Town Commission - Special Meeting

All right, we will, 501, we will call this meeting to order. It is Friday, oh, yeah, my microphone's on. Friday, August 14th. This is a special town commission to qualify the candidates for mayor. If town clerk will please call the roll.

Mayor Allison Dennington. Here. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin. Here. Commissioner Anna Butler is absent. Commissioner Tim Reed. Here. Commissioner Sherry Corey.

Here.

Town Manager A. Marie Smith.

Here.

Town Attorney Ryan Knight is joining us through Teams. And Town Clerk Sid Jones is also present.

All right. We will do the Pledge of Allegiance in a moment of silence. AC not working. Okay, we will have a moment of silence. Okay, I will read the civility pledge. The commission and staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, towards each other and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward the issues and we will avoid personal attacks. Okay, we will open it up for general public comment. If anyone wish to speak, come on up, Susie.

Susan Stark, 307 Fifth Avenue. Last year, after a chaotic budget process, the town commission authorized funds to hire a firm to do a nationwide search for a new town manager. A. Marie Smith stood out above the candidates that were brought forth and was selected to conduct the business for the town of Melbourne Beach as town manager. The fiscal year 27 draft budget presented to this town commission was applauded by the town commission Wednesday for its clarity and presentation by town manager Smith and finance clerk Kerr. The town commission members did their due diligence in asking questions and providing guidance for some changes from the first presentation to the second workshop presentation. Town Manager Smith has recommended keeping the 4.600 millitrate to fund a balanced budget without taking monies from reserve. And I think I recall hearing that there was a 10% overall cut from the 2026 budget also. I feel strongly that this town commission should respect the experience and professional judgment and accept manager Smith's recommendation to keep the 4.600 rate and should not vote adversely as a body of five working together to put the town of Melbourne Beach in a position where due to new state legislation passed July 1st, the town would have to fund to operate at the rollback rate of 4.3987 mils. Not passing the proposed budget with at least four affirmative votes would force a nearly $150,000 to be removed from the recommended budget. At a precarious time in our state with impending statewide referendum reducing reducing property tax revenue, please plan for our future responsibly and please plan for our future needs responsibly and. I encourage you to accept the recommended budget by talent manager Smith. Thank you.

Thank you. Next. seeing none we will close public comment so the only item of business because this is a special meeting is confirm qualified mayoral candidates and order names to be printed on the november 3rd ballot um and we have a packet which i just got uh we have one candidate mr bruce pickett um so uh online the packets are available and as you'll know there are a lot of redactions and that is because there is a state law that allows the redaction of firefighters and commissioners so um The town clerk does have an unredacted copy, and I was able to view the unredacted copy. As part of our rules, we have to make sure there's an address in their town resident. So I was able to confirm that address. I don't know if people can make a public if they wanted to inspect it or not but I just want people to know that I did review it it's not in mind but I reviewed it and that and confirm the addresses and confirm the candidate is the town address so all right so we will go through these are things that the clerk has checked timely you have all of that's correct okay and you've checked all of the the I noticed a bunch of X's but you counted the number and there are yes on the final page of the sorry for what it's worth I literally just got this a few minutes ago so um on the final page of the petition where I sign off I put the number of valid and invalid signatures okay it's just 25 right 25 is is the total okay there's 35 valid okay so that's check Is there anything else? Signed candidate form, checked. And you have a copy of the check that's written on the campaign account?

I believe finance has a copy of the actual check. The final page of that packet is the receipt.

Okay, good, all right. Okay, and is there any objection? No? to the candidate. There's been objections in the past. I just want to make sure that I ask the question because we can say there was no objection.

I have questions.

Yeah, I do have a few questions also, but so it looks like there's no objection from any of the commissioners or from the audience. There are some questions. I'll turn it over to Commissioner Reid.

Right, so I had been in communication a little bit with Mr. Knight earlier today, an email regarding this. So the thing I was looking at is that the candidate is, I believe, is a volunteer with the fire department, and I was asking the town attorney how that relationship works if they now become an elected member on the commission. Did you want to expand on that at all, Mr. Knight?

I would like to also say I've had a bunch of communications with Mr. Knight on that same issue. I was worried that there might be an issue of resign to run. I don't think there is. I think there is a gray area under our town code.

I was asking Mr. Knight.

I know.

I was asking Mr. Knight. Excuse me. I wasn't asking you. I was asking Mr. Knight. So will you leave, please?

Excuse me.

Wait here. I will. You gave me the podium, the time to speak, and now you're stepping right on top of me.

Well, we could deal with both of them at the same time. rather than being duplicative. But if you want to be duplicative, we can. Mr. Knight, go ahead.

You would be the one who would be being duplicative.

Okay, so there are a slew of Commission on Ethics advisory opinions. The central issue seems to be whether there's any compensation for a volunteer firefighter. There is a case I think from 79 that said if there was a $250 compensation, yearly compensation to the volunteer firefighter, then that would be a prohibited conflict of interest. There's also opinions, one that was related directly to the town of Melbourne Beach in a situation in the 1970s where the mayor was also a volunteer firefighter. That advisory opinion held that there was no prohibited conflict of interest. So we may get to a point down the road where we might want or Mr. Pickett might want to have a advisory opinion just so he's crystal clear on that. But if he is a mayor and serving as a volunteer firefighter, the general rule is that that would not be prohibited. So there's additional stuff that we would have to look at down the line and in between now and November, such as stipend and what exactly a stipend is for or what kind of reimbursable expenses there are. So that's really not something that we would have to determine for this meeting, but it just might be an issue.

in november and i think we should all just get on the same page before then so we know what actions if any that mr pickett or the town would have to take so when you say no not prohibited what you're saying is then they if elected then they can serve as the mayor and continue to be a volunteer in the fire department

yes okay that's the general rule like i said i would um like to look at what payments if any um are made if there are no payments or no stipends then it's clear that he would be able to serve as a volunteer firefighter and hold the mayor position right so there is a stipend program in place for the for the volunteers and um i really don't have any insight into

that um i'm assuming i'll get some stipend as a result of that so that's permissible you're asking me if he were to receive a stipend would that be permissible is that correct right

So my opinion on that is if we want to be crystal clear, I think there should be an advisory opinion on that. If he does not receive any type of stipend, then I would be confident to say that there would be no prohibited conflict of interest.

So when you say an advisory position, are you talking about from Florida Commission of Ethics or State Commission on Ethics?

Yes. So any public officer or a candidate for public office can submit a request for an advisory opinion to the Commission on Ethics. You would include all the facts, all the background information, and they would essentially respond to that letter and provide an advisory opinion. as to whether there is or is not a prohibited conflict of interest.

So you're suggesting this is all things that would be handled after the fact?

Yes, I would absolutely advise that, especially between now and November. So we don't get sidetracked with any of these issues at that time, and we can get it all figured out and hammered out before then.

So the other part of that is the stipend package is a line item in the budget, and the budget is approved by the commission. So this individual would have voting authority on that budget and that line item.

So that could be an issue that could arise where it may require recusal from a vote with the conflict stated on the record.

EVERY TIME THERE'S A FIRE DEPARTMENT ISSUE.

AND I GUESS ALSO, I THOUGHT FROM THE CASE YOU POINTED TO, I THOUGHT AT A MINIMUM THERE'S A DISCLOSURE THAT HAS TO BE PROVIDED.

ALL RIGHT. IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE A DISCLOSURE THAT HE IS A VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER WITH THE TOWN. AND WHEN DOES THAT NEED TO BE DONE? I believe that form would be filed with the Commission on Ethics. So it would be anywhere whenever the financial disclosures are due as well. I would suggest doing it as soon as he would assume office. So that way we have a documentation and the Commission on Ethics has that documentation as well.

SO MY LAST QUESTION WAS THEN IN LOOKING ON THEIR THE APPLICATION THEY'RE IN THEIR FORM ONE FILING UNDER PRIMARY SOURCES OF INCOME THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THE TOWN OF MELBOURNE BEACH AS A INCOME SOURCE FOR CONTRACT WORK I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN VOLUNTEER OR I MEAN IS THAT A You can be an employee doing contract work for the town and be the mayor.

So my understanding, and I don't know if Mr. Pickett is there to shed any further information on this, but with the addition of the firefighters, whatever contractual employment or agreement he had, which I believe was for maintenance services, that role would no longer be filled by him since we do have paid firefighters now.

So should that be on the Form 1 filing, or there should be more clarification?

If that's all that's required, then that's all that's required by the form. It doesn't need to be any further clarification, at least on the form.

All right. Those are my questions. I'll go after you. Oh, thank you.

Thank you. First of all, thank you to Mr. Pickett for stepping up. It's unusual to have one candidate, and it's wonderful that you're doing this. I did want to, you know, I looked into this as well, and there was a case before the Florida Commission of Ethics in 1979 called 7925 that I think you alluded to where the mayor of Melbourne Beach WAS A FIREFIGHTER AND SO THEY ALREADY MADE THESE DECISIONS THAT IT'S OKAY AND IT'S ALREADY LISTED IN THEIR CODE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH FURTHER YOU NEED TO GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE BUT IT'S ALREADY HAPPENED IN THE PAST. THAT'S MY ONLY COMMENT.

I CAN EXPAND ON THAT BECAUSE have alluded that perhaps the pay or any stipend or anything like that might be a consideration that would turn into a prohibited conflict of interest.

Yeah, I've got the list of them, 8029, 8941, 9339. I do have concerns about the Form 1, but I don't believe it's a disqualification thing, even though the source of income, if he has a contract and there's income or stipend, it's not listed on here, which I think it probably should be. But the requirement is that they include the Form 1. We're not, even if we have some information, it's not an issue from which we could even would disqualify someone. They included the Form 1. That's all the requirement. We can't look behind it. I would suggest, Mr. Pickett, that you just update that to include instead of it being not applicable. and the secondary sources of income that you have that because when we spoke after the last meeting, you had mentioned that you had talked to Mr. Knight and you didn't, you know, didn't think you had to resign as a firefighter. And then you also mentioned you had a paid contractor position with the fire department, which is the town. And I said, Oh, that one might be an issue. but it's not included on here. So I would just suggest that you would update that, because I do think also you could go on the grounds that you spoke to the town attorney, so it was just a sort of misunderstanding, but you could update this to protect yourself. It's not a disqualifying event because you included it, and that's what's required. But just my suggestion, if it were me, is that you update it to include that contractor position. I had several discussions. in writing with the town attorney because I was worried about the, I don't think that the resign to run thing applies. I do think we have some very vague provisions in our charter because there is a couple different provisions. One defines an office or an officer as the following and includes any charter office or officer. And then an office or officer is defined as a bunch of things, including employee. I don't know if a volunteer firefighter or a contractor is considered an employee or not. I do believe they're covered under employee insurance, but I don't think that there's a resign, it's a gray area. I would suggest going forward that we should probably update that definition because it's not in the charter, it's actually in our code that we could update that so that we don't ever have this issue. I do think though that you probably should resigned upon taking office and I I do think that the Contractor paid position is going to be a problem. I gave mr. Knight listed provisions of our charter and a list of AG opinions and that 1979 opinion is about 50 years old and In 2018, the Florida voters passed an ethics provision to the Florida Constitution, so that 1979 opinion does not incorporate that 2018 amendment, and it does have relevant provisions. So I think at best, you probably would have to give up the contractor paid in any stipend position. I think it would be best for the town to right away include a motion that we go ahead right away with getting all of the facts together in a letter and getting an ethics opinion. Because what's great about that is you want to put everything in there exactly as it is and you submit it. And if they tell you you're good, that it is absolutely enforceable as to you and nobody can ever question it. You don't have to worry. And I don't think that's something that you should have to do on your own. we as the town could go ahead and get the town attorney to submit it that way you guys could talk you could give him all of the details he could put it in the letter submit it and then it is binding upon the town they will they will tell you exactly whether it's okay or what parts aren't okay and we would have that ready for November so I don't know if we did that right away do you think they probably would be able to get back to us by November don't know i would probably put in the letter that he would be assuming office in november and they would know that we would want something before then yeah okay um uh so i that would be my suggestion i don't i think that that does cost a little bit of money it would be a little bit of time but i honestly think it would be worth it i think mr pickett is going to make a really great mayor and i think that the town um it'll be nice not to have controversy and i you know uh with a letter like that it puts it to bed For everyone. So anyway, yes, go ahead.

I was just going to point out that the form one It does show the contract work with the town of Melbourne Beach. It's a primary source. It's not a secondary Contract work.

Okay, you're right. Oh So you don't even have it Sorry, I just for some reason looked at the secondary because I just saw the first I thought those were accounts Okay, so you do have that then? Yep right great thank you i apologize i just looked at the sec like i said i just got this when i walked in uh i did get a pdf copy a little before but i was going back and forth to the town attorney so uh okay does anyone else have any other questions if not i would love to entertain a motion and hopefully before we end mr knight could we could we add on since it is related to this issue after we uh qualify the candidate, can we add on a motion to request that you go right ahead and draft a letter and seek an opinion, a specific opinion? Or is that something we have to notice?

It's something that I would have to work in conjunction with Mr. Pickett because it's supposed to be submitted by the individual person requesting the advisory opinion yeah but i mean since it's related to the special meeting we don't have to have a separate special meeting we could do it in this this meeting potentially i i think we can i think it's something that really doesn't even need a vote you're giving direction to me and the town manager um to make sure we have this figured out before november well but we've needed a vote we always needed a vote for that before when we're giving you direction to do something

And I think because it's related to this particular issue, we don't have to have a separate meeting. I think it's because it's the same issue. I'm looking for you to say yes. You'd be able to take a vote.

I would be fine if you wanted to have a vote on it.

So with that said, actually, would the candidate like to come up and speak? Normally that's what we do when there's a few candidates. You may or may not want to, but I want to invite you to come up before... And maybe do you want to take any questions? You don't have to, but well, I mean, I technically, you do have to, if somebody wants to ask a question, but because that's what our procedure says, but wouldn't want to go away from the technical things.

Uh, I didn't prepare a statement because I wasn't thinking I had to speak. I came to observe. Um, think I'm fortunate in that I ended up with being the only person and so that makes things easier going forward also I've talked to all the commissioners and and a little bit with you and a bunch of other people in town so I have a little idea of what things people want to see done in the town, what they want to get completed. And going forward, we had planned some meet and greets to campaign. However, I'm going to see if the folks that were going to do the meet and greets would still do those from the position of learning more about what other people in the community, people that aren't here, people that probably don't watch on the TV, you know, what are their concerns about town? You know, the big issue right now being stormwater and the bond and i think that we haven't always done a really good job of communicating to as many people as possible in town the things that a the commission does and the things that are coming forward on a vote so i'd like to continue those meet and greets that's in the plan just to get more information if nothing else I appreciate the opportunity to do this. And I think that in my viewpoint, we pretty much need to move forward, not necessarily look at the past. I think we should learn from the past, but we shouldn't let our future be dictated by the past. We should look forward. And I think our town manager has done an excellent job of almost bringing us from the 1800s to the 21st century with communicating and updating technology and all of the things that that brings, the accessibility and visibility that anybody in town can get. So, you know, I applaud her and I look forward to working with her. And I think that there's a bright future, not just because of me, but because of the commission and because of the town manager and all the people that do all the work around here that keep our town safe and looking beautiful. So that's off the cuff. And if you have questions. I'm willing to answer questions.

Are you okay? Would you like us to? For somebody to make a motion that that we would authorize the town attorney to then work with you to go.

Yes I did look up if it does have to be from you then if we do all that and you don't want to do it But I don't know I do want to do that because you know, I don't want there to be any I Don't want to have an ethical problem number one, but I don't want there to be any I misconstrued ideas or somebody saying something happened because they don't understand. And if we have a ruling from the ethics board that pretty much says it's either okay or it's not, it also will say what I need to do or what I don't want to do or what Yeah, what I need to do to keep us out of trouble. And while I would prefer not to resign from the fire department if that's what needs to happen, you know i may be able to be a non-paid volunteer there may be other ways to do that that don't create an ethics problem the contractual relationship with the town i i'm not a lawyer and so i don't necessarily understand all the words and what all the words mean so so i did ask google you know and they said what's an employee legally what's an employee and legally what is a contractor and So in my viewpoint, I wasn't sure that being a contractor would be a conflict. Being an employee would definitely be a conflict. And with the understanding that if there was any vote that came up where I would benefit, I would have to recuse myself. And that's like the bottom line with contracts. whatever the vote is and whatever you know if you're going to go fix the street in front of my house and i vote that you only fix the street in front of my house that might not be appropriate either so yeah you know i would would appreciate having a a legal paper saying that we're doing the right thing

Yeah, I think it'll give you, it'll put it to bed. Yes. And it'll tell you what you can do and not do and you don't have to worry about it. Yep. It was nice to have a non-issue. Yeah, good. All right, thank you. Okay, so would anyone like to make a motion?

And I'm sorry, can I just ask real quick, would we do the swearing in before or after the motion?

We did that last year because there was a few challenges to a particular candidate's address. And we do have the power under the town code to subpoena and swear in witnesses. And there were people that were wanting to challenge it. And I said, all I have power to do is swear in if somebody swears under oath. that is kind of why that happened but okay would you we could do that mr would you like to come up and swear under oath in your town resident or does ryan think it's necessary i guess is the question the reason why last year was because that way if it was to protect the commission if somebody tried to challenge it later that we didn't do our job we do have the power to swear people in and take testimony under oath and so that put that those objections to bed because we had We swore the candidates under oath. Could you raise your right hand? Mr. Knight, can you give me the language juice? Sure. Yeah, thank you.

I'll do it. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do.

OK, Mr Mr Pickett, are you a town resident and registered voter on the rolls in Brevard County?

Yes ma'am.

Have you been a town resident for the prior 12 months? I believe it's 12 months now because we changed that in our chart.

Yes ma'am.

And is all of your paperwork correct and in order? Yes ma'am. I believe that's everything. That's everything. Sounds right to me. All right. Now, yes. I'd like to make a motion.

Okay. Sorry. Commissioner, can you do that with them?

I'm sorry. I'd like to make a motion, Madam Mayor. All right, go ahead. The motion is to confirm Mr. Bruce Pickett for mayor to be printed on the November 3rd, 2026 municipal election ballot.

Okay. So? I don't actually think it even gets printed because there's no, or does it still get printed in it?

Florida statute, his name won't even appear on the ballot. And also section 13 dash three of our code has that same language where there's only one candidate, then they won't be on the ballot.

Yeah. Cause even if someone writes in, they have to submit paperwork, which is so weird, but yeah. Yeah.

But essentially what you need right now is just a motion, uh, to, uh, to determine that Mr. Pickett is, uh, qualified, um, UNDER YOUR CODE AND UNDER YOUR ELECTION PROVISIONS.

I'LL TAKE THAT AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.

I HAVE THE PROVISION RIGHT HERE IF YOU WANT TO READ IT. I'M JUST READING WHAT WAS GIVEN TO ME. WOULD YOU LIKE TO REPEAT YOUR MOTION THEN?

um let me see if i can repeat what ryan just said i i took that as a friendly amendment that uh i move that mr pickett is our candidate for mayor and that he is and he's qualified he is qualified as a candidate for mayor under our town code and charter second all right we have a motion from the vice mayor uh to determine and find

that candidate Bruce Pickett is a qualified candidate for mayor for the position that he has qualified for. All this paperwork checks out. We have a second from Commissioner Corey. Microphone went off, did you get all that? We have a motion. It's probably. Okay, from the vice mayor to find that candidate Mr. Bruce Pickett is qualified for mayor. Mr. Bruce Pickett is the only candidate who turned in qualifying paperwork. We have a second from Commissioner Corey. We will take public comment. Seeing none, we will close public comment. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carries 4-0.

Congratulations, Mr. Pickett.

Now, I do want to, you could ask Mr. Knight about this, but now that you are not only a candidate, a qualified candidate, but you're actually the mayor-elect, so you are now subject, I believe, to public records requests for your communications. So is that right, Mr. Knight? yeah i can get with mr pickett yeah so uh mr knight can get with you to kind of explain to you but since you you're um not even candidate elects are but especially since you're the um since you are the mayor elect you're subject to various you know uh public records disclosure rules so will get with you for that now next can we can i get a motion to authorize mr knight um and the manager and mr uh mr knight to get together with the manager and mr pickett uh mayor-elect to expeditiously work on getting um a letter with all of the specifics to the ethics commission so that we can get a letter back hopefully BY NOVEMBER.

SO MOVED. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER COREY. CAN I GET A SECOND?

NO SECOND?

I'LL MAKE A PROPOSAL FOR A MODIFICATION THAT I THINK THAT MR. PICKETT WOULD, TO FOLLOW OUR COMMUNICATION CHAIN THAT HE WORKS THROUGH OUR TOWER MANAGER TO to interface with Mister Knight for that.

OK, that would probably be good because OK, so would you accept a friendly amendment, which is that we will authorize the mayor elect to get with the manager and then the manager to get with the town attorney in order for the town attorney to draft a letter which will be able to be sent by Mister Pickett. Yes.

I actually think Mr. Pickett should be drafting the letter. The attorney can look at it. You know, I don't, yeah.

Well, I think that if we're going to do it, that we ought to have, I mean, he just needs to get all of the information and lay it out. I feel like as a non-attorney, I mean, it's a lot to ask for him to come up with it. But do you want to put a limit on the amount of hours? Say $1,000, $500? Mr. Knight, I mean, how long do you think it would take for you to say, you know, just sort of here's all of the information I need? Would you be able to just get a list of sort of every possible question that could be put?

I already have a page full of bullet points. It's just a matter of me getting the information. So it would probably only take two to three hours.

Okay, so would two to three hours be okay? It's for the town, honestly. He's the mayor-elect, and this will put it to bed early.

What do you want me to do?

I'll second the motion, so you want to authorize two to three hours? I already did a friendly amendment. I know, but you can redo the motion, and if you authorize two to three hours, I will second it. friendly amendment to include two to three hours of our town attorney's time okay so we have a motion by Commissioner Corey that would allow Bruce Pickett to get with the manager to work on getting information and a letter two to three hours of the town attorney time in order to finalize a letter that will be sent by Mr. Pickett to the ethics commission as soon as possible

um and if no one else wants to second that vice mayor then i will pass the gavel and do so i'll second that okay wait thank you commissioner reed we have a second is there any public comment no there's discussion oh yeah sorry discussion yeah so the reason i'm not in support of this is it feels like uh mayor-elect pickett has a pretty good idea of what recusing himself entails what what it means if he has some conflict of interest And this has already been set. I went through and looked. It's already been set that a volunteer firefighter can serve as mayor, particularly in Melbourne Beach. It's already been set. So I think he has a good understanding of it. I feel like it's a waste of our time and our money. He's the only candidate. There's no conflict here because no one else has stepped up to run. So I think it's giving him busy work that is unnecessary, and we should honor this gentleman who stepped up to help our community.

I'd like to comment. I think there might be a misconception. It's not an issue with his qualifications at all. It becomes an issue upon swearing, and I am very afraid that there will be a large number of people that will be filing ethics complaints. Or potential, and I just don't want... even the potential that even one person might do that i don't want mr pickett to have to deal with that and i don't want the town to and if we could easily start now and and get an opinion that would be effective hopefully by the time he took office we could put it to bed it would save the town the trouble and the strife and um it's it's not an issue until he takes office so And I think that recusing from every single decision about the fire department would be difficult, too. He'd have to file a Form 8 practically every meeting.

We've been through that. We've had commissioners who've had to recuse themselves, and that's just the state of business. That's the state of business. I wonder if maybe Mr. Knight could give his opinion if he thinks this is necessary. I know that, you know... having a lawyer, it's great to have a lawyer because you're at our beck and call, but sometimes it's busy, it seems like busy work to me. Are we putting you through busy work or has this already been said?

So to answer your question, it's been said, but it's been said very different ways. And there's little nuances that can affect the advisory opinions, such as whether and to what extent they receive any kind of benefits, be it health care, life insurance, whatever it is, as well as the stipend. I can tell you the main issue that I wouldn't want clarification on is whether that stipend would constitute a prohibited conflict of interest because there have been cases where a $250 yearly essentially allowance was determined to convert that person into an employee where they would have a prohibited conflict of interest. so that's really what i would want clarification on um and if i were mr pickett that's what i would want clarification on too prior to assuming office so he's not having to vote on issues that could potentially come back and be subject to review because there would have been a prohibited conflict of interest okay well i rely we all rely on your legal expertise so i will vote in favor

Mr. Knight, so when you do this letter, though, will you do sort of all of the options of if he's a volunteer firefighter, even if he doesn't receive stipend, like under our town code, here's all the various specific provisions that would be, you know, does he have to resign? I'm hoping it's no. that two he's a volunteer firefighter if he were to receive any stipend or any other benefit and you would list those potential benefits out you know like whatever would he have to resign or would that be a conflict you know and then obviously i think the contractor issue one is probably the no-brainer one but like sort of those three things citing our actual town code provisions when you Because I think I pointed a couple of those out.

What I would do, you can ask them different questions. Yeah. So, you know, one of the questions would lay out the stipend, the amount, and any benefits that he's receiving. And essentially, the question would be, based upon that, would there be a prohibited conflict of interest? Then the second question would be, if he were to receive no stipend, would that be a prohibited conflict of interest?

you know third there's probably four or five yeah third would be um if he receives a stipend but still receives benefits would that be a prohibitive conflict of interest so we have all the bases covered yeah but you'll also cite our charter and our town provisions and definitions right that's what i'm also asking because i know a lot of times with the state things like they just do state law but they will also you know if you provide them your charter provisions i do believe that they know yeah yeah okay good

whatever's applicable for that.

Okay, because I know the AG won't interpret charter provisions.

I have confidence that Mr. Knight will handle this appropriately.

But the Ethics Commission will interpret your charter provisions if you give them to them. I think there's a distinction on AG versus the ethics, and it's the ethics. And I also know these are absolutely binding, but only to the extent of the exact facts that you give them. So they say, give us all the facts of anything possible because then it's binding as to all of, you know, whatever it is. If you leave something out that you aren't thinking of and forget, then you, you know, that could be something that haunts you. And I know that if you get an ethics complaint, hold on, excuse me.

Enough. Enough. Point of order. I agree.

He asked a question. I'm asking a question. I'm asking.

Point of order.

What is your point? Give me, what is the actual point of order?

The point of order is we have a motion and a second on here and we're ready to vote. Discussion.

This is not related to you. You didn't call the point of order when he had a question?

We can vote on whether there's a point of order.

Okay, go ahead, call the question.

Call the question.

All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carries, 4-0. Okay, is there any other business? Seeing none, can I get a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Motion to, sorry, Commissioner.

Second.

Commissioner Corey, Vice Mayor, all in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? Carries 4-0, we are adjourned.

all have a good weekend. Thank you.