Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

All right, folks. We're going to open up the hearings. Okay, open up the hearings for tonight. Second take with the first one, please. You want me to read the whole thing?

All right. All right. Applications hereby made for a public hearing before the East Zoning Hearing Board for property known as 15860 South Third Street, zoning district, Downtown Street, corridor enhancement, block class A. Special exception and variance is as follows. 59532C4B proposed a C6 retail specialty establishment um located within 1,000 ft of another uh retail specialty establishment. Um the requirement is special exception retail specialty establishment shall be located shall not be located within a thousand feet of another retail specialty establishment. 59525C7 propose a C6 retail specialty establishment requirement. It's a special exception. The above action is a request to proceed to operate a convenience store gas station with the Pennsylvania restaurant liquor license. The appellant is John Rogers at 1170 Highway 315 Plains, PA18702. The owner is size square one real Realy LLC, one Buckhorn Road, Bloomsburg, PA17815.

Mr. Mr. Chairman,

yep, I just realized I'm off. Mr. Chairman, I've had some communication with the legal counsel for the appellant. Uh, and today I received a hearing deferment request and waiver of time which he completed, didn't give the reason, didn't date it, but it is signed by the attorney and it was accompanied with his dated letter uh giving as the reason that his client was having surgery today asking that this be put over. It doesn't specify, but I presume until next month. So, I'm satisfied between the cover letter that we have a valid deferment waiver of time. So, I would entertain a motion to move this. And the next meeting is January 20th.

Oh, the 20th. Yes. Because of Martin Luther King Day. I'm glad you told me that. Thank you. Okay. Motion to put this over to January 20th. Motion by Mrs. Panto. Second. Second by Mrs. Thomas. Miss Panto. Hi, Miss Thomas. Hi, Mr. Civetella. Hi, Mr. Lobac. Hi, Miss Volcano Hall. Hi. Is there anybody here for 158 60 South Third Street? All right. All right. Ready? Um, Mr. Tman,

one second. Folk is the party here for 235 Folk Street. Would Would you come forward, please? No, no, no. I'm sorry. Meaning, I'm sorry. To the table. Are are you the appellent, sir? Yes. So, you're Mr. Kodka? Okay. Mr. Coden, normally we would reread the purpose for the hearing, but since Yes.

I'm sorry, Mr. Codka. Normally, we would uh reread the purpose for the hearing this evening, but we did that last month. Uh and then, of course, you asked for a continuence. Are you will you wave the reading for the purpose of the hearing tonight so that we can just recommence the hearing? We'll open it up. Okay. With that, Mr. Chairman, if you're ready to swear in witnesses, I'll open up the hearing and then I'll have you stand up and be sworn in. Anybody else that's here for this hearing?

Okay. So if I remember we uh you had a you wanted to continue this. So you wanted to get some more information. So if you want to explain to the board what you what you uncovered or what you came up with.

Let's make sure it's on. There you go. All right. I have some maps I would like to share that might make it easier for me to explain what I'm that we can have. Correct. We can have these. All right. Yes.

There are only five. Oh, okay. One, two. Can you guys share three of them? I can. Yeah, I can share. because I only have one. Oh, there are five here. Okay. And Okay. How many pages are here, Mr. Kodka? There are eight pages.

Eight pages alto together. And let me check. I do not believe we took any exhibits from you last month. So we will mark this eightpage document as exhibit A1 and with that you can proceed to explain whatever it is you would like the board to know about this.

Right. So when I was here last time I did not bring any diagrams or nothing. So that's that was why we were deferred. But anyways, what I'm presenting to you today is some of the aerial view of what my land looks like, what I'm proposing and what what a type of the setback that I've requested and what why and where they should go. So if you look at the page one, it should show you the city map of the land of location. And the second page shows you an aerial view of my uh land. And the third page should show you a proposed garage and existing structure. Existing structure it means like impervious surfaces right now as it looks impervious service surfaces or my house where it stands. And so back of the third page is uh exactly laid out what is being how how it is being built. But and the number four is uh page number four is showing you the calculation of imperous surfaces and as it looks even with my proposed uh structure uh it's going to be about 48.7% coverage. Five uh is a finished view uh like the first figure is from Folk Street. Second figure is from Orchid Street and on the sixth page uh how it looks like from from my porch. And so for this uh garage, I have requested a set back of 2 ft from my neighbor's land.

it it is uh laid out I think in uh page number three or page number four. So the set back from the 109 uh Western JPE Street uh property would be two ft for a garage. And for the porch that is to be built in front of the if you can look at picture number seven and picture number uh page number seven and page number eight. There are two uh view one is from my side. One is from my neighbor's property. And there uh what I'm propos what I'm proposing is no setback for that porch and I have received a confirmation from my neighbor. See he's okay with that. That's all I have. on on page A, you have the that that rod iron fence. Uh, is that your neighbor's fence?

No, that's my fence. That's your fence. Is that your house? Yes. So, I'm sorry. Is that the back of the house? What are we looking at that right there? So you if you are looking uh you are looking at it from orchard street right but that so on that side is there anything is that where the patio's going yeah in front of that property. Yes in front of in front of that yes in front of that structure. So what's this picture showing again? I don't know what what's the picture showing. So nothing's going in back of this house or on this side of the house that you have this picture showing. Correct.

Right. So what's the picture for then? I was just showing you a view. Another thing is like if you look at the property, the elevation of that pro uh of that land is much higher than mine. The reason I wanted to have a porch without a setback on that place is because the water keeps running from that side to towards my side. So if I don't have that porch right against but against the land, all the water will be going into into my basement. And I had had that problem before. All the water from where is going into your basement? From my neighbor's property 109 West. Yes. It comes towards my property. But not in picture eight. There's nothing in picture eight that shows water that's from your neighbor's property going there. Right.

No. Is there any picture any pictures you have here that's showing uh where the water is coming from from your neighbor's property? I had one but I didn't I didn't bring it. I didn't. That's no problem. Yeah. Anybody have any questions? Yes.

Well, start at the beginning. here for so according to our agenda we're here for a zero yard setback on a large assessary structure that's in the rear yard but that's but the but on his page three right he is proposing a twoft setback on the proposed garage that's the sideyard okay so where's the zero yard set back that's for That's for the patio. That's for that addition that smaller patio that he wants to add to the house. Okay. Okay.

Well, because it doesn't read respectfully. Wait, one time we're going to drive Jean crazy. Respectfully, the zero rear yard setback. If you look at page four, he is proposing to put the driveway behind the garage. So that essentially I mean it looks like there is going to be a little bit of setback there but he's proposing zero feet I presume taking the driveway all the way out to empty onto whatever road is out there. Is that correct? Uh Orchard Street.

So if you look at the picture uh uh page three there's a proposed patio. That's where I'm uh asking to zero set back. No, we're talking about the driveway. So driveway was uh when I was here last time I know call was explaining to somebody like driveway can be over time impervious services. So I thought you know what it's already imperous service for me because right now it's gravel. So I propose a driveway right there. But I can I can put a setback there if you want.

I you know what Mr. Los brings up a good point. I can't. So I So which one of these four or between the uh patio, the garage, and the driveway? Which one applies to these four um zoning code requirements? So the proposed drive uh proposed garage needs to meet the 4ft setback because it's an accessory structure. Okay. And that's on the side. Okay. Okay. So, that's a special exception, the garage because it's a large accessory structure. So, the zero yard. So, the zero yard setback is the driveway.

Yeah. That and the Well, it was the proposed patio. Patio, but not the driveway. Not the driveway. Okay. So, the So, originally it was the the patio because he wanted to build it the same length and up to the property line as his house is. Okay. Okay. That's the patio. Okay. So, and the sideyard is the um that's that's the garage and the patio or No, that's the garage. That's the garage. Yes. Special exception. The the structure itself is is the special exception. The structure itself is a special. You got turn your mic.

Mr. Kodka, is there any reason why the garage cannot be set back 4 feet from the property line? Yeah, if you look at a uh picture too from aerial view, you'll see uh there's a concrete uh uh like small walkway coming all across from the back of the orchard street with my purpose to fit back. My structure would land right there. I do not want to uh like increate more into the the land the the green structure that I have. I'm sorry. Can you I didn't understand.

So what I meant is like um if you see that small uh like steps I don't want to uh can you come up here and show us

you're talking about sidewalk here? Sidewalk in the middle. So right here. Yes. See this the uh garage will fit right here. I don't want this is a grass here. I don't want to uh get into the grass. Then if I get back your mic, Bob. Yeah. This is

so if you look so there's a grass uh from if you look from the fork street and go towards the my neighbor's property at 109 West Joseph Street you'll see there's a concrete walkway running all across with my proposed tot set back I would not be uh getting into the grass With the two foot set I'll try and talk that with the two foot set back. Are you going is the garage going to be over the sidewalk?

It would end right here on this structure.

The only reason I'm asking two feet is not a lot of room to work on that side if you should have to repair that side of the garage. without encroaching on your neighbor property. That's that's the the problem I see with this. I understand the reason for the patio at the zero foot setback. I understand everything else, but I see the two-foot setback for the for the garage as a bit of a problem. Is it possible to reduce the side the width of the garage to 19 ft to meet the 4ft set back on that side?

Yeah, I thought about it. But hey, it just I what what all I can say is like I would like not to have that at all. Please because the thing is I have so much uh I think uh the whole purpose of uh uh I I don't know what to say. I I would like not to go that route if possible at all. And and go ahead. No, I was going to say you have to give a reason. You tell the board a reason why you don't want to comply with All right. With all due respect, it's not a reason why you don't want to. It's why you can't. I see. Correct. But it seems to me that you could.

No, I could not because my basement is actually almost like 19 by something. Uh like and I am a I'm a he a woodworker. What does your basement have to do with your garage? Right now I have a lot of my woodworking equipment in my basement and at the 19 ft I'm running out and I cannot do uh some of the things that I really want to do. And the thing is uh some of the some of the tools that I have uh for my hobby is just not I cannot move them around. Some of the board boards I have I run they are like almost 12 feet long 13 feet long and like 19 feet will not let me have

and I understand that sir but with all due respect what you're asking the board to to say is to your neighbor well it's okay if he encroaches on your property if he has to repair that side because he needs the room for his hobby that's not how zoning works I think different I With two feet I should be able to get on the back of the property. I'm sorry. I I think with two feet I should be able to get back on the property. Yeah, because my property is already on actually if you look at my existing structure, it's already on on the property towards the back of the house. Well, like I said,

almost you haven't given us a reason that under the law is sufficient to justify that two-foot setback. You're right. And also the thing is I would like to say not it's not a reason but most of the structure in that street actually has less than two foot setback in all of the buildings in the back. Actually if you go and look all of the structures sitting on uh Oer Street do not have two setback. I mean let's you're you're going to build the garage right? You said you're a woodworker, right? So, I presume you're going to build this garage?

Uh, not completely. I have an engineer actually drawing me a diagram. I just I I was about to bring it today. They messed it up, so I just could not bring it. My point, however, is the garage is to store all of the things for your hobby, you said. Right. And my wife's car.

Well, and in your wife's car, and a car will fit in there if you reduce this the width to 19 feet. And if you reduce the the width to 19 feet, you could always increase the depth from 31 feet to 34 feet to make up for the two feet you're losing. So you'd have enough room for the things for your hobby and then everybody would be happy. If you look uh I don't think I can because I'm proposing a door on the back and if the door door has to have a swing of at least four feet on 8 foot door and so I cannot move it back or else I won't be able to open the doors.

Well, it looks like there's quite a bit of room between the back of your garage and Orchard Street from what I'm looking at here. Uh the new porch between the new porch and the back of the garage would only have less than four feet. I don't understand. Oh, you're talking about the doors being off of the patio. Right. Right. Well, what I'm saying is take take it further toward Orchard Street to make up for the two feet you're losing in width. I think he wants to driveway to park his cars there. Right. Right. And then have a garage for his wood wood making.

Okay. Well, That that's that's so I mean yes that that is true because 20 ft I don't want like when snow plow comes sometime actually they put the snow into my yard right in the patio they block it because it's it's open structure they just so I want my car to be at least 3 ft inside because I have they have blocked me many times Does the board have any other questions?

So, I'll just ask one more time. So, the reason you can't push this off of your your the property line is because of the sidewalk there. You don't want to demo the sidewalk, right? To move it into your yard a little bit more, right? I will have to demo the sidewalk and my uh my uh like garage wall will sit right there. But any further like you know like naturally it won't look nice if you if you have a grass looking very odd like if you're you know what I'm saying is like length by width is not right set right land looks very awkward and any encroachment inside

starts to get that right there. But I think it looks awkward because you're putting you want to park your car in front of the garage. So you have this driveway in front of your garage instead of putting the garage right up to Orchard Street where it should go. Then it wouldn't look so odd in the middle of the yard, right? But you want this because it's for your own hobby like you said, but you want to be able to park your cars in front of it. But if you put the garage in the front where the driveway is, it doesn't look so odd then. That's that's how I see that. Right.

You're right. If so, there are two large trees on my neighbor's property. I have to go and cut that tree then because those tree uh has roots all on my driveway. I cannot build anything right around there anyway because I have to go and cut the tree. I don't see any trees from this aerial photograph. There is tree every like I I I'm just blowing a leaf right from the tree and so that the tree is adjoining on my property actually on my on my uh 109 West St. Joseph Street has two trees adjoining on the property line.

Okay. Any other questions from the board? What? So, I'm just reading this here, but I don't know the north, southou, east, or west from here. But which way is the roof pitched? Is it from on the garage, the new garage? Is it pitched towards Folk or are you going It says north to south. I'm just reading. It's towards Orchard and St. Joseph. Okay. So, the water's running Okay. It's not running this way into the other property, right? It's running in into my property.

Okay. Any other questions? Bob, Mr. Niski? No, but I think you get where I'm coming from with respect to the I don't I But that's up to the board. Yep. Any other questions? No. Order is no further questions. You have anything else you want to add? No, not at this time. All right. I'm going to close the hearing.

You second it. Lobac. Okay. Mr. Civotel. I. Mr. Lobac. Hi. Miss Panto. Hi. Miss Thomas. Hi. Miss Volcano Hall. I. So the it's been approved but just for the patio and the the the two-foot setback has been denied. Um but the application has been approved. So if you decide you want to go 4 feet, you can build your structure. So you were proposing me I

I'm not proposing anything. We already decided. What I'm saying is that the the application was approved for the patio but not for the two yard setback two foot two foot setback. Then what are my option now? The structure is approved. You just have to meet the 4 foot set back for the structure. So whatever way you have to do it to make that work, you are able to do.

So to increase the size or keep the same can I increase the length still?

As long as you meet the 4ft setback for that structure, you're good. All right. Okay. Okay. Well, I just I just have to ask all the existing structure that has less than two foot setback in all of the property right next to me next to me 107 does not even have a setback. The garage there the one next to it 105 also does not have any setbacks. And the answer to your question, sir, is these properties are probably more than a hundred years old and those things were there before the zoning code was put into place. But the zoning code says that any improvements to property now must comply with the zoning ordinance. You have the option of coming to this board to adjust that to get a special exception for your structure, which they approved to get a variance for the zero foot setback for your patio, which they approved. And as long as you can configure the building some other way to meet that 4 foot sideyard setback, you can do your project.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Thank you.

Can I go? Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. And open up the next hearing with the secretary with the purpose, please.

All right. Applications hereby made for a public hearing before the East and Zoning Hearing Board for property known as 2779 West Nesoni Street, zoning district, Southside, block class C. Uh special exception 5951413 FF1 proposed the six foot high stone uh wall required special exception for anything over the maximum 4ft height in a sideyard. Um the above action is request to proceed to add a 6 foot high stone wall in the sideyard for house for security purposes. The appellent is Jessica Romel at 277 West Nesone Street, East NP, PA 18042, 17 adjacent property owners were notified and it was published in the press.

Yes, sir. Oh, I got the resolution.

Resolution from the East Planning Commission on December 3rd. Now therefore, it be resolved that the East Planning Commission recommends to the East Zoning Hearing Board that the request for a special exception be granted for a 6- foot stone wall in the sideyard at 2779 West Neson Street in that the proposed use is generally consistent with the comprehensive plan and city codes provided to applicant adheres to the following conditions. One, the zoning hearing board has granted the special exception required with this application and subject to any conditions the zoning hearing board may impose. Two, all additional comments and concerns of the zoning administrator, zoning hearing board and codes department shall be met.

Thank you, Mr. Telman. Is the applicant present? Jessica Romel 2779 Escoy Street. Um

yeah, if you want com. All right. So, seeing that the applicant is not here, I'm going to um suspend I guess this application until uh the last hearing to give her time. Maybe she's stuck in traffic. and close it. Ready for the next one? Yes, sir. All right. Oh, next hearing second ch of purpose, please.

All right. Applications hereby made for a public hearing before the East zoning hearing board for property known as 501503 North Tampa Street uh zoning district downtown street corridor enhancement block class B. Variance is as follows. 59520D proposed a lot size of 1417.04 square ft. The minimum lot size of 2,500 ft is required. The above action is request to proceed to subdivide the parcel so that the Timothy house remains the property of the of Rock Church. Uh the appellent is David Hopkins at 123 South Thirdrd Street, Eastn, Pennsylvania 18042. The owner is the city of Eastston at 123 South Thirdrd Street, East NP, PA 18042. Uh, nine adjacent property owners were notified and was published in the press.

Thank you, gentlemen. I see this applicant's present. Anybody else that's here for this hearing? I'm going to have you sworn in now. Sir, would you stand up, please? Does it tell when this property was posted? Yes, it was.

Ladies and gentlemen, uh of the zoning hearing board. Thank you very much. My name is Jeremy Clark. I'm the assistant solic center for the city of East. I'm here to kind of give the the hearing board a little background in how we got here today. Um you probably know some of you probably read it in the papers. We have one of our excellent reporters here today who's no doubt following this case along. So, as you're probably aware, the Hooper House that sits on the corner there of Northampton and Fifth is is the last remaining historic building that was held by uh private property, private entity rather, not the city, not not a nonprofit. The city had been attempting for quite a long time to acquire control over the Hooper House with the goal of restoring it. Uh creating another bit of history in the city to help with tourism and the overall historical uh really nature and character of the city of East. Um th those negotiations were manyfold and varied. They ultimately failed however and the city felt necessary to file a condemnation or taking of the property. What we learned throughout this process, however, was that the Hooper House itself sat on a larger parcel that also contained a building that was directly to the north of the Hooper House, which the owner, the Rock Church, refers to as the Timothy House. Now, the Timothy House is a much newer structure, probably in the 1950s era. Um, maybe I'm wrong on the time. I'll let Dave speak to that, but it's a twostory uh multi-dwelling unit used by the church to house uh either traveling priests or uh other parishioners for other reasons. It's according to according to the Rock Church is not used as a rental for revenue generation. It's used as kind of temporary housing. Um so after the taking where we were taking that entire property there was the ch church filed an appeal of that decision or preliminary objections rather to the

court and during that process with the help of the church's uh very capable council who's here today attorney Cela we reached an agreement uh tenatively whereby we would divide the parcel and what that would do is we would subdivide the parcel between the Hooper house and and the the Timothy House. And now there's really only about an 8 inch gap between the two. So the divide is going to be pretty nominal. But we want to split the properties, allow the church to retain the Timothy House uh for its current use, and the city would then take the Hooper House and own the Hooper House and restore it. Now, the real win-win for the city with this is the money used to acquire uh the Hooper House will be held in a uh basically in an escrow, for lack of a better term, and that money will be used to rehabilitate uh the the Timothy house, which is in need of a lot of exterior renovations to bring it up to the standard of the of the surrounding properties, which have come a long way in the last 20 or 30 years. And so, uh, it's really a great spot the city will undertake restoring the Hooper House itself. And then we will be working hand in hand with the Rock Church and making sure that the Timothy house is also restored to really bring that whole corner up uh, to par. And I have uh, Mr. Hopkins who's here who can answer any kind of detailed questions. I'm here to give you the legal background. So, that agreement has been reached tentatively. We don't have a formal full-on written agreement yet. We have a couple hoops to jump through. This one being one of them. Obviously, uh if if the board doesn't approve this uh application, the legal impact is that that would probably probably that would negate uh the agreement that we reached with the Rock Church. We would be probably we would

have to go then back to uh litigating the taking and we would uh reopen the court case uh with uh all the legal proceedings that happened from after that. We think the process would probably take you know about a year or so to every for everything to hire out. The downside to that is uh let's even say you know best case scenario for the city we we resume the taking uh and we have we take the entire parcel that money goes to the rock church and and there's it can do whatever it wants with it and then with the city now has to probably pay a lot more than they agreed upon money because we're taking the entire parcel. we're going to re restoring or somehow handling two different structures. Uh and not to mention there'll be probably a lot of legal fees and headaches between here and there. That's why this agreement I think is one that benefits everybody. So that's the legal synopsis. I don't know if you want to hear any details from Mr. Hopkins, but I leave it to the board to ask any questions.

Anybody have any questions? Um just so I understand. Um, all three of these properties sit on the same parcel and owned by the Rock Church. Well, we own them now. Yeah. Technically, once the taking was filed, ownership transferred immediately

to the city. Correct. So what's what's being fought over now at the court is uh was was the taking valid uh that the church contends uh that there were irregularities or it was not legally proper. The city obviously disagrees with that contention. Uh but the way the process that how that happens is once once municipality files a taking uh deed transfers immediately and then really all you're fighting about is how much money the owner gets for the property after the taking. Uh, so there are there are I'm sorry there one you say three structures. I mean there there's

there's two distinct structures. There's the the Hooper House and there's the Timothy House. And there's kind of an addition that was built at some point between the Hooper House and the Timothy House. Now that is according to our engineer structurally integral to the Hooper House. And the city maintains that you have to if you're if you're going to restore the Hooper House in any way that doesn't involve, you know, massive engineering work, the easiest way to do is to keep that addition as part of the the Hooper House. And we think that is also historically significant. It's it's very very old, although not as old as the Hooper House. But yes, all those structures are on one parcel uh that is that was owned by the rock church that was uh taken or condemned rather by the city and and the rock church didn't want to do anything with this Hooper house. They didn't want to restore it or anything like that. They were content just to leave it in ruins.

Well, I I don't want to I don't want to speak. They're not here to defend themselves. There were efforts they had made over the years to to rehab it. It's an expensive process to do that in a historically accurate manner requires a lot of expertise and probably a lot of funding. Uh, and I think as an organizational requirement, you know, a level of sophistication to get the grants from a federal and state level that maybe they just didn't possess. I don't I'm not going to question their their desire to do it, but they were unable to do so.

Any questions for the board? So bottom line is with that little addition to the Hooper House, the city is going to retain 1417.04 square ft and the Rock Church will retain the remaining 2,800, I'm sorry, 2018.94 square feet. Correct. That's correct. Yeah. Everything north of that like 8 inch gap between the addition of the Hooper House and the start of the Timothy house. All right. Thank you, sir. If I can just get your name and address for the record. Sure. It's David Hopkins, 123 South Third Street. Thank you.

It may not be important for for this board's decision making, but uh the proceeds from the sale to be invested in the Timothy House. Uh we have a yet to be created committee that will oversee that. And I'm assuming, you know, it'll be made up of, you know, city employees working on the project as well as representatives from the Rock Church. And then we'll we'll negotiate what kinds of improvements. But our our vision is that that entire corner is improved and improved greatly from its current condition. And what's your vision for the Hooper House?

So the footprint will stay the same. I think it's important to get it weathertight. So, you know, we're probably going to prioritize roof windows and repointing. Um, you know, we'll we'll have to go back to the HTC to get sort of a protective cover on it, something decorative that looks nice while the work is being done. You know, we have to fund raise for it ourselves. And then, uh, I don't know what the future use might be. There's there's a lot of ideas being kicked around. um you know it's not a terribly large space but I think it's historically valuable and the city will hold on to or the city will sell it that the city is going to retain ownership. Okay.

And and one caveat since it's u the the use of the funds was brought in the event that the purchase funds there are left over. Let's say that the renovations for the Timothy house are completed and there's a balance of funds. The church has agreed that those funds would then be shifted to the temp to begin the restoration of the clock tower or the bell tower rather for uh the rock church which is obviously a pretty significant structure within the city. So I think that's another win for everybody involved in the downtown area if we could get some kind of shoring of that of if if and how that money is when that where we cross that bridge.

Any other questions from the board questions? Do you want to sum up?

Just you know we would request that the board approve uh the variance request uh for all the reasons that were stated. I I believe this is a project uh and an application that's going to be really beneficial to the downtown. It's going to uh I think it's in keeping in character with the downtown and and is a a great nod to the historic value of Eastston in in America's history, not just the the history of Easton. So, I I'm excited to be a part of this. I'm glad we got to get here before the end of the year for me. Uh but at that uh we humbly request that the board make approve the request.

Right. Thank you. Did you hear that? Mr. Toman, was that Miss Thomas? Mr. Thomas. Motion. Motion. Mrs. Panto. Second. Okay. Miss Thomas. I. Miss Panto. Hi. Mr. Civetella.

Hi, Mr. Lopes. Hi, Miss Volcano Hall. Hi, Miss McGrer. Good luck. You too. Next time we will be switching. Have a good holiday. Street Mike. You ready? All right. Open up the next hearing. Your second here with the purpose, please.

All right. Applications hereby made for a public hearing before the East Zoning Hearing Board for property known as 11 North 13th Street Zoning District West Ward Street Corridor Enhancement Block Class C. Special exception for a D10 community service 59525C proposed D10 community services requirement is a special exception. The above action is request to proceed with to support youth growth, emotional well-being and youth services. The appellent is Azana Diggs Jackson at 2617 Anthony Court, Eastn PA 18045. The owner is Beakman Family LLC 54 Bow Rum Street 20Q Brooklyn, New York 11206 15 adjacent properties were notified. It was published in the press.

Gentlemen, is the applicant present? Hold on, Mike. I got the resolution. Special exception. All right. Resolution from the East and Planning Commission December 3rd. Now therefore, it be resolved that the Eastn Planning Commission recommends to the Eastn Zoning Hearing Board that the request for a special exception be approved for a D10 community services use at 11 North 13th Street in that the proposed use is generally consistent with the comprehensive plan and city code provided the applicant adheres to the following conditions. One, the zoning hearing board grants the special exception required with the application and subject to any conditions the zoning hearing board may impose. to all additional comments and concerns of the zoning administrator, zoning hearing board and codes department shall be met.

Okay. Thank you. Tell me is the applicant present?

Are you are you the applicant? Is is there anyone here? Could you can you come forward and just give your name, please? Actually, do you want to swear them in, Judy? Let's swear you both in real real quick.

Mr. T, this property was posted. Yes, it was. Okay. So, sir, I'm sorry. you were saying. Well, first of all, give your name and address for the record. If you want to just sit sit down with the get the microphone, please just make sure the green light's on. It's not on. There you go. Nicholas Djidio with Ketta Commercial Realy. Deeg I dio. Uh Ketta Commercial Real Estate. My address is 19. Hold on. What office, sir? Uh, Ketta C o l e t a commercial realy and we have a Pennsylvania office unless you want my home address.

Your office is fine? 196 West Morristown Road in Windgap, PA 1809. And your name, sir? My name is Enan Jones. Um, my address, too, please. 411 411 Daniel Drive, Stewart, New Jersey. 411 what? EN 411 Daniel Drive. Yeah. Stewersville, New Jersey. Yeah.

Sir, you were saying um representing the landlord and the tenants uh on the lease of this space. It was formerly a tattoo parlor. Okay, hold on. You're representing the landlord and the tenants, correct? I was the listing agent on the space when it was vacant. Who is Mr. Dig or Miz Dig? She is the applicant. She could not make the zoning meeting tonight. She was present for the planning meeting on December 3rd. I understand. But do you have written authority from her? I do not. And I You don't have either? No, I don't.

No, we're going to have to then continue it. The best thing that we could do for her, is it correct? Is to suggest that you ask for a continuence to next month's meeting. It is 657. if there's any chance I could call her. Uh I know she had an emergency that she couldn't attend, but maybe she can. She lives here in the city, but I did text her about 20 minutes ago asking if she's able to come because the previous uh and uh she didn't give a uh response that was encouraging.

Encouraging. I I would just say that we're well suggest that you continue the hearing. If there's any way I could call her, is it possible? I know I'm the last on the agenda tonight. I I think, you know, without without um without uh sounding off, you know, if it was I understand that about the emergency, but you called her and you didn't get a great response, you know. Um this is her this is her thing, right? She should be here. She was notified. She should be here now.

Yep. She was notified and this came up uh last minute. So she sent uh Eden here from uh the same organization just to have a presence, right? And I just I probably think she doesn't understand the um importance of her presence uh or what this legal matter is all about. Maybe. So that's why I would suggest that you continue. But up to you. If there's any chance, if I could call her, she could maybe be here within 20 minutes. If that's not a inconvenience to the board here. I No.

How do you feel about that? Anyone here? How do you feel about that? We don't even know. If you ask a question for Bob, you don't even know who you're talking to. Yeah, she's not sworn.

Fair. If you want to do it, you're welcome. No, I don't I don't No, I don't. She's on the phone now calling answer and you know she could be here in I say 10 minutes. Hello Azene. Are you a are you able to be here in 10 minutes for the panel's request?

15. Yeah. You have to be here or it will be delayed until next month. 7:15. 7:15. And in the meantime, we can dispose of the other. Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. All right. She's on the clock. Yeah. So, right now, we're going I'm going I'm going to um uh yeah, recess this meeting and then I want to reopen the other uh the which one was it? 277 277 I'm going to reopen the 2779 West Nani Street. That was that was for the six foot high wall.

Thank you. So seeing that she is not here um not you not you change it from a seeing that Jessica Romel is not here um Bob can we just continue this till or provided that they get a waiver she submits a hearing deferment request in waiver of time within 10 days from today's date with the understanding that Mr. will advise her of this tomorrow and if she doesn't then it's automatically denied without prejudice. That's my motion. Second, Mr. Satella.

I Miss Volcano Hall I Mr. Lobac Miss Panto. Hi Miss Thomas. Hi. And just to clarify that's to continue to January 20 of 26. Correct. And I'm sorry I didn't get who made the motion. Uh Mike made the motion made the second. I love it.

If you could give your name and address for the record, please. Azene Diggs Jackson, 2617 Anthony Court, Eastern, Pennsylvania 18045. Okay, great. Thank you. if you could explain to the board what your why you need this special exception.

The purpose of the the purpose of the space is basically going to be like a kind of like a youth lounge is what we like to call it. So, it's basically going to be a place for high risk um low income really any type of kids who's just looking for a safe space where they can feel comforted. Um we can provide them anything that they may need. um really just that safe space that they're looking for and uh we plan to offer different type of um services there. So for instance, myself and like five other my team members were trained in CPR. We're CPR instructors. Uh we have something called stop the bleed. Um we're instructors in that. So we plan to offer these things to these kids for free. Um kind of just to give them another outlet rather than um anything else. So what other what other kind of services um would you be offering other than the CPR?

Um other than the CPR uh I would say educational services. So we plan to have programmings um with this program. A lot of times we kind of do things like uh youth speakers. So we have speakers who come out. They'll speak to whatever uh kids sign up for they register. We will have uh different events for it's really just youth geared. So, anything that we kind of find that we can bring in that we think they may be interested in, that's just what we do. What ages do you plan to serve? For this location, we plan, we aim for 12 to 17.

So, is this like a company that you work with or is this your company? Who who's behind the scenes? This is my organization. And what is the name of the organization? Their organization is called Outsiders Youth Association. Outsiders Youth Association. Yes. And what I'm sorry, what exactly is that?

So, outside of youth association, it originated uh in New Jersey. We started in New Jersey where we provide behavioral services to youth uh ages 5 to 21. That's how it originated. That's how we started. Uh we did open a location in Philipsburg. We moved from that location. The management just wasn't what it wasn't fitting us. Um we are actively looking for another location in Phillisburg. But within before deciding to close that location, we were already looking to expand into East. Um, so originally we provide behavior services, um, mentoring. That's how it started. And now, um, when we did have that location in Philipsburg, it kind of opened more of like a lounge. We had TV set up. We had different gaming options, laptops, computers, just things that any of these kids can come in and kind of, you know, do what they want and feel safe.

How long has the first location been open for? The first location was open for about a year and then and then it closed. Yeah. Um we decided to close it down. The management I mean we were waiting for a bathroom to be done for like three months. We I I just couldn't deal with it. I feel like the kids deserve better than that. Say that again. I'm sorry. Oh yeah. We we waited like three months and I just felt like the kids deserve better than that. We kept having to call asking for things to be done. It it just wasn't worth it. And how long has the Somerset location been open? You said New Jersey, right? Yeah, New Jersey. Philsburg, New Jersey. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. It's okay. And what are the hours?

So, the hours we aim for is after school. So, it will really vary based on location, um, the area, what you know, different schools at different times. Um, the hours there were 2:30 to 8. Um, that was Monday through Thursday. Fridays we um stayed open till 9:00 and then Saturdays we opened at 12 and then we will close at about 9ish. Sundays we will open at 12:00 and we will close about 6. And I'm sorry I can't write that quickly. Uh 2:30 to 8 what days during the week? Monday through Thursday. So not at all on Friday.

On Friday we will open but we will just stay open an hour later. So we will open from still at 2:30 but we would just close at 9:00. and the property at 11 North 13th Street. Are are you is it a a house? Is what what what type of space is it? It's a kind of I like to look at as the open concept space. Um there is a wall separating two rooms, but the rooms are large large enough to fit what we need. So, it's it's more of a commercial. Yes, it's a commercial space. Yes.

Okay. And how many children or teens do you anticipate serving at one time? So, at one time I would cap it at about 15 to 20. Um, it really depends on once we get in there kind of see how the we can place things. We don't want to overwhelm oursel with teeth because we have to think about staff also. Um, so I want to say I'm going to cap it at like that 15 to 20 range.

Okay. And and speaking of staff, um, how many staff are there? What is their training? So, we have a total of five staff members. Um, we have one one staff member who we call our crisis uh management instructor. She's trained in all type of uh crisis, which we just have that on staff. You just never know. Um and then we also have a behavioral therapist on staff and that's just for the same reason. Sometimes kids just feel more comfortable um with adults who do have that extra training and then the rest we accept any um volunteers and um other staff members. They just have that same training that CPR um some of them have like um life coach trainings and things like that. Um it's really basic.

Well, some of the Oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Well, the reason I asked is because you describe the youth you're going to be serving as high risk, right? Not sure what that means, but it sounds like um high risk for what?

So, it could be high risk for anything. I mean, high risk can just be it could just mean that they're hanging out a little bit more in the streets. They're outside. maybe their parents is having a hard time getting them to do something healthy. So that's what we consider high risk. Um they're at high risk for let's say uh drugs and alcohol. Um and then if their parents feel like our program is useful for them, maybe we're bringing someone who talks to the kids about the safety of drugs and things like that. Um so we consider high risk uh a w a wide variety of things. um not necessarily high risk for like uh it can be like the criminal system but um anything where a parent may be struggling that's what we consider high risk.

So would you accept a teen who let's say was through the either the juvenile or the criminal system? Yes, we will. And that's one of the main reasons we have like that crisis intervention um instructor on board with us. Well, and that was going to be my other question. Are the crisis management uh individual and the behavioral therapist, are they full-time there? Yeah, they will be the whole time you're open. Yeah, they will be um if if we have youth of that nature and it's needed, yes, they will be there full time during all operation hours.

So, you said there you said the ages are 12 to 17. So, will you have 12 year olds and 17 year olds at the same time?

No. So, our plan is to kind of break it up. Um, because we do offer different activities where we bring things in. So, let's say we bring something in that's more geared to like that 12 to 15 range, we would kind of do that. And then, um, if it's 15 to 17, a little on the older side, we would kind of break it up like that. So, we have a Facebook page and then we also have groups that anyone can follow. all the parents can follow. If they go on there, they can see all of our activities. They can register their kid for any um any youth speakers or events that we may be doing um at the location. And then if there is um just a regular day, we're not really having anything anybody come in and they're just kind of coming in to hang out. Um like I said, it is that split between the two rooms so we can separate the two age groups.

Is there any is there is there an upstairs that you'll be using or just the two rooms? No, it's just two rooms and then we also do have uh the basement which we will use for storage. So there just to be the two rooms that the kids are in. Yeah. Um and going back to the high-risisk um so if somebody comes in and they they want to how how do you handle if they want to if they're selling drugs or they're using drugs or they're drinking alcohol, how how do you handle that? if they wanted to use your play to do that.

I'm sorry that was you tricked me up there. Um, if they wanted to use my place to do that, I mean, that's a situation that we would have to report. Um, we can't allow anything like that. I mean, we we have to report that to who? To who? We would have to report it honestly either to the police or um we have something called risk management. We would have to report it to I guess it would be the state. But as you Okay, but that's fine. But you're going to report it. But but in the moment that they're doing this, what what Oh, okay. I get what you mean. What is the plan to remedy that?

So in the moment, if they're active, you're saying if they're actively coming in doing this, um that would have to we would have to refer that to our crisis management. That would be her position. That would be more of her lane. Um we all are prepared for safety. Um, that's what we're t taught, safety first. So, I would call the police and then I would refer it to my crisis management, assuming she's there. If not, I would have to refer it over to the police officer. But why wouldn't she be there when you're dis you're operating? I would think she would be there.

So, as I stated, it's only if it's kids. If we have kids that needs that. So we may have kids that doesn't require any of that. So it wouldn't be no need for her to be there 24/7. How do you know in advance if you're going to have kids who are high risk? So in advance we would know based off the sign up. So everyone have to go through registration and we ask to the best of the ability that the parent or that even the youth input um the reason that they want to be inputed into the program if that's the reason why. What did they lie? Well, then that's another trick question you got me on.

Kids have to register. Can they just walk in off the street? Yeah, kids can just walk in off the street, but of course we have to get parent consent. We do have to get parent consent, which Yeah, we we can send them home like with a farm. Um get parent consent and they'll be okay to go. For for the record, this is not a place where kids are coming to party. This is a place that has structured activities. Yes. And a safe space for registered kids, for registered youth. Yeah, that's true. But then but she said they're high risk. So they're so if they're

maybe they may be they can we will like we're not basically what I'm saying is we're not going to turn down any youth. So where the high risk, lowrisk, low income, different backgrounds, we're going to accept everyone the best we could. So, do you have to do like a criminal check on these? Like who you know? No, we can't do a criminal check on the kids. No, but and and and quite honestly what you're you're proposing here is admirable, but you know, your statement was that, you know, the the risk management and the crisis management are going to be there when we have high-risisk kids who need that,

right? There's no way you could possibly know in advance because you just said the kids can walk in off the street. So, it's not something that they have to pre-register for and qualify. More to the point, you said you're going to keep it to 15 to 20 uh teens at a time if kids can walk in off the street. How are you going to control that number?

So, that's where the registration come from. So, let's say we're operating, okay, comes in, they're interested in joining, we have to get that parent consent. So we would then um send them to their parent. Their parent will have to fill out that registration, fill out that form, give us all necessary information. Um it's not a sense of like they have to qualify. It's just a sense of we need that ver uh tracking. We need that information um in order to know who's coming in and who's coming out. Um and I guess that so you won't they can walk in off the street, but you can't accept them without that parent consent. Yeah. I I need to have they register and get Okay. Yes.

So, they would come in and then they'd have to leave to get the parent consent.

Yeah. Um a a lot of times um in our Fsburg location, we have parents that they're actually bringing the kid. So, we're able to sit down with the parent, discuss everything right then and there and they kind of do it before they leave. Um if it's a kid who kind of just you know who's browsing or maybe they're with a friend um the parents normally they typically have no problem with coming right down and um signing like uh the parent consent or talking with us in in my opinion or in my experience. So, do you do you do you um accept parent consent in in the written form or does it have to be something that's in person or verbal or how do you how do you accept the the the parent? Um

it is written. Uh we have like we have one that's a docu sign and then we have paper. The problem with that is um we just it's hard to take verbal because we don't know who we're speaking with. So, a lot of times we like to have parents come in and show ID and then it's also hard to do written at times because a kid can just go somewhere and sign it. Um, so a lot of times we do ask for the parent to come in and um show ID for that permission. If it's a docu sign, we still like to meet the parent at some point. Um, just, you know, just to confirm that if we're seeing this kid for weeks and then like we never see a parent, it's really hard to say, well, did your mom really sign a permission slip? So, uh, we do encourage parents to come in just for that reason.

So, why don't why don't you make that like like the rule that they have to I'm saying and I'm asking like why wouldn't you make that the rule they have to come in so that you know that you have the parent because like like you said they could just go home and they can do their own docy sign or they could have their parents sign anything or they can have the their brother or friend sign. Um I guess because like I said in my um experience a lot of times parents they have no problem with coming in. So I guess it's not really an issue that we have ran into um but we are aware that we can just send them home with a permission slip and they just come bring they they bring it back theirel and they could have just signed it or someone else could have signed it.

Let me ask you this. Do you do you have to have parent consent? Is it or uh Dwayne do they have to have parent consent for the community service? Uh, no. I That's up to their model. They're Yeah. Not for zoning. Yeah. Not for Not It's not a zoning requirement. No. No. I know that. But I mean, I didn't know if if you knew if that was like a Pennsylvania law or I don't know. But so technically then you really don't have to have a parent. You like to have You would like to have parent consent. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not um required I guess. Okay.

Not mandating. It's not mandatory. Okay. So, two things. Number one, can you give the board an idea of what the rest of the neighborhood is like? Are are you in the middle of residences? Are you what what's on the same block as 11 North 13th Street?

Um on the block I believe there's a few residences. Um on the the unit is kind of on the bottom half is split into two. Like on the opposite side there's a nail salon and then there's units on top of it. Um there's a food restaurant across the street and I I believe this the school sits on the block. Um, I'm not sure what school that is, but it sits on the block of of the location.

So, it's a mix. Yeah. All right. And and the other question they have is, let's assume a teen walks in and, you know, just wants to stay and you say, "No, you can't. Um, we need you to get your mom or dad's consent. You need to register. Um, what's to stop them from just staying outside and just hanging around outside? It's a good question. I'm not really sure if I can stop them from hanging around outside. Um,

well, you could call the cops. You could you could stop them and you should, right? I mean, either they're going to be inside or um because there is neighborhood and there is a elementary school there. We have younger kids 10, 12, right? So, uh and it's a busy street, right? That's a busy intersection right there. Um so, you wouldn't want um kids hanging outside. So, Let me ask this, and I'm glad the real estate agent is here. How long is the lease term? Two years.

May I ask why is two years? Whose ID was that? Can you come forward, please? Yeah. Okay.

Representing the landlord. We were seeking a three-year lease. Um like I mentioned earlier, the previous use was a tattoo parlor. That lease expired in August. It was vacant for 60 days. Uh we had a couple different concepts. um dog grooming, but the parking was not favorable. Um an indoor market with consignment tables. Parking wasn't uh great for that location. Uh her use we felt was actually a pretty good use. Uh kind of fell in between educational services and worship, church services. Low impact. Uh parking wasn't a uh a major issue. Most of the uh clients, for lack of a better term, are drop offs.

So, let's say like in six months, this doesn't work out for her. Can she get out of the lease? Yes. There's no personal guarantee or or anything like that. So, uh most landlords are, you know, they want to make a profit as well on the uh the lease. Uh we were seeking three. We met her in the middle essentially with two. Well, and I'll tell you the reason I asked

and this is something that the board may not even entertain because we've never done this before. But from what I'm hearing, like I said, you're lauded for um what you're trying to do, but it is by an elementary school and you have what you have openly described as high-risk teens who are going to be near an elementary school. My thought if the board were to entertain it is to grant it on a temporary basis for three months, six months, whatever to see how it works, but then return to the board and see if there are any problems that have developed before giving longer term approval. because you know I like I said I think it's a wonderful idea. I know there are kids out there who need this and who ostensibly would take advantage of it. But we also know there are a lot of other kids out there who would see it differently and maybe try to use it differently. And like I said, being that close to an elementary school, that's a concern. So, any thoughts about that?

I don't have any inquiries. I think that's fair. Uh, it would just be subject to the landlord, I believe, wanting to move forward with with that. So, our current uh terms are subject to zoning approval. So, I think that would uh bridge the gap a little bit. We would just have to rewrite that in the lease. It would get the unit occupied and if it goes well, as everybody hopes it does, then he'd have a long-term tenant or as the case may be.

Sure. Um um I don't know how the board feels about that, but it was just something that came into my mind. Yeah. So, the times that this facility would be operating would almost be after school hours because the elementary school gets out at 3:35 25. I know my kids get out at 3:24 and they're part of the same school district. So, you're only looking at kind of an overlap, but those kids are walking home. So, I can completely understand What I

I understand the cause for wanting to be cautious, but I also feel like this is a good use in that area. Absolutely. So yeah, I just want to I don't know how to put this without there's if it wasn't we don't give legal advice or even operational advice.

If I can give you a suggestion, I would be be very focused on that registration process of the kids. build a, you know, a deeper system where you must meet the parents. Maybe your risk assessment and your other trained folks have a little interview. You, you know, I wouldn't take just anyone for the safety of everyone else around. Maybe a little harder entry to preserve the the safe place that you're looking for and the community needs.

It didn't sound like there was a there was a lot of maybe someone could walk in registration. it seems to work out and most of the good eggs come and we hope that it's just one really bad circumstance could be really bad for everything around. So just have a I know it's only 15 20 people. If it was just two 300 kids it'd be but 15 20 kids I think you and your skilled team it seems like you really know what you're doing. Um I think you and your skilled team could pick a good 15 20 kids that could use this service and Okay. legal advice

and and Mr. Nitzki, I would also um if it was right, I would say that at the very least the behavioral person and um the risk person should be like these people should be there when they're open. That's I mean there really shouldn't be at any time they're open. should be that that those qualified people that they should be there. That's my my opinion. But that's a week. Yeah. How many hours? Well, they have you could have more than one risk person, more than one behavioral person. But I mean,

did you do you have to have uh insurance? Yeah, absolutely. We have insurance to qualify through uh Oh. to qualify. No, you don't have to have Department of Human Services at all? No. No. No. But for in general, like business. So there's no lenture for it? No.

May I uh speak? Yeah. Sure. There's a nonprofit. Light up green. It'll stay on. Yep. There we go. Uh thank you. Uh there's a uh nonprofit at 913 Northampton Street. It's a program called Joshua. Um you may have heard of it.

Uh this program is night is not quite as big as Joshua, but it's something to be modeled after. Uh slight variations, but they do a lot of uh community service events and they're working on scholarships as they grow their their brand uh in in the Eastern area and Northampton County. So, um, that's something that we, uh, have been kind of paying attention to, and we stopped into to that, uh, property at 9, it's 913 Northampton Street, uh, which is two blocks, uh, from this subject property. Right. Right.

You what? I'm question. No further questions. Bob, you have anything else? The board doesn't have any more questions. You have anything else you want to add? No, not at this time. All right. Thank you. I'm going to close the hearing. Thank you. So, so I realize everybody's like

Second, Miss Volcano Hall. Hi, Matt. You have it. Mr. Lozac. Hi, Mr. Civotella. Hi, Miss Panto. Hi, Miss Thomas. Hi. Okay, you look like you're have had a long day under ready to fall asleep on that table. Um, obviously the board thinks highly of what you're trying to do, but there are concerns. So, they granted a six-month approval

uh to expire in July of 2026 unless you come back and present to the you make a presentation to the board. Um, what's that? Yeah, I'm sorry. Six months after you open,

okay, seventh month, you will have to return to the board with a report about, you know, what what your procedures are, how things have been going. In the meantime, um they do want they attached as a condition that all doors and windows remain locked and that entrance only be via a secure uh in other words no open doors that people are just walking in and out. Industrial buzzer a ring doorbell

that's going and approve the door to open it. Yeah, that that's fine. I already planned on getting security, so Okay, good. Good. All right. And then will will there be anybody from the city uh checking in on the location? No, not really. Not well I mean unless there are complaints then you know but um you know the board wants to give them a chance and if everything runs smoothly then

and then just to confirm this will not be a planning meeting this will be strictly a zoning meeting in six months or right no need to reapply n okay it will be a continuation of of this um although So, I think she probably will have to pay the advertising costs to run it in the newspaper, the notice in the newspaper, but you know, you won't have to pay the full full boat again to go back. Yes. Yes. Yes. It'll be posted everything. Yep.

Okay. Appreciate it. Waiting. No problem. Thank you.