Planning Board - Regular Meeting

on her voucher. They still haven't They don't know. They don't know. Okay. We're just approving it so that when they're ready, they can just pay her. Yeah. [clears throat]

Okay. Next on our referrals, I'd like to make a motion that we add the special use application for 34 Island Park Circle about a home occupation sale of house plants as number two. and uh to have a discussion and and a potential vote on Gun Creek PBD. And four, Dave would like to put in some comments on the battery store flaw [clears throat] is number four. So moved in discussion. All in favor? I'm sorry. How is it that Gun Creek didn't make it on the agenda?

Oh, we'll talk about that. That's why I want to put it on our agenda now. Any other discussion? All in favor? [clears throat] I Okay, that's so moved. Okay, so first on our agenda is site plan application 1966 located. Anyone hear from there? Do you do you guys are I'm understanding that when we got approved last time the DOT turned down that secondary county. Okay. So you've got the new plan NB to do a little different

correct just the extra in in and out correct yeah so we we originally went with you know what we thought was a better and even safer plan

the two driveways separated um because there's we share the driveway with the next door neighbor but in any event can't fight city off and uh so we went back to the drawing board. We lost uh a couple parking spaces in that we made a dedicated plaza where we were doing uh and if come in the winter time we could we could have got three more spots. Um not that we couldn't now, but I think we're more settled on having a uh dedicated eating plaza in the back. Um and then we moved the in and out to uh to the um uh west side of the property. Um we have to remove uh a tree and this push this and the tree really is I think it's done. We would love to have kept it um but it's kind of dangerous dropping some big limbs. So it's really not um something we can save. Uh the other trees you've seen removed have been removed already in the previous um iteration and um as we started to do some of the work. Uh then the only other notable well couple other notable things. Um we have a stack parking uh for um spaces 15 and 16 that will be used for the employees and the owners. Um and otherwise everyone will have easy in and easy out access. We have one handicap space as what was required. Um our ramp now is to the back of the building near the serving um windows. I don't know if everyone can see that. um not full back but uh kind of in the middle of the show.

It shows two handicap. You only have one or two. Um we could have either one, you know, but uh required to have one.

Yeah. Yeah. We're only required for one. I really should have just had one handicap space there, but um so uh and then uh you know the deck is just going to be uh same level as the existing deck. Steps will greet uh people either from the street uh the middle or the back parking lot. I think nicely. Um the food truck uh location is pretty much the same. Uh we made a dumpster corral. Um and we actually we we laid it out so that it could actually become a dumpster. Right now we just plan on having the toes in there, but there's room there. If we want be too enlarged, we can make it a dumpster corral screened with a fence.

Question about that. How would the trash truck access that with two vehicles parked there? They wouldn't when they were there. We'd have to just uh schedule it before or after uh normal business hours, I would imagine. And uh that would just be a management issue for the owners. Casey, was the building okay on the amount of parking? Yes, stacked on, but they're they're there and they count. So, yeah. I've got a question about the parking though. I mean, you still going to have retail inside? Yes.

So, you've got two spaces for retail, two for office and restaurant. Is that boys? No, there's an office space upstairs. Um uh Vinnie also has his uh real estate business that uh is has office upstairs. And with all the seating outside, you've got another additional 12, which brings you to 16. And since you're going to be using 15 and 16 for employees, you've only got 14. Well, the employees are included. Did I Did I not include them? No. [clears throat]

Yeah. Two for retail for the office space and 12 for I have office space and then uh uh persons uh for the restaurant as well. The two spaces covers both. So those are employees or I you know I I don't recall how how the calculation really came out. I understand your confusion. It's even confusion when we initially do it. It really was a subtraction game from the last time and the comments that we got originally from the planning board. Um, so but it comes down to really only 14 spots. No,

you're not including 15 and 16.

No, I mean you got to include the people that are are there. So we're saying that we have two spaces for uh for the staff and uh retail we have two spaces and then uh 12 spaces for uh seating. And if we're wrong then we will have less seats, you know. [clears throat] I I was sort of sharing Norm's concern because I've I come up with a parking count even even higher than norm. Now, the last time we were here, one of the comments that we made, which I think we had an agreement with the owners were that they would come with a agreement with the neighbor uh from the um from the funeral home of an agreement that they had for parking there. So, in my mind, I'm not willing to vote on this until I see that agreement, which makes up maybe the difference here in the parking.

I'm not sure I referred to and anything more in the verbal. Well, we can look back in the minutes, but that's what I recall. Whether it's put him in that position to support Yeah, we I a matter of fact, we discussed that because why would he give a a license to let somebody use his parking lot? I wouldn't bring that either. Well, so if they have a gentleman agreement that, you know, the employees can perk there or he can park there, that's different than having a a lease or a any kind of an agreement in writing. I would never sign that either. The office space is that like rented space or is that the So it's Vinnie and um and Josephine are those two spaces.

So those it really isn't like something that they're renting. So, we don't really need them two spots. No, because it's internal use. Well, first of all, Casey said that he's fine with the amount of parking. And if you add it up, they they require two spaces for the retail they have them. Two spaces for the office space or restaurant, two spaces, and 12 for the seating. That's 16.

Well, we and and you guys approved it last last time, and we were three old. So, now I took the three away. Now I I have exactly what we needed. Now it's a problem. And plus, we will have the gentleman's agreement or however if you need it to be, we're sure we can do something with the uh funeral home people. But we're not presenting anything really different than we did before other than we other than we can't do the same layout that we did before. Yeah.

So I could very well Dave it says on excuse me on on his last application he had 16 spaces. Mhm. And that's what we approved last time. Yeah. And it was the same thing 2 two and 12. Two 12. But it was with the understanding that there would be additional parking available from the funeral home. And it was my understanding that the funeral home is not open to that as an agreement. I think they were like more of a temporary. We've been down this road before with other applicants who say they have parking in a different spot, right? Like we did with uh with uh No, I agree.

And um you know, we we never follow through with it. And here we've got the same understanding. Now we're back here. I come up with even a higher number than than Norm does. Well, I'm confused because I did my original calculation. I went to the board. I got comments back and that that last iteration was virtually what the comments said. I didn't argue it. I I put it on my drawings. Now, as far as I know, that's the code. That's what's on the books and that's what the owners are really required to do. Let me ask Let me interrupt you, Casey.

Yeah. It says on here 36 re three curves. So he's got 36 exterior seats. So he's got the 12. Is that the code? The three per Yeah. gives him the 12 spaces. So he's what he's saying is he's correct. That is the code. Then he's got two spaces I'm going to say is the office space. Those are really owner employee spaces. Just the heading's different by [clears throat] square footage, right? Well, we still don't have employees in there yet. Where are the people who are scooping the ice cream?

Following the code. Everything else is just arbitrary then. And how do I serve my clients? Well, the code says one space per per employee. Yeah. Right. So, that's part of the code. That's what they're I think that's what they're getting at. You need the code is per square feet. No, no. Plus one per employee address. So, so the 36 seats you need the 36 seats you have.

We got four four four four twos twos and twos. That's your 36 seats. You need 12 parking spaces. We got that. Then you have two spaces for the retail area. We got that. And then the office space. This is really employee spaces. You're not renting that. They're using it. Correct. Right. I found Am I hearing this the right way? I don't think I had it in originally to tell you. So, I think this office space should be employee to employee spaces. Is that the employees are upstairs? Employees who are working employees upstairs.

The employees is how they like their office for the restaurant. There's no customers upstairs. So, they keep their desk up there and they file cabinets and they're ordering food and that's what what I would assume that they're doing. They're not renting. But is that the max number of employees you'd ever have there at any one time is two? Two people. I would I've been in there where there's more more than two people. Oh, okay. Last time we agreed we had the same amount spots last time. Correct. Yes. and we agreed that he had a gentleman's agreement with the neighbor and now we're fighting. We're saying we can't do that. Last time we approved it. We got to try and figure this out.

I think I think last time we were looking more that he he mentioned an agreement with the neighbor that we were looking for to get something in writing from the neighbor. And that's what I believe Dave is making the point. We raised two tables. That is that that would solve your problem. He's always fine with that. Which I'm sorry I didn't get your first name. My first name is Ron Trail. Right. Then Ron mentioned that already. We'll take two of these tables out. Just take two tables out. We're good to go. That would be fine. That would be fine. Then you're good to go. Let me one other thing.

Have you talked to the county about this increased curb cut so we don't go down this road again? No. Is this going to be a curb cut to finish? It's going to be a curb cut that's almost 75 ft. That's a huge curb cut. I don't know as the county representatives and they walked it out for hour and a half. So they were they were officially approved it but they gave us direction based on a walk. Okay. An hour maybe an hour 15. Okay. So so as you know they're going to be okay with that 75 foot curb cut. They still need to submit it to the county for approval. Where are you getting the 75 ft Dave? Well, there's an existing curb. I just scaled it. With an existing curb cut, then there's another 19 and a half that's added to it.

Yeah, but that that's on the neighbor's property. That's the neighbor's curb. The county doesn't care. Well, they're looking at 75T curve cut. If I need to take that off, David, if you guys feel it would be better to take it off. I'm just showing what seems to be a ridiculous uh thing that the county made us do. I don't think that's safer. But um we were told to do it because they didn't like it when they were when the in-n-out were separated. But if you don't get the 19 and 12 foot, this doesn't work at all. We're back to square one. Yeah.

Well, again, based on their walk, we have four of the representatives with their best. It's arbitrary now because we have to go in front of them for the permit anyway. So, they walked it. They know exactly what we're doing. Here's the drawing and and there's nothing go back to them and get the permit before we would be approving what's in front of us and then he's got to go to the county and get approval. If they say no, then he can't get a building. Are we out of process? I mean, we don't want to waste your time obviously, but it is that what I'm hearing that is this normal? This is normal. Usually [clears throat] usually the curb cuts come afterwards and then just like wheelhouse. But

we approved it. right? He had the two two exits, the the DOT come back and says, "No, we don't want the one in Battel." And then he was back to square one. Then he ended up getting it fixed. So the understanding would be that if the county doesn't approve that or the county doesn't approve that curb cut, this none of this happens. We're back here again. You have to come back with some new plan. More permits, more Yeah. one. At some point, we're going to be all out of bullets and ice cream's not that profitable. So, we're trying. But yeah, this is like I said, it's our dime, your time. So, give us It's Yeah, if we were approving what's in front of us. If the county says no to what he

[clears throat] uh this fellow drew, then they're back to square one. Don't really have a lot of room in this parking lot for snow removal storage. Is this your removal? We have a lot of room. [laughter] Is this your back property line or do you own No, that's the black back property line. Um the the uh they do close down uh in the winter time. So that's the one thing that works for this current owner. And there's a rim between 115 and 16. There's a rim that would push it there too outside 15 and 16. No, they would have to remove it if if it was uh if it was necessary.

They'd have to haul it out if they're open. But if they're not open in the winter, what do we even bother talking? Right. Under your notes section there in landscaping, the second note, 5% dedicated to outdoor eating and recreation area for employees. What's that about? If I put that down there, I think I was quoting the um the design standards out. I tried to do my best to read them and understand them before I put a drawing together. Um, and it was a little while ago, so I'd have to look at it again. So, right now we're taking two tables off.

A picnic table or those tables up on the deck? Four seats. Well, that's one picnic table or two two of the small ones up on the deck. Can we do it? Because doesn't matter which one they go. It's up there. We need to just limit the number. Just we're going to reduce the seat from 36.

He's got two tables up in that brown shaded area. Four banger and a two banger. That's the six. That's the two parking spaces. And then all the tables I'm sure he's going to want to keep them by the food truck. And I'm I've never been there. I'm I'm sorry I haven't. But uh the I'm sure the other larger white areas more desirable. So we would be talking about taking those four a fourseater and a two-seater out that that kills the two space. So you go from 36 to 30 seating by six. Well, you could take out different ones, but then it's going to it doesn't matter on he takes out as long as he takes out 660.

Yes, I think that would be the stipulation. Okay. Everybody good? Sure. So, you want me to make the motion? Well, should something it has to be long that you're counting parts? Well, we would be approving a site plan as we would be removing six seats from the seating area to comply with the parking agreement. Then if he he needs to get his curb cut approval from the county. So moved.

Second. Any other discussion? All in favor? I You're all set, sir. Thank you. It's kind of fun on street parking over there. Aren't you? I just wanted to double down. Yeah, I see the funeral home but all the time. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Next on our agenda is the special use permit for 34 Island Park. Is that you, sir? Come on over here, please. Welcome to the hot seat. Welcome to the hot seat. Have a your name, sir? For Boris Crawford.

Okay. What you doing? Um, so I basically um have had a hobby that's gone out of control. Um, I I started with a couple dozen plants a few years ago and now I've got about a thousand. So um I have been growing them and propagating them and I've started selling online. Uh, I recently had a booth at the Haunted Holiday Market and I did well enough so that I wanted to expand a little bit and um be able to put up a sign outside of my house essentially and list it on Google Maps and stuff without having to run a follow with any any issues with zoning. Are you planning on being open for business all at certain times or

by appointment only and extremely rare occasions to have somebody in person? It would be not much different from just selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace. I wouldn't be having my home open to the general public. Okay. So, I would call you up saying I'm coming to pick up a cactus and exactly show up, get my cactus and hit the road up. Yeah. Anyone else have any questions? coming. It's hard to have questions when we haven't had a chance to study the comments here. 34. How far is that from White Haven? Um,

no, it's baseline or he's even showing a dedicated. I do have enough room. Got I was thinking it was planting. That's what I was thinking. You know, if you want to answer that. That's correct. So, you're growing all the plants inside the house now or the backyard or something?

Just inside the house. I've got a series of small little green houses, grow boxes and everything. Um, and it's just kind of, like I said, expanded a little bit beyond. So, I want to try to repoop some money for my hobby and uh do do a little bit more than I'm doing now. How do you get your word out? Um, Facebook. I'm I'm in a bunch of local plant groups. I do uh advertise on occasion if I want to sell some stuff. I've got a a handful of filiden elocatia singoniums that are available. Um, at any given time, I probably have between one and 200 plants available both for sale, but I haven't listed any of them beyond a handful just because I didn't want to run a follow of any zoning stuff.

And they're strictly house plants. No exterior. strictly house plants. Are there any special licenses required by agriculture or anything like that? Nothing nothing that research. Um I've spoken with other local groups and growers and we could have similar setups but um that I that I wanted to get this um can you make your own to be for well it probably won't go through so I can first

something you might want to look into my [clears throat] wife will be over I had I had been working out of my garage over the summer just have it open and and has the fresh air and everything and um moving. This has become a huge people have been walking by and like stopping and like just just striking up a conversation with me because I I've got some really interesting stuff. So yeah, send them my way. I move second. Anyone? Second by Nor. Any further discussion? All in favor? I You're all set. So thank you for coming in. Have a nice holiday. Got shoot them. I've got a little mini Christmas, too.

I got a good deal on. So, so out of your house, how many square feet is your house? Uh, 1950. And how much is now living space compared to small corner of the living room? Yeah. I had to convert my guest room. Look at all the ones I'm keeping there. But the basement, I took my utility corridor and I put shelves and I've got a bunch of grow boxes and um just hundreds of of little cutings ready to go. Great. It's funny. I got my first electrical since I redid my lighting and it's done off 150 bucks.

As as a real estate broker, I've been plenty of houses that had grow rooms in them, but never growing that kind of stuff. So, okay, next mini Christmas tree. I live across the street. I'm happy to know it's that up and up. So,

okay. Next on our agenda is Gun Creek's PDD. To my knowledge, [clears throat] they came in the homeowners, the homeowner association, the developer that they wanted to do away with all the walking pass, the pavilion, the lookout area, the bench seating, the pump in the pond, the grass slashlandscape area around the pond supposedly for kids play area, which who was not on the board at that time. Those were all the things we required for them to get the PDD and to get the 78 town home component which they sold roughly for 400 grand a piece. That's a $31 million sale. They gave the developer a $20,000 bill and he paid the 20 grand and they let him off stuff. Now, there was some sidewalk tradeoffs. I didn't literally go there and measure, you know, hey, they had 15 ft of sidewalk here. They did away with and they added 15 feet here. There was some addition.

So, you talking about the town boards? Yes. This did not come to the planning board. And if you remember, it's always been said if there's any change whatsoever to a PDD, it's got to come back to this board. Why are the residents so against these improvements?

The people bought in there and then the big argument to my knowledge was is we don't want people walking in our backyards, but it wasn't their backyard. It was HOA property behind their property line. But so it was kind of seeable from their backyard but not in their backyard properties. So they must have all bought there knowing I'm sure Ryan had a something up on the wall showed all the past. Well, I'm sure it saved him quite a bit of money. 20 grand was a The homeowners association said they didn't want to pay. So is that the new standard now on a a PDD? They no longer have to do any of those things.

The only thing we got rid of was the pad. But that was just the block the other stuff building the pump. None of that was there. It was predicated based on this. I didn't leave this charge. In fact, I was probably the one most against it because I thought it was inappropriate. But my point was it was something that was negotiated on behalf of the town. Like to just say no, it's okay. We don't need that was BS. I thought you said that was all gone. So, just the path is gone.

To my knowledge, all the amenities that they put in for the PDD are gone. They didn't put the pump into the pond because they didn't want to put electric service. So, I said, "Well, what about a solar pump?" They There was supposed to be a pavilion there, a lookout area. I I remember Dave was going back and forth between benches and sitting. So, I mean, here's the dangerous thing. If we make those requirements for a PDD and then the town just says, "Ah, you don't need them." Then the next guy that comes in, he doesn't need them either. That's my thought. Exactly. Okay. So, again, we go back to we go back to the same thing again that we got to treat everybody equally when they come in here. So, if he doesn't have to do it, he doesn't have to do it.

Well, so there's again, we create a new standard. There's a new standard. Throw take our book, throw it away. I I every week just unbelievable. So they got up to stage five. So my question would be why wasn't stage one completed before they granted them the second stage? Because from my understanding, let's just talk about path. That's the very front of the project. Y and if the path were behind the town homes, let's say, [clears throat] well, before the town homes were there, it's easy to get equipment. Just drive over the grass and put the thing in. But once the town homes and the lawns are there and all that's been established, it would be extremely expensive to try to build that path. Starting at one end and working your way down the path.

Where are we right now? Has the board agreed not to put the path in? Yes. Well, then what are we talking about? I'd like to I'd like to make a a motion. I'm sorry. I just piece together some of the other stuff. appears to be a screw up dating back to 2016. You guys approved it, but then it didn't show up on the site plan, so then it was never built. But that So other than being poed, what can we do here? We we can file an article 78.

So what's an article 78? in article 78 would be to take this to a a court outside of Grand Island and present it to a judge that that this is what the town board did without following in my opinion proper procedure by bringing it back here. So this board has no source of income where the town attorney pays for it. The town pays for it because we're the planning board. So they reverse the board's decision. They could the judge could reverse the decision. Yes. And he could say, "No, it's good to go." So, we approved it in 2016 and then somebody submitted a site plan that didn't include all those things.

It was approved in 2014, I believe. Then in 2016, Bob Starzinski fought hard, man, for all them pass. Yeah, I believe for the town home in 20. mainly the paths the path is shown on the 2016 plan but the the play area and the gazebo were not so that the path subject to the town board what we just did botchi area the gazebo the play area was some risk whatever happened sometime between 2014

because they just decided not to draw it on the plan and hope nobody noticed so Dave just I can speak with respect to buying thoughts on this. So it was the $20,000 which we asked them to kind of articulate which is going to be a wood chip path that was going to be paid for by the developer that would ship to the HOA to maintain. So the cost they had started some of it but not a significant amount of it. So that $20,000 plus the curb cuts were to curb cuts and sidewalk work were added to connect basically where Park Lane and the Gun Creek development meet. There's a little pocket park there. So, those are being done in that area to add crosswalks

to make that park accessible from the two. So, those are the two. I'm not saying right or wrong. I'm just telling you what our analysis was didn't include the gazebo in that [clears throat] before. It was just that path in exchange for $1,000 in the sidewalk. It's still for the course. It's still even at the gazebo was the screw up. That was discussed when I was at plan board because I did this. I was here. Dave was here. I think Norm was here. Were you here for Gun Creek? That we you [clears throat] were really adamant about the past. I was here for part of Gun Creek. I don't know if all of it

and the seating on the pass, whether they be benches or seating rocks or whatever. When that project was submitted, were all stages submitted at the same time? In 16, the the master plan was submitted all at once. So, it seems to me what's on that 16 plan, the phases of construction were submitted separately, but most of the phases only have to do with the lot layouts and so on. They didn't have any of the amenities with them. That's why we were approved the phases. That's what I was That's where my thinking was like. But really and truly, if you did phase one, the paths that were in phase one should have been done before phase one was approved, accepted by the town. Yep.

He skipped everything and he waited to the very last phase and he's got the road in connecting I believe to park lane

and some barricade up there and the people are moving the barricade and driving through that. So that's still private property. And part of his argument is is he said, "Now look at I'm liable. If somebody gets hurt driving on the road, we have to hurry up and get this done right away." And I was like, "Well, then tell them to put a couple hunks of con plywood in the road and buy some of them big cement things." And should it's not the town board's job to protect a developer's uh liability insurance. They sure never protected any of mine when I was a builder. I was always on my own.

So, I'd like to make a motion that we pursue an article 78 and take this to a higher court and let the court decide. So, move because what are we going to do now when Frank Bank comes in?

So, the last and I'm sure Tom can verify this. They're talking about let's find out how much the pass are worth so that if he doesn't do it, he just has to give us that money. Well, now in my opinion, now you're you're basically selling PDDs. You're you're going to sell a PDD. So, you sold this PDD for 20 days and you gave him a $31 million. Now, I understand you have to deduct the residential part of what homes he would have put in residentially, but it sure was going to be anywhere near 31 million bucks and 78 town homes.

I I guess I don't know enough about article 78. I guess I I'm not objecting necessarily to what you're you're proposing here, but I guess I'd like to get some maybe some legal advice. We have the attorney here. There's going to have to be discovery. They're going to have to go through what the the PDD looked like, what the phases were. Somebody's going to have to survey everything that was done or not done out there. Get our meeting minutes. Our meeting minutes. There's going to be a lot of It's basically it's basically just going to be that they left them off for the all the walking trails. Yeah, I think that's out of the sight. But once a lawyer gets into court, they've got to go through up

because that's what they did. They put them off on all the trails. all of the trails. The only trail that was removed, there was one trail that came in here and went around this pond. That's the only one that was removed. There was a play area and some other stuff here. The trails over here are there. There's lots of other stuff that was done. One trail.

That's the current. So, that's the plan that just occurred. Here's the one. This is the one from 2016. So this trail right here is MIA. These ones over there are there. Then what's I saw one here. This is the one from 2014. So that trail is that one. And then there was the play area which is right here. That's the one that it would be back here on that. So you're looking like this. That's how it was. It's not. No, it's

so and the gazebo and everything else that was in there is not there also. So that but so that that's so that again 2014 plan shows that stuff and then this is the60 that doesn't have it. And that was never discussed at 2016 or forgotten about or Well, is that one cover sheet of a packet? So, you know how we get our cover sheets with in 2014? I'm interested.

It appears so based on what I reviewed in 2014. That whatever because what they do as part of the PDD it starts with the concept plan that gets approved. Then as they move through the phases they submit the you correct if I'm wrong but they submit detailed plans and when that detailed plan came in it this one and didn't have it got missed wasn't built with that well yeah but that's now now wait a minute if if you're supposed to do something but once and it gets missed you're just just because it's missed doesn't mean you're off the hook

not when the town article 78 for an approval that occurred in 2016 that forgot that You're going to have to there's statute of limitations prevent you from even if you had a claim. You're not going to be able to bring anything related to the 2016 approval of a detailed plan that didn't that left out things that were in the concept plan the 14 plan. Yeah. And I don't want to get too far into this because obviously if you file that I'm going to be technically speaking on the other end of it. But I just want to make sure that the issues are clear are stable one path that went around that that pond and the fountain

with the fountain in the pond. Is the pond there? Oh, there is a Yes. So, the fountain is identified here. But did we get Yeah, he did away with the fountain. They didn't want to do the fountain. They said they would pass $25,000. I don't remember anything that's the whole whole project that was originally submitted to me that's the detailed submitted that's got the grading that's got everything in a huge step you know we really don't even need a planning board. What do we need a planning board for? So to me that's just, you know, when they say, "Oh, they're coming back just to reprove stage five, but the lots

are there. You guys, this is and it all looks good and it's the lot." Yeah, it's not without That's what I'm asking. What's the comment that the homeowners association said they're not going to maintain the pass? that was part of their some of the homeowners who claim who came in complaining that they didn't want that there also claimed that ex existing areas like I think I have a real quick question though when they bought those houses did they see that plan that it was going to be there they claimed no well that's what I said that's not that's not our fault that's what I said plan's public and then there's issues with like some of these area there's sidewalk I think across some of the areas that are your existing

a lot why are we sidewalk haven't been building a house on a street with a big M1 parcel in your backyard and complaining. Well, don't forget now the other flip side of this is is now they have the availability by some of the stuff that got niched to add another five to seven more lots, building lots that supposedly we're going to be supposedly we're going to be seeing that. Well, that could I only want a five, but there's no chance at help. And I'm not putting you on the spot, Tom, and you could not answer.

Why wasn't it sent back to the planning board? Frankly, because they were in a they were in a hurry because they were finishing that road, right? And the issue was concrete work. We didn't want to have to bear that the concrete work for those the crosswalks at the end was something that needed to be done whether they paid for it or not. Out though nothing what I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just telling you that's the answer. They were in a hurry. They had the crews on site. We wanted to get that done and that's what pushed it through. How can it get buffaloed by such minuscule? They uh they created the urgency and the town board fell for it. Yep.

They are. So, we got skipped and I was told it was Diane Spitzer said it was because it didn't have to do with any of the buildings. They didn't feel it needed to come back here. And then I said, "Well, why did we get the three parking spaces next to the new Chipotle restaurant? It says site plan modification on their on the paperwork that came. Why did we get that and not that?" Because quite honestly, I would have never agreed to know 20 grand. No, it's I I would have went out and got that bid myself and come up with a number. Y 20 grand, I think, was a was a was a joke.

You gave the guy $78 million or $31 million in home sales for 20 G's. But Tom, I I would have paid you that 20 grand in a heartbeat if I was him. Well,

did I hear you right, Tom? Saying that if we took this to a 78, you don't think it would prevail? No, no. I'm saying with the only things that would be an issue that would be timely were the town board, which was the the woodshed path and the pond fountain and then some smaller things with sidewalks in exchange for the $20,000 in the sidewalks. The gazebo play area issue that would be [clears throat] nine years untimely and you couldn't really pursue that. the the current action which was the 20,000 of the sidewalks and a chance of the wood chip p the pond would theoretically be timely. I not my area of expertise like I don't want

but don't don't forget if you get a building permit and something's missed by the building department there's a rule there that says they can find it say oh we we missed this just because they missed something don't mean the the builder is off the hook so if something got missed I don't feel the guy's just off the hook because well it's been Casey made a mistake or I made a mistake or whoever somebody made a mistake and didn't check the previous two-year plan to the you know what I'm getting at just because it got

skipped. What's your point of view on that? It should should have happened in phase one for the phase one portion. The trail should have been there. I believe they they did some of it. They didn't do all of now because you got to maintain it. It's just a COA isn't maintaining it. So we know that's so it was put in so the do they followes okay I'm just trying to take this through we've been in order but we they've had punch lists for every phase as they go on and get approval for the next one. So like this the last one we just approved seven recently there still an outstanding punch list

five I think the back they went out of order but there's been punch lists for everything we've been trying to condition the future approvals upon completing anything that was outstanding on the past ones but now we're kind of we're running out of leverage now there's no those pathways were on those list one of the early phases they had to put in like gazebo and a path. And they they did it. The path now is completely gone. You'd never find that's completely gone.

So if they get rid of the gazebo in the playground, that's not for us. But if they had a slave plan where showed a sidewalk here, sidewalk there, that's for us look at approve. Now they changed their whole scope because they wanted to save money. And they didn't come back here. It didn't get back here. any change to a PV could be reviewed by I I think I can recall as it came in with the first phase and second phase we asked about when those things would be done and unfortunately the PDD didn't have a time schedule with it and he said those are going to be done as right the plan

don't forget this is one project that took eight plus n years I don't feel that what was supposed to be done on the first year. Now that we're in the ninth year, the statute of limitations has let that go by the wayside because the project's ongoing. I agree. Does your I don't I don't I mean I'm not an attorney. But when you file an article 78, you're seeking to void an action that the town board took, right? So that action would be approving a detailed site plan that was approved in 2016. Okay. that action objectively speaking. No, we're doing an article of 78 challenge to

to eliminate the change that they have permitted to that site plan, not the site plan. That's what from 16 forward the 2016 one.

I don't know who would be your attorney would pay somebody. It obviously wouldn't be HS and Russ, but they'll tell that stuff from 2016. So the gazebo it wasn't on the detailed plan. I mean, I guess I can talk to Peter if there's a leg to stand on with respect to the town proper going back and trying to hold them accountable for something that was inadvertently disappeared for a site plan. We might have some leverage as a town to hold them responsible for that. But as far as anybody filing an article 78 against a top to try and resend an approval that was not consistent resend the approval of the detailed plan wasn't consistent with the concept plan is going to be time.

Are you following? He's saying that we can only follow the if if we agree to an article 78, it can only be about the most recent thing they did, not things that were missed right back farther. And I can check with Peter to see if there's anything the town proper can do to rectify the issues. They may have been in off which it seems. Do they have any more approvals? They need to come in for the last road. I think I don't it's built. I don't think we've received the dedication. They haven't they haven't accepted the very last.

So I mean we go back to the 2014 plan and say these are the things you're missing. The date of this is is July 15. That's the newest. Okay. But then it's already been stamped as of August [snorts] 7th of this year. Removed at no November 6th of this year. Remove walks. So they've been removed from this drawing. Which she's already paid the 20 grand. He paid the tone already. But originally they did show on that drawing. Yes. Yes. So they seems like it's been removed.

Yeah. Within the last But I guess that's the point is it the fact that they sought to have it removed suggest that it was intended to be there despite what the 2016 plan. Well, I'd like to go back and see the original drawing from 2015. I have. Yes. We can dig them out. The 2014 one hasn't. the 2016. If this if this board agreed to file the article 78 that whoever whatever attorney gets hired, he would go through and say this is what we're we can do as an article 78. We can't I understand Tom's point we can't ask for more. We can maybe go for more in a different way but not through the article 78.

How's the board standing with this Tom? approved. I mean, they I can't talk about you guys suing us. Well, I can't really answer that question. I've probably already said more than I should with respect. They've already passed this to remove the walks and paths. Looks like two separate dates there. Yeah, but if you follow an article someday, it completely reversed. No, it was I mean there might have been two separate site plans, but there was one town board action that approved. Well, that's kind of interesting that there's two separate dates. One to remove sidewalks, one to remove paths. Yeah. said the town board approved it here on April February 8th, 2016,

but both of those would have been a sight contract. Don't forget on top of all of the time frames and what Tom's saying, we still have that we got skipped again and at some point they either got to disband the board and do away with it, do it all themselves. And quite honestly, I'm not saying anything about Tom's expertise, but some of them other guys on the board have no clue of what this group knows.

So the the sidewalk that was removed is along this substrate that was connected to Park Lane. So there's going to be a sidewalk that wouldn't belong to anybody and it would end up being the towns to maintain theoretically. Well, provided access on this area over to the school area. Right. Well, there's still a sidewalk on the east side of the road and then a crosswalk to the town's playground. Mhm. So, instead of that sidewalk, they traded that sidewalk for the crosswalk, my understanding. But is the road is the road continued through there? Yes, the road continues through.

Okay. But that was a big big discussion too. So if if we vote for an article 78, obviously the lawyer that's going to represent the planning board is going to make a list and say this is what happened and then we would all know exactly because right now Tom's telling us apart, Casey's telling us apart. Pete Marston's telling me a different part. You need somebody to get in decides who going to represent us. The town the town board has to hire an attorney for the planning board and the town of Grand Island pays the bill. Should we hire Shouldn't we make a suggestion as the attorney we want? Oh, I have a good one. A lot of fun.

What's that? Better call. Oh, his name is Nate McMurray. That would be a lot of fun. She's I think we're looking down. think we need to start whether we want to follow the article 78 or not before we win article 78 and costing a lot of money. Is there any other way that we can have some resolution to this so it doesn't happen again? This happens all the time though. That's our intent. This happens all the time. Well, this at some point we have to do something. Well, I mean this way this thing but it's less ongoing. It's less of almost Yeah. get on the precedent, right? They

And then the same thing with the grass. I mean, we haven't got to that yet tonight, but the grass cutting thing, we got skipped by three weeks, not come to the planning board, and they still have done nothing. It got passed at the town board level, and that's as far as it's gone. So, it's been four months. They didn't get my notes. They [clears throat] They've done nothing. Has that gone out of the bid any Nothing? No, they haven't even they were the last I heard at last meeting, they were still drawing up the bid sheets and all that garbage. So, nothing's gone forward on that. Well, I think that's a huge We'll get to that next. So, the question is is that's a huge liability, right? Yes. I'm going to make a motion that we file the article 78.

Second. Second by Norm. Any further discussion? All in favor? Hi. Hi. Hi. I guess my only hesitation and I don't know the whole story here. Yeah, you can you can follow out if you want. I guess I don't know the h the timeline of the drawings and the approvals to we're basically fighting for our integrity as a but I guess if we're saying 78 on that the most recent changes were not sent back to us for a site plan, then I would say I. Okay. So, did you say yes? Yeah, I I do. Yeah, I'm fully in favor if this did not go the correct way and that I'm all in for that. Okay. So, it's a unanimous vote. I would like to see the 16 plan

and I will come in and take care of that myself. I'll look at it and ask things. So, we're going to move forward with that. We have to send a letter to Pete Marston that that's what we voted for and then I'll follow up what you know what what I need to do is to Hello, I thought we should hire. Okay. Next on our list is Dave wants to make some comments on the battery. Absolutely not. You want to blow it up? Let's blow it up. A lot of fun. Are we doing this again? if it doesn't cover wheat field. So,

planning and zoning a I appreciate you putting this. Okay, let's let Dave talk because it's already just a little background. Um,

has tremendous amount of experience in dealing with these issues electric. We have a whole uh part of our company that's led by one of my partner and we're doing projects all over the United States on these kinds of systems. Uh, furthermore, we're probably doing more uh solar sites than any other firm in in the state. We've got over 80 solar projects, 185 megawatts of energy, 1100 acres of solar sites and so on. So we have a lot of experience in dealing with these things. So I put my comments together and uh I'll pass these around so you can um and Brad at the last meeting was asking a question of what these look like. storage. So I'll just read through this. So it's basically a storage container with

exactly the size of a semi truck. Okay.

Or a a one megawatt unit and they can go up to five megawatts. So, so I just saying here battery electric storage of EB bees for the storage of surplus power generally from solar and wind farms is a complex issue requires careful consideration. The majority of these batteries are lithium ion subject to thermal runaway. The fires that involve them are very difficult to extinguish. Lithium ion battery fires burn with temperatures of 800 to,000 degrees Fahrenheit, take up to 72 hours to extinguish. The town needs to be careful to separate a law regulating bees which are battery electric uh energy storage systems from locations or facilities that store electric batteries. There's a big difference. Most of these the store electric batteries are associated with automobiles repair facility selling or servicing uh EV automobiles or in the case of buses that are battery electric. And I'll note here that we are currently doing a study with Grand Island schools to add battery electric buses to their fleet and charging facilities at their bus garage. It's a big issue for the Grand Island Fire Department. Building codes covering these issues are only recently being developed. The primary code that covers these is the NFBA, National Fire Protection Association. You'll note it's not included in local order number five. uh and the on the large file. These come from my two cartridge. Make a clear distinction between battery energy storage systems and buildings or vehicles that split batteries. Our law is not about the latter. Make the Grand Island law about battery energy storage systems that are a part of or associated with a solar farm. There are some of these that are standalone that do not are not part of a faith. They're just standalone to store uh electricity that's put back into the grid. Include as a revealing and proving agent the Grand Island Fire Department. Grand fire

departments across Europe are all really focused on battery electric fires for lithium-ion batteries. If you walk over there right now, I'm sure you can talk to the chief and he'll give you song and dance about their concerns for them. This is a high priority in fire departments and they need to be involved. Nor made some comments last uh meeting that I think were very appropriate included. I had a regulation about monitoring the heat rise in a storage facility. The first indicator that you got a problem in these is thermal uh the temperature going up. It's easy to to monitor these things uh remotely and they should be monitored I said at the fire hall. Early detection of a spike in temperature is important to control a fire before a runaway. The definition of a tier three system is as follows. I've written it down. I'm not going to read it. It's wrong in the way the law is written. The tier three description is not correct. They also mentioned the city of New York Fire District and they're looking for approval from them. Um, I have a copy of the the fire department regulations if you want to look at them. But the fire department of New York City approves a system, a whole installation. They don't approve the unit itself. They depend on the manufacturer to approve the unit, not uh not the New York City Fire Department. So, the reference to their approving the equipment is not right. It should be approved by the manufacturer with which the manufacturers do on a regular basis. The overwhelming majority of solar farms in New York State do not have battery electric storage systems. Of the 80 that we're doing, only five have battery electric storage systems with them. They're just not deemed necessary. Um they are providing energy directly to the grid. Question I have is why is Grand Island considering doing this? Who's asking? If approved,

requiring screening, fire department access, appropriate distances to residential areas, water supply, hydrants, and security are all things that need to be addressed uh in these facilities. The size of a 1 megawatt storage unit is the size of a small semi-truck. Um Brad asked a really good question about that and hopefully the picture helps describe it a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. And there is a really great document that just came [clears throat] out this week and I say it's hot off the press this week. There's an updated version put out by NARETA uh which is a solar guide book. It includes guidelines for municipalities. Something that Grand Island can look at copy for battery electric storage systems. That's the website it's available on and it really is a terrific reference for municipalities. I don't see it being referenced at all in um the local law. Oh, my my question is a town the size of the town of Grand Island with what we have for a fire department on the town of Grand Island, are we even equipped to handle an emergency? I would say not.

So then why would we even consider allowing them in our town? I don't know. I that's why I asked the question who was asking and and why? I think there was somebody that wanted to come here and put a a battery storage facility and I believe it was a separate unit not connected to the solar but the reality is there's pretty much no innocent these are meant to be fought they're not meant to be fought when the fire starts fire you let them go so the fire company

in some ways it's a the point is not to you can't put the fire out in the unit but you can't make it, you can't let it spread. So all the systems that we're talking about are keeping it from spreading just to that one particular type of feedback is exactly what we want. Once you're in thermal runaway, it's it's running away. That's why you can put this into your whole thing and send it off to the town board. Well, it'll be in the minutes, too. Um, well, do you have a do you have great job on this? I have it. You can send it.

Thank you for that. Thank you very Okay, I'm going to move on here, guys. Communications received and filed. Communications? None. Or I moved on to unfinished business. We need to make a motion to elect the chairman for next year. I'll second. Any discussion? [laughter]

Okay. In my nomination, Dave has done a spectacular job leading this board for a number of years and we respect the time and effort you place. So, Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. Okay. We need a vice chair. The last was Dave. I nominate Dave. Or you want to do it again, Dave? Just Oh, yeah. Okay. Uh, any discussion there or a second? Second. Second. Any discussion? All in favor?

Okay. So, we'll send that to the town board to Kristen, please. Unfinished business. We'll leave Long Road on there. Bob Plus is not here. I'm sure that there's still still no last meeting.

Okay. While notice of claim they filed It's a notice of claim of what? A notice of reserves their rights to do with article 78. So we sue a municipality after notice that you intend to file a claim within 90 days. Okay. So they filed that.

Okay. Uh next on our unfinished business is the the grass and snow world. Last time when we had the talk tank, everyone had a lot of negative comments and 50 ways to Sunday. I would like that. Christine, I think she included them in the minutes. So, um, we had suggested that we separate Yeah. the grass and snowing rule from everything else. Everything else is covered under other portions of town cove. Okay.

So, I think that goes a long way to help clean this up. One of my first points is to separate the two. Okay. So, I'll make a motion that we separate the grass and snow removal from the balance of the rest of the language and the law to other items. Second. Anyone? Second. Second by Brad. Any discussion? All in favor? I Okay, moving on to particulars.

Be separated from zombie homes and people that don't cut their ass. Zombie homes, I believe, is a whole another ballpark. But isn't that covered over that whole Casey? Can the grass cutting law, does that apply to the zombie home? Yes. I mean that's say the primary but homes that are they they were included in minutes last does it apply to town own the property that they don't maintain in the middle of sub housing

developments what's ourselves so I I don't think we should separate zombies from grass cutting that's all the grass cutting law of all the houses and which is they're not nearly the problem they used to be. 18 of them on all

I was told abandon maybe they're not we had a big issue back home because there's county [clears throat] that they're actually zombie homes there's things that they can do right but so I think case there's more abandoned are the ones that actually qualified. But okay, when you're talking about things that are just have been zombie over in the sense that it's been entirely abandoned, nobody's living, everyone's caring for it. There's more than two or three, but there's still not. But okay, so back to the grass cutting part.

I thought it was something we brought up because we had a concern that if I don't cut my grass, you made a complaint because you don't like that's where I thought we were getting with that. because that's still there. I think there's a lot of language that has to be re relooked at in this case. I think it's time frames. I think it's process. I think it's repeat offenders. I think there's a lot that you know the hours 24 or 24 what did they say or date 24 days after or like all some of these snow times don't make sense. You know, let's let's try to stick with the grass first, though. We'll do snow. All right.

So, the thing with the grass thing is like I understand it's got the building department has some discretion here, but if you go to cut the grass and I have a sixoot fence and a padlock on the How do you get back there to cut? got a couple that's gonna do that if you ask him to. Oh, Tom, you want to visit?

Tom, I'm telling you, I'm I'm going to get my lawn, my brass cutting thing because I'm sure you're going to be paying the minimum of 250 a cut and it's going to take me an hour and a half and I'm going to make 250 bucks. I'm I'm putting in for the bids like government, huh? Will you hire me when you get it? I'm Yeah, I think I'm gonna need a lot of help,

but I I just What I don't like is that we've allowed currently at the building department, and nothing against you, Casey, or the rest of the department, if they come, they can come up to our door and ring the bell. They're not allowed to go walking around our lot. It's private property unless they're invited in. Now, this law gives them the availability for my neighbor. Brad doesn't like me half the time. The way I vote, Brad's going to call up and say, "Dad didn't cut his grass. They're going to come over to my house to inspect, and now they're going to be walking through my backyard where maybe I don't want them in my backyard." And then if they do hire someone to cut the lawn, if that contractor gets hurt, and I'm sure Tom will attest to this, the first person he's going to sue is the property owner. And when you get a multi-million dollar Celeno lawsuit or Barnes lawsuit, your homeowner insurance is going to be cancelled and then you're never going to get homeowner insurance for the rate you're currently paying. Yeah.

So, we've opened our the residents up to that. And then the other thing I don't like is that they're going to charge for the grass cutting thing, but what about the administrative cost? Someone's got to work load on the building department. Go look at it. Send the 10day thing. Follow up on it. Hire the L. Hire put the put the grass thing out to bid. hired the contractor. Send the contractor there. Send the homeowner the bill. He's going to tell you, "Drop that. I'm not paying you." Now, you got to file it. That costs money. Leans aren't free. You got to hire a lawyer. File file the lean. Then try to get the lean pushed over to their property taxes. And if the bill does get paid, someone's got to do that accounting. And all the taxpayers paying paying that bill. I I think we have better things to do with our money. It's not cheap to file tax money. It's not cheap to file a lean.

No, not especially if you have to hire a lawyer. $25 to cut a grass, it's not even worth filing a lean. I mean, if you have to hire a lawyer to go down and file your lean, it's not going to be no hundred bucks. I can tell you that. If it's less than $5,000 anyway. So, I understand that they need some type of better system to enforce things. I just don't think this was the answer. I'm just shocked we have another poorly written law. And and I'm sure if we go around the table last time we had the talk tank, Pete Pete shut us down. Tom, you weren't here that that meeting. Pete shut us down. Says, you know, I've heard enough.

There's there's just a million holes in this law. Right. There were the minutes that Christine just copied, I had eight or 10 points there, 12 points. One of them to your point was uh you know town's got to add some kind of markup to the bill to cover the cover the town's cost and and I I bet you that markup should probably be in in the range of 750 to a,000 bucks a grass cut plus the 250 to pay the grass cutting guy. Yeah. It should be grass and snow only trees. Well, yeah. I mean already separated the one that's the most dangerous is dead trees that are falling over. We had a bunch of those.

There is a law already on the books if you have a dead tree that they can come on your property and do it. But what about a stump? I mean, that's ridiculous. Yeah, but we already we already just we already Jen went through everything and found the bulk of the law all over in the code as is. So, we just said we just made the motion and pass that we took grass and snow and made that the law. The rest of the stuff is out. Okay. So now we're down to grass and snow. I mean, is it Casey? Is it really that bad that people aren't cutting their lawns?

There are a handful where people don't cut the lawn and the neighbors are very, very upset about. And what's the handful? Five, 10, 20, maybe eight. I mean, so isn't there a easier way to do it rather than this whole thing where we go in and cut the lawn form that we just find them? Well, there's no one there. That's the problem. There's no owner's available that we can get in touch with and do anything to. We get them to pay for it then. Well, this ends up on the No, we don't have to file. We put it goes right from

the law says lean. No, it says we put it says lean lean. There's a lean in the law. I mentioned that the eliminate the lean clause because there's a lean clause in the law. Yep. Let me up on the tax bill. Yeah. And there's another establish a lean bottom page 18. Yeah. 198.

Who wrote this? Well, when I had the conversation with uh Councilman Garcia, he said he looked at Lancaster and other places and this is the same law that they have. My son just moved into Lancaster and we got the law Lancaster. It's nothing like this. Nothing. There isn't even a height. There isn't even a grass height requirement Lancaster.

And with respect, I told this was looked over by an attorney. And if the attorney did look this over, it's very disappointing because there's things that are written in here as new and that are already stated in our code, which is a big reason why our zone such a problem. But this was approved by the attorney as I was told and read.

Tom, how how do I I'm not trying to put you on the spot, so just don't answer don't answer me if you don't want to answer me. How do we ask the town board to do a doover? Now, now it got it got passed four to zero. So, how do we ask for a duel? Didn't P didn't P vote against us? No. Nobody zero. It was 4 Z voted against M1. Oh, the M1. I'm sorry, Tom. You were going to say what?

Just make a motion. Motion reject the law and ask for if they're serious about it to rewrite it. Okay. Uh is that the motion? Did you just make that motion? I' Brad second it. Any discussion? Any discussion? All in favor? I. All right. We'll have to send that off to the town. Tom's gonna I'm not getting any Christmas gift from the board, am I? At the end of the day,

but Tom, with respect, if this would have come and we would have had something to say here, we wouldn't be in the spot, you know, don't stop you guys. I guess we don't that has to stop. What do you mean? What we need is what Dave just did. When you have feedback on a law, give feedback. Not just kidnap that didn't happen here obviously, which I know is another bullish contention. That's because nobody came here to wrote the law. What's not here to present? So if no one's here to explain it to us and no one and no one's been able to tell them, they probably mean like you mean planning board going to be able to

like the law we passed about not being able to sell your neighbors tomatoes at your tomato stand. Yeah. You said what? That was really stupid and we really don't who's going to police that and about the dirty wash of the bedness. Okay, before we pass before we move on and serve as yes, it's weird, but

and for the record, that's when things problem these things happen. You know, I'm in another process of trying to get some processes going, but this is the things that happen. And then it turns into a six-month debacle when if it would just follow the processes and procedure and you guys ultimately have the ultimate vote. But you have to follow this or volunteer sitting here and doing their time and many of the these gentlemen are way ladies are way more qualified than I am sitting on this floor. Take the advice for the help. Okay. you wanted to make a comment about Frankerbanks project.

Oh, I my question was is that's now going Frank or I should say what is that? What do they call it?

Gw is going through a they're trying to look for how they can do um a sunset clause on there and they reodified the plan some on there. And my question is that if that's happening and they're now adding sunsets and adding special language into that project, it really seems like something one that should be coming back here. And I'm opening my voice because this is the same situation we're going to end up with if that PDD, we grant PDDs because we find them as enhancement and improvement to the neighborhood. So, we're granting these things. But if that doesn't come back again because it's been changed and now we're adding sunset language to that as to when that has to be completed and certain time frames which we have no written code for or written law for except for the the project that's going on on that corner. I don't know where that's going to lead to. So I think it should be open conversation

respectfully. Yes. But you guys are here to [clears throat] deal with the site plan application. The town board deems from a policy standpoint that we need to that's whether we say you know what you got to build in two years or start over. That's that type of a change isn't one that really ought to end up. Um they I will say that they say that last time when the planning board approved that PDD they keep saying but when the planning board approved that PD this board gave many recommendations underneath that PDD to saying we like this but so we it wasn't really so-called an approval from this plan.

It was an approval with conditions. So, I don't know. Were you on the board? Were you on the board with me with the PDD with Jim Sharp and we were trying to redo the PDD law? Yeah. And we were trying to put the sunset into the into the PDD. We were working with an attorney and the lawyer came in and said we could not do it. That it couldn't be done because there's existing PDDs out there and you can't create the law with these existing ones out there. You can't put the sunset on golf view when you got other PDDs sitting out there.

Keep in mind two things. One, there's a difference between changing the law and in this case they they they agreed to it. So right off the bat to the whether we can or can't once they agree to it, they don't have a basis to tell us no. Who's they agreed? You mean the develop? Yeah, they said they will they deal with that, right? as part of the approval as part of the approval it would could be conditioned upon that if it's not built within I forgot what the number of years was I want to say three that it it reverts back so that's just is it now built to completion or construction be that's the type of stuff we they're putting an overlay

and then they're talking about he's got to put in 20% infrastructure before the PDD can be removed that I don't know where that Garcia came up with the 20% thing I don't know where he got that from that's the first I heard or something. Yeah. 20%. And then now they were back down to the Timberlink homes pin to pin, backyard to backyard. So you would have R1A on G View, R1A and Timberlink, pinto pin, which is the rest of their subdivision is like that because I built in there. Now they want a wildlife corridor behind them before the pinto pin starts

and they move that. So my question is are they going to put a sign at each end of the wildlife corridor? Deer enter here and you won't exit at this end. And if and you know what if there is a if there is a corridor in between there and it shouldn't be pin anymore. Well just telling you what they were back at the last meeting. I guess you're getting beat up quite a bit here. I'll save my comments on that site so we're off the So the Here's one thing. We're on the board here. We volunteer. We vote on something and then somebody don't like it, they go to town and it gets Oh, that's that'sor, right? We don't have

I understand they can take our input however they want to take it. But what I think Jen is talking about is that and I feel the same way Jen does that we feel and Tom this is nothing against you personally or anything or being a counselor that I feel they reinvent the wheel as they go that the wheel is spinning and instead of just following the procedure and moving forward they say let's scrap that wheel and pull a pull a new wheel and go this way. Well, that's my ongoing complaint that every week we have a new set of standards. Well, yeah. And that's what I'm trying [clears throat] this project is unequivocally.

Yeah. I mean, because every time the overall is Tom is that it's a PDD and the every time two particular people walk into the boardroom, walk into a board meeting and make recommendations that something be changed in that project, they change it, right? Then the next week we all come back and at least one councilman who was fitness team. No, no, they're good with this. They'll be fine. And then guess what happens? Every time they come in, it's still not good enough. They want because at the end of the day, the answer is they just don't want it. And no matter how many changes they make to that plan, it's never going to be good enough for the people who keep opposing it until they say nothing's going to go there. Just build it our two. And then every time the guy they're not going to build it,

every time they say they're going to make this change and they agree to it and the guide redraws the plan, they and say, "Well, we're on the 18th rendition. When's he going to pick one?" 15 of them result of requests that they made. And it's and unfortunately it hasn't been until the last little bit of time because I'm on East River up against that development. It's always been Timberlink, Timberlink, Timberlink. Never East River. They just started just sneaking. Oh yeah. East River too. They were in a little in the beginning. Jennifer Chin and some other

they were there but when they get the problem I think what happened they were there in the beginning when there was talk at the bottom of the corridor in the buffer and the East River folks were well if they get it why not us. Yeah. And then it disappeared from the plan, right?

And we made the same lot sizes along the lot sizes along East River to be picked up too. So they'd be further from the house. And I think now that there is talks of there being a buffer again or a wildlife corridor, whatever you want. My guess is we're going to start hearing from, you know, we town board says, "Yeah, that sounds good." We're going to start hearing from the East River folks saying, "Well, wait a minute. Why them and not us?" And I think the answer originally was, "Well, there's a big elevation change there and some other stuff. Yeah, there's a ravine but a big ditch right five years it's been the part that I wanted is we're talking about a PDD was changed and when a PDD is changed it should come back to the top

because I didn't want to go that's currently going on there now has been changed so the flag I'm trying to throw up is if that's been changed and our policy is supposed to be needs to come back to the planning board if a PD has changed that was the question I was asking um Dave I guess there's so the question is But what what will be voted on and will it actually I guess right now we're back to wildlife corridor. I don't remember which one last one that you guys saw and approved as far as the town board saying okay they've already approved a site plan but we're going to go above and beyond and add an additional condition saying that if it's not built in three years it's out. That piece of it alone I don't think is a I'll give you that. That's a question for us not for you. I'll give you that.

But I guess you're right. I have to figure out and frankly I don't know if I'm for the wildlife corp. So I to that extent it gets voted on. Maybe it's the same one that you guys have Tom there there already is a wildlife corridor. I got a 200 foot ravine behind me that for Timberlake. Yeah, but that's the wildlife corridor. I mean so what the the deer is only going to walk back and forth behind Timberlake and not behind me. You [clears throat] know what I'm saying? like a wildlife corridor I don't think means a wildlife corridor perimeter program. Do you know what I'm saying? 50 or 15, right?

Well, they're up to 120, but they're back to the 120 number. Well, they were 120, then they agreed to 70, then now it now it's 40 and the Timberlink folks want it going back to the 120. Wait, we got Tom, can I can I just request something from you as our as our are you going to be our liaison next year? Okay. Can I just request something from you that would you please as our liaison? Please consider our our thoughts [snorts] here to have this stuff sent back to us. You and everyone. Okay. Because you are not the only that. Okay. Well,

I think highlights the fact my my concern is right here. This group I don't know all the other boards, but I'm just asking please please think about us. Great. Training Kristen, we want item before that. It's the board decide on who's going to be on this board going forward. Otherwise, this is my last meeting. No, I think didn't you say you wanted to reup? Just because I want to doesn't mean that they Oh, no. We we already told uh I already told uh Arlene we did this with Arlene that you were you you said you wanted to re email that came out later asking if you all were still interested but only if your term was up.

Yeah. So if your I didn't respond. Let us know if you're still Does everybody want to stay on? Yes. Yeah. But it's only meaningful like they said for the people whose terms are up. Well anybody doesn't want to be on that. So Kristen, please send a letter to town board that Norm would like to reup. You don't have to. I'll you're up. You're telling me now that you want me. You're replied some time ago. Okay. Yeah, you'll be alternate guys. Yeah. You guys want to stay? Scott, you want to stay? And the two alternate fellows are staying. Okay. I don't need to send a letter on. No. No. But he's going to take care of it. Move him to a journ. Are we going to do that?

Oh, that's motion to adjourn.