Community Planning & Transportation Committee - Regular Meeting

[snorts] is great. How about yourself? Same. Actually, after work, it was terrible. [laughter]

All right, everybody. It's 4:00, so we'll go ahead and get started with the community planning and transportation committee for Thursday, October 23rd, 2025. We have three items on the agenda. The first one is our regular presentation of the monthly public transit wrership report. Uh, this one for September. We have Taylor here from staff to go over.

Thank you, mayor and council members. Uh yeah, I'm Taylor Johnson, your transit and parking program manager in public works. Uh as always, we have a few updates here on the the memo and your packet. Uh as well as some wrership numbers we can uh go over and answer any other questions that you guys have. Um going through the memo here, I just want to highlight a few things on the maintenance and vehicle procurement. Uh we appreciate council approving uh acceptance of grant funds, moving some monies around, and then the authorization to purchase of three large buses last Tuesday. So, we're busy uh getting all that paperwork done um with the Washington state contract folks and getting that PO issued and getting those on order. So, those will be the last three big buses that we need to replace as a since we've inherited the system. So, and it'll be a while before we need to replace them because they're 12-year buses. So,

we will have replaced all of them in the last five years. Correct. because we inherited all the buses we inherited were old and we've replaced all of them. And then I did get a question the other day from someone about I guess one of the older ones was in service and they asked about when we were updating all the buses. I was like actually there's only two left. So we're almost there. Which you know some of those older ones Yeah. They're still on the road. They're still they're not as nice on the inside but they're still performing fairly well. So

yeah. Um, and then, uh, moving along to the bottom of the first page on the central Oklahoma long-range transit plan. Uh, we came to council last on September 23rd to give an update. And that was, uh, likely the last update to you all. Uh, it'll go through a few more committees and then on to ACOG likely in November where we're anticipating adoption of that. And then, uh, ACOG staff is is, uh, we're going to be working with them on looking at how the implementation plan or action plan for that long range transit plan works. So, uh, just a reminder, it's a culmination of all the local planning work for transit, uh, making some recommendations, but, um, at a high level, what can we do to to move transit forward, um, collaboratively in the ACOG region, uh, for into the future. So, we'll be working on that in in next uh, calendar year. And then on the back page, uh, it's the last bullet at the top. Uh, technically under the grant section, we talk about the TE set grant. We um came to council a few times to talk about embark well and so we are pursuing that grant. Uh it's the physical activity section of of tet which is the the uh tobacco settlement endowment trust and hoping to launch a pilot program for that embark well which is senior focused transit to you know help encourage health and wellness uh for that population um over 60 is what they do in Oklahoma City right now. And as we discussed, we could change that if if council um wants us to, but we're at least going to pursue that grant funding. It's 100% which is great if we we could possibly get some additional points if we asked for um less than 100%, but we felt like that was the most prudent thing to do at this this moment. And we'll be going to you on October 23rd with a grant resolution. Um hoping to get that approved so we can submit that. The deadline's November 18th, I believe. So, and then lastly on the Norman Transit Center parking lot

project, uh that we had a final walkthrough on Monday. So, that project is it's good to go. It looks great. We're pretty happy with it. If you drive by or stop by and look at it, um hope everybody everybody else is happy with it. It's uh something we knew we were going to have to do, but we were hoping we could limp through with the asphalt a little longer, but it just wasn't becoming Yeah.

Moving on to the writership. So, uh, in September for both Embark, uh, the fixed route service and plus, we had 47,643 riders. That's a little bit more than last September, which was 44,679. Um, so again, like last month, we're starting to see uh what I would call uh good regular growth. Last couple years, we've seen 20 25% wrership. So, now we're still increasing, but not nearly as much as that, which is still fine in the in the industry. [clears throat] Um, I would like to point out on the table on the right there, uh, just some of the the 112, the 121, and 122 are over 30% over last September. Um, so that's that's great. They're still, uh, gaining uh, locally. And then the the Main Street 110 and East Lindsay 111 are down slightly, but uh, you know, the main streets [clears throat] it's it's it's 50 riders and and the 111 it's obviously our most heavily ridden route. So it's a over a thousand but still a very heavily utilized route. So try to keep it in perspective uh and and point back to uh the numbers we were doing last year but obviously as we go forward we may not see as much gain and then um

and Saturday service for Main Street is up 35% though. Yeah. So you know it it can vary by month too. We've talked about that. how many weekdays versus uh weekend days and just events, game days, things like that. But overall, still uh healthy growth and healthy ridership for us. And I always like to point to the ridership for service hour for fixed route uh weekday is still 22 over 20. Uh still very good for a system our size, which is great. And uh which routes are 30 minutes right now? The only one that's not 30 minutes is 110.

Okay. So that's actually uh in our memo. We like to keep this in front of council and for whoever reviews the whoever reviews the uh monthly report so it can kind of get mundane keeping it in there but we like to like to show it. Our first priority in our longrange plan was Sunday service which as we talked about we did with microtransit and we can evaluate whether we want to put fixed routes on Sunday and move microtransit around or not. Yeah. And then our second uh priority was uh making route 112 or west Lindsay to 30 minutes which we did uh just last yeah last year. Yeah.

And so our third priority is that increase frequency on route 110. Um and then uh the next one is that new route to Southeast Norman. So u all of them are 30 minutes except for the main street. Right. I had a I spoke to a class at Norman North on Monday and one of the students asked about that and said that she rides it. Okay. And asked when we were going to make it 30 minutes. So I told her the goal was actually to get the 30 minute ones to 15 minutes and the hour one to 30 minutes and then someday all of them be 15 minutes when someday. that that we were working on that but I and I had thought that there was only one more left that was 30 minute or that was an hour I mean so

but they were asking about and that's technically the next step uh certainly if council wants us [clears throat] to pursue that uh we could that's one of the more easier improvements is adding a bus to a route uh we had to make sure we have the capacity obviously and um add more contractual costs with embarks for u for embark more drivers but and do you have the cost breakdown of that. I know you do. Not in the memo, but uh that we don't I don't keep it in there because, you know, union costs go up with embark uh bus prices go up if we have to buy a bus. So, if

we like to refresh those ideas every once in a while, but until we're uh really thinking about it, we want to not refresh those costs because change a driver, but like if one of the older buses still has some life in it, maybe it only ran It ran for 30 minutes during four hours a day or something. Yeah. During a peak peak time, it would run 30 minutes. I don't know. Something like that. Yeah, we weren't having to buy a whole new bus, right? It's not running 30 minutes the entire day. Just specifically,

yeah, we could certainly looking at look at that. Uh, from a rider perspective, I know that it's nicer to keep everything the same. So, you're not guessing when is the 30 minute service, when is it not? Um, and then from a I know what fleet's going to tell me if I go back with that is, well, let's not keep the older bus when you want to replace, right? So, just things like that to consider. Um, and we might be able to get grant money if we need a new bus to expand service, too. We could look at that. Not just replacement like we've been doing, but actual checking the box that we want to expand service. Yeah. Um let us know what the cost to do the 110 route 30 minutes.

That'd be helpful. [clears throat and cough] And then um so I know you have a few other things on your agenda. Moving to Norman on demand writership. uh that last page on your packet or in this uh part of the packet, we had uh just under 3,000 riders on Norman on demand in September 2025 last month and we had 4760 last September. We talked last month about how uh the there's a bucket of hours for the whole year and VIA tries to spread that out as best they can. You know, overload it sometimes at the beginning of the year. uh this this year they've kind of tapered it back and then um just refreshing a conversation we had last year about fairs and promo rides and things. So we raised the fair from $2 to $3 and then we uh as of September middle of September we did away with the six free rides when you sign up because we're now in our third year. We didn't feel like we need to have that promo continuously running. We could bring it back every once in a while. And um VIA had hinted that they think there might be some fraud at people just creating emails to get free rides. So we think the raised uh rate or race raised fair plus the uh reduction in the promo and then just trying to rightsize the the service level at certain times of the year is resulting in that uh lowering. But the great thing about Norman on on demand and on demand service in general is you can taper back the service if you're not getting as much demand. So, that's what they've been doing. And, um, we're hopeful, well, if if the demand kind of flattens out or decreases over the year, maybe we could have some cost savings for next year that we could propose to council or some possible areas of expansion if we kept the contract the same. But we're reviewing all that, watching it closely, and um just wanted to highlight that because it

obviously says a 38% reduction in rides. But um with that, there's opportunities to increase the uh the user uh satisfaction level of the service to try to decrease weight times um and and different things. So I also wanted to point out that uh last September we had uh a total number of accounts of 8100 and as of last month we have uh 13,800 as a college town. I think we get an influx of new accounts every year. So that's not to be um surprising and we've gained about 4% since August into September. So we'll always get more and more accounts. But um just want to point out that we do have a high high number of accounts and about a third of them um have completed more than five rides. Um you can kind of see that in the narrative. So about 4,400. So some people try it once, maybe use it every once in a while. Um some people try it, don't use it ever again. But there are a good handful of active users that are utilizing the service. Any more questions [clears throat] about transit I can answer before I change hats. The next item comments, questions transit related.

Um, everything at the transit center now the parking lot's done. Everything everything else going? Yeah. So, um, parking lot's great. Uh, there are some other to-dos that we like to get done. Just general building maintenance. the the the bird netting. I feel like we talked about that before under the awning has caused me grief for a little bit. You know, holes pop up here and there. And that storefront, I think we mentioned it's not going to last forever. Still the original and it's getting a lot of people coming in and out of it. But those are just things we're working with facility maintenance on and try to the lobby storefront. Yeah. Sorry.

Extruded aluminum. It's Yeah, they do have a useful life. Exactly. So, uh there's things that we need to keep working on, but overall, uh still a great reuse, great facility for what we needed it to be. Um there are a handful of incidents every now and then if you have questions about security. Uh you know, that's what they're there for is to if there's some arguing or something going on, they take care of it or call PD if necessary. But um happy to dive into that into future meetings if you'd like, but I don't want to take everything and lay it at council speed if we don't need to. Just a followup because you mentioned it last time you hear about how y'all did that bathroom change over. How's have y'all seen a good return on that?

Yeah, it's not having as many issues. Changing out that toilet really really helped as much as uh it sounds silly, but uh we did have an issue with the uh water line that brings uh water to the toilet over the last few weeks. Um, but other than that, it's just been really it's been fine. So, make sure you right size your your equipment, I guess. I don't know. [laughter] It's interesting. Okay. Very good. Anything else? Okay. Thank you, Chair.

All right. Item number two on the agenda is a discussion regarding proposed updates to the city of Norman's parking management plan, including potential parking leases for food trucks. So, I thought about I'd spin my chair around like I just sat down. [laughter]

Yeah. As your transit and parking manager, uh I'm here to talk about the proposed updates to the city of Norman's parking management plan. Scott's here to help me answer some questions because uh you know uh parking is a a fun topic and uh it's been around in public works for a while but we recently inherited a couple years ago so might need some historic knowledge and things. So moving on to how we manage parking. Uh we come to council every month for transit but we don't come very often for parking. So just want to uh remind everybody of how it works at the city. So uh we kind of act like the lead. Um people can call ask us questions if we can't do the thing we'll we know the people to help with that and but we can't uh manage the system at least right now without help from other divisions and departments. So traffic control, we took over the the management of the metered parking from them in terms of maintenance of the pay stations, collecting the revenue, uh coordinating everything, but they still help us with signage. Um, and uh they're still a good resource for historical knowledge on the on the system itself, striping of the parking lots, uh obviously things like that. Police uh obviously still do parking enforcement. We coordinate with them. If there's any issues, we let them know, hey, pay station's not working or there's going to be a they probably already know about closures of streets or things like that, but they let us know about those things if we haven't heard about them. city clerk's office. They've been doing the um uh ass or the Grey Street lot lease, managing that for I think ever since it's been created and we've been talking about taking that over from them um just as one less thing for them to do, but obviously it would fall into our our area to um manage at some point. So, we've been talking with them for about a year or so about that. And then municipal court, uh, if there is any fees or citations given, they obviously handle those. And, um, we coordinate with them. Sometimes if they claim that

they, uh, paid and they need a receipt, we can send it to them and help them get that information, things like that. [clears throat] Uh, on the parking enforcement, uh, we don't have it on the weekends. Um, that is a complaint I get. Uh, in the future, do you think that we would have parking enforcement on the weekend? Um, I I guess it was my understanding that we at least enforced it on campus corner on Saturdays. So, that campus corner has its own parking enforcement officer, right? Did that would be my that's my last understanding, but I'd have to check. I get it from the neighborhoods mainly.

So, not paid parking specifically. Okay. So, uh yeah, that would be a good a great PD question. That's uh just making sure what they put out there service levelwise. And I I think if they would call in and PD in general, they'd be able to handle that as an officer, too. But that's just my assumption. Neighborhoods complaining about uh [snorts] on the weekends, massive parking, and then sometimes on the grass, sometimes not. I know that during game days it's kind of lifted if somebody wants to sell their on space,

correct? But they still can't park in front of yellow curbs and all those uh safety rules. And parking enforcement is out, as probably a lot of people know, in full force enforcing those yellow curbs, fire hydrants, and other uh public safety aspects. Yeah. No, I definitely saw them off Lindsay around Preston Plow last Friday. Yeah. Yeah. Doing [clears throat] exactly that, which and that's a neighborhood I heard from, so Okay. No complaints there. Yeah. And I think we only have the four officers now. We did have the the half part-time officer and that um I think last budget got taken away. So there's the four, but as far as our schedules, I'd have to check check with Lieutenant Poster Lane who's over there. Okay.

Thank you.

So what's currently metered public parking? We have what we call four we have two areas and then in that we have two uh sub sub areas or facilities that we try to keep keep separate in terms of accounting and things. So in downtown we have our East Grey Street lot. It's uh the large parking lot there between um Crawford and Peters. We have uh 41 leased spots uh six accessible parking spaces, 93 uh that are just open to the general public in addition to those. And then we have three EV charging parking spaces there in the north northeast corner. And then the other downtown uh paid public parking is the county courthouse on street there in that square around around the courthouse. And uh we have 10 ADA or accessible parking spaces there. 42 that are just open to the general public. And then uh in the southwest corner we have 18 that have been reserved for law enforcement officers and that are right there on next to the the courthouse. And then two that are reserved for vet veteran courtesy parking spaces.

Are the law enforcement spaces or they paying for those? No, that was uh that's a good history question, but that's been like that for a while where it's reserved for uh just any law enforcement. I think the idea was and this was before when the jail was there too. They would have readily available parking to be able to come and go from the courthouse um as needed. So that's the Okay, wait. Now that's on the courthouse. That's on the courthouse ones. Correct. I was I was thinking of the Grey Street for some reason. So the courthouse one though that's we manage that. It is public parking. It's just signed for law enforcement only. No, just in general. Oh yeah. Yeah. Parking around the Yeah, just the on street parking around that block basically.

Yep. We do that because the county a long time ago asked for us to do it. Yeah. And there's, you know, demand that, uh, I guess, you know, like the like like Campus Corner, we we want people to turn over, do their business, and and go and Yeah. We used to have uh about 50 single space meters there a few years ago, switched those all out for four pay stations, so it got a little bit more manageable. But I know downtown used to have parking meters a long time ago. And then I guess around the courthouse is what's left over of that. Correct. Yep.

And in campus corner, we have our Aspen Avenue parking lot, uh, which has three accessible spaces and 64 that are just open to the general public. And then, uh, the on street parking, which is, uh, 153 open to the public and six accessible parking spots. So, those are our four areas uh, that we we manage and currently for paid public parking in the city. And uh the parking management plans, you can see there on the right. Uh we currently have two, a downtown one and a campus uh corner one. And these were created in 2013 and originally have been revised a handful of times. But they're really uh just a how do we manage the current operations? What are the rates? Uh how do you pay? Just the the the bit boring part uh about the management of the system. And that really lets us know as staff, you know, these are marching orders and uh as public, they could find this and review it if they'd like and that way they know there's no surprises or anything. So, it's supposed to be a a document that's for the current management. And like Katherine talked to you last week about possible parking authority trusts or parking uh structures, things like that. That's not necessarily what we're talking about. We're just talking about the day-to-day management of what we currently have and we can amend it and add to it as necessary. if that makes sense. So, going into our proposed updates, we'd like to consolidate that into one management plan. Uh there's a lot of redundancy in the old ones where it talked about, you know, we use FlowBird pay stations and that was just copied and paste to the other one. So, we just felt like we could uh separate out the aspects that we needed to the different areas and uh just have one on the books that we needed to keep up with and revise. And with that, we just need to update contact information for our division uh rather than traffic control. And then for the other uh uh like menu support and different things uh if those need to be updated, the parking area maps needed to be refreshed a little bit

and cleaned up. And then we wanted to update the payment options. We added pay by text a couple of years ago um which took off uh a little bit. People like that as an option. We want to include more information on other options like app business accounts. I think I brought that up a few meetings ago where as a business you can create an account and add your employees or take them away and pay for their parking if you'd like. And then on the validation codes, we've had this in the parking management uh plans, but just some more information on that. And then on the app business accounts and the validation codes, as staff, we'd like to um look into those more and maybe start uh asking businesses if they'd like those. So the validation codes are uh hey city we want 500 bucks worth of parking. We say great here's your code. It's one two three four uh park and they give that out to customers and the first 500 users get to use that right at a dollar a piece or whatever the whatever the agency or business wants to do. So a way that if you have a special event or some other thing you want to promote your business and you want to help bring people in for that or as a promotion. So, uh just want to explore that some more as a possible uh customer uh tool and then uh bringing in more revenue for the parking fund.

And and Mr. Mayor, that type of tool I think really grows in value as the parking structure concept grows. Um and in prior conversations that once uh parking structures are available that all on street parking will be flowird regulated. you know, how do you address the needs of your employees? And this is the type of tool that allows for the employer to have spaces uh for employees off the street and leave that street frontage available to customers and and hopefully get the turnover each of those businesses are looking for. So, the timing of such a tool and its implementation are really coming at a great point in all the other projects we're working on parking related. This is a great example of this might be amended sooner rather than later on the payment options. Uh Flowbird and has been acquired by a larger parking company called Arrive or they rebranded it as Arrive. So now they're part of a big collaboration which includes a company called Park Mobile which is a better app experience is what we're understanding. So we may add that as a option that's integrated. So on the enforcement side and the payment side, hopefully it all works, not more staff time. But on the customer side, if you're used to used used to Park Mobile and you're visiting, you already have the Park mobile app. If you use Flowird, you have the Flowird app. So anyway, it's just an example of something that could be amended to um just show customers another option and keep everything current. So now for the the fun stuff, the fun uh topic of uh proposed updates to cost. And this is something we've been kind of tiptoeing around with council over the last couple years, especially in regards to the ASP parking lot. And so, uh, here you see our four areas. They're listed on the left. Um, obviously the days that we, uh, meter, the hours, and then the current rate. So, in the East Grey Street parking lot in the county

courthouse on street is 25 cents an hour currently. And you can, uh, pay for the whole day, 10 hours. So, if you wanted to park there all day, be 250. Um, for the ASP Avenue parking lot, like we've talked about, it's a dollar an hour. Um, and then, uh, for Campus Corner on street, it's also a dollar. And in that area, it was decided that, uh, you could pay for two hours maximum between 8 and six and then 3 hours maximum, obviously, from 6:00 to 9 because that's as far as we enforce. So, um, you can see our our recommendation or proposal for a discussion of possibly raising the East Grey Street and, uh, county courthouse on street parking from 25 cents an hour to 50 cents an hour. And then, um, that's really because, uh, it was 25 cents an hour when it was incepted, you know, 12, 13 years ago, especially in the Grey Street lot. And, you know, costs of maintenance have gone up, staff costs have gone up. Uh, I think, uh, Katherine did a good job on her slide talking about the trust and authorities of showing you the overall revenues and expenses for parking currently and how technically we're in a deficit and that's something for council to be aware of. And if that's how they want to how you all want to operate, that's fine. But we want to maybe start making recommendations on how we could shore up that deficit and and make sure that parking is um

not taking too much at least and not taking too much from the general fund if if we could avoid it. Similar to transit, right? Probably should and could pay for itself. So we've had conversations about transit paying for itself and so we want to maybe start thinking about that. So that's the pro or our idea discussion point and then we've talked about the ASP Avenue parking lot. It's uh the same as the on street parking in the area. We think because it seems underutilized and because it's not the premium parking, maybe we should lower that, incentivize people to park in the parking lot and walk in a little bit farther. Um and see if that warrants some more interest in that lot and that it couldn't hurt is what we were thinking. And I think that's always back.

Yeah. So that's also we think that if people see more parking happening there it becomes more right now when it's always empty it seems kind of awkward and people kind of drive by it and go why does anybody park there? Yeah. Still need the light up arrowshaped sign that flashes public parking. Yes.

But you know and these are just suggestions. These are just things that we've that that staff have looked at and we're just bringing these for a starting point. But we think that these are fair and and the parking I've done around town, this is uh or around different towns, different cities. This is still on the really low end uh of parking fees, but we think this could help us and also help us to still stay, you know, where it's advantageous to have these public lots and public parking areas. Yeah. Yeah. It's like $10. Okay. See? Yeah. That's to start. Yeah. Okay.

That vein, why don't we just make it all a dollar an hour? We're going to have to increase the prices again down the road anyway. Undoubtedly. [clears throat] And if we haven't raised it in how many years ever.

And so [laughter] can't like parking is like the last thing you can get for a dollar. And it is, interestingly enough, with the Flowbird, you can put coins in there. I don't know how many coins we actually go around and collect, but not many um through the digital process. It it I don't I mean, I use the app um at events in OKC and you don't really think about what the cost is. You plug it in and tell it how long you're going to be there and it's already connected to your debit or credit card and it tells you at some point, hey, do you need to add some more time? And I mean, it's really so convenient. The cost is kind of secondary.

I have a question about that. Um, are there sir charges or taxes on using the Flowbert system? Yes. Uh so for a credit card there's a 35 cent transaction fee and uh if you use the app um that gets tacked on to your hourly cost. Uh but if you use your credit card of the machine, what we do is we uh so for the for example for the Grey Street lot um obviously if we if we uh sell it for 25 cents uh just 25 cents I've been told that they can't tack on the the uh convenience fee at the machine.

Sorry. So we actually charge 75 cents minimum at the Grey Street lot, but you get three hours of parking. Does that make sense? So, we cover the convenience fee uh within that 75 cents. But [clears throat] so, so a dollar an hour is not that significant different to what we're starting at already. So, it would make sense to just be a dollar. So, it's 25 cents an hour, but we were required to get at least three hours.

But they and they may not use the complete time, which you know is fair or not fair, but uh that's just the way it's been done since Yeah. And I will say to comment about the coins, vast majority of our revenue comes in through card or the app. Uh Jason and I are actually the ones that go around picking up the coins. So some of them are a lot heavier than others. Uh but we get uh it's probably a little more than $1,000 a month uh in coin revenue. Why is bumping it up to an hour or sorry a dollar an hour due for the revenue that comes in? So, uh, in my blood bath of notes for that. Um, so we

it's kind of hard to tell because you are going to maybe have some people that won't park as long or pay as much. Um, do you have like a conservative end? So, we think with all the proposed changes, including the lease changes on the next slide, it's about 40,000 more. Um, but again, [clears throat] 50 cents, right? But that's with all the changes including the leases. And if you back out the if you back out the leases, uh, and I should have done this on my way back from Tulsa thinking about this, uh, it'd probably be about 10,000 more just on the the 50 cents, I think, because the leases, as you're going to see in a minute, is a a pretty good chunk of change [clears throat] if you uh increase those. So,

thank you. So, anyway, on the 50 cents,

yeah, I was just going to say I'm actually I park all over the place all the time in different cities and this is absolutely the cheapest city to park in. And I was going to bring up this exact same thing that you had as an idea with the of the dollar an hour just straight across with the exception of the courthouse because I don't want to overcharge people that are there for court reasons. So I would still be on board with 50 cents for that one. But a dollar an hour everywhere else would [clears throat] be exceptionally cheap still. Well, um I I do want to try out the 50 cents on ASP Street because at a dollar it's not being used very much.

And I would um and Scott, we can all disagree on this for sure. I would recommend starting at the 50 cent the 25cent increase on the other two areas just to just see how big it just to ease into it. Uh I think we [clears throat] all know parking can get a little personal and we don't want to do anything major. Uh that's just my recommendation. uh as someone has talked about this before about uh increasing the rates or metering Main Street, we just don't want to. But if you all want to do that uh as a as a policy recommendation and we can go out and test the waters for that for sure. So So if we do the 50 cents per hour, is it still going to require a three-hour minimum?

I I need to play with that a little bit. My my thoughts is that you would yeah at least get two hours um just to cover that convenience fee. And yeah, it's it gets messy a little bit with that. But

I mean the effective rate on a dollar being 35 cents is three and a half%. That's that's above the normal for what the industry standard is on merchant processing. So if our average ticket price is a dollar and that makes our effective rate 350, then we need to figure out how to increase that. So if we're going to leave it at 50 cents an hour, then I think I would like for the three hour minimum to stay and that way it further reduces what we're expending for the price of the service. So, just just to clarify, the three-hour minimum would be a $150. Yes.

Okay. Is that we're at a dollar and I I I need to We asked this question of Flowird. I'm not We didn't get answer back, but I would love to know why we can't add on the transaction fee at the meter. That's just Well, in Oklahoma, you should be able to do that now, but I need to follow up with them. If we can do that, then we could just tack it on. So if you pay for 50 cents for the hour, you just you pay 85 cents an hour. Swipe your card, check your card, or use the app. At 50 cents an hour and two hour minimum, that makes your effective rate 3 and a half%. At $150 an hour, that makes it 2.3%. So I mean, that's a pretty significant

savings over time that we're not we're obviously charging for parking for a reason. Um, and if Flowburn is making more of it and we're taking a loss, then that's not a Um, so if and I made that recommendation on the 50 cents an hour. Don't want to just gloss over that without making sure that that's good with the count with council. We can discuss that more if we need [clears throat] to, but starting there, but with the minimum. Okay.

And then we can have conversation with downtown I don't know if it's I know I get to the point of the courthouse though people that are a tough time already. Um but yeah, when we've had discussions about doing meters on Main Street, um business is a bit concerned about it costing a dollar more to come eat here or whatever. So, uh we can uh have that conversation about increasing the cost by 50 cent or 25 here, maybe another 50 or something. But if everybody okay with Taylor working on that coming and we'll get into timeline at the end. [clears throat] This is just a I think our fees are just adopted by resolution.

Uh parking actually uh my understanding is the ordinance reads that city manager has the authority uh if he so chooses to change the rates times and things but manager doesn't choose without council's consent. But that's why but that's but that's why we're here. And if we can't um again going to we're jumping ahead to implementation of timeline, but if we couldn't get to council with the uh update to the plan, we would obviously want consent and then maybe we could do that quicker or not so much if we didn't want to do this quicker. So does that mean does that mean we could approve it in this body and then say Darl do it and then and I'll double check on the ordinance and get with city attorney.

There is consensus among the council and [clears throat] Definitely. One reason why this exists though is to make sure we're all on the same page though. So that's that's typically been approved by council by resolution, I believe. Right. Yes. By resolution. Yep. Yeah. So we that would be the go button. So that's good. Okay.

Um for leases, uh again going back to the the man the area page, we have uh one current lease at the Grey Street lot for 41 spaces. That's or that's the current option. Um it's the same lease time for the hourly parking. So Monday through Friday 8 to6 the current cost is $4 $40050 $400 $450 trying to add cents there. Um so uh at 25 cents of the hourly rate uh in the past uh I think the thought process was let's get to about 25% discount. Um, obviously as you increase the hourly cost then you're kind of getting into tiers of money that people may not be willing to pay for a annual lease. So we just have some thoughts down there at the bottom in the bullets. The $450 annual permit in the Grey Street lot currently represents a 28% discount at the 25 cents. Um, we are uh putting forth for discussion an increase of $150 to 600 which if we raised it to 50 cents would be a 52% discount. if you're parking there all day, Monday through Friday, your employee or whatever, that's that would be the the discount. And then uh again, we've talked about this for a couple years, possibly putting in uh lease spots in the Aspen Avenue parking lot. We're thinking that north section of the lot, there's 21 spaces, not including the accessible space on the northwest corner, um would be about a 59% increase at $800 for the annual permit if it was 50 cents an hour if we lowered it, uh like we just talked about. So again, these are just for discussion. Would love some feedback on that. Um trying to keep it as competitive as we can, but as fair as we can. Um again, we're selling a commodity. We want to make sure we're um we're trying to get the revenue back to do the maintenance and the staff time. So, just put the most forth discussion.

Um I'm okay with it going to 600 and the Grey Street one since we seem to be okay with it going to 50 cents. Um are we going to make the ASP one 50 cents or we think it still? Well, the ASP one is currently a dollar. So, it would be astronomically more than if we did a 59% increase. It' be double that, which again gets into the Okay, that's a big discount, but are people willing to pay it? So, I think there I was just going to say I know there there are people who want to build housing in this area and are interested in leasing spaces in the as lot. So

it it the value comes from the scarcity of availability. And at the Grey Street lot um a bunch of the parking spaces are leased by um the state uh oids operation. They occupy a couple of floors in the Vista building and the sheriff has some spaces but every year the we can literally lease all 153 spaces every year. Um, Oids said, "If you have any more, we'll take them." The sheriff said, "If you have any more, we'll take them." And then, uh, downtown building owners who recognize they don't have any parking affiliated with their building, their tenants are saying, "I'm not going to pay more rent unless I get guaranteed [clears throat] parking." And that's kind of what the driving forces behind uh, vertical parking opportunities. So yeah, I don't I don't really [clears throat] see our current uh customer base on the Grey Street lot blinking at going from 450 to 600 because the demand is overwhelming spaces

and there is that balancing act. I think we've talked about that before of uh publicly available hourly parking versus the annual lease parking, you know, leaving some spaces available for people to come and go and um so trying to to balance that out. Um, and I I I should have mentioned this. The current process for the lease spaces in the Grey Street lot is a lottery based system. So, you submit an application um pull names out of a hat more or less and you get one. And if you ask for more than one, there's more. You know, go through the process again. That's the that that's the process we would replicate for the aslot until we had another process. So, and right now there's nobody lease as blot at all.

There are no spots. So, like with what Councilwoman Helen said and everything like that, I believe that give us a good entry point to get somebody in there. That way, then that's a selling point for when housing goes in there going, "Hey, look, they're already doing this. It works great for them, right? You now get this and if you use to be able to show it off kind of deal."

And kind of interesting difference between Grey Street and ASP, if we did do that leases, is Grey Street is really just for business owners and their employees. We've been talking a lot about housing in the campus corner area. So, we'd want to make sure uh that in the application process that we call out that it is for businesses, employees, residential if that's what council would like. So, um just the who gets them. And again, there's only 21, so we might um have some upset folks, but uh at least there are some available spots. And then the other uh potential conflict point that I think I resolved this week was we currently lease the spot the whole lot to Campus Corner Merchant Association during game days. And I had a call with the with Carrie the executive director and uh obviously want to double triple check but she thought they could uh get away with twothirds of the lot, keep access open for those folks that had the leases on the north side through that left access point on the Buchanan and then only utilize the middle row and the south row. So hopefully we've compromised and got everybody happy there if we did move forward with the annual leases. So I feel like we sorry I feel like we need if we're going to approach it from a employees and public parking to residential use parking then maybe that lease amount needs to be greater for people that are potentially coming home and not leaving for the entire weekend. um versus the turnover of what employees and the public would have to consider.

This could uh again for discussion could be a starting point. Obviously, we could come back a year from now and revisit it. Uh but if everybody is good with this, we will take this as the initial amount and we'll we'll see how it goes. And again, we'll talk about implementation here in a minute and what that looks like. Uh but we don't want to miss the food truck part. Uh which we talked about um I think at a baka meeting or was it CP&T? I can't remember. I get confused sometimes. But oh I'm sorry CPT. I have it on my slide. That's why I have it there for to permitting. But

yeah, we we've talked about it uh internally as public works and legal staff and reviewing the options. there are some considerations that u we want to make sure we bake into this if we move forward and we can we make sure that we have ironed out. So how many do we want to permit at a time? Is it in a lot or is it on street? I think that was mentioned. Um, and if it's on street, uh, or if it's in a lot, the balancing act of, uh, where those spaces are in terms of a brick and mortar and a food truck and and making sure we're not, um, you know, prioritizing one or or giving advantage over one or the other. We want to be cognizant of that as well. So, u, what type of lease is it? Is it just a monthly lease where, okay, I want to try it for a month and then I don't want to do it again if it doesn't work out or is it annual, wherever it is. if they need electricity. I know a lot of them use generators, but if they're more accustomed to that hard hardwired, that would increase cost of us allowing them to use our spaces. Uh for a food truck to work, obviously it's not a drive-thru. You need people to walk up to it. So, making sure they have the adequate access and the safety for pedestrians. And then, um there are potential conflicts with the uh people that use our parking lots and on street parking for game days, normally music festival, etc. So it couldn't just be a park it and leave it type situation for sure. So those are some of the things we we need to flush out and as you could see we were talking about we have a lot of other changes we want to implement but this is one that um as we figure out can be baked into this document and make sure that we're all on the same page. But I think there's still a lot to think about in terms of food trucks

and different food trucks are different sizes. Some while they may fit in one parking stall because of the size of the physical trailer, you've got to be able to walk up to it. So that means the next spot has to be open and then where's the employee going to park? Okay, now that's three spaces. Well, if it's the larger the bigger van type, well, now that probably needs three spaces on its own and then where's the employees going to it? It there's just a lot that generates and it gets it gets awkward. Not that we can't address every one of those options and every one of those situations, but it's just something that we felt needs more study, more time, and more

concrete definition. I mean, I was thinking like ass street lot could have one and maybe that's first come first serve. Maybe it's a lottery. I don't know. Grey Street because of its size, maybe you could have two that are allowed and my thoughts on where it would be. So like the Taco Vila on the in the parking lot on campus corner, the private parking lot, it is in the corner in the there's a striped off in the corner where they couldn't fit any couldn't [clears throat] put any parking spaces because they couldn't get out. And then I think it takes up one additional actual parking space. So in total it would be three parking spaces if that corner were parkable. So it ends up only taking away I think one usable parking space because it's in that corner.

Um so that's kind of my thought on it is if there is a corner of the parking lot where there's we don't really have that at the ask lot all of the we have the ADA in the corner. So you taken away the corner already. So you'd have to be more towards the center and you're talking about then three lots. So you know then we start doing the math from there and then are they going to require electricity? We don't have electricity available for these food trucks.

I would probably say no, unless future improvements want to include improvements to parking lots want to include office amenities. Maybe that's something we'll want to do if we want to get more use them for more multi-purpose things besides just parking and and I you know Grey Street I think in MF it would be helpful if that did have that stuff. Um but um but yeah, that would be the thing. It' be minimal in investment by the city as far as putting in electrical or anything like that. It would be basically that this just allowed if there's a spot. It could be something that's allowed in a city owned parking lot, but not going to provide electricity that would have to be on your own. It could only take up minimal space. Maybe has to be in one of the corners. Something like that would be what I have in mind. Council Gaz,

I would just like to also bring in mind that if we get to the point that we let them tie into our electricity that legal looks at that and ties in wording that says once you put your plug in our stuff, we're not responsible at all because a lot of these food trucks are run down. A lot of times maybe their equipment works or don't work. We've had the situation with RVs at the hospital that that they now it's our responsibility. So make sure that legal has something in there to protect the city and everything just in case. [clears throat] But initially we would probably say we're not doing it. Yeah. Yeah. But in the future if we have capabilities just to protect us. So

so we'd love to keep exploring it. uh definitely don't want to turn away any opportunities for for businesses or for you know uh additional revenue to come in but we want to make sure that we're balancing everybody's needs and make and that it's the right decision to because you know now we're having lease spots ADA spots generally publicly available spots then three spots are taken up by a food truck you know it's just want to make sure we're balancing all those all those needs so yes okay and Beth did we need anything else I know you were helping us of this. I just don't want to miss any direction we need. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Primarily just allowing flexibility in city policy for us to do it. Okay.

How it's done. [clears throat] Yeah. Maybe some more discussion about that. But and I I think the on street [laughter] a little too if we delved into the on street that that gets even more complicated. Yeah. No, I'm not so much seeing it as that. Perfect. Mainly just the parking lots. Um because just seeing that one on campus corner being really successful, right? Um being in the corner of that parking lot, it's the only one there and say it's open late obviously meeting a need. Yeah. And so uh so and yeah, if it can generate revenue from the parking lot when two in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good. So Okay. Okay.

Um, so for next steps, uh, obviously we want to [clears throat] incorporate any feedback from council now and into the future. Um, keep finalizing a draft of the new management plan. Um, this is the quick turnaround timeline, so we can play it as as much as you guys are comfortable. But, uh, and we're running out of council meetings, so I hinted that earlier. So, we're council review and approval [clears throat] possibly this winter, late this year, early next year. And uh with that, again, like we said, if we get consensus, maybe we're we're comfortable doing that quicker without council approval of the plan. [cough] The soonest we could do any of these things would probably be January 1st, which makes sense with the alignment of the calendar year. And uh we get a little a few nuances, uh especially with the leases. So, the current Grey Street parking lot lease operates on a calendar year. So, we are right at the edge of we need to get notices out, ask for applications, get all that going. We're we need to do that probably right now. So, if we're going to increase increase the lease for that and possibly start an ASP Avenue lot lease for uh the calendar year, we should we should do that. Now, I will say that we could push the Grey Street lot out if you wanted to to if you make that more comfortable where we start next calendar year. That's a year away obviously. and the ASP Avenue lease because we don't have it currently and we'll have to put up signage and and maybe do some education on that. We could start it maybe mid year, maybe July one for the Aspen Avenue parking lot and then redo it again in January to align with the Grey Street lot just to make sure all our ducks in a row.

Prorated prorated. Yeah. For that part of the year. Yeah. in in the event we're under vertical construction and it's halfway through a lease period. I mean, we could refund and there will be inconvenience obviously if we're we're going up. Uh that means the ground level is not going to be available for probably uh 180 days during that that construction period. But these are people we have relationships with through the leases. So, it wouldn't be a problem to make sure they are whole and then hopefully they're our long-term tenants once vertical construction's complete.

And with these timelines, if we if we were to wait a year to do Grey Street and do it January 27, in that time frame, we would know about vertical construction if we that where we were at with that and be able to be able to respond to that. and also on on the asphalt bill to give us time to react appropriately to those decisions also on that. So on the leases it we could play with that timeline a little bit what we wanted to discuss that and what you guys were all comfortable with. But

well I'd like to be able to um to be able to lease out the spaces on ask for residential development that's happening right now. Yeah. So, if I'm just asking the question here

because the residential brings up a a very different question. At that point, you know, I if I'm living there, I wouldn't want to know year to year that there's a chance I could get a lottery pick to get a reserve spot in the parking lot. So at that point, I think we're going, if we're really going to look at this more as a residential structure, I think we need to start looking at more longer term to be able to satisi satisfy the needs of those tenants and the property owners. So that's I I think that kind of really shifts this discussion just a little bit because now instead of looking at annual leases, we're looking at long-term leases because obviously you don't you can't, oh, sorry, we're not going to give it to you next year and now we've lost somebody. And I I I do believe in center city if you're going to do all street I think that there's a time there's a I don't think you can you got to have solution for a certain time frame but [clears throat] I can't swear to that because that's not something I really concentrate on.

I know none of the none of the projects under construction right now are approved based on having access to this parking lot. So they're having to do that other ways already. So, we just know that there's interest in overflow or whatnot, like like there would to be a way to do that, make money off that parking lot. And that could be the understanding like if they go forward with a proposal for a development, they can't rely on this lot long term. It's just that a year is this can't be used to fill anybody's parking requirements requirement or whatever.

And we likely will get some push back and some discussions on that as I see it's at least available. So that will be the conversation we'll have to have grant. Yeah, [clears throat] I would like to explore the residential just thinking towards the future. Um and I understand too like the ask spot. We are envisioning going with a vertical structure eventually and that would really mess up uh parking spots for housing if it gets built before that structure is. So,

and to Council Member Grant's point, I've asked Mrs. Kaplan to begin uh inquiries into uh property owners and their desire for a number of spaces at both Aspa and Grey Street uh in the hopes that uh we'll eventually wind up with letters of intent for a fixed number that'll give us an indication about how tall we need to go and that'll be great for the bond market to recognize the the demand is there and the revenue streams already baked in. and then we could start collecting tiff revenue from campus corner when there's a parking solution.

I did actually ask Mrs. Walker to uh prepare to advance to council that conversation about the east main tax increment financing uh district. Um, honestly too,

and then the the connectivity of the former uh campus corner tiff adjacent to center city and if that's an an extension the value of having a tiff in place just as a long-term back stop for any financing that really makes the bond market happy. Well, campus corner was just it wasn't included because we came to that agreement on we wanted to limit the height in campus corner and ex which was a byite allowed that they had already we wanted to put in a height limit. I didn't want to but the committee wanted to put in a height limit on campus corner. So in exchange for taking away that right that they have right now to build as tall as they want we say but we'll give you a parking solution. [clears throat] So until then though there's the tiff campus corner won't be in the tiff boundary the center city tiff. I mean and I feel like some things have changed and I feel like market drives the height of the buildings. though

you saw a seven story a sevenstory application on like I'd rather not have a height limit on campus corner and get it into the tiff boundary than have to wait until a parking structure is constructed because even ambitiously that could still be several years and that's just tiff revenue that if anything gets developed on campus corner we're not getting the center city tiff is not getting that it's not getting any of the sales tax revenue from the campus corner area. Couldn't agree more.

So, we could be putting that we could be having that revenue to go into the park construction. So, that might be a discussion for some W four folks about is there really that big of a deal about having a height limit of five stories on campus corner. Valari is five. I was going to say I couldn't remember if it was five or six. I mean, I don't have a problem with the height, but I understand the sensitivity. Now, on the side where the neighborhood is, yes, but like next to the deli, is there need to be a fivetory height limit? And if not, that was the only reason we made that deal for the parking structure, not including campus corner in the tip. So,

even five stories, you could solve a lot of problems. You know, that's that's a bunch of additional acreage at the end of the day for infill. So yeah, Valaria could have been 50 stories and didn't require any new parking under the C3 zoning. So yeah. So um for the ASP lot, I think there's some things to maybe still figure out if we want to do residential long-term or not is what I'm hearing. So maybe we are we comfortable pushing that to July one and talking through that some more and maybe doing that for a prrated rate for half the year or is that for the past? Okay. And then on rate or whatever.

Yeah. And then for the gray street lot, uh we could increase it now. It's changing the number on the notice that we send out. Um which may, you know, garner some attention, but uh we haven't sent out those notices or the city clerk's office hasn't for January 1st. For January 1, we can certainly if if we're comfortable with that. Yep. We can I've tweaked that Monday. I believe the demand that you're talking about is going to make sure that we have plenty of people for the lottery no matter what the price tag is on there. [clears throat] I mean, there's there's so much demand for it right now that somebody's going to take it. And that leads me to the the increase in the Grey Street parking lot for the hourly

to show them that it is that 52% discount. We obviously want to coincide with that increase on January one. So, we would work with Flowbird to uh we can't do the programming on our side uh yet. It's in the works, but we have to ask and pay them to do that programming, unfortunately. So, we could send in that request, and I think we have to at least give them 30 days. So, I think we can get that done by January 1 for Grey Street lot. Yes. And obviously, we'd want that to coincide with the county courthouse. So, everything's good. And then there's no reason to not lower the ASP Avenue hourly rot to lot to 50 cents. So, January 1. So, is that everything January one except for the ASP Avenue parking lot lease which could be July 1st as we talk about it more?

Yeah, we have consensus I think. So, okay. Well, I appreciate the discussion. I know this is uh there's not very many slides but there's a lot going on in the background for all these things and it's it can be a tough topic. So, I appreciate all the feedback. No, I appreciate the work for staff on that. Um and look forward to uh further updates. Okay. Anything else on this topic from anybody? Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. All right. Item number three is a discussion regarding possible vacation of an alleyway between Reed Avenue and you had it pulled up our feet. Not vacation.

Tropical [laughter] vacation. Not a tropical vacation.

Okay. Uh this was added to your agenda yesterday. This is something that staff has kind of been struggling with and trying to uh find a solution for. We're talking about the alleyway between Reed and Cook. And it kind of goes, it's hard to see on here in a T-shape. You see this the houses on the north end facing Main Street and then there's an alley there and then an alley between Reed and Cook running south. Um we have had uh encampments in this alleyway. It's an unimproved alleyway, so dedicated to the city back in 1910, but not really utilized uh by trash, trucks, or anything like that. Um, completely unimproved. It's been creating issues for neighbors. There have been encampments with 30 to 40 people at times in the alley, trash, used syringes, shopping carts, things like that. and and we've engaged in an effort over the last year or so with the uh central Oklahoma community mental health center, code department, PD sanitation, all working together to try and get some cleanups done, but the problem continues uh even despite those efforts. Um as I said, it's unimproved property, but it is a a public alleyway. Um and I will show you in a minute the the plat for that. This is uh pictures from one of the cleanups. So you can see there on the left sort of the the breadth of the encampment along that alleyway and along these folks backyards. And then on the right there you see some needles that they found uh thankfully in a plastic bottle. But lots of used needles uh found during that effort. Um I thought I had the let me see my slides disappeared. I had the plat up there, but it it just showed that T-shape. Um,

it's later. Okay. Um, so the possible solution that we've kind of come up with is vacating this alleyway. And and in the city, we do that two different ways. We first close it through the city process that's set forth in a resolution adopted back in 1982. Is it the one north of you fall or south?

North. Yeah. Um, and so that would mean council would get a resolution declaring your intent to close uh that alleyway. We would then provide notice to planning commission. Um, city departments could weigh in franchise holders. We know that there are our own utilities back there that we want to be mindful of, but we give notice to departments and franchise holders to make sure we're aware of all utilities that might be within that easement so we can account for that in the closure and in the vacation. Um, we then are required to mail notice to the property owners, everyone abudding the alley and everyone within 300 feet of the alley, publish it in the newspaper, then it would go to planning commission and then to council. And I've got here the timeline uh because we are running short on meetings. As Taylor said, uh, November 25th would likely be the resolution declaring the intent to close if that's the direction you all want us to go in. And then planning commission in January, first and second reading in February. After that, we then go to district court to to get it vacated um there. And that would make sure that the property records all note that vacation. You file a verified application with the district court. You set a hearing date at least 35 days out. Uh and then you publish notice in the newspaper. You serve notice on all the potential interests, the county, the city, the franchise holders, and mail notice to all the owners within 300 feet of the alley. Um the nice thing is if it is um vacated, state law provides that that it returns to the abuing property owners. So it's essentially a 20 foot alley. There it is. 20 foot alleyway. And so 10 feet would go to the property owners on either side. Um and so that would be a gain for them. Um and we believe we've got some CDBG funds that we've identified that are available to help reestablish that fence line. Uh, so that's something good for the property

owners as well. Council, [clears throat] I'm just curious, have we talked to any of the property owners that share that? Ellie, I know that we've had conversations with property owners that have called in with complaints and things, but our plan is if council wants to move forward based on this timeline, we have some time to start with door hangers or or putting something on each door and mailing to the property owners to get feedback. We don't know for sure. We don't think anyone is using the alleyway for access to their property, but there might be the potential for that. This is the piece that runs between Cook and Reed, right? This is the Yeah. piece that's in the middle that it's really not even visible on the map.

Yeah. When you look at the GIS map, it's really hard to tell it's even an alley. Um I would say I took a tour of this alley with a resident like in 2023. Um, and I did notice like gas meters in the back. So, that is definitely one of the utilities back there.

Yeah. So, um, and interestingly enough, um, in we have lots of even brand new neighborhoods where the utilities are run on one side or the other of the backyard fence. Uh, and we got notification that Oklahoma Natural Gas is actually investing big dollars to move meters from the backyard fence line up to sideyards. just for kind of uniformity. So, new construction, they're all in the sideyard. We have some neighborhoods where they're sticking out there by the curve, which is kind of an interesting place for a meter. And in some of our older neighborhoods, um whenever there's a an opportunity or a need, is actually sending in crews to pull it uh up to the sideyard and get it out of that, you know, depth.

Yeah. I was wondering how that might work with new fencing. So, yeah. And that's something we encounter a lot in especially in uh older parts of town where the utilities are in the back. And so when we move forward with this process, we we will have to ensure we account for any easements that are needed for the utilities and then the fence line will have to to allow for um room for those utilities. It could be they can't block access. Oh yeah. 11 feet for one side, nine feet for the other depending on where the meters all exist. So, um, looks like the tea is already blocked off from Reed Avenue. There's a fence, um, on that this side of the tea there.

That could have just been a couple of homeowners saying they're tired of the traffic. And yeah, it feels like a little weird labyrinth back there when you walk it. And there are definitely signs of like when somebody set a fire for warmth obviously, but you can just see the activity back there is it's an attractive nuisance. It's also definitely one of the go-to place when the pace team starts coming by the pavilion late at night to run them off after 4 and everything when it's too cold or hot and everything. They kind of tend to hang in that alley quite a bit rather than migrating to normal places that they would choose for the evening and everything like that. Yeah. And legal notice is required to the property owners, but we know that these are not all owner occupied. And so

we have we want to do some outreach and make sure that we're we're providing some notice to the residents as well. One thing that I would like to add and these owners over here have put up with a lot and have been through a lot with their surroundings already and I feel like that too. So any assistance that we're able to find to help with that fence to reestablish that is going to be a great thing because I think a lot of them would not put up any fence at all if they had to do it on their own. Agreed. Therefore, you just have an abandoned alley now that somebody else is probably inside the cities. Yeah. You know, the fence I think would help a lot over there. I do think there's some properties. Again, it was 2023, so maybe they fixed their fences, but I did remember there were some broken fences over there.

Yeah. Yep. A lot of them. All right. Any objection to staff proceeding? Is there the ability to trespass people that are in that alleyway now by the residents? our our PACE team actually made the request that we move towards the abandonment because I think um there's other illegal activity happening in the alley that give the PACE team uh some tools to help remedy the situation. Um, but it's so it's not signed for no trespassing and it's cityowned so that the residents couldn't trespass.

It would be blocking an alleyway or street is the ordinance it would be enforced under obstruction inactive alleyway or the city themselves would have to sign up for the PACE program signs at each end. [laughter] Um, okay. Anything else? Any questions? Okay. Well, I think the consensus is to proceed. We appreciate you. Thank you for that. That's going to be helpful. We're there a lot. Yeah. Okay. Anything else from anybody comments, thoughts? All right.