Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

call the uh February 24th, 2026 planning board to order. Um as we get started, first thing is like to recognize guest Commissioner Cornet. Thank you for coming. Uh, next order of business would be the approval of the minutes from the previous January 27th. I'll make the motion to approve the January 27th, 2026 regular meeting minutes. Okay, we have a motion. Thank you. Second.

Second. All those in favor. Okay, next public comments. Um, let's see. First of all, we have is Jeff Lock. Uh, you have three minutes. If you could state your name, please at the podium. Yes, correct.

I'm here tonight speaking as a private individual uh and citizen of Huntersville. Um, I wanted to talk about the uh planned resoning uh at the 73 and 115 community that we're going to be talking about tonight. Um, there is a unique opportunity at this location for transit oriented development. Um, it is right along the proposed red line and there will be a red line station I believe in the neighboring community in Cornelius. Um, one of the goals of transit oriented development is to eliminate or to reduce car dependency through providing viable alternatives to driving. Um, we have some of that covered with the red line. Ideally, if people living in this community are going to work in Charlotte, they can commute back and forth that way. But it's also uh a unique opportunity for active transit. It is right along our proposed seam alignment. Uh the seam or formerly the Charlotte to Moresville Trail uh is a big regional uh connector. Charlotte has most of their system like 85 90% done. Huntersville's kind of holding it back. Um we are the important connection for the rest of North Meckllinmberg County and this new development is right along the proposed alignment. There's a plan, I believe, proposed by David Pete, uh, for making the greenway a little more centrally important in this community. Um, I wanted to personally support that. Um, having a greenway that is pleasant and and inviting that people want to be on, uh, is really important for getting people out there on these things, using them as transportation, using them for recreation. Greenways are the number one requested

amenity uh in in the town of Huntersville. Um this is a a major thing that would increase property values here, but also really just perform like local connectivity functions. Uh it's about two miles from this community to downtown Huntersville. Uh about uh I believe three miles to downtown Cornelius, four miles to downtown Davidson. Once this trail is there, this will be hopefully the primary way that people are going to get to and from these places without having to get in a car and add to the traffic here. Um, so I just wanted to emphasize the importance of having this connection, having it be a place that people want to be um, and making it a a central desirable feature that people will want to move to this development to be near. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, next Bob McCaulay, you will have three minutes as well. Thank you.

I'm speaking in regards to the uh and I'm sorry, could could you state your name?

McCauley. I'm speaking in regard to the Old Statesville Road mixeduse project. Uh I live at 109 Mount Holly Huntersville Road. Uh I own 107 Mount Holly Huntersville Road where it's where I grew up and also own 105 Mount Holly Hunterville Road in addition to a lot behind that. Um so I've lived on that property my entire life. Dearness Gardens and the uh 11 acres that are part of this resoning were actually my grandparents farm when I was growing up. I'm the property owner probably most impacted by this resoning since I live on and own five acres directly on the northern uh boundary of this property. Uh I went to the community meeting and also spoke at the public hearing. Although I know there are already a lot of apartments coming online in Huntersville, I understand the plan for higher density along 115 in the 2040 plan. It is disappointing that so much of the new development is rental property instead of home ownership. With that being said, I understand the three three and four-story apartment buildings, which are buildings A, B, and C along Highway 115. If you feel the need to do the resoning, I ask that the fourth apartment building, which is building D, be changed to two-story town houses instead of the threetory apartment building at the back end of the property where it's transitioning back into the neighborhood. It would fit better with the existing neighbors if it could be changed to a uh two-story town houses. Otherwise, me and my neighbors are going to be looking at a three-story apartment building staring right into our backyards. Um, what I'm proposing is exactly what was done at Discovery Place Kids where you built apartments along McGillad Road, but then as you transition back into the neighborhood, you change that to a two-story townous,

and I would like to see the project done the same way. Uh, the planning staff has also recommended that these be changed to two-story town houses. The change might also help provide the client with more open space for residents and help with the specimen tree say which they're having struggle meeting. The applicant is asking for a lot of exceptions to the reszoning. It is advertised as a mixeduse as currently submitted, but the plan is basically a commercial an apartment complex with very little commercial space. Also, has the traffic impact analysis being approved by the town's engineering staff and the North Carolina DOT? I'm very surprised that there's not a right turn lane going into this project. Thank you for consideration of my thoughts and concerns.

Thank you. And last, we have Beth Pel. And if you could state your name, please for the record.

Hi, my name is Beth Pal. I'm Bob's neighbor. I live um at 13500 Mount Holly Huntersville Road on 5 acres that will be behind this mixeduse project that wants to be reszoned. Um we moved to this property 35 years ago and we have done our best to steward it. Well, we have a 1 acre lake that we share with our neighbor. Um, through the decades of living there, we participated and worked to create and maintain our lakes's good water quality as it's part of the protected mountain island watershed which provides our drinking water. The High Street District development is also part of the projected Mountain Island wershed. And this water from this property will flow into our lake and then into Torrance Creek and onto Mcdow Creek and into the Mountain Island Lake. From studying this LI or low impact development ordinance online PowerPoint, I learned that one inch of rainfall on an acre of woods produces no runoff. And the same one inch of rainfall on one acre of asphalt will produce 27,000 gallons of runoff. This might explain why since the roundabout was completed, we've had our lakes's dam keep over topping when we just get an inch and a half of rain. So, it's impacting our lake already. My hope is that as a town we interpret the stringent measures as laid out in the Huntersville water quality design manual to the highest standards possible and that we all we also ask the question is this the ideal property for this type of development? Might a development of this density be better suited for a site that isn't part of a watershed that's protected as part as far as I can tell this west side of Old Statesville Road up to Gilead is the only part of this highdensity 2040 downtown development plan that's in the protected watershed.

My request is that you call on the experts and get good advisors and set the bar high for the sake of the watershed. And if anybody wants to walk back there, I'd be glad to lead a tour, just let me know. Thank you for serving our town and thank you for your consideration. Thank you. Okay, moving on in the agenda. Uh item 4, consider a recommendation on petition R2515 to reszone 11.17 acres located at 13501 Old Statesville Road for a mixeduse development. Mr. James.

All right. Good evening. Guess my Do I need to turn this? I'll just watch it up there. Um, so good evening. I'd like to present the uh reasonzoning case for R2515, Old Statesville Road mixed Use. Um, and before I do so, I'd like to enter my staff report into the record. [clears throat]

So R2515, what we have here, um, right south of the roundabout is the Dearness Gardens property. Uh, that's currently zoned highway commercial conditional district and then the three parcels south of that are uh, zoned neighborhood residential. The [clears throat] uh, petition request is to go neighborhood center conditional district for a mixeduse development. And on the screen you see the context map just south of the roundabout is the Dearness Gardens property with the proposed site plan within that boundary. There's a congregate housing uh living apartment to the south of that and then some larger lot um single family homes kind of surrounding it. [clears throat] And on the screen you see the site plan. Um, basically it's a mixeduse development, apartments, town homes to the rear. Um, and then on the front of the two buildings, uh, facing Highway 115, there are, uh, some commercial space. Um, currently there's proposed 5,000 square feet on building A, which is the northern building on Highway 115, and 3,000 square feet on building B below. Um the applicants have proposed a grid light network for um this mixeduse development. Um they've also proposed 10 attainable housing units and there are four modification requests. So going to those modification requests and the site plan review. Um, in this district, the town uh only allows um 70% um or 30% attached housing. This plan uh is requesting 100% attached housing. Um

you see on the site plan there's three uh actually four apartment buildings and then two town home buildings. Uh staff is recommending a higher percentage of town homes to get a better mix of housing. Um and that that would be um in that back northern western quadrant. We would be asking for more town homes. There' be less surface parking area in that area and it would give uh just a better mix overall of housing. Um the ordinance also requires 60% of the commercial ground floor on mixeduse buildings. U this application uh offers 17 and 21% for those two buildings that front highway 115. Staff is looking for a higher percentage of overall commercial space in those for a more usable type retail space. Um we as staff believe that area could accommodate um a higher percentage of of retail commercial space closer [clears throat] to the uh required 60%. There is a modification of the 30% tree save requirement. Uh this plan offers approximately 8%. Um staff is in favor of this modification request due to the uh development um they are doing and the request for more public streets and more um connections to the west of the property. Um most of the tree safe is in that northern part adjacent to the northern property lines and that's where the uh actual public street would go. Um so we are in favor of mitigation and that could be with tree bank fund or um adding trees on site.

[clears throat] There is also a request to encroach and build upon um some of the intermittent stream. Um as you see on the site plan that is the lighter uh pink area and red hatched areas not the blue hatched areas. That's perennial. Um there are some uh there is a need to cross some of that intermittent stream area and and develop part of that. Uh in the uh public hearing the applicants had proposed built upon area in the perennial area and through staff's um request uh the applicants have pulled out the development out of that back area. Again, that's the perennial area and that hatched blue. They've pulled all of their development encroached development out of that area. So, that is no longer a modification request. [clears throat] And then, um, one other update, since the public hearing, uh, staff had requested that all development come out of the adjacent, uh, buffer areas, the 30-foot required vegetated buffer. And from the plans, you will see that they have moved all development out of those 30-foot buffer areas. That's the green area in the west and the south of the site plan. On the screen, you see the architecture that they are proposing. This is the uh mixeduse building and the apartment building. The mixeduse buildings are on along the front of the development and the apartment buildings are uh interior of the request and then you've got the town homes and the clubhouse there on this screen. The architecture does meet staff's

expectations and the ordinance expectations for the ordinance. Um, this plan does support many items in the 2040 plan. Uh, staff just feels that the few items that are are missing outweigh the u the ones that it does and those would be the items of more commercial space for the mixeduse area and a higher mix of of housing. Um, since the public hearing, we did um give them credit for some of the environmental areas that they've been pulled out of. U the 2040 plan does talk about um staying out of watershed uh stream buffers and perennial buffers and the applicants did do that. Moving on to staff's recommendation. Um because of those two items, the the lack of uh close to 60% uh commercial space on mixeduse buildings and um being just overall too high of a um percentage of of apartment uh units and not enough uh mix housing and town housing. Uh staff at this time does not recommend approval. Uh we could be in favor of the project if they did offer those two items. So at this time we are not recommending approval. And if anyone has any questions, um I'm happy to answer those. High Street Development is here as well. They have a presentation. Um so whichever way you guys want to go with that. Excuse me. Do [clears throat] you want to start with questions for staff before the uh the uh petitioner presents?

Go ahead. [clears throat] So, for the things that um staff's having problems with the uh percent of detached and the uh commercial space, if building D were to be flipped to town homes, then would that fix the commercial first floor commercial space requirement of 60% or get it somewhere more in the range that staff could be comfortable with?

So, those are two separate items. the the apartment building D is the one in the west uh northwest section of the um development and um that right now because it doesn't scale back um into twotory. It's only two stories so it doesn't require commercial. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That one doesn't require the the the requirement for commercial is those two front buildings because that's a shop right shop front style building.

All right, let me try it another way then. So if that was to flip to town homes, would it then meet the detached requirement? Does Oops. Oh. If building D went away and it was filled with town homes, whatever the number is appropriate for that space,

would it then help qualify it for the percent detached required in a mixeduse setting? So, the the requirement for a mix of housing um it it still doesn't meet the So, the the ordinance allows 30% um detached and 70% attached. It would still be 100% attached, but what staff is looking for is a a more of a mix of housing. instead of just having uh apartments in an apartment style house, then you've got uh more of a two-story less dense town home in that back. So, it's still 100% um

Okay. Yeah. I forgot. Yeah. Town homes are attached. Okay. Okay. But you'd be more likely to to accept it if it were town homes rather than more apartments. Yeah. staff feels it it better meets the 2040 plan for and and that mixeduse node to give that u more mix of of housing styles and the let's see I guess the height of buildings A and B are four stories right correct

okay okay and [clears throat] can you tell us how the conversations have gone with getting more commercial space in there how what the what the uh objections are and and that kind of thing Um, I'll let I'll let the applicants speak to that. They've got, you know, they've got their market studies and um and those items. I don't want to kind of step on their toes there, but um they've been accommodating as far as um uh where we were at the start and where we are now. Um, and I think to begin with they were live work units and they are offering now um, just flatout commercial square footage but staff would like more assurance that you know those commercial spaces are a little deeper and could accommodate things like restaurants or cafes or coffee shops and not just say um, for instance like an architecture office or some some type of other commercial use.

Okay, thanks. I'll hold that for them then. Thank you. I'll go ahead Chris. So, I see the buffer to the west and the south. Why isn't there a buffer to the north where you actually have residents that are concerned about the neighboring property? Sure, that's a good question. Um so the the adjacent property to the north there's actually that right of way and that right ofway encompasses um so the town owns that that rightway. It would be it would be owned by the town. It would be a local street. So it's a right of way. You'd have your street trees in there. Mhm.

And I don't have the number off the top of my head but it's probably a 60 foot rightway. Local street give or take 60 foot rightway. So it's actually a a wider area. you probably don't have quite as much vegetation, but you do have uh street trees on both sides of that that street. Um so it wouldn't require a buffer unless it was actual development right on that that property line.

Is there a way to design and develop that a little bit differently so it's like more of an opaque instead of it being like a street like you guys want it to be with houses on both sides since it's somebody's backyard? Could you do you know move the sidewalk closer and put a row of trees there or something like that so it's more of a opaque kind of cut off to those people's backyards? Um that's something that you you could do with a condition. Yeah. Um the town when when lots are redeveloped, we kind of look for them to meet the current ordinance standards. Mhm.

And um one of the reasons we also want to lower density of of housing in the rear is so you don't have that fourstory building, right? Yeah. We feel like when you've got street trees on either side and once they get, you know, to mature growth, it could buffer a two twotory building. Um and it would mimic more of of what you've got uh out there currently, twotory instead of four. But you you can design it to, you know, add other vegetation. It wouldn't meet our street tree type of standard. It might over time

present kind of a a different look. Full evergreen on one side isn't a typical right look for local street. Mhm. And then the other question I had was on like tenant lease up on other neighboring properties. You know, everybody's saying more commercial, more commercial. Are we seeing in the other developments within, you know, a reasonable radius of here that they are able to lease 50 plus% of like a downstairs area or whatever. I don't have those leasing numbers. I think currently and and trends change all the time. Yeah,

I think currently it's it's taking a little longer to to lease commercial, but our goal is always to to look into the future and um you know it those trends will change again and what what we don't want to have is a whole area of town that doesn't have like these nodes of actual commercial space. Yeah. Yeah. So, we feel like this is a perfect space for um like a neighborhood restaurant or um coffee shop, something of that nature to fill that area. And uh staff just doesn't believe that uh 3,000 and 5,000 square feet for those would accommodate that type of space. Right. And I I think you said they were at 21% in one building, 17 in another.

Correct. And was there a recommendation from the town on what percentage you were looking for? We didn't have an exact number. The the requirement 60. Yeah. I think that we would be okay with 50 or somewhere along those lines. Okay. But, you know, 17 and 20 to 60 is is a big difference. We get a little closer then we'd be more accommodating for recommendations. Yeah. That's all I have for

Yeah. Yeah, just to follow on to what Chris um asked. So when the uh staff is looking at a downward deviation from that 60% requirement, what sort of factors go into supporting that downward deviation?

That's a good question. Um we we typically look at the ordinance in the 2040 plan. Um we don't we don't currently have leasing rates, but um the 2040 plan wasn't put together that long ago. And like I said, I know the trends for commercial are going down from what we hear. We're always looking for for future buildouts of what the 2040 plans asking and the ordinance as well. So, we just looked at the big difference between the 60 and the 20 and kind of did it that way. Thanks. Any other staff questions? Yes.

Yes. Thank you. I have one more question. Um so watershed um this is looks like a lot of water that's going to be going into a neighbor's what what is she considered a lake. What are we doing to mitigate that? Is is there anything in here that's being planted to help absorb that water or can you

So in in the town's ordinances and the county ordinance they have to treat and uh retain their own water. So that impervious percentage, let's say they went up to as high as 70%. I think that's allowed in that area for imperous surface. They have to um be able to retain that much water on site before it filters into the streams. Um so the rate the and I'm not an engineer, so um we have town engineers that will review this to our ordinance standards, but all the all of that impervious surface uh will need to be uh retained on site. And then uh we also have water quality requirements. So it will need need to be treated on site as well before it goes into those watershed areas. So they do have what's called SCM uh an SCM pond and they also have underground detention proposed on this plan. You see the uh the SCM that's a a dry U sand filter uh on that lower uh area of the Thank you. of the plan. That's their SCM. And they have some um some underground retention up at the parking lot. Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm going ask a I'm gonna follow up on a question there. I know I don't know if there's a condition, but there was a concern about the downstream pond. Um, as far as protection measures, um, it's probably more important, I guess, early on, but I know on, and I don't know if this comes during plan review with the engineering documents, but I have seen where they've had to go out and actually measure, you know, depths to see if there's any damage or any, you know, additional sediment that may pollute the pond, so to speak. And I don't know if that's been discussed, but I was just bringing it up because because that was uh that was asked in the public.

Um I I personally have not seen that on any of my reviews. Are you asking if if we'll do a study on the neighboring it's probably a good thing. It's probably good protection for the petitioner to do it, but we have seen where we've had to mon or where it's been monitored prior to construction to check the depths and you know then it's monitored during construction to see if excessive changes. Okay. I mean that's certainly a request that you know could be added as a condition to have we Brian have we had any of these type conditions in your time here

monitoring it happens especially near near the lake. check these things. Um, they do have some monitoring wells and those things around like Jesse said and of course you know this system is to designed as it's treated naturally as if the site's not developed. So it will act the same as it does today. Different circumstance with the roadway systems that gets developed a whole different way than what's being developed on these sites. Yeah, that's fine. And that was really more just from the initial grading rather than the per because the permanent solution you know right with with this again at the reszoning level that concepts we're checking make sure these ideas are going to work if it gets approved then you go to the actual full design that's where all the real Sure.

as you know that that's where the real engineering comes into play. Yeah. They'll look at this the storm water calculations and make sure that the add added impervious doesn't change the water course of adjacent parcels. Correct. That's a requirement that we do for anything in the wershed. So, anywhere in town. True. Yeah. Storm water anywhere in town. Thank you. Is there any other Michael? Go ahead.

Well, I think Chris brought this up early and that was with regards to the commercial space. It didn't appear and maybe I missed it that didn't appear to be a methodology that we actually use as a town that actually determines whether or not is 50 70 we kind of use judgment to some extent. Uh and in light of not having a methodology is there any information that can affirm that the way in which we're approaching is successful or not because worst thing we need to do is to require you know something that ultimately we've perhaps later determined that doesn't work at all. So, you know, it would be helpful to the to the board if we had some way of assessing whether or not that model uh could be tightly tuned in so that we know we make the decision is not just arbitrary.

Yeah, that that makes total sense. The the one difficulty we've had is when we've done some some commercial kind of market study is that those markets fluctuate so quickly. Um I mean just two three years ago we were getting commercial spaces leased pretty quickly and and those so those flux fluctuations change pretty rapidly. Um so it it's a good comment and um good idea to to understand those numbers a little better. But what we have to count on currently is the 60% uh requirement and the need for commercial in that area. just using just from some of my experiences in seeing other cities to do the same thing. Depending on the type of u type of development that it is and where it's located has a huge uh impact on whether or not it will be successful. So it's not just looking at the numbers of how commercial real estate is fairing. There's a question is how is it fairing in a given type of environment for the development. uh because those developments that are what I would kind of call on an island uh which doesn't have access to you know to the foot traffic or the traffic that is passing through via vehicle uh at a huge disadvantage. Uh and I would suggest probably what we're looking at here is one that you it's going to be hard to get people to go ride up in there so to speak uh without some draw. And the draw is you got to have enough of synergy or enough uh enough de enough enough commercial development in there that they got a reason. It's more than one uh you know laundry cleaner is always great, right? But who wants a cleaner next door to them, right?

Sure. So again, my my comment back is we need to fine-tune it so that we aren't just simply, you know, using arbitrary methodology to decide whether it's going to fit or not. That's my only point. Okay, we um one more [clears throat] back to the road to the north. So that's on a current rightway, I guess, and it looks like it just stubs out into another lot in, you know, off of Mount Holly Huntersville. Does that [clears throat] does that rightway continue or is is that is that it? Well, this would be a proposed right ofway. Oh, it it doesn't exist today.

It doesn't ex this would be all new um infrastructure. And there is a a plan for uh streets to the west, but those are just plans in case things do redevelop. And what this road that stubs to that western boundary would do, it would set it up so that we could connect in the future. What we didn't want to have was um a road stub that didn't go that direction and then if those western properties did develop in coming years uh we wouldn't be able to connect. So this this sets it up for a grid type network in the future.

I see. I see. I could see especially Miss Pel, I could see some concern she might have off of that, but I was just wondering why it just stubs there and doesn't turn directly into the property. But you answered my question. Thank you. You're welcome. Any other questions for staff before we move on? Marshall, just a real quick one. Um, so the affordable housing requirement, I think it's for 15 years. Is that is that correct? They are proposing for 15 years at 80 and 100% ADMI. Okay. Is so that 15-year requirement, is that something that's negotiated? Is something is that something that you because I think it's I've seen it different numbers on different projects,

right? And and we don't have a requirement. This is this is kind of where we go above and beyond in a reasonzoning. So, they're asking for a modification for this. What are they giving to go above and beyond? And that's one of theirs is uh the 10 attainable housing units. Um and we, you know, we as staff have been pushing that a lot lately. We're finding that the 15-year mark is is what we're able to get right now, but it's certainly something that, you know, could be asked for higher amount of years or in per perpetuity for the life of the development. Sure. Um, we're not seeing those yet. It's generally a 15-year mark. Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. Speaking of the housing units, um, if so, I'm seeing on here we're looking at up to a total of 248 total residential units. Um, is that including the building D being apartments currently in that count? Yes. Do we know what that would change to if building D were to move to town homes instead? the u the developers the applicants have have kind of crunched those numbers and I'm sure they have that for you. Okay, perfect.

And they'll have a presentation next and that's the reason I say I'm sure they do is we've asked for that step down in in density and I think through our conversations they've looked into viability of that. So Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. Um, let's move on to the uh petitioner. Sure.

There we go. You're welcome.

Thanks, Jesse. Good evening. My name is Bridget Grant. I'm a land use consultant with Morin Van Allen, and I'm pleased to be here tonight on behalf of High Street Residential District. Sorry, I just lost my presentation. Perfect. I think something that will sort of help us to walk through, we've been working on this development for a little bit of time and you can see we've gone through multiple iterations. Our first plan, Mr. Boyd, did not actually include a street to the north. That was something that staff asked for that right ofway in order to facilitate redevelopment of the parcels around us, which sort of speaks to the overall vision of this being a higher density area and meeting the future land use goals. So, in our first plan, we didn't have any affordable units. We were looking at up to 270 multif family units with no town homes. We did have some impacts to stream buffers. Uh we didn't have that parallel road to the north side of our site. We were looking at our urban open spaces and we had 15% of our tree. After meeting with staff and moving through things, you can see in our middle plan, we changed to eight affordable units and 6,000 square feet of commercial. And I I'll speak to where why we've been at a little bit of a standstill on those numbers. We adjusted to 259 multif family units. We still had some impacts the stream, but I think our our most the major pivot that we took was on our February 11th submitt. You can see that we've got the road to the northern side of the site. We have 10 affordable units, 8,000 square feet of commercial uses, 238 multif family units with 10 town homes. We've got those connections, enhanced open space, and our site includes 28% of the tree canopy saved. One of the reasons where we there's been some push back on the amount of

commercial that we're looking at is we've had a lot of conversations about how important it is for us to not compete with what's happening downtown and compete against the retail spaces. If we were to go up to 50% it would be adding an additional like 22,000 square feet of commercial which is essentially like adding another a grocery store to this site a small like a Sprouts or a smaller grocery store. It would also take up an additional 30 plus parking spaces. So, it really starts to change the character of the development overall and leans more towards a commercial development. What we wanted to do was have that right mix of residential units with retail at the ground floor level that had enough rooftops to support it and wouldn't necessarily compete with some of the other spaces and the vacancies that we know exist at this time. So, we thought we sort of hit that that magic sweet spot of being able to have that diversity and maintaining the type of density that you would anticipate seeing in your growth corridor. We really worked with staff and appreciate we we think with that 28% tree save, we've gotten to a really good place of pulling all of anything that's outside of the buffers and the sensitive areas that we could um and getting to that mix of units versus commercial space. We did also take building D and reduce it the length of it by 45 ft. That's one of the things that we were able to do to try to minimize the height of the the experience of the three-story building in that particular location. I think it's worth noting when you're looking at some of the projects and you're talking about proximity to single family residential, as Jesse mentioned, we've set up that street on the northern part of our site that contemplates redevelopment along that portion. And our building is 345 ft away from the closest single family home. So for people who think in terms of football, that's 115 yards. That's the way I was able to sort of get a visual on what that looks and feels like. So, we've got our public road right ofway in addition to streets, trees on both sides. And then there is

some existing mature tree canopy on the adjacent neighbors property that would not be impacted by our extension through this area. Um, we have our traffic engineer here who's happy to answer any questions about the traffic study. We've included some additional open space amenities and appreciate that we've been able to address all but two of staff's qu staff's last two outstanding issues and still think that despite not hitting those two issues, we're still fairly well aligned with the goals of the comp plan in terms of providing a mix of uses, a density that's appropriate for this area, ground floor active uses to really engage people on the street level. We think that 8,000 square feet is enough to provide opportunities for other retail type spaces, not just offices, but we can't necessarily overcommit. But with those spaces, there are definitely small restaurants and other uses that are in that 3 to 5,000 square foot range. Um, Jesse already described did a great job showing you some of the imagery that we created. This just demonstrates that we did our best to as working through this process address every comment that we came to with staff to the best of our ability. And at the end of the day, we're proud to say that we have a project that includes affordable housing that's consistent with the level of affordable housing that's been approved with the past few projects. We've got some infrastructure wins, job creation with construction, and then the opportunity for small business growth in this area. We've got proximity to public transportation alignment with the land use plan. We believe we're bringing forward a high quality mixeduse development that's got some thoughtful varied residential footprints as well as the ground floor uses. And we really view that commercial space as a great opportunity to create incubator space and small business opportunities. So with that, I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Questions for the petitioner? Good, Jim. Um, thank you for that presentation. So, my question is with the 8,000 square feet of commercial space, was an actual feasibility study performed or is that the number that you've settled on? So, I can ask Tom Bur with the development team to come and speak to this as well. Generally, when they're looking at it, they look at what vacancies that are in the area. They look at market feasibility, and they look at what lenders are willing to finance in terms of supporting construction of the building. So, they hit a tipping point on what they would essentially be able to provide. He left his notes.

Thank you. If you could state your name as well for the record. Yeah, I'm I'm Tom Burr uh with the petitioner. Um I don't know. You want to finish your point? No, I was gonna

Yeah. So what I would say is we we tried to look at the development holistically in terms of what this specific area could uh take on and and what we could affect from a a commercial feasibility study perspective. And a lot of that was informed by market participant feedback. So we're we're talking to retail and commercial brokers regularly about the amount of space. I think the feedback that we heard kind of consistently similar to to some of the comments and and questions during the the [clears throat] staff comment period, uh, you know, not necessarily having a large anchor tenant. You know, this isn't a a grocery anchored center type of retail critical mass, we've landed on this amount of space that we feel like is is leasable. And our goal here is to try to have an expedited path to meaningful tenency in those spaces. So, we're planning to deliver them in a warm vanilla shell type of condition versus a cold dark shell for easier move in, much more expedited conversations across a really wide range of small businesses. Uh, and we feel like that approach to Bridget's point, you know, achieves the objectives of this mixeduse node that's really kind of on the the fringe of downtown and less so to be competitive with those spaces that are currently vacant in downtown or [clears throat] may be coming online in more core downtown in the future.

Thank you. Sure. Other questions? Have you all thought about a way to not develop the furthest west piece of that corridor road temporarily just to provide some temporary buffer between the residents that you know are there? Now, I know there's a long-term plan for that to be street frontage frontage and probably more apartments built there, but is there some kind of plan?

Yeah. So, I think our our plan overall with the development, right, we're talking about overall disturbed area of less than 10 acres. We're we're planning to construct it at once, right, in a in a single phase. It would probably be pretty tough to remobilize when we start building that roadway connection, right? we're gonna want to finish it to all the way to the stub on that side. I understand the question. Just I'm thinking my mind almost goes back to the town. The town wants that grid system in and it's not time for it yet. And this might be a town question. Is there a way for them to deed that right away and us develop it later? So

the difficulty there is when the developer goes in and builds it and they're and they've got the permits for the buildings and their certificate of occupancies that are given out. We can't hold them to building that infrastructure later. I wouldn't want to I would want to hold the town to building that you know 700 feet or whatever that is right there. Okay. Once that grid we're ready for that grid system because I would say that we're not and that would be a capital improvement project. Correct. No, all buildings bus front public streets are open spaces. This would be the public street they have to face. Can't get a permit. Can't get a co without the street being present. Okay. So, and this is their offering to do do our part of the public infrastructure.

They can front of green space though. Yeah. But this is going to be a public street and you couldn't change it from a a green space to a That's a reduction in open space. So you be looking at modifications that for buildouts, [snorts] right? I understand your question. It makes it makes sense until you look at the We had similar questions. Yeah. I mean, it's just really our code that's holding us. If you go back to the downtown master plan, downtown transportation plan, it calls for a public street in this location. So they're they're here. They're willing to develop. This is when we get these things.

Yeah. And not to mention too, it'd be a capital improvement project for taxpayers to build that portion, right? Agreed. Yeah.

I think I'm still stuck on why that the commercial space seems really low to be at 8,000 square feet. and and saying that that's a public street. I guess commercial frontage could move along public street A as well. Turn the turn on the building and go the other direction. I just the just the way the commercial is shaped and load in load out and the fact that there could be like six lawyers offices there is I think that's a little bit I don't know a little disturbing for the commercial space there. like there's no requirements not to have I mean it'd be great if we could have food service and retail like for sure or something on that.

I think it doesn't necessarily have to be six 1000 square foot spaces. I think it was set up to be leasable and the idea when Tom's talking about the warm vanilla shell. It's incredibly daunting for small businesses, coffee shop owners to not only try to find a space but then have to go through the process of figuring out what it takes to upfit it to make it a viable space. And so we were trying to keep it right sized for good local small businesses. Do you want to add on to that? Say

yeah. No, I I I think it it actually the way that we're trying to think about this is to provide more flexibility for the use profile type than just this has to be X or it has to be Y. uh the way that the the ordinance reads and the code reads, it's a really wide range of uses that can go into commercial space more broadly. Um and so our intention and we've taken this approach on some other projects too uh in the past. And it it again it allows for a little bit more of an expedited path to having tenency there for some of the reasons that that Bridget mentioned. uh the intent is not for you know competing uses right with multiple offices of the same service type or customer-f facing business to be filling the space. What it's meant to do is provide an option that doesn't really exist in the market today for those small business users that is less daunting than a a large tenant improvement upfit and a really complicated retail lease that just takes adds time to the process and complexity to the process. uh that that this type of approach avoids and it actually allows for a wider range of uses uh in in terms of what could fill that space than saying, "Hey, this this square footage, this footprint has to be X or Y." Does that make sense?

And vibrant spaces are better for your leasing, too. Sure. Yeah. I mean, the the the thing that we're trying to avoid, right, is the commercial space as designed is we think the primary entry is going to be at at the entry A. They're labeled, the northern entry. That's the the full movement in and out. There'll be a left turn lane that [clears throat] we'll be constructing as part of the improvements off Old Statesville Road. Uh and so the last thing we want to do is have, you know, a bunch of vacant shell space at the ground floor, uh at the front door of the project, you know, in a place that is really kind of meant to be supportive of downtown for the 2040 plan. I'm going to go back. Yeah.

Go ahead. Um, I had asked a question earlier about building D and its conversion to town homes. I didn't see anything about that in the presentation. Um, is that being considered? If that is being considered, how many living units uh would be reduced there and how many town homes would that be converted into?

Yeah, I think sure, happy to to answer it. Um, I think in rough terms it it we're around 35 or so units in that building today. It's, as you can see on the plan, it's by far the the smallest building on the project now from a a resident multif family perspective because of essentially removing ourselves out of that 100 foot perennial buffer on the western boundary sort of shifted everything a little bit further to the east. Uh, and so we we lost some density just by way of of making that move, which we were happy to do and with a lot of collaboration with staff, too. Um, and so in that footprint, it'd probably be roughly 10 town homes or so. It basic basically be duplicative of what you're seeing in terms of the two-story buildings to the west of it. It's it's roughly the same area when you factor in the alley and drive aisle and things of that nature to be able to access that. And in terms of how the project then becomes, you know, where sort of the inflection point of it being viable, the amount of density that we're showing here, we think allows the development to be able to move forward from a viability perspective. And then, you know, if it were to shift to town homes, the the density starts to kind of go below a threshold where that viability starts to become more challenged.

Okay. Thank you. Sure. So, I mean, I was asking questions around that or I'm going to ask a question around that same line. So, you're saying you would not entertain switching that to two town homes to match what you have there? I I think we would have a hard time Okay. moving forward with with a viable project, right? And that's that's the last thing we want to do is is get something approved that that can't be constructed. What about a twostory that would kind of go down to 24 units instead of 10 units? Yeah, we could we could look at that. I I think it's not as maybe as simple of an answer because the site also has a good amount of topography overall too. So

I don't want to speak out of turn in in terms of before we had a chance to look at, you know, the engineering of of what that could be. Um but yeah, we can we can certainly study that. That's what I was getting ready to ask that same question, Chris, but I was also going to say I wonder if you could do it like a three story on the back side and two, you know, adjacent to the neighbor since it kind of drops off towards that ravine. Yeah. Again, I think I think we we'd have to study it a little further just to kind of understand the topographical difference, right? That's sort of what would be able to

drive that being feasible or not. Um, but we can we can certainly take a look at it. So, while we're on the building D topic, have you had any conversations with the adjacent land owners in terms of maybe a solution for a one-off basis, whether that be additional screening or things like that? I mean, have you approached those conversations? I know I know it's hard because it's a three-story building. You can only screen so high, but Sure. Yeah. I think I think the not to come back to an item that we've already talked about, we're a little bit limited with what can happen in in the public right of way um is kind of the constraining factor. Sure. What about something on that property owner's property? Sure. Yeah.

Has that has that been discussed or are you open to that concept at least those discussions? Yeah. Go ahead.

I was going to say like he's here like he can speak for himself, but essentially he's right. the right of way is sort of we've been looking at that as the limiting factor. We can't necessarily do something in the right of way and pass it on that the city doesn't want in their standard right of way. I don't think that precludes us at all from being able to have conversations about what we're able to do on the adjacent property owners. And to your point, I think sometimes it's a a little hard again taking topography into consideration. You know, it's would a six-foot privacy fence be helpful in this location or not. What things I think of we typically say that height is often softened by distance and existing tree canopy and we've got a meaningful distance between our building placement and the existing building and meaningful tree canopy there. But we're happy to entertain that conversation.

Thank you. Any other questions for you?

I'll make a few. Um it sounds like um we got a couple forces that are up against your viability numbers. I guess I'll test those a little bit. I mean the the percent of commercial space if you if you added more I think you'd say that's not viable. Now if we convert building D whatever it was to uh town homes you lose lose units and you lose some viability there. So, I mean, are we talking about points of margin here, or is this just um trying to protect some of the turnover in the in the units themselves? There seems like there'd be some some other ways we could find a middle ground here. I mean, if if if adding 22,000 square feet of commercial is too much, and maybe it is, maybe you finish adding out the the frontage on adding commercial space to the to the units that front Old Statesville Road, add another 8,000 or so, and then go back to building D and and really, I mean, we've beyond just the fact that we don't have any detached housing here that we require in in this this type of subdivision, um, knock some of the number of units off, step them away. Seems like without with if you took the units off, you'd require less parking. You [clears throat] could reconfigure that area to make the town home setting a little more natural and and use some of the uh property to the south. I guess that uh that that's up against the tree line there. Um, seems like there's some things you could do to to help us with the, you know, some of our requirements about blending the new with the with the existing. Um, step down in intensity, like was mentioned earlier, what we did with the the North State project where we took apartments into town houses into single family before they bled into into Greenfield Park, which is what these

people people's property are, is one in one of the oldest communities in in Hunter Huntersville. So that's kind of where we're at. We're asking for you to make a few more concessions on your viability number and and give us a little more commercial and a little less density.

Absolutely appreciate the feedback and brought this slide back up to reflect where we started on the project and where we've landed today. And there were absolutely impacts by increasing the street network from where we originally started that sort of changed the whole network of how everything laid out. and trying to get to a higher level of open space. And so there's been a good bit of of push and pull as we've been trying to make this work throughout the process. I think we've certainly we call it like moving the goalpost. We've certainly tried to move along and make as many adjustments as we can as we're going through this process. When we started this out, we were looking at two different zoning districts. When you're looking at your zoning districts, you have to pick which one is going to cause certain deviations. And so we landed on this one because we thought this got us the closest to aligning with the long range land use plan in terms of high density in this location. And the reason I pulled this other image up whenever I like to look at land use plans in their entirety, I try to look at it as the entire area, not just a specific parcel. And so it's not necessarily that you have to meet all of the goals of a development on one particular parcel, but are how are you achieving them in the area? So, I bring this up to show you that we've got our proposed mixeduse project site that's directly adjacent to an existing multif family structure for senior housing. There's another parcel to the south that people have been looking at and that's slated for a mix of single family and town homes by right in this particular area. And I think that shows you not just looking at our parcel as a standalone, but looking at how this area overall is part of an overall framework for growth and development. Anything? No, I I think that's helpful context and and we tried to look at things again, you know, holistically as sort of this larger area, if you want to go back to that same slide. um just being part of a a housing cluster where there's a mix of

housing opportunities today and in the future where you know again on less than 10 acres of disturbed area with the road network that actually makes up about 30% of that developed uh land the the rightway network that we've implemented uh or planning to implement. you know, it starts to become a little bit more limiting on in terms of, you know, how much land area you have to work with. And we tried to look at the surrounding context too and the mixeduse center designation and that's why we landed on the the NC zoning type in terms of the target because we felt like that the intent of that zoning district best aligned with the intent of what we were trying to to deliver here.

Okay. You you've pulled up this slide. This is your slide, not the towns, correct? And what I'm seeing here is people within walkable distance to your commercial properties. So what I see is potential for commercial square footage. Um, so the the push back of this isn't um there, you know, we don't we won't be able to fill these spaces. When you look at this slide, it's very clear that the people will be there. I'm I'm having a really hard time understanding the difference in that number when especially because you're aware that this is coming and you're aware that these homeowners are going to be coming. They're going to want to walk to your community just like they do in Burkedale and go to your stores, your restaurants, your commercial square footage. So that more of a comment than a question. Thank you. Just one more. Are your town homes for rent or sale?

The plan right now is for rent. To be honest, we haven't made the total decision yet, but again, trying to deliver the project all at one time. And we feel like it's a right. There's an opportunity for someone really likes the amenities at the community. They love the location. You know, needs in life change. they could stay on property and, you know, be in a unit that has more space and a bit of a different offering uh within the same community. So, we do like that diversification element as well. Thank you.

Other questions?

Thank you all for your time. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. Do we have a motion? I have a motion. In considering the proposed resoning amendment petition R25-15 Old Statesville Road mixed use, the planning board recommends denial. The plan is inconsistent with policy LU-6 because the commercial space percentage is too low and policy LU-7 and LU11, LU-11 because of the high percentage of apartments and attached housing. It is not reasonable and in the public interest to approve this resoning. I'll second. Okay, we have a motion and second.

Start the discussion. Go ahead with your motion. Yeah. Um, you know, I never come into these meetings fully with a madeup mind. But that last slide, it it just got me. I can't I I can't unsee that. Um, there are houses coming. There are people coming, the people are going to be there. I think if we miss this opportunity, then it's going to be a regret later. People want live, work, play. We've heard that over and over. I mean, that got pounded into our head with Burkedale. Um, this is not an opportunity that we shouldn't pass up.

Thank you.

I'll go. I I think they've done some very good things as far as making the changes like to the watershed with the perennial stream buffer and the vegetative buffer. Also think the urban open space. I know we didn't talk discuss that but that was very nicely added to the project. I think they definitely heard what the staff was saying and what the needs were from public hearing. Um but it still doesn't change that the rule is 60%. and we need 60% on commercial and we've already failed at that in other places in the town of Huntersville. So, um I think we've got a you know a rule is one of the rules that we have here and I think that's important. Um I think walkability is not going to happen if we don't allow retail on our street fronts. Um and I I love the idea we can walk around the town core and I agree. I had live, work, play written down many times as well because we are told that over and over and over again. So, um I think it could be a great project. I just think there's some things like building D to think about your neighbors and the commercial property needs to be addressed.

Thank you. Other comments? Go ahead, Lee.

Yeah, I'll keep it rolling with some of those same sentiments, I guess. So yeah, that the downtown area, this area is starved for commercial space and and we can show it. We can show that storefrontage in in Rosedale turns over quickly. We're getting a Smashburger down there now. We've learned uh even store frontage in the Food Line shopping center, bless its heart. Um we're getting an Ace Hardware is coming in there. So we are starved for commercial space. We don't have any really new commercial space downtown other than what's in Hullbrook One now. and uh all our old space is is full and and vibrant. So I I don't see the reasoning. And is there an equation where you could track these trends? No. Because it's also point in time is is is very hard to dial in. Like Jesse was saying, what's what's hot today is dead tomorrow. You you just got to plan. These buildings are going to be here for 40 or 50 years. So you can't really look at way things trend right now. You got to look out in the future how you want your downtown, and this is in downtown. how you want it to look and you're driving into into Hunterville before you get to the traffic circle and you're looking around to see what you got and if it's going to be a wall of apartments versus something in the in the bottom floor that interest you, a a restaurant, a coffee shop, whatever, I'd rather have that. So up the commercial space and then again the uh building D overlooking the the residence some of our oldest properties in Huntersville that needs to be tamped down so we can show that we are stepping down the intensity as we approach some of the some of the older homes in the area. So great project. It's just needs a couple tweaks and and we can support it.

Thank you.

Any other comments? Okay, take a vote. All those in favor of the or support the motion um recommending denial to the town board? Those opposed? Did you vote? Okay. So, that was unanimous and again it's a recommendation to the town board. Um, you know, hopefully some of those details can be worked out because it is a nice project. Moving on to 4B, consider a recommendation on petition R2516, request to reszone 44 acres at the northeast corner of Sanford Road and Old Statesville Road for commercial and multif family development. Mr. Priest,

good evening. Thank you. Yes. So, I'll enter the staff report into the record and begin a brief presentation for R216 Knox Crossing mixed use. Um, so, uh, the application is located here and I'll just try to be kind of more brief on the slides because some of this was discussed during the the public hearing. So, this is the northeast corner of Old Statesville Road and Highway 73, Sanford Road as shown in the hatched area. The application is to reszone from corporate business conditional district to uh transitoriented development residential conditional district and highway commercial uh conditional district. So site plan highlights the updated site plan is in the top right of the slide. Again um aspect of this plan that is unique. It is right to the south of the proposed transit stop, the commuter rail line. Um, so the application includes uh up to 82,000 square ft. That's the maximum per the condition of commercial and up to 486 total units, apartments and town homes uh for residential. And um it's not shown on the site plan here, but the if you look at the site plan in the upper right, uh the reasonzoning line from the TOD to the highway commercial is right there in the where the the the horizontal from the left to right or east to west street goes through. To the north is TODR to the south is highway commercial. Um and I can explain that a little bit better if I need to as we move on the slides. plan updates. Um just uh some brief updates on what's changed on the site plan since the public hearing. Um so if

you look at that um the roundabout a little bit to the west of it, one of those town homes, town home buildings was changed to a live work building. Uh staff was recommending a little bit more commercial in that area. So the applicants uh kindly switched that up to to try to get more mixed use in in the center of the area. So that was that was a good addition. Um a screen mural public art wall was placed in between that um um that that park to the north in between the town homes and the grocery parking to the south. So that was an addition as well uh that could be helpful in screening that parking lot. Then also a larger one there, the condition to include uh 5% attainable housing units was increased to 7.5%. Uh so that's between 31 and and and uh 37 actual units uh depending upon the final number there. Uh so those are big changes there. Modifications um to the ordinance uh through the conditional process are listed here. Uh there are several of them. I I won't go through all of them, but I'll be happy to answer any questions about them after the presentation. Staff is um supportive of most. Uh some we wanted to see a little bit more design uh in lie and u uh in thestead of some of the requirements that are shown and we can discuss those. So constraints um staff is going to kind of go through some some recommendations that we have and and things that we're recommending seeing in the design, but um we do acknowledge there are site design constraints with this site and they're listed out here. Um Seagull Street Extension, the north south road where the town home the the apartments front and going all the way down and

intersecting Highway 73. that is a thorough affair on the comprehensive transportation plan. Um so that basically has to be there that that can't move around, right? That's got to be where it needs to be. There are stream buffers on the plan as as uh described there in the the staff report. Highway 73 is a a super street design. Uh so access is limited and and left turn lanes are going to be limited. Uh Cat's rail bridge. So, we talked about the the commuter rail line to the north and the station to the north. Uh, the plan is to take that rideway on the west part of the map there and do a grade separated bridge that is going to basically cut off access to 115 on that side on the western side. So, can't have a public street go and connect all the way to 115 like you would normally uh desire to do. And then of course uh we'll have some discussion about the seam trail and was mentioned during the public comment section um going through this property as well. So um trying to put all these elements together uh like a puzzle um it can prove challenging and so staff acknowledges that and uh still working together on on uh trying to make the the final product work. Um so the site plan discussions uh on the top right um he I will say Heather Maloney is our transportation planner and she is here and can give a little bit of background if you have any questions about the seam trail study and uh where where we have gotten from where we were to where we are now and where we have the the actual map on the top right in regard to the the concept plan that our consultant has drawn to try to take uh uh this plan and and overlay the seam

trail in a way that's uh functional and usable and recommended by a couple of our committees, the Huntersville Greenway Committee and also the Seam Trail Advisory Committee which is functioning under the Metropolitan Planning Organization Crypto uh we call them that is recommending uh this layout. So essentially um um without going through the whole history looking at that top right map uh you see uh the seam trail coming from the very top and I don't know if I can I draw on this with my finger. Okay. Let's see if it works. No. Do I have to I'm sorry. Please be patient with me. This is my first time on the new I don't see a There we go. it appeared. That's it. Whoever did that, thank you. [laughter] So, uh yes, that's the seam trail orientation there. As uh you'll see it goes to Highway 73 and what's proposed now is the best way to do it because again, we we said two things. There's u a cat's facility going over the railroad, right? So Katz has informed staff that putting the greenway trail along that bridge would not be an option. It would not be feasible to do that. Um in regard to having an atgrade crossing where Seagull Street extension meets 73 that's very difficult with essentially a highway um having a a nice safe pedestrian path through there. So that's problematic. So what do we do? um the the the different routes were examined and the best route that was recommended was to go underneath 73. So if you look at the grades of Highway 73, again real briefly, 73 is mounded up and on each side it kind of comes down. So, it's somewhat ideal for punching through

a tunnel to be able to make through and put a pedestrian path similar to the tunnel that we put out on 77 uh near Highway 21 um near the the Bogeles and all that good stuff over there. Um so, that's the recommendation. So, that's really a recommendation that we're we're still working with the applicant on um in regard to the the recommendations we got from our committees and the seam trail committee about making this more of a linear park, making it a focal point of the development, really an amenity and and something that's highlighted through it. Still working on that as you'll see in the picture from the site plan. Uh currently the trail is kind of shoehorned a little bit, squeezed in between the parking lot and the gas station and is a little bit limited. We'd like to see it a little bit more natural, a little bit wider, green, and we have some slides on that to to show some examples of of exactly what staff is is referring to. Um the the aspects of the plan in regard to separating the north and the south, the north being to the south being highway commercial. Um we've been working with the applicant to try to blend the two characters of those different zoning districts better together. Right. If you if you look at the the actual plan, uh the north um has buildings that are very close to the street. The parking is all in the back. Um but on the highway commercial side, uh parking is somewhat predominant. There are automotive type uses, gas station, drive-thrus. Um so we're working at narrowing that down and and trying to get that a little bit uh more blended in. Um open space amenization. uh we we've gotten the slides from the applicant and we've seen a little bit more of what they're looking to do uh with the open space. So, we're looking at that. Um the pond amenization or screening as noted

here on the screen um a very uh nice intersection where you've got mixeduse buildings and perhaps some really nice plazas in between the buildings and the roundabouts. um and some commercial on the the other side, but then there's kind of a big hole on the other corner. So, what can we do with that so it doesn't detract from the other corners and amenitize it, screen it, um but in a in a way that's architectural perhaps that really adds to it rather than takes away. Um shopping center elevations, still looking for those and and raising that excellence in design in that way. Huntersville 2040 plan consistencies. Um, essentially the uses themselves, the intensity, this is kind of the place to put it. Long story short, if you're putting higher intensity, if you're putting mixed use, uh, you're at a section where you're at the intersection of two major thorough affairs, you're at the the the a section where a seam trail greenway is going through and you're immediately to the south of a commuter rail line. So the infrastructure would be there. Um and so the int density is is um something that staff recommends is hits the mark in our activity center. um where we're still struggling again is kind of um uh the design and just from a very big picture standpoint uh what I highlight here is um the urban design principles box and uh and policy LU7.1 in regard to having the urban design principles and it brings out the town of Huntersville uses a formbbased approach of mixed use and non-residential development that discourages largescale commercial strips and disconnected uses So that kind of goes back to again blending the two sections of the development a little bit better. Um they're not really disconnected uses but

they almost seem like two different developments, right? Um so you've got the very highway commercial suburban oriented to the south uh and then you've got the intense more apartment to the north. In contrast picture of Burkedale is there right? So instead of the activity, the intensity and the density being along 73, whereas Burkales, Burktales is interior where you have the mixeduse buildings, you have the commercial, you have large central o urban open space, that's where the intensity is, that's where the walkability is and where all the connection is. Proximity is walkability. So when you have all the commercial and everything on 73, it kind of takes away from that urban feel and that mixeduse capability, right? So staff's recommendation as per the staff report was to try to blend that a little bit more. You know, there's there's market demands that ideally where the grocery store goes, the the 45,000 square foot grocery store would further go interior to the site. There's market constraints, there's tenant constraints that we understand the applicant is working with as well that won't let that happen. So, with that in mind, there's there's other items that that staff is focusing in on opportunities for excellence in design. Um, we feel it's important to give examples of if we're saying we're recommending something, we're looking uh at examples to say this is what we're we're we're talking about. Um the number one the the linear park through the development accommodating the greenway. That's something that we feel it could be really an amenity for this development um and and having a larger green area. So that's something that we're going to I'll show a couple pictures on. But also um just to the north a little bit um in Cornelius and Davidson, they have some nice opportunities for mixeduse grocery stores. Uh where you see there's a

grocery store that's back up off the exit. the main highway and it's and it's perimetered it's it's almost hidden by twotory commercial and residential apartment buildings making a very walkable almost a main street in that area. So that's the type of development and the type of intensity that staff is looking for when we say automotive highway commercial suburban versus the urban. I think this is a good example of of the built environment that's a little bit different and shows itself to be a little bit different. And we listed some other opportunities there as well. And and uh we we like the the really unique and the bottom left is a is a gas station twotory in Texas. So uh there's opportunities to do really unique um innovative things and uh we're still working with the applicant to to make that happen. And just some other examples of of two-story commercials that are here in uh here in the Lake Norman area that are that are possibilities for the greenways. What do we mean when we say a linear park? Um had a couple examples here on the far left hand side. This is down near the Metropolitan um uh in Charlotte near the Little Sugar Creek Greenway. Uh you notice the the lighting, the wide path and the the wide u um um landscaping and green area uh in this very um urban setting. And you see both of those pictures, but then you also see in Atlanta and the belt line the same type of thing, very wide green area, very natural. Um and something like this would would would be very good in that situation. of course in the top right the artwork in the park-like setting right outside right in our downtown going into the downtown Huntersville Greenway. Um so that's something that we're still working with and that's an example of of what we think would be very good in this location. Um so staff supports the

intensification. Uh right, it's in a great location. It's where it needs to be. Um but we're we're looking at the design and the urban design concerns that we have. Uh staff doesn't recommend approval at this time. Um the applicant will come and probably discuss about the again kind of similar to the last one the market restraints and where that is and so staff understands that and if the board deems that this type of um the the highway commercial oriented design is appropriate that's fine but there's a list that we have that uh we think are minimums for for staff to get behind and recommend we feel strongly about. So that'll conclude the the presentation. I'll be happy to answer any questions. Just like the last presentation, the applicant has a PowerPoint. Would like to go over that with you, but uh however order you want to make, be happy to go through that.

Yeah. Hi. Hey. And just to add to that, um just I got a quick note from the applicant given the number of changes that that they have done since the staff report was submitted. They would ask that if it's in your perview that they would like to do their presentation prior to questions of staff because they believe they should be able to answer some of those. Um, it's up to you guys how you guys want to run the meeting. Just fine. Okay, great. [snorts]

There you go. Well, great. Thank you very much. I'm Susan Irvin with Irvin Law Group. Uh it's good to be here again. Second time I'm getting a little used to it. Um the new space and how big it is and how far away you are from the podium. Um but I I just want to do a quick introduction uh the location. I think Brad I want to thank Brad and Brian uh for the journey that we have taken. Uh we filed this application in November. Uh we are in our fourth submitt. Uh we've had several continuing meetings with staff, continuing to evolve this plan. Um you know, started out with some initial comments and as we've kind of fine-tuned the plan, we've gotten into more and more details. So, uh we really appreciate that a very thorough presentation. This first slide is really just to show you that um this is a key piece of the puzzle for the transit station. Um what is approved there now is a continuation of the industrial that you see to the um east. Uh but but to con to have the north south connector go through this property and have the seam trail go through the property as was earlier mentioned. Uh the importance of that um this type of development will um will provide that. Uh WRS is here. Kevin Rogers a representative. Uh WRS has uh 45 uh mixeduse and retail anchored centers

across the southeast. I presented some images of a project that they did in Gaithersburg, Maryland at the public hearing just to show the quality of the development which is extremely high uh for this company. Um, I do want to say that we're going to talk uh about some of the changes that we've made since the application. I'd like to hand it over to Dimmitri Bacas, the uh the planner for this project, the master planner, and uh really ask him to address uh the planning comments and we'd love to answer all questions um as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Susan. My name is Demetri Bachis. I'm with Metriccology. I'm the urban design and city planner for WRS on this project. I also want to thank uh Brian and Brad and staff. We've been working now I think not only have we submitted three or four times, we've also met in person three or four times to go over this plan, all the intricacies. I think Brian Brian Brad did a fantastic job describing to you the challenges. So, I'm not going to go over them um in detail at the moment, but they will come up in questions. But the key ones, the super streetet, the cat's rail line bridge, which is a giant concrete wall which basically blocks off the entirety of the western side of the the project and our topography. You can see in closeup all of our elevation differences are basically 80 feet from high to low and they're almost all there in the front where we have our main access. So these are important pieces. Brad did say that he described to you how we're zoning it and he was acc he was correct in doing so. This is actually a plan I think gives you a good detail of how that is going to be. We've taken that east west street with the highway commercial which is the preponderance of the the the one-third of the site to the south that faces the highway that's being built and the corner which is the most obstructed by the future cats rail line. And we put the residential up on the northern end which is also the closest to the transit stop putting everybody within walking distance who's going to live here within walking distance of that site. not just within walking distance, but a pleasurable walk and a very quick walk. We're talking less than five minutes, which is a pretty great a great statistic to show. The plan itself, as Brad explained, it's almost like a silicon chip. Every inch, every foot something is moved or jogged around has rippled effects throughout the entire project because of the way that the site uh the property itself is configured and the constraints and the challenges that were put on the site. We actually didn't think of them as challenges as much because their opportunities. The north south road that runs through the uh seam trail is

fantastic and I'm going to show you how we've accomplished um u incorporating that into the project which I think we've done a a very good job with and we have been making modifications since we've been speaking with staff to go over just some of the things that we have been doing since we started the application process. The plan as I said has changed hasn't changed significantly in terms of the disposition of sort of the layout because of the constraints that we spoke about. It's very difficult to move things around. For example, if you picture that grocery store in the bottom, that grocery store comes with it that that parking. So moving that north or east, we have wetlands areas that are part of the property that the core of engineers controls. Costs become increasingly prohibitive as you move into that. Moving to the north, you then move a lot of the residential that will have access to the station. That gets moved to the south, which is also the least amendable for residential because it's basically next to a highway at this point with a giant concrete wall for cats to the west. So really things settled as they're showing here. But as Brian and Brad have been saying and as as others in town have been describing to us, it's in the details which I think we're beginning to nail down quite well. the park areas to the north. Uh you'll notice that the pocket park and the park, we've actually made them to blend in with the development to the north so that the uh seam trail and the park that we're calling the green, which I'll go over in just a moment, actually incorporate and flip over into that project. So these two projects will seem seamless as you're walking through them or driving through them. They won't look like two different projects. I think that's very important both from a character point of view and amenitizing the sites for both the projects. the multif family buildings. We have repositioned those things. It may not look like a lot, but every inch, as I said, counts. We have moved them back and forth, trying to do several things simultaneously. We one, we want to open up a gap to get the pedestrian passage

east west, which you see there in that that arrow in the green line, to get all the people that live on the apartment side of the street to the east to be able to access all of the uh amenity spaces that we're providing. Again in less than 2 minutes in some instance this is very tightly planned moving those also we had to keep in mind we don't want to open up spaces such that you are actually was seeing the parking behind as you move through this system on the ground don't look at it from the sky because people don't fly over it like a bird and they're going to participate in it on the ground walking and as you walk through this you're not going to see parking just as in Burkdale you don't see the parking but it's a giant sea of parking with a with a shopping center without a roof in the middle of it right so this is the Same thing in reverse. The parking is all hidden from by the buildings that we placed and how we placed them. If you move your finger through there and walk through, you'll notice you're either in a park enclosed by buildings or in an urban street enclosed by buildings. We moved a rear lane. Uh we were told that the street was too long to the left there and not have any access for uh emergency vehicles and just for convenience. So we added a rear lane there and in doing that we had to keep again the distances between the buildings such that we could again complete the spaces and increase the size of the open space pocket park so that the theme trail could access into our site and head south. Ground floor retail um and the live work units were added to the roundabout to make that our town center and we'll go over that in detail in just a moment. We agreed and decided that the retention pond should be fully screened. So we're going to completely screen that. It will look like a park space with trees as you're looking at it from both the road, the apartments, and the roundabouts. It's going to be a beautiful sort of backdrop uh to all of that. The mural wall uh that Brad was talking about, we felt that expanding the street that is between there, by the way, can be closed off. It's designed with pavers so that when it's closed off for festivals and and special events, it looks like it's

part of the open space system. On the south side of that, we agreed it would be a good idea to go ahead and screen that with a mural wall, which we have done. So, we're putting a six foot wall that can have art along it, and it would be partially landscaped in places so it's not one giant long wall. The Carolina Seam Trail, we'll get into more detail in just a moment. I'm going to leave that for a moment uh so we have time for the questions as well. But we designed it. We took their path and the intent of the uh the sort of concept design that was handed to us. And then we said, "Okay, how do we make this real? How do we put this thing in here so that it stays in there forever and as this place gets redeveloped in the 10, 20 to 50 years that it will as the as the station gets developed, how do we incorporate that in the future to make it a fantastic trail?" I'm going to go over that with you uh shortly. I think we've accomplished that and you'll see why in just a moment. Uh the gas station uh we have designed it now that so that the face of it that is at the access point where the the tunnel will go under presents a corner that's not a service corner. It would be at some point we're going to be designing it in detail. It would have a corner just like the retail on the other side of the entry point which would have a plaza and some sort of interface with the trail which would be below here. Remember this will be depressed down at that point. Uh and the park size has been increased. the area where the uh tunnel would go under. We've increased the size to accommodate the dimensions that were given to us in the concept plan. The spaces we've always been talking about this how to create places around which people can live. We've got the lawn, the square, the park, the garden, and the plaza. You can see what those walking rate is. Everybody is within a short walk, less than five minute. Actually, this is probably three minute walks to all of these spaces. Uh Brad and Brian suggested that we narrate what that means. We'd shown them in just as names, but we said, "Okay, actually that's a good idea. How do you program them? What do you do with them?"

So we have the lawn, which is has a dog park in it, turf areas, elements, accessible water fountains, pathways, and connectivity, covered seating, and canopy screening. This is the more of the calm, quieter uh open space for the residents of the development. The square would be the active town center. It's actually the other anchor of the town square that Peak Development uh was approved for at the train station. Right. So, these two barbells are within like a six-minute walk of one another. So, this is a fantastic opportunity to to make those work. And this is going to be all of the same things that you see in the town center. Dining, outdoor seating, lighting, landscaping. The park is the neighborhood congregating room, sort of the the the front lawn of the park of the of the neighborhood. There'd be a playground in there. And that also is where we receive the seam trail. The seam trail is going to go through this property and it will always be in a park situation which is going to be unique. It's not going to be just the seam trail. It's a seam trail in a pocket park. It's the seam trail alongside a giant neighborhood park. It's a seam trail going into the town square. As we move south, the only place that the seam trail is not incorporated into an actual larger open space is just the gap between where it goes under and comes back out at grade to come to where our stream is. Remember, our stream is a wetland core wetland. So, that has to stay. We've incorporated a 25- ft area for that trail on the western side of that, but when you walk it, you're overlooking about an acre. the garden. We have community gardens that forms the buffer and the plaza which is the downtown component of it as the gateway into the site off of uh the highway. The architecture we've redeveloped our our plans for the elevations, the town homes, the live works, the retail and the apartments, the grocery store. We're working still working with staff and working with the

architects to incorporate the same color palette and um materials on that. And then we have the views uh that you would be looking at. View number one just above the roundabout looking down the main residential street. You see the multif family with the ground floor retail and the two plazas on either side. Two is a is a lower level I shot of that plaza. Uh highly active. It is the core. And this road that you see in front of you as I said can be closed for special events. It becomes part of the open space. the gap, the pedestrian plazas that we've got now, the pedestrian passages that we're incorporating through the site. I think that's about a 20 foot easement, 20 foot gap now that we've actually programmed with landscaping and seating and lighting. And then the commercial on the other side of the roundabout that would form the other half of the anchor. Remember, the other side of it would be the lake, which would be completely screened by trees. And this shot shows you the seam trail along the park that would be founded by the residential on both sides. It will be the town home. Future development, redevelopment. You can see, and we can get into this detail later, but how the block system works and why the thread trail is the way it is. And we'll explain that more as the questions come in.

Okay. Thank you. Um, this slide is a community benefits, not uh may not be something that is, you know, something the planning board looks at, but I did want to point out the attainable residential units and the economic benefits, the EV charging stations. Um, you know, I don't know, people will say affordable housing isn't a planning issue. I think it is. Um but uh but this just gives you kind of a summary of a lot of the benefits of this project. Um and then I did want to go through kind of the list of comments and as we've gone through these and we've worked on this, you know, timing wise, we submitted our revised plan uh by the agenda deadline, but we said at the public hearing that we would work on getting the perspectives together and um we did that. uh in time for the planning board and we wanted to go through all of these and have met with staff to discuss the various issues. Some were just miscommunications like the automotive uses limitation. We have no problem with that. Uh automotive uses isn't a defined term. So I thought that just meant anything you could drive through, but Brad and Brian said no, it's actually no drive-th through windows in restaurants. That's fine. no automotive re, you know, repair shops. I mean, nothing like that would be planned. Um, all of the comments that uh were made uh we agree with and we can nail through nail down all the details and all the minor comments between now and the vote. Um, one thing that we want to work on is is phasing plan uh and just having a better discussion with just getting down into

the details with uh planning about uh the design of the greenway. So, thank you so much. I mean, we came right down to the wire, but um happy to share any other information with you. We have some extra images in the appendix. Um but um open any questions you have. Thank you. Thank you. Um let's start with questions. Michael.

Yeah, this is probably getting a little bit into the wheats, but the topography of that particular site is extremely problematic and to me that translates into risk. If somebody can make us feel comfortable about the ability to actually make the transition from current topography to the new given its complexity, it would be very helpful. So go back to the you want to go back slide. Do we have the uh

Yeah. So what you can see the topography is quite extreme from Sam fur. It drops basically I won't say vert. It's it's a serious drop down to the um to the wetland area and and the stream and then it rises back up again uh severely but then kind of gradually peters off into a hilltop. So it's about an 80 foot difference. Now, what we're looking at obviously is we're going to have to grade and push everything to the north to a point in and around that stream bay. We can't we can't impact the wetland area per the core. So, we have to shoehorn around it and come in and then engage Sam Fur at grade at Sam Fur obviously working with the NC DOT as they're doing their super street design. But, that will all be level when you're driving down Sam Fur minus all the distractions that the DOT will put in. You will then see the buildings. They're not going to be down in a pit. They're not going to be way up high. Was that your question in general?

Well, I'm just trying to figure out how do you ensure that the risk impact is minimized, you know? So, I I know what you got to do. The real question is how do you do it without incurring a degree of risk that could disrupt the project? We have our engineer here, Kelly Wagner, if you want to come up and and answer that. The the short answer is we know how to do it and we make sure it's done that way. But if you want to get in more detail, maybe ask a different way. What project have you done that's like this one with that kind of topography? [clears throat] So I've been doing this for 25 something years. Looking for another site that you've done this on already.

Yeah. Um we've Oh, going through my memory banks on this. Um, I did a what we call Arnold uh Arnold Commons Triangle in Arnold, Missouri, more severe than this as far as topography uh goes. We had uh that particular site was I maybe 60 acres supported a Lowe's, a Deerberg grocery store, uh retail shop, several out parcels, um heavily [clears throat] commercial. We relocated a um a VFW which those guys were a hoot if you go and meet with a lot of old veterans that's been in combat and but um I would say that's probably the closest as far as kind of topography and challenges uh that we've had. Um we I've stared at this project for over a year um trying to figure out how to do it and what we're proposing can be done. Um, and if there's any particular like specific questions I Yeah, I I just want to make sure that as we give consideration to it that that's one of the factors. It's not just that it's a a level, you know, level site. This is one that, you know, if you guys get it right, it's fantastic. But if there's something that is a surprise and like, oops, we didn't anticipate that. That's a whole different thing because we got a project up there now. It's just sitting there empty.

Yes, sir. Kind of built out. Last thing we need is a partial development and realize that there's a problem with completion.

Yes, sir. I uh I completely understand. Um and you got to be able to see a plan and think in 3D. Uh, for sure. And so I think um, you know, we've graded this out a couple different ways. It uh, I think to what Susan and Dmitri were alluding to, you know, when you when you're standing there looking at the project with with this built, you're not going to see something in a hole. Uh, it is all going to be kind of co it's going to be a cohesive kind of project and working around those topography things. We've got retaining walls on the on the project to save and stay out of our environmental areas. Uh you know, we've got a limitation as far as what we can do with the wetland impacts and stream impacts. Uh we've worked through preliminarily all the hydro uh drainage, storm water calculations and have everything working uh right now. So um certainly there's a lot of detail and design that have to continue forward but in concept uh this is a doable project. Yes.

Thank you Chris. Yeah. So my mind kind of goes to one the timeline of your development with respect to the super street highway 73. I don't know if you've studied that at all. What is your timeline for opening up the grocery store and the apartments and then when is 73 going to be developed? Because you it's already very trafficy as it is and I didn't know if those would correlate at all. I don't know Kevin if you want to answer that question about timing on this project Kelly what is the what is the date that DOT has given us to commence their work on

sir okay so generally speaking nothing ever lines up perfectly right if they start next year um kind of build a clock here if you will um we've got we can talk about it for sure yeah it's certainly something that you know I think everybody would be happy to program. Yeah. And just um before the bridge I mean it's going to be a while before the bridge goes right.

I mean they're they're pointing essentially their loading area and and that kind of stuff toward that area. So there there would be a screening and buffering of landscaping in that area to to make sure all that's screened. Um, now separate of that and making kind of like a corner structure and, you know, trying to make it kind of like an urban corner and make it not look like there's a cat's bridge that's unsightly, right? You know, that that's a that's an additional discussion, but one could be had. Okay. Thanks. I have a question on

the sort of the southwest corner. sort of maybe explain some of the challenges you all had with maybe keeping the retail connected so to speak. Um you know we have the grocery store and then you know there's some gaps or spaces to to some of the others uh as opposed to some of the slides that were shown where like you know the grocery store may been attached to some accessory type Oh gotcha buildings like he's asking you know if you did where you had the grocery anchor and attached shops. You know why you can't do that here? Yep. Make it.

It's not an applesto apples comparison. The other grocery store locations that were shown with this grocery store location, you know, that that's that's an additional discuss shoehorned in in this particular site for a number of reasons. topographically the u the the um wetlands that are there and how we want to be able to make sure that we are accessing and providing the biggest oomph for our for our buck with the residential as close as we can get it to the uh to the train stop which is just off this off this site. So as we were saying earlier if you envision that that grocery store footprint and its parking as one package those two things move together and they can they can move slightly

uh off center with one another, but they always are attached at the hip.

So, moving that anywhere else in that space, you will see it will all it will it will move everything else around it to create the space for it. And in that movement, you're moving into areas that are the constraints that we have based on topography and how we need to make sure that we can financially do it correctly. We get into the wetlands issue with the visibility and the issues. The north shoe is a mandate, right? So that's fixed. It's not going to be able to move that much. So really once we started looking at this, showed it to potential grocery store users and many have looked at this and there's many on the line right now that are looking to go there. All of them said this is the only place we can put this to make this work. If that north south street had been an actual through street, which it no longer is because the DOT is making no signal at that intersection, it's not the sort of piece of infrastructure that was envisioned by the town to be a network piece of infrastructure. The DOT has made that impossible.

So that street is no longer a major street. There's not enough traffic on there to put a grocery store.

So all of these combinations of factors come into play when we look at where is the best place for the store. Now that would actually work economically actually have an anchor that we can put an antenna to it while also providing the best possible location for open spaces and residential on the site that don't then also impact the ability to grade it correctly and protect the so that's wetlands a multiple phase thing and one other question about that and leaving the site say there's many to go there would you said this is the only place we can turn right through the intersection.

Is that north south street an actual through street which is no longer is making no signal at that intersection. It's not the sort of piece of infrastructure that was envisioned by the town be a network piece of infrastructure has made that impossible. So that street is no longer a major street. There's not enough traffic on there to put a grocery store. It will move everything. all these combinations.

Going to what you said, I think the um development to the north, if I'm remembering correctly, had like option ABC. Like I'm sure you've developed uh and it would probably be a lot of work, but if you could see, hey, this is what it looks like with the grocery store to the back, the residents to the front, and this is what it's causing, right? You've got, you know, dead space here that you can't really use. And if you put residents here, you got a longer walk there, plus the noise to the street. I feel like what Brad is asking is have we vetted all those other options and you know a visual for those when you present next time if there's another presentation might be good right and and just kind of look at A and C and why this is the best one cuz I kind of see what you're saying and my next question was really for Brad. I mean, you wanted more of a antiquity feel or something like that, right? Where you come in and there's stores on both sides and the grocery stores in the back, but then you're pushing like apartments further away from the stop and closer to 73 and closer to this ugly wall. So, I guess what was what was your thought process on where the grocery store should be located?

So, ultimately, yes, the the first location would probably be here. It's not working for me. It's like right here the res to the norththeast and this is what it's causing right you got dead space here that you can't really use sorry put residents here you got a longer walk down the street I feel like what Brad is asking is have we vetted all those other options and a visual for those when you present next

either one either parking building building parking see why this is the best place to And the next question was really for Brad or something like that, right? Where you come in stores on both sides back but then pushing like apartments away from the stock and closer to the biggest item is closer to there. So I guess what was your emphasis here? So ultimately

as far as the the first location one element we've talked about is not working for me grocery parking goes and shifts down towards 73 and a building is more here maybe a mixeduse building apartment building or what have you and then it truly starts blending in the center and activating space. However, we understand that the grocery has certain needs and certain demands and we're talking about that needs to have a gas station needs to have parking immediately in the front needs to have the drive-thru. So there's certain elements that stop from the point of

view but those are the types of moves that we have and I guess that's why I was kind of going to talk about those moves and why you think those are kind of the biggest [laughter] it's not necessary but having

I hear you as far the the first location. One specific element we talked about is the grocery store. No gas station goes away. Parking goes shifts down towards 73 and a building is more here maybe a mixeduse building and then it truly starts blending in the center. However, we understand the grocery has certain needs and certain demands and when you were talking about that needs to have a gas station to have parking immediately in the front drive. there certain elements from those and I guess that's why we're kind of going to talk about those moves and why you think so everybody can kind of think that I think the biggest [laughter]

it's not necessary I hear as far as First location parking goes shift down toward 73 and then it did you consider um those little small buildings like Burkeell has on the green I mean that yeah those little because I

hear what everybody's saying, but this that would maybe give it that same, you know, retail component without the big huge building that requires a whole bunch of extra parking.

So, that's a great idea in a different setting. Again, the apples to apples comparison. So, right here, what we were thinking is that's why that in our thought process was how do we activate that? We can't activate it fulltime all the time because those jewel boxes are sitting in the med in a lance in a median that is surrounded by other uses. So that's a it's almost like an airport terminal. The little jewel boxes in the building are there because there's a lot of people walking around. We don't have that here. But we do have the opportunity to close off that street. You'll see it's a brown color. It's brown because we're indicating pavers. But what happens when that street closes? And that street can totally be closed off in this whole design function. So special events means that that street closes the park to the north, the open space, the creek and the plazas to the east and that stretch of road between the parking lot and the park all get integrated into one thing and you can have for example food trucks

and vendors and users pop in there for those special events and then when the event is gone it becomes a street again and a great idea. So we activate it that way in the apples to get exactly what you're talking right here. What we were thinking is that's why that in our thought process was [clears throat] how do we activate that? You can't activate it full time all the time because those jewel boxes are sitting in a in a median that is surrounded by shopping center. It's almost like an airport terminal box in the building because there's a lot of close it off. We don't have that here but we do have the opportunity to close off that street. You'll see it's a brown color because we're indicating pavers.

What happens when that street closes and that street can totally be closed off this whole parking lot. All right. So, special events means that that street closes, the park to the north, the open space, creek and the plazas to the east and that stretch, the road between the parking lot and the park all get integrated into one thing and you can have for example food trucks and vendors and users pop in there for those special events and then when the event is gone, it becomes a street again. Great idea. So we activate it that way to get exactly what you're talking because those jewel ide

it's almost like an airport between those two building because there's a lot and then close it off. We don't have that here, but we do have the opportunity to close. Yeah, maybe I could hear from staff a little bit. So, now that we've kind of gone through this and said, you know, we're trying to address the concerns. I'm looking at recommending, but if it were to be approved, there's a laundry list of items. So based on what you've heard and how this has evolved, is there I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of these items here and and make sense of it because ultimately we're going to have to make a decision here. So it's it's just a little kind of

Can you walk me through it? In terms of what you've heard so far and like what maybe these items are are not addressed in your activities. I saw that they had the slide that kind of talked about. Yeah. So I I think I mean that I think my first comment would be

we're we're seeing this for the first time today as well from in the PowerPoint presentation. So I I think there's a little bit more work to do in regard to some of the design and putting pen to paper and putting conditions on the plan to make these live and make them enforceable and make them, you know, for perpetuity, right? Um I think we're we're still curious about the the the focal point in the park light greenway and where the room for the that is going to come into play and how that's going to operate. um because we're still not at that 50ft width from the seam trail advisory committee and their recommendation. So where that's going to come from, how is that designed, what does that look like? Uh I think that's the the main hangup with with staff right now. We because again we're talking about the the grocery store needs this and there's there's limitations on what they're willing to change and not change. So the highway commercial orientation of the development, I think we're we're willing to give on something like that. If we can really make it amenity and a linear park and hang on to the greenway through the development in this shape. So I think that's where we want to put pen to paper a little bit too to make sure that works and some of those pictures we showed that transpires right in perpetuity, right? Um, I think we're we're still curious about the the the focal point.

Stay up there, Brad. I got a few for you. Where the room for the infrastructure is going to come into play and how the question was already asked about the timing of the Samur when this project would come out. So, let's go the other way. um their recommendation north from Raymond longrange plan to get that

I think that's the the main hang from two lanes to because again we're talking about come up on the state the grocery store needs answer my question with the headshake and the same thing for 115 north of the same plan to park to the green and then and I already know the answer to this one so be careful. I think that's where we want. I got at least 10 years to make sure that works.

Okay. Yeah, 10 years plus. And and by the way, Cat I've checked Cat's website tonight. The timeline for the red line is probably 15 years and that's their estimate. So yeah, stay up there. I got a few um the uh the question I have the answer for is ask what's the distance distance from the entrance of this when this project to the rail station that is 115 north from Raymond to the the actual station itself yeah we're basing this on tor right so trans

the the property line itself I want to say no entrance north of where the station is in relation to this property. I know where the station is. I'm asking that if if if one were want to walk to the station from this property, right? Yeah. What's the point of this property and then and already know the answer down here at the bottom, right? So, it's a 10-minute walk to get up to that station from down there. Okay. Yeah. 10 years. It's a 5minute walk. It's probably slightly more than 5 minute walk from the roundabout to the station. 15 years. The rest of the site is 5 minutes or less.

Okay. I'm asking that question because they actually moved the rail station on us, right? It wasn't question. I have the answer somewhere. What's the distance from the other development project right now? From the entrance, it's a little over a mile if you got in the car and had to go up there. You probably will cuz nobody around. And yeah, if you went out the back of the site, which uh correct I bike so I can I can do this. If you went at the back of the site, which isn't developed yet, I mean, yeah, you could probably get up there entrance in a half a mile or so, but it's it's not the property. I know where the station is. I'm asking

I see the TIA is station no updates on TIA or what it might do you have an on, right? So, it's a 10-minute walk to get up that station from down there. Okay. Yeah, 10 years. It's a 5minute walk. It's probably the TIA 5inut walk from the roundabout. We had to rescope it. We did various iterations of this plan. We did the initial scoping that was approved on a slightly different plan and through kind of that initial review

and how the plan revolved, we had to rescope it. So all those documents has been sent uh to DOT waiting for them to approve. And what that does, it just establishes the framework for the full model. I mean, yeah, you could probably Yeah. Yeah. I get in half a mile, [clears throat] but it's curious because you've got I don't know what the unit numbers in here, 486, 420, but um I see the TI got only one entry point exit, right? Everything else.

There's Well, in total totality, there's four. Uh we've got the station south project to the north of us. We've got Jamesburg drive that goes to the indust through the industrial park to the east. We've got our east driveway we'll call it and then we've got a right in right out uh between the gas station and the grocery store and through kind of that initial review. All right. And then I get why the grocery butt something up against an ugly wall and a bridge coming across. The best thing to do, the best of these things to put up there is the back of the grocery store. So I get that. But

and I've heard comparisons to Burkeale, which that ship sale, we're not going to be under B. But when I looked at this, I compared it real quickly to North Village. That's with all the commercial is on the front side, right? But um I see the got only one point then the wraparound developing and the actual the unit counts pretty similar to north too station south project to the north of us. It's the one James drive to the through the industrial park. We got the public drive public. So isn't that the better comparison right?

I mean I I love the design. gas station. I mean, I'm not familiar enough with that one honestly to make a comparison. I'm sorry. That's okay. That's That's right. It was kind of out of town. It's not dissimilar. I think Yeah, Brian. Yeah. Just hearing you say you want to push commercial up in there. We're not trying to current example of where you can see this. So, someone put that image in their head. It would be like a drive. I mean, you're right. The the grocery store is more retracted off of 73 and then you've got, you know, out parcels on the front. There's that situation.

Gas station is the first thing you get to, but all the commercials right there. And then we've gone and improved something called North Creek Village which a wraparound for it which was 90 town 36 apartments and then then North Creek Soloulless or whatever was another complex wrap around another wrapound down in Black Farms Road in that creek. So that was great. Thanks. I just want to test I mean I'm not familiar enough with that one honestly to to make a comparison. I'm sorry. Who else? Questions for it's not dissimilar. I think Brian worked with that project.

Yeah. Just hearing you say you want so I've been trying to keep track staff's report and everything that's been addressed. I haven't heard anything about the grocery store is more retracted off 73. you got, you know, out parcels on the front, first thing you get to all the commercials right there, then we've gone and improved.

Yes, ma'am. So, the the tree mitigation um they're going to be required to have to have a mitigation, a request for a modification to allow to mitigate over the 50%. I we just don't know exactly what the number is because again some of the the trees that are on the tree safe plan that are called to be saved um the drip lines being disturbed so some of them can't be counted so we just got to update that number. Um so that that's a little bit outstanding but it it's safe to to say that mitigation would be needed and then a modification to the ordinance requirement would be

to have a larger mitigation and everything that's been addressed I haven't heard anything, but we could include that as a staff comment. You're right. [clears throat] That's that's in the staff comments and that's that's on the official review for the plan that is being worked on that situation. First thing you get to Yes, ma'am. So, the the tree mitigation um they're going to be required to have to have a a mitigation and a request for a modification to allow to mitigate over the 50%.

Right. I we just don't know exactly what the number is because again some of the the trees are 25 drip lines being disturbed. So, some of them can't be counted. The planning board recommends approval based on the plan. That's a little bit outstanding. It's safe to to say that mitigation would be a modific because it'll bring needed amenities.

That's that's in the staff comments and that's that's on the official transit line for the plan that worked out. In addition, all staff's notes be included. Yes, ma'am. Will that cover?

They're going to be required to have to have a mitigation and a request for a modification to allow mitigation. There's several modifications, but I think you're also talking about the staff report recommendations. Is that correct? Number be negotiated, continue considering prior to town. So yes, for both parts of that, you you could make a motion that all modifications recommend all modifications be approved uh and then all staff recommendations be accommodated. I don't know if I want to go that far.

I don't want to hold the applicant to all recommendations. that as I mean that's why it's amenities that's staff comments and that's that's on the official transit line for the plan that in addition all staff's notes continue to work to resolve outstanding issues no that work want me to say it again so there's several modifications but I think you're also talking about the staff recommendation. Is that correct?

I know that you're saying that there's going to have to be a more defined modification request for both parts of that. make a motion that all modifications recommendations.

Under [clears throat] discussion still are the swim buffers and what what the mitigation is for the swim buffer block length, the pedestrian corridor going through in lie of um the block length to shorten it. Um the building design for um uh the modification for drive-thru and not having the buildings up on the build to line. So, um that's still and then tree save modification, tree safe mitigation. I think those are the ones that are probably um still outstanding. And then I'd say the commercial mixed use because staff still has to look at the elevations.

You want me to say it again? Okay. So, with all of it, you don't need to list them out separately. Okay. I know that you're saying that there's going to have to be say what you've already as far as the policies and then as far as the direction modifications just direct um under discussion still are the swim buffers and what what the mitigation is for the swim buffer block length pedestrian corridor going through in the block length to shorten it to what you just said. um you could incorporate what I

building design for um uh the modification for drive-thru and not having the buildings up on the build to line and then do so um that's still and then tree save modification so your motion I think those are the ones that are probably you listed out policies and then I would say the commercial mixed use staff still has to look as well my reasonable statement to that the developer can go to work with staff to address the issues of the modification. Hand all outstanding staff comments and all outstanding staff comments.

And then as far as the direction modifications just direct um under discussion still are the swim buffers and what the mitigation is buffer blocked. So we have a motion. Do we have a second going through in the discussion?

Yeah, I'm voting for approval. Seems like every um issue that has been brought to staff has been worked through diligently and so you're continuing to get us to a point where we want to be and looking at the elevations and the drawings that I'm seeing plan that I'd like to see in Huntersville. do a reasonable statement as well. My reasonable statement?

Yeah, same thing. I mean, I think it it looks like a great plan. Uh and it seems like you're willing to work with staff, which uh is always good. Um you know, it seems like some thoughts been put in even though, you know, we have some uh you know, differing opinions on maybe the grocery store location, some stuff like that. Seems like a lot of thoughts been put into layout and public use, which I really like. and you always like incorporation of of the trail, especially one as as big and as important as this. So, I like the plan and I just hope we get a uh a red light.

Yeah, I'm voting for approval. I am going to vote for this, but I also just want to put my two cents in and say that the gas station could be moved so that the retail is closer to where the residents will be by separating it out. You're doing a disservice to that retail and the community as a whole. Same thing. I mean, I think it looks like a great gas station. It seems like you're retail right there by your anchor grocery store. Um, you know, it seems like some thoughts been put in, even though, you know, we have some, uh, you know, differing opinions on maybe the grocery store location, some stuff like that. Seems like

I can't support the motion. There's there's too many balls in the air here. This feels like we're just punting the thing. I'd much rather put a substitute motion in to defer this to give Brad a chance to really do his job and go back and look at the modifications and come back to us and let us make a informed decision on on all the aspects. I mean, it is a great plan. It I heard it seems like a great plan a lot. I'd like to have us all have the assurance that it is a great plan and without having planning staff's buy in retail is closer to where the res by separating it out you're doing a disservice to that retail and

Brian were you waving your hand the community as a whole one thing lead to that the applicant has asked that they not be delayed due to some contractual obligations so deferral would not be their preference I know that you asked for that potential for a substitute motion, but they would ask to just continue on through the process. I understand the motion. There's there's too many balls in the air here. This feels like we're just punting the thing. I'd much raing everything as it is and knowing that we're sitting here on does that and come back feel good to y'all make a informed decision?

How it always feels to me [laughter] approval feels good I guess. Uh what is the strength of conviction of these modifications? It sounds like you have a great relationship already planning staff's buy in. Is there confidence that these can be worked through? to where the res.

So, I mean, I I think there's confidence that we we can work through some of them. Again, the the greenway going through and is there room? I think that's still a question in my mind, probably the biggest one and what that's going to look like. Um, so we've had discussions before and the site plan that's come is the site plan before you. So, um, if I'm being honest, I I think there's just some restrictions that the applicant is under based on how much room they have, based on what the the the tenants are asking,

and I think that's really limiting them. I think they they want to make some of the changes staff is making, but some they're just they're hand tied. Um, so I think some of the things can certainly been worked out, some may not. It always honestly, [laughter] so I I think that's the reality of of where we are right now. modifications, but we'll be happy to work with it and see where we are as we get to the town board. That's the reality of it too. We've got an extra month and a half we can to get that or try to come up with that again the the greenway going through and is there a question in my mind probably the biggest one and what that's going to look like

things that happen. We we've had discussions before and the site plan that's come is the site plan before you come to the um if I'm being honest I think there's just some restrictions that the applicant is under based on how much room they have based on what the the tenants are asking and I think that's really limiting them. I think they want to make some of the changes staff is making some hand. So I think some of the things can certainly been worked out. Some may not honestly.

So I I think that's the reality of where we are right now. But we'll be happy to work with it and see where where we are as we get to the town. We got a lot of good information. No denying that. But the staff had digested that. Somehow we've digested better and faster than the staff has. So with that, I'm sorry. I just It's just more of a timing issue. I 100% like the development, but I think from a timing standpoint, the staff ought to have more of a voice to weigh in to say that we're doing the right thing before we press the button. I understand there's some time between us and you know the commissioners get but nevertheless it just doesn't quite feel like we're working

based on how much room they have based on what the I really feel on the fence on this one it's a very prominent location there's still there's still a lot of questions I do worry that the steam trail is not being embraced I guess with that and um

I think and just the connections with the retail here, the grocery store here, the retail. I see cars everywhere. The walkability I don't feel like walkability is on the project. And the whole point of to having a red line station is you would walk there. I know you'd have the same trail there and it would all work. I do feel like there's still a lot of questions and and [clears throat] what I wrote down when everybody was discussing is I don't know how we can push this board if it was just like it was. It is today to us seems hard to push that like they have to make a decision on it just doesn't quite feel like you're working in sync with based on how much room they have.

Go at it one more time. I really feel on the fence on this one. Again, I just think we got to be careful. This is this is not something here today gone tomorrow. I mean, this is expound on that. I guess it kind of degrades our as a planning board too saying you're going to do whatever you want and it really doesn't matter what the planning board said barely what the staff said now because this we're pushing this thing through. So I think we need to be more careful with that. Let me take you on a a rail railroad ride up um up through Huntersville. So

we've got um our first station down at Brighton. I think they're going to call it call station. There's a thousand parks down there already. you get to um downtown, we've got uh 650 between Vermillion Village, uh Hullbrook, Hullbrook 2, and whatever else is going on. And then we've got uh what what station that this supports already at,300 multif family units station south Cwell station Crawwell crawls in

and I'm counting north part apartments because there walk too. So All that to say, this stuff's here and and most of it actually isn't here yet. We've just approved it and we have this vision of what it's going to look like and we've got a vision of a rail that a lot of us think is a light rail and it's not a railroad. Most of us never step on them. I guarantee it's going to be 12 trips a day and it's going to be that. Let me take you on a rail railroad between I guess Raleigh and Charlotte up and down. So it's we've got our first station. I think our our our vision of what this what is going to look like is a little thousand apartments down.

I do like the project. It looks like it's well thought out design of it. It is. But I just think we need to make sure it gets full vetting because it's not some project. This is a major intersection of Huntersville and it's going to be a major this supports already at 1300. the thoughts other comments before we take a vote station southwell station cross and I'm counting north part park apartments because they walk too so all that to say this stuff's here and and most of it actually didn't hear yet we've just approved it and we have this vision of what is we've got a vision of a rail that a lot of us think is a light rail it's not a rail

all those in favor most of us never step on guaranteed things are going to be 12 trips a day It's going to be with that. Let me take you on a rail railroad between I guess Raleigh and Charlotte up and down. So, we've got our first station. I think our our vision of what this camera is going to look like a little thousand. I do like the project out the design of it. It is, but I just think we need to make sure it's full vetting because it's not some project. This is a major intersection of Huntersville and it's going to be a major support already at