Storm Water Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. You use that mic. You use that mic. [Music] This is So Mike, you're when you're ready, roll call, please. Barbara here. Todd Elliot here. Paul Heaggan, Bill Lair here. Paul Nelson here. Scott Severson here.

Andy Vasquez here. You have a horn, sir. Thank you. So, new business. First item, docket number SM250013. NIPCO here in person or are they going to be online? Oh, Nipco. Okay. Oh, great. Are you the NIPCO uh representative that always comes in person? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Usually. Yeah. Welcome. Five minutes away. So much easier. Yeah. Great. It's easier for all of us to be. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And Mike, you give us you have name, address. Oh, please. Yeah, your name.

I'm Rachel Schmagenoff at 801 East 86th Avenue in Marville, Indiana. Thank you. You're welcome. And I'd like to read just a general statement, which Okay. Okay. All recommendations will be voted on at the next board meeting. Applicant does not need to attend that meeting, but may attend if they wish. After that approval, staff will will applicant. The hold harmless agreement. The final approval letter will be issued once executed. Hold harmless agreement is received. So that apply to all cases tonight since NIPCO is the only one for two. Are you taking care of both of them for us? I didn't know there was another one. All right. Go ahead, Mike.

KSM25- Z0013 from the North District of Porter County, Nipsco and Environmental Consultants, Inc. action is a replacement installation of utility poles down guide down wires and related construction activities within the regulated drain lenberg ditch to accommodate accommodate the NIPCO Viper carry packet six project within the city of portage. Lindberg ditch is on the west side of Willow Creek Road north of Stone and Lindberg ditch on the east and west side of Hampton Road in the south side of the intersection of Central Avenue. Staff has reviewed this and the construction plans. They want to retire one utility on the west side of Wood Creek Road within the legal drain as part of the project. P 864530 appears to be located north of the apparent closed ditch portion of Lynburg Road. Staff requested applicant in order that a contractor confirm the location of tile portion of the ditch prior to work. Any damage lender ditch caused by downg installation shall be repaired by the applicant as shown on the erosion control plans. Temporary preliminary settlement control i filler filter sock or silt logs will be installed throughout the work area prevent sediment. If water dewatering is required the work timber mats will be used for access and work. wetland. So the rest stuff goes on more functional detail from all this. Staff recommends the approval of the utility ping down guard wire insulation within the regular drainage ement associated. All the standard terms and conditions associated with work will apply including the hold harmless agreement between the applicant and border county and any damages incurred to our assets

will be the responsibility of the applicant. Again, you'll need to contact department at least 72 hours prior to the start of work. So therefore, staff recommends approval allowing NIPCO to do the work project. Thank you, Mike. Any questions from NIPCO? I don't think so. One's pretty straightforward. Luckily, the guy wires are fairly shallow, so Okay. Anticipate any issues. All right. Thank you. Any questions from the board? What are guy gireers used for?

Oh, gwires are used for stability of the poles. So depending how they string up the wire, it creates extra tension on certain poles. So that eliminates that that tension on the line, which helps in longevity of the circuit itself and then not having to do such lengthy repairs. They're nice to have during stiff winds, too. Yes. How how long are your typical guy anchors? They You know what? I'm honestly not sure. I've only seen a couple drawings of them, but they've only put those ones at four feet, but those were in the Duke. So, I'm not sure if that's different. And the reason I brought it up is the commissioner might have been alluding to is the depth of those and having a closed system on the west side,

right? Yeah. With the drink, we want to make sure we're all aware making sure you don't Yeah. No, we don't want to. No, no, none of is will NEPCO be potholeing to expose? Yes. Yep. They usually potholeing to expose. That is also included in our recommendation that they do are located around facility. Any other questions from the board? Okay. So, at this time, the staff recommends the approval. Um, do we have a motion to accept the staff's recommendation? I'll make the motion. Second.

Any further discussion? All in favor say I. I. Same. Oppose. Same sign. All right. The motion carries. Thanks. Thank you. Well, if no one else comes to represent the second one, I can probably I know most of the projects. Okay. Was there anybody else that was going to be here, Mike, for the next one? I think you're doing the next one, too, aren't you? Yeah, I might be. There wasn't scheduled for um online or anything. No one's on Okay.

Is SM25-0014 in the south part of the county. They wish the directional board be inch utility gas pipeline location near Kelly ditch and then purpose that they call is a looks like a sig retirement of regulatory regulator station 79-1 specific location parallel to west state road 8 approximately 10th mile north of the intersection state road 8 and 375 west south 375 west and 37 West staff begins to review the application company documents proposing to install place two new gas mains under ditch which is an open drain in two separate locations. Work will include the new 8 in plastic medium density polyeth medium pressure gas via horizontal direction in place an existing 2in pol gas. It's proposing to place new km gas on west side 375 west which is also with open drain with a 60in pipe minimum of three separation 2 pipe under ditch. also placed a new 8 in gas on the south side state which is open ditch and structure they have to have 8 foot separation between the proposed gas existing drain tile existing structure shall be provided for crossing the drain tile proper erosion that control should be put around work areas

staff recommends the approval of the gas main regulated training associated with again standard terms apply also other documents along the contract any disturbances any damage to our equip as good or better contact the department so we can present during the performance therefore we make a recommendation for approval of SM25-0 Thank you, Mike. Yep. Go. Were you able to find it? I was. Yeah. Um,

do you know anything about it? Perfect. No. No, I don't. Oh, I don't want to speak on behalf of the project. Um, I only work on the electric side. I don't work with anything gas. So, if you have specific questions about the gas side, I am definitely not your person, and I don't want to pretend to be either. Okay. Well, then since we don't have anybody representing NIP school in this, my recommendation is that we postpone this until we can either have somebody via Zoom or in person.

I I and that's fine. The board wishes, but I think this one is so straightforward and we do do a lot of business and I think we can we trusted representative here to pass this on. I could definitely pass this. Yeah, but it's up to you. Yeah, it's definitely up to you. whatever you guys feel comfortable with. Well, she said she doesn't handle this side of it. So, well, Mike, you're comfortable with staff. So, staff is willing to recommend it. Um, if there's if there's a question, my suggestion would be if there's a question that she can't answer that we have, then postpone it, but otherwise, if you have you have a motion. So, if someone wants to second

Okay. The discussion of the All right. So we have a motion. Do I have a second for the motion on the postponing it? Yes. If there's no second, it dies for lack of a second. But you second or let it die. So then

I just personally think that if you are asking to be on the agenda that you need to be here in person and I don't like setting a precedent that we just go with staff recommendation. Um regardless I think it's critical that we have whoever is the petitioner that they be here either in person or make arrangements to appear over Zoom. And it just is getting sloppy when we're just kind of like, oh well, we might as well just do it to get it over with. But we don't have to. We can just postpone this till next month.

I have a question. May or may not know. Do you have any idea what time for the scope of work this would take? I honestly not sure because I'm not sure what the method of installation is. I don't know if they're boring the pipe in. I don't know if they're going to open cut. See, my my concern is this. Is it critical for that gas to be there? Will there be interruptions in service if we don't go forward as opposed to going forward? Let's see. So, this looks like it is trying to see what the name of the projects are.

It looks like it's replacement. So, there won't be an interruption in Yeah, that was actually gonna be one of my questions. What what was what's is this replacing or is a brand new line? But right if it's critical somebody would be. Yes, that's a point. Critical implies attendance. Yes. So, um, so if you're not comfortable with that, um, and based upon this, I'm one of the ones with Scott, as long as we have these issues of do we set precedents by not by them not being here, I I will second Barbs motion.

So, Clay, can we do that or we need to get a new motion then do it? I think the motion is to continue. I believe that's correct if I'm wrong. Okay. I was thinking that and I thought I thought we already voted on this earlier that if the petitioner is not here that we would not hear it. I thought we already voted on this and it was it was established. We did, but once again, we didn't have a NIPCO. This is kind of a liber one, but she's not comfortable. Doesn't have the data on it. And I think it's

Yeah. incumbent upon us to make sure everything is copathetic, right? You will. So you have to take so further discussion. Any further discussion on the motion? So my only my only point I would make is um I think we should so that we should have a further discussion about our policy so we're not doing this in front of a customer. You're going to get

all in favor with electric stoves. So, all in favor uh say I I oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for trying. No skin off my back. I would like to point out with the gas line, Mike. Thank you for being here.

8 foot of separation that was above and beyond what we would normally require, but they're headed in the right direction except for lack of having somebody present. Okay. So, just for clarification, do you want staff to put this on the September meeting or are you wanting someone from NIPCO to reach out and confirm attendance for the September meeting? Think we can go ahead and put it on the September meeting and then have staff. Can we do both and have the staff reach out and just to confirm that they're coming? Okay. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Thank you. And could I ask for the record on the first case tonight? Who me? Is that you, Paul? No, the first one. First case motion. No, I second. I thought Bill was I very Thank you. There's a three-way tie. Three away time. Who made the motion? Paulie, you made the motion on the first one. I made the motion on the first the first one and I second the first one and second the second and I seconded Barb on the second motion.

Barb was first on the second one. Get all the numbers straight. I'm first. No. So old business. Mike, we have no old business. No old business. Uh director's report. No director's Oh yes, there is. Chelsea's coming back. Yes. You mentioned her last week. We got to see the twins. Very wow. One slept the entire time. The other one looking around smiling and yawning. Um

Chelsea is expected back the first week of September. So she will be slowly engaging by emails and all that with us leading up to that, but she'll be back in full force. Uh a lot of you may or may not know I'm banded over left us. He's going up to Minnesota. So, we're actively doing filling that position as well as an assistant engineer to help Chelsea out with her workload. So, we're actively pursuing those two position to get ourselves fully staffed again. Okay. And the assistant engineer is a new position we added from last year's budget session. Yeah, that was going to be my question.

Chelsea uh has a lot she's carrying on her plate. We'd like her to be more creative in other things as a man could be. Okay. I think this will be a good asset for her. Okay. Thank you. So, that should help her a lot. Well, thank you for that was a report. Thank you. And and Melissa, thank you for being here for joining us. I forgot to introduce for those that don't know. Melissa Newberg is the new person in charge. So, you'll be hearing a lot from her. You probably have already. We're pleased to have her with us and she's got a great background. So she's going to be a real asset to the department to this board.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. Next discussion. Let's have a discussion. Are we going to discuss tomatoes or whatever we we'll handle that? Yeah. The discussion in regards to the presence of NIPCO. Is that to be done after? Yeah. Just how we want to handle um Okay.

Little house house clean if you will. or we can wait till Chelsea gets back and have a we've we've we settled this for years and um in this instance I thought there was a slight deviation but we had I thought decided that if you do not attend then it's either remotely or in person that we w we weren't going to do it that way anymore. We've twisted on that before, right? Like not much consistency. Well, we start talking about that and we've had a few of these and it's like,

yeah, what's the point of us having these meetings if they aren't going to show up? So, we have

Well, if if we're just going to accept staff recommendation, then this board doesn't even need to exist and people don't need to show up. I it's really important that um that the petitioner is present either in person or over Zoom and that they can explain a little bit about what they're looking to do so we can hear it. We're lay people. We're not in that industry and so it's important for us to be able to look them in the eye, be able to ask them questions if we want. But I think there is there's an optics problem if we're relying on staff recommendations and the petitioner is not here because that can start to look like collusion or something that we don't want out there in the public. And that is the check and balance of the reason that we have these boards, the reason we have the petitioner in front of us. And certainly it's great to have the staff recommendation because they understand it a lot better, but all of us are here to look them in the eye and make sure that we understand what they're doing. And I think it's important that they're here. I would prefer in person, but I understand under some situations that we have to do it over Zoom. And while not the norm, occasionally you have neighboring property owners who have a question or might even want to remmonstrate or object to what the request is. And having someone here or online to help answer questions or alleviate concerns can also be helpful.

Exactly. And I was going to add that that Barb and I both go back to storm water management board and if we have any questions before that time it's best that all these things are resolved. That's the purpose of this board is to be advisory and also to try to nail down all of the issues before it gets to the other Paul you're nodding you're nodding your head you've been great. Yeah, Clayton the even better point is have a petitioner here. Yeah. So I wouldn't if we had a petitioner neighbor I should say not but a neighbor.

So um yeah my response to that would be if there's a petitioner here or if there's a question that can't be answered well then we would table it. But um I have full confidence in the staff recommendation and I know you do too. I think we all do. But I think Barb's strongest argument is just from a um I think you said from a transparency perspective process or a process. I think that's the

and as and as Kevin mentioned the recommendation of this board then goes to the storm water management board and Kevin and I are on that board and if they say well what about this and if we didn't have the petitioner here then it's kind of like you know this process isn't exactly that's another good argument I think that's a legitimate argument because you're you're kind of trusting that the board reviewed it thoroughly and it right? The optics isn't very good if they didn't show up and we just

Right. And I would ask staff that anytime someone is on the agenda that they have a very clear understanding that if they are not present that their part that their their application or whatever will be postponed until the next meeting. They need to understand that. Clay, is that something that we make as a rule or is how you know that that's the I mean standard?

You can certainly make that a rule or a policy. I'm not sure as far as enforcing it because as this board membership changes from year to year and it's certainly not something that's part of county code. Um certainly my understanding but you know with with other matters such as like the board of zoning fields or plan commission you have to show up. Um, but if that's kind of an unwritten rule or or policy that's conveyed to applicants to show up a person if that's the board's desire alternatively on these. Yeah. So storm water board could create that rule that's enforceable that this body would have to follow.

Then how would we make it enforceable? Would it have to be voted on by the commissioners or the stormwater board. Yeah, I don't talk to county attorney Mccclure, but I think to have because the storm water board that or the commissioners and kept to my understanding sit on that would have to essentially create that rule that this board would have to follow and enforce. Is that something that you could spearhead or that something Kevin would need to spearhead? I think I think between staff and myself, maybe an attorney core with the county, we could work on that in conjunction and then put together some draft language for us to look at.

Yeah. Possibly next meeting or the following. Okay. All right. Okay. Do we want to take a motion on that or is this just But just to clarify, I think it would be a rule that would be adopted by this storm water board, not by the swab. Yeah. Well, since the this board is the advisory board to the storm water management board, it probably should be come from the storm water management board, a policy to the advisory board, which is this board, that we require the petitioner be present for the case to be heard. What I'm hearing is the advisory board is recommending that we adopt this rule,

right? Okay. So, if we're making correct Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So if that's a recommendation, should we make that a motion that Clay? Sure. Okay. So moved. Okay. Second. Barb's like on it here. Um any any further discussion? All in favor say I. I post same sign. Okay. Motion motion carries. So good there. Thank you. Great. Okay. So that way we will there's no the potential is minimal. We if we get this resolved then we won't have slippage and we won't be consistently inconsistent. Yeah. Okay. Our next commissioner's meeting and I if we have a um storm water management board meeting would be on the 26th.

We should say since we have some business if we have business I don't know if we'll we'll have it though. Depends on Yeah. Let's do it. If I understand this right, staff with storm water attorney and county attorney will sit down and draft something for your next meeting for you to peruse and send them to the storm water board. Yes. Recommendation. Yeah. As a recommendation. Yes. Okay. Great. Can I any other clarify? I'm not sure. So Clay, do you represent do you guide us or do you also guide the storm water management board? Just this board. Just a board. Okay.

Mccclure. Does he come to your meetings? Your storm water management board meeting. He saw Okay. I didn't know if you were a dual. Okay. Sorry. Good question. Any other discussion? So basically what you're what we just said is that we're going to wait until our next meeting to make a recommendation to the storm water management board meeting. Is that how we're going to do that? I thought that's what you were kind of implying when you said you should Okay. So we're not just Okay. That that seems like a good approach. Yeah. We prepared prior so you guys get to see it in advance of this meeting and then you can tweak it if you want as a board and send it up to the full board for that approval.

Does that work for you? Sure. Okay, great. Any other items to discuss? All right, seeing none, next meeting, September 8th. We are in recess. Thank you.