City Council - Regular Meeting

But I forget it.

It's the intentions. Right? That's what matters. Yes. The intention. You meant to drink it.

I know. It's not even full. Maybe it's water.

Welcome to our work session today. Our our pre council meeting starts at 04:30 today on 03/10/2026 here in the Lehi City Council Chambers. We welcome all guests who are with us today. Also welcome all staff who's with us We do have a full council. Councilmember Newell, Councilmember Harrison, Councilmember Freeman, Councilmember Stallings, and Councilmember Lockhart, and are grateful they're each here today. We will start our meeting today with an invocation that will be offered by Councilmember Newell.

Our dear heavenly father, we're grateful for the opportunity we have to meet together tonight as a city council and as a city and be able to discuss things and make decisions that can help our city continue to be the great city that it is. We're so thankful, Heavenly Father, for the opportunity we have to serve and for those who serve with us, for our staff, for our first responders. Please bless them, Heavenly Father, along with our residents that they may be safe and protected and know that we support them and honor them and are so grateful for all the service that they provide to us. Heavenly father, we ask that thy spirit be with us throughout this meeting, that we'll be able to listen to each other and understand each other, to show empathy, and be able to act in the way that thou would have us act as thy children and we say these things in Jesus Christ, amen.

Amen. Thank you, Council Member Newell. Okay, first thing, we will start on Roman numeral two number one. We'll a have presentation report on the 2100 North Freeway and Pioneer Crossing Flex Lanes. Update by Udot. If you'll just state your name when you get there and we'll we'll welcome you.

I'm always concerned about whether things are working appropriately. Can you guys see that? There we go. Mister mayor, members of the council and staff, my name is Andrew Jordan. I am the project director for the Northwest Utah County Project Program for UDOT.

We felt that now was the appropriate time right before we get started with major construction on 2100 to come and introduce ourselves to the new members of council and the new mayor and give you guys an update on where we're at on our program. Program. For those of you that don't know, our program for the Northwest Utah County consists of a series of projects. Some of you might know these very closely. The first one I'll speak to is the Mountain View Corridor Project that we just finished in December.

That project was from 2100 North up to Port Rockwell. We were required to do that one first before we could start the freeway portions on Mountain View Corridor. We needed to make that connection. We're able to complete that project four months ahead of schedule. And open that to the public right before Christmas.

We're very excited to have that open and have that additional capacity between Salt Lake and Utah Counties. The next couple projects I'll speak to are 2100 North and Pioneer Crossing. Those are in our program as well as the freeway portions of Cory Ride and Mountain View Corridor from 2100 down to SR 73. And then future unfunded projects that will be part of our program are Mountain View Corridor South and Saratoga Springs and Cory Ride phase two out towards Eagle Mountain. Those are all freeway free projects.

So, as you can see on the map, we have several projects and a large investment in the area. The goal for our program, the Northwest Utah County program is to provide that one stop location for the public or council or really anyone to find all the information on what's going on with these projects. So, if you go to the website that's on the screen currently you'll be able to drill down into any one of those projects to get additional details in the schedule. The first project we're gonna highlight is prior to Pioneer Crossing Flex Lanes project. I'm gonna actually have my construction manager, Jeremy Bound, give an update on where this project's at and what's to come.

Thank you. Mayor, council, staff, Jeremy Bowne with UDOT, design and construction manager, part of the Northwest Utah County's program team. So, Pioneer Crossing, if you are in Lehi, you are probably aware of this and have seen seen it. So we are under construction now and on schedule looking to be able to from Redwood Road to I-fifteen looking to be able to have the three lanes in each direction capacity later this spring hoping May timeframe and it's looking like the contractor is on schedule for that. And then once we get that capacity built, we'll move to the next part of that project which is adding the signals and such so that we can do as shown on the screen here do the flex lanes lanes portion of that.

Schedule is to complete that portion of the project by the end of this year. And so with that, not only will we go from having two lanes in each direction currently to the three lanes I spoke about later this spring. But then with the flex lanes and those signals, we'll be able to shift during the peak hours four lanes in the peak direction and two lanes in the non peak direction. And then midday shift back to three and three. So as shown on the screen here, I do have a video.

I'm not sure it's going work so I probably won't jump over to that but you can get that from the website website that Andrew show has shown earlier if you want to see that video. And then here's what it looked like before, cross section with what it'll look like in the future so we'll have those overhead signs helping you to see what lanes you can or should not be in. On the previous slide, if you're reading, it said something about left turn restrictions. This kind of helps show that, right? If we were in the process of shifting this, what is currently the left turn lane in the center, that would turn to a yellow X saying don't go into that lane.

We're in the process of shifting lanes and then move you over to where it's supposed to be as that shift happens. So just pay attention to the signals overhead when we get this opened up. As I said, so the major improvement is the flex lane system between I-fifteen and Redwood Road. We'll also be adding additional westbound lanes between Redwood Road and the Mountain View Corridor so that in the evening when there's four lanes coming from I-fifteen, it doesn't go four to two and then continue to back up. There's actually lanes to capture that traffic and keep them moving through Lehi and off into the further west.

So that project will start. We should be advertising for the contractor on that phase of the project here in the next couple weeks and that one is also scheduled to complete by the end of the year. So, all work on Pioneer Crossing should be complete the fall of this year. So, yeah. So, construction is underway and we're on track for that substantial completion. So, and I'll give it back to Andrew, I believe, for the rest of the update. Thank you.

Yeah, the only thing that I might add to what Jeremy said is the reason we went with the the flex lanes concept here is we're able to provide that capacity within the existing footprint of the existing corridor, right? And that's the largest benefit we can we could have, right? We're using the existing payments out there. Actually, the contractor is recycling a lot of that concrete that they've pulled out to install drainage and stuff in there. He's also recycling that back into the pavement section as well.

So, we're reusing a lot that's on that corridor and with minimal impact, we're not buying a lot of additional right away or acquiring additional properties there. So, that's a that's a huge win for us on this concept and it really works well with the way that the traffic flows work in this corridor. Is there any questions on that real quick?

Yeah, I I have a question. I see that the lanes look like they're going to go down like a standard from what I understand from streets department standard lane is 12 feet and it looks like they got some of them says 11 to 12 feet. So I'm wondering what the speed limit is going to be because I from my understanding with smaller lanes typically a little bit of lower speed just because to control the car from I don't know what is your prediction?

So we are planning on reducing the speed limit on the corridor to account for there's no longer going to be a shoulder on the edge and the reduced lanes. So, we actually are reducing that. Is it 40 or 45?

I believe it's 40 like the construction speeds.

So, we set the construction speed limit, but that speed limit will maintain once we're done at 40 miles an hour.

Can you go back one slide? Maybe one more. Okay. So at what point sorry, the one with the map showing. So for Mill Pond Road to I-fifteen, when is that planned to be modified? So we will be modifying that as part of

our project to line that up for the additional lanes. So we will be continuing that over to I-fifteen. Okay.

So And

there will

be some median modifications and get you into the right lane assignments getting ready to go into that flex lanes corridor.

Okay. And then for the lighting, I know there's been some questions by the public on how dark it is, especially when it rains and everything reflects and you can't really see what what type of street lighting is going to be installed is it going to be like LED low profile or and and then will that be installed before those lanes open so

a lot of the lighting infrastructure that we're going to be put in will be in line with the gantries that we're putting in for the lane assignments and that will increase the lighting on the corridor along with that. So, that'll all come on online when we when we have all that infrastructure in place.

Okay. Thanks.

Yep. Any other questions? Very good. Next, 2100 North Freeway.

I'm excited.

We're ready. We're ready to roll. Actually, our construction crews will be beginning some some work along the corridor tonight. Will be some lane restrictions as we start making access into that median to prepare for work. The first areas of work you'll see are near the river.

We got to do some work in there in preparation for the new bridges crossing the river, the new freeway bridges crossing the river. Before the increased flows happen in the Jordan River. We've been working in coordination with the River Authority to make sure that we get that work done so we're not impeding any flows from Utah Lake into the Jordan River and to points north. So that's going to be a major coordination point with our our contractors. So you'll see a lot of work kind of in that area to start.

We'll also be starting to work on grading out that median area in preparation for the freeway. But yeah, work starting tonight. So, the concept for the 2100 North Freeway, you saw some of it that we completed in the Mount View Corridor project is you know lining that up for that freeway portion in the middle between the existing frontage roads. That'll continue where we left off over between Redwood and 3600. The freeway from traveling on the freeway headed east.

We'll go over 3600. We'll come back down the grade as we cross over Waterbury and Jordan River and then we'll actually go under 2300 West there and under the railroad tracks and after we come under the railroad tracks we'll start to climb to come over Ashton and get up and over I-fifteen with system direct ramps on the I-fifteen. So when we're complete, there'll be a non stop from West Redwood Road on the I-fifteen. Some of the other improvements like I said were the grade separations. We also have some trail improvements that we've coordinated with city staff.

And those will be part of your work agenda I believe tonight. There's two coop agreements that we're looking for approval from the city on. Let me see if I can get there. The first one is a coop agreement. This is a tri party agreement that we're doing between Udot, Lehigh City, and Utah County.

In coordination with major stakeholders and the city prior, we will be constructing a trail connection from the Holbrook Park, future Holbrook Park, the city park there behind the hospital to the Jordan River Trail as part of our project. We'll be constructing that. This will be a pedestrian bridge that the city will own and maintain but it provides that that connection between an already heavily used corridor of the Jordan River Trail into the park facility and provide that connection across the river for those neighborhoods in that that area kind of around the UTA station and over towards the hospital. Well, are also building as a better ment the trail through the park property for the city as part of our project while we have a contractor in there. So, see that I miss.

That's kind of the main points on that cooperative agreement. Like I said, it's a tri party agreement because there's connections between the Utah County Trail System, the Lehigh Trail System, and UDOT right away. The second one that we're presenting is a co op agreement for the rail trail bridge east of the UPRR Tracks in coordination with staff and the future project to bring that rail trail from the UTA station down into downtown. As part of our project, we're building that structure for the city. Shown here, it connects from the skate park over to that south side and connects into that future improved trail.

I believe that the city funding in is constructing in the coming years. Improvements there. So, those are the two agreements. Those are some of the main coordination points we've done. We've done a lot of work with major stakeholders in the area.

The Garf properties, the HADCO property, and the access to his yard as well as access in and out of the hospital. We've been working closely with the hospital to make sure that anything that we do even during construction is not impeding emergency services getting in and out of the hospital as well as light flight coordination with the helicopters to make sure that as we have cranes and stuff in the area that we're not that we have close coordination. They're aware of what we're doing and we're aware of what they need from us. So we're excited to start this project. General schedule, we're starting now.

Plan to have this completed by the '28. 2028. Three year project. But yeah we're excited. There's a lot.

There's a lot to do here and we've been working closely with staff. I gotta commend Lehigh City staff and their coordination with us and their willingness to work with us on a lot of things. So, it's been a great partnership and we wish to continue it over the next couple of years. And then upcoming for our program, we do have a funded project that we will be starting as soon as we finish 2100 North and that will be the Quarry Ride and Mountain View Corridor Freeways. We will continue, like I said, from 2100 North down to 73, build a system interchange there at 73 in Pioneer and Mountain View and then continue that freeway in front of your frontage roads out to Eagle Mountain which will help pull a lot of that regional traffic kind of out of the local systems and really get it into a freeway system which will be vastly different than what we're experiencing today.

If you have any questions or would like to stay up to date, like I said, please visit our our websites and there's 's also the Facebook group where we will be posting construction updates, lane closure updates, and really anything you need, you should be able to get it between those two sites. If there's questions, I'd be happy happy to answer.

I do. I've been told that you're redesigning the interchange between 2100 North and I 15. Is that correct? Yep. Okay. As part of that, are you going to reevaluate this sound study?

Yes. Okay. Yes, the noise study that we completed during our environmental reevaluation was based on the concept that we had. Our contractor that was selected based on their best value has a little bit different design to that interchange. And as part of that, we will be redoing the noise analysis. In the next couple months we should have field monitoring going in place. Okay. And then as they complete the design we'll be able to do that analysis on what what meets those parameters and we'll follow policy on how that works.

Alright. So this design hasn't been completed yet?

Not a 100%. Okay. That area we're between about a 30 and a 60% design. We want to get really through that 60% where we know that the profiles and the alignment and the number of lanes aren't changing so that we have a very clear vision of what that looks like so we can run that noise analysis.

Okay. And the last analysis, it seemed like it would protect the people from the noise, but the cost was prohibited kind of thing. And if I remember right, it was because of the geography or the terrain kind of thing. So do you have any idea right now if this new design might potentially bring the cost down? Or is it too far out to tell?

Yeah, I wouldn't be able to tell that right now. We would have to go through the analysis.

Okay. Cross my fingers again. Would

you mind going through the bridges and then going under again? I think I missed a part where so 3600 West will have a bridge.

So, we'll be going over 3600 with the freeway.

Yeah.

So, the freeway over 3600. So, that intersection essentially stays the way it is. Today, we will be doing improvements there to accommodate the city's plan of a widening for that. So, that bridge will accommodate future widening of 3600 North and south. There are things that we're doing to be in line there. So, that's 3600 and then we go over Water Bury which is a future city street connection that we're preserving. Then, over the river, then, under 2,300.

So, after the river, you're going to start the decline down. I I guess my I I drive this road multiple So times a the one that concerns me the most is the rail, right? Going under the rail. Mhmm. And so you're starting the descent at two thousand three hundred West or a little before because you to go under two thousand three hundred West than the rail.

Yeah. So, the frontage roads currently go under the railroad.

Right. I think just that high speeds. In my mind, it just seems like we're going to be doing this. Does that make sense? So, that's why I'm asking.

So, actually what happens is when we come across the river, we don't climb to meet 2,300. If today it kind of climbs to meet 2,300. We actually stay flat or fairly flat to go under 2,300 or even actually depressed just a little bit to go under 2,300 and then go under the railroad and then start coming up to go over I-fifteen.

Okay. So how will that impact the on and off of the frontage roads?

It

to re close. So

if that rejoins it.

I I guess I'm just imagining people flying down this at 80 miles an hour which is hopefully not what they're doing.

So the the speed through here, it will be set at a 65 mile an hour speed for the corridor just because of the proximity of the system interchanges between each other. We only have just under three miles between the two. There will be system ramps or slip ramps. You already see the two that we installed with the previous project that tie in before thirty six hundred. There'll be another set to go on just east of 3600.

I have a question to piggyback on that. So the front of existing roads that are there now are basically, it it wasn't my understanding they're going be frontage roads?

Yeah. They're the one way frontage roads. They'll handle the local traffic.

And they'll kind of just stay the same how they are? Yep. Okay.

Yep. And aren't we gonna be able to slip on and off or no? Yep. Yeah. So you'll be able to, like, get off at twenty three hundred.

Mhmm.

And then get back on. So they'll they'll provide that.

No.

I can I can just think about it if it doesn't work? I'll just dream it.

I was trying to

I trust me. I've been dreaming about this road for years. So it's

I was trying to share. We have KMZ that we could provide to staff with the preliminary layout but there will be additional ons and offs as we move through the corridor. Like I said, you have the offset 3600. You'll have another set of offs between from the freeway to the frontage roads between 3600 and Waterbury and then between Waterbury and the river, you'll have a set of on ramps to go well, depending on which direction you're going but yeah there's a there's a series of connectivities that we're going to have slip ramps on and off the front of drug throughout the corridor.

Cool. Okay. Thanks. Sorry for the tough questions.

No. I wish I could show you because it's right here.

Yeah. But you could see me

afterwards or Okay. Just reach out. Lance, yeah, my information or you can reach, you know, our PI group. I believe we are updating the the map on our website that will actually show this as well.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Can you explain Ashton what that will look like? So is if they're coming from Ashton direction will they just need to get on I-fifteen or go there's no connection to it there is that right?

So the existing southbound ramp that you use today between Ashton and State Street remains in place. Okay. So if you came around Ashton and you wanted to go southbound, that one's there. Trying to think.

What if you're going north?

If you're going north, you would have to go the way that you would today underneath the I 15.

Mhmm.

12th West and get on the Frontage Road and then get on the same way you would today from Ashton.

And if you wanted to go Ashton to Redwood, you could go, I guess, underneath Frontage Road. Is like that would connect?

You would go underneath the freeway and make a left the same as you would today, essentially. Do you wanna see if yours works? Mine's not sharing. Hey, there you go. Kelly Ash is my design construction manager for 2000 Hundred North. Do you wanna run through some of the accesses for the council? Sure. Alright. Oh, you moved it.

Oh, I did some. Okay. I'll start over here at Redwood and just work our way over. So you can see where we're tying into the existing or the pavement we just built and the bridges we just built here at Redwood. These this is your connection now back to the frontage road, and those have road.

And And

to then be

bit

road. Then the And then the river, road,

road is there'll be these a slip ramps here.

And

and then you have 2300 West right here. Again, you got separation at Ashton Boulevard,

and then the, you know, direct freeway to freeway flyover ramps that access the I-fifteen. So. So for for the entrance into, I guess, Hadco, is that going to be pretty seamless? Because I know before they were worried they'd have to go down and flip a u-turn, right? And ideally they can just slip right into their property. Is that on track?

Yeah. The new interchange design here, you know, yeah, this will be basically access as it exists today at Ashton. So. Thank

you. We're, I just, I live in Holbrook Farms. We're so excited. So, thank you so much.

Any other questions? Thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay, item two. Civic Center Art Installation Discussion. Mister Steve.

Okay, now we can talk about fun stuff. No. So, as we started building the Civic Center, we started talking about art and how are we going to make this more than just a city hall, more than just a library, and make it for a place that people want to come. We've done several different options in that as you guys have seen it. We have the community spaces.

We have a lot of pretty areas. We want to make this an inviting an inviting building. So, when we when we started down the art path, we hired consultant through Heritage Arts Foundation. They work out of Alpine Arts Center in connection with one of the sculptors that we've had do several things for us in the city, the Infant Cemetery Monument as well as the one of the monuments over here at the Legacy Center. We walked them through the building and said, okay, these are the spaces that we would like to fill.

These are the things that we'd like to see. Understand that we want mostly local artists in the building. We want people that mean something to our area and to Lehi. And so in doing that, they've done a great job so far. We've got a these concepts from.

His name's Scott Stredbeck and he, like I said, he's done a lot of different work for us. He's got a good relationship with him with the city. So, he said, hey, let me let me take a stab at a couple different ideas for you and so, these are some of the ideas that he's brought back to us. This one, some of my feedback was, you know, this is a library space, but it may not always be the full library space. So I love the kids. I love the idea. I love the concept. But we want to make it more broad. He brought this idea saying, Okay, well, we could do some sort of a wildlife theme. That was kind of a miss for me.

Mean, it's a really cool idea, but not right. And then he brought this one. So this, the name on it, we'll have to change that for other reasons. But this to me kind of stood out. I'm like, okay, I I could I could go down this this path.

And if you look up into the tree well, in fact, let me get out of this portion and kind of read this the mock up that they've done. And I don't read in public. So, bear with me. At the heart of Lehigh new new city hall and library stands a soaring 15 to 20 foot work of bronze set inside a building, Grand Central Tower, and lobby. The piece will not just simply decor the space, it will embody the spirit of Lehi itself.

Just as the tower anchoring the civic presence of the building. The central sculpture, again, the name's wrong, presents a living tree rising upward with quiet strength. Its trunk anchored deeply within the branches reaching wide and welcoming. The scene invites reflection to pause, breathe, and remember who we are. At the base of the tree, two two youth sit together in conversation. Their posture expresses not only belonging but also the idea of not of every new generation finds wisdom and ground itself and the stories that came before.

Sorry. I was trying to scroll down.

Within the leafy canopy clusters, visitors can view subtle woven themes and reflection elements of Lehi's past, present, and future. The images will not be or will intentionally be understood, never dominating, never demanding attention, yet present of those who know what they're looking for. So, if we go back to the other, you can see the highlighted green pieces up in there.

As

you zoom in, you can see a microchip in there. You You can see library books. You can see American flag in there. Up in the top left corner, you can see the emblem of a rodeo of the rodeo themes. You can see some of those ideas.

So, going back to it, I think what the overall ask and question for tonight and for this council is, we were down the road on this. If this is something you guys would like to pursue, we can continue down this road. If it's not, we can change direction. If you would like to see something completely different or if you would like to see nothing at all. That that's also an option.

For funding on this, the statue is estimated at about $220,000 because it is a bronze I'm going to mess up the name of it. Anyway, but it it it's a relief. So, basically, it sticks out from the wall, a foot or two up at the top and then down at the base, the intent would to be have the children as full size statues. And so, it would come out in the into the breezeway three to five feet. But it it has a very cool intent behind it and and feel.

We do have a little bit of funding left over from the art installations in the in the project from our original budget that we could potentially go through. The other portion is as we are looking for public donors to to go towards this as well. If it's something that you would like to see accelerated, we'd have to find out a funding mechanism that you would like to put towards it. But I think mostly what what we want is is this a good path to go down? Is this kind of what a good vision that you would like to see?

I think it's a great vision for the space. I love the theme of the tree. I think that's something that's pretty universal. I would love to see going down the path and see what we can do with private donors because you know, I I think it's great we have some leftover funds but it is a pretty big ask. Yeah.

Well, and and realistically, the leftover funds we have is a a scratch in the surface. It's not like we're going to go very far. But we want to make sure you guys are okay with it before I go start pedaling and and they are willing to help with some some of that making sure I mean they they brought in a company two weeks ago and said you know are you guys willing to do this and I'm like hold on you know we we've gotta make sure you guys are still or you guys are on board with this before we get too far down that road

yeah I think there's a lot we can do with naming rights with donors, and things like I think there's wealthy families who would love to have something like this that is they have given it. So, think there's a lot we can do here and throughout the city. So, I think that's a great way to pursue.

I think if it's a really cool idea, I would be happy I would be fine with something simpler also and with nothing at the time. I mean, it's a really cool building. It's a really cool space. I understand naming rights, but I think that I this building has in will take a lot from the people of Lehigh just to pay for in general. And I'm hesitant to put more money towards anything at this time.

And I think we could, you know, I understand we have some art some, I don't know, artifacts. Some some things that are stored that are maybe Americana or some of our heritage maybe you're already utilizing some of those but you know even like a simple American flag for me would be sufficient.

Great. I obviously private donors that'd be great if we could go down that path as far as possible. I like the design. Just one the roots and branches, that's

It's a podcast, a local podcast.

But are we gonna put any

words together? We'd have to or So really this is a rendering. This is something that none of this is sticking. This was his ideas. This was Okay. You know, this is my sketch. This is what we'd like to do. If and when we get funding, if if the donations start amounting up to about half of it, he can start the actual renderings. He can actually and then at that point, we would bring it back and say, you know, what do you think about this and do do more of a formal. I think really what what I need is making sure that you guys are okay with us pursuing funding, pursuing donations, and this is kind of the concept that we would show during those times.

Steve, I like the direction this is going myself. I think it'll be beautiful. But I'm with the other council members that it's a lot of money. Yeah. It is. Spent a lot already. You know, but we, I guess we want it high quality. So, I'd love to have private donors. We, a while ago, we had a group come in that offered to donate bronze statues.

Same group.

Oh, is it? Yeah. They won't donate this one to it.

They were doing the same very similar for those bronze statues. So, basically, they were going out finding donors for that park. Uh-huh. To say, would you like to do this? They haven't been very successful on that end of it. Okay. They have very successful in other areas. I think it's just you gotta write get the right person for the right thing.

Okay.

I really do think that this one would probably take more traction than those did.

Yeah. And and Heather, I'm I'm not sure naming rights for. Oh, I just. Not the building, right?

Not the building. No. Okay. I'm just thinking like in general, there's ways where we can do some great things if we could sell naming rights or have donor where the

donor would have a plaque. Recognition.

Okay. Recognition. Yeah.

And that yeah. Okay. Yep. That makes more sense.

Yep. And frankly, that's fully the intent. If we get a donor for this, it would be.

A plaque.

Plaque. Yeah.

We're going

be donated by X.

Uh-huh. Name the Civic Center. I'm thinking way higher than.

Yeah. A quarterback. Yeah. That'd be something. But I would I don't know if I

have that.

Yeah. Yeah. Head name on their

city

hall but yeah and if multiple donors they can be recognized or something so yeah I think that's a good direction to go.

Yeah and I'll just chime in I love the concept and echo the sentiments that we should pursue private funding as much as possible. And I love the idea temporarily of an American flag. I think that would be really pretty and quite a statement. So anyway, but in the long term, I'd love to see something like this if possible.

Great. So there is no timeline on this at all. This is more or less. We will be working on this in the background. So if anything happens, I'll give you updates.

Yeah. If you're gonna have a chip in there, you might be able to ask at least one company. So,

yeah. That company

has already donated about, I think there's six of em that is going in an art installation over there as well. Great.

Awesome. Yeah. Thank you, Steve. Okay, item three, city goal and staff goal presentation. Beau is up.

Cameron normally gives us presentation. So, I'm audible tonight. For the first little bit of this, I wonder come back to our budget retreat conversation on our one thing goal, council's goal here. And this is kinda what's been put together. I'd like to take and maybe turn a little time over to Jason even to lead this discussion but we'd like to take a little time to see if we're headed in the right direction or not on this.

And I've got Ben and Mariah taking notes here. So if you guys wanna see changes to this, we'd we'd to like have just a little bit of a discussion.

So, Cameron put this together kind of synthesizing the feedback that he received from the council. Again, if there's feedback, we we'd love to hear it. We probably could go on for hours on this. But for tonight, the interest of time, we wanted to keep it relatively short. But if there is additional feedback or direction that you'd like to give us, we're all ears. So, thoughts, comments, concerns?

I actually like it. Good job.

Now, I'm nervous to make ask a change but any any way that we could change the word supports to values so foster a thriving family centered community that values opportunity safety belonging and a high quality of life therefore removing the sense that Lehi City like is out creating some form of a support if that makes sense.

Yep.

I don't know if that depends on how the council feels. Maybe I'm being too nitpicky but I think that would be good.

I actually I can't remember what the other words were, but I had a similar feedback when I was given the options. But I think that support is a softer word than I think some of them were like create or foster was one of them or, you know, other things. So I in my mind, I feel like supports is a good good enough word. But I yeah. I get what you're saying. Yeah.

Any other thoughts, comments?

I have no idea how to fit this in, but I would like a, I don't know, some kind of recognition that we're here our residents, that we value them. I mean, I guess the family centered community kind of does that a bit. But I just feel that our role in city government is just to value our residents and kind of help them provide services for them.

I don't know. Would you like it if it said supports a thriving family centered community that values opportunity, safety, belonging, and a high quality of life?

Maybe. I have no idea. Again, this would take hours, right?

I know.

For me to come up up with the wording. Yeah. But.

What if we just put for our residents at the end?

Yeah. Something Just like remembering why we're here,

what we're

doing this, who we're doing this work, and.

I like that.

I like that.

Thank For residents and I don't know. We can play with it but Yeah. Because we want to support those who commute here to work and

Yeah.

Recreate and shop here also, right?

But And single people that are here. I don't know. Sure.

Yeah. So, yeah, maybe we can play with that idea a little bit. Okay. Any anyone else comments? So, what I'm sensing is that we're close.

Honestly, if this was it, I'd give you an A plus plus plus.

Why don't we try one more time? We can play with that little ending and see what what feels right. Perfect.

Thank you, Bill.

I actually got a a little more here. I wanted to recap kind of from budget retreat goals. So, it's important to realize that all the all the goals that you guys put forth aren't going to be on this presentation. We tried to focus on the ones that had council majority. So, that's what you'll see here and I'm just going to kind of walk through those and show you how we as a city plan to support those goals.

So, Civic Center completion was one. The administrative department plans to develop a system for managing rentals of the community room, feature local artwork near the community room. Library will provide comprehensive training to staff on the new library to ensure efficient service delivery, adjust staffing allocations to maintain appropriate coverage across multiple service desks, restructure library programs, deliver high quality, accessible services for patrons across all age groups. Community outreach. Improve community outreach through new website and monthly emails promote city services and provide provide news and updates on major projects.

So administrative administratively, we plan to promote the new website with its texting and email capabilities. Been told that's supposed to go live April 2. The library engage residents through targeted email communications and social media platforms, expand outreach initiatives, ensure access to patrons unavailable to use the library in person. Literacy center, improve marketing to reach additional students through school literacy nights and city events, and recreation to educate residents on the impact of recreation on families and celebrate twenty five years of the Lehigh Legacy Center. General plan update, implement changes to the general plan and city policies that are business friendly.

So, economic development plans to support that by creating the Lehigh City Small Business Council and work with planning and zoning to make recommended changes to planning and zoning ordinances. Public safety, ensure public safety departments are adequate adequately staffed. So, police department plans to recruit and retain highly trained public safety professionals. This will come in the form of budget request and and included in the mayor's tentative budget. Fire department plans to strengthen recruiting and retention programs, ensure employees have an opportunity to advance their skills and knowledge through mentoring and training, and justice court provide fair and transparent criminal and traffic proceedings where rights are preserved and appropriate consequences are imposed.

Transportation was a big one that we heard. Improved vehicle and active transportations throughout the city. So community develop community development will develop a long term solution for 700 South Cycled track, coordinate with regional partners on the SR 92 pedestrian bridge, update the bike and pedestrian master plan. Engineering will expand 2300 West from Main Street to Pioneer Crossing with new traffic signals, additional lanes, pedestrian and trails and public works. We'll develop a priority based sidewalk improvement plan, expand and improve bike lane connectivity.

So then we get into kind of the future priorities, three to five years priorities, parks and rec. We have complete phase two of Family Park. Start the construction of Miller Roads Park. Public safety, fully staff our public safety departments, build and staff Fire Station 85. Transportation, complete the SR 92 pedestrian bridge.

So that's just kinda recaps some of the things we heard on your three to five year plans. And then kind of your someday stuff, parks and recreation, make Willow Park a regional attraction. And then transportation wise, point of the mountain, connect a road, complete sidewalks throughout the city, safe bike lanes and pedestrian crossings, and get everyone get everywhere in Lehi in less than twenty minutes. So, I want to kind of show you how we structure our goals here in the city based on year one goal that council sets. So our departments this is how so our department goals will basically state how we how will you support the citywide goal is is what the the goal is and then we have a strategy.

So, what's your strategy to meet the goal and then your majors and actions how you will know that you have accomplished your goal. So I'll just share administrative's goal here. Strengthen community engagement and invest in the growth and development of city employees. So that's our goal to support your goal essentially. And this kind of shows our strategies.

I won't go into the major actions but our strategy for that is increased community outreach by continuing to improve current communication channels and implementing new engagement strategies. Support emerging leaders with relevant training opportunities and protect the privacy of personal data collected through city programs and procedures. And then we have our major inactions there that support our strategies which support our goals. I have I have one of these for every department in the city. I'm not gonna go through there.

There's like 40 slides of department goal stuff. So what I'm gonna do is I'm planning on just sending that out to you guys and you guys can take a look at that. If you have any feedback, please let me know or Cameron. With that being said, I think that's really all I have unless you guys have questions.

So should we anticipate that the department goals reflect it's in somewhat like the budget request that they're submitting, right? That there should be some correlation to that.

Yes. Okay. Absolutely. Yep. And the budget committee also uses these as a guiding document. So, when we're trying to decide between one worthy budget request and another, kind of what ties into your goals and what we heard from you. So, yeah. Thank you.

Oh, sorry.

Go ahead.

No, go ahead.

Actually, Matt has something that Teal, she works so fast, put together based on our comment, our conversation just a minute ago. I think Matt sent it to Bo.

Beau, can you send the council the slides?

I will send the, I'll send the whole slide deck, yeah.

Okay, thank you.

We figured you wouldn't want to go through the whole thing tonight.

Yeah. But. I gave up in taking

notes. Yeah. Maybe we'll just have Matt plug in.

Yeah. It. Just hold, like, the slide deck.

You get one shot at plug in. If you unplug, you can't go back

in.

Rejects you. I'll just share it with the comments.

So as I understand, this is the updated goal if it shows up. So maybe feedback on this one. Maybe this incorporates some of what you've said, Michelle.

What

if we just

safety and something else before?

Yeah. What if we just add the last part of this to the other one? Yeah.

That sound good? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I'd like to see

what that is. So I remember Yeah.

We can

I forgot, like, five minutes ago? Live, work, and play.

So it's It's getting a little crazy. I think

it's insane. I think we need two little people climbing up that mountain too.

People come here to play sports. Lounge. They lounge. And shop. We could shop. We could get crazy.

You know, though, if you just end it with high quality of life, you can

For all.

Imagine who that it could for yeah.

I guess

you for doing all. I

know. I

like to list

the original.

We'll send out a couple versions of that via email and you guys can stew over it and

Okay. And my tent there is to remind us who we're doing this for and also be respectful. I mean, we could promise lots of fun, amazing things, and a high quality of life but it's their money.

Sure.

So, I, you know, we wanna provide a great city as much as we can or, you know, do what we can, but also keep that in mind. I guess is the thing is we're going into budget seizing a lot of good requests. Right?

Yeah. And would you consider resident to mean taxpayer?

But I don't wanna put that in

The only no. The only reason why I say that is because businesses also pay into the system. Yeah. Which is why I like that it was live and work.

Yes. Yes. And I do wanna be respectful of their tax dollars, but also make it a good place for them to business, right? Right. So.

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

No, you're good. You got this.

It's it's all great feedback. Like I said, we'll try and come up with something and get that out to you guys.

Any other questions? Thank you, Bill.

Okay. Thank

you. Steve, I have one question. In the new building when we plug in, will it plug in?

At least at first.

Thank you. Just I'm a little concerned now. Okay, working discussion items. Number one, discussion of mayor council term limits. Councilman Harrison, we'll start with you on that.

Yeah. Well, I just want to thank Ryan for his help on on drafting this. So, I brought this I brought this up just because it's it's very common to hear in the public realm, whether it's federal state or local, the need for term limits. And I think there's really good arguments for it. There's also very good arguments against it.

But I think the arguments for term limits outweigh the opposing arguments. And I think for me, I've already committed to no more than two terms in the city council in this position and and I think that's a good thing. I've I've learned a lot over the last two months. I think most I guess four of us up here have learned quite a bit. But I think it's always good to see new faces come in to rotate.

Think you know I've talked to a few of us up here. I think if you're in a city like you know Parwan or some small little city I don't know if term limits would make sense because you just you have a very small amount of people. For Lehi as we approach and surpass a 100,000 people I'm positive we have many, many willing individuals to participate in local government. So I think the one comment I'll have on the draft is I tend to support two terms per position. So two terms in as a council member, two terms as mayor permanent limit.

But I'm happy to hear other thoughts. Think we could go. I've heard from several folks like maybe we should have just two terms period no matter what the position is or three or maybe a break in between terms. I'd love to hear the thoughts on that but there's one other thing I was going to say but I forgot. So I'd love to hear the thoughts of my colleagues.

Mr. Mayor, if I may. So I'm finding myself in a bit of an awkward situation so I'm going to ask the council members to maybe grant me a little bit of grace because I'm going to try and say this and I hope you know I mean it with utmost respect. I'm the only person up here who lost an election. The rest of you won on your first try, which is great.

But I learned a a big lesson in my loss and it's ultimately that we are not in charge and that you can do everything you think you're doing right and you can do everything that you know send a mailer and knock a door and do great in a debate and know the most or whatever it is and ultimately we are not in charge that the residents decide who sits up here and we are simply temporary placeholders for the next generation. I like I told council member Harrison before when we discussed this, I don't really have a strong feeling either way right now. I just don't know if there is an actual problem to be solved here. I think the last election showed that Lehigh is exercising organic term limits, that none of our incumbents were reelected. In fact, two of the three didn't make it through the primary.

So I like to solve problems, and I'm I we had we have a handful of issues that we need to address. And I don't know if this is the problem that we need to focus on right now. And, ultimately, I've learned the lesson that we are not in charge that the residents are already doing term limits they're already cycling us out as they see fit and so again like on this specific policy I'm still somewhat neutral and would love to hear everybody's thoughts but zooming out at kind of that 10,000 foot view with the perspective I have of someone who didn't win the race. I believe that the that the residents are already doing what they're meant to be doing and that we this doesn't seem like it's solving and the problem affecting Lehigh. So it on that point, if this is something we choose to go down, I would much rather see this on the ballot than the five of us making this choice because I do trust the residents and this if we're going to meddle with the way that they elect their leadership I would rather them decide this than the five of us up here.

And Emily thank you just before we go to the rest that's what I forgot to mention. So those are very good points but so the ultimate goal I think for putting this up I think we can can talk about it for a couple months until after budget season and determine as a council what we'd like to do. I would love to see the council make a statement by passing this by ordinance. And then in the next general election putting it on the ballot for the voters to either say no to or to support. And the reason for that is if voters by initiative and Ryan correct me if I'm wrong but if we pass something as a council another council can reverse it.

If we put it to voters only voters can reverse it again. And I think that shows respect as you as you said Emily for the voters to determine if that's the right thing. And don't think and Ryan, me if we did let's say we pass this in the next couple months and then we put it before voters in the general election and they reject it. Then it will then our vote it wouldn't have applied anyway, right?

My understanding. We didn't do a lot of extensive research yet. But there's a consensus that we move forward with this then we'll look at all those issues for sure. But I think that's true.

And for me I'm happy, we talked about this a little bit Ryan, but I'd love you to explain it to the rest of us. I would be totally fine if it was retroactively applied for myself even though I know I've already set my own limits. But legally that's not really applicable, right?

Yeah, again better research but the research that we did seems to show that running for office is kind of a substantive right that residents have. And so if you're already currently in a term then it could only be two additional terms. We couldn't say this counts as the one of the two. But again, we'll verify that because didn't dig really deep on the case law. We just kind of did a quick check. Okay.

So James and I have debated this, I'm gonna say. Because I go back to the constitution and I say there was not originally term limits and but then there were term limits because you know president died after so many terms and blah blah blah and some people feel like it does help to have term limits to I guess prevent people from taking advantage of the system and getting kind of lazy not being as motivated and involved as a maybe legislative body or legislator. And I can see I can see the arguments for both and I actually, that's why I feel like I feel like this is a good compromise because you can having two consecutive term limits. But if, you know, because Mayor Binns is going to do an awesome job, and in ten years we want mayor Binns back and he decides he wants to run again, he could come back after a mandatory break of service of at least one full election cycle, which in my mind I think we say is four years. You have to work hard to be elected again.

I think that's enough time for the new people that are elected to get roots and show what they can do. And it also gives you some time to have some distance and to evaluate if you're going to run again and have to work for it a little bit. I guess just that that's my view. I think we could I would be happy with the way that this is. I think if we say if it's saying full election cycle, we say four years or what we wanna say define that as, but we say that it's contingent referendum or whatever the voters passing it, basically?

Once you've passed it. Once you've once you've passed it, it would be a referendum.

So, anyways, that's that's where I'm at with this.

Alright. So I can't support a policy that's going to take away the rights of the voters to choose who represents them. And I also don't believe the voters of 2027 should be able to determine who the voters of 2037 represent either. So I Michelle just said something I think was very powerful in the last going through that. She said, we're here for our residents. We value them. Passing something like this tells me we do not value them and we do not trust them. I think that I trust the voters of Lehigh. I think they've shown that. I think that you look back over past elections and our mayors have not gone beyond two terms.

Council members other than Johnny Revel haven't gone beyond three. Saratoga passed one to limit it to three. I had a council member who's going for a six. I reached out to Mayor Karnes. I said, I know you guys were talking about two. Why did you determine three? He said, because we are concerned that there may we may lose someone who is really good. And so we don't wanna hinder too much. But I think our voters with this last election, with the school district split, they've shown they can do the research needed. They can make really tough decisions.

I think putting a policy in like this two months into a new council just shows that we assume they can't make those decisions for themselves. And I think it'd be very pretentious of me to say that I'm only going to serve two terms. I've been elected for one. That's all that I have. And so I don't know that I would run again.

I don't know that I'd be elected again. But right now, it's one, and that is all of us. And our voters have not had the chance to hold any of us accountable for anything that we said we would do or we have done or we haven't done. So I think that term limits, I would want to go and really study this, but just doing a little bit of studying on it, it shows that it can force out leaders just when they become most effective. Your first term is often spent learning the complexity of governing a city. Experience and institutional knowledge matter, especially in a growing city like Lehi. Studies show that limiting terms reduces that institutional knowledge and less legislative effectiveness. It also shows that the power shifts when that happens. We have a lot of turnover. The power will shift to staff.

It will shift to consultants when those experienced leaders are forced out. And then also when officials know that they can't run again, their second term has shown that they're less productive because they're less accountable because they're not concerned about running again. Lehigh is widely recognized throughout the state as one of the having one of the strongest economic engines. And despite some of the rhetoric out there, we've seen that our finances are sound, our city's in a strong position. And so that has come from having that steady leadership.

And so I think there's other things that we could look at too if we're worried about incumbency being a leg up. Do we want to limit the amount that you can spend? Because I think spending and the amount people spend on election can really have a huge impact on who is elected. But I, as a voter, I want to make sure that I am electing the best people into those positions. And I think it's really difficult to even imagine doing this level of service for eight, twelve years.

That would be really difficult for me. I know it'd be difficult for my family, but if we have really great leaders who are doing really great things, I don't wanna say that we five people have more knowledge that we know better than those voters in 2027 or 2037. So that's why it'd be it'd be really difficult for me to do anything that I'm going to take away the voters right to determine that.

Can I ask a follow-up question? Yeah. Would you be open for it to be on a referendum for the voters to decide?

Yeah, other than those voters are deciding what future voters are going to be able to do. I think that's a better way to do it for sure. Because I don't think us five and six should be making that decision, especially so new into what we're doing right now. This I feel like this we're paving a new path. Are we going to show that we're going to be is Lehigh going to be better in two, four years than we were two, four years ago? Like, what are we going to be able to do to prove with the the tune over, is new blood more important and more effective than institutional knowledge and past experience, which, you know, and and I think that's something that the voters are going to have to weigh out.

It's not the five of us to determine that. It's it's the residents of Lehi who get to determine that, right?

Any comment? I think there are definitely pros and cons. But in my opinion and I've stood by this principle on other issues as well. But anything that involves elections where the people are electing who represents them, they're the ones who need to set the rules. I was firm with that on ranked choice voting.

I didn't think the council who would be affected by it should be making that decision. I thought it should have been gone to should have gone to the vote of the people. Again, years and years ago, the city looked at changing the form government. And I'm on record for saying that that should have gone to the vote of the people as well. So with term limits, it would absolutely have to go to a vote of the people.

And I would be Okay not passing something. I think just putting it on the ballot would be a strong message that we think this is possibly a good idea, but ultimately it's up for the people to decide that. Again, I see pros and cons. But I do want to say experience matters versus new blood. Having experienced both sides of that, I'm thrilled having a new council and having new people elected.

I see new energy, and they come in with great ideas and with the energy to change it. And they're studying things out. And I personally can see a huge difference, not just policy wise, but just that idea of bringing energy to the council. Because this is a tough job, it wears you out. And so I can understand how easily it is it would be to become just kind of lackadaisical and just say, yes, staff. We trust you. Go for it. You know? So I see something good there. And honestly, I tend to think people are doing this for the right reasons.

Probably don't want to stay a long time. They probably want I mean, think of George Washington. He served well. But he was ready to step down after two terms and go back to his life and his family. Which again, going back to the motto that we're working on, we're here for residents to provide for them a good life. And it should be a good life that us up here would like to go back to someday. I know I would. So there's that. And I do want to point out I mean, incumbents do have an advantage. Heather and I got elected when there was vacancies.

Two people stepped down. So I don't know if we ran against incumbents if we would have got elected. We had a mayor who stepped down. So we have a new mayor. I think it's easier when people decide to step down for people to fill their spots. And the incumbents, they have connections. They know people. They have donations. So it's for new people to run against them. But again, there is some knowledge you would lose.

And there's the lame duck. You experience that. Whether it's term limits that make somebody step down or just their desire to step down, you get a lot of things happening that might not happen if they would be accountable during another election. So there's pros and cons. I think I tend to see more pros.

But again, this is for the people to decide and weigh out. And they can have that discussion, but it will affect them. And I'm okay with people deciding now in the future because they can always bring it back through an initiative or referendum. But, again, yeah, I see value in that because if we just passed it on our own, the next council could undo it, you know, which would be their right to do. So definitely go to the people and let them hash it out, and I imagine the debates will be fun to listen to.

But I I'll let them decide, and I I think for the most part, I'd stay out of it. But I support this. One thing I do want to add, though, the language in this, if you're going to go off of the language that you presented, definition of unelected officials should include somebody appointed as well. That state law includes that. But how you want to handle that, I don't know. Because that creates something. Like in Emily's case appointed halfway through the term would that count is her first term or not so that's something you might want to

think through too. I think the current language wouldn't exclude like let's say Emily gets reelected it would exclude

this So intentionally leaving out an appointed person.

I think so and that's yeah Ryan Ryan addressed that a

little bit.

Okay. That makes sense. So this is your freebie if it has I don't know.

As far as I it's all the freebie. Yeah. I I'm not guaranteed anything, and that was kind of my point. Because I there's wisdom in the loss. You realize that you don't have control. It's not up to you. And it never will be up to any of us. It's up to the residents and the voters of Lehi. So and they're already organically doing it.

The so one concern I do have with running it this next year, I don't want to pay for ballots when we don't have an election. I think if we throw it on with other ones but that was something with the school district split where I don't know how much that cost us. Yeah. To do that.

We do it in a non municipal year. The county would.

Like 75, $150.00 to do this to put it forward because we'd have to do well, it would just go with the general, right? So maybe it's $75.00.

Yeah. So Still a cost. But I thought that was your intent, no?

Maybe go with 2027?

Yeah. I mean, so Tisha, you're saying if it was next year's elections, twenty twenty seven municipal elections that would be something we would have to before the county would.

It wouldn't be this year. It would be when we actually run an election.

Next year's election. We want to do it on a municipal year municipal election year to save

on costs.

Yeah. Yeah and that's and that's my intent.

Okay. Yeah. And I I'm flexible. I kind of prefer just the two term or three term or whatever you decide limit and not have to keep track of years. Somebody, you know, just to make it clean but I'm flexible also.

I I I think if you

were to do three terms, it's kind of pretty much in line with what, I mean, it's in line with Saratoga. It's in line with what the residents have already shown and then you don't have an outlier kinda like what other cities have had. I think there could be stronger arguments made even though I think two terms is perfect too. I'm with you as much as I'm just like I get a stand on the we have one term and and work really hard. But I I don't want anybody to take their second term easy thinking that it doesn't matter because they can't be elected again. Guess unless they wanted to take two years off. But

Yeah. And I think Michelle what you were saying is like I if I understood right, the counting between like the the first two terms and then if you come back after four or something like that. I I the when James and I spoke about this on the phone, one of the things that I said to him is, you know, James, you and I are pretty young. And if we come back in our sixties, right? Like let's say we serve two terms and in our sixties we're like our neighbors knock on our door and say, hey in 2027 you were awesome. Can you come back? But if we already served our two terms in our 30s, why couldn't we come back? Right? No. No.

So that I'm explaining that's why James was like, well, let's add in this, like, as long as you have this break, then you could come back. Because we what if that person really is great and later in life they're ready for or the residents are ready for them to come back. Right? So again, I think it works just getting really tricky and ultimately back I mean, I'm broken record, but it's just no matter what we write, it's really not ours to write. It's the residents path to write.

Maybe I can make a suggestion if there's at least a consensus that three of you want to see something go on the ballot in 2027 and we can go do that research more in-depth we can bring back you know a version of this ordinance that kind of just has placeholders for the number of terms for is it consecutive or is it cumulative right so right now it's drafted that you can only serve two consecutively but it would solve you know, if you said, if there's not a total term limit, then you could come back, you could serve two now and come back in your sixties and serve another two. But we can just kind of put placeholders so you can have that debate when we get the rest of the issues, that maybe the overall issues worked out since we have a lot of time rather than having to have again it's up to you but rather than having to have the debate on the specifics tonight at least we know that there's a majority of you in favor of the concept and then we can work on that and bring it back to you to fill in the details.

Any comments on that?

Are we fine with letting Mr. Wood run with some concepts?

Yeah, I think quick voice vote on our do we have a majority that are supportive? I am obviously.

I am. And right now I'm leaning towards two terms and just leave it at that. But I think we have times we could have more discussion on it. So

I'm fine with you doing research on it. I'm not set on any certain amount of terms, and I argued with James this already about being able to come back because I know I'm not as young as you guys but I I have a little life left in me if I decide to come back in my sixties also.

Okay I'm not so young either but I might want to come back,

I don't know. Probably won't but.

Maybe no one will knock on my door, but we'll see.

I would just say like if we do, if we think that there should be a, it's you know two consecutive and then a break, I would be in favor of maybe a longer break than two or four years just because you know human nature unfortunate you know if you look at Congress you could have people go into Congress pass laws to benefit their private business, then they leave, they go do their private business, and they come back and they make more so I think having a little bit longer of a break, like a ten year break, which would resolve kind of the issue that Emily brought up. But that's where I'm at. So I think we could draft something that has just the strict two term limit and then have something that has some sort of break in it.

And right now, I had to restart my computer. But I think it says two. The two years is if you can run you could serve two terms as the mayor then you have to take a two year break and then you could run for council. You can't take a two year break and run for mayor again as it's currently drafted.

Right.

So do you care do you care whether it's different elected position?

I thought it

was currently drafted that there was no limit that you could go right from counsel to mayor there wasn't a break.

Yeah, think the intent was two terms per position. The same position. Mayor's position and counsel being materially different. Yeah.

And it said full election cycle as a break. In my in my mind, I'm interpreting that as four years. But it sounds like some interpret Yeah. That as

We just wanna make it clear. Yeah.

Any other comments? So, Ryan, will you go and dive into this a little bit and then bring it back and we'll kind of go through that?

Yeah, we'll we'll do the research too on if if There's got to be some action by the council to get it on the ballot and so we'll have

to get a little bit

without passing it necessarily and then putting up for referendum but that might be what you have to do but just we'll just make sure that we know the the procedures and make it clear that yeah that we're and when you have the debate you're passing this but you're passing it for the purposes of putting it on the ballot

so pass a resolution

yeah something like that and we'll I'll have that fleshed out when we bring it back

and that's something we would vote on. So if we get feedback from residents or think it's a terrible idea we could just pull it too.

Right. But not until 2020. Late summer twenty twenty seven.

Well that's that's what I was gonna on timeline like we're a fresh council and we're four of us have never done a budget cycle. I would really like to push this off into maybe later this year. Right? Like it I don't want this on April or May. Need we all need to be Yeah, focused on

mean if it's not going to go on the ballot until November '27, then I'm okay with Can we

revisit in twelve months?

Exactly. I'm okay We'll with

research the time like I know there's certain days you have to pass it and then give a certain number of days for it to go on the ballot, and we'll we'll have that all worked out when we bring

it So, Ryan, this would be similar to the school district one. We'd have to have this the public hearings and do those things and do the whole process.

Reprends are really an extensive process. Yeah.

Okay. Cool. I just don't want to do my first budget experience plus the you know, an extensive referendum at the same time.

So. Well,

let me give all day. Today is day number 65. So, so you know. You're counting. Oh, know.

Do have the chalk marks?

I can't wait for day 66.

How many hours a day?

I cannot lose up by during the discussion.

Five hundred.

Okay, item two. Discussion of Ivory Innovations lease agreements. I think you're speaking. Come on up.

We just have the contract that we've been working through with Ivory Homes. I also have Ashley Hadfield from Ivory Homes here. Just wondered if you had any questions concerning the contract. For the satellite literacy center.

I was just wondering where it says that it's, I believe it's Lehigh City is responsible for the glass, windows and glass. That was the only thing that I was questioning there.

Is that if it we have breakage, Ashley?

Okay. And how how how long is the since I, you know, obviously, weren't here with the previous counsel who made this decision. Is there a separate agreement of how long this is relationship is?

There's a I believe it's

a twenty

year agreement.

Okay. So

How are you doing? You're fine.

Go ahead. Step up here.

So, I, yeah, so this initial is for twenty years and then with any extensions just acting on good faith between us and the council. Maybe some clarifications to make as well. So, is with Ivory Innovations. We are a five zero one C3 operating foundation. Our two main missions is housing affordability and early childhood education.

And that kind of goes back and forth with our other foundations on the child education piece. So the Holbrook Innovation Park community is an affordable community. That is here in Lehi that we've been working with the previous council on doing. That is we're in construction for phase two and phase one has stabilized too and I can talk through that but that's just a little bit of the background as well just hopefully that adds a little bit more there as well.

So if I read this right it was a dollar for twenty years okay when I saw that as I said Per year. Per year. Okay because that was gonna be my next question. Yeah. Are you getting that annually or do we just give you $20 now? Like that seems so

You know, I I think it was more on a legal standpoint of having that per year that we just had to have it papered. Okay. But our our intent on this has been, hey, we love the Rippee Center and you know, even going back to Hester Rippee who founded it with her intention of it and we want to support great programs and cities doing great things like that to help develop this next generation coming forward.

Okay and I saw that in the agreement they would be property tax exempt but the they would be sharing maintenance and insurance costs and so and maybe this is a question for staff how if you're getting the insurance how are we predicting what that insurance cost is and how you're allocating that to us over the twenty years?

Yeah so we're planning right now on doing this in a typical CAM methodology so every year our team will say hey here's the budget that we have it'll be on a per square foot basis for what the costs are we'll go through and work together on approving that and then sign off on it and then just break that out monthly for the rent.

Okay I think I'm worried that insurance costs for whatever reason would spike and we having no control over something like that would be subjected to paying for a spike we're not predicting or accounting budget wise for and maybe I just don't know if these cost sharing programs well enough but is that something I should worry about? Yeah. Jason is.

I don't know. Yeah. You all go?

Yeah, I I get what you're saying. I don't know if there's language that we could put to kind of mitigate that that you guys would be comfortable with but.

I think we just need to probably work it round through with our legal teams but we're amenable to try to make sure that our whole intent behind this has been to make it as fair and equitable as possible and I do think that you know you guys are maintaining your own general liability and workers comp for this as well so it's just on the actual premise of what's the best way to do that then.

And if you want you guys can direct us to.

No I my concern is just we have a cost listed that's given no numbers behind it and insurance costs from my understanding are somewhat unpredictable and rise at times and so, yeah, I just saw a risk to the city but. Sure. I I wanted to call it out and then if you guys want to think through it, great. If not, I I mean, I just don't do these enough to know.

Yeah. So, again, I mean, you guys as part of your motion can direct us to, you know, research or negotiate this and come to something that we all feel comfortable with. So.

I don't know. Do you guys, I mean, mister mayor, I know this is kind of your world. Is it my maybe risk where there is none or?

Well, normally in an insurance policy and I would assume in Lehi's and I've never read it but in an insurance policy, what happens is anywhere we do business, the liability extends. So, if we have a general policy here at City Hall, it would extend all of our properties outlying. So it would clear us of work comp, right? And it would also clear us of the general liability, which is already written in there. And that's already under the umbrella of the policy that's written here at the high city, I would have guessed. Now, if I ask Scott, I would Scott would probably tell us the exact same thing, but that's normally how it works.

Yeah. I think the sentence that I flagged was tenants shall be responsible for its proportionate share of maintenance and insurance costs associated with the premise. Tenants proportionate share shall be calculated based on the ratio of rentable square footage. We'll get out into the Northwest.

Jason, can we get staff just to look at that insurance wise and then we'll get some answers back.

Yeah. We can take a a stab at some of those other off ramps and language like that too. Yeah. So. Okay.

And because I know that this is a new council, I do have some information about our impact reports and the mission that we do. If you guys are interested, I'll just leave that with staff

Great. As

Well, thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you.

Our third item, discussion of a proposal to conduct a feasibility study for an ice center. Marlon, we'll turn it over to you.

Council, before you tonight, we just have a fee proposal from Babcock Design is to do a feasibility study for to study the feasibility for two and or three ice sheets to create a sports complex. The total for the stage one fee would be $33,725 I did speak with Dean, and we would be looking at utilizing RDA funding to pay for this feasibility study. The feasibility study would come back and at least let us know is it feasible to look at creating some type of sports complex? What would it look like, and most of all, what would the cost be for the facility and would the facility itself make money, break even, or lose money on an annual basis. So if the council so desires, we can go ahead.

We would be able to move forward with this feasibility study that would then answer a lot of questions that we're probably wondering about. Again, is this feasible? Does it make sense? And then once we get the feasibility study back, if it's something that the council would like to move forward with, then we can start looking deeper into future potential for land sites and some different areas that it might be able to be located within Lehi.

Marlon, is this single use, as in this is only for hockey, it's not a multi use facility, right?

So we're looking at a two stage facility. The first one would be three rinks for ice hockey, an expansion to look at bringing in some type of maybe basketball courts. And not just like one or two, we would probably look at like 15 basketball courts that could then also be transformed into gymnasium space or gymnastics or wrestling or pickleball tournaments or volleyball tournaments. This would be a sports complex. The sole focus of this would be for money generation. So tournaments coming on a regional national level, allowing for sports teams to come in and do practices and stuff like that.

Are you talking about putting the floor over

No. Would design it such that you would have your three sheets, a center hallway, and then on the back side, on the other side of the building, when you come down the main hallway, it would open up. This side would be the basketball courts and stuff like this. This side would be the ice hockey courts or the ice hockey arenas, the three sheets. So it would be one large facility.

How long does the feasibility study take?

They said it would take about ninety days, three months.

Is this anything we're looking at doing in conjunction with Utah County as a partner?

Yes, this is.

So would they also contribute to studying and?

We have not asked them for that.

Okay.

But they have stated that they have looked at alternate funding sources to help fund something like this. My personal view on this is that the county is very interested in seeing ice hockey located here in Utah County. If another city has the opportunity to bring something forward, the county would also look at funding that. I think it's going to be first one to the finish line. Okay.

The county is going to be interested in looking at. Now, is the county also looking at maybe one or two or three potential splitting up the pot that they have that I have not talked with the county commission about but I do know that they have committed funds to looking at building some type of a sports complex.

Right. So

my view is that this is driven by the county. Commissioner. I believe it's on them. The impetus is on them to do the study. Because I know this has been a conversation that has come forward over and over again driven by the county.

And I yeah. I don't know if it this is with entering a new budget season as a new council, I don't know if I feel comfortable committing to something like this at this time. I just feel like it's a little bit early to to pull the trigger on something like this in my opinion. Especially because I think we need to have some other conversations with the county before we do something like this. I know that Lehigh is highly favorable location.

It's very preferred, easy, easily accessible for looking at tournament wise and so yeah, I sent out to all the council I received a pro form a from the county commissioner that I sent out to the entire council is based on a single rank but I think I haven't had a chance to actually look at it myself and I think that that's something we need to look at and to have some conversations with them personally.

Can I ask some operational questions? So that like is there would the study answer that I guess?

The study should answer it. I did preemptively went and looked at a three sheet ice rink, and we were able to talk with the general manager as well as the operator, the main maintenance director. He took us behind the scenes and showed us all the everything that works behind as far as the chillers and the Zamboni's and everything like that. So we were able to talk to him a little bit about what are costs? Do these make money, do they lose money, do you break even, what do you get.

So I can answer some of those questions just based on the information that I received from him but we also still need to validate that information that was just received from him.

Okay. Okay, so so I'll take your answers I guess with a bit of grain of salt please.

That's what I'm saying.

We had a private partner this the county and then we had maybe another private partner and the city right or whatever this structure looks like.

Correct.

Would the concept be that we profit share with all those entities or Lehigh they all pay in to build this and Lehigh maintains operates and receives all of the profit from the tax revenue?

That is the general direction that I would recommend to the council is yes that the funds come in to help build it but ultimately at the end of the day the city because we would be responsible as the city to own it operate it and then the revenue generation from it.

And because we were owning operating like we would see like we'd get revenue we'd have operating costs we'd get profit but then like are there any other sources that I guess would feed into the general fund like fees or anything like that that we'd be charging people I guess?

I cannot answer

that I don't

don't know.

Because I know that we've had conversations as a council during the budget retreat where we're trying to decrease the burden of property tax on our residents and find opportunities for sales tax. And I don't know if this ice rink could do that, but the study would tell us if it would do that. And I know some of us have heartburn over RDAs. And I'm like, well, this isn't an RDA, but it could give us the same effect of getting our general fund to grow without increasing property tax so I'm open to studying this because I feel like that we just don't know and once we get the study back we could know this information to make a confident decision of whether this was right for the residents long term.

Yeah let me make one clarifying comment we're utilizing RDA funds to pay for the study we are not We are not going to use an RDA to build this or anything like that. We're only stating utilizing some of the administrative funds that come in through some of the funds that come in through Texas Instruments as the payment mechanism for the feasibility study.

Yeah, I'm glad you clarified. What I was talking about was just simply, you know, an RDA tax incentive structure for a Costco or something like that's one way of growing the general fund this however is a different way that and maybe it is maybe it's not that's what the study would help us figure out but this would help us grow the general fund to provide the essential services possibly and we just won't know until we study it and so I'm absolutely open to learning more because if if there's any way that we can do that without you know an RDA or increasing property taxes or anything I'm all ears and a study is just information so. Marlin how long

will that study take if we were to like we were to give you the go ahead now how long would it take before we'd have the answers?

Approximately three months. Okay.

May I ask some questions? Sure. So this isn't part of a RDA project area. You'd use the administrative. We can do that. We can use RDA administrative Well, fees for whatever we want

in talking with Dean, Dean felt that the RDA funds that we receive can go towards the economic development, and this would be economic development. So he felt comfortable utilizing those funds for that. I went to Dean and asked a simple question. I'm asking the council to spend $33,000 What pot does it come from? As Dean and I talked about it and debated it back and forth, he said, Why don't we take it from the RDA? So that was kind of the general consensus between Dean and I, is to fund it through the RDA.

So you consider this well, I guess you're saying it's profitable. So that you consider this economic development more than just a recreational amenity. Is that

That is correct. Because we're viewing this as a sports complex, not as a recreational facility.

They seem the same to me, but I'll take your word for that. So what city did you visit and look at the ice rink?

It was in Denver, Colorado. It was Littleton. I think it was Littleton. No, Aurora. Sorry, Colorado.

Aurora, oh.

Yeah. And it was a suburban, I think it was Suburban Ice Rink is what it was called. I can get you the exact information.

Oh, okay. I probably looked at that one.

Yeah, it's an actual three rink. It does have three ice sheets. It does have the open basketball courts. And they also have a astroturf, two astroturf facilities for indoor soccer, indoor lacrosse, and other programs that are slated for that.

Okay. And it's publicly owned and operated?

Yes. Okay. Yes.

Did look at some in that area. And I know Denver had one that was private. And then there were two in the outlying communities. And from what I saw, one was it ran a deficit and the other one broke even sometimes. So I'll just give my comments, I guess.

First of all, I mean, we have the legacy center, the same kind of thing. We're almost 2,000,000, and it grows each year in deficit that we have to subsidize from the general fund. So first thought is, let's get that fixed and figure it out before you start a similar venture. The other thing is this would be a regional amenity or sports complex. And I don't want to go down that road again where taxpayers, Lehigh City taxpayers, are going to bear the financial responsibility of that when it's going to service multiple cities.

So, if he even went down this road which I'm fully against, I think it should be the other city should have to have buy in. It would have to be some kind of interlocal agreement with them where they their their residents are going to use this facility and they should get to help subsidize it as well. I don't see that happening. I know Saratoga Springs, I've talked to their mayor and council members, and they're happy to use our legacy center, but they're not interested in helping us build another one out west. I feel the county is the one driving this, And I've talked to our county commissioner in Beltrum about this.

You know? And he's got a certain amount of money committed. But he says, whatever size, this is as much as we can give you. But I don't know if you've I've heard that you haven't had much conversation with him. So I think I feel the same as Rachel that the county wants this, then they ought to fund the study.

They've done some of that research already. I heard their numbers. Their pro form a came from LRB. So it's not just numbers they pulled out of the air. I and I I think if the county wants this and they are looking at different cities to do this, the county should operate it.

I mean, it's easy enough to come up with one time funds, especially when you have dedicated funds that can only be used for tourism or you're getting grants from the state or whatever. It's those ongoing costs that kill us. And so I suggested, well, the county wants this, they can contract with a private entity to operate it. And what I got response was a laugh. We don't do that.

And I said, well, you're smart not to. It's a big risk, and it's not a risk I want to put on a residence. And I'm not comfortable with spending even $30,000 on it because a study can say one thing. Heather and I have seen feasibility studies from other entities that will tell them what they want to hear. So yeah, this is not a direction I want to go.

I think we need to we have projects that we need to finish what we started. And there are some promises we made that we need to start those projects. And I'd rather focus on those. And again, new council. This is probably not something you want to take on right now is what I would suggest. So that's my 2¢.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, I would there's a lot of partners out there. I mean, we've been talking about this for a while. I've been talking with Utah County for a while about this. I know what they've been going down with their path to. There's a lot out there wanting to get this built including, you know, Smith and and Tennant Group. I do feel like we're in a race. There's a lot of cities that want to see this happen. I think this could be incredible ity for all the things we've said, but also for the schools that like there's to be able to have hockey teams and and things like that going on. So, there's potential partnerships with school district as well. I think our new school district, this could be something that would be a benefit to them.

So I think there's a lot of things with conversations that could happen. I also think back to the survey that we just had from our residents that was shockingly surprised by the fact that they want more. They want another legacy center and they'll pay for it. So to have that kind of feedback coming from residents where we have a very conservative penny pinching council right now, I'm included on that, and then to hear from residents that they want more and to like see the feedback when we didn't do the ice rink and how upset people were about that too so it's like we're trying to balance the needs and wants of residents who are in a lot of ways very conservative and don't want to do it and and other ways, they're like, we're in Lehi and we're we've done really well and we wanted, you know, there's a reason we live in Lehi. There's a reason we pay a premium to be here in Lehi because we expect to have services and amenities that are above and beyond what other cities have.

So, I think that there's potential maybe, you know, reaching out to the county, see what things we could do together. I know that we would love to take what they have and build more with it and give especially on the West Side. I feel like that area has really been because we with the park bond failing years ago and the slow build out and how long it's taken to be able to get ballparks and everything out there with Mailer Roads. I don't want to lose an opportunity that could be there if we just started knocking on some doors. So that's where my my push would be. I I don't want to close the door on something that I I don't know what could be this potential great benefit for Lehigh residents because of you know my own conservatism.

I think from my perspective I kind of agree with everyone on all the different views right best case scenario it turns out very profitable it brings in more more economic development which helps us keep property taxes low, right? It's a regional attraction and it bleeds out to other retail and restaurants and stuff that bring money into the city. And part of that best case scenario is it's mostly paid for in the construction. And then of course on the other side, worst case scenario, doesn't pan out right it's built it's expensive it's a drain on taxpayer money. At this point I just don't don't have the data to make that determination because some things are profitable and some things are a drain.

I would love it if the county would be willing to help do the study to pay for the study so that if they're serious about Lehigh I think they'd be willing to put out this money to do the study so we actually know if there's a chance of it being profitable. Because Heather's right that a lot of residents want these things. From our perspective we have to be careful with money and be respectful of taxpayer funds. That's kind of where I'm at. I think we can get the county to pay for the study then great.

So my thought if I was a county commissioner and I had multiple cities in my county coming to me begging for the 7,000,000 they're offering and then I go and do a study with Lehi it's a it's a big slap in the face to the other cities who are asking and so I don't know if they'll help us chip in because they're already offering 7,000,000 so would you be comfortable with giving the go ahead to spend the 33 but asking, you know, asking Marlin to go and ask the county if they'd be willing to chip in anything. If they chip in something, great. But if they don't, would you still be willing to spend the 33? To get the data you need. Because right now, James, to your point and I completely agree.

What if the like, we just don't know what we don't know. What if this increased the general fund by two percent wouldn't that be great like we just don't know and because we don't know the information we're just walking away you know like we have over $300,000,000 budget we're talking about 33,000 to get information that could potentially give us an increase of the general fund year over year for who knows how long right like we are responsible for making good decisions based in data and this study gives us that data and I if we can get the county to chip in a couple grand to help us out awesome but I just don't know that we can walk away when we when like James said we just don't have we don't know yet so let's go find out and then we can have discussion about if this is right or wrong. But

we just don't know. Is it a slap in the face the fact that they're willing to put up 7,000,000 or they get it they were willing to put up 7,000,000 to somebody else? Like, that's huge. I hadn't heard that number. So I really hate making decisions based on opinion and not having data, and it really is It's a channel of previous council member, you know, it's a rounding error when you come to the list of the size of that. But if it's coming out of the RDA, I wouldn't want to lose this. And I I think that we're we're risking something that could potentially go to somebody else.

Well, maybe Dean or Marlon can help us clarify but like the RDA funds that you're using those are not property tax funds those those are not coming from residents right that's coming from the RDA with Texas Instruments which to to me I feel really comfortable if residents ask me why did you pay for that study well a part of the RDA with TI was that we could pursue economic development TI paid for it they didn't pay for it TI did So I feel really I feel a lot more comfortable about the 33 knowing that the residents didn't pay for this.

Excuse me. Did you want

to Just where I'm at is I feel like I would table this for two weeks and have more conversations with the county. I think that it's it is an option worth exploring with if we're using RDA funding. I have know four people who own four different gyms, basketball court gyms. Unique was actually multi multiple courts up there basketball gym that went under ended up you know I knew the person who managed that I know it can be very difficult to be profitable in the private sector even so I do see that there, but there, you know, like I said, I know people who do it. So I just think that I would like to have some more conversations.

I would have told you guys this before the council. I still feel the same way. I just we haven't had enough time to fully discuss it and I don't know if we're gonna get anywhere exactly tonight without full information from the county in my opinion.

And I would add, yeah, let's let's look at the data and let's look at how many ice skating rinks, public ice skating rinks are actually turning a profit that can help fund the general fund. I'd like to know that based, you know, just that alone. I'm pretty sure what I'm going to find there. But again, I've asked this for ever since I been on the council. The Legacy Center, again, running such a huge deficit. Let's do a study on that and make it a little more profitable so we can subsidize it a little less. Sitting again through we're day two of budget discussions. There's a lot of needs in this city. And yeah, people want the amenities. And some people are willing to pay higher taxes.

Not everybody. We've got to be considerate of all our taxpayers, not just the ones who are vocal, not the ones who do make comments on Facebook or whatever. We've got to be very respectful of our taxpayers. Here's the thing. If this is as profitable as is being presented or suggested tonight, the private entities would do it themselves.

The county could contract a private entity to do that. I mean, Seven Peaks went through this. I went through the history of that. It started out as a partnership with Provo City and the county and then county bailed on them. You know, I I don't want to put our residents through that and I I don't want to go down the road of investing in a feasibility study because once we head down this road and get people excited, they're going to expect it.

And I just this is going to be a huge burden on taxpayers. That's what I see. So let's fix the legacy center first. Let's see if we can actually run these things well before we start investing all this money and time and energy into something that, honestly, I don't see whatever turn a profit to help with the general fund. Well and I would like to see sorry. I would like to see anywhere in The United States where that actually happens. Where there's millions of dollars that can go to the general fund from something like this. I would like to see that before we even go any further.

Well and I think council member that's what this study will do. We can direct the people running the study to give you that information.

No it's easy enough to do a search before we have to spend this money and you know if administration fees for RDAs can be used for economic development there might be something better to use that money for.

Well and one thing I want to clarify just because I've been in the sports area for a while is this is different than the Legacy Center. This is like a fee for in my understanding and because I travel to tournaments all over The US is you pay to use it. Each team pays hundreds if not thousands of dollars to come. It's like you might have an hour that is like open to the public to do that Lehigh City would designate, but it's not this isn't like a recreation center. This is like rental of these facilities where you will make a profit you're hoping you'll make a profit you have to at least cover your costs is my like I don't know we had a basketball tournament at the Rangers in town in Texas they laid courts over the baseball fields fields and there's associations that do this.

I don't know. So Rachel It's a little different.

Just a question about So it's not just open to that general public to

Well, not tip something like this from what my understanding is, correct me if I'm wrong Marlon, but it's you might have designated public hours, but it's typically you're gonna it's going to be limited. You'll have like teams or clubs that are renting the surface to use it. And like if there's a tournament, it'll be over a weekend. That's like a three day thing. And you'll your the goal is to get every weekend full.

That's how you and I mean, takes a lot of work to do that because, like I said, I have multiple people who do it, but the goal is to to host these tournaments to and then you wanna have people that are regularly practicing there every single night multiple multiple hours from whenever school gets out at two until ten p. M. If you can host things during the day for homeschool, for preschools, whatever. Like you're just trying to get people to reserve your facility to pay the fees and you basically have monopoly on it, I guess.

Well and the unique thing about hockey is you you can practice soccer in your backyard. You can only skate on it on a sheet of ice. So it's actually like these teams will essentially only be able to either practice, you know, seven peaks if if this Lehi thing happened and then the sandy location when the mammoth aren't on the ice right so we were holding the the ice that they can't practice anywhere else they definitely can't go out onto Utah Lake so it's a little bit of a diff the sport itself creates a little bit more of a hook but I do want to echo what Michelle said because I also share a concern with the Legacy Center and I would love to do what she's suggesting which is to figure out how to change that and turn make you know improve that where we can instead of doing either or I'd love to do both because and when I say do both let's focus on you know helping the Legacy Center where we can and can we get more data and do the study around the ice rink so that we can make a well informed decision.

So maybe do a study on Profitably for Legacy I

think that's a great idea that she had. Yeah, sorry.

Go ahead.

Oh just to Rachel's point that this is a tourist thing and again it's regional, right? Location's going to matter. I know the county is looking at Willow Park. So, I don't think that's accessible. I don't think it fits. I know James had thoughts on and also developing.

And and I'll jump in on that. I don't think any place is determined as where this would go.

Know, that's a huge part of this. That

could be

problematic, right? If we actually have to purchase land and then again. Study.

That's why you would have to study it to know.

Or to say.

What I'm saying is, and I think we, I'm with the conversation here, and I'll add my 2¢. To make money, sometimes you have to spend money. I know concept is really, really odd sometimes. For $33,000 to get a study to help us make a decision puts us way further ahead in the game than going around. Because here's the deal, no one here in Utah has three sheets of ice.

No one. No one here in Utah has what we're looking at or under a proposal. And so I think in order to make calculated decision, you have to have calculated data. When you have calculated data, then it comes back to us. We all have it. Then you can make a decision. There is no decision on where or how this would go until you study it. So, I think sometimes we can pull this way beyond what we're looking at. We're looking at, right now, a feasibility study. Do we want to do a feasibility study, or do we not want to?

That's the question. So, I'll bring that back to the five of you of do we want to proceed with $33,000 of our own and go to the county at some point and say, hey, can you pitch in? Or do we not want to? That's the question that's sitting before us Yes.

Sorry. To me, it could be even more. I I not either or, right? And I like what Rachel said, table it. I would like some preliminary information. Show me where I think our economic director can find this. I think I can do some research and find this. But I would like to know in The United States where a publicly owned and operated facility like this makes significant profit. I'd just like to know that. Show me that it can happen, and then I'll listen.

But right now, I'm not seeing that. I see these things as money pits. If it was profitable, I think the private sector would be doing that. I think the county would be doing that. And honestly, I'm Okay if other cities decide to do this, and our residents can travel there and benefit in there. Residents can take on that financial burden. So right now I'm just asking one, like what Rachel did mentioned, let's have the county are they willing to do a study for us or for whatever city? This would apply to any city interested in it right and the second thing just that preliminary information where some examples of where this actually happens.

So I have a no from you. I have that. Would be a no.

Right. It. Right. Talk to the county. And get that information. That's all I know.

Can I make a motion?

Can I make a comment? Yeah.

Make a comment first. Go ahead.

I think we're making an argument for never doing parks or anything. The roads mailer, don't do it. It's going to be a money pit, amount of people, the amount of cost, everything we do with recreation is a money pit. So, yes, I am supportive of having the data to be able to determine this. I don't know that we're going to make money on it.

It might be break even. We might have to subsidize a little bit to have this amenity for the city and the county. I want to know where at least we're going in eyes wide open, but this argument that's being displayed just means that we should not spend money on anything unless we can turn a profit. So I want the I want the data but I like the path we're heading down especially when we have a survey from residents it's not Facebook it's a survey from residents saying that this is something support that I can lean back on and say I'm following what the information is from residents so I'm I'm yes for feasibility study.

Mayor I I need to address that I know that's an inappropriate representation of what I said.

Okay.

This is not an amenity. This is not recreation. This is a sports complex for economic development. It's an entirely different thing and I specifically said, we need to start what we've finish what we started. Family Park, Miller Roads, we need to do those things. So, please don't misrepresent what I said.

I'm saying the same thing about the Legacy Center. You're not going to find a a profitable recreation center in the city.

And I said, let's make it so that it's it would be less subsidized.

Okay. Will bring it back again. So, I'm going to go one by one. Are you okay feasibility with study? Yes. Councilmember Newell. Councilmember Harrison.

I would be okay with it if we take it for two weeks. Marlon can do some research on publicly run ice rinks. And if there are examples of them being profitable, then I'm willing to vote on that in two weeks.

So let take that. Marlon, can you contact who you where you went? You can gather some information from there. Okay.

Yeah. No, Michelle's correct. I mean we've got rinks that are probably located back east and stuff like that that we can take a look at. What I'll try and do is get three or four, however many I can and show, but I'd like to also try and get some that at least three sheets and then get the pro formas for all of them. Are they profitable or are they not? What differentiates them and stuff like that? Just so that we can at least give you some information. I can also reach out to the county and have a conversation with Commissioner Beltran, see if they would be willing to help fund the feasibility study as well.

Okay.

Keeping in mind that if they do help fund it, then, they have access to that study as well. Correct.

Yeah and I'm okay with us funding it with the RDA. I believe that the county's vision is a two, is a double sheet. So, have a conversation with him but I would be happy to table this for two weeks. I think this is important conversation that we continue and I I want to give it the time we can.

Council Member Stallings.

I would not want to pursue a feasibility study that we pay for ourselves and I would like this information.

Okay. Council Member Lockhart.

I really feel like we can do all things today. Like we can we can get the study. Marlin at the same time can can get us that information in the next two weeks. We can get the study going that takes ninety days. We have multiple cities competing for this money.

They're not wasting time talking about that like, they're they're all moving faster than we are. And so I don't think that we need to stop. I also would I were able to make a motion, it would include something where hey Marlon could you could you please before you spend the 33 ask if the county is willing to if not spend the 33 we can do all these things tonight and get all the information you want and have everything we need to stay competitive and not lose out on this chance and what I heard is three yeses like I I just don't know why we would wait.

So council member Harrison, councilman from you're you're the two so I have two. Well

so what I'm saying is some of this information we don't have to pay for right like if Marlon's able to just find some basic examples.

Let's get it at same time. It's RDA money. We're not spending general fund money.

But I mean it's I mean what the RDA money is still the city's

but it's meant for this. Mayor. It's meant for this.

Just a quick clarifying question for staff. What would that money be used for if not this where does it go

that's a question for Dean

okay he's here

so our RDAs were able to charge an administrative fee to cover kind of our costs and but it it can cover studies and stuff like that. So, yeah, if it doesn't get used for this, it would.

Be used on

this Cover

our cost for administrating the RDA.

Which goes where? I mean, to salaries or your

Yeah it would offset other costs that we have in the city related to RDA accounting finance stuff like that.

It's literally money meant for this so

But it's not money I I don't wanna misrepresent. It's not money that we if we don't spend it, we or if we don't use it for this, we don't use it.

Right. We use it. But it But it would also it's it's not gonna it's a part of the budget. Right? You wouldn't allow it. You wouldn't give us that it's okay if it wasn't a part of what's budgeted.

Yeah. But So we have professional fees and things that come up sometime with the RDAs related to doing like your Studying What's the guy? The attorney guy.

Yeah. Randy Larson. Randy Larson.

Yeah. So sometimes we have costs related to RDA, and so we'll spend it for that. If it doesn't get used for that, but it can offset Marlon's salary or finance salary or things like that. So it's not like I don't wanna say that it's gonna sit there and only be used for studies or things like that. It could be used to offset our cost, but it's it's okay to use for economic development studies in the city.

So, we're not using money outside of its house. Excuse me.

I was asking the question.

Go ahead, Michelle.

Thank you. So, that the administrative fees, does it stay in that redevelopment agency? Or does

it If we don't have a use for it, it it does go to the it would go to the general fund to offset, like I said. Marlin's paid out of the general fund

instead Okay. So when it would go to the general fund, meaning that we can use that money to pay you and it would free up money for other things. Is that correct?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, there's always cost. So, if we put the money towards a study, it would not go to something else that, you know, down the line can create. Again, sitting through budget discussions there's a lot of needs in the city. That's my position.

But it currently sits in a budget line item that is meant for this purpose. Like it it can it includes this purpose.

Yeah so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It could be used for either, I guess is what I'm saying.

Exactly.