City Council - Regular Meeting

Yes, I just wanted to say that the council is muted on Zoom. We can't hear what you guys are doing. Thank you, Pete. Can you hear us now? Can he hear us now? I can't. Yes, I can.

Okay. If there's anybody online that would like to make a public comment, uh, please raise your hand. Nothing. Okay, we will close agenda item number one and move to agenda item number two. Summary of action. Summary action items. Uh, letter A, the approval of minutes from the April 1st, 2026 city council regular meeting. These are not ready for us to to review and they will be available at our next meeting. So, item B is the approval of the bills. Does anybody on the council have any questions or comments about the bills? I did have one question regarding uh the a cemetery uh to um looks like for underllayment. I was just wondering what that was specifically.

So it's a thick um rubber that we're going to put under the fence line we eat under a weed barrier. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Any other concerns or questions on the bills? Somebody would like to make a motion. Mayor, I make a motion we approve the bills as presented to us. We have a motion by council member Thomas. Is there a second? Second. A second by council member Butler. All in favor? I

you item number three, consideration of res resolution 2026-24 approving the appointment of Candy Swallum to the Grantsville City Library Board. I don't see Candy here, but I know Candy. So, if anybody would like to make a motion on that, it doesn't look like uh John is here either. Correct. Yeah, he's out today. Okay. Both these next two items, both these individuals have been attending the library board meetings as just citizens. Okay. Just learning the ropes, so to speak, until they were approved by the council. Okay.

They have been making an extra effort and supporting the library board. Perfect. So, Red is our council member who was on the library board. So, thank you for that update. Correct. Someone would like to make a motion. If there are no f further concerns or questions, make a motion we approve resolution 2020 2026-24 approving the appointment of Candy Swallen to the Grantsville City Library Board. We have a motion by Council Member Butler. Is there a second? Second. A second by Council Member Williams. All in favor?

Thank you. we will add her to the Grantsville City Library Board. Um the next item number four is a consideration of resolution 2026-25 approving the appointment of Camille Coons to the Grantsville City Library Board. And she also has been attending. Yes. Great. Can I get a motion? Mayor, I make a motion we approve resolution 2026-25 approving the appointment of Camille Coons to the Grantsville City Library Board. We have a motion by Council Member Williams. Is there a second? I'll second. A second by Council Member Dalton. All in favor?

Right. Thank you to Candy and Camille for being willing to serve our library and our citizens. We will move on to item number five, consideration of resolution 2026-26 approving the memorandum of understanding with the inland Port Authority. And we have Stephanie Pack here, it looks like, and I'm hopeful that she's going to give us some great information.

Thank you so much, Mayor. Um, Stephanie Pack. I'm with the Utah Inland Port Authority. The memorandum of understanding that we provided to the city really outlines the uh commitment that we've discussed in previous meetings where uh the Utah Port Authority who statutoily uh collects sales tax revenue within our project areas. Uh this memorandum of understanding would pass through any sales tax collected by the inland port to the city. Um we we anticipate that the areas within our project area are largely going to be um industrial. Uh there may be some instances in the future of future retail uh requiring the the request of this memorandum of understanding. Um but happy to answer any additional questions from the city u regarding the pass through of sales tax. And

this will cover all the locations. Th this memorandum of understanding would cover all of our our project area boundaries within the city. Perfect. So the Broken Arrow site site, the Romney site, the site for Mr. Green's property, all three of those are entailed in this. Okay. Thank you. So, you came and visited us. Was it back in February? Uh, I believe around that time. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, we we went through this in detail. Um, back then. So, I don't I don't really have any specific questions for you in this regard. This is this is a dumb little I've got one dumb little question. Has it always been called the 20 wells in Lumpport? Yes. I'm struggling with that because we have a development 20 wells that have nothing to do with each other. Correct. Right.

So my question is on here I didn't see anything where it says it defines a percentage we get or anything from any of the the sales taxes. So, how how

so the the sales tax portion is a little bit different than the property tax rebates. Um the the sales tax that the inland port receives uh when we create a project area isn't at the a 75% breakdown and I actually think it's closer to 20%. Um, and so it will be the entirety of any sales tax that that the inland port collects within those boundaries, we will remit back to Grantsville City. Um, so I I don't think um it's precisely 75% like the property tax breakdown is um but it's closer to that 20% of sales tax generated within that project area comes to the port. So, we're just remitting back our portion that we collect back to the city.

Property tax is a different issue though, right? Talked about that at length in that February meeting.

Wouldn't we want those percentages in this though? I think for the property taxes, it depends on the the what it is and the development and how it goes. So, this is just locking in the the sales tax and we want that across the board on every one of them. And then the individual locations will make different agreements on those property taxes. So, that's why we don't necessarily want to include them here because we don't know those numbers quite yet. And so each location like Broken Arrow will have a different pass through and like probably like Mr. Greens with a higher density of highdensity housing that we want to maybe pass through some more to the school district or the county than the industrial location on the Romney's. But in any event, in all of them, if there's any retail, we want the sales tax pass through.

And this is just saying we will get the we will get the sales tax pass through. That would have gone to the port in this area. It will come to Grantsville. I mean, and ours is is highlighted. It's left blank, but this will say Grantsville City. Yes. I need some blank. Yeah. Yeah. This is add whatever you want, Britney.

Yeah. This is the template. Uh once the city council uh uh passes a resolution approving the memorandum of understanding, that'll then go to our board uh who will who will make a motion on it and then we will execute the the contract. I know we we went into this in a little more detail back in February, but um the monthly reports that are issued to the city. Um I mean obviously you're doing this elsewhere. What do those entail? I'm just trying to un get an understanding of what's involved in those I guess the first question. And then the second question I had was regarding um the pay those payments obviously um are those audited by the state as well in this process? Um correct. So the the sales tax collection that is a little different than property tax collection. Sales tax collection happens on a monthly cadence. Uh whereas uh property taxes are are are collected on an annual cadence. And so um every month that uh taxes are collected, we will be turning back those funds back to the city. um you'll you'll find that you know those amounts will will likely be really really small in the beginning. Uh they won't be super substantial. Um but you know as more retail comes into these project areas um as more sales tax gets generated even in an industrial area where they may have an outlet at a manufacturing site. Um if any sales tax is being generated you know we will we will remit that back on a monthly basis. And so you will get a report of what that remittance looked like. Um we're working really closely with the state sales tax commission. Uh the state tax commission um is is trying really really hard to um hopefully create a process where uh it won't have to come to us

first. It will go directly to the city rather than coming to us first. We're not sure if we can make that happen and and it's for that auditing purpose. uh we need to demonstrate that per this statute we did collect our portion of sales tax even though we have a memorandum of understanding where we remit that back to the city. And so um we're we're hopeful that we can automate the process so you know you don't have to think about it. We don't have to think about it. You get your monthly reports and and um and that revenue coming in like normal. Um, we just want to make sure that from a an accounting standpoint, uh, we're we're doing everything according to the law.

Have you ever done one of these that have the property tax written in with an article where there's some sort of understanding that each individual project or each parcel um that we'll we'll discuss what that what that looks like? So, uh, you know, we I think what you're describing would would look like an interlocal agreement. I think if there's changes that need to be made on the property, uh, tax level, uh, we would want to look into going into an additional agreement uh, with the city and it would look more like an interlocal agreement rather than anou. Um, this is a a a common of enough request that we've adjusted our policies internally to move to anou format to facilitate uh us being able to go into these agreements uh a lot quicker, a lot more efficiently uh than having to go through the interlocal agreement process which is a little bit different legally. Um the the the outcome is the same. you know, we we remit these these taxes back to the city as needed. And so if there needs to be adjustments on the property t the property tax side of things, um we we would just request we we engage in the interlocal agreement process to make any of those adjustments.

Can we have that written in here um in in this agreement? Yeah. Um I I guess I guess are there question that that you would want to engage in an interlocal agreement in the future just just it's a memorandum of understanding so an article of of a property tax just like sales and use tax to help future councils and future individuals with the city understand you know what what that is and where those agreements come from and where where that dialogue starts. That's kind of what I'm saying.

Yeah, I think that could be perfectly appropriate for this document. Um, if your team would like to suggest some language that you would like to include in the memorandum of understanding, um, we we can run that through our board.

I'd like your thoughts on it. So what we're trying to accomplish is set forth in the memorandum of understanding that uh in order to further negotiate the property tax percentages ratios we would um enter into some future interlocal agreement and that would be part of the the memorandum of understanding just so that we've got something on paper to say that at some future point if we want to renegotiate some of these ratios then we are going to use the the vehicle of a interlocal agreement that that we're contemplating that going forward just so that future future officials and uh uh city staff can can review this document and and know that that's the avenue to pursue if they want to address those issues. Is that what we're trying to do? I I think it's a great idea

because in for years when other people are sitting in these chairs then they have that to to reference back to and have an understanding as to what the procedure is to make those those adjustments as needed. Do you do you have any issue with that Stephanie?

I don't think so. Um it's it's always on the table for the city to uh to approach the port and engage in an interlocal agreement um with anything pertaining to our project areas. Um it's it's something we've done in other communities. I think Salt Lake is a great example. um you know, their project area matured to a point where, you know, they they needed to to sit back down and and renegotiate, you know, what uh what those those uh obligations were within the project area. Um what was needed by the community and how we could utilize those project area funds to help support the community. And so I it's always been on the table for the city. It always will be on the table for the city. Um, I think enumerating that within the memorandum is a great idea.

Perfect. Thank you.

Council is okay with with with me drafting that language. I can uh I can draft it, run it by city staff, and if if if uh if council is okay with us going forward without bringing it back, we can make those changes and uh just have that that that understanding put in one one additional clause within that of understanding. Tyson, do you see any issues with number 10 and 16 mostly about the jurisdiction being in Salt Lake County on number 10 and then 17 where it says or no sorry 16 that UIPA is not shall be liable let's see in no event shall UIP be liable to the city for any indirect in incidental consequential special or exemp exemplary damages arising out related to this agreement including but not limit to loss revenues anticipated profits even if UIP has been advised of the possibility of such damages Well, that's it. So, starting with number 10, um Salt Lake County being the the jurisdiction. I mean, that's I I I don't have a problem with that. We we do like to if if we're going to file something, we do typically file it with Tilla County, but Salt Lake County is still the third district. And really, the the way the third district works right now is they they kind of share cases. And so there's there's a chance even if the rope to Willow County here, it would would end up in Salt Lake County anyway. So I don't I don't have a

problem with with going to Salt Lake County disputed. Um, as far as 16 goes, the that that's a little bit more of a a waiver that we're looking at here. Um, we're not waving direct damages. What we're waving is um all of the uh indirect incidental, consequential and special exemplary damages, things like punitive damages. Um so I guess to the extent that um we believe that there there could be some downwind um indirect um loss, we we would be waving that in this in this uhou. Um but there's as as far as recovery of direct um um

damages, we would be able to to recover those. Um so this is the um the downstream impact of of some uh some negligence or um or a breach that that happens on behalf of of UEO would we would not be able to pursue any of those special types of damages that are consequential. So this is just a personal question. While you're standing there, could you give us a just a twominut? So when you were here in February, I was somewhat surprised and this is if this is my lack of education, I understand, but I was l I was really surprised that the Inland Port Authority had morphed into covering property that would be residential.

You know, we and maybe that's just visual driving by what's happening, you know, in unused areas and industrial kind of that arena. and then the presentation where there was a heavy residential component. Is that working? Is it full steam ahead? Is that being done in other areas? I just want a one minute update or is it going well?

So in in the in most of our project areas um that include residential, a lot of them are are in rural areas. Um, the reason that we've engaged in the re residential side of things is is because our our project areas need it. Um, and so if there's a a and and we always always take the lead of the community and so the the community approaches us and says, "Hey, we do need industrial, but we need a place for the the workforce to live." And so that's when we started engaging in residential at the behest of the communities that we're working with. Um similarly with the project that we're doing here in Grantsville, um we we take the lead of the city and we respond to the city's needs utilizing the tools that the legislature has given us. Uh the legislative tools we've been given are are broad enough that they can include things like residential. Um it it really is up to the city to determine what makes the most sense. Um we've we've had some good dialogue with the county on on you know what including residential in these project areas can mean. Uh that's been really beneficial dialogue uh since you know the the property tax increment that we collect uh it impacts the city and the county and the school district and you know all of the taxing entities that that are downstream. um we're sensitive to that and we want to make sure that we're we're focused on projects that have economic significance for your city and um we've we've seen it work in in other project areas as well. We find that the residential is complimentary to the job centers that we're creating in these industrial zones. Um and we hope it'll be the same here in Grantsville.

Thank you. If you guys were to terminate this agreement, what happens to the revenue that's already been generated or expected?

So, the purpose of this agreement would be um for us to pass through the sales tax revenue um that that is generated month over month. So, so you'll be receiving that money month over month. It won't be held for any specific amount of time. Um if if for whatever reason the city decides, hey, we actually want to capture the sales tax revenue for whatever reason, um we can use that revenue in the same way we use the property tax revenue for infrastructure upgrades for, you know, um whatever statutoal uses make sense within our project area, which is largely infrastructure related. um we we would just continue to allow that sales tax to flow throughout the life of the project. Um our our project area life has a statutory length of 25 years. At the end of 25 years, um we we dissolve that project. Um, if the project area dissolves before that 25-y year time horizon's up, the the sales tax would would be flowing through like normal as well. Um, so we would dissolve that that sales tax collection as well. And so, you know, in the case where um, you know, we're collecting it, we're going to have to, you know, demonstrate that we did collect it per the statute um, and remit it back. Since the project area has been closed, we we no longer have to demonstrate that we're collecting that. So, it'll just go back to the city. Um, so I I did that answer your question

in a roundabout way. Um I I I in a f if a future council decides to dissolve uh this this memorandum um you know we would we would collect that that sales tax and we would use it the way we use the property tax increment that we're collecting and we would put it towards the statutory earmarked uses of that of those funds and and we wouldn't be able or take it away from Grantsville. We wouldn't be able to use it for anything other than what's uh statutoily required.

Thank you. Mayor, I make a motion that we approve resolution 2026-26 approving the memorandum of understanding with the Inland Port Authority with the addition of an article or clause um directly after the sales tax which is uh article three sales and use tax um with a a heading of property tax and having attorney Barker uh draft that up and and approve that with staff and then and send that on to u the the Utah Inland Port Authority.

Okay, we have a motion by Council Member Butler. Is there a second? Second. And a second by Council Member Williams. All in favor? Thank you.

Okay, thanks Stephanie. Item number six is a public hearing item. Um it's a discussion and consideration of adopting resolution 2026-22 approving the expenditure of class C road funds for road department equipment. So we're going to have the presentation by our roads department first and then if there um are any anybody that would like to make a comment is able to do that following the presentation. So, we'll turn that um to Ben now, our roads department supervisor.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. I am Ben Henderson, the road department supervisor for Grantsville. Um been here since first part of January, end of December. I appreciate the opportunity. Um I come with a pretty strong background of asphalt maintenance and preservation. uh starting with my time at uh Bernal City as just a regular road hand and then moving on to South Salt Lake for several years, growing to a supervisor at that position and then moving on to Kemer, Wyoming for several years as public works director, running the airport and many other assets uh besides roads, parks, doing uh all those maintenance duties there. small crew similar to here uh with 70 road miles very similar to here as well. Um and then moving on to Duchen County where I spent eight years uh growing my extending my expertise and learning a lot of the traits that I have today with asphalt maintenance and doing uh reclamation projects with zippers. And uh I call I I love to call it zip and chip. So we we zip a road, we come back in and we can either chip it or pave it. There's just lots of different um applications that we can use in that. In this presentation, there will be several photos that we can if you have questions during this process, feel free. We can do it either buy piece of equipment that I'm asking for at the end, ask me any questions or we can wait till we get down to the bottom line and then go from there however you feel. So we can start going through the slides. Okay, we go back to that. that one is this this is just our strategic equipment investment to

maintain Grantsville's roads to reduce long-term repairs and cost which we are behind the curve on quite a ways in in the city. Um but we're going to get ahead of it pretty quickly. That's my goal. So um you can move to the next slide please. Then this is for a crackill machine which we just rented to get the ball rolling until we could get this equipment bought. We did complete about 93% or 95% of Anderson Ranches at this point by renting a piece of equipment. Um, we did not get a couple of those roads on the 26 list for crackill. That'll bring our PSI up dramatically once we drive that with our analytic system. And uh, so we just made a big jump on it. The thing that I did notice and our crews did notice that the cracks because I'm not sure how old Anderson Ranches is, but it's got to be plus 10 years, right? Um, some of those cracks sucked up that oil pretty good. So, that tells me there's voids already being created through the through water and so we've caught that, but we may be a little bit late. They may start sinking at some point, but we're we're we're at least doing something. So, and I and I would fear that any road within the city at this point, we just need to jump on and get ahead. So, the 5-year pro program would be to do about approximately 15 tons, which covers approximately 25 miles. It depends on the road, uh, how many cracks, what's there, how much sinking we're we're getting in those roads. So currently we started out with 16 tons and we ended up we had to give the machine back because they sold it. Uh we we have 3 and 12 tons left in the yard that we can put in the fall when things start cooling down. Crack seal needs to kind of go down in cooler temperatures. It's it's much better because the cracks are at their widest

at that point. So, um, if you have any questions on the return of investment, uh, we can go or any questions on this slide. Basically, for every dollar invested in a crack sealing project saves you about $48 in future road maintenance. Um, and I kind of ran off numbers of adding five miles per year. We currently have 95 miles in the in the city and uh, we'll be ending up at five years. That's assumptive. So 115 miles over the five years, which we'd have depending on that year, we would have somewhere between 35 and $40,000 in annual budget. And we can go to the next slide. It'll show the um so we bought crack seal this year under contract, state contract for $1,100 a ton. So based on numbers and throughout Utah is 12-,800 per ton for us to do our own material. If you contract that out, which we had even bids much higher than 6,500. I had one contractor bid the parking lot at public works was in excess of 13,000. So for one ton or three ton, excuse me. So um it could go higher than the $65 $6,500 per ton. So that saves us annually between 90 and you know or between 42 to 58,000 in annual. So we pay that machine back somewhere between two and one and a half to two years $85,000 investment and posing the you know the question is to lease it or rent it. It it just runs into the same problem. We only have two companies in the state of Utah that really rent their equipment and you're stacking with everybody else that needs

it. UD do is probably one of the largest renters in the state. So they get kind of first precedence. If we don't jump on it early and get it, we may not get a machine during the period that we need it. So it's this way we can attack other things besides just crack sealing. We can go out and deal with our water cuts which have kind of been neglected over the years. Not purposely, but it's there's just no way to they've kind of used tac in the past. It doesn't work very well, but it does work. Um but uh we can deal with other things at our at our leisure when we need to. Um when we have slow times, we keep the crews busy doing other things. So that's the crack seal investment. We can move on to the mask. So this is a picture of unfortunately our videos. We ran into some technical issues. I had quite a few videos on here. This was a drone flight of saddle when we first got started. It'll show you going down around saddle, but uh we didn't it it's not going to play. So, if if you want these videos, I'm more than happy to try to send them to you. They just didn't download very well. Um there's a lot of lot of file there. So, but this was a drone flight of saddle as our crews were doing it. Mastic has grown is growing in in uh popularity over the last seven to eight years really. It's been around for more than that, but popularity wise, it's really starting to take a grip. Um it's great for uh deficiencies in the road like potholes or starting of potholes. Um, when you have your meat lines for your asphalt, your cold joints, you can get in there and crack seal or you can mastic those and it acts as a much better sealer than crack seal in a lot of places. When you get a real wide gap, it fills that gap very well. Uh, it's chippable, so you can chip over it. You can m you can do your slurry seals, your

microsurfaces, pave over it. It's very it it it h works really well in that condition. So to contract that work, it's usually $6 a foot per foot, 120,000 a year based on my numbers of using 50 ton a year. Uh the annual savings if we buy this machine and do it oursself is somewhere between 40 and 80,000 a year. And the payback would be about 1.2 years based on that 50. 50 is an assumptive number, but that would be my goal to get us ahead. We have a lot of areas that we can do that. We can smooth out rides. We can do we can stack it. So when you have a indent in the road, you can put a thin layer over it, come back and another thin layer and it'll help you with your rideability. There's some pictures of the mastic going down in different generally you do uh drag boxes. They have one foot, two foot, four foot boxes depending on the deficiency. You can also hand iron it. So this is uh a truck that I found when I was at Duchen County. Uh the seme truck I believe was born for the for this environment small city. I used it in the county of 4,500 miles with about 600 miles of paving with our efforts of chipsill zip and chips. Unfortunately I had a video that showed the truck in use in Duchain but I don't have that didn't download as well. So it'll it'll handle chip sealing, gives ability to seal coat, fog, uh some other applications of oil, um scrub sealing, you can drag a broom behind it and come back behind that at a later date and chip over it and make a better road. And then multi-surface applications, just different oils. Uh there's a lot of different companies out there that offer us a lot of gamut on different oils that

we can use that will uh rejuvenate the asphalt, bring it back to life and give us the ability to cover it up when it's it the sun just beats on it. Vehicles, it'll help us with that single operator. Um that's kind of a huge thing.

That's a big thing. There's one guy running the truck. It's still an operation, but it's one guy running the truck. All one button push operation. You can It widens out 15 ft. It drops the oil one foot in front of the chip. So you you can release traffic a lot faster than trying to pull a train, the chip seal. I don't know if anybody's familiar with seeing chip seal operations. Usually there's 20 trucks, a big chip seals, you know, piece of equipment and oil trucks. It requires a big crew. This cuts your crew in half. You can really get it down to a roller operator, the truck operator, and then an operator to load the truck with chips. And then you have your flaggers basically, and you can cut traffic back on it fairly quick depending on the oil you choose. Within maximum a couple of hours, you can have traffic on that oil. So, yeah, that was the video. So, we can it didn't download. So, unfortunately, That truck is uh I did talk to the sales rep again. Uh I originated that conversation with him to get the numbers that I did for this presentation. I spoke with him today. They have one that's just stepping out of manufacturing in South in South Carolina. He thought it was ready to ship. So we have that truck being available at our if we choose to adopt it. uh pneumatic wheel rollers. They they call it a loader in this, but it's actually it's a pneumatic roller. You use it for chip roll your chip over. Lays the rock down into the oil for full emulsion into the oil. And then you can also use it for your for road widening projects and other projects that we need to do within the city, zip and chip projects. Lay that. It it acts just like a steel drum roller in some cases. It will give you a strong compaction. So, it's just kind of an allin-one machine versus doing steel drum. You can't

really roll chip with a steel drum. People do it, but it crushes the rock. And we're going to be using, my idea was use much smaller rock than I've used in the past. Duchang County, Lee County. Um, you were using anywhere from 3/4 to 58 rock because of the semi and oil fields that I'm used to working in. So they use a much bigger rock and that we use more I'm looking at more like a 38 or smaller if I can get it. So that's better for environment in the neighborhoods. People don't like chip seals in neighborhoods. I will not chip seal a culde-sac. It's just not a good idea with all the turning and the ripping of it. But you can do everything else pretty much all your straight runs and get that and then you can fog it with a a a good oil to fog it. Lock those rocks in and you don't get near the rough ride. you don't get all the skateboard problems, kids on their boards complaining about it. Uh, as well as then you can come back over and do a uh scrub seal. There's a lot of different things we can do with that. Your return on investment on that is about two to three years typically. And I had a video here too for the Timco 500. It's the strongest sweeper. It's what all the contractors are gone to for chip sills currently. the big granite construction and most everybody is using this particular sweeper because of its power to pick up. That video actually shows them dumping that road base on the road and showing it picking it up completely. Um over time you've got to do maintenance on sweepers, but it versus a sweeper we have that's the box is rusted. It doesn't have any vacuum. It can't keep a vacuum. We just don't we don't even use it. So, um, that is an all-in-one machine. What will give us ability to sweep the streets as well as sweep after our chip sills. The good thing about the Seekmier truck is it's very efficient. So, we don't end up with that big pile of rocks on the road that

you have to sweep off. It's it's tight. It runs a very tight rock and oil. You have very little waste with that truck. So, we I feel like we wouldn't have near the rock to pick up that you would in a regular chip sill. On that one, you're looking at about three year three to five years. Most likely in the end of the when you're paying that much money for that piece of equipment, it it's going to be on that four to five year range. Asphalt zipper. Um I'm I'm a big proponent for the use of those. Unfortunately, we had one and uh just needed other things and uh but we're going to I'd like to present getting it back. Uh there's a lot of things that we can do like South Street needs to be re rehabilitated. There's a lot of things you can do with rotoill um and just taking up old roads. Uh there's several roads that I would, you know, recommend that we go back. You try not to use it in high utility areas, but we can maneuver around those utilities or you just go up to them and then you you may end up tearing out some asphalt to get to that. But you just put rotomill back in. So, uh, if you're going to do a zip and ship, that's one thing or a repave. So, they call that, uh, reclamation, but, uh, in place reclamation. So, purchase price for the new updated version of the of the asphalt zipper comes with a water tank. It has It used to have a very cumbersome box that you'd have to mount to get to so you could either zip without the box or the box, but they've integrated that now to where the box is integrated in the system. It's not something that comes off. It's just part of the system. So, it's it's a much better machine than it was before. They the good thing about asphalt zippers, they they do spend a lot of money on bringing out the latest piece of equipment. So,

we could do, you know, my two two and a half miles is assumptive, but just based on what we have out there and what I'm seeing and we have roads that need to be treated. Um, even dirt roads we can do and a really good treatment with that as well. So, payback period on that piece of machine is between two and three years based on what we can do. So, these are pictures. The upper pictures are is a road that went to our gravel pit in Lee County that I did just before I left there. Um, one of many roads that we did and I've got over 100 miles that I did in Duchain similar to this. You'll see the rock is bigger because I mentioned that that's half to 58 rock. Um, but that is a road that's the before and that's the after. So that's that's what you end up with a double chip. Uh, makes for a very good road. And then you seal over that with a with a a seal coat to blacken it up. The lower pictures are from a friend of mine up in Boise. She uh is the public works director up there. That is a curb and gutter scenario with chipsill and fogging. So that's what it would look like with fog oil over the top of the small chip. And they use a 38 chip there down to a 5/8 or down to a 316. So, the key to it is get it fogged and get it covered up. Okay. Uh, water tanker. Um, many reasons why many uses for that, many reasons why it's good to water your chips down before you load them in the truck. So, that gives us the ability to wet those chips down a couple of days before we start our project because the oil loves water in rock. So, if you have some those soaked up a little bit, you don't want them drenched, but you want some moisture in there. Gives us the ability to to uh wet down our dirt roads when we need to grade them as well as keep dust suppression down and many other uses. We have, you know, we have a bunch of

rotomill that I just spent time screening with uh that needed screened out in our pit that was just kind of sitting there with big chunks. So we got a screen and went through that and ended up with quite a bit of that road to mill and I my future would be to hope get with you do and get as much of that that's available to us in the future because it it really is a good tool for building roads. You got to do it right and water's the biggest key. You'll see that as I I just built a ADA ramp out here at the rodeo grounds with road to mill and water. So you take a look at that. So, um, but so talking with Michael and working things out with what we want to do in the future with roads and widening roads and road projects, we went through the scenario of getting a greater or dealing with and I and dealing with a sales rep and doing my due diligence that the 275 CAT and the and the smart blade with the ability to hook up GPS is a really good version for us. cost effective wise if you're looking at over a half a million dollar investment for a greater can take that GPS system and work with it or this piece of equipment is $120 $130,000 GPS so um that gives you the ability to you know do your do your grading your 2% even without the GPS that the smart blade comes with the ability it hooks up it integrates with the machine it tells you your 2% your 1% your crimes your your digs it levels out. It's It's a very good system that CAT has CAT's got the best piece of equipment when it comes to that. So, this will give us the ability to do road widening projects and other projects within the city and save a bunch of money in contractor abilities or contractors, you know. So, pay back on that piece of equipment is about 2.2

years. So, two and a half years based on what we can save. And I'm looking at, you know, poss, we're looking at the ability to hire a uh supervisor and somebody that has the ability to work with GPS in the future. I can tell you my crews and probably some of the best crews I've ever had, too. So, they're they're very apt to pick that up as well. So, how many individuals do you have on your crew right now? Three.

Three or four, excuse me. And then yeah, and we're lacking the one supervisor, so it'll be six with me. I'm doing pretty good. I must say the guys with the number of people we have, we're doing pretty good. We bounce around a lot. That was a video of the blade with the w those wings open and closed so you can close the product and carry it. Gives you a lot of abilities. Um, late into this I found out we were probably giving our old truck, our old dump truck to the sewer department with their with their need with the new sewer plant. So, I put together the pricing for Freight Liner came in with the lowest bid for the cabin chassis. What we're what I'm recommending is we take the old stainless steel bed off the old truck, retrofit it to the new truck, and then we'll get all new plow mechanisms uh operational because it it doesn't old stuff doesn't integrate well with new trucks. So, it's just best we spend the extra money to get new plow controls, put a new plow plate that adapts to the current plow and sander that we have. So, uh with that savings, you're saving between 80 and 150,000 by not buying a truck with all a new bed, new plow retrofit. So, and then we are in need of some pickups in the we have a couple real old trucks in the road department that are two wheel drive. One's a two wheel drive that's got a it's pretty old and then the other one is it's well on its way as well. So, I'm recommending we move to 3500 crew cabs so we can put fuel cells in the back of them and give us the ability to fuel in the field versus coming back every day and refueling it. at the UD do shed. Uh it just gives us more mobility to do that. So that's why I recommend going to the 3500s. I've started getting bids. Uh some of the

first bids came back from I have a really extensive contact list with dealerships that I've worked through my times in municipalities as well as uh in my earlier life. My dad had a tire shop in Salt Lake for 40 years and I was outside sales for that for a long time and I dealt with every car dealer in the state of Utah. So I have a very extensive list of people that give me good prices. So initially the prices I set high but Dodge came in with under 50 for that truck for a gas truck. So, um, to and then we we're looking at doing a work box on one of them and that would boost that by about 13,000 depending on the box we choose. So, and then the equipment king trailer to pull behind our dump trucks, our bobtails. That will give us the ability to haul back hose. Uh, the track the min's double. With that trailer, we could haul two mini X's to one location if we needed to or stack them and move them around for different divisions quicker. And our, you know, some of our trailers that we have currently are a little underutilized size-wise and they're just they're not really the best trailer for what we're using it for. So, it gives us a much broader ability to haul a lot more equipment instead of road it. you know, we're roing our back hose and it it it gets expensive to to start roing equipment around the city as we grow. It's just probably a better way to go. And then my sign guy sometimes he's a lone wolf and this is a towbehind unit. It we did rent one from Home Depot has those and we rented one for just to make sure that it vested out and it it worked wonderfully. It doesn't do great or no augur really does great in rocky soil, but it gives him the ability to it's a

lot less maintenance or uh labor on him to dig a hole for a sign. So, we would make that the sign for signs and other stuff that we do. So, and then this is the cost of all the equipment together piece by piece and my notes or certain things. So if you guys have any questions based on that, I stand for questions.

You want to do the public hearing before questions? That's kind of what I was thinking, too. Let's uh let's hear if anyone's here to make any public comment. All right. And then we can then we'll bring you back up if that's all right. That's perfect. Okay. And or Christie and perhaps Aspen too with financial side.

Was there anybody who would like to make a a public comment on this this item after hearing the presentation? Anybody online? All right. Does anybody have any questions at this point? Would you like me to bring Ben back up? If we can have Aspen kind of walk through the finances, I think is where you're gonna go with that. Let's just go right there. We were reviewing the budget and the mayor

wants to utilize the the weather. So, we wanted to put this on the budget right now instead of waiting for the the new budget year to try and get ahead on this and start repairing our roads. What questions do you have? Kind of walk you through how where the money is currently and how much is there.

Okay. So, every month I send you guys a copy of our financials. Um, this is indicated on page two of those financials. About the eighth line down, it is account 10165. This is our class C road PTIFF. It's the PTIF 1425. Um, that's where our class C road money sits. And so, as of March 31st, 2026, there's $4,796,8501 in that account. Um, so sufficient to cover the $3 million price tag on these things. Um, class C road funds are basically distributed from the state based on fuel tax. Um, it's distributed based on population and miles of road. Um, so every city, county gets different amounts based on those two factors. Um it's really so that's where the money comes from I guess. So uh if you have questions there um but it is restrict before you go on to that would you just maybe make it just so that everybody in the public and even the council as well understands it's not like you can just take the class C road money and say oh well we're going to stick it into the sewer because we need a new sewer treatment. Just make an explan explain that segueing. Perfect.

Okay, perfect.

So, it is very restricted on how we use this money. It is a restricted fund. It's give it um it's distributed by the state and we it's state code R 926 if you guys want to look it up, but that's where they specified how we can use the class B, which would be the county, and the class C, which is our road funds. And it has to be for roads within our community. That's why we get it is to help us afford to maintain the roads that we have here within. Um so one qualifying is to purchase equipment and machinery to construct and maintain our roads. Um so all of these would qualify within that. It is specified that it's for road equipment. We can't just say oh this dozer's a road dozer and then you know someone else is always using it. it has to be specifically for roads like road maintenance. Um I think Ben did a good job to explain why all of that equipment was necessary for his department in roads. Um the one thing with that with it being the restricted fund is we report every year in our audit that we have those funds and they're restricted or we report that we've used those funds for qualifying events. And so we can't even really truly borrow from the road fund solely because at that year end you have to show that you still have that same amount of money restricted or have spent on a qualifying fund. So we couldn't even say well we're going to borrow from the roads fund for a couple of years and then pay it back. You can't. It has to be within you within that same year you have to show that you have 4.7 million or whatever our number is at that point restricted for this. So you you can't just use it to help you float cash from year to year. The state looks at that every year with our audit. So

thank you. Anything else? Does anybody have any questions for Aspen and the financial side of this? I do. So if we use this 3 million, which is a lot of money, we're still having enough money for other things, right? We're not going to like be draining our account. today something else. There'll still be 1.7 sitting in the PTIF and that's separate from um you know where we're Yeah. So there would still be every year usually

about 1.3 million every year. And the way it's been used before is the city went out and contracted with outside contractors, sorry, to come and do this maintenance for us. And this way we'll be able to do it in house. because we did we didn't have the equipment. So, in essence, we're going to get far more miles repaired or maintained or created as opposed to the contracted price, which it looked to me about three times higher than doing it yourself. Yes. And some some things will have to be contracted just because of

equipment. We can't buy every piece of equipment for something that we need. It's the right tool for the right road at the right time, right? It's the same. There may be some services that we need to rent a piece of equipment for to for our crews to do as far as applications um outside of what we're buying, but and then sometimes just because of workload, we may have to have somebody come and help us do certain things. Hopefully, we can try to tackle most of that. That's my my goal, but it it may be an inevitable that that's why we'll have some contingency for that. My goal is to try to trim that down dramatically.

Christie, could I could I ask you a question? Um, do you feel like that we've underutilized this fund over the last few years and and not done more with it? It seems like I mean it's obvious we have $4.7 million in that fund and maybe we've done all that we can do but could we have done more? I guess I want to say

um we didn't have the expertise with that we have with Ben now that for knowing what to do and how to do it either. So we didn't have the equipment, the manpower or the expertise. So again, we were given an amount and we would go out to bid and we would say we think we should do this much road or what to do with it and did it to the best that we could with that amount of money each year. So, but contracted out but contracted out

and I mean yes it's a big investment but um would you say what's the us doing it ourselves and having the expertise here with us which I think is great that we've got Ben on board. Um what do you think the I mean we saw a lot of savings a lot of numbers up there. So, is hiring a contractor three times more expensive, five times more expensive? I mean, what's your what's your thought on?

Like Ben said, there's some things we don't have the equipment to do. To do a full reconstruction, we don't have the ability to do it. It would cost us way too much time to do it. Even with renting the equipment, but being able to crack seal ourself is at least three times savings. And when it's not done, you just shorten the lifespan of that roadway specific.

Yeah. Just like we learned last night, we build a road to last 20 years, but if it's preserved by crack, sill, fog, slurry, those things, then it can be indefinite depending on the traffic. Of course, roads can break down if they're not built to the um level of use, but we can get a lot further on our residential roads. Let me ask you a specific road and whether or not we could do it. South Street, dirt road. Yes. So, is that something that with this equipment we could do South Street ourselves? So, he a year ago because that would have been a great bypass.

Yeah. Yeah. You're fine to come back up, buddy.

Yeah, that that would be really the perfect road for the zipper. Go in there, reclaim all that, bring in some fresh stuff as well, get it all blended in there very well, and then you can do a double chip and end up with that picture that I showed you from Lee County. So, that's one version. Or you could spend the money to pave it. That chipping it with a double chip is far less money to do costwise than it is to do uh overlay. So, and it'll buy you you a good double chip road should last you minimum 10 years with another application of chip within that 7 to 10 year mark. So, there's there's this technic curve. I may be using the wrong language, but there's a curve in the in our in our industry that shows new pavement from the time it's installed and it dra drastically starts dropping over 20 years. So you with the three-legged stool system at seven five to seven years you do your first application of some seal coat and you keep doing chip seal you might do an overlay or you might do a mill and fill at some point you can stretch you can and he mentioned that last night in the transportation that you can extend by bunny hopping that out there on that curve to you can make roads last 40 years initially by doing that between five to sevenyear treatments every and and extend the life of that pavement,

which is what you're proposing here with all that equipment. We run through it every five years.

And I've got the water truck. I found a water truck. I put 150. I did find a water truck here locally. It's the only one in the state of Utah. Everything else that I found is California, Arizona. There's a lot of these little 2,000galon trucks out there, but Kate Equipment has one and they've given us a price of 59,000. So I told him, try to hold it for me. I couldn't get him to commit, but that is possibly available at a much lesser cost than that. So, and I did the assumptive shipping because all pieces of equipment when I bought that uh chip truck in Duchen County, I negotiated Secier to pay for our flight out to South Carolina and all of our hotel stays and fuel to drive it back and it saved like $30,000 and they paid for the whole thing. I'm not proposing that, but that's just some of the things that we can negotiate.

Um, don't take this the wrong way. You're no spring chicken. So, I'm just thinking in my mind, here we're here we are. My hair doesn't give me away, does it? Yeah. So, here we invest $3 million in all this equipment and we have the the knowhow, the expertise. You're training individuals. Um, I'm just thinking of contingency plans on individuals, you know, having opportunity to rise up and Yep. and and take those positions. I'm big on planning for succession.

I train my guys for that. So, Duchain County, two of my guys that were under me are now leading that group that were under me under my succession plan. So, I do, you know, things change, life changes. It's nothing's solid anymore. So we do have the lead over tomorrow lead position where we do have the but I do plan for position open right now and if this passes tonight that's where we're going to go after and find um that replacement option in that person.

Do the wages um ask this question for you. Do the wages for this part of the public works department, do they come out of the class C fund or does that come out of a different

Yeah. So it it does get messy once we start talking about wages because it does have to be tied to a roads job specifically that they're working on. So like um we can so ultimately the guys will be set up to be paid out of streets instead. And then what we will do is monthly or quarterly we can go through and we'll basically audit our guys and what work they've been doing so we can have the backup support that we need to then say okay classy road fund can transfer into streets for x amount of dollars because that was how much work qualified for these guys. So like right now most of what I mean Ben is pretty I drive home and Ben's filling a pothole right? So like Ben even qualifies under the class cuz that's like he's out there actually maintaining our roads which does qualify. So it's because it's no different than paying a contractor. It's just we're paying Ben.

My goal is to be here as long as I can till I till I retire. But I'm here as long as need be. Long as you guys accept me, I'm here. So right.

Well, Ben, we're glad you are here. Honestly, I think infrastructure is one of the areas that we've lacked on and you see that as you as you drive around and how we take care of what we have and doing a better job at that. I I have a couple of questions. One of them is really more regarding uh other individuals that tie into our road systems and establishing and and maybe we have this already entirely and I'm and I'm just unaware of it, but establishing a standard for any tie-ins into our roadways, you know, that they that they have to mill and do it right. we're not just getting a little trench in there that settles and then we have a a jump that everybody gets to break their tires through. Um, I think establishing a standard and and in what we expect as a city is one of the things I know this is kind of off. The other the other thing that I'm I'm struggling with in my mind is is we it feels like the last few weeks we've made some pretty significant financial decisions as a city, as a council. And um I just want to ensure you know if we have four 4.7 that we're working with and we spend three of that on equipment, we really only have one point for materials or um to be I would I would like to look at this and and if and if this is the worst case scenario and we come through this I mean there are other there are other ways we can get equipment you know we get used um I don't know crack seal machine and mastic trailer or if those are equipment you want to buy used because you end up maintaining it more than right. So I think those make sense. Um but as we look at I just want to ensure that we have frugality in our decision making um in that in that process. It would be

nice to say, look, we spent $2 million worth of equipment and we were able to use $2 million worth of class C funds to to do the roadway you were just referring to and maybe maybe another um multiple roadways miles. So to try to get the most for our money. That is my biggest that is my biggest concern right now. Totally understand. So and but there is a need for it. Um I'm I'm I'm glad we have looked and addressed the rows. We've classified them in where where they need repair and and then we start prioritizing how we little bit

how we attack it, right? And and just hasn't been done before now. So, like I said, grateful you're here. Um, appreciate the time and effort into the presentation. My main concern was just getting the most for our dollar.

Be assured that I will be finding and searching out the best deals I can find. used, new, demo, whatever it takes. Um, I will thoroughly vet that that piece of equipment that I'm looking at to possibly buy used is topnotch. We'll we'll run it through our mechanic. I have a lot of mechanical experience myself. Bought a lot of equipment over the years. Um, I I have a lot of connections, so I would use every available contact that I can use to try to minimize. I just use worst case scenario numbers because it's always better to use that than try to tell you that I used a lower number and then come back and ask for more money. So

yeah, I mean you quoted a water truck 100 less than what you specified here. We buy two pickups for 50 versus I think I put them in there for 80. Yeah. 160. So there's there's a couple hundred thousand in savings right there. Um, do we have the current manpower to run all this equipment? Are we going have to hire more? I know we talked about we've got one opening. We're going to need to hire more. If so, how many?

No, I think if we just pan if we just plan it out properly and you utilize, you know, certain months to do the things that we can do like crackill in the winter time or or when we have colder mastic can be put down any time of the year. try not to do it when it's super hot. But so you just it's just a matter of me planning the proper attack method to go do that. Um 20 miles of doing a if we do 20 miles of chip ceiling, I could probably two weeks if we have everything lined out properly, we could do that within a twoe period every year. So really it looks scary as far as trying to plan it. But and then there's always other things that get in the way, right? There's special interests. there's things that we need to do for the rodeo or this or that, but it's I work personally I work every extra second with my crews bouncing back and forth. Um, we tackled one of the very first things I tackled when I came here was the disc golf baskets that were sitting in the yard for about a year or so and we've got those baskets installed. So, we're about 50% done with that disc golf park at this point and that's just working extra time when we've got it. So, it's just a matter of planning and processing that stuff and getting it done right.

But I think if we do need some more, I think we I would like to look at the option of getting like summer hires during the summer period, getting more opportunity for our youth to have those jobs during that time period because they'll be good at flaggers and shoving the rock and sweeping up the rock and stuff like that. So, that could fall under that and that's not a significant lift to get a lot of um summer hires. Yeah. And I have a belief in the road department, you're always 10 guys short. It doesn't matter how big your crew is. I've managed as many as 50 people and I'm always 10 guys short. So we just do what we need to do.

Um on these RO ROIs you've got um those true RO ROIs because they didn't there was nothing in there about fuel maintenance, insurance, depreciation, any of that stuff. So, I just didn't know if you took that into account on these or

just basically went through the cost, you know, appreciate or depreciation when you start looking at it, you maybe 10% goes into replacement per year. So, if you want to do a 10-year cycle, it's like that for instance, the chip truck. I I I can see with a small town that we have and the ability to grow like we are that the chip truck could be here for 20 years. So you can cut that down instead of 10,000 a month or 10,000 a year for replacement, you can cut that down to like 5,000. So in that assumptive, so we run everything off of FEMA in our in our uh I works. So FEMA drives what we can charge hourly to a municipality. We don't use we don't compete against the market. So FEMA rates assume labor, maintenance, all of that stuff as we put our time into our eyeworks every day that those numbers are in there for the equipment. So that gives us a little bit better idea of what and I I didn't I apologize I didn't pull those numbers. So but they're there in I work so we could do that but all those numbers like for instance I think our dump truck PS for about 120 an hour under fummer rate. So that is assumption of labor cost of maintaining it and other other things to go with depreciation.

That's accurate.

Um with Jake with the you know the the optics of we just spent all this money and I know they're different funds and I kind of went through I'm not an expert but I kind of looked through here. There was a lot of the things on here. I mean, a 30 ton trailer. I mean, is that do we really need need that? Um, the skid steer looks like it's top of the line. It's got climate control. I mean, there I think there's some things that we might we don't need to go to the top line of. We can maybe get some things for less to um, you know, save some money for supplies or or road different things that we need. Um, so I appreciate you looking at the truck and the water truck getting those down, but I I think we should look at I mean that 30 ton trailer. I don't

What equipment do we need for Well, if you're driving out to like what's the farthest like sheep lane? Sheep lane. You going to drive the skidster out there or like the your back hose and everything like that along 138. Everyone complains about or 112 the back hose. Are we going to drive them all the way out there on that regard? Everyone complains about how slow they go and so it's not safe to do that. And so putting them on a trailer like this will make it safe for that the road crew to do that. Well, and also the wear and tear on the machines to drive them. Let's just say we're building South Street because that example's been used. Um even to go from the public works building to South Street back and forth every day is that's putting quite a few

I'm not saying we don't need a trailer. I'm just saying it's 30 town. is that

we went yeah I went to the highest because we don't know what we're going to add in the future you know future we may need a track and we get into a 320 or 318 or something then you're going to need a trailer like that so if we have one we why we got the money to spend it unfortunately it's that type of situation for me I'm not not saying that I'm spending wildly but I just look at the future very similar to the traffic management plan we are we will need right now we rely on the county to come and take their track goes in. That will be a future expense for any municipality. It's just a must for drainage and it just gives you the ability to haul much more equipment. Even if we go out and lease something, we don't have to pay the cost of having somebody to truck that to us, which is extremely high right now. You know, a trip from Salt Lake for them to road one way is typically between $800 and $1,500 one way to mob. So that's a $3,000 expense if you have to rent something. So it gives us the ability to haul more. So as far as the skid steer, yes, you can buy cheaper skid steers. Um Caterpillar has this grater and this greater blade. That's why they recommended to me the the 275 because it has all the capabilities to run those. Those systems don't integrate with it's a CAT piece of equipment. will not integrate with a K Cabota. It won't it won't plug and play. We have that problem right now with Bobcat that we have. Somebody took an older piece of equipment that we had and tried to one of our mechanics or whoever it was tried to integrate the plugs to run a piece of equipment that was not a Bobcat piece of equipment and now we have that Bobcat down more than we have it operable because somebody messed with the wiring and it's caused a lot of problems with the computer. that particular skid steer. We were trying to use it out here at the rodeo grounds. It's it's gone

down on us about four or five times because it's got an electrical issue. So, you have to be very careful about thinking that I need to go buy a K Cabota. All those quotes from Caterpillar onstate contract, so they're already negotiated and to the lowest ability. And I just feel like you don't want to be crosssectioning CAT material with something else. And there's not a lot of those greater blades out there currently for some of the other manufacturers with that in with that integration. So,

and I do want to point out that Ben has done a fabulous job as far as being fiscally responsible and following purchasing policies. Like he's found items that are on state contract, which we encourage. That's the lowest negotiated rate you can get. That's why they're on state contract. um in collecting several bids. He h it's not like he just went and picked that's the one I want and has no justification for it. He has done expensive he has spent extensive amounts of time gathering the necessary bids or making the calls to get the state contracted price. So I just want to give Ben credit there because he has done a lot of work to try to get the most fiscally responsible option. Do we have a place to store all this?

It's going to be a challenge, but I've driven by it a lot, so I'm just curious. We We don't have a locked place to store this. Okay, I guess the next question that I had is is does this equipment need to be collected together or is there a phase one and a phase two here that we see or a phase partial phase this year, second phase next year? Does it need to kind of I mean I'm talking logistically what you need to do it. Um

really the the mastic and the crack seal trader would like to probably put those on board as soon as possible, but a lot of these things are not going to be like more than half of them are they're going to have to be built. So they're out there three to six months depending on the truck. The dump truck is probably 90 days to or so out. By the time we bring it back and retrofit it could be 120. So a lot of this equipment is going to stack out there. The chip seal truck is available now as I told me, but that doesn't mean we have to buy that truck today, right? Um, but it's available. So, it's just a matter of how we want to stack that and what we need right now to keep our crews busy, make things happen, and start taking those bites out of the settlement that we have. So, we can stage that any way the council sees fit. You know,

I I had another question on the class C funds. Um I just wanted to clarify for the public. Can we kind of can we go through how that how those funds come in specifically where we get them from, how they're just maybe Yeah. the definition of them. Uh yeah, we hear them a lot. I just Yeah. So it, like I had mentioned before, it's based on our fuel tax that everyone pays when they fuel up. The state collects everything and then distributes them across the state based on our mileage and our population. Um, yeah, the um, can I interrupt for one second, Aspen?

Last night when we were hearing the road transportation plan, they said they had updated all the miles of roads and turned that into UD do or the state. They turned it to us and we submitted that to the state. We So was that number up to the point that we will get an increased number of dollars already? It was only three more miles from the last time we submitted. Okay. So not a substantial difference. I just had that question last night. Okay.

But that is something that uh Christie submits every year as far as our road mileage goes to report that because that's on us to keep that up to date. So that is something that she updates every year. Um the population is actually based the state passed the legislation a couple years ago and they do the state through an extensive process that also is used for a sales tax but regardless that's how it's calculated. Um but so as far as it's collected also on our financials on the that packet that you guys get. So what's sitting in the PTI is there from previous years but you can see on page four under interlocal agreement we have our class C road fund aotment and you can actually see as that money is coming in to our like is being distributed from the state to us throughout the year. Um, and just based on this year's budget that was approved for class C roads, I mean 1.3 million was approved for spending this year um, in the budget that to be sure hasn't been spent, but that was the working budget that was approved by last year's council for this fiscal year's operating budget for class C funds. So, um, it was budgeted to spend most of what would have been collected this year in the aotment that we would receive by the state. But yeah, it just comes out throughout the year and you guys get an updated copy of this every month that you guys can watch that climb. But

and our goal is in this new budget year is to plan for replacement, start using that funds to buy the crack, sell the material to to actually use this on the roads going forward because it's in that way is not a lot of that doesn't go to the contractor's fee and different things like that. It'll go directly to our roads themselves. Again, I've been working with Aspen to create some new budget line items for some of the numbers that I've assumptive ran that we would be using for cracks and chips and asked, we should create line items for those so we know what we've got to spend. Some of those we're probably going to depending on the year, weather, whatever, we may have to flow one to the other to get it to work, right? It's always a it's it's it's a it's a moving target all the time with the with the funds, but I assure you that I'm real spot on about trying to keep my budget under control. I don't like to I've never in my tenure, I've never gone over budget ever. So, I have just two more questions. When um uh when do we get the class C road fund um from the state? What do we get it in July throughout the year?

Yeah, it's throughout the year. So, it's not like we don't get 1.3 million. It trickles in. Yeah. So, it's typically uh as Ben stated, it's typically a quarterly payment that we receive every quarter, just throughout the year as our years go on. Um, one thing to keep in mind is with potential income mean annexations or something that would increase the mileage of roads. So, we would be receiving a larger loan.

Then my my last question is that's once again to do with just the equipment costs. Um, if we do approve this tonight, can we get a reporting back and accountability of what was purchased? Um, I I'm assuming that, you know, with with this resolution passing that we're giving you the green light to be able to purchase what you need, but we'd like um kind of a return and report accountability of what were we able to get certain things for. Let's say you do find a street sweeper, you know, that's that's used in the market and it's $250,000 rather than half a million.

Um, which would make more sense to me. Um, and you're able to come back and say, "Okay, well, you know, this is what I did with those funds and those monies." And report back to the council. Yep. That'll be through as well as through PO systems. We can report that back to you however. Yeah. As things are purchased, Yeah. we would we'd like to have you I would like to have you come back. We can do that. And report back to us. No problem. I think maybe even a report of uh what projects have been completed along with the purchases that have been made and how that how many miles of roads.

Yes. How many miles of road were repaired so that we they did not have to be replaced and what we say what we estimate that we saved as opposed to having a contractor do that same work. Right. And right now we've done 24 just over 24 miles of Crackill for the 26 year. So that that was a big deal. Ben and Christie, is there this is just an observation, but I know we've been in South Willow Estates fixing a relatively new road that wasn't done right. You showed a picture of Anderson Ranch. That's the road looked terrible. And that's one of our newer subdivisions.

That's 20 years old. Anderson Ranch is 20 years old. Yes. Is it really old? It's never been cracked. It's never had a crack at all. Just shut one. Phase one is 20 years. Maybe where they were is was still part of phase one where they were on saddle road. That's phase two. I just want to make sure our underlying um quality is that we're inspecting our roads that our quality is better than ever. what we're getting out of contractors in the initial input of a road or stall road.

No, Gransville's come a long way from when I first started. We now have two infrastructure inspectors plus Barry that is here to help us. So, our roads are getting inspected more than they were when I first started. Uh South Willow, you mentioned South Willow has multiple problems. One of its biggest problems is the way the water lines were put in. It's our water lines that are breaking. They're making us continually cut into that road. So, at some point, all of South Willow will need to be reconstructed, but not yet. So, keep this in mind, though, for when she comes back for a while.

And right now, we'll just kind of attack South Willow with trying to patch what's there, fix what we can. I don't recommend we tear unless we've got the funds to work into utilities because the rule of thumb in municipalities it is is any road without a any utilities is always a million dollars a mile to to reconstruct. You start putting utilities into it. It's get takes a drastic jump to over four million per mile. And you don't want to tear into a road just to go and do the road because you start that vibration and the creation of all the equipment going in there to tear that up. You're just putting more stress on your water system, your sewer system. So you it needs to kind of be planned out to where it's either done in phases, one section at a time. It's going to take time, but um my goal would be to let's get started somehow. Can you can you tell me what kind of warranty comes with some of these new equipment that we're getting?

Generally, one year is most of most of the equipment unless the manufacturer like with a Seekmar truck. It's a Kenworth chassis. So, it would come with whatever Kenworth offers on their transmission. Sometimes it's four, you know, three or 36 extended on some of that stuff. It really depends on each individual piece of equipment. If we buy it used, we get basically what we do. Some companies offer an extended warranty for that. So, um that's where I really go strongly on trying to put my hands on what I'm looking at use to make sure that um we're not buying something that's been just shredded. So, one last question I think I've got and whoever aspen probably. So, do we have to go out and and purchase this equipment from the government contracts already negotiated or can we go out and find our own equipment that may be cheaper somewhere else? What's that process?

Yeah, absolutely. And Ben's worked on that, but the government contract that I mentioned earlier, there's various companies for anything you can think of that's contracted with the state um through uh UP3. it's their state contract um that is companies trying to get in the good graces to have low rates to get more business from municipalities. So you can absolutely go out and like you know bargain or negotiate other deals elsewhere. You don't have to use state contract. Um, we do steer towards state contract because typically that is the lowest price, but you can absolutely spend time and effort in looking for at other avenues and you may find a cheaper option which would be great, but state contract is typically already that lowest negotiated price that you're going to be able to find in the state. So,

I do encourage that we use someone that's reputable and is going to stand behind their equipment. You mentioned CAT. I agree with you. cat skidsters. They they sink after the dozers. Those are probably the most powerful minis skidsters that are out there. So, but they also have a parts department. They have they stand behind their stuff and if something goes down, they'll bring another piece of equipment out and drop it. And yes, so whoever we choose or the whatever direction we go, I just want to make sure that they stand behind what they're selling us. So,

I can assure you that Seek Meer with the chip truck is they're spot on with their customer service. They're out here. If you have an issue, they're out. They send a guy from South Carolina. The company originates out of France and usually their their service techs are French and they come out and they are they are very stickler about making sure that their name stays where it's at. And they they own BowG. They're they own some of the largest companies in the United States. So,

and there's just not another manufacturer for that particular Any other discussion? Thank you Christie Ben Aspen for all the information. Done a great job of getting that all put together. Mayor, I make a motion that we approve resolution 2026-22 approving the expenditure of class C road funds for the road department equipment. We have a motion by council member Butler. Is there a second?

I'll second the motion. We have a second by council member Skinner. All in favor? I. Is that everybody? Nay. Roll call. Council member Butler, yay. Thomas, yay. Williams, yay. Skinner, yay. Dalton, nay.

All right. Thank you very much. Uh, moving on to item number seven. This is also a public hearing item. uh discussion and consideration of ordinance 2026-16 approving and adopting an updated annexation policy plan repealing and replacing the prior annexation policy plans and providing for an effective date and we have Bill here to talk about this and after the presentation um there will be a time for public comment if you would like to make is that true yes it is okay

so we talked about this um a couple of meetings ago and we have since uh adjusted according to state codes noticing requirements and so uh that's why we're seeing it again tonight. Um I don't have much more to add to it. Um it's uh they're in front of you and so if you have any questions let me know. Otherwise uh you do have the planning commission recommendation for approval on this as well. So um we're uh for the public since it is public hearing we do like an initial overview of what it is. Yeah, of course. So um just to uh reiterate what we spoke about uh month ago, was it two meetings ago? I think it was two

two meetings ago. Last month um we spoke about this and uh the annexation policy plan is intended to be a guiding document for annexation in Grantsville and in the the unincorporated area surrounding Grantsville City. Um there are certain areas that we have designated areas A, B, and C that uh will uh be for consideration when the time comes for those areas to develop and or be annexed into a a neighboring municipality. What this does for us is is state that if those areas were to be um developed out and had interest in annexing into the city or if the city decided we wanted to annex property into the city. Um this this uh sets the stage for that and enables us to go out and grab those lands as they come in. It doesn't create any obligations for the city. There's no um infrastructure look out there that we would be required to do. It would be understood that as these property owners and developers uh look to develop these areas that they would hook on to our existing system and bring water shares and and other infrastructure with them. So the burden would uh the initial burden at least would not be on the uh city. It would be on the properties to be annexed into the city. Um, state code requires that if we have the annexation policy in play, that we have an annexation policy in place and that it uh governs um how property is pulled into the city if and when that time comes. Again, this isn't uh intended to be any kind of uh land grab or any kind

of um indication of where we want to go. It's it's saying these are areas that we can see as being part of the city and being a valuable part of the city at some point in the future. So uh it also helps to uh guide additional uh adjacent communities claims on property that may be uh annexed in uh to adjacent municipalities. So um we would uh have the first right of refusal as it were on some of these other properties if um other communities wanted to look at that. I got it. Thank you, Bill.

You bet. And I think at this point we'll open it up to public comment. If anybody would like to make a comment on the annexation uh policy plan, uh now is your time. And if you're online and would like to make a comment, please raise your hand. Anything online, Alicia? Okay, we will close that public hearing and we will turn to a discussion with the council. Is there anybody who has anything they would like to add or questions or concerns they would like to raise?

This is the same one we looked at though. This this hasn't changed from what we looked at. We just did pushed it off to do the public comment hearing, right? Okay. because it's amended. So, I didn't know this was this but this is the same one we've looked at and we're following all the statutory provisions. That's

Tyson, you've reviewed this as well. We've seen it. Okay. any concerns on it or questions?

No, it's a this is a this is a benefit for the city to adopt the the annexation policy plan. We're required to do so by by code and it also sets the stage for um for for future potential for the city. It doesn't it doesn't lock us in or bind us in any way. Um but what it does do is for example, If a property owner from one of these extr territorial um pieces of property wanted to annex in this doesn't automatically give them an entitlement to coming in. They would have to engage in the in the normal process and they'd have to meet the criteria that was the the go through planning commission to come to city council and uh we can even engage in annexation um agreements with them. So, so that you know there's a there's a a benefit to bringing new new uh new parcels into the city as opposed to a detriment and liability of the city.

Thank you. Mayor, I'll make a motion that we approve ordinance 2026-16 approving and adopting an updated annexation policy plan repealing and replacing the prior annex annexation policy plans and providing for an effective date. We have a motion by council member Dalton. Is there a second? I'll second. Second by council member Thomas. All in favor? I

All right. Passes. Thank you. Um item number eight, consideration of resolution 2026-23 of purchasing the approving the purchase of a sewer vector truck and authorizing partial funding and financing. And this will be presented by Marcus and Christie from the public works department. Thank you guys. Sorry. Go ahead. Okay. Uh so Gransville City is looking to purchase a sewer vac truck with partial funding. Uh each year we grantsville city sewer department uh budgets to clean the the sewer system. Grantsville city has approximately 90 miles of sewer sewer system.

The cleaning of that has been going on recently. Right. That's what I've been seeing on the Yeah. Okay. We we actually currently have a small ram jet, but that uh is was built in the it's a early 90s uh jet roer. It does not have a back setup on it. Okay.

So, we we really don't like to use it too much because once you're jet rotting the sewer, you're actually bringing stuff down through the sewer system and you have no way of vac back trailering out. This truck would actually back trailer any heavy material, gravel, uh sludge, grease. Uh we're also looking, this truck can also also be used to clean storm drains and it'll have a hydro excavation package on it too. So it'll actually help with water jobs uh as well. uh we have we approximately have about 1,600 manholes in our system and uh we would like to take partial payment and uh every year I'm I think about the next five to seven years to to pay for the loan. So every year we have to to budget for this anyway. So we're looking to take that budget and just put towards a a financial loan on this.

How much are we paying for the cleaning every year? So currently we budget about $90,000 that goes towards cleaning the sewer and it only cleans a portion. This way we'll be able to clean all of the sewer with our team every year.

And each year with the increasing size, new development, whatnot, we we have to ask for more each year. And unfortunately, we don't it's still not enough to clean what we need. And the sewer system needs to be cleaned. It's something you don't want to you don't want to clean. cuz if there is a backup, it can actually it could be very costly and I would like to be or actually not have any backups. That's my main goal is try to avoid backups as much as possible. Has anyone ever had a backup in their basement? I have. So you don't want that?

Unfortunately, they do happen, but we want to try to avoid this as much as possible. And when we have emergencies, it's harder to get a get someone out here now. Uh the contractor that we use, they're a great company, but it's if you want them out here the next day, you're it's not going to happen. So, it'd be a good truck to have. Uh and if we do have emergencies, uh we'd be able to be right on top of it. I I had more of a question regarding the functionality of the truck itself. I mean you can use these to locate lines etc. Right. Yes.

So hydrox. So would that classify I'm not would that classify as something that could be used in another department? Meaning could this classify as a class C if it was used in that setting or no? Or am I outside the this truck I mean Christie can speak on this but this truck will be used mainly for the sewer. for the sewer. Yeah. And the storm drain. Okay. And for water lines, too. Right. Well, we have a back trailer that we use right now on a lot of our water jobs. But you don't want to crosscontaminate when you're cleaning. So, and it is a lot smaller and we have lift stations that are 30 foot deep and that won't do anything, okay,

to clean our sewer. So, this suction pipe will be an 8 in pipe. So, it'll be mainly clean grease and a lot of other fun stuff. Do we have the expertise to be able to run this truck? Yes, we do.

I have the experience. Uh I work with a a contractor every year. Have been for years. We've actually already we're continuing training. We've already had training and we're going to continue it even when we purchase this truck. Are we going to need to hire? I mean, there's always more need for for for more help. Um, when do you anticipate that there'll be uh more hiring due to purchasing something like this or any sort of needs? Will there be anything like that? Not currently for with the purchase of this. It will come when the new sewer treatment plant comes online.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When the new sewer plant comes, we're looking for one guy. But currently, we have uh men to operate this truck. You're running the sewer treatment plant, right? I mean, to a certain extent. Yes. Yeah. You can't can't be all places at once. I try to be a great job, Marcus.

I'll just say too, Marcus has gone out. He's went to other municipalities, looked at more than one truck, and have settled on this would be and went off of other recommendations that this would be the best purchase. Can we use this in storm as well? Same. Yes. So, you probably mentioned that, but I missed it. So, okay. Ask what other municipalities you went to. Uh, Riverton, Eagle Mountain, uh, Salt Lake, uh, Spanish Fork, Spanish Fork, Harrisville. I I Twilla. I met with them several times. I tried I got a whole list.

They have trucks similar to this or was this their recommendation because they had No. Yeah. So we went we actually a lot of cities actually will have a truck just for storm drain and they'll have trucks just for for sewer. So you kind of have a mixed bag there. But talking to many operators and and what we experienced this truck would be best for cleaning sewers. Um you don't want to go cheap on a back truck. I mean it is a lot of money but yeah you you buy the wrong one and it just doesn't work. Yeah. You don't buy used. No. No.

Yeah. There there is used options out there but these are they can be costly. Everyone has said that there's a reason why they're used. So and for sale want to buy a new one and you want to buy factors the best. So, so the plan is to use 300,000 of the budget and then loan out the rest. Do a loan for the rest. 100,000. Oh, I thought it said budgeted. So, there's 200 in the budget line right now. Oh, so we're going to use a hundred of that and then the rest will be on a loan of 70. That's correct.

And 90,000 we're already paying to have somebody else come and do a portion of our sewer. We can't do it all because that contracted amount doesn't cover 90,000 doesn't cover the whole city and that 90,000 will go to the loan to the loan, right? And that will cover the loan for the Okay. Plus the 100. So plus the 100 that we have. Yeah. That we're we have 200 in the budget right now. So we'll use a hundred of a down. And then we'll have to budget uh the payment plan. Did I don't include that? I think it's about 110 per year.

So, in the past when we've had an issue like obviously these issues get larger by the second. So, um how have we addressed that not have I mean obviously we have a piece of equipment that we've been trying to use. Has that worked and so we we're at the behest of how we can get a another machine. Yeah. whether it's been Twin D or Twilla Valley Pumping or whoever, we can get out here as as quickly as they can come. And on those emergency calls, they're about 5 to $10,000 every time I have to call them to come to do that. And that could be just a onetime deal. Yeah.

But this truck will then take care of that. We won't have to I feel like I'm in a man's world. Sorry. um any sort of uh additional insurance, liability insurance that we may need to have or cover by us doing it that a contractor takes on themselves that that may may we may not already have in place that coverage.

What you're saying is by using it and if we cause a problem by using it. Yes, that's because the contractor would take on that liability if they caused an issue. Just curious, we carry like so obviously the vehicle would be insured through city and then grful city does have like a general liability insurance policy already placed into the trust that we pay for that something if it did become expensive would come into play. So we it would be covered under that policy that we do our pay for it at that place.

I think from a liability standpoint though and I I just needed to ask the question but sucking the bad stuff out actually eliminates the liability because that's the liability. So I mean that's why we're doing it sludge. Did you look into any other suppliers besides own like Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And they Yeah. So, we looked at three I'll let Marcus speak.

Yeah. So, we we spoke with a couple other companies. Uh, one truck was pretty close to this price. One was a lot cheaper uh by about 80,000 but it the truck was smaller and we're looking at doing a 12 yard truck so it haul more. There's some areas, you know, getting out there and coming back and forth hauling the material back does take a little longer. So, we're looking at a 12 yard truck. So if you actually put 12 yard on that actually come out to about the same price. But we did go through three different trucks manufacturers. And Owen is also on state contract. So the best price.

I don't know though. Does the government really pay the best price for things that that's why I asked the the UP3 up UP3 website and and the the process that everyone goes through to to get those state contracts, they do have to bid those out and and they um they get the best price for whoever submitted. So in answer to your question, they go through like a bid process similar to like we would on a project. The state does something similar to determine a contractor that would be on state contract for the items or supplier. Yeah, exactly.

This truck does they did it does come with fiveyear warranty on it. the truck itself. Sorry, the vac truck and then Freightlininer will be the truck and that'll be through Freightlininer. But the vac truck itself has a 5year warranty on it. Bumper to bumper.

No, just on the vax back equipment. Anyone have any other questions or comments?

Mayor, I make a motion. We move to approve resolution 2026-23 approving the purchase of a sewer vector truck and authorizing partial funding and financing. We have a motion by council member Thomas. Is there a second? Second. A second by council member Butler. All in favor? I say nay. I think it's overkill. Okay. Uh, roll call. Council member Butler, yay. Thomas, yay. Williams, yay. Skinner, yay. Dalton, nay. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Item number nine, consideration of resolution 2026-21 approving the surplus of a decommissioned police department vehicle presented by Chief Sager.

Mayor, council, thank you. Um, I'm looking to offload something, not pick something up as come to its depreciation time. We had two that came came forward. We're able to mechanic thought we could use one transfer it to code enforcement because it's a part-time job and and this one was recommended for surplus. So, it's been in our fleet since 2018. It's just got under 100,000 miles on it. It has some mechanical issues that uh Riley didn't think was worth fixing and time to get what money we can out of it. So, that's what we have. Can we walk through the decommissioning process really quick? That's news, a little bit new to me as far as what processes followed there.

Last year, we presented it um in the budget that I would need to looking at these two. So about a year ago, I was looking at this and then once once we were approved for new vehicles, then we started we kept these until the new vehicles were up and running and then we started tearing down all the equipment, the older equipment that either work that can be put into the new ones or that the electrical equipment goes out and you just kind of have to replace. So it kind of goes by each vehicle. Like right now I drive a 2012 truck and I I'll probably be in that forever just because I don't do the wear and tear that patrol does, right? Because this was a patrol vehicle. It's out running around all the time. Investigation vehicles are a little different. So decommissioning is a little different on those. We'll keep those a little longer because they're not out running around, you know, um going emergency calls and things like that. But the patrol vehicles, they have a little bit tighter um window and it just depends on the vehicle, but they usually last up to five, six years. Um, some of them can be lemons and we get rid of them sooner. So,

and then if it's approved, then it goes to public auction and then it's auctioned off public auction website. Yeah, Marie will take care of all that. Um, a city staff member over here. Any idea how much we may get for a a Dodge Ringo like this? I don't know. I watch auctions quite a bit. I I would say I'd say minimum 10. Yeah, I would think depend. I don't know. The economy is a little different right now. So, it's kind of Yeah, we see it everywhere else.

But the ones I've I see 10ish, I would say. Last year, I estimated it uh up to up to 15, but I just don't think it's there yet or this year. That's just my guess on what I've seen. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Thank you. That sounds good. We're actually making some gummy. Let's put this towards the back track that goes through. I know. I know. I don't know where it goes. I would hope it goes back to equipment to put into the new ones, but it goes to general fund wherever it goes from there. Yeah. There

you go. We'll try to get it back to you. Mayor, I make a motion. We move to approve resolution 202621 approving the surplus of a decommissioned police department vehicle. We have a motion by council member Thomas. Is there a second? I'll second the motion. A second by council member Skinner. All in favor? I. Thank you. Thank you. Agenda item number 10, presentation of a concept plan for the Sunage Terrace subdivision phases 4 through six. And just a reminder, this is a presentation and discussion item only. We will not be taking any action on this agenda item tonight.

So do we have you have the concept? Do you have that Alia? Oh, this is Well, this is the only thing. Okay, that's Yeah, that's pretty much what we were looking at doing. Um, I've been working with staff for quite a few months trying to come up with a concept that works here for us. Uh couple of things that we ran into was on the very far west side the staff is requiring us to put that main collector road in. And they felt like it wasn't fair to push half of it onto the neighbors. So they requiring us to put the whole road and I can't remember how wide is the road.

Yeah. There how wide that road that be? It's a 90 foot road and then Main Street. How wide is Main Street there? 108. 108. Yeah. See, Main Street kind of starts there and then it has a jog.

We weren't in the first couple phases we did, we didn't do 108 foot wide road. So, we kind of ran into some issues there of we lost quite a few lots and then uh we they wanted some connectability up there onto the north to Matt Canyon which cost us another lot. So, what we were what I was coming to the city council tonight to propose is this is requires halfacres. It's a halfacre density. Um, everything in yellow is halfacre or larger. And we were wondering if they would guys would give us a small variance. The the lots in the black are 20,000 square feet or just over 20,000. So, just barely smaller than a half acre, but it still overall is halfacre density. But by putting all the roads in and stuff, we did lose quite a few lots and we're trying to get it up to a minimum of 128. So, is there any other questions? Oh, we do have uh some open space that's going to be maintained by an HOA. Um it's approximately I think it's 8 acres 8 7.8 acres I believe. If I can read this. Yeah, 7.8 8 acres of open space that we will have while walking trail in.

Can you point out where that would be? Yeah. I mean, I see the area at the end of Apple Mill Road. I'm assuming that's where you're Yeah, it's kind of hard to see in yellow. So, there's some open space here. There'll be a drainage ditch that comes down through here and then there'll be a walking trail. I don't believe it's on here. I think it comes down and then comes around here. A walking trail and then this will be some open space there. Well, there on the end of that Apple said about seven acres.

Yeah, just over seven acres. So, you're you're asking for 128 lots. So if we had the road if the road wasn't if you weren't being required to do the road width where where were your lot numbers before that? 128. So you're just trying to keep the same keep put the roads in that are being required. Yeah. The wider roads, right? Trying to to do that.

So there is no increase in density. There is not. No. They would just be a little smaller than the half acre I think that's required in that zoning. I think at 21,780 square foot and these would be just like 20,500 square feet or you're talking 15600 square feet total. Yeah. Total. And this road on the left would that be that nag green loop? I'm sorry. The left of ultimately we connect over with the larger network that we're trying to build that we discussed yesterday.

Yeah. And and that is the loop though I'm not asking you. I know you're going what are you talking city staff green. Thank you. Arterial classifial. Just a question I guess I have on the opposite side of what we're calling Who is the property owner there and why is it being pushed onto his side?

It's being pushed on. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah, I can speak to that. So, Matt Canyon um borders the next development up. That's the uh um Matt Canyon development. Okay. So imaginatively named Matt Canyon Development. Um this is that road of existing homes that uh moves to the south from off of Matt Canyon. Taylor Road, I think it's Taylor Road. Yeah. So uh these are those homes on that. So there are existing homes that will border this. Correct. That's why we're pushing this over. That's right. Okay.

So it has to be unless we wanted to go in and condemn everyone's backyards up there. um which is uh not popular. It's not popular. It's possible, but not popular. That's a good way to put it. I'm for it. Um unless you get your 128 units, right? Yeah. I understand.

Uh Larry's been good to work with. I just wanted to comment on that. He's he's been responsive to staff's concerns and requests um as we've worked together to modify this into something that is uh equally frustrating, equally desirable, equally uh beneficial for everybody. And um it's uh it's been an iterative process as we've worked through. uh he's got a few phases of the development that he's already installed uh as indicated, but uh as we look forward to finishing these ones out, um this is what his request is. U staff does have a concern in that uh if we do allow for a relaxed application of this, it would probably need to be put into a master development agreement that would do uh a couple of things for us. it would lock in his entitlements and make sure that this layout is is guaranteed and um not subject to future changes in the ordinance. But it would also um allow him to have the the flexibility to come in under the uh required uh minimum square footage for the zone which is exactly one half acre. So the the 21,07 whatever um again it doesn't need to be a big science project that way but it it would be something that we would need to do in order to provide that flexibility from the strict requirements of the code for lots 319 320 and 321 are those already built

just off of Apple Mill Road right out of that culde-sac um everything outside of the blue line. The the darker blue line. 319. Yeah. The bottom of that culdeacite, right? To your left. Down. No. Down the south. The No, the three to the your left. Okay. No, they're not build. They'll be part of phase three, which is

has been approved. We're just working with staff to get the construction drawings finalized and get started on those. But that phase three had been approved a year ago. I asked I think it was brought up in planning commission too. If we're going to make these lots to the north smaller, is there any way we can make those three lots smaller to get so there's not that jut in in Main Street? Is that something you'd be willing to do or No,

I mean, I'd be willing to do it if it didn't delay my start date on when I could start on this phase because we're pretty close to having everything ready to where we can start turning dirt and and going along. I mean, I think it would be nice. I know, uh, staff has asked if we would straighten the road out, and I think if if we could work with, uh, if they didn't hold up our phase three approval, I mean, I I don't think it's a big deal for us just to draw a straight line across the construction. The hard one is going to be this one that is just off of the

Yeah, that one there because that's already sold. So, um I mean we could we could do something to make it a little bit less of an abrupt shift here, but it doesn't really get us a whole lot. Um this is a 33 foot cross-section here. That's what that number is up. You can't see it. How big are those lots there, Bill? They're bigger than a halfacre.

Yeah, these are 22,000. That's 21. So, this is just over. This is just over. This is a little bigger because it's got this over here. Um, yeah, we would like it just for aesthetics, but as far as the flow and function of the road, we're not going to be gaining that much uh additional uh capacity out of those three lots to make it worth a big fight over. But we could smooth that out.

It would smooth it out and maybe look aesthetically more pleasing. But we could also push that little dog leg over to the west just a little bit more. So that smooths it out on on the property that um is not involved with the phase three because we have the open space there that we could maybe take that smooth that dog leg out into that as well.

Yeah, if if necessary. That something we could look at there. Is there anything in in this agreement that states that 128 lots um is the maximum. I mean, I'm seeing it here, but I just want to make sure that it like this is where we stay. 128.

Yeah. We don't have an agreement, per se. We would have to enter into an agreement that would protect his interests and entitlements as well as give the city what we want. Um that's typically how this kind of thing is done. you get a a little bit of a relaxed maximum or minimum square footage rather um on those lots so that they come in and and um the number of units is what is protected not necessarily the square footage of each one right

so and I'm not sure how the math works out but it's approximately if I can read this 80 that's up here in the corner it gives you that's 90 92.5 five seven acres and I'm not sure exactly how the math would work out on if that was halfacre lots. I think I did some napkin math and it was about 132, but you have to take in the roads and stuff. So, we're only asking for 128 We're just looking at Google Earth. Sorry. You guys got any questions?

I'm trying to orient the edges of this how they tie into what we currently have. So, are those north plots that backside that's going to be Matt Canyon Road right there? Kirk. Yeah. No. No. Um maybe I need to Google Earth too then. So it's going to be on the top. This is Main Street here. This is the extension of Main Street. This is West 138 goes up this way. Then you have there. And then that canyon is you've got the subdivision above subdivision to the north. And then on the other side of that is where Desireette starts. So the homes on Taylor Road, where do they align with? I'm trying to see where they align with the edge of this property.

Right. And they all have larger lots. So on the left hand side is that that's what I right along that side right there. Right. And then this is that that other subdivision that's gone in with the much larger lots. They're like several acres. Yeah. They're five plus acres. Yeah. So 10. Yeah. Unlikely to and unpopular like that. unpopular to take 45 ft of their backyard and only require him to do 45 ft of the half width on his property, which is what he's done here. That's 45 ft. This is 33 and this expands to 45 right through here. So,

you want me to put this up? Yeah. Yeah, sure. a little more to the west if you would please.

Yeah, that road properties there. You can see that the open space that's to be dedicated is this gully that's right through here. So that would be

where that open space dedication would be those uh a little bit down through here and then Main Street you can see would come over this way and Yeah. Anybody like to make a motion? Anybody have any other question? Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. I'm the one that said it. We'll take a motion. Yeah.

Okay. Could could I just give um just the other council members um who may not have been here when you were in last um you brought forth a um a plan previously that had more density, right? plenty of open spaces, parks, and um at the request of of the the citizens, the neighbors, and even the city council, we directed you to just go with the halfacre lots and just build um build build what you had. So, um just kind of an FYI, that was the direction we gave him in early 2025, probably maybe late 2024. Yeah. Something like that. Been

going on for quite a while. Yeah. Yeah. And Derek, you were involved with planning and zoning um with all that and I think planning and zone was pretty much on the same page um with city council. So, any other discussion if this is not something we're going to vote on tonight? Does anyone have any other direction to give? I guess I had a question on on Brett. So, you're saying is this closer to what the city council wanted and this is closer to the direction we gave them? Yes. I mean, yes. Well, we would always like more open space. Um Yeah. I mean

I mean to me the lots still there's still all at least 20,000 square feet. They're all they're just under half acre. The black is what we're looking at, right? That are the within 5%. Right. It's not Yeah. I guess what I was just seeking tonight is just to see if this is something you guys can get behind before I go throw a whole lot more money in the engineering and then come back for final approval. Yeah. Then for guys to say, "Oh, no. It doesn't meet requirements." So then he will be taken on the full road of That's right. Yeah. Which is huge compared to because usually it's split happen.

Yeah. And we can't front anything on Main Street or Nigraine. We can't have any lots fronting that. So that's one of the reasons we did lose some some lots on our original layout. We did have some fronting onto that road. So that was one of the challenges as well. Alicia, can you move that back to see Main Street? So as far as the buildout of of Main Street, because none of this is I mean this is just a dirt road, right? This Main Street. Um no, Main Street is up until you get Oh, yes. Yes. Uhhuh. So will you be building out the full build out of Main Street as well or just one side?

Just one side. As far I understand correct, Bill, we just it's uh it's a 108t road. So we are putting in you know 54 feet which which is a big road. Yes. But the full width of the Green Street. Yes. Okay. What's between lot 511 and 12? Um, where's that? Oh, that is an access road to get to Matt Canyon. Um, staff had thought we should have a uh a road halfway through so it's not I think Bill's words were it's it'll be a racetrack. Yeah. If uh you don't have connectability people get going too fast.

So that so you won't be responsible for any of Matt Canyon Road. So Matt Canyon Road is not directly behind these lots. Is that correct? That is correct. It's a ways further. Yeah. There'll be houses from Matt Canyon that border up against those. Yeah.

I think the only question I have is just more in line with the visibility of the open space as far as what that entails. Um I know we've one of the main desires I I'll speak for myself uh regarding new developments is ensuring that we have uh trail systems that are interconnecting. Um I know that is one big request from residents is one. So, I'm sure it's a selling point for new residents is having a space to be able to walk and and trying to have some interconnectivity from one uh subdivision or development to another would be also of interest. And so maybe just being able to visually see what that is. Uh because this is new to me. It's not new to some of the other members members of council, but just being able to see what that would be and entail that. I don't see anything here. I mean, I know this is conceptual, but what does that what would that look like or

Yes. Um, that's a good question. We did have a trail system on the a concept that we were working with staff on. Okay. Um, so there is a trail and I think uh it comes through those yellow down there and then around and up through the open space. But we can, you know, we'll we'll we'll put a trail system in. I know that is something that that staff has recommended we do. I think city council two years ago had had requested a trail and we had incorporated that in there but we just didn't put it on this concept and so there will be a trail system in there and that will go to

no it won't go over to it'll come up it'll come I think if I remember Bill didn't it come down through come down through here I believe was it here I think it came down through here like this and then down into this open space and then over like that is how I thought we had it right. remember. Yeah. So, so he he did have an iteration where

he had trail network kind of going through the middle of lots. I think in our last vision we asked, you can imagine that 10 foot wide thing between these lots right here and it's kind of a vandalism alley or whatever. So, we asked him to to put the trail system through here. I know. And then I think that was the extent of it. It probably came through here and then up to this street, but we didn't think that that was the best just just like secluded, you know, people tag, whatever between two fences. So, but that certainly could be a different away, but that's kind of the latest direction that we we thought might be a good idea is a trail system along this goalie way.

And it would go up through that goalie way and then tie into that canyon just a subdivision up there. Just so you guys know, the distance between the far north side of his property and Matt Canyon is 1300 feet. Looks quite a ways. Yeah. Yeah, that is more than I expected.

All right. Do we have any other direction? Oh, Jake. The roadway on the west is is 60 feet. I can't see that. It's in yellow. My I'm color blind to yellow. I think for about 108 108 ft. Okay. All right. So the and the roadway between lot 511 and 66 60 66 66 Okay. So standard. All right. Yeah. The yellow didn't show up very well. Change the color.

Yeah. We'll change it to black next time, but we just wanted to see. But if this is something that we feel like we get support from state from city council, we'll we'll proceed with it and then we'll be back with the uh MDA and the the concept. Um I I mean I know you've been frustrated at times. It's been a long process, but I think this is a a good give and take for the city to get those roads that we need. And it's 5% off, so I'm I'm a I'm a go on it. Okay. 5% off and we're not taking from the existing residents. Yeah. Um and we're not increasing the density in any way. Nope.

Just percent. And there's been there's been times where we've had um concept plans come in and even final PL plans where they've adjusted here and there with square footage wise and just doesn't work out. And I mean this is a little bit more than what we've seen in the past. This is How many lots are there in black? Probably 50 plus. I counted them. Um 53. Yeah. And there's 75 that are half and and a lot of them are over at half acre. They're 53 or so. So it's a nice mix. Thank you for your efforts.

All right. Any other direction for him tonight? No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Moving on to item number 11. A discussion and council direction of the town homes on Willow sidewalks.

Before we turn the time over to Barry, um I just wanted to who's got going to do the bulk of that? I just wanted to say that uh Sean has been very patient working with us. um trying to I mean this is his project that's being held up and we've tried to get answers for him and and work with him. Um we've met with him out on site several times and he's been very gracious about uh working with staff and with property owners trying to get to a good resolution on this. Um and uh just wanted to say publicly thank you to Sean for uh being willing to work with us on these things and being patient as we try to figure these things out. So, uh, just wanted to make that comment and then let Barry take it over.

Do you want to say anything?

Go for it. I'll say it afterwards. Anything you miss? I doubt you will. Well, um I think the whole well my goal is is to demonstrate to the council the conditions of Willow Street from Dery to Maine and incorporate with that the plans of we just had this, you know, this transportation plan yesterday and Willow Street is is a already considered a collector road and it's continued to be a collector road. Um, and so with this development, sorry, I'm just so I can keep track of my own thoughts here. Just going to log in. Um, and so there's been a lot of discussion about what the rightway is and what it should be in the future and and is it all going to work together? Um there's a memo in here about originally we we had questions about can this sidewalk in particular be in a different location because there are se you know three residents south of this project that their front yards are being impacted. You know they've put in their grass and some landscaping rocks and we just wanted to confirm that where the sidewalk is planned to be is in the correct location and we have verified that. Um there's also discussion about do we need the park strip and what kind of curb and gutter and and a bunch of things. And so um one thing that I just want to point out is the town homes on Willow is a planned unit development and there are certain conditions that were placed on the development as part of the approval and one of those conditions is is specifically written that the sidewalk should be at the west boundary of the rideway and some other things. So when it was asked of me if we could make

a change, you know, I discovered these things and and frankly I said I I can't bypass what what the conditions of the city council were were put on the project and and do something different without unless it was dee deemed you know some minor change. And so that's one question I guess. But um so there's there's that there's benefits of having the sidewalk be where it is separated from from the curb and gutter. Um there's a multiple number of reasons why and I don't know if it's detailed in this memo. I don't know if you've read through it, if you have any questions about that, but um so there are benefits. There are, you know, safety reasons to consider that with where the lane configuration is antic anticipated to be in the future and the sidewalks and the proximity of the school plus all these town homes comes into play in this situation where we really need to think about pedestrians in this area versus vehicles. And and so there is a benefit of separation. There's a benefit of a highback curb for, you know, just alerting an errant driver before they might get into a sidewalk. Um there's a lot of things that are being considered here, I guess. But but mainly I I wanted to point out that I felt like I couldn't make a decision about where the sidewalk or curbon gutter could go because it was specifically outlined in a in a resolution. So that's in here. Um the next thing that was kind of just to to explore ideas was well can we make it a a different kind of curb and gutter and leave the sidewalk where it needs to be so that you know maybe um there's some grading, some elevation challenges with the just sloping the road how it should be done and then where people's

driveways are at. So, I looked at that and and there is a minimal um elevation gain to doing a a modified curb and gutter, but you give up a bunch of capacity and conveyance of of storm water. Um that's if you want to go down, keep going, and we can go back to some of these things. So, I highlighted there where this was a memo that talked about, you know, put the sidewalk curb and gutter aligned on the west rightway line. So, I didn't feel like I could bypass that language. Um, keep going down and and this was just more of the resolution that was made when this was approved. Talks about the sidewalk. Um, if you keep going down, this is just hydraulic analysis of a different kind of a curb. Um, so that was the modified type. And if you keep going down, um, that's the traditional standard city standard curb and gutter. Um, so I did some hydraulic analysis here. If you if you keep going down, I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but this is the modified number. Um, it can flow 5.6 CFS at its fullest, you know, at when the water level is at the top of the curb versus if you keep going down. So 5.6 six versus keep going till the next page. Keep going. Uh 10.75 right there. So, it's a trade-off. If you go to this modified curb, you're you're giving up some capacity to say convey minor and and significant storm events that that may run in the street in the future. So those were these are just engineering background information um and and questions that came up. What can we do? Can we do something different? You know, because we are kind of uh unfortunately when the subdivision

that these three lots that are south of this development were put in, you know, they they didn't do the curb gutter and and stuff at that time. And so then people build their driveways to what the street is. And so they kind of sit low where if you put in a curbon gutter, they would have been a little higher. So, and then it just, you know, that's just kind of the natural thing. And so there just are some grade challenges at the back of the sidewalk that that need to be I mean they're part of the consideration and part of the questions. Um and then just what just more explanation of what's next in in these documents is just a futuristic look of of what Willow Street would be if we you know consider it to be a collector street which is a minor collector here with three lanes um one in each direction with this center turn lane that you know then intersections could be configured differently but um so here at this in the top. You can see, maybe it isn't clear to you, but it's a currently a 60 ft ride ofway. When the town homes on Willow Development came in, the standard road section calls for a 66 ft ride of way. So that's 33 ft on their half of the road, right? So there's a 3-ft difference between the existing 30ft half width and the 33 foot half width, which is our current standard. So here in the green you can see where the sidewalk is is planned to jog and and the park strip widened by 3 ft. Um that's the current plan and that's what's been approved. These are approved construction drawings. Um and yeah, if you go kind of at the bottom there would need to be a transition back to the 60oot rideway or the 30 foot half width. Um and where that development particularly did that

is in the park strip. You went from 6 1/2 ft to 3 1/2 ft. And um so this plan, this concept here um shows the road, futuristic road within the 60 ft ride ofway. And again, it's a lane in each direction with a potential center turn lane. Um there's only a two-ft shoulder before you get to the curb and gutter and then only a three and a half foot park strip with a five foot sidewalk. Um but it but it's doable in plan view. There's also you know things to consider grades and and stuff like that. So, um, but the intent of these drawings is just to show what it what it could be long term if we if we just build out what's planned and and push it all the way through from this development north to Main Street just to demonstrate that that's what it would would look like and that that's the potential and that's what it's planned to be. um according to our transportation master plan just a lane in each direction with a potential you know left turn lane so that you know you don't get the queueing and the backup for the through lanes. So, um there there's a lot of um questions that have been asked about this and these are just some things that I that have been brought up and my analysis of the situation and what the benefits and trade-offs may be. I don't know if I need to say any more but um other than you can see if you go to the this bottom sheet and then maybe the next sheet I am showing a 25 ft which is the the zoning regulation here uh 25 ft front yard setback and you can see that most of the the houses are placed right at that line and so if we were to go in here and widen out Willow Street to get something

wider you know, we're really kind of shrinking up people's front yards quite a bit. And then, you know, we're maybe in that situation where we're eminent domaining these properties. Back to the unpopular thing. Back to the unpopular thing. So, is too narrow. Like, if somebody's parked on the side of the road and two vehicles are passing, it's already almost an issue. Yeah. So, and part of that is because of the pavement width isn't right exactly what what it would be in this scenario. the pavement widths only ft but you also have people street

maybe even less you know in in places. So, um I think the outcome to this is or or I I think where the town homes on Willow development wants solid direction is is he putting in the curb gutter where it needs to go? What kind of curb gutter is it? Is the sidewalk going per the plan? Because you there's been some questions is, you know, can we do something different? What are the options? And so, you know, he's getting to the point where once school gets out, this road is going to be completed and and done. And we're trying to wait till then just to avoid all the traffic of the elementary school on this road. And so, um,

then the other one was his set pack whether it's goes six feet for the 32.

Yeah. So if if the I mean you can see here that if the majority of the road is 60 ft you know for his development the standard at the time was a 33 ft half width so it the park strip got wider. So if the rest of the street isn't going to be that way do we want his portion of the street to have that wider park strip? So that's the other question. And you know there there are benefits to that perceived and real of of separation of you know pedestrians but that goes away once you get south of the of this project anyways before you get to Dery. And so um it it doesn't offer any more parking. It doesn't you know do anything for the drainage. It's just more park space or park strip space where, you know, plantings and signage and things like that are placed, snow, other considerations. Um, but yeah, that's that's another question.

What was the curbing gutter approved? The Was it a cat the 6inch highback or was it it was a cat? Okay. So, was wasn't push? No, just the standard patch. This one. Correct. That one.

And you know, some of the the residents there have expressed that they don't even want a park strip and what are they going to do? What can they do with the park strip? They're going to be maintaining it. Um some of those things. And so those are real, you know, in any case for any resident on the street, that's a consideration of 3 and 1/2 ft. What do you do with that? I mean, maybe you can put some plantings in it that, you know, some shrubs that you can drip irrigate and they can survive. Does it need to be, you know, stamped concrete that nothing grows in? You haven't done that in the city anywhere. I don't know that know of anyways but those are other questions that that have come up and with that in mind because I said that the development has a an approved construction set so technically for their interests they could go and build what's been approved but he's been good enough to consider the residents and just what's good for the city and is it cohesive and and those things so kudos to to Sean for bringing up this and being able to hear the the voice of a residents and and just bringing up these concerns to make sure that they're not, you know, he could just go go get in there and plow through it and be done and whatever. So,

so I guess we're looking for direction on the width in front of his property, whether we keep it at six feet or 3 feet, whether we change the highback curb to a roll back curb or keep it as is, and whether we adjust the sidewalk at all or keep that as is. Is that property designed to cap capture any water on it? Yes. Which property are you? uh the new developed property. Yeah. So, it's it's picking up. So, is it dumping into a drain? Is is there an inlet somewhere along Willow that's taking water on or is that just pushing water down the roadway? The way it was designed and approved is there's no inlets or or piping

anywhere in Willow Street and it just runs into that development. All those highback curves are going to push water down Willow. Yes. Okay. I mean from Dury to this development for sure. Beyond that I don't there's nothing there's nothing. Yes that's that's that's what I'm concerned about. Yeah there are I believe on the three homes that are facing this there is a what do you have Jody Larry? What what is there? There's big sums on my place at Doug Eeks in the ground there that when the father-in-law built that the city made it put in two grade. So they're like the ground swell. No, they're

20 ft below grade,

but there it is a swell system and and you know when a development I don't I haven't looked at the background on that but typically when those are put in they're sized for their development only really. I don't know what was done there. I can't say for certain that it wasn't different, but that's the typical standard is you take care of your own water. And Jake, to to speak more about the highback curb going down Willow, when it gets to the northern road here of this development, it is running into the development and it's not, you know, blowing past or whatever. It goes into the development and it's captured there. Okay. Because there is water retention Sean in your

Yeah, I saw them. I saw inside all the storm drain going in inside. I was just wondering if there was anything outside and no just sheet flow into the development basically. So they're taking on Willow Street water and holding it.

That area is so unique because the residents on the east side, all of those homes are below the roadway, which is al which is a major no. Um uh you know, but obviously those are some of the oldest homes in in Grantsville. Um but that's usually a major no. You don't want anything below the you want everything above the roadway. So you don't have water, you know, if we have a major rain event. And so I I we had that sidewalk that was built on that side of the roadway. And I think there was an effort there from the city to raise that substantially to try to create a curb on that side of the road. So, so to speak. Um,

I guess I would ask I mean is there a cost difference between the two? And that's maybe more of a question for Sean. Can I give you a couple my thoughts considerations? So, this is why I'm saying pause. If you look at what we have here, so this is what I have to do. Let me flare this road out. And it's going to go right here. So this road's going to stay here. So if you drop down one more if it helps. I can plug in and just drive on a CAD map.

So th this right here needs to be considered. Are you really going to design this road so that those front yards are 15 ft? And this needs to be the time of consideration. I understand the road's narrow, but all you're creating with the 66 foot rideway that we have all through town is, hey, we'd like you to park on the side of the roads and we'll still drive down the narrow. And that's what needs to be planned out. And that's what we need to plan out better whole city non-stop. We just keep looking at little sections and doing that and that's it. Instead of like go going, hey, let's look at the whole zone here. What's the best for the citizens that have been here forever? And that's that's what I ask here, right? Because I could just put it in, but I I'm just tired of not planning it out, not doing it right, not looking out for what should be. So that's my two cents. Costwise, it's going to be the same. You're going to you're going to shuffle it. I've already curved cro cost by not doing it while we were there. Once again, I just want it to be right. And so narrowing that road, dragging my roads out further, planning for the future, that could be 20 years from now based off your budget, but it should still be planned now.

Okay. Can I point something out that just from the aerial Let me point up on this.

Just because rooftops show up in Oh, you can see this home right there on the north side of you can kind of see how the wall is is tipped like this. You can see the windows and stuff. So, the roof is kind of in the image is slanted this way. It doesn't happen everywhere because they're stitching images together, but it does right here in this area. But for the most part, most of these homes are set back at that 25 ft from the rightway boundary. I mean, I I walked this road with Sean um went and looked at everything and measured. I mean, if you do the full width that we're making Shawn do on that south end all the way through, neighbors are literally walking out of their house and there's the curb and gutter and then the road on some of these these properties. So, it doesn't make sense to me to have it narrow on one end and then flare out to this giant road on the on the south end. And and then it the elevation with the the sidewalks and what the three houses on that side are going to have to deal with. I think the narrower road so they can blend it in better um would be the better route to go on this blend into their sidewalk. So because it's a it's quite the elevation change jump on that and getting in and out of those driveways are going to be fun. So with that, the the plan that's been we had the developments engineer kind of look at the grades on those driveways and and just give a a better plan to transition. So, if the sidewalk stays where it is per the plan at the elevation, they would have to cut back on some driveways, you know, remove some of their concrete and make a transition back to the back of the sidewalk so that it's not kink like that. You know what I

mean? But it does be it goes down and then especially rats and then the eekens. I remake that. Are you sure that it goes back down? Yeah. And they put me at rest. It was like 1 point something and then about in the middle of about 610. Yeah, if you're walking on that sidewalk and miss it, fall into R's yard, that's going to break a leg.

I'm accusing myself of discussing this so because it affects me. So, you guys hash it out and I have faith that you'll make the right decision. I honestly I feel like I'm not super familiar with it. I feel like maybe I need to go look at it. I drive a little a lot, but I don't pay attention. But I I feel like what we're saying is we don't want to take poo driveways by doing police. Well, the question is is do we address a width issue now or do we address it later really? Right. And how we address it. And we're trying to basically uniform the road because we've got a small portion here trying to mix it with a portion that's already there. So we're trying to figure out how to do that. So the way it was approved is was at 66, right? So the question is are we

for the for the town homes development south is the 33 foot half width but then they also have this portion that goes from their development south to Dery Street that narrows down to the 30 foot half width and that's how it's in the resolution and on the plan and so then on the town homes you want 36 to 30 we're going yes question is

so do you want to move the park strip to from 6T to 3 ft. Three and a half ft to make it consistent across the road width on that portion. I think we shorten it the parks. Yeah. I I mean the old way to be honest like I don't know. We do have some residents in here. I kind of defer to the park strip question. Probably would be more of what seems like shortening would solve would be better.

Well, the only place that it would shorten would be in the town homes frontage. It's already shortened in everywhere else. In front. Yeah. It would already be the three and a half ft everywhere else. So the question of shortening the park strip doesn't affect any existing residents. It's the town home development frontage. How's it going to align with what? Yeah. You know,

and then to be clear and that whether we want to change the curve to the roll back curve, which again that increases the city's risk and that's why we're here to council because any risk that we increase council has to make that decision. And again they have the sumps, the different things to collect the water in those areas. Do we want to do the roll back curb for those in front of their houses because that way they can get in and out a lot easier for them as opposed to the highback curb. Do we need the park strip though at all? Like what's the what's the park your your mailboxes and your meters?

You're going to you can imagine you got to get up from from pavement grade to sidewalk grade. And are you just going to drive over a 6-in curb every time you get in? So, you need the park strip distance to ramp up to get to the sidewalk elevation. In any case, so we looked at that as well. Can we just put it the sidewalk over against the curbon gutter, but then you got to bounce it back so you have that ramping distance through the park strip to get up to sidewalk level and and where you can keep your water in your roadway because otherwise water comes down Willow Street and it goes into private property. Now, that's the liability that we're talking about. Um, so we need the sidewalk to stay high or the curb to stay high to keep the water from the street in the street. So, the park strip offers that ramping, makes it traversible to get in the driveway. If you do a mountable curb, a a modified, you're still going to have this 4in bump instead of a 6-in bump. I would argue that the ramp is a better driveway than the mountable curve. And

I mean, people can go and drive this. Maybe I'm I'm taking looking at it wrong. So, do we need the 60 foot? Do we need that road to be 60 foot when the north end's 45 in some places, 53 in some? Like why can't we just be consistent the whole way and make and then reclassify this not as a as a arterial road because so sorry I don't mean to cut you off but I just wanted to it is 60 feet everywhere. It's not at the north end. It's like 45. No, it's 60. I mean, I can plug in my my computer and we can look at at maps. And I mean, if you're talking about two different things, you're talking right away. Yeah.

And you're talking what's physical there. You guys need to look at what's physically there. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Physical road. It should be talking about right away. Yeah. I'm saying the physical road should be consistent from north to south. Yeah. I mean, if we did change the rideway and the physical road, then obviously we would adjust the road width at that mouth when we redid that portion of the road. Yeah. and widen it to our current ride of weight. But so right now, you're right, it is very narrow right there. But if we did redo the road there with in our right talk about on the north end or Yes. on the north.

I know. But I'm saying it's that's never going to happen. And if it does, it's going to be a long ways away. I just think that road just 45 feet or whatever it is now just consistent the whole way. You're going to widen it. And you're we're talking about the kids from the the twin the the town homes or whatever. All that is is asking for higher speeds, faster cars. Please feel free to try. So if you do, then you have to go take these people on the north ends, their front yards. And like I said, you literally walk out and you're on the sidewalk. I think that's misleading because that's not true. We wouldn't widen the ride ofway anywhere. We would build to the rightway.

We would build to the rightway and their front yards would be a right to build to. That's why it's called a rideway. I the the the question in my mind is I mean there are probably some areas on that northern portion where people have things out past that are in the right way. I would I would assume and that's why it probably

feels tighter than it actually is. So, I I've done some some survey research. You can see my CAD on the screen, but I've pulled in surveys from, you know, other other things that show here's the rideway. Um, this development itself. I don't know why it's glitching, but anyway, it and then this Legacy Lane project that's here, it's 60 ft from Willow, I mean from Dery to Maine. That's the existing rideway width, 60 feet. The only place where it would be different would be at the town home's frontage where it would widen by three feet. We would get 63 feet. And the road lanes wouldn't change at all. The park strip is the only thing that would be different in that area. Otherwise, it's the same from Dery to Maine. And it's 60 ft wide right away existing. We wouldn't be taking anybody's property. We wouldn't be doing anything. And we would just be building within our existing rightway.

I get that. But I'm talking about the the existing road. We're going to go from 45 ft that it currently is on the north end and we're going to widen it out to 60 or 66, whatever we decide. Where did you get 45 ft? That's what the asphalt is right now. I'm not saying the rightway. That's what's currently asphalt on 45 feet more than what our standard is. curb to curb the main streets where up here because the willow apartments they jog in make it a little smaller.

It's hard to see where it is and I don't have a survey on it but but I think that's maybe a misleading um dimension. I get that maybe there's some curbs here and I don't know what they are to be honest. Our curb to curb, what our standard would be and what we would build here is 38 ft of asphalt plus curb and gutter all the way through. And that wouldn't change whether it gets to the town homes or not. It would be 38 ft the whole way. The only thing that would be different is the park strip. We would just fit this three-lane collector road which is on our transportation master plan. And it may not be 20 years. I think I don't know when it was, but it it's on that list of improvement projects. I don't remember where it was, what years, but anyway, it's in there.

Yeah, but Willow's a there's a lot of traffic that goes up Willow. So, I mean, it it's got South Willow above it, you know, and they get there from other areas like some come down Dery and Yep. No, but so we can call it what we want, but it's really what are people using it for unless we Right.

I don't know what we would do to have people, you know, put in a a median barrier and dirty or something so it wouldn't be a collector road. It wouldn't get used except for local residents. I mean, those are things that can be done, but that's not what our planning suggests or recommends. And I mean, not not that we can't change, right? that this this drawing and what was presented as far as the drawing goes is just to demonstrate what the futuristic whether it's 20 years away or 10 or 15 or whatever it is. This is what could fit in the current rideway and it would match the transportation master plan that we have that you guys saw yesterday with a lane in each direction and a center turn lane. But you're right, Derek. You could give up that right away and keep the road and narrow it down to what it looks right now. But that would be a council choice that they do that to that road.

That's what I'm saying. That's narrow down the road. That's my that be my recommendation. I think staff's recommendation is to keep the the right way as is. If as long as you're pardon, sorry, go ahead. No, as long as you're aware that if you narrow it now, you can't fit a lane in each direction with the center turn lane. You're only going to have a lane in each direction. Then we're going to have to find another alternative collector. Yeah. And I think that's throughout the wheel. Find find a different north south. That's another cost to add to where what that would be. And then the build cost of doing that.

I see. I Yeah, I don't I don't agree with that. I think it needs to have an opportunity for eternally. So, and we already have that issue on Dery. So, you know, Dery should follow the same. I mean, the you have somebody that's trying to make a left turn there. Everybody's in line that's wanting to turn right but can't turn right. So, and vice versa. So, at this intersection under Yes. Okay. So, you would have it turning on to Main Street. I'm saying so from Will to Main.

Yeah. So, my my my recommendation would be the same as staffs is to ensure that it stays that way.

Would you want the the three feet extra during the um town homes or would you like that to go be the 60 ft all the way down? understand that if you change it, that may have an implication to the platting and other stuff, you know, unless you keep the ride away and just say built the sidewalk straight through because the plat's prepared. It's not recorded. Doesn't need to come back for approvals if you change the plat. Um those are implications to the development that you know just timing if you're going to consider his timing and and you know in good faith keep him

whole and maybe the rideway stays where it is but the sidewalk goes straight through. I don't know. I just wanted to clarify um because I I'm sitting in the back trying to follow along and maybe I misunderstood. Was was there a recommendation that we take existing city rightway and deed it to adjacent property owners in the name of narrowing a street down? Was that what the suggestion was? Because that's what I'm trying to wrap my mind around. We're trying to get right away everywhere else in town and on this road maybe the suggestion was let's narrow it down. Was that

Yeah. Keep keep a little straight. I'm not saying take the rideway away. Keep the rideway where it's at, but keep the road narrow from north to south. Oh, okay. I just didn't understand. I I think you need to No, that was not my suggestion. That was mine. So, one one more detail that would be beneficial is if we understood what the front the leftover front yard would be. So, based off your 66 foot rideway, how much front yard would those people have left? So I don't think the intention is take any of their front yards. But it will. You would though. Why? 20 years. We're going to widen this road and we going to

But we wouldn't take any of their property. You'd have to No, you wouldn't technically. You got to remember Barry's talking in a box that he has to. Right. You guys are seeing what's happened. So in his box, you're not going to take any of their property because right now they only have 15 foot front yards. This is this is 25 ft from this pink line to the back of the proposed future. You're going to reduce their front yards. No, what they've been using as their front yards.

I don't think in a lot of places that's very true. I mean, certainly in some cases, but you look at like this line right here that's blue is the rideway line and which would be the future back of walk. This house right here, yeah, they have a driveway. The grass comes out to here. Um, these people's driveway comes roughly to the to the rideway boundary. Um, this one goes out to to meet the pavement, but their fence is a little bit extended. This fence is a little extra. That house most likely only has a two foot overhang. Which house? The one that you were just This one? No, down. Down here. No, back up. Oh, pardon. Barely. It's right there. that hip proof one right here.

Yeah. So, yeah, and that's why I wanted to point out that you can see right here at this location is the grass where the grass meets the house. So, there's this much distance that's misleading from the roof that's similar to this distance oblique angle of the image. The oblique angle of the image. So, this line right or this image out here on this roof isn't the same vertically to where the footing is. You got to measure the driveway. Well, if we have a little more time and you guys don't make a decision tonight, staff could go shoot this and give you that exact measure.

Hey, seeing it from here is great. I've walked out there and physically stood in the yard and we marked where that where it would be where the back of curb and gutter would be. You're Yes, it's not their yard, it's the rideway. But literally, they would walk into their front yard, then the ride rightway would be there, and they'd be walking right on out to the smell. Would it benefit if I staked out where the rideway boundary is at the fence lines on several places along here? I think that would be great cuz I think you'll see that we're not taking people's front yards. Well, and and and the thing and the and the and the issue the issue is is it's a rideway like when I say we don't design roadways based on on

encroachments encroachment. So, um, you know, I understand it and I understand the need to marry them together and to marry him good. Um, but yeah, I I Yeah, I think we'd like to probably see that. I know Sean's probably needing some decisions to to pour a driveway forward. If we have a decision in two weeks, I'm good. I just want this done right. You know, we talk about not taking people's front yard. How much your front yard have we taken in your perspective? Two feet. Two feet. Two and a half. Almost three feet. They think that's theirs. The rideway is back there. Barry showed them where they signed and gave that away. Originally it was.

Our world of us that understand this is different than everyone else's world. And we've got to start looking at that and we've got to start helping them understand what's about to happen. If if everyone on Willow Street knew what was about to happen, this room would be purple and they would not be pleased. It would look like that's the reason why we did what we did with Matthews Lane where the that Matthews Lane would have been right in front of the Hall's old house and the the trailer up the street from it. We would have been right in their front yard. Yeah. I mean, I but we we jut it in just for that reason. But what's going to happen here?

I get that. But when you have your property lot surveyed and and you build past those things, I I understand the reason why you do. Um, but we have to keep that into consideration, too. That was changed after our lawn was in though, was it? The original property line was where we have our lawn and then when my dad cut his subdivision or culde-sac that went back in there, unbeknownst to us, it got pulled back by about two and a half feet and so that's where it's at. So what would that just if you're okay if I ask your property and what's

what would that affect in the front two feet of your of your property? Can I just you're okay if I ask what likeass grass I've got sprinklers I mean that' all have to be done that'd be a cost to sean an additional cost and if you just pulled that out two feet nobody would be affected and the elevation's going to be close and I can speak for Doug we're both against park strip we don't want park strip we keep talking about the flood control the overflow well give us 27 inches like you got along works on on again right against the you're saying put it just back slightly off the curb. I mean it's already one of the most narrow streets in town.

Yeah. You know, you can't if somebody's parked on the side of the road down on the north end. You can't you have to stop and let somebody come by, right? You know, and all we're doing is choking them back down. We got this big bubble for the town homes and then we choke it back down again by putting a 5ft park strip. I mean we're when we talk about the water flow we're talking 100 foot in rats and 100 foot in Doug by the time it gets to me where we got the two big sump drains which we haven't even looked at or considered. So, I mean, we're talking 200 ft of rain,

you know, that we got in October, didn't even come close to us.

And that's a point. That's a good point. I think in the future, these roads will will eventually connect with curb and gutter and and there's the potential that a lot of wherever Dury Street has a high point that that comes back to here can be channeled and sent down Willow Street. if we don't put in storm drain, which which is, you know, likely that we put in storm drain and so that it wouldn't come around the corner. But, um, in any case, um, beyond the drainage, I mean, we we do want to keep the drainage of the city's property in the city's property as much as possible, right? To to eliminate the potential for for hazard litigation, whatever that may may come up. It's just the practice. And then um yeah, the park strip distance offers some traversible driveway to to get from pavement up to a place where the drainage can be contained within the rightway. So, I don't I don't know if this is any any of this makes sense um because of what what's on the screen, but from what I see, everybody's yard or for the most part, everybody's home is 25 ft away from the current rideway in

right would be the back of curb. Yes. Back of sidewalk. Back of sidewalk. Yeah. I mean, if if you look on here, this fence comes out a little bit, but there might be some skew in the image on the on the fence. Um, a lot of these driveways are are coming out and built very close to I mean, this extends a little bit further. This fence line is is basically right on the line. Um, yeah. A a lot of is it a park required?

Now, Barry, would it be appropriate to say that that sidewalk on the east side, does it line up with the existing sidewalk or you're pushing that sidewalk further east, right? Yeah. So, it's in the correct like ultimately correct space here at this but but then it does let me uh do this. makes this little jog right here away from the fence line or the the rideway boundary and then it more or less follows that same alignment. So, it's not in the ultimate correct or planned position where it would be right at the back of the ride ofway. So, your 66T rightway is affecting everyone on the road.

Correct. I don't know what you mean by that. See that? Yeah. The sidewalk will push. Yes. It would have to get rebuilt. Yeah. Yeah. But do they understand that? See what I'm saying? It's that whole side, you're going to go rip up all their front yards because it's your right away. This side, the same thing. You're affecting everyone on that entire road. And I don't think everyone understands that. Well, we're not doing this tomorrow. And there's certainly some public, you know, we do these kind of projects. There's some public outreach and and information sharing and and those kinds of things. um public involvement that would take place obviously, but

my suggestion to other members, I don't know if anyone has done it. I might have been the only one, but go walk Willow Street and see where those marks markers are. I'm sure Sean like you did me'd be happy to walk your he do it because I was major that existing sidewalk that's wrong and so they're going to move. It looks like they're going to move about three or four feet where you and I were. But once Barry does it, then you'll know exactly what your evidence. Yeah. I think to be able to make a decision, I need to see that and have some conversations regarding with some of the residents there. Okay.

I know we're talking a time that needs time frame that needs to probably move pretty quickly. I think we can accommodate that realistically if I can start in the road after school is out. That's what we agreed to at precon. So obviously there's some paperwork that needs to be done there. As long as all that can be done, we can get into the road come when we get out of school Memorial Day June first. That's totally reasonable. And we can put this on the next council meeting and try to get it addressed if council wants to come look or whatever, like what questions exactly are you wanting so we can prep that, send it to you off in an email to kind of give you an idea of what's going on with this, what answer those questions.

I think the biggest thing is how is this affecting the citizens? How much are we taking of lots? How much are we taking of things that are already there? Now, I know I know what we're saying. We already we own the rideway, but how much are we going to be disrupting them affecting them, right? And and for us, I mean, and the two and a half feet or whatever is not as big a deal as the the elevation. I mean, I just don't know. I just can't physically wrap my head around how we're going to get in the driveway without having to have the same situation as on the east side where those people have to go in there, overcross the sidewalk, and drop back down into their driveway. It's a mess. Yeah. So, that's like I think that's the biggest thing that seeing it in person and walking it is what that shows you.

I don't know if these kind of numbers would make any sense, but this is this is the Ericson's driveway right here on the screen. So, can I just ask while we look at this, does the modified does this fix that? Not really. The difference is 2 in. Okay. Lessens the incline. Just it's still an incline. So this is you can't drop the elevation of the you can't drop the elevation from the road down to the So this is not a solution.

You could use that that curb and gutter, but it what it does is if your road is kind of fixed because you're trying to match into existing and come at a at a draining grade, then you're going to step up either 6 in well actually 4 in or or 2 in. It it's it doesn't change a lot as far as elevation. Um, unless the only benefit that you you could get out of this is if you lowered the sidewalk behind the curb and gutter, but then when you have driveways, then the water from the road will run into their yard and then unless you contain it. So maybe the this modified curbon gutter where there isn't a place where it, you know, dips into a a driveway kind of contains the the drainage, but there's a limit to it. It doesn't offer the same drainage capacity as the highback does. And you're and you're only getting a little bit of elevation, you know, as far as where the sidewalk goes, where the driveways tie in. It's it's 2 in. And this plan has already made a little bit of a modification to the to the position, vertical position of the sidewalk at the driveways. And you can see here, this is the plan elevation with a 9.18 at the end. And then it comes back here to a 9.25 slightly above that. But that's come coming back to match into their existing driveway. So the driveway would be cut for this portion and then it would be sloped from the back of the sidewalk up until this point and it would match in. And similarly to um the EANS who are the neighbor a little bit further south. Oops, not the right sheet. Bear with me. Um, this one is so Ericson's are over here. Then you got this Chester Hollow Road and then the Eekans driveway is this one. Again, elevations at the back of sidewalk 1129 and 1136, 1128 and

1120. So, they are they would have to come back in here and cut out their driveway and repour that to make it all blend in and match. Um, and same thing happens here. And that's with this highback curb and gutter traditional standard stuff. Um, so that's already kind of planned to be done as far as the construction drawings, but that could be changed to a modified curb and then, you know, maybe this driveway gets cut back slightly less. You know, I don't know how much, but And just for the record, like I'm not I'm not uh

So, can I ask you if I was just to pay for the concrete if I have to cut half my driveway out? That would if I don't misunderstand the rules, if you have a private property and and some project comes along, they need to make you whole again. And so, it would be on the developments. What's that distance? Because that's the way I understand it, too. There's a distance that I have to correct you to. Yeah, it's not half your driveway. It's 10 feet or whatever. Tell me 18 in high. Red's got the big jump. So, he's going to have to be cut way back.

But my driveway is up way higher. So, this is Rhett's His feet. Grass is going to be dramatic. Beacons was the a pretty good one. Yeah, this is the biggest one. Right. Right. Yeah, that one's probably the biggest one. Where's the scale on this thing? And they're they're in their mind. Well, they kind of knew they were past, but I think they're four, six feet, four seat. How far past the line were their yard goes way out there. Maybe four plus feet. And they knew that.

So that was like almost 17 feet. So Sean in your mind so I understand the all the issues and I think visually you can look across the street but like it just never thought that sidewalk was common sense but what's the solution? What's in your in my mind the right thing to do is narrow that. It's it it's not a collector. I understand that's probably what they think. It's not it's Willis Street. It's been Willis Street for how many years? It's narrow. The wider you go, the faster people go. We're trying to slow people down. Let's narrow it down. So what if you have to pause when two cars go past and a car's parked? It slows down. It's 25 miles an hour. But but that's my opinion. Narrow it. Give the right proper curbing gutter. Give them strip. Put the sidewalk. But that gets the sidewalk clear out of them. It affects them the impact is less on both sides of the road. So, one of the things I thought of is I do feel with the school up the road, the kids, it'd be nice for them to walk up a sidewalk to the school.

So, across the road and use the one there.

So, I ask staff if inside the the town homes I could do that modified curb so that I could put the sidewalk next to it so when they park on those driveways that are smaller, there was more room and they said no because of safety and and I agreed with them. We left it with that. So I think what's Barry's saying to have that section of curb the right curve with the right mo strip with the right sidewalk is important. So how do we meet the middle on all this right? We go down n willow straighten that thing out narrow it and call it for what it is. It's not a collector. You're going to be frustrated when it's a 66 foot right away and you got more cars on there trying to jam-pack. It's going to be as busy as you build it. Okay? So you're never going to satisfy it.

Visually, it's impossible to imagine a turn lane there. Even

you just visually and even if we do it now, even if we stick with this, that end of the road is going to stay that wide for the next 20 years in you guys' budget tonight and the money you're spending on different things. Where are you going to come up with money and priorities that widen Willow Street? Without a developer paying for it, you'll never do it. It would look like Cork with that turn lane and that's dangerous right there. So you just have another cork street because there's not a through street. You'd have three-way and you'd have every car in the world trying to go off boiler like they are quirk and it would just be another danger. Those hot spots again like we saw yesterday of the roads that would turn into just a nightmare. People are going to use the roads that you build. So that won't be a collector. They'll go another route. Just so I understand though, you're saying now the rope and but you are saying keep the sidewalk there.

I personally think the right thing to do is keep the sidewalk even though we have one on the other side. It's just you're talking about trails in other subdivisions. The sidewalk's a natural trail. It's a na natural connects everything connectivity. So having the sidewalk on both sides with the proper mo strip for putting snow and safety and all those things, that's the right way to do it. So the only solution that gives us is cut the asphalt down, right? And don't make it as wide as the rest of the roads. Make it as wide as the previous roads we put in Grantsville before we decided we had to have 66 foot rideways. Remember, we've gone through all phases. And that's my frustration. I've been through every phase, every council change, every different one ever. And it's like time that we can pick something and stay with it. So,

where are we here then? I would just just throw out another consideration. Okay, we already all know that Willow Street's pavement is not wide, but does that deter travelers from using it? Unless it's backed up and congested, congested. That's kind of their path of least resistance. People that live on the road, they know my used to live on the road. My parents still live on that road. And people are using it to connect to other streets, right? It's it's that's what the definition of a collector is. So, if we're going to narrow it,

and you're about to put town homes there that people will be wanting to turn into. And if there's no turn 96 97 town homes times 10 trips per day or eight or whatever for a town home that's a lot of cars every day coming in on the street on Cherry Street that connected to Cherry and the other one and so you know eventually you're going to have that connected do wide and cherry street on that end if it's got 60 feet then we can fit three lanes. They'll go through Cherry and use cork like they should. So, well, cherry's a mess, too. It is.

So, I guess my thought is unless you put some sort of physical barrier that keep from South Willow continuing on down Willow Street, it's going to be a collector whether you put it 32 feet of asphalt or 38, it's going to be used the same unless there's a physical barrier that makes people turn and go a different route. I think people are already turning now because I mean I live there and I know because it's a nightmare to get to make a left-hand turn at the end of Will Street on the main street. So I think people from South Will are going down Derpy Street going around to get onto the light or whatever they need to do to get not having to come down will street because I mean there's traffic but not everybody coming from South Will is going all the way down Will Street. Oh that's true.

Wider roads aren't always answer. That's why you don't see seven 10 lane free highways. doesn't help with traffic jams or anything. So, just because it's wider doesn't mean it's going to be any less congested than what it's already at. Yeah. But narrowing it doesn't make any any safer in my opinion. Like I it actually compounds the safety issue in my opinion. So,

I don't know. I've been on that road a lot the last little bit looking at it and meeting with with these guys and Sean and uh traffic it's a lot slower on that street than it is Cork Street where I live. Um, would somebody offered I don't know if it was Sean or Barry to go stake it out so that if you haven't seen it, you could. Is that something we would still like to have done? And which areas would you like that

just all the way along every 500t or 300 feet or what? Tell me. Yeah, I think I think if we were to get some points on the north side, both on the north side and then against the three residents on the south side, we can visually see the rest of it probably. I mean, we could do every 500 if you wanted to or everywhere. I'll just kind of do it something that it looks like it's further out than it should be, then that would that would help visualize it. And I can gladly help Barry. I think Barry needs to do it. But I can carry the stakes and the paint and whatnot to help you do it because the more marks we have, the better off we are. But it needs to come from Barry. Yeah. Yeah.

And as long as you all are happy that I spend time doing that, that's great. I can I'm sure you have plenty of free time. Barry, that was pretty sarcastic comment. So, um I visually yeah I I think I think it's important we make the right decision there and I do think there's probably a balance between them. Um

so so having all the information is going to help. So may I ask so I can stake where our existing rideaway is the boundary of what we own and we could pull tapes over or I can do that plus maybe paint some stuff on the ground that says this is the anticipated future curb and gutter location. What what information beyond staking the boundary of the rideway is useful?

What what would you guys like to see? Let's just paint the same colors. I've got all those colors. Seriously, put the 25 foot set back out there in purple and put a blue line. What you got there? Well, it gets like that's that's fine, but colors mean things in blue staking. And I don't I don't want somebody

about that. I I wanted to say that uh I think Derek was right on in his comment about wide streets and narrow streets and how traffic patterns work. Um, one of the things that's kind of of a best practice thing that's coming up lately is rather than put a yellow stripe or a center turn lane down the middle of the road, you bring in the white lines and remove the yellow stripe down the middle and that has a a natural traffic calming effect because everyone thinks, "Oh, this road's a little more skinny, so I have to slow down a little bit." The pavement width is the same. It's just a a mind trick that makes you think, "Oh, this road is narrow." This road is already narrow. The pavement width is narrow and you have to kind of you you your brain thinks I got to slow down because this road is a little bit dangerous or scary. You don't want to say that it's dangerous, right, Tyson? It's it's not dangerous. It's totally safe. It's perfectly safe in every way, but um no, we all know that it feels different to drive down a skinny little road as opposed to a sevenlane freeway. Um, and and I think that's what could be instructive is if you went out and did some dots at at lane widths and then you can get an idea, not not big long stretches, but just yeah, something that would that would kind of give you an idea what the width would be like

on the on the ground and then you could look at it and go, "Oh, this is way different than I expected." Because I think that's what we're locked into is how it feels on the road right now. It feels like a a a skinny country road. What Barry's trying to say is it's not. It's actually a 60 foot rideway, which is as big as we we require most places in town. Um the pavement is the same. The pavement is going to be the same local road.

Well, we all we do is is make the um park strips just a little bit more skinny on this kind of cross-section. It's it's the same road that you're getting anywhere in town. it it feels different. The trees are different. The fences are are in weird places. And that's why I think it would be instructive to go out and stake it out and then maybe indicate where those travel lanes might be. That would be my suggestion.

Any other feedback we want to give Barry or Sean? Isn't the curb already poured in front? No, it's not. Not yet. It's I'm winging out. It's winged. Yeah, but nothing out in there in the road. Nothing north to south. Obviously, we don't want to waste a ton of Barry's time and we don't want to waste a lot of Sean's time and this has been going on for several months. How could we make this less

time consuming for you to mark this out? Is it easier if the council is just there? Obviously, we can all be there at the same time, but couple at a time as and just demonstrate this so that it can be seen or what is easiest for you, Barry? I think I could go out and and say I mark the boundaries of the rideway at intervals so you can kind of still see from one to the other and then maybe mark a center line, center of the road, center of the rideway because sometimes the pavement is not in the center at the center

and then and then people can go and see that and then if there's questions or you want to discuss it more then I can meet you out there bring the instrument and we can say well here's the this here's where this will be and we can find it on the ground as we go. Well, what about over here? We can find it on the ground with the instrument. Um if if that I don't that's a recommendation. Okay. Everyone okay with that? Yes. Okay. But I I think in the end, you know, we just because it's a planned unit development, we need your guys' decisions to to move forward with something, right? So,

okay, thank you everybody for your patience. Hopefully, we're going to get to the best solution. Um, our next item, uh, item number 12 is a discussion of a utility assistance program and council member Dalton has recommended that we perhaps move this to the next council meeting based on the times. Does anyone have an issue with that? Is anyone's brain still even functioning at this point? I think we're going to be a little more attentive next time. So, we're going to do that if that's I'm just worried about your taxes only. Yeah. We're not getting no Troy's back and we're on it. It's all done.

Um, what do I need to do to move this to the next for a motion to Okay. Can I ask for a motion to move this to our next meeting agenda? I'll make a motion that we move our agenda item number 12 to our next city council meeting. Second. All right. We have a motion and a second and we will move that. All in favor? I. And we will move that to our next meeting. So I just need a motion to adjurnn. Moved. Okay. All in favor. All right. Thank you.