City Council - Regular Meeting

Let me call the meeting to order. Uh this is a regularly scheduled called and convened uh city career council meeting. Um want to uh thank Councilman Arowwood for leading our last meeting in my absence and um look forward to getting back in the saddle here again. So, um, with that, uh, we will begin our meeting, uh, with an invocation and a pledge of allegiance led by Councilman Paul Lamb. If you'd like to join us, please stand. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Let us pray. Dear Lord, as we gather to address important matters and we seek your guidance and wisdom. Help us listen with open minds, understand diverse perspectives, and make decisions that best serve our citizens. Guide our council to act with integrity, ensuring our words and actions reflect your grace. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen.

Miss Duncan, anybody to appear in public forum this evening? No, sir. With that, council, let's uh move to the minutes of the meeting. They are contained in your packet. These are the minutes from February 24th, 2026. I'll entertain a motion to receive. So moved. Second. And a second. Any items of note for the clerk hearing? None. Miss Duncan. Mr. Erwood? Yes. Mr. Booker? Yes. Mr. Lander? Yes. Mr. Bettis? Yes. Mr. Lamb? Yes. Mayor Danner? Yes. With that, then let's move to the administrator's report. Mr. Maryman,

Mr. Mayor, welcome back, and I'm glad to see you're healing. Uh, you're as spry as a uh as they come, I think. At least I haven't seen you walking around yet, so we'll see. But welcome back, Mr. Airwood did a great job in your absence. Uh, reminder, statement of economic interest forms are due March 30th at noon. Um, Mr. Lamb and Mr. Lander, I know this may be your first year doing those, so if you have any questions, reach out to me or to Tammy, but they're fairly straightforward. Um, the cultural arts division. I want to congratulate the cultural arts division, Robin and her team. They won gold for the Dia de los Muertos Festival in two categories for the Southeast Festivals and Events Association 2026 Kaleidoscope Awards. So, these are very prestigious awards that recognize some of the best festivals and events across the Southeast. So, if you see Robin and her staff, congratulate them. They always do a great job. And then don't forget to mark your calendars for Saturday the 21st for the first of four the story of Greer events. This Greer 150 series will be hosted by local historian and Greer Heritage Museum director David Low Grove at the historic Greer Depot and will detail the history of our community's earliest days. This is all part of our Cesco Centennial celebration that begins this month in earnest. Um, and the last thing I want to touch base with y'all on are two particular items in my administrator's report. One is an impact fee report um that is due according to uh the ordinance um annually and all I'd like to do is run through um just the basic collection data and then um I'll open this up to any questions that you may have. But uh one of the requirements is to uh make recommendations for changes to the impact fee ordinance. At this time, staff does not um recommend any changes to the impact fee ordinance. However, I will say that um there are a number of

uh of initiatives at the state level um that could um uh kind of color our need for uh the discussion for a transportation impact fee. Um if you'll recall when we went through that process a couple years ago and involves a study that's outlined by state code um once that is complete there is a um mathematically derived um uh fee that that can be levi levied and of course in the categories I'll go over um that we're at the maximum of those fees but if we did a transportation impact fee it would be the exact same process um but with looking at the states road devest discussions uh looking at how the state is addressing the potential for a 1-centent sales tax option uh for municipalities in counties that do not have a 1-centent sales tax. Um we'll wait and see how all of that plays out, but uh as of now, the impact fee ordinance is satisfactory uh to staff's uh and in staff's interpretation. And of course, we'll take any insight from council. And also by way of reminder, those FE funds that are collected have to be um allocated and spent um or at least um uh put towards a project within 3 years of collection. By way of reminder, we have four different categories for those fees. We have a fire fee, a public safety fee, a parks and wreck fee, and a police fee. And again, when when this council levied those in October of 2024, um those were the four that were recommended u by our consultant. Uh we are looking at currently a yeartodate collection um of about $300,000. As a matter of fact, 300,870 to be exact fiscal year.

This this current fiscal year. Yes, sir. Um, we are at 100 the 2020 in 2024 when we levied those fees. So that would be October, November, December, we collected $143,86820. And then through let's see, I I stand corrected. That is not for the fiscal year. It's a calendar year. That was a calendar year. Uh the the the calendar year 2025 saw collections of $643,86.90 in all categories with a total of for 24 and 25 $786,95510. So with the 300 we've collected thus far this year, we are over a million in impact fee collections. We are we have not budgeted those um for any projects this time. However, as as staff goes through um our capital needs in the budget this year as we prepare a budget for this council, um that will be a topic of discussion on how we use um or recommend the use of any of those.

So, we haven't budgeted the 300. Well, we have done the other. We have not budgeted those either. No, sir. They are just sitting and they are being collected. So, that's four mills. However, we need to look at it. Yes, sir. Yeah. Yes, sir. But the just by way of reminder, the mills are operating annually and these would be onetime capital improvement. I understand that. Yes,

you understand that. But um is there any questions about the impact fees so far? The the the the Reader Digest version of what I'm trying to get across is we've been collecting since October of 2024. Collections are fairly strong. Last year wasn't um fantastic. However, we're starting the year pretty well and those funds have not been allocated in any way, but they need to we need to start looking at how we do that specifically through a formal capital improvements plan. So, that is a rolling three years. Is that how that works in terms of Yes. how the funds are allocated? So, it is continuously rolling based on the three years it is. And Ashley, if I'm not mistaken, every seven years we have to look at it or every five. Do you recall off top of your head? I believe five

I think. Okay, it's 5 years. We have to go back and um and recalculate on the you you identified the fire, public safety, recreation, what was the other one? Police. Police. Um those can be those dollars can be spent um where it has a positive effect throughout the city or or say for instance on recreation is is that defined where you spend that money by geography or is it

No sir it is not that I think I know where you're going with that. It's not predicated on where you've collected the money. So if you for instance we there was a big subdivision in district one and those those impact fees were collected. They don't have to remain in district one if that was your question. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Now and I don't know I don't think I don't know if it get got any legs under or not but I know Greenville County they've had a brief discussion on impact fees. um if they were to so choose to implement those could that since we're a different entity that that wouldn't affect us. Correct.

Uh at this time no sir those those impact fees would apply to properties uh businesses or or residential units that were developed in unincorporated Greenville County. So no sir there that there would not be an additional fee a county fee on top of the city fee. Now, there has been some question at the state level. Um, and I think there may have been some challenge and if I'm not mistaken, it might have been Chester County where the county was hoping to put on an impact fee on top of the city, but that didn't go anywhere. So, I think that's just another piece of legislation we're going to continue to watch.

Okay. So the impact fees that are for instance connect I mean we collect impact fees for the police because of the added strain of development on the police but we don't have we don't spend that money with the police station. Oh we will. Yes sir. We we will spend the the fees collected under the police umbrella have to be used for that. Yes sir. Okay. So, and it'll be used they have to be used for capital project um capitals uh capital expenditures uh vehicles those kind operating costs those kind of things are not eligible for impact fees.

Okay, others questions in in that regard.

Well, Mr. Mr. Mayor, if I may move on and please at any time stop me if you've got a question about the impact fees. I do want to give one more update that's specific to our capital projects and I want to I want to try and keep it um obviously um for Greer initiative related. However, there's a couple other cool things that we're doing I just want to give you some updates on as well. Um the Gross Meadow Fire Department project uh the procurement and project team um have issued their solicitation for architectural services that went out on the 8th. So this following uh this past Sunday with a submittal deadline of the 26th of March, we look to shortlist um those architecture firms the week of April 6th with evaluation and final scoring April 20th. Um intend to award the week of April 27th with a council presentation May the 12th. Uh the sports event center, if you've been down Highway 14, you see that we are going strong out there. pre-cast wall erection is at 100% complete. Uh structural steel installation is ongoing. The roof deck for the auxiliary gym and tenant space is 100% complete with staff anticipating uh presenting the on-site utility easements to council on March 24th and April 14th. So, you will have a little more information about some of the utility requests um that we'll be bringing to y'all uh at the end of this month and at your April meeting. Uh the public safety training facility. Uh the range ventilation startup is scheduled for March 9th. So we started that Monday. Ceiling, wall, and floor tile installation is ongoing. Construction on the wood roof for the burn tower is scheduled for March 2nd to the 16th. So that is currently underway. The front parking lot uh final paving will begin in about a month uh with the project on track for an April 21st, 2026 completion. And as you know, the downtown parking garage is currently on

hold as we continue to look at some economic development opportunities um in in and around our downtown. Uh and just these are not for Greer related, but I do want to give you um a quick update on two trail projects. Um the South Tiger River Trail has been buffeted by uh some challenges to uh construction progress due to weather. However, storm drain installation and grading was completed on the 24th of February. Stoning prep was completed on February 27th. Concrete pores will be happening, weather permitting, now uh over the next uh over the first couple weeks of March uh with new substantial completion date June 13th. So, we hope on June 13th to be open in the South Pig River Trail. And as for the Wards Creek Trail, the project is currently in site development plan with city staff. Um, our plans have been submitted to SE DOT for full review. If you'll recall, we are getting transportation enhancement program money from SE DOT. So, they need to um, uh, bless the plan, so to speak. And, um, uh, actually this week, well, if I'm not, excuse me, tomorrow, the 11th, um, we will be attending a condemnation hearing uh, to just finalize uh, some of the final pieces of project. Um, I know that was a lot and that's not all. We've actually got currently have 15 capital projects going, but these are kind of your big ones out front. Any questions?

No, I would just like to state here at council and you and I talked about this. I know there are people on council that aren't in favor of signage, um, good signage at the event center, but I'll just state here. I think we're missing a huge opportunity if we don't budget for a a sign that celebrates what we're putting out there and makes it obvious to people that it is something of beauty and and that people can take advantage of. I just don't want to miss that boat. I I agree with that and um I I think that it goes I recommended that when we were doing a plan review of the the layout and it just wasn't something that that just I formulated in my head. It it actually comes from something that was done at one time where uh the the the Greer the old Greer citizen when there would be a Legion game, they would put a sandwich board outside their office and say, "Legion game tonight. Have the time." That kind of thing. And that that's that that started that that's what got my my the juices flowing or the brain turning, whatever you want to say. But um it it it that that's similar. But one of the things that we had then that we don't have now is a newspaper, you know, and and in the newspaper, it would list all these activities from it's time to it's time to sign up for uh recreation programs or Greer plays tonight or Riverside baseball is on tonight that that all that kind of stuff. uh because we value

recreation. I don't think we just value the recreation that directly comes from our the city proper. I think the entire city, all the recreation that goes on. And so that's a means that's a that's a a method to get that message out there. there may be something going on that um at at at the new facility that somebody they don't have folks that are involved but they say yeah I'd like to go out there tonight and watch that. You know there are people who still go to let's just take high school for an example go to the high school basketball games or go to the high school football or baseball whatever. Well, we're we're going to be hosting some tournaments, some pretty major tournaments, big f a lot of folks coming through and um I just think it we we are missing an opportunity um to not to if if we don't do that, we're just missing this opportunity to let people know, hey, this is going on. It's not just going on here. It's all across our city. we got all these good things going on in our city and I I I think it's it be a big benefit. Um and yeah, there'll be a increase in cost with a digital sign, but when you compare it to the p the percentage increase in the cost, I mean, it barely makes a blip on the radar screen. I I think

and we've got a first class sign maker in this city. Yeah, I think that it's something that um because it but it is it would be a change order that it I think it would be prudent that we talk about it a seven and see where it lands. Well, there's certainly a lot of traffic going to pass through by that every day. Yeah.

So, if I am always concerned about spending, but so even if we couldn't do it, we need a big message board. I don't whether we can afford it now or not, but and it's got to be readable for the road or it's not worth the money to buy it. I mean, you know, and that also Ashley can probably tell us that probably violates our UDO. We But we can change that.

Hey, we can get the DOT to uh put us in one of those big message boards that goes all the way across the interstate. Everybody's got the message then. But uh No, I I think it's uh I I think it's a matter that's worth the attention of of council whether we do it or not. I think council needs to talk about it and the pros and cons and then go from there. We currently have a line item for some kind of signage, right?

Yes, sir. Actually, um that we have a line item in the GMP for signage. It includes the monument signage, whatever form that was going to take or that will take um at the roadside, but that includes entire signage package for everything on site and within the facility. Okay. It'd be an increase to that line item. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we've got we've got some impact funds that go to recreation. Well, that that cuts off one of those meals you want to get rid of. So, we'll lower it three then and get a sign.

All right. I council that in in in that regard that if this is if this is something the council wants to pursue, there's obviously some questions that that need to be answered before we get into to a discussion.

Yeah. in regards to, you know, what what this would entail and how much how much more. I mean, to your point in and the scope of the entire project, it isn't that much, but nevertheless, I think it's it it's going to be something that we're going to want to gather some information about. We're going to want to know about the sign ordinance and all those sorts of things. Uh what concerns me a little bit is as fast as we are moving at this point in time, uh that's a discussion that needs to be had sooner rather than later. So, if this is something that uh this this council wants to do, I would um suggest that if somebody wants to and and and certainly not tonight, we can't do it, but uh put this as a matter of discussion for adding, you know, adding or or discussion about the signage um so we can start gathering the information that we're going to need.

Yeah, I think it will be prudent that we put it on for our next meeting. That's as quick as we can all gather. And that that gives staff a couple weeks to get some basic information and then we'll know at that point. I agree. I I will I don't know how quickly we can gather the information, but I think we can gather the information if if that's if that's where the council wants to go on this.

Mr. Mayor, I feel confident that we can get enough to get y'all started both with any regulatory roadblocks that might exist under our current UDO, uh, plus any construction and cost related ballpark numbers that we could work out so we can get us we can get the conversation started. If they um I'm I'm assuming that the monument sign that's going to go that was planned to go on that side, it will be lit. So, there's power either already roughed in or it's

Yes, sir. You know, the the the sign design, the monument signage has not begun in earnest. There is some placeholder type designs that have been done. Um, and just by way of and we can talk about this next week, but just by way of of um a little bit of background as we looked at a couple things, the GMP in particular, the cost of the signage, the the signs proximity to 14 um plus the idea in theory, and this is for y'all to debate, um, but we were kind of thinking that that is the this iconic gateway marker almost as we get into Greer, um, past the the industrial area that it was an opportunity just as y'all have articulated. It's an opportunity to put something out there iconic. So, we we're in agreement with that. The question really boiled down to uh digital signage or non-digital signage and then it was predicated on cost. I say all that to say that's kind of how we got to where we are with the number of the GMP. Um this is council's prerogative and I would encourage y'all to have a a debate about this. We will make sure that we have information for you next week or at the next council meeting. I don't know if this makes a difference from a funding perspective. I'm I'm curious if accommodations tag marketing dollars could be allocated for something like that. Just out of curiosity,

I can verify that the answer to that will be yes or nay. I can that that that will be part of the discussion. Yes, sir. All right, we'll move move forward then. Anything else in your report? No, Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry. That does conclude my report. Okay. I do have one question. Um, and I saw this. I was driving through Greenville. Went to a record store, Riley, and um, they still do that, huh? Yeah, they do actually. Huge business. But, um, I was going through a neighborhood, the street obviously had become a cutthrough, and they put speed humps. But these were made um, they didn't look temporary. They were but they were made from heavyduty plastic.

Mhm. Is Is that what we're going to put in? Is that what we I there I believe the product is not plastic, but I do believe it's a rubberized product that's going to go in there that uh is is designed to be permanentish. I I like the idea. I mean, it was the same height, width, all or and look like it was holding up. Yes, sir.

Yeah. There's there's several sources of those things and we've looked at them I know a time or two. Um from an engineering standpoint, uh most of them come with the emergency vehicle slots in them as well too. Some of them are solid all the way across. Some of them particularly in neighborhoods and other places have got the got the slots for the emergency vehicles. So, um that's something we can take a look at as well too. Um thank you, Mr. Maryman, before we go on in in in relation to um to the the sports and events center and some of the other projects that are going on, a quick shout out to our communications team. Those folks have done a yman's job of documenting uh what is going on with all of these projects and the um the reports or whatever we want to call it that we're doing with some of our contractors and others have just been fascinating to hear from those folks how proud they are to be working on these projects and how they're coming along and um you know being able to see them built those walls up and and how fast that took place and uh some of the other things. It it it it is entertaining. It is informational. It is um it is a way for us to show not only what what we're doing but those uh vendors and contractors and the people that uh that we interview uh is is is just been uh I think one of the best things that we've done through the course of these projects. Just u really uh really well done as well too. We we were probably wearing the drones out. We got so much drone footage, but um when you're tilting those big walls up, I guess you

do have to get, you know, 100 feet in the air. So, shout out to our communications team. Thank you for all the all that that y'all are doing. Uh with that, then we'll move to old business. We have no old business before us this evening, and we only have one item um or two items of of new business. The first uh item of new business this evening is the first reading of ordinance number 6-2026. This is an ordinance to change the zoning classification certain property owned by Kimberly Chaplain Edens also known as Kimberly Sims located at 116 and 118 Pleasant Drive and Pleasant Drive from suburban neighborhood to traditional neighborhood. Miss Cotti joins us this evening for that discussion. The floor is yours ma'am. Thank you, mayor and councel. Um, so as the mayor indicated, this is a reasonzoning request. Um, these are three parcels totaling a little over 25 acres. Um, located at the intersection of Pleasant Drive and South Bunkham Road. Um, it is currently zoned suburban neighborhood and they are requesting traditional neighborhood. Um, this is an aerial map of the property. Again, all three properties are highlighted. Um this is a current zoning map. Um again it is currently zoned suburban neighborhood. The similar color that you see um across the street and to the north is also suburban neighborhood. Um the bright blue that you see is manufacturing and logistics. Uh the future land use uh map calls for mixed employment. Although this is kind of right on the border between traditional neighborhood and mixed employment. And then existing conditions on the ground. Um I'm sure many of you know this property. It was a former pan grove. It did get fairly um impacted by Helen a couple years ago. Um so this is

a little more up-to-date picture than the aerial. Um, in terms of staff analysis and recommendation, um, given the surrounding residential uses, um, as well as the surrounding warehouse uses, um, and the comprehensive plan, again, while it calls for mixed employment, it is adjacent to traditional neighborhood. Um, staff does feel that traditional neighborhood is a good transition between the more intense use of industrial and then the suburban neighborhood. Um, so staff does recommend approval. Planning Commission held a public hearing and they also recommended approval 50. Um I am happy to answer any questions. We do have a representative here as well that can answer questions

for the purpose of discussion. Um do I hear a motion to receive? So move and a second. Second. Uh floor is open for discussion. By by show of hand, is the owner of the property or representative of the owner of the property with us this evening? Thank you. Are you available for questions if they arise? Thank you. Floor's open. Ashley, explain something to me. Um, you you feel like traditional neighborhood is a um a segue going into suburban neighborhood, right? That's what you staff said.

Yeah. So, it's a a transitional zoning. So, between lower density and larger lots. And this is a little bit denser, although the proposed density, as you'll see, I think you were handed, um, is actually pretty low. It's a suburban neighborhood density. Um, but does allow for smaller lot sizes. Um, and again, we look at the zoning, not necessarily the proposed project, but the whole gamut of things that could go there. So I guess the the whole gamut would include let's say somebody not this development but another wanted to put a community store in there. Is that what is that part of the thinking?

Um I mean staff would have also recommended approval if they were requesting a a resoning for something along the lines of commercial. Um again we would have felt that that was a good transition. trying to because people will ask me questions. What's the you know h what was your thinking from and you said it was higher density but but of course by the plan it could be. Yes. Could be. Yes. But is that the only is that the reason that that y'all recommended that that you felt like the ability for them to build more was a better transition or

Sure. I mean, so there are a couple different zoning districts that could be appropriate here. So our decision is is what they're requesting appropriate. So we take a look at what all that district allows, what could be the max buildout, um generally what that type of product or lot size would be. Um and the number one thing that we take a look at is the future land use map in our comprehensive plan. Um, we also look at existing zoning and the surrounding uses. Then we also look at what's actually on the ground versus zoning because we know that doesn't always match up. So, I mean, in this case, being sandwiched between warehousing and then suburban neighborhood type development, um, being located along a major corridor of South Bunkham, um, staff did feel that the higher density residential was a little bit more appropriate than its current zoning of suburban neighborhood, but again, we would have probably recommended approval for say a commercial corridor or commercial general, but that that wasn't the request

the um so I was looking through the the total acreage is 26.78 acres and suburban allows for four units per acre but a minimum lot size of 10,000 square ft are these lots that are in the center under the 10,000 is that why we're requesting it or

so I believe they're requesting it for lot size so traditional neighbor and you can ask the applicant, but um based on the site plan that I've seen, the density is well under the suburban neighborhood um density. So, it it appears that it's based on lot size. So, traditional neighborhood does allow for smaller lot sizes and smaller side and rear setbacks. Yeah. Okay. And uh we have a green space percentage, right? Is this going to meet that? Yes. without the retention pond or without the ex I guess that's an existing pond from

correct. It really depends if if the pond um right now it's not a retention pond. I based on our planning advisory committee this project did come at the end of February so it's been through a very preliminary review but they haven't submitted full civil drawings at this point. Um but based on that they would like to use the pond for storm water. Um, we do have provisions in our UDO to allow up to 50% to count towards the open space if it's activated. So, if it has a trail around it if the slope is less than if it's not a very steep slope. Um, so a portion of that pond could count towards the open space, but it wouldn't be it wouldn't be able to count for all of it. just as a a matter of I guess why um you've got open space now is that how we define that in the UDO is open space or is it is it green what is it what do we call it

so we have open space requirements we have form number of form requirements and then we also have active okay open space what is that. So I believe open space is 10%. It it may be more based on the acreage. What is open space? Oh, it can it can be anything that is active. So it could be a pool, it could be a walking trail, it could be just undisturbed trees, natural area. Um, but we do require 25% of the required open space to be active.

Now, what what is active? Um, so I'd have to give you the exact exa exact definition from the code, but again, that's something where people are actively able to use it. It couldn't be anything with the slope of three three or less three years steeper. Sorry, I said that wrong. Um, so it would have to be a dog park or a cabana or a fire pit or a trail, a linear park that flat fish in. That's that that counts as It could absolutely. Yeah. Okay. I again I'm not sure the plan for the pond, but the other thing, and this is off subject because I know this doesn't apply to that, but you said 3% slope.

Mhm. Why do we say 3%. Um for typically we require anything that's going to be um steeper than that, it has to be on open space or maintained by the HOA. And we've just had drainage issues in the past with homeowners. No, I I kind of go to it. It would be a unique site, but let's say there was like a a rock wall face that was natural and they wanted to That's a playground for adults. They don't want to pay the insurance. I think we could take a look at it though. I don't I don't think it's out of the question. As long as we know As long as we know how we're defining things, that's good.

Yeah. We just don't count that typically as active because it's usually really steep and you can't walk. you know, you want something flatter. Um, but you could certainly have it and we could take a look at it if it met. I mean, if you truly could climb on it, I think that would absolutely meet our definition of active open space.

Just just for my information on the open space, if they said, you know what, this is going to be all concrete and we want the slope on it so the kids that live there, they can skateboard. I mean, does that count? It would um it would obviously have to be accounted for in the storm water plan. Sure. Of course, because it's impervious, but yes, that could absolutely count. No, that's a great question. Yeah. So, given this discussion, would the applicant like to add anything to it? Are you far enough along to feel confident in discussion in in this discussion? Sure.

You'll state your name uh and address just as a matter of the record, please.

Certainly. Michael Roth uh with TMC Development, 26 Elmsley Road. Um council members, thank you for being here tonight. Yeah. So, um we were fortunate enough to get this property under contract. Um I think unfortunately it was due to the damage that they sustained from Helen. Um but when we met with Greer staff, we originally presented a plan that showed 85 lots, I believe. Um, and as we've been talking with some of our builder partners, we've kind of come to this plan that's before you today that I circulated before the meeting. Um, that has been through around the pack. Uh, so we've it's been thought out pretty pretty well. Regarding the pond, um, it's a beautiful pond. We would love to save it. We do not want to add an ugly uh, detention pond. And so our uh at the chagrin of our engineer, we are studying very hard how we can um modify that pond to for it to accept our storm water and treat water quality and water quantity uh to to maintain the integrity of that pond and it really to be an addition and as we see it active open space for that community. um as it you know as it relates I'm happy to talk about anything else as it you know as it relates to this uh to this subdivision and the reason before you

what is the rough uh size of the smallest lot? Um it's roughly 55 by 125. So off the top of my head that might be 7,000 ft.

Okay. So it's not too far off of the suburban neighborhood, right? Um, that's right. I mean, you know, with our original design, we we really needed the the um the reszone. We still do with what we're shooting for. Um, you know, the I would say the reszone to the traditional neighborhood gives us greater flexibility on the lot size and um and the setbacks. Now this is so when we so when this gets reszoned um or if it gets resoned I guess and I guess this more for you Ashley we get we reszone this piece of property as traditional and TMZ um decides not to build it and sell this property u or sell this project I guess uh somebody could come back and under the zoning of that property build up to 10 parcels per acre.

10 units per acre. Yes. Yes. 10 units per acre. Yes, that is accurate. Again, when staff looks at whether the zoning is appropriate, we're not we are not considering the proposed site plan. We're considering all of the things that could go there. Um, but yes, that is accurate. But you you would still recommend I think you said that right. Staff would recommend. Yes. Okay. Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. Actually, you said something. I I feel like we should clarify it because I think it was an accident. You said 3% slope. I think you meant 3 to one. I'm sorry. I did. Yes. I just want, you know, this is really an engineering term that I shouldn't get myself into, but yes, very steep slope is steeper. Yeah.

Than 31. Big difference between 3 to one and Thank you for clarifying others. questions discussion comments. Miss Duncan Mr. Wood yes Mr. Booker yes Mr. Lander no Mr. Bettis yes Mr. Lamb. Yes. Mayor Danner.

No. Um council, let's uh move forward. Thank you, Miss Cotti. Let's um move to the second item before us this evening. Um Councilman Karen Booker has asked uh for discussion only uh a discussion around vape and smoke shops. Mr. Booker, the floor is yours, sir.

Thank you, mayor. And for the record, staff has provided some uh a map of some of the actually all the vape and smoke shops located in Greer, but also you have before you um I've written written down exactly u my take on what I'm what we're going to be discussing tonight. You can follow along. I'm going to read it. But again, this is just for clarification of my intent and and so we're all clear on what what we're trying what I'm trying to do. But I'll start reading. It says, "Mayor and city council members, Greer has always been a community willing to take a stand for the well-being of its people." If you ever heard David Loveg Grove with Greer Heritage Museum speak, he often reminds us that in Greer's earliest days, the town actually had more brothel than businesses. Our forefathers saw that as a threat to the character of the community and took an unprecedented step. In April of 1880, Greer became the first dry town in South Carolina. That decision was not made lightly. It was made by leaders who believed that health, safety, and character of their community were worth protecting. Today, we face a different challenge, but one that calls for the same thoughtful leadership. Greer is growing rapidly, and with that growth comes new businesses and opportunities. That is something we should welcome. But growth also brings responsibility. We must ensure that the businesses opening in this city reflect the kind of community we want Greer to remain for generations to come. Recently, I've raised concerns about the increasing number of vape and smoke shops opening throughout our community. As a council member representative, I believe we must pay attention to how this trend impacts the character, health, and safety of our neighborhoods,

especially when the businesses are located near schools, parks, places where we worship and where young people gather. Now, is it Now, it is important to acknowledge that under federal and South Carolina law, hemp derived products such as CBD oil and certain vaping vaping products are legal. Businesses selling these products are operating within the law. However, legality does not remove our responsibility as local leaders to consider how these businesses fit into our overall fabric of our community. This conversation is not about targeting any individual business owners. It is about asking a simple but important question. Are we striking the right balance for our community? I have heard from parents, educators, and local business owners who are concerned about the growing visibility and concentration of these stores, particularly near areas where families and young people gather. That is why I believe it's appropriate for us to review our zoning and local regulations and determine whether additional safeguards or spacing requirements should be considered. Greer has always been a city built on family values, responsibility, and thoughtful growth. Just as our leaders did in 1880, we must continue to making continue making decisions that protect the character and future of the place we proudly call home. Thank you. And with that, that's all I have to say concerning that portion.

Comments or discussion um in that regard this evening? Right. right now. How do we how are the the tobacco and smoke shops uh categorized? What do how do we look at them? Sure. Currently, thank you, mayor and council. Um, currently they are not designated any differently than um general retail. So, it would just be considered retail. Okay. And do we do the same for liquor stores? We do not. They are called out separately. Okay.

Two questions. Um, you're very specific about the vape and smoke stores. Uh, there are other types of stores that sell CBD products and generally they'll they'll say CBD and you and I have had this discussion. you can put them side by side and you can tell the the difference. Um, are you What's your thoughts on the CBD shops?

So, tonight the discussion is really around the vaping and smoke shops just because I don't feel like they're currently in compliance with some of the intent of our UDO. And I think uh from a implementation standpoint, we've created a back door and a lower barrier of entry considering, you know, they're just they're just retail shops. And so, um, you know, CBD oil, I mean, my personal opinion, I don't smoke, drink, or any of that. So, that's that's not my that's not my forte. But right now, the the big issue is the for me the vape and smoke shops. CBD is something else that something else we can consider of course and I'm I'm open to that but uh like I said my focus is more on smoking vape.

What is your com what what do you hear from you say educators? What are they saying? Is it underage folks or

Yeah. So really the issue we're facing now is one this is so new to South Carolina and it's mass- prodduced. you know, the limitate the limit of these oils and THC products supposed to be.3. Well, a couple weeks ago, you know, they had a big sweep in Greenville and they, you know, gathered up a lot of items that were beyond a legal limitation. But you can even talk to uh our police and you know any anyone in sheriff office will tell you that let's say I go into one of these stores and I want to get let's say gummies or whatever per se. Um no two packs have the same level of of THC. You know you may pick one pack and it's over the limit. The same pack behind it it's a different

it's not regulated. Yeah. It's not regulated. And so bad again. Quality control is poor. Yeah. And and I don't I don't know if that was the this is the unintended result of legislation that was implemented at the state. And so now it's at our front door where I think people are just seeing it's it's a potential cash cow and they're exploiting the legislation currently as it sits. I did.

But in reference to your your direct question of of you know teachers and um I've heard stories from teachers about how uh you know parents are now telling their children especially elementary age don't take any kind of candy cuz it looks like if I get gummy bears that gummy bear looks like a regular gummy bear and you know for a child that is 50 75 lbs these products are for adultsized individuals. So the so the the health implications on them is is a lot greater.

Is there a if you go into a convenience store to buy beer and wine or a pack of cigarettes, they they ask for your ID to because there's an age limit. Is that not a requirement for this or is it You'll find that I believe the the age limit for vaping is 21.

Yeah. And if you'll walk around, clearly there's folks that's not 21 doing it. Um, I think just the access to it is so so easily. And just one of those vape cartridges is equivalent to 50 cigarettes. Now, I'm not here to legislate morality and and say you should or shouldn't do it. I'm saying that the barrier of entry and that loophole of them be able to be classified as retail stores at least should be considered and stopped and have them as a classification as its own so that we are at least aware of what's coming to Greer cuz right now any open spot you can just open up a a sp vapor smoke shop as long as it's in the you know commercial district.

Is that is that the same for Ashley? Is that the same for u a CBD shop that we also consider them regular retail? We do not have those called out separately. I believe the only thing we have called out separately right now is alcohol. Is alcohol. Okay. And what is what is the call out on on alcohol?

Um so it's defined as its own use. Um so that means it has its own line in the permitted use table where we um say where it's permitted by right, where it's permitted with special exception and where it's not permitted at all. Um so it is slightly different for liquor stores or than it is for general retail. Um so I believe in commercial general like it may be a special exception versus permitted by right. Um so it's certainly something that can be done. Um we would define a use, we would create use standards and then we would put it in the table and define which districts it would be allowed in.

So I guess my question would be then looking at this map of 13 or 14 current vape shops, the vast majority of them are along Highway Corridor. Yes. which would also include liquor stores. Am I not right correct? Mhm. Yes. Uh the other two, one is downtown and the other one is pretty close to downtown. Um where's the one you see in downtown? Uh Cameroons

and then the tobacco. Um so so so if even if okay

it were let's let's just say for the purpose of discussion there's at least 11 of these that are located on highway corridor. So that if if we if we went to something similar to the alcohol store, uh it wouldn't change that, would it not? I mean, it wouldn't it it would not. Um, so there's a very wide variety of ways that you could regulate um from something less severe such as um stricter signage standards allowing less percentage for wall space or window. um all the way to something as strict or stricter than other businesses such as separation requirements like Mr. Booker mentioned. Um you can place restrictions or separation from certain uses so churches or others but those are just examples. And then you could also um separately, this would be a different consideration, you could have separation requirements between like uses. So you could have a certain distance requirement from an existing um tobacco and vape shop. Um again, there's a variety of other things you could do. I would say those are probably the most popular restrictions for the communities that do restrict them. Ashley, we we've talked about liquor stores and that's those are unique in uh at least in our state that that's they they're the only places that can sell um spirits. Correct.

But these products I'm assuming um you know if if it's a lot of the places have tobacco and vape. tobacco is is one thing, but then you have vape and then you have the the other products that they make the from the derivatives of the hemp. Um, and they can be sold and you see them in convenience stores and other places. Um, how would you how would you define that store? That that's the question. I guess

it's a very good question. I don't have a definitive answer for you. I would think we would probably need to um include language of primary retail goods or a certain percentage. Um we could certainly look up how others define it and provide you with examples um to consider. Um but I agree that is it is tough. Is it a gas station that happens to sell them or is it a tobacco and vape shop that only sells those products? Um, we would certainly have to look at the language carefully. Now, do you have issue with the tobacco or is it just the Okay,

really, you know, if you look at this map and you look at the areas where most of these are occurring, it's in areas where you would be considered, you know, low moderate income individuals. So, you know, you've got all along the Sunnyside corridor, all along the, you know, the Nemore corridor. That's my my concern is they understand the numbers. Yes.

And are they targeting these individuals that are most likely to frequent these places? Because, you know, if that's the if it if proximity, you know, from an efficiency standpoint and you're wanting to cover a whole city, you know, you would see some in Paul and, you know, some some of these other locations, but they're literally isolated among amongst a specific corridor. Well, a lot of them look like they're cheap rental spaces on a high volume traffic. And that's that's just smart business right there. I don't I don't not sure about targeting, but uh they've just found

uh a lot of traffic and an inexpensive rental spot. So that to Jay's point, I think if if we were talking about tobacco and vape shops, you would have to add pretty much every gas station in this area onto this map because they all have tobacco and vape stuff, right? Pretty much. I think that's where we'd have to be very careful with the definition of what what it is. Yes. Well, I mean, we don't I mean, I guess I guess it's a two-way street because you can't go to a gas station and buy a bottle of bourbon. Correct.

Right. Um, and not defining it at all is is also um I don't think smart at all either because uh at the end of the day, if it's just regular retail, you could have a shop that sells I don't know, gadgets and gizmos, but they also sell this stuff, right? So there's it has to be defined in some way or another.

You've had conversations with PD. Do they have a a program like Sting Method? I remember gosh years ago when they started changing the drinking well before they start changing the drinking age there was places that you could go underage that they would sell to underage folks and the PD would do a sting. Have they done anything like that that you know of that I I haven't asked that question?

I know it's a big deal at the at the high school level. I mean, my my mother works at at the high school and uh there's a lot of kids that are caught with the stuff at at school. So, it does it definitely to Booker's or Mr. Booker's point, it definitely makes its way to uh very underageed. Yeah, I think individuals. One of the first things we probably ought to do is get a opinion from the PD to see if that would even help because when you talk about high school, those I'm assuming underage I don't know what's the age to buy a pack of cigarettes now. 21. Really? Yeah.

Used to go to the Hardies across an old high school and they had a machine at 12. But you got used to buy them at the high school, right? All right. Any further discussion in this regard? Thank you, Mr. Booker. We have uh no items this evening in executive session. We stand a journ.