Development and Zoning Review Committee - Regular Meeting

okay and thanks [Music] again we're all set uh Mr bris okay so I guess I'm calling the meeting to order uh Planning and Zoning development review meeting March 6 2025 do I I don't have that that's fine if we could just start with a roll call of members I'm sorry say it again we could just start with a roll call of the members call okay roll call please thank you um council member Alber yes here council member galani council member brost here mayor Gitano present chair batty thank you that is a quorum for the byw Mr Vice okay I guess sorry go ahead Mr Vonage Mr Vice chair with your permission I'll go over the first item in the packet of information and then do do a couple of opening remarks and then we'll promote the applicant and let him kind of tell his story okay thank you members of the committee thank you again for being here tonight we certainly appreciate it and we know there's a bit of a time crunch at times so we do appreciate it very much as part of tonight's packet we did provide for your consideration the agenda which identifies the two development proposals that are to be considered by the committee tonight along with the agenda we provided the bylaws of this particular Committee in the event there's any questions you may have regarding procedure Etc there are two proposal on the agenda tonight the first relates to a 6 Plus acre

attractive Land Two property actually that farm the tra of land that's located at the Terminus of West Avenue unusual these days these two properties that form the track of land are not part of town center and so what we have provided being meaning the department of planning is information from our master plan for the Suburban residential area and that's where these two particular properties are located and designated along with that information we provide added a copy of the master plan conceptual land use categories map so you can kind of relate to that and then finally along with those items provided by the department of planning the petitioner whan Custom Homes has offered you a couple of different uh plan sets one with an aerial and the other more of a um a line plan to assist in tonight's discussion Mr Vice chair if there are any questions of the department Mr Newberry and I would would be glad to try to answer them at this time I don't have any questions does anybody have any questions not yet then Mr chair with your permission Mr whing can get started okay thank you Mr willan you're on mute sorry there we go I apologize uh can you hear me Travis yes sir go right ahead thank you Mr chairman Mr Mayor Joe members of the committee um this uh project um which is yet to be named uh is essentially uh my attempt at replicating

our Stone Mill development um which is uh directly to I'm going to call it the East hopefully my directions are my bearings are correct um large Lots all side entry garages uh luxury homes uh probably in the 1.5 to $25 million price range um we uh read discussed this with Joe a couple months ago when we first started talking to the owners to put the property under contract and the property um it looks like the master plan uh designated this property to have 1.75 uh Lots per acre uh which is pretty close to what ston Mill had um and is less than the adjacent Town Center project so we'd like to propose this I'm not sure what the correct zoning uh mechanism is Joe I don't know if this would be a straight zoning or PRD I would think a PRD would be more appropriate Lots in the4 to1 15,000 square foot um Range you know we would ask for as much uh flexibility as we can get to um make sure we can save more trees and come up with a better plan um but I would be happy to answer any questions for you I think the site lays really nice and will uh be a good compliment to the adjacent properties my uh civil engineer Mike fhy is also on this call and uh would be available to answer any of your questions Mr Mr Bros excuse me to interject Mr Bros you are on mute there

um and Mr batty has arrived so um okay all right yeah sorry about that traffic was bad tonight so Mr chair we've gotten a brief presentation from Mr whan the petitioner tonight we've also promoted the engineer that Mr whan is using for the project so if there are any questions we could proceed or this is Cliff Alber are these did you say are these three car rear entry garages is or side entry sir side entry side entry okay okay um and a a large driveway to go along with that I guess for extra parking too I guess absolutely um on the street would um the plans be to have parking on both sides or I I or or or is there room for that probably just one side okay that would probably make sense yeah okay that's all I got off the top of my head right right off the bat here just looking at this right mayor Gano yeah thank you um all right thanks for uh coming to us with this plan so Mike I heard you say uh this this is pretty much a clone of Stone Mill which is right next to it I'm very familiar with ston Mill so are are we doing the same kind of for the storm water to runoff on the street how's that going to be handled I know in ston Mill we went through a couple of changes um are you doing the same kind of approach or what you kind of learned after ston Mill I will let you know there was there's one little choke point at ston Mill which we

we actually didn't design ston Mill Mr Mayor we came into it after um the original design was Sterling uh it was for a different Builder so we kind of we took it over um and put our name on it but it's a much different site terms of the layout Mike vhy would you care to talk about the storm water sure so yeah the the natural low areas where we have the detention Basin common ground in the northeast corner so everything kind of uh Falls towards that corner so we would incorporate A detention Basin and a also a bior retention Basin for MSD storm water quality okay Mike would you compare and contrast that with ston Mill you're familiar with ston Mill yeah um I I meant this is as far as the lay of the ground um this is going to it's it lays better than Stone Mill as far as directing runoff um so it it'll be easier to capture and direct water to that area um and then that's where uh we'll we'll be connecting into storm sore systems along uh West Avenue okay all right thank you and this just so I I I'm placing the pro this is the property that we refer as the brown property correct okay all right that's good to know I know that when that was coming up in M during the master plan process I think the last Master Plan update uh referenced this property and how we ended up with the current um you know use of the uh average of about 1.75 homes per I believe acre so um looks like you're fitting in line exactly with what was the hope that would come out of that

uh plan there so okay is is is um the the Stone Mill is that is the street F fallstone court is that yes sir okay okay I'm familiar with those homes then just just making sure thank you yeah coming in in the middle I I think this is my opinion I think this is a great plan for that lot thank you Mr chair um do I've got a I've got a question if I can jump in sure go ahead councilman bro yeah I guess uh how I guess the big question is how does this PL plan compare to the current zoning and then what's going to be requested if it's if if it's different Mr chair I can answer that question I can let yeah go ahead Mr vich the Mr Bros the current zoning is Nu non-urban resident district and so there are two three plus acre lots just over three acres and there are two residences on the Lots one each and the proposed zoning is shown as an R1 a Halfacre resident district with a p planned residential development overlay District as part of it thank you Mr vich does that does that answer your question councilman brast well I guess I guess overall is it close to what the current zoning is so we're not looking at a 's no significant request to change it doesn't

appear well Mr BR as you know the non-urban resident District requires three acres for every unit what this anticipates is two acres two units for every acre so it is substantially more dense but it is in the Suburban residential area versus the nonurban residential area and as mayor Gitano mentioned back in 2016 when the master plan was updated Mr Brown the owners the owner of the property made a plea that I'm surrounded by commercial I'm surrounded by higher density residential can I have something more than just one unit per acre and the group agreed to accommodate 1.75 units per acre okay so we're basically two versus 1.75 1.75 versus one sir yeah if you do the calculation the gross acreage of the site was provided then there's a deduction for the public Street and so the grow net acreage of the side is what we calculate density off of Mr roast and there appears to be a couple too many Lots okay so I mean I'm I'm not opposed to it I'm just trying to uh anticipate if any residents are going to you know set up TPS or sell Ro front or anything um okay no I I think I understand it now um and I you I wish I could afford one they sound like they'll be really nice so right councilman brast I feel the same thing about same way about all these new homes okay well thank you

Mr chair I just have one other thing to mention and it has nothing to do with Mr whan's plan as um provided by Mr vhid um couple of days ago I received from the Fire Marshall at Metro West Fire Protection District an announcement that they adopted the new fire code that will go into effect I believe May May 1 2025 and in that fire marshall stated that all streets need to be now 26.1 ft in width and obviously that doesn't necessarily correspond to what we recommend in certain locations when the densities are lower but it's just an issue we'll have to work through to ensure that we create Safe Streets but not necessarily streets that are too wide and encourage speeding yeah the wider they make the streets the faster people drive on them and mayor Gano heard a lot of that this morning at coffee with the mayor about speeding so yeah one of my favorite places that I just discovered a year or two ago is um oh and is it Crystal Crystal Lake Estates or something they in between uh like Kirkwood and Town and Country and front neck sure I I never knew that existed and I'm right riding around there on my bike one night and I guess it was designed in the 30s maybe and just this little suburb with like these really narrow streets and homes pretty tightly packed together I'm like why can't we I I wish we could build more places like that be more pedestrian friendly well if you want to see what a 22t wide Street looks like the Estates at Baux e Avenue MH you once you get

into the core of that um small subdivision those are 22t streets with rolled curb there it's difficult to park I'll make no um I'll make no justification but that was consistent with what the Plan called for back when that particular subdivision was approved by the city no I'm I'm familiar with the street I was walking on it two nights ago okay thanks sorry I went to much detail no no you're fine um are there any other questions or comments from the commission I have one more Mr chair just to kind of tie up the discussion on the The Stone Mill in the streets Mr whan ston Mill as I recall are curbless so the water flows into that that little sale at the edge is that's what you're proposing here Cur no no no no that Joe that was that was a hangover from the previous design so no that was more headache than it was worth um yeah okay so again just so everyone is aware Stow Mill is has no curves it's just the street pavement surface itself these will have curves that help direct W water to air curb inlets and into the basins that Mr vhy mentioned thank you Joe can I ask than you oh I apologize yeah go ahead Mr Wayan just for conversation's sake uh and I I didn't forgive me I I would never want to bring a plan that had more Lots than was uh permissible um so I just I did not know that we deducted the area for the street from the gross uh are from the that we that we were dealing with a net area for lot

count calculation um is that something that and forgive me I just don't really know how how this works with the city is that something that the board can consider this this density um if I lost two lots honestly I I couldn't do this subdivision it's not a it's a more expensive piece of property than uh than Ashley Grove and um it's more expensive than ston Mill too and doesn't have the the lot yield um so that something I could request Joe or how does that yes there's a couple things that the department can investigate for the benefit of the Z development and Zoning Review Committee as well as the Planning and Zoning commission one is private streets if that would be an option in some instances private streets are not a deduct from the gross acreage of the site and then with the overlay District there's a potential that obviously the um the Planning and Zoning commission can recommend and city council can grant pretty much a wavered to any of the requirements in our codes so um we'll investigate that for you I know it's an issue and we won't let that issue just kind of hang out there for you thank you I appreciate that thank you very much Joe Mike we we did deduct the RightWay from the calculations we did yes okay so it's in the calculations that are on the on the site plan uh so we've accounted for it um in in the calculations and with the acreage and the deduction in the RightWay with our layout uh we're at 10.99 acres is the density calculation okay well Mr fide I'm not trying to

be um anything other than just I have on sheet C1 gross area the side at 5.99 Acres RightWay vacation at 0.29 and then you had the net area at 6.28 so I think you did an addition instead of a subtraction no I actually it's what's what's missing off the gross area is there's a private rideway of West Avenue that's to be vacated that did not show up in the gross area but it does show up in the density calculations well then I can complicate things even more because obviously if these are public streets we do deduct the right away out of the gross acreage of the site but like I say we'll take okay we'll investigate a couple of options while you okay appreciate it any other questions does anybody have any concerns or criticisms or things you think we need to look at or work on Travis do you have the renderings they sent over handy would you like to see the renderings of the home sure if we have them Mike do you have any idea what your uh pricing will be or where you're starting at I think the Lots Mr Mayor would be um

around 300,000 fully developed uh which would probably start me off at like a million5 for a house like that um a house like that's probably $2.5 million doar um easy my last two that I sold on Center Avenue were in the million3 price range so I think this will easily be a million5 to two and a half million pretty similar to what we have out in West Eden um that that large lot subdivision we did off of Manchester and Melrose that's kind of where most of those houses are coming in okay thank you thank you I'm amazed there's that many people with that kind of money to spend on a house but me too me too but they keep coming they keep calling West Eden sold out uh I have one lot left um but it came back on the market it sold out with in less than a year that's that's compared to some of these other subdivisions I've seen out here that were put in when I first got my house and still have lot lots available that's pretty impressive well we certainly appreciate your help and we appreciate yall uh hearing us out tonight and Joe I guess we could just um let me know what I need to do to start exploring uh some of those considerations you know how these I I mean you've you've G through this with the the neighboring property how sensitive you know you know one or two lots what it can do to the project and um if you feel like this is something we could we could get over that hump I'd really appreciate it if

not like you said the sooner I know the better um because the money started we we wind up investing a whole lot of money uh right out the gate and and the the brown family's pretty proud of this and uh in terms of they're asking price for it um but we we think we can make it work so we appreciate any help or any direction we could get from you guys we'll certainly take a look and get back with the development and Zoning Review Committee members as well as you thank you thank you very much have a good evening thank you Mr Wayan um with that is there a motion to adjourn Mr CH we have one more tonight oh okay my bad yeah we have a double decker bus tonight for you okay um so all right so Mr Newberry will remove Mr whan and Mr vhy and we'll promote M and Mr chair with your permission I'll do a brief introduction and we'll be ready to go go right ahead again thank you members of the development and Zoning Review Committee the other item on tonight's agenda is attractive land I think we're all familiar with it was formerly owned by the new Community Church and intended to be additional parking for their main facility which was their place of worship and then a recreational area they intended to have a concession stand a volleyball courts walking trails Etc ultimately as you all know from our recent activi a new Community Church given its congregation size is increasing rapidly is moving to the city of Chesterfield and a new owner of this place of worship has purchased the

property they also purchased not only the place of worship facility on the north side of Manchester Road but they also purchased the four plus acres that's identified by Mr newberry's highlights along with the information that we typically provide from the Town Center the app petitioner has provided a scheme that shows what they would like to do with the property and that is multiple family development I would just note that this particular property is designated workplace District which is a true commercial District unlike the downtown district this does not the workplace District does not allow residential units of any kind so this would require a regulating plan change along with the reson so if there are any questions of the department otherwise I believe Mr Newberry has promoted our petitioner and we can turn to him thank you all right thank you Mr vich um uh let's he Mr munir um if you'd like to make your presentation you are muted can you guys hear me now yes we can okay okay so uh thank you very much for the opportunity and I appreciate you guys giving us the the stage to actually explain what we're trying to do here uh so our community acquired uh this land along with the purchase of a new Community Church and one of our community members is interested is taking this land from us and and develop it into uh a multi-unit uh setup up as as we've kind of shown here now this is it's a very high concept we haven't

decided on how many units and all that we are all open to hearing from your feedback that whether this is even palatable approach for us to even go further any any further with our development but the idea here is that that Community member is going to buy this land from us and then he will eventually develop this into a multi-unit as thenal with that said I think we started off with just a basic drawing of uh what a multi-unit complex would look like here we we acquired U Services from rangala Architects and uh they proposed to us that we could we could easily do uh four Comp four buildings um with um equating 152 units total 38 units a piece and um and then including a clubhous house a pool and an ample parking there um I have discussed this with the the the planning uh the planning committee and and their suggestion was that I should bring it up to this forum and try to see what their feedback is before I could go back to my community members and tell them that whether it's viable or not and we can either have the individual who's interested in getting this landform us pursu further with it all right thank you for that Mr munir um Miss mayor Gitano yeah hi thank you so much for coming to present this plan um now uh we did have a proposal on the land adjacent to it several years ago that seems to have some similarities it was a multifam multiple units and that area just as in this land uh that's being discussed tonight the land use plant called for workplace

designation um so the community at the time over there was very strongly against the proposal that was made several years ago and and so this this similarly is right next to it um you know the land use plan does call for workplace which along Manchester Road we have very very limited of residential that fronts Manchester if anything it's more down towards 109 where there is if any uh but you're kind of in the heart right there of what we have businesses there's there's a there's a bar there Larry's Tavern across the road um you know there's the plan was designated for a workplace uh in that area and so you know that I think would be a major ch challenge for this proposal to hit there I mean the other part of it is it extremely highly dense I mean to put 152 multiple uh multifam units in four acres uh in the 10 years I've been on this Council I've never seen something inconsistent with the plan land use plan like that uh the the other challenge is that we don't have four-story buildings on Manchester Road um the closest might be down by 100 where we have the um there's a medical building there next to a gas station but there's nothing in that area that has that kind of height so that would certainly not fit in uh with the area there um you know the the lack of green space I think that is something that will come up there's very little of it uh but the traffic impacts Our Town Center Traffic study was

designed to account for the land use plan being fully built out so this this would not be consistent with that as well with what we've designed our roads for uh pointing to that so it's it's a significant ask to to deviate from the land use plan to go to something extremely more dense versus if you're going for something that was less dense you know I think uh less dense less intrusive would be fine and in fact that's what happened in the previous case you know they uh they wanted to put you know pretty much a recreational area there so very little objection to doing something like that so I I hate to see say it but this plan I mean the way I see it is is pretty much Dead on Arrival because it just doesn't fit there right I mean I think that that would the the four-story structures of high Den City like that would just not work um in that area you have to keep in mind the boundary behind it is a residential area there's there's uh homes behind it so to have structures of such a great height next to it uh I think would result in a lot of uh opposition from the community there so uh I think that a plan like this I would strongly encourage you I've said this other times in this meeting you have to get to to really understand and know Wildwood uh that I don't think would have the look and feel of Wildwood uh I see this more as you know something that you could take down to the city and build but but not in the Wildwood area okay so let me clarify something um

we proposed this without knowing of any background U and this was just done to get get an understanding whether we could squeeze the max out of it now that is all open to discussion on our side um if if the density is high and the four story is not applicable all those things are are really open for discussion and we are uh we are willing to go back to the drawing board but I guess I am I'm walking in into a situation where I don't know the whole background that what is what could be allowed with not but it's a very good feedback that you gave me to take back to discuss it with the community and tell them that you know with this kind of density and lack of green space and traffic congestion um you know asking for 152 units would be an Overkill here so a proposal Which is less dense uh we can we can certainly look into that but my concern was that would they would sorry no I I would stick with I would try first seeing what the land use plan calls for which is intended for office retail uh certain type of uses like that uh just because that's what our plan calls for we had a town center plan that uh committee that met from December 2018 to December 2020 made up of residents and so they spent a lot of time to come up with the land use plan so if we're going at ever considered deviating from the plan it has to be done with something that's going to get significant support from the community because otherwise uh I I would see uh a lot of opposition to that so I would strongly encourage it and I think just looking at the way this plan is I think you need to look around and kind of get a feel for what you kind of see in the Wildwood area to come up with

something I've said this to other presenters you're not the first I've ever said that too we've had folks present near there but you just you just saw tonight uh earlier we have a proposal for uh you know a few homes that's about 056 miles from this location uh so think about you know what is a good fit that's going to work with the community that's existing there thank you mayor good oh I was just gonna say um my personal opinion is as a city we've given up so much commercial land over the last few years to residential development I know commercial is not moving very quickly but I'm I'm hesitant to give up too much more commercial land especially right along Manchester Road um so I I'd me personally I would want to see some I would want to see something like the mayor said office or retail okay so even if the because the the concern I have with this um um and and by the way we have it put it back on the market right now so it's it's for sale again our community will not be doing anything with it so it's probably be just the land there uh they would they have no interest of building any anything there um the only reason I brought this proposal up here there's a Community member who was willing to take it on but in the condition that if he could get some sense that they can build a a residential multi-unit there um and that's the reason I was proposing that we can take back the density and and and

look into those options if there's anything uh from that line but uh I hear your comments I can certainly take those back and explain it to the community that that's where it stands um and that's all I have to say uh Sor there somebody with a question yeah councilman brost yes I I guess always trying to find a solution for something that works for everybody um I mean I understand the office retail I mean I I think we're talking that would be great for the city I I totally support that that but is there I mean like uh Mr Vonage do you have a suggestion as to any type of a combination of perhaps residences along with a retail type presence that might be a middle ground that would work for this property or do you feel it should just stay office retail you know which I think we'd all like it but we all acknowledge we're struggling there um in part because we need more roofs downtown but I I guess I'll see if Mr Vonage has any type of a of a of a thought that might be a light at the end of the tunnel well with the chair's permission thank you go ahead Mr ven yeah thank you Mr Bros there is a solution it's another land use District in our town center it's called the neighborhood General and the neighborhood General can accommodate both residential and Commercial uses

within the same building or trative land it doesn't necessarily have to be that that catchy term of live work units they can be broken apart but all in all development can have both uses it does require a regulating plan change from work workplace District the neighborhood General District but it would allow the combination of the two uses and if done appropriately might find success I don't know it would it's certainly an option I and I apologize I don't recall the petitioner's name is that an Avenue that you'd like to pursue or do you feel that's not feasible no I can certainly take anything back that's uh uh that's open for discussion on our side and if if he could get into a situation where it could be a combination of both definitely I could take it back because the individual who's trying to buy it from us his mind is more towards uh residential um multi-unit but having a combination of what Mr Woodman just explained could also be a a viable solution at this stage we do not have anything that defined other than just asking that we we will be able to get an exception on this or not before we go any further on it whether it comes out in the form of a combination of retail and residential I think that's a very good idea to just for me to take it back uh I I'm I'm certain that they will entertain something like that which will may work better for us and prob for the city as well other than this land would sit out here where we wouldn't have any use for it and so that's that's what we're trying to do also is to just to give it to our community member who could develop it and perhaps uh you know how the overall good in the area mayor Gano yeah I I'll share uh

maybe just some thought that maybe comes to mind and again I'm uh only speculating that this point I think that you would want to look at having that commercial along Manchester Road as as a mayor as an official in this city the one thing that we don't want to create a problem is is that we allow Solutions where they can end up becoming issues for the city later on and having residential right up on that road there without any kind of buffer or uh you know Green Space in between the road I I could see uh issues where later on the city has to handle them and their complaints because we get complaints we've learned from them you know where people if you're building right up on a road like that you know if there's traffic if there's uh cars driving fast uh they there's loud noises uh you know the people can complain that it's too loud on the road but they also bought on the road uh so we're trying to make sure we don't uh create situations like that one area that comes to mind that I think you know would maybe help paint a pictures if you're familiar with the corner of Clayton Road and Mason Road right there there's a little shopping center that is right there but there's it's a single story but they're different shops along there that front the road and then uh there is some residential behind it so that it is it is behind the businesses so that you know is if if you're kind of looking at a mixed use like that I think that kind of Blends in with the kind of Manchester Road feeling that we we have over there I mean that's why I want to make sure it's clear that yeah you know seeing a four-story building right on Manchester

would stand out dramatically uh and I don't think that would fit in well I mean we value very much the architecture and the character of the area so you have to find something that fits in so if you're familiar looking at those that property today there's some uh single story structures and then you go into even some more historic structures just a little further down when you get to otherton road so so you kind of see get a feel for what is along Manchester Road so if we truly you know we truly value having that road preserving that character along the road uh we have to have something like that so that might be an idea of something to look at but again I can only speculate I don't know uh until we see something to be able to provide feedback but uh certainly I I would certainly take what you have and just kind of you know start over um just because that that is uh bit too intensive there not bit it is so one question there so does does like would would that still have to be classified as neighborhood General and Mr W if you could please correct me on my classification I may be a little off uh the one that Mr Mayor just elaborated on Yes actually the neighborhood General can accomodate a pretty large footprint of or a commercial project as well as a relatively high density within again confines of the Town Center plan for residential okay and and one other question I had for you that the Adent land to new Community Church that was also granted the same kind of privilege to build their multiunit because I saw in their marketing material they had buildings and I can't remember this the uh the actual density there it was quite a few units and and perhaps in their plans they were in the marketing

material that they sent was it has about three levels I can't remember if was four or three but I think it was three um so so they never built on it so so I guess like they were somehow allowed that in the past which never went anywhere um just curious that how would that equate to this situation and I apolog apologize I'm not 100% sure where the property is as you described it but what I will tell you is it is please go ah no please if you could provide a little more yeah so just yeah it's the 11 acre of land right next to New Community Church yes I understand that was done by Mary K Corsair and it ended up being Condominiums at a fairly high density now the property itself is almost 12 acres and at the time it fit the description that was set fourth in the Town Center plan meaning the frontage of the property was workplace and then the let's say northern half of it was a neighborhood General as I recall so they actually proposed a project that was consistent with the land use categories there's been questions about the density since we that for the most part was approved by city council but as you know it never developed because of just concerns about the price of land so okay yeah so I think U that's very good information I I really appreciate you as spending time with me today so I am just let me just quickly recap so I've got it right and I can just explain back to my community members that with the current proposal it's way too dense and having a four-story building does not equates with with what the city vision is um it

also create problem with the lack of Green Space it also potentially creates traffic issues and overall feel of Manchester Road to have that kind of residential density um is not a viable option um and uh apologize there's amember alerts going on on the phone um so um so I would explain that to the community that we would may have to go back on the drawing board and try to produce something which which perhaps the May mayor was referring to in terms of having commercial in the front and some residental unit in the back as a proposal uh if if that would be the next step for us to try to gain to approval cor yeah I I think you've got a pretty good idea um just speaking for me personally I've got the property pulled up on Google Earth and if you were to come up with something where the front half was workplace um the back half you could maybe do um town homes or Villas um I think that would fit in pretty because behind the behind there you have Town Homes um so it's looks like one and two unit buildings generally and then you've got um I kind of go call them zero lot homes directly to the West there um on oh what's on Grover Grover Crossing and if residential with a density similar to that and commercial on the front would probably be a easier sell mayor you're nden I or you're muted yeah I think I would I would then Echo just you know just so

that you're not going back to the drawing board again try to get a look and feel for what is what compliments what is around there so that this way you you're uh you're proposing something that fits in well it doesn't doesn't uh you know kind of go in opposition with the character of the area so obviously look at like what's behind there look at those types of homes that are there um and see what's along Manchester to get some ideas okay that's that's very good feedback I I'll definitely take that back and I think um hearing all this helps me prare a really good picture back to my team and just let them know that you know this is where we stand on this all right thank you very much appreciate your interest in the city thank you appreciate appre thank you very much with all right with that um is there a motion to adjourn yeah motion all right motion by the mayor um second I'll second all right by councilman bro all those in favor say I I I any opposed any abstain all right we're J thank you thanks everybody for