Village Commission - Regular Meeting

Recording in progress

Okay, good evening, everyone. It's 602. It's light attendance here at Village Hall. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. But we do have several commissioners appearing on Zoom, and I see some neighbors are on Zoom as well. So I want to be respectful of everybody's time. We're going to call this Village Commission workshop to order. Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Commissioner Acosta?

Here.

Commissioner Cervone? He's he's Commissioner Cervone is on.

Present.

Commissioner Navarro is not present. Vice Mayor Cook is not present. Mayor Streiffel? I'm here.

Okay. Let's do the Pledge of Allegiance. Okay, I'll make some opening remarks. Thank you again, neighbors participating on Zoom, neighbors participating here at Village Hall. We want to have a conversation about North Bay Village's trash pickup service. The conversation was inspired by two programs primary catalysts. The first being the village owns its sanitation trucks, its garbage trucks. They had been breaking down and in need of repair. At a certain point, we got to a place where we needed a critical part and we had to order it and it was very expensive and it was taking a very long time and we were leasing trucks in the interim. And so the issues with maintaining the trucks became more problematic than I think they otherwise would have been. The second primary catalyst for this conversation is where we housed our sanitation efforts. Our trucks, our supplies, our public works facility was located on Galleon Street in a building that was essentially condemned. So when we went ahead and demolished that building and we demolished that site, we were making way for a community center, which is a great asset that we're all looking forward to celebrating a grand opening this summer. And we also engaged in a very expensive environmental cleanup because the history of that site on Galleon Street, I don't know the details of it, but it caused a great deal of pollution to the soil and the fill that were on that site. And then, of course, through groundwater, all of that pollution was seeping into Biscayne Bay. So we've done an incredible job cleaning up, but we've now lost our site. here in North Bay Village, where we are parking and storing our sanitation trucks. We have purchased a new facility outside of the village. So we do now have additional storage capacity over in Little River. But the conversation about whether or not North Bay Village should continue operating its own proprietary sanitation services has come up. And I have asked our staff, to prepare all kinds of information about what the current costs are to the village in terms of running and operating the full scope of our sanitation services. I've asked them to make projections for the next five years as to what the costs are expected to be. We've had some meetings. Staff, I understand, has had several meetings with other providers, specifically with waste management. I know that our attorneys have explored potential waste management contracts that they could possibly piggyback of. But all of this is going to sort of come out. We want to have this conversation, hear from you about what you care about, what you like, what is absolutely fundamental, indispensable, non-negotiable, and what you might be open to. So, I don't know if Commissioner Acosta or Commissioner Trevony have any other comments to make. I'm going to wrap up in just a minute and give them an opportunity. But this is the first time we're having a real public conversation about this, aside from some conversations in the Sustainability and Resilience Task Force that we're more sort of about recycling and waste diversion and fact-finding than anything else. But this is the first official commission public meeting about it, and we will have others based on how much feedback we get. And for tonight, the agenda is going to be, you know, remarks from the commission that I'm going to hand it over to the village manager and our public works director, Steve, and then we will take comments from you all. And Yeah, just bear with us. So Commissioner Trevony, Commissioner Acosta, do either of you have any remarks that you'd like to make? No? Okay. All right. I'm going to hand it over to the village manager, Frank. Go ahead.

Good evening, Mayor and community that has come out, and we appreciate you coming. Um, so as the mayor stated, we have been tasked with, uh, taking an evaluation of the services that we provide in the village, the, uh, trash and the garbage. And, uh, so we have tasked our, uh, public works director who has put together a lot of information here to make a presentation at this meeting. And, uh, We'll see where it goes. No, that's a good idea. No, I think that's a great idea. That's a great idea. So when we're talking about these different charts and amounts, you'll have the same thing that we have here. So Steve, take it away.

Okay. Well, thank you, Mayor. Thank you, City Manager. My name is Stephen Buckland. I'm a Public Works Director here at North Bay Village. And as they have so eloquently stated, I've been tasked with doing an evaluation of our sanitation services and determining whether if it's warranted to go to a private hauler for those services. Allocate those manpower to other areas in the village. As we're growing, we're going to have a new city hall. We're going to have a new community center. And that's going to require some manpower to maintain that property.

So those in the village will be repositioned. So we're going to send businesses by

Recycling for commercial and multifamily, and we've got the county dorm recycling for the residential homes. So that may be a possibility to go as well. So I'm gonna discuss a little bit of how this analysis was developed. One of the first things I did is I got with our customer service department and did an audit of the accounts that we have both commercial, multifamily, and residential. Surveyed each physical site to verify the containers that were on each site. And got with staff to go over how those were being serviced, whether it be one day a week, three days a week, five days a week. And then I compared that to the audit that I did on a billing system. I also did an audit of our advertised rates and how that coincide with our code of ordinances and how we advertise that on our website. And then finally, one of the things I did is actually consulted with a couple of private haulers, waste management and waste connections. So that's kind of a little summary of how we got to where we're at today. And I want to start maybe going over a few of these documents. Now, the first document that you have that's titled Commercial and Multifamily Account Service Levels. That is the information that I gathered from between customer service and our field guys. So we determine, you know, each facility, the account number, how many days a week they're serviced, what size containers they're serviced, and have the frequency of that service. So that becomes very critical in doing the billing. I'm not going to go into this very much in detail. It's just a summary of the accounts. The one thing that I did find is that when reconciling with what our guys are doing in the field compared to what we're billing our customers, we do need to make some adjustments. In the far right-hand corner, you'll see, or far right-hand column, you will see where those accounts have been flagged as being need to be addressed.

Steve, can you give a little more detail of what you found and why these adjustments have to be made?

Sure. So the biggest thing that we found is that the accounts are being serviced in different frequencies than what they're being billed for. Now, at this point, I have not addressed that with those accounts, but we plan on doing so. I was waiting until we got through with this workshop to start going into that. But let's say the very first one, it shows that these numbers that you see here for service days and containers, those are accurate. As of today, it shows being serviced six days a week with three two-yard containers and one one-yard container. However, if you look in the following column, it says the billing corrections are needed. That means that they may only be billed for like four days a week, or they may only be billed for two containers. So all that stuff has to be reconciled with these accounts and make those adjustments in the billing. And it varies from one to another. So some are being billed maybe a little bit more than they're supposed to be. Some are being billed less than they're supposed to be. Okay. Okay. So the next document that you have is the current billing page. Okay, so that should be the small letter size document. Mayor? Okay, so what I did is I took our billing rates that we have in place according to the service that they're currently getting and calculated what our annuals are gonna be compared to our budget.

And Steve, I just realized the people who are in the room have the benefit of physical paper. Is there a PowerPoint version of this that we can have on the screen while you're walking through this material?

I did not provide that.

You didn't do it? Okay. We will make these documents available online and the villages portal along with the video following this meeting. And if you have a comment on zoom or a question. About, you know, that you want to follow up on Steve's presentation, just raise your hand and I'll stop periodically and the village clerk is going to make eye contact with me when there are hands raised.

Okay.

Thanks. Sorry to interrupt you, Steve.

No worries. No worries. Thank you, Mayor. So on this form, you'll see where I broke it out because we have different rates for different schedules. So in the commercial, we've got seven-day, we've got six-day, and we've got three-day in various containers. So those are all going to have different rates. You could have a four-yard container at one site that gets serviced three times a week, and they're going to get a different charge than the container that gets served one time a week. Okay, so that ends up being $27,000 a month that we're charging commercial. Single-family homes, simple rate, it's 394 homes at $45.84 a month. That comes out to $18,060.96 a month. Multifamily homes are similarly charged. They're charged a single rate per unit. However, that unit price drops to $29.63 per unit, monthly billing rate of $118,934.82. It comes out to a gross billing of $164,974.41 per month, or $1,979,692.93 a month. Okay, so the next document that you'll see is the billing breakdown based on the Coral Bay Gables contract. This is a contract that I dealt with waste management representative that we have a possibility of piggybacking. And it's broken down a little bit differently than our city's rates are done. So we've got commercial and multifamily are billed the same. They're not billed per unit for multifamily. It's per yard and based on the frequency of service. So the first bundle you'll see is the one day.

Not much light over here.

Next one was the three-day week. Then you've got four, five, six, and seven. If you go to the last page, I totaled all those up. And then I added in the single family home rate. So the total billing amount... If we were to to piggyback off the course Gables contract drops to 1.71 million $722,282.36 a year. That is less than what we are charging our current residents now. And again, that's based on current service levels. Okay, so the final document you got is the sanitation services cost saving feasibility analysis that I did. So what I did here is I took everything that the city has to pay for to provide these services. Okay, so it's manpower is in the first column or the first bundle there. And then the next is the sanitation trucks, the maintenance and the fees. Second portion is risk, and that's for the insurance for the garbage trucks. And so the annual operational cost of the city to operate this program is $1,430,061. Again, the Coral Gables contract is an all-in contract. So there's no additional tipping fees. There's no additional fees that come in. And that would cost us $1,343,380.24. That would be $1,343,380.24. So if the table goes to the right, I've went through year five. with a slight increase for CPI of 4%. However, on the sanitation trucks and maintenance fees, I increased that by 10% because of the way inflation has been growing, especially on equipment and materials and tariffs that we're having to pay for a lot of these parts and things that come from China or other places. So in the very last column, you'll see the total for all the years. So after five years, the city will have saved $1,068,038.55 if we were to piggyback the Coral Gables contract. Down below, you'll see just, again, the summary of what a residence would save. The annual customer billing currently is $1.9 million. The annual customer billing, if contracted out, will be $1.7 million. And that gives us an annual savings to our residents of $257,410.56. Of course, that's spread across everybody, so not one resident's going to get all that. But that's pretty much how I analyze this task that Public Works does for the village.

So this is we're going to be able to take in the near future. And I need to look at recycling as well. That I've been looking at for recycling. should be it isn't it if they wanted to go on the multifamily we would still recommendation that we're possibly going out and if to the Staff has set for. Residents before. First. Good afternoon. 2610 divided by our city for the quality pick up and it's a it's a real level of service that means curb pickup dictate to the vendor if we end up going back it's two days and About the yard pickup and the bulk pickup.

That's something that we can look at. That's not a piggybackable item right now, at least not with the core labels contract. So we've got our own bulk truck, and we would keep that in operation at least for now.

Okay, because I think that's going to be a – it's just a service I think we all got used to in our single-family homes, and we would like to make sure that that doesn't go away. I think that's going to be an important thing for all of my neighbors.

I know we're going to – And just to clarify, when you say curbside service, you're talking about the bulk pickup. The bulk pickup, yeah. Okay, yes. Yeah, that service will not go away. There are no services will go away. No services will be reduced.

So once a week there'll be, you know, we can bring whatever some people put furniture out or whatever on the, on the curb. Okay. And that, and that would be done in the, if we contracted it out, would that still be done by the new contractor or that'd be something you're saying you'd have to figure out how to do it with your, our own. Right now the plan is to keep the bulk service in-house. In-house. Okay. Okay. Okay, that's the main, I think, concern, I think, for most of my neighbors in North Bay Island in terms of changes of service. Obviously, we're very much in favor of anything we can do to make things more efficient and save money. Question, just so I can understand some of the numbers here, that on the sanitation service cost savings feasibility analysis study, I just was trying to understand the difference between... The annual operational cost, if the city operated for year one, for example, is $1.43 million approximately. And then there's an annual customer billing rate per current rates of 1.979. So we bill, according to this, about $400,000 or $500,000 annually.

more than the costs are is that i just what the difference what that difference is in that well that goes um for into uh future investment and into the uh into the sanitation so eventually we have to buy new trucks um yes and those are capitalized later because we don't buy new trucks annually that that happens over time

Okay, so the garbage truck lease is different than buying other kind of trucks for the city? Correct. Gotcha. Okay, so the garbage trucks, we have two, I guess, that we lease? Yes. And then there's... The annual capitalized costs, that's the difference between those two. So then your analysis is, okay, so then I think I understand. If contracted, that line item is 1343, and then the 1722, that difference is kind of you're matching up with that difference, the same kind of capitalized costs and other expenses that have nothing to do with the contract with the third party. And as you mentioned at the beginning, this new facility that we have over in Little River, could you elaborate a little bit about your concerns about the... Any concerns you have about storing trucks there? Because I thought when we bought it, it had sort of the zoning required, but you mentioned there may be some concerns.

There was another facility that the city was looking to purchase prior to this that had the same zoning. However, the city of Miami had some very stringent regulations that we would have to do to keep our garbage trucks parked there. We had to build retention pits and just... It's very cumbersome and we don't have this facility. We don't have the footprint in the yard to do all that and still keep our other equipment there that we need to keep.

I just want to piggyback off of it because I can't help it because we're talking about zoning. The property that we purchased is in a D2 high industrial zone, which is the most intense zoning district that exists in the city of Miami. So storage of sanitation trucks is obviously the most intense use. And we're in the most intense district. So while the use may be permitted in the zoning district, It's not granted automatically. You still have to obtain your certificate of use. And for this particular use, there are actually state environmental requirements. And I believe there are state and county types of permits which require all of this environmental remediation. There's a capital upfront cost to being able to obtain the certificate of use, even if the zoning allows it.

Any ideas about what that cost would be? Are there any preliminary estimates on the, I assume you need to build some pits and drainage and wash down?

We have not done that. Okay. I'll add something in because I have previous experience with the city of Miami who has their own trucks and run their own operation. And I was the director of GSA for a period of time over there. And we had a wash pit that we were able to steam clean the garbage trucks and collect and pump out. And Durham shut that operation down because it just does not meet the runoff and the problems that you have as you clean these trucks. What happens with them is that they're out in the rain. The bellies fill up with the water from the runoff of the garbage inside. And then you have to do something with that water. And in the old days, they just dumped that water. No longer can you do that. You have to get that water out, take it to a place that is designed to take that contaminated water It becomes an environmental issue, and it becomes expensive. And Miami's looking at that problem now. It's just not the parking of the truck itself, but it's the accumulation of wastewater and runoff on the sites that has to be addressed.

Gotcha.

And just one more question here. We're trash talking everything here today. The current regular salaries you have, two drivers, two laborers, those individuals who currently are employed in that position, would remain in that position or some position with the city? They would be transitioning to a different position at the city. A different position. Would it be part of the sanitation services budget here?

No. No, then they would go be moved to parks and recreation, streets and sidewalks, utilities. Okay.

Okay, so my question, I guess, I don't know, it doesn't have to be to this in this particular moment, but maybe a budget committee is if, again, and sometimes when we do analysis on one, when we're kind of looking at it like this, which that's what we have to do, then you take the $86,000 savings and you push it over here to this parks or whatever, and you haven't really saved anything. So that's just my concern.

To address that concern, they're going to be transitioning to positions that we are going to need in the near future. So if we keep sanitation, we would have to then add those positions. So it is a true cost savings. Because if I move these employees, then they fill the positions that I plan on hiring in the future.

Can I follow up on something? Because we do pay for part-time labor. We pay people ready.

Yes, we have people ready employees, and those positions will be going away.

Yeah. So our two full-time staff in sanitation will be relocated within Public Works to, you know, there's so many things that they do on a daily basis, right? Yes. But we won't have the people ready expense.

Right.

Correct. What expense?

People Ready is the agency that we work with to supplement the two full-time employees who are actually employed by North Bay Village.

Gotcha.

So we will no longer need to incur those expenses to People Ready.

Okay. And what's the next steps for this, the next step of this process for when decisions will be made? Or I think you mentioned that there's either, you're going to look at the piggybacking methodology of, or putting it out to RFP. Is that going to be a second meeting or?

So the commission, this is a workshop to hear back from residents and to have an informal discussion. We're not going to take any action tonight. Since we've had, I'll say, modest turnout this evening, I think what might be the solution is to put a resolution on the agenda so that people find out that the commission is going to be taking a vote on this. And if they show up, that's great. But that's what I'm thinking. That makes sense. If you have another suggestion and you know we should take a crack at another workshop, I'm all for it.

No, my only concerns as a resident is, as I stated, level of service being the same and then making sure that um cost savings really end up actually being cost savings and if there's a way um when you're in your either piggybacking or negotiation mode this is just a thought for mayor and the commission is um I don't know if this makes sense, but let's say we're keeping the same employees and we're putting them in some place else. If we could at least think about the idea of a – let's say we want to try it out. Sometimes, I don't know, how long are these contracts entered into for, I assume, multiple years?

Generally, a contract of this nature is usually for a five-year term.

Right. And if there's a way to... Maybe if you did the piggyback method or something, it might be easier to think about, well, we're going to do it for a year. I'm just thinking of ways that if there's more concern other than just me, which I'm just one person, but if there is some pushback or concern about it and it's something that does make sense to everybody. stepping into it with a toe as a trial period to see if there are any issues that come up. I'm just putting that out there. It may not be feasible or people may not want to do that because there may be some capital costs, but maybe not. I don't know. I'm not in the business. I'm just proposing it as a way if you're in the middle of beginning negotiations to ease into it because, I don't know, I'm a little concerned about the switch and what may happen. Unintended consequences sometimes arise. But I really appreciate the time. And again, I thank you guys for letting me speak and address my concerns.

Well, we are also concerned with exactly what you're talking about when we make that, if we make that leap.

Yeah.

You have a contract with somebody and then you you see what comes of it. So there has research been done with the Carl Gables people. They had the same concerns when they went to the privatized operation. And so Steve has reached out to the communities and the response there, are the services up to par with what they were having before? And it appears to me, besides the money side, that a lot of what you don't see is that when we have a truck down and we're having to bring people in on Sundays to make the hits and pick up, and the overtime that is paid for that, and you still see the back door pick up and so forth, we don't have the luxury of the redundancy and the spares and that type of stuff that these big outfits have. And so that's another consideration, but... Definitely, the level of service would be the same. And like Steve said, we wanted to keep the trash because we have that equipment. It does not have the same requirements for parking on site because it is not, you know, of the contaminated material that we'd be picking up. And we have the manpower and we could continue with that service. And so a lot of what you are speaking of, we have taken into consideration with where we're headed.

Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pfeffer. Do we have anyone on Zoom, Madam Clerk? We do have Brooke Danmiller.

Okay. Hi, Brooke.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, sir. It sounds like everything that you've discussed so far is great, and you're checking all the boxes that I was concerned with, so that was good to hear. The one gap that we do have in the system is for if residents want to take things to one of the county transfer stations or have bulk waste in a condo building. Or if they have hazardous materials like old cleaning supplies or gas and things like that. If you take it to a county facility, they want to see your ID and they won't let you take it there unless you kind of try to convince them. So City of Coral Gables does annual or actually a couple times a year. hazardous waste events, which they're relatively expensive. North Bay Village is small enough that you could do one a year, one every two years, and probably capture everyone. Or maybe you could piggyback with City of Miami or City of Miami Beach when they do their events to allow North Bay Village residents to take their old gas, paint, clean supplies type stuff, electronics to those type of events. But that is one gap that the City of Coral Gables had in that contract because they do their own waste. They can't use the county facilities unless they borrow somebody's ID. So if we could try to tackle that or address that in some way, that would be great. Thank you.

Interesting. Okay, so I'm understanding very clearly what you're saying about hazardous waste and hazardous waste events. I'm on the Miami Beach listserv for their hazardous waste events. They do them twice a year. I think we can definitely talk to them about piggybacking off of that. We should see if we can do one.

Brooke, you said they're expensive? To host each event, it depends to set the whole thing up because you have to bring all the crews in to handle all the different ways. And it depends on the volume, too. So the first couple times Coral Gables did it, it hadn't ever been done before, so there was a lot of material involved. And it was done quarterly. And I think now they might do it twice a year. I'm not sure, but it's fewer times now. So there's different cost mechanisms, but you know, you're looking in the, the number that sticks in the head was maybe like 30 to 40 grand per event might've been roughly what, and don't quote me on that, but I think that's roughly what they were costing. So that's can add up if you're doing multiple a year.

Yes, it certainly will. Okay. And I just want to follow up on one other thing that you mentioned. You said that residents in multifamily condos don't have a bulk waste option. Did you say that?

Yeah, typically I don't think they're allowed to put bulk waste out on the sidewalk.

Anyone living in a condo can email pwdocuments at mdvillage.com and request a bulk pickup anytime. That information is on our Public Works website. Bulk waste is going to stay with North Bay Village. So it's not a service that we will surrender or cease anytime. If we go to a private hauler, it will be North Bay Village Services. And again, it's really easy to request that pickup.

Yes, you're correct. But I think the condos have a charge versus single family homes are free currently, is my understanding.

I think one of the really helpful things that Steve did, and Steve, really great job, so thorough, really fantastic information presented, and I really appreciate the diligence that you did building by building, auditing what the existing situation is versus what the billing situation is, and I'm really, really grateful to you for that investigation. But I think it's clear that we have some corrections that need to be made, Brooke, so that kind of goes to your point in terms of who is being charged what for what service. Is there anyone else on Zoom right now?

Mayor, I just wanted to touch on a couple of things that he said. In my past life, I did deal with a quarterly household at the former city that I was at and we used a company called Safe Harbors and so that's who we used for that that particular activity and we would do it quarterly that's something that we could look into doing As a matter of fact, the other day we had a conversation amongst the city manager and other staff members about doing an electronics hazardous waste pickup here in the city. And we were planning on doing that probably sometime over the summer. But as far as anybody that lives in North Bay Village that has to get rid of paints or chemicals or anything like that, they can go to the Miami-Dade Hazardous Waste Centers. All you have to do is have a driver's license that shows that you live in Miami-Dade County. They do not turn you away if you have a Miami-Dade County driver's license.

Okay. All right. Perfect. Okay. I don't believe there's anyone else with their hand raised on zoom again, reminding my colleagues on the commission. If you want to chime in with questions or comments, please raise your hand. Let's go back here to the room at the tall. Would anyone else in village hall? Like, to engage with staff, ask questions, provide feedback. Mr. Hello, sir. The vice chair of our Sustainability and Resilience Task Force. Thank you.

Hi, everybody. Dave Dobler, 8000 West Drive, Moda. I actually, in addition, I also sit on the City of Miami Beach Sanitation Committee. So I understand what they're working on right now. And so maybe I can provide a little insight here. Who is the waste hauler for City of Coral Gables? Who are they using? Waste management. Waste management. Okay. I want to compliment whoever negotiated that contract because it is actually cheaper than Miami-Dade County PROS pays for their landfill and recycling. So I think they did a pretty good job negotiating the pricing there. And it looks... I'm not one for really understanding pricing, but I do have the county, what they pay for their... for Parks Recreation's pricing. So... So I have a couple of questions here. The city of Miami Beach is going to be negotiating a new waste hauler agreement. Is there any value to us having conversations with Sanitation and George Ruiz over there about maybe expanding the offerings? They handle it very differently. I don't think they have the backyard pickup, so it might not be apples to apples. But I don't know if there's any value in doing that. But the city of Miami Beach is planning on doing that.

I will give you my gut reaction, given that our community has been so used to for so long, literally knowing their sanitation workers by name and that any transition is going to require. an extraordinary amount of of sensitivity and like proactivity um and and one-on-one retail engagement i personally would prefer to not have to worry about another contracting party um as we move through this particularly with that party being our, our, our municipalities of the East who I love, who I love, but it is a little messy going on over there.

They've been figuring out, trying to figure out for a couple of years.

I think, you know, we, we, we said no to annexation and I think there's a reason for that. So awesome.

Okay. So, um, The waste haulers will often provide ancillary services. So, for example, in City of Miami Beach, the service providers do free roadside trash can emptying, and I think they get some free city services. In City of Miami Beach, each of the waste haulers also contributes $10,000 a year to a sustainability grant program that they give out to communities. And so I'm curious about what we're also going to be expecting of these waste haulers to provide for the village or what's in the contract with city of coral gables because i'm sure they're probably uh that's a really great point our attorneys have reviewed that contract but they're not prepared to comment My little town was in a racial crisis. Our incinerator burned down. We are shipping trash to landfills in Central Florida. It is unsustainable. And so we really need to divert from landfills. And so in this contract, I would also like to be mindful that we should be exploring separate yard waste pickup, construction and debris hauling, composting, electronics waste and hazardous waste because if we can divert that material from the landfill and even some of the recycling trucks, that affects our rates, that affects the frequency, the size of containers that we need. And so instead of looking at like-for-like services, I would love if we were taking a look at our waste more holistically and we're figuring out how we might be able to divert trash away because we're going to be committed to a contract and we're going to be committed to paying for this material. If we successfully divert 30% of our material away, we're still going to be paying most likely that waste hauler. And therefore we won't have that budget in order to allocate to paying for yard waste or composting services. So I would like to just think a little bigger about how we deal and manage with our waste. And so that's just a more esoteric thought that I have on here.

Are you aware of any municipalities offering incentives to restaurant operators for having a composting contract? I don't believe it would be prudent to require any restaurants to have a composting contract because there are all these business impact estimate requirements and everything under state law now. Are you aware of any municipality offering any kind of carrots, if you will?

Not for composting because composting is effectively brand new here in Miami-Dade County, so nobody is caught up to that. I can say that in Miami Beach, they actually waive the tax on recycling by the customer for... for recycling. So the recycling pickup is actually cheaper than landfill. The intent was to encourage recycling. I think a downside of that is that means that people will put their trash in the recycling and so you can have a higher contamination rate on that. What I think, though, the way I look at it is a little bit different. If you're going to pay $100 for your waste to be hauled away, and you're doing that service seven days a week and it's $100 a pickup, if you are diverting 40% of your waste to composting, you actually need less landfill pickup. And so if we think about this more holistically today... then composting doesn't have to be more expensive than landfill. I don't know if it's cheaper or more expensive than landfill, but if you don't have to pick up as frequently or you don't need as large of a dumpster because you're diverting and sending that waste in a different direction, then your costs are actually neutral. And that's why I think it's so important to be looking at that at this time and thinking more comprehensively about our overall solid waste management thank you for your comments i think i have one more yeah unless you're tired of me no good what's your last one awesome thank you um okay um the vendors will do whatever we ask of them they will charge us for it but it's really critical that we pay very very close attention to the contract If it's not in the contract, they're not going to do it. If we don't require them to label their bins, they won't do it. If we don't put in the contract that they are responsible for dealing with the contamination and inspecting for contamination in the recycling, they are not going to do it. And so if we're looking for something to a different position for our current staff, we could just assign them to doing contamination audits. Or there's other things if we don't quite, if we're just trying to find a good space for them, that's something that they could do. But it's really, really important that we pay very close to the contract.

So that is all. So you're living in Moda and not in a single family home.

Correct.

So our code enforcement people right now, with the limited people that we have on that staff, are doing those inspections on the recycling containers. And when they find items in there that don't belong, there's a label slapped on that and the county does not pick it up. and they have to correct what the problem is in the container. So it's a, more of a stick right now, but hopefully of a carrot that they are going to be able to use the recycling correctly. But we are enforcing it and we're working hand in hand with the county. And the county now is coming up with a system where they're recycling containers that they are going to be able with their trucks to examine those containers before they dump. And so if it's contaminated, it's going to be left, and they will have a notice that will come to them electronically, either through emails or they're doing it, that the county will notify that resident that they have contaminated material. So the county's going a long way to try to – because we all know a lot of what hits that recycling floor – ends up having to go to the landfill because all of it's contaminated, so they don't get the recycling material either. And it's as simple as putting stuff in there in a plastic bag in the county. That automatically goes when it hits the floor. They don't open that, and it goes to the landfill. So at the front end, we're educating people that you're putting bags in there. They're not going to pick it up. So we're doing it now, not to the extent that we would like to do, but we are doing it sporadically. And what's happening is the word is getting out to the residents. that when they talk to each other, hey, if you do this, your candy isn't going to get picked up.

So we are doing that. Yeah, no, that's spectacular. And I appreciate that you are leading on this because this is not something that is currently happening around the county very often. And so- we are doing better, just overall in general. I would like to also see all proper labeling requirements on all of our bins, both landfill and recycling.

I texted with you about this. I really do think that if there were one hauler hauling everything in the village, the uniformity... of the trash cans and the recycling bins and the consistency in the labeling across town would yield significant results as far as just contamination reduction, better habit forming, you know, that kind of thing.

I agree. Thank you.

But yeah, I mean, I do also think that we need to engage in a public education campaign with some creative social media about, you know, giving people the do's and don'ts of recycling. The putting recyclables into a plastic bag is the biggest thing that I see. So, yeah. Thanks, Dave. Thank you. All right. My understanding is Commissioner Acosta has her hand raised. Yes. Commissioner Acosta.

Hello. Good evening, everyone. I'm so sorry I'm not there in person. I'm not feeling well, so I decided to stay home. I don't want to get anyone sick. I appreciate all the information provided tonight. I can tell you, Brooke Denimilla actually is very complimented because he's one of the people that actually negotiated the contract and Carol gave us. So I'm sure he's happy to give feedback on that contract. Having said that, I live in a condominium. I also find myself regularly... with the problem of bulk pickup because people just drop things outside. They're not really interested in paying for it. So it turns into a situation where people just leave things outside and it may remain there a few days. And I'm talking about specifically for the condominiums with the rentals, because as people leave and move out, there'll be mattresses, sofas, all kinds of furniture left outside on the street, specifically on South Treasure Drive and Jewel Avenue. And it's just a terrible look for us. We're about to open a community center, which happens to be right around the most heavily used area by condominiums and rentals. So it's very important that we take that into consideration. The other thing is when we talk about education and social media, I don't believe social media has played a role at all in improving the information and communication. Unfortunately, most people bypass the graphics, they bypass the information. What I would like to see is a sample of what recycling materials are left at City Hall so that when people walk in, they can see this is what recycling should look like in your container. When we have an activity at the Village, that should also be going into any activity that we do. Even if it's a winter fest, whatever it is that we're doing, there should be a section where people walk by. We're talking about in Halloween alone, we have over 300 people showing up to our events. Easter, yes, it might not be the most beautiful thing, but maybe we can figure out a way to do a display where people constantly see this is what recycling looks like and with a QR code that says learn more about it. That's just one aspect of it. And I also agree with uniformity. I think that for us to keep a message clear, having everybody having the same pickup service will make that impact. You know, contract negotiations, of course, are extremely important. I agree that if it's not on the dotted line, It will not be done, and these contracts last a long time, so we have to be very mindful of the white-glove service that our city expects to receive when it comes to trash pickup and the high standards that the current public works department has set for us. It's something that we need to be very mindful to not just meet, but hopefully exceed the current standards that we have set very proudly with our workers. They already are busy men. They're proud of their work. They're doing a lot of work already. And I'm very happy to know that we will continue to keep them in service for us. But my input comes in from my experience as a condo owner and for what I've seen specifically in those areas in Treasure Island, and I'm sure Harbor Island experiences some of that. So I hope that we take that into consideration and definitely take into account not just the bulk pickup, but hazardous materials and information to people on how to get rid of, for example, when you paint your apartment, your house, you can't trash your paint cans as long as the paint is completely dry, for example, not wet paint. So all of these little things that we can probably do to help even more our costs. And I know, Madam Mayor, you're a big proponent of us getting better recycling, and I support you 100%. I'm right there with you on that. It's the same goal I have. I explained to people I visited the recycling facility in Paper Oak Pines from Waste Management. And I saw firsthand how they handle our trash, and it was very impressive. Information like this is great to distribute, but I think a visual example, which is kind of like what I saw at the facility, they had a little section where they show you all these plastics, little things like not mixing metals with plastic that they cannot recycle. Your shampoo bottle, the bottle can be recycled, but not the cap where you have plastic. the metal components inside. That needs to be trashed. So little things like this, maybe a little sampling of what people can or cannot recycle at City Hall and at every event that we are part of should probably help a little more. So that's my input, and I appreciate your time, and I'm very thankful that you're there for us tonight as the face of Northside Village. And the same thing with Commissioner Treboni, who's here. We definitely value your time, and we value our community's time. And Even though people didn't necessarily show up too much presence tonight, I know that this recording will be a great lasting example of the commitment we have, not just for quality of life here, but the quality of the Bay. So I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Commissioner. Did you, Johnny, did my comment, my response to Commissioner Acosta, was that?

No, I'm so sorry. I think I muted you. I'm so sorry. I tried to mute myself, and I think I muted you. My apologies.

All right. So, okay, so my response, Commissioner, was to follow up on your comments You're pointing out that there is a legal dumping, that we have an illegal dumping issue at South Treasure Drive and Jewel, as well as on Harbor Island. And I just was going to ask staff to comment on that. So they're getting ready to do that now.

Anytime that we get a call about illegal dumping, code enforcement gets involved and cites the property owner. Otherwise, if it's unidentifiable as to who the corporate was, then public works picks it up. I do know that it happens. It happens everywhere. But I do not get a tremendous amount of calls for that. But anybody that sees illegal dumping is free to call me. One of the things that has happened before is that some people call in for a special pickup, and they pay for that. So it may not be the normal bulk week, but that person may have already called in to Public Works, arranged for a special pickup, and paid for that, and then we go pick that up.

Okay. Commissioner Trevone, hello.

Madam Mayor, thank you. Speaking for the single-family homeowners in North Bay Island, We have had all our recycling bins marked or there is a sticker attached to it explaining what should go in and not go in. But I don't think that there has been really any other training for the homeowners. And I believe that we're still contaminating the whole lot. I don't think that's a feasible function. I remember one time one of our advisory board members, Nick Quay, wanted to do a display. I believe it was a poop-free North Bay Village event as to what should go into the bins. It might help. I mean, single-family homeowners will receive a water bill either electronically or physically by mail. we have to keep harping at them to recycle properly because we're contaminating the whole lot.

I completely agree with you, Mr. Manager. Am I correct that code enforcement is examining the recycle bins, including on North Bay Island? Yes. Yeah, they're issuing citations and educating people. Right.

But Madam Mayor, the lifting of the lid and just looking in, you're just seeing the top layer. You really can't see what's down at the bottom of the bin. Let's be realistic. And I'm not asking them to get their hands in there either. Don't get me wrong. We have to come up with a better methodology of seeing what is being dumped. But the problem is that the camera is recording once the material the bin is being inverted into the truck, that's too light. You contaminated the truck. So we need to figure out a way of doing it beforehand and not in the process.

Thank you, Commissioner. Did you have any comments on Steve Buckling's presentation?

I am going to re-listen to it. And I have requested from our village clerk to put the handout in my office so I can compare one with the other. So I can speak on behalf of them. But I would also like to speak with some of my neighbors and explain to them what took place tonight. Because I see extremely poor representation both on Zoom and in present.

Yeah. Yeah. So... That's fair. We may need to do a series of like informal gatherings in people's homes or in condo association community rooms, like a listening tour type of thing. So we'll see. Stay tuned as far as what the next steps are going to be. We can either, you know, go super soft and talk about this in living rooms for the next three months or we can put it on the agenda for February. I don't think there's any in between. All right, let me, we have a couple of folks here at Village Hall. Thank you for being here. Did any of you all want to ask questions or make comments while we're having the conversation? No. Okay. And is there anyone else on Zoom? Okay. All right. Well, I think Commissioners, what would the two of you prefer to do as far as next steps? Do you think we should put this on an agenda and then get word out that we're going to be voting on it and hope that people attend a commission meeting? Or do we want to try a different round of public engagement to get feedback?

Unfortunately, I don't know how much we're going to accomplish and another round of engagements. I mean, I can tap 10 neighbors and speak with 10 neighbors and tell you what, 10 is 10% of North Bay Island of single family homeowners. I don't think I can tap more than, that to be perfectly honest uh bills don't only come to the residents though there's a lot of rentals more i would say in treasure island that there is in north bay island as far as single family homes which is what i represent basically at the commission uh and the rental people are not the ones that are paying for the waste pickup It is the owners who gets the bill, and they increase it by increasing the rent. So I don't know what we're going to accomplish by knocking on doors and speaking with renters.

Okay. All right. I think it probably makes sense to put this item on the February agenda, and maybe we'll put it on as a discussion item. let's have the Coral Gables contract kind of fleshed out a little bit more. These materials that Steve prepared for this evening should serve as the backup. And I think we'll provide direction to the administration in February. And in the meantime, maybe I'll draft a letter to the residents about this workshop, and we can send out an email summarizing what was discussed, provide links to the documents, and allow people to submit questions online in response to that email. I've been a resident in North Bay Village living in a condominium since 2017. Since the very beginning of my involvement in the community, I have heard over and over and over again how well loved our sanitation services. Our workers, our service, it's something that people really care about a lot. And I hear that. And I think we want to make sure that that level of service continues. We want to maintain. And I think it's one of those things that make people really feel like they live in a community because they know us. they're the garbage guys right and i don't want to lose that sense so we'll continue having this discussion um but we will be making a decision in the next couple of months so if you're here or you're listening or if you're watching the recording of this please you know send a link to your neighbors talk to folks about it um and reach out to us um you know myself and Commissioners Trevone, Acosta, Darrow, and Cook. We all want to hear from you. So with that, I'll adjourn the meeting. Thanks, everyone, for coming, and have a great night.