistent completion timeline and improve accountability in some of the closeout procedures. So all of the changes are kind of about the lessons learned in the first two years of the program. One of the main things is the addition of evaluation criteria. So here is what I've outlined here. The largest part of the criteria will be the overall visual improvement of the proposed project. So that's really about that specific site, how much it will improve the project. And then the enhancement of the surrounding commercial area. So that will take into account where it is, the project, and where it is in the town. The quality and completeness of the project and the application, project readiness and ability to be completed by the deadline, consistency with town design standards, UDO, the level of private investment, and the use of Oak Island contractors or businesses when practical is the lowest piece of this, but a consideration that we'd like to have. So the revised timeline will include an application window from October and November. And then in December, we'll evaluate the applications and announce the ones that will be awarded in December so that between January and April, the projects that were approved can take place. And by May 1, have all of that documentation and the projects complete kind of before the season is really ramping back up. And so this last slide just kind of points out all of the changes made in the program. So again, the application window for October and November. Applications will all be reviewed together instead of on a rolling basis. The addition of the evaluation criteria clarifies that the property owner must be in active commercial use. So before it was kind of just the commercial zones, but We're specifically saying not residential. It has to be a commercial use in the commercial zone. An arm's length quote requirement. So we've had some questions through the program where a realtor had applied and they may have a contractor that worked with them, but we want to create some distance in that. So an arm's length quote requirement. to encourage Oak Island businesses, contractors, wear practical, and the uniform May 1st deadline so that we can complete it all before the end of the fiscal year. Both years we had projects that weren't done by the end of the fiscal year, and so that had been another thing that we wanted to change. And that is the end. I will keep this here and answer any questions.

All right.

Any questions?

I think this is one of the best programs we've ever put forward in Oak Island. It's a carrot. It's not a stick, right? And one of the good things about it, it's connecting the Oak Island community with the owners of these properties, not the businesses that are running it. It's the owners who are somewhat disconnected from us. So it really helps establish that connectivity between the business owners and town of Oak Island. My only... concern is that this is a program for small businesses, to support small businesses. But yet, we only have five points if they use a local contractor. And I would like to see us make that significantly greater. We want to encourage our business owners here to use other business owners in Oak Island and keep that business here within the Oak Island town limits. And mom's saying we have to do it tonight, but is that something that you could tweak?

Absolutely.

Come back to us and see if you can't bump that number up a little bit.

Yeah. I, too, am a huge fan of this, and I've enjoyed working on it with you and us coming up with that, encouraging Oak Island contractors. I think that's a great point. I also think it's important. I just sort of noticed it now. If you look at the pictures of the businesses that have taken advantage of it, for example, you have Cool Stuff. You had, I know, Skipper Realty. I think it also encourages a lot of the neighbors. You see Cool Stuff back in 24, 25 updated their facade. Right next door, you had Hope Chest paint their front building about a year later. You have Skipper Realty. They laid that beautiful rock down. And that strip sort of next to them, they painted their outside. I think it encourages others to follow suit because the difference in appearance probably is a lot more apparent um and whether they choose or go through the hoops to enjoy this benefit i think it sort of presents a two-fold um great benefit for the town both the individual business owner but it also uh sort of encourages their neighbors to to look for ways they can improve as well so i'm very much in favor of this absolutely

So, Hallie, can you just help clarify for me how the program works? Because I know a lot of our businesses are in leased spaces. So, obviously, they can't do something to a property they don't own. Is the process that they have, they get the buy-in from the owner? And does the owner have to apply or does the business apply or how does that work?

We've had both. They're required to have permission from the owner if it is the business that's applying. And I've seen it in one project where the owner was paying for it and then others where the business was doing it. It has kind of depended on the relationships. I will say we've had, I have many more meetings of people interested than the nine projects that have been completed. A lot of the times it's where the business is interested in doing it and not the owner. So that is certainly something we've come up against.

Yeah, I would certainly say that's the biggest hurdle to this program is that most of our businesses in the commercial district do not own their businesses. And it's great if we could get some owners involved, like Bob said. But unfortunately, we have some pretty checked out owners as well that just don't care at this point. But I do love the program. We kind of developed this while I was on the business advisory board. I do like the point system. I think that's a good change. Yeah, I just wish we could figure out how to engage. Because when we launched it, I remember calling every owner. I mean, you and I had that conversation. I was texting, and I'm like, hey, take advantage. And so many of them were like, hey, my owner won't even let me change the color of my mailbox, much less do this. So I wish we could just figure out a way to make it

Since we have the tax records of the owners, have we done an outreach campaign to them to make them aware of this program?

We have. There are some things in our economic development strategic plan that you guys adopted about property owner outreach. So I'm not specific to this program, but we hope to continue working on that more. And this program would be part of that, hoping we could. Get some more buy-in from the property owners.

Can I ask you a question? Because I can't remember the differentiation of this. Let's say there is a property owner, like the one that was on Long Beach Road, because I did not realize they had done the grant. If there is a property owner that owns multiple units, can they apply for it for each? Like, let's say there's four storefronts in their complex. Can they apply for it four times? Or would it just be one for the whole complex?

Complex it's specifically says per the property or the parcel Yes, so that actually happened with the long beach road property one of the tenants reached out first Learned about the program then went to the property owner and the property owner applied to do the whole project the Evaluation what board evaluates the application I? So previously, it was just me. If they met the program requirements and then it was first come, first serve, what I'm proposing here is a staff of economic development, planning, and building will evaluate the criteria laid out in the program.

When you drive around town and see, guys, that property sure could use a facelift, do you solicit those businesses?

There was a big push right when the program started. The whole business advisory board can attest. I went around door to door doing it. And we've talked recently about doing another push. Because certainly that, you could tell in the first year, it was the getting people to know that the program existed. But I think we could absolutely do another campaign.

OK, here comes my difficult question. Because this isn't grant money. This is money taken out of our general budget and given to your department to disperse. If I were to win the lottery tomorrow, and I win $200 million, and then I buy two properties on Oak Island Drive, but I'm worth $200 million, But it's first come, first serve. Can I then contact your office and say, I want to put some rose bushes in front of my building and a couple benches? And your criteria will say, sure, you're second in line. You'll get $10,000. We need a better system than that. The evaluation criteria needs to be Army Corps of Engineers talk to all the different towns. What town would be most damaged? If the Army Corps of Engineers did not step in to help them with sand re-nourishment, what town would be most damaged? And they didn't pick us, but we sure did come close. Who would be most damaged if the town did not give them taxpayers' money to enhance their building? That just frustrates me, and it frustrated me last time when we voted on this, that somebody with a whole lot more money than I do can ask to have a parking lot fixed or ask to have rose bushes put down. That's not an as-needed basis. So I'd like for you to give that some thought.

you suggesting adding in a financial need component to the evaluation criteria okay so the program was not designed to be about financial need it's really hard to determine I understand where you're coming from if that is something the board wants to consider I'd be open to it if you can tell me how you might evaluate that my other point I would make about this is It's about leveraging the private investment. And so the people that spend $30,000, we're only going to spend 10 of that. But we're going to get 30 of total investment in a project.

I looked at all the numbers. $10,000 was given to a real estate office. $6,000 was given to a drugstore. A law firm got $5,000 or $6,000. One of these days, Oak Island's going to come in here. This council's going to come in here. Next year, two years from now, three years from now, they're going to say, taxpayers of Oak Island, we have to raise your taxes. And when we do that, they're going to say, how much of our money have you given away the last two years, three years? I'd like to have a better answer.

Yes, sir. The more valuable projects give us more bang for our buck.

So that's my thought.

If I could just, the way I look at it, this is begin with the end in mind, Dr. Stephen Covey. And our end game is we just want to clean up these businesses. So it makes no difference to me how much money that that person has that owns the building. If we get the end result, which is we get it cleaned up because they're investing and we're simply doing the matching gift, I think we get the end game that we're looking for. So we look at the before pictures and the after pictures, so we get a lot more of the after pictures. Otherwise, we're going to have to ask for tax returns, or they have to fill out an application and put their annual revenue for the business. And I think that's going to take us into a place we don't necessarily want to be, personally.

even think and we you know you and I've had this conversation but it really did just hit me some of these like I think about some of these businesses that you may we may perceive how to have a lot of money they actually also generate a lot of money into our economy they provide jobs they pay sales tax they pay now their property is worth more their property value has gone up they're going to pay more property taxes on that might not be substantial but I think, you know, they do pump a lot of money into our economy.

And it beautifies what we are attempting to make walkable, too. We're not, I don't think someone's going to avoid walking on East Oak Island Drive because a business looks ugly. But to the extent it's right next to one that they do want to visit, I mean, it plays entirely into the commercial code repair and other goals that this and the previous council have set, which I think are admirable and should be, we should continue to go after.

Well, I mean, it's unfortunate, and we can all sit here tonight and name the businesses that really ought to take advantage of this program won't do it. And they are the iStores in town.

Yeah.

And there is a reality that we're probably going to run out of, I don't want to say customers, but We're going to run out of people who are going to use this to a certain degree because the ones who are going to take advantage of it are going to use it. The ones that are not, we're never going to persuade them not to.

That raises a question for me. So is there anything in this that restricts how many times they can apply? Like if I get a grant this year, and I painted my building, and gee, I don't quite like the color, so I apply next year to paint it a different color. Do we have a restriction on how often they can apply?

It just says for the same property once a year. So that was more thinking about those properties that were multiple ones that they couldn't apply for different things. But I'm open to adding that.

I think your evaluation criteria is subjective and flexible enough that, for example, overall visual improvement to the property. If you painted it last year and you're coming to the town to say, I want to repaint it, That's not a overall visual improvement. That's a change in your mind. I think that's a great potential roadblock. And I think Councilman Kraft's concern is valid as well. But I think this will be year three. You've identified areas of improvement and will continue us. I'm sure you'll come up with a number of areas to improve after you go through one year of evaluating. But I think you're steering this ship, so to speak, in the right direction and improving it over what it was previously. And again, I'm very much in favor of this. So with that in mind, I'll make a motion to approve the updated facade improvement grant program as presented.

Second. Second. Any more discussion? All those in favor? 4. Opposed? 1. Okay. That concludes our items on our agenda. We are not going to be going into a closed session. So with that, do I have a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second. All those in favor? We are now adjourned. Thank you all for coming.