Planning and Zoning Meeting - Regular Meeting

Right. It is 6:03. I'll go ahead and call this meeting of the shirts planning and zoning commission to order. We don't have any of our alternates tonight. What you see is what you get. We'll go ahead and move to the hearing of residents. Do we have anybody signed up? No. All right. Item number 4 A on our consent agenda is the minutes from the November 5th regular meeting. Any questions, comments from commissioners? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Make a motion to approve the consent agenda.

A second. That is a motion to approve the consent agenda by Commissioner McMaster, second by Commissioner Brown. No other comments. Please vote. I have seven votes. Can we publish that? That motion carries. All right. Item 5A, PLZC20250240. Hold a public hearing and make a recommendation on a zone change request for approximately 44 acres of land from general business district GB to approximately tw 22 acres as single family residential district R2 and approximately 22 acres as single family residential district R6. Generally located approximately 1,412 ft west of the intersection of Eert Road and Green Valley Road, also known as Guadalupe C. Guadalupe property identification number 67959 and 640006 city of shirts, Texas. Daisy,

good evening commissioners. PLC 2025240, a reason request for approximately 44 acres to R2 and R6. Daisy Marquez, senior planner. Here's a subject property outlined in green. Um, it is two parcels. Um, it is currently zoned general business district. It is undeveloped. To the north we have the Homestead PDD and some other general business district properties. And as you know if you've been in that area, Homestead is currently being developed and you can see homes going up. We still have some portions that are undeveloped. To the south we have Green Valley Road right away. And then um that area outside of city limits is actually city of Cibilo ETJ. And then to the east we have single family residential district R2 and that is the Acriman subdivision. We sent out 47 public notices on November 19th and we have only received two responses, one in favor and one in opposition. And we will be posting a public notice in the San Antonio Express newspaper before city council. We did notify the school district of the zone change request and two signs were placed on the property by the applicant. So again, here is the zone chain request. Um it is currently zone general business district. It is a total of 44 acres and the applicant is proposing to split it 22 acres as R2 and another 22 acres as R six. So here are the dimensional and development requirements for what is being proposed and um what is existing and you can see the differences um R2 and R six are 70x120 lots and 60x120 lots. So that's the big difference between the R2 and R six. And then again, it is a major difference from a commercial type of zoning that would require at least 10,000 square feet. And then UDC section 2154D for the criteria of approval whether the proposed zone change implements the policies of adopted comp plan. So the

comp plan does have this whole area designated as complete neighborhood. Um, and as you're familiar, it requires a different type of housing, local neighborhood, commercial, and supporting uses. So, the proposed R2 and R six zoning districts are very similar to the existing uses in zoning in the area. So, this implements the policies in the intent of the future land use designation of complete neighborhood. Two, whether this zone change promotes health, safety, and general welfare. And again, the dimensional development requirements for R2 and R six are 70 by120 and 611 120 and they're compatible with the media area. Um, kind of just picking at the homestead PDD, those are 55x120 lots, 65x120 lots and town homes. And then the acriman subdivision is R2, so 70x120 what the applicant is um proposing. And our engineering department did review the traffic summary submitted with the zone change and um they came to the conclusion that the proposed residential zoning is less intense than the existing zoning. Um thus it wouldn't increase traffic in the area. And three, whether the uses permitted by the proposed change will be consistent and appropriate with the existing uses in the immediate area. Again, um the area allows for single family residential and they're proposing single family residential and even the homestead PDD is single family residential with lower density multif family town homes at 12 units per acre. So what's being proposed tonight is consistent with the existing uses in the media area. And four, staff has ensured that the proposed zone change meets the UDC requirements. We did notify the school district and we did not notify fire, EMS, and police. And EMS did not have specific concerns about the zone change, but they did want to note that an increase in population will increase

call volumes, which will require more efforts to cover the added call volumes. And due to the proposed zone change implementing the policies of the comprehensive plan feature line use map and the compatibility with the uses in the media area staff recommends approval of PLC 2025 0240. And then the applicant does not have a presentation but if you have any specific questions for them um they're here.

Thank you Daisy. All right. Well this is a public hearing. We'll go ahead and open the floor. It is 606. Anybody [sighs] questions, comments? Okay. Well, it's still 606. I'll go ahead and close it. Commissioners, any questions? No. I have one question, Daisy. So, um, with SP15, has has shirts implemented anything in the development code for if someone wants to take advantage of the the ability to do the 3,000 foot lots or

So, I'm just going to tell you straight up front, we haven't looked into SP15 and I am not knowledgeable to speak on that. So, we haven't made any UDC changes or looking to make any UDC changes for that. Okay. So, if someone approached and said, "Hey, I'm zoned for single family." I mean there wouldn't be there's not a process yet in terms of okay we're going to acknowledge that. No sir everything is the same as it has been. Okay. You have a question.

Yeah. Um could we see the um [clears throat] the zone map again? And um well actually couple well yeah this one will work. Um for the applicant, uh have you can you give us some idea of the how you plan access to the site?

Good evening. My name is John McKenz with M&A Defco. Um, as far as access, right now we know that Green Valley pro provides access and then we're also uh working um to complete our portion of the Schwab route. So you'll have two points of access there. And then is our plan on here? No. Okay. So let me give you just a an idea. On Green Valley, we have an access point. And then also where Acriman stubs in, we also have a stub there. Okay. And then on the leftand portion that gets access from the Schwab Road.

Okay. So basically, I guess Schwab Road will bisect your correct. And and the only reason I asked is because on one of the slides it talked about gated community. Is that what you're planning? Not at this time. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's allowed. Maybe it may be correct. Yeah. So, thank you. Yeah. As as a retired fire marshal, I was pretty much overgated communities, but yeah, it's all about access. I Okay. All righty. Well, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. Questions, comments, motions,

Mr. Chairman. Um, I make a motion that we recommend approval of PLZC 20250240. Second.

That is a motion to recommend approval of PLC20250240 by Commissioner Outlaw, seconded by Commissioner Carbone. There's no other comments. Please vote. That is seven votes. Can we publish that? That motion carries. All right. Item six. Any requests for future agendas by commissioners? No. Any announcements? I got one. Outlaw, you are first. Go ahead. Yours are still on. Oh, no. I That's a leftover habit, John. Okay. I'm sorry. [laughter]

Um, couple things. So this month uh every year it used to be rock and roll time for in San Antonio where the marathon would go on and San Antonio is taking that over and uh among the other crazy people out there this weekend I'll be out there running the half marathon and I want to wish anybody who is doing that good best of luck and and safe and health and um and for the people who stand on the side of the road and and cheer for us thank you because it means a lot. Um, I also wanted to announce that uh, city council place 7 elections started today through the 16th and election day will be the 20th. Uh, you can vote at Elbell and Sigin. Uh, the hours for Elbell are 8 to 5 Monday through Friday. The only Saturday voting will be actually on the election day, the 20th of December. And then I wanted to say happy holidays, merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, whatever you celebrate to the city staff. You guys do a phenomenal job. and I want you to enjoy your break off because uh you're good people. And so, merry Christmas to you all and everyone on the staff because we won't see each other until after the new year. So,

I just wanted to apologize to my uh colleagues for missing last month's meeting. It was um an unexpected five-day extension of my trip to Big Ben. And uh I did watch you all. I I was fortunate enough to have some uh internet. I watched the um I watched the meeting stream on YouTube and um very interesting both both arguments on both sides. So once again I had fully intended to be here but u the motor home had other ideas. So [snorts]

well we are glad that you're back. Anybody else? No. Anything from staff? It's good to hear that apparently staff get some time off at the holidays, too. I was unaware of that, but okay, we'll see. We'll leave an hour early one day. Um, so real quick, uh, the the kind of announcement I have for you guys is just really an update. Um, you may recall that this last year, the earlier in the year, the state legislature was in session. Um, and from that we get new laws, changes to laws, things like that. Among the many laws that affect kind of what we do, how we do it was one that affects the makeup of the capital improvements advisory committee, the CIA. And you may recall that you guys generally meet a couple times a year unless we're doing an update for the semianual report. And that's because the law had said that you can essentially use your planning and zoning commission to serve that role. and that you really just need also a rep. One of the one you need a rep that is uh involved in the real estate development or building industries. And then if you charge those fees to properties in the ETJ, you need somebody who lives in the ETJ as that rep. And so we have Brian Jones, the realtor rep, and then we have uh Dr. Pinshorn, who serves the ETJ rep. Well, one of the changes that came about with state law is they changed that. The legislature doesn't want us using our planning and zoning commission to fill that role anymore. And so what they did is they changed it to say uh now it has to be not less than five people. So you can have five or more folks serve in that role. And that not less than 50% of those members uh have to be from the real estate development or building community and they can't be employees or officials of the city. So it can't be city staffs, can't be city council members. We understand that appointed uh board commission members can can fill that role still. You don't fall into that category. But what that means

though um is we really need to redo how we're doing it in part because what we don't want to do is keep P&Z as it and then based on the number of you guys who are involved in either the real estate, the development or building industries, then I've got to add a whole bunch more folks. So, I've got this committee of a dozen people now or 15 people and it's hard to get a quorum. Um, that becomes the challenge. And so, the the thought would be is we're gonna in accordance with state law, we're going to change that. So, we'll keep the thought would be to keep Peninsorn as the ETJ rep. He's familiar with it, been doing it. Keep Brian Jones. He fills one of the real estate positions. I believe we have a couple of you guys who are involved in the real estate industry and can fill that role. That's right. can keep filling that role. And then the thought would be is maybe we get uh one or two others to go with five or six. And we think what we can do is between um Pinorn and Brian Jones and then our what happens to be our makeup on the commission now, those individuals, but it would just be a little bit different in that it wouldn't be PNZ. And so some of you who are not involved in the real estate building or development would be the ones to not be on likely. a couple of you guys still would be, but the idea was to keep it small, five or six to to meet that requirement and to be able to make the quorums. Um, we'll probably work with folks on schedules. We may still do those meetings at 5:00 on Wednesday, but rather than kind of how it does now because it's PNZ, we sort of fluidly roll. It'll be sort of a a start with a hard stop to hit the start of P&Z, right? And we'll have to adjust from there. Uh but if the majority on PNZ, we know it works for the other two on Wednesdays. Uh we may come in a little bit early like 5:00, 5:30 or adjust the PNC meeting back. Yes, sir.

How did they define involved with real estate by the state?

Yeah. So it it becomes there there's a little bit debate. You got a little bit of flexibility. I will say this, what our position would be is that we would want a real clear connect that their profession, their job is with that, right? So, if I've got a realtor, a licensed realtor, that's what you do for a job. That's a pretty clear one. If you work for a builder, that's a pretty clear one. If you work as a developer and go, I developed this project, this project, this project, whether here or somewhere else, that's pretty clear. We This is not one we will likely stretch that definition and push the limit on it. We'll go with a fairly safe coin. Yep, we all agree they meet this requirement because what we tend to find and I tend to find with impact fees is some of impact fees is very complicated, very confusing. Right? You rarely have had people stand up and say, "I have issues with the methodology of the study." Right? Most times people show up, it's just what's the dollar amount? That seems high, that seems low, right? And so what we don't want to do is have something that folks can latch on to and say because I don't really understand the fundamental issue, I'm going to try to cloud the issue and say, well, are they really in those? So that's the answer. That's how we're going to look at it. Now, again, we'll make sure the city attorney is good with it. Um, if that if that kind of makes sense. It does,

but there's not there's not a clear definition. It says what it says. The issue would be is if somebody were to challenge us, take us to court, we've got to be able to defend it. We would rather be able to defend it pretty easily than than have a stretch that this person's a developer because they did a they I don't know, they built a shed in their backyard 20 years ago and that counts, right? Not that we would, but we we want that as a pretty clear thing. Um, and and I think the most obvious for most probably smaller communities is going to be uh realtors, you know, because it's a pretty clean, easy to define and and not that they're a dime a dozen, right? Don't get me wrong, but we we don't, you know, I mean, I can't remember the last time we really had a developer or builder sit on a board of commission. We occasionally do, but it's it, you know, we have a fair number of realtors who engage in the community, and that's great.

So, I have a couple of questions. Yeah. I guess going forward when we look for individuals to fill P&Z roles, we maybe want to have individuals who have that background fill in that kind of realtor or real estate bubble for us because then it would be harder for individuals to have the capital improvements kind of meetings and and and have that quorum. And then second, uh, did the did the state come up with any way to maybe train individuals to be qualified to to make meet that new requirement? It sounds like uh there would be some type of course or some type of certification that the state would say, hey, listen, if they went through this and your city paid for it, then that would meet the intent of the new law.

Yeah. So, to the to the second question, no, the state didn't do that. And I'll give you what my opinion is, and this is just mine based on watching some of the some of the hearings on this, right? So, what I think I think the criticism to the legislatures from the development community was is, hey, planning and zoning commissions in these cities, they're filled with residents who are concerned about growth and development in their community. And occasionally you have builders or developers there, right? But inherently they're not kind of on our side. They tend to take an adversarial role. I mean even as you think about how we frame this discussion, right? Somebody's got to pay for this infrastructure. Do you want it to be new development or do you want it to be existing residents and business? And frankly, what we tend to get from you guys who tend to be existing residents businesses is yeah, hey, new development needs to pay its way. I think the intent of this law was to have the other side of that if you considered there to be multiple sides versus everybody working the same thing represented and that was the fundamental reason and no the state doesn't think about this. I don't disagree with you that likely what we would do is say um yeah, if we've got a good qualified candidate to serve on PNC and they happen to fill one of those three categories of profession that probably gives them a leg up, but I would likely say and I'm going to be and this is not just because I'm standing here in front of you guys and if you sit on another border commission, don't tell them I said this, but I mean I think PNZ is probably our most important border commission in the city. I mean it it really is. you guys have the most impact on the community. EDC is kind of right up there, too. And so, for me, it's most important that we get the best qualified candidate. We get people who are really engaged. We get people who think about the issues, right? We get people who are open-minded and listen. We get people who sort of speak up with their opinion. And if that means that the folks don't have that background, I would still say

put the best qualified candidate on P&Z. And if it means that over time we kind of have fewer PNZ commissioners on there, so be it. I still think it's good to have at least a couple of folks, two or three if we can, who are on PNZ because I think you guys deal with the development issues. How many times, as Commissioner Outlaw said, we need to deal with this challenge we're having that infrastructure is not keeping up with growth. and and I think it's really helpful if you're on CIA to understand that implication. So I agree with you in principle, but but I think we're always going to if if they ask staff, which they don't always, we're always going to say give the best candidate, whoever that is, and if we got to kind of deal with the CIA thing, so be it. It's kind of my opinion.

So basically, this was developer driven, working for developers, working for commercial construction. That's part of our process is we're [clears throat] g we're going to plan for this as far as our bids concerned. But now developers were like we feel we're not getting enough emphasis on our side. So we kind of push the legislature a little bit. Is that kind of what it is?

To be blunt that's that's it. I mean that's my opinion. I don't I don't even think that the legislators would disagree with that. I think they would say yeah inherently the way this thing was set up you know we don't have this right. And so that's why you heard a lot of the legislation that changed was driven by developers saying housing costs are too expensive. It's city regulations and fees that are killing us on this thing. And so if you look at those and you look at who testifies and you watch where legislators seem to pay the most attention, it tends to be folks from the development industry, not when a city staff person gets up there or somebody from Texas Municipal League gets up there. Um but but that's the way it works. And I don't disagree that both sides need to be involved. I think it's a valid argument to say and I I said it. You raise these fe fees up super high that has a real impact on affordability of housing in your communityability and sustainability community. I agree with that 100%. Now what the solution is for that. It's where we disagree because I think everything's got pros and cons, right? You've heard me say that there's no right answer. You just need to make an informed decision understanding the pros and cons and you work forward accordingly with it.

Yeah. Because that goes in the process when you're going through as far as bids concerned working for basically a supplier for the business field and home construction. It comes down to well now we want to pay a little cheaper because we have to do this infrastructure and so they do a lot more bidding. I see where they're coming from. I think there it does have some valid concerns but we need to have the right people in the right place.

Yeah. And and the last thing I'll say real quick on this remember is I I think we go sort of above and beyond even as I called some of the rep staff people to say hey here's how we do it. You may think about it, right? So, we always bounce this off our economic development corporation, right? Because they have a role. Now, we make clear CIA is the recommending body. I want your input. Let's not get in lanes and step on toes, but we value what they have to say. And again, at the end of the day, it's city council who's elected by the people. They decide what it is and set it up. And so, it's a recommending role. So, I think the system still works for us. Just wanted to let you know there's going to be this change. We're going to be working with council. So likely would it be and I don't want people's feelings to get hurt. We'll probably talk to the people who have that uh real estate background on the committee about are you willing to serve on this? It doesn't change substantially. And then probably work to maybe have a couple of commissioners on it. So if you have interest in it, uh you can catch me after this and say, "Yeah, I'm interested if there's a spot." Um but again, it'll mean some of y'all who don't have that wouldn't be on just because we don't want to get it too big.

All right. Well, thank you, Brian. Thank you. Any other staff announcements? No. All right. Well, 7A information is available in your packets about current projects and city council uh statuses. Uh it is 6:24 again. Have a happy holidays everyone. Enjoy your time. See you in January. We are adjourned.