Planning, Zoning and Appeals Board - Regular Meeting

So keep yourself and your community safe with these rail safety tips. It takes a train a mile to stop, so stay off the tracks. Don't try to beat the train. Remove earbuds or headphones near the tracks. stopping a bad decision is easy stopping a train isn't be safe and stay off the tracks take the pledge today and learn more about rail safety at brightlinesafety.com

Thanks for joining me today to learn more about rail safety. And remember, the decisions you make impact you and your entire community. Stay off the tracks, take the safety pledge, and share these tips with your family and friends so you can help keep everyone safe.

Estoy bien bonito, ¿no?

Seguro piensas que soy muy chistoso. Espero que no estés manejando y texteando. ¿Sabías que cada año hay miles de choques provocados por conductores distraídos en el celular? Piensa en todas las mamás, papás y niños que sufren porque alguien maneja distraído.

Un momento en la pantalla mientras manejas. Podría tener consecuencias por el resto de tu vida.

Ya no soy tan chistoso, ¿verdad?

You come to an intersection which is blocked by other traffic. You should... A. Go slowly until the traffic ahead moves. B. Get as close as possible to the other car. C. Stay out of the intersection until you can pass through. D. Sound your horn to make the cars move up. The correct answer, C, entering a blocked intersection can cause gridlock and may be illegal. Only move forward when there's enough space for your vehicle to fully clear the intersection.

I love spending time with my partner as part of my routine.

For me, my plants are very important.

The moment I get in the pool, I can leave everything I feel in the water. We go to the doctor together and it gives me emotional support. Help us track flooding in your neighborhood by reporting it through the iSeeChange app. Your reports can help us better understand and address flooding issues in our city. Download the app today and start reporting.

Our team is embarking on a mission of repair in the northeastern part of Miami. The focus of our work involves the replacement of fractured sidewalks. The root cause of the sidewalk deterioration traces back to the expansive growth of trees. Our diligent efforts will encompass the removal of the tree stump, a task expertly undertaken by Gisela and Leo from the operations department, propelling the sidewalk toward its readiness for the concrete pouring process. our daily routine involves the diligent handling of diverse 3-1-1 report calls as our work day nears its conclusion we are rewarded with a beautifully restored and secure sidewalk we're here

at a vacant lot that currently has some issues that co-compliance is here to address. There used to be two structures which got demolished by the city because the owner wasn't able to maintain them. And now the grass is overgrown again and the property, it's not maintained. So we're here to assess the situation and carry out some type of communication with the owners if we can get them. And if not, the city would have to get involved. They have 10 days to come into compliance and part of the compliance is maintaining their Swale, which would be the overgrowth along the right of way. It would be clearing up the lot as well as registering it with the City of Miami because it is now vacant and is no longer a structure on here and it's not being occupied. A lot like this is a hazards to our neighborhood. It attracts illegal dumping. It attracts trash, stray animals, and it devalues the property values of the houses around us. As a reminder, if you so happen to own a vacant lot, it is to be registered with the City of Miami. By doing so, you can go on to our website under code compliance. It will provide you all the steps that are needed to take.

Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Claudia Ponte, the founder and owner of Camila's Patisserie. Camila's Patisserie came about because of a very painful moment in my life, which was the loss of my daughter, Camila. My husband and I tried to get pregnant. When we finally did it, unfortunately, things didn't come out as they should have. She was a girl, she was going to be called Camila. I channeled my mourning in baking cheese cakes, since it is my husband and I's favorite dessert. The most beautiful thing of all is always carrying Camila in my heart, honoring her through the cheese cakes that I bake. The Basque cake, as its name says, is originally from the Basque area in Spain, and it differs from the traditional cheesecake because it does not have a cookie base. This is cooked at a very high temperature, which creates a caramelized layer on the bottom and top, and its center is very creamy, so it is really exquisite. We started doing a lot of farmer's markets. I also started knocking on doors in the different restaurants and cafes around Florida. And we opened our first store here in the city of Miami a year ago. To date, we have taken out around 28 flavors. Starting with Camila's Classic, which is one of my favorites, I think forever. It's a mixture of vanilla and a slight touch of almond. Because when I was pregnant with Camila, my craving was almonds. So in honor of her, we have that touch of almonds. And something very important that also characterizes us is that we have gluten-free and sugar-free options for all celiac and diabetic people. We also have our famous cheesecakes and it's simply a jam and we do it exactly with the piece of the flavor of your favorite cheesecake. The demographic sector of our clientele, in its majority, was here in the city of Miami. And as a blessing from heaven that Camila sent us, she sent us this place here. We are located on 1834 Southwest and 27th Avenue in the city of Miami. It is our first store, it is our physical store, and it is the main store that distributes to all the restaurants and cafes to which we go around the south of Florida and to our other two locations. One of the things we see in the future in Camila is to continue expanding. We don't know what we can announce next year.

Miami is the third major city in the U.S. to adapt this smart loading zone technology. This will make for safer roads for drivers and pedestrians, save time and fuel. It will help local businesses get their deliveries, all while keeping traffic moving. It is a win for residents and a win for businesses.

Welcome to Brisas del Sol. This is a beautiful brand new building where we are welcoming residents that make less than 80% of our area median income. That means seniors, working people. This project, when I first encountered it, the building was falling apart, the elevators didn't work. I promised the residents of Miami that nobody would live like that. And here we are today celebrating a brand new construction. Affordability needs to be a home you move into, not something you talk about.

This is so beautiful. It just speaks to the fact that we know that people need to live in dignity and it's affordable. It's perfect. County and city working together, we've got tens of thousands of units helping people live dignified lives.

Listen, a lot of times we talk about affordable housing and very few people take action. We are taking action and this is the proof and we're delivering with Auburn Related, we're delivering quality.

This was a city-owned building that was in terrible condition and with the support of Mayor Levine Cava, Mayor Higgins, County Commissioner Vicky Lopez and my colleague on the commission, With Rolando Escalona, they've really done a spectacular job doubling the number of units and it's primarily for seniors. It's the kind of folks that have helped to build the city. Now they get to stay right here in the heart of Little Havana.

For me, this is a big day. This is yet another opening of another building in District 5 in the heart of Little Havana, and I'm so very grateful to Related Urban and to Mayor Higgins for her vision. We look forward to doing much more of this in District 5.

This project was a 40-something-year-old project, not in very good condition. There were 55 seniors living here, and now we have this brand-new building with twice the amount of units, 110 units, and all of them have the ability to now have a brand-new home to come to.

So this is the Precious Del Sol project. There's two different buildings. Combined, this city has invested $2.25 million into this project through U.S. HUD home investment partnership funds. This is going to allow for 146 affordable housing rate units between 50% to 80% AMI to individuals and households, and it's going to make a huge difference in their lives, their quality of life, with market rate type housing for them and their families.

Miami continues to demonstrate its commitment to innovation by becoming one of the country's first cities to adopt this digital technology for cargo areas. This represents a significant advance in the modernization of our public transport.

We are celebrating all the women who work at the City of Miami every day trying to make the lives of our residents a little bit better and a little bit easier. It is great to be gathered with them and we are especially grateful that we have some of the community leaders that also work deeply in the City of Miami. Happy Women's History Month everyone!

We're recognizing Women's History Month. We have our first female Miami-Dade County mayor. We have our first female city of Miami mayor. There are so many contributions, so many ways in which women lead and nurture our families and our communities. And this is just one day to celebrate all of that.

I'm so proud to be here today and be part of this celebration. As I said when I spoke, without you, we are nothing. So I just wanted to thank all the females that moved this city forward.

Thank you for everything you do every single day. And the mayor and commission have organized this event to recognize special women in our community. One woman from each city district was recognized. Mine in District 4 was Lindsay Corrales, and I'm thrilled to be able to celebrate all the wonderful women from the community and from our staff. that do great things in the City of Miami every day.

It's the day that we honor the women trailblazers of the City of Miami throughout the various departments for all the hard work that they're doing.

Thank you so much for doing this for all the staff. It's so important to celebrate Women's History Month and the leadership of all of us that have continued to move the city forward in the right direction.

Today we are in the heart of Liberty City on MLK Boulevard for the groundbreaking of the Yeager Plaza. It is going to be a mixed development and honor the Yeager family's clinic that stood here for many, many years.

It's going to be a mixed-use development, 135 apartments, workforce housing, affordable housing, as well as a commercial component where we will have the new Yeager Clinic, healthcare facility, and other services such as education for youth in STEAM career fields.

This is a project that has many project partners and sponsors and we're just so grateful for them being here today at this groundbreaking and look forward to the ribbon cutting and thanks so much to the city of Miami, Miami-Dade County for seeing this project through.

As technology advances, scammers have figured out multiple ways to use it against us. Scammers target consumers searching for company contact information online by purchasing fraudulent ads that look legitimate. When individuals click these ads or call the displayed numbers, they are unknowingly connected with scammers and share personal information. Victims often only realize they have been scammed weeks later. To protect yourself from online search scams, follow these tips. One, always use the phone number on your FPL bill instead of searching for contact information online. Two, check the URL for misspellings or extra characters. Three, look for the padlock icon, which indicates a secure connection. FPL will never demand immediate payment through an app like Zelle or Venmo, a prepaid card or wire transfer to avoid service disconnection. FPL will never ask for personal information, such as account numbers or your social security number. FPL will never ask for personal information unless you call them, in which case we will ask questions to confirm you are the account holder. FPL does have energy experts who complete home energy surveys, but FPL will never solicit a customer by phone to offer home energy surveys. Our FPL energy experts will visit your home only if you request the survey and make an appointment. To spot a scam, you should know the process for late payments. FPL tries to be as flexible as possible, giving customers 21 days after the bill issue date to make a payment. Shutting off someone's electricity is always our last resort. Recently, we have been seeing an increase in scammers knocking on customers' doors, claiming to be with FPL or a company that works with FPL. If you have a scheduled appointment, ask for the work request number prior to letting a worker in your home. Contact the FPL Care Center or law enforcement if you think you have been a victim of a scam. It is also important that you report the suspected scam or fraud to FPL. Go online to fpl.com slash protect for more information.

I'm an extra dealer and I'll be your sub today.

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Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Planning, Zoning, and Appeals Board. Any person who is a lobbyist pursuant to Chapter 2, Article 6 of the City Code must register with the city clerk and comply with related requirements for lobbyists before appearing before the Planning, Zoning, and Appeals Board. A person may not lobby a city official, board member, or staff member until registering. A copy of the code section about lobbyists is available in the city clerk's office and online at municode.com. Any person making a presentation, formal request, or petition to the board concerning real property must make the disclosures required by city code in writing. A copy of this City Code section is available at the Office of the City Clerk and online at municode.com. Please silence all cell phones and other noise-making devices. Any person with a disability requiring assistance, auxiliary aids, or services for this meeting may notify the Hearing Board's liaison. The agenda and the materials for each item on the agenda for this meeting was published and made available to the board in advance of the meeting. The materials are also available during business hours at the city clerk's office and online 24 hours a day at miamigov.com. Any person may be heard by the board through the chair and pursuant to the published notice for not more than two minutes on any proposition before the board unless modified by the chair. When addressing the Board, the member of the public must first state their name, address, and what item will be spoken about. Anyone wishing to appeal any decision made by the Board for any matter considered at this meeting may need a verbatim record of the item. A video of this meeting may be requested at the Office of Communications or viewed online at miamigov.com. Items shall proceed according to Section 7.1.4 of the Miami 21 Zoning Ordinance. The members of the board shall disclose any ex parte communications to remove the presumption of prejudice pursuant to Florida Statute Section 286.0115 and Section 7.1.4.5 of the Miami 21 Zoning Ordinance. Staff will briefly present each item to be heard. For applications requiring board approval or recommendation, the applicant will then present its application or request to the board. If the applicant agrees with the staff recommendation, the board may proceed to its deliberation and decision. The applicant may also waive the right to an evidentiary hearing on the record. The city requires anyone requesting action by the board to disclose before the hearing anything provided to anyone for agreement to support or withhold objection to the requested action pursuant to City Code Section 2-8. The communications department will broadcast the meeting through all the usual channels and avenues. The meeting can be viewed live on Miami TV at miamigov.com slash TV and on Comcast channel 77 within the city. The broadcast will have closed captioning. A member of the public may submit comments via the city's online comment form. The comments submitted through the comment form, if any, were distributed to the board members and city administration throughout the day so that the board can consider them prior to taking any action. Additionally, the online comment form will remain open during the meeting to accept comments and distribute to the board members up until the chair closes public comment. All comments received will be included in the public record and will be considered by the board prior to taking any action. The public comment options established and provided for this meeting comply with Section 286.0114, as the City has provided these avenues for members of the public to indicate support, opposition, or neutrality on a proposition. The City published an agenda as well as included in the notice to the public the items and topics that will be discussed at this meeting. Additionally, the public has been given the opportunity to provide public comment during the meeting and within reasonable proximity and time before the meeting. The city provided information on how to submit those comments in the notice to the public and on a dedicated web page. Board members, are you comfortable with all the notice provisions set forth and these uniform rules of procedures we've established for this meeting?

Yes.

Thank you.

Please rise for a moment of silence on the Pledge of Allegiance.

Hello, please remain standing. If you intend to testify in this proceeding, do you swear? Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony that you will give will be the truth and nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you. You may be seated. Calling attendance. Chair, Mr. Adam Gersten.

Present.

Thank you. Vice Chair Andres Lopez. Present. Calling member Lynette Cardoche. Thank you. Calling member Chris Collins.

Present.

Thank you. Calling member Maria Paula De Corollas. Present. Thank you. Calling member Eduardo Fernandez. Also welcome to the board. Calling member Paul Mann.

Present.

Thank you. Calling member Elon Mottoyer. Present. Thank you. Calling member Joshua Patinkin.

Present.

Thank you. And calling member Manuel Vidillo. I do want to put on the record that Vice Chair Andres Lopez and also Member Manuel Vidillo did request absence waivers.

Is there a motion?

Motion.

Is there a second? Second.

My apologies. Also calling Member Mario Bailey. Thank you. Sorry.

Sorry about that. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. So yeah, we do have a new board member, Eduardo Fernandez is the mayor's alternate and will be acting in full capacity, as a full capacity board member today. So he will be voting.

Are there, there's a few minutes I think. Motion to approve the minutes on the agenda.

Is there a second?

I can second February 4th, March 4th, and April 15th, but I don't have a copy of the April 1. But I can second the other three if somebody else will second the April 1.

Or would anyone just like to second all four? I'll do that. Okay. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? All right. I know we have a number of deferrals. I think we should probably do those. I don't know if we want to. Yeah, let's do those.

Yes. Mr. Chair, we have several deferrals and several withdrawals. I would like to say that we were able to get an announcement regarding those requests on the city's Instagram earlier today. So we were able to get some type of social media announcement out.

I want to thank you very much for getting that implemented so quickly. And it worked, I think. So did anybody see that at all yet? Okay, but it's happening. So that's good news. It's the first time that's ever happened. So we've actually been able to get word out through the city's Instagram for things that may be, or the people that we know of that are asking for deferrals prior to the meeting as opposed to showing up, you know, if you're a member of the public, showing up and having no idea that something was going to, at least someone was going to ask for a deferral even. So thank you very much, and thanks to the Office of Communications for getting that out.

Yes, a big thank you to them because they made it possible. on short notice as well. Great. And worked with us on that short notice, so we appreciate that.

Great, thank you. And just so you know, the reason it can be short notice is sometimes we don't find out till day of from applicants. So, thank you.

Okay. Item PZAB 3, which is 1155 Bellmead Island Drive. They are requesting a deferral to the next PZAB meeting. This is at the request of the applicant, and it's their second deferral, and that's to the May 20th meeting. Oh, I'm sorry, that's an indefinite deferral. So these will all be for indefinite deferral. So PZAB 3, PZAB 8 through 11 and number 13, which is 340 Biscayne Boulevard, those are CU revocations. And then PZAB 12, 35, 74 William Avenue are all for indefinite deferral. And then PZAB 14 through 17, this is for withdrawal deferral. And these are the future land use map amendments and rezones for the West Grove properties.

So 14, 15, 16, and 17.

Yes, are to be withdrawn. Withdrawn.

So then confirming 13 was one of the revocation, no, that's the only one that we're, that is a revocation that was also deferred.

Yes, 8 through 13 are CU revocations. It just happens that number 12 has a different address.

Got it.

Okay, do we have a motion? We can do these all at the same time, right?

Yes, you can do it.

Okay, so we're going to be doing, some of these are, well, the withdrawals are just withdrawals, so it's the deferrals, and is there a date?

The indefinite deferrals are, right, for six months. Six months.

Okay. Six-month deferral on all the other items that are not withdrawn. Do we have a motion?

Just for clarity, that's 3, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.

12, and yes.

And number 11. So it's 3.

So second. Point of clarification, not 12, correct?

12 as well. So it's three and then eight through 13. Right. Right.

And then everything after 14 and on is withdrawn.

That's correct.

Okay. Do we have a motion?

I'll motion it.

Second. Okay.

Roll call, please.

Calling member Chris Collins. Yes. Calling member Mario Bailey.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Lynette Cardoche. Thank you. Calling member Maria Paula De Corrales. Yes. Thank you. Calling member Eduardo Fernandez. Yes. Thank you. Calling member Paul Mann.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Elon Mottoyer. Thank you. And calling Joshua Patinkin. Thank you. And calling chair Adam Gersten.

Yes.

Okay. This passes by a vote of nine to zero. And the date for the indefinite deferral will be December 2nd, 2026.

Great.

Thank you. Okay. It's my understanding, I think we're going to hear number, item seven first. 300 Northeast 75th Street, Suite 101.

calling PZAB number 7, file ID 19154, a resolution of the Miami Planning, Zoning, and Appeals Board with attachments approving with conditions and exception pursuant to Article 4, Table 3, and Article 7, Section 7.1.2.6 of Ordinance number 13114, the Zoning Code of the City of Miami, Florida, as amended Miami 21 Code to allow for an alcohol beverage service establishment in a D2 industrial district zone for the property generally located at 300 Northeast 75th Street, Suite 101, Miami, Florida, as more particularly described in the attached and incorporated Exhibit A, making findings containing a severability clause and providing for an effective date.

Good evening, Amber Forte with the City of Miami Planning Department here to present PZ2418382. which is an exception for an alcohol beverage service establishment. In its exception pursuant to Article 4, Table 3, and Article 7, Section 7.1.26 of Ordinance 1311 for Miami 21 amended to allow for an alcohol beverage service establishment NAD to industrial district zone. Location is at 300 Northeast 75th Street, Suite 101. in District 5, and we are recommending approval with conditions. First, I'll go into the project's land use and the zoning. It is Zone D2, Industrial Zone District. The future land use is a industrial with the lowest abutting dwelling. The dwelling units allowed would be the lowest abutting, not to exceed 65 dwelling units per acre. This exception is proposing an alcohol beverage service establishment, a tap room really to accompany an existing brewery, a very small brewery up to five occupants and only beer and light snacks will be provided, no food. Here we have a site plan of that proposed alcoholic beverage service establishment. The total area of the taproom is 2,200 square feet, and the actual taproom would only take up 205 square feet. As you can see here, let me see if I can point this one out. Here is where the actual seating area of the taproom is. The rest of the establishment is dedicated to the brewery. So we have five seats and one ADA. Additionally, there would be one server who would also act as the security person. And here we have the hours of operation. I took a site visit to get a feel for the surrounding community and see what was around the existing brewery. And in that first photo, you can see it's a street view of the property located along Northeast 75th Street facing southwest. That will be where the, as you can see the laser pointer here, the alcoholic beverage service establishment is located. It's one of several tenants occupying these multi-tenant suites. And it will be the first tenant to the right upon entering the parking lot. The second image is a street view along Northeast 75th Street facing west, where the subject property is pictured on the left and the medium density residential is pictured on the right. Image three is going to be a street view of the multi-tenant industrial use located to the east of the property at the intersection of Northeast 75th Street and Northeast Third Court. This is also another multi-tenant space where you have different uses ranging from breweries to antique shops, bakeries, just a variety of uses already in the area.

And this photo is facing south.

That final image is going to be of the parking lot, the shared parking lot. Again, multi-tenant use includes bakeries, recording studios, and this is also facing south. Next I'll go into the criteria. So the first criteria was that the application shall be reviewed for compliance with the regulations of this code. The proposed alcohol beverage service establishment is a less intense use than what is allowed in the D2, which usually allows for more noxious uses. Alcohol beverage and service establishment was inappropriate. We thought it was inappropriate use to put there. The proposed establishment, again, only allows up to five occupants, leaving the density of the parcel relatively unchanged and the intensity of the use relatively limited. The second criteria is the review shall consider the manner in which the proposed use will operate given its specific location and proximity to less intense uses. So that use does directly above the medium density housing to the north. And that shared parking lot will direct some traffic onto that shared street, the 75th Street. However, all of the parking will be provided on site, and again, that limited occupancy does create a very limited use than what is generally allowed in a D2. And the final criteria would be to apply the mitigation measures to protect the budding properties, neighborhoods, and the public room from excessive noise, fumes, odors, commercial vehicle intrusion, traffic conflicts, and light spillover. That shared parking lot will limit the vehicular traffic and parking encroachment into that T5R to the north. And then there will be one security person on staff to aid in mitigating any potential noise nuisances generated from the use. And then no music will be played outside of the establishment, nor is any drinking allowed. So very limited use on that small parcel. All of the conditions are pretty standard, so I'm not going to go through all of them. But pursuant to Article 7, Section 7.1.26 of the Miami 21 Code, as amended, the Planning Department recommends approval with conditions of the requested exception. Thank you, and I welcome any questions.

Real quick, can you just leave the condition sheet up while we- I sure can.

Thank you.

Thanks. Good evening. Are we on? David Friedman, attorney, 2601 South Bayshore Drive, City of Miami, representing the applicant. The applicant, the individual applicant is here with his three-year-old son who needs to go back to his mother at 8 o'clock, hence the request to be moved up, for which we are very appreciative. The applicant operates a microbrewery in an area which is fairly described as somewhat depressed. They have an idea, which is to designate a small portion of the premises as a taproom where the public can come in, see the brewery, and sample the different types of beer they manufacture under the name of Wiener Dog. It is our hope that this would be a step toward rejuvenating this area somewhat and creating some interest. The little industrial park has basically no activity after 5 o'clock, And this would create some life and bring in some people to the property and create what we hope would be a little bit of an attraction for the neighborhood. So with that in mind, being an industrial zone, they need an exception, and we would appreciate your consideration. Thank you. Thank you.

Are there any members from the public who would like to speak on this application?

I don't think there is an adaption. Oh, okay.

Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street. And there are already a few businesses in that area that serve alcohol, entertainment venues. And I get to hear the thump, thump, thump music in the wee hours of the morning, the low bass notes that travel very far. This is a remarkable business. This is the first time in my lifetime that I've seen a business come before the city telling you they're only going to have five patrons. That's a heck of a business model. Only five patrons. So I'm glad to hear that the conditions that were read into the public record was that they will only have five patrons and that there will be no outside music. Can you verify that?

That's correct.

That was a condition? No outside music? That is correct. And did I hear you're also going to have a security guard to make sure there's no outside music? Is that what I heard? Yeah, there will be a security guard on site. Okay, that's remarkable. A security guard for only five patrons making sure they don't have any outside music. So that's what they're proffering. That's what you guys are probably going to approve. I just wanted to make sure it's on the record that a member of the public came before you to confirm what was said. Thank you.

Is there anyone else from the public who would like to speak? Bringing it back to the board. To my right.

Good.

That's it. Move to approve. Oh, wait. I just had a question, though. When did you begin the application process? Can you come to the mic?

I note that there's a 2024 process number on it. The client indicates it's been about two years in the process.

For the exception?

Yes, sir.

For five?

They've been operating under a beverage license that permits manufacturing.

For the manufacturing. They wanted to open the taproom.

Yes, sir.

But the taproom idea and application started two years ago. I'm sorry. Are you the applicant? You can bring... Just state your name if you would, please.

I'm sorry about that. No, no, no. It's totally fine. I start fill application one and a half, maybe one and a nine months before. It's a long process. It's a long time to start open. I have license to produce beer, like just manufacturing. But right now, I need selling my beer to some clients because, you know, this is like a showroom to sell my beer. Because another bar love that if they can come to my place, drink my beer. Oh, yeah.

Talk a little closer to the microphone. Sorry. Yeah. It's okay. And if you would, just state your name.

My name is Alex. I'm a little bit nervous, sorry.

No, that's okay. Okay, I'm just interested in, I think it says it's important that people understand how long you've been working to get five seats into your taproom. So if it's been a year and a half, I think that the public doesn't sometimes understand how difficult it is the process is for something like that, especially in an industrial area where more intense uses are allowed and you're using a less intense use and it still takes a very long time to get permission. So I just wanted to know how long it took you in particular to get through the application process.

Closely, two years.

Two years, okay, thank you.

To the chair, while the applicant's there. Just curious, what kind of beer?

Different type, all type, you know, IPA, chocolate stout, Baltic porter, wheat beer, pale ale, lager, everything. Thank you.

Sounds good. Mr. Chair, motion to approve? Yes, is there a second?

Okay, roll call, please.

Calling Member Mario Bailey. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Elan Mottoyer. Yes. Thank you. Calling Lynette Cardoche. Calling Member Chris Collins.

Yes.

Calling Member Maria Paula DeCarolis. Yes. Calling Member Eduardo Fernandez. Yes. Calling Member Paul Mann.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling Member Joshua Patinkin.

Yes.

Thank you. And calling Chair Adam Gersten.

Yes.

This passes by a vote of nine to zero.

Thank you. Good luck. Thank you.

calling PZAB 1 file ID 19077, a resolution of the Miami Planning, Zoning, and Appeals Board with attachments, approving with conditions five exceptions as an exception pursuant to Article 5, Section 5.7.2.4, of ordinance number 13114, the zoning code of the city of Miami, Florida as amended Miami 21 code to allow for the restoration, expansion, and master planning of the locally historically designated Coconut Grove Playhouse, an exception pursuant to article four, table three, to allow for the use of civic community facility, an exception pursuant to article four, table three, to allow for the use of office an exception pursuant to Article IV, Table 3, to allow for the use of commercial, an exception pursuant to Article IV, Table 3, to allow for the use of public garage, and four subordinate waivers pursuant to Article V, Section 5.7.2.4, Subsection D, a waiver to allow for an increase in maximum lot coverage from 50% to 62.4% which is 62.4%, a waiver to allow for a decrease in minimum green space from 30% to 14.9%, a waiver to allow for an increase in maximum driveway width from 10 feet to 30 feet. a waiver to allow for an increase in maximum impervious pavement within front setbacks along Main Highway and Charles Avenue, and 30% to 100% for the real property designated CI civic institutional transect zone, generally located at 3500 and 3498 Main Highway, Miami, Florida, as Moore particularly described, in the attached and incorporated Exhibit A, making findings containing a severability clause and providing for an effective date.

Good afternoon, members of the board. Efren Nunez with the Department of Planning and Zoning. I'm here before you to bring an item for the restoration and expansion and master planning for the historically designated Cook and the Grove Playhouse. The request again is for five exceptions and four associated waivers. For you, you can see the site analysis. The project site contains approximately 2.39 acres. It's located within the Coconut Grove neighborhood conservation district. Here you have an aerial of the subject site and the surrounding properties. Again, the subject property is Zone CI. It consists of two addresses, and it's surrounded with T5 to the north, T5L to the south, and T3 to the east. It's located along the main highway, and it's located within the NCD. Here you have some context in terms of what the existing property looks like. As you can see, a portion of the site has already received a building permit for demolition for the rear portion of the theater. And the portion that is historically designated fronting main highway and Charles Avenue is what remains. These are some of the existing conditions of the site. As you can see, the building is being held by stilts. This is the portion from the rear of the site where you can see the portion that has already been demolished, which received a building permit for the demolition for that portion. So I'm going to go over the quick history and background. This is important in terms of why we're here as this item has come before PISA before and has gone through HEP and City Commission on multiple occasions. So previously the site contained approximately 30,000 square feet of illegal non-conforming theater building. Site currently contains the remaining portion consisting of a three-story and approximately 12,000 square feet of illegal non-conforming historically designated structure. Back in 1926, the Coconut Grove Playhouse, formerly Paramount Pictures, was originally constructed as a movie playhouse designed by architecture firm Kenneth and Elliot in the Spanish Rococo architectural style. In 1955, the theater was remodeled by the Alfred Bowen Parker to accommodate the playhouse. In the 70s, after multiple changes in ownership, the playhouse was ordered sold at auction at the steps of the county courthouse. In 1980, the state of Florida acquired the playhouse by assuming its $1.5 million mortgage. The state contracted the Coconut Grove Playhouse Inc. to operate the theater. In 2004, pursuant to county resolution R91904, Miami-Dade County residents passed a bond measure to allocate funds for the cultural facility, allowing needed funding for the Playhouse. In October 5th of 2005, the Historic and Environmental Preservation Board, pursuant to resolution HEP 205060, designated the Playhouse as a local historic site. In 2010, code enforcement cited the Playhouse as an unsafe structure as it had been shuttered for several years and had fallen into a state of disrepair. Subsequently, the county and city staff met on multiple occasions to discuss feasible alternatives to save the iconic historic structure. On October 8th of 2013, Miami-Dade County and FIU entered into a lease agreement with the state to manage and operate the site. The county held community meetings to discuss and gather input on the future programming and master plan for the Playhouse. On April 4th, 2017, HEP approved with conditions a certificate of appropriateness to conceptually allow for the partial demolition and the restoration, expansion, and master planning of the historically designated playhouse under resolution HEP 17-023. In April 19th of 2017, the appeal to the City Commission of HEP Resolution 1723 was filed. And then on December 14, 2017, a public hearing on HEP Resolution HEP 17023 appeal was held before the City Commission and resulted in Resolution R170622, which quashed the HEP appeal and instead added conditions to the decision of HEP. And then moving forward to February 1st, 2018, the applicant filed an appellant case number 2018-000032-AP01 to the 11th Judicial Circuit Court of Florida to appeal the city commission resolution. The circuit court in a mandate dated May 16th, 2019 quashed the city commission resolution and mandated the reinstatement of HEP resolution, HEP 17-023. And then again in February 21, 2018, the Urban Development Review Board recommended approval of the applicant's plan for the restoration, expansion, and master planning of the historically designated playhouse. On September 5, 2018, the Planning, Zoning, and Appeals Board moved to approve the expansion and associated waivers that allowed for the restoration, expansion, and master planning of the historically designated playhouse by a vote of five in favor and three against. However, pursuant to Article 7, Section 7.1.4 , no action to approve the exception shall take place without the concurring votes of a supermajority of the Board members present. As such, the motion failed. On October 10, 2018, subject site was designated and listed on the National Register of Historic Places by the National Park Service at the request of the State of Florida's Division of Historic Resources. On November 7th, 2018, a super majority of the city pursuant to PZAB resolution, PZAB R18059, approved the applicant's request to waive the time limits pursuant to Article 7 to eliminate the required 18-month period before hearings and approve the exception and associated waivers for the restoration and expansion master planning of the historically designated playhouse that was previously denied by PZAB on September 5th The disapproval was valid for a period of two years and thus expired on November 2020, which is the subject of this request. On March 5, 2019, HEP denied a final certificate of appropriateness to allow the partial demolition and restoration expansion master planning of the historically designated playhouse under HEP R19010. On March 11, 2019, the appeal to City Commission of HEP Resolution 19010 was filed, which is the second HEP appeal. And then on May 18th, 2019, a public hearing on HEP resolution appeal was held before the city commission and resulted in resolution 19-0169, which quashed the HEP denial and approved the certificate of appropriateness. And then on May 17, 2019, the city mayor, pursuant to provisions 4G5 of the Charter of Miami, vetoed the City Commission Resolution R190169 and reinstated the HEP denial. On May 23, 2019, the City's Mayor Veto was presented to the Senate Commission and was sustained. Then on June 17, 2019, the applicant filed Appellant Case Number 2019-000167-AP01 with the Circuit Court to appeal the Mayor's Veto of the City Commission Resolution R19-0169, the Second Circuit Court Appeal, the Second Court in a mandate dated June 22nd, 2021, quashed the mayor's veto and reinstated the city commission resolution R19-0169, which approved the certificate of appropriateness. Then moving forward to May 14, 2024, the planning director approved a timely file tolling extension for HEP resolution R19019, which extended the final certificate of appropriateness to January 14, 2030. On April 15, 2025, demolition permit for partial demolition of the theater pursuant to HEP resolution was approved. Waivers to allow the demolition was approved on January 27th, 2023 under file, PZ file number PZ2215336WA, a permit indicated retention of certain interior architectural items, such as pieces of the proscenium art, wall fountain portions of the solenite columns and concrete screens. Then on July 12, 2022 and September 18, 2025, the applicant requested tolling for PZAB Resolution PZAB R18059 due to the Second Circuit Court Appeal of HEP R10019. City staff advised the applicant that the requested tolling would not be recognized as PZAB Resolution was not under consideration by the Circuit Court in Appellant Case Number 2019-000167-AP01. And there was no automatic nor affirmative tolling for PZAB approval. So on December 3, 2025, the applicant submitted a letter of intent as a result to approve five exceptions and the associated four waivers needed to allow for the restoration, expansion, and master planning of the locally designated historic playhouse. While similar in character to what was approved in PZAB resolution, the applicant has made minor modifications based on community input, which is the subject of this request. So for background purposes, that was pretty much the summary of the project. The project before you is very similar in scale and the requested waivers and exceptions as it previously came before the board. So in summary, this is a project to rehabilitate and restore the portion of the architecturally significant historic front building facades to their original 1927 design, construct a 310-seat, 28,172-square-foot theatre, new 289 parking structure of the garage, onsite replacing the existing surface parking, with approximately 3,780 square feet of food and beverage space, 2,636 square feet of retail on the ground level, 21,390 square feet of office on multiple levels facing main highway, and 2,622 square feet of single-story office near the proposed pocket park. New internal wide promenades between the parking structure, playhouse, gateway buildings, and the theater buildings. And a new pocket park at the corner of Thomas Avenue alley and via Arbitrar Way. So again, the five exceptions is one exception to allow for the construction master planning of the Coconut Grove Playhouse. Then the four associated exceptions are for the use for the civic community facility office, the commercial component, and the public garage. So we've gone over the four waivers as read into the record by hearing board staff. So current 50% for lot coverage to 62.4% of lot coverage, minimum green space from 30 to 14.9, current what's required and what's proposed, driveway width of 10 to 30, and impervious pavement within the front setbacks along main highway and Charles Avenue from 30 to 100. It's existing because there's an existing historic structure, so we can't really move that. So here's the project site. On the left-hand side is what was previously approved, and then on the right-hand side is what's being proposed with the minor modifications that are being identified on the right side of the screen. So we have the removal of office space above the first level as requested by members of the community, removal of the fountain, some of the removals of the trees based on to allow better circulation and remove an expansion of some of the parking spaces that's listed on the upper right-hand corner. And then we'll go into greater detail. Here you can see a side-by-side comparison in terms of square footages. The previous design had the parking garage component at 34,238. It's been slightly reduced to 33,114 for a combined square footage. And the theater component remains the same at 27,203. And the existing historic structure remains the same at 4,750 square feet. Here is a general area of the green spaces. On the left is what was previously approved in green spaces that came before the board, and on the right is the revised design, which pretty much mirrors the same overall design. Here are the minor changes to the elevations. There's pretty much a change in stucco palette that has been, as you can see from the previous design, on the left and the changes in stucco design and the additional canopies on the ground level that are being proposed. Previous design elements, the major change again is the color of the stucco and the color of the screening. Those are the main changes that are being proposed before it had like a green metallic screening for the garage. Now it's more of a earth tone, a beige color that's being proposed for the garage. These are the project renderings of the Playhouse. You're looking south along Main Highway, or north along Main Highway, sorry. This is the revised design, pretty much remains the same. This is the western portion of the site. On the left side is what was previously approved with the office space above. The office space has since disappeared above the first floor and it's all garage parking. It's screened through this new architectural screening. This is the south portion looking east along Charles Avenue. Some minor changes as you can see. These are the major changes that have been, again, that we spoke about the screening component, here you can see it in elevation, the changes from the metallic green to more of the beige component, the scoring of the white above the theater portion to more of a beige khaki color that's been changed. This is the previous rendering along the pathways. This is a new revised design which has more pedestrian scale, a canopy to allow for outdoor dining, outdoor seating. So here you can see the before. All the only thing that was pretty much added is the canopy above and the change in the color screen. Again, the previous design versus the proposed design. Previous again with proposed. We're seeing the canopies that have been added. Again, the previous design to allow for greater circulation at the ground level between the theater and the historic structure. Again, the Planning Department recommends approval with conditions of the applicant's request for the five exceptions and the four associated waivers. This determination is based on the following analysis. The application has submitted the necessary information to the Planning Department which demonstrates compliance with the guidelines and criteria required for this type of permit as specified in Miami 21 Code, including Article 4, Table 12. Planning comments were provided in E-Plan pursuant to the comprehensive review of the application materials. All comments have been addressed through the E-Plan review process. The applicant was referred to the following departments, whose comments and recommendations have been considered or reflected in the final decision of the staff report that's before you. Those divisions were Art and Public Places, Environmental Resources, Fire, Historic and Environmental Preservation, Public Works and Zoning. So pursuant to Article 5, Section 5.7.2.4 and Articles 7, Section 7.1.2.5D and 7.1.2.4D, the Miami 21 Code has amended the Planning Department recommends approval with conditions of the exception to allow for the restoration, expansion, master planning of the historically designated Coconut Grove Playhouse along with the four exceptions and the four associated waivers. The following conditions, which I'll read into the record, is the civic institutional development shall be substantially in accordance with the plans as prepared and entitled Coconut Grove Playhouse PZAB Final Submittal 2-6-2026 prepared by Architectonica and batch stamped under PZ2520237 exception by the City of Miami. The applicant shall comply with the requirements of all applicable departments and agencies as part of the City of Miami's building permit submittal process. Condition three, the scope of the work including ground disturbance within the archeological conservation area, issuance of certificate to dig required at the time of building permit submittal. Applicant to include an archeological letter of agreement from an archeologist agreeing to monitor any ground disturbing work. Further comments and conditions may be applied upon receipt of the letter of the agreement. Condition number four, any tree-related activities, including removals, relocations, pruning of roots or canopy, and right-of-way activities shall require a tree permit. The applicant shall comply with all applicable requirements pursuant to Chapter 24 of the Miami-Dade County Code entitled Environment Protection. Condition number six, the development project shall comply with ordinance number 13656, titled Art in Public Places Program, specifically Article 3, Section 3.16 and Article 11, Section 11.7 of the Miami 21 Code, titled Art in Public Places, and or Section 2-11.15 of the Miami-Dade County Code of Ordinances, titled Works of Art in Public Places. states all government development projects shall provide for the acquisition of our equivalent in value to not less than 1.5% of the project cost of all government development projects. And condition number seven, Pursuant to Article 3, Section 3.8.4.1, a thoroughfare intersections within the building setback visibility triangle shall be maintained to include an area bounded by the first 25 feet along the intersecting edges of the right-of-way or baseline. The project were rounded and lines running across the lot and connecting to the ends of such 25-foot lines under Article 4, Table 8 of the Miami 21 Code. Addition of the required 25 thoroughfoot intersection visibility triangles to the site plan and assurance that there are no visible obstructions between a height of 2 and 10 within the visibility triangles is subject to Public Works review as part of the City of Miami building permit process. And then B of that condition, at intersections of driveways with thoroughfares with building setbacks, visibility triangles shall be maintained to include an area bounded by the first 10 feet along the intersecting edges of the base building line and the driveway, projected where around it and lines running across any of the intervening right of ways and the lots and connecting to the ends of such 10 foot lines. And then I'll just jump to condition number eight, at the time of building permits, revise sheets A1.1.1 to update the zoning data table to reflect the required setbacks for the T3 area in accordance with the NCD overlay regulations as a project is located within the overlay district. And then condition number nine, the applicant is required to comply with a 300-foot hydrant distancing and spacing requirements that the fire department connections must be no more than 100 feet away from the associated fire hydrant. And then 10, any substantial modifications to the approved plans as a result of the consequences of the applicant's compliance with other departments or agencies or code shall require a new review for the approval confirmation from the planning director in accordance with Article 7 of the Miami 21 Code. Commission Number 11, pursuant to Miami 21 Code Section 7.1.2.6, an exception shall be valid for a period of three years during which a building permit certificate of use must be obtained. This excludes a demolition or landscape permit, a one-time extension for a period not to exceed an additional year, may be obtained and approved by the planning director. Condition number 12, failure to comply with the conditions herein may result in the immediate revocation of this exception and shall be subject to any fines and penalties pursuant to city code. And the final condition, the city reserves the right to inspect the site to ensure compliance with conditions as listed. That pretty much concludes our presentation. I'm available to address any specific questions regarding background or the project overall.

So good evening to the board. Thank you so much for having us here today.

So chair, if I may, there is a request for an intervener status. I don't know how you want to handle it, if you want to hear that now, or if you would like the county to present first.

I feel like we would normally have the county present first and then hear the next thing, which would be intervener status.

Okay.

Yeah.

I just wanted to make sure that you knew that that was coming and the board members knew it.

I did not. Okay. Okay.

Great.

Thanks.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you. And I did plug in the HDMI.

Sorry. That mic is a little. I'm sorry.

As good as this one. Yeah. If you can. There we go. One second, just making sure that presentation is up. Can you hear me? There we go. Hi, my name is Ashley Thomas. I am the interim director for the Miami-Dade County Department of Cultural Affairs. Thank you to the board for having us here today on the agenda. Also, thank you for the public for attending. Thank you, Efren, for that presentation. I have a very brief presentation to talk about the why of those exceptions so that we can share with the board what we're here to do, which is to bring great theater back to the Grove. But before I start, I would like to have Assistant County Attorney Eddie Kirtley just join me for a few remarks.

Good evening, Mr. Chair and members of the board, members of the public. Assistant County Attorney Eddie Kirtley with offices at 111 Northwest First Street, Miami, Florida, 33128. You'll be hearing again from Ms. Thomas on the merits of the project. Sorry, is this better? All right, thank you very much. You'll be hearing again from Ms. Thomas shortly on all facets of the project, but I wanted to emphasize a few legal points at the outset. As was mentioned in the staff report, our other approval from 2018 unfortunately expired while we were litigating our historic preservation permit, and we asked for tolling to be recognized, essentially an extension which the city denied, and I just need to lodge for the record an objection to that, and I have a copy of our letter that we furnished that I will tender to the clerk. Having said that, we are very happy to be back here and to work with the city and this board to obtain the required approvals. We have a new application that, as staff noted, is virtually the same as the one approved in 2018 with some minor modifications. And as you've heard from the city staff, we do meet the requirements of the code as we did previously. And we have the positive recommendation that we appreciate. I want to emphasize that these requests are needed to return the playhouse and the theater use to the site. As this parcel is zoned CI under the Miami 21 code, a theater use is permissible only if approved by exception. So for this reason, anyone in the community that wants to see this site reactivated with a theater should be supportive of this particular zoning approval. We do seek approvals for other uses on the site, and we know that the community has strong feelings about some of these uses, but we hope that tonight will provide some additional clarity on the other uses that will be accompanying the theater there. These uses are driven either by historic preservation concerns, pragmatic considerations, or compliance with the Miami 21 code. For example, for historic preservation reasons, we're seeking the exception to permit the commercial uses on the property because the historic front facade, that building, included small shop fronts during the historical periods of the playhouse, and we want to make sure those are restored. For the garage, people need a place to park, and we are screening the garage so that it looks more attractive and complies with the code, and that will include some of the office uses as well. The waivers are driven mostly by the constraints of the site. This is an irregularly shaped parcel and we've designed a plan that works to accommodate as many of the interest as possible while working within the code. Paramount to the county is having an economically viable theater on this site and having appropriate parking for the theater and the surrounding community. restoring historical shop fronts, and having a place for theater goers to eat, providing green space for them and landscaping for the public to enjoy, and ensuring that the site respects its neighbors, particularly those in the West Grove. But accommodating all of these things requires a delicate compromise. For example, we're seeking a waiver for reduction from the code required green space. But in reality, we're upping the amount of green space and landscaping on the site from what is there today and what has historically been there. This has been in large part, as you know, a paved parking lot with a concrete building. And what we have now, we're looking at adding green space. But given the constraints of the site, we cannot fit all of the code required green space onto the parcel while also accommodating the theater, the parking garage, and the other uses. I want to point out that over the years, some people have said we should build a bigger theater on this site. But if you have the bigger theater, that also means less green space. It also means more parking is needed, which also means more traffic and less green space. This project tries to strike a balancing act, and we believe it does so well. The waiver for impervious surfaces, as noted, along the front property line is a function of where the historical front facade lies. We take it where we find it, and it lies on zero frontage, and this means that we need this waiver for impervious pavement along that front property line. But elsewhere on the site, we are compliant with pervious requirements, and we are committed to appropriately satisfying stormwater requirements throughout the site. With that, I would thank you for your time, and we'll turn it back to Ms. Thomas. I would ask for a few minutes of rebuttal after the public, and I also will just note that at the appropriate time, we do have an objection to the intervener request, and I'll come back for that. Thank you. Sure. Thank you.

Thank you, Eddie. Let's just make sure that presentation comes back on. Graham, can you step up? Thank you. All right, thank you all. And I'll be very brief. It's not on the, I don't know if you can see it up on your, there we go. Thank you so much. So again, my name's Ashley Thomas. It's not showing, so I don't know if, it's not our HDMI, but I'm just gonna go forward with the presentation. I would like for them to be able to see it.

I can try it again. Okay, there we go. Okay.

Okay. It's so much fun. Let's try that one more time. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, tech. All right. Third time's a charm. So my name is Ashley Thomas. I am the interim director for the Miami-Dade County Department of Cultural Affairs, address 111 Northwest First Street, Miami, Florida, 33127, 33128. So this evening, I'd just like to walk you through where we are with the Coconut Grove Playhouse restoration. Our goal remains the same, as I said, and I want to thank our county attorney as well as Efren for helping. THEIR PRESENTATION. OUR GOAL IS TO BRING GREAT THEATER BACK TO THE GROVE WHILE PRESERVING THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THIS CULTURAL LANDMARK. TODAY'S UPDATE WILL COVER THE PROGRESS TO DATE, ONGOING WORK AND WHAT'S COMING IN PHASE TWO AND THE REGULATORY STEPS TIED TO OUR PLANNING, ZONING AND APPEALS BOARD APPLICATION. SO AS WE CONTINUE PHASE ONE, WE ARE MOVING FORWARD AS PLANNED. WE RECEIVED OUR CONSTRUCTION PERMIT ON APRIL 15, 2025, WHICH ALLOWED US TO BEGIN WORK ON THIS PROJECT. Since then, a bestose abatement has been completed and the historic architectural elements have been carefully removed, created, and stored to incorporate into the new theater. We've also carried out shoring and selective demolition, all under archaeological monitoring to protect any historically significant materials on the site. These steps set the groundwork for the structural repairs that are now underway. There's ongoing work. So as we progress into uncovering layers of the building, we did find significant deterioration in the front facade, which is that historic area. It's much more extensive than originally visible, from concrete spalling to missing or corroded reinforcing steel and unreinforced masonry. It really needed urgent attention. We've since then worked with our engineering team, prepared a detailed repair plan, which the city reviewed and approved, We've installed that additional bracing, which you see in the photo, and if you drive by Main Highway, you've seen it as well. And the stabilization work is actively underway to protect the integrity of that historic gateway building. It's very meticulous work, but very essential to the building's future. So where we are in phase two, as phase one continue, we are laying the groundwork for that phase two. This next phase will fully rehabilitate the historic gateway building and restore many of its original uses, as our county attorneys mentioned, which included some boutique retail. We've also been at will be adding the brand new state of the art theater and a parking garage built in partnership with the wonderful MPA that includes some food and beverage spaces and offices along main highway and a collection of public plazas, paseos and pocket park and community spaces which you can see in those green areas. Altogether, phase two will truly bring back what we call the vitality and accessibility to the site while honoring its history. So the PSAP review process, and I'm saying this, I know the Board knows this, but for the public, I just want to remind everyone that it's one critical step in a larger regulatory review process. It's important to note, as it's been noted and reiterated, that this similar application was approved in 2018, but did expire, and it required us to submit a new application. The previous did include one exception, so we've heard people go, why more exceptions and four waivers? And the new application has five exceptions and four waivers, but that was based on the city's recommendation and guidance, which I'll explain with those images in the next slide. And I just want to just double down and say that this has been a very rigorous process, a very long process to get here, And each step of the way, we have received approvals. So we did get our approval from the City Urban Development Review Board, our Certificate of Appropriateness from the Historic Environmental Preservation Board, and a Chapter 267 review from the State of Florida. As it was mentioned, the site's zoning is civic institutional, which means that many of the uses and improvements we're proposing, it's just, it's absolutely required to go through an exception process under the Miami 21 Code. Other regulatory items like DERM requirements for permeability and drainage on the site, it will be addressed during the permitting process because there's more permitting that comes after this. The plan does include storm drainage to be addressed on the site to mitigate any flooding to adjacent properties. So what do those exceptions look like? I know Efren showed you just down. We're going to just show you on the site what it looks like. We've color-coded it in this particular section. So as I mentioned before, we had one exception that would allow for the restoration, expansion, and master planning of historically designated site within the CI zone. And based on consultation with the city staff, it was recommended that we include four use-related exceptions. So we just parsed out that one exception into four. So you'll see the theater is our civic use in that kind of red-pink color that you see. Office space is in that... I'm sorry. Office use is... I'm sorry, office, which is that purple. Sorry, the colors look different on the slide. And then retail food and beverage, which you see in that blue area. And then the gray area is the public parking. So these uses have always been a part of the project from the onsite and are truly essential to sustaining a community-serving cultural campus. We're simply adding the use-related exception to this current application at the city's request. The commercial uses are in part for restoring the original use of the historic gateway building, providing the liner uses for the garage that's required by Miami 21 code, and for providing supportive uses to the theater. And I just have one more slide to talk about the waivers. So we're also requesting those four waivers. So the four waivers were included in the previous application. So the first one that you see to the left is about allowable lot coverage. which is basically speaking to actual building versus open space. So we're asking for from 50% to 63%. It gives us a little bit more building to work with, which accommodates that footprint needed for the playhouse restoration and its supporting uses. On the right is the waiver that's talking about green space, and it's decreasing the code requirements. The request is to decrease the code requirement from 30% to 14.9%. And as our county attorney stated, you know, it just reflects the reality of designing a functional plaza, open area, paseo, all of those items on a constrained and irregular shaped lot. You can see that shape there. But I just want to rest assured to everyone that the green space will be maximized. We're proposing to install 122 trees where the code only requires 65. We have strong palette of native and Florida friendly trees and a pocket park which you can see in that back area on the northern edge to provide a lush transition into the residential area. So we're creating as many third spaces and community spaces to gather. And some of the community input that we got over years of this was that the historic grove should be connected to the playhouse and not have a wall to have its back to it. So that pocket park and that transition in there is a direct reflection of community input. And then the last two is about the driveway. So as it was mentioned, we have our first to increase our driveway width from 10 feet to 30 feet to support safe and efficient access to the garage. It'll still open two main highways. So people will come in and out through main highway. Our goal with that is it's just gonna allow us to get people in and out. So people don't want the congestion. So we wanna make sure that we are mitigating for any type of congestion. that will be there. The 30-foot will allow circulation for actually three lanes, including a central lane that we can adjust for different events. And then the last one to the right I want to speak to, because it came up on quite a few threads and boards, was about allowing 100% impervious pavement within the front setback. So I want to just show and highlight that the only request is to the highlighted yellow area off of Main and Charles. Those are the only areas. It's not the entire site that we're requesting that for. And it's just really necessary for the historic footprint. So in order to protect that building, it falls within the setback. And so we need to be able to protect it. So site drainage requirements will be met within the front footprint of the site. And as I mentioned before, all four of those weavers were you know, included in our first application. I just want to say thank you to the board, to the public, everyone here, to the partners. This has been a long time coming. I thought you saw that entire timeline, you know, of what it's taken to get this project here. So we are honored to be here again. I attended the Coconut Grove Playhouse as a child, and so it's an honor to be a steward again, and I'd like to thank our co-leasing, FIU, Gable Stage as our nonprofit organizer, MPA as our parking authority, Coconut Grove Bid, and the Knight Foundation who continue to support this. We have our architects and our attorneys here as well if you have any specific questions. So thank you so much for letting me share.

Thank you. Okay. So that's the end of the presentation? Thank you. Okay, great. Thank you. So we have a couple things we have to take up next. First, I think we have intervener.

Yes, there is a request for intervener status. And if you just, do you want me to go through, you know, what an intervener is?

What it is and how we will assess this request as a board.

Article 7 of Miami 21 does allow the request for an intervener. And an intervener is a person whose interests in the proceeding are adversely affected in a manner greater than those of the general public. So that's our definition, and that's the ultimate test, and I'll talk a little bit about what that means. If somebody is granted intervener status, they do have the opportunity to make a presentation, conduct cross-examination, and make final arguments in the order decided by the chair. So only the applicant, qualified intervener, staff, and this body are entitled to those things. The onus is on the requester to indicate why they qualify as an intervener and why their interests are adversely affected in a manner greater than the general public. A little bit of guidance, we typically rely on the case of Renard versus Dade County, which further defines standing as an individual having a definite interest in exceeding the general interest of the community shared in good with all citizens. And then some criteria that courts consider is the proximity of their property to the subject property, the character of the neighborhood, including any covenants, setback requirements, and the type of change that's being requested. And the fact that the person received notice as a part of the hearing is a consideration, but none of these alone entitle somebody to intervener status. It's really a case-by-case basis as to how this person is affected more than the general public. So with that said, I think it's appropriate to let the requester present evidence as to why their client is entitled to this. And typically, it's through testimony, evidence, documents, et cetera. And then, of course, it seems like the county may have an objection. So let them put on their case as well. And I'm here for any questions.

Okay. So as we go, just a ground rule, I think it would be fair if there are objections in either case, whether they're objecting and then they're arguing and then you want to object, let's just let everyone make their objections as they come up and we'll hear what they are and not talk over each other so that they're on the record clearly. Okay?

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for being here. David Winker. I live at 2222 Southwest 17th Street in the city of Miami. Thank you for your service. I was here last night with the HEP board until 1130 at night. And it always reminds me what you guys do and the service you do. So thank you. And thank you everyone for being here. I don't see, can I get my PowerPoint up? I have it plugged in.

You know, while you're getting that set up, I'm going to just, would you go ahead and also address the rules for Jennings disclosures so we can address that as well?

Yeah, of course. So if there are any members of the board that had any ex parte communications, meaning any communications with the county or any communications, even with the intervener in this case, if you would disclose that, just who you met with and generally what was spoken about, that would remove the presumption of prejudice and you'll be able to vote with no issues. So if any board members have had those communications, I guess now is the time to disclose. And while we're waiting, that goes for any application, not this one, any quasi-judicial application. I say it in the beginning in my statement, but just a reminder.

Real quick before we start, and then also when we're done with this portion, we're going to take a five-minute break, and then we will do public comment, okay?

Perfect. Thank you for the opportunity. Again, David Winker.

And that mic is not as hot.

I represent Preserve the West Grove. and a number of residents that live within 500 feet. They're here, and before I have them testify as to their right to be an intervener and the facts that support them being an intervener, I wanted to go through a few facts to give some context for what they're going to testify to. We had this trouble last night also. My residents are neighboring property owners who live behind and within 500 feet of the property. They are affected by what's happening here, which is the county converting civic space to, in effect, a shopping mall. They have a number of objections. I'm sorry. Do you need this to work? Yeah, I'd like to. I don't know why it's not.

All right, let's do five minutes now, and let's make sure that he can do his presentation. I don't want to have any issues with that. Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know what?

Thank you.

I would, please, I'm sure we're going to have a lot of public comment. This is your time that you are taking by not immediately sitting down and taking your seats. Yeah, exactly. We'd usually, like, play a terrible song or something. All right. But seriously, we got to get this started. Mr. Winker, do you have your presentation going? All right.

Ready to go.

All right. So can we just do sort of like a five minutes aside kind of thing? Is that going to work?

Yeah.

Okay. Limit it to five minutes at most, okay? So if you have, you know, points, let's... Yes.

So this first, Adam, this first five minutes will be focused on whether or not they're intervener.

Right. So they're going to present the case as to why they should be granted intervener status. Then we will vote on that. There's going to be an objection. That's going to be a little bit of a case against. Then we'll, I don't know, do we need to, is there a public comment on intervener status?

No. No.

Okay. So then we have to talk and ask questions to clarify if there's anything that needs clarification. We'll decide whether they're granted status. And then we'll do public comment, I think, on... The item itself. And then I think at the end, everybody gets to talk. If they're interveners, the interveners will get to have some arguments and stuff. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah. Okay. But we're going to limit this right now to five minutes aside. Okay.

All right. Great.

Let's go.

Jump right into it. David Winker. We're here. I represent residents who live within 500 feet of the proposed conversion of this site from civic space to a shopping mall. We're gonna raise a number of issues through this, beginning with the county is not the owner of this property. So we've got a unique case here where we are in a position that's very unusual. We have the county developing a commercial property. We're relying on the city to hold the county accountable and follow the rules. Obviously, they're here saying we'd like to get out of some of the rules. And one of the rules we're going to start with is, on your site, it says authorization to act is required if you're not the property owner. And you have to have a notarized hold harmless agreement. They don't have that. These are the kind of things that we are going to be bringing to the attention and dealing with. The city may not have required it because the county falsely states.

Mr. Winker, I want to stay precisely within the four corners of intervener. And I'll get to it.

Why are you an intervener? I just wanted to go through kind of the points that they're going to raise and how it affects them. We don't have time to do that. Right. Let's just. So I'm going to get right to who the interveners are. They're residents who live within 500 feet of the subject property. presented a picture. They're the people that live behind in the West Grove. Miami 21 provides that an intervener shall meet a person whose interest in the proceeding are adversely affected in a manner greater than those of the general public. The city of Miami has case law that it was involved with where it previously opined that an aggrieved party for standing and zoning matters was a resident that lived within 500 feet of the property to challenge the proposed action. My clients are ready to testify, and if you'd like, I can identify who they are. But my clients are here to testify as to the adverse effects that are unique to them. They have to do with traffic and transportation, noise and disturbance, environmental impacts, commercial activity, property and economic effects. They have an interest greater than the general public. This is a mall being put into their backyard where it previously was civic space. It's a big change and it's gonna affect them. Everything from traffic, to parking, to noise, to light, to hours of operation. In Florida Rock Property versus Kaiser, The court defined interveners, it's concluded, interveners live next door to subject property and the negative effects are specific to the interveners that are greater than the general interest in community well-being. Again, I'm happy to have them testify. I could bring perhaps a few of them to come testify as to those effects. So you'll have testimony on the record as to why they're uniquely affected. And I think I can do that within my five minutes if you'd like.

I think it would be reasonable to allow a representative that was very clearly within maybe the closest resident to the site or someone that's very close that... My name's Courtney Berrian.

I live at 3325 Charles Avenue. If it would be helpful, perhaps we could just have all the members of our group who are here raise their hands right now so you can see who is within 500 feet. Can you please raise your hand if you're a member of Preserve the West Grove and here tonight to speak?

Very specifically within 500 feet?

Residents within 500 feet, correct. Our organization consists only of residents who live within 500 feet. There are several other West Grove organizations that are here in support of us as well.

Understood, sure, sure. But we're just... So are you going to speak as to why you are adversely affected?

Yes, so... As our attorney stated, we're very concerned about the change from this property being a civic zone property with civic use to primarily a commercial property, whether it's the restaurant, the many, many thousands of square feet of commercial office space, or the storefronts. We're most concerned with the access that this property has to our streets. There is not a barrier to block the commercial activity that will be spilling over into our neighborhoods, even though there has been a barrier for decades. That will change. The commercial paseos, as they're called, the lack of traffic mitigation study, these are the things that we're very concerned about. So we're not here to stop theater. We're not here to stop the entire redevelopment. of the property. We're here to speak very specifically to the adverse effects that this development in its current form will have on neighbors living within 500 feet. And there are many that we are concerned about. We're concerned about our pets, our children, our tranquility of life. And we feel that these things could be very easily addressed without significant change to the county's plan, but we're asking that there be an agreement that's binding in place so that these things are on the record. And I think you'll find that what we have to ask is very reasonable.

Okay, thank you. We'll come back probably during public comment to discuss those types of things.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you very much. Well, we do object to the designation of intervener status, but let me tell you what we don't object to. We have no objection to Mr. Winker making a presentation. It's in the chair's discretion to allow individuals to have more latitude in speaking, and we want everyone here to be heard, and we have no problem with the presentation. It's just that intervener has a particular legal meaning, as your counsel has said, and we do not believe that on the facts presented, either the association or its members meet that. Particularly as to the testimony that you just heard and some of the things that Mr. Winker alluded to in his argument, we think those are mischaracterizations of the request themselves. The adverse effect has to be tied to actually what the project would do not to what someone believes it might do. And so we don't believe that the testimony lines up to that. So I won't belabor the point. I know you have a long evening, but we do want to preserve the objection to the granting of the intervener status with the understanding that we want everyone to speak.

Thank you. Mr. Winker, does something like that meet your aims for this hearing absolutely so i would like to get in a rear status but it's going to be limited to a presentation and then some latitude on my clients i don't have i will i'm not going to cross-examine anybody well okay so here's the thing if i don't i don't have an issue i don't know how the board feels but at least as far as being chair i don't have an issue considering how important the issue is uh that we're we're hearing giving you all the time you need to make a, at least concise, you know, we're not going to, but to get through a presentation. If you think there's maybe some extra stuff that you put in there that you could leave out, that'd be great, so that we could get to public comment and allow, even as I have in the past, some from the public who have some very specific salient points that can help us deliberate better and come back to them if we think it's going to help. and keep it moving that way, then we could abandon the intervener hearing at this point, if you'd like to withdraw that, and if that satisfies your... And I have a short, my presentation will be...

five-minute presentation, and then we can move right into public comment.

All right. So we are going to... You're withdrawing your request for intervener, and you're just going to give your presentation?

Well, I actually would like you guys to... I would like to get intervener status. Oh. But my participation, I'm proffering it's going to be limited to a presentation.

Now, that's different than what I was saying.

Okay. I mean, in my... My thoughts would be that you have intervener status, an extended presentation, and then members of the public can give their concise feedback and- You're saying if we granted it, then he could- Yeah, and then some latitude on the two minutes per individual. Right, that's what I'm saying. That's what we've done in the past.

If you, yes, okay, then that wasn't what it, okay. So let's all talk about intervener status. Does anybody want to start? Member Mann.

If the criteria is living within 500 feet and adversely affected, then we have to hear about the adverse effects, because obviously they live within 500 feet. When this first came before us, I think we deferred it back then. I think there was an issue with it. I think it was maybe in early 25. We heard from people that lived immediately behind this property, and they were pretty unhappy with the fact that they were now going to have retail stores right across the street from their homes. That's not what the Grove is supposed to be about. So I was pretty uncomfortable with that to start with. So I believe that intervener status It makes sense in this case because they're very obviously affected. So I would grant it. I would vote to grant it. I see.

I would be in support of it, limited to Mr. Winker solely, not every neighbor.

Yeah, that's actually a good point. I mean, who are we granting intervener status to?

The request is preserve the West Grove. So it is the association. Typically, one person would represent them, in this case, their attorney. And their attorney did indicate that the presentation would be limited in time. OK. I did want to point out, I know the 500 feet was mentioned. In case law and our code, it's not 500 feet. The case law does say proximity, and it also refers to those that receive notice. You might recall that We used to provide notice to properties within 500 feet. Now it's 300 feet. I'm not saying that, you know, 500 feet isn't reasonable. I'm just saying that, you know, the case law in our code does not refer to 500 feet. It just refers to proximity and those that receive notice.

Sure.

That's criteria.

And I'll clarify that when I brought up the 500 feet criteria, I was doing that just to get an understanding of who was sort of in the radius. But obviously, there are a number of cases, to be clear, there are a number of cases that define the outer and inner scope of intervener. So anyway, okay, so we're going to keep going down the line here.

I have a couple of questions. I guess my first question is roughly how many residents live within that 500 feet, 300 feet threshold? Do you know the number, Mr. Winker? The number of houses? Yes. Just say it out loud.

The circle is.

Mr. Chair, after this, may I just add one?

So based on our count, There are 50 residential properties within 500 feet, and there are 36 people here tonight that reside in those properties. There are 36 households.

Okay, and just to make it, to tighten the radius a little bit so that we can really talk about, you know, within the group that you represent, is there anyone here who is a budding neighbor, literally a budding neighbor?

have a budding here or across directly across the street okay so we have a few yeah and then a follow-up to that question so make sure that those resident collectively agree that you should be represent on their behalf all of those correct representing the associations and the individual residents that are the members of the association and then a follow-up question for staff. Wanted to know what work that you've done prior to now to kind of mitigate some of their concern, such as the ride share issue and things of that nature.

Oh, okay, this is a question to our county staff about the project. Okay, let me defer to Ms. Thomas on that point. Mr. Chair, could I just quickly say, on the associational point, your counsel has pointed out that the actual request that was submitted was for the Preserve the West Grove Association. And under the law, the standard is a little bit different than the individual members, right? So it's about an injury to that association. So again, I would just tender for the record the objection to granting that organization intervener status with the understanding that we don't mind if they present.

If I could, I do agree the standard is a little bit different for associations rather than individuals, and typically the association is the aggrieved party, right? So how that association is aggrieved rather than the individual members. Now, the individual members, I guess, could contribute to that association, aggrieved association, but it is a little bit of a different standard.

Right. When you say that, does that mean that typically it would be an association that would be a neighbor with an office next door or some kind of property interest, and that's why, so that they're an actual association? asking for intervener status because they are directly affected and that typically an individual or a few individuals would come in and ask for intervener status without the association layer?

Right, yes.

Does that?

Because in that case, the association would be aggrieved, right? So how is this particular association being aggrieved by this particular development?

I think, and just, I'm sorry, just to answer that question, so we, the request is on behalf of the association and its members. Right. And I'm happy to clear, like, we can make it. Right, one member. Anthony and Vince, that's easier.

Yeah, I think, I think for this, I think this will go easier if we just pick a person, say this person is asking for intervener status, because I did remember when you started the presentation, you said and its members. So if you're hedging or whatever. I'll buy that. So that's me, but anyway. Okay, next.

Thank you so much. So to the question about mitigating things like traffic. So yes, we did speak with the community on this. So we're working closely with the MPA to work on geofencing for Uber. This was a question that came up, Uber rides to stop it coming into commercial or residential intrusion. for traffic. That waiver to expand our entrance into the highway, into our parking lot, allows us to move traffic on and off of Main Highway and make sure that the road doesn't get congested, we can get the cars in. And I want to remind people, because I talked about noise, it's a theater. So it's not a club, it's not a mall, there's a number of boutiques that will be there, but the theater usually finishes by 11, 10 p.m. depending on the length of the show. And so things will be wound down way before the midnight hour. In that case, another example of this, the community, I actually attended the meeting and they asked about office spaces facing their residential space because the original design in our garage had office spaces facing it. And based on their feedback, office space has now been moved to main highway and that liner just covers the backside. So they're not looking at an ugly, excuse me, MPA would never make anything ugly. But they would not be looking at a parking garage, but it'll have the liner. We are listening to community. We are taking input. We would love to meet with them more, but we end up in a little bit of litigation with that particular group. But as soon as we complete any litigation, we're happy to continue receiving any community input that they may have.

Thank you. So I actually quite like the way the gentleman from the county stated that there is an opportunity for a lot of public exchange and public comment, but this issue of an intervener status does add a layer of a legal wrinkle that I'm not sure that we would want for a project that has had so many years of public engagement and we've heard the county say that they are considering and well more than just considering but taking into account the neighborhood feedback and so as such I just want to state that an intervener status at this particular point in time just seems counter to the the ability of this project to continue to be revised improved and move ahead thank you through the chair may I

Yes, please. I'm in support of an intervener status. I think that what we're seeing here is that the association is made up of residents. So what we're seeing here is a representative. As I understand it, I'm not a legal person. That's not my background. But as I understand it, it's a representative, a person that speaks on behalf of the community and that represents them. So I don't see why... we should oppose it, or I would.

Point of clarification, Mr. Chair. Is this for this proceeding or is it for throughout if we vote for them to be of that status?

We have to decide before we really get into public comment and then make vote on the actual item.

I think I can answer his question. Oh, sorry. I think his question was, does intervener carry on through city commission and court? The decision for intervener is only for this hearing. This is a final decision hearing. It is appealable to city commission. So it is only for this hearing. Now, could somebody use the decision of this board and the reasons as support for intervener at another stage or standing at another stage? Yes, but it is limited to this hearing. And you know, also this is the final decision. So anything is appealable de novo to city commission.

Then point of clarification, we've stated very clearly that everyone here would be able to state their concerns. I'm not sure why we have to have a legal layer on top of that when we're able to hear their concerns, give the feedback, and continue to move ahead with the item.

If I may, Chair.

I tend to agree with our board member here that having additional legal framework here in front of this board is It's not necessary. We've heard the comments. We understand who he's representing and what is being presented to the board. I don't think we need to bog ourselves down in potential kind of litigation findings and other unnecessary bureaucracy.

Mr.

Chair, my only possible concern, I do understand we will allow the public to have a comment, but they only have one comment. If this truly impacts them, I just want to make sure that they have the ability to possibly speak maybe more than just here.

Okay, well that's a good point too. I think if it's about today, I've already stated that we will make sure that all novel points that are topic whatever we're discussing will be heard we can we can ask the public additional questions we'll give a little leeway I think you know the the counter because I my intuition like some of my fellow board members would be to say that the houses directly behind the sort of expanded idea of what this site will be moving on into the future could be considered interveners because they would be impacted. The, you know, some of the criteria from some of the cases about types of change, I took, you know, I'm just looking at my notes, but you know, the types of changes and things like that. You know, I've been here for a number of these hearings. The, you know, Member Bailey, the timeline should tell you that everyone has been engaged for a long period of time. On one hand, I think as many people might not have shown up if they felt that you know, and this is in favor of intervener, if they felt that they were heard along the way, there might not be as many people here is what is going through my mind. Um, On the other hand, seeing substantial changes to the project and some of these requests, I understand there could be skepticism about this, but hearing what we hear all the time on the board, I see where the genesis of some of these requests could come from changes that were made from adapting some of the recommendations from neighbors that they felt I guess could be made part of the project in other words I'm not sure how much more after, what is it, 15, 20 years of conversation, is going to get adopted. You know, sort of like the beginning of the end here for this project. The rear of the building's been demolished. Construction's going to start. And, you know, so I understand why. And to me, it's persuasive that the amount of people that are here still to show up want to be heard. But I'm not clear... IF THERE WAS NOBODY HERE APPLYING FOR INTERVENER STATUS, I STILL BELIEVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BE HERE SHOWING UP, HAVING SOMETHING TO SAY AND THAT WE WOULD DEFINITELY TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY POINTS MADE THAT AND ACTUALLY FACILITATE CONVERSATIONS HERE ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE OF HOW public we want to make sure this process is like you know it's one thing for the for the public to come in and say we haven't been heard or we have been heard and for the applicants to come in and say well we adopted everything they said and it's a totally different thing to have someone here say look we really asked for this thing and you guys to say well yeah you did but we can't do it because of this it's just that's never gonna happen and at least we as the board can hear that there's a reason it's never gonna happen Or, oh yeah, that was an oversight. We could actually take this back one more time to the architects and planners and whatever, or change this or add more of this. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what anybody wants to, yeah.

Yeah, so I feel like I'm hearing enthusiastic support to, we'll stay here as late as we need to stay here. We'll hear everyone. I think that's what I'm hearing from the board and so I think we're at a point of making a motion to deny intervener status and accept all the public comments that need to come from the community. So that's the motion.

Motion, is there a second? There's a motion and a second. So this is a motion to deny.

Through the Chair, before I could vote on that, I'd like to know what benefit would the intervener receive if we granted him that status? Because if it doesn't go beyond this board today, what does he gain today? Can somebody from staff tell me that?

So the benefit of an intervener status during this hearing is that they have the ability to present, cross-examine, present evidence, and they're considered a party. Going forward, because an appeal is de novo, that doesn't necessarily carry on to city commission or to court, and it can be challenged at city commission, it can be challenged in court, Insofar as they do get benefits in this meeting, they don't necessarily carry on. Like I said before, I guess somebody could use the comments and the decision here as support for or against intervener status, but the decision to city commission, I'm sorry, the appeal to city commission is de novo. It's which basically means you consider everything anew. Any new evidence, you reconsider the entire thing.

So would you agree that if he has to appeal it, if this has to be appealed to the commission, would the group seeking intervener status have a stronger position at commission having been granted intervener status here at this level or not? Would it make no difference at all?

Not necessarily because it's de novo. It's a totally new decision. New hearing, new everything, even on...

So there'd be no benefit carrying forward? Mr. Chair, can... Sorry.

To the extent that the commissioners individually... their minds could consider it to the extent that mr winker if he's there and was granted at this year and wanted to get up and say that we were granted in the at pzap that he could and the commission could entertain it because the whole idea of the de novo review is that the commission gets to just kind of hear everything again they could also re-grant Or they could just consider the weight of the granting from the prior hearing and not want to do, but still not want to give intervener status. Basically say the same thing that some people are saying here, which is, look, we'll hear you. We'll hear everybody. But we're just not going to do that hearing, and we're not going to.

Well, thank you. I just feel that particularly the people abutting this property, they're going to be looking at quite a big garage and stores and a lot more traffic. They should have all the protections that we can give them.

Okay, so we have a motion and a second. Go ahead.

I was going to say something along the lines that you said, Mr. Chair, just that there may be, you know, having established it here, you know, that may be an argument that someone would use in a future proceeding, whether before the City Commission or in court, and... So it's a legal objection. Again, we don't object to anyone having the rights to present in as much time as this board is willing to give them.

Thank you. Okay.

I'd like to make an amendment to the motion. At the very end of the conclusion of all the public comments, we allow Mr. Winker to just go and present one more time if there's any other additional information. Yeah.

The amendment's accepted. And the seconder? The seconder, does he agree with that amendment?

So we have a motion in a second.

I'm sorry. Calling member Lynette Cardoche. Thank you. Calling member Joshua Patinkin.

Yes, in favor of denial.

Thank you. Calling member Chris Collins. Yes. Thank you. Calling Maria Paula De Corrales. No. Thank you. Calling member Eduardo Fernandez.

Yes.

Thank you. Calling member Paul Mann. No.

No.

Thank you. Calling member Elon Mottoyer. Yes. Thank you. Calling Chair Adam Gersten.

Yes.

Thank you. And also calling member Mario Bailey. Yes. I do apologize. Sorry, sir. Okay, this passes by a vote of seven to two.

Okay, so Mr. Winker, would you please make your, do you want to make your presentation now?

That'd be great. Yeah, okay, go ahead. Great, thank you so much, everybody. Appreciate your time and consideration. I've got a five-minute presentation, and we'll turn it over to public comment. Great.

Thank you.

I think it's important to have the context for this. There's a saying, you can't fight City Hall, and this is a unique circumstance. Who's here, who we're fighting at City Hall, is the county. It's a government entity engaging in a commercial exercise. They want to convert this property into what we call a shopping mall. Cocoa Walk 2. And that raises a number of concerns that we're going to go through. One of the concerns is it's always been an interesting fact about this is the county doesn't own the playhouse. The playhouse is owned by the state of Florida. They're just a lessee. And so one of the procedural issues that I have is that the city is requires that, we call it a power of attorney in layman's terms, but you can't just show up as a lessee of a property. You have to, as a lessee, have the owner's permission, usually in the form of an authorization to act and a hold harmless signed by the owner. They don't have that. So I wanted to put that on the records. that the city has not complied with its own rules in requiring them to get that owner's authorization. Part of the reason is, you can see on the screen, in its application, the county does not put the owner. They say they're the owner. That's not an accurate statement, obviously. The nature of the appeal, especially affected neighbors, a challenge of approval waivers and exceptions we're requesting that the decision of the city be reversed the county is asking for waivers to increase lot coverage 50 percent to 62 percent reduce required green space from 30 percent to 14.9 cutting green space in half very upset about that increased driveway width from 10 foot to 30 foot again We find that offensive. Allow pavement in front of setbacks to increase from 30% to 100%. The four exceptions are asking to take civic space and allow office and commercial use of that space. It should remain civic space. Sorry, I'm passing the... My clients will go through the adverse effects. You're going to find that there's no competent substantial evidence to support, there's no factual support to conclude the conclusory findings that the city made approving this. Why do I say that? Let's start with the traffic study. Article 7, Section 7.1.26 provides, and a traffic study shall be provided as required by the planning director. You're going to hear a lot. This is going to affect this neighborhood terribly. And for some reason, the planning director says i've reviewed it and no traffic studies required i can't remember the last time i was involved in something of this scale where there wasn't a traffic study there's no hardship this is a self-created condition of their own design reasonable development is possible the fact that they want to make more money right which is again weird to say the county wants to maximize profit that's not hardship A further example is section 7.1.26 before where this is from the staff report. The review shall consider the manner in which the proposed use will operate given the specific location and proximity to less intense uses. The city concludes that It needs to be open to the back. You're going to hear residents saying they don't want that. They don't want this commercial activity feeding into their neighborhood. You're going to hear them talk about how they've been fighting intrusion onto Charles Avenue of commercial activity. And here's their own county bringing this back, putting this back in, not listening to what they want, which is a barrier to stop this from happening. These activities, these commercial activities are out of scale with the neighboring property and it undermines the character. Again, you're going to hear them talk about traffic and transportation, noise and disturbance, environmental impacts, commercial activity, affecting their quality of life and the property and economic effects. What they're asking for exceeds the minimum necessary requirements, which is what's set forth in the purposes section of the intent section of Miami 21. This is multiple compounded deviations. Again, the city has failed to apply the proper criteria and does not provide the findings. You're going to hear neighborhood objections, and we ask that you say no to the increased lot coverage, no to the reduced green space, no to the increased driveway, and no to the impervious, impermeable pavement that goes along with this. And we don't want the retail. The retail is being mischaracterized as, oh, we want to have a few gift shops like it used to have. This is major. You're going to hear the numbers. It's a major amount of retail space, bars, restaurants that's going to affect these neighbors. And we would ask that you deny that and make them go back to the drawing board. And then the last thing you're going to hear is there has been no outreach. There has been no input. There has been no effort to listen to this community to incorporate their concerns. You're going to hear it from the residents themselves. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Okay. We're going to, for now, just keep it at two minutes as it normally is per person. No, no, no. For the public comments, right? And then we'll see where we are once we're done with that.

Go ahead. Me? Okay. Good evening, board members. Elvis Cruz, 631 Northeast 57th Street. I've seen this movie many times before. Rather than design their project to fit the rules, the developer wants you to bend the rules to fit their project. What is especially troubling about this situation is that the development here is the government. Not even the government wants to follow government rules. Rather than asking for exceptions and waivers to the law, the county should be setting a good example by complying with the law. The new addition is ultra-modern boxitecture that is incongruent and incompatible with the historic architecture of the Playhouse. Please do not allow the exceptions and waivers. Lastly, I find it deeply disturbing that our county government objected to and actively opposed our city residents having intervener status in this process. Intervener status should be automatically determined by objective criteria, not a mini trial within a public hearing and a discretionary subjective decision. Denying intervener status here was essentially a denial of due process. You spent a half hour to turn down the interveners. It's very easy to deny legal standing as long as it's someone else's legal standing. Thank you.

How about a voice? I'm sorry.

Good afternoon. Anthony Vince Aguirre from 3325 Charles Avenue. I'm one of the board members of Preserve with West Grove, and so with your permission, I was asked to frame the discussion for the residents living within 500 feet. It might be a little bit more than two minutes, but they've asked me to present an overview of the organization's concerns, and then we'll hear more briefly from residents contesting their concerns. Would that be okay?

Yeah, as long as it's different than what Mr. Winker presented.

Yes, it is. So thanks again, Anthony Vinceguerra and Charles Avenue. I think as we all know, West Coconut Grove is one of the most historic communities in the state of Florida. It's the first area where people of African descent could own their own property in the state of Florida. It's for that reason that Charles Avenue was designated a historic street by the city of Miami. These Bahamian residents, many who have family representatives here today, helped build Coconut Grove, helped build the first village in the city of Miami. That's why the city of Miami designated West Coconut Grove as a neighborhood conservation district, an NCD2, and as the city says in its own documents, to preserve the incomparable legacy of the Afro-Bahamian residents. This is a really important community. It's for this reason that there's all sorts of protections, architectural guidelines, other restrictions about development in Village West because of its importance. This is a really important community. There is design guidelines. There's restoration of some of the historic houses. This is my house. It was one of the first homes built in the community. Wikipedia has a whole site about the conch houses in Village West. However, unfortunately, There's a context here. Village West has been getting demolished step by step. The historic homes have been taken out, and despite the fact that they're not allowed by law, there's been sugar cubes replacing them in places like Charles Avenue, even though they're not supposed to be allowed. There's been years of people in Village West speaking out against this, about the gentrification and the destruction of this historic community. That's a really important context for the discussion we're having today. When the Playhouse was presented, it's in the context of ongoing commercial encroachment in Village West. It's a T3R residential community. However, first of all, the house itself was turned commercial. There was seven lots in Village West turned commercial for a hotel. There's been lots on Thomas Avenue that have been turned commercial. There's other lots farther down in Thomas, current commercial. There's a commercial in the center of the community. And now another major development with commercial encroachment going right into Village West. This is just really important context for why people are so upset about this. We all know this center grove is extremely expensive, but that doesn't mean that this historic residential community needs to be commercialized too. Moving ahead, I'll move quickly through this. These are all T3R residential properties. These are the people that are in our organization who formed the organization specifically so we could challenge this commercial encroachment. And this would be commercialization directly abutting our properties. These are the designs that we've seen. This is the most recent plan that went before you today. And this is what the commercial will look like. This is opening directly onto Charles Avenue, one of the most historic streets of African descent in the city of Miami. There's no traffic planned presented. However, the own designs show the increased traffic. This is a commercial paseo opening directly onto Williams Avenue, a residential community that does not want commercial stores and restaurants opening directly into them. The city says that this is reuniting Village West, but residency, this is just exploiting Village West to get more commercial frontage. That's the truth. These are the drawings, again, This is commercialization of a historically residential community, opening directly onto it. Historically, Village West was segregated. We all know that by barbed wire. But you don't make it right by shoving commercial into a quiet residential community. That's the fact. And so we really don't believe this commercial encroachment into our historic community is what is just or is what's the best use of a public publicly owned civic zone property. That's the context for everyone being here today and why we're so upset. We've been working on this for years. Even the Charles Ave historic marker, the marker showing the first street where people of African descent could own property in the state of Florida has been taken down by the city. The garbage entrance is placed where the Charles Ave historic marker is. This shows you the level of concern that's been shown to the historic community. And there's no clear indication in the plans for it being restored or any of the other history in the community. We've had to deal with garbage blowing down our street. This is just one video of what we see happening. in the demolition process. This is what we've been experiencing so far. That's a family with waste from the playhouse running down historic Charles Avenue as they walk down by it. These are the construction trucks that have been parking on Charles Avenue, a historically designated thoroughfare in one of the oldest black communities in the state of Florida, upping down our street during the demolition process. We've repeatedly reached out to the city to address this issue, no response. Can you imagine why we're worried about traffic? This is just up to date. Parking heavy machinery on this heavy street has been happening during just the demolition process with no response from the city. We've been doing everything we can to engage the county in this matter. We've got emails going back three years with no meaningful engagement from the county in these concerns. We all know that this development is not by right. It takes an exception to put this kind of commercial on a publicly owned, civic-owned property, particularly one that abuts such a historic community. This is not development by right, this is development only by exception. And we have concerns, like Mr. Winker explained, I won't go through this, belabor the point, but first of all, the first issue, the city says this is proper use of a commercial property. It is over 35,000 square feet of commercial 21,000 square foot theater. 35,000 square feet of commercial is a higher number than 21,000 square foot theater. It's primarily commercial, is the truth. That's improper, we believe, on a publicly owned property without serious mitigation for the neighborhood next to it. Miami 21 says the Civic Zone property needs to be primarily for cultural purposes. But again, the proposal puts more commercial space than even there's space for the theater. Secondly, no traffic mitigation plan. Mr. Wink already brought this up. We think it's unfathomable that this is going ahead without a study or without serious mitigation for the construction process and the operations of the theater. We find that totally unacceptable and shocking that the city even got to this point. Thirdly, the city claims that they've made worked with the community to address our concerns. That's absolutely not true. We've been very clear that the community wants a coral-lined, tree-lined barrier to protect it from this. Across from the playhouse, in front of Camp Biscayne Abitare, we all know, we had some friends from Camp Biscayne here earlier, there's a beautiful coral wall with beautiful trees protecting that T3R property from the commercialization of Main Highway. Why can't Village West have the same? That's all we're asking for, for protection. Finally, integration with the community. This is a criteria for you to say yes to this, that it's integrating with the nature of the community. There's been little to no work with the community to integrate with the historic elements of Village West, and no benefits for the community. We do not know how the city can claim that this integrates with the local community when even the historic markers have been taken down with no plan for them being restored. So how can this be possible, and how can an exemption be granted without addressing these concerns? So I'll tell you very quickly, and I'll end here, we've worked for years on this. Every major West Coconut Grove organization is represented here today. representing not only residents within 500 feet, but all of Village West, the churches, the residents, historic community organizations, and we are unified in this issue. We'll be presenting to you position statements from every organization, and we're calling on just these five changes that we believe can be addressed and reasonable. First of all, no commercial intrusion into Village West and a focus on cultural uses. We want a tree-lined, coral barrier protecting Village West from the commercial intrusion. We think that's reasonable, just like is offered to Camp Biscayne and Apatara and Main Highway. Second of all, a clear traffic mitigation plan. We think this is so reasonable and how is it going ahead without that is shocking to us. Third of all, This building historically was segregated. There should be benefits for Village West residents. There should be hiring priorities for Village West, which is possible and has happened on other county-run projects to support Village West residents, along with opportunities for Village West businesses to access those commercial spaces at lower rents. Finally, access for historic Village West churches, discount prices. Programs for youth. It's very unclear. None of that is spelled out clearly in this proposal as it stands. And finally, integration with the historic landmarks. As I said, Charles Avenue is one of the most historic streets in the state of Florida. There is no plan for this connecting. If you go to the Broward Playhouse... If anyone's been there, you know it's connected also to historic community. There's beautiful walking paths. There's historic markers. Why is the oldest black community in the state of Florida not valued in the same way? That's really the core question. Not only is there no integration, there's no plan presented. And we've been asking this for years with no changes. We believe these minor things could be given, keeping with the plans, I will wrap up here. This is just a small sampling of the petitions in red. These are residents who have all signed on to objecting the plan as it stands. This is the letter, which we'll present to you in a minute, signed by the major Village West community organizations. And we just really ask you, please, to vote no on this until these concerns are met. They're reasonable, and we think Peter can return to Village West, but not until these concerns are met. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Yes, please.

Good evening. I'm Mark Abrams. I'm a resident of Coconut Grove, 2811 South Bayshore Drive. I'm surrounded by construction towers and density issues year by year since I moved here six years ago. And I'm also vice chair of the Board of Gables stage. We are one of the three legs in this master development project. We are the theater and we are the entity that is obligated to serve the public. And let's take a step back for a second. I'm happy to hear micro local concerns. They all deserve consideration. But this body, just like Gable Stage, is obligated to the public in general. And that obligation requires us to consider things other than local neighborhood concerns. Coconut Grove has been a cultural desert for almost 20 years now. I've been watching proceedings before this body since I moved here six years ago. I was here in March of 2023 when the House of Cards was yet again knocked down over micro issues, then dealing with historic preservation, now it's the local neighborhoods, even a smaller group of people. But the common good that we are obligated to serve as a not-for-profit, Just as you are, as the supervisors of zoning in this city, and just like Miami-Dade County is, with respect to three and a half to four million people, requires us to look at what is actually happening here, and not recharacterize it falsely as a commercial development. We all need parking in Coconut Grove. There's nowhere to park. Has anyone noticed that? When I moved here, the garage at Pan American Drive right next to this building opened and it was a massive benefit for me. $100 a month to park and walk to my condominium and not the $500 I was paying in New York City. And is that a commercial development because my drugstore is there? Because a gym is there? No, it's a public purpose use, just like this garage. Now, I need a little more time because everyone's been over this bell. You know what?

I'm sorry. Sorry, sorry. Can I just give me a second here? Give me a second. He represents... I am a pretty nice... Part of this conversation, and I gave someone else a lot of extra time. He's asking for a little extra time. I'm going to give it to him. Please.

May I pose a question? Is there a certain amount of extra time?

Well, whoever that last fellow was, I'll take it.

Here's what I'd like to make clear. For right now, we had someone representing an organization, another person representing an organization, another person representing an organization. For the individuals, we're going to keep it at two minutes for now. As I mentioned at the top of the meeting, I will come back to folks with questions or ask you for clarification. The main thing is we like what happened after this presentation, which was a very clear presentation, even though it was long. was that we were able to get five points, five things, five things that are requests from the county and the city, something that we can discuss when we have to vote. So the goal here is, yes, everyone should be heard. I want everyone to be heard. We all want everyone to be heard, but we also eventually are gonna have to vote on something. And so the sooner you can get us to the thing you are asking for specifically, We move on to the next person, and then we have a whole list of stuff that we get to talk about that's easy to talk about. Well, hard to decide, but easy to talk about. So that's the goal. I'm going to give him his time, and we're going to try to keep it at two minutes, unless you are representing an entire organization, which in this case... Yes.

Thank you. Chair, could he just repeat the organization he was with? I couldn't hear.

Gable Stage. I am vice chairman of the board of trustees. Gable Stage. The appointed operator of the theater to be relocated from Carl Gables to Coconut Grove to bring theater back. to this neighborhood. So the public benefit that we are obligated to extend goes to the West Grove, goes to the Central Grove, goes to the North Grove, goes to the City of Miami, goes to the county, and goes to the tri-county area. We produce award-winning productions that provoke thoughtful conversations, connect people together, and we also provide education that goes well beyond Coconut Grove. We have, in partnership with FIU, 6,500 children in our public schools are exposed to William Shakespeare plays every year, and that will scale to 15,000 when we move to space that can accommodate better educational facilities. There will be not just a theater, there will be a community space for education for all residents, local and beyond 33133. That's our mission. We exist to perform that mission because we are a not-for-profit. We are purpose-built to lose money. We lose a ton of money on everything we do each year. These plays cost a lot of money, overhead costs a lot of money, we charge the public what we can, but for the largesse and generosity of our donor base, foundations like the Knight Foundation, grants that come from Miami-Dade County, we would not exist to provide these cultural amenities. We would not exist for a minute. So we also are in hospitals now. There are two major children's hospitals in this county that are public, Jackson Holtz and Nicholas. For the last several months, troubadours from Gable Stage and puppeteers have visited oncological floors of these hospitals to bring some laughter and joy to the children of this county. So when we consider the public good, we can't just zoom in on a 500-foot radius and say, yet again, there is gonna be another stumbling block to a project that will certainly die on the vine. By suffocation, if we cannot move forward and generate some momentum after 15 years, we were earmarked as the resident theater company for this location 2011, the garage profits are earmarked for the benefit of our operations. The retail spaces in the record, both the county and the city, are incidental to the primary uses which are public parking and theatrical education and entertainment. Those are the points that have to be weighed heavily in the matrix when you think about what's going on here. Thank you. But this cannot go on any longer without some progress.

Understood, thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you. One last thing. I launched a petition. 10 days ago that has now garnered close to 3,000 signatures from Miami-Dade County residents. 300, sorry. And more will be coming. And there are people in attendance today who are in full support of what we're doing here. Would you please just stand up briefly? Thank you. Because you're being drowned out by an organized group of people. Okay, thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Chair, we're going to submit this into the record.

Sounds great. Thank you so much.

Go ahead. Am I good? You'll be happy to know I only have two minutes. Debbie Jolson, 4205 Lenox Drive, Coconut Grove. Please, please do not approve these exceptions and waivers enabling construction at the Playhouse without meaningful dialogue with West Grove constituents. I have significant concerns about the Playhouse traffic pattern that has not yet been clearly outlined to prevent intrusion into the neighborhoods. Uncontrolled Charles Avenue will become a cut-through street for traffic around the Playhouse. I'm sorry, not everybody's gonna be exiting on Main Highway. Cars searching for a quick exit and Ubers will clog the roadways. William and Thomas will be used as pickup and drop-off points. I'm a volunteer at the Coconut Grove Crisis Food Pantry located at Historic Christ Episcopal Church on William Avenue. It's two blocks away from the Playhouse. It's 125 years old this year. Our pantry serves 230 households in Coconut Grove, many of whom walk or ride bikes to our doors to collect bags of groceries. Some are elderly, some are unhoused, and all deserve safe streets. During the winter months, our clients who come to our community dinners arrive and depart in the dark with low visibility. So please do not approve these exceptions and waivers, allowing the continued work on the Playhouse without meaningful community input on this topic and others from residents, property owners, tenants, churches, and community organizations like ours in West Grove. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening. I'm Rod Stusen. I'm the chair of Gable Stage. I've been on the board for over 20 years. I've been at every one of these meetings, and we are really trying. I think I really feel bad for Miami in the sense that we have a lot of problems with traffic, and we have problems with building. But that doesn't make the Gable stage and the county's plan for a historical revival of the Grove bad. We are trying to solve these problems. We're looking at brick and mortar, and I'm sorry about that, but what about mines? Think of all the kids we've lost. The West Grove, we would have had programs for these kids. We're opening up to our theater to them. We want them to come into the pocket park. We want to do outdoor programs. I have grandchildren, none of whom have been at the Gable stage. I mean, I'm sorry, the Coconut Grove Playhouse. I was there as a young girl. the extra things we're doing, they're for me, and they're for you, because I'm getting old. I've been here so many years. I can't walk up a bad staircase. I can't walk through a cobblestone street. I have to be able to have, as my husband's in a wheelchair now, my friends are in walkers, we have to have wide pathways so we can get to the theater. Those are our rights, too, as human beings who live in a, aging in a community that we've already grown up in. We want to have the theater. We need these things. Our children need these things. And I just think we have to look at the big picture. I don't want to hurt anybody, but I want to do the common good, and I want to bring education, and I want to bring theater back to the Grove. When I was a young woman in 1975, Equus was at the Grove. I walked through the streets. I could see candle shops. I could see art. I could see painters. I could smell the paint. It was an excitement. It was a vibe. We're not going to be commercial. We're putting in a few little things. The 1926, the building was just like this. We're in the same footprint of the 1926. And people are forgetting that. Thank you. I hope you will consider our needs.

Thank you. Thank you. Let's just, the clapping takes time. Let's go.

Yes. John Dolson, 4205 Lenox Drive, Covenant Grove, Florida. Who are you going to believe? Me or your own eyes? This is not just a playhouse. This is a playhouse that is turned into an open mall. And I think what the, David Winker has talked about it here, is absolutely applicable. We're not talking about not having a playhouse. You're getting that. We're talking about accommodating the neighbors who are frustrated with a lack of a traffic plan, with the no-good plan for keeping a through street through Charles. At the very least, you should have a wall of trees that separates Village West from this open mall. And thank you, Paul Mann, for having the courtesy and the common sense to say that the residents within 500 feet here and David Winker should have an intervener status. This is not about denying an opera house. This is about fixing something the community wants. So one last thing I heard, we're gonna have the, The green space slashed by 50% so that we can have more green space. I heard that from the county lawyer. Who do you believe? Be your own eyes and your ears.

Thank you.

My name is Barbara Lang. I live 3901 Berganza Avenue in Coconut Grove. I'm here to urge you not to approve commercial property on that. It's basically a cocoa walk. and it's going to be competing with the other property owners and the other businesses in Coconut Grove, and I think that's very unfair for a civic property to do that. I think what, first of all, the county's been a deplorable steward of the property and the playhouse, and it should be a playhouse. It should be educational play, and it should be a parking garage, and green space, and there should be protection for people in the West Grove. And I hope with all my heart that you do protect the people and deny the commercial property for the county. Thank you.

Good evening.

Chair, may we close on line public comment?

Yes.

Thank you.

Good evening. Reynolds Martin, 3325 Percival Avenue. I'm the president of Grove Rights and Community Equity. It's a group of organizations in Coconut Grove, including the churches and some of the other organizations like Optimist and Homeowners and Tennis Association, where I am the vice president of that. And I want you to know that there has not been meaningful community engagement We have sat with the office of Regalado and we've submitted some of the same things that you have heard here today. We have not gotten a response. We're looking for meaningful community engagement so that we can have an environment that's conducive to our kids and our neighborhoods so that we can have the same thing that you guys want for your families. I would ask that you deny this application and send them back to the community so that we can have some engagement and we can come back here As a group of people that support this thing, that's going to be something beautiful for our community. Thank you.

Good evening, my name is Shannon Fenn and I live within 500 feet of the playhouse at 3334 Charles Ave. I'm a Miami native and I'm particularly concerned about the commercial intrusion and lack of clear traffic plan or study taking place for the playhouse construction. I believe at the minimum, a tree line barrier with a coral wall, closely equating to the coral wall on the east side of main highway, like for the neighborhood, is what the village west should also be provided with. This accompanied with a clear traffic plan are my main concerns. These are not outlandish asks of the community, or the city, excuse me. And I believe with open communication that has not yet taken place, they could be set in motion for this community. At the end of the day, it is the residents who live in Charles, William, and Thomas who will be most closely affected by the commercial development on this civic zone. While I wish the full historic playhouse could be restored, I understand a balance must take place. So I hope the city will take our words into consideration and partner with us to ensure a proper development that balances the economic needs of the city with the desires of the West Grove community. I understand this was previously approved, but I hope you'll take the opportunity to slow down and have the city work with the community more to accommodate these rational requests, specifically the traffic study and plan. I'm asking you to vote no on PZ1 until these concerns are met. Please protect the residents of the historic West Coconut Grove. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Margaret Mosheuk. I live at 3271 Thomas Avenue. I live within 500 feet of the Playhouse and Commercial Development that will open directly onto Thomas Avenue. There are many risks and downsides to our situation. First, traffic and noise pollution. Increased traffic from customers, delivery trucks, trash trucks will create noise and congestion, disrupting our quiet neighborhood atmosphere. It is likely that our neighborhood will become a popular Uber drop-off and pick-up location as the Grove in general is already very congested. The construction phase of the development will involve dust, heavy machinery noise, and many construction vehicles entering and exiting through our neighborhood. My husband and I are very active and walk our dogs multiple times a day. I want to feel safe walking down my street. There needs to be a traffic plan in place. Also, we will most definitely face increased issues with trash, loitering, vandalism, and crime as the commercial space will attract more outsiders to our area. Again, there needs to be a plan in place so the residents of these neighborhoods feel safe and comfortable in our homes. A clear and very fair resolution, in my opinion, is creating a barrier that separates our neighborhood from the commercial space, keeping us safe from additional foot and vehicle traffic. These are my main concerns, and I ask the board members to take into consideration how this commercial development will impact the quality of our daily lives, and I'm asking a vote no on PZ1 until these concerns are met. Please protect the residents of historic West Grove. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Laura Nottenkemper. Apologies for the baby. It's past his bedtime, so he doesn't want to go to dad. I live on 3300 Charles Avenue. That's within 300 feet of the playhouse. You've heard a lot of speak from our neighborhood association all about how we have all these concerns. I want to speak a little bit differently to the fact that Organization was formed a few years ago when there is a proposed hotel property on Charles Avenue. So we felt the need to form as a group so that we could work together with the city to try and get contentions to that property to make the residents happy. The reason I bring that up is because we were able to work really well with the city to get things in place that made the residents really happy, diverting traffic towards Main Highway so that it was only a one-way direction, not coming onto Charles Avenue, fair labor for the residents of the West Grove, different contentions that are similar to what we're working for right now. I bring that up again to say that we worked really well with the city and we are very willing to compromise. We're a group that just has concerns about the neighborhood that we love so much and we want to work together to make it work and also to bring theater back. We're not opposed to theater. I think that's seeming to be villainized right now that we're a group that's saying like, no education, no playhouse, you know, no theater at all, when that's really not the case. Like, we all want the theater too. One of the things that we're bringing up is that we want the community to be able to participate in the theater. So that's the main point I'm trying to make is, you know, we have all these concerns, and at a very minimum, I think a traffic study is not out of the question. I think community involvement is not out of the question, and our asks are very reasonable, and if you're willing to compromise with us, we're very reasonably willing to compromise with you. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Good evening. Thank you for hearing us. I'm the resident that looks directly at the Playhouse at 3211 Thomas Avenue. We have brought up issues with traffic, with valet drivers driving the wrong way up and down the alley at high speeds, trash trucks parking in the streets. There's no clear plan as to where and when deliveries should be made. Additionally, there's actually no sidewalk right now that goes from the parking lot. And I've sent multiple emails to commissioners. They said it's a county problem. I've followed up. Children walk along Main Highway. And so we have children that park in the parking lot and walk in the street on Main Highway. I'm just pointing these out as these are our communication over the past year and a half in that we feel like these could be easily addressed issues that we could have valets not driving the wrong direction. We could have better assistance with the traffic protocol. So we have a lot of concerns with retail opening up into our properties with noise violations. I had a bar open up illegally in my backyard last year, and the city did come shut that down. But these are situations where they get taken advantage of. We would very much like the theater there, very much like the open space. And I do not think the city of Miami should reduce the requirement for the green space. We've lost a lot of old trees. I work with a lot of architects. I'm an arborist. and we have a serious decrease in green space in the West Grove. This is an opportunity to rectify some of that loss of green space and to put some of the large trees that may need to be moved into this area. Thank you for addressing our concerns.

Good evening. My name is Shelby Sladen and I live within 500 feet of the Coconut Grove Playhouse at 3334 Charles Avenue. I've lived in Miami my whole life and I've seen dramatically how much our city has changed in recent years, especially in the Grove. I'm here today because I'm concerned about the proposed redevelopment of the Playhouse property. As outlined, this plan would introduce the significant commercial activity into the Village West. This is a major shift from the civic and cultural designation of the property. My primary concerns are the lack of a clear traffic plan and the lack of a barrier between the neighborhood and this property. On Charles Avenue every day, the other side of the street is also completely bookended by construction and it's really difficult to even get out of the street and go onto Main Avenue or back into the Village West neighborhood. I am in support of a theater in the future, but I think that our concerns should be met. And the residents closest to this development deserve to be heard and informed of the ongoing developments. I'm asking you to vote no on PZ1 until these concerns are met. Please preserve the West Grove. Thank you.

Next, please.

Good evening. My name is and I reside at 3240 Thomas Avenue. After 55 years of life dream, I moved to Coconut Grove because Coconut Grove was a serene property I have ever heard and I couldn't move. But now I'm able to move and I'm here and I'm delighted. But unfortunately, it's commercial property coming behind my backyard. It should be something else we should build where every community can use it and we get together instead of commercial. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Alexandra and I live on Charles Avenue within 500 feet of the Playhouse. I also dreamed of moving to the Grove my whole life. I grew up not far from here in Shenandoah. I love my neighborhood. I walk around here all the time. This issue has really brought my community together over these concerns that we've agreed upon. I think that the idea that the county has brought up of saying that we somehow we want to build this wall to separate us as if it's somehow like to bring segregation back is deeply offensive when the Members of our community who have lived here for multiple generations have very strongly stated that they want these barriers in place in order to make our quality of life better, not to stop us from attending the Playhouse. You could literally walk around and get there. I literally walked here today. The fact that there's no traffic study done with a project of this size is just deeply irresponsible. It would stop commercial intrusion from our neighborhood. It would make a complete change to our neighborhood as it exists right now to go forth with the plans in place. And yeah, I'm asking to vote no on PZ1 until our concerns are met. Please protect the residents of historic Coconut Grove.

Thank you.

Good evening, my name is Mamie Armbruster. I reside at 3260 Thomas Avenue, and I am a member of Preserve the Quest Grove. I'm gonna come to you at a different angle. I'm not gonna be redundant. I'm coming to you as a homeowner. When we bought that property, it was a quiet, tranquil community.

Don't take it away, please.

We live there. Children are on the street. They can't play outside because of the traffic coming in and out.

It is an intrusion of our privacy.

I want to sit on the porch, dust up and down. We have homeowners. We have rights. Please preserve our rights as homeowners. Do not force the project in our community we welcome the playhouse it's beneficial it's in in the paseo it's beautiful the green space but do not intrude in our community that is our home when we come home from work we want to sit down and relax watch the kids go outside and play and you are forcing i feel your community your project into our backyard and so on thomas avenue it's going to be a park or drive off, more traffic, increase vandalism. We don't need that. We have young kids, we have elderly on our street. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes.

My name is Gloriana Calhoun. I live nearby at 3665 Park Lane. I hope somebody from the state of Florida is listening, because this project is just plain wrong. No matter how many band-aids you put on it for the neighborhood, it's wrong. It's wrong for the space, it's wrong for the community, it's not inclusive, it doesn't do anything to preserve the history of the West Grove. I urge the state to take the property back. Yes, go back to the drawing board. I know everybody wants something done right now, but it's the wrong thing, and it's wrong for the neighbors. And even if they put up the beautiful coral rock wall, the service entrance is still on Charles. The traffic is a problem. The neighborhood does not work well with this project. So please, state of Florida, take it back. The county has violated every single law from the illegal demolition right up to right where we are now. I beg of you, and please vote no. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Christopher Hudson. I'm here on behalf of an organization here in the Coconut Grove West Area. The organization is the Coconut Grove Minister Alliance. We represent the Coconut Grove residents. We are made up of pastors from various churches in the Grove, and we're here to speak against the intrusion into this area. I like the young man's presentation, but they say it's minor. There's nothing minor about this intrusion. It will create noise. It will create traffic. It will create... Dump trucks coming through trash trucks coming through early morning and they don't have a time on when this will be happening When they will be coming through, you know that trash pick up sometime is 4 a.m. 5 a.m So it would be a great intrusion on the homeowners in this area particularly on Charles Williams and Thomas I looked at the whole neighborhood and And all these residents deserve respect. Now, you have to think about it. What if this was coming into your neighborhood? Would you allow it? Would you want these trash trucks coming down your street? Would you want these dump trucks coming down your street? Would you want your neighborhood protected from sound, noise, and light? And as we know, Cocoa Walk does not close at midnight. I've been there at three in the morning and it's party time at 3 in the morning. So we don't want party time on our back street. I noticed on his slide that he showed the entrance into it, but he never showed the exit to it, which means that walk area will lead right into that neighborhood. I noticed on that slide they never showed the exits. It always shows the entrance, nice entrance, nice wall, nice people sitting on the sidewalk, nice walkway, but never the entrance into the neighborhood.

Why is that? Thank you very much.

Max Pearl, 4000 Towerside Terrace. I was appointed by the Pinecrest Mayor to be chairman of the Banyan Bowl Committee at Pinecrest Gardens, where we created a theater. I produced and directed plays there. And I was also appointed to be the chairman of the steering committee done by AMS to do a feasibility study to put the theater at Pinecrest Gardens. AMS was also the firm that was used to create this feasibility study. It's voluminous, it's much too large for me to make copies and distribute to you. If there was somehow I could enter it into the minutes, I think it would address a lot of the problems. This was 2008. Coconut Grove Playhouse Charette Study, done by the county. They started to get their paws on this almost 20 years ago. They didn't sign the lease and get control, managerial control over it until 2013. So, we flip open to It says that, we were talking about community involvement and lack of participation. They knew almost 20 years ago, and I know about steering committees as I said. and you're getting involved with the community. And the community said, and it's written in this very expensive, probably $100,000 to get this feasibility study done by our tax dollars. And it says, this is gonna be a theater. They recommended AMS feasibility consultant, Michelle Walter, calls for the current theater to become a 600 to 900 seat main theater. Okay, I know we're past that point now, but just to show you how long this has been going on, and we can't say that we've lacked, we haven't heard what the community wants. They steered this, okay? This was supposed to go before the HEP Board, before it came to this point. The county is misleading you by saying that the 267 review was complied with. Mr. Kirtley is on the record saying that they don't need the state's review. And he completely did a 180 degree turn and now he's going to tell you that absolutely we complied with the review. It's all on the record. You can see the photos. I created a Facebook page in 2009 called Save the Coconut Grove Playhouse. You go to the top of that scroll of the current postings, you'll see what they claimed to you today was that the architectural elements were gonna be preserved. You go right now to my Facebook page, Save the Coconut Grove Playhouse, the blog that I've had since 2009, you'll see what the protection they did to those architectural elements. They're broken, shattered into pieces, and thrown on the top of a mountain of the demolished playhouse.

Thank you.

Hi, my name's Paul Dean Jackson. I'm a descendant of the Stirrup family, but I'm not representing the Stirrups today, just myself. I'm within 500 feet of the playhouse, and shame on all of you who voted for no-intervenience status.

I mean, what the heck, man?

We'll appeal that. Anyway, give you a little history here of the Grove, you know? I mean, the guy from the playhouse, it's not the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. We matter. So I want to thank the parking authority for giving us restrictive residential parking on Williams. It's changed our lives. We're like, don't have all those people, the drunks and the trash. And now you're going to open up this... Section, but I'm all over the place. Let me just say we all want different things But the bottom line is when I moved here I looked up at the playhouse and I saw a fence lined with razor wire that looked like a prison and was that razor wire to keep the cars protected no is to keep us the African Americans out of your neighborhood across the street is a really beautiful pristine wall of where you protect that neighborhood. Now, basically, we're asking for basically the same thing. Give us that pristine wall. Give us a little protection. We know we can't stop the playhouse. We've wanted this for a while. But we just don't want you to intrude on our neighborhood. And we do have intervener status, and we will get that. But the bottom line is, we want respect. We want exclusivity, like the people across the street. We want livability. We want peace. We also like that green space. So please, reconsider this, listen to what everyone has to say, and come back with a plan that's going to, like, please us all. I know you can't please all the people all the time, but, you know, inter-Vita status would be a good start. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mitchell Beerman. I actually live within 500 feet of the current Gable Stage Playhouse, which is in the Biltmore Hotel. I consider it to be a huge enhancement to my residential area of Coral Gables. I also consider the commercial uses of the Biltmore Hotel to be an enhancement and a resource to me and my family, and they have been for more than 20 years. What I think is missing from the conversation is the recognition that what makes Miami special, what attracts the most talented and gifted people from around the world to come here and work and start businesses and bring their talents to Miami is that we have something different than every other city in Florida. Every city in Florida, every coastal city has sunshine and beaches. and every city has low taxes because Florida has very low taxes and all that attracts people. But what makes Miami special is that we have this. We have playhouses, we have the Arsh Center, we have the PAM, we have the Frost, we have culture. Culture like the great cities of Europe. And this is the oldest thing, the oldest cultural resource in our community is the Coconut Grove Playhouse. It plays a very unique role in the history of American theater. The first US premiere of Beckett's Waiting for Godot was the first play to open when it became a live playhouse. Albie and Tennessee Williams premiered their plays here before they went to Broadway. My own cousin's husband premiered his play Miami Lights here, one of the last plays to play at the Playhouse. And we're bringing that back, but the only way we can do that is for you to approve this application now. It just can't wait any longer. It's waited too long. That theater has been dark for too long. We have had I personally have been to a dozen public meetings where there has been public input shared. I've seen this plan revised dozens of times in response to the public needs. It's happening and it needs to happen now. I thank you for your attention. Thank you.

Good evening, Chair. I'd like to propose a friendly resolution that we move this meeting to Flanagan's for the rest of the evening. Billy Corbin, I have a very long history with this theater. My children will be the fourth generation in my family to hopefully attend theater at the Coconut Grove Playhouse. My grandparents, Jerome and Rita Cohen, attended opening night of Waiting for Godot. That was the American premiere of that masterpiece in 1956 at the Coconut Grove Playhouse. I spent nearly the first three decades of my life going to theater there, including 40 years after that, the world premiere of Jimmy Buffett's Don't Stop the Carnival. And I would love to see theater there. My grandfather, at the turn of this past century, was on the board of the Coconut Grove Playhouse the first time that they got control from the state of the property in order to try and reopen the theater. And that was even before it was closed. They were just trying to remodel it. He was a big fan of Joe Adler, the late, great Joe Adler at Gable Stage. I would love to see theater back there again. So I don't want to participate in this straw man about this is not about preventing theater from being in the Grove. It needs to come back, and the sooner, the better. I would like to say, however... make these three points. I really wish that with the exception of the preserved portion of the building, that it wasn't so ugly. It looks like an office park. I mean, Arctectonica was not sending their best when they designed this project, but I think that ship sailed. I believe you are the penultimate stop. I'm taking a pragmatic approach here to the approval of this project, and I'd like to make just three important points. One, I think you should vote no on all of the waivers tonight. Let's start there. Let them, you know, they have their plan, but these waivers are absurd. I was never, you know, I never did that, their book learning, but the learned council here from the county would have you believe that 14.9% is more green space than 30%. That's not, I don't think how that works. I didn't bring my iAbacus app, but I don't think that that's how that works. So we need more green space, not less green space here. Don't turn the Grove into Brickell in downtown Miami, please, okay? More trees, not more pavement, more cement and more brick, because that's what these waivers are asking for. Second, I would ask, I'm seriously concerned about the condition of the facade. We've already had a construction accident. I'm getting carpal tunnel here with these air quotes. A construction accident that led to a partial collapse of the existing structure. Right now it's being held up by chopsticks. I think for those of us who remember Lincoln Road, the sitai, where they've been holding up these facades and walls that have collapsed overnight by accident, I think that there should be some sort of provision or amendment that says that in the event that the facade or the original building falls, they must rebuild it exactly the way it is. It's currently the most beautiful part of the existing design. And finally, I don't think the neighbors are asking that many unreasonable demands. I think the aesthetically pleasing coral wall, I think a clear traffic mitigation plan, employment and fair wages for Village West, and most importantly, not just Gable Stage, but access to the historic Village West churches and organizations to have a for them to have access to the theater and the facilities as well. And I do want to say that I watched you guys with the density issue a meeting or two ago, and I watched the way you guys handled it. I thought it was outstanding, the communication back and forth with the community. And I think that these are reasonable asks that you guys can probably, in a similar fashion to that meeting on that item, create a resolution that, remember, you had a bunch of Grovites leave here happy. I've never seen that many Grovites happy at the same time, at the same place. So thank you again. Good night.

Good evening, my name is Mia D'Orazio and I stand here tonight not just as a resident within 500 feet of the Playhouse, but as someone who deeply loves and believes in the future of Coconut Grove. The topic today is not just another development project, it is land that carries history, culture, memory, and identity. Village West and Little Bahamas were built by generations of black Bahamian families, who created a vibrant, resilient community long before Coconut Grove became what it is today. We have a responsibility to honor that legacy, not pave over it in the name of progress. Development should uplift a community, not conveniently push it out. Right now, our residents are active victims of gentrification. We are being asked to trust promises without guarantees, but our community deserves more than vague commitments. We deserve protections clearly written into the plan itself. We need firm protections against commercial intrusion into West Grove, real traffic solutions shaped by residents, and economic opportunities that directly benefit our community. We also need guaranteed inclusion for the historic churches and organizations that have held this neighborhood together, along with meaningful preservation of the cultural identity and landmarks of Village West and Little Bahamas. Because once a community loses its identity, once longtime residents are displaced, once history is erased, you can't get it back. Tonight, you each have the power to choose protection over pressure, partnership over promises, and community over convenience. The step in the right direction is voting no on PZ1 until each of our concerns are met. Thank you.

Thank you. I live on 3326 Charles Avenue, and I've been hearing a lot about, excuse me, about the traffic going down Charles Avenue. And it's real bad now. And right now, from going on, this traffic I see is going to get really worse than it is now. And I live in a residential area, sir, and it's 40 miles an hour coming down that street there. And I call the street a drag strip, you know, because how fast cars be coming down Charles Avenue. Even if we got speed bumps now, look like they measure the speed bumps and still come down to Charles Avenue fast. And they say it's 40 miles an hour. And look like they'd be coming down the street 50 or 60 miles an hour. And that's not a safe place for like kids or whoever. It might be, you know, coming out the yard. You know what I'm saying? And I'd just like to say thank you, sir. Thank you.

Hi, how's it going? 3411 Charles Avenue. That puts me within 500 feet of the Playhouse. I come to you as a simple educator. I come to you as somebody who loves this community. I volunteer every Saturday at the food bank that's on Grand Ave. I'm going to simply ask you guys to just say no to the gentrification that is happening in this neighborhood. Paul Mann, Maria Carolas, thank you guys for your vote. For the rest of the board, please vote no. Please stand with us as residents of West Grove. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, board members. Thank you very much for your time. My name is Edward Martos, office is at 2800 Ponsonville Boulevard. I'm here on behalf of Gable Stage. And I want to emphasize some facts. There's a lot of passion going along. I think at the end of the day, you have a hard choice to make. There are good points on either side. So I just want to bring home to you key points. First, there's been a lot of confusion as to what is being proposed with respect to commercial uses. You've been hearing a lot that this is going to be a commercial mall, that this is going to be a huge impact in a commercial sense. The reality is in front of you in your staff reports on pages six to seven, the staff has laid out for you the square footage of each use. And what you'll see is that the proposal is for 2,636 square feet of retail. and 3,780 square feet of food and beverage for a total of 6,416 square feet, okay? Earlier in the evening, you heard a claim that the majority of the space would be commercial. They generated that number by looking at office space. If you look at the office space provided, it is 28,000 square feet, 28,016 square feet to be specific. And you will ask yourself, That sounds commercial, 28,000 square feet. That is going to be occupied almost exclusively by Gables Stage for its operations. And as you heard from one of our speakers earlier tonight, Gables Stage has a lot of educational programming, lots of office needs, frankly. And while classrooms and the like haven't been called out, they've been grouped up as office as well, I would posit that those are not The kind of nonprofit work that Gable Stage performs and that is done to produce theater is not the kind of commercial use that you're hearing about. So I want to be very clear on that. There is a very sharp distinction between office space for a nonprofit that brings in the community, that works with a lot of children, and educates, than commercial use. I'll be very brief on my next points. Miami 21 requires an exception for every single use that is zoned civic. You cannot do a single thing in a civic zone without coming to this board. So I want that perspective to be clear because the word exception sounds like they're asking for something special. The truth is, is everyone for anything needs an exception if you are zoned civic use. And finally, I want to bring home a legal point, which is that the standard that controls your review tonight, because this is a quasi-judicial proceeding, is competent substantial evidence. And under Florida law, competent substantial evidence means non-speculative facts and information. You can't simply speculate that traffic will be increased because you think it's going to be increased. You have to base it on some analysis, some facts. You can't assume that noise is going to be a huge burden simply because you feel or you think it's going to be a burden. You have to have some competent, substantial basis for that conclusion. So as you make your decision tonight, I want you to keep those key facts and that key law in mind. Everything needs an exception. Competent substantial evidence is your guide star. And the facts are clear. The commercial space provided is nominal. Finally, with respect to competent substantial evidence, you have it in front of you. The courts have consistently held that a staff report like the one that you have from your competent staff at the city's planning department, at the zoning department, does serve as competent, substantial evidence, and it points in only one direction. Thank you.

Please approve. Thank you.

Good evening, members of the board. Mark Burns, Executive Director of the Coconut Grove Business Improvement District. In the bid, we represent over 200 folios and property owners in Coconut Grove, and countless more business owners and employees and things like that that are You know, their welfare is in Coconut Grove. This property has been blighted for, I've been with the city and worked in government since 2013, and this has been blighted since I've been here. My company has had $3 million earmarked for a parking garage in this property since about 2013, 2014. But this is what makes Coconut Grove special, right? The people, they fight. They fight for what they feel is right. And I love it here. This is the greatest neighborhood in the city of Miami. But I think the time to fight is over with. It's time to see something. come here. I'm super excited about what's to come in Coconut Grove because Coconut Grove is a very special place and it's on the uptick. And this is one of the blighted areas right here. Just this one little square block where this beautiful historic theater used to be. And we need to bring something back. Again, like the last gentleman reiterated, This isn't a mall. It's a few thousand square feet of retail. It's got an office liner, really so you're not looking at a, not disgusting, sorry, but a parking garage, right? You're looking at an office building as opposed to a parking garage. And it's ancillary revenue. the Playhouse failed in its original day because it didn't make enough money. Now we've reduced the size of the theater so that it can be more community focused, so that kids that go to elementary school can have their plays there and you can come and have it be more of a community theater. And people from the West Grove, and people from all these playwrights, these new up and coming playwrights, up and coming directors that want to get their shot. And they're going to have a theater where they can go and hone their craft. So I implore you, vote yes to all these changes today, and thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Marie Mahalik, I live at 3250 Charles Avenue. I live across the street from the Playhouse. When I moved to the house in 1999, the Playhouse was still operating. And at that time, it was in all civic use. I don't remember parking or traffic being such an issue. But as we all know, it's a different world today. And adding a commercial use to that it would be irresponsible to not do any sort of traffic study to see how it could be controlled, how it could be improved, and to keep the residents of Charles Avenue and the rest of the West Grove area safe. Charles Avenue is always used as a staging area. It already is with the demolition. As the photograph showed very helpfully, it's always a staging area to offload very heavy equipment. It's a lining area for cement trucks waiting to work on the site. It's not fair that that's the location of the loading area and the staging area and everything during construction, and I can only imagine it after the commercial and playhouse property is operational. So I think it needs to be studied and needs to be improved and helped so we could preserve the historic West Grove area safely. Thank you.

Good evening, board members. I'm an alum here, some of you may remember. I also was the chair of the HEP board in 2005, that's 21 years ago when the playoffs was unanimously voted to be historic. Here we are again, I don't envy you for the decisions coming up. But I do agree that the Playhouse, this is an exception. The Playhouse is in the CI zone. CI is part of Miami 21. So the question that I've researched a little bit on, and I hand it out to you, is how is, How is it treated under Miami 21 and who gets to do that? Who's on first? And I submit to you that it shouldn't be you guys, it should be the HEP Board. And actually the beginning presentation that the county made really made my point. When they're starting to talk about the color of the tiles and the landscaping, the HEP Board has architects, it has landscape architects, that has all the expertise, and not to say that you guys aren't expert, but that is not your field. And I will point out though, and what I handed out, you all know Chapter 23 called Historic Preservation. And what I want you particularly, what I'm gonna dwell on right now, is where the code says shall, not may. Because there's lots of mays, you know, in Miami 21, it's always talking about you may do this or may not. But when the code says shall, Section 2361 says, designated property shall be permitted to be prepared. And then later on it says, such uses as private clubs, restaurants, or shall be permissible only within existing structures that are individually designated. It goes on to say, and it shall be permissible in any case where it's been partially or destroyed or beyond repair, that what's gonna be required is a, Certificate of appropriateness. This board does not do certificates of appropriateness. Only the HEP board does certificates of appropriateness, because they consider all the architectural details and the landscaping details. So I'll wrap this up, because I know it's getting late. But if you read chapter 23, it's really clear that they are in charge, not the PSAB. even though there is some overlap. And then if you get to chapter 62 in the immunity code, it says specifically that the HEP board is authorized to create the certificate of appropriateness for any exceptions or waivers or exclusions. That's their purview, not yours. And they're the ones who have the expertise to come up with a reasonable solution. So let's get to the solutions. which I know the Chair is looking for, and I'll be really brief about that. You've already had four or five suggestions from Mr. Vincent Guerra on behalf of the Homeowners Association. I think that should be, whatever you decide, those should be some of your conditions for this. The other condition that I strongly suggest to you is that you make it a condition that whatever you decide tonight goes before the HEP Board for their opinion, for their resolution, for their certificate of appropriateness, which is mandated under chapter 62. So those suggestions plus having the HEP Board finally get involved with this, which they've requested, by the way, they've requested for the final plans for the county to be presented back to the HEP Board. Once they bless it with your input, This problem will go away. The court, the legal proceedings that I envision will continue on for another five or 20 years will end. You'll finally get a resolution and this thing can be put to bed forever with the blessings of the neighborhoods and with the blessings of the county and the city and all the other people who want good theater to return to the city of Miami. It's your solution. Pass it or not, with conditions that have already been presented to you, and get it back to the HEP Board. They're waiting for it. They asked for it, and the county refused to go. So that's my suggestion to you. Thank you very much. I'm sorry I went over time.

Thank you.

Good evening. Chris Barolotto, 3752 Kumquat Avenue, here this evening representing the Coconut Grove Village Council. All of the residents, the constituents with whom we've interacted love Gables Stage, love the educational programs, and want to see the theater opened again as soon as possible. However, the residents in the West Grove make extremely reasonable requests that could be dealt with relatively quickly, in my estimation, and should be considered by this board. I would add the green space issue is a hot item in the city of Miami right now. There are chats blowing up. There are letters going to the mayor and the city commission about the lack of green space. This is an opportunity, as was presented earlier, to rectify the issue of green space. I urge this board, as well as perhaps the HEP board, as my colleague pointed out, to consider this waiver request of reducing down to 14.9% green space very carefully and the message that sends. I think there's an opportunity here to increase green space, to plant not just 122 trees, but some large specimen native trees on this property that provide shading. I point out some of the retail space adjacent to the parking garage. This was not retail space that was part of the original playhouse. And perhaps some of that space could be slated as green space and the pocket park could be improved a little bit more. I think all of this could be accomplished relatively quickly. Keep the project on base and give us the theater as soon as possible and get the great educational programs of Gable Stage into the group. Thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon, board. My name is David, Pastor David Dingell. I'm the pastor of the United Christian Church of Christ, which is at 3288 Charles Avenue, which is about 300 or less feet from the playhouse. And I also stay on... 3370 Williams Avenue, which is a little further down. And you have already heard the concerns of the people from our neighborhood, which is true. We do already have problems with the parking. I know at my house on Williams Avenue, When I come home in the evening, I can't park right now. So there definitely needs to be a traffic study. Then as far as the church-wise, Charles Avenue is so big. It's a small street and two-lane highway, so nobody really parks on the side except when you go way down the street. But we definitely, definitely need to do something about the... with the new construction. The Playhouse has been there for a long time. So have my building, my church, rather. It used to be the Oddfellas Hall. They built it over 100 plus years ago, and we still have it. My father purchased it about in 1952, and we still have the church there now, which is on Charles. We just have the concerns of the intrusion in the traffic study. We know that you can just do just a little bit of concerns. You heard the concerns. Just push them through if you can. And if you can't, We know what the grove, the grove, I love the grove. I was born and raised in the grove. And I'm going to stay in the grove as long as I can. And it seems like to me, everybody here really loves Coconut Grove. So if you would be so kind to just vote no on this issue. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Well, praise the Lord, our Savior, who is the Christ named Jesus before his birth. My name is Williams Armbrister, and amen to every one of his children at the sound of my voice at this time. I'm just going to, I'm a board member of the organization Preserve the West Grove, and Charles Avenue is barely wide enough for two vehicles to pass as it currently is. And it's a shortcut for traffic. And then Thomas Avenue is being bombarded already by the businesses on Commodore Plaza with service trucks and things of that nature. And Williams Avenue is being bombarded also with people who are willing to take an opportunity to get a ticket to park there. So we don't want It's not fair for us. Like Bay Heights, you know, Bay Heights, the community that has the wall as you approach I-95. It used to be I've been here long enough to know. See, I don't have to read about Coconut Grove. I've lived in Coconut Grove for 75 years. And there used to be a four-foot fence from 27th Avenue all the way down to South Miami Avenue. A four-foot fence. And so what they did with the Metrorail and all the traffic noise from US 1, they decided to protect that community from all the trucks and the traffic and the Metrorail. And they put that, I think it's a 12, 15 foot wall there to protect that Bay Heights community. And we're asking for identical protection is all we're asking for. We're not saying don't build a playhouse because anyone with common sense would go ahead, knock it all down and build something that this community is deserving of and make it look like the playhouse. And so I'm asking that you do not agree to this idea PC1 until they can demonstrate that they care about the community their development will have a negative impact on. with the dump trucks and the dust and all hours of operation. And if they ever open, they're not going to shut it down at midnight. They're going to have little bands out there, little whatever they will, behind that wall, hopefully. They're doing that now. Like my neighbor said, they opened up a bar behind her house today. And I know when they purchased that house, all of that wasn't going on in the neighborhood. So you should not approve this. Demonstrate your level of maturity to understand that you need to know more about what you might agree on before you agree on it. You know, like my wife and I, we've demonstrated our level of maturity because we took four years of dating before we now have 48 years of marriage. You know, you want to check these things out for yourself. Before you make a long-term decision on someone else's behalf, make sure you're making a responsible decision on your own behalf. In the name of Jesus, I greet you all, and amen. Thank you.

Good evening. Courtney Berrien, 3325 Charles Avenue. I think I am the last person from our organization to speak other than when our attorney gets to speak a second time. So I want to really thank you all for giving us the time and the respect to really be heard tonight. And I think what you've seen here is the reality of our community. We're families. We care about what will happen with traffic on our street, with commercial intrusion. We like theater, right? It's not correct to to paint us as an organization that is anti-theater. I think you also see a little bit of how we have felt that this development project has approached our community. We've been called blighted. It's been implied that we are inconveniently in the way of people that want to go to theater. And I would like to remind everyone that we're really asking just for five reasonable things. I would also like everyone to know that we have read the county's application very, very carefully. We are not here to proffer misinformation. or to spread rumors. There is a lot of rental office space in the parking garage that will absolutely lead to increased commercial activity. And that is just one of the things that we've been talking about tonight that is not just something that we're pulling out of the air. You've heard us talk about how we feel under attack as a community from commercial developments that are all around us. irony to us is that in this case our own government is the developer and when we have worked with private developers in the area and when they have been granted permission to develop we've received a binding community benefits agreement from them that would address many of the similar concerns that we are expressing tonight and And for some reason, when the developer here is our own county, our own government, we are not, we're just told just to trust them, go along with it. We're asking for a binding agreement or that this be written into the plans. So no commercial intrusion into our communities, please. We would like a beautiful wall, the same as other wealthy communities have surrounding us. We would like a clear traffic study. We are wanting a study to know what happens with traffic and the traffic plan that accompanies that. We're asking for fair employment and wages for Village West, access to the cultural organizations in our community to this cultural campus, and that bringing in of the cultural and historic legacy of the community through signage and other means into this property. I have to share with you a position statement that's signed by our organization, Preserve the West Grove, as well as the Grove Ministerial Alliance. They were here tonight representing all of the communities of faith and churches in historic Village West. Also, Homeowners and Tenants Association, HOTA, has signed. You heard before from the Grove Village Council and also Grace that is here to argue and protect our community in favor of affordable housing. So I'll share this with you. This is one of the only times, if not the only time that I know of since I've lived in this community for about 20 years, that all of these organizations have come together in agreement on this issue. So I really thank you again for listening to us tonight. And I'd like to share these with you. Do I do that over here? Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Okay. So as promised, we're going to give the county some time and kind of see where that goes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to everyone who spoke on both sides tonight. We appreciate hearing from everyone. I just want to make three points, and then I would like our staff to elaborate on some more of the technical aspects in response to what has been said. First of all, regarding the ownership of the property that was alluded to by Mr. Winker, this is a state of Florida property. As many of you may know, we are under a long-term lease, a 50-year lease with, I think, two 25-year term extensions, so up to 100 years. And when that lease was approved, it was pursuant to a business plan, which we were obligated to pursue. And this is, you know, this is part of that effort. And the city is aware of that. In regards to the green space, I just wanted to make sure that my statement earlier was clearly understood, which is, yes, I realize that the 30% required is more than the 14 we're asking for. But my point was simply that historically on the property, there was not much green space. And what we're endeavoring to put there now is much more green space than has been there. And yes, it does not meet the requirement of the 30%. We recognize that. That's why we're requesting the waiver. But we're trying to accommodate as much green space as we can, while also accommodating everything else within this footprint. Last thing on the HEP board comment. We did get HEP approval for this project in 2019. That was what we were litigating when our previous approval here expired. We have that HEP board approval, and the reason that the plan is so substantially similar to the original one is because it's really important to us that we stay within the scope of that plan. Going back to HEP is a recipe for the spin cycle. We cannot be going back to this board, back to HEP, back to this board, back to HEP. We've got to get this done. And we want to stay within the scope of what we previously had approved. And so that has also guided a lot of the decisions that have been made with this particular application. And we would just ask the board to be sensitive to that. And with that, I would like the director to speak and then perhaps also our architects to answer some technical questions.

Hi, thank you all so much. And thank you to the public for coming out to voice your concerns. And so we did meet with Commissioner Regalado. We had a webinar to talk about these five community benefits. So I just kind of want to address that. And I also just want to address, you know, it was said, you know, for civic use, a part of the lease that the state has with the county is that the theater must self-sustain itself. So a part of our requirement with our lease with the state is that the project does not become a burden to the state, and that is in response to, in 2004, the Coconut Grove Playhouse fell into bankruptcy, and the property fell into neglect, and the county worked to pay for all the liens that were on the property, and to bring the property back to a state that could actually be constructed, reconstructed and renovated, and worked with the community on this plan. Feels like the county made this plan in a vacuum, but this plan was with community input. Hundreds of hours of community input. It's been two decades, just about. So the plan that got approved in 2018 that continues to go forth was made with the community. The community has changed, and you can see maybe some of the people who were in that very beginning of historic West Grove. look very different. That first group said no wall, you know, and I said this in a community meeting with Anthony and Courtney, another, if we put that wall there, another 70 people will come out and say, this is not the plan that we approved. And so we have a lot of competing priorities that we have to look at. The architect is going to talk to, um, uh, the traffic that was talked about on Charles Avenue and how we have a curb cut so that it doesn't go into the residential space. The part of Charles Avenue that's impacted, there's a hotel and a bank, and we move into the space. But our architect will show you exactly that. He'll show you exactly how much of the square footage of retail will be there. And I just do want to clarify to the point that the office space, it's rentable space. It's a revenue portion that is needed. So just to clarify, it's not all for Gable Stage, and he can speak to that as well. So I just wanted to just to clarify that. And then just to those community points. So no commercial intrusion. Again, my architect will show you where that tree lining in is how we've mitigated for commercial intrusion of that service area onto Charles. A clear traffic mitigation plan. So in 2018, we did have a traffic plan completed and it was approved by the city. So that plan has been completed. If needed as a condition for an update, we're happy to discuss that. These approvals, and I just remind everyone here in the public that the approval of these exceptions and waivers allows us to go to the permitting process. This is not a go-ahead carte blanche and do whatever you want. We still have to, as we've done over and over, go through rigorous processes of permitting, review, and approvals. But in order for us to build what needs to be built to support theater revenue, to support public parking, a gentleman spoke about too much parking on his residential street right now. that public parking, that garage is going to alleviate some of that. So the sooner we get to those permits, the sooner we can help resolve some of those challenges. So to the five points, so it was commercial intrusion, and we'll talk to that. The wall, again, like we can talk about that. Again, we have HEP board requirements. So in the event that it does not trigger anything to help, we can talk about what that condition could look like. But I want to reiterate to the board that this plan and the community said they wanted access, they didn't want segregation to continue in the way in which it had. And so that backside of the Coconut Grove Playhouse would not be facing that. They would have access through the public park and through those public walk spaces. And so that speaks to that. that portion of it, fair business and equal opportunity. So the nonprofit will be managing, Gable Stage is the nonprofit that will be managing the operating space. There's always a contemplation about hiring local. That's something that we do in Miami-Dade County. I'll say like that there will be reasonable effort to promote job openings within the local community. Commissioner Regalado did speak to this at our webinar last week. but within the extent of what we can do within the law. So there are some practices within the law that we have to be permitted about hiring. We can't exclude anyone from opportunities or make it exclusive to one group or the other. That's not allowable by law. But we will work with the community, as stated in the webinar. So we did address this. We did address access to the historic Village West churches using the theater. The idea is that the local community will use the theater. The nonprofit is operating the space. They work right now with local schools. When the garage is built, there is a theater education center that's connected to the garage that allows them to take all of that programming that they're taking into the schools and allow the students to utilize the space for those educational programs that are already actively happening in this space. And so the last thing I want to say here is there are many competing priorities. And the county has had to address all of those competing priorities for this project over a long time. The community may feel like the county is not communicating, but the project has been in litigation over and over again. with some of the people who spoke tonight so it ties our hands in a way where we want to have community meetings and share but it's used to build a case against the county even so much so the webinar that we had their new request from that group that is outside of the scope of what public benefit is and the last part i'll say because it goes is the county um making a public benefit. We do see that. Parking as a benefit. I'm happy to hear that people want theater as a thespian. I'm happy that people want theater to be there. And the food and beverage is for people who are going to the theater. The boutique retail space, which our architect will speak to the amount of space, you'll see that it is not a mall, you know, will provide those revenues needed for the theater. And the office spaces, again, allow us to make our commitment to the state, which said, hey, this project cannot become a burden to the taxpayer again. it cannot see bankruptcy again. And so these are the ways that we've been able to really solve some of those challenges and priorities. And so I'll just have Alejandro come, and we'd like to just show a slide, so it'll give you just an idea of what the project looks like from those spaces. We're willing and open to work with the community, and we continue to be that, so thank you so much.

Good evening, Alejandro Gonzalez of Arquitectonica. And we got the 2900 Oak Avenue, so we're here in the Grove as well, just a few hundred feet away from the Playhouse. This is in our neighborhood. We're good. I just wanted to cover a few of the issues we've been hearing this evening and just show you how these have been implemented in the plan and what they actually reflect. So we've been hearing a lot of comment about the areas. So just to be very clear, and this is what's been submitted to the city and documented and previously approved. So you can see here the theater makes up about 30,000 square feet. I'm rounding these numbers, but 28,172. The parking structure is about 114,000 square feet. So these two functions here make the bulk of this project. In addition to that, as a requirement of Miami 21, as we all know, we do have a liner. We have an office liner on the garage. It's three stories that conceals the garage from main highway, excuse me. And that's about 21,000 square feet that's divided in three levels. On the opposite side, facing the West Grove, there is a very small space that supports the theater that some have mentioned will be an opportunity for the community to use for learning spaces, et cetera. That's about 2,600 square feet. That's immediately adjacent to that pocket park, and I'll show you in the plan here in a moment. So that's about 2,000 square foot. space here that's gonna have classrooms and offices that face this pocket park that's been designed along Thomas and Abaterra Way. Going back to this, within the front building, the historic building that's been restored, or that will be restored, excuse me, we have On the ground floor being used as those small retail spaces that originally existed 2600 square feet of retail space there and above similarly to how it was used before as well. Some additional office space there that we understand gable stage may be occupying as well in support of the theater functions so. Just to further emphasize this quickly on the plan, you'll see here all of this is theater space. This area here is the existing historic building that's being preserved. So those 2,600 square feet. And then along the garage, there's liner both at the ground level and above. So this is the extent of the commercial space in this project. These are those offices that I mentioned as well in community spaces that will be facing the pocket park. Just to speak a little bit about the green space and how we're fronting William Avenue, Abitura Way and Thomas, you'll notice that the bulk of the landscape, by no coincidence by design, is along those frontages with a significant amount of green and trees to be able to have a nice liner against the neighborhood. We've also extended the sidewalk there as well. So you can see how the bulk of that landscape is adjacent to the neighborhood in response to a lot of the feedback that we got originally when we started working on this about 10 years ago. As Ms. Thomas already mentioned, there was a strong desire to have a connection from the West Grove back to Main Highway and not close this off At that time and through all the work that we've been doing working with the county the city and the residents and along that connection from the neighborhood to main highway, which is pedestrian only. We also have that green space which. buffers between the building facades and those in this pedestrian path, so you see that the green space that we do have that we can implement is along those front edges for that purpose. Some of the challenges that we do face here have a lot to do with the existing building. So the impermeable surfaces, if you look at the frontage along Main Highway, which is the area that's calculated in that, the bulk of that is an existing structure that we cannot change. So again, that specific exception is a function of that existing historic building that we are restoring as well. And then lastly, just to cover the issue of vehicular ingress and egress from the project, you'll note that all of the access for the garage is directly off of Main Highway, in and out, as is the existing parking lot that's been there and served this site for years. We do have a service-only entry off of this portion of Charles that allows for the service of the playhouse to be able to be accessed from this point off of Main Highway. We very specifically worked with our traffic engineers and the engineers for the project to design this in a way so that the trucks can make a right turn in and would have to turn out. And you'll notice that the curb cuts have been designed specifically to deter anybody from making a turn into the neighborhood. So the two vehicular access points that we do have are off of main highway for vehicles to park in and out of the garage. And then for the servicing of the playhouse, it's completely concealed with vegetation and these buildings that service the playhouse are off of this portion and all the traffic is intended and designed with the curving to promote all of that traffic to go back out to main highway and not into the residential area. So hopefully that's clarified a few of the points that we've heard tonight.

Really quick, on the truck access on Charles, how large trucks can get in and would they have to back out? Because I didn't really see a turnaround.

Yeah, so we actually, I'll pull it back up on the screen. We do have a T-turn here. These trucks are designed, these are box trucks that are designed to be able to back in.

So it's like a, wouldn't be like, if there was some sort of production, it would have to be a box truck, like a 26 foot, like it couldn't be an 18 wheel.

No, we can accommodate larger trucks here. We can accommodate larger trucks and we have all the maneuverability studies that support that.

I see, that's what the.

Yeah, that's what this is here as well. So the truck would be able to come in here, back in and turn out.

just to speak to that question to the chair. So the 300 seat theater, when you think about the type of productions that are gonna load in there, because although we do have access for larger trucks in that way, It serves itself to not needing those types of trucks because of the size of the theater. You're not going to have a Broadway production, although it's Broadway.

Also a theater major.

Yes, it's a top-tier theater. I'm happy to hear that. Broadway theater, the size production and those kind of trucks would not. be necessary or needed for the operation of the theater and the size of that space. But we did know that we needed to make the space large enough in the event that we needed an 18-wheeler at any time to load in.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Mr. Winker? Absolutely.

Appreciate your time. Yep. Wanted to correct a few statements. One, the county has stated that the HEP board approved the certificate of appropriateness in 2019.

I'm sorry.

The county attorney stated that the HEP board approved the certificate of appropriateness in 2019. My understanding is that's false, that it was actually disapproved and they were ordered to come back to the HEP board. That was appealed, you saw it on their timeline, it was appealed to the city, to the commission, and it was overturned. So the idea that it was ever approved, I just want to be clear, that's not what happened. Two, the idea that the lease somehow exempts the county as lessee from the city's own requirements to have the owner, the state of Florida, execute one, an authorization to act from the state of Florida. And two, a notarized hold harmless agreement is is they've admitted they haven't done it. And I think it's important when you look at the lease, the lease provides at Section 8 that lessee is to notify lessor in writing of any changes that alter the original management concept included in the plan. Lessee shall give less or reasonable notice of the application for and receipt of any state, federal, or local permits, as well as any public hearings or meetings relating to the development or use of the lease premises. It says the opposite of what the county attorney is saying. They're supposed to notify the state. Procedurally, they have not complied with the requirements. It would be like me coming in here and leasing my law office and asking you guys to authorize me to demolish something without having the owner's approval. They have not complied. That's reason enough alone for you to deny this application. The county stated they have met with this community. You heard the community. That is false. Everything that's been asked for today was asked for, as far as I can remember, back in September. All of these items were asked for. This is not a moving, we're not moving the goalposts. We've asked for it, we've received no response. Finally, the county did correct the statement by the director of Gable Stage and his attorney. about the commercial space, our numbers are correct. 37,000 of commercial space, 28,000 in theater space. Of course, their statement that Gable Stage is somehow going to occupy 37,000. We've already heard the correction on that. Thank you, everybody.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Last thing.

No, no, no. I mean, if there's anything that he said that you...

Say it's different. Thank you. I will let county staff speak to the points about the particulars of what the city may have asked for required of us and what our communications have been with the state. They have the most knowledge of that. I will just say that in regards to the certificate of appropriateness, This is in your staff kit. The 2019, Mr. Winker is correct. It was denied by the HEP board. It was appealed to the city commission. It was approved by the city commission. The city mayor vetoed that approval, which was not overridden. We challenged that by certiorari in court and prevailed. And the veto was thereby quashed. Reinstating the city commission's approval of the certificate of appropriateness and that was detailed as well by your staff I just want to make sure that that everyone's clear on that that point of history And so I would just like miss Thomas to speak to the so it is sorry But just to clarify it is fair to say that ultimately hep was not the approving body.

It was the City Commission and

That is correct, but it was the approval of the certificate of appropriateness.

Right, no, I mean, it is the certificate of appropriateness, but it wasn't actually done by HEP. It was definitely not done by HEP. It was done by the commission.

Right, pursuant to the appellate process.

Legally found to be sufficient by the appellate court. Correct. But it was the commission, not HEP. That technically is correct. That is correct.

Since what I said has been questioned, can I just add something? Yes, the certificate of appropriateness for the plans that were submitted to them was approved, and then it went through this veto and everything. But then afterwards, and Lynn Lewis was the vice chair at that point, she wrote to the state and said, what's gonna happen if this happened? The state wrote back and said, if you go ahead with the county plan, you're gonna lose your national historic designation, and probably your state one. And that was when, the HEP board specifically asked for the final plans, not the interim plans, not the ones that were submitted, they asked specifically for the final plans to be brought back to them and that has never happened.

Is there anything you can speak on that? We don't believe that is accurate. We have gotten the approval for the finer plans, and that was what I spoke to earlier just a moment ago, and that is why we're trying to stay within the scope of that approval. Understood. Those were the final plans.

What you reference as being not wanting to, you want to make sure that these are minor, or what you are presenting as minor changes is to keep it within the scope that was already approved by commissions.

That is correct, and that was our final... Under that certificate of appropriation. Right. The previous approval that we had before that was called the Master Plan approval, and that was the 2017 approval.

Got it. I'll be very brief. I just wanted to respond.

I needed to address one other thing. Please. Yeah, yeah. I'm so sorry. So the state, they have been notified each year the county is required to provide a progress, an annual progress report. of everything that has happened. We've already had a meeting with the state. They know who our partners are. They're looking forward to meeting our parking authority partners. So they're notified each step of the way. We've gotten no denials from the state from any of our progress reports that have been provided. So I just want to put on the record that the state is aware of all the plans.

Thank you. Thank you for clarifying those points, Borden.

Thanks again, and I'm sorry, I don't want to belabor this at all. I just wanted to clarify, it is possible that 20 years ago, someone mentioned that they didn't want this development to be cut off. But for at least five years, since 2021, when Commissioner Regalado gave her new presentation after election of this proposal, we've been meeting with every single individual within 500 feet of the playhouse. And there's not a single individual that wants it to be open Every single individual within 500 feet of the playhouse for the last five years. We've been expressing this. We can give the documentation. We've been telling the county this for five years, that that's the community's totally in union.

I think it's definitely been clear from who showed up today that that is the will of the current. general residential makeup. It's been at least five years. I think it's fair to, I think it was just, if you want to talk about it, I mean, it was a fair point because in my head I'm thinking, well, I'm sure someone at some point was like, we need to open this up to the entire community and not cut it off. So I think that's a totally reasonable response in a person's head is to say, why, why, why would you want something cut off?

Sure. Although the plans at that point were not, there was litigation happening about demolition. The plans of what was going to be built were not clearly conveyed to the community. And so when, so those plans were clear and we saw the amount of commercial activity that was going to happen, that's when we began meeting with the people in 2021. And uniformly, everyone said, if there's going to be commercial like that, we need to be protected from it. The other quick item I want to mention about traffic, we appreciate a little cutout, but if any of you after the meeting want to go to Charles Avenue, it's currently one way with a cutout only to go right. That does not stop anyone. Our street is full of people going the wrong way. During construction, it's been full of dump trucks, as you saw the photos of. A little cutout is not gonna stop during construction. It's also not gonna stop traffic for ongoing activities. We've also worked with the city before on local hiring processes that can be in place Again, we think all of these things are totally reasonable. We've reached out to the counties. Ms. Thomas knows. Yes, I'll just say that repeatedly, repeatedly since September of last year and have not been able to be engaged in meaningful dialogues. We hope the county's serious and that they'd be willing to put this in a binding agreement. Understood.

I just want to say one thing at the start of when we start now deliberating. There's one thing that's really clear just from physically being in the grove. in that area, and seeing your presentation, I think, is helpful, but I mean, you only have to be there to see it, is that I think there probably were a lot of missed opportunities to set a tone once the demolition plan was, you know, once that was going to happen, and just even myself walking with my kids and, you know, no wayfinding about where the sidewalk's going to cut off, and there's a sort of And it's not the only place, right? It's not the only place that us as residents deal with the lack of uniform application of how you're supposed to treat construction sites and construction vehicles and when they can shut down a road or shut down a road by just making it impossible to pass even though they don't actually necessarily that day have the right to shut down the road. There's all those types of things and And so I think that it sets a tone for conversations like this to kind of go to get a little veer away from the hard facts, you know, because it's also very helpful that we get to see the architectural detail. And to understand, I would say that, you know, the size of this commercial space, you know, when you're talking about 2000 square feet of ground floor, 2500, 3500. you can barely do anything in a 1200 square foot space. You could maybe do something in a two, and if they're divided up into these small spaces, these are, consistent with a more, it's almost, what's the building in Center Grove where like Chugs and all the little square super old retail building, those tiny little retail spots.

The total commercial is over 35,000 square feet.

Right, but we're talking about ground floor and I think there was a valid concern that if this was going to be Cocoa Walk opening up to a neighborhood, with all sorts of revelry and that kind of thing, but it's not big enough. It's not big enough, the commercial spaces on the ground floor are too small to kind of create that kind of, it's just not gonna, you can't fit that many people

We don't believe that because we know...

Believe it from a person who opens restaurants and bars that you need back of house, you need bathrooms, you need storage, you need a kitchen. And by the time you have the bathrooms and storage and the kitchen and all that stuff, there's barely any space left.

Just to be clear, Preserve the West Grove, we would like to be more... civic-oriented. However, we understand if there is going to be this amount of commercial on it, including all of the office space, including the restaurant, including the retail and the facade, we just want to make sure we're protected from it. And we do feel like that's reasonable.

That's what I'm saying. That is reasonable. But let's be reasonable about what you are protecting yourself from. And I think to describe it accurately and to use the same that you want facts in terms of traffic, You have to be factual about what it takes to even legally open a place in the city of Miami. Even a bookstore with a bathroom is going to be, you know, it's just all the things.

And in the same way of being realistic, we do feel like, just to be honest, we all know how people drive in Miami. A little curve out is not going to stop the construction trucks. I mean, that's just a traffic plan is reasonable. Sure.

Again, I think a bunch of folks have intimated that a lot of the things that are being asked for There's got to be some give, and there's probably some way to get there. But I'm going to stop talking. I'm sorry. I'm going to start right over here.

Okay. Well, based on the input tonight, I think we can all admit that the civic process is working, so that's good. Look, I think it's a great project, and I'm really thankful for all the people that came out tonight and gave their perspective and their input. It was helpful for us to hear and I think the main takeaway there is that the community engagement here can be enhanced. I think the county has resources for that and you can hold those forums and you can hear from the neighbors and you can hear from other participants in the community outside of this forum and take that input into your plans a little bit more concretely. My sense is that there's a number of conditions that we would want to have if we were to move forward with this. And just to add a few, and I'll pass it because I'm sure I want to hear from the rest of the board, but a traffic study seems very reasonable here. I'll let those experts opine on what's necessary, what roads to block, a new light wall, a barrier. But that's absolutely necessary here. I happen to be a historic developer. That is, I buy landmark buildings and rehab them. And so I can speak with a little bit on the technicality. My sense is that this project, its historic integrity can be enhanced. And I would like to see HEP be way in on this. I understand it's another regulatory body. It slows the process down. That would be unfortunate. But I do think that there's items here that can be enhanced. It probably wouldn't cost that much. I think the statement piece of the restored primary theater facade is just so wonderful that you're most of the way there already. And just a few, maybe not a full review from Hep B, but some light interaction with them is necessary here. And I do think that the green space waiver is legitimate to go down below 30%. Seems like we're still getting more than we have right now. The Grove is its canopy. right let's let's get some large tree specimens native trees old oaks banyans I think that's a commitment that can be made here and then fair wages for the local community is something that you guys have said is already in the plan so might as well be a condition here too but I'll pass it there that's a lot of stuff I just added thank you very much this is a little more complicated than I thought at first

I agree with my board member who just spoke that there's some good elements in this plan, but it does not, it's not a good plan. It does not look like the Grove, it doesn't feel like the Grove, and it's not gonna work for the Grove. I have some questions for everybody here, and I'll try to be as brief as I can. I see that there's rooftop parking, and that's on the third or the fourth floor. Can somebody from the architect answer that question? Rooftop parking, is that going to be the fourth floor technically or the third floor? You've got underground, and then you've got three floors, and it says typical on top of that. Then you've got rooftop on top of that.

Well, the garage is open roof, so you're parking on the last floor.

So you're going to have, and that's how high off the ground? 50 feet off the ground? So you're going to have cars on the roof, 50 feet over the ground, in a T3 neighborhood. That does not sound like the Grove to me. That's just point number one. Point number two, originally somebody... I'm sorry, I'm not as good with names as I used to be, but the gentleman with the blue suit there mentioned that... that there was going to be a significant amount of office for the playhouse itself, for the theater itself. I thought that was okay. Well, they need 28,000 square feet of office. That's a big production. But it turns out that they're just taking a little corner off the north, which means that this project is a commercial project. Then representative from the county then says, well, We have to follow the rules that were given to us by the state. One of them is that this has to pay for itself. So obviously, the commercial element is to pay for the playhouse. Now, the point here is to get the playhouse back working. Everybody wants the playhouse. I think everybody wants parking. Only the county wants the commercial aspect. Only the county wants the restaurants and the boutiques and three floors of offices, a budding T3 in the middle of the Grove. Now, since when does this board approve that? And I know that if this goes back to the HEP board, please, please, please. I know the HEP board and I know some of the members of the HEP board. I know they would love to get their teeth back into this because I think that they would insist that this looks more like the Grove because the renderings you have here looks like it belongs brickle anywhere else, but not in the heart of the Grove. And those streets cannot take three more stories of office spaces. They just can't do it. Now, if you've got 300 seats in your theater, how many parking spots do you think you need there? Maybe 150. How many people go to the theater alone in their car? They usually go with a group. And if they're local, there's other ways they can get there. So for the playhouse itself probably only needs 100 parking spots, maybe even less. So the bulk of this project is commercial to be able to afford the playhouse. And that is the problem we have here. That you gotta take the bad in order to get the good. So how are you gonna balance that? To me, it would be super easy if you could just say, okay, yes to the playhouse, yes to the parking, no to the commercial. but I don't have the numbers in front of me. So that probably wouldn't fly. If you really do need the commercial aspect to make the playhouse fly, we got a problem here. At least what you can do is make that development look like the Grove because it does not look like the Grove now. And I've seen a lot of renderings in the, in the 12 or so years that I've been on this board over two different sections. And, uh, And I don't think I've ever seen a development that looks more out of place than this one. So I'd love to see, as my fellow board members suggested, I don't want to see this, I mean it's been how many, 20 something years, 23 years, 22 years that this has been going on? But I think another two to four weeks is reasonable. to have a look at this and see how can we make it look more like the Grove? How can we scale it down somehow so that we don't have rooftop parking 50 feet over the street? That's over the trees. And that just doesn't belong in the Grove unless you're intending to change the Grove. And we know that in this city, changes happen without due process sometimes. I mean, this city has a habit of going in the direction it wants to go without really showing their hand. So, I don't think that's going on here, but this will change the character of the Grove, and I understand exactly why all the Groveites are so upset about it. But everybody wants the playhouse, and everybody wants parking. So, I will vote for anything, and I think Mr., Mr. Corbin had some good points there. Anybody who was recently quoted in The Economist probably has some good points to be listened to. I think that if you reduced the office and didn't need the fourth floor, the rooftop parking, if you reduce the parking and you reduce the public, I mean, I think our A chair is absolutely right. This is not a whole lot of retail, and you can't fit a whole lot of retail in this. So I think that that's nowhere near as onerous as the commercial is. I think what you're squeezing commercial into this project in order to be able to afford the playhouse. So it's a real problem here, and somebody's going to end up very unhappy. Usually the gorilla in the room wins these battles, but... But I would listen to any motion that addresses what I think is an excessively large parking and office facility for this location and find some other way to finance the playhouse, because that's what everybody wants, the playhouse and the parking. So I think that in the next two or three, four weeks, I would say defer it until the HEP board can weigh in, even if it's not a formal process, and see, and it's not, I mean, maybe staff can clarify this. It's not our business whether they're going to make money or not, is it? That's not for us to be looking at the numbers to see, do they really need a huge office structure in the middle of a T3 neighborhood in order to make the playhouse work. But somebody's gotta know those numbers. And if it absolutely cannot happen without the office space, then I think that your team needs to make that really clear to the public. You can get the playhouse, but you gotta have the office space, and you gotta have the parking, at this scale, otherwise you won't get the Playhouse. So I don't think that's been made clear to the public.

Thank you. I've been on this board about 12 years now, and when I first became a board member, this was just coming to this board, I believe for the first time. And I remember I represented with the county had individual meetings with each board member on site and the representative of the county walked walked me through all the difficulties with this building um from the elevation of the floor to the elevation of the building the slope of the floor um the quality and current status of the building and i've seen it year over year after year of the efforts that they tried to do to to develop this and there's a lot of moving pieces between the historic component, the neighborhood, and I think that they have given a valiant effort to try to come up with something that appeases everyone. I don't think anyone, I don't think a project like this is ever gonna have everyone on board, but I think the effort has been there. And I think, I think that this would only be done by government entity because any private entity would I'm sure would not probably find this project economically viable I respect that they have an obligation to the state to essentially at least break even and at the end of the day we're all taxpayers of this property so I appreciate that the neighborhood has concerns I can say from a with a background in civil engineering and traffic engineering that I do think, given all the factors that the site has been laid out and designs appropriately, especially from a traffic perspective with the access coming off main highway. I don't really see much much happening in the neighborhood I am a little concerned about the construction phase, but. I'm sure that the City of Public Works will review that. I think hearing from the neighborhood, there was two items that seemed really resounding to me that I think could be added. One would be the closure of the pedestrian corridor. And number two, some sort of natural wall or feature along, I believe it would be the west and north sides. So I'm just curious if that's something that the county would consider as a condition? It is a question, yes.

Yes, we can absolutely consider that as a condition. If it's a condition of approval, we're happy to have that. I think I'm supposed to say within the existing confinements that we have in our certificate of appropriateness, so we just have to stay in line of what has been approved by that certificate of appropriateness, but we can.

Yeah. And I think looking at the landscape plan, I mean, there is a tremendous amount that you guys are adding on the west side. And I can see the west and north side that I think is, I'm not sure everyone is aware of, but I think maybe some sort of natural element or four to six foot wall would go a long way. And I really did not hear anyone in support of that pedestrian corridor. And I could see that being problematic at certain hours of the day. So from a safety perspective, that might be in everyone's best interest. Those are my thoughts. Thank you.

We'll take a break right after. Yeah, right, one more person, and then we'll let you go up.

So I do a lot of P3s with the county, and I guess my take on it, you know, I'm probably gonna either vote no or ask for you guys to do a deferral. And the reason why I bring this up, because I have, when I do projects on county land, I have multiple, you know, meetings. I think on my last project I had over 22 with the community to get their buy-in. And then also, you know, just to keep it brief because it's late, you know, we're always required to do a community benefit program. So I'm a little bit amazed or perplexed that there's not one here when you guys require us to do community benefit, you know, program and agreements. So I would recommend that that happen and, you know, have more community meetings with the community. I know this is frustrating. It's frustrating for me all the time, but it's You know, it's part of the job. It's what we have to do. So that would be my recommendation that that happen.

Thank you. Sir, you had a...

I didn't give my address. My name is William Zombrist. I didn't give my address before.

It's 3260 Thomas Avenue.

I don't recall. But would it be asking too much? Do you think if we did not care to have the commercial traffic And pedestrian traffic roaming our streets. We had on the next street over on Williams, we had a guy wake up and go out to his car and there was someone sleeping in his car in his yard. You know, but we're trying to avoid the pedestrian traffic. and the delivery track, commercial traffic, and going in the communities. And I think that's a respectable request. Thank you. And I thank you all for contributing your time here. And I thank God it's been nearly a decade since I've been here before because in times past, when I was living here, this board had a deaf ear to listening. They would hear you, but they were not listening. And that's why we have all the abutting traffic, all the abutting real estate on Grand Avenue, on both sides. It's turned from residential to commercial.

Thank you.

Because even though we asked them not to approve the zoning changes, they did it anyhow. And I thought I'd just... Say amen and just focus on being a full-time husband. Amen.

Bless you all. Thank you. And neighbor. And neighbor. All right.

Sure. So I've been on this board for one day. So I apologize. It's been a very long day for me. But I will say that I have been a member of this city or of this community since I was born here. I was born in Miami and I can appreciate the civic process that has taken place today and it's very interesting to see this from my point of view. So I'll keep this brief and defer to the rest of the board. I think one of the most prevalent things that stuck out to me obviously was the barrier. I understand that a study was done or a different decision was made in 2018. from my notes here, but it seems like the general public would like that revisited. So I don't see anything wrong with that. Other than that, the traffic study, it's not really unreasonable as well to sit down with community members and talk with them about that, but those are the two things that pretty much stuck out to me. Thank you.

Okay, so I'll start with a question. I see that we have 289 parking spaces now. What were originally on the historic property? What was the number of parking spaces on the historic site? It's a surface lot that's there now.

So I would need to actually get that number for the historic space. But on the surface lot, and I'm going to ask, I'm sorry. There's 160. There's 160 on the surface lot. Thank you.

Okay.

And just to the parking height, the height of that matches what was required of the county was to make sure that the parking lot wasn't higher than any of the buildings surrounding. So it's actually equal height to the gentleman. I think he stepped out. equal height to the building that's adjacent to the property.

Yes, I'm familiar with that. That's not a concern. Thank you. I would like to ask staff or whomever can answer, was this property ever thought through its process to be rezoned to fit the uses instead of doing five exceptions? Has this been contemplated?

Again, what was the question?

If the city ever contemplated, instead of doing five exceptions, to rezone the property to fit the uses that are being claimed or requested.

All I can say is that any development in any CI would require an exception. All development requires an exception. This property, as previously stated in the presentation, the project has been before this board and before the city commission. The project is pretty much similar in scale. The project, the property has not been considered for rezoning. As with any development in CI, it's typically developed in accordance with the most restrictive but intrinsic. which is what triggers the waivers and whatnot.

Also, if I can just add to that, I think that it's important to remember we think of exceptions as something that's not already entitled. But to a certain extent, exceptions are entitled. They're here so that you guys can give extra scrutiny and provide any extra conditions that may be needed for those exceptions. so that it is contextual to its surroundings. So when you think about it that way.

Yes, but we have an application today with five exceptions. But I understand that through the zoning classification, anything would trigger an exception. The question is five. Typically, we see a hospital, and it's for that specific purpose. And then the parking is typically ancillary to that use. So we don't have five exceptions. stand-alone exceptions like we have in this case, which is a little bit concerning. And I think it has emerged all of these questions about commercial and if it really belongs in the application. Because when I look at it, at the definition of CI, it's a zone with uses primarily dedicated to functioning for community purposes, such as cultural, educational, environmental, government, public transit, public facility, and religious facilities. So we do have in this application cultural uses, educational uses, and public parking. So those would be governed under the CI definition. So what concerns me is the uses that typically are not, and they fall under different definitions.

So, for example, some of the retail might be considered an ancillary use of the principal use. The principal use here is the theater, right? So you have the theater that encompasses the largest percentage of your square footage. The commercial component could be ancillary to the principal use. Also, as we know in Article IV Table 2, any development is triggered by an exception. And other uses in any CI, there are uses that could be more intense uses. For example, you know, a major facility or infrastructure and utilities or places of assembly, as you mentioned. So there could be greater, more intense uses. I guarantee that staff in reviewing this project and looking at the architectural and the scale of the project and keeping in mind that this project has gone, I mean, as I went through the timeline, this is a lengthy process and a review of this process. And I can actually speak on having brought this project through the HEP Board, One of my first projects in working in the city for the 13 plus years. This project has gone through a very thorough review. As my colleague, Savan, had mentioned, there's been questions about traffic studies. There was a traffic study that was originally submitted in the first phase of this project when it came through the multiple cycles. The board can request an additional traffic study to be reviewed and approved as part of an additional condition, should the board consider. But as regards to the rezoning, there hasn't been a request to or contemplation to rezone because there is a greater purview and a greater sense of quality control when we go through the exception process to review these projects in CI to ensure that we have the appropriate level of review and the appropriate conditions to ensure that we mitigate any adverse impacts that we would consider when bringing these projects forward to you for your consideration.

Okay, thank you. I still have, you know, when they don't fall under the classification, and this is my personal deviation from, you know, in opinion, is that the sonic classifications exist for a reason. And when we deviate, we know that it's not the best path. And in terms of ancillary uses, yes, but a kitchen is an ancillary use to the residents. You cannot have a residence without a kitchen. Parking is an ancillary use to a restaurant because the code requires parking for that restaurant to operate. Now, other uses can be contemplated, not necessarily as ancillary. So I think there's room there for us to have a deviation. Now, if this site, which was originally considered a legal non-conforming structure, and historic designated structures are allowed to continue because they're legally non-conforming structures, And the youth is allowed to expand by right for 20% or more, 20% or less, Perseon 25725. There would have been an opportunity to treat this project differently. And I'm not saying it's you, Efren. I'm saying the process, I think, we can say that we can agree that it suffered, that it has been excruciating. We have 20 years, litigation, vetoes, HEP resolutions, city commissions, squashes. I mean, you name it, we had it. And the cost and time that this has incurred in taxpayers is catastrophic. It is really a loss for the community, for everyone. I think this project is a historic designated site, and if this has not been preserved as it should, then I wonder what will be. I think that this sets a poor standard on historic preservation. I think that government is the most physically resourceful entity to restore. And they have an obligation with taxpayers and for the culture and the well-being of everyone. And I think that this application has failed in that regard. I also think that as a board, and I want to bring awareness to our duties here, is that we will not be remembered by how efficient we are. with our vote, if we do this quickly, if we move on. I think that we have a responsibility to represent the voice of the local community, the welfare of taxpayers, and if the code has been honored, that is what we're here to do. These buildings that will be built, they will post data, like any building does, which is the beauty of architecture. And they will carry history, regardless of how this application moves. But ironically, that same history that these buildings are going to carry have been destroyed in this application, because we lost heritage. I also want to bring, since there were facts discussed during this application, that I understand that the development capacity of this project is 183,000 square feet. So I want to...

I'm sorry.

Yes.

I think we have to extend. No, no, no. I'm saying for the meeting, I think we have a cutoff. Don't we have to extend?

Did you have an 11 p.m. cutoff? You do have to make a motion to continue, so.

Move to continue. Is there a second?

Second.

Until 11.30?

You have, I would, I mean, so you can do it on a case-by-case basis, and you can make another motion at 11.30.

I'm sorry, how many more items have to be heard tonight?

So we have two private applications and two city applications after this item.

Right. I mean, at least 12 o'clock.

Well, right.

All right, we'll do a half hour for now. Okay, there's a motion, there's a second. All in favor? Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, so following, you know, we were discussing facts. So 183,000 is the development capacity. 6.5, 6.55%. of this project is historic, remaining. And 15% is the theater. Those are the numbers, as I understand them. So I'm concerned. The auditorium in my children's school, I think it's bigger than this theater. And it doesn't fit the entire school. So parents have to choose which relative we take to the event. So I wonder, you know, it's difficult for me to understand how this application will impact our community. And I think it's a very difficult application. I'm going to wrap up. Well, I have a question, though. Yes, go ahead.

It seems like the gist of what you're saying, though, is that this entire process is wrong and that the entire project is not correct, like that there's not really anything to work with here. Is that the gist of what you're saying?

I think that the process has been rigged. I think the process is not rigged. I don't know if I'm using the right word. My first language is something else. But I think the process is less than ideal. Community input has not been reasonably taking into account. So you would vote no today? The fact that the residents, and I understand that they are reacting, right? It's an innate reaction. Let's say, let's put a fence. That's like a very innate reaction to separate yourself from something that you don't want. Noise, too much traffic. But if we have to build a wall Clearly, this is not the right use for the property. A wall is not a properly used planning tool. We don't do walls anymore. We have more efficient, more better tools in our planning toolbox than walls. We were trying to separate from something that I think the project is out of scale. It's too large for the community. That's what the community is telling us. So I hear things from the waivers, the property, They cannot do this much greenway because, OK, the historic property did not have this much greenway. But where is the historic property? Only 6% remains. So why are we picking and choosing that we're improving a situation that was prior there, but that situation is no longer there? This is a new application, in my view. And the only thing that remains is 6% on the front. And the rest is new. So now I think that's the conversation. To me, this is very convoluted. It's not very clear. I understand that staff and a number of hours have been spent, and my heart goes out to that. But I would be of an agreement of ask for HEP to to participate, to give us their feedback since they were here since the inception. We just inherited this. Now, if I have to weigh these based on the five exceptions on the uses, well, I have comments about the commercial use that it's not part of a CI.

That is what we are here for today.

Yes, and that's why. Then I don't know why we were presented so many plans. I mean, the colors and the application had a number of information. I think we need to see these holistically, entirely. We cannot just look something. That's what they want us to do. But we need to see it entirely. So if we want to look at it on the merits of the application, the fact that this has five exceptions and commercial is not part of a CIU, I can clearly say, if I have to look at it on the merits of the waivers, they are over developing based on what the more restricting abutting use permit.

Got it. Thank you. Member Bailey.

I just have a few questions. The first question is for county staff. Wanted to know the 2018 traffic study, did that include the new commercial? Was that already included?

plan that was approved did include commercial and that traffic study did include that. So it was with the 2018 plan that was approved. As you can see, this plan that comes before you is very close to the 2018 plan with those minor adjustments in the waivers that we discussed.

And I wanted to know your time frame. If we defer the item tonight so you can get with the residents about their five things, Does that meet your, is there a problem in the future with that?

So, and I just go back to this part is a part of a regulatory process. So there's many more permitting processes that have to occur after this portion. This is just for the exception in waivers. It does hold up that process. And so I hear people, I know construction is inconvenient. You know, we want to move forward and complete the project. And of course, we want to do it sensitively as Maria's requesting that I can hear what you're saying, Madam Board Chair here hearing. So I'm sorry, I don't know how to say that correctly. But yes, there is a construction timeline in place and this approval taking it back to help is not something that the county is interested in doing. We have our certificate appropriateness there already approved, and doing that will slow down this process.

If I could interject just a quick question on when you said you did have a traffic study. Yes, in 2018. Back in 2018. Yes. When the traffic was half of what it is now. It's a forecasting. So don't you think you need a new traffic study? Considering that we have 100,000 more people and probably 200,000 more cars.

So happy to, as a condition, if a traffic set needs to be updated, as stated, we're happy to do that.

Member Mann, we did already get that answer. That's already been asked, and they said yes. So, yes.

So that answers, I think, all the questions I have. Tonight, I would actually still like to defer it, only because it possibly changes the character of the neighborhood. So you're deferring deferral. Yes, and there are some things I would like to take into account, like do we add the wall when you connect with the residents that it closely abuts, and so things of that nature, and also the updated traffic study. So I would like to defer the item tonight, give you time to come back with what you feel is possibly more palatable to the board. Thank you, sir.

so first of all i'm really grateful to that we had the opportunity to hear all of the concerns um so i'll just go i'll just get really granular on some of the issues because i think the board has has really done a great job of covering some of the items i am con the back and forth about the path this is how granular i'm getting on these comments i am really concerned about closing it off because I think years several years from now we're going to have the population say I wish my kids could just ride their bike right into the park so I don't know what the answer is but I do definitely think that um we did here before to not close it off now we're asking to close it off there's I don't know what the answer is but closing it off at sometimes just makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't have a better word for it than that. The one area that I think we're all in the CFRS agreement here is the issue of understanding a little bit more of traffic implications. I think that one does, obviously, we've agreed to the updated traffic study, but even just understanding a little bit more about traffic rotation and the uses that are gonna allow the community to say, I won't have the garbage can beeping as it backs up Sure, you have the place to do the T-stop and back up and all that. But I think the community does deserve a little bit more of an outreach. I feel like I was hearing very clearly we do need a source of revenue, so I think someone asked about that. You know, is it you get the playhouse with this or you get nothing, right? And I think I heard we need the source of revenue, and I think that's fair. I mean, we've got to have a viable site. I welcome understanding a little bit more of the process. This project has been long in the making and I think part of the reason that some of the historic properties, the historic elements of the property are gone is it's taken so long. There's a value of time to this community to have something in place. So I don't have any pithy arguments either way other than yes, I'd love to see more green space. but I'm loath to see this project slow down and end up with getting nothing to the community. But I think the county is able to come with some additional information that would allow this project to continue to move forward in the manner that it's being contemplated holistically with some of the nuances just tweaked. But I'd hate to see this go back to the drawing board. I think we're doing a disservice. Thank you.

OK, thanks. All right. So we had the five notes. One was no commercial intrusion into the neighborhood using trees and the coral to protect it. Is there a possibility of doing a hybrid and making it a gate? So like on certain. Festival times or something like that. There's gonna be times where people are gonna want to have to be able to walk through but we could use Coral to make a gate. We have a lot of really cool remnants of coral gates around different neighborhoods. Let's do something that is Historically appropriate, you know uses some form of oolitic something or other and it could be open and closed say for like whatever on a calendar that the neighborhood agrees to just let me we gotta yeah okay great so we solved that um clear uh the traffic we already agree you guys are going to update the traffic plan okay um benefits and hiring priorities and things like that i think it's it's uh i understand that we're in a dynamic time where i don't know what is allowed anymore or not But to the extent that anything can be past some form of legal muster, I think it'd be absurd to not have some carve out for just use a radius if we can do that. I know that they do that and that makes it not whatever. Won't anger somebody in Tallahassee or something. I don't know. And then the same with the build into the leases, I think, or something. The discounts, same thing. Residents, the cultural entities that exist in the neighborhood, those are things that can be contracted, right? If you want to sign a lease here, you have to offer a discount or whatever, you know, something like that. That could just be a lease term. I don't know, you know, the details of that, I think maybe we don't have today, but I think to just say we will make best efforts is not enough.

Understood, Chair. May I address just those last two as far as the employment and the lease or exclusions or benefits or contracts? There's legal limitations that we have. You cannot make it exclusive to one group in that sense. So there are some legal limitations. So what I'm saying, to the extent that we are allowable to the law to do those things, that is not an issue.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's why I was saying, I don't know if distance... And radius gets around all of those restrictions instead of who. But in terms of the discounts and stuff like that, I think, like I said, saying that, yeah, we'll try is not good enough. I think we just do it right. Like, it's not that big of a deal. People can build in a 10%. discount or something into their pricing or whatever. Just for clarification.

Mr. Chair, if we can make sure that the conditions that you guys are considering are within the purview of this board and items that are terms within the lease are not part of your purview.

No. I understand. But we're just... think this is unless that was further proffered by the county and we're just talking about ideas as to how this could satisfy some of the things that were brought up it's not really gonna be up to us all right I'll stop giving the ideas but historic landmarks and and and the archaeological or anything similar I mean it just seems crazy that again this goes back to my original point though the the start of this whole process once things were underway, it just gave the air of not caring. So even if there are folks involved in the project that do care, whether it's at the county, city, whatever, more care to be taken and updates on things like historical signage, things like that. There's no excuse to have those things out of place or people not understand where they're going or whatever. Yeah. So I thought it was interesting. The only other piece, you know, was as far as the way the place looks, that's not for us to, you know, we're not. I mean, I know you guys presented what it's supposed to look like, and there's this enormous 15, 20-year history of litigation where all of this is now part of the record. So it's a little different than our normal exception application. So we do have pictures and things because there's such a tight site plan that's required and the old app stuff. So...

I'm still totally uncomfortable voting for anything that has a 40-foot parking lot, a budding T3 with rooftop parking. That just does not seem appropriate for the Grove to me at all. And I don't know, the city probably, I don't know if they've ever heard from the public. I don't know if they've ever seen this level of detail. Not that we have very much detail here.

On that note, do we have in the grove, are there open... Do they know that there's going to be rooftop parking 40 feet over their heads?

Are they aware of this?

Let me just clarify. Let me pull up the section that's in the...

I'm going to pull up the section.

I mean, to do this correctly, because rather than – I would just say let's defer this. This has been 22 years already. I don't think deferring for a week or until our next meeting, two weeks, is going to bomb this. But, I mean, what – Yes, we have to figure out what we're going to achieve in the two weeks. But I just – I can't approve. I mean, they're going to redesign the – I can't approve a four-story, a three- or a four-story parking lot or budding T3. I just can't do it.

Mr. Chair? Do we want a clarification?

Yeah, sure.

Okay, great. So a few things. We have a four-story garage at which the top deck you do park on. So we do have a four-story garage behind a four-story liner, which lines up with the adjacent building on Main Highway. Okay. So we have an office liner adjacent, an office building that matches that height. And we have a garage behind it. That's four stories. So we do park on the deck, which is the last deck of that garage. And this section here shows it. So you can see, we have four stories in the garage. You do park on the last deck and there is an office liner in line with the adjacent building, right on the same side of main highway. and I'll show you in a site plan, that conceals that garage from Main Highway, and then we have a facade on the other end that conceals the garage from the neighborhood.

So we do have a forced... How do you conceal a 40-foot wall that's across the street from a T3?

Yeah, you can see by the way that the facade's been designed. Let me just go to that perspective, which you all have as well. So that facade here... that's adjacent to the new pocket park, because right now that's just asphalt. So we have a new pocket park here facing the neighborhood, and the building behind is designed to conceal that. So we're activating that space, making it accessible to the, I mean, this is the proposal, right? Accessible to the residents of this area, lining that entire street with greenscape that does not exist, with trees along the entire frontage, lot of what you've heard the residents requesting so that's the objective there I just wanted to we're not parking on the roof we're parking on the last deck of the garage it's a four-story garage and it's concealed by a liner which is a requirement so we're just meeting the requirement just back up you said that that there's no parking on the roof here I didn't say that I said we're parking on the deck on the top deck that's not the roof it's the top floor of the garage

which, if it wasn't a garage, would be the roof. It's the top floor of the garage, yeah.

It's an open-air garage at the top level.

If I could just clarify, though, the adjacent building that it's going to be equal to does not abut T3R. This does abut T3R. So they're saying it's going to match the building next to it?

I'm sorry, just really quick for everybody. If the theater was still there, how high is the theater?

It's the same height.

Right, the same height. So is the theater not abutting a T3 neighborhood? Or was it not?

The theater was, but there was no three or four story garage there. But how high was the theater? Was not a butting there was a parking lot behind the theater parking lot parking lot There's parking the theater does I mean, but no, but no building one story. It was flat So there was no three-story garage Directly above as you can see in the map the neighborhood like mr. Mann is pointing out this would be towering over Theater house was that height certainly with the teeth theater house as you know I'm looking at a t3 neighborhood

And there's a corner, the corner houses were by the theater.

Right, behind there, behind that building, this is the new design, not in the original design. The theater had a parking lot behind it as well that had space, a service parking lot behind the theater. So it was, it scaled down. The back of the theater was smaller, and then there was nothing until you got to the houses next to it, right? Whereas now, it's directly on top of it. If you walk over there now, you can see it. It was down to, there was a large amount of space, I'm not sure how many feet, with nothing there.

Right. Okay. Chair, may I? When you have a new application, what happened before should not apply. We need to see this in the light of the new building. And that's how, when we look at buildings in the city, if there's something that's been demolished and it's no longer there, it's gone. So what we're building new is new fabric and a new situation. And we need to look at it on its merits. And we just spoke about this being an exception that provides that layer of design or at least scrutiny through the exception process. So I suggest we use it.

OK. Is there a motion on the exceptions and waivers?

Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to defer this item to the county to show their willingness to work with the residents. And so I'd like to defer this to our next meeting. And then after they've had conversation, they come back to us with the possible solutions.

Respectfully, I feel like a deferral after a five-hour discussion where all the players are here, we've heard from everyone. I don't know how many times this meeting's been rescheduled. I think we have the county willing to agree to a number of the things that were requested in terms of the traffic study, a natural buffer, restricting the corridor during certain times. I feel like all the information's here to make a decision, yes or no, but everything is here.

Well, if there's no second, you can just vote.

The problem is, Mr. Collins, that Nobody wants to say no to it. We just want to say yes to it in its best form. And this is not its best form.

I'd love to say yes to this. I second the current motion, so if you want to vote or not vote.

The current motion was deferred.

So the motion is to defer to the May 20th meeting. And that is to give the applicant additional time to work with the community.

I'm going to ask the one question we always ask at this moment, which is the meetings that you have had so far, Is it fair to say that some of these things could still be, there's still some ground to?

So we've addressed, thank you so much, Chair, because I wanted to get to that. We have addressed these five community points. The two that you all bring up is the wall, because there was a real resistance to the county on the plan, as I said, community input. from before, did not want the wall. And the commissioner has also stated no wall, so that we can rectify historical segregation by walls. So I think you made a good point to what could be possible. What we would love to see happen is approval with conditions. If you want the traffic plan updated, Absolutely, we can work through that. If you want us to explore how we can meet the residents' need for further noise barriers, we're doing a lush landscape. If a coral wall wants to be contemplated within the limits or existence and conditions that we can, we'd be happy to discuss that. with an approval and a condition. That is what the request of the county is, a deferral to the next meeting, which I think is next month. We will probably be coming back with something extremely similar because those other items, to your point from exclusive use, discounted use, how do you hire, those things are,

Kind of outside of what we're doing here. Yeah, I understand. And I think that's fair too. I think everyone comes to these meetings with everything. We have to parse out what we can and can't do.

Which doesn't mean we won't be working with the community through those things outside of this. It was litigation that caused us not to have many of the conversations that we're looking forward to having now that all of those things have been resolved.

There is a motion and a second on the floor.

Yes, for deferral.

So any discussion on that motion should be directed by the chair only.

Yeah.

So there is no public comment open at this time. Right. Unless the chair wishes to allow that.

No, I don't. Not at this time. Is there a motion on the floor? Yes, there's a motion for deferral and a second.

And it is to May 20th.

Roll call, please.

Calling Member Mario Bailey. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Elan Mottoyer. Yes. Thank you. Calling Member Lynette Cardoche.

No.

Thank you. Calling Member Chris Collins.