City Council - Regular Meeting

to have the city. Welcome everyone. Welcome to the Centerville City Council this evening. Tonight we have a special uh presentation to our first responders which we're looking forward to. Uh like I said, this is the Centerville City Council being held here on December 16th at 7:00. We just want to do a roll call first and then we'll go into uh our special presentation. U so let's do a roll call to make sure we can conduct business tonight. Starting with Councilwoman Mikum. Mikum present. Summer Hayes present. Hayman present. Hurst present.

Plumber present. Thank you. All five uh city council people are present. We thank the public that's here. We thank staff that's here. Uh we're going to change up a little bit. We're going to move our leg our legislative uh thought from Councilman Summer Hayes to after the the presentation and also our open session. So, uh I will begin with uh a word of prayer. Our heavenly father, we're very grateful this night that we are able to gather as citizens uh of Centerville uh to celebrate this season, to celebrate the first responders, and to the b do the business of the city. We ask that thou may we may have thy guidance with us, that we may be civil in our discourse, that uh we may uh honor and recognize each other as children of thee. We're grateful for all that we are blessed with in our lives, and we're thankful for these first responders that we get to honor tonight. We're thankful for uh all our residents of our city and our staff that uh support what takes place here. And this we say in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ. Amen.

All right. So, uh we will now start uh with uh a flag ceremony.

All rise. presents.

Please join me in the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Forward. You can be seated. I'm going come down here because we're also going to have our fire chief and uh uh our fire chief came, didn't he? There he is.

All right. Are you going to present or is our battalion chief Gregory still going to present? I'm happy to say a few words about the professional.

Okay, great. I I will begin. Uh and then we will have some remarks from uh Chief Stewart uh from our fire chief and then remarks from uh Chief Aerson, our police chief. And then we will have some gifts to the first responders in the their their families uh presented by the Center for Rotary Club representative Daryl Olsen. We thank the thank the area merchants for the gifts and we thank of course the church Jesus Christ where the saints church communication council that's here tonight John Hollingsson his wife Sally and the princes and is there any of your other group that's here as well too uh they're the ones that are so great at putting this together uh we've uh 3 four years ago we had this our 4th of July and then on 911 uh we had one morning ceremony here a couple years ago around 9/11 and and uh the fire and the police went out to our elementary and junior high and high schools as well too. I just want to uh give them my thanks. Um during my time as mayor, I've had the opportunity to uh be involved with uh when Chief Child retire uh retired and in hiring Chief Aerson uh along with some of the some of the staff and council and uh we went through a process uh of of of putting that the open to everyone, but Chief Aerson uh did a great job and was promoted and he's been our chief now for what are we looking at here chief about a year and a half aren't we?

Um and so uh we we thank him and we thank all his officers for their service. I tried to this year the first of the year I sat down with Chief Aerson and and uh we talked about some things that are taking place within the department. Um, I have had had the opportunity to go out uh on a a ride along uh with with one of our officers and that's always a a great experience. Uh, and I've learned so much that way as well, too. Um, uh, then with Chief Stewart, uh, I was the chair of the fire board. The fire board is made up of the the five mayors and and a county commissioner that makes up the fire board. And uh when when Chief Stone resigned uh here the year before last, I had the opportunity to head up that that board that uh interviewed candidates uh for the fire chief. and we were pleased that Chief Stewart came through the ranks and um uh that uh he was he was promoted and he's doing a great job as well too. So monthly I get to meet to fireboard meetings. We just met last night with him. It's it's fun to get around to uh the various fire stations. When I was fire board I got uh chairman I got around to the five stations and each station's unique in what they do. Um, the one thing I haven't done yet is uh I I had I've had a lunch with them, but uh haven't stayed overnight. I don't know whether I want to tackle that or not. They're laughing here cuz you know they're they're probably looking forward to that. They can pull some pull some boy scout pranks on me or something, you know, but

we don't have a bed that

Well, well said she. So, so my thanks go out to all of them as well too. I love being over at Dicks uh when they come to do their grocery shopping and uh uh chatting with them in Dicks and uh and seeing them do their grocery shopping. So, if you've never had the opportunity, get to one of our uh have a tour of our police department. Uh go go tour one of the firehouses. They're very welcoming about doing that. And we just obviously we're all grateful uh for the service that they render uh to the community and knowing that they're there and uh they're available. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And uh we'll turn it over to the the to the chiefs. Chief Stewart, you join me in front, please. Thank you, me, mayor and council for this opportunity. Thank you, John Hollings head for uh inviting us here tonight. Uh I just want to say I wasn't sure that I was going to be able to make it here tonight, so I rushed my other commitments so I could be able to run over here. And Chief Battalian Chief Gregory is relieved that he's not standing here giving this speech right now. But I just want to say a little something about these professionals that stand in front of you. Uh starting on the far end, that's BJ Davis. He's the engineer. He drives the fire engine. James Call is a paramedic for us. Uh Scott Breth is a EMT firefighter with us. Uh Captain Jordan Hmel, Centerville resident, uh is a captain on the ship today. Uh Battalion Chief Gregory also Centerville resident here. uh that he's over all five stations and uh he wanted to join us here tonight to give this

speech. But um like I said, these uh gentlemen that standing up here are truly professionals. They're highly certified uh to serve this community. And that's the only reason this fire service exists is to serve the community and we we aim to do so every day with our mission statement of protecting life, preserving property, and exceeding the expectations of those we serve. Um so we're honored to be here tonight. I've seen each of these gentlemen in uh numerous situations involving stressful emergencies or strenuating circumstances or or difficult circumstances. You know, we may be called to, you know, climb up Dual Creek and rescue somebody or it might be the person wedged between the bathtub and the toilet that we're helping get out of their their emergency situation. And I don't usually see these gentlemen uncomfortable unless we're in this situation where they're being thanked and appreciated. They are very uncomfortable with that. U because they'll tell you they're just doing their job. That's what you pay them for. That's what tax dollars goes for is for this service. We're just doing our job. But that's not entirely the case. They're here serving, doing it professionally every single day and on every single call that they get called to. So on behalf of South Davis Metro Fire, I thank them and uh I present present them to you. Just look at their uncomfortable faces. One of these.

Thank you.

The other chief. Chief. The other chief. That's what I call. Thank you. Yeah, I don't mind it at all being the other chief. All right. Hey, central officers, you come on down. Look at these guys.

Okay, real quick. So we uh uh officer Justin Seir, Sergeant Shamik Williams, uh Officer Stson Ryan, not Ryan Stson, but Stson Ryan, Sergeant Jeremy Brown, Sergeant Davis, and Lieutenant Will Barnes, and I'm uh Chief Alan Aerson. And we have 12 other officers who were not able to join us today um because some of them are, you know, they're all home or they're some of them are sleeping. Um that's uh one of the drawbacks of running a 247 service. Uh we have a 20man department here. And um as as a department today I was I was kind of prepping for our new councilman orientation that's happening tomorrow with with the with Rick Banger here. And so I was kind of going through some of our stuff as a department kind of highlighting getting ready to present to him. And I was blown away by the sheer number of uh subject matter experts we have in our department in all sorts of areas. Um and they spend a lot of time training and honing their skills a lot of the time on their personal you know personal time. Um you know we usually do this event right around September 11th on around and it's kind of it's a great time. time is a great time to remember um our first responders. But what I love about Centerville is it's not just September 11th when um we as a community recognize our first responders. It's it's year round and it can be December and we're we're recognizing them. Yeah, law enforcement changed uh not for the good, not for the better in the 2020 with George Floyd and some of the other events that happened and um law enforcement has definitely nationwide seen a they've had a struggle maintaining relationships with communities and I think it's starting to get better, but but we did not see that shift in in

Centerville during 2020. In fact, a lot of times we we saw the exact opposites when we saw we saw a lot of citizens come out of their way, let us know that we we still have your back is what we what we heard. And we we truly appreciate that as as as your first responders. And uh we're definitely here and very happy to have our second responders here joining us here today, too. Okay. Um, do we do we do do gifts from here? Absolutely.

Do we get some too We got one for you too.

Yeah, if we have the fire guys come up back up again or maybe we take a picture real quick. But uh this is Daryl Olsen from uh the Central Farmington Rotary and the Rotary has donated funds to help uh you know to cover the cover the cost of these these uh gifts. You want the fire guys up here too, Chief?

Yeah, fire. Come on back up. Chief Stewart's here as well. already tell us. Well, I was selected to represent uh our Rotary Club here this evening and we're just grateful and and want to say thank you as well and and as part of that we were able to contribute $1,000 towards the the gifts and recognition of our first responders. So, I was glad to be a part of it.

Thank you. Um, once again, I'm all right. You have a second.

Come on up. Well, we're going to have uh welcome up our the church Jesus Christ of Saint Church communication council rep uh my good friend John Prince here. So, come on up. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here tonight with you and particularly with our first responders that we're so grateful for and I'm glad to hear that they recognized or appreciated not only 911 time year round. We just want to tell you a little bit about these gifts. Pardon me. It's a beautiful waterproof bag with a waterproof seal inside of it that can be removed so they can just be used for packing or or other different purposes. But there's inside there is a a blanket and a loaf of bread and a goodies bag, a bunch of different assorted goodies. And then there's non-wolf on each one of them. And I would like to be the first to express our appreciation for local merchants in our entire area here. Diane and I and a number of other people went out talking to them, soliciting, and they were when they learned what the purpose was and who these gifts were going to, they were very generous and very kind. So, we got well over $3,000 of gift cards that are all spread out amongst these different gifts for them, the the officers, and their families to enjoy. And please know how much we do appreciate that you have our back and we hope you feel like you have our support as well and express our gratitude to each one of you. Thank you so much. This guy is Rob Prince, not John Prince. Not only is there a John Hollings head, but he has a son named John that my son used to hang out with. So every now and then I find myself calling him John, but raw prince.

Well, let's give a thank you to the princes and the holly and their whole and uh it sounds like there's a rivalry first responder, second responder. You guys should It's kind of like BYU Utah. Choose whether you're BYU or whether you're Utah. Okay. So, thanks again. Thank you. Wonderful evening. Did we get Did we get everything, John? All set. Thank you.

All right. taste. That's always neat to do. Uh tonight we have a legislative thought from Councilman Summer Hayes and this is uh his last meeting. So, we're looking forward to what what his thought may be tonight. Hope hopefully it's not too too bad a roasting, but thoughts or something. I think that was exactly a long time ago.

So, you have the floor. Well, thank you, mayor. Um,

definitely mixed feelings uh this evening. Um I remember two years ago about this time when Bill uh was uh leaving and and he gave a little bit of thoughts and people asked him do you enjoy work being on council and he you know I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the exact quote but it was something like I don't know if enjoy is the right word. Um but I will say that there have been a lot of laughs that we share as council and staff. um we have some fun. We uh maybe get frustrated with each other or frustrated with um policy decisions we have. I find it rewarding. It's challenging. I'm not loud enough. Thank you. Um but I think it's all of those ad adjectives mixed all into one. Um, I think I share same sentiments that after city council meetings, you come home at night, you've done almost five plus hours in on some occasions and your mind will just not stop. And so there's a lot of sleepless nights because you want to make the right decisions. You're read over things. You want to just do what's good uh for the community. Um uh I'm just feel like it's a huge honor and privilege that I was able to take an oath of office to be part of crafting policy to do homework to do research to be able to make decisions on percentage basis. Very few individuals have this opportunity. Um some seek it out. I I didn't seek it out. I just people wanted me to do it and I don't know. I just ended up here. So, um I think also what I really wanted to highlight tonight. Oh gosh. Um are the relationships um that I have been able to um have

because of uh this city council position. Um I've been able to serve on the South Davis Rec Center uh uh district board. Um I've served on our trails committee as the council liaison. obviously on staff and um uh our the staff member there obviously with council and uh just a staff um I think the unexpected uh not necessarily that I didn't expect friendships but I uh I feel just like great friendships with every member of our staff and I just think so highly of each one of you. I think you are so amazing in every position that you are in. Um, so I think about Bruce and the parks committee and just the quiet work that they do. And Haley, you were you were at the recck district before even coming here. And we have Chief Aerson who I was privileged to be part of that hiring process and to see what goes into that. And obviously we have uh the rest of our officers. I was able to serve with Dave on our tattoo committee and and he's been fortunate enough or my wife was fortunate enough to work with him on our Fourth of July committee. Just so great. And have Will as our lieutenant. Um Mike, I can't wait to go have rolls at Mike's newly remodeled kitchen house. And our whole public works staff. Dave Walker will live in infamy as our wonderful correspondent videographer at the Church. Well, and we have such an amazing staff on our water with uh Steve Hunt, our drainage with Cameron, in our streets with Mark. Um Kevin Campbell is just so quiet and yet he secures us million, I'm not exaggerating, millions of dollars of grant money that saves us as a community um through his efforts. Uh I was so impressed as a council

member. I'm a I'm a finance nerd. I'm a numbers junkie. And when we went through our first budget process and as we went through four different budget processes, I can't speak highly enough of our uh finance staff and the way that they handle things. Nate is just you're you're awesome, Nate. Just fantastic. Um I was able to be a part of the process of hiring Mike Egget. Uh we went through a lot of rounds and we it was a challenging process. We just never felt settled. And for me, the hiring of Mike Egget, who's not here tonight, was just, I think, a fantastic hire. And I just so excited for his future. Jennifer, Lisa, I mean, Lisa, I I I've been with you probably the longest cuz I served on planning commission three years prior to being on city council. And what a great mentor you've been to me. Really, I just you're so great. and uh Brent and Bryce, like to be able to pick up a phone call and always just think out loud and think openly, it's just a a true blessing. Um you as staff may receive more calls or interactions with our city members than even frankly we do because we live in our neighborhoods and yes, we have relationships outside, but you're the ones taking phone calls. you're the one out in the streets or in the parks or doing police duty. Um, and you're our deep connection. So, when you bring uh agenda items to us, I feel like those are things that make our community great. And, and I really, really view that. And I think of what it would be without these amazing staff members. And uh I think I shared this a year ago, so forgive me if I'm uh getting old and repeating myself, but it's the uh the line from It's a Wonderful Life. It's a

great uh time of year to to see that when I'm maybe an old soul, but I love that movie. And Clarence the angel says, "Strange, isn't it? That each person's life touches so many other lives. When that person isn't around, it leaves an awful hole, doesn't it? And I'm glad we don't have holes here in Centerville because of that. You live, you work in a community that has a high level of expectation in terms of service while doing so at a very lowest cost possible. And uh Brad said, "Hey, we're here to please everyone." You know, it's tongue and cheek, but um you do an amazing job at that. So that is my thought. It's really mayor just um grateful for the opportunity to serve um grateful to be a part of a great city, rub shoulders with amazing people uh and fellow council members and uh have great mentors. So that's my thought.

Thank you. Let's give him the round of hats. So, I'll uh I'll I'll miss Councilman Summer Hayes. And the first thing I'll back up his statement. He did not seek this out. I twisted his arm to be on planning commission realizing that Mayor Cutler before me twisted his arm many times as well too. So, uh but once he was in uh he threw his all into it and uh was an amazing job. The second thing is that first uh budget session when he came with his budget book all marked up, him being a finance nerd and me uh being a CPA, I thought I have to step up my game. This guy is more prepared and have looked looked harder over this than I have. And so I'm serious when I say that. So he inspired me uh to dig even deeper because you you always came prepared. not only that uh but to all our meetings. Um so thank you. And then of course the third thing and I just spoke to with him today is uh uh he and uh a couple of others their work on uh the rec center that uh was seriously having some financial trouble and uh I knew it was uh four years ago I was going to appoint myself for Spencer and I just felt that he would be better and him working with a couple of other uh uh uh members of of that committee uh have done a wonderful job there. That's just three little things besides obviously uh I didn't even know Spencer Summer Hayes uh before I I called to ask him to serve and um now I'm getting how long were you planning commission? Couple

three years. So now now se seven years or so. Uh seems like uh I've known him my whole life. So um so so thank you. Thank you. Thank you from Yeah. So anyway, you have your chance tonight to put your last stamp on everything. You make all the and Mor we'll have a going away or a thank you meeting in January. So you're all welcome to attend that.

We will. So So you guys have something to live up to budget session wise, you know. So, I stay challenged. Okay. So, thank you. All right. Uh, while Brent moves that over, uh, so we can do our next portion. Uh, we jumped around a little bit, so I don't want to miss anything. So, yeah, I think we're good. So, now we are at the open session part and that's why Brad's moving that over. If any member of the uh who is uh attending tonight wants to uh say a a thing or two, we ask you to keep your comments to to two to three minutes. Um we do not have uh um uh yeah, it looks like anything's fair game. Uh just like I say, keep your comments two or three minutes. Um, we do have some people here I know for other things uh on our agenda like the gun range lease agreement we're going to be talking about and um uh but we we don't have any public hearing uh issues. So, I'm not going to tell you to hold your your comments up for any public hearing issues. So, if there's anything that anybody wants to say, please come up and just identify uh yourself and where you're from and try and keep your comments to a couple minutes. And sorry, please speak loudly because our microphone is not working today.

Good evening, mayor, city council members. My name is John. Pleasure to be here with you this evening. Um, I'm a resident of West Point and the reason why I'm here is I'm seeking your support as the next Davis County Sheriff. Uh, I lived in Davis County for over 25 years of my life. I lived outside the state, three different states. I've lived outside this country and there's nowhere else I'd rather be to raise my kids. Uh my four children have been married 15 years and this is the place that I love and there's something special about. The more I leave this country and the state, the more I want to be back here. My concern is preserving that future as we face many challenges the next day and age with cyber crime with AI and with uh the drastic advancement we are seeing. I have the absolute privilege of being able to serve at the city level as a part-time firefighter paramedic at North Davis Fire full-time with the sheriff's office and internal affairs investigator and within the Utah National Guard where I spent 14 years currently intelligence officer with them and I do hold this officer clearance. As I said, I do love this this profession. I love working in public service and I love being able to cha be challenged and be able to find issues and problems that we need to fix. I believe in small government efficiency and using the taxpayer dollars to the best amount possible. I know that that is one of the big concerns recently. My main key points is one protecting our kids and seeing that they have a good prosperous future. My second one is making sure that we we stay hard on real crime and that we don't allow provide allowance uh to criminals within our society. My third one is upholding and supporting the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of Utah, which I have sworn an oath about seven times throughout my careers um in the various careers that I have. And the last one but not least is working with other elected officials within government because I believe that the sheriff's office and no one entity has all the right answers that we need to be able to depend on each other and to be able to have good communication and collaborative efforts to be able to

address all the problems that we're facing because there's no silver bullet to be able to address and complete these. I've been going around all the city councils within Davis County meeting with all the mayors, meeting with all the city council members, all the state representatives, all the police chiefs, as many as I can meet with. and I'm not stopping anywhere soon. I understand that these relationships are really what's going to solve the problems of tomorrow. But I thank you for your time. Have a good evening. John, um if you if I may, could I just leave a few cards and you guys can pass it around. Please feel free to reach out to me. More than happy to talk with any of them. Thank you.

Thank you, John. Chief told me he'd be coming tonight. We've had people run in the past do that. If for for those of you who don't know um the legislature two years ago moved up the filing period from March to January. So that first few days of January is when all our candidates will be filing for elections next year. That would be county candidates uh and state candidates. Uh and so that filing's coming up and um sounds like uh uh we're going to see John going in putting his name down uh as one of those candidates. So, so thank you. I love your mayor. Don't tell him, but he might might be my favorite, but from your city, but uh so, uh, West Point's a great community. So, anybody else on the open session? Okay. If not, we will move on. Uh, we did the first responders. Let's go to our fiscal year 2025 audit report. So, I know that I can see some other finance people here. So, this will be right up your geek street with me as well too, our audit report. So, uh this is Nate, our finance director. Nate, turn it over to you.

Thank you, mayor, and good evening. Uh as mayor mentioned, we have our presentation of our uh 20 fc year 2025 auditors report as well as our active financial report. Um this is a long process. Uh we started probably officially kicked off on July 1st when we had auditors come out and work with the water department on an inventory audit. Um and this compiling this report as you can tell by its size uh is a big team effort. It involves every department in the city and we have a great team here and they did a great job in helping us get the information to keep our information uh accurate. Um we have uh Martha Hayes from Larsson and Company who are our independent auditors uh here to present uh their report. Um, before she does, I just want to let you know that we uh did have a presentation uh from Larsson Company with our audit committee last week and they unanimously um recommended acceptance of the APER and the uh financial report. Um and lastly, I want to also recognize we have Marcus Arbuckle here uh with Kington Christensen. uh and he does a lot of work compiling these this financial report uh which is a ton of work and so we thank him and his staff and uh and again we thank the staff at Larsson & Company. They're great to work with uh and they do a great job. Um so with that I'll turn the time over to Marco.

Good evening. So, I'll go through the auditor's report and um our independent audits report and also our reports on internal control and compliance. Um so, I won't be going through all the numbers. Um I'm sorry if you guys finance guys are really sad about that. Um but we probably don't want to spend that much time. Um we have a packet. Yes, we have it in our information.

All right. So um we have audited the financial statements of Centerville City as of June 30th, 2025 and in our opinion the financial statements are fairly presented in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. So this is a clean or unmodified opinion. We are able to issue this opinion because we comply with the auditing standards generally accepted in the United States of America and government auditing standards. Those standards require that we are independent of Centerville City and meet other ethical responsibilities and obtain sufficient appropriate audit events upon which to base our audit opinions. The financial statements are the responsibility of Centerville City's management and they are responsible for preparing the financial statements in according in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles and for designing, implementing and maintaining internal control to ensure the financial statements are premateral statement whether due to error or fraud. Management is also responsible for assessing Centerville City's ability to continue as a going concern within 12 months from the date the financial statements uh from our a financial statement report. As auditors, our objective is to obtain reasonable assurance about whether the financial statements are free from material statement whether due to error or fraud and to issue an opinion. Um reasonable assurance is a high level assurance but not absolute assurance. and therefore is not a guarantee that an audit conducted in accordance with generally accepted auditing standards and government auditing standards will always detect a material misstatement when it exists. In performing our audit, we exercise professional judgment and maintain professional skepticism. We do a risk assessment to identify the areas where we feel the greater likelihood for material misstatement to

occur whether due to error or fraud. Um those areas include improper revenue recognition um cash dispersements um because you are dispersing public funds and um management's overhead of control. Um we also gain an understanding of internal control in order to design our audit procedures but not to give an opinion on internal control and we evaluate the appropriateness of accounting principles and the significant accounting estimates and we review management's assessment of going concern. Um as you're aware in the cafer there is a lot of information um required supplementary information could be including the MDNA and other schedules and we do not issue an opinion on those schedules. So any questions on our opinion on the financial statements. All right. Um, as I noted earlier, we also um look at internal control to design our audit procedures. If there were any findings in internal control that we found as a result of our AR procedures that we consider to be significant deficiencies or material weaknesses, we need to make you aware of those. We are pleased to report that we did not find any deficiencies in internal control that we consider to be material weaknesses. Um the results of our test of compliance also um disclose no instances of non-compliance that need to be reported to you. In addition, we do um test of compliance with state compliance requirements. Um there are compliance requirements that we test annually and ones that we test every three years. And we just did the annual procedures this year and those um include compliance requirements regarding budgetary compliance, fund

balance, justice court restricted taxes and related revenues, fraud, risk assessment, and government fees. And a result of those test um disclosed no instances of non-compliance. Um and finally um we had no difficulties that we encountered during our audit. Um we appreciate the finance team um and also Kennington and Associates um for the preparation of the caffer. Um all the proposed in uh entries were approved by management. um we didn't have any dis disagreements with management and we have nothing else to report um with those charged with government. So any questions for me?

Can you just explain Marsha for you or Marcus for council? They probably heard it before, maybe not all of them or or public. And I I don't know that we had any this year, but in addition to your regular audit, there's a single audit as well, too. Uh that can't may or may not apply. Is that correct? Right. So, there was not a single audit this year. Um a single audit is required if you have if you expend government funds over uh $750,000 during the year. Um, so if you have like um state grants, those are not required. There are federal grants, right? So there was no single audit that was required this year. I

think we had one last year, the year before or something like that, didn't we, Brent? But so we'll more likely have one next year with the Oakidge tank. Yeah. With the Oakidge tank going on the hill that we got federal funds that we will probably spend over 750,000. Yeah. And that going into that reservoir. Um, and that increased up to a million dollars. The threshold now is a million dollars. Yeah. So, yeah. Other questions? Do we need approval or is the audit committee approval enough or do we do an approval from uh I think we should have an acceptance of this audit as well?

Yeah, I think it'd be good from council. So, if no questions, do I have a uh somebody's want to put a motion? I'll make a motion to accept the uh fiscal year 2025 audit. Second. A motion to second. All in favor? I. I.

I. Oh, I'm not voting. Nay. I got I got to vote last week though because I'm a member of the audit committee. So, I got to approve the audit, too. So, thank you. Thank you. And thank you, Marcus, uh, for being here as well, too. Okay. Uh, let's pop on down to our annual meeting schedule for next year. Uh, it's resolution 2025-20. Uh, Jennifer's throwing this together for us. Jennifer, you want to talk to us about uh your thought process and what you pulled together here? Yeah, I thought long and hard about which dates we should hold city council on. First and third and you didn't change it for the first and third Tuesday.

No, we're still first and third Tuesday through 2026. and third. Sorry. Um the only the only change is November 4th which is pushed to the following Wednesday for election day as we usually do. Um but besides that, yeah, pretty straightforward. So we just need to adopt this. Obviously throughout the year sometimes meetings get cancelled or rescheduled for various reasons, but this at least gives us a baseline for the year going forward. So, so, so you found that the first and third Tuesday didn't disturb you and Cole's date night then. So, you're you're good. Okay. Okay. You see it there in front of the dates? Uh, do we have a motion to approve that uh resolution?

I really don't want to be I am I am looking I know she's looking I'm sure Robin could make a motion. We're going to celebrate you. Yeah, we are. Okay. Well, I'll make a motion that we approve the 2026 meeting schedule. I'll second it. All right. That means you have to attend the meetings remotely. Just watch YouTube 1.5. There you go. All in favor? I I

opposed. Thank you. Okay, let's go to item number two on our business. Uh this is the amended restated gun range lease agreement uh with the Centerville Arms Association. And I know that's why we have some of you here tonight. We have uh representatives from the set of arms and we also have our chief of police here and it looks like uh they're going to come up together to add to what you might have in your packet. So, good evening. My name is Val Steed. I am a Centerville resident of over 40 years and also a Centerville Small Arms Association member of over 15 years. It's a pleasure to greet you this evening and talk about a few issues. council. Um, Chief, we've worked with Chief, I got to tell you, uh, we have been thrilled with, uh, the discourse we've had with both, uh, Chief Aerson and also with the Sanville Police, everyone that we've worked with. Uh, you need to state that upfront. As well as also saying, Spencer, we're going to miss you seriously. Um, thanks for all your help and tough questions. We we had to address a number of very, very tough issues. I think we got through those pretty good and I appreciate his uh support and also his uh like issues cuz those are legit. So um management of cable small arms right now was formed uh kind of reorganized about 10 months ago. So the group that we have here and some others are kind of managing things moving things forward about 10 months ago. At that time we were asked by the city to do a number of things. item number one so that we have uh the schedule so that we can share the common schedule with the police department which I believe we've solved that now we have a Google shared calendar all working well there now and I'm thrilled that some of our members are very good at that kind of technology

and help us out a lot we also um were asked to locate a runner a water runoff analysis report which I don't believe we found yet I don't know if Brad or anybody's seen anything there. Um we're still looking for that particular runoff analysis reports done about a year ago. We'd also um looked into we were asked to get someone to come and give us a remuneration remuneration cost estimate for the range if it was to be used for another type of process which we have done. City's received that report. I believe that's something that we have now accomplished. We were also asked to look into getting a $3 million liability policy for the range. And that's where we'd like to start a little bit of our discussion this evening. I'd like to bring up the honorable Judge Clay Stuki and have him talk to you for a few minutes. He has more experience in this than I do. if I may give you just a bit of a background because because I'm going to offer a little bit of an expert opinion that I hope you'll accept as an expert opinion, but I I probably need to lay some foundation for that first. Uh even though most of my professional career has been practicing law, I have also owned and operated several large gun stores. And when I practice law, I was the attorney for many of the bigger uh more developed ranges in Utah. So I I've had a a broad uh legal experience and then operating experience on gun range. Right now I'm I'm a principal partner that owns four commercial gun ranges, indoor gun ranges in in Utah. Those four gun ranges have four separate landlords,

each with a uh very serious pecuniary interest, of course, in making sure that they're covered with with liability. And if if I can also convince you that the shooters we have at Centerville Small Arms are sort of the top of the pyramid, they're very they're very experienced shooters, very safe shooters. where the commercial gun ranges that we operate, we're open to the public and we are anywhere from the very experienced shooter to somebody that has no idea what they're doing. Uh hardly knows which end of the gun the bullets come out of. So, uh, the the risk up at the Centerville small arms gun range is is actually very low cuz you have experienced shooters running the range at all times and and they go through some training before you can even be a member and go up there and shoot unlike the public ranges that we operate. The the point I want to make is with all the gun ranges that I've been legal counsel for, uh, legal counsel for the owners of the gun range and the gun ranges that I own, I started Impact up in Ogden, if you're familiar with that, Impact Arms, that indoor gun range. I was the founder of that and got that up and going. Uh, and then have consulted or been the attorney for many others. And with the four I own now, we have never had to go higher than than 1 million, 2 million. Uh, and those, you know, those are people that don't want to lose their buildings that were running uh from them. So, the the the expert opinion I would profer to you is I 3 million is is the very top of what anybody in Utah would expect for their commercial government, I think. And so I'm hoping I can convince you that we

don't need to spend even more money on on a gun range. And of all the gun ranges in the state is one of the lower risk ones. Uh with with the lower risk, it shouldn't have to have the highest liability policy in the state of Utah. So that's that's a little piece I could bring to this. Is there anything else? No. Okay. Thank you. Thanks so much for for listening to that. So Mr. May question go ahead if I can address that. So sure.

We're doing this a little backwards. Usually we would present, you know, chief would present kind of the agreement here and and then get comment from from your group. So we're going a little backwards and but since we started that way, I do want to address a little bit of that insurance and the argument for here is ademnifying the city, right? So the most important thing here is not necessarily what's a reasonable amount. The the issue here is the city. So we have governmental immunity caps and those governmental immunity caps is 997,000 for a single case and just over I think 3.6 million for an aggregate. So 1 million4 million is where we really need to be to indemnify the city wholly. If if there is a claim above the 12 million that puts the Centerville taxpayers on the hook for that amount above that. And if there's a larger lawsuit, then we're part of that larger lawsuit. So it's not about whether it's reasonable or or costly. It's about demnifying the city, the taxpayers, the central city residents for any negligence that might occur based on the use from the center of small arms. So it's not again not asking for more because we feel it needs to be covered, but we do need to demify the city from the actions of the center of small arms. you could have the the best shooters up there, but but the taxpayers really need that protection indemnified from. That's where it comes down to. So, from from a personal um comparable, I guess from my professional life, our standard lease forms in our commercial real estate are two and five. And when you're talking about governmental property versus private property, those are two different things, right? So we have governmental um that we have to protect and and generally government uh when there's lawsuits occur against the government is generally higher than that that occurs against the private sector. And so we do need a demnify.

That's a basic requirement at least my recommendation. Um is to make sure we identify all center city residents from any negligence that occurs on the range. And and so leaving that gap of of 2 million to 5 million and you get a lawsuit 3 or 4 million then the taxpayers are paying that1 to $2 million and and that's for something that senator small arms association members can you know participate in. So so council keep your if you have questions on that keep your questions from that before we go back to Mr. D I want the chief uh to go through what you wanted to go through as well too, right? Uh because you you came up obviously to to to just to to say something as well. So

I just hope to catch you guys back up to speed like we previously had a work session on this where we talked about the relationship between between Central City, Central Police Department and the Small Arms Association. Um, and at that time we got we got direction from the council to work out a lease agreement with with the small arms. So, we've been working towards that. And so, we've had meetings with uh with them. We've had meetings with the trails committee, the small arms, and um and and so we bring to you a an amended lease agreement. So basically the lease grant we started in 2013 and that that one actually ends um December 31st. So here in a couple weeks and so um tonight we would like to work through this lease. If not then we look at other options because one way or another we we need to do something before the end of this month. And so, um, some of the major changes, uh, we've already talked about insurance. The liability limits are going up. And so, right now, we're we're looking at, uh, um, I think we're asking two per incident for the aggregate. In July, that's going to go up to 25, right? Yeah. So, so currently I've worked with Irma, Dave Peterson, the executive director, to get some advice on the insurance side. And so currently really the limits are 1 and four. I believe it's you know these are approximate numbers but 3.6 million is the aggregate governmental immunity 991,000 or so for the single. So really as of right now it's 1 and4 beginning July 1st the single goes up above a million and uh the aggregate will go up above 4 million which then requires that insurance to go from 2 million to 5 million. Um again,

if you can find a policy that's 1.1 million or 1.2 million, you won't find that unfortunately. Usually doing a million dollar aggre um increments. So, but that is the recommendation of uh Dave Peterson, our Irma, who you know handles our risk, our umbrella insurance that we request on this. Okay. So I I wonder in this current the red line version here where we talk about it being at 2 million for one person right now and four in the aggregate is what we're is that what we're asking for starting right now and then going to 25. Yeah. So we could go 14 for the first 6 months but we just have a six-month notification to uh spend tomorrow it's going to be 25 and July 1. So you can go 14

and it's July 1st 2026. Correct. The red line says 2025. So, and then also there's another thing that I'm a little bit confused on because down below, um it's like the very last thing where it talks about the two, it drops back to four when it says um the city shall give a six-month written notice to the association of any increase in insurance limits that exceeds the July 1st, 2026 limits of 2 million from one person in an occurrence. And it should be 5 million, I believe, in July. So it says four on. So just if Lisa will just make sure that those numbers all the consistency is what

Yeah. I'm just Yeah, there's just a couple little typos. Thank you. And then um then I I think we'd like to just kind of work through some of these the overall make maybe changes and I I know the association has some more comments to make towards um towards the towards the insurance and that stuff. So maybe we can hold off to the end and we'll we'll we'll tackle it then. Is that okay? That work? I I I guess we've still got some issues that you were asking us to address, but I've got to go down through. That's fine. Let me know when we have a chance to

I think the big important thing is just kind of presenting uh this is our opportunity to present this amended lease agreement to council and then you can have that um if that's the way the mayor wants to proceed is is getting some back and forth. I mean, negotiating during a meeting is not No, we're not negotiating during the meeting, but we were asked to bring you some more information about this. Okay.

Also, yeah, excuse me. But also, I I think it's important for council to know that, you know, the whole time chief and I were talking about a lot of this stuff and then we were find we were notified last Friday that there were two things were going up on us. We had recommended we've been doing $800 a year for a remuneration fund and also we were chasing the $3 million liability which you need to understand this is a voluntary organization. We have zero budget. So when we stepped in to kind of manage this organization, we really in a way at risk of violation of our kind of our compact agreement with our members. They were sold a lifetime membership for years and now we come in and say, "Well, but you're not going to be allowed to get to the range unless you're paying us a $100 key fee," which we used to raise funds. We also did so with uh different matches and things. And then we were also asked to provide some historical data. So, let me give you some quick historical data about the range. This Mystic range is been in existence since 1965. It was actually set up between Centerville City and the Centerville Small Arms Association where the city owns the land but all the improvements and development up there is the Centerville Small Arms Association with the help of the United States government. Uh construction uh we are still responsible for maintaining the road defining the fire lines, the target pit, the park areas, fire break u maintaining uh land belongings improvements. We're also asked to do hunter safety education which we do up there as best we can. We also didn't get to this year but we do rifle sighting assistance for public as well as many of our members host groups. Uh for example, I will tell you personally that my last three times up the range have all been for different groups and we do that public service. We go up there we take different people and groups up there. adult group. The last year was adult

group, a youth group, 12, 14, and then a special group where my neighbor had visitors from Japan and that was one thing they asked to do was learn how to shoot a gun. So, I took them up there uh with my membership and spent a couple hours taking them all through different different caliber sizes and different things. So, it's important for you to understand that I understand, you know, immunity and everything. If we were an ongoing business where we had a big budget, this would be no big deal at all. But we're, like I say, not for profofit and we're really kind of scratching at funds here from our members and trying to raise funds with matches. Um, let me throw out one other legal opinion too. You familiar with Mitchell's city and he's attorney in very famous kind of gun attorney and you know, he lives here in Santael near me. He sent me some documents I might want to forward on to council, but he said that insurance rates should be a lot lower given the safety of the sport and statutory protections of the sport. He references code section 473202 which we can probably pass along to city attorney if that helps us with this because what we believe what we're trying to ask for is volunteers up here in this range trying to raise funds keep this organization going since 1965 and keep the tradition going is that we believe that the two to five we're fine with the you know re remmer re remuneration I would say that wrong renumeration fund and it's what chief and I negotiated and I hope he's okay with this but that escalating amount and I think Brad was okay so we're fine with that we that gives us time to buy go out here and get the funds that we need where year one it's a year two's 2,000 3,000 4,000 5,000 uh we can get there with matches and other funds to get there without having to go

into our members pockets what we don't know because we just learned about this last Friday is that The city's going to 2 to 5 in July. Okay, that's brand new. We don't even have a quote or anything clear. Brad's been chasing that down for a while here. So, what we would like to do is we'd like to see if we could stay with the 3 million liability. And I know you've got your other reasons and issues. Uh, I was asked to also mention a few things we've done since we've kind of reorganized. We fixed the road. We need to fix it again. We have established a key plan for our memberships and we're raising money. We've removed over 4,000 lbs of trash and debris from the range property in 2025. More than $4,000 we spent of money we tried to collect from different places to fix the road which we've got to go back and fix again. And we're looking at probably I believe Brian you think 8 to $10,000. Uh we're going to have to try to dig up somewhere to repair the road. Seriously repair the road you know to not patch things up but do it right. resurface property and we very proud to say that we have a very very strong relationship with Elan High School. In fact, we changed policy and we I think responded to all of Chief's concerns with different policy and times and things. But the big thing I think I'm really proud of is our whole leadership board the minute I mentioned it to him was that whenever Puma needs to get up there, we'll just shut down the ring. it's theirs totally and they own it for the time and period they're up there. I'm very proud of that because that makes sure that we don't have any problems between between groups. So that's what that's kind of our position. We're not trying to be contrarians, but we want to make sure the council understands this is not a really for-profit organization and we're kind of scraping through with

what we have. Suddenly now we get a big budget item in July to go to 2 to 5. Um I don't know how honestly I don't know how we'll get there right now. And I am a CPA by background as well as Mayor Clark. So we will do whatever council wants us to do. Ran, if you guys absolutely have to have two to five starting July, I think we finally got the one to three, right, Brad? We've got that covered. Yeah, we have that covered. we're ready to go January one with one of three and July we got to go two to five and that's going to be something we're have to chase and one way or another we'll get the funds but that I want council to make sure they understand that we don't think it's necessary and it will be a challenge.

So I want to ask Chief and I want to ask Brent and also Lisa a couple things. Number one is I'm getting mixed signals as far as who is using the range. Okay, Mr. Dukie said that they're all trained. It's just their small group. But so I'm thinking, okay, it's their group and the and and our officers, but now I'm hearing that uh they're taking guests up there as well, too. So it's more than their group that that Vmont High is going up there or Yeah, let me address that. View needs to go through our range to get to the V. Oh, okay. They're not I Okay.

Yeah. We're not We don't have any new Oh, they probably really need it. Gun safety class in high school would be great cuz Yeah, I didn't like shutting down the range and let it let let a teenagers run run wild up there. Give them access to that. You know, they paint the V. They do have uh events up there. They sometimes come to us and say, "I've got this person's got to get up there. I think one person actually want to remove a lot something crazy. We shut down the range for that." That's what's going on up there. Anytime we have guests, it's either central police or one of our members and somebody that they're with, a guest they're with. So, a member has to be there looking over their shoulder at all times.

Okay. And and I don't want to put we words in chief's mouth, but I know that Chief, you've always said that uh you've had a good relationship with the Centerville Small Arms up there. Okay. So I guess the question is is the insurance uh coming because it's mandatory by state law or because Irma and Dave Peterson feel this is what we should have you know or if there's something else that's that's acceptable. I mean, when I talked with Brand about our agenda on Friday, I said, "Yeah, I can't put the residents at risk, and I got to, you know, I'm thinking that that's probably the state law, but it sounds like that's possibly what our Irma rep is uh is is Dave Peterson's saying that we should have." Okay.

So, yeah, Mr. Mayor, so um so I' I've looked into the attorney who Mitch Mitchell Mitch.

Yeah. So we met with them about 8 months ago and I couldn't find necessarily any evidence that says the city because of its use means it doesn't meet the governmental immunity that it's some exception from governmental immunity. So I couldn't find anything that would say yes as a city and I don't know if Lisa looked into it too much but that would say that uh it's okay we can reduce the limits because it's an activity that's protected. I I can't find anything. So even right now with one and three being at there's a $600,000 gap between them. A $600,000 gap from one 1 million to I mean sorry 3 million to 3.6 million. That means the city and the taxpayers are on the hook for that difference of 600,000. Now let's say the lawsuit is and again I'll go back maybe there's no lawsuits that have been above 1 or 2 million but let's say it is $5 million. Since we are part of that $600,000, we're now on the hook for potentially more than that because we have contributed even a dollar. Now we're part of the entire lawsuit or claim. So there's a responsibility we have and the argument from us is to make sure we're demnified fully for any activity. Now I know guests can use the range and so we I mean they're taking on the liability from the guests. We it's it's already a risky activity that's occurring and that's when we attended the During the summer conference, we were talking about uh activities that have a greater risk and should there be a higher insurance amount of 8 million. And so that was a big thing that I was trying to find out as well is do you need higher insurance because of the potential risk involved? And the answer from from Dave is no, the 2 to 5 million is sufficient to identify the city and that's that's the recommendation to proceed with. Again, you as a council can make a decision yet. It's okay. We don't need to go to two and five, but just be aware that we are now at risk from potentially any claim to happen up on that.

So then I would then go and I know council's got some questions too. I'm all about traditions and uh keeping our city what we we have and I know that some of us here as well too. But uh if we can make it work, is there not anything? Obviously our officers are using the range. If if the Centerville small arms weren't there, uh we have to have some liabil some insurance coverage if our officers are using the range if it's going to be so can it not be a combined type of policy? Uh you know, I'm just saying how because we would have to have insurance if it was just our officers up there, right?

So our officers are covered with our insurance. We're self-insured. So keep that in mind. We are self-insured and we have umbrella insurance that we we purchase through Irma. And if I if I could interject at some point, that's the answer. Mayor, that your your question was does the law require? I can tell you emphatically, no. The law does not require the 5 million. We were what we're talking about. We're talking about is is advice. Well, I'll let you speak and you let me speak at some point. Can you interrupt me first? Mr. Hson. Okay. Brad, you're correct. Let me let me

Brad was speaking first, so let him finish and then we can come back out there. So the I I'll go to the question. The state doesn't necessarily require it. The law does not require it. There's no says you need to carry this minimum amount for this activity. But I'm just telling you the insurance that we cover and we're self-insured. That's that's the risk we take with them. So when you create a relationship with them, just understand that's you're you're putting a lot of trust and faith in in volunteers and people who want to shoot in an activity that is fairly risk high risk. um we're we're participating in sharing in that potential loss if there is a claim. So, yeah, I I'm done. Go for it. Okay. And what I I I I appreciate those words that that's that's well taken. But what I would say is all we're doing is is managing and allocating risk. And and a few points I could point out is there has never been a claim, not one, not not even for a dime. There's never been a claim on that range. There never will be a claim on that range. Everybody Everybody signs a waiver. Uh even if we bring out a guest, everybody signs a waiver that says there can be no claims made. So, so even a $1 million policy is going to is going to cover it because with that comprehensive waiver that says you can't sue the city, you can't sue Centerville Small Arms, you can't sue anybody up there in any way, that waiver is going to stand up in court every time. And if we have a million dollar uh and I know because I work with plenty of plaintiffs, law attorneys or my firm that I've managed, they're going to take that million dollar policy limit every time. So, what we're talking about is having several multiples of extra risk. And sure, if if we had unlimited money, yes, let's have a let's have a billion dollar liability policy because then then nobody's ever at risk. But I'm telling you, even at a

$1 million policy, there there is zero risk that the a central taxpayer will ever have to pay a dime because that waiver will stand up in court. And then and then uh anybody bringing a lawsuit, their attorney is going to say right away, let's take that million dollars. But you do have an umbrella policy because the police officers are using the range. So even if even if our $3 million policy that we secured isn't enough, you you do have insurance that covers anything over that, that liability policy would kick in before it ever gets. Now, I I I agree with you from from your perspective financially. Yes. Would it be good for us to have as much insurance as possible? But that's that's where Val is talking about, we we just don't have unlimited funds. And and if you really do think that our funds are best spent on like a 2 million, 5 million, I I don't think it is best spent there. I I honestly believe our money would better spend improving the road and doing some of the other things you'd want us to do. But but there will be a breaking point in how much we can do because we just this this is a bunch of volunteers trying to raise as much money as we can. We we don't have deep pockets. It's not a commercial enterprise. It's it's all volunteers putting up money to to shoot up there. And if and at some point I guess if we don't have enough money we have to go away then then the city is covering all those costs without us. At least we're contributing something. And that's that's where I like where you were going because maybe you know maybe we can if if the city really does think that that you know it's got to be 25 that's just the best practices from a you know risk management perspective then maybe the city could give us part of that money or you can cut out some of the other costs that we've got in there so we can afford the the 25. We'll we'll do our best to come up with that money but

right but uh the the concern is we're not 100% sure we can. Okay. I want to I want to hear now from chief uh what you had left to say and then I want to hear from council members because I feel I've been uh framing and asking a lot of the questions and we haven't let council input. Thank you council being so patient. Chief, do you give one? Let's let chief chief finish first because we've we've you we've heard an awful lot from your group and chief's been very polite and considerate here, but I want to hear what he has to say and and council as well too. Obviously, and you'll and if we get anything wrong, you'll have your chance. Go ahead.

Yeah. Thank Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'd like to keep going through it that the changes. We have a kind of overview of it and obviously the discussion on liability on insurance is going to be a big part of it. Uh, but we work through a um a a time of use schedule, something we uh we have not had in the lease that they've had their own rules and we've had some complaints over the years. in. So now we've instituted and and I will say as as an association they did institute did they change their own internal rules of use for hours use and so but we're just throwing that in the uh the lease now from 8A to to sunset. Um see so we're initially asking for a fiveyear lease uh with an additional five to be considered at the end of the you know the end of the first five the let me if I can say the argument for that is we recognize the investment that centrals is making into it that but we just want to kind of have that temperature check at 5 years to make sure everything's still going as well but we recognize the investment that it's taking. Um if I I appreciate Val and the conversations we've had obviously I feel more trust and faith than I've had in the past because of conversations in the new board then I anyway it's been great. So let me sorry inter but that's that's what we're talking five recognizing investment they need to make and then we we talked about remediation right now the the small arms have been putting in 800 a year our fund is up to $9,000. We had a an estimate given to us by a lead remediation company that can come in and remove lead and um fix the soil, right? So we don't have the the leeching problem. They gave us an estimate that ranges from about 50,000 to 110,000. It's kind of all over the place. And once we got closer to doing it, we could nail down a more final a better quote. Um and so the the 800 a year is not adequate. We we put in

here 4,000. Uh the the association came back with a a proposition to start this year at 1,000 and then next year donate 2,000 to this fund that the city has and 3,000 and at 5,000 right into the last year and then at that point we would uh figure out where we're at after the 5 years when we look at renewing it again to figure out how much we need moving on the future. The city is also committed to match the funds into this remediation. And so we're we we'll say that we would propose to the council, right, that that's the big change. And the current agreement um is fully 100% borne by the the center of small arms and and I we definitely don't think that's fair. We throw a lot of lead down range as well, especially our other neighbor organizations that use it or other agencies that use it that we do feel that we should bear some of that responsibly. So that's a big change in this agreement as well that we actually cost match 50% of that. So if there's 9,000 in there now, we match that 9. If they put in 15, we put in 15, but we match what's going in. So then we get to that 50,000 or close to uh by year five. And so after that, it's maintaining and then we'll see what the rates will be going forward after year five. But I I believe the city is responsible and that's the recommendation that we have to council. We'll put in the budgets going forward that it shouldn't be fully borne by central arms. I I do feel that was an unfair requirement of them since we use it quite often as well.

Just to clarify, that's moving forward. We're matching. I'm okay matching what's already in there as well. Okay. That's that's not that would be a separate thing we'll discuss with the budget amendment. Okay. Chief and and and that is those are the major changes. Everything else is rolling forward from the from the previous lease council. You've been very patient. Questions for small arms or chief or bread? I've several as well. Go ahead. Chief, she's referring to your council.

Okay. A couple of questions for both of you, Chief, just to understand the background. This is an agreement that you have vetted, you've reviewed it, you've consulted with Lisa, and you're comfortable from the police side with the way that the language is drafted. Yes. Yes. Okay. Um, a couple of questions for um the gun association range. And this is um Judge Stuki, you were introduced as both a judge and an expert. And I just want to invite you the opportunity. You're providing an expert opinion as an attorney and not as a judge. Is that correct?

That that is correct. And I wish you would have mentioned I wasn't going to but I I'm my counterpart who used to serve with me on the the board of Justice Court judges is David Miller here for Centerville. But no, I'm not I I can't uh ethically render any kind of opinion as a as a judge. And really, my opinion is more grounded in my experience uh uh consulting, owning, and working with with gun ranges. And it's all it's all about having an ironclad waiver to make sure no one ever can sue in in the first place. And after that, it's just about managing a risk with a with a policy that can that can be acceptable to the plaintiff's attorney that would bring some kind of lawyer.

In addition to council, I'm the chair of the judicial conduct commission and I wanted to give you that opportunity to clarify that for the record. Um, okay. Utah code section 47-3-202 was something that was raised and I just pulled that up quickly while we were sitting here. Lisa, I'm sure that you had a chance to take a look at that as well, but that statute does appear only to deal with public nuisances related to noise or noise pollution. I didn't see that as providing any type of applicability here.

Yeah. No, I have not looked at that. My recollection of the discussion with Mr. OS was he was trying to argue the recreational uh immunity if you open up your land for recreational use that you can avoid life. Okay. That was my recollection. So no, I have not looked at Yeah, I just I pulled it up. It didn't seem like it was supporting the the concepts that it was being cited for. Um with regards to you've indicated and I'm sorry, remind me your name. Val. Val, thank you. I'm sorry. I was having a senior moment. Val, you've indicated that your organization has um pulled together a one to3 million dollar liability insurance policy or certificate of insurance. Is it a liability insurance policy or a certificate of insurance? Well, as a liability policy,

a liability policy, you get the certificate of insurance. Got it. Listed. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. How much does that guys that that policy cost you guys on an annual basis? Yeah. So, our $1 million policy we had was just under $1,000 and to add the increased amount goes up to $8,000 per year. Per year. Okay. And so, and I don't know what the new amount is. I've asked, but we only got found out about that Friday. So, I don't Okay. Our treasur just to clarify for all council. Yeah. And are you guys I'm looking at my staff. I know people are answering out here. Do you want me to have them come up to the microphone so that we are getting a record? mic.

It gets them closer at least to these mics. So my this little recording device up here is capturing our record. So try to speak loudly in that direction. We we record these uh but our recording had had you come up but uh but like they say the advantage of coming up is we have all these little things going here tonight. So Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to try to get a sense from you guys in terms of what the increased cost would be because I mean I I have no idea what the difference between one and three and two and five is practically. So it sounds like it's you're jumping from about $1,000 a year to about $8,000 a year. Additional eight and additional eight on top of the one and that's

Can you clarify? You said you don't have the numbers for the 5 million. This is for but the 8,000 additional is for what? The three. It's for the three. Okay. They're just rais raising that on you this year. Is that what you're saying? Well, so come on up. Yeah. Come if you would mind. Talk right. Just come right to this. No, I'm just kidding. Our current lease agreement requires 3 million right now. Current.

The current lease agreement requires 3 million right now, but we did not have it. I think we turned in insurance and I didn't realize it was a thing. I talked to the old guy and said, "Oh, that's too much. we aren't doing it. So when I found out when we started this thing last year, basically it was like, "Oh, wait a minute. That's what it's supposed to be." That's when I started chasing the pricing on it. And so they basically want to add umbrella policy on top of ours. And so that additional umbrella policy, it was roughly $8,000 to add that. And so that was, you know, so so that was a big bite for us that we're really trying to figure out is they're waiting to negotiate this. I didn't jump on it cuz I didn't even know if we were going to get our lease at that point in time. So, it kind of been said in there, our insurance is up for renewal right now. So, I just got the quote from them for the policy that I've been asking for like a couple days ago. So, it came about the same time we got the new lease information. And so, I copied the lease and sent it to him and said, "This is what our new lease says. I need new quotes on this." But that was and just to interject real quickly. Have you bid out with different insurance?

Okay. So, yeah. No, no, no. That's okay. I got quotes from two or three different ones. They're willing to do stuff. So, if you ask me from a risk and I haven't told the staff on this, but from a risk man management side, I would rather see the 25 hit and reduction remediation if that's where we're trying to find cost savings. I'd rather still demnify the city wholly and figure out where we can negotiate remediation costs. Again, I haven't necessarily discussed. Yeah. Yes. So, again, just throwing that out there.

Yeah. I'm not going anywhere with that question yet, Brett. I was just honestly trying to just get a sense as to what the the magnitude of what our ask was for these guys on a practical basis because, you know, you can say millions and that doesn't really mean much to me unless I hear like what it costs you guys. Okay. Thank you for that. Um, and I guess the only other comment that I would make, and I guess it's more of a comment, and I'll let Lisa like weigh in if if you think that I'm really off base. I mean, with regards to the fact that there have been no claims, that's fantastic. Um, but I'm not sure that that means that there will not ever be claims. Of course, people can sign waivers. People sign waivers all the time, and you can release all kinds of things, but there are lots of things that people can't release in a waiver, including gross negligence, reckless recklessness, and intentional misconduct issues. and that presumes that somebody has signed a waiver. So, if you have a kid that is going through the gun range and is injured and hasn't signed a waiver, then that could create some liability concerns as well. It's not I mean, I I'm not saying this to say that I think there is going to be a claim, but I I I'm not I don't share the confidence that there absolutely will not be a claim there. Um, for what it's worth, my thoughts.

Go ahead. Council me first. Okay. And and and Shayen, I I also agree with you. I I don't know that you can assume that that there will be a zero chance for all of the reasons that you stated. Um there's I want to just have a couple of clarifications in maybe trying to find some other solutions that may be helpful. The $800 a year is I'm sorry lead collection. So what is that for? Yes. Okay. Okay. That's what it's been to date and we're trying to move that forward. Okay. Okay. I just wanted to make sure on that. Um just out of curiosity, how many members are in the small arms association currently? Um on book about 240 uh active as far as we because the problem is we don't maintain contact with everybody.

Okay. When we instituted our key policy last spring, we had we issued about 70 and change keys. So we're saying we're probably mid70s active members and that's where we're getting our funds right now from.

Okay. Now anybody in the community is welcome to apply to become a member of this range and then we have a background check for them. We then also look to members to approve them. We are a bit selective because we don't want just random people up there. That was part of our charter originally in agreement with center city that we would vet people coming in as members of the range and we do that when they join. Now we are not selling any more lifetime memberships. I should have mentioned that earlier. We are only selling now annual memberships that they have to renew every year. Okay. What is the cost of that annual membership? What how many lifetime members do you have? Good question, Brad. I'm not sure what the breakdown would be. What do you think?

So, the numbers I have record for is about 230 lifetime members. Um, the problem I have is I have a record of a bunch of names and I go through and when they get to be about 90, I cross them off the list. So, probably a good thought,

right? That's Brad's life expectancy, but I figured, you know, if I can get to 90, I'm probably not going to be up on the should. So, so that was kind of where some of that came from. So, so what what we implemented as part of this and I think we sent the business plan in what we were trying to do and and we're charging like a $100 key fee for people that are lifetime members to get a renewal key so we can generate some revenue. It's so you are you so the 70 that came back were in were a lot of them lifetime members? I would about 2/3 or 3/4 of them were and they paid a key fee. Yeah, they paid a key fee

which was what? So the key fee is $100. Then we charge an additional $50 if they don't do service. So it was between Yes. per year. So between 100 and 150 for the lifetime members. And then the we charge $100 key fee for annual members plus a $100 year fee plus the $50. So it's like $250 if you're not a lifetime member. So we kind of put that up per year. Okay. So, that's kind of how we set up our finances for our budget that we turned in for you guys to cover the insurance and what we thought we had. And we I think we were estimating we'd probably have over a hundred people signing up and we didn't get that.

We didn't get there a little under what we anticipated. I'm sorry. How many I I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no, you're fine. Did you ask and I just didn't hear it. How many annual members you have? You have 230 lifetime members, but how many annual members that are paying this 250? So, out of the about 70 people we got, I have about 20 of those that are annual. Okay. Okay. That's helpful. Um, when you repair the road, is that part of the volunteer work or is there do you assume costs with that equipment rental?

So, in our budget, we assume that we spend about $3,000 a year doing road repairs was what we assumed for our budget. So, like when we did it this time, we we rented a tractor to get up there and we paid for fuel, that kind of stuff to get the road repair, but we had people cleaning stuff up. It's pretty hard to do road work um with hand. Did our parks crew help out with that a little bit? Not that I'm aware of.

We didn't ask for any assistance. They're supposed to come and give us service days. We had two service days this year and we accomplished a lot. Um Ryan has been assigned to kind of control those service days. He's done an excellent job of lining up work to be done, people to help us with equipment, let us get the snow. And that's what we're a little concerned about is because these temporary fixes we've done on the road aren't really holding. The rain's been washing them right out. And so we're going to try to do in our plans going forward if we want to do this spring, I think, a serious uh road repair with some real serious gear up there and some stuff that won't wash out of there, fix our covers, a bunch of things. So, it's going to be

But but this list is based on us being able to give some additional different funding, right, from the Piv Robertson Act. So, we're applying for that to see if we can give some money from there. But that's, you know, cross our fingers. I mean, I think where it's difficult, $250 to get up to the range, you know, when you compete for that amount with what it costs to go to other ranges, we're we're exceeding what other places are at this point. So, that that makes it hard for us to change those kind of numbers.

What um how are the keys kept within amongst the members? How are they How do you make sure that they're not sharing them with their friend or neighbor? We have no I I mean we give keys out and they they're numbered so we know who has the keys and we tell them not to share them. So if someone gets up there and they shared it if we don't hear that that happened there's no way for us to know that. Okay. So I don't can they copy the keys? I mean are they all that's possible do not duplicate doesn't mean it won't duplicate it

right I mean all that stuff is there the probably the biggest thing that we've implemented that we plan on doing is changing the keys every year and so that helps you know at least if someone had a copy it's not going to be good for a long time and I'm not sure I I think the chief had mentioned maybe there have been some people up there but I'm it it's a little bit I it's a little bit hard cuz I know they have, you know, the police have a problem going up to people and saying, "Show me your identification. Show me your stuff." And we're not always there. So, so it's I don't have a great way to maintain that perfectly. Okay.

Um I those are my questions. if anyone has other questions. I I am really concerned about the liability to the city by not having the appropriate insurance. So my reasoning and asking some of the questions about repairing the road and your funding is um you know are there some other things that maybe we could investigate looking at? I mean could we just brainstorming here not saying this is an option but you know could the city help with some of the road repairs. Are there some other things we can do to help offset? But I but the insurance thing I don't I I don't know how comfortable I am reducing that because it it puts other residents in that they end up being on the hook if there is a problem

kind of money here yet. I'm not saying I am willing or not willing. I'm just brainstorming out loud. Yeah. But I'm with you. Could you know we have the equipment? Could we help out and save some money that way? Or would it even be worth us? I mean, our officers are using it. Other officers use it throughout the state, I think, don't they? And we have officers from other would um would it be worth us to help pay a little bit of the liability insurance in order to

We can't pay the insurance because we can't pay the insurance. But about the road, I will share that in the past. Uh Paul Child actually has been the one that's another area that wasn't in my mind, again, I'm not trying to disparage, but wasn't being maintained according to the lease. So Paul Child with his background in excavation was actually dealing with the road once or twice a year, borrowing some equipment, whether it was from the county. Again, we don't necessarily have the equipment. We had to borrow county equipment. Paul had access to the equipment, right? So that's how we were been maintaining the road over the years. So, it's great to see that Senate Smart Arms wants to take on that role, but again, I'm not necessarily opposed. That's a mic question. I don't necessarily want to see I didn't want to look at Mike when I said that. I know. I'd like to ask a couple questions.

Maybe we could help. We We have Okay. No, go ahead. But I know Councilman sat also Councilman Plamer. So, so just one quick question. If we have other organizations, other police agencies that are using this range, are we charging, do you guys charge them to use it? We have no control over officers. We have other if other organizations from other surrounding areas. I'm not saying that we're trying to gouge them, but I mean, if they're going to be using our facilities, it seems like it makes sense for them to have to pitch in something, right? I'm not I'm personally not a fan of that uh because of this mutual aid that we have amongst the different agencies. Like so we we're involved in the the different like fine if we if we in our best interest to have these officers help train

I'm with cuz and then they have things that we use as well too even if they didn't it's in our ranges yeah okay I'm I'm with you and we are huge supporters of them using of course using it and any other group using it I think we figured our calendar issues we we have we figured that historically there have been some some buting of heads and difficulty and and scheduling, but that's all changed now. Nothing but good. Council sums. Oh, Brian had a couple questions. Council plumber.

Uh guys, let me just say I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. So, I appreciate what you guys do up there because I live just down uh to the west of it and I I love to hear the uh gun range going on Sunday morning. It just that's a police officer.

If it's Sunday and it's someone's shooting up there, it's it's wonderful. Or somebody that snuck on the range is not supposed to be up there. Sundays is

that goes to my my question is uh and it sounded to me like after council member Hurst's questions that you do not have a processes and procedures uh guidelines put together. Do you have something that would uh go towards uh people that misuse keys, people that um uh may not be paying their their dues on time? Is there something in place that is written down that you guys can refer to that has those?

Yeah. So if in our rules, if you lay your key out, that's grounds for exp being kicked out. Kicked out of the ring. Yeah. Membership. So, so, so that's in our rules from that standpoint. I mean, the real difficulty in that is how do we find out if that is being if that happens, how do we really find out that it's happened? And I would I would challenge you guys to in this 21st century to really dig deep and we I feel like there's got to be a way to I mean I'd love power up there and a keypad control and all that but fobs we thought through a lot of different things. Have you guys looked into solar or something to that effect that would our budget looked at it?

No. Okay. Okay. So have you guys provided a waiver the the waiver that you all use to our city to review that? Cuz I I don't see it here. I would have really liked to seen the waiver. Yeah, it's on your website. It is on your website. provide it to so the application has a waiver on the application

and again it goes back to your processes and procedures. Do you ensure that people have sign that youth groups whomever you are taking up the day before have some sort of 24hour uh uh time frame that you have to sign it before. You can't get up there and not have it signed. That's that's a a a big factor for me because I do want to make sure that you all can continue up there. But I also feel very strongly about indemnifying the city and how that all works out. Uh I I'm not quite sure just yet, but I would if the waiver is a big part of what you all are holding up is saying this is going to protect you and us. How do you do that? How is your administration of that waiver and how and who holds the waivers and where did the waivers go?

Members sign the waiver. If we take guests up there, we don't ask them to sign a waiver at this time. So, if we take like the four people I took were Japanese residents up there. Um I I think we probably feel a little bit uncomfortable saying please sign this waiver before we take you. I would I would not feel uncomfortable at all having somebody sign a waiver. Understand? But we've never really to date it's always been members sign the waiver. They're liable. They take their guests up there. They're liable based on they take up time. Okay.

So I really everyone's liable. That's I mean the problem is is everyone's liable that has any association with whether you're a member whether it's the small arms association or whether it's the city. So I I respectfully am concerned about that. Okay. So to answer the other part of your question, as as I get membership applications, I take care of the membership stuff. So I have a book with all the signed waivers applications. So that's where that part is kept. But visitors is something that in in our rules, we've allowed people to take visitors up there, but we haven't required waivers. One more question. I think it's a good point to bring up and we will consider that seriously.

Uh, one more question that if uh there was some ability for the city to step in and maybe cover costs in other areas, I would wonder if the small arms uh group here would be willing to uh you mentioned education and you mentioned that you're willing to take uh or you've taken youth groups up there. Is that something you'd be willing to expand and uh maybe give more opportunity for in our city? It's currently in the agreement where they offer Yeah. currently and again that's a huge benefit. I don't know if they do it as much.

Well, I I don't think that they have and I would like to see if if it is in there maybe to actually have more promotion of it to from your end that this is something that we provide and it's an opportunity for people to learn.

I don't know how it is now, but it used to be that almost all the hunter safety was taught up there. Norm Beers was top three quarters of or probably 95% of every boy in Centerville took Hunter safety up there from Norm Beers. So it was but I you know the new board and the new people and I know Norm just passed away. So but that's you know they they did used to do a huge service to the to the center of Elbert with that. And one number I did miss, but we we estimated we've hosted over 200 this past year since we've kind of stepped in here over 200 guests to date up there, different groups and things. Um it's really kind of up to the member if they get an opportunity to bring the group up to to do that. But it's been quite a few groups up there that we've we've had and we're very interested. We're moving forward trying to apply for this Pitman Robertson stuff. And one of the things that we hope we can give for these federal funds are actually federal funds that are excise tax on firearms and ammunition. So it's not taxpayer money. Pip and Robertson act has big money and it comes from all those guys like us that buy firearms and ammunition, whatever. If we apply for that and we get a grant, we've talked with police chief and there's a number of things we'd like to see. We'd like to see a classroom up there. We'd like to see covered shooting and uncovered shooting range. We'd like to see the shooting ranges improve, the BMS improved. Um, one thing I'd like to see is a big westb, you know, the burm on the west be be raised because one thing I've always been concerned about is even though we got very experienced people up there, somebody inexperienced, oh, turning towards the city and letting a, you know, a gun go, which could easily happen. Gene, I agree with you. There's no guarantee

we'll ever have, you know, anything going. So, I I like your idea of a waiver. Um, I think what we really hope to have there is some substantial funds with the help of some of our members who have applied for this Pitman Robertson Act and be able to do some pretty serious changes out there, but that's all TPD. So, what we need to do is get past this first hurdle here and we have No, it's okay. Yeah, but thank you, Mayor. Look, look at his last meeting. He's finally being patient. Didn't you say something about 5 hours?

Yeah, we can. Mrs. uh go as long as we need to. Um I think I would just start with I don't really have any questions, but I think it's important for context just to lay out two things. the first bit of which and chief's already talked about this that this new board is a excellent positive departure from a previous board. So congratulations and thank you very much. Uh the relationship, the willingness, the desire to really uh be a conscientious um community partner I guess is what for lack of a better word has been a breath of fresh air. The second one thing that I'll bring up I think it's important for us as a council to recognize is basic landlord tenant relationships because it the part of what we're looking at tonight is a ground lease effectively and so we need to take a step back and say we are a ground leur leasing land to the gun range

correct

and what are the basic tenants of that landlord tenant relationship And we're getting into the weeds a lot about the business and the day-to-day operations of the gun range uh association. But in my opinion, that's not a lessor's responsibility. That's not our responsibility to ensure or guarantee or subsidize their success. We want them to succeed. Um, and we need to I think generally I I get a feeling that we want them to succeed and we want to figure out a way to to make this uh amendment work. But I really feel that our our responsibility as council members and our fiduciary responsibility is to protect the interests of the city, the land itself and that relates to the remediation at its core and inde risk indemnification. So that's why Brandt from his position I feel like hey council you can make this whatever decision you want but if you don't get your max limit that matches up with what Irma's recommendation is you're exposing our residents in a potential lawsuit regardless of I think Chay made a great point about waivers. I think we've all signed waiverss like look, yeah, I know that I'm going to go skydiving and I have extreme risk here or I know that I'm going to go skiing or scuba diving or what all these things I've done in the last few months. Um, I've signed waiverss for every one of them knowing that there are instances in litigation all the time where there's workarounds and and that just doesn't pan out. Um, and so I I have a hard time trying to figure out or resolve the gun

association's business proposition. I know you're not a not forprofit and I know you've got this dilemma of lifetime memberships. Um, you know, mayor said I was on the South Davis Rec Center board and I've heard over and over when that recreation district was formed, people would say there will never be a tax increase. I'm thinking who would have ever promised that? That's like wild to me that you would have an inflation adjustment or wouldn't even consider an inflation adjustment. I think the lifetime membership concept is something that you're going to have to revisit. I don't know how you do that because you want to not break trust but at the same time you want to be practical with these lifetime members say hey guys I don't know why anybody would have represented that to you but it doesn't really work on a practical basis and so I think what I'm getting at is we've got a lot of things that are unresolved but um maybe there's a a a solution to it. I think we probably, at least my part would be to defer some things back to staff and the association, give them some guidance and maybe do an amendment for 30 or 60 days. Let's not protract it out too long and get some things resolved. That that would be my suggestion at this point. But um you know maybe if I'm calculating some fees, maybe that fee for your gun range has got to increase for a couple hundred bucks or 250 bucks across 70 people. Um that would get you that $8,000. It would get you the $4,000 of remediation. It would get you uh you know some road maintenance funds and and you know sounds like staff's willing to even negotiate on that. I don't think we we should be in a position where we're like trying to negotiate it tonight and figure it out. But those are just my general thoughts.

Can I can I add a few thoughts just in terms of like next steps? So, currently we have an agreement in place, right? It's not this one that is redlined that we've been looking at tonight. We have a current agreement that we've sort of like extended and extended and extended over a period of time. You remove the red lines. What is the correct What is the current liability policy requirement that this organization have in place? $0, right? No. What do they one and three is the baseline right now that they have to have in place and we've like carried that along. What happens if we don't reach an agreement today on this particular agreement? cuz it sounds like maybe this is not

expire and they wouldn't have rights. It would expire and they wouldn't have rights. This is my concern. And so I'm worried that if we don't do something tonight, these guys are not going to be able I mean by the time we get and that's why I'm suggesting do a 30 or 60 day extension amendment advice. I think you still want them under contract or they lose the one and three right now. I've been saying amend it. So you're in that contract. So you're saying adopt this new contract but maybe

No. No. Just no. It is on your agenda and it meets the open meetings act because what's on your agenda right now is to amend the lease. You can still amend the lease to just extend the expiration date from December 31st, 2025 to however if you want to give it 60 days or 30 whatever but I would say 60. January's a busy time, but um and and then I would also direct staff to prepare that and authorize the mayor to sign it prior to December 31st because we don't want to go while sometimes with some contracts we go monthtomonth a contract like this, no because the insurance might be invalidated if we're not even under contract,

right? Is the primary concern that we have now with the redlinined agreement the insurance amount? I mean, I'm not hearing and and remediation because like she said, you have a remediation estimate between 110 and 50,000 and we only have $9,000 in the bank. And again, that gets back to that basic tenant of landlord tenant relationships. They're using the land and if that that there's lead contamination on it, it's on the tenant to remediate that. And I think there's this mechanism that's drafted that could resolve that long term, you know, where we have some participation from both sides. But

I'm supportive of what you're saying about the tenant and the leasey and all of that stuff. But I think we need to remember in this case that our police officers do get a benefit. So, I guess I'm willing to say could we have a discussion about obviously the remediation fund, but um you know, are there some other things that that would be fair to both parties so they could have the appropriate amount of insurance and and and to your point about the lifetime membership, I agree. I'm not sure that's sustainable. And you really when you talk about um the 250 maybe isn't competitive with other gun ranges. Well, a lifetime member is not paying that. So, that's

we Yeah. Why don't you explain the um we pretty much that's what pretty much what we shut down by saying you have to have a key a current key to be able to go up there. So, we're saying lifetime membership. You have a membership. We're not giving you access to the range unless you're paying a key fee. So, we've essentially already shut that down and now we're moving forward like we're trying to bring in new members and then our existing members like I say have to pay the $100 a year and then either do service or pay us some more money. So, we pretty much How many hours of service for the Did you say $50?

Well, yeah. $50 if you don't want to go up there for the day, but we usually have a workday that goes about six or six to eight hours. We're up there doing stuff. I I mean I guess I'd be okay with seeing you charge a little more if they don't show up for the service because six to eight hours for 50 bucks. 50 bucks is a good deal. I know. I I often actually pay 50 bucks to still go up there and hang out with the guys.

It's great fun. But honestly, let me just tell you the this is a nonprofit group and you got to understand every time we ask for more money, uh even the $100 key fee, we had some pretty significant kickback and then even asking for $50 for the word day, we've had some kickback, but we've held strong uh to this even with a lot of other comments, excuses, and grief. Today we're essentially in a way like I said killing the lifetime membership with what with what they have to do. Brad's killing actually being so tough on the record metaphorically on the record.

So we understand that and that's our whole direction with this new group and like I said we're we're only selling now annual memberships and boy but that's what we're trying to balance. Can I make a suggestion? So, if the only two provisions in this contract that we are not really solid on are the insurance liability and the remediation amount and we want to make sure that these guys on the remediation, we just are worried about the insurance.

Okay. So, my suggestion would be rather than continue to do a six 30 or 60-day amendment of our existing contract that omits a lot of great stuff that we've included in here that the parties all agree to, why don't we simply change the amount in the insurance piece right now, which is currently set at 2 and 4. We just change that back down to 1 and three, so it's consistent with what we already have in place. We leave that in place and it will go up to 2 and 5 July 1 of 2026. That gives them six months to figure out if we can make it work and they're okay with the $4,000 remediation. I would change the language in there to say beginning in 2026 because right now I think that it says if they sign it this year they would have to pay it by December 31 of 2025 that 4,000. I don't think that's the intent. So beginning in 2026 they would have to pay it and then we have an existing agreement if they want to come back and you know we want to do something different otherwise starting July 1 of 2026 it goes up to two and five which is what our city wants.

I would argue that it still needs to go to one and four and it's 3.6 million or so for the aggregate. Okay. The current cap is 3 million 663,000 or something. So you're 66. I see. You're right. I see where you're going. I like what you're I I guess I'm just rather than rather than a lot of work on red lines. Let's just like do it and then give them that 6 months. It gives them the six months to be able to figure it out. And if if you guys like come back and go, "Holy crap, this is just not going to work." We have six months to figure that out. But they need to bring their current fees. I think it was intended that that they pay, you know, at the end of the year. Oh, yeah. this year,

right? You bring that current we owe for last year and this year. Okay. You're like, Shin, please don't like knock us money. Okay. If that's the way it was intended. I was just trying to I was trying to help him out, Lisa by

No. And and that's a good point because we are asking for more insurance. And so, you know, again, that's I agree with Brandt. That's where I would say yes, let's you could dial that back a year as long as they bring their current. And so I was going to say I agree with a lot of what Spencer said. I understand the ground and the you know we're leasing the ground except I was thinking like Gina, we're not just leasing it. I'm going to lease you my house but I'm going to stay there on the weekends is kind of what we're doing. So that gives us some more skin in the game. I think for us to sit here and say, "Well, you know, it's stupid to have lifetime memberships." I don't think legally they can get out of the lifetime memberships. they were sold 20, 30 years ago and there's a contract and I think for us to sit here and say, "Well, you got to get rid of those." Now, they could go back to their guys and say, "We're not going to be able to keep this open." But if we don't make it work, we have the remediation and it could be between 50 and 100,000. They don't have it. If the if it's closed down, that has to be done. our officers have nowhere to go and the city's going to end up having to clean it up because they're going to take out bankruptcy and we're going to be holding the back. So, I think there's a lot of incentive for us to make this work. I think what Grant and them have came up with as far as working and getting that fund off is amazing because I've been concerned about that for a long time because I've been told it would be close to $100,000. I do think our officers use it. I do think all of our other officers use it. So, I think we need to look at how we can work with them to make this a success. Not that we want to help them out, but we want to have it for our residents and for our officers and other officers to use. So, I'm I'm really good

at at pushing it down and giving us another 30 to 60 days and trying to work it out. and ask staff to look at, you know, if their insurance is going to be way more, where can we, you know, could we we can't pay their insurance, but could we pay them a fee for letting all of our officers use it? And then what they use that fee for, we wouldn't have any say in order to help, you know, I don't know about that. That's something that Lisa would have to look. I'd like I'd rather just keep the insurance. I mean, I like the suggestion on the table and find other ways to either help with the road maintenance or

but that's kind of what I'm saying. We keep the insurance, but we can find a way to to put some more money into that to keep it viable. I mean, we really want to keep it viable for 5 years because we need that remediation money to clean it up. I'm telling you, they don't have it. So, we wouldn't be really good to put them out of business right now.

Brent, can I clarify something that you just said? Maybe it was Lisa that attributed a comment to you or maybe it was you. I can't remember which now. Sorry, it's getting late in the day and I've only had one tiny thing of caffeine. Um, so would you be okay with taking the existing agreement that's on the table, changing for the first 6 months 1 million and 4 million in the aggregate and then changing the remediation fund to only require that they contribute the $800 that they would currently contribute this year. and then kick that back up and oh and they owe one from last year. Okay. And then going forward starting in 2026 they would need to hit the $4,000 remediation at the end of the year and the city would match that

and then the city would match that. Correct. I mean other than that well what the what the proposal is is is an escalating one and that is in 2026 December 2026 they would contribute a,000 27 would be 2,000 28 would be three and then four and five which equates to 15,000 over 5 years. And if we match, that's 30,000 between the two parties. There's 10,000 in there now. We'll match the 10,000. We'll be at 50,000 by end of year five, which again puts us a much closer uh to the number to remediate. Are we sure that's what the agreement says? That's back up. This is something that Chief Hackerson and Balcon negotiated over the last couple week. I like that. No, it doesn't.

Yeah, this was over the weekend figuring out how we can we can do 4,000 over the weekend. But so the escalating scale and our mediation fund, we are fine.

Our scary part that we just don't know is all of a sudden going from 1 to 3 to 2 to 5 and the additional costs have already been kind of steep. So like I said, we'll get there. You know, if that's required come July, we got to get there. We'll we'll get there. But we want everyone on council to understand who we are, what we are, and what we're trying to do, and how that's going to be tough for us to get there. So, if I can speak candidly, ultimately the scary as Catholica mentioned that I anticipate fully that we'll be on the hook for the remediation, whatever that difference is. I understand that because I you we want to try and participate as much as we can as a partner, but if if the city has to come up with 100,000 um then we'll come up with 100,000 if if the agreement was to end and it's no longer used as a gun range. That's not the big concern to me. We would figure that out. U officers still may use it even after Small Arms doesn't use it, so it wouldn't need to be remediated right away. I'm not overly concerned. If we want to say that keep the cost at $1,000 a year for five years to so we can get our demification, I'm fine with that. That's right. I'm trying to shift money from

I would rather lose put thousand dollars on the line

versus potentially millions of dollars or hundreds of thousands or tens of th I'd rather put that 100,000 saying that may happen versus let me share a personal experience with you for a moment and why this impacts me. In basic training two rotations before me, we had a soldier who decided that he didn't want to do this anymore. decided to turn his firearm on the drill instructor and other other um soldiers. So, this was a big deal. He had a rough day and and so that was really drilled in us and we talked about it often. That was two just two rotations before me and so there was definitely you can have a bad day, right? You're holding a firearm. So, this is why it's such a big deal that somebody could just have a bad day and then it becomes a big issue. Doesn't happen often, but it can happen. So that's why this one hits me a little differently because of my experience and how that was really hammered into gun safety for us and how we really need to care for it. So sorry, just want to share a little personal experience of

No, that that makes sense. Lisa, would you as a staff feel better if we just push this and and have it go for another month and try and get it? I mean, we've got a lot of ideas. I think we've given you a lot of ideas. You know where we're coming from. The chief knows where we're coming from. Would you think we would be better off to just I think given what was just explained or proposed, I'd rather get it done. We're there. We're just giving up remediation fund for insurance, which I completely have already put your money.

So, we're just keeping it at $1,000 remediation for five years and require one for until July 1st 25 after that. I mean, I do get Yeah. Does the city match that? But again, I I think the city should I I agree. We need to start getting a fund ready, right? Let's match it there and we can discuss and there are a lot of really good changes in this and and I'll have a conversation with Mike and and discuss where we can provide some opportunities there. Again, we don't necessarily have the equipment, but neither does Senator Bill Small Arms Association to do the equipment. It's tough.

Uh but we definitely have some very knowledgeable employees that could maybe find a way in. So, even if you approve this agreement, I would still work with staff to see if we can't find a way to offer some more assistance. And maybe we get Paul Child up here a couple times a year to to grade the road. And he's up here anyway. So, that would be eliminating the escalating clause, though, just saying $1,000 starting December of 2026, and all they have to do by the end of this year is pay this year's assessment of 800 and last year. Last year's assessment. Do you want me to try to make a motion? I think I can do the motion if you guys are ready. I don't want to cut it off. No, I don't.

All right. If y'all don't like it, if nobody can second it. Okay. Um, I am going to make a motion that we approve the amended and restated gun range lease agreement that is being proposed with the following changes. In clause five, we are going to change the current um amounts of 2 million for one person in an occurrence and 4 million in the aggreate for two or more persons uh to be 1 million for per person and 4 million in the aggregate. We're going to correct the references to July 1 of 2025 and make those July 1 of 2026. In paragraph 17, no I'm sorry, not 17, 18, we are going to change the um the requirement that the remediation fund that the association contribute a minimum of $4,000 annually to the city. We're going to reduce that to $1,000 and we are going to make it so that for the year 2025, the association is going to contribute the $800 that it owes for 2025 and the $800 that it owed for 2024. And going forward, starting in 2026, they'll be obligated to um contribute $1,000. But then we'll leave all the other language the same. Did that Did you get all those? And I'll direct staff to make appropriate changes to the agreement to reflect those changes. And I I would move that we authorize the mayor to sign on or before December 31st.

Uh is there a council member that just understands that motion? Second to last paragraph in five. So you took care of the uh two to four and you went to one to four but there's also another reference. Okay. Yeah. Those both of those should change. Correct. 2006 and five. Yeah. Can can we also I mean maybe we don't need to direct staff to do this. I think they clearly understand. also look at some other options to help with maybe shifting of some funds so that they can have a little more available to pay for the insurance. And maybe we do a work session on this and sort of brainstorm a little. Yeah,

cuz now we're going to this buys them time, right? This is going to buy them time. Okay. Do we have a second to that motion though? I'll second it. Further discussion. Oh, for the record though, I just stole that. I just sat here quietly. I'll let you do your work. All right. Well, sorry, Spencer. That's okay. I can resend my second second it. We'll let we'll let you be the first vote then going to to my right. Okay. I I I I I

Okay. Passes unanimously. Never say we don't have fun up here, man. We are burgers or we don't deliberate. We don't rubber stamp anyway. All righty. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. I talked too much already and I I truly appreciate you uh keeping me out of trouble by

I couldn't help myself. Uh, but I did want to say as a person that sits through a lot of city council meetings, you are all staff and council, such a credit to the city. I I I really feel like you listened to us tonight and and I thought your deliberations were on the point and and and even even where, you know, I maybe disagreed a little bit on some things. I I I appreciate your your your points are are well taken and I just I'm so grateful you had actually listened to the to the citizenry and and had the high level of of discussion and deliberation that you had. You you truly are a credit to the city. It was a pleasure to watch. It really was. Thank you. Most

pretty much all the council loves loves the city and wants to see what we have, but they got to be responsible as well too. So, thank you, Brad. Good. So, all right. Thank you. We ready to move on? Chief, you're still there. Still me. Yeah. That's because uh we're continuing on so to the next one. Okay. Let's go to item number three. This is the center of municipal code amendments regarding electric microbility devices in city parks. Chief, I know we uh talked about this in a work session before, so Oh, they're all leaving. They don't want to talk about ebikes. Come on.

Go ahead. Yeah. So, we we previously had a work session on this where we talked about ebikes, e scooters, e things in city parks. We also talked about outside the on public roads, but really what we can accomplish right now has to do with city parks, right? idea that he has jurisdiction over to to um and so he asked us to to to bring back a an amended ordinance that would include electric micromobility devices which for the record I don't like the term but I've been able unable to find something that is micro feel like it's this big not humaniz

okay so so we've uh we've gone through in these these two different sections within our current ordinance. We've um included where we included a definition of electric micro micromobility device and then we've inserted it into the current ordinance where it bans or restricts use of motor vehicles in the park. So does motor vehicles and microobility devices and um so yeah and we also further clarified um when we talked about five skateboards and it it talked about self-propelled devices which is which is really confusing me. So now we've gone to another term I really don't like but defines it better which is solely human propelled vehicles which I I encourage everyone to use at least once this week instead of referring to a bicycle should call it that

for the record. Should we say that the chief came up with these

Lisa wasn't going to take it any longer. Yeah, don't. Yeah, I don't know. These these are my words. I just could not find anything better. So, if you guys if council has better terms of works no claim. Yeah, she reviewed the draft. She didn't draft.

Okay. And then uh Okay. Okay. Then we als we also added a clause talking about other thing it's other bikes and things being stored in a safe manner when I'm not when not in. Right. And so the other discussion we've been having with parks is um where do we have currently have bike racks and then working towards getting more bike racks put in in areas where we have gaps because we are going to be limiting the use of certain um bikes and devices inside the park. And I appreciate you bringing that because it's one thing to create policy but then not make accommodations for that policy. So that's something you have to

Yeah. Crucial have a line item in your 2026 budget. Talk to some state legislature about doing that. Sorry.

So Chris has also drafted a proposed sign. you guys have a copy of that will be put up if approved and trying to think if there's anything else on that. Obviously, there there's a clause in there that uh would not restrict someone from using a micromobility device if it were to aid in a disability. Right. So, we're not chasing down people in wheelchairs. Chief, for the record, I went to chat GPT just to ask it for alternative terms options. Human powered bicycle or humanpowered vehicle. My favorite muscle powered bicycle.

Just saying. None electrically assisted. I think I'm I'm I'm giving you I'm giving you good nature grape cuz I'm actually totally fine with solely humid. Use nothing else. Lisa got a good Yeah. All right. So, yeah. So, we say solely human propelled devices andor devices not lift. Okay. So, you have before you uh these amended sections. Uh do you have any questions?

Did this I mean I remember I'm trying to remember packet to to your presentation at the work session. Um this was really spurned by people riding these um micromobility devices that are two wheels on grass. I mean, do we have complaints about people riding scooters or smaller uh devices that uh onehe um hoverboard type that you know would ride on a a pathway or on a sidewalk? Is that within this park? I mean, is that a was that an issue? I I I'm not sure about that the hoverboard or the one board, but we definitely had electric scooter complaints, bicycle, electric bike complaints from uh walkers in the park, right? They go there walking and and kids and adults are just busting through um in a safe manner and so they they do complain to us this time with the current ordinance. uh it made it very difficult to do anything about it and um as as officers we feel uncomfortable approaching people without a solid ordinance behind us or building the entire and so and how are you going to distinguish somebody that's on a a scooter or a um a some sort of like wheelchair that's not in in the traditional design of a wheelchair. How can you determine that from if that that if in fact they actually do need that from someone else that's just out writing?

There's a code reference in 70 B related to persons with mobility disabilities on those mobility vehicles. So I think that's covered within that section. Is that where where you tried to address those types of issues? That's the way I understand it. But council plumber is talking about how how do we as officers know what if someone has a disability or not? We we don't. Um it's like a service dog. Do you know about service dog or not?

It's it's all about conversation. Obviously we're having conversation with them. There's a good chance they're probably being operated in an unsafe manner or some way that draws our attention to them. Um I think our officers have good discretion out there already. Yeah, just because we create this ordinance does not mean we're going to have these extra patrol shifts out in the parks where we're just running stings like like it it just gives us another tool and ability to educate the public and an ability to put up signage for people to read that that clearly defines it because there was an argument in our old ordinance that it did restrict it but not clearly. So, I have a I have a question seeing just looking at those signs and I can't even see them super well, but I'm seeing motorized vehicles and that's one of the problems is the kids are I think it needs to say motorized or electric so that they realize that electric is a motorized. I don't think the kids necessarily realize that they're electric are motorized. that I think if we put something on there that says no electric

or electric and I think Bruce if you look closely at the sign in the packet there's a little lightning that I think it doesn't explicitly say but I guess that was your intent Bruce by putting that notation there is yeah we can work on better graphics or well and it says electric scooters but I'm just thinking of myself I could you know that's how you're going to see it when you're riding around you just think where there's no motorized vehicle is in that big letter on the bottom that says no motorized or electric vehicles, you would catch my grandchildren better. I I see your point, Councilman, because that that is the capitalized bolded words, right?

You know, up above you have no ebikes, but you don't see that like you see the right notoriizing is that that's where you get that from. But when you say that, then you are sort of saying that that electric wheelchair. No, because we It's in the ordinance, but it's not on the sign. Well, I don't I don't think you're gonna have a problem. I don't think if I'm in an electric wheelchair, I'm afraid the police are going to give me Yeah. I don't think our officers are going to kill anybody. Well, of course, I don't think our officers It's It's clear. The officers know the code, but I don't want someone to feel like they've been

saying you don't want an 85year-old lady who's a stickler for the law, a rule follower that says, "Oh gosh, I can't take my wheelchair in here. I guess I'll try and walk." And then ends up with having an accident. People that are in those motorized devices, they're well aware of their rights that they have access to all the public stuff. I I mean, I appreciate your comment. I do, but I think that one doesn't cause me as much. We're fairly limited in science space, right? We can't That's why I'm saying I don't think you whether the kid knows it or not, motorized is motorized. So, I don't know that it needs to say electric. Children do not think their electric stuff is motorized.

But to Robin's point, I would lead with no electric or motorized because I think that is the key. I I would think most public knows they they can't drive their motorized vehicles down into the park, but very few people know they can't drive. I I would even be okay for side space to just say no electric vehicles and and and assume that people would that also means no motorized. I mean, I'll defer to you guys. I'm not trying to back.

Well, snowmobiles are not electric. That's why I'm like I mean I'm trying to I'm trying to manage all of the things on the sign. I think if we could just, you know, if we have to make the sign 3 in bigger, we do. But what it just says no more. I mean, I'm not going to argue over it, but to me, I know, and I'm telling you, some people's electric vehicles, I have a gal that comes on a scooter. She might as well be driving a car coming around that corner when I'm crossing guard. I mean, I'm jumping out of the way. If you don't think I can jump, use a walk. I like the way that it's adopted. I think you guys have done a really good job with the language in the ordinance.

I I wonder if we can cut some section out of the middle there where kind of defines or lists all the different kind and get more clear on the big language like no electrified or motori. This is just a draft. We can sign a little bit. Remind me why we're not including bicycles because these are they are regular bicycles. Man-made bic humanel human propelled humanel.

Here it is. Is I feel like we're we're picking on these these ebikes and and people that ride responsibly shouldn't be punished for the people that aren't. And people do ride uh scooters and electric vehicles a little crazy sometimes, but they also ride their muscle powered bicycles a little that way as well. So I feel like we're we're really singling out the the responsible users and saying you can't do this here because of other because of a very probably a minority of people. So, I'm having a little bit of an issue with that. And can we uh limit it to just the grass or areas that can't be driven on typically or or have a speed limit of some sort within the park for certain types of bikes. I mean, I I just don't feel like I understand the the safety issue and I I appreciate that. I think is important. But again, muscle powered bikes are just as dangerous if they're operated.

I I I I don't have stats to back this up, but I'm going on common sense. A a 10-year-old riding their bike cannot create the speed riding their bike that they can if they're riding an ebike. Even my wife and I have ebikes, and her and I can't get our pedal bikes going as fast as we get our ebikes going. Well, so I I just don't I just don't I just think the dangers in the ebike is a lot higher than the danger of a pedal bike,

right? We've had, you know, traditional bicycle scooters being operated in parks since they were first invented, right? And we've never really had a desire or need to further restrict them from from the parks, right? We've been able to pedestrians and cyclists, they've been able to coexist in the parks until the advent of ebikes and now we've have this safety issue that's been brought up because they do go faster. They I mean if you solely human power it, right? But then you throw in a bunch electricity, you're going to go faster every time. And if we try to restrict as restrict them um from off the grass like they're allowed allowed to ride on the sidewalk but not the grass

the grass is actually safer place for the ebikes to be I mean it's not good for it's not good but as far as like safety with pedestrians it's it's not Yeah I don't want them on the sidewalks where the pedestrians are walking. Salt Lake City just had this on their agenda. I seen it on the news two weeks ago. Many cities are posting I don't

and not that I care what other cities do because I want to do what we want to do for the most part but uh you can look at my phone and uh the texting between mayors. This is going on in every city in David County and our last committee half half our council on mayor's meeting was discussing what are you guys doing? Drapers park got destroyed in in your park. So, so what's happening in every city and in our county? You know,

I'm out by Freedom Hills Park and I see kids all the time riding their their scooters and bikes straight down the hill, straight across uh Park Hills Drive, no thought or look at traffic and and I'm not seeing them do that on traditional bikes or scooters. They're Well, you do have more control on a traditional bike. I mean, I can tell you because I'm standing there when they're coming down the sidewalk and a traditional bike seems like you can go out around pretty good. The the electric bikes seem like it's better to be able to jump out of the way or the electric scooters, either one. And we have several that come to the junior high.

So, yeah, I mean, what we've seen is a shift from kids and adults riding bicycles as a means to get from point A to point B, right? Now, they're they're recreational vehicles in the park. They just go out there and play for hours and hours or until their battery dies running around. Then battery dies and they they go immediately home, right? Cuz they're not going to pedal around, right? They're pushing around. And so we just the explosion in in frequency of of seeing these things out there, right? Kids on traditional bikes, they just they don't ride around in the park. Well, so we're sending a bunch of children out there playing in the park and now we're going to tell them they can't.

That's what we're saying. Correct. If they're on ebikes and electric bikes, that's bikes that can get going 25 to 40 miles an hour and they can't control them. They should. I still feel like that is put them on their regular bike they can control.

Okay, they can but that's not that's not what's happening. What's happening is people have bought these uh devices. They've been able to use them in the parks. There is a minority of people that are being reckless and we're going to punish the entire city for that. I wonder if we could maybe have an age that we could say if you're over 16 you could ride in the park is I mean or what is it that we're we're saying is it the kids that are these pro that are really the problem because we don't allow children to get really anything until 14 until they can get a an ATV license and then at six or 15, they're able to get a uh learner's permit, 16 and so on. So, can we do something like that? I just feel like we're we're punishing people that typically are responsible adults that take their hoverboards down to the park and watch their kids play baseball or go up to the pickle ball court and play pickle ball. And I just feel like um I don't want to punish the people for a a minority of people being

I don't I don't see it as a punishment to me. It's within our park boundaries. Our parks are not that large. It's it's within a context of creating a safe environment within our park system. And if you if an individual really wants to let loose on a micromobil electric microobility device, they're going to do it at a a more uh long distance type of a setting. Um so I I it's to me the reason why it's brought forth to us is because it has caused problems and we're trying to uh alleviate those problems. And I will say that I think there's more destruction being done by the kids. And the reason I know this is I got a phone call from a neighborhood. Bruce locked the gate to community park for one of the neighborhoods. And so they called me. They're like, "They locked our gate. Our kids can't get into the park." And so I called him and he says, "We've got kids riding on the Ball Diamonds and we're having to re-reake out the Ball Diamonds." So I called him back and I said, "Look, you've got some kids over there that are doing damage. let me let me know when they're there. We'll get it stopped and we'll unlock your gate. And it was only a couple of days. I called the chief at home and I'm like, they're over there. It's 9:39. They're on the ball diamond. And so they went down and they were able to catch them. Now I'm of the old school. I told them to take them home and tell them and their parents they had to rake out the ball diamond. And the chief told me, "You can't do that anymore." And I think that's dumb. I think you should have all been able to go down and rake out the ball diamond. And they learned a lesson. I 100% agree the punishment should match the crime.

There you go. Not that that's a crime, but you know, it kind of is.

Causing. So, I do think that that these kids are going down there on these little motorized things and they're riding on the ball diamonds and and I don't think our police are going to I mean, heavens knows my husband's all over town on this bike and all the police know who he is. He's orange jacket. So, I don't think if one of them seen him riding through a park on a sidewalk, they're going to lights him silent, take him down. I think they're going to use this law to stop the kids that are misusing it because I believe our police have a pretty good discretion on what they're doing. And I will say the current ordinance it's been interpreted that these electric devices are already restricted from the parks, right? It's your definition of a motorized vehicle. But what we're adding to this is clarity and so there's no so it's no longer ambiguous on on what it is. But um our our our our belief is that the old policy the old ordinance does cover them. But it is difficult to tell kids, tell the parents that they're not allowed to park when we say no motorized vehicles.

Well, and I do agree that it's helpful to have it in specific. I mean, these things come up, you know, there's new new kinds of uses. Um, and I I don't know. I just had one suggestion after we had that sign discussion. Um, our section 070 says motor vehicles. Do we want to say electric and motor vehicles? Because then 090 is the solely human. Yeah. Yeah. So it's clearant we've addressed electric vehicles and you're not it's going to be easy to find that. I think that's an important clarification. That's a good

I do too. And I do want to thank the chief for doing a lot of the work on this and and all the research because these are defined throughout the code the state code and I think he's provided. So these things are nuisances in Salt Lake. So we kept on saying children. Yeah, we don't have anything. Is it really children? Can we Is there room for an amendment? 21 and over on this. I just think it makes it hard for them to enforce it when we start putting ages and

if someone's riding through the park and causing problems, we get called over there. I really don't care what age they are, right? Um but and in my view, an e- scooter is much more akin to an automobile, an off-road vehicle, an ATV, a motorcycle. We prohibit all of those. We don't let people just go run a muck on those. So, I'm I'm completely fine. We're not really changing the law, right? We're just really changing the signs because we already don't allow motor vehicles in there.

And unfortunately, all the offenders that I I witness are all under the age of 12. So, it's kids. It's children. So, you know, occasionally might be, but like I said, an adult that's riding an ebike through is being respectful and just they're just they're just riding through or something. The violations are happening by kids. And it's like you say, it's clarification. It's not we're not punishing anyone. We're not changing anything. We're just clarifying this is not allowed past the parking lots. There's still action at the same time. So if an adult is being respectful, you're more than likely not going to get a complaint, right? We're not patrolling the park.

When you put those signs up, you're going to start getting complaints if you just ride through. I don't think so. I don't I don't think so. And if you do get a if if there is an adult who's being I've had plenty of discussions already u based on that insert we did in the newsletter and I've had people call me and we've had good discussion every single one of them have been good discussion. I've had conversations with older couples who ride bikes together through the city and we're able to come to terms with it and they they've been good with with the with the ordinance. So, but you're right. It could garner some some complaints or some people that are unhappy about it, which Lisa just

I think it's usually a sign that it's a good ordinance if you get a few complaints. Lisa again behavior. Sorry, Chief. Were you done? I'm sorry. I'm done. Okay. No, I just want to make sure we got Lisa's change. It is in 70. C uh 70C, correct? Where it says no motor vehicles saying no electric or motor vehicles. Correct. I'm just saying in the heading of Oh, in the heading itself. Okay. 2.070. Yeah. It just says motor vehicles, but I want people to be able to find this. So, you can either say, yeah, I kind of like electric and motor vehicles. I I actually, if we're going to go this route,

can we not call it what it is? It is an electric motor or a combustion motor or some sort. Because I I hear what you're all saying that in fact they've been prohibited from the very beginning, right? They have been, but we haven't because of this electric part of it. But it is an electric motor. It's not I mean we're we're trying to differentiate electric and then some motor. It is an electric motor and then you have a combustion motor and then you have a human motor. So, some have both and some have both.

That's true. I I That's why I'm like I That's why I kind of contested the sign because I'm like it really is just no motorized vehicles. I do get the kids don't know that. Chief will Chief will clear it up for them if they are being disrespectful. I guess in your definition your definitions, Lisa, I guess it's A, B, C, and D which cover all of those things. So by definition you're defining motor vehicles. Are you not within that entire ABCD or you not? How are you defining motor vehicles? Well,

as a defined I think we're adding motor vehicles is what we're used to. you know the snowmobiles, the motorcycles, automobiles and we're adding electric micro mobility devices which to the I guess you should be clear that they're inclusive or they two different things but I think the way that it's defined they're two different things because we're saying no motor vehicle or electric micromobility but it doesn't mean they can't

but they're actually the same thing in the sense that they all have motors and I would I would prefer if we actually stuck to motor then because we're not necessarily adding a prohibition here. We're all we're just clarifying it. But I don't think it's clear to people like but those core things are they really going to think oh that's a it's well it is and that's it really is. I mean

but what you're doing is you're doing everything these guys have done because don't we already have signs all over the park that say no motorized vehicles? So that's why they came to us to ask because we are are they are having a problem. They're having a problem with people arguing with them. They're having a problem with the kids damaging the parks. And that's the problem is we already have that sign at our park.

So So yeah, one of one of the issues we have is is originally when we started encountering these and I was reading the ordinance and I was reading state law. Um, I was not comfortable having our officers enforce the ordinance based on ebikes being a motorized vehicle because we we have this definition that's I don't think real clear. And then the state has their definition which muddies it even more when it comes to what a bicycle is. According to the state, an ebike is a bicycle, right? There's they they don't really delineate between the between the two. But what the way the definition of motor vehicle

but the way it was originally written was the definition of a motor vehicle named all sorts of combustion type motors but no electric motor. So that's why you have section B, right? Yes. I mean that's why we added that. Oh wait, we already got more. I think we need a We need a motion. We haven't got a motion. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm going to make a motion

that we approve ordinance number 202025-16 as drafted. Um, and I'm I'm comfortable either way. I I can change it to electric and motor vehicles knowing that motors are motors regardless if they're internal combustion or electric. But I think this kind of clears it up for us and the state feels like we need to do it in the future. They can do that. I'm comfortable with it as it stands. Okay, we have a second. I'll second. All right. So, I have a question. Would that ordinance do what you're hoping to do?

Yes. By by not adding electric to it. Uh e either way. Either way, I mean, whether the heading says it or not, the substance of the sections gives us the ability to enforce because it section B is clear. Section B adds the definition they need. That's why and and I'm fine with Bruce like figuring out the sign and what he thinks is going to work best cuz he's going to be the one that gets the phone calls. That gives you the option of whatever you don't ride, you can put on the sign. speed sensor on the sign. If it's like more than 30, it goes off like blaring siren.

And you know, actually the lawn and the ball fields aren't aren't, you know, my concern my concern would be is if that's not the purpose that those are designed or made. They're made for playing soccer and football and rugby and baseball and softball and and uh kickball. It's not made to be a dirt bike park. and and and we do have one and I I I would recommend we invest some more money in making it more fun and attraction for people to go ride your dirt bikes and your ebikes or whatever you want in in these fun places that are built for it. You know, it has jumps, it has hills, it has, you know, things like that and and it's for that purpose. And that's that's something, you know, I I got two kids that were on the the tennis court at I Park with their with their motor e motorbikes. And I'm like, you know, both of them are 11 years old. And I was like walked into the tennis court gate and you guys, you know, you you shouldn't be in here with your motorized vehicles and you can't go past the parking lot. And I said, "Okay." And I asked him, "How much do these cost?" And he said, "Oh, mine was mine was about 600 bucks and my my buddies was more like a,000." And so they're they're pretty affordable. But I would

unfortunately those are actually defined as motorcycles in state law and they have to have licenses which obviously is 11y old. Yeah, they will. And I think you can't even do that. Wait, wait till after Christmas. There's going to be a lot more of these things. Okay, let's vote. Councilman I I I feel like there should be an age limit on uh vote name. I five. It passes 4 to one. We'll have that discussion yet how we use our pick another time. Tennis ball and our pickle ball courts cuz that's a pet peeve with me for sure. So

I would like to come back if we have problems with adults. I mean I'd like to know if I will keep an eye on that's what I'm afraid of. I'm going to be on the news with you. All right.

Let's go to uh item number four. This is uh Sable Utah 250 Community Committee supporting the American 250 Utah Commission. Uh this was uh brought up by Haley Turner as we have a resolution here creating the committee to support the 250 committee to support the American 250 Utah Commission. Haley, you have anything more you want to say on it? I know she's reached out to me uh as far as getting some people on it, so we need to have that discussion with her. be me and the Fourth of July chairs if we're combining it or we have three separate people. But for this these purposes, that's not what this is for, right?

Nope. Yeah. They just want to uh seize the resolution so we can be a partner host with that. Um so we want to celebrate with the nation in Utah America's 250th anniversary. Make that part of our events and celebrations this year. Everybody uh no questions for the state any help us get some money maybe so there is some funding um so once we we do pass a resolution and form our committee then we're eligible for funds to be able to support staffing for it and and

did they did the state provide any guidelines on what they um are they dictating how we celebrate in any way, shape or form? No, not really. Other than like we have to adopt the resolution, we have to form the committee and submit submit an idea. Okay. Um when you say that there is um state funding available once we pass the resolution, will the state funding fully fund this committee or is the city going to be expected? Do you expect the city to have to contribute any funds to this committee?

So, no. Um, we I guess my plan from the staff member perspective is to already bundle this with things we're doing so it won't create an additional cost for us. Um, and I think the funding will really be used to support the committee and any staff time that it requires to kind of monitor that and you know like making this resolution and things like that. Councilwoman Haven, we're getting the state to pay for our whole Fourth of July. Yes, it will. If you can make that happen, we love you. All right, let's bring the expectations. A little worried about that.

Any other questions? Okay. Uh motion motion to approve resolution 2025-21. Second. Second. Uh Councilwoman Hurst going over to her right. I I I I I pass unanimously. Great. Let's go. Thanks a Let's go on to our interlocal co cooperation agreement. Uh transportation project reimbursement on Porter Lane roadway. The one that kept me out of having to tour the county this year because we submitted something. Right. You can pay me and Kevin later.

Then Mike was nice and didn't invite me out. But but thanks for saving my time, you know. But it would it would have been great to be there with you too. So tell us about it.

Well, the biggest thing to understand is we did have a grant with WFRC TAP grant which is a 50/50 match. So we had it going from the frontage road all the way up on four south up the main street. So what this includes was we'd be able to have uh extend the road over put curbon gutter and then a 10-ft asphalt patch. So, like I say, in the beginning, our match was 50/50. So, the total project that we're looking at is about 1.4 million. So, we would have been on tap for half of that. Kevin come up with the idea that we ought to maybe try for third quarter taxes, which we did. Me and Gina and Kevin were over there. And so, what that does is reduces our cost down to only 20%. So, the county pays 80%, we pay 20. So, there again, the project's still about 1.4. 4. Our cost is about $274,500. So, kind of a deal. It's a good deal. We can just get the ditch in, get the county to get the ditch in, and we can get the roadway in there. It was uh I think it went over really well. I think Gina really helped out and and Kevin with the talking about the trails being able to come over the freeway, go across the front of the road, and come up that way was was a pretty big deal. But anyway,

great job. really great job. Just a quick question on the ex on the roadway extension curve gutter and then the pathway will the existing trees that are planted were previously planned by the either by the county or residents I guess that are not on their property will those stay like do we know what the scope line the scope line will be? Yes. So the uh plan right now is to put the trail the 10ft asphalt path right up against the back of the curbon gutter so that we can avoid the power lines and some of those trees.

By avoiding trail power lines you automatically avoid the trees. Yes.

Somehow it's in your wall court. I really appreciate it the neighbors over there. I've had several of them really excited about this is this is a big deal and it's a really great safety feature too for our kids that are walking on that road to get to school. So just great connectivity. Yeah, for sure. But but also just the safety for those kids that are coming that way to the junior Kevin and I have talked before when would we ever afford to be able to put curb up and down that road? I mean there's no development that's going to ever take place. So it would never happen. So this there is on the other side is

uh there is sidewalk all the way up there from main down to it's a good deal for the city. Oh yeah. All right. Questions then we need a motion. Motion to approve resolution 2025-22. Second. Uh, do you want me to do I want to read off the whole thing or is that fine to read the resolution? I think you're fine on that. Most Lisa tells us differently since it's a resolution. Second. Okay, we got a second from Council. Hey, uh, Councilman Plamer, you're first to vote going to your right. I I I

I Thank you. All right, let's talk some reaction. Uh, Porter Lane, uh, state subdivision culinary waterline. Uh, you got, uh, who submitted bids, the one we accepted. Do you have any questions? We have Kevin and Mike sitting right there. Or are you good with it?

Um, the price looks good. Okay. L. Uh, so we want to make a motion. Sure. I'll make a motion that we approve, hang on, I'm pulling it up. That we approve the bid award for Porter Lane estate subdivision culinary waterline to PNL construction in the amount of $78,996.50. There we go. There we go. Oh, I didn't let you do it. I'm sorry. I was laughing. I'm looking down at my computer. I thought you'd catch what I was saying, Gina. And so I did not. No, but I'll let Councilman Summers make the motion.

Sorry about that. We have We have a motion in a second. Councilwoman Mum. I I I Okay, that passes unanimously. All right, we got minutes. We got November 18 canvas. We got November 18, city council. We have December 2nd city council. That was just the the short one on the rec district. Uh um any changes to those minutes from what you see? If not, look for a motion for approval. So moved. Second. All in favor? I

I post passes unanimously. Okay. I'm working on uh some appointments. Uh helping out Councilwoman Hurst. I got to help the rest of you two. We got two for Parks and Wreck. I sent you their resumes. We got Clint Warick and Tyson Kremer. Uh so, um do we have a motion to approve Clint and Tyson to the parks and recreation committee? So moved and great. I mean their res their qualifications look fantastic. So I think

Clint's a new neighbor of mine. He's awesome. Good looking. And I've known Tyson for years. So they're both going to be great. You know, I appreciate when I first came on council. It's not anything written, but I promised that I try and get you resumes and I think it's made me try and get good people as well too, you know, that uh they're passionate about it, have some experience. So, so I'm glad that uh you looked at it, you know, what I said to you. So, uh so we have you got a motion to approve them? Yeah. Yeah, I made the motion. I don't We have a second. All in favor? I I

opposed. All right. Great. Um, let's move to monthly financial report. Now, Nate has Nate, you have two in here, don't you? That's right.

So, we have October and November. Now, neither one of those are quarter year ends, but uh, as always, he has highlighted a few things that help you out as you reviewed them. Um, and he is, uh, certainly here welcome, uh, to answer questions if needs be. If not, then they're there for your uh for your look and we presented those to you. Any questions on those? Okay. Uh let's go to Councilman Brian Plameumber. Uh Councilman Plamer, report on your committee assignments.

Oh, wonderful. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. The tree board update. The Centerville Tree Board continues to work uh with staff and residents to promote uh sustainable urban forest and long-term tree canopy goals. Uh the board members have remained highly engaged and uh they volunteered significant time in um education and uh resident outreach. Uh recently they've been uh supporting homeowners that have been impacted by past and ongoing public projects uh including coordinating around tree replacement and the use of the tree vouchers and uh currently that outreach is is meeting with some success. Uh the board's uh goal is to ensure tree losses are thoughtfully mitigated and uh that residents feel supported through the process. Uh the tree board is uh also advancing some public uh education initiatives that that include uh development and refinement of the city tree care guide uh currently uh and its connections to the urban forestry resources uh with emp excuse me with emphasis on proper planting, pruning, and long-term tree health. Um, these align with the broader goals of reducing tree loss, improving species selection, and strengthening Centerville's overall canopy. And uh, I just at the end of this year, I'd just like to say that I I really feel like the folks that have been volunteering on this uh, the tree and conservation board have done an

excellent job. Uh the chair, Heather Taylor, is uh very proactive and very uh organized. I really appreciate her. Uh Keith Roer, Sarah Stettler, Brandon Henderson, Barbara Allen, and Linda Porter have all done a great job in this effort and currently are reviewing the general plan and to see how uh they're uh they can support that with their goals on the tree board. Uh the CCC uh met on December 6th. They reviewed the recent emergency preparedness efforts uh that that happened on November 20th with the shake, rattle, and roll. Uh they uh did a walk through on that. Uh and the council, excuse me. Overall, it was scripted communications uh that went that they went through and they were effective and uh will remain largely unchanged. Uh key discussion points included ability to track updates in real time, clarity of communications for participants, ensuring afteraction information is ac accessible to stakeholders which I I think that uh has been done with um creation of uh group chats and um cloudbased uh sharing uh drives. Uh and I would actually like to just give a shout out to the folks on that council for the year end as well. Kelly Sharp being one of the most uh really

organized people I've ever met as far as uh emergency preparedness is concerned. uh and just all of the the folks that are on that uh on that council. And um and mayor, if I may just take the privilege uh right now after I finished that portion to say that I I truly am grateful and have just an immense amount of respect for Council Member Summer Hayes. Uh he's one of the most intelligent people I've ever come across. uh and his ability to really hone in on the issues where I will walk through the weeds occasionally. you bring me back and uh although I find that at times a little it's my own personal issues and for that I uh will say that I am very thankful to have had the opportunity to work with you and um I appreciate everything you've done for Senville. Thank you.

Thanks for the kind words. Thank you CL. That's very very uh mature of you. So, thanks so much. Anybody else? Uh, any questions for Councilman Plumber on his committees? Any pressing things with any of you? I just let people know that um they're they're obviously got 400 East shut down a little bit for the Dual Creek pipeline replacement. Um, Robert Burns told me today that they will be um taking time off between December, I think 23rd to January 5th. So that should I don't know how that's going to if it'll open back up a little bit or they're keeping one lane open time.

The temperatures sure have been good for them. It has been great, but just just FYI, I think they'll be out of they're going to take a break. There have been over the weekends and stuff they always keep one lane. Yeah, it seems like it's fine on the weekends. It seems like it's during the week and then um they're also they will be opening it up, but there will still be equipment there. So, okay, there you go. I didn't want me to say that. I just wanted Brad was waving them off. I was watching it from over here. Yeah. And then the other thing that they're getting ready to do is in about two weeks they're going to put out a bid for all of the meters that need to be installed on the south side. That is How many meters is that? A lot.

Yeah. Um 2500 3,000. Wow. It's a lot. Do they have the money for all that? They have a 70% grant from that came from some of the ARPA funds that the state received and they have to have that spent by October of 26. So it is it is going to be I there's some concern about getting that all spent. So hopefully we have a contractor and a mild winter that will with every other irrigation company trying to do the same thing. Right. Right. There's competition for labor and parts. Mhm. I think they h I think they were able to get the parts for the most part. Maybe Mike knows more than I do about that part, but

Mike's not allowed to talk, so he's just going to stay quiet. So anyway, that is going to have some impact on the south end of town in the upcoming weeks and months. So, thank you. All right, mayor's report. Okay. Um, first thing I've reached out to Bryce already uh if we're going to spend money on a newsletter, which we've decided we do quarterly, it was a fabulous newsletter. It was packed full of information. Uh the only one that I've ever done, so it's a one done for me.

Well, every page was useful and I've had multiple uh residents uh say that that was the case. So, I thought so, too. Obviously, Chief had people reach out. Uh I'm assuming you wrote the all the the the bike stuff, right? The center fold. Yeah. Yeah. It was the center fold. It was a sexy one there.

But very good. Thank you. Um the next thing uh uh this bit of we we we weren't here on the second uh attended a day of the national league with uh Gina and Brandt and we uh and maybe I'll report on it sometime uh but I won't deny but we all all three of us attended a real night great session on civil discourse in politics which was really really good. Uh, I think Brandt might have don't want us to put words in his mouth, but he went he's been went a couple days and I think he said that was maybe the best. Um, I appreciate those of you that were able to go to the Farming Community Arts Center uh with um Wasuch Front Regional Council, our transportation and write our uh little messages on the board about uh Front Runner Station, about Bike Pass, about uh our uh uh exit off the freeway, that type of thing. Um so, thank you for doing that. Um fireboard meeting yesterday. Uh couple of big things. We they're we approved the purchase of three ambulances uh which will be coming in in uh July. Ambulances aren't cheap. They're about $385,000 a piece. Um, we also approved uh uh a contribu a contribution agree agreement training ground uh over there just north of uh or south of the refinery. Um HF Sinclair's donating property. It's the property that

Yeah, I was wondering that one we had talked about.

Yeah. uh that they're going to be used for real training facility where they can't actually light fires. Uh they're contributing the ground the at South Davis Metro Fires. Uh it will be contributing money towards construction. It will be a facility that will be able to be used by uh other fighting organizations. uh our attorney, uh Todd Godfrey, uh I I questioned him on, hey, this ground we're getting is free and clear, uh blah blah blah, all the legal stuff. Um and he answered affirmative and and then uh we talked to uh Commissioner Stevenson, who's one of the choir board chairs. They have one in Leighton, and I guess it's really used. So, we're hoping that will be a really good facility. they they don't have a facility right now where they can actually train with actual fire. So, those are kind of a couple big things that I usually don't necessarily get into the specifics of what we did there, but when it's a couple big things like that, then I I did want to inform you about that. Um, then the next thing is meeting with our legisl legislators. I've reached out to our four our two representatives, our two senators. I've heard back from two of them. I just reached out yesterday. Uh it's it's appearing that like it it'd be the work session on the 20th. That's about when we did it last year. It was the first day of the session. Uh most of them I think so because they're going to be in the session so long they take vacation first part of the year because I couldn't get Representative Cutler or Senator Wiler around for that first meeting on the 6th. So uh so that's what we're going to be shooting for. I'll tie down Senator Adams and Representative Ward to see if that works as well too for them. Paul said the 27th, but he

said I'll make 20th worked. Wer said the 20th. So, kind of what we'll shoot for there. Does that sound okay, Brent? Uh, and then the last thing, um, I'm going to I take these appointments serious that I'm going to make. Uh, I know some of you need to need to know now, so I'll try and be quick on it, but it's usually you're usually uh, at least two boards or commissions for you. Um, and then then I have a few more I have to do, you know, as mayor, but um, you like the fire board, that sort of thing. So, uh, your skills, your unique qualifications. Uh, there's going to be have have to be couple changes cuz, uh, Councilman Summerhaz obviously is going to not be over the tree border over South Davis Wreck. And so, um, so I'm I'm wrestling with that, but please give me any input uh um uh of I can't promise you what you're going to have. I'll do my best uh to meet your uh what you like and what you don't like, but uh please give me input. And also, I appreciate Councilman Sum responding back to me about uh the challenge I gave you last meeting. Talked to your uh

I completed my homework assignment.

Yeah. Committee had see how things are going. Uh you know, um and like I say, I'll continue. Uh, oh, please reach out if if you're if you're short of members. Jennifer and I met uh a week or two ago was Jennifer and we know where we're short. We know what I'm shooting to fill. Filled a couple tonight. Uh I got I got to fill at least one planning commissioner, potentially two more in the next three or four months. I have uh a couple names right now people there that I think uh I can bring to you probably next meeting. but your committees and boards just just please let me know uh of if there's any concerns, successes, anything that you might have going on that uh can help you with. And then the last thing on uh LPC, uh we have three voting members, two non- voting members. Um uh Councilwoman Hurst uh has been good about starting on January 12th every Monday at the state capital at noon. uh assuming you want to continue that. I'm leaning towards keeping you there, but uh unless there's somebody else that can go every Monday at noon, I pop up from my office and you can al also join online as well too. You don't always have to be in person, but LPC will start on the 12th. That's that first one's in North Salt Lake and then uh then after that they're they're up at the capital. But um so uh but we realize that all of you should be following legislation and we will call on you as well too to make calls to representatives or senators uh if something you know really affects our city uh even if you're not part of LPC. So um any questions for me? Thank you. City manager report.

Thanks Mr. Mayor. I do have a few things. So, uh, follow up with the NLC conference. I did attend two days. Um, I will share it's a city summit. Uh, you have to attend the right session. There were some disappointing sessions that just weren't applicable. But when you found the right sessions, they were very impactful to help you understand that just get in the civil discourse. If you go on that track, that was by far the most beneficial. But there were some areas where it's like, what am I doing here? I'm not quite sure this applies to Senator. Yeah. Um I can go into more detail later, but the civil discourse that was very helpful. Um at first I was really disappointed and I attended the right session. I was like this is really beneficial. So it's when Jean and I showed up. He just needed some company.

That's right. Uh actually just Serve was I learned a lot about Just Serve and appreciation for Just Serve actually grew. um they were actually a main sponsor and and you've actually attended a session where they talked about all the different communities like Tacoma, Washington talking about how impactful it is in their community and that was that was pretty neat to see the stories across the country who have just served. So that was I think probably the biggest takeaway for me was learning about the organization a little bit more. Um, a fun little uh trivia thing I learned over the last past week is is merry Christmas. This is a holiday themed is that so the conversation has been you know exmas and and people say don't take Christ out of Christmas. Uh the funny thing is is the X is actually the Greek letter of of I can't say this right. I think you want to say Kai. Uh Cairo is actually Christristus. So you're actually not the X doesn't take Christ out of Christmas. In fact,

you're just saying Christmas again. I didn't know that, but that's really what that means. So, I didn't know that. So, kind of cool. Um, I do want to thank Spencer. I didn't want to take a minute. I've really appreciated our relationship over the last four years. So, thank you for serving uh diligently and and doing it. It's been awesome to work with you. You will be for surely missed um as we have a new chapter and and Rick's coming in. I'm really excited for that opportunity as well, but at the same time, I I really do miss our friendship we've developed and the conversations we've had and and so your outlook and helping with developers and and trying to find a way to find that balance instead of the city just being so strong one way, but understanding the developer point of view has always been helpful. So, appreciate your practical approach uh to this instead of it just being you're not a very good politician. I'll say that. Uh and I think that that's a compliment, right? um you looked at it objectively and practically. So, thank you for your leadership and your friendship over the years. So, thank you for your kind words.

My phone, everybody has my phone number. So, if you just want to vent or cry or, you know, chat, go to um and that's all I have. I do have a couple more things, but they're not applicable. So, that's all I have, Mr. Questions for me. Any questions, Brent? All right. If I'm not here on Tuesday nights next year, I'll be at the $5 movie with Spencer.

Temptation. I'm not aware of any needs for close session. Right. To ajourn. Yes. There you go. Thank you.